MMA Fighting - We Got Next | Aspen Ladd Reacts To Corner Criticism, Talks Miesha Tate, More

Episode Date: December 16, 2021

Aspen Ladd wants to fight Miesha Tate next, and that might just happen. Ladd discusses agreeing to fight Tate in her return to the UFC bantamweight division, why the fight would be personal, what she took away from her loss to Norma Dumont, the criticism her head coach and partner Jim West received, changes she's making, Amanda Nunes vs. Julianna Pena's UFC 269 title fight, and more with MMA Fighting's Mike Heck.  Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Welcome to a brand new edition of We Got Next here on MMA Fighting.com. I am Mike Heck. Appreciate you listening to the show. I know it's been quite a bit chaotic here at M.A. Fighting and in my life over the last few weeks from being sick and hitting the road and big events and pay-per-views and UFCs and boxing, it's just been crazy. is I am recording this open from my hotel room in Tampa, Florida,

as I'm here covering the Jake Paul versus Tyrant Woodley 2 fight week, the big boxing match, the rematch coming up on Saturday in Tampa at the MLA Arena, the home of the Tampa Bay Lightning. And I can tell you, man, I'm fascinated by it all. We had the workouts earlier today. You can find some of that footage over on the M.A. Fighting YouTube channel. with Tyrone Woodley, with Jake Paul, Frank Gore, former NFL running back, Darren Williams, former NBA player. Just send me an interesting card. Sold out building, huge gate, lots of people

in that place. It's going to be a massive event. And considering that the original fight fell out like a week ago, and they've put this together so quickly, kudos to everybody involved. I am interested. UFC will have their final events of the year on Saturday. UFC Vegas 45. They're coming off UFC 269, just an incredible event. We'd be talking about it like crazy. Me and Jed talked about it for about 35 minutes on a special roundtable edition of Between the Links. So you could check that out on the podcast network as well and just a lot going on right now, which is why this show is going to be a little bit different.

This is going to be sort of a in case you missed it type of episode because it kind of got buried a little bit, if you asked me, with all the UFC 269 craziness. But I got the chance to catch up. with Aspen Lad last week, and we talked about a number of things. I know it's kind of a cliche term in MMA media when you say a fighter, quote-unquote, breaks their silence. But I know Aspen's done, she didn't interview with MMA junkie. She didn't really dive into a lot of different things outside of saying that she's going to return

to 135 and that she's eyeing a fight with Misha Tate. Our conversation was a little bit different. We talked about everything that you want to know the answers to. Misha taped. Why? Is it personal? The move to 135, I get it. What's the changes that you made? The fight against Norman Dumont. The corner. Jim West. Was it as big of a deal as everybody made it out to be? Her reaction. How does the head coach fight a relationship work? Because many have tried. Most have failed. Some have made it work. And it seems like Aspenlade and Jim West have made it work. And the state of the Bannamweight division and where it could go. I will say this because I don't want to hear any crap. I'm going to warn you ahead of time because the interview did come out before UFC 269. It's just that. It came out before UFC 269.

So we do talk about Giuliana Pena and Amanda Nunes and her prediction of sorts on the fight. But it actually kind of means something more interesting now because Giuliana Pena won the damn title. So what does that mean for her? And what that means for her is, you'll hear what she says. But in essence, it doesn't really impact her or really anybody else right now in that division. She'll explain why a little bit later on. So thank you for listening. We will wrap this all up with my conversation with Aspen Lad.

But again, make sure you follow along all week long, MMAFighting.com for all your coverage of Jake Paul versus Tired Woodley, too, which is going on this Saturday. We'll get a lot of stuff going on. So thank you for. listening. Appreciate you very much. And now we turn it on over to my conversation with UFC fighter. Now heading back to the band of weight division, Aspen Ladd. Let us say hello to Aspen Ladd. It has been quite a year for her. It's been quite a few months for her as well. We last saw her compete in October. She stepped in on short notice for a featherweight fight with Norma Dumont. She was on the wrong end of a unanimous decision. But now the dust has settled somewhat. And

Aspen is kind enough to join us right now, which I greatly appreciate, especially during this holiday season, but things are just crazy. Aspen, how are you? I'm doing great. Thank you for having me on. Absolutely. A lot to discuss with you, Aspen, but the first thing I want to ask you is, how would you describe your 2021 overall? This was the year you were supposed to come back from this nasty injury. You were gearing up to sort of reintroduce yourself to the UFC and the 135 pound division in a lot of ways. And with how everything has played out, how would you describe these last 11 or so months? Bizarre, drawn out, and unexpected. How so?

So obviously it took a while to come back to the knee injury, but then we were booked, and the drawn out part was I booked at the same person for months on end, and that ended up falling through after two fight weeks. And then the short notice 10 day for the 45 is like, yeah, well, I always want to do it. Let's let's go do this anyway. Right. I do want to go back to the fight with Norman Dumont because there are a few

things that stuck out to me. And one, and this is something that I brought up a lot, because here's what a lot of people sometimes forget to realize about professional athletes, fighters in particular. You are these badass people who get locked in a cage and fight other people, right? there's a certain aura that comes along with that. But there's almost like an unfair invincibility that seems to accompany that. And heading into that fight, there is a lot of stuff that you've had to deal with

and overcome from the injury to the rehab. Like you mentioned, having a fight booked with Macy Chesson, her getting injured days before you were set to return, then the rebooking and the weight miss. And a couple weeks later, you're booked in this entirely new fight at a new weight class. Then you make the walk, you put your feet on the octagon. on floor for the first time in almost two years in a main event spot.

How much weight emotionally, how much of a toll had this year taken on you and how much of that impact the actual fight itself? You never know with that kind of stuff and anything that I say will sound like an excuse and it's not with the fight, honestly. And I think maybe for me it was, I don't know, but what it was like it was, I over,

thought everything and underperformed. Like, I never, I wasn't in the moment. And it was, I haven't been that way in years. And I think it probably was the time away. I was overthinking everything. But I'm glad I got in there and was able to do it. And as far as the emotions dealing with everything, like, we all do.

Every fighter coming back from an injury does, I think. But who knows? at what point in the fight did you realize like this isn't working like i am overthinking things like i don't feel like myself when did you realize that i started feeling quite a bit better towards the fourth round like it's like all right i'm i'm in a fight we're here let's kind of do this it was almost like a waking up like i didn't feel present and then it's like okay but by the time that i started feeling better and started feeling more like myself is like it's too late of course you've seen it i'm sure there was a lot of chatter about the cornering uh of your head coach

also partner jim west he took a beating on social media for it everybody was talking about it everybody was asked about it in sports people are coached they respond to things in a certain way like when my high school football coach told me that you know if i missed a tackle he would fire me up in front of the entire team said that i sucked and but that worked for me like i responded to it other players may not have responded the same way You were obviously there. You were in the corner. Did you feel like all the criticism was blown out of proportion?

Yes. I've heard far worse. And I wasn't performing. I wasn't computing as I should have been at that point. But that's something where it's an individual thing. And not only that, I think the reason people attach to that so much is honestly, if I was a dude,

they wouldn't have cared. And if there wasn't the other relationship there, they wouldn't have cared. And then they got a lot of undue attention. And no, I don't think there's anything wrong with it. In a weird way, and you may have seen this as well, that fight ignited like a whole different conversation in the M.A. community.

Like you and Jim have had a working in personal relationship for quite some time now. But as you're probably aware, you and Jim are like a unicorn. Like a lot of times that doesn't work out. But the whole situation for good or for bad, it has brought up that talk of conversation. Like I said, you and Jim seem to be, the exception to the rule. How do you make it work, if you don't mind me asking?

And why do you think it doesn't work out in most other cases? I think it really depends. And I feel like I've seen other successful kind of like coach athlete relationships, but it's hard to say. And then there's the extremely unsuccessful ones and notoriously so. With us, it's kind of you compartmentalize. Like there's different things. There's training.

And then there's a relationship. and he's better at it than I am. I'm still a chick in many ways, but you kind of got to be able to put it aside when you're in the mode of work when you're in training and then get back to everything else later. It doesn't bleed over, yes, but it's just when you've been together so long

and you've been working through issues like that, like you're kind of used to it. Is it a problem right now and then? Sure, but it's something we're used to working with. relationships or problems matter what, like whether you're fighter, coach, just, you know, secretary and journalist or doctor and lawyer, they're going to have the same, they're going to have similar issues, right? Yeah, I think so, especially when you're in the same sport.

You don't exactly have the same role. So you have different views of what you're doing. And you're going to have to, uh, you're going to have to converse about that and figure it out. It's like, all right, you understand this point of view. Let's talk about it. A lot of people had their opinion. about the cornering. It is what it is. But one fighter in particular that seemed to generate the most buzz was Misha Tate. She even used the word abuse when it came to those conversations in the

corner. She has since been asked about those comments. She has stood by them. Why do you think she felt compelled to say that? Do you feel like in a way her heart was in the right place or do you think she crossed the line? No, I think she looks at the world through the lens of her own experiences. and I mean, we all do. I think she had a very, very negative experience with her past relationship. And it became very public for a while. She was with the coach for a very long time. And there's a lot of he said, she said going on there.

And who knows? I don't know. It's kind of like I can't speak on her personal life because I'm not aware, but she chose to speak on mine. So hers was very public and very bad. And whether she did wrong or he did wrong or they probably both did, It's how she views the world now. So she's relating her experiences to what I'm going through, and it's not even in the same realm.

So you thought that was pretty unfair of her? I thought it was unfair and not well considered. But it's not just that she, she tends to comment when other people are a little bit down. And I just, I'm not a fan of that style of being a person. Yeah. And I know that one of the points you try to make was like, you know, she has a show now. She's sort of in the media space at the same time. And she's just kind of unapologetically being her.

So that was kind of like her defense. Like I'm here to tell it like I see it. That's the role that I'm put in. Do you understand where she's coming from or do you still not really buy that? That's not really her place to say anything like that. No, she's trying to get views. It's the world that we live in now. and media, social media, all of it.

Everybody's like, well, look at me. She's trying to do somebody to garner that. And that's totally fine, especially when it's somebody that you want to fight, as long as they back up what they're saying. In terms of the actual fight itself, what was your biggest takeaway coming out of the fight with Norma? You said that. You felt like you were getting going in the championship rounds,

fourth and fifth round, outside of just not getting going the way you wanted to and as soon as you may have wanted to, what else did you take away from that fight? I felt kind of like a, not like a fish out of water because it did, it started to come back. It's like riding a bicycle. It's just I didn't feel like myself. And I made some pretty extreme changes when I got home.

And I've been training very consistently with those changes. And it's something that I've needed to do for a long time. Besides that, I just, there needs to be a better connection. I wasn't listening. I wasn't, as I said, overthinking and underutilizing what I do have. it's time to get back to how I used to fight. What are those changes? What changes have you made?

A couple of very serious coaching changes, actually. Not the gym. Jim's the first thing people are asking. No, that's my head coach. It has been from day one as well as other things. That came later. But as far as, well, my big one is strength and conditioning right now. And I've always, that's always been my ace card,

but it's not just that. It's the speed aspect. I do well at what I do, but I'm not the most, the fastest, and that kind of thing is something we tried to work on in the past, but I really needed to get with a professional that knew what he was doing. And I'm with a game fit sack now, and it's being incredible.

I feel like I'm going to die every time. Like, it's so bad, so bad. And I'm not even in camp yet, but I'm in incredibly good shape. And then I'm actually making some changes with, well, we'll talk about that one later. We'll talk about that one later. What do you mean?

Just like in the conversation or like another day? Another day. All right. Fair enough. And it's interesting you said because a lot was made about your future following that flight with normal. Wondering if you just stick around at 145, go back to 135. I know you recently did an interview saying that you're going to go back to 135.

Was that a decision you made immediately after the fight or even before the fight or did it take a little bit of reflection for you to realize 135 is my home? No, that was even before the fight because I knew and anything short notice, I can do it at 45. And I'd like to have a fight where I have the time to prepare for it at that weight class eventually. But I knew before that fight that we dropped down the beginning of next year for a 35 fight. So you were, you already mind made up. How did you feel at 45? I know you didn't have a ton of time to really prepare for the fight, like for the actual stylistic portion of it. But just going through a fight week at 45, step it on the scale. I'm sure it just was a lot of pun intended weight lifted off your shoulders. But like, did you feel a lot better?

Was it just much easier? Did you enjoy the process at least? Yeah, it was kind of surreal. So it was the first fight week where, you know, there's not that that miserable aspect of it. Like, I felt pretty darn good. So I'd like to see how that feel, knowing the opponent and having a long period of time to get ready for it, like, you know, like eight weeks. I just to go in fully, healthy, not pet the water weight and prepared. Like, ooh. But next one, 35. Because it didn't seem like, even when you two were facing off and doing the

stair downs, it didn't seem like you were undersized for the division at all. And some might make the argument that, especially with the landscape of 145 in the UFC right now, if you stayed there, fought one more time and got a win, you might actually get a shot at the title, like pretty quickly. Did that weigh into your decision at all? it's very possible. Same women's at the top of both heats. And we'll see as far as that goes,

but I'm a very one-fight-at-time kind of person. I tend not to look beyond it. And sure, there is some talk about that kind of thing and a division that it needs more women. But the thing is that the 35ers, there's several of us that are big enough where it'd be healthier to fight at 45. It's just, it's really not where it's happening right now.

there needs to be more women, more activity there. So that's a really matter. Like without a division, it almost doesn't even make sense to do it because there's only what, two or three women in there right now? We just saw Felicia Spencer retire. So that takes a pretty big piece of that puzzle out of there.

So yeah, I mean, it's tough, right? I mean, was it even a thought process for you? Was there even a decision to be made? As far as if I was going to stay there or come back? Yeah. no because i've always considered both um and it would have to be something extreme for me to actually stay at 45 like there needs to be a real division there but yeah because i can do both right now i can't but if i was it exclusively moved to 45 that would cut off all my opportunities at 35

good point and it seems like just based on the past interview that you did a fight with misha is the direction that you think makes the most sense you don't want to cut a promo on her and talk trash that's not your style, but essentially, you know, the way you're looking at is, listen, you had some things to say about me. I don't necessarily agree with what you said. Luckily, we work at a business where we can settle things and get paid for it as well. So it seems to be the direction that makes the most sense for you. Is that that accurate? Oh, absolutely. I mean, you can look at hers. Like, hey, she set up the fight already. If you're going to do that, if you're going to talk trash, if you're going to say things you have. And now she's talking about other people calling her out. Of course they are.

everybody wants to fight you. But when you say very particular things about somebody and you don't feel like backing them up, I don't know what that makes you, but it's definitely not a fighter. Would that be, like I said, you're not a trash talk or anything like that. Would that be kind of a personal fight for you? Would you take it that way at all? Very much so. I wanted to fight her in the past simply because she's a legend coming back. Now I want to fight her if she said something she really shouldn't have. So if it were up to you, if you had your druthers, so to speak, when would you like that fight to happen or any fight at this point to happen? I already have an inkling of when I'll be back.

For her, I've waited a little bit longer. We'll see what she decides to do in the next week or so. Okay. So has that fight been at least discussed at this point? Oh, yeah. It's on her. Okay. So you've been offered and you've agreed to fight her.

I've agreed to fight her in the past and I've agreed to fight her now. We want that fight. It's depending on if she's choosing to take it if she's going to choose not to fight, choose an easier route. We'll see. All right. So we got something, we got something cooking here. Nothing official until pen goes to paper. Nothing is official in this world. But it seems like we're heading in that direction. Yeah. And if she chooses not to, you'll sue me back regardless. But I hope she doesn't. Well, there you go. March, April, spring, first half of 2022.

Oh, yeah. Okay. You see what I'm trying to do here? I know you're not going to tell me. We're planting seeds. The seeds are planted. So I do want to ask you about Saturday night because Juliana Pena is going to challenge Amanda Nunes for the Bannamway title. And the last time you and I spoke, you were pretty vocal about why you weren't overly enthused about the idea of Julianna Pena getting a title shop.

But alas, here we are, year of our Lord, 2021, sizable underdog, as expected. but there are some folks that I've heard from that consider Giuliana Pena a pretty live underdog on Saturday. Perhaps her grinding style might be able to give Nunes some fits. What say you? Do you think Pena can pull this thing off on Saturday? Wouldn't it be remarkable if she did? That changed the whole landscape.

It's very, very hard to bet against Nunes. It really is. Pena has some things that Nunes's last several opponents haven't had. and she is a grinder. It's just Nunes is, she hits like a guy, we'll be honest there.

And also, Pena doesn't seem to be the most physical. She tries to be a grinder, but she's not the overwhelmingly physical type of fighter. And I don't know if her strength will match up to Amanda's. An interesting fight, especially if Payne can get an early takedown and kind of stay on top in that first round.

Could get really interesting. Nobody's done it. And from what I've seen, like, Noons is extremely powerful, but her ground game is not overly complicated. It's not extreme. It's not where she shines. So somebody can take her down and tire her out. We'll see a whole different fight. I know you can't speak for all the other women in the Bannamite Division, but is there a part of you that hopes Juliana Pena wins on Saturday?

I'm sure. Just for the shakeup, just to see something new. Is it likely? but just but you also have to look at it as because that will also delay to the vision forever

so it's not like anybody else is going to get an immediate title shot off of that that's going to be noon he's going to come back in another six months to a year and try to get it back so well it would be exciting sure

it'd be exciting but just because there's been one champ for so long it's like all right let's mix things up a little bit but I wouldn't so if Payne you would win you don't think like it would have like a direct impact on you and your career, like right to second.

Oh, definitely not. I think it'd delay everything by another year. There you go. Can I ask you this because the big news just happened? Does this Jake Paul Tyrone Woodley rematch interest you at all? Is that something you're going to be watching next weekend? The first one didn't interest me. I mean, good on Woodley, he's making bank.

And that's why every fighter and their brother are calling him out. Not him. They're calling out the Paul brothers. And I understand, like, good on you, go do it. But no, as a fighter, when I do watch something, I like to watch a real fight. That doesn't interest me. You'll be watching Derek Lewis fight Chris Dawkes that night

instead of Jake Paul fighting Tyron Woodley. Yeah, no, if I had to choose, it's not even a choice. And then last thing for me, like we talked about at the beginning, 2021 has been a crazy year for you. It's been bizarre, I believe, is the way you described it. If we're having the same conversation in 2022 and things are crazy in this world right now, what do you hope we're talking about? Like, what do you foresee us talking about a year from right now?

Hopefully, my next fight, everything's healthy and life is good. Like, no more 2020, no more 2021. There's no more negative bad things. We'll let's go with that. All right. Fair enough. Well, Aspen, I appreciate it. I always enjoy it when you and I get the chance to speak.

I wish it would happen more. but I understand we got a lot out there today. I appreciate you very much. Looking forward to seeing what this 2022 looks like. I know you've dealt with a whole bunch of things. And hopefully this coming year like you are hoping for as well, it's much smoother and much more active for you. So thank you so much.

Happy holidays, happy New Year to you and yours. Appreciate the time as always. Do enjoy yourself and have a good one. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.