MMA Fighting - What the Heck: Episode 24 | Stephen Thompson, Mackenzie Dern, Gerald Meerschaert & More

Episode Date: September 10, 2020

Check out episode 24 of What the Heck as MMA Fighting's Mike Heck speaks with UFC middleweight Gerald Meerschaert (5:23) to discuss his upcoming fight with Khamzat Chimaev Sept. 19. UFC women's bantamweight Julia Avila (22:10) discusses her hectic few weeks since her last appearance on the show that's led to a matchup with Sijara Eubanks this Saturday at UFC Vegas 10. William Knight (33:14) recaps his first-round TKO finish of Cody Brundage at DWCS Season 4: Week 5, and looks ahead to his UFC debut at UFC 253 against Aleksa Camur. UFC strawweight Mackenzie Dern (1:01:30) talks her Sept. 19 matchup with Randa Markos and explains why she changed training camps just a couple of weeks ago in lieu of the matchup. Finally, UFC welterweight Stephen Thompson (1:29:19) gives an update and when he wants to return, talks Nick Diaz's potential return, and sends a message to Leon Edwards.  Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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What the heck? Well, hello there, everybody, and welcome to a brand new edition of What the Heck on MMAFighting.com. I am Mike Heck. Thanks for checking us out this week. Truly appreciate it. As always, per yuge, a lot going on. this crazy sport of ours. And we have a pretty darn good, good show lined up for this week, if you ask me.

Of course, the big news of the week that everyone's been talking about. I've been talking about it countlessly with people. We did quite a bit on Between the Links as well. Nick Diaz looking to return in early 2021. The panel that consisted of Jed Mishu and Sean Ross Sapp, not all that confident that this happens. In fact, they believe it absolutely will not happen. Me being more of the positive presence.

I'm more in the cautiously optimistic category. But if you want to get our thoughts on it, check out BTL and see what everybody had to say. It's actually pretty funny. And it makes a good amount of sense. Pretty much every take on it. But we'll see if it happens. It's great news for everybody. But a lot of combat sports action this week.

We have LFA. BKFC is back this weekend. Eleanor has two events this weekend. on Friday and Saturday from the fight sphere at Mohegan Sun in Uncasville, Connecticut. That will include Phil Davis versus Leotamachita 2 on Friday night in the battle for the vacant Banimoy title on Saturday. Great fight. Probably the best fight of the entire weekend, Wann Archoleta and Patchy Mix and the UFC, of course,

is back with another card on Saturday night as well. Michelle Waterson versus Angela Hill is the main event for that card. I'm telling you, I saw people complaining about the card once Glover Tashira tested positive for COVID-19 and his fight with Tiago Santos was moved till October. But I got to tell you, if you really look up and down this card, this one has the makings to be really exciting. It's one of those, don't sleep on this type of events. I mean, there's some really good fights. It's a co-man event between Kamalworthy and Atman Azatar is awesome.

So this should be a lot of fun. Don't sleep on it. But a lot to get to this week. So let's run down the lineup and get to our first guest. Rounding us off is the NMF slash nicest MFER champion. Stephen Wonderboy Thompson will check in with him, see how he's doing, get his thoughts on an ever-evolving Walterweight Division, Nick Diaz's potential return and much more.

McKenzie Dern is back at action next weekend, September 19th. She'll take on Random Marcos and a big one at 115 pounds. She'll join the show for the first time. a little bit later on. It's been a crazy nine days or so for William Knight. He goes back on the contender series last week, not this past Tuesday night, but the one before, gets in danger against a tough guy and Cody Brundage, which if you follow William Knight's career, this is nothing new to William Knight, but as he's done so many times before, he battles back, finishes the fight, the developmental deal becomes a full-on 205 roster spot, and his Octagon debut is already set,

against Alexa Kamer at UFC 253 on September 26. So we'll check in with The Nightmare to recap the win and preview his Octagon debut. Speaking of wild stretches of time, that can be said for Julia Avila as well. She was on this program a few weeks back. It was an incredible interview talking about her fight with Nica Montanio that was scheduled for September 5th at the time.

It had already been moved once. And as you know by now, like it seemed like a day after that interview actually aired. Montano tests positive for COVID-19. The fight gets moved to October 3rd. And then after that happened, it appeared Montanio wasn't going to be able to obtain a passport to head to Abu Dhabi to fight on October 3rd. And it just kind of turned out that Shajara Eubanks was supposed to fight last weekend against Carol Rosa. She lost her opponent.

It was a bad wake-up for Carol. She was hospitalized. Hope she's doing better. That happened last Thursday after the virtual media day. So now, Abilat versus Eubanks, we'll go down this. Saturday. So a lot of movement, but that's a great fight. I spoke with Avila on Friday for a few minutes. Right after we recorded the previous show, you'll hear that conversation around 20 minutes. But first, if you've been following my career for a long time, even before MMA fighting,

you know that I've been speaking with one Gerald Mearschart for a long time now. Again, another example of an athlete having a weird, wild adventure in our sport. And after everything that has happened with positive COVID tests, fights, falling out with Ed Herman. GM3 is now going to fight Hamzat Shemayev next weekend in Las Vegas. It's the veteran versus the super prospect. So I figured it was the perfect time to have him back on the show. So we're going to kick things off with the one and only Gerald Mearshardt right now on what the heck.

All right. Back of the show is Gerald Mearshard. He's been the talk of the town as of late as on September 19th, a little over a week from right now. He's going to take on Hamzat Shemayev in Las Vegas. Vegas. It's been a wild month to say the least for this man. That's for sure. Gerald, good to see you, man. How are you? Good to see you again, Mike. How you been? I've been all right. I haven't had a crazy stretch of time like you've had, but where are you right now? It doesn't, you know, this is a different kind of a setup. Where are you right now? What are you doing? Yeah, right now I'm in a hotel

room in St. Louis, Missouri. I'm down here with Duke Rufus and working with him and Tyrone Woodley and Dean Thomas. So obviously we're fighting on the same card times and made events. We're all helping each other get ready for September 19th. Nice. So I wake up this morning, Gerald, and I'm getting ready to start my day. You should just kind of lay back and scrolling through stuff like I normally do. And I see you're all over the interweb. You're doing interviews with everybody, doing interviews with the SPN. All the Johnny Complatelyes are coming out to talk to Gerald Mearshard now. Like, what have you made of all this attention over the last five to six days.

I love it. Finally, I get to be in the spotlight a little bit, and, you know, I saw a comment on something I did. It's like, oh, I never heard this guy talk before, and I'm a fan. It's like, well, give me the mic and let me go, and I'll get some more fans. So, I mean, as people know, this kind of all began on August 1st. You're supposed to fight Ed Herman, and then we find it about the positive COVID test hours before this event is about to start.

Then the fight is rebooked with Ed for this Saturday. and he's on his third different opponent now. I'm curious, was it precautionary reasons that led to you not fighting this weekend? Because we've heard stories about, I guess, like lingering positive tests, lasting for weeks, in some cases a month or more. Is that what happened here? That's exactly what happened. I kept coming back with positive tests, and it was one of those things.

I talked to my manager and my coach, and, you know, I had to quarantine for two weeks, first of all. So, you know, I'm still training at home. I got a little home gym, you know, it's not. the same necessarily, but I'm still doing something, right? And for me, I was very fortunate that my symptoms. I had like a stuff he knows for a couple of days. That was it. So that wasn't a big deal. But, you know, after not being in the gym for so long, I was trying to see if maybe we could fight at a later date, but they needed him to fight like very, very soon. And I was like, well, I keep coming back, you know, even before that, I keep coming back with these positive tests.

I don't want to waste my time. I don't want to waste the UFC's time. I don't want to waste at Herman's time. go all the way out there, you know, because at this point, all I knew that was happening is that they were still testing people when they got to the venue. So now we're doing testing before they even fly us out, which is very smart on the UFC's part, you know, see if you can figure it out before you even get there. Because in this case, I was over, you know, all the doctors I talked to that, like, you can go back to normal, doing whatever you want. It's just that I know I can't fight if I have the positive test. So, you know, it would be different before I didn't test positive until like literally I got woke up at 8 a.m. the day of the fight and they were like,

hey, you tested positive last night, run down here, we're going to test you again. We'll have results back in four hours. Hopefully it was a false positive, but ended up not being that way. So here we are. That's craziness. Have you taken other tests since then? Like, are you good to go now? I took a couple tests and got negative pretty much after we had made the decision not to take

the September 12 fight. And I was like, well, of course, right after I'm like, oh, hey, you know, I keep testing positive probably shouldn't do it and then you know the week following i get a couple negative tests it's like well i already said no i'm not going to you know jerk their chain back around forth but luckily they needed a replacement for somebody else and you know i get a little more time to train so i'm not mad about that i mean the fight with that herman got a lot of people excited it was kind of like a a low-key banger that everyone just kind of got fired up about but this is a super interesting situation you're in now because now you're facing a guy in hamzaa shimai if

has guarded all this buzz over the last couple of months after jumping on Fight Island and getting a couple of finishes and like a week and a half. First off, when you and your team were approached about this fight, how surprised were you that Shamiyev was the other name on the contract? Was that surprising to you? Yeah, I never, you know, when I'd seen him and he said he'd go back and forth, you know, just offhandedly, he was like, oh, I'd fight that guy if you know, try to take an eight-five fight, especially with all this team behind his name and everything. But I never thought that it was going to happen, especially this quick. And then, you know, I found, I found out maybe a day before the Internet did.

I think, like, they sort of breaking news about this on, like, Wednesday or Thursday, and I find, I think I found out, like, Tuesday maybe or something like that, signed the contract a couple days after. So, you know, I found out pretty much with you guys. There's, like you said, there's a lot of buzz around him right now because of those two fights. And this doesn't happen all that often in our sport to this extent after only two fights. with Hamza, like, why do you think that is? Like, do you get this appeal, or are you more in the, why is this the thing camp?

I understand why, you know, I've been around long enough and I've seen the direction the sport has gone and like the way the UFC likes to build people up. And it makes sense. He's young. He's undefeated. You know, he had two very quick fights back to back. We looked very dominant. And a lot of, you know, because they were so quick back to back, a lot of people overlook

the opponents they had, right? He had a guy that moved up from lightweight to welter weight that, you know, wasn't a challenge at all. You know, and I don't know, maybe that guy had a bad night. Maybe he's different. But from what we saw on that night, it didn't look like it was, you know, much of a challenge. And then he fought a guy who was an 85er, you know, it looked like he had a tough weight cut. And really his thing is more he likes to stand and bang. So, you know, it's pretty easy work if you're a competent grappler.

And clearly it was. So that being said, you fight fast enough. people overlook those two things, and on top of it, you fight just like a guy who's a champion right now and also undefeated. You know what I mean? In this case, because most times, you know, people want to see guys stand and bang and knock each other outright. Well, you fight exactly like Khabib, and you're also undefeated from the same area. You know, he's doing the, I will smash him same whole schick. Of course they're going to take it and run with it.

You've been in this situation a few times in your career when it comes to fighting guys with a little bit of hype behind them. Like your UFC debut comes to mind because I remember covering that event in Albany and the Joe Jolati story. You know, people were talking about him and you went in there and did your thing. But there's one fight specifically that sticks out to me. And that was before you got in the UFC. 2016, you're getting ready to fight Sidney Wheeler. He's 5 and 0. Everybody's talking about this guy as a young up and coming prospect.

I remember the promotions reaching out to everybody. You got to talk to the Sid Wheeler kid. He's 20 years old. Kids is Savage. He's got to be in the UFC. And then you go out there and you finish him in the first. round and then Brendan Allen finishes him in the second round. And then since he fought you, he's been three and four. And coincidentally enough, his last loss was in 35 seconds to Hamzad

Shemayev and Brave, which is crazy. Like, does this situation feel similar to the Wheeler one, but just like on a bigger scale? A little bit. Yeah. I definitely think Hamza that's going to be tougher for sure, right? Thill Sid had a lot of hype behind him. And not saying he was like bad, obviously he wasn't like a low level local fighter. He had some more. wins at the time, right? But, you know, that next step up is a little bit different. And like I said, we both finished him in the first round. Kamsat finished him in 35 seconds really quick. However, in that fight, Sid came at him and threw his little Florea punches. He didn't like that. You know, he kind of freaked out for a second and then shot in and then obviously

it didn't really matter much because it was over real quick. I came at Sid when I fought him and tried to take his head off. And then when he took me down, I was like, all right, fine, I'll just snap your arm. And, you know, I ended up getting the submission. So it took maybe a little bit longer, but I was the aggressor from bell to bell, whereas Camzette, like, he took a little bit to get going. Well, once he got going, he was fine. So did you take anything away from Sid's performance that maybe you'll be the aggressor in this one as well?

Not really. I mean, that's all that kid does, right? And, you know, him doing that really, just being honest. True, no, you're right. You know, my game plan has nothing to do with that. So I got, again, I'm a pretty well-rounded guy. The only wins I seem to be allowed to have in the UFC or finishes, so I definitely don't want it to go to a decision, right?

But I'm also dangerous everywhere. I've knocked people out. I've submitted them from my back, from being on top, you know, after ground and pound, all kinds of stuff. So, you know, he's got to worry about me more than I got to worry about him as far as he does the same exact thing every fight. He's going to drop to his knee shoot a double leg. And if he doesn't get that, he's going to come up to a body lock.

And then he's going to get you down. he's going to try and lace your legs up with his legs or he's going to try and wrist ride from like a referee's position and hit you until he chokes you. Well, I'm not going to be dumb and go right to my hands and knees and try and stand up the way he wants. I can submit people off my back. I can definitely submit him off my back, so I'm not worried about it.

So he's got to think about, you know, what way is this guy going to try and finish me and how do I navigate that? The other piece of the story that you've talked a lot about over the last several days is the fact that Hermia has a fight with Damien Maya already, on the books after he fight you. Now it's going to take place in November.

You felt disrespect, disrespect about that and understandably so. But on Tuesday night, Dana White is speaking with the media after the contender series, and he was asked about that specifically and said, in essence, it's not disrespect.

You know, it's just that, Dana, I'm willing to roll the dice on a guy with that kind of confidence. He can't prove he can do it if he doesn't get the chance to do it. So did you hear or see those comments and if so, does it make you feel any differently about it?

I saw the question. quote and a little clip with it. So on one hand, you know, you want to be a good promoter. You got this opportunity, right, that you can build this guy up and, you know, in essence, set him on a track to make him a superstar. So why wouldn't you do that? Totally get that from a business perspective. On the other hand, it also kind of sounded like, uh, you ever seen Talladega Nights? It's sort of like Ricky Bobby. Just because you say no disrespect, you can't then say something super disrespectful afterwards. It's like, it's not disrespectful, but I'm definitely going to do something that most people consider disrespectful right after. So a little bit of a double-edged sword

there. This is going to be a 45th professional fight, which is wild to even think about at this point, because I've been following you for a while. The Duran win fight earlier this year, I remember speaking you about that. You're fired up for that one. You wanted to kick his ass because of the trash talk. It's things to say even before he made his UFC debut before the Eric Spicely fight. You were really fired up for that fight. How would you compare this fight with Shamiah to the Duran win matchup with how you feel internally about it? I'm even more fired up for this one, honestly. I mean, you know, and it's strange too because to his credit, Chamaa, like, he hasn't

really been saying nothing. Like, he doesn't talk that much, right? And he's, he's doing what he should do. He's, you know, from a different place. He's got an accent. His whole mystique is don't talk that much, say the same two things over and over, and then people are going to jump on it as long as you keep fighting how you're fighting. for me it's a little bit different but even though he's not like coming at me directly he feels that he can do that and i know deep down he feels it like oh yes i must do stepping stone to get to damien maya and i'm not cool with that so now he wants to go from you to maya to both diaz brothers i don't know if you caught that at all

yeah well I saw that and he was like oh I'll fight both Diazbole blah at this point he's just taking what he's been given and trying to make the most of it so hats off to him for that I mean that wasn't maybe I would have packaged it a little bit differently but you know again all he's got to do is say like two or three things and he'll be okay will I mean will the social media warfare game continue to be part of the buildup on your end to this fight because you've posted some of these funny pictures they're starting to come out a little bit more and more I saw the Thomas, the train photo with his face on it, tilted over.

My kid appreciated that, by the way. But, you know, you did a lot of him for the Duran Winfight. Are we going to see more and more of this leading into next Saturday? Yeah, you know, you might see a couple more. I mean, we'll see what happens. You know, like I said, I've been traveling around a lot, getting ready for this fight. I'll be in Missouri for a little bit, and then I'll head back to home. So if I got some spare time on my hands, you might see a little bit more.

Do you have gambling friends, Gerald? because right now you're in over 4 to 1 underdog in this fight. You have like 38 more fights in this guy and you're a 4 to 1 dog. How crazy is that with all of your experience? Like 4 to 1 underdog that sounds a little misguided here if we're being honest. Yeah. Well, I remember someone was asking me about that and I think last I heard he was minus 5 something and I was minus like 3 or 350.

And I even guessed offhand. I was like minus 6 and plus 4. And then it was like, oh, you're pretty close. And I was like, of course, of course I am. So yeah, anyone that likes betting money on anything, this would be a pretty good bet for you to take right now. There's a lot of upside that people aren't seeing. There you go.

I mean, you've done this long enough to know that you can't look past any date or any opponent, regardless of experience. But have you thought about what a win over Shamiyev could lead to for you? Like, do you feel like this could launch you into a different place in your career? Oh, it would definitely help a lot. A lot of people keep asking me, oh, well, if you win, do you want to fight Maya? And look, as far as I know, Maya is staying at 170. And if there's one thing I do know is that I'm not cutting to 170, first of all.

Second of all, I'm not really thinking about anybody else. I'm thinking about Hamzad Shemayev on September 19th. You know, there's to me nothing after that. Right now, I'm very one-track, singular minded. That's all I'm here to do. So he can think about how many people he's going to run through by the end of the year. I'm just thinking about him. It's just me and him locked in the cage.

How's Tyrant doing right now? He's got a big one ahead of him, lost his last couple fights, about to fight Colby Covington. This is the fight we've been waiting for for years now. It's finally going to happen next Saturday. How's he doing? What's his mindset like right now?

He's looking good, man. I mean, I was with a big part of his camp for the Robbie and Darren Till fights, and he's looking just as good, if not better than he did for both those fights. You know, his conditioning's on point. the hands are moving fast and in high volume. So if anyone's worried about that,

he's, you know, there's a lot of punches being thrown. Like, he's mixing it up really well. He, he's definitely going to put Mr. Covington on his butt a few times.

Before that happens, you have your own business to take care of. How do you take care of this business? How do you derail this train on September 19th, Gerald? I just got to break him mentally. And I know it's not going to be easy. Look, again, undefeated, tough kid.

He thinks he can take on the world. But what? What's going to happen when he runs into somebody that doesn't lay over for him? What's going to happen when what he wants to do is the worst thing to do for him? I'm going to frustrate him. I'm going to make him make mistakes. And then he's going to find himself in a position he's not used to. And he's going to have to either give up, go to sleep, or he's going to get an appendage broken off.

Great stuff there from Gerald Mirchard. I think he's handling this all in stride. And let's be honest, I think he's handling it perfectly. He's embracing this underdog role. he's quite frankly surprised he's this much of an underdog a lot of people and i think our very old jemishu said this on between the links think shamiyev is just going to destroy gerald meershart and i think other people agree with that as well but i wouldn't be so sure about that i mean shemaiah could win i mean mehershart could win too this is this is a great test for both guys and a very important test

for both guys as well because hamsat shemayev already as you guys know by now and you heard it in the conversation. He's already got a fight set with Damia Maya in November. So this is a huge one. There's a lot on the line next Saturday night in Las Vegas. As we move ahead to our next chat, we look ahead to this Saturday in Las Vegas. On Friday, we finished recording the UFC Vegas 9 preview show. And I got to jump on for a few minutes with the Raging Panda, Julia Avila.

Once again, she's back in action taking on Sejara Eubanks. This Saturday night, here it is. All right, so two weeks ago on What the Heck, we had a long in-depth conversation with one Julia Avila, but things have changed quite a bit over the last 24 to 48 hours. So let us be rejoined by The Raging Panda as she has a new fight. She is no longer fighting Nika Montanio on October 3rd, because that changed as well from the last time we spoke. She's now fighting Sejari-U Banks next Saturday, September 12th. What a crazy row.

This has been, Julia. How are you? Yeah, I'm doing great. And it's been crazy, but I'm really looking forward to it. And, yeah, I'm just ready to get in the cage and rage. So when we spoke a couple weeks ago, we discussed this fight with Nica Montania. It was supposed to happen next weekend, I believe, or was it this weekend that was supposed to happen? This weekend, right?

Yeah. So tomorrow, yeah. So it's Friday as we record this. So tomorrow that fight was supposed to happen. Then, like, days later, we found it got pushed to October 3rd. When did you find out that that was going to have? happened that you were not only getting moved date-wise, you're getting moved to like a different part of the world. You're going to Abu Dhabi now. Yeah. So I found out Thursday before we were supposed

last week, last Thursday. And so I ended up, so I found out later in the day and I took the rest of the day off of work. And I was like, you know what? I'm, I'm going to take the weekend to myself. And my husband actually locked up the treadmill. I posted something on my Instagram. Like, there was a lock on the treadmill, and I was like, you know we have two of them. But anyways, so I took a couple days to myself of low to moderate working out. And then I got a call saying, you know, for one reason or another, Niko won't fight on October 3rd. And they're like, hey, you want to fight next weekend? Okay.

I mean, so much for taking a break. great. Wow. This is just so crazy because one of the questions I asked him, like, are you convinced that Nico is going to make it to your next fight? And you're like, eh, if she doesn't, then, you know, we'll just find somebody else. And that seemed to have happened here. But like, how can you describe the feeling right now? I mean, this has been moved three times at this point to different parts of the world. And now you're not fighting here anymore. Now you're moved back up like three or four weeks. Like, how can you describe, like, what has been happening to you here? Because this is wild. Yeah. I mean,

I'm getting pulled a lot of different ways, but I'm very grateful that I have an understanding corner where all of my coaches are very pliable to the situation. The UFC is helping in trying to find an opponent for me. I mean, it's really weird times, so I can't hold that against them. You know, and if someone doesn't want to fight me, I don't want to force them, right? So, I mean, there are silver linings. I did get a new contract. And, you know, I do have a fight now.

So I got to keep positive. That's good. And Sejari, U Banks, obviously, is a very tough opponent. She could have easily said no to this fight after losing a fight and having a training camp. And now she's going to fight you. You've got to be a ton of respect there. Being able to be matched up with Sarge, definitely a different opponent, different style than Nico was. But how excited are you to fight this kind of a style?

It seems like Sarge and you has fireworks written all over it. Yeah, I'm really excited. I know she's very strong. I know she's kind of, she's ready to brawl. Like, she's ready to go wherever the fight dictates. I know she's a black belt in Jiu-Jitsu. She's a Lloyd Irving black belt, and that's nothing to shy away from. So, and I know she, like, she likes to stand up.

And so I think it's going to be a really fun fight for the fans. there's going to be blood and I'm really, really looking forward to that. None of it's going to be mine. I don't know. We'll see. But it'll be fun. I think it's a great fight and it has fight of the night

written all over it. Do you like this matchup better than an eco fight? Yeah. We're both ranked, so it makes sense. I think it's a great opportunity for both of us to showcase what we're capable of doing. I definitely think there's. going to be a finish.

And it's going to be good. It's going to be really exciting. Like I said, really exciting for the fans. Congratulations on the new deal, by the way. So silver linings, we've got a new contract. So that's amazing. I assume you're very happy with how that all worked out and the details of said contract.

Yes, I'm very excited. Like I said, the UFC has been very supportive with me, and they've been helping me out with trying to find opponents. and, you know, the 135 division, there's a lot going on there as far as big moves and big fights coming up. So I just got to be patient. Hopefully I get the right camp for the right fighter. You know, I'm not going to sit and take a short notice fight against a top 10 opponent. That's just not smart on my part.

I will take, you know, that fight in with the appropriate camp. But this is my second short notice fight, and I don't think I've ever fought anyone that I signed a contract for. So, I mean, like I said, strange times, but it'll be good. Yeah, I think I was trying to do the math the other day after the fight got moved to October 3rd. And I think it was nine changes between opponents and dates up to that point with only one year, like just over 13 months of UFC experience. And since then, I think we're in the double digits now. So it's got to be smooth sailing from here, right? Like, it can't get any worse.

It's all, you know, downhill or uphill, however you want to look at it. Whether it does change or whether it doesn't, I mean, I'm still going to keep a smile on my face. I'm still going to beat my opponents. I'm still going to be prepared. I fight my fight. You know, I don't, I'm very confident in my approach to fighting. So I think I'm going to be able to dictate wherever it goes. I know I'm going to be able to dictate wherever it goes.

So I don't know. I'm excited for what the future holds. And I think that after I win this one, I think it's going to prove that I am going to make a run for that title. Is the Nico Montanio thing, has that ship sailed to this point? Can we say that accurately unless like, you know, she starts going on a run here? Like, can you say that at this point that this thing's done at this point? No, yeah, it's done. I was really bummed out.

I was kind of looking forward to seeing her. So I don't try to make this public or anything, but for my opponents, I'm very grateful for every single one of my opponents, and I usually try to give them a gift. I don't do it at the exchange because I don't want to get notoriety for it. But I bought Nico a freaking ukulele. I mean, it's a cheap ukulele, but I bought her ukulele. Now I don't know what to do with it.

I don't play the other way. I mean, I don't know. She blocked me on all social media. What? Why? Well, I mean, you don't know. Did you say, because I don't think you said anything. Like, I looked. I don't think you, like, said anything disparaging.

Where maybe she's just playing an early defense or something? I don't know. Wow. That's kind of surprising. Yeah. So, I mean, it's pretty funny. I mean, I'm not in it for the drama or anything. And I'm up with ukulele, so that's cool.

Maybe Sajara plays the ukulele. I kind of want to make her like a face mask, but I don't want it to be weird, so I don't know. You don't want a secondhand giff or send a gift to Shagra. I understand. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that too. How are the masks going? Are you still staying busy with that? I know you've got like 18 different fight dates to prepare for, so it's probably thrown it off a little bit.

But how's that all going? So I just do one-off ones. I make them, I'm not making them in bulk anymore, but I do make them for people whenever they ask for them. it's so easy to get one. So not many people are asking for any. But I just recently donated, I want to say 30 to tenaciously teal, which is a nonprofit cancer or a patient organization here locally that one of my friends runs. So yeah, I'm still making him here and there. There you go. Did you, oh, by the way, did you get to use that second treadmill while your husband locked up the other one? I'm curious.

I used one of my spin bikes instead. He doesn't watch my interviews, so I made sure to keep it clean and everything. Because the way I got caught was he said, did you use the treadmill? There's sweat stains around it. I don't know. Maybe it was the dogs. There you go. And I see one of the dogs is kind of said, we saw the dog right before he hit record here,

and I think he's just lounging out right now. Let's see. Yeah, he's hanging out. Yeah. Oh, they both are. Wow. What are the names? This one's Rebel. Reble. This one, the little blue one, she's Pirate. Pi. Pirate and Rebel, huh? Where do those, any significance behind those names? Or you just, that's what you fell at the time? He was named after my high school mascot. Nice. And then Pirate, she has a little black patch over her eye, so pie. that makes a lot of sense so when do you head out to Vegas Tuesday Tuesday yeah man this has been a crazy road for you I'm glad you got to fight this seems like the stars

aligned in the right way for you got to fight in kind of a style that that suits your needs better than you've had in your UFC career to this point so I'm looking forward to it I appreciate you give me time and talking about this especially since we spoke two weeks ago for for nearly a half hour about all sorts of topics but your world just continues to change julia I I appreciate it very much. All the best to you in Vegas. And hopefully we're good to go here. I'm knocking on some wood for you.

Yeah, Sarge is reliable. So I'm excited. I know I'm going to see here there. Always such a delight, Julia Obila. I cannot wait for this fight with Chajara, U.Banks. It's one that could certainly steal the show in a pretty loaded card. I'm very excited for that one. But one man looking to steal the show at UFC 253.

And a card that is capped off by two world title fights will be promotional. newcomer-ish. I mean, he did have a developmental deal, but William Knight, what a crazy week it has been for him. Let's check in to recap his big contender series win over Cody Brundage. There you go. And previews, Octagon debut September 26th with Alexa Kama right now on what the heck. All right, what a week it has been for this man, William Knight. He gets another victory, an official full-on UFC roster spot, and already has his Octagon debut

booked at UFC 253 later on this month. William, how are you, man? Crazy week. I'm good. I'm good, man. It really is a crazy week. For sure. I mean, besides crazy, like, how else would you describe this week?

Because it started less than in an auspicious way on the day before the fight with Cody Brundage. You missed weight on your first attempt. You nail it on the second try. Did you know that you were going to miss there? Like, how did you react to that whole situation before you were able to hit the weight there? I already knew I was going to make a weight. It's just that I ran out of time. I'm not.

I'm not. The sauna situation was just really it. Like, I already know I was going to make weight. Like, I was still peeing and everything else. So it was really just me running out of time. I went to sleep and fucked up on a little time because my time difference is a three-hour difference in Connecticut than it is in Las Vegas. So my phone was set a certain way.

And that shit threw me off completely. To catch up to three hours, it was like, oh, damn. I was 207. point five went out there 206. I could have been 205 I could have went to 204 203 that's how much water and I still had left the cut so it's not like I sat there and was oh I can't cut anymore I got it done like people people in this world need to understand I made weight I never missed me I made weight and through a pandemic I made weight with being restricted I made weight being almost 260 pounds again because I had no gym, the foods were empty and shelves in the whole nine,

and I had to eat what I had to do. I made 205, 206, and I'm going to do it again in another three weeks. You took on Cody Brundage, who was getting a lot of buzz over the last year. He comes out very aggressively, which kind of surprised me. He shot, goes for a takedown, has your back, looked close to finishing the fight, but then it was like deja vu of your CES fight with Rocky Edwards. you're able to keep Cody's arms tied up. He was unable to land any more damage.

And in that moment, you looked like you were just, like, chilling at the beach in that spot. Like, how much trouble were you actually in there when he was raining on those shots? So when he was hitting me, I was talking to Herb Dean. I told him I was fine. So me talking to him was a game changer that people understand. Like, if a ref sees you're not responding and you're just flustering,

then, of course, you're going to stop the fight. But you can land 100. shots of me. What are those hundred shots if they're not affected? You see what I'm saying? So as I'm blocking, I'm talking to Herb Dean saying I'm fine, I'm good, I'm good, I'm good, I'm good, I'm talking to him. So after the situation at hand, I'm like, I've been in this position before I can either bridge up or give him my neck or lock his arm down. So I chose to lock his arms down. So that was the idea I hand. So after I did that, I was in that situation already twice, actually. actually Jamil.

I was in that situation with Jamil, and I was in that situation with Rocky Edwards, where the grappling exchanges wasn't to my caliber because they caught me, they caught me, I would say, off guard. They talk a good game about striking, and then it turns into a grappling match. So it's like, oh, okay, I thought we were going to stand up, but they go directly for the shot.

Which was kind of something you expected, too, because you're both in a weird way cut from the same cloth, right? Yeah, like people scream, oh, NCAA champion, Division I this, Olympic hopeful that, blah, blah, blah. You can't count me out because at the end of the day, you see where I come from and what I've done. And it's like, what if I was able to go to these colleges? What if I was able to get the opportunities as you, like you did? You can't count someone out because you had the opportunity and they didn't. You know what I'm saying?

Like, I come from a family that we make do with what we have. You know what I'm saying? we make do what we have. As long as there's a roof over my head and everything else, that's what my grandmother cared about and my aunt and my uncle that was taking care of me. That's what they cared about. So you can't sit here and be like, oh, I was an NCAA wrestler and this, that, and the third. Dude, I wrestled many people in different tournaments from all kinds of levels and I pin them. Like, I can keep up with whoever I want to keep up with. I know for a fact that my wrestling, I could have been in the Olympic.

I could have been on an Olympic team. People keep thinking that, oh, it's easy to talk about. I know the work I put in behind closed doors. I could have been on the Olympic team if I knew what doors to walk through to get there. I could have been in a Division I school if I understood what was going on, scholarships the whole night, but I didn't. I wasn't told these things. My wrestling coach, Mr. Navarro, had brought that to my attention, but it was already

too late. Well, luckily you've chosen a different path, and it's paid off for you because, you know, you're able to thwart his wrestling abilities. And as you're talking to Herb Dean, you're telling him that you're fine. You get back to your feet. He shoots again. And then you start landing those William Knight elbows to set up the beginning of the end of the fight. I mean, going through the adversity and getting the win, this is like the way it should have been, William, for you. I mean, I feel like this was in a strange way, the kind of fight that defines you as a competitor.

Is that accurate? Yeah, it's accurate. Like, I respect you. I respect you. You know why? Because you actually do your research. You've seen I've been in worse positions. You got Terrence fight.

Look at Terrence. I was in some, some, yo, he's about to lose positions. Got out. Jamil, I was in some deep and deadly headlocks with a guy who had almost 60 pounds on me. Because people don't know. I made 205 that day. And I was going up to CS when they told me that I was fighting heavyweight. and your boy, and I still weighed in drinking a little water from there.

Like literally that day, I was 205 that day. And I went against this guy that they brought in with the credentials he had. You know what I'm saying? It's not like I sat here and fought no bums. And then Rocky Edwards, where he comes from, the people he fought and the skill level he has. People got real, I've only been doing this for four years. For 10 years, out of school, I didn't do anything. I didn't do nothing.

I wasn't in the gym. I wasn't lifting weights. I wasn't training. I was just gaining weight and playing video games. And one thing led to a next. And I got introduced to Iron Will Fitness and Thornton's mixed martial art and fitness. And those two head people created such a monster and myself, me. When did you, like, when did you feel like this was the right move for you? Like you talked about how pivotal these coaches were for you. Obviously, you've aligned yourself with some really strong people. Tyson Chartier, you gave him a heart attack on Tuesday night. That's just the kind of guy that he is wearing that backwards hat.

You know, when did you know, like, this is it, man? Like, you have the confidence, especially after not doing something for that long once you got out of school. Like, when did you know? Like, this is it. Like, I found my calling here. Yeah, so me, the life is the life experience that determines a fighter. You got to realize.

Like, people don't realize there's, even you. me and you can sit here across from each other from the cage and clearly I'm going to look like the guy that's going to win, right? For all I know, you've been through something worse than me in life that puts you in a situation where you won't let me win. It just can't. You've been through so much. What's that sense of getting your hands raised? Like, just that confidence to let you know that there's still a chance out there in the world. So that's where I come from.

My years of growing up as a child, those were my hardest fights. Me fighting in the cage is the easiest thing I could do. Like, I train every day for this. I'm in the gym. I call my coach. I'm with Carmen. I'm with Ed. Daily, day in and day out.

Like, people say, oh, it's a job. I actually enjoy this. This is not just a job to me. It's something, this is my getaway. This is my getaway. This is my little chance to sit here. here and actually express, that's the way I'm looking for. I get to express what's been buried inside me for years.

I get to do it through the beautiful art of fighting. That's exactly how it is, exactly that way. So when you see the aggression, when you see the speed, the power, the wittiness to overcome, that's all me. That's my true expression of who I am as a person. So for 10 years, I sat there, just letting myself go and I just said to myself, I need to do something. I'm a competitor.

I miss being doing competition. So I looked into fighting and things because wrestling was the only thing that I could try to look up. I like that sense of being able to control your output, what you're going to do in the outcome. I didn't have to rely on the team. And then one thing led to a next. And I went from being on mats to into a cage.

You've told your story a few times. Like if people Google William Knight and your story, story, they'll be able to find it, but some people are seeing you for the very first time here, or they saw you on Tuesday night for the first time and they want to hear more from you. So what was the breaking point for you? Because you said, like, you put on this way, you let yourself go, and then finally you were just like, all right, I have to do something here. Do you remember, like, the certain breaking point for you?

Yeah, I do, actually. So I was in, it was 2011, actually. It was 2011 when I seen a photo of my, myself from high school. It was in my yearbook, actually. And then I didn't pay no attention to it. In 2015, 2016, when I was helping move, that same photo fell out of the book,

and I'm just sitting there looking at it. And I'm like, dude, look at me on the wrestling team and smiling with my varsity suit on and everything. And I was just a monster. And I'm like, looking at myself like, How did I let myself get to this? Like, I really was smiling and laughing. I was going crazy for a little bit in my head.

Like, that's me. That's me. I'm looking at myself right now. The big difference between being 196 pounds and being 297 pounds, I really sat there and looked at myself and I told myself in the mirror. Like, I looked at myself and said, Nah, you got to change.

It's time to get back to your old self. And then I said, nah, I don't want to be my old self. Let's be better. And I just kept saying that over and over. I'm like, let's get it. Let's be better. Anybody watch the Dragon Ball Z? That goes deep, man.

That goes deep. Trust me. Watch Dragon Ball Z when the first season. Watch the Vegeta song. But like, listen to how Vegeta is and how he is as a character, how we built up and how we made these changes to himself to become better. That's me. That's me. That's why Virgida is such a character that

stands out to me. I have colleagues I have colleagues who are going to be all over that statement, by the way. As soon as you said that, be like, oh, I know exactly what he's talking about. Now I have to go back and do some more research for our next conversation. What was that first day like, man? Like when you said, I'm going to make the change, day one's always the hardest one. You got to get out of bed. And then once you get out of bed, like it seems a little bit easier. Like for me, I hate like running and stuff, but I know I have to do it.

wake up at 6 a.m. and I try to go for a run, but I put my phone across the room, because if the phone's next to me and the alarm goes off, I'll just turn it off and go back to sleep. If I put it across the room, I got to get up and go. What was that first day like for you, like knowing that you were about to embark on this new journey? I literally cold turkey, which I never knew was going to be a big mistake, but I cold turkey. So what happened was, I instantly stopped eating junk food. Like, I got rid of my junk food, all that stuff. I started That same day, I ate a salad from morning until night I was eating a salad. Every time I got hungry, though, it wasn't every two hours or the portion and stuff.

Like, I was eating a salad. Then out of nowhere, I went to the YMCA and put the treadmill on and started running. The worst mistake of my life. My shins were burning. My legs were burning. I felt like fire ants were biting on through my skin. It was the, my lower back started hurting because I'm all. I'm this weight.

My knee started hurting. It was bad the first day. But that first day almost kept me from the second day. So I was real beat. I was like, yo, I don't know what I just did. I'm hurt. I had to go to work. I was limping.

People were asking, what happened to you? Did you have, you had the party? You drunk? I'm like, nah, man. Like, I literally cold turkey. I was eating salad all day yesterday thinking I was cool, drinking water. and I literally started my first workout with a 6.5 run.

Even though I was tired, I'll grab onto the thing and run, run, run. No incline, nothing, because I didn't know the incline would help save your knees and everything else. So that first day was like, holy shit. I was like, nah, I can't do this on my own. And that's when I had to go search for like alternatives. And I found Iron Wheel Fitness. That's amazing.

And, you know, this journey has been been pretty crazy for you. It hasn't taken a long time. And you were in the contender series last year, as everybody knows. And you were already signed to the UFC after that fight. You know, you got a developmental deal. And people don't understand. Like, when you get a developmental deal, like, you are signed to the UFC. But you're just kind of...

They put it out a test pool. Right. Oh, speaking of that, let me tell all my haters something. Oh, God. I just tell you guys something real quick. I never, in life, use the fucking steroids. Sorry for swearing.

I never know steroids. I never, I don't even know about cycling or whatever that shit is. I'm reading these things online. I'm actually learning more from these idiots than I have in anyone. Because I don't use steroids. I never even knew what these things were. The enhancements and stuff, they're like, oh, steroids could be used for recovery.

Like, I'm literally learning from these people. So let me explain something to you guys. One, I never use steroids. My genetics and my family is ridiculous. My dad, my brother, my cousins. My cousins are six foot five and they're big too. Like, think about this. They're six foot five, six to five and a half, six four, six three.

These dudes are no joke. These are my cousins. My brother is six one. He's just like me. So you mean to tell me, me, I'm one of 14 siblings, by the way. I'm one of 14. So think about this. Me and my siblings.

siblings, even my sisters. My sister Chelsea was in, she does gymnastics. She's a monster. You're telling me that. That means all of us are using steroids. Because I'm not the only athlete in my family. I got a sister, I got cousins,

the whole nine. One, two, I never use no steroids or enhancements. I don't believe in that shit. Like, I truly believe in my mind, even when I get sick and stuff, I don't use medicine. I can't and I refuse to use anything that's going to help me get better or help me heal or whatever,

like, medicine and stuff. I don't want to become dependent on anything because when I get hurt and I can't afford it or I can't find something, I don't ever want that feeling like, oh, I need this, I need this. Like, I don't use ibuprofen, Tylenol, none of that stuff, man. I literally don't. And it's crazy because people are really saying, I used to cycle. You could tell by his frame. Listen, world, I was 297 pounds.

297 pounds. I started lifting weights. I tried to build up thinking lifting weights was going to get me to lose weight, but it was actually building my body. That was for the first year. Then Iron Wills taught me calisthenics and cardio and diet, which why I look like this. Do not hate.

on me because I diet and do shit the right way and lose weight and my body looks like this. I am sorry that my body looks like this. I'm telling you, I would choose to look a little out of shape. That way I can probably make 185. But I can't. I can't. Gunning the 205 is it. That's the most healthy state of mind, the healthiest that I can do.

And I'm just going to say, I'm sorry that I look like this. I'm sorry. blame my mother and blame my father. Well said. So you're telling me the night family didn't come down to breakfast, have some bacon and eggs and a couple of shots of steroids, William? I mean, that's what people think. Welcome to the UFC, man.

It's 2020. It's crazy. It is crazy, man. It just sucks that the human world can sit here and watch these people put their life at risk in the cage and then sit here and judge them at the same time from a chair. And they're not even doing shit. Like, it's so funny to me. because it's like I'm looking at the guys making the comments.

I'm like, bro, let me get you in the gym and maybe I can save your life. There's those people and then you got the ones that I've been training for 20 years and you could tell by the veins in his arms that he uses steroids. Bro, because I'm vascular. So I'm vascular. I'm using steroids. You guys crack me up, man. That's crazy.

I see a bunch of different posts. Like you guys, you guys are crazy. Even you saw the chined in and was like 11 months clean with their thumbs up. Like, I've been tested six times in 11 months. Never once have I had the fear of testing. I can give you guys blood and urine every fucking month if I have to. It's not a problem. I'm in here grinding.

If you watch my social media, you will see exactly why I look like. But, hey, it is what it is, man. I just want to get that out there, you know. you're on their radar now that's what happens we now you're in the ufc people have to find something to hate so it's uh it's pretty wild um so we're all watching the ufc vagus nine broadcast on saturday because you knew as soon as you got the finish over cody brundage that you were getting the full-on treatment here and getting into the octagon for your next fight and we're watching the car on saturday and we get this announcement that william night's going to fight

Alexa Kamer at UFC 253 on September 26th. When did this start coming together, William? Like, you just fought on Tuesday. When were you offered the fight, sign the contract, etc.? Bro, I've been wanting to fight that dude since he fought. I know. fight and then he said what he said or I think it was vice versa whichever way but I swear to God the way he was looking in the camera he was looking right at me when he said that every single day I kept

telling my coach when not if when I make it to the UFC once we get this contract it was never if it was once we get this contract I want him as my first fight I am grateful to God like I'm so grateful and just humbled that I got him as my debut fight. He already debuted, but this dude is 6-0. I don't care about no record, because if you can see all the people who are undefeated, I gave him their first loss. I don't care about no wins and loses

because you can have a 10-and-no record, and you could put those 10 fighters, no disrespect. You could put those 10 fighters together, and you'll probably have two-and-a-half decent fighters. like people understand, people stack their record to build that confidence. Already have my confidence. I got my confidence from early stages of life. So when I got him, when my manager hit me up, I didn't, where was it?

I didn't even make it home yet. I didn't even land. Actually, didn't even land. The second I landed, the text came through the phone, call me as soon as possible. And it was like, boom, how did you feel fighting this guy in three weeks? At first I was like, I don't know. I don't feel like fighting in three weeks, man. My elbow's a little sore.

And I just, all that ran through my mind was that little, the weight cut and not being able to eat all the, my foods I like. Food? Number one, people, I know you guys can agree with me here. Food is the devil. Food is the devil. Nobody told food to taste this good. I don't, I don't respect food that tastes good and it's not good for you.

That sucks. But back to what I was thinking, I was like, man, I'm not going to be able to eat my junk food. I'm looking like, yo, I got food I want to eat, things I want to do, family events I want to go to. Then he told me the name. I swear to God, my whole demeanor changed. I was like, yo, I'm ready now.

Let's go now. I'm ready now. I'm ready. Let's go. let's go. Dude, I'm ready right now. I'm in Iron Wheel right now. I'm literally in Iron Will fitness right now. Like, people, people, people, look, I'm in here right now. I'm in the gym now. I just finished doing a crazy session in here, man. I woke up 6 o'clock this morning, came inside of here at this facility, and I came and put in work, man. I'm, I'm ready, bro. Like, y'all, I'm 217 right now. I can make 2'0 5 today.

I'm ready. Right now. That's how happy I am about this fight. And I guarantee you I won't let the people down. What did you think? First fight, I mean, not only do you get the guy you want, but you get to do something that you told me you wanted to do before. You wanted to travel the world and see new places. And now you're going to see freaking Abu Dhabi in your first fight too.

Like, what do you think of all that? Dude, the fact that I'm going to fight island and I'm fighting on the Anasamia Khan is freaking ecstatic, bro. Like, it's ecstatic. Like, I can't explain it. I can't explain it. But is this, imagine you getting off this interview right now, and then your phone goes off, and then you look at it, and it's a PayPal for a million dollars.

That's the feeling I got right now. Wow, I hope I get that feeling. That's the feeling right now. I'm so happy, man. I'm like, what? For what? Who's this generous? Like, you bless me with my, you bless me with my.

You bless me. with my opponent. You bless me with the USC contract. You bless me with the debut and fight island that everyone's talking about. You bless me to be among the savages of savages. And you bless me with the highlight. This is, this card means more to me than what people think. Not only do I make my debut, this day is also the day they crown a new light heavyweight champion. Bro, that's full circle to me. all that's going to do is ignite a flame in me and make me grind even harder which is creating a more dangerous version of me.

So I'm grateful. This card is perfection. Like people say perfection doesn't exist. To me, this is perfection. Yeah, I mean, you get Adisadio versus Costa at the top and then you get Reyes versus Blahovic like you talked about. I know you like to make predictions on your fights, but do you have any predictions for those fights?

Dude, Reyes. is in a confidence on his mind where he feels he's the most elite striker in the world. And I feel that might be a downfall because you got a savage who's more hungry than him. So this guy that's coming in like, you got to realize he didn't get a title shot. This is his title shot. You had a title shot. You fought John Jones. That's a confidence booster.

Don't get me wrong. But people got to understand. You can be a lion and get wiped up by hyena. You can't have that confidence. It's like I'm the king as if you can't be touched because the second you get comfortable, I swear to God, the second you get comfortable in your mind is when you start to become, you start to beat yourself. People don't realize a confidence can be a strength and a weakness.

Do you think Willowicz going to win? I believe he's going to win with a deadly ass knockout, bro. Wow. It's going to be a savage knockout. I haven't been wrong yet. I told people Aldo was going to get knocked out by McGregor in the first 30 seconds of the fight because how his hand was shaking at weigh-ins.

I'm like, he's going to come in with a while right and Con is going to counter him. I'm like, he's a counterfighter. Like, his hand was shaking. I'm like, dude, no, no. They let him get in mind like that. What happens? Boom, seven seconds.

Craziness. Do you have an official prediction this time? because of what's at stake and how much you want this fight? Is there an actual prediction here? The savage in me that I'm going to let out is saying first round, T-K-O-K-O. Like, I'm telling you, it's not going to last five minutes. It's not. I will not allow it.

I won't. I already told my coach, yo, hit me when it's the three-minute warning. Then you're going to get everything you would have thought in 15 minutes and three minutes. Five minutes? That's it. That's all I need. I'm not playing games. This ain't no cockiness.

This is me saying that that's how much I don't like what that kid said. I think his last fight or the contender series, man, just the fact that we put our heart into it. And he just comes in with this cocky-ass confidence. Like, yo, it just rubbed me the wrong way. The way he was looking at camera, everything. It's not I don't dislike him. I just don't like how he went about it.

Fair enough. Which is kind of surprising because I've spoken with him. a couple of times and he's a very respectful guy. So it's interesting. Listen, I love it. I love storylines. It makes things bigger for me. It makes things bigger for the viewer.

Makes things bigger for you, him as well. And I'm looking forward to this fight. Congratulations on everything. Man, what a crazy week. What's that? Yeah, maybe I'm taking a personal, but I'm in that two or five division. You got to. You got a chip on your shoulder.

You can always try to find one of those whenever you can get it. So, William, congrats on everything, man. looking forward to September 26th, all the best of you in training and safe travels to Abu Dhabi, man. A fired up William Knight. It's opening up a little bit more. I like that. Big thanks to him as he prepares to make his UFC debut

against Alexa Kamer in a little over two weeks time in Abu Dhabi. McKenzie Dern is looking to keep her momentum going after a history-making submission win over Hannah Seifers in her last fight on May 30th. She takes on Random Marcos next weekend in Las Vegas. Here's my chat with one of the top prospects at 115 pounds, Mackenzie Dern.

All right, we have McKenzie Dern joining us. She returns to action next Saturday night, September 19, taking on Randam Marcos. McKenzie, how are you? I'm doing great. Thank you, Mike, for having me. Absolutely. The fight is a little over a week away.

As most people know by now, you are a mom as well as a fighter. How have you been, I guess, navigating this crazy time in the world, this pandemic from not only being a professional athlete and a professional fighter, but also from a parent's perspective as well. Yeah, I mean, it's like crazy because this is my third fight since I've had a, since my daughter has been born. So every fight, like, it's crazy that it's like I'm getting more organized, our life and things, but it's like every phase of her life,

It's like new, new, I guess not obstacle, like new obstacles, you know? So now she's walking and running around. So it was good like when she just kind of stays still. Now I'm like training and kind of having to watch her. And now she's doing like some gymnastics and swimming. So the day is a little bit more. Then I'm kind of like missing the days that she just like, you know, kind of slept. And that's it, you know.

So we're just adapting and everything. So it's good, you know, I'm having fun. Definitely. I think this phase is. awesome. She's going to go to my fight. It's the first time she's going to go to my fight since the whole Corona thing happened. But it's crazy, you know, like we want to take her to the playground, but then now I'm like, okay, baby, I don't want to get, you know, I don't want to get tested positive, you know, so I'm kind of like having to hold her back a little bit the last

couple weeks just to make sure the first fight, right, is to not get tested positive for Corona is okay and then focus the weight care and then focus on fighting red. I have a seven-year-old, so it's crazy to go from like baby stage and then just see them slowly evolving to like little people. Like even as babies, I mean, they're little people, but now they're walking and talking, you're conversing with them. It's crazy, right? And now she has her, she's starting to get like the molars, you know, the big feet coming in, you know? So she's like trying to bite all the time. I'm like, ah, you know, it's crazy.

So we saw you compete back in May. You took on Hannah Cipher's and you made. some history with the first leg lock submission in women's UFC history and you were coming off your first career loss, it doesn't get much better than that, does it? Yeah, it definitely was like, I don't think there's a better way to kind of come back from a loss, you know, and like before the fight, Dana, he was in there, like kind of, like not before the fight, but the day before and after the way ends, he's kind of giving a pep talk to all the athletes, you know, just saying like, man, we're the first sport back on TV, you know, happening.

You know, so it's like, man, okay, so even though there's no crowd, it's like, man, it's almost better than like pay-per-view and all these things. Just everyone's watching, you know, it's like tons of people are watching this. So I couldn't be happier to be a submission, you know. I think another girl, Ariani Lipski, you know, she got a leglock maybe three, four weeks later, you know. So like I barely made it, you know. So I'm really happy that to come off a loss and kind of to have all the everyone watching right now, you know, because everyone was at home, obviously. now things are start to kind of go back to normal

and be like a leg lock that I'm a jitza girl, you know? So it was really good to be able to come back from the loss like that. Like, okay, I'm still in it, guys. I'm still in it. Like, let's go, you know? Was it kind of a different approach going into a fight coming off a loss?

And you've competed in the jiu jutsu world for such a long time. It's not like you've never lost before in competition. But, you know, in the MMA space, was there more motivation this time around? Or did you kind of treat it as just another night in the octagon for you? I felt a little bit more pressure and definitely more pressure than Jiu-Zitzi. I felt like, you know, I like seeing people, because it's not like, oh, I'm going to a round looking card. Like people are like tag me, you know, you know, and people say like mean things and they tag you and put, you know what I mean?

And you're like, man. And people are just saying like, oh, she doesn't win this, you know, then she's really, you know, never coming back, you know. And so it's kind of a lot of pressure, you know, and just, you know, I was kind of like at the end of my contract with the UFC. so I really wanted to get a good impression, you know, and I think it was kind of like a personal thing too, you know, like, okay, I told it. I came back early, you know, four months. For me, I didn't feel like it was early, but a lot of people thought that it was early, so I really would just want to show, like, even though maybe I had that loss.

And even if I was to lose to Hannah, you know, I still felt I was meant to be there, you know? So I really was just kind of feeling some pressure, like at least to do a good fight. And of course, I wanted to win, you know, so the leglock was just some extra, you know? So I definitely felt a lot more pressure, though, than Jiu-Zitsu. I think just the fans and media and all the... Even the UFC, you know, it's a hard world, you know? Like just cut, cut, cut, you know, the fans are like, okay, you don't have it anymore. And you're like, man, that fast.

Yeah, because... So you have a new contract now? That was your last fight. So now you get a new one. Yeah, it was actually like this was the... With Ronda was the last one would be my last one. but after my last fight, we were negotiated for a new contract. So now I got some more fights soon, so I'm excited.

There you go. Congratulations on that. I assume you're happy with how this all played out? Definitely. I think that the leglock, you know, was a great way for me to build to negotiate better. And, yeah, I'm really happy with how it worked out, and I'm excited for the new things that we're going to do with the UFC, you know. Good for you.

So that fight took place in May. It was, like you said, it was the first APEC show during this crazy time in the world. And that was around four or so months ago. And I know you wanted to turn things around very, very quickly. Still, in any era, this is not a long layoff by any stretch of the imagination. But Hannes fought twice since then, which is crazy. Are you happy with, like, the length of time between fights? Or are you hoping to get back in there a little sooner?

It's like, I was wanting to get back sooner. You know, it's fun actually, actually, like my post-fight interview. You know, I'm like, okay, I'm feeling good. you know, and just all the adrenaline and all these things. Of course, even if I win or losing, I want to try and fight again this year too. I've always been used to fighting like three or four times a year. So, and being off the pregnancy was a long time.

I was like, yeah, I'm ready to fight, you know. And then they called me like, hey, do you want to fight Randa in two weeks? I'm like, oh, no, wait, let me think about that, you know. Let me train for this, you know. And I was sore, you know, Hannah got some good on the clinch work. some, I don't know if it was elbows or knees or something. I was, I was sorry, no, no. Okay, maybe not that soon, you know. So maybe I started wanting to get back too early, you know, and now.

And then I'm like, no, give me like four weeks, six weeks, you know, and then they end up pushing it more and more. And man, now I couldn't, I couldn't be happy. I think it was good. And I think I'm a little bit too anxious all the time. And I think it was really good because now I just feel like I was able to train so much more. And, you know, I got my camp kind of was a little bit mixed up.

and now it's a little bit more organized now. So I think everything ended up working out for the best, you know, and I'm able to fight. Rand is a tough girl. You know, she's not just a girl. I'm going to say, like, hey, let me fight in two weeks, you know. She's a tough girl, and I definitely want to use this to show a lot of improvements and stuff like that. And with four months, man, I improve so much, especially with the coronavirus happening, you know,

just in the gym, in the gym, in the gym, and doing my best. So when they offer you the fight for, like, a two-week notice, I guarantee you that, especially knowing you, probably like, yeah, yeah, let's do it. And then you had to, like, slow down a little bit and maybe talk to your manager, the great Daniel Rubenstein, and then you probably put you into place. Is that kind of accurate if I went down? Exactly.

And I'm like, Daniel, oh, and then I'm seeing like, Hannah, I'm like, my Hannah fought again. Because after I said the no to the two weeks, I'm like, okay, but in four weeks I can, you know, and like, no, no, let's go calm, you know. And I'm like, my Hannah's fighting and I'm seeing all these girls fight, you know, and I'm just like, man, I, like, you know, you see everyone fighting. You want to be there. And I'm saying, like, what about fight Ireland? What about this?

you know, and then he's like, explained to me, no, you know, Vegas, it's good, you know, we're not fighting 3 a.m, you know, it's close to the house, not, you know, not 15-hour flight. And I'm like, yeah, that's true, you know. And now I'm so happy because my husband's going to go, my dogs are going to go to this fight. Moa's going and it is, it's bad, you know, it's, I won in the apex, so I definitely am happy to be back there, you know, the same energy. I really liked it. And, yeah, that's why the managers are there, you know, to help take.

care of athletes. So, I mean, things got shuffled around a little bit. Like UFC 253 was supposed to be September 19th, and then it got moved to the 26th, and then it got moved to from Vegas to Abu Dhabi. Was there any talk about moving your fight with Randa to Fight Island at all, or was always Vegas on the 19th, and there was no other discussions? For me, they always said it was Vegas, you know? I even, like, talked to the NSA, I mean, are they going to move ours?

Because I think that's a great card, you know. definitely would like to be on the bohashia and as a day in a card it would be awesome to see that fight live and everything. I'm so excited. So I was really excited for them to be the main event, but then when he said, no, they pushed that one and yours is going to stay here.

So, okay, I'm like, that's fine, you know. But from the beginning, they always said it was just going to be Vegas. Well, you still get Colby and Tyron Woodley. That's a crazy fight too, right? Yeah, I'm a fan of Tyrone for sure. I'm sure there's going to be a lot of Tyrone Woodley fans next Saturday, if you're being honest. But before that happens, you know, you're going to fight Rayne Marcos.

I mean, she's, she's been around for a long time. She's had a weird career where she's flip-flopped wins and losses pretty much the whole way. But she gets in these kinds of fights with the Gadalias and the Angela Hills and the Marina Rodriguez's of the world where people feel that she's going to get steamrolled and somehow she comes through. how has the preparation been in lieu of this fight with somebody like Randa? Because I'm sure compared to most of your opponents, Rand is a little bit more of a puzzle than you've probably had to put together in the past. Is that kind of how you're looking at this? I mean, I think definitely she's the most experience,

and I think she's going to be the most, I guess, like not scared fighter, you know? I think all the girls that fought me, I always felt like I kind of respect, Not that Randah doesn't respect me, I think for sure she respect me, but, you know, I just think she's seen it all, and she's seen everything, you know. She's, like you said, she's been, like, up and down the ring.

She's been from the UFC, the house, you know, when they started the driveway division. So, man, she's been, there's nothing that's really going to scare her, anything like that about my name or about my jitza background, anything like that. So definitely coming into this fight

is just kind of being prepared to show her, like, hey, I'm not scared at her, you know, and I'm here to fight, and I know she's been up, but I haven't been up in the rings yet, you know what I mean? So I'm definitely hungry for this. I don't know how big, how much she's hungry for, you know, for these wins and everything like that. I think for sure she loves to fight because she always puts on a show.

But I definitely think she's had a long career and maybe, you know, you know what I mean? I don't know how much team she has like to keep pushing forward and to have the motivation. She just keep winning and winning and winning all the time. You know, it's kind of like, okay, win one and lose one. win one and lose one and maybe can be kind of tiring to do that. And I'm just like going up right now.

Yeah, because compared to the Hannah fight, like with Hannah, you just do like, all right, she's going to stand up. But if this fight goes to the ground at all, like, it's a wrap, but that's exactly what happened. But with Randa, it's kind of like, you don't know what the heck she's going to do, right? Like, you can do anything. She can take you down. Yeah, uh-huh.

I definitely, I know she's like a grappler, you know, like in the MMA world, you know, so I don't know if she's going to want to grapple. I don't know if she's going to want to, I think she's going to want to, like, go the three rounds. For a lot of her fights, I've seen her, she goes, the whole three rounds, she has like a good gas thing, like, you know, always throwing out those punches. It's kind of a weird style, like a little bit crossing her legs and throwing out some jabs. She knows her distance really good. Like I said, she's so experienced. Those are like things I'm learning to do now, you know, it's like find my distance and learn my range and how to, you know, see everything. So it's definitely

going to be a great fight, I think, to see where I'm placed amongst all the girls. girls, you know? Well, you're working with the right person to learn about range and distance. And that is with one Jason Perillo, there's always changes made between every fight. But I did watch your interview with a good friend of mine in the industry, James Lynch. And you know, you told him that you moved and started working with Jason, who obviously it's a perfect guy to work with in the striking game. But for those who don't know, and I know you've talked about this before, I mean, you have a great relationship with the team over at Blackhouse. But the old, the striking coach over there and your husband got into a fight?

Like, did I hear that right? Like, what happened there, if you don't mind me asking? Yeah, I mean, Black House, man, they always have their academy open for me. All the guys, man, even just like I've been two weeks with Jason. I'm, like, already missing the guys. Like, man, I miss, like, from the amateurs to the pros, you know, just everyone's so hungry to win and help me out so much. So I'm definitely always going back there to visit them and say hi and train and do even do sparring sometimes.

But, yeah, just my ex-coach Juan Gomez, he, I don't know. I don't know what happened that he called us to go to the academy to talk. You know, I think he wasn't happy with bonus and stuff like that, like money-wise for my last fight. And basically, I always like asked my coach, it's like, hey, during camp, if you have anything, just talk to my husband, you know. Obviously, at home, me and him talk about everything, you know, so we're the same person, you know, basically. But when I'm in camp, I don't want to have to think about it, you know. I don't want to think about money or, you know, coaches or anything like that. Just let's just talk about training.

So my husband talked to him and my husband's like the surfer guy, you know, totally, you know, good vibes, you know, Afro. You know, definitely not the fighter style. And he went to go talk to him and he just like, no, if you want to come to the academy, come to the academy and we'll talk and hung up. And we went to the academy and just like swept dirt onto my husband, pushed him. And then obviously my husband pushed him back and then they just went into a fist fight. And I'm just like, yeah. And it wasn't like, it wasn't like a brawl, you know, a crazy bra was like a street fighter, technical fist fight, you know. They're like back in front of my husband's like doing like faints, you know.

And I'm like, man, where's you learning all this? You know? It was so crazy. And my dad is there. So we were, because we were going to have training. So they were like teachers and, you know, I mean, students, like other training partners. And I think they both kind of thought that they were going to like separate this fight. And everyone was just kind of like, hey, one on one, like, like,

let you give me, you know, my dad's there, like, trying to coach his son-in-law, you know. It's like, okay, turn to your right. You're doing good, you know? And they're like, boom, you're fighting. And my husband did so good. And, like, man, as soon as I saw that, like, man, my coach attacked my husband, like, that just finished for us. You know, I can't, I love, like, Black House and everything they're done for him. But, like, with that coach, I can't, I can't work with that. You know what I mean? It's like to attack. No matter how much, I don't know if you're mad about it because your bonus wasn't high enough or whatever, you know, like you just can't attack someone, especially when my husband's so humble, like with water and

keys in the hand, like, hey, can we have that talk that you asked me to do? You know, it's like, man, I don't know what happened. So until today, we don't know exactly what pushed to that level. But yeah, like I said, it was, you know, it was about two weeks ago. So even though it's in the middle of the camp, like, man, I just feel so much at a better place. Like coach, Pat from Ruka, the Ruka gym, Pat, they just opened their arms to me and accept me. And I just feel like in two weeks I've gotten so much better to, you know, so it's like a blessing in disguise. That is one of the most ones that I've ever heard. That is so crazy.

I wonder if that's happened more, you know, more, but people just don't talk about it, you know, but it's like, man, we did nothing wrong, you know. So we have nothing to worry about, you know. It's like, man, there's nothing to hide. It's just, I'm almost like, man, I can't believe my surfer boyfriend, husband, not boyfriend, husband. had to like go through this you know i felt bad for him you know i'm sorry baby they had to go through this you know um but he's like no i love you baby i'll do anything for our family and that's just like oh i love you so much wow unbelievable so i i assume the rest of the coaches that black house understood your decision to leave they're probably like yeah we get it oh yeah for sure i mean from what i heard

i don't think he's um able to train out but able to coach at black house anymore i think he does his own thing. But yeah, like we said, you learn from Black House. He always says, like, man, the doors are always open for you. And so I'm just, just because it's getting close to my fight, I'm just focused on my training at Ruka, but I definitely have to the fight. I'm going to, like, go and visit them and everything like that. But just wants distance from my ex-coach, you know, I don't want to be involved in anything like that. So, yeah. Well, I mean, sometimes a change in location leads to, like a change in perspective mentally, too, like things you didn't know. before or things that may you may have been taught may now be presented to you in a different

way where it opens up. You're like, oh, yeah, that's what you know about that. Like, you can learn a lot as you're going through right now in a short amount of time. Is this just been a huge eye opener for you working with guys like Jason and these coaches? Oh my gosh. So much. You have no idea. It's like, it's just crazy how much information, how much, yeah, like open eyes, you know,

it's a different style, totally different style of coaching. of me learning and everything, different energy. So it's just kind of like, wow, really open my eyes up to like different things that maybe I wasn't the thing that I was doing wrong and like things that now little details that he gave me that like just have my striking so much more. You know, like I feel way more balanced and way more, I guess not throwing so much like leaning into my punches. You know, I'm way more like set foot.

And like just today we're training, you know, there's like Luke Rockhold and Cheater and Scott Eastwood, you know, and just all these. guys, Alengos, there are all these people at the training, and we're just all changing exchange information and having fun, and coach, you know, Perilla's there just helping me prepare. Tomorrow's my last sparring day, so he, like, helped push me and, you know, it's just a good energy. I'm really open my eyes to so many more things now. This is an interesting revelation, because for anybody looking at this fight on paper, most people see it as if, you know, you get it to the mad, just a matter of time, but, you know,

Randa has that savvy. She's got that grid and, you know, she's, she's pretty darn good on the ground herself. But do you feel because Randa has that name and is tough on the mat that there could be a lot of striking here? Like, you know, maybe you surprise some people and knock somebody out on next Saturday night. Is that what you're thinking of this could be a lot of punching kicking here? Definitely. I mean, I definitely don't want to, like, risk take too many chances standing up, you know. Even if I'm feeling great standing up, you know, you just need to hit the spot and I can finish the

So I definitely feel 100% more comfortable on the ground. But I definitely see a knockout can be possible because what's more surprising than addition to the girl, like knocking out, like all of a sudden got that power and has the right technique and, you know, just everything hits the right spot. So it definitely can be a big surprise, I think, to people if I'm able to knock out the fight. And I think it's definitely a big possibility. And I know that Ronda is going to come to try and finish me.

too. So it could, I don't know, I don't know if she want to go to the ground. So, hey, I'm trying so much my wrestling. I'm trying, I'm really to get my takedowns way better. But if she just keeps defending, keeps defending, this keeps defending, I'm not scared to be standing up either and definitely can be, will be dangerous for sure. Do you feel either way that people are going to be like, wow, McKenzie Dern's standup has gotten so much better? 100%. I definitely think people are going to see that. Like, from just from my fight, like, with Amanda Rebus where I'm kind of like, you know, a little bit, I don't know, like getting punched to the face, you know, and I think people who watch that fight will kind of just see McKenzie kind of like,

you know, not going forward and not too much confidence to like now they're going to see the striking are totally different. And I think they saw a little, I mean, it wasn't a lot in the Hannah Seifers, you know, we didn't have that much striking, but I think, at least from what Bisp being in D.C. was saying like, oh, yeah, she has some sharp hands, you know. I think now it's going to be even more, like, easy for people to see, like, oh, yeah, she's getting really better, too, you know? So hopefully people start to see me, like, all around fighter and think, like, man, I want to get, like, five stars on the UFC game and everything like that. So, I mean, you're in the top 15 now, like you mentioned. Where do you think a win over someone like Rand and Marcos, especially if you could put her away?

Where does that put you in this division? Oh, I don't know, you know, because. Until today, I don't understand like 100% the rankings, you know, so I don't know like what exactly they look at like the person you're fighting or how you finish and stuff like that. I don't know exactly their criteria. But man, if it puts me like to top 10, hey, that's awesome, you know, or at least puts me in the spot to fight someone in the top 10,

then I'm happy, you know. So I think definitely if I get a knockout or submission, they'll, I hope that they'll think like, okay, She's coming, you know? She's just coming up and she's like, like I said, going up like this. So we'll see. Well, you're not alone. I don't think a lot of people understand the rankings.

So I think we're in the same boat here. You mentioned Amanda Hebas. She's obviously been making a lot of noise these days. And from all indications, it looks like she's very close to putting pen to paper to fight Carla Sparza in December. What have you made of her quick rise? Because I'm sure at some point, I'm sure you'd like to. to get that one back down the road?

I mean, I don't know. I think that she's doing her fights, and she's on a good run. You know, she's undefeated on the UFC. So that's, hey, that's the momentum you need, you know, is just to keep going to keep going. I don't know if she's four or five fights, I think, without losing. But I know I'm trying to get, you know, my victory's back going.

and we'll see, we'll see if we meet each other one day for the belt again or something like that. You know, definitely, I know she's a tough girl. She's going to give a lot of problems to a lot of the girls in the vision. And man, there's nowhere to run, you know. You have Tatiana Swartis who's undefeated. You know, we have so many tough girls. So definitely, I think as we start climbing the reins, we're going to start to see harder and harder fights, harder matchups, you know. But, yeah, I mean, I think Paige Van Zand, too, she went off to the bare knuckle.

know, she did whatever was good for her, you know, her thing. So I'm excited to see what comes for Paige, what comes for Amanda, what comes for Carla, you know, and definitely what comes for me. So we'll see. I'm excited and I think that she's doing good. I'm not going to ask you about the weight cut per se, because I think you've answered those questions, but I know for a fact. Listen, I can tell by looking at you that you're in a good place right now, but I can assure you you're going to get a million questions about the weight cut on fight week. It just is what it is. Is this just frustrating for you at this point? Because you made it your last two fights. You looked in pretty good spirits for both of those.

Can we just declare for all to see right now to all of my fellow colleagues and media members? Can you just say don't ask me about the damn weight cut? I'm good. I'm going to make it. Don't worry about it. Yeah, I'm 119 today this morning. So, I mean, that's like four pounds, you know from 115, three pounds from the 116. So, yeah, I mean, you guys can't ask, but, man, just stop commenting, start saying like, oh, she's not going to make it, she's not going to make it. Don't worry, I'm going to make it, and I'll probably have, like, you know, I don't know, maybe ice cream before or the night before, you know.

I don't know what's going on. My way's just going, like, it's just responding so well, you know, from the pregnancy. Honestly, I think it's from the pregnancy. Again, I say this like every fight since my pregnancy. I still want to get the strength more and more and more. I still, I'm not aware I want to be 100% strength-wise. Just because Corona and like the jeans, everything's cool, you know, it's just hard to get, I really want to like weight, you know, like get bulk up.

But yeah, I feel good. I'm feeling like even stronger and more leaner or leaner. I think leaner than my last fight. So yeah, my weight's awesome. And yeah, please guys, you don't need to question my weight anymore. I understand. I've had three missed weights in my career. So I know, and my last one in Rio was a lot, you know. So I understand people are going to hold it against me for a while.

But, like, Colby, he made like a meme about me on that fight. So that's why I'm like, man, just stop talking about my weight, you know. Talk about whatever. Talk about Kobe. Talk about whoever, you know, but not about my weight, please. Talk about, like, anything, but not my weight. 119. you're going to make weight before you like get off the plane at this point.

I need to eat. Otherwise I'll be too light. That's like really what we're doing. You know what I mean, like whenever I finish the train, if I see my weights down too low, I'm like eating a little more, you know. Yeah, it's just I don't know why. I'm hoping that like, of course I stopped rest feeding for my last fight because Moe, she couldn't go to Vegas with me.

So that was like basically the cut up that we stopped. So that was in May. I don't know the hormones when they start to. to balance out if things will change. But man, I'm eating good. I'm eating, like, secretly, I'm eating like some ice cream sometimes, you know, and stuff like that. I'm eating a lot.

I'm not eating like little stuff. I asked Charles from the, from the UFC, you know, to send me some proteins and creatine to like build bulk up, you know. So I'm taking these things that are like, they say retain water and stuff like that. It's just, I don't know, I don't know what's happened, but I'm feeling good. Yeah, we kicked out.

It's a different thing to be able to fight and not worry about your weight, you know. Yeah, 100%. You look in a great place right now. Obviously, I think we're all looking forward to this fight. It's a good test for you on the way up, like you said, in this 115 pound division. But it's been a crazy camp for you, it sounds like. So I'm sure you're just ready to get in the octagon and just fight at this point. But thank you for the time, McKenzie.

All the best to you next weekend and safe travels. Yeah, thank you so much. I appreciate it. It's a great fight this Saturday. Good test for McKenzie Dern. Thank you. Big thank you to her for her time. And, you know, as you've seen,

if you've been following Random Marcos's career, when she's coming into a fight off of a loss, not only does she win, she likes to surprise some folks as well. So it should be a lot of fun on September 19th as we move ahead. And listen, in a world that is oftentimes negative, there's no more positive way to wrap up any kind of a show

than to do so with the nicest M-Effert champion of the universe. So let's check in and see what Stephen Wonderboy Thompson is up to right now. Stephen Wonderboy Thompson back on the show. A lot going on in the Walterweight Division, so I thought, you know what, let's check in with the nicest M-Effert champion of the universe himself. Stephen, good to see you, man. Good to see you too, man. Always a pleasure to be on with you, my friend.

Always have a good chat in a good time. So I appreciate you having me on. Absolutely, man. So how's things going in South Carolina? We were talking a little bit off air. You said upstate karate is just bursting at the seams right now. Everybody wants to come in and learn. Everybody's wanting to come in, man.

I mean, we got, you know, kids are coming back. You know, well, first off, kids are allowed to go to school, I think, twice a week. So when they're not in school, you know, parents, a lot of these parents that are working full-time can't be at home all the time. So we have an e-learning thing going on in our gym. So my brother and a bunch of other teachers are there helping them out, open it up at 7 a.m. helping these kids with their homework. They know not to bring me in to help any of these kids with their homework. So I and the gym teacher and the lunch teacher.

The two subjects I was the best at in school, gym and lunch. So that's what I do. But yeah, everything's getting back to normal, slowly but surely. So let me ask you a question because I'm curious about this because I had an interesting conversation with my wife about this specifically. So I don't know if you've watched, have you watched Cobra Chi yet? have I watched Cobra Kai First off

Karate Kid was one of my all-time favorite movies growing up and for then to come back and I love it because you know the 80s is kind of coming back right like the whole 80s

vibe you got that with stranger things I love the freaking 80s movie I like the whole 80s vibe it still has and you know not caring what people think about them and just saying what you want to say

it's hilarious I mean and it still has kind of like that cheesy you know martial arts vibe to it as well. You know what I mean? Kind of like cheesy. And that's what the whole karate kid was about going up, you know. It was, uh, it was, it just makes karate cool again. I love it. Have you seen an uptick in memberships because of that? Because like, my wife is going is, is through the show like the, I think like season two, the fourth time around. She signed up for

a martial art for Okinawa karate today for a three month program. And I was like, are you kidding me? I was like, oh, you're doing it? She goes, she goes, yeah, she goes after watching COBRA Kai. Like if something happens in the parking line, I won't be able to kick some buttons. That is so cool. I was so happy. I don't know. We're getting a lot of kids coming in, brand new kids. Like, we literally had like 15 new kids started this week.

And I got to ask them. It might be because of Cobra Cye because it's on Netflix now. Yep. So I got to ask. I got to ask. Cobra Cai's making karate cool again. I love it, man. And your wife started.

That's hardcore. She starts tomorrow. Her first class tomorrow. Tell us to kick some behind. All right. Train hard. I will tell her that. So let's talk about you because, I mean, there's so much exciting stuff going on in your world. There's a lot going on at 170 pounds, but more importantly than that, how's everything going

with you, I guess, in your quest to return to fighting whenever that opportunity may arise? I know, man. Everything's good. Like, everything's good. My injuries are healed up. Like, it kind of took a weird turn. You know, I broke my hands my last fight, almost last year. I mean, it's almost been a year.

year since I fought. November. I broke my hands, you know, took forever for the things to heal. I don't know if it's because I'm getting older. I don't like to think that, but you don't get good circulation in your hands anyway. So it just takes longer to heal. And then, you know, I was looking to make a comeback, you know, May, June, and then COVID hits, you know, and everything's shutting down. And then I had Chris Wyman come into town. He spent a lot of his camp with us. And, And he ended up picking me up and dumping me on my freaking head. And I dislocated like my collarbone, right? So like my, every time I'll throw a punch or fall down, my collarbone kind of rub across my breastplate.

It was super painful. And then, but you know what? Everything's fine now. I am on a quest right now. I don't know who I'm going to fight, but I am ready. I am itching at the bits to step back out there and do it again for the fans, for myself. For you, man, for you. And for Cobra Kai.

And for Cobra Chi. That's right. William Zapp, Zapp, Johnny Lawrence. Johnny Lawrence eats some Wonderboy right now. Oh, I love it. I love it. So good thing Chris won his fight after dumping you like that. Oh, I know.

I know. And you know what? It's funny because, you know, he starts off the fight moving like me. Like everybody, always looking like Wonderboy out there. I'm like, God, please. Like, you know, because whenever he, you know, I think he lost the Luke Rockold, he threw a spin kick. And everybody blamed me for it.

What'd you do? That wasn't my fight. I didn't teach him that. But he started moving around and, you know, he kind of reverted back to his old, his way he normally fights, right, that just grinding mentality, his wrestling. And the guy that he fought was just, he said he was the strongest dude that he has faced. And the guy was huge. He used to fight in my weight class.

Yeah. I think he got beat by Gunner Nelson. And he said he was so strong. And of course, you know, you know, that being, it's been a while since he's fought with the next surgeons and things like that. You kind of get out of the swing of things, and it was kind of like a do-or-die fight for him. You know, he had to go out there and perform and win this fight. So there was a lot of stress going along with it.

But I was very glad to see him go out there and beat this guy. You know what I mean? The old Chris Wyman going out there, even though he got tired in the second round, he'd come back in the third round just gung-ho. You know, like he wasn't even tired. So I'm proud of a man for sure, getting that win, getting that W. And his mind's right. He's now a southerner.

Yes. moved to South Carolina. I don't know if you saw that or not, but he's slowly talking like this. So, yeah, he's living about an hour and 30 minutes away from me. He's still in South Carolina, Fort Mill area, which is in between Charlotte and us. So he's got family and Charlotte family here, and he wanted to kind of be close enough to both. So he'd right smack dead and middle on the South Carolina side. Very cool.

I'm glad. Yeah, now you don't have to go all the way to New York to see him. You just drive in the car, drive an hour and a half. It's beautiful. I know. I love it. I cannot wait. I'm just going to drive up there this weekend and say, what's up? You should. You better open your doors. I'm coming in. I'm going to get rid of me now. Say what's up and then get back of the car and go home and just do it like that. See you. So, I mean, so much has happened since we last spoke. We spoke right before UFC 251.

It was Usman v. Mazadol in the main event. Usman retains his title. And the fight went the way most expected it to. You included. You came on the show and you said, I'm a Mazadol fan all the way because of where it could lead to. But you said, listen, I'm going with Usman. I just feel like his wrestling is going to be too much. What did you make of Usman's performance? And more importantly, I guess it wasn't viewed very positively amongst the fan base. But, you know, a win is a win. You get to defend your title and make that money, right?

Exactly. Exactly. But the thing is, you know, Uzman is not the type of guy to go out in, you know, with a spectacular knockout. He's never been. I think he's got maybe one or two. I'm not sure what his record is, but he doesn't have a whole lot. And he's a wrestler, right? He's a wrestler, and that's what he does best.

That's what got him the title. He uses it striking to get his opponent up. He gets his opponent up and he grinds him out, right? And he's, you know, he did exactly what I thought he was going to do, you know. Mazzvedal, I thought he was going to be, I thought, you know, I knew Mons Vidal has made some improvements. and he defended the majority of the takedowns against Usman, which surprised me him being a smaller, you know, a smaller welterweight. He defended the takedowns fairly well.

And I know he kind of fatigued there at the end. I know he was coming on to this fight, but, you know, kind of last minute. But I thought, I thought Mazvado did a spectacular job, a really good job. And I think with a proper camp, he could go out there and really take it to Usman for sure. but I knew Uzman was going to go out there and kind of do what it does what it does best We're out there grinding him out there grinding him out of him Usman did exactly what I thought he was going to do

And Mazbado surprised me with how well he defended the takedown So now, so since then Now we got Covington versus Woodley next week We got Usman versus Burns at the end of the year We got Mazadal Diaz too likely to happen in January so there's a lot going on But one piece of business I wanted to Marzden all fight

If he won you know I know he could have still the scofford win win i was just hoping just for like an upset just something crazy another flying knee but no it didn't happen but you know what i'm not giving hopes up um as of right now i'm opponentless i hear nick diaz wants to come back i just the way out there hey nick i mean yeah nick you know let's let's break it down i welcome you back to the weltsway division with open arms sir i would love to in the nicest way possibly the nmf way right and then you got you know leon edwards who I think is the scariest dude in the division.

I don't care what people are saying. The guy has improved so much with his take down, his jiu-jitsu. He's out grappling grapplers. You know, he sort of did the RDA. And he also did the same thing to Vicente Lucke. You know, he came into the UFC as striker. And he's a great striker at that. You know, he just gets better every day.

And that's a scary guy. You know what I'm saying? He can knock you out. He can take you down as well. And those are the fights that I'll. like you know i like to fight those kind of guys because it lets me know where i'm at right and i love the the whole game of trying to figure somebody like that out same thing with uh rory mcdonald so i think leon alex would be a great fight too i know he's he's got his eyes set on the title which i think

you rightfully deserves you know uh he's got more wins than just about anybody in the top five you know back to back he's on that crazy winning streak but i know he's looking for that i know he wants the Mazvedo fight. And, you know, I think everybody's got beef with Mazvedo, Mazadol except for me. I love Mazvedo. I love that guy. But, you know, the three-piece in a soda, you know, he pieced him up with.

I know that would, that would be a money fight for sure. But I don't have a fight. He ain't got a fight. Let's make it happen. Nick, I know you want to come back. I'll be ready for November. Let's make it happen. So, and it's kind of up in there with Nick.

I know he said a few years back, or, you know, I think a year or two ago that he was going to come back, but it never did. So I know we did an interview with Aero Hwani, who said he would never come back, you know, let everybody believe that he's probably never going to come back. But we'll see. I don't know why he would do that weight cut, but it looked great, 175. Yeah, I was just, I was just going to ask you because ever since this news came out, friends of mine who are fans of the sport, friends of friends of mine who are very casual

fans of the sport, I've all called me, have all texted me, and they said, Nick Diaz is coming back. And I'm like, yeah, so? Like, I'm like, listen, one of my colleagues on one of the shows I host said it beautifully. He goes, the most ironic thing in MMA, is that the guy who brought out the term wolf tickets has sold more of them than anybody else in the sport right now and he's talking about Nick.

Do you believe that he's going to come back? Was that video enough for you to believe it? No, I don't think it's enough for me to believe it. You know, I'll believe it when I see it. When it's a set and done fight, then I'll believe it. You know, because he said several times that he's coming back and, you know, yeah, he's a great fighter. He's like GSP.

He's a lifelong martial artist. So I know if he does come back, what kind of trips he's got up his sleeve? Or is he going to be the same fighter as he was before? So I'm anxious to see if it's possible, what is something different he's going to bring to the table? Because everybody around him has improved. The game has changed a little bit since the last time he's fought. Has he made the changes as well? But I'll believe it when I see it, my friend.

I'm at the point where he needs to be in the octagon getting introduced by buffer and then the door shuts and then the punches are thrown. And then I'll be like, yes, there he is. He's back. He's officially back. I'm with you. I'm with you. 100%. I feel like the Edwards fight is a no-brainer. Like I know you did an interview with the great dudes from submission radio.

It seemed like you took a different approach kind of in that conversation. But I feel like you and Leon is the fight to make. And I think he kind of agrees with that too. The only other option for Leon is that he waits for Usman versus Burns. But, I mean, that could be like March, April of next year. I don't think he wants to wait that long. I don't think so either but either way

it's like to the point of where hey and I'm kind of been in that situation too I am right here I am right here I'm this close of winning the title right do I take another fight

and possibly lose right that will take that chance away so I know where he's kind of coming from and kind of frustrated if he does want to fight somebody he wants a money fight which is why I think is calling out Mazzvedal. Mazvedal is like the shit,

the bee's knees right now. You know, the she is, like I didn't say it. I didn't say, you thought I was going to say it. You thought I was going to say it. I got you.

You did. You know, he's the bees' knees right now and everybody wants to fight him, which is understandable. The guys, been in the game for a long time and he's busting heads.

So, which I don't, I don't understand that. I don't know. I know it doesn't make sense for Mazzvedal to fight. Nick again. I mean, Nate,

I thought he destroyed Nate. You know, I thought it was a good stoppage, you know. I think if it went on any longer, Mazadal was going to just knock him out cold, you know, and I don't understand why they would make that happen again because he just hands down just dominated him. Yeah, I agree. I just can't believe Leon Edwards versus Mazadol hasn't been booked already. I mean, at this point, like, how can you even sell? Like, you could show the video of the three pieces of the soda, but I feel like so much time has passed at this point that, like,

you almost have to run. it back again in a locker room somewhere around the world to bring that back out, you know? Exactly, exactly. But he's like right there. So I kind of understand where he's coming from. But you know what? If he wants to, if he wants to stay fresh, if he wants another fight between now and then, I'm here. I'm here, Leon Edwards.

If you want to do it, let's do it. I know we're managed by the same management company and things like that. But, you know, I respect the guy. I've never actually, I think I've met him maybe one time. I don't think we've ever actually talked to each other, to be honest with you. But super, super high-level fighter. I like the guy, to be honest with you. I like the guy.

And everybody that I've talked to in a management company has nothing but good things to say. But yeah, man, if he's looking for a fight, I'm here waiting at the gym at upstate karate in South Carolina in my meditative position waiting. The phone is on. So a few more things. I know Covington v. Woodley's coming up next weekend in Vegas. Tyrant's been in a slump, but if there's any fight that this guy is going to get motivated for, it's going to be this one. And from everything that I've heard, Tyron looks like the old Tyrant. He looks really good.

He brought Mazadol out to St. Louis to help him out. Yes, I was about to say that. We haven't seen anything from Colby side, like since this fight was official. He's keeping things quiet. He's keeping things underground. It's an interesting matchup. You've been in there with Tyron for almost an hour in your career. Like, what do you think of this fight?

I am really excited. I'm ready to see my man, Tyron, woulda would go out there and finish this guy, you know? You got the guys you love to like, and you got you guys you love to hate in the sport. And I think Kobe Covington, he has made it himself to be the unlikable guy, right? You know, it was the whole beef of the gyms that he was going to.

He had a Mazadol. We're friends. Now they don't like each other. Now you got Mazidol, the BMF, going up to help Tyron, finish Kobe Covington. I think it's great. And from what I hear, Tyrant is ready to rock.

And I think it was kind of an eye open to his last fight. And I was watching some interviews and seeing him on Instagram and stuff like that. He was fired up for that as well. He's fired up. And when he went out there, I think he took that shot in the first round. You know, he kind of went downhill from there.

But I think he's rekindled that flame a little bit. And like I said, if you're going to get motivated for a fight, It's going to be a guy like Colby Covington. So I'm excited to see it. I'm rooting from a man, Tyron Woodley. You know, he's 38 years old. He's a year older than me.

And that kind of motivates me, hey, I'm a young 37-year-old. I can still fight the best of them. You know, I'm still improving every day. And I know he is, too. So that's who I'm rooting for. I think it's going to be a fun fight. There's going to be some smack, I think, in the octagon, outside the octagon, whatever.

But I'm excited for it, for sure. It's got to be a fun fight weekend. like hearing you say young 37 year old because right here with you buddy right here with you 37 37 February of 1983 bro. Booyah. So we're close, right? You're February, your February birthday too, right?

February 11th, yeah. You're a day older than me. Shut up. You're February 10th. 12th. What? February 12th, yep, you're a day older than me. I mean 12.

Excuse me, 12. Yeah. Let's go. him I want to get your opinion on is Hasmat Shemayev because we haven't heard much from him since Fight Island. How do you say that again? How do you say? Hasmat Shemayev.

Hasmat. Okay. Pushing him like crazy. And I know he's got, what, two fights books? He's got Mearshaart next week and then Damien Maya in November. Wow. I mean, this dude, this dude, hey, bro. The way he was out there finished course, I don't know who the guys he was fighting,

but the dude's tough, man. He's like a 170 Kabib, right? He's just a grinder. I would love to see how he's going to do against some of the top tier guys, right? Yeah, the UFC is pushing him, but you've got to kind of be careful. Yeah, he's very confident, which he's a young guy, and that confidence comes with it. But you also got to look back, you know, these guys, you know, the UFC can push you a little too fast. And if you're not careful, you know, you can go out there and have that confidence.

Next thing you know, with somebody with some really good experience can put you away. I think the fight with him and Damien Mayan was going to be very interesting. Two grapplers. Yeah, Damien's a lot older. And I think he's kind of coming down from where he was before, you know, kind of working his way. I think he's got one fight maybe left on his contract. I think I'm not fair. One fight, this is it.

So hopefully, you know, he'll go out there and we'll see the best of Damia Maya on his last fight. But because Matt is a tough dude. I haven't seen, I remember going, going back and watching his striking. I think he's kind of like a baby. He uses his strikes for the wrestling, right? He uses it to get it to grind his guys out. But yeah, interesting to see how he's going to do with these top tier guys. And it's interesting to see how fast the UFC is pushing and how hard they're pushing this guy.

So definitely, you know, a tough dude. A guy you've got to keep your eyes on for sure. Yeah. Somebody like me especially, you know. Yeah, absolutely. The Mirashar fight is super interesting because Mirchart's got like almost 50 fights in his career. He's a tough out. Tough out.

Man. And how old is he? 30s. He's in his 30s, low 30s. He's just spent super active over the years. And he's what? He's from what Russia? Mershard is, uh, he's like a Wisconsin guy.

He's, he's, he's in St. Louis right now with Woodley. They're finishing up camp together because they're both like Rufusport guys. Okay, cool, cool, cool. Okay. Yeah, man, I'm 55. that's ridiculous. 50 MMA fights? He's got 40,

this would be a 45th or 46th fight coming out. Man, to have that, that's a lot of MMA fights right there. You know, I came in the game fairly late. I know how brutal this game is. He must be a really just durable guy. You know, maybe he's dense.

I don't know. But I feel like I'm falling apart sometimes. You know what I mean? Trans, oh, my hip, my collar bone. You know, but, hey, man, good for him, dude. I'm glad to see him. Hopefully it goes out there makes the guy work, you know, just makes some work.

Make him think twice and kind of humble him a little bit. I like to see guys with, you know, I like to see with confidence, but not over the top confidence. You know, and you like to see those guys get humbled a little bit. But can't take this guy lightly. No. Last thing before we let you go, you give me a few more minutes than I asked you for. I appreciate that very much.

How hard did you laugh when you saw that, I think 2020 has been hard for you? done for Wonderboy and there's a picture of crying Ellen. Bro, I laughed so hard. I did the double take. I'm like, what, wait, is that? That's not me. What that?

I thought it was me for a second. Like, you know, terrible people. I laughed so hard, man. And then I reposted it and it got crazy. It was hilarious, man. I think it went to follow there for a second. But, yeah, I laugh so hard. Because, you know, it's funny because it's kind of, I mean, if you look at me, if you look

out like this. It may it looked like me. But my gosh, Ellen DeGeneres. I thought it was hilarious. Whoever put that together, I need to like a high-five them or something. I thought was funny, man. Virtual high-five if you're watching right now. Yeah, virtual high-five if you're watching. Oh, by the way,

where can we find all of your wonderful YouTube videos? Oh, my goodness, yes. Check it out. And we got some really cool ones coming up. I did one last week. It was UFC fighter against a taser. I don't know if you saw that. Did you see that? I haven't watched it yet. But it's bookmarked. It's awesome.

It's awesome. USC butter versus taser. A lot of fun. But, you know, I break down fighters. I break down my techniques. For, you know, people who are fans and I have mindset videos as well. Go check it out. Is Stephen Wonderboy Thompson on YouTube?

Hit that subscribe button. And you guys can, you know, I'm on Instagram, Wonderboy MMA, Twitter, Wonderboy MMA, Facebook, Steve Wonderboy Thompson. So come and check me. out. That's all I got to say. And of course, this guy right here, obviously. Thank you for everything, man. I always love chatting with you. And there you have it. Another edition of what the heck is in the book's big shout out and a whole bunch of appreciation sent to all of our guests this week. Always a pleasure to talk with these amazing athletes, these phenomenal men and women of our sport as we put

a bow on another episode of the show. Big thank you to Casey. Lydden on the production, as always, Esther Lynn on the graphics. And of course, to all of you watching and or listening to the program every week, it means the world. And with that, I am Mike Hexing so long, everybody. And as always, have a heck of a week, everybody.