MMA Fighting - What the Heck: Episode 25 | Mike Rodriguez, Kevin Croom, Kevin Holland & Brandon Royval

Episode Date: September 17, 2020

Check out episode 25 of MMA Fighting's What the Heck as Mike Heck speaks with Kevin Croom (4:28) to recap his memorable octagon debut submission win over Roosevelt Roberts at UFC Vegas 10. Kevin Holland (28:12) previews his upcoming fight with Darren Stewart this Saturday at UFC Vegas 11 and reiterates his desire to smack Marvin Vettori. Brandon Royval (41:09) discusses his upcoming flyweight matchup with Kai Kara-France on the main card of UFC 253 next Saturday night and the addition of a new member of his corner. Finally, Mike Rodriguez (1:08:30) recaps the bizarre ending to his fight with Ed Herman this past Saturday at UFC Vegas 10.  Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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What the heck? Hello there, everybody. Welcome to a brand new edition of What the Heck right here on MMAFighting.com. I am Mike Heck. Hope you're having a great week. Huge couple of weeks coming up for the UFC. And it begins this Saturday with UFC, Vegas. 11 headlined by the Walterweight grudge match between Colby Covington and Tyron Woodley.

We have tons of coverage in regard to that event, including the last in-depth interview Colby Covington did before the fight on Saturday. He's got the press conference with Tyron later on today as this drops. I know he's done a couple of quick shots this week as well with some various reporters, but full-on Colby-style interview. go back into the archives and check that out if you haven't seen it yet because that's the last time we've heard from him in the way we're accustomed to.

But this is a really fun card on Saturday. We got Nico Price versus Donald Cowboy Soroni and the co-main event. We have Hamzat Shemayev versus Gerald Mearshard. I am so fascinated by that fight. One of the more fascinating fights on the card. Kevin Holland versus Darren Stewart. We got Mackenzie Dern versus Random Marcos

and then Johnny Walker versus Ryan Span. that's your main card prelims are great too and then that event's going to lead right into ufc 253 next weekend in abu daby that's going to begin a five-week stretch for the ufc on fight island and of course you know by now the promotion has been tremendous ufc 53 we get israel adesia versus paolo costa for the middleweight title that's the main event and then the co-made event for the vacant light heavyweight title Dominic Reyes versus Jan Blahovic. There's no slowing down for any of us. So with that being said, let's just get right into this thing.

Let's run down the lineup, get right to our first guest. Rounding us off, if you missed it, we dropped this conversation late Monday afternoon, but if you didn't catch it for one reason or another, if it's been lost in the shuffle since then with all the UFC Vegas 11 stuff going on, we're going to replay our chat with Slow Mike Rodriguez coming off that craziness. weekend at UFC Vegas 10 against Ed Herman. I don't need to go into it anymore. You guys have heard all about it.

You've seen it. But we're going to hear from Mike himself, if you haven't checked that out yet. He handled it with a ton of class, and that's how we're going to put a bow on this week's show. Speaking of UFC 253, before the two title fights, this is going to be a really fun one at 125 pounds on September 26th between Kikar, France, and Brandon Royval.

Brandon's going to join us once again to preview that matchup, talk about his first camp as a full-time fighter. That was a big story coming out of his UFC debut win over Tim Elliott. He wanted to get a bonus so he could put his two-week notice in and quit his job and focus on fighting full-time. Well, he's doing that now. And some surprising faces have joined him for this fight camp. And we'll also be joining him in his corner.

You'll hear more about that coming up. Always enjoy chatting with the raw dog. Yeah, that's his nickname. We just got to live with it. He tells the story in a past interview if you want to find out about that. Kevin Holland's going to join us in around 20 minutes. He takes on Darren Stewart to kick off the main card

on Saturday night at UFC Vegas 11. The interview is a little chaotic. I'll explain more about that coming up. But first, the feel-good story of UFC Vegas 10 was Kevin Kroom, a 13-year journey led to a dream coming true. He got the long-awaited UFC call a couple of weeks ago. Then it was taken away, which he'll explain in the conversation.

And then it comes again, and he puts away Roosevelt Roberts in just a matter of seconds. Via submission, lands this massive overhead left, chokes him, gets the tap, and what a moment. So we had to have him on. We had to have him on. So kicking us off this week on what the heck, my chat with Kevin Krum. All right, well, Saturday night had some great moments. One moment surpass them all, and it's because of this man with the shades. Kevin Krum makes his UFC debut on super short notice, last minute, and submits Roosevelt Roberts in a matter of seconds.

And I'm happy to be joined by the hard-hitting hillbilly right now. It's been like five or six years since we've had one of these chats. How are you, man? Yeah, I'm doing phenomenal. Obviously, things couldn't be better. Yeah, what a story of this is. I mean, what a road it has been, a 13-year roller coaster ride. You kept at it throughout all of the ups and downs, and you finally made it to the UFC

and delivered a performance like that. You're smiling. I'm sure it hasn't even left your face, but does this seem real or has it been like a blur since Saturday night? I mean, yeah, like, you know, I'm starting to sink in, you know, starting to get paid a little bit a little bit. So, you know, that makes it a little bit more real. But, I mean, yeah, man, it's still just amazing.

I'm on cloud 22, you know. So I do want to go back a few weeks because you were slotted to fight Alex Casares. And then like a day or two later, we found out that was no longer happening. And then I guess you were, I mean, temporarily, temporarily release would be the right way to put it because you're right back at it. But ultimately, you got your shot after all. But can you talk about what happened a few weeks back? I tested for the Rona. Apparently I had COVID, man.

I mean, I had no symptoms. There's no, like, a. I felt amazing. None of the people, like, I was around had it. Like, uh, uh, so I mean, I don't know what happened, but whatever, uh, minor setback. It obviously was a roller coaster of emotions, but, uh, whatever. Like, uh, I kind of kind of used it to my advantage. I feel like, uh, I feel like this time I was back for the, for the first time, you know,

like, uh, I'd already experienced a lot of emotions with it. You know, I mean, 13 years. I've been waiting forever for this. So obviously a lot of emotions with it. So I felt like I got those out of the way on my first experience. And then I was able to just really focus and enjoy the moment and soak it all in. Yeah, I was speaking to one of your teammates, Jeff Molina, after you got the contract in the contender series.

And he told me like his whole corner tested positive. So we had no corners. And then I think you flew out and then you were going to try to corner him. And then you tested positive. Like that's what happened. Yeah. Yeah, man. It's rough.

Crazy. Yeah, roller coaster. So you get this other opportunity, and timing works perfectly for you against Roosevelt Roberts. He was supposed to fight Matt Vrivola. Then on Friday morning, we found out that you were in. How did this happen? Like, when were you giving the heads up that you were in for this fight? I got a phone call. I was, like, doing medical so I could get cleared to fight. And I was, like, pulling into the doctor's office to, like, two. 215 on Thursday, got the call. I had to like finish medicals, rush home, had barely five minutes at home to grab my mouthpiece and whatnot.

He ran to the airport as fast as possible, got to the plane like 30 minutes before boarding. Found my coach. Set down next to James. I was like, who am I fighting? You know what I mean? Like I didn't even know. It didn't matter. like whatever and I mean we still didn't even know like I still had to do medicals after I weighed in

so like I left I left the apex after way and did went and immediately did medicals and stuff so like I mean I still didn't technically know like weighing in I was pretty sure I was a UFC fighter but I still wasn't sure you know I mean like till I started throwing hands so so when you were getting your medicals before you went to the airport and getting all those test done in case something came up? Like, did you know something might be happening or were you just doing that just in case? Yeah, well, there have been a few, a few things. Like, I, uh, I was offered a fight like the week, the week after, like, uh, I got a negative corona test and I sent to the UFC and then they called me that day and asked if I could make 45 and 12 hours and fly out

there. And I said yes. And, uh, and, uh, then death I ended up falling through. But after that, Sean Shelby said, just stay ready and we'll get them in. So, I mean, I knew this was coming. I've, you know, been working really hard. So I knew it was about to come. So it was just a matter of a matter of holding on

and seeing how long, seeing how long I could hold out before I ran out of money. Yeah, I was just going to say, because you put out this tweet earlier this week that on Wednesday, you had $64 in your bank account, and you were trying to find a way to make it to $65. Like is that is that true? Like what was that like for you look at your bank account seeing that number? Yeah.

Well, I mean, uh, unfortunately, I'm pretty used to that. So I mean, that's not that not too crazy. I just, you know, my, my job I work construction or, you know, I mean, I have work construction. But, uh, so at the beginning of the summer, I had a nice little, a nice little chunk of change. But, uh, I fought in August. And so I took like a lot of time off of work. just lived kind of off my savings to get ready for that fight. And then I did well in that fight.

So I knew the UFC was going to be coming. So I didn't want to start, you know, I didn't want to go to work. I wanted to stay in the gym. So, I mean, I just kind of lived off all my savings and everything. And it kind of dwindled down. And I woke up on Wednesday. And I was like, well, I guess I'm going to have to, like, build a fence on Friday or Saturday and Sunday, you know, so I could get a full week of training in and just work on the weekends.

it turns out I didn't have to. There you go. And now you're like, does it feel like kind of crazy that you're going to look at your bank? I mean, you're probably looking at your bank account now and seeing a lot more. But then like, you know, 30, 60, 90 days and that bonus check clears, you're going to have like $70,000 and $64 in a bank account. Like, are you prepared to see that? Yeah, well, I mean, I woke up today with more money than I made last year in my bank. So, like, I mean, that's pretty fucking dope, you know.

So, yeah, I mean, I can only imagine. My sister sent me a message today, and she told me that if I don't at least cash that out of the bank and make it rain to my bedroom one time, she doesn't even know who I am anymore. And I told her that's a really good point. So I think I'm going to have to do that with at least 20 grand. When do you plan on doing that? And are you going to put this on your social media for the world to see? Oh, for sure. Oh, for sure.

Wait until that bonus check comes in, and I'm going to make it rain for sure. So I had actually interviewed you years ago before your Shamrock FC fight in January 2015. It was one of like the first maybe dozen interviews I had done in my career. But the first time you really got on my radar after that was at the beginning of 2017, because I'm a New England guy and you had a chance to fight Matt Bassette from CES featherweight title. You guys beat the hell out of each other for about 10 minutes until Matt finally finished it in the third round. Like, you must remember that fight because Matt talks about that fight all the time being probably the most pivotal fight of his career that ultimately led to him getting a shot at the UFC. Do you remember that fight fondly?

No, I mean, I don't remember as fondly as he does, that's for sure. You know, I mean, obviously, man, I think the world of Matt, I think he's spectacular. I love the guy. It seems that we have a lot in common. He's an amazing fighter. He's got a great taste. You know, yeah, man, it was a great, it was, it was a good fight. Not my best.

Not, not something I'm super proud of, you know, but whatever. I mean, it's an entertaining fight for the fans, I suppose. I am an entertainer, so. But, I mean, yeah, I mean, obviously you would have rather walked out of there with, with a championship belt and a victory, but still. Yeah, I mean, I could have, I could have just done things a lot smarter. I could have fought a lot smarter. I'm fighting smarter nowadays.

I just wasn't ready. I just wasn't ready then. It was a, you know, it was a great fight. And I mean, I just, I just wasn't, wasn't ready for that level at that moment. You know what I mean? He's a phenomenal athlete. So you took, like, maybe a year or so off after that fight. I think you were scheduled for something like two months later and then it never happened.

But you go two and three in your next five. But then since that Bellator lost to John Tashara, that's when things started to change for you. Like you finished crazy horse in the first round. you get a Bellator win, and then you had that win in August that you were talking about before all these UFC calls came. What would you say like changed for you because, you know, it's been quite some time since you've been on a winning streak like this. Yeah, man, well, I started out young in this game with a lot more balls and brains, took all on all comers, didn't listen to anybody, thought I was the baddest man ever, flew overseas, fought savages that nobody's ever heard of, all this stuff. And, man, like after you get beaten down a couple times, like that kind of will mess up your psyche, you know, like. And so, I mean, I just had a lot of self-doubt.

I was, I was fighting with a lot of self-doubt. You know, I mean, it was just difficult, you know. And then the losing streak doesn't help that. And then so I took that time off. I moved from Albuquerque to Kansas City after the Bessafite and took. I took like four months off of training. Like if I wanted to go roll and do some jihisu I did, but if I didn't want to, I didn't.

And like, I've never done that. Like the 10 years, the 10 years at that point I'd been fighting. And I just kind of took time off and tried to evaluate my situation and figure out the route and started training at glory. And I mean, long road still. Like, I mean, I still had to overcome my self-confidence and just trying to figure out how to do this whole fucking fight game again.

But even though I lost that McCapa fight, I feel like I just kind of learned some things, and I gained some confidence in myself again through that fight, even with the loss. And so, yeah, I mean, I think just that's what my dedication. I took that fight on like two weeks notice, and I hadn't been in the gym as much as I would have wanted to. I had like had a hard winner.

And I had been working, like, out of town to make some money. So I hadn't been in the gym that much. And I took that fight on a short notice. And I just realized then, like, after I lost that if I wanted to make this a thing, I had to be in the gym every day, like, no matter what, no matter if I was starving, no matter what, like, I'm in the gym. And because my opportunity is going to come like that. And that's exactly what happened.

I mean, I took a final on a day's notice to wait class up. Boom. You know, so. So it sounds to me. like at one point in your career, it was probably several points in your career. You're at a crossroads where you're just like, all right, do I, do I keep on this path and keep going? Because I'm sure you asked yourself at times like, why the hell am I doing this? Like, I feel like I'm doing everything right here, but it's just not happening. Like, you know, what are those

conversations like with yourself? Man, what's, what's the worst is I, I, I, like, knew I wasn't doing everything right. And I knew 100% that I was better than what I was, what I was showing every time. man like I remember after the Kappa fight being with James and Grant and just like crying and just being like, hey man, like I'm good at this guy. It's like right? Like I am good. Like please tell me I should be doing this, you know? They obviously were like, yeah, like, you know, we believe in you.

Here we are. But yeah, man, I mean, it's rough. It's rough to know how good you are and it's like never be able to show that. Oh, it's tormenting. But, you know, I mean, hopefully I think in my last couple fights, my last fight in August, I just kind of learned some things. And I feel like I was really able to show that. I know it was only 30 seconds, but I came out. And I mean, a lot happened in that 30 seconds.

I did really good. When did you know, like, I'm sticking with this thing. Like, no matter what happens, like, I'm staying with it. Like, when did you know, like, that you're going to stay at? on this path. I mean, it's, you know, been off and all. I have to reaffirm that so long. But, like, I mean, I haven't had any doubt since, I don't know, probably last year

about this time. Things were going hard. Like, I beat crazy horse, and I just didn't have any fights coming up. Bills were coming up. I didn't have any money. And I had a conversation with Grant Dawson about just, man, I'm kind of losing faith. bills are getting hard to pay. I don't know what to do.

And he just looked me in the eye and told me, told me how much he believed in me, told me that he believed more than anything that I would make it. He knew it 100%. He had no doubt in his mind. And just like his belief in me just helped me, help me, you know.

What was that walk to the octagon like for you? Like, I'm sure you dreamt it up for so many years, a little different, you know, it's a little different when not having all these people in the crowd cheering and you're having, not having your family and friends, et cetera there, but still the lights,

the music, like you see the octagon and you're walking towards it about the fight. Like, what was that moment like for you? Yeah, it was amazing. I,

I've dreamed of that, you know, and I think I, I nailed it. I wanted to soak it in. I wanted to take my time and enjoy every moment, you know,

like I, I've waited forever for it. So, yeah, uh, I killed it. We've seen guys make their debuts like, this, especially in 2020. Like, I'd say Justin James is like a perfect example.

He knew he had to go in there in like a day's notice. And he knew he had to make it quick because he only had so much gas in the tank. So like when he started swinging them bolos at Frank Camacho, his plan was like, I'm just going to empty the gas tank right now. If I fail, I fail. But, you know, if he falls even better. Like, and the latter is what ended up happening for him and he gets a huge win. Is that how you kind of approach this fight too?

No, not at all. I mean, we kind of figured it would be a knockout, dragout thing. you know, James Krause told me that, you know, he's come out. It would be a really tough first round. We were expecting he's really good. He's long. He's got a quick, quick punches, quick straight punches. We, you know, we were planning on taking our time and trying to put it up against a cage and

negate his link a little bit. And, I mean, we felt like I had an advantage once I got a hold of him. And, I mean, I feel like I handled his link very well. I mean, technically, I guess I had longer arms, but I handled the range very well. And, I mean, I couldn't have asked for a better performance. And then dropped them and then got a hold of his neck. And that's all she wrote. So this wasn't like a typical day notice fight.

Like you were in great shape. Like you were ready to go 15 if he needed to. Well, I mean, I just went 25 like two weeks ago. Yeah. You know, like whatever. Let's go. What was going through your mind when you felt them tap? Like, can you even put that into words?

Like what? Especially looking at your bank account. like getting a tap like that? What was that like? A, I had a lot more kill left in the tank. You know what I mean? Like, I wasn't ready.

Like, when I got done, I just like stared like me mugged James. We just stared at each other. It was just like nobody else in the room. But me and him, it was just like, kind of like, I don't know. It's just like the killer is just like fucking meadugging, you know? And then finally like I get done.

And, oh, oh, man. just amazing. You smiled, you roared like the rest of your team. You spoke to Michael Bisbing after the fact. You used the comb. It was really cool. And you mentioned Grant Dawson, how important he's been to you. You had a moment with him right after that interview.

You guys just hugged it out. And it seemed like he was very emotional. And it seemed like you were kind of emotional too. Like, did you just kind of let it out in that moment? Because not many people, yeah, not many people see their dreams come true in that fashion. You did. Like, what was that like for you and Grant afterwards? Because, I mean, here's a guy that I've interviewed for years.

He's been singing your praises every single time I talk to him. Man, I mean, 100% I am here because of Grant. Like, I know I have a lot of skill and I've done a lot of training and everything. But in the last year working like pretty much solely with Grant, I have, my skill level has gone up exponentially. I've gotten so much better. And going with him really gave me the confidence to be like, hey, man, like I am, I am good enough to keep this up.

that kid will 100% be a champion. He is phenomenal. And, man, I'm so happy to be along on his ride. And I'm happy he's along on mine. I think Dana White may be your biggest fan out of everybody right now. You blew him away. And if there's one guy you want to blow away, it's that guy. What did he say to you when you walk by him after the win?

You know, the big risk takers are the ones who get rewarded. You know, yeah, obviously. obviously I'm pretty happy about it. I told him that I loved him and I've been waiting to do that for him forever. Are you even thinking about the next move right now? Like I assume with the momentum you have, the UFC's going to try to turn you around pretty quickly,

but are you even thinking about that right now? Are you still trying to like smell the roses from this one, which would be completely understandable? Yeah, totally. I mean, I've been in the gym. I've trained like three times this week already. You know, James. is he's cornering somebody for Contender Series tonight.

He's cornered somebody on Saturday for Derek Minner is fighting on Saturday. And he'll be back in the gym on Monday and then we'll get together and talk business then. Yeah, I mean, obviously I'll fight anybody anytime, anywhere. I feel like I'm in a pretty good situation right now. I don't necessarily have to take a fight. But if something's right, let's go. What a moment for you and Gloria. I mean, you go from $64 to $70,000, $64 after that bonus check eventually clears.

Just an incredible story. But what's the message for everybody who, you know, maybe in your shoes right now, like for those who believed in you, for those who stopped believing in you, for those who thought that you were just living this crazy pipe dream for James, Grant and company? Like, what do you want to say to all these people that have in some way, whether positively or negatively, impacted this story for you? I just feel like, you know, there's this lyric that just says, like, I had no choice. I had to prove I made the right decision. And, you know what I mean? I kind of feel like that, you know, like, this has always been the outcome like I needed to live to be happy with my life. You know, like the road I've taken everything all this time, like this is the only thing that I would be satisfied with.

and man am I satisfied so you know I don't care if you like me hell yet keep riding if you don't kick rocks let's go congratulations man like this is one of the best stories of the year without a doubt I couldn't be happy for you I couldn't have written it better I couldn't have written it any better it's just amazing you know yeah this is a 30 for 30 someday Kevin Cruz debut in the UFC but man five years went by and now you know both of us stuck with what we wanted to do. We went through the grinder. We made our dreams come true.

So this is just such an inspiring story. You know. Let's go. Exactly. Oh, one more thing. We'll change gears real quick just because a huge fight coming up on Saturday. We got Covington versus Woodley. It's a big one.

Who do you like in that one? Man, obviously, I like both of them as athletes. They're amazing. To be honest, I kind of went Covington to win. You know, like his whole day, like, whether you like him or hate him, he's an amazing fighter. And, like, his shit's entertaining. You know, he's so stupid and, like, he's so outrageous.

Like, he makes me laugh. And, like, I get that he's annoying and he, like, also annoys the shit out of me. However, like, he talks so much trash. And he's a savage. He goes in there and handles business. So I really kind of want him to win for just the entertainment level of the sport, you know what I mean? But obviously, you know, Tyron's the man, you know, so, you know, I mean, he's got a, he's got a big,

a big mountain ahead of him, for sure. So you think Colby's going to win? You like to say it, but yeah, I kind of want him to, unfortunately. All right. I mean, it's one, it's one thing to want him to, but it's, you know, maybe you want him to win, but then you think Tyron wins. I mean, yeah, for sure. I mean, a skill level, it's really hard to beat Tyron, you know.

it's really hard and you know I don't think Covington has the power I mean maybe if you can stay away from you know Tyrons power maybe maybe you can outpoint them and stay on the outside I don't know man it's going to be a great fight I'm excited for sure all right

fair enough thank you again Kevin all the best to you look forward to seeing you again man thank you man thank you so much honestly it's it's just such an incredible story right there I'll be honest a couple weeks ago when I had found out and then confirmed that Kevin Krum

was getting the call to replace Giga Chikatei to fight Alex Kisaris a couple weeks ago, I did a double take. I was blown away. I couldn't believe it. I was like Kevin Kroom, holy crap. I haven't fallen this guy for so long. I can't believe this is happening.

But he got there, he made it happen, gets a finish, gets a bonus. Dana White loves the guy. This is what this sport is. all about. This is why I got into the sport to begin with for stories like this. So congratulations to the hard-hidden hillbilly, Kevin Krum. What a cool relationship he has formed with the likes of James Krause with Grant Dawson and the team over at Glory MMA. They're really starting to make some big strides in 2020. Just an unbelievable story. I mean, it really is. As we go from

one Kevin to another, because Kevin Holland returns to the program. He's going to take on Darren Stewart at this Saturday. I'm going to preface this before we get right into this. We had a time scheduled. It took about five minutes into this conversation to realize that he was on the shuttle heading to the UFC Apex, I would assume. And not only was he on the shuttle, but half the freaking fight car was on the shuttle as well. So he has a mask on, which the story behind the mask he is wearing is pretty fantastic.

I'm just going to let him tell you. Here it is. Kevin Holland joining us on what the heck. All right, so it's become somewhat of a tradition during this crazy era of UFC. Yeah. It is a tradition. We always do this.

This is what we do. Yes, absolutely. We speak with this man. Kevin Holland, while he's in Las Vegas during Fight Week, it worked from the last time. Got a great finish over Joachim Buckley. And now he's going to take on Darren Stewart this Saturday at UFC Vegas 11.

The Trailblazer is back on the show. How are you, man? I'm doing good. How about you? I'm doing great. A quick tidbit before we get into this thing. A couple weeks ago, I spoke with OSP in similar fashion on his recent fight week, and you guys are both managed by the great Orn Hodak.

And when you do these Skype interviews, you all share the same account. So I'm getting ready to call OSP, and I hear a voice, and I'm like, hmm, this doesn't sound like OSP. And then the video image showed up, and it's you shopping at the mall. Like, I know it wasn't anyone's fault, per se, but. I actually felt pretty bad about it, Kevin, but here we are a couple weeks later, and now it's your turn to fight. Hey, man, I thought it was funny, man.

It was perfect timing. I just answered the phone. I thought it was a regular phone call. I answered it. It's my man here, you know what I mean? So, nothing wrong with that. Did you get anything good at the mall during that trip anyways? Man, I probably bought like 10 pairs of shoes, bro.

I got a lot of shoes, man. I got a lot of shoes, man. Well, it was for me, the kid, the old lady, whoever, man. They all want shoes. You get shoes. We shoe fiends around here. So you're riding some pretty damn good momentum right now, Kevin. You had the setback in Boston with Brennan Allen,

but now you bounce back, back to back wins, back to back finishes. And I feel like you're on the cusp of like breaking that wall down. Like it's right there for you. And now you get a matchup with a guy like Darren Stewart. Do you feel like this is the kind of matchup that gets you from close to getting over that hump? At the most, but it was just something. No, man, no. I think Marvin Vittori will be getting over that hump.

When I smack that clown, that'll be getting over that hump. Stewart, Stuart's a good guy, great guy, man. I called him out a while back, but I didn't realize how cool he was. Now I realized how cool he was. We were going there and have a good time, man. You know what I mean? Put the Smack Man thing down and then, you know, Maine, if you want to get something to drink after we can.

But Stewart, we're just going to go on there and have a good time. It's about Vaturi. It's still about Vatari. Don't forget. It's about Votory. I do remember that. By the way, since, I mean, you're in Vegas right now, you're cutting Wade, you got people around you, so that's why you wearing the mask right now.

So for the commenters to say, oh, why is you wearing a freaking mask? That's why? What is on your mask? There's some combat sports action going on. What is this mask? That's that Smack Man Central. That's the last one right there. You see that guy right there?

His heads turned sideways and stuff. That's me smacking Buckley right there. That's what we got right there. Wow. Where did you get that made? My grandpa actually made it. He hated Buckley so much for running his mouth so much. He made one of these.

He said, Buckley's the new image of the. the smack man. So, you know, sorry, Buckley. I still got that baby blanket for you, though, Buckle. Wow. So, I mean, the last two fights have obviously had great results. They were approached kind of in different ways. Like, the Anthony Hernandez fight ended super fast, but it was kind of all business. You didn't get the chance to really talk at all. The Joaquin Buckley fight, a lot more talking, more of what we're used to seeing from you, but it was also kind of a calculated approach at the same time. It was a nice balance between the trash talking Kevin Holland and the guy that that finished Anthony Hernandez. That's a lot. That's a lot of you. That's a lot of

how I saw it. Am I in the ballpark with how you looked at it? Yeah, yeah, you're definitely in the ballpark. So Anthony Hernandez fight, I would love to talk, but it finished so quick that I didn't have an opportunity, you know what I mean? The Buckley fight, everybody kept asking, you know, can they get some big mouth

with the pandemic going on? They wanted to hear some snap talking with no crowd, and Buckley made me want to smack talk. He had little things to say before the fight, leading up to the fight, you know, a little bit of time that we had. He thought he was big mouth, so I had to show him, You know what I mean?

When we got in there, who the real talker is. You know what I mean? We don't just talk. We walk to walk. You know, so we do what we do. What did he say that got you so fired up? You know what, man? What he said is nothing that I want to say again while we're doing an interview.

You know, if you ask me after an interview, I can let you know. But, you just, you know, he just ran his mouth too much, man. He thought he was the big guy. He was a small guy. He was the little man. A little man with a big chest. What was your favorite moment of that fight outside of the finish? from like maybe saying a certain thing

and then landing a shot, what was your favorite part? You know what? When I, when I, the first right hand that dropped them, uh, that was my favorite one

because I kind of like grabbed my lip like, oh, did you hit me? And then I kind of like lifted my left hand and shot the right and he dropped off it and I was like,

woohoo, that's smooth. You know what I mean? I was got a James Brown movie going on there. Who started moonwalking this year? I was actually in a room watching the fight by myself

and when you dropped him the first time, I actually got out, out of my chair and I screamed, and my wife texted me who was trying to go to sleep. And she was like, what the hell are you doing downstairs? I'm like, nasty knockdown, nasty knockdown. I couldn't believe it didn't finish the fight.

But you did get yourself a nice fat performance bonus in that fight with Joaquin. Extra 50 Gs in your bank account. I mean, you've been in the conversation a few times, but to actually get it, that must have been pretty nice. You know what, man, it was pretty dope. I thought I was going to get it on the fight before that, you know what I mean, with the fast sentence.

But getting it that time around it, I mean, I'm happy for it. regardless extra 50K. I had some taxes I had to pay anyway, so that's what that goes toward to. Yeah. So nothing lavish. I mean, some shoes and some taxes.

I mean, the shoes are going to happen regardless of taxes. Now, that needed to happen. It's nice to see you getting creative these days with your fight announcements, Kevin. Like, I heard that you end up here. What are we got? What are we got? No, I was going to say, you know. Oh, what's going on, man?

How are you? He's doing good. We got a big crowd here. This is great. A little bit of pressure on all my care. My interview would have to fight card right now if you want to. Oh, who else we got that? Who else we got in there?

Oh, what's going on? It got the energy. This is exclusive central. You guys, remember, there ain't no crowd. So the fight announcement here, because I had actually heard that you and Darren was all but done, but nobody on either side was biting. That's the crappy part of the job. You get to reach out and try to confirm these things.

But I would learn to understand why I couldn't get a confirmation. from your side because you had this fun video ready to go, the dentist video on your social media to announce this fight. Like, how did this idea come to be and what's sort of inspiring you to get a little more creative here? Man, it was like, I kind of always wanted to do something creative like that. And then Warren was like, yeah, let's do it, let's do it. And then he had the dentist buddy, my buddy just now, I'm sorry, knew the dentist guy. So everybody knew him, you know what I mean? So it just worked out perfect. It worked out smooth, man. I'll have to do stuff like that more often, though, almost like doing a little music video before the fight, you know what I mean?

Did you feel like this was going to be the fight? Because you guys both fought on the last card. You both got bonuses on the same card. Did you feel like this was going to be the fight? Nah, man. I honestly thought I was going to get somebody else, man. Honestly, was leaning towards the Andrew Sanchez fight. He had a really good performance and stuff like that.

But everybody had a good performance. So, you know, whoever they give you is who they give you. Whoever wants to smoke will blaze it up. How do you like the matchup with Darren from like an X's and O's perspective? Because, you know, he's a guy that when he came into the UFC, he would stand in front of you and swing them bolos until one guy fell. These days, much more patient approach, more methodical, sees things a little bit differently that he did in the past.

You've obviously grown as a fighter as well, but how do you like this one from a stylistic perspective? I mean, Charles Bird, a local guy, was kind of like touching him up when they were in Texas fighting, and then I don't know where he got the knockout. So, I mean, obviously the dude hits hard. But, I mean, fights a fight. I don't care how he comes in there. I'm coming in there.

I'm throwing my right. I'm throwing my left. I'm throwing my left kick, throwing my right kick. You know what I mean? And if he handles all that, I'm kicking him in the balls, taking him down and subbing him.

You know what I mean? We don't need any more ball shots, Kevin. We've seen too many of the last week. Hey, as long as I'm delivering them this time, it's all good. The odds have you a little over a two-to-one favorite to win this fight at last check.

And it's funny because there are a lot of people that view you as this newcomer prospect kind of a fighter, but you've actually been in this game for a while. Like, Darren. This is going to be your 24th professional fight. Do you feel that there are some folks in this small bubble of ours that kind of overlook your experience a bit?

I think he has more UFC fights than me, though. So you know what I mean? It's still two totally different ball games, but I have been the Belator. I have been King of the Cage. I have been... Yeah, you know what? I do got the experience. You're right. You are right. You're making me more confident as we go on. See, this is why we do these interviews. You make me a better man. What's what we try to do, Kevin?

There are many people that say, Kevin, and I kind of agree with this, that this is the best non-paper-view main card of 2020 and some say it's one of the best in UFC history you and Darren are going to be kicking it off before it wraps up with Colby and Tyron does it kind of give you a sense of pride at all that you're a big part of an event like this?

I'm a small part of the event like this. You got Donald Cowboys Surrounding on the card. You know what I mean? Nico Price is on the card. You got freaking Tyrone Woodley, ex-champ on the card. You got a lot of guys on the card. I'm just a little smidget. I'm just happy to be there.

But there's something to be said about being the first fight on a main card like this. You're there for a reason. You're the table setter. Well, they don't make the table fall. We're good. You know what I mean? Who do you like in that fight between Covington and Woodley?

Who do you think wins that one? Willie didn't let his hands go lately, but Dean Thomas is right behind me, so we got Willie. We got Willie. What you're talking about? I got to see the overhead shot. I can see it. I heard, now I hear Dean Thomas, and I'm like, oh, man, I got to choose my words.

I don't even know why you would ask me that right now. You could have called me back in like 30 minutes. I still would say it said Woodley, though. Is Shamiyev on that bus too? I ain't even say who else is on the bus. I'm just going to start being quiet now. Being back there, I'm scared a little bit now. I'm overly sweating.

Droving bullets around here now. Yeah, now we're bringing the heat. We're bringing the heat into Vegas. We need some of it here in Massachusetts. It's cold here. So bringing some of that here. Well, let's... It's out there, too.

Yes. Yes. Yes. So, yes. Shami is fighting a former opponent of yours. and Gerald Mearshaard. Because, I mean, the UFC's strapping the raucous to Shemaiah. Oh, wait.

What do you think of this? We're talking about that. One guy, everybody's in love with it right now. Yeah, they already have his next fight book with Damien Maya. Yeah, yeah. Let's go on the other conversation. All right, fair enough. He got enough attention as it is.

All right. Before these fights happened, you're going to fight Darren Stewart. How do you steal the show here? How do you steal some of that shine for yourself on Saturday night? Second round, ground, and pound. That's the finish. That's how I win. Second round and pound and pound.

So, but before you let you go, I know you got a million things going on, but you did mention your old friend, Marvin Vittori. Looks like he's having a hard time getting a fight. He wants to fight Chris Wyatman. He doesn't call me. That's the problem. He doesn't call me. He doesn't want to fight him. Call me.

I'll fight him. But now you got newcomer Impa Kasang and I coming in. Looks like he's got his attention a little bit. What do you make of this? And if all goes well, I assume this is direction you're going to go. You're going to spit some fire if all goes the way you think it well? Yeah, I'm definitely. Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I don't look confused on the whole situation, you know. All I know is, win, lose, bro. I want that guy, you know. It doesn't matter. You want to make a new face mask. He ran his mouth in Florida. I just want to fight him.

You know, it's a little personal. We got a relationship going on now. You know what I mean? We're going to hold hands, walk through the mall after. It's okay. All right. So we just want to get this one out of the way and we can move on with our lives. Yeah, I just want to go to Victoria.

Yeah. Okay. I broke out would be the wrong way. I just can't get over it, you know. Great stuff from Kevin Holland. Just a crazy interview. But a big fight for him this Saturday night

against Aaron Stewart. Always appreciate catch it up with the Trailblazer. Next weekend, everyone's talking about UFC 253 goes on on Fight Island. We got the two title fights. We got Addisania versus Costa for the middleweight title. Dana White says it's going to be the best fight of the year. We got Reyes v. Blahovich for the vacant light heavyweight title.

But right before that, Do not sleep on the flyweight fight between our next guest, Brandon Royval. He's going to take on Kai Kar France. This fight is ridiculous at 125 pounds. So let us check in with the former LFA flyweight champion. And now the number 10 ranked flyweight in the world, Brandon Royval. All right, back of the show is Brandon Royval. He's got himself a big one at 125 pounds.

He takes on Kai Kar, France, on the main card of UFC 253 next Saturday, on Fight Island. Brandon the world traveler, Roy Vell is here. How are you, sir? Evidently so, man. I haven't even traveled anywhere before, but I'm so excited to be going to Abu Dhabi. But I'm doing good, man. How are you doing? I'm doing great. I guess my first question is, how has your first training camp been as a full-time fighter? I mean, you gave your notice after the debut win over Tim Elliott. How has that all been going? It's like the greatest thing ever, man. I can't believe it. Yeah, it's so great, man. Just wake up and just wake up and just work man it's great do whatever i want to do in between times and i don't know man it's like a dream

come true and you get to take naps and actually get like a full night of sleep this is this is new for you right full night and sleep man i don't take i don't think i take much naps but uh full night of sleep is enough man well the nap option is there if you want it yeah exactly it's an option it's there you know it's crazy man coming off the win over a guy like tim elliott although you weren't overly thrilled with your performance. The UFC obviously sees something to you to book you a fight like this for your sophomore appearance. When you got the contract, if you saw

Kai Kar-France on the other side, how did you react to that? Oh, man, that was like the coolest thing ever. And that's how it feels too, because, like, I don't know, like, a lot of it's, like, probably happen chance and too, but, like, it just feels like the UFC trusts me a little bit, too. And I don't know, I know that's a little bit

probably more in my head than anything, but I just, like I said, it's just a great opportunity and I couldn't be any happy. And the Kaikara France is like, what gets you up out of bed more than a big name like that, especially as like a UFC, my second fight in the UFC, man.

What's interesting is that you agreed to this fight before things started really coming together. You were in Vegas and now you're in Abu Dhabi, and then the fight started to come together. You're on this massive card because you're actually going to be leading into two world title fights, one between Dominic Grace and Jan Blahovic

and then headlining this event is Israel Adisina against Paul. Costa. I mean, that's pretty damn cool, right, for your second fight? Oh, right? Yeah, no, exactly. For me, man, like, I don't know. I'd be watching this fight, be on pay-per-view, watching all of it, too. So, like, the fact that I could be a part of it is amazing, you know? You use the word happenstance, and I feel like it's a perfect word to kind of describe when you got into the UFC, because you came in this division at a perfect time, because, like, we have a new champion who's getting ready to fight Cody Garbrand in November.

we get Alex Perez and Brandon Moreno about to fight on that same card in November. And there's a lot of hype around guys like Asker Ascaroff, Manel Capes about to make his debut at some point in 2020. You're getting this big fight on a huge card. Like the timing is really good, is it not? Yeah, it's the best, man. And like the Flyway Division is not like a boring division anymore, man. The Flyweight Division is really exciting. And I've never personally thought the Flyweight Division is boring.

And I think you probably are like the same where you've always kind of been a fan of the Flyweight Division. but you can't argue that the flyweight division is boring, man. You see Asker, Ascroft and Pantosia put on a great show. Pantosia and Matt Snell put on a great show. And like, every time we see a flybade out there, they're out there putting performances, including Benavitas and figure out, figure out whatever the fuck his name is. And then did you get to work with Alex Bres for training for this fight?

Like, how's that? He was in town just checking out Factory X and checking out Denver and just training with us a little bit. bit. And yeah, I got to work with him, man. That was really cool. It was a good opportunity to brush shoulders with him and, like, just work with him, man, just pick his brain a little bit and just, you know, learn from one of the best. Did I see that young Alex Hernandez is at factory as or was for a while? How did that happen? Alex Hernandez is going to be in my corner, bro. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah. He's cool as shit, man. You know, Alex Hernandez, like, I guess, like, just seeing him on TV,

like I didn't know like how mean him like when he when I heard he's coming over I'm like I don't know how this dude's gonna be like you know but he's so cool like I couldn't even believe how cool and like how chill he is and just how funny and all that stuff man um he came into like after like just the week after my fight he came and trained with us and uh just kind of like just checking out gyms man I think he's just looking for like he doesn't have like he never had a head of coach before which is like crazy because he's so he's so good and he went so far and sprue without having like like he do jihitsu and he'd run his own camps and all that stuff and it's out of it's out of it. I had a lot of know, man. I just forget how blessed I am since being a factory X fighter that I've always kind of had like a great coach and just know what's going on like have game plans and all this great stuff. And he's been doing this all by himself and it's kind of crazy. Now he's with the team and he has actual training partners and stuff like I can't wait to see where his crew goes. I don't I think the reason why he came to our gym though is because he's managed by this guy named Jason House and Jason House who was my manager and managed a lot of us Factory X guys. Him and my coach like I think Jason House is really huge on my coach, Mark Montoya, and he said, all right, well, man, like, you need to go to, like, a gym.

So he was checking out a few gyms. And then Jason told him to come check out our gym. And then he just came back and he's just stuck and moved out to Colorado. So Alex Hernandez is not only like a full-time, like not only a fact-jerk fighter. He's a full-time fact-jerk fighter. He lives in Colorado and he's about to be in my corner for this fight too. So it's great, man. It's great to have him.

He's a wizard, man. It's another dude who's bright I can pick, who I make corner me on. on Fridays when we spa and all this stuff too. How many new words have you learned from him? Because he speaks in such crazy vernacular and vocabulary. All these new words that when I interview him, like my brain is full of like new vocabulary words. Right.

He must just be Googling and stuff. He's not that smart around us. No, I'm just playing. He must be chill with a dictionary in front of him because I don't believe that. All right. He's been boxing with me, a lot of CTE and head damage, you know.

I'll make sure. I'll make sure. With that raw dog power. I mean, this fight is awesome coming up for you next Saturday. I mean, Kai's got a ton of experience. He's four and one of the UFC. One loss was to Brandon Moreno in a super fun fight. Stylistically, we got two high paces getting ready to collide.

This one is right up your alley, fair to say? Yeah, this one's where I'm making 50 Gs, baby. I'm going to make some extra cash. I'm trying to make money and get the hell out of the sport and move on with my life. But, yeah, man, this is a great fight, man. this is great. Right after, right after, like, it took me a little bit late, like, to start thinking about, like, where I'd go right after I'd fight, um, Kim Alliot. And like, like, it was like the week up, some, like, some dude interviewed him was like, well, if you win this fight,

where do you see yourself fighting next or who do you want to see next? Especially if you're, like, can go up, like, up in rankings. And I was, like, trying to think. And I was, like, looking at who maybe, like, would be a good call out or who would be, like, a good, if anybody asked me, like, who I'd be keeping my eyes out on, you know? I thought Kai Kar-Francy would be the best matchup because we weren't too far from like rankings with each other if i if i won that came out fight so and then i just thought he was just a good matchup man i like the matchup i like his style i'm a huge fan of kai kara france honestly so being able to fight him and being able to already have like so much knowledge on him and watched him so many times is great i think your your boy

yusel just try to creep in here and then he was like oh snap something's happening but he just he just beat it what a year he's having huh yeah oh my god that follows it's gonna be after he fights it because I'm going to stay out in Abu Dhabi and stay in his corner too. And, yeah, me, Alex and I are going to be out there for like a month. But, and coach. But, uh, and then I'm sure he's in a fight the next month too. So, you know, Yusuf, just popping him off, man. And I was like, so when he, uh, when he started that fight, man, we're just going so

crazy. I don't know. You said with that bad kick. Oh my God. That fight was, man. Yeah, right. It's so great. He's, he's definitely the future of the 145 division.

And, uh, if he decides to draw. barf he stays at that weight class whatever he wants man that kid's the future of the sport he's so amazing and i don't like you guys you guys get to see like a very little of it and what the little that you guys do see it's so spectacular but i get to watch this kid every day and he does so many amazing things like i don't know it's just great he's motivational and uh made a lot of sacrifice to be where he's at but like i i wholeheartedly believe that kid's going to be a world champion and just going to be world renowned name and all that stuff because he really is the future He just turned 24 last month and 4 and 0 in the UFC.

He's about to be 4 and O in the UFC. And like I said, man, arguably hasn't even touched. Like he did such a great job, man. I love it. Yeah, and he's been through so many different fights where he's been through, like, decision wins where he just cruised the entire time. He's had fights where he's had like those grinding fights with Jordan Griffin. And then his last fight, he had to kind of go through,

I can't believe I didn't knock this guy out to trying to take on a really gritty, tough guy who just wouldn't go away. So he's experienced kind of like the highs and lows of everything at this point already. Yeah, man. I mean, just so young in his career, man, nearly getting the start of this kid. This kid's right now, we just finished practice. He's over here doing a private for some dude, kickboxing private. And like a little bit of making money, but like what you don't see making money wise is you don't see making money wise is he's over here getting this practice.

And like just seeing other people making other people better. And that makes you better in return, man. He's over here investing. He's in our corner. He's over here helping us get better. And in return, it's all helping him too, man. So it's great to have him out there. He's a selfless teammate.

And you can just see his improvements every time he steps in that cage. And he's 24 years old, man, just turned 24. That kid's the future of the sport for sure, man. And he's officially the loudest quarterman in UFC history. Right. That's what I was in my car. And like, the sun was in my eyes a little bit. And I'm like, should, I can go inside.

You can hear you said over the phone the whole time, time, too. but yeah it's so funny after a cornered devonte everybody I tweet whose devonthe is annoying corner I was laughing so hard I'm like yeah that's what you have to deal with every day when it comes to this fight I mean you've watched kai so many times over the years you know you kind of expected this fight to come at some point where do you see your advantage is lying in this one because you know most of his finishes have been knockouts or tkos he does have one submission on his resume as I believe but you know many look at this

fight and the narrative surrounding it is that he has the advantage on the feet you have the advantage on the mat do you feel the same um i bet you any money his submission he dropped some dude and then like submitted him i was about to knock him out or something too i'm i'm curious to see what that submission is but uh for my corner like my corner like my corner's usually break down stuff and like give me a game plan on how to go about things and uh this time they told me to just have fun i'm better than him everywhere and i honestly believe that too i think i'm i think i beat him everywhere I think he's good. I think he's a good technical kickboxing striker.

And I think if it hits the mat, I obviously have the big advantage. That being said is I don't think I've ever seen Kai Kar Francis' ground game, man. He's so good at keeping it. He gives a 90% take-down defense in UFC, man. So you don't get to see his ground game. I know he's like a black belt and it goes to the ground. He jumps guard and triangles me or some crazy shit. But I assume I have a huge advantage on the ground.

And as far as striking goes, I think I'm just way more creative than him. I think he has a very much, like, he has a huge bomb, sets up that right hand perfectly, and he does a lot of great things technically. And just like what you want to see in any kickboxing fighter, but he doesn't like, like I fight, like I fight, like, different, man. I have like a style. I fight with swagger and stuff. And I fight a little off rhythm.

And like I said, he fights very much on a rhythm and which is good. He fights super technical. And that's how you want every kickboxing. like if I'm teaching a kid kickboxing, I want to fight like Kikara France, but you definitely need a little bit more of that like creativity to him. I think that's where I, where I stride and where I can capitalize on him. Do you feel like in a weird way because this card is so massive?

And Dana White's putting a lot of emphasis on it. You see the promos and stuff like that. Do you feel in a way, and I don't even know if you feel this kind of pressure or maybe it excites you in a way? Do you feel like you're representing the entire division here? Like this is, you know, on this massive spot right before the two title fights. This is a chance to be like, hey, for all you naysayers about this division, watch this.

This is going to be ridiculous. I think I always carry a little bit of that weight on my shoulders, but I think that naturally comes from me. I don't think I have to go out there and be exciting, especially against a guy like high car France, is not anything I have to worry about. That's going to come natural, man. I move forward. I don't necessarily like brawing. It's just something that happens.

But I have a little bit of a go-forward mentality and throw a lot of punches mentality, and I think that leads to exciting fight. fights and I think I'm an exciting fighter and I don't necessarily think I'm trying to represent the flyweight division but I do have that in the back of my head always like you want the flyways look good I think with the guy like high car France it's going to be no question this is going to be a good fight like I already know I already know I can't like my style versus his style it's going to lead to fucking exciting fight I think I'm out there to try to make a showcase for myself today I think I think that next week or two more weeks it's all about making a showcase for myself and making name for myself and creating a future from myself and a path to myself and

starting to get fans followers all this stuff that are going to enhance my future and make my future better you know what's kind of your mental approach like because the last time i talked to you i couldn't get it out of my head the way you approach fights as you're getting ready to fight like you said like i hate i hate this effing sport i don't want to be here and then like once you get in there it's like a whole new ball game what's it like at this point in the preparation like do you have those thoughts or does it happen like right before you get ready to make the walk? Um, at this point, man, like at this point at the beginning of practice, I looked at my teammate in like, I'm not in the beginning, like middle of practice.

We're like going over some stuff and like, I have a great teammate and you, we're talking about game plans and stuff. I don't, my coaches say have my way with them. This is a perfect fight for me, perfect matchup. But me and my teammates have been like me and one of my good teammates, Clay, have been coming up the game plan the whole entire time. But like in the middle of the day, I'm like, God damn, this fucking sucks. man like I don't know I love the sport so much and like I'll always be passionate I'll do martial

arts the day I die but like fighting is like anxiety struck man and like I'm over here I'm cutting weight I'm scrawny as fuck and I'm over here like drilling trying to like make these last minute improvements are just just stay sharp before I go out there and have this fight and I don't know like you like it's just it's a little hot like it gets you get in your head a little bit and like I always think of it as like this guy's like and like this is like and like this is this is just true. Like, I'm not trying to think of it. Like, people say that fighting's not personal. And like, I do, like, I'm sure if me and Kai Kar, France, we're in a room together. Like, he'd be the coolest motherfucker in the room for sure. Like, I remember him in the ultimate

fighter. He's so cool. But like, at this, this point's personal, man. It's super personal. He's trying to take my dreams away, man. Everything I've ever worked for. And, like, I always think about, I always think about that before I fight. And it's just, like, always anxiety struck. And, like, it turns into be a little bit fun. And this is, like, it's getting, I think it gets a little easier. Because when you're, when you're, when you're interviewing me for the LFA and stuff, It's like, what happens if I lose the LFA title fight, man? Do I go start over again and climb back to go fight for the LFA title fight and then try to get to the UFC or like, is it over?

You know what I'm saying? And like, that's an honest to God truth between some of those fights is like this could be a fight like a career ending fight, you know? And it's not necessarily like that way anymore. Like I'm fighting number six in the world. Like I can still make a quick bounce back, you know, or at the very least I'm still in the UFC making money and fighting the best in the world. And I think a little bit of anxiety is taken away just because we're,

where I'm at. But at the same time, it's also like, it's, and it's, it's taken away a little bit by like what I'm doing right now, too, is because I get nervous, but the same time I'm fighting on fucking pay-per-view and Adasania is up next, man. Like, like, that's the coolest shit I could when I, when I dreamed of doing this for when I was younger, it wasn't even like this. I was just trying to kick my brother's ass and getting advantage in high school. So I wasn't fucking walking around like a little like sissy, you know, or whatever. I wasn't like looking to get picked on or I didn't want to get punked or, you know, uh, I didn't expect to go this far, man. And the fact that is as far, I just, I keep shocking myself and, like, I want to win.

And I know I could beat some of these guys. And I know I could beat Kai Kar France. I know I have more skills to beat Kai Kar France. But if I win or when I win or whatever it is, I know, I'm going to be fucking shocked. And she's like, oh my God, my number fucking six or seven in the world right now. And like, it's cool because it keeps me like, I don't know, man. It just keeps me like, I don't know, like, I'm discovering something every day and I'm discovering more in myself. And like, it's weird because like you don't expect, like, you don't expect me. Like, I don't know. I guess maybe. maybe not you, but like I never really expected much for myself, you know, and like the fact that I'm over here exceeding my goals and my hard work is paying off. And like when I first started, I was like, I'm not the athletic. I'm not like the, but I'm like I'm tough. I know I could take an ass whooping and I know that I could work hard. And that was like my whole motivation. When I first started, uh, started training in me, I was like, I could outwork these guys and I could take an ass whooping. Like I'll get, I'll get good, you know. And like, it's just like it happened in years and years of just doing that and just, uh, and making these improvements. And I'm just, uh, and making these improvements.

working hard and it's finally paying off and like said it gets a little bit easier to make that walk out there for sure now that i'm like damn this is fucking cool man like there's a camera in my face at asani and paula coaster up next and like i don't know man like this is i have to like sit back a little bit realize that my dreams are kind of unfolding right around me you know and i'm not there but we're close man this is fucking like this is really close man like so i can feel it man And I can feel myself touching, like, just improving and being world class, you know. So you're accepting the fact that you belong here now because you didn't probably think that way before. Yeah.

And like you said, it's still hard for me to, like, believe. And I'm still like, what the fuck? I'm fighting Kikara France, you know? Like, and like, I don't know. It's still like a, like it still keeps me humble and shit. But like, yeah, I'm accepting it, man. And like, I'm training with world class. I'm training with Alex Hernandez.

And I'm training with Yusuf Salal. I'm training with fucking other studs that are going to be stars in the sport. you know what I'm saying and I'm training with other people that I trained with other like great people and like I'm just brushing shoulder with the best and like you get to realize how good you are you know and like you get to realize that damn these guys are like it's not that like we're all like I don't know we're all doing this together and I'm hanging around stars man and it's crazy and I don't know it's it's like weird to accept that this is my life you know are you taking like any time for yourself to sort of visualize that moment right before you walk out when you start to have those doubts and start questioning yourself like you're starting to think ahead here or are you taking the if it ain't broke don't fix it kind of approach to the to the mental side of the game um to me um to me i'm to me i'm anytime like i think i feel like i think about fighting too much and i think i try to step away from it more than anything because uh i feel like like sometimes i just get like in my head i'm over like i'll like meditate on it or i'll be thinking about it and this this and then i'm like all right well like maybe i should not think about it

relax a little bit and like kind of take a take a step outside of the sport for a second and like you know I'm saying and like I feel like maybe it's the other way where I need to work on it more is just stepping outside of the cage and just living life outside the cage a little bit too much too because I feel like everything in my life surrounds this fight and this next moment and getting better at MMA and everything's MMA you know yeah well now you have this extra free time in your hands normally you get to take that away from with working at the juvenile detention center now you don't have that anymore you got to find other ways to take your mind off the sport Yeah, and that's another thing is like, yeah, I'm doing a lot of other stuff to fill my activity and stuff.

Like why? What else you're doing? What's anything else? Well, I'm trying to get, I'm trying to, so you said you, I worked in that juvenile correction facility. It's just something I was really passionate about. I really like that. Like, it's a really cool job as much as I like hate it working. But I just hate it because I just didn't sleep, you know, and there's not enough hours and day to accomplish what I need to accomplish. But just trying to get back with a gang reformation and just stuff to like help keep kids out of again. There's a big gang problem and a big violence problem the last couple years in Denver. And just anyway, I can stay active in that is really what I'm trying to become a part of. And like I said, some of these kids, man, they have a lot of talent and like they just don't have belief in themselves.

And I even think like seeing some guy like me who's maybe not the most intelligent person or whatever it is, they're seeing, they saw me make sacrifices in the juby where like I was working around a full time and the schedule's working out. They flipped the schedule and it didn't work around my training. So I had to work overnights. And they realized I wasn't sleeping and like I talked to me about it. sleeping but like i was like hey i have a dream man i have something i got accomplished and they they got to see me step away and like maybe they can see that that sacrifice and hard work that if they make that they can do this too you know or not necessarily the sport but whatever you

know like whatever it has it have any of those kids that you worked with in the past have they like started training or anything like that you know did anyone come to factory exit but like brandon told me about it and not and not anyone training i don't know if it's the best idea to kind of like have them all over at like at the gym and stuff but like you know I just no not necessarily not training or anything um but it's something I've talked to about and I think it is a good pack it's good it's good for some of these kids to like release anger man and just like some of those kids can fight man that's another thing and like a lot of those kids can fight you like they're not stranger to fighting like those kids fight every day man so might as well get

good at it and like learn a discipline and uh maybe find a new path in life you know yeah make better decisions when those times come yeah because like and especially if you're a gang man fighting is inevitable they're fighting every day you know and If they're lucky, it's a fight, you know, otherwise they're getting shot at. And that's just a sad reality of what's going on with these kids these days. In Denver, every weekend, some kids getting shot or some kids dying. There's not drive by where it's 20-year-old, 18-year-olds. They're all 17-year-old kids, man, 13-year-olds and up, you know?

And it's super sad to see. And like I said, these are kids that I've worked with. I've seen a kid passed away this last weekend that I worked with for two years and got shot in his apartment. And that's a kid who I believed in and wholeheartedly new. you change the fucking world, man. That kid's a leader and meeting him butt heads constantly. And it was one of those situations where he was definitely a power struggle with that kid.

But like I still saw what he had, man. He had a great view. Like he could have done anything, man. There's a go-getter. And it sucks to see that. He went out and went right back to the gang life and his life ended because of it, you know. Sorry to hear that, man. That sucks.

And it's like, it happens, man. I think I've worked there for two years. And I've seen four kids that. all died, all gunshots, all gun violence. Well, you get a chance to motivate these kids and other kids around the world. How do you do with that next Saturday night heading into these title fights? How does this thing all play out with Kai Kar Franz? I think I'm just going to be too much for him.

I think I'm going to overwhelm him, and I think that he's going to fall right into my game plan and fall right into my traps, man. And if not, it's going to be a brawl. And if not, he's whoop my ass, then it's going to be a brawl. And that's the only way it's going to be bad. So how I do it is I'm going to go in there and just do me, man. go out there have fun and just try to find that flow state and just, you know, live it up in there, man. It's my dream. This is it, man. I can enjoy every moment of everything that's coming my way.

So I wanted to switch gears and get your take on something if I could before we let you go, because before you guys head to Abu Dhabi and we get Fight Week underway for UFC 253, this Saturday night is a huge card. We got the grudge match between Colby Covington and Tyron Woodley at the apex. What do you think, man? Who takes that one? Fuck, I think Colby takes it. I'm not hyped about it, but I think Kobe takes it. But yeah. He's just, he's one of those guys he puts on a quantity, man.

He's, like, and like I said, fuck, I hope Kobe takes it. I think we all know he's a good guy and all that. But he's just too much, man. He overwhelms people. He does a lot, man. He's good. He's a stud, wrestles. He's one of those guys that is a nightmare fight.

It's a nightmare matchup for me. Like, a guy like that is like, the absolute worst person that I want to fight because it's going to take you down, throw 100 punches. When you get up, you can throw two punches, go right back to a takedown. He's just a grinder, man. It's hard to fight guys like that. And do you know who's like that was Tim Allen. Tim Allen's just like that, man, a grinder instead of my fucking face. It's hard to get an offense going when you're on defense the whole time. And I think that's what's going to be. Excellent insight, my man. Always appreciate you jumping on. Great fight next weekend in a in a

primo spot, which is well deserved. I don't care what you tell yourself or anybody else. This is a great spot for you. And I wish you all the best on Fight Island. safe travels to Abu Dhabi, man. Hey, bro, I appreciate you. I appreciate you. Always doing these interviews with me, man. I get excited to talk to you every fight. It's like pre-fight ritual.

I'm going to talk to my keg, man. So I appreciate it, bro, man. We're growing in the sport together. You know what I'm saying? Oh, and just a quick shout out to, EAP Glass. Another thing is that to become a full-time fighter, I got a cool sponsor,

and it's a Glass Company, Denver, Ed, Ed, and Cyrus, man. They're looking out and they said their fight fans, and they reached out to me, man, and just sponsored me and helped me on a week-to-week basis. I couldn't have done any of this without them. Always a fun, open, and honest discussion with Brandon Royval. I mean, just one of the things that fascinates me about the sport is diving into the mindset of a fighter because it's pretty crazy.

I mean, it's pretty crazy. You get a guy like Brandon Royval who just wins a lot of fights and he's one of the top 25ers in the world. Like before he got to the UFC, one of the top. I was one of those guys singing his praises before I even started interviewing him. I knew how good he was. I knew he'd get there eventually. I couldn't believe they were going to put him on the contender series. But he got to skip that.

He fought Tim Elliott and here we are. And the fact that he's gone through spurts where he just never believed that he should be there, I just think that's awesome. I think that's so fascinating. It really do. But he seems to be getting better with that. And I can't wait for that fight with Kai Kar-France. but we have one more interview to go,

or we're going to sort of wrap things up here in Command Center 2.0 before that happens. Always appreciate everybody checking out all these shows on the MMAT Fighting.com family of podcast shows like this one between the links, A-side, on to the next one, preview and post shows. It means a lot, and we're going to keep plugging away. So as this drops, it is Thursday morning,

my man Jose Young's in Las Vegas. We will have the Colby Covington, Tartin Woodley, press conference later on today. Wayans tomorrow, preview show tomorrow, fights on Saturday. Ben Jose is on to Fight Island. So for those who keep asking,

where are your way in videos? Are you covering the way ins? We will be. You're getting them for the next several weeks. So don't you worry about that. But we're going to wrap things up by replaying by chat with Mike Roder Rodriguez and you all know what happened in that fight with Ed Herman by now this past Saturday

at UFC Vegas 10. But I got the chance to chat with him earlier this week for the show. We decided to drop it exclusively a few days early. But if you missed it, here it is. Enjoy. And as always, have a heck of a week, everybody. All right. So Saturday night had a lot of memorable moments in Las Vegas, some good, some really bad.

And the latter has to do with a main card. boat that took place in the 205 pound division featuring this man, Mike Rodriguez, who took on Ed Herman. It looked as if he finished the fight in the second round after a couple of brutal knees to the body. Unfortunately, referee Chris Tione thought he saw a low blow and it ended with Ed Herman picking up this crazy submission in the third round, but happy to be joined by Mike Rodriguez right now, less than 48 hours removed from that crazy turn of events. Hi, Mike. How are you, man? I'm good, man. I'm good. I'm good. I like the, the subtle shirt wearing with the diamond cup in the May shirt.

I had to drop it. I had to drop it. Nicely played, nicely played. But we'll get into the chaos in a moment, but I just want to say, I thought you looked outstanding in the fight on Saturday night. I'd say it was your best performance in the UFC,

no doubt about it. But on our preview show on Friday, one of the things I was intrigued about in this fight was because of Ed's durability, how things would look if it got, out of the first round into the second round, maybe in the third round. Second round, you look sensational. You look better in the second round that you did in the first round.

How did it feel to, I know the result didn't turn out the way you wanted, but how did it sort of feel to answer those questions about your cardio, the longevity of these fights? Because getting out of the first round, it seems like you were even getting even stronger as the fight went on. Yeah, I knew, well, first things first, like, we knew he was durable as hell. We knew that. I hit him with a shot.

I know I hit him with that elbow in the first round. So that I was playing in my mind that I really had hit him with that shot. So I'm like, all right, cool. Let's, when we're going to the second round, let's turn it up. So Mays, my boxing coach, he's always talk about going into that second gear as the rounds go on, going that second gear. So, you know, I just started putting the pressure on them. And I wanted, I don't know if I told you when I interviewed, but I wanted a second round finish. So, you know, I wanted to attack that body some more.

I did some damage to it already in the first round, and I just wanted to keep pressing on it in the second, and I thought I had the holy grail. I thought I hit it. I thought it was over in a second. Yeah, that was the whole game plan, and I just executed the game plan. Because you've been watching Ed compete for years and years.

You watch him in high school on the ultimate fighter, and you knew how tough he was. Were you even more surprised with his durability in the fight? Did it actually exceed your expectations? Yeah, there was one point I'm thinking of the fight. I'm like, holy hell. I hit this dude with everything. How was he still standing?

And he was still there, man. He was still there. But I just, then I kind of got in the mindset of like, like no offense to him, but like heavy bag, like just hitting the heavy bag. I just hit him.

Just hit him. Just place it there, place things there, place things there, place things there. And I just, that's how I just kept doing. It just kept. Because after that,

hit him with that elbow. I thought it could have been done there, honestly. But, nah, man, he was still in that place. I don't know how we recovered from that, but Let's just get addressed the elephant in the room

Let's get into the moments everybody wants to know about So Ed would surprise me about the fight Is Ed chose to spend a lot of time in the clinch Especially since your last fight went so well for you in the clinch But so for those who don't know I'm sure you all know by now But you have his back against the cage You're landing you land a pair of nasty knees to the body The second one drops him to the mat

and you're getting ready to finish the fight. And Chris Dione steps in to seemingly stop it. And you're getting ready to celebrate. And Chris calls time. And you question, you're like, time. What are you talking about? He says, he just yells out the word nuts. And Ed takes the allotted time.

What the hell is going on in your mind at this moment? I assume you're watching the replay over and over again like the rest of us. What is happening in your mind at this point? So, first of all, Tim, like, I'm a good sport. I don't want to be known as like a cheater or anything. So my team, one of my teammates, Ross Levine, we did rounds for the pretzional fight. And I hit him in that same exact way. And I hit him in the balls twice, back to back and sparring.

So I'm like, so I just instantly, when he said nuts, I instantly had a recap of that. And I'm like, oh, you know, yeah, it could have been. It could have been. And so I'm sitting back. I'm like, you know, my bad or whatever. Then something told him to look up at the screen because my corner was like, this is bullshit. And I'm like, all right, cool. at the screen. I'm like, oh, that was all liver. And then I like, at first I did get my emotions

involved in it that he was milking the clock, but then I was like, you know what? We got to fight. We're still fighting. Like they're giving them five minutes. You take this five minutes. You rest, calm your heart rate down and let's get back in there. So I just add to look at his that. Like the show must go on. Like, it's whatever, you know. Are you trying to talk to Chris at that moment? Are you saying, like, dude, are you watching this replay right now? Like, no, I didn't even say anything to him. I was just like, whatever, just keep moving. Like,

I'll worry about, I'm like, I'll let my management and coaches and stuff deal with that afterwards. I've got to be finished, I have finished head. So I was like, on my mind, it's finished him in that round. When there's a stop in the action like that, the can't be any coaching at all. And I know Joe is, Joe

Lozahn is a pretty calm, cool, collected guy most of the time, but he's your coach. I'm sure he's pretty irate. Steve Mays, as you mentioned, is in your I met Steve years and years ago when I was like 18 years old. I even went on Twitter. I'm like, I met Steve Mays. He must be losing his mind right now. Were they yelling at the referees?

They said something. I don't really remember. But all I remember the coach saying in return, like, hey, stop coaching. Stop coaching. They could have been prospect telling me something, like kick him there again or something. But yeah, it just, they just was like, this is bullshit. everybody was pissed about everybody Steve's got that baseball background too

so you know it must be covered him to like I even heard because when I stopped that Gisping was behind me I even heard this thing saying like oh Ed is milking this wall it's worth right now like you know but yeah that all sucked I mean Ed was badly hurt in that scenario

and even after the fight when he spoke with Bisbing he admitted that he was hurt but he even said like he didn't know whether it was a need of the body or to the, how should I say this gracefully, the testicular region. So I'm curious. Did you get where Ed was coming from? Like, do you respect what he did taking that time if he has the chance to recover or was there part of you that lost a little respect for him there?

No, I mean, they gave him the time. Like, I mean, if you're like, you know what I'm saying? He was like, hey, you know, take five, whatever and give him this five minutes. So I'm assuming he took it. He was like, all right. Yeah. Because we all knew it was like the beginning to the end and he was able to get 35 minutes from being finished off.

So he's like, oh, all right. Sick. So that's whatever. I mean, I thought you had it finish like right after that too. You landed a hard body kick like right away. You went back to the body. You drop him again. I thought it might have been a wrap there.

But he survives. And then he goes for the take down in the third round. You're landing that barrage of elbows a la Travis Brown. Like, what are you thinking about in these spots? because, I mean, this had to have been the most emotional roller coaster of a fight in your entire career. It had to have been, right? I mean, what are you thinking? So going into the third round, the reason why I got caught, but I came more is that I just wanted to finish him.

I'm like, I got to pour it on them. Put, like, I was good. My energy was great. Gas tank was good. I'm like, we're going to finish him right now. And so I just went out there and tried to put as much pressure on them and stuff like that. And what end up resolved me getting me finished. like a veteran move himself

like you know he put that Kimor in his pocket and grabbed it it was good but yeah I just that's what I want to do is finish him I want to be on that list

of guys I finished him so what he's when he first starts to work for the Camor are you just thinking to yourself there's no way he has the strength

to pull this off right now like there's just no way and then he did like that's just wild to watch I was yeah it was wild I'm like he's on nah

he can have it then he um what I was thinking about trying to do was I was going to post up on him while he was in that little crack of the cage and just start me in his body. And by time, like, the ADD mindset I got in here got hold of it. And I'm like, oh, yeah, let me get that.

It was too late. He had that Kimmerer bite on me. I was like, no. And I'm trying to fight it. And he just peeled it out and he got to sweep. And I just, I was kind of also like after the fight. I didn't even know this after. Like, I was like, come on, Ed.

Like, why would you do that to yourself? Like, he put his foot in the fence to get the sweep. And I'm like, dude, like, you did so good. Like, you got the win. Like, why would you do that? So that, like, kind of threw soul on his victory a little bit. I'm like, but this whatever. How is the arm?

Because I know Dana addressed it in the post-white press conference said that your arm was okay. That was, like, the one thing he was really worried about. It was like, a guy gets screwed out of a win and then he breaks his arm. I assume the arm's okay. Yeah, yeah, the arm's okay. I didn't, I could have must, like, strong man did, but I didn't want to break my shoulder at all. Like, I just didn't think the fight was even worth my shoulder getting broken.

So I'm like, you know what? Nah, go ahead. Because, you know, I want to fight soon, relatively soon, too. So I was like, all right, I'll let you have it. There you go. I'll admit, and I am supposed to be the unbiased journalist here. I was pissed on Saturday night. And not just because you're a New England guy like myself, I would have been pissed for anybody in that situation.

But it was just a heartbreaking thing to see. but the good news is the majority of the MMA community as fickle as it can be, everybody had your back. Even Dana White, slamming Chris Tione said it was Steve Mazagadi-like, one of the worst things he's ever seen. When I went into the back room and I saw a doctor, Dana was the first person I saw, the very first person. He was before in, before Joe, anybody else, he came in, boom.

So I was like, my head was down. The dog's check my shoulder. I'm like, man, it's, you know, it's whatever, but I looked up, Dana was right there. And he had this face, this red bee face. I'm like, and I had to, I'm like, did I do something? No, I didn't do anything. He was like, I am so pissed.

This is one of the worst referee and I ever seen. He just stopped going off on this tangent. I'm like, oh, all right. And then before I left, there was like, hey, he's still going to give you your win money. So it's like, oh, shit. Thank you. So, yeah. Does it kind of soften the blow a little bit having Dana's support and everybody else's support?

I mean, it sucks to have a loss next to your name right now, but does that at least make it feel a little bit better? The more thing that I'm more excited about that I'm happy about is that everybody saw me perform and everybody loved my performance. That was the one thing I really cared about. Everybody, like, I haven't heard a single that. Everybody's like, man, you was performing out of this world. He was on fire.

I even looked at my stats. I was like 70% accuracy rate, like something like that. It was ridiculous. And I was like, oh, feels pretty good. So, yeah. So immediately after. all this unfolds. I text your manager Tyson Chardier and I'm like,

what the F man? What was that all about? And he goes, we're appealing this thing. So after Dana comes out and speaks to the media and says they're going to give you his win money, I'm like, all right, well, at least he's getting his win money. He goes, yeah. I'm like, well, you're still going to appeal? And he said yes, because he wants to make sure that in essence, what he said was the rules are in force and

improved in the sport and that you shouldn't have to go like your topology page and see a loss next to your name. Are you happy with the fact that this is still getting appealed. And two, what are the chances that this gets overturned in your opinion? It's not like overturns haven't happened in the sport, but this is a pretty unique situation. I think if it does get, I think it'll become an NC.

Yeah. And if it does, it does. It's whatever. I'm just already like, I'm just past it. I'm ready to go and fight again. Like I'm already locked in my mind fight out. Like I'm here, my wife. She's like, oh, like, you're.

Why are you like pantsing around? I'm like, I'm still in fight week mode. Leave me alone. I'm still ready to fight. You know, so yeah, I just, I'm just trying to gear back up. So I'm going to do all the, all the medical procedures, check everything out, make sure I'm good. And then get right back to another camp, stop beefing again. Do you feel like you won?

Like, do you feel like you're sitting at home right now with the wind under your belt despite of what the record shows? Yes, that's the weird thing about it. It's like, I feel like I want. Like, I don't, like, you know, like, every fight I get those lost blues. didn't have them. Did not have them at all. I felt like amazing. I went back to the hotel and I was unpacking my stuff,

running around the hotel suite with a beer in my boxers. It was great. I was fine. That was good. What kind of beer did you go with? I mean, if you felt like a win, it's got to be a celebratory beer. It was a local brewery out there, like lamplight brewery or something like that. I don't remember the name of the bear.

I don't remember the name of the bear. It was pretty good. It was pretty good. But yeah, I was just hanging out. So one of the things I kept seeing on social media is like most people had your back and it seemed like the solution was to just run it back with Ed. Like would you even want to run it back with Ed?

Like I don't know how motivated you would be for that since you and many others felt that you dominated that fight. Would that even interest you? Not really. No. I wouldn't. I mean, I already beat him. I beat him, you know.

if like if like they if like my the bosses was asking like oh you want to rent it back to ed whatever or if it was like yo we think that would be a good matchup then yeah I'll do it for being a company guy but no I think I'm

over and done to it happened it happened but if you look at it he won which he did technically but technically he didn't so I don't know I'm just moving on from the whole situation so what are you looking at now is there anybody that sticks out to you that you want to get back in there and try to get

this taste out of your mouth? The only thing that sticks out to me is getting cleared by the doctor. That's my fight right now. So let me get cleared by him. Then we can start looking at potential matchups and stuff. Good to be home though, right? Oh yeah. It's really good to be home.

Patriots won. Cam Newton era has begun. Celtics getting ready to crush the heat. I mean, New England cartels got a lot of momentum. A lot of momentum. A lot of good things. A lot of good things. A lot of good things. My man Piva's fighting tomorrow. Randy's on Saturday. a lot of good things. Here we come.

Here comes New England. Mike, I appreciate you coming on and talking about this. I'm sure there's a million other things you'd rather be discussing right now than rehashing the chaos of Saturday night. But I guess to, I'm sure you're probably going to do more interviews about this, but what's sort of the message for everybody following Saturday night so you can start the process or at least continue the process of putting this all behind you and moving forward here? I would just say You know what happened It was an awkward moment in our sport We should just accept it

Just move right along Don't send Ed Herman No hate messages or anything Please don't He's a good dude All he did was get an opportunity He just capitalized on it That was it

But yeah That's it There you go Thanks Mike I wish we were Officially recapping a victory here Which I guess we kind of are In your opinion and most others but you looked fantastic in the fight

and best of luck to you in the appeal and for whatever's next for you, man. I appreciate it. Thank you, man. Thank you. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.