MMA Fighting - We Got Next | Taylor Starling, Erick Gonzalez & Jay Perrin

Episode Date: October 14, 2021

On the fourth episode of We Got Next, MMA Fighting's Mike Heck speaks with BKFC's Taylor Starling (3:08) to get her side of why her BKFC Fight Night Montana fight with Randine Eckholm was scratched hours before the event, Eckholm being "unprofessional" during the two-day stretch, what she said to Eckholm's face on Saturday when the fight was called, if there was any chance the commission would find a way to make it happen, plans to return at the promotion's New York debut in November, and the unfortunate death of Justin Thornton. UFC's newest lightweight Erick Gonzalez (24:42) joins the show as he prepares to make his short notice octagon debut against Jim Miller this Saturday at UFC Vegas 40 and discusses getting the career-altering phone call, getting a veteran in Miller for his first fight, the road he's taken to get to the UFC, and how he sees the fight playing out. New England bantamweight prospect Jay Perrin (43:59) recaps capturing the CES 135-pound title at CES 64 with a second-round submission win over Josh Smith, teammate Merab Dvalishvili defeating Smith's teammate Marlon Moraes the next night at UFC 266, talks holding titles in the top two promotions in the region, what he wants next, his longtime rivalry with Johnny Campbell and if he'll ever give him a rematch, how close he is to getting a call from the UFC, and the importance of mental health in the fight game. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Shop now at IKEA.ca.ca. Black Friday. Ikea. Bring home to life. Hello there, everybody. I'm a little quiet. The family is asleep right now. A little bit of a late recording right before we release. this brand new episode of We Got Next

here on M-Afighting.com I am Mike Heck. Thank you for checking off the show and we do not have a lot of time to waste, my friends. We have three great guests, all different stories, three different points in their careers, but three people, three fighters, on the cusp of some very big things.

So let's just get right into this thing. Let's run down the lineup because you don't want to hear from me. You want to hear from the, fighters. That's why you listen to the show. And you're going to hear from them and you're going to hear at the very end of the show from one of the best regional fighters in New England. One of the best 135 poundsers in the country. His name is Jay Perrin. So he's going to wrap us up this week. He is the current Bannamweight champion for Cage Titans in New England. And recently he became the CES Bannamweight champion. He had a second round submission win at CES 64.

against Josh Smith this past month. And you might remember him from his fight on the contender series a couple years ago. He lost his decision in a fight that pretty much everybody watched it thought he won. But he did not get a contract either way. But he's looking for a chance to kick that door down, so to speak. And he's very, very close to getting that chance. We'll speak to the Joker, Jay Perrin, coming up a little bit later on. And in around 25 minutes, we're going to speak to Eric Gonzalez,

who will make his UFC debut this Saturday on a little over a week's notice and he's going to fight Jim Miller. How about that for a UFC debut? Taking on a man who, by the time he makes the walk, by the time this fight begins on Saturday, he will have the most appearances in UFC history. I really enjoyed this chat.

Well-deserved opportunity for the Ghost Pepper and he will join us coming out next. But first, let us welcome in a fighter who is supposed to compete on Saturday. in the world of bare-knuckle fighting, as we reported hours before, BKFC fight night in Montana was set to begin. We found out that fight was no longer happening.

So let us get the full scoop, the full spectrum, if you will, on everything that happened. Let's get her take on everything happening in the BKFC world, including an unfortunate and very sad topic that has been in the news when it relates to BKFC and some of the matchmaking and other things. So let us kick things off with Taylor Starling. All right, let us say hello once again

to one of the rising stars of Bear Knuckle Fighting Championship. We should be discussing the results of her fight this past Saturday in Montana against Randine Eckholm, which did not happen as we confirmed on Saturday before the card kicked off. And the follow-up to a breakout start

to her BKFC career. We'll have to wait a little while longer. So I wanted to have Killabee on the program to talk all about it. Taylor Starling joins us after a crazy weekend in Billings, Montana. How are you? I'm good. How are you doing? I'm very good.

It's great to have you here. Apologies for everything that has happened to you on Friday and Saturday. So we wrote about what happened on the site. You discussed it on your social media. So for those who aren't aware of what happened that led to this fight being scratched from Saturday's card, What happened? Why did the fight not go down? Well, my opponent weighed eight pounds overweight.

Randine came in on the scale. I was 124, which our fights at 125. I was 124, and she was 133. So if we want to get in the story, Randine, they gave her until 4 p.m. So we weighed in at 2. So they said, we'll give you until 4 p.m. to try to at least cut a couple more pounds, get as close as you can. eight pounds is just too much. The commission's not going to let it happen. She got off to scale and immediately started drinking pediolite and water and like rehydrating. Didn't even make the

attempt to like go and like get on her treadmill or anything. So that was very frustrating. She didn't pass her doctor physical either like a couple hours later. So they wanted to give her a day to like try to get her what's about her and they're like if you can cut that like they really push it. Like they really were trying to make the fight happen as best they could. They were like, we're going to give you a day to kind of make sure you're feeling all right. But you have that time to get lower and like you can see if we can see if we can make it happen. And the next day, she comes and weighs in and weighs in at 141. Oh my gosh. Yeah. So it wasn't like it was just a couple pounds. It was eight pounds and then another eight pounds on top of that. So very, very

very, very frustrating. It was, I was really upset, and I think a lot of people misconstrued my, my upset. It was just the fact that she didn't even try. I think that she didn't want to fight, and she just used that as her out. I think she honestly went and started putting on more weight to make sure that she could make sure that it wasn't happening. Yeah. What's interesting about this whole thing is when, when BKFC announced this matchup, I can't

lie. I was scratching my head a little bit. Like no disrespect to Randine as a fighter. She gets in there and gets in fistfights and puts her health, her life on the line, which is more than I can say for myself, but at least with what her combat sports record says, she's never won a sanctioned fight. She lost all of her amateur MMA fights. She had one fight in BKFC and Britain heart beat her. It just seemed like such an odd matchup to me, considering the success you've been having. And it just seemed kind of weird, like especially with all the conversations happening after your last fight. Like, do you agree with that? Were you surprised that Randine was the opponent that was offered to you? Yeah, I will say this. They definitely, like, gave the offer to a couple people,

and everybody said no. Randine was the only one who, like, said yes. And so for me, I was like, wow, like, so she really thinks she can beat me and she's tough. Like, I had a lot of respect for her because I was like, she's taking this fight and she's going to fight me. And I watched her fight with Britain and I was like, man, she hung four rounds and, you know, I'm two and oh in bare knuckle and like with really hard hitting wins under my belt. But at the same time, like, my MMA record is not that great. My, uh, like there's different things. Like I have just a very like leveled out record and everything else. But bare knuckle, I'm taken by storm. But I thought, man, this girl wants to fight me because she believes she can beat me and she went with Britain and

she's got to be tough. And she's signed. I'm the dotted line. A lot of people said no to it. So I was like super excited. I was like, wow, that was like I'm, I, she thinks she's got what to take. So let's go. Who said no? Do you know?

There's a couple people. A lot of them aren't in bare anduckle. One of them, what was her name, Maya, Maya, some Hawaiian last name. I can't remember her last name. She was in the ultimate, not the ultimate fighter or UFC or something like that. She was supposed to fight for game bread and her fight felt three. for some reason, but she wanted just like a crazy amount of money to fight me. And so yeah, so she wanted like some insane amount of money and they were just like,

we're not going to pay you that much. Like what, like what, no? But when people do that, usually I feel like it's because they don't really want to take the fight, but they will if you pay in the right amount. Right. But that and just a couple others, they were like, man, it's kind of hard to find you like someone right now other than like, because if you, You don't want to put me in all the top.

You don't want to put all of us top women together right off the jump. They're trying to put together a tournament. But they want everyone to have game opponents, like good opponents. And they just couldn't find one. And Randine was the one who said yes. So I know, like from just going off your social media, like you wanted to try to keep this fight obviously. You even, is it true you try to like put on some weight to like try to get the weight

discrepancy down to I guess a clearable number for the commission, but they weren't having it? I weighed 124. on the day of weigh-ins and the next day when we re-weighed, I was 1-36. So within five pounds? Is that too much? The issue was, I think they were more so worried about her health because she, that girl was, I'm trying not to be like such an asshole about it because she could have very well been

like really, really hurting. But to me, like I seen her walking around out in the hallways, but in the second that she would walk in the room, she'd be like, oh. so I think they were more so worried because like you know someone um he just died Justin Thornton just died right but he just passed and so that's a lot of pressure on bare-knuckle to just like someone like that that's acting like they can barely walk up to the scale to put put us in the ring and you know something happened like that's on the commission to be like oh people would say hey you let them fight um and that's that like it

It just she wasn't, we couldn't make, they couldn't bump it up a weight class and be like, because there's no 135 women's division yet. And like just the whole commission, it was just, I don't even really know why exactly they couldn't. Because even when I weighed 136, I was like, why can't it happen? I weigh 136. And it just, so they just told me, they just looked at me and they were like, it's not going to happen.

So just give up at this point on trying. But trust me, I literally went and did everything I possibly could. I was trying to chug gallons of water before I even went and wade in with her eat, just fill my body and try to be as heavy as I possibly could. It just didn't work out. So when you like went to or tried to go to sleep on Friday, were you going to sleep feeling like this fight's definitely not going to happen? Like did you?

No, that's, I think that's what made me the most upset is because I kept getting on this roller coaster of up down, up, down, up down, up down. Like it would be like one second. They would say something where I was like, okay, it's off. Like I'm not even, I don't even need to like feel that pressure. And then one second, someone would say something like, oh, well, we might reweigh and redo physicals and things like that. And then I'd like, okay, well, there's a possibility that's going to happen.

So I couldn't even sleep that night because I was just like, I'm ready to know because I want to fight. I'm ready to know that I'm fighting tomorrow. And once they could set it out loud like I wasn't. I lost it. I was so upset. Yeah. And here's the thing. what people don't always understand because it's professional sports,

there's not a lot of money in the fight game. There just isn't. Like there's like a very small amount of fighters out there in boxing, in MMA, even in BKFC or bare knuckle, timing works out great. There's a whirlwind of good stuff that happens. They become massive stars, must see TV, etc. And others work hard to get to that place, try to break through that wall.

But until that happens, it's a struggle. It's incredible sacrifice. A lot of money spent. to get you ready to travel. Plus, you know, for you in particular, everyday life, you're a mom. You're trying to give your kids the best life possible. So when you don't fight, it's a big hit.

So I'm assuming not fighting on Saturday makes a pretty significant impact on your world. Does it not? Yeah. I definitely ripped Randy a new one whenever they said we weren't fighting. And I just told her, I was like, I have sacrificed my time, my money,

like the money I spent to get my team out there, the money I spent for my outfit, my banner, to make sure my sponsors were well displayed, just everything, time away from my children. I took off work and, like, stopped working the entire fight camp, which I couldn't afford to do. Thankfully, I had sponsors to help me out with stuff, but I took time from work for my job because I was like, I want the best camp, and I can't work right now if I want the best camp, and all of that left my boss is hanging.

Like, it's a small business, so they could have really used my help, but because they really believe in me. They let me take that time to go do what I needed to do. And yeah, so it was very frustrating and just to like, like, I don't know. I just want it so bad. And to see someone not share the same passion or like respect as an athlete, like it just really, really upset me. So it's kind of to talk to, so you said this to Randine like face to face? What is how did she react to that? A lot worse with a lot more F bombs, uh, included. Did she respond at all or did she just kind of take it? No, she just stood there like blank staring at me.

And then David Feldman had to intervene and pull me away from her because I was about to punch her in the face. And I just, I'm never like that. And it was very upsetting to me too to like feel that way because I always love being out there. And this time I was just really amped up and fired up and mad and took it out on a couple people that, you know, like the people in BKFC, I'm like chewing them out. when it's not their fault. And her managers, I was chewing her managers out. And apparently the whole entire time, they said that Randine just lied to them

and told them, like, didn't tell them how much she weighed, didn't tell them she was overweight, and they had asked her and, like, how everything was going. And she just didn't tell anybody until she got on that scale and was 133. And so, yeah, it was very, it was very emotional. I definitely, I definitely yelled out a couple people, but Randy, being number one, And I definitely, I wanted her to know. Like I just, I don't think she had any respect for how I felt or even cared. I think she was just like, whatever, I don't want to fight.

And I'm going to make sure it doesn't happen. So that to me was just, I let her have that. I let her know every feeling I have. So, I mean, you might have yelled at some BKFC peeps, but apparently they weren't too upset because you were on the broadcast. You were in there. Like, was that okay? Like, I know FOMO is probably a super real thing when you're supposed to fight on a card. But did you at least enjoy yourself to the best you were?

ability. That was the best thing about like the silver lining is like I had my squad with me. We had a great time. We enjoyed billings and especially once I knew the fight was off. I just, I got to go to the show and enjoy it. And my my bare knuckle family, like when you fight for barrenuckle, it's like a huge family. So everyone was really happy to see me and they understood why I was upset and why I was frustrated. And I'm so thankful. And I, I apologize to all of them personally and was just like, you know, it wasn't anything of you guys. I was just really upset. And they just happened to be there in the line of fire when I was really upset.

But I got to commentate Jade Wong and Crystal Pitman. It's crazy, but yeah, it was a crazy fight. It was really cool. I got to see Crystal Pitman's eye just, like, shoot blood. And it was just, it was really cool. But I definitely was like, I want to be in there right now. So, I mean, you did your job. You made way you got on the scale.

you were under the 125 pound limit. And I'm not sure how this all works in the bare-knuckle world, but most of the time in MMA, if you make weight, you get show money or half your purse. And then if you win, you get the other half. Did they take care of you? Did you at least get some money for doing your job and making weight like a professional?

Yes, they took very good care of me. They paid me. They made sure that me and my whole entire team were all at the fight's front row. I couldn't have asked her anymore. They really did take care of me. And they were just so awesome and very, like, they communicated with me as much as possible,

and then they dealt with me being an asshole. So, no, I couldn't ask for more. They're amazing. They really felt just as bad because, of course, they wanted me to fight. Like, they wanted, they really, like, they shouldn't have let Randine have an extra day, but they, like, really wanted the fight to happen. They knew that the fans wanted to see it. So they were just trying to, like, really do whatever that they could to make it happen.

and solely it just all fell on to Randine. It was nobody else but Randine. They gave her the best opportunity to make sure that it happened. And she went out of her way to make sure that it did not happen. So crazy. So where do we go from here? Because I believe there's three more events on the calendar that are least official for 2021. There's Wichita that's in a couple of weeks.

And they're in New York, November 6. And then like six days later, they're back in Florida in Miami, which should be a fun card. Any discussions on maybe getting your, on one of those cards? David Seldman asked me if I'm available November 6th, and I said, yes, I am. And so November 6 is looking like when I'm going to come back,

which is great because I've been in a fight camp. It's not too far away. Finish out the month of October and head out to New York and go start somebody. We're going to New York. Nice and cold. Nice cold weather. Just what you want in November, nice and cold.

Right. Montana is beautiful, though. Montana was amazing. Yeah, I mean, I saw like some of the different photos people were taking. It's a pretty cool area. It's small. It's like a up and coming area too. Yes, it was awesome.

You mentioned the tournament, and it appears from all accounts. This is a very, very real thing. It's just a matter of logistics at this point from everybody that I've spoken with. Have you heard any more about it in terms of like when this might start? I assume obviously in 2022, but do you know kind of what they're thinking right now? I would think that they might do something like knucklemania. Like, because I know they're going to bring back knucklemania for February. They're going to make that like an annual thing, which I think is so awesome.

But I think if I think they're waiting to see like how the rest of the year goes. And then I think maybe February they would try to like start to build the tournament or at least have some of the women fighting for the tournament on knucklemania. I don't know. All I know is I'm in. I'm going to be, I'm going to make sure. And that's not because I said it, but that's because I'm going to make sure that I'm in that tournament. I think they're trying to wait to see like what Beck does.

And if Rachel wants to come back and because there's definitely enough women for a tournament, but it's all a matter of like when and who's doing what at what time. And we got to see what, like, you know, you got to let play out a little bit. Yeah, I'm all in for that as everybody else. So you did mention it. So I did want to ask you about this because it is, been a huge talking point when it comes to bare knuckle boxing and combat sports in general, but you mentioned Justin Thornton passed away after the knockout loss to Dylan Kleckler at BKFC20,

and it led to a whole bunch of complications. He was partially paralyzed. He was hospitalized. And then he eventually lost his life when all the complications just kind of came together. And listen, combat sports, MMA, boxing, bare knuckle, no matter what you're talking about, there's always risks. You literally put your lives on the line when you get into the ring or the cage. So as somebody that's in this organization who competes in this sport, when you heard this news, how did you react to it? I felt awful just because, one, I felt bad for him. I felt bad for his family. I felt bad for bare knuckle because I knew that it was going to be, they were going to be the brunt of the conversation.

And it was just sad all around. But at the same time, you know, I look at it this way. Like I know that when I sign up for a fight, someone could hit me and I could be. paralyzed. I could be, I could like just all the risks involved. Um, and a lot of people talk about the mismatch of like the mismatchmaking and things like that. But I always tell people like, well, people sign, sign the contract. And like with Randine, for instance, like she signed the contract and she knew what she was getting into. And it's just really sad. I think that it's a lot of like misconstruity going on.

know if that's a word, but I feel like it could have been anything. It could have been he, the way that he landed on his head. It could have been, I mean, like, the knockout was like definitely a contributing factor, but the way he landed on his head could have just made it that much more worse or being in the hospital and being on a ventilator. Like, people don't realize, like, being on a ventilator, that like is taxing on your body and it just pumps your body full of oxygen and the things that go behind it. So it's just a lot more, much more than saying, like, oh, he got hit with a bare knuckle and that's what did it. It's like there's a lot of different catalyst to it. And like we said, like you signed, like when you're in a combat sport, you know

what you're doing. And I think some people don't realize like, yeah, it is like fans. Like it is dangerous. But we also, we know that and we sign up to do it. And that's like one of the risks that we're willing to take as fighters. So it's just sad all around. And my condolences to his family and everybody. And it just, it really, that one, like, really hit home. Yeah. But as a fighter, like, that didn't scare me away. It made me think, like, you know, yeah, like, we are willing to go in there and put our life on the line for this sport. Yeah, very sad. Obviously, awful news. Send our best to Justin's family and loved ones. It's tough to transition. But I, I did want to end with something a little more positive because I saw a video the other day.

And it was you and Brian Battle, who just won the ultimate fighter at 185 pounds and you had a little sparring battle, no pun intended, with one foot each in one of those big tires. And it was pretty wild. Brian was like, what the hell? Because you would lighten him up. Like, what was that like? Or is this just one of like many occurrences of this sort of energy rivalry? I am always like that to everybody.

So being super aggressive and punching people is how I show my affection. And the more I like you, the harder I'm going to hit you. Yeah, which obviously, like, Brian Battle has so much more power than me. But it's just funny because they all laugh because I'm so cute and so tiny and adorable, but I really am like so aggressive. And I don't care your size. I don't care if you're a man or a woman. Like, I'm going to come and give you the business like when we do stuff like that.

And I'm very competitive. So we were kind of making it like a friendly competition. And it was funny because we said before we sparred, someone was like, okay, tow the line. And Brian said, I am not ready to tow the line. Ah, video's hilarious. I love Brian. He's awesome. And he's always, he's always down to work with me.

And like, he's always like, he always tells me a man, Taylor's a gangster. Like, you guys just don't know. So that was fun to do that. The gym's starting to get a little, a little bit of cred. on the streets now, right? Between you and Brian and we're getting some success. People are talking about you a little bit, right? That's got to be cool.

Even just in the Carolinas in general, I think before, even when I first moved here, like I didn't really know much of the MMA game and any big names or anything coming out of here when I first moved back over this way. So now it's really cool just to see all the talent that's just like grown and evolved and that's coming out of it because I think a lot of people usually just think either like Florida or West Coast. And now we're getting our East Coast, Carolina, going on over here. So it's pretty cool. There you go. Well, Taylor, it's, I feel for you. I know you wanted to get in there and and do some face punching on Saturday. Unfortunately, it didn't work out, but you, you, I think you're

handling it as well as you can. You've been somewhat, you've been professional. You let be, you let be KFC have it. You let some people have it, but listen, it's an emotional role coach of this fight game. And sometimes things are said in the heat of the moment. And that's sort of what happened to you on Saturday, but appears like cooler heads have prevailed. And November 6th looks like the targeted date for the return of the kill of B heading to New York. So Taylor, thank you for the time. I appreciate your candor and talking all about this and all the best to you in this fight camp. And hopefully we find out your opponent sooner rather than later. Yes, have a great day. I can't wait to see you guys back in that ring. I'm ready. And it's going to be killer. It's going to be

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All right, let us say hello to Eric Gonzalez, one of the newest members of the UFC roster. He's going to make his Octagon debut in just a couple of days right now. This Saturday, as a matter of fact, an inset Octagon debut. He's going to take on the man who, when he makes this walk, will do so for the most times in UFC history. What a contrast. What an opportunity. And a well-deserved one for Mr. Ghost Pepper himself, who was kind enough to join us in

Las Vegas on Fight Week. Eric, I appreciate this very much, man. How are you? Hey, man. Life is good. Life is good to put it in simple words. Yeah, bad, man. I mean, you're in Las Vegas.

It's fight week. It's your fight week ahead of a fight with Jim Freakin Miller, a fight that came out of nowhere. What has these last few days been like in the machine that is the UFC? You know, it's been a really cool experience, man. Um, I see before I even got here, they were already asking me what my weight was, uh, how many calories I'm intaking. So then when I got here, they had meals, you know, ready to go according to me. And it gave me a bunch of, uh, you know, nutri, uh, you know, pills so I can, uh, to help me stay nourished. Uh, and I get all my nutrients and vitamins that I'm not getting from the food. And then I went to the PI today. So that was a really cool experience. I got a massage, got some needle treatment, got some little, uh, shark treatment, um, cupping, which this is all. all new to me. I've never done it as an athlete. So that was really cool, man. Got to media and I got to do media as a debuter, which is, from what I hear is very, very rare.

So that was really cool, man. And, you know, I'm just ready, man. I'm ready to take on this Saturday, a full blast. So I remember, and I don't know if you remember this, because you've probably done so many of these interviews over the years, but 2016, I think it was right before your second fight. Maybe we should debut. He was the first second fight with Cambodja Americas. You and I had talked. We were both these young men on the come-up,

trying to make big things happen in this world. And I remember you telling me that when you were 22 or 23 years old, you made a promise to yourself that you were going to be in the UFC before you were 30. And now what? You're, what, three months away right now from your 30th birthday? This happens for you? Like, how did you get this news? Because I'm sure this will be a story.

you that you're going to be telling for the rest of your life. Man, my manager called me. I had just got back from training last Wednesday, so I got a 10-day notice. And he called me and I was sitting on my computer, man, just gaming it, just chilling right after training. And then I answered the phone, I was, you know, because my manager was calling. And he's like, hold on, you know. And then we brought in my other manager who was also like a brother, Marcos Bonilla,

into a conference call. So then he was like, all right, man. So I got really good news. The UFC's knocking. They're here. And it's going to be against a veteran, possibly on his way out. You know, considering his age, you know, he was on a two-loss streak. And then he said his name, Jim Miller, man.

And I just got psyched. I mean, I got psyched already when he told me that UFC was knocking at our door. And, you know, because we've already been waiting for since August, man, because I was on a two-win fight streak. They wanted me to win some fights. So I got a win, got two-fights. It's won both of them. And, yeah, man, there was like, he's like, all right, so I got the good news.

And he's like, the bad news is it's next week, 10-day notice. And I was like, I don't give a shit. Send me the contract. Let's get this ball rolling. As soon as I got off the phone, I hit the fiancé up and let her know what's going on. She was out work so she couldn't get back to her right away, called my coach, and then called my mom. And as soon as I finished all that, went on to my seven-mall-run. And that's how my fight camp started.

You just jumped on a seven mile runner after that. You're like, we got to go. Let's get this thing. I'll get 10 days to get down. Yeah, I'm a big runner, man. That's like actually one of my hobbies. I love running like long distance. So yeah, man, I went straight for a seven mile run.

And then after I got back, coach it hit me up and how already had the game plan set. And I just been nonstop training, not stop training, man, for three days since since I found out. And it's been an insane freaking week. It was turning a, putting a fight camp into eight days is no joke, man. And I definitely had to do a lot, you know, considering that I wasn't in, in fight camp already. You know, I was actually getting ready to go back into fight camp to get a fight in November, December, for a different promotion.

Just because, you know, UFC was taking a little bit longer than expected. And I was actually about to get another job the week before. And my fiance, told me no, just keep doing what you're doing. I'll help you. I'll take care of stuff, whatever you can't take care of. Because, you know, I was financially struggling and, you know, still financially struggling, man. It's not an easy road for fighters or any athlete, in my opinion. So, yeah, man, so luckily to her, she told me no.

She gave me a hard no. And then next week, man, next to you know is UFC's calling, man. And I was just like in disbelieve, man, you know, the stars were lying. Everything happens for a reason. I see that, man. It's, it's, uh, I didn't have to go through the Dana White Contender series. I didn't have to go to the tough house. It was straight up earned.

And, uh, I did it before 30, man, which was absolutely insane for me. And I'm just so happy, dude. It's, uh, like you said, man, this, I said it six years ago, you know, and look at us, really fast forward us now, man. And I'm over here and freaking the UFC residents in and just enjoying every moment. Yeah, it's, it's, it's funny. because I remember that conversation vividly, and I'm like, all right, this guy, he's got something.

He's got his mind right. I'm like, he's not going to be in Cabace for that much longer, probably a couple more wins, then he'll get signed. And I think you ended up there for like another 10 fights after that. And it seemed, because it seemed like you'd been so close a couple of different times, like knocking on that door.

And then like a tough decision loss would happen to guys who were both UFC vets, I believe, at this point. One is in now and one used to be. So now you're talking about like you almost got a job. before you got this call. So, like, was the road, like, were you starting to get a little frustrated? Like, did it feel at times that, like, maybe this goal of getting to the UFC by 30? Did it feel at times that, like, maybe I was a bit too ambitious?

But, like, what has this road been, like, mentally for you, especially, like, the last year or two? Um, you know, uh, considering that I didn't fight all 2020, uh, I was actually hoping to get a call even to the contender series last year for 2020, 2020 and COVID. but it was actually my manager that told me he's like, hey, man, don't worry about the Dana White Tenner series. He's like, you don't need to be in there. He's like, you're too good for that shit. He's like, we're going to get you in.

You're not going to have to go through that shit. And, you know, I just, you know, I kept doing what I was doing, man. I just stayed in the gym. I didn't work at all during 2020. I was actually in the gym the most I've ever been. And to be honest, kind of COVID, it was a weird blessing, you know, to get me able to stay in the gym. My gym did not close to the fighters.

We were all there. We were getting tested monthly. If anybody went out of town, they were getting tested. So, you know, we were as safe as possible. We had no cases ever dropping the, and I picture. We didn't have any case up until this year. And then only a couple guys got it,

but luckily nobody else did. And, but yeah, man, I was honestly, like, I was starting to, like, have that, like, that mindset of like, fuck, man. I'm not going to get this call by the end of the year. You know, this, like, I did have those doubts, man. And I was ready to just like, hey, you know what, fuck it. It's going to happen next year.

So I'm just going to get another fight. Knock this motherfucker out, whoever it is. And then hopefully I get my contract right after that because I'll be on a three-fight win streak. But you know what? God had different plans for me. Stars aligned perfectly. And here we are. What job are you going to take if you don't mind me asking?

My buddy's actually a manager at a really, really nice restaurant over in Manhattan, bartending. And they make about five to six hundred a night. So I was just going to work that over the weekends. because the bartending job I have now I'm not making soap as much because it's not a high-end restaurant, it's not near the beach. So, yeah, that was the job that I was going to,

it was called Esperanza's off Manhattan. That's a great spot. Good for day night if you ever in Manhattan Beach, you know. So, yeah, man, that was the job. And I thought, you know, I had an interview set up. And when the fiance told me no, I was like, hey, yeah, I can't make the interview, bro.

And, you know, like we should say that, because I, you know, I would have to tell them on a different term, you know, probably getting, you know, the process into it to become an employee. I would have been like, hey, sorry, guys, I can't, you know, but which is worse. Man, I mean, that's, like, $5,600 a night, just working weekends. Like, that's pretty crazy, man. And for your fiancee now to just be like, nah, dude, like, forget that money. Who cares?

Just, like, go after this thing. Like, that must mean a lot because it's very hard in this game to find, somebody who actually understands the life of a fighter, right? And you seem to have found that. Yeah, you know, she's definitely my other half, man. She's done so much for me. She's taking into training, taking new stuff that I couldn't make.

She's made it happen. She's on top of working, top of school. She just graduated this year. You know, we just got engaged after my last fight on August 7th. It's been a phenomenal year for both of us. And so I know that she's about the transition because we actually work at the same restaurant. That's right better.

and she's transitioning out of her job to get into an actual career job. So this is super exciting for her. And, you know, she's definitely my backbone. She's kept me on track and did everything possible to make everything around me happen, man. No matter what I needed, she was there. And that's what having a life partner is about. So, you know, I knew that that was going to, this is, our anniversary was actually last weekend. And we had it canceled because I found out about the fight.

We had Disney pans. We had a hotel reserve. I had to cancel everything. She was super bummed, but she understood. And we're just going to, you know, we're going to, I'm going to get this fucking win, get that fight-in-night bonus, make it happen. And then I'm going to go spoil her and take her out to whatever she wants to do for anniversary. And we'll celebrate afterwards, you know. But for now, like I told her, I only have one goal in mine and just getting this win.

And she's all about it. She said, go with you do what you got to do, babe. Get the fucking business done. Get the bag and come back home. she's going to be there for fight night. And a lot of my family and a couple, a few of my friends are going to be there. So I have all the support in the world, man. What anniversary is it?

Like four or five? Five year anniversary. Oh, five year. So you've got to believe this. I mean, you talked about like the Carmen juju of just sort of turning down the job and all this happens. But you have to believe it sort of began after you pop the question, right? Like you propose, she says yes.

And then less than two months later, you're in the freaking UFC. I mean, there has to be something there, right? Like you get on the knee and you finally pop the question around, five years after you guys get together, and now you're in the UFC. What if you proposed like a year earlier? Maybe we would already been there by now. You know, like I said, the stars aligned, the way they were supposed to. God had a plan for me.

I just stayed on track, you know, for a spread for every fight, man. Just stay on track. Just keep training hard, and it's going to happen. You've got to have that goal. You've got to have that. And you've got to make it happen. You've got to make it happen yourself, really, you know? Just fight.

Just take any fight when your fights, and that's it. Eventually, they'll get there. with an opportunity like there are so many fighters i've talked to that you know some got sound like signed outright and then had especially like at the beginning of covid so they had like full fight camps 12 14 week camps and and then i've talked to other fighters like when they get signed in a situation like yours they thrive on it like they get thrown into the fire they're not overthinking anything they're not obsessing about the opponent or anything like that like everything to gain very little to lose do you prefer it this way for the debut or do you wish you had like a full camp to get ready for this one?

You know what? Considering that it's a veteran, I couldn't picture it any of the way, to be honest. I couldn't put myself in a position where if I had time to prepare for a fight. So like at this point, man, it's like you said, man, I don't have time to think about it. I just, I only have time to train. I only have time to put myself in the right mindset. And mentally I've never had the issues with preparing myself for war. And for this fight, man, it's all about just burning the shit out of my lungs.

And I wouldn't want it any other way at this point, you know. And it's like you said, I have everything to gain. I have nothing to lose. I'm fighting a vet with way more experience than myself. And I've known and I've watched him. I don't know him personally, but I've known of him. And I've watched him for years and as a kid in high school. So this is a true, like, it's like a dream come true, man, to be able to fight a guy like this.

And I know by being in a devastating manner, it's going to put me in an insane position with the UFC. So that's what I really want. And I just got to make it happen, man. Everything else is up to me. And you get the main card spot. Like, you couldn't descriptor this better. Which is crazy. I was in the prelims.

And my mom sent me a picture of the main card. And I said I was in it. And I was like, wait, what the hell? So, like, my mom was the one I found out before I did. And then I was like, what the hell is going on? and then yeah so it's it's been like a crazy you know um my it's like my manager said he's like you you deserve it you've earned it this isn't given to you you've earned every single every single thing that's happening right now and i see it man i see it as that way it's like

like you like you know like i thought i was going to be there and then i lost those really good those really too tough fight to a decision loss and i probably wouldn't have been a ufc before that but you know everything happens for a reason i would not be in this position if it didn't take this long, I wouldn't have made the main card as my debut probably. I wouldn't have made out of veteran. So everything works in a mysterious ways, man. So, you know, you just got to enjoy the ride and thrive on every moment. And so, you know, looking at cards like this, especially looking at on paper and seeing the main event and all the stuff.

Like, people have like these negative things. But if you really look like deep into it, we have, there's a lot of like historical things that could happen. Like, obviously the discrepancy between you debut. going against a guy making the walk for the 38th time because crazy. And then you have freaking Loopy Godinez who was about to fight for the second time in the octagon in seven days. I mean, it's just crazy to think about,

right? Like, could you see yourself doing what Loopy Godinez is about to do this week? Like, you go out there, you beat Jim Miller quick, and then you bounce back a week later and fight again. Like,

is that something you would do? Hey, man, if I get the call, and it's another short notice, hey, that's a high pay degree for me. And I'm already in fight shape. If I'm not hurt, then let's fucking do it.

I'm always game for a five, man. If I can get into the fight before the end of the year, man, I'm fucking game. I don't even care. You know, I want to be like the next Donald Serone in the UFC where I just fucking take any fight. I'm always ready to scrap. And I think that that would be very good for me. And I think that Dana White and the UFC would look at that as like, hey, man, this is going to be our go-to guy. And I just got to prove it.

That's it. This is the fight to prove it. Yeah. A lot of exciting things happening in your life. You get this fight with Jim Miller. How do we get this done against a guy that, like you said, you've watched since you were in high school? You know, I've been watching a ton of tape on him, man.

I've watched his last three fights. I have really good corners. Marcos Bonilla. I actually have Marcelo Rojo, which is already in the UFC. He's going to be helping me with my fight camp tomorrow for the weight cuts and he's been helping me as far as game planning. My coach Ian Harris, he's a fucking whiz. He taught me everything that I know.

and maybe the fighter I am today, who has already had a game plan before. As soon as I said his name, he already had a game plan, I'm sure. And I have all the support, like I said, and the way to beat this guy, man, just keep my distance with the guess to the ground, get my ass back up.

If I get on top of him, just beat the shit out of him with elbows. You know, I watched his last fight, and I could tell that he's not, you know he's still uh he's still young in my opinion 38's still like a decent it's not fucking old you know what I mean that's still young in my opinion and uh but I think that he's been through so many fucking wars that his body is just not the same that it was that it was 10 years ago five years ago and uh I think that uh I could tell by his last fight you know he slowed down on the second round he definitely slowed down on the third and I think I'm gonna have an advantage

you know I'm a fucking hungry dog I'm a fucking hungry man and uh you know I want to get paid man I want to make fucking money. And I don't think he'll be able to stop me, man. I don't think he'll be able to deal with my pressure. And I'm not trying to hit the floor, man. I'm just trying to be a fucking have this make this a war. I know he's down for a war because I saw his last fight. He wasn't even really trying to engage in the floor until the other guy did.

And, you know, that's just going to be the game plan, man. Just get in his face and be fucking just bully the shit out of him, man. I have way longer reach. I'm way taller than him. And I know how to fight everywhere. where the fight goes, man, I've been in every single type of danger, just like he has. Whether he's had 38 fights, I've only had 19 fights. But, you know, that experience goes a long way, but I've also been putting every difficult

in type of situation in the MMA possible. So to me, it's not going to be anything new who takes me to get to the ground or gets on top of me or tries to pull a submission. I know how to get out of stuff. And, you know, like a lot of guys think just because, you know, I'm a official bluebelt, you know, I'm underrated. as hell. And that's cool with me, man. You know, MMA Jiu Jitzi is way different and no Gigi Jiu Jituzis way different. So it's going to be surprised a lot of people and then this underdog

card. I love being the other dog. So I love, you know, I love defeating people's mindsets. They're like, oh, he's going to lose. You know, this guy came out of nowhere. They don't even know who I am, blah, blah, blah. But, you know, people will see that and I will gain a lot of fans on Saturday. Eric, I appreciate this, man. I don't want to take up any more of your time ahead of the biggest fight of your career. Congratulations on everything. It's wild to think back five years and we had that first conversation. And now you're in a freaking UFC hotel room getting ready to fight Jim Miller.

So welcome, welcome to the UFC. Well deserved. All the best to you the rest of this week and inside that octagon on Saturday, man. Congrats again. I appreciate you, but thank you much for having me again, Michael. I can't wait to come back, man, and having a interview after this fight when I get the win. And then, you know, it'll be, we could talk about a lot more than just the fight, you know, whatever it is, we'll see what you've been up to.

So I appreciate you, man. It's crazy that, you know, we had an interview six years ago, five years ago, in the beginning, part of my fucking life of my career. So it's awesome, man. Thank you, man. Thank you so much. Getting ready for a game means being ready for anything. Like packing a spare stick.

I like to be prepared. That's why I remember 988, Canada's suicide crisis helpline. It's good to know, just in case. Anyone can call or text for free confidential support from a time. train responder anytime. 988 suicide crisis helpline is funded by the government in Canada. You may have heard of the sex cult nexium

and the famous actress who went to prison for her involvement, Alison Mack. But she's never told her side of the story until now. People assume that I'm like this pervert. My name is Natalie Robamed and in my new podcast I talked to Allison to try to understand how she went from TV actor to cult member. How do you

feel about having been involved in bringing sexual trauma to other people? I don't even know how to answer that question. Allison after Nexium from CBC's Uncover is available now on Spotify. All right, let us say hello to Jay Perrin, one of the top 135 ponderers on the regional scene right now. Not only is he the Cage Titans Banimay champion, but a little over a week ago, he became the CES Bannamweight Champion as well. Second round submission over Josh Smith at CS64.

Two titles and the top two promotions in New England. It's just another day for Jay the Joker, Perrin, who was kind of up to join us right now. How are you, man? I'm doing all right, man. You know, I've been fat and happy for about a week now. I'm bored. So I'm already going back to the gym. There you go. Yeah. So it's been, it's been a minute since you and I've spoken like on this level. Like we talk, you know, on social media from time to time. But I am very happy to get to do this now. But it's been around, I don't know, 10, 11 days since you beat Josh Smith. And a lot went into this. It was your first, first fight in 18 months. You move across the country. We'll get into that in a minute. But how does it all feel a little

over a week later, getting back in there, performing the way that you did and putting another title on the old mantle. It's, you know, it's been weird because, like, you know, I expected it to, like, like, hit me like, oh, my God, I felt like I was going to have the steep A meochich moment. I'm a world champion. I can lose and lose it, and I didn't. You know, I'm really happy, man, but I, I've wanted that belt for a really long time, you know what I mean? And it had a lot of extra to it with the whole Dennis Piva thing. And, you know, there's a lot of other storylines that I went into that, you know what I mean? Like me and you talked about.

So it's a really satisfying win, and I'm happy that I got it with a performance that was better than my previous one. You know, I wasn't satisfied with the Diego Silver performance that I put on, and that was, it had everything to do with my own ego. And I took this one seriously, obviously, with all the things that I did. And it showed, you know what I mean? It showed that all my hard work was actually translating into the gauge. And, you know, on game after all that time away, I would still have, you know what I

me and the spark or be as sharp as I normally am. So it felt good. You know, it feels good, but we all know that's not my goal. You know, that's not where I'm trying to be. The belt is just a means to an end at this point.

It's just a bargaining chip, really is all it is. And, you know, I'll take as many as you need till it's undeniable. But the belts don't matter. It's what I want to get by getting the belts. Right.

Is there like an 18-wheel truck like in your area? Is that your phone going off? Because it's like, I'll hear as, So there's an AC units out here are absolutely. It's awful. Well, let me see if I can.

That's fine. It's fine. I was just, I was just wondering what that was. No, it's, it's, it's the neighbor's AC unit.

I was like, wow, I was like to be able to, to get that sentence out and with a burt, um, going on behind him, I thought it was like a truck driving in the street. Oh,

I just, I just, it's so good. So, I mean, we mentioned, we mentioned the move. You left me,

New England, yet you headed to Las Vegas, which right now is a pretty smart move, considering there's a lot of opportunity right now with all these UFC cards. There's contender series cards, et cetera. But you made the decision to make the move last year in one of the most challenging times of our lifetimes with COVID and the pandemic and everything. What would you say was the straw that broke the camel's back in terms of, I got to get out of here. Vegas seems like the place to go.

Let's really make a run at this thing. So I played with this idea of moving here for like a year. And I kicked it back and forth. I've been to Vegas by that point like three or four times and trained with syndicate. I'd already had like a working relationship with them. So it's not like I didn't know what it was like. And there was a lot of personal stuff that went on in my life that just like, you know, I took a good look around at, you know, where I was and, you know, all the people that I love and support me,

they were just doing things and that I couldn't accept for myself. You know what I mean? And I just took a good look around into my environment. And I said, this isn't for me anymore. And there was nothing that really kept me there. So the straw that broke camera was back. I mean, it was just the, I'm not, I don't want to be inactive. I hate sitting on the shelf.

And the fact that we couldn't get anybody to fight me in New England when I was there. And I was only training three days a week. You know what I mean? And we still couldn't get anybody to fight me out there. It was just, you know, I'm like, I'm 28 years old. You know what I mean? At a certain point, you're either going to do this or you're not. And I just chose, I didn't want to be, you know, the guy that looks back when he's 55 years old and it's full of regret because he didn't make a decision he should have.

So I, that was finally the thought. And I was like, all right, well, we're doing it then. Yeah, you just rip the band-aid off. Get on a plane and get your ass up there. Yep. I was actually, I went like four months ahead of schedule. Because I'm like, I just got to get out of here. And so I got in a plane and I live with my manager now.

Oh, there you go. Oh, you live with, um, you live with, um, you live with, um, you live with, Jason? Oh, with Lance. Okay. Lance. I was like, oh, I was like, you're in the palace with Jason? That's, that's, that's, that's pretty cool. Yeah. The mustacheoed madman, Lance, but yeah. I mean, what is the whole thing been like? Like, you know, obviously John Wood being there as a coach guy, people who train with him just, just love them, just love them. You get a lot of high level fighters in there, a lot of great coaches and teammates. How would you sort of describe, I mean, you already had already been out there a few times, but first week or two walking into. that gym being a part of the team officially? Like, what were the first couple of weeks like being there coming over from Massachusetts? Tough, man.

You know what I mean? I thought that I was better than I was when I got here. And, you know, people that I hadn't even heard of beat to hell out of me. Just beat the hell out of me. And, you know, this place has been such a good measuring stick for who I am and where I am and, like, my skill level. You know what I mean? I get, I get, I get my rob and I've gotten to all.

Joe to come in. And you know what I mean? I've had these measuring sticks throughout my time here. I haven't been here that long. And I mean, and, you know, the, the environment in that place is so, it's almost family oriented. It's very, it's, everybody's very, very close. And it's easy to, everybody's easy to get along with. So I was the outsider maybe for maybe a couple of weeks, and that was because of me, because I'm shy. And, uh, but everybody was so welcoming. You know what I mean? Jojo, Calderwood was one of the first people to really welcome me into the group. And, You know what I mean? I spard with everybody. Everybody was just really cool. So I fit in really, really quickly. And that's, I think that's a big thing as chemistry with the people that you work with. So I think first month was kind of tough because, you know what I mean? I picked up everything, everything I've ever known is over there. And it's just kind of lonely and boring here. But, you know what I mean? They invited me out and made sure that I wasn't, you know what I mean? Like Steven Glansberg sit by himself in the corner. So I mean, everything was. It's great.

You know, from day one, everybody's been wonderful. And it's not just that. It's that I get so many different looks from really high-level people to other roster members, to PFL guys, to Beloit. You know what I mean? Like, I get a host of, and I seek it all out, because it would be foolish of me not to see these people, you know, Apache mix and, you know what I mean? Like, and all the people you see daily, and you're like, you'd be foolish not to

go and try and work with it. So I meet, I picked it up quick because of all of that. Have you been to a, I don't remember exactly when you moved out there, but have you been to the syndicate MMA Christmas party yet? No. I heard that is, that is some time. But I have pictures of John Woods birthday party in my phone. I'm going to keep them forever.

You should. I hope you see, keep those in your back pocket. And coach, you fucked up because I have those. those pictures. I feel like you and Jordan, I feel like you and Jordan Levitt would get along really well. Like do you train with him a lot? I feel like you guys are, are like brothers at a way. Like you, you've a lot of like you're different, but you're very similar in a lot of ways. Like did you notice that too? In certain ways, but not others. Jordan is a, is a special breed. You know what I mean?

You could probably find one more of me, but I don't know if you could ever find enough George. We're in the pajamas all the time. He's an interesting fellow. Anyway, it doesn't matter. But he'll choke you to sleep, so what can you do? Yeah, I would agree with you 100%. One of the, and you mentioned one of the storylines heading into the Smith fight

because you mentioned Marab, you're getting ready for your fight with Marab. And Josh was getting ready at ATT with Marlon as a training partner. And then you both have fights and both are really exciting. And Marlon was just absolutely ridiculous. But in the end, two wins for Syndicate, man. And Marab is just an animal, as we saw on Saturday. I mean, what is it like just getting on the mats with that guy and just seeing how that all translated on television on Saturday and such a crazy fight with Mara Mara's? So I remember when Marab first got into the gym, you know what I mean?

He came in for just, you know, because he trains in a lot of different places, but he would come to spar. And the first time we ever sparred, we went to war. And it was, it was from that moment, he walks in, he'll walk in. He doesn't say anything, mind you. Like, when he spoke on the mic, that's the most I've ever heard him talking, like in a row. Ever. So to hear him speaks that much was shocking. But he'll come in and he'll seek me out.

Like, he just looks for me. And you can feel him in the room. Like, Rob's here. I know it. And if you lock eyes with him, it's over now. You know what I mean? So because we have such good. sparring rounds.

We really go at it. Like he takes me down. I box him up. You know what I mean? Like it's a high pay. It's really good. You know what I mean? Some of the video I have is pretty back and forth.

So he's training with him is exactly like fighting, though. Because like he's, you know what I mean? He might let up on the punches a little. But the pressure, the wrestling, he's not, he's never not in your face the whole time. You know what I mean? And you could hit him with anything you'd like. anything i i mean that wholeheartedly and he's still going to keep coming forward if he'll recover and he'll push back at you so everything that happened in the marlin fight isn't shocking to me at all

it was scary it was scary in the first one my heart palpitated a little bit but as soon as he recovered you know what i mean you know the ground and pound from that guy is ridiculous you know the only thing that i can say is that i didn't let him do that much damage to me during during this squire notes but that's that that that didn't shock me at all but that happened yeah what a crazy fight that was arlin is amazing you know what i mean he's one of the best to ever do it but rob that that is a talk about a comeback because arguably that could have been stopped before he was able you know what i mean he was wobbly and kind of running away they could have stopped that so good for the ref or not i mean for knowing the fighter a little bit let me keep going

that was amazing yeah he's going to have our time fighting fights moving forward because he i mean He's one of the best 35ers in the world. Yeah, he's up there. He's the hell wants to fight him, though. A little tip of the cap to me. Love him, Baravi made me look great. So he's in an interesting spot right now, and you're in an interesting spot right now

because you've won seven out of eight. The one loss is on the contender series, but pretty much anybody who watched that fight thought you won that fight. And you have the two biggest titles in your region. And I know Cage Titans having a big event on November 6, I think that's number 50 for them. Is it safe to assume that that would be a card you would like to be a part of?

You know what, man? Everybody's been asking me this. And it's, you know, I'll, I'll defy. Everybody can get the smoke, dude. I don't care. I don't care what belt I'm defending. You know what I mean? There's going to be mine by the end of it.

I am the best one. You know what I mean? There's no, I've made that clear a bunch of times. You know, the people that I've already got people that, I'm not going to start call out names because I'm people. because people are ridiculous and fraudulent, Mike, is what they are. Okay. You can't just say that and not say names.

I can. I can because they know who they are because they talk. They run their mouth about me online and then they're in my inbox talking about nothing but respect, jam. And I don't want to hear it. That's really, so I just want to put my hands on certain people. I don't really even give a shit who it is, but it would be nice to get my hands on a couple of people from Cage Titans. CES, whoever, doesn't matter. Whatever body I have to stack up to get to the goddamn show.

Then just, you know what I mean? I don't care. I don't care how long it's got to take. Tell me who I have to go kill before Dana goes, all right, let them in. You know what I mean? Or, you know what I mean? Just that's all I care about. I'm not going to whine or bitch complain.

Show me the direction and I am a weapon to be pointed. Point me at somebody until they say, here's a contract. Can we just get the damn Johnny Campbell fight going? Like, is that the name? Yeah, do you know what? Dude, absolutely fucked Johnny Campbell. Chris Curtis, everything.

Oh, Chris. Holy shit. Chris, Chris just came in me. Fuck Johnny Campbell. What's up, Chris? My man's the truth.

He's ready. Where's his shot at? Let's go. Fuck Jody Campbell. That's right. Hight man, 2021. Lift each other up.

Guest appearance from Chris Curtis. Love that guy. I love him. You know what? That's the most positive shit he's ever said to me. Just want to say that. He tells me I suck on a regular basis. Does it surprise me?

He does. But, Anyway, you know what, Johnny Campbell, here's the thing about that is that I said that I was cool with that in August. You know what I mean? So here's what happened with that. Johnny called me out on a bunch of podcasts and said, this needs to get settled. And I saw it. And online, I said, you're right.

Let's fucking figure this out. Finally, for once and for all. And this time, I'm going to finish him because in the first time, I gave him too much respect because I had watched him since I was an amateur. And I had a little bit of nervous jitters. I'll give you exactly. I'm not going to respect him that much the second time around. He called me out, remember? So I said, word, send it.

I talked to Michael Polvere. I said, send the contract. He replied with, oh, well, Belator won't let me fight you because even in a win, they would be upset that I went outside the promotion. When, in fact, we had the screenshots of the emails from Bellator that said, no, we don't have anything lined up for him around. then go ahead he can fight if he wants to so he so he remember that reason that he stated that bellator would get mad at him for going to another promotion so he said word whatever cool even though that we know that's a lie but okay cool he then posted like a month later about agreement where he tried to blur out everything but the words bout agreement but he's dumb so he didn't and

under it it said cage warriors a month later but what happened to belator what happened to about why why couldn't you do it for cage sites? You can do it for cage quarters to fight someone else. So you ducked me is what you did. That's a duck. Sorry, plain and cold. So now why should I, after you did all of that, and then you totally go out of my way to let you do that?

So you can earn it. You can fight one person, and then you can fight me. But you're not just going to step in and be like, I want it. No shot. No shot. Because you had the shot. And then I would totally wholeheartedly for this, because I'm going to finish Johnny Kim.

I'm going to end this debate. If we ever cross paths again, it's over. I promised that. He didn't want it. He wanted to go fight somewhere else, and he hasn't fought since. So I don't know what incentive I have after I said I would fight you. You did all of this lying for a bunch of reasons why you couldn't fight when you totally could. So you chose not to fight me.

And now you're like in my inbox, I would like to challenge you. Go fuck yourself. That's fraudulent. You're fraudulent. That's fucking crazy. That's crazy to me. I just can't respect it. I'm sorry.

You go all up and down me on the internet, and then you fucking get in my inbox and say nothing but respect, champ. You're a fraud, bro. I can't fucking stand here. That's why I don't like him. In that one moment right there is why I can't fuck with that guy. Because he's one way online, and then to his face, he's all shaking hands and nothing but respect and this and that.

But then he'll go on podcasts and call me a bum and all this other shit. Go fuck yourself, bro. You can go earn it. So they can get somebody to fight him. It'll probably be like Penneville and him to fight for whatever, and then I'll fight the winner of that. If you make it that far. I mean, like, you might get snatched up before then.

So is there a part of you that? I can't do that. It's because CES, we have a clause in there that I have to defend. So we did like a two-fight contract. If I win, I have to then defend the next fight. So that's like part of it. So I don't think I can make the November one unless I do the CES one, the next one. whenever my eye is.

Oh, okay, okay. So what I mean? So, like, I would do that, but I don't know how the, you know what I mean, the conflict of that would work. So, okay. So let's just say, let's say,

I mean, because you're on the doorstep, right? Like getting that call. I hope yourself. You know what I mean? I would hope, but. Yeah, I think you're there. I mean,

the whether it's contender series, short-nosed UFC fight, maybe, and we've seen Bellator snatch up prospects like crazy. If those calls come and you go to the UFC and, and all that stuff. Is there going to be like a part of you deep down that wishes you got that Campbell fight one more time?

Like is that going to go? I beat him, dude. I know, I mean, I got nothing to prove there, don't you know what I mean? Like, I got nothing to prove there.

He's the one that talks about me. It's not all the way around. You know what I mean? And he's fucking, here's the thing. It's always after I win that he wants to leach off of this and somehow because he knows that that's going to boost his debts. I don't know.

He's like mid-30s and got over 13 losses. and he thinks that somehow he's getting signed and I don't get it. But, like, again, I beat you 50, 45 and I was, what, 8 and 3? You know what I mean? Back at the time, we're very, I'm very different now. It's a very different person that you're fighting now, and I'm better, much better, even. And so I don't know what part of it. I beat you 50, 45, and I was nervous.

Now I don't like you. You know what I mean? I don't. Like, in a visceral way, I don't like you. So I'm going to put my hands all over you, Doug. You're not good. You're just, you fucking swing wild, and you fight sucked out opponents. That Henry Corralus fight was bullshit

because that guy's not a 35er. He's a 45er and you take it as a big win and then you duck me after that. Go fuck yourself, bro. You know what I? I don't care if he. He used it or not. I'll say it to his face.

I'll fight him in the street. I don't really give a shit. Fuck that guy. I got nothing else to say about Johnny Campbell. I don't care if we ever cross-pass again. The one that needs it back is him. Not me. I already beat you.

So you want to get beat again. Sure. But I already got one up. I don't need to catch up. I've done more than you have in half the time. Go fuck yourself. Love it. You know what?

It's just something just kind of. Sorry. I'm sorry. No, no, no, no, no. No, no, no. No, no, no. More this interview than I wanted, but that shit bothers us the hell out of me. No, that's fine.

It's fine. Listen, we're, we're chatting. We're having a conversation right now. I guess. But one of the things that that just popped into my mind is I remember our last conversation. It was before, I don't know if it was before your last Cage Titans, sometime in 2019, but.

It's a conversation that I reference quite often because you gave me something new to think about when it comes to the sport and the overall mentality of a professional fighter because you spoke openly about depression in and out of the sport. And it's something that you've dealt with over the years. But one thing that like really stood out to me was it really peaks for you from a fight to fight timeframe. Like once the fight is on the books, like it's go time. you're busting your ass you're getting after it fight week then the fight and it's like poof it's gone over and then you have like that now what feeling and it's it's kind of an empty feeling when you feel all of that adrenaline going after you and the fans and all that and like it had been a while since since you've competed it's been 18 months or so did you or have you been experiencing any of

that after the title fight with josh um the now what thing you know what I mean now Now what? Now what I have to do is really where I'm bad. Hey, but you know what? I'm trying to be positive. I've done something that I've really wanted to do for a long time. There's no reason to be sad about it. It's more like, you know, I've been off for a week and I've been fat, and my eyes stitched up so I can't really do anything for a little bit. You know what I mean?

Like I can't really do drilling or contact work right now. So like I'm bored on top of now. it, you know what I mean? So yeah, just some moments are harder than others, you know what I mean? Because I've worked really hard. I don't want to have to work too much harder to get to where I'm going. You know what I mean? I want to get there and stay there.

But you know what I mean? It takes a toll on you. I'm very, very happy about how I looked in the cage after 18 months. I feel like I looked great. I feel like there's obviously things I need to work on, but you know what I mean? That'll always be the case. But I'm trying to take the positives from it. I took another belt.

I'm not even it's not even arguable. I'm the number one bitch. Wait, New England. I don't even think it's arguable anymore. I cemented myself in like a history book for New England. No one's ever done what I've done. So I mean like I, you get depressed with the now what, the emptiness like you talked about. But when you try and ground yourself, like look, man, either way, at the end of my life,

I can look back and say I did this, this, this and this. You know what I mean? And so that keeps me kind of kind of present and not, not super depressed about it. You feel like maybe being in a different place right now, like being with different with other people and your new team and seeing what Marab did. Like it's almost like a different environment than you were in in New England. Like it's is that, do you think that kind of helps with some of the things you've experienced in the past? Oh, absolutely. I'm immersed in what I do.

You know what I mean? And even when I'm not training every day, I'm teaching it. So like it's, you know what I mean? I'm still, I'm in the gym every day. So I'm around like-minded people. I'm around people with similar goals. and work just as hard and, you know, there's less distractions out here. I completely immersed my side.

Wake up, eat, sleep, breathe, martial arts all the time, you know, and it's, it's great for me. It's nice to take a break every once in a while, you know what I mean? Sometimes you get burnt out, but I think the environment has been so, like it's so welcoming and so kind of, you know, friendly and everybody's so giving, at least to me for my own experience, that it's helped a lot. You know what I mean? Usually it's when I'm back home, it's, there's not people that understand, you know what I mean,

where you're at in your career. There's plenty of people that are in the same kind of position I am, you know what I mean, in these types of gyms where they're just right there. You know what I mean? And they don't know what's going to happen with themselves. So you have people to relate to at least a little bit. Back home, there are people that support me,

but they don't do the sport and they're not really involved in it so their opinions don't really hold a lot of weight, if that makes sense. So like they don't understand. So how can you relate to them? So yeah, I would say that the people here and having other people that understand your position is very helpful with stuff like that. And then last thing I wanted to bring up is you mentioned making history and doing something that no other New England Bannamweight has ever done. And you did it on a pretty, it was kind of, it was a pretty special night for CES because one, Dennis Puyva was there. You beat the guy that beat him.

And it was a cool moment for you to shout him out. Same way, same round. which is crazy. And then on top of that, Matt Bassette has a big performance and then he retires right afterwards. An OG in New England, the guy that I, you know, I've been seeing Matt Bassett's name on headlines and on social media and watching him fight for for a long, long time. And to be on the co-main event and win a title on the same card as Matt Bassett's last fight, being a guy with such grace and such a name in New England, like, what was that like for you? Does that, like, that's got to mean something to you, right?

I mean, you know, I was actually talking to Matt about this very thing the other day. I watched Matt since I was an amateur. I mean, the dude's been around forever, forever, dude. And he's been that guy the whole time. You know what I mean? Like, he's been the guy that shit, Matt's a, that's a dog right there. That guy is going to put his hands on you if he can, you know what he's violent. He loves what he does.

You know what I mean? I remember being like 17, 8 years old, 18 years old watching him. out a CES fight and being like, I want to fight like this guy. You know what I mean? He's accurate. His punches are, he's creative. He's got good kicks. He's got good wrestling.

He's got good. Like, I had a, I choke my, I choke Josh out. I sent him to the shadow realm. And somehow Matt gets a reverse triangle. You know what I mean? Like, come on, brother. You're killing me. If there was a bonus, I lost it in that moment.

You know what I mean? That's horses shit. You know, it was a real honor, dude. and Matt's been really cool to me. Like I went down to train with Underdog like twice. And I got to see Matt and we sparred together and we had ourselves, you know, our little back and forth. And I learned a lot from him.

But he's always been somebody that's, you know, it's very supportive of me for whatever reason. You know what I mean? And I'm very grateful for him. And to be able to do all the things you just said with him side by side is a real honor. Because, again, I remember being 17 years old. and not even having an amateur fight yet and watching him, you know, take people's skulls.

So he was always somebody that I looked up to in the local scene especially, and always somebody I wanted to see succeed no matter what kind of like sweet bread and like ribs, you know, somebody that's just some, just a legend around there that, you know, you always want to see when that's just good guys that are super violent and super talented.

And I took a lot of cues from him. I actually took a lot of faint work from Bessette. I actually land a lot of stuff. that he taught me how to use. And just the very brief moments that we got to work together. So I wish Matt literally nothing but the best in retirement. He's earned it. You know what I mean?

If there's anybody that's earned it, it's him. You know, if he ever makes a comeback, I don't think anybody would be surprised to see him just as sharp as he ever did. But hearing him, you know, and his reasons for leaving are very, very admirable. And I think he's had a great career. And I love him like a brother. And to do that on that night was, was one of the great honors of my career.

So when I do come home, that I'm going to come home to visit. I'm going to get a picture with him and frame it. Because that's a real big honor for me. Well said. Well, Jay, I appreciate you coming on here and talking about what's been going on with you and the big win. And listen, I've been saying your name for a while. When is this happening?

Like it's crazy that with all these opportunities, you're in Vegas right now. Like it's coming, man. It's coming. And I think you're approaching it the right way. Just keep going. out there fighting and that phone's going to ring and soon enough you'll be fighting in the apex or fighting at team mobile that'd be great you know if they need a shortening notice replacement you know what

mean i got i already got somebody in mind for a debut so you know if they need you know me need my opinion i'm good so whoever whoever it is so oh oh mr matino please oh chris i'll say chris matino please for a debut that'd be nice that's just a nice little rivalry we've had for a couple years now that I'd just like to settle as well. That's nothing personal at all. It's just business. I just think I can beat him. So that'd be wild. Like you guys fight in the UFC for your first fight or hitting his second? I think it'd be nice. I think it's a good matchup. It's reasonable. You know what I mean? It's not he's unranked. I'm unranked. I'm fresh off a title win. I know he's injured. So I mean, best to recover again. But if that was my ideal fight, I would take that one.

But yep, like you said, whoever, wherever, let's do it. Awesome, man. Great catching up with you as always, we'll do it again, and hopefully we'll be doing it again before your UFC debut or whenever, Elter debut, whenever. So something big's coming your way, man. Thank you, man. Great stuff right there from Jay Perrin as well as Eric Gonzalez and Taylor Starling. Earlier in the program, as you put a bow on another episode of we got next. More fun chats in store next week.

Got a couple in the can already that are ready to be released for your ears next week. but we are working on a man who got Dana White to break some rules and piss some people off in the process on Dana White's Contender Series this past Tuesday. So stay tuned for that. In the meantime, thank you again for checking up the show. And we're going to have you cover this weekend.

We got a double header on Saturday, UFC Vegas 40. We got Bellator 268. So we'll have pre-and-post fight shows, all that good stuff. BTL is back on Thursday. And we're going to have some big news. as it relates to BTL, by the way, in the next week or two.

So get ready for that news. It's going to be a lot of fun on that show to wrap up 2021, but all sorts of great stuff on the network. So make sure you rate, review, and subscribe to the MMA Fighting Podcast channel, wherever you find your favorite shows. But join us next week when we try to answer that question people often ask in the world of mixed martial arts. Who's got next?

Thank you.