MMA Fighting - What the Heck: Episode 31 | Gegard Mousasi, Jake Hager, Miranda Maverick, Dustin Jacoby & Johnny Campbell

Episode Date: October 29, 2020

Check out episode 21 of What the Heck as MMA Fighting's Mike Heck speaks with Gegard Mousasi (9:47) ahead of his middleweight title fight against Douglas Lima at Thursday's Bellator 250 event. Miranda Maverick (26:10) recaps her first-round TKO win over Liana Jojua at UFC 254, talks her extremely busy schedule outside of fighting and more. Bellator heavyweight and AEW star Jake Hager (50:00) previews his Bellator 250 matchup with Brandon Calton, discusses how his pro wrestling life has changed with AEW, and Chris Jericho's place in wrestling history. Johnny Campbell (1:06:49) discusses nearly losing his ear in his most recent bout against Ary Farias at Taura MMA 10 this past Friday in Brazil, gives an update on how he's doing physically and when he aims to return. Finally, Dustin Jacoby (1:37:08) talks his first octagon fight in nearly nine years when he faces Justin Ledet this Saturday at UFC Vegas 12. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. This is What the Heck with Mike Heck on MMAfighting.com. Now, here is your host, Mike Heck. What the heck? To a brand new edition of What the Heck on MMA Fighting. I am Mike Heck. Hope you're all having a great week. Hoping you've all recovered from a storyline-filled UFC-254 event this past Saturday,

which was capped off by Habibir Magh. Madoff defending his lightweight title against Justin Gachi submits him in the second round, and then Habeemagamagamatov announces his retirement from the sport. And what a career this man has had. But listen, after the passing of his father, Abdulmanup, we knew this could be a possibility, but all the talks were around that very round 30 and O number. So it was kind of a surprise, but he did make a promise to his mom, and I believe he will stick to that, but certainly one of the greatest to ever step foot in the cage. He retires 29 and 0 as the

lightweight champion of the world. In his last three fights, I mean, what a ridiculous run that has been. Wins the title against Ally Aquinta after all that craziness of the UFC 223 fight week in Brooklyn. Then he goes on to finish Connor McGregor, finishes Dustin Porre, and then on Saturday submits and finishes the surging Justin Gachie. This is one of the best three-fight stretches you will ever see in our sport. And of course, the big conversation now, it's been widespread throughout the MMA community. We're back with the goat conversation.

There's pound for pound talk. And then there's the goat talk. And I know we talked about this a lot on between the links with Jed Mishu and Ann Walker. Go back and check that up. But to me, I haven't really waited on this. there's a difference between the pound for pound conversation and the goat conversation. And look, this is all so completely subjective because some people weigh things one way, others weigh things the other.

There's a lot of different ways to go about this conversation. Oh, there goes my computer. Let's mute that. So basically the question is, do I think he is the greatest fighter to step foot inside the cage or the UFC's hallowed? Octagon, he's right up there. At worst, he's top three in my opinion. But right now, right this second, in the UFC retirement aside, at this very moment as I speak to you all, Habib Narragam Adolf retires as the current pound for pound king. Right now, in the current landscape of the UFC, there is nobody better than Habib Naragam Adov. And that's the difference

between Goat and pound for pound, because goat, we look at, you know, the full career. And Habib's right up there. But when we look at numbers and math and statistics and all that stuff, I mean, who am I to say anything? There's certainly arguments for Habib being the greatest of all time. And if you told me that, I wouldn't fault you for that take in any way, shape, or form. Plus, just think about it. Like compared to John Jones, Anderson Silva, GSP, and others. Think about it this way. He had to wait an awful long time to fight for his title for reasons, quite frankly, that were outside of his control between injuries, the whole Connor McGregor thing. You know, they used him as a pawn to book McGregor versus Eddie Alvarez.

McGregor wins the title. Then he goes off and boxes Floyd Mayweather, and the title is vacated. And so Habib never got his opportunity. Had he gotten the opportunity a long time ago when many felt that he deserved that shot, he could have been championed for a long time. But again, that is outside of his control. arguably, you know, the goat conversation in the top three, he's there for sure. Where I put him, I don't have an answer for you.

Maybe that's like a weak way out. But as of right now, he absolutely retired as the best and most dominant fighter on the planet. Hands down, more dominant than Jones. As of right now, over Adasanya, over anybody on that list, if you go to the UFC rankings and see the top 15 pound for pound, Habib's up there at number one. And I don't agree with the UFC rankings and how they do different things, i.e. Leon Edwards, taking him out of the rankings so that he would sign to fight Hamzat Shemayev. I agree with this. Habib, as of right the second, the number one pound for pound fighter on the planet.

Either way, Habib is leaving on his own terms. And as on top in this sport as one can be. And for that, he should be celebrated. There's no need to argue about the goat and however you feel about the goat's conversations. I don't really care. Like I said, there's just so many variables to it, so many different people. so many different eras. It's all just so subjective. So rather than fight about it, you can have your opinion and that's fine. If my opinion isn't the same or, you know, Joe Schmo's opinion isn't the

same as yours, there's no need to fight them on that. That's just their opinion. That's how they view things. It's just like judging a fight. Like when it's a close fight and you judge it for one guy, somebody else might judge it for another guy for different reasons. Maybe they favor wrestling more. Maybe they favor striking. Maybe they, you know, favor control. It's up to each individual person decide what they favor over the others. But the way I look at it right now, it's time to congratulate Habim Mn Maghamedov on an incredible career. And now the lightweight title is one of the biggest stories to round out 2020 heading into 2021, although I would guess that they'll make the McGregor-Porey fight for the title on January 23rd should that fight get put together. But it's going to be very

interesting with Gachie still there, with Porier, Ferguson, Connor, even Charles Olivera. Now you got Michael Chandler in the mix. Lightweight is just fantastic. It has been for a while. And I feel like Banimweight has kind of like overshadowed it in a way is like the deepest division. But if it wasn't at the top of the discussion now in terms of like the deepest and most interesting divisions in the UFC and it's always been right up there in like the top

two or three, it's number one in terms of interest and intrigue right now. But we talked all about the goat stuff on between the link. So after you watch this, you can go back and watch that and let your opinions be heard if you so choose. But we have a lot to discuss this week as it pertains to UFC 254. Tonight's Bellator 250 event. And then we got UFC Vegas 12 going down this Saturday back in Las Vegas. No more Fight Island. So let's run down the lineup. We'll get to our first chat of the show. This is a who's who, a mixed bag, so to speak, of different organizations, different fighters, different stories. So wrapping us up. We're going to check it with Dustin Chikobi. He returns to the UFC

Octagon for the first time in almost a decade. He earned a contract on Dana White's Contender Series. He got his second chance. And now he's going to fight Justin Ledette this Saturday on Halloween. So we'll check in with Dustin Jacoby to wrap up this week's program. Before that, we're going to talk to Johnny Campbell. And if you're not familiar with the name Johnny Campbell in the MMA circles, if you're from New England, you definitely know who this man is. But you may be familiar with videos and images from this past. Friday night. So Johnny Campbell takes on Ari Ferreus for the interim Bannamweight title at Tora MMA 10 in Brazil and 25 seconds into the fight. It is stopped. Why? Because Johnny's ear

was detaching from his head. It was just a wild scene. I'm sure you've seen the photos by now or the videos. It's just a very unfortunate set of circumstances for a guy like Johnny Campbell who's been waiting all year for a fight. New England, M.A. regional scene has been pretty much non-existent. I know he's had some Bellator opportunities that fell through, just all sorts of craziness, but he took this fight on 13 days notice, goes from Massachusetts to Brazil, and it ends like that in 25 seconds. So Johnny's going to join us to talk about what happened there,

how he's doing and more. And I have to say, a refreshing take, refreshing, just way he's approaching this whole thing, despite all the unfortunate circumstances surrounding it. We're going to talk to Jake Hager, Bellator Heavyweight AEW wrestler. You may know him from his previous wrestling name, Jack Swagger from his WWE days.

He is back in the Bellator Cage tonight. He's going to take on Brandon Colton at Bellator 250. Of course, that card headline by Gaygard Musassi versus Douglas Lima for the vacant middleweight title. More on that fight in a moment. But Jake Hager makes his fourth walk to the Bellator cage. He's coming out that no contest. The groin strikes, the accidental groin strikes,

around a year or so ago. We'll check it with Jake a little later on before he headlines the Bellator 250 prelimbs later on tonight. One of the shining stars of UFC 254, Miranda Maverick will join us to recap her big win over a Leanna Jojuwa. Got a first round TKO, Dr. Stoppage win,

probably a premature stoppage. Even Miranda will attest to that. But at just 23 years old, I have to say, what a head on her shoulders, wise beyond her years. She's very confident, very impressed with her. And you'll hear that chat. in around 20 minutes or so.

But first, if you missed the conversation earlier this week, we're going to play it again right now. Tonight, he takes on Douglas Lima for the vacant Bellator middleweight title at Bellator 250, a super fight indeed. Musasi versus the welterweight champ had the chance to catch up with one gigard Musassi. Here is that conversation right now on what the heck. All right, we're being joined by one half of the main event of Thursday's Bellator 250 event. He's going to take on Douglas Lima for the vacant Bellator middleweight title,

one of the biggest fights, in my opinion, in the history of the company. Gagar, good to have you here. How are you, sir? Good. Thank you. Thanks for having me. I'm ready. Absolutely. So we're just days away from this fight going down. It was booked for May before the pandemic struck. How excited to you that the days, the hours, the minutes, they're just ticking away here? Yeah, I'm excited. Just need to make wage, stay out of the way of COVID. I got tested. I was negative, so I'm able to travel now. So I'm ready. I just, you know, just pass these days because you never know.

You're not sure the fight is happening until you're in the case. So I'm still a little bit nervous about everything. You've obviously, you know, you've had a long, illustrious career. You've been in some big and important fights. Is this one, do you feel like this is the biggest fight of your career, considering what's at stake, the buzz, and fighting a guy like Douglas? For me, it's just another fight. I've not really thought of that it's a title fight or anything like that.

I know the title is on the line, but I never thought about the title, to be honest. I just focused on Doug Slema. How have you been handling this crazy year with the pandemic, preparing for a fight, then it's off and now it's back on? And, I mean, like you said, you've been in this game for a long time. You've experienced pretty much everything outside of a pandemic. How have you handled such a chaotic year? It was not so good this year, to be honest. I had the little bit of injuries and then waiting and then reschedule, reschedule, not knowing when I would fight.

So it's been over a year now almost since I fought. So I'm just happy that I'm fighting again, you know. Not a good year. But I think that's for a lot of people. Yeah, I would agree with that. I mean, and then kind of just going back and looking at your resume, I think this is the longest layoff, between fights that you've had since your strike force days. And, you know, it's been a rough year.

And while it slows momentum a little bit, there is a lot to be said about taking time to recharge the batteries and getting your mind right. So mentally and physically, because of the time off, even though it kind of sucks, is this the best that you felt heading into a fight in a long time? No, no, actually not, because once I stopped, when you completely don't do anything,

When you're older, then you feel you're rusty. Then the eggs come, you know. But when you're in shape, you don't feel those things. So as I'm getting older, I have to stay in shape. And it didn't help that I was off for such a long time. What about from like a mental perspective? Also not. You know, I'm not getting any younger.

You know, I'm 35 now. So I rather stay busy and get as much as spite as I can. You're younger than I am. Yeah, but, you know, 35 is not like, it's getting slowly downwards, you know. Maybe till 37, 38, you can, but certain fighters can go up to 40, 41, but I don't know if I'm that kind of fighter, you know. Yeah. I mean, do you have like a, have you set up like an age number for yourself or are you just going fight by fight? Well, 37 and then I'm going to look, you know, at least after this year, two more years for sure.

sure and then just look at how things will go. How did you, I mean, we saw you lose that majority decision to Jafel Lovato Jr. and you subsequently lost the title and of course it sucks to lose, but, you know, how did you react to finding out that Raphael had to vacate the title because of the brain condition that he's going through? I mean, obviously it's a tough situation. I'm sure that's a rematch that you'd love to have, but, man, just you got to feel for the man. Yeah, you know, I would have loved to fight him.

But at the end of the day, you know, I wish him well, you know. There was a little bit bad blood. Not bad blood because I liked the guy, actually. It's a nice guy. But help first. And if he doesn't get approved by the doctors, you know, there's not much you can do. So I moved on. And I wish him well, you know.

You've been in this heading into this fight, like in a very similar situation taken on a current champion from the Walterweight Division. You dispatch of Roy McDonald very quickly in dominant fashion. How does this fight compare to the one with Rory back in 2018? Well, you know, it's a fight. You go in, you never know what's going to happen. I can go in and make it short work, have an easy night, or I can go to the toughest fight on my life, you know.

But you never know. But I'm confident. I'm very confident in my abilities. also because of Douglas Lima style that I'm going to present a lot of troubles for him. Have you been impressed with what he's been able to do? I mean, he's been on a great run. He's got the finishes of MVP in Koreshkov.

He dominated Roy McDonald as well to win his title back. And, you know, there's a lot of people who believe that he might not just be the best Walterweight in Bellator, but he might be the best Walterweight in the world right now. Have you been impressed with what he's done? Definitely. Revenge is both losses. he's been on a winning streak.

He's confident. He's mature. He's experienced. He has the mentality. So, of course, he's a danger. I don't pass him. But I think he's facing me at the wrong time because I feel great, better than ever.

And I think he's going to show him the fight. So you do feel better than ever. Yeah, because I've changed a lot of times. things. So I see the result in training. So that's why I know it's going to have a tough night. What kinds of things have you changed if you don't mind me asking? Well, a lot of technique, strength. I improve on every aspect that you can imagine. So you're stronger, a lot of strength and conditioning? Stronger, faster, better conditions, everything. I could say I got even younger. So you're a you're a young spry 35 year old?

Yeah, I'm not going to, but I don't know how old is Douglas, but I'm not going to be, like, feeling like 35. Well, there you go. That's always good. I feel after, yeah. So, you know, I'm very confident. I feel good. The height and reach, you know, pretty similar.

Obviously, frame-wise, you know, when you guys faced off, I thought you were going to be much bigger, but you still have some size on them. You obviously have the experience advantage of this fight. Outside of that, like, when you look at it from, like, a stylistic perspective, of like the X's and O's of it all. Where would you say your biggest advantage is lie heading into Thursday night? Well, technically I'm better, stand up.

I have the reach. I feel like I have the speed. I'm going to be stronger. So that's his main weapon, you know, the stand-up. So if I can put him in trouble in that area, you know, the rest will be even. And then he has to worry about the takedown that's going to make my stand-up even look better.

So style-wise, I'm not a good matcher for him, you know. How do you feel about fighting in front of no fans? Like some fighters love it, and some are a little uneasy about it. Do you mind? No, I think it's going to feel like a sparring and less pressure, to be honest. And I think I'm going to feel even better. It's going to feel like I'm sparring a guy. So maybe it's going to, you know, I think I will do better, to be honest, without the crowd.

Yeah, I think a lot of fighters feel that way. It just kind of takes some of the pressure off, you know? Yeah, yeah, for sure. We talked about, you know, how people look at Lima like he could be the best wealth away in the world. I mean, if you go out there and you do what you expect to do on Thursday, and maybe if you put them away and have that belt wrapped around your waist at the end of the night, does this make you not just the top guy in the world at 85 for Bellator?

Does this put you like in the world? Do you care about that? Now, because at the end of the day, I'm the bigger guy. I'm supposed to win. So I don't know how much credit I will get for the fight. If he wins, he gains a lot. You know, he's a double champ. But I don't see it like that.

I see him as a big welterweight. You've seen a lot of wealthways doing very well in middleweight. So there's not a big size difference. I see him just being a tough opponent. But it's not going to make me. it's not like I'm beating John Jones or anything that's going to make me suddenly the number one guy in the world, you know. So, but it's good, it's good to have him win over Douglas Lima. He's definitely one of the bigger names out there.

But in your division, though, would that put you in the 15? He's coming up to 185. I don't think he's ranked there. So it's just a super fight. So obviously it's going to make me champion. And then I have to go to the guys that the number one contenders. That makes a lot of sense. Do you feel like he's coming in with very little to lose and everything to gain and the pressure is on you?

I have no pressure because I feel great. So, yeah, I feel like I'm going to go there. I'm going to do whatever I like. Not whatever I like. But I'm so confident in this fight that I'm not worried at all, you know. There's no pressure on me. because I'm not just Douglas. From now on, you will see the way I'm going to beat my opponents.

So do you feel like a little more free now? A little bit spinach goes a long way. That Popeye sauce. So do you feel like a little more free right now? You feel like, is it a good feeling? Yeah, we're going to do things differently now. We're going to finish everyone. So I know you have your finger on the pulse in the sport.

So I'm sure you watched Israel Adasania's win over Paulo Kost. So I'm curious, like, what stuck out to you more? Is he's performance? Because I think I've watched past interviews where you said that you kind of expected Israel to do what he did on that fight. So was it the performance that stuck out more or kind of the lack of sportsmanship

he showed afterwards that stuck out? Yeah, you beat the guy already. I don't know. There's maybe bad blood between them. But at the end of the day, it's always shaking hands, being respectful. You already knocked the guy out. I mean, I don't think you would have

liked if someone did that to him. But anyway, it's just sport, you know, he beat him. But different characters. I don't know. I wouldn't have done that, but, you know, I'm not him, you know. Where do you kind of stand on that argument? Because, like, there's some fans that are just like, listen, if you talk all that trash and you get beat like that, like, you just kind of have to take it what's coming.

And then there's the sports martial arts side of it. You know, what side are you more on? Do you understand both sides? Well, you know, there's promotional stuff, you know. A lot of guys say stuff. I don't take it seriously anymore. When I was younger, I would take it personally.

But now when I hear someone say, I'm going to beat Musassi or this and that is the, I know that's, you know, or he's confident. You know, if you want to say you can, someone's going to knock someone out. Yeah, sure. But a lot of it is promotion. So at the end of the day, like Connor McGregor,

a lot of things is show. But you can take it too far. I don't know if Costa, Costa, what was his name? Palo Costa. Palo Costa. If it took it that far, you know what I mean? It wasn't like Kabib versus McGregor.

McGregor went too far with that fight, you know? So I don't know. You know, it's just a promotion. At the end of the day, it's just a fight, you know. It's funny because if I ask like hardcore fans, like dream matchups that they want to see. Most of them will list that you versus Adasanya is like right at the top

of that list. Like that's one of those fights that everybody would love to see. And I doubt it happens anytime soon because you're in two different organizations. But man, that would be a lot of fun if somehow some way that fight could happen. Is that one that like is on your wish list? Like if you could do it, you'd like to do it? I don't even think about it

because it's not going to happen. You know, I think Belvedo would do a co-promotion, but I don't think UFC will ever do that. So it's like Dreaming of Yeah Of thinking about a fight that's never going to happen It's like me fighting the heavyweight guy

You know It's not realistic So I don't even think about it So if you win this Recapture this title Are you plan on just Kind of sticking around at 85 Running off contenders

Or are you planning on maybe Jump it up to 205 And maybe you could be the champ champ champ yourself Yeah yeah First Douglas Limba And then John Saul and then if they come up with a light heavyweight fight, I take it. What have you made a...

It's a one-time deal. If I go to a light-airways, just fight for the belt, and then I go back again. I'm not a light-airweight. But can I beat a light-heavyweight? 100%. So let's talk about what's in front of us. I mean, this main event is just so good for the middleweight title between yourself and Douglas Lima.

What's your gut telling you? I mean, you got that spinach power right now. Do we have an official Gay-Gar-Mussasi prediction here? You know, tremendous respect for Dr. Trima. But I'm not trying to be cocky, but I should be able to finish him two wrong. And then on to John Salter, who's looked pretty damn good, they're saying. Yeah, yeah. But I think after my performance, people, I don't think John Salter will like to fight.

But he's next, so we'll give it to him. Speaking of John Salter, former opponent of his, Costello Van Steen, is your boy. He just got a nice win. over Fabian Edwards, a guy who heading into that fight said that he wanted to beat Fabio, and he wanted to beat Costello, and then move on to retire you afterwards. You must have enjoyed watching that fight for a number of reasons last month, right? Yeah, 100%. He won. We were very happy.

Yeah, like that guy, Fabian saying those stuff, it doesn't bother me at all, you know. He just tried to build himself up, trying to make a name for himself. So whatever, you know. I wish him well. There you go. It's a loser. Anyway. Well, I mean, he had his fight.

You're up next, man. This is one of my favorite fights at 2020 and all of MMA on Paper Gaggar. I appreciate you jumping on. It's been a couple of years since you've done this. And give me some time. Safe travels and enjoy New England in October, man. It's beautiful right now. Thank you, sir.

I think it's Connecticut. I'm fighting. Yeah, right? Yeah, it's part of New England. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I didn't know. Yeah, man.

Different area. The leaves are different colors. It's like 70 degrees already now. It's beautiful. Yeah. Okay, okay. Yeah. Thank you.

Thank you. Always enjoy chatting with Gagard Musassi. I just love that fight with Douglas Lima. This is a true Bellator super fight. Best main event of the year easily for Bellator coming up tonight. And in my opinion, we talked about this in between the links, not this past week, but the show before. This is perfect timing. Bellator has done a lot of things right.

And a lot of things, they're just not getting any momentum. and it's not really, I mean, I don't know if it's their fault or not, because they've made a lot of good moves, but they need a fight like this to happen right now, and it's going to happen tonight. So they need a boost, and I just can't wait to see how this all plays out tonight on the CBS Sports Network.

So let's move ahead from someone I've spoken to many times over the years, like Gagar Musassi, excuse me, to someone that I spoke with for the very first time. Ren and Maverick made her highly anticipated UFC debut on Saturday at UFC 254, and she delivered. She picked up a TKO win over Liana Jojuwa. Let's check in with Fear the Maverick right now. All right, we got Miranda Maverick on the program.

She made her UFC debut on Saturday at UFC 254. Got a first round TKO win over Liana Jojuwa after the fight was stopped before the second round began. Great win for Miranda, Fear the Maverick. Great to have you here. Miranda, how are you? I'm doing great. I appreciate you having me.

Absolutely. The debut is in the books. You got to do it on Fight Island during a very unique time in our world. What did you make of the experience in Abu Dhabi? And how does the wind feel a few days later? The wind feels great. I've been traveling up until late last night. So it was a long drive and playing fly back home. But I'm here kind of getting to soak everything in. Still haven't quite gotten my check yet. But I'm sure the reality will hit at that point. You know, it was exciting to make my debut. have it happen the way that it did. I kind of wish I would have got to keep fighting to show more of my skills,

but a win's a win. There you go. As you stated in your post-fight scrum, you have a million things going on. You're going for your PhD. I talked to John Anick on the show last week. He said that you sort of blew him away during the fighter meetings because you're doing some teaching, you're doing some assistant work, you've been teaching Zoom classes, like you're getting ready for a fight at the same time.

So what was sort of like the day-to-day like for you on the island? Did you get to focus on the fight, like, per se, or did you still have to work on those very other important things in your life as the fight we was progressing? I still had to work on everything else while my fight was getting ready. Even the day of weight cutting Thursday night, I literally had a three and a half hour Zoom meeting from 9.30 p.m. to midnight. And so it was, you know, constant even when I was miserable and cutting weight.

But that's part of it. You know, I signed up for it as my decision. life to have went after all those things so it's not something i can be whining about was it almost like a like a good thing at the same time because you know you didn't have to focus and kind of overwhelm yourself with the fight you could sort of distract yourself with with some of those other things not really i wish i could just focus on just the fight is pretty um miserable to have everything else to keep track of too it too it makes it to where you know i don't want to be too tired for the fight to where i have no brain power left in the day to work on homework or teaching or whatever else.

And it just provided a lot of things for me to keep up with in addition to the whole UFC schedule that was going on out there. And the time change was rough with everything because I was having classes into the, you know, early morning hours. So it made it pretty rough. But I tried to get everything ahead of time a little bit to where at least like the day of the fight I didn't have anything to do in the day of way ends. I didn't really have anything to do, so that was nice. I know you were supposed to debut in June, but you were scratched from that fight.

You were supposed to fight Mara or Mara Borella, and I'm sure that sucked for you, but at the same time, you get to debut on one of the biggest cards of the year. You're one of the standouts of the event. So I would say, and I don't want to put words in your mouth, but it seems like things worked out pretty well for you, did they not? Yeah, definitely. And I believe things happened for a reason, and I couldn't have asked for much of a better debut, whether how it went or the event that I got to be on.

So I'm not whining. I'm glad that things got fixed that were wrong in June, and I got to go in there and show my stuff. The main event was obviously a big talking point, but nobody really knew that we were watching Habibn-O-Magam-Gamadeh fight for the last time in his illustrious career. He ends his career 29-0, undefeated, undisputed champion. What is that like in the aftermath,

being able to share your card, you know, share a card with your first fight with his last fight? memorable that's that's the word for it you know it's exciting everybody's gonna remember that card we watched that card several times um helped me with my exposure and you know it's an honor to be on a card with so many great fighters like it was just a phenomenal card from beginning to end in my opinion and i was lucky that i got to watch some of the fights unfortunately not live but we got to go back to our hotel room and the hotel had them had it to where we could watch them Well, there you go. So what did you think of Habib's performance and then kind of finding out everything that happened in the aftermath, the injuries, he had mumps heading into the fight, like all that in play to beat a guy that many believed was his toughest test. What did you think of that? He's one of the greatest, you know, everybody kind of already knew it. I didn't really think he was going to win quite so dominantly, but it just speaks to how good he really is. It was amazing.

So let's talk about your fight. Jojua comes out, she landed some shots early. One thing that I noticed, and I know the broadcasts it as well, she was moving around really well. She definitely made some improvements in that aspect, but you stayed very patient, and as the fight progressed, your confidence just continued to soar.

When you got into the octagon, you make the walk and all that, was it a little nerve-wracking for you? Or did you need like a couple of punches before you got comfortable, or you were just right in the moment right from the jump? I would say it took me a minute to get used to. You can kind of see me adjust throughout the fight, and it took probably 30 to 45 seconds for me to be like, okay, this is where I'm at, get your head together and go.

And then from then on, I think I showed a pretty dominant display. But the first few strikes that she landed and stuff were kind of like a wake-up call, getting in there, getting any nerves that were there out. I tried to go in there without any nerves at all, without anxiety, like put my faith where it needs to be and know that I don't need to be anxious, whatever is going to be in there is going to happen. But it still gets to you, no matter how experienced you are, like changing levels and going to the UFC from Invicta and everything.

It was just a new experience. It's exciting hearing a Bruce Buffer call out my name for the first time. And literally, you can hear everything the commentators are saying, Cage Side, which I think could be really negative for some fighters. Like, I don't care. I block it out and pay attention only. my coaches. But had I wanted to, I could have literally heard everywhere that was being said. You know, I could hear it as I was walking into the cage. So just getting those nerves out and

everything, I think, took me a few seconds. And then once that was gone, I was, I was ready to go. I felt my own rhythm and started doing my game plan. Do you remember the last time you felt that way, like getting into a cage? Was it your first Invicta fight or did it happen like earlier? Or is this a typical thing for you? I don't usually really have any nervousness. And even this time, the nurse weren't super bad or anything. I was very focused. Like, that's where I belong. You know what I mean? It's where I've envisioned myself being. But I felt that way my first Invicta fight. I actually felt that way my second Invicta fight. And then probably at the tournament, like just different new things that happen. And it kind of depends on opponent, depends on promotion, just a lot of different

things. And even how I feel going into the fights, just every once in a while you get those nerves that happen. My second pro fight was probably one of the worst just because the girl I was going against all this hype behind her and was supposed to, I knew I was supposed to just go in there and get my butt kicked. And luckily I didn't, you know, I won in the first round. But that was probably the last time I felt that nervous. So you're landing at Will.

You turn the corner, you got very comfortable. You started to overwhelm her a little bit. And then the step-in elbow, which I've watched probably 50 times by now, that was the beginning of the end. You don't see those elbows find success that often at this level, but you did it in your first UFC fight. And that thing was ferocious. and it was nasty. How many times have you gone back and watched it?

Several times, you know, and it's really exciting. My coach keeps trying to go back in training videos and finding where we've trained it because it was a very specific thing that we practiced leading up to the fight. And it was funny because I was like, oh, I'm going to fake level changes and then boom, walk in. Because she puts her head down a lot when she throws punches. Anytime she landed was her with her head down. It was she doesn't have very good striking at all. And people assume that I don't, but I have a lot better than I had ever shown previous. I just didn't need to. I would take it down and finish it. And I decided to just show off a little bit this time, I guess, and tried that elbow two times previous to actually landing it clean. And every time it was connecting with her face, I just wasn't getting the slice that I wanted. And finally was able to aim and get it right on the button and it worked perfect. As you said, I mean, you weren't overly thrilled with how the fight ended because you had a lot of bullets left in the chamber. But all things considered, you fly across the world. You get a finish in your UFC debut.

You got a highlight of the night that people keep watching. So all in all is a pretty good night for you. How would you grade your performance overall? They graded my performance as a B. I would have given myself an A minus. I could have done better the first 30 seconds. But aside from that, I did my game plan perfectly. Had I got to keep going, I would have shown even more,

hopefully some cage work and groundwork and everything else. But I went in there and did my job. So I couldn't have asked for a better debut. A first round finished and they gave you a B? What? Yeah, they were like, well, I think it was Philip Haas's fault. They gave him an A plus. How can you do better than that?

You go in there, punch somebody wants to knock him out. I'm like, well, okay. All right, I'll take it. I mean, it's still good, but I mean, you're a student. I know, like, my wife was a student. She's like, if I can get an A, I'm going to get an A. Yeah, it was the joke all over the internet with friends of mine because I never, like I was always the straight A student.

And they were like, what? It's the first B Miranda's ever gotten in their life. So now you're back home. The travel is behind you. What is life like now? Are you trying to catch up on sleep? Or is that not even possible with everything you have going on? It's not even possible.

Honestly, like with the flight and I was able to kind of go to sleep on this sleep schedule here last night because I was just so tired. But I have class literally right after we get off of this Zoom call. So it's kind of right. I don't get a break. It's right back to school work. I'll go to training tonight, work as hard as I ever have. Like I'm not much for taking breaks.

I don't believe in offseason within this sport. I'm ready to go at all times. And I've got to act that way. Being a professional fighter isn't a part-time job. You know, it's one of those things where you go in there and put your life on the line. People who just train sometimes or when they have a fight coming up, they take it seriously. They're never going to get to the top. So do your like, because I know you do some teaching assisting as well.

They're like your professors. Do your fellow classmates? They all know that you're fighting in the UFC? I think most do, and luckily, like, my school did, like, the story on me earlier this, I guess it was a summer over the COVID time. They did, like, a story about me. So a lot of the students and stuff know about me. I actually got, like, five emails from school from different professors that I don't even know in things that were just like, congratulations, glad you make it back safe. And then a lot of my students know, like last year, they actually did like a student party when I fought some of my students.

This time it's online, so it's a little bit more detached. than what in-person classes provide for me to have a relationship with my students. But I think a lot of them are still pretty aware, and it's really exciting. That's pretty cool. So you mentioned during your scrum that you're doing all these things to set you up for life outside of fighting when that time comes. And you're obviously very young in life and in the sport. Have you kind of laid out a professional career plan for yourself? Like you're going to fight until this time, then you're going to move on to this, do this, do that?

Like, have you planned that all out? Are you sort of taking things a fight at a time, a day at a time? Like, how does that work for you? So kind of freakishly planned out in my life, like everything, whether it be current or future, very good at, like, planning out what I want with my life, what I want with my career. And it's funny, like, people took offense to me saying, like, unlike a lot of fighters, I have a backdrop. And I wasn't meaning that to be insulting necessarily, but I want an education.

I want to have other career paths. If my knee gets messed up in a fight, I don't have to struggle along for the rest of my life trying to make a living and something else. I want to have a good future financially. But back onto your topic, I want to be done fighting in my early 30s. I don't want to be like,

I'm top 50, yay, when I'm 35 years old, like a few people I know do, you know, and they're really excited to even be recognized at that age. And for me, like, I'm 23. I want to be in the top 10 by the time I'm 24, at least. Like, I'm ready to get to the top, make my mark, make my money, and move on with my life. I don't want to get brain damage.

I don't want to have just that thing going for me when I'm ready to have a family and have kids and things and then have to go right back to fighting to make a living. So I want to be done by the time I'm in my early 30s and move on to other things. hopefully it's in association with the sport too, whether it be commentating or consulting for sports organizations or things like that in tie with my education. That would be the dream, you know. So you still have like seven, eight, nine, maybe a decade left. Yeah, absolutely. I'm not like done in the next few years or anything.

I want to make it like a pretty long career goal. Like after I'm done getting my PhD, I'm not going to hopefully not going to jump right into a job and be doing my MMA. I want to focus on MMA for a few years. make it to that, you know, the top of the food chain, and then we'll see what happens from there. You certainly have lofty aspirations, Miranda. You said that, you know, you're in no real rush at the moment, but you already have goals.

You have your sight set on Valentina. You have your site set on becoming a champion. You know, and Valentina's looked unbeatable as of late, but you see yourself at some point being the one to pull it off and get a win over her. Why do you feel like you could be the one to do what very few have done before? You know, I don't think it's going to be the next fight, but hopefully in a few fights in the next couple years, it's funny. People were like picking on me. They're like, oh, another person calling out Valentina.

I'm like, I didn't really call her out. I'm saying that's where I want to be at some point. But I think that I have this grappling background that is stronger than almost every other girl in the division where I can go in there and wrestle them and use my jiu-jitsu and get finishes. They didn't talk about that a lot in this fight, which I found amusing, just because Juja had this grappling background, and they were talking about how many finishes she had by Arm Bar, and I was like, nobody's talking about the five finishes I have with Arm Bar and Renegad Chogue and everything else, you know, put that aside. I feel like nobody's pushed Valentina in her grappling at all. Like, people always wait until they're dead tired to try to take her down.

They're like, oh, it's round two. maybe I should try to take her to the ground because I just got beat up for a whole round. Like, why not take her down in the first round or at least test her skills there? Like nobody even seems to want to go to the ground with her. It's like this whole competition of, well, she's a good striker, so I want to show I am too. That's not the fighting world. Like, you need to go in there and win a fight. It doesn't matter.

Like, I'm not trying to do stand up because I'm trying to be like, well, I'm better than you. So I'm going to do my stand up. Like, I just go in there and show my potential and do what I need to do to win fights. So you have right now there's like a happy balance between mystery versus history, which is good. I mean, eventually that aura is going to wear off, but you might have like another fight where people kind of overlook your grappling. Yeah, it could be, you know, and that always happens. This was one of the only fights I wasn't an underdog in, and it still depended on who you talk to, you know. I think in the betting odds, I was the favorite, but I was the underdog as far as talent and stuff a lot of times when people would talk about it.

and yeah just it's interesting to me like a lot of times when I fight anybody with submission of any sword or grappling game they just kind of dismiss my own which is interesting but I guess at one point you know it'll change the other way and enjoy it while you can yeah right but what's interesting now is there's a lot of interest in this division for the first time in a while we got Lauren Murphy who just got a win and a finish on the main card just got to dodge just beat the number one contender. Cynthia Calvio had a win over the previous number one contender, and they're all sort of vying for this next shot against the winner of Shipchenko and

Jennifer Maya. So 125, the women's division, it's getting a lot of buzz right now. So I think you're timing to enter this fray here. It's kind of perfect, isn't it? I think it's perfect. I think it's perfect for getting me something in the near future. I'm hoping I have a fight around early December coming up. I asked for one within the next month.

I had to, I just got done being asked by my management when I could fight and worked out my schedule to look at where school aligned with free time for fighting and hopefully we get it lined up in the next few weeks. Anybody stick out to you now that you've had some time to process the trip and the fight and the whole adventure to fight Island? You know, I've been talking to my dad and some other people, my coaches and thinking about like who to call out per se, but it's not exactly my style to do that usually. I just want to climb my way up the ladder, whoever they put in front of me next. I want it to be obviously a higher ranked opponent and go in there and show my stuff again. I'd love it if they put me against a striker. That would be almost amusing. But I'm ready for anybody.

I'm ready for anybody they throw at me. I'm ready to move up to the top and show once again what I can do. Yeah, we do a matchmaking show for MMA fighting. It's called On to the Next One. And I think we mentioned this on the post-fight show too. I think you versus like Justine Kish makes all the sense in the world because she's a striker and she's a veteran in the UFC. She's had a lot of fights. She just lost to Sabina Mazzo, but still I think considering the next step for your career to get to where you want to be, I think Justin's a pretty good step for you and a good test for you.

Yeah, that would be nice. There's a lot that people have kind of put out there as people for me to fight against. And I think all of them have been pretty interesting ideas. It's funny to me though, like once somebody wins via striking, everybody wants that person. and they go against a striker. And for me, like, that would be so nice because strikers, for me, I just take down and finish them, every fight. And it's funny to me, I'm like, why would I do that?

You know, why would I stand up and strike with them? And they're like, well, to prove a point that your striking is good. And when people do that, it's just silly to me. I'm like, I'm in there to make money and win fights and move on up the chain. I'm going to do whatever is advantageous for me, not what shows off against what people think about me. you know where does this i mean you're 23 years of age you're you're very confident you're very well spoken where does this confidence come from um i a hundred percent believe that i grew up

different than any other female out there like made for this sport almost that's what it seems like um i grew up picking up hay bales i grew up picking up rocks in the field as punishment you know what i mean like I wasn't grounded. I didn't live in the city where all I had to do was play video games and stuff. I grew up working like a grown man on a farm from the age of like five years old on doing work that most people would be like, holy crap, I'm not doing that. And I'm so appreciative of it. I'm so appreciative that I grew up that way and made this like actual core strength. Like people brag about my strength and stuff. It's not just genetics. It's not just me working out now or working hard in the gym.

It came from how I grew up. It came from everything that I was put through as a child, lifting things. Like, my dad wouldn't let us give up when we wanted to. It was push that extra 10 seconds and do what you could do. And that's what separates normal people and champions in the gym and everything else. And the fact that I just grew up that way gives me that edge on other opponents. That and creating this mindset where I've gone to school. and done this all at the same time

and had other things on my plate through life. And I don't think other people do that either. They focus on one thing or they have very living in the present dreams instead of fighting for something. Like a lot of people fight to be champion. For me, being a champion is just a means to the end. Like that isn't my end goal. My end goal is to live a life outside of that with a family,

to have property, to have investment, to have a happy family and everything. not to be champion. To be champion is to make those other dreams come true. You know, so means to ends versus just having an end. Like my goals are never the end for me. And I think that's where the mentality separates itself too. I cannot believe I'm 14 years older than you listening to you talk like this.

This is unbelievable. Last thing I want to ask you about because I know you got things going on. You know, you said career aspirations outside of the sport may be involved in the sport. maybe as an analyst. So let me ask you this. Your last Invicta opponent, Pearl Gonzalez, is going to fight Aaron Blanchfield for the vacant flyweight title on November 20th. And I know you haven't fought Aaron before,

but you have to assume that if she beats Pearl, her UFC call is coming pretty quick. So how do you see that fight playing out? So my opinion on it varies two different ways. To make me look good, I hope Aaron loses. You know what I mean? I hope that Pearl keeps on winning and it makes me look even better. However, I think Aaron will win.

I want Erin to win. I think that she's a good person. I think she's a good fighter and she's another young person coming up in a division that needs more people again. And you say I haven't fought her. I actually had a fight lined up against her for the contender series and that got called off due to some Invicta. The people in charge of Invicta didn't really want their two top girls going against each other outside of the organization. You know, it kind of makes a promotion look bad when they're going into the. the Consider series versus just getting into the UFC,

which luckily I got the call-up for. But I think Aaron Blanchfield's grappling will prove to be stronger than pearls. And I also think that her striking is really coming along too. So I think she's going to win. There's a little bit of saltiness for my end that I beat somebody and they're getting to jump right into a title shot. But it is what it is, you know. Vanessa got moved up, I got moved up, Diana Bennett got moved up.

A lot of the girls from Invictor are moving. on to bigger, better things, and I'm proud of them. But my guess is Aaron Blanchfield. Were you and Aaron supposed to fight like this season or last season? I guess it was last season in June, around June. Okay. That would have got a lot of buzz. But I guess I understand where they're coming from.

I was happy to get my other call-ups. It was kind of my last option. I really didn't want to do the contender series at all. I thought I was beyond that, and I am beyond that. So I was kind of irritated that that was the call up I was getting. So it ended up working out differently and I'm excited for what happened. Seriously, so impressive, just such confidence, very mature for being just 23 years of age. Excited to see where Miranda Maverick goes from here and congratulations to her following her Octagon debut win at UFC 254.

What a card to debut on and get a finish on. We head back to the Bellator cage right now. And in a way, we head back to the squared circle. Jake Hager returns to MMA competition later on today. The featured prelim of Bellator 250 is going to take on Brandon Colton. Let us say hello to the Bellator heavyweight and AEW wrestler Jake Hager. All right, we are being joined by Jake Hager. He returns to the Bellator cage tomorrow night as we record.

Bellator 250 is going to face fellow unbeaten fighter Brandon Colton. Very busy man these days. We're happy to be joined by Mr. Hager right now. Jake, how are you, man? I'm good, man. Thank you for having me. Excited to be on Bellator 250. It's going to be a great card from top to bottom,

especially those heavyweight ballots. Absolutely. I'll wait in and a slim trim, 253.2. And now it's just time to rest, focus, and get ready for the fight. And it's interesting because you've been, this is only your fourth MMA fight. You've been competing most of your life. You've been in the pro-wrestling world for a

long time now as well. What are these like next 24 hours or so going to be like for you getting ready for an MMA fighter. Their nerves is very relaxed. Like, how would you describe it? I try to really stay calm before the storm. I think it just helps me. You could waste a lot of energy.

Your nervous system could waste a lot of energy with anxiety. Your whole camp, you plan on peeking at the right moment. And so this is just another part of that. You want to, you know, rest and really peak tomorrow. For me, I'm a creature of habit, so I like to do everything I did the day before the last fight. And so I try to recreate certain things as much as possible if I watched the movie with my team that night. We're going to do the same thing tonight. So it's pretty boring, actually.

Yeah, I mean, some fighters look at things differently. So I figured you probably have more relaxed approach since, you know, your career, your competitive. of nature. I mean, you've been in these spots many times before. Maybe not with like getting punched in the face that often, but from wrestling and all that stuff. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think that's one of my biggest assets in MMA. I may not have the cage experience. I may not have the amateur record. But I have over a thousand amateur wrestling matches. I have over 10 years of live experience on TV. And that really helps me know when to start warming up and when to perform. at a high level.

I watched the live stream of the way-ins or the ceremonial way-ins on the Bellator Instagram page and you guys are squaring off and I could see your face in the back of your opponent's head during the face-off. It looks like you were saying something to Brandon because I saw the mask

moving a little bit right around where your mouth would, we would be able to see that. Did you say anything to him? Well, he said something to me and it was actually quite funny. I had on all-white Chuck Taylor's. And he walked up and in his meanest voice he said i like your shoes and so and in my meanest voice i

said my wife dresses me that is hilarious man is that is that that's so funny that's that's really what happened that's hilarious it's um so you so you mentioned your your last fight you like to try to mimic things that you did to stay comfortable this is going to be your first fight in over a year the last one didn't really go as planned because it was stopped in a little under two minutes and it was deemed a no contest after a pair of unintentional groin strikes. How excited you just get back in there and try to get that bad taste out of your mouth and show the evolution of your game? Yeah, I'm excited to get back in there. I don't have any regrets or bad taste in my mouth from the last fight. I went in there and did exactly what I wanted to do.

I was dominating. Definitely learned from the mistake. I think it was only one groin strike, but we won't be picky. It's one of those things where you either love it or you don't. And, you know, training camp always sucks. It's always hard. But that's where you win the fight. And so I really look forward to tomorrow night. You will see a big smile on my face because I've been working really hard.

And we're ready to show the world even more how far we come and how dangerous I can be. I was telling you off the last time we spoke, you were a free agent in the wrestling business. You were on the independence. I interviewed you for a local radio station. in Pittsfield, Massachusetts, before a Northeast wrestling show at the ballpark here. Since then, I mean, you're all, you're now with AEW, you're on television Wednesday nights on TNT. You're in the mix of like a Wednesday night wrestling rivalry of sorts with NXT. This has to be cool for you because, one, you get to be part of something different and fresh in the wrestling business,

but also you get some of the nostalgia of the old Monday Night Wars since you missed out on that by a few years. Have you, how have you enjoyed this next chapter of your career? It's been incredible. I feel very lucky to work for two incredible companies such as Belator and AEW. I considered this last year of my wrestling career, best in my career. It's definitely been the most enjoyable, most rewarding. Being able to work with Chris Jericho, he's always been the greatest, but really when everyone's accepting him as the greatest right now,

it's really awesome to work with him. and the refreshing thing is astronomical. I think you see it in all the performances at AEW. Tony treats us like athletes, and we appreciate that. And it's just so cool to, you know, your success always determined is determined upon your hard work. And then at AEW, I think Chris really said it best,

is like, you want to be successful? I was like, well, how creative can you be? And instead of, like, block. you or like shooting down millions of ideas that probably could work. They're really good at AEW is really good at giving you the resources you need to succeed and like give the fans what they want, which is something new, something fresh. I got into pro wrestling really heavily during the original Monday Night Wars. I was in seventh, eighth grade, NWO Wolfpack all the way. and so to be a part of this new whatever competition they're calling it it is really cool

competition makes everyone better and the fans end up being the real winners because they have great choices everywhere I feel so blessed again to be a part of the pro wrestling industry now in bellator and MMA because both industries are peaking right now MMA is so popular pro wrestling is even more popular than the 1980s, I would argue. And so it's really cool and an honor because I love both of it. And to do this for a job and a living, I feel very blessed. There's thousands of Americans, millions of Americans who really have to struggle and are going through a tough time right now.

And so hopefully the real form of entertainment that I provide does help. obviously that has kept you very busy during like you said a very tumultuous year COVID-19 the pandemic plus you know it's nice that the events take place in your home state of Florida so that has to be nice too but you know things have obviously opened up a little bit more now and some places are closing a little bit but was it a bit of a struggle early on to you know in the MMA side of it to get with your team get with your coaches to to get training in the hardest part for us was finding training partners I'm a heavyweight, and so finding big guys to roll with is always a task. We had the facilities.

We had multiple facilities that we could use, so it was really just training partners. And I feel so lucky again that I had all my guys come in and, like, you know, we had our ups and downs where we had to do cancels and, you know, a lot of solo practices. But they really stuck by me and really gave me their time and gave me their hard work when they could. And I'm very fortunate for them. You were supposed to fight in May, right, before that event was scrapped? Yep. I was on the May 9th card originally. And it was one of the first ones to get canceled.

So since then, it kind of worked out. We had the stadium stampede in between, so I was able to go right into that and keep going with AEW. But all the time, we've been seriously somewhat in camps. since then. Were you able to get like a, I mean, you're always training and working, but we're able to get like a decent size training campaign for this one because we know how Bellator can be. Penn goes to paper.

We don't hear about it for at least two or three weeks. How long of the notice did you have for this one? I think I had about six to seven weeks. I've known probably since August that October was going to be the date. It did get a little late before we actually did finalize it, like you said. but I had a ballpark idea that sometime in October was. So we started preparing early like we do. I'm an old guy, so I got to start early.

Did you know much about Brandon when you first got? I mean, he just turned pro this year, five and O Ami runs, got two quick finishes this year. I believe all of his finishes are via strikes. Have you been able to check him out at all? Or do you let Josh Rafferty and your coaches kind of do that scouting for you?

No, I think in this day and age, you know, video so easily to come by, you know, of course we check him out. he's a big, big, super heavy weight. He's going to be all of 265. I didn't see what he weighed in today yet. But I thought he looked great. He looked more in shape than he did in the last fight that I saw.

He said multiple interviews that conditioning is not going to be a problem. So I'm taking this as it's going to be a hard fight. He's a big country boy. I think he has seven amateur fights that he, so he's on a nine fight. win streak. Big proud country boy. He's going to give me everything he has, and it's going to be a fight. I look forward to it.

He used to play in the NFL, too. He's on the Pittsburgh Steelers. You know that? I did not. I did not. See, he's going to be a good athlete in there and really be moving around. I'm going to have to focus on my training, get my jabs going. I can't stand in front of them because he's going to be throwing those hammers at me.

Fort work is going to be key. from a competitive perspective and i mean surely from a fans perspective this card is is massive the main event the super fight between gagard musasi and douglas lehmah for the middleweight title i mean you've been a part of some big ones along the way you're part of the fador versus beta card pit bull versus chanler lemma knocked out MVP on that card where does this main event compare to the others because this is a damn good fight man i'm so excited to see fina i'm going there i love musasi but um ever since my second fight I've had a connection with Douglas. I feel like we're almost on the same team with each other.

And so it's really cool to see his success and see, like, his worldwide acceptance of how good he really is. It's going to be a monster fight. I can already hear the leg kicks booming. I've seen him all week. I haven't really talked to him. He looks focused. He looks so huge for 170. so it's awesome.

Before that happens, you are in the featured prelim. You get your own fight with Brandon Colton. Do we have a official Jake Hager prediction here? Well, every time I go and fight MMA, I have to promise Tony Kahn that I'm going to win, verbally, I have to tell them. So I'm going to win. That's my prediction.

Fair enough. Before we let you go, there is something I did want to ask you about from the wrestling world, because AW is definitely doing things much differently than WWE and NXT. And we saw it on, not this past, well, they're gone on tonight,

but last week's show, we saw Chris Jericho and MJF. They broke into song. And by the way, MJF's got some chops for sure. But there's always this, like, sort of battle between, like, today's wrestling fan.

And then there's, like, the traditionalists out there, like a Jim Cornette that sort of like poo-poo what AEW is trying to do. How do you sort of handle it? Like, I'm sure at the end of the day, you don't really care,

but how do you react when some of, like, the old-school pun of the sport just aren't picking up what you guys are putting down. Yeah, I don't care. I don't know who you liked the Jim Cornett official of anything. You know, I'm glad that we have such a strong following and that people are so passionate about our business. And in the end, this is art and art is always left up to interpretation.

So that's what it's there for. If you don't like it, that's fine. If you do like it, that's fine. The main thing is we like it. We're proud of it. And I am so proud of the work that AEW put out through the pandemic because I feel like having that unknown with the audience really kind of kept them on their toes.

And it made storylines a little bit more believable, a little more suspenseful. And it allowed us to do different things like Lay Dinner, Devonair. that allows us to do the stadium stampede. And it's really cool because pro wrestling, it's a world of possibilities. How creative do you want to be?

And so, like, why be limited into this little box when you can do so much more? If you have disbelief suspended, then go for it. Because in the end, it's all entertainment. It's all show business. And Jim Cornett is not tough. Do you see yourself maybe getting in on something like that, like a little outside of the comfort zone,

a little outside of the box, like maybe not singing and dancing, but I mean, I bet you do have some chops yourself, Jake, that we haven't seen yet. Well, MJF, he's a little known fact, but MJF, he was a child prodigy. He was one of those, like, young kids that went on Ellen, sing, dancing, and performing. And so he's very talented.

I 100% would be honored to be a part of anything like that. I think it's groundbreaking. And I think it will, you will see a singing dance, almost every month in wrestling storylines now too. Because, well, maybe not every month because not everyone can pull it off. But it is something that is going to be copied because everybody gets tired of two people just stand in front of each other tough talking each other. Like, we've seen it, we've done it.

Let's see if there's something else there. And who better than do that than Chris Jericho, the one top guy that has changed professional wrestling. 30 years, man. That's just so wild to think about, right? I mean, just watching this guy's career from, you know, Mexico, Japan, WCW, WW, and now in AEW. I mean, it's just wild. Like, is this like, I mean, people always talk about Rock and Austin and Hogan

and, like, the runs they had, but is this, like, the best run in professional wrestling history? What Chris Jericho has been able to do at this level for so long? It's hard to, you know, clarify the best. I think it's the best. But I think it's what isn't hard to clarify. is impactful. You look at the impact of what Jericho did when him and Kenny started tweeting each other

back in 2017. They had the entire internet works that, you know, they didn't like each other and that this was a match that was brought out of an argument online. And, you know, and we've just continued on that same pattern with AEW.

They don't waste anything. They used everything. That's why our characters seem pressure. That's why our storylines are more, they grab you more and it's really cool to see the finished product. Absolutely. Jake, I appreciate the time as always. I can pick your brain for another hour easily, but you got a fight to get ready for tomorrow as we record Mohegan Sun Arena,

Uncasville, Connecticut, Belcher 250 against Brandon Colton. All the best to you, Jake. Great catching up with you, man. Big thank you to Jake Hager, making his first appearance on what the heck, all the best him tonight against a guy who has been on a finishing rampage on the local scenes. This is a good test for Jake Hager coming up later today at Bellator 250.

As you move ahead to a man who had one of 2020's gnarliest MMA injuries, New England's Johnny Campbell. And you may have seen Friday, maybe Saturday morning as you woke up to prepare for UFC 254. There was a man who almost lost his ear in a fight on Friday night in Brazil at Tora M.A. 10. So let's get an update on everything from the man himself, Johnny Cupcakes Campbell. All right, we have Johnny Campbell joining us right now. This man has had quite a couple of weeks stretch.

He's a fighter from New England, took a short-notice fight in Brazil on short-notice to fight for the interim Banimate title against Ari Ferreus at Tora MMA-10. The fight begins. Ferreus has his back, and then the referee stops it. Why does he stop it? Because this man, Johnny Campbell's ear, was almost attached to there is from his head. It was just a gnarly scene, so I wanted to have Johnny on. and talk all about it, and I appreciate it very much.

Johnny, my friend, thank you for doing this. How are you, sir? Mike, fantastic. Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure to be on. I love being on, so, yeah, like we said, I wish it was under somewhat different circumstances, but as with anything in life,

everything is perfect exactly the way that it's going, and it's all about the perspective of the observer, and that's what I'm doing with this. It's like, it couldn't have gone better if that doesn't sound like, you know, almost psychopathic, but it's like, it went fucking perfectly. So, I mean, yeah, it's awesome. Actually, it's pretty hilarious. Well, first things first, before we kind of go chronologically through this whole thing,

how are you feeling? Like, how is the year right now? I mean, it feels pretty awesome. It feels a little bit swollen. That's like the only thing. So I think once the swelling goes completely down, it's almost going to look better than before. So both my cauliflower ears were pretty bad, but this one was somewhat grotesque looking. Just it didn't even look like cauliflower ear.

It looked like it was almost like mutilated. So, I mean, I think it's going to actually look better, you know? So, yeah, it feels pretty solid. I know that I can't do any contact. So I just can't wait to start, you know, sparring and rolling again. It's like the main thing is that, you know, sparring and rolling, even if I was. wasn't fighting. It's just like that's, I play video games. I teach people how to do martial arts and then I do martial arts. There's like the three things that I do. And I'm like,

you know, whatever it is, 36 hours in, I'm already going bonkers because I can't wrestle with people. So that's like probably the worst part right now. Has it like affected, can you hear out of it? Like, is it affected in that way at all? No, I mean, pretty darn good. Like, there's definitely still some dried blood in there that I can. I mean, they had me turn. over in order to sew it up and it was like just pooling blood in there so i haven't like got all of that out as of right now i see a doctor friday but um yeah i mean i can hear pretty darn good at the moment when the cauliflower was like falling off of my ear it was like blocking my hearing that was like one of the things i noticed that was like off but um uh yeah no i can hear pretty

darn good i think it's going to be like perfect well that's a great perspective on this and it's i've talked about this quite a bit on the show and other shows that this year has just been a nightmare for a lot of people it's been extremely tough on the regional mma scene very much so in our region in the country in new england like c s had an event a couple weeks ago but outside of that there hasn't been much going on because of all the restrictions and you've been ready i've seen you on facebook you've been looking for an opportunity for a while how did this fight in brazil come to be like when were you approached with this uh i was approached on saturday uh i was approached on saturday uh two Saturdays ago.

So I think it was like 13 days. I was at a grappling tournament. I had at least done one match at that point. And I got a text message from Mike Pauver, and he said, you know, I had a boxing match scheduled, actually. So I had just finally decided to f it. I was just going to do a boxing match. It was pretty short notice.

So I felt like it was like a small window a couple weeks. I could like just jump in, do it. And then an MMA fight might still come along. and just the universe being kind of a tricky little bitch. I had the boxing match and then the MMA fight comes on. So now I pull from the boxing match. I say, yeah, absolutely to a Brazilian fight in Brazil against a world champion jiu-jitsu fighter.

I didn't need, there was zero hesitation. I had put up an Instagram post in a few weeks. I think it was August 26th maybe. And I said, I will fight. any 35er on earth on two weeks notice. And sure enough, bam, Ari Furious, two weeks notice. Let's do it. So, yeah, I understand that Richie Santiago actually got, was approached first.

And just things didn't work. I mean, I don't think he was quite as, like, ready as fuck as I was. So I was, like, right about on weight cut time or weight cut schedule kind of weight. So I was ready to go. Richie said, hey, man, what about cupcakes? You know, he's on a tear. I know I love Richie for that. He came with me down there as well.

And then, yeah, it was pretty much off to the races immediately. I needed some medicals getting done for the Brazilian Commission. And then, yeah, and then I just needed to get my plane. I didn't have a corner right away. So my team is super, oddly enough, super active right this second. We had the Dark Horse. She took a short-noticed fight. Then Gianetti, he set up his fight that's this weekend, I think.

And then Christina Keseke, she also locked a fight down for Bellator that I don't know if she's doing for November 5th. So it was like four weeks in a row. And then I needed somewhat short notice to go down to Brazil and nobody really could. No passports or, you know, like Jojo would have absolutely done it for me. I went out to England with him, but he had a fight that he needed preparation for, you know, right then and there. So I had, like, nobody, Mike Poulverre, though, and Richie Santiago are animals, Cage Titans family, and came out with me and got the job done. But, yeah, it was a crazy little roller coaster ride. There were times that I was like, man, this fight's just not going to happen.

They were like, they were like hounding Pauver for medicals and certain things while I'm trying to, trying to get them done and it would get to a point where like 11 p.m. they'd be like hitting me up like, yo, dude, where are your medicals? Where, what's your, who's your corner man? Because we need to set your flights. I had people on the card from Canada hitting me up like, yo, dude, did you get flights yet?

Because we're waiting to make flights. And I'm like, no, I didn't. I wonder why we're not getting our flights. I mean, so it was like right down to the wire. And we end up, we end up making it happen. So it was just awesome. I mean, absolutely. perfect, beautiful experience. It was wonderful.

I know, like, kind of going through your career, like you, most of your fights were, like, with Cage Titans, reality fighting and others, but, and I know you had a fight for Titan FC, and I know that was in New England, too, was in Lull in 2014. So this was your first fight outside of New England, right? Yeah, I think so. I think so. Pretty darn. I can even, yeah, everything's been like Connecticut and Massachusetts and New Hampshire and stuff and things. Yeah, it was a huge opportunity. opportunity, huge opportunity. I mean, I had four wins in a row, all finishes against some of like Massachusetts biggest guys at the time. Like all guys were ranked in some way. So I was just set up like at the perfect time. I was waiting for like contender series or maybe Bellator. But I was ready for anybody. And I felt like Ari was just like a fantastic opportunity. I mean, he's a bad man, fantastic on the ground. But I felt like I, I, I could easily win that fight.

So it was like all in. And I was, you know, yeah, I was lucky in a way. So you guys are getting ready to fight. You have the way ins and you have the face off. And that's where things really got interesting with this fight, Johnny. There was some pushing and shoving. You guys had to be separated. A lot was said.

I know as soon as you got shoved that you're going to be saying some things. What happened there? Like, walk us through it from your perspective. It's a whole, like it was just an awesome. perfect thing like i i'm cutting weight i've incredibly hard weight cut that was like right to the last pound i mean 136 to 135 is is tough and i hadn't caught weight in like eight months and everything went pretty smoothly but it was just like arduous i felt like and i'm walking in to the place to weigh in and i see that he's off doing his interview and it was just like i don't know my

inner Cona McGregor or whatever it is, I was just like, I'm going to knock you out, Ari Frius, and I started yelling and got a little bit, like, hyped up. I thought I had no sweat left of my body, and all of a sudden my body is just perspiring for like no fucking reason. Like adrenaline was just raging through me. And I'm like yelling like a madman. I get on the scale. And it, in a video, he called me like a fan faro, which is like a joke or, I was told

there's no direct translation for what he called me, but it's like basically, he said that I was going to eat my words and that I was kind of like a joke. And I could kind of feel that he was revved up about it in a way. And he got on the scale and we were supposed to like step out and like look at the cameras first and then face off. And as soon as he came off the scale, I knew that he was coming to me. I could just tell that he was not going to go and face. So I stepped up and he pushed me. It was just perfect. Love it.

That's exactly what I wanted. I mean, I wanted so badly to just, I love the, I feel like fighting is definitely the center of what I do. But it's like, surrounded by a ring of a performance or like almost like somewhat of a costume, I guess. I mean, I am myself, but I know that this is about. excitement and drama and when he was in on it in any way emotionally it was like man it was like somebody shot me up with some kind of fantastic drugs so i stepped up and when he pushed me it was just oh i love it because i could tell and feel that he was trying to intimidate me and the simple fact that i was i was willing to fight him right there and i don't necessarily mean that i thought i was

gonna but in that moment i was i would have 100% just fought him and i feel like he knew that and if you watch the fucking tape closely when i come back at him he kind of like takes the first step back no doubt 100 he kind of steps back like oh shit he's very real right now and then we kind of barked at each other i had decided or said previously that i felt like he was going to most likely just sniff my crotch for most of the match like george mozviz voha mazvidal style like he just definitely was going to be trying to take me down. So I wasn't trying to be disrespectful. I love the Brazilian people, but I simply said that he was in a sniff my crotch and then I was going to put him to sleep because my intention was to knock him out. And I went good. He didn't take anything too

personally. I mean, it's business, but it's real. Like, I don't want people to think that it's totally pretend because, but it's a performance. And I'm in there to like to make it exciting. And I just loved that. Ari was kind of down for that. Hopefully, because I pulled him into it and I forced him into it. But he might have been having fun too, but it felt fucking real. I liked it, a lot. Yeah, it's a little bit of gamesmanship too. You want to see if you can push his buttons a little bit.

Exactly. I felt like I was. I mean, we got in that cage. I shit you not. That man would not look at me in the eye for more than a half, like a split second. His eyes were all over the place. He looked incredibly nervous in the cage. And I was like a lion looking at a piece of beef.

I just wanted to just get. on that man and it just did not, I can now go the way that it was supposed to go. So, but I think it's just building anticipation. You know, I said it a couple times. I feel like I have blue balls of the fists right now.

Like I wanted to punch him in the face so badly. And I was right in front of him. And then we just didn't get to like totally climax. So, uh, next time, look it out. That was very descriptive right there,

John. So, I mean, obviously a lot happened in 25 seconds. So I guess my question is, how did it happen? Like, did you feel the ear just start to detach? Like, did it all happen in one fell swoop? Did it slowly start to chip away? Like, did you even feel it? Like, what happened?

No, I mean, I didn't entirely feel it. So what, like, if you watch real close, the, he, I throw a low kick at his calf. It like half connects. He blitzes at that time. And like I like weave my head as he throws a right hand. And it's like my head is coming kind of up as his his fist is going down. And it just like pulled my ear off basically. And I felt like a very sharp hit.

It was like, wow, why did that just hurt so bad? Like I kind of saw the punch coming. and it was like, all right, we're going to get hit. And if you watch in the video, he hits me with, like, a couple of shots that are, like, kind of grazing. And then I, like, stumble backwards and kind of lose my balance because my body was like, holy fuck. Like, my mind was not totally focused on the feeling of, like, pain.

But it was like, that that smarted, like, way more than it probably should have. I don't know why. Like, I wasn't rocked, but it was like, yikes, that was sharp. And I kind of fall back and, like, end up bouncing off the cage. and I shot in on him. He kind of rotated to my back. He throws like an elbow to the directly to the back of my head. And I say, and there's a picture of me like yelling.

And it's because when he elbowed me in the back of the head, I go, yo, that was the back of the head. And the referee, I think he acknowledged it. I mean, people are saying that they think it's the elbow that that busted my ear, but it wasn't. I mean, I had like a soft spot on the back of my head from where he, elbowed me because I think he was so nervous he didn't even fucking think about what he was doing he just throws a elbow to the back of my head we roll it was only one off so it's not like it's a big deal and if again if you watch the video close i just watched on my computer like a big screen

or bigger screen for the first time the ear is already like it flops out as he kind of takes my back and it's because it just literally like it the top of the ear this all stayed right where it was but like this cauliflower just like fell outwards and he was going for the choke and i just remember like my body knew something was up but my mind was not interested in that information it was like a part of me knew yo something's not like right on the left side of your head but my mind was focused on fucking the world champion black belt on my back and all i can remember thinking is like man he's not nearly as strong as I thought. I figured if he's on my back, he's just going to rate my face and just crush my head.

And it was like, no, like he's not doing that. You know, he puts on a nice tight body triangle. I immediately get to my knees, which is generally not an easy thing to do when some, when a fucking world champ is on your back. And, you know, it's like I'm defending good. And then I see the blood on the floor. And I'm like, man, he caught me with that fucking punch. Like he did, it did not.

I did not think that was going to hit that hard. How did that happen? And I look, and the ref kind of looks at me a little bit awkwardly, and I'm continuing to defend. And then the ref comes in, and I was like, man, he's going to check this cut? Like, how bad could this cut really be? That shot was not that hard. This is kind of weird. And he, and I can still tell something's not right, but I don't know what it is.

He says, then he starts waving his hands off before he even says anything else. And I'm like, dude, I just took like, this just took two days to get down here. I cut 15 pounds yesterday. They have these motels that people go and like hook up in in Brazil. You can rent the room for like 12 hours at a time. It's like the only place you can find a sauna in Brazil or Rio. So we go to this seedy motel with a hot tub and a sauna and a rubber bed and we cut weight for fucking whatever it is, like 12 hours, like damn near 15 pounds. I was a little lighter than I normally am when I started dehydrating, but it felt like I was dehydrated already from the trip, like from flying for like 24 hours.

So it's like I didn't quite cut as much as I have in the past. It still felt like it was one of those like 15 pound fucking weight cuts. So it was tough, so tough. And now it's been like 40 seconds and he is stopping the fight. And I'm like, what is going on? And he says, no, your ear, it exploded. And I'm like, huh? My ear?

And then it kind of comes in. It was like, oh, that's what that feeling is on the side of your head. Like your fucking ears. Is it hanging off right now? And in the video, you can see I like reach up and kind of like cup it real quick. And yeah, yeah, it was like hanging off my fucking head. It did not really hurt all that bad necessarily. But it was just like, shit, I guess we can't continue, you know?

And then I already came over. he was fucking cool as fuck. You know, um, we made, we bowed or whatever, uh, and whatnot,

it was pretty, it was good. It was good times. They immediately got me out of there. I'm like, wait, we don't even get to, I don't even get to see him

get the belt on. They're like, nah, get to get the fuck out of here. Like, we have to sew that shit up. Thankfully, it was just like 20 stitches.

So 20 stitches. And I laughed a lot. It was kind of funny. So, just a wacky experience. Yeah. I mean, it's,

it's definitely a story you'll have forever. And, And, you know, I mean, when you're getting written up by, like, all these major websites and stuff, you're like, yeah, I got a contender series fight. Like, you're, you know, Johnny Campbell is a flash, KO highlight reel for, for Bellator. But now you're the guy with the ear right now. Like, it's crazy. You know, heading into UFC 254, you know, you were like one of the top stories of the day on Saturday. Like, well, I mean, it's not the best thing, but still, like, your name was out there is, are you okay with that?

Definitely, definitely. So it's kind of like that perspective I got it is 100% a good thing. I said it a little a couple times. An analogy, I feel like I'm in a pinball machine and I'm, I was like kind of bouncing around and I landed in one of those like holes where you get like the bonus. And I'm just fucking, it's like it feels for a second like I'm stuck, but I'm just like gathering so many points right now. I got so many Brazilian fans who are reaching out. They fucking just, like, they like gritty fighters, I think. And they, to like see somebody who, you know, like, you're watching the video and you're like, oh, yeah, shit, dude's on his back.

Oh, wait, they're stopping it. Why are they stopping it? And they're like, holy shit, his ear is fucking. How long did he fight with his ear hanging up? Like, as far as, you know, so you could be the greatest fighter, a fucking perfect. record immaculate and then you run into a brick wall and they can't fight through it where it's like my career is defined by never giving up like all of my struggles or most of them you know third world I mean first world problems probably have been in the cage it's like the and so people know that

I'm not going to ever give up so now it's like well can you back it up with good fighting and I think I think I've shown that I can. I think I've weeded out all like the mistakes and, you know, whatever it is that I went through throughout my career that didn't let me be one of those perfect fighters. But it's like I'm still standing here as one of the top guys. I'm like ranked number one right now coming off a fucking loss in the Northeast and I believe in New England as well. I'm like number eight right now in the United States behind mostly like UFC vets or current

UFC guys who haven't got off the regional list yet. It's like, and now I just need to get back in there. Toro's already talking about January for me. So as long as this year and I take care of it, I'm going to be in front of that huge audience again. And this time I intend on, you know, climaxing all over this man. So they're thinking about doing the rematch. Probably not.

Faris. I think, I mean, it is what it is. So, I mean, funny. He reached out to me after he's wicked nice, but I mean, we had a somewhat controversial ending to that fight, and he already said that he wants to, like, train together. So, I mean, I don't know if he doesn't want to fight me or whatever it is, but he's a champion right now.

He's the interim champ, so he's going to be fighting whoever that champion is for sure, and I'm excited to see how that goes. I'm looking to hopefully fight whoever the Torah feels is like, you know, if they do a rankings list, then I want to fight whoever is underneath. for real so that when that championship bout is available again if it's a rematch with him then that would be tremendous and whoever it is i just won a um biggest fights that i can possibly fight that's that's when i say that i want to fight the best uh 35 is on earth on two weeks notice i mean that 100% um i was

in there with that man and it would have been so glorious to be able to fight that fight to a a legitimate ending so um but everything happens for a good reason so i'm super blessed so did you sign like a multi-fight deal with them or it it feels like i did it feels like they're treating me as if i'm like part of their uh their organization now i mean they they um yeah they told me that i'm in on on january that uh they're they're saying that it feels great to have somebody like me in their organization. I mean, they were, yeah, they're treating me like a fucking king or something, it feels like. So, I mean, they could just have good PR, but it feels like I'm 100% going to be getting pushed in some way. They, you know, they reached out like the next day, like,

you know, could you please make an Instagram, like, post because, like, we're getting in-dated with people reaching out asking if you're okay and they want to know, like, how your ear is and stuff. So, I mean, the fans that they have, they have like 40,000 followers on Instagram, which is huge. And, yeah, they're, they're fantastic. I love them to death. I love the, I love the Brazilian people. They treated me fucking amazingly. So it's a great place.

So you think you're going to be ready to fight in three months? Yeah, I think so. I mean, the doctor said two months to start training again. I mean, doctors always ear on the side of caution. So, I mean, my intention is to stay somewhere. in shape. I mean, I'm 33. I'm not, when I was 23, I would just, you know, consume so much food after fights and stuff so that I would never be able to fight on short notice again for like several months. But like now I just, you know, my body doesn't run off of that stuff as good as

it used to. So I'm going to just naturally stay lighter. I mean, I can sprint. I can jump rope. I can shadow box hit mitts. Yeah, I mean, I feel like I've fucking done. so many rounds in the gym. It legitimately feels like I'm sparring when I go and I fight in a cage. I was fighting Ari Farias. I mean, you know, it felt like I was a sort of felt like a sparring match. I don't even really need a lot of hard sparring rounds anymore. So definitely, I think January, I'm ready to go. So you've gotten a lot of support here from the Brazilian fans. Clearly, New England always has your back. I did see that your old buddy Jay, Jay Perrin had some things to say, kind of scoffed at it, laughed at the result.

and I feel like, you know, once you fight locally again, I feel like that's the fight to make at this point. And I read some things that maybe they're going to try to put that on the CES car, but it never came to fruition. So, I mean, if you had the choice, are you going back to Tora or if, like, someone came to you locally and said you versus Perrin, CES, you know, 62 or whatever, like, what are you going to pick?

We did that one. I'd probably be weighing in that case there because there's just that I would love that fight. I mean, I'd give fucking powering an opportunity in front of the Torah fans. I don't care. Bring him in, and it's down in Florida. I mean, I'd feel like he's a pretty cheap date. I don't think that he would require much payment to get in the cage. So, I mean, I'd just bring him down there and smash him down there.

He knows I would whip that his ass. He knows it for sure. He's out of his mind. He's barking up the wrong tree. He would have been way smarter to be just like, yeah, dude, he's a fucking dog. You know, we'll mix it up in the future or something like that. to go and be so insecure that he needed to be literally the only person pretty much on earth to be like, yeah, dude, fuck that. He's a pussy.

He wanted out or some shit. It's like, please, please. He knows that I would whip his ass. I told him to fight me in October. CES would have loved to put that fight on. They would have loved to. That card was stacked. And if you put that card, that fight at the Co-Main, Maine, I mean, wherever, that would have been massive.

He's out of his mind. He said he needed two and a half months or something to make weight. It's like, bro, are you not ready to go? Like real fighters right now during COVID are training like animals and they're ready to go. I was ready to fight at 135 even against a world championship level fighter on 13 days notice. And then Jay Perrin is going to say anything. That dude is a, he's literally a joke. It's funny in a way that he would be the joker because he's a fucking joke.

I would smash the fuck out of him and he knows it 100%. He has zero chance. The only reason he beat me in that first fight is because I did not think he was going to fight like a pussy. He grabbed onto me. He held on to me. I was not fully prepared for that. It was my mistake. Fool me once.

Shame on what is it, right? Joe, I don't want to George Bush's shit. Shame on you. Shame on you. Then me. Yeah, man. Fool me twice. Shame on me. I will fuck that man up and he knows it. I am so far beyond him, but I would 100% smash him if he wanted it. So Torah, CES. I mean, I feel like I've always been Wolverine-like. And if I heal this thing up in a couple weeks, they take those stitches out and I feel good. I will fight in December potentially smash the fuck out of him and then go and fight in Torah in January. That's how I don't want to be. be too, too much, but this is literally how I feel. I feel like I see like Timaev and what he does. And I feel so comfortable fighting, you know, rip my ear off. I don't really care. I feel like fighting is one of the easiest things that I do. Cutting weight a thousand times more difficult than fighting. So I want to just fight as many times as I can. I feel like I could go for another five to seven years easy at the at like peak performance and and I'm ready to do that

and yes I would start it off with Jay Perrin I mean he yeah he's a bitch I mean seriously how refreshing was that I mean considering everything that happened to that man Johnny Campbell handling things like an absolute champion he says he wants to fight in January and if he does that is just unbelievable. Just unbelievable. And Johnny, listen, if this is the first time you're hearing or seeing Johnny Campbell, go to his tapology page, read up on him. This is a guy who has experienced the ups and the downs of the sport. His last year, year and a half, two years has been absolutely bananas, but really happy to have him on the show. I just wish it was under better circumstances, but really good stuff

from Mr. Cupcakes Johnny Campbell. We had to our final chat of the show, Dustin Chacobi, back at the UFC back on the show. He returns to the Octagon for the first time since January of 2012 when he was submitted by Chris Komosey at UFC on Fox 2. UFC on Fox 2. That was a long time ago. He moved on to a kickboxing career. He still sprinkled in some MMA fights for the likes of Bellator, Titan FC, World Series of Fighting from around 2012 to, I don't know, early 2015, something like that, but mostly fights for glory kickboxing. He returned to MMA competition in June of last year in Colorado for Sparta Combat League.

And on that night, he won a boxing match, a kickboxing match, and an MMA fight against a former UFC heavyweight in Cody East. He did that all back to back to back, all in the same night. Three fights, three different disciplines, three different versions of combat sports, and he won all of them. Gets on the contender series,

put on a hell of a show against Ty Flores, and Dana White gave him his chance at a second UFC run. He is back this Saturday against Justin Liddette on Halloween at UFC Vegas 12. Here he is, Dustin Jacoby. All right, we have Dustin Jacoby back on the show. He returns to the hallowed UFC Octagon for the first time in almost nine years on Halloween. He takes on Justin Lidette. Dustin, good to see you, man.

How are you? Good, man. You know, training's going well. and I'm excited for Halloween this year. There you go. How is, obviously you have a fight coming up, but how's the golf game these days?

I mean, there's still very few feelings in the world better than hitting a good golf shot, right? 100% man. I haven't been playing as often, September hit, and I started chasing elk in the mountains, you know, archery elk season. And I think I played one time in September

a couple times, you know, this month. But I'd slowed down, but I still, we were going to try to get out this weekend, but it's supposed to snow here on Sunday. Like, yeah, there's like a higher than 60% chance. So I think golf season is kind of winding down, but I always usually get out in December. There you go. Yeah, I think the latest I go, because we're in Massachusetts, we try to get out the day after Thanksgiving,

because, like, nobody's out there. It's always like 30 degrees. It sucks, and you can't put for anything, but it's still fun. You got to want to be out there. For sure. So we spoke right after you got the comment. contract back to the UFC on the Contender Series. And you said that regardless of what Dana White or anybody else said, you knew that someday

the second chance with the UFC would come. So as you're preparing for this fight, how would you say this camp compares to maybe the Contender Series one? Is there like a different kind of nerves or is this just another camp for just another fight? You know what? Honestly, I don't feel any nerves. I feel more, I'm just anxious. I'm ready to go out and perform.

And I felt that way, you know, dating back like seven, eight fights ago. um like 2016 is 2016 2016 2015 16 is when like the nerves kind of went away and I was more just ready to go out there and perform and just showcase all of the hard work and that's being done in the gym and in the dark and um you know ready to perform under the lights so no nerves man um I'm feeling excited I win lose or draw I'm going to go out there and I'm going to put on a good performance you know I I know I'm more than ready to to step. I've been there. I'm prepared. And now it's time to execute. What, like, how would you compare to, like, the first run with the UFC in those two fights? Like, what was the feeling like in those camps? Like, I know it's, I mean, you've got so much more experience now than you did then. You've gone through, like, so many different levels of combat sports and all in this different road that you've, that you're on to get you to where you're at. But how different was it back then? Oh, yeah, it's night and day difference, man. Back then,

you know, a lot of emotions would be into it. I've learned that, you know, too much emotion is not a good thing. You want to be, you want to be a little, I'm usually a little emotional, but if you, if you fight on emotions, it's never a good thing. And back then, I always thought I was ready. I'd get, like, real pumped up. I thought I had to, like, get myself mad or angry or psyched up, you know, and now it's more of, you know, it's my job. This is what I do for a living. And, and, you know, I train daily. I prepare daily. So it's an opportunity to go out there and execute, whereas in the past, you know, I was just going, I don't know, I guess. looking at it now kind of walking blindly, so to speak. I mean, it sounds weird, but I mean,

I feel like I was preparing properly back then, but nowhere near what I do these days. And you just get much more comfortable in there. And like I said, I'm excited to go, you know, perform. It's kind of like a freeing feeling, I guess. I mean, it's, I mean, you're getting in there and about to throw punches and receive punches from another human being in a lock cage. But it's got to be more freeing than it did than it felt maybe eight years ago, right? 100% man. I mean, it's so much. And everything about it, like the fight week back then, I remember my first fight in Vegas, you know, and all my friends and family were there and they were going out and, you know, having fun each night and I would want to be with them and not realizing the task

at hand and, you know, the opportunity that I have in front of me. And I think that this time around, you know, it's really going to show. I'm so excited. I feel comfortable. The U.S. And I think another thing that helps too is knowing that it's going to be at the apex center with no fans. I mean, everything about it seems different right now. It seems much more underground, which I've always done really well on regional shows. I've always performed well when, you know, there's not a big, big hooplau around it. And I'm excited to get back to the fans, especially now in the UFC, you know, to go out there and rock it. But I feel like it's a little bit easier now without them because the pressure is, is less.

It just seems like it's not there. And you're kind of just in a big room with just a small audience, you know, 10, 15 people watching you. So there's no pressure, man. And even with the pressure, I welcome the pressure. You know, I say pressure is a privilege and honor. You know, I mean, somebody gives a shit about what you're doing. So that's, I mean, the timing just seems perfect right now, not just because of what you just said, but, you know, your team over at Factory X is just riding this damn good wave of momentum.

after Fight Island with Royval and Vendermini, James Kraus has got to win. I know Yusuf took his first UFC loss, but it was a fun fight because he's such a gamer. Alex Hernandez is on this card with you as well. His first fight under the Factory X banner. What's the vibe like over there right now? Dude, the vibe is rocking. I mean, there's something special brewing over there at Factory X that we've had going for, you know, a couple years now and even longer than that.

You know, everybody, you know, coach was talking to us the other day and he was like, hey, man, I had one of you guys reach out to me and say, Brandon changed his life. life in two fights. And coach was like, you know what? You're wrong. Brandon changed his life, you know, when he was 16 years old and he was writing his bicycle to the gym and, you know, never missing a class. And even when he was injured, he'd be sit on the sidelines, taking notes.

And, you know, Brandon is that guy, man. He's going to be the champ at 125. And we all know it. We've all known it for years. Brandon knows it. And everybody else, just being surrounded by all those people, you know, we say iron sharpens iron and that's exactly what it is it's so inspirational to watch those guys to see your coach on tv every weekend to see your teammates on tv and having success you know it's just raising the bar and

everybody's leveling up because now i want to go out there and outperform those guys you know and then they're going to go out and outperform me and we just keep raising the bar and it's pretty cool man how tired is mark one toyer right now i mean the guy was on friggin fight island for for like a month wasn't he yeah yeah i think it was like five five weeks six weeks something like that but yeah he came back. His schedule was all messed up, but he was still in the gym. And yeah, he's happy to be home. We're happy to have him back. You know, it's good to work with coach. And he really is a great leader, man, a great mentor, a guy that when I fight, I do enjoy having, you know, in my corner because I know just the way he looks at me, the way he talks to me. He's been through it. He knows what's going on.

And, you know, just a great guy. So let's talk about the matchup because you're going to be facing Justin Liddette, a man who came into the UFC as a heavyweight. He was unbeaten in his first 10 fights. Then he makes a decision despite the success to drop down to 205. And since then, he hasn't been able to pick up a win. He's still a guy who's put a lot of guys away in his career. His back is against the wall here. How did you like the matchup when it was presented to you? Yeah, when it was first presented to me, I was actually on the golf course. I got a call from coach, my manager. And I had an interview. I was talking about this like a week ago. And he's like, well, how did you play after you got the

call and I honestly I couldn't remember I was like I you know I know I probably lost focus a little bit well a buddy of mine who I was with that I played with he's like dude he's like you don't remember I'm like what he's like you got the call wait I got the call we're on a T box on that hole I it was a par five I chipped in for eagle and I ended up to shoot in the 80 that day I was like how did I forget that but you know it was it was back in like middle August so I wish during that interview I could have phoned a friend you know and asked him but I was like man, if I get that opportunity again, I have to mention that. So I got the call, dude, and I was pumped. I was with, we had two groups, you know, eight, seven other buddies. And, you know,

I let them all know, everybody's jumping, hollering, we having a great time, you know, it's right after my last fight. So, you know, we were just having a really good time. And, uh, and then I took it later that day, you know, I looked at Justin Liddette, started looking them up a little bit. And I absolutely loved the matchup. And I told coach, man, like, this is like a, you know, a tailor-made matchup for me. And he's like, I know. That's why we accepted the fight. And with that being said, man, just in the day, I mean, he's a gamer.

Everybody in the UFC's tough. He's very good. He's good everywhere. He's a good boxer. He shoots takedowns. He's good on the ground. And he's a big guy. So, and take all of that.

The guy's 0 in his last three fights. He's fighting for his job. So I anticipate that I'm going to be fighting the most game, the most ready, you know, the most skilled Justin Liddette that's went to the UFC Octagon. And, you know, I welcome that, man. I've been in the ring with some absolute killers. And, you know, I've had my time that where I've taken some losses and I've taken some else. I think that's just hardened me over my career.

And now I'm ready to go out there and end his career with the UFC and start mine. Yeah. And to sort of touch on what you just said, because, I mean, like you said, you've been a guy, you've had your ups and your downs in the combat sports world and you've experienced a lot over the years. So having said that, I'm curious. Is there more motivation heading into a fight coming off of a win or coming off of a loss, in your opinion? Well, you know, the old saying, like, your next fight's always your hardest fight. I think mentally, at least for me, whether I, you know, lost my last fight or whether I won my last fight, I don't really think about that.

I just think about what's next, you know, what's ahead. You know, I don't necessarily fight harder because I lost last time and I don't fight easier because I won, you know? I just, I prepare for each fight, you know, the way it's supposed to be. I, you know, I'm prepared. And it's just about out there, going out there and performing under the lights and executing during the time, the 15 minutes that you're allowed. Have you always been like that? No, I haven't, man.

I mean, I guess my mind, I've never thought about wins or losses, but I just feel like I just prepare much better these days. You know, I'm a little older. I'm 32. I'm more mature in my career. you know and I look at it more like a job you know there's there's things that must be done in order to check the boxes and win the fights and and you know sometimes you don't have choices like you just don't I mean if you want to succeed and you want to win that you can't go one way

that there's only one line and you have to check those boxes and you don't have choices you've got to do what it takes in a weird way I think feel like this is kind of, not completely, but kind of like a deja vu fight from the Flores fight, because Justin's a very durable guy. Like he got finished by a ridiculous combination from Johnny Walker, like the hook kick into a spinning back to this combination. But that's the only time he's been put away in his career and he's been in trouble a few times. I know you're going to go in there and you're going to look for the highlight real finish,

but, you know, did the experience of your contender series fight hitting tie with everything but the kitchen sink and somehow him still going the full 15? Does that give you a nice little boost knowing that, hey, if I don't get them out of there quick, I'm good for 15 minutes. Yeah, absolutely. And another thing is, you know, with Ty Flores, I was, it was a huge opportunity, you know. It was like a statement to get back to the UFC to make my mark to show Dana White that I was ready. And, you know, that entire day, I was just, I wasted a lot of energy. And with this fight, I'm going to be much more calm.

I'm going to be much more poise. I'm certainly going to try to put them out because that's what I, I do it. Every fight I fight, you know, I go for the knockout. I go for the finish. But if the fight does go 15 minutes, I think I'm going to be more reserved. Not that I'm going to hold back. I just, you know, I've just been preparing, you know, a little bit more, I guess you could say. I've really focused on my cardio. And like you said, I know Justin's a tough guy. I know he's very durable. And, you know, you look at those losses. Those are just some top name guys, some high level guys. So, I'm excited to push the pace with them. You know, I'm certainly going to be trying to finish the fight and going all out, going for broke, but it's going to be in a much more poised manner. What's cool about this card as well is you're on the same card with Anderson Silva,

who was the middleweight champion the first time you were in the UFC. And according to Dana White, and I think he conferred him himself earlier this week, this is going to be the final fight of Anderson Silva's career. So what does that mean to you to be on this card sharing you with Anderson Silva, knowing that this could be the very last time he steps into that cage? Oh man, it's awesome. Just to be in the presence of Anderson Silva, you know, the go.

When I first started this sport, he was the guy that like just blew your mind every time he stepped in there. And everybody wanted to be like him. And I just, I always looked up to him and to be able to be, you know, in the same fighter meeting as him and the same presence as him. And now an opportunity to go outperform him. You know, I want to, I'm not fighting him, but I want to steal the show. I want to be the talk of the night. I want to be the guy that everybody's talking. about, you know, the new light, heavyweight prospect that just stirs up the whole pot.

So it's going to be awesome. It's going to be super motivational. And if it is his last fight, man, what a career. Hats off to Anderson. I can't wait to, you know, pay my respect to the guy and shake his hand and meet him. And what's sad is that, you know, if it is his last fight, it'll be in an arena with no fans, you know. That'll be kind of a bummer for him especially. but, you know, I feel like that would be just kind of, I don't know, it's different, you know,

2020's been different. I know, D.C. and Anderson Silva both having their last fights and no fans. I couldn't imagine doing that because the crowd, like there's something that unless you've done it, and especially on that level with that many people and under those kind of lights and circumstances, like, there's nothing better than making that walk and just hearing the crowd and everybody going nuts and seeing the people and just all the emotions and excitement, and the people booing you and the people cheering for you. And it's just awesome, man.

So hopefully my last fight won't be at the Apex Center. It'll be in front of an audience. But, you know, what can you do? So you mentioned this is, you know, interesting times. 2020 has just been, let's be honest. I mean, it's been a great year's career-wise for you because you're back in the UFC. But overall, it's been kind of a suck year. But did you enjoy, because I watched a video this morning,

did you enjoy giving yourself the no-stubes? swab COVID test. How would you describe that? I feel because sure, you have to do it yourself and you can half ask it, but if you get it wrong, then you have to do it again. I know, man. That's what I'm worried about because we're on, we're on a Zoom call. When I first got, I'm like, well, why wouldn't I just have somebody else do this? And I send it in and I're on a Zoom call. I'm like, oh, man, you're right. But I go and I do it and it's just miserable because anything that goes up my nose, like, I, I sneeze instantly. I just can't stand it. So I don't know if I got high enough. I don't know if

you know, I got deep enough in there. Who knows? And like you said, if I have to do it again, that's going to suck. But, man, it's not enjoyable. I'd much rather do the mouse swab. So how do we get this thing done on Halloween? You're doing this for a reason. You're sticking swabs up your nose to get the victory, maybe do some bonus hunting. UFC's first event back in Vegas.

How do you give the company a happy homecoming on Halloween? Man, I'm going to go out there and just be me. I'm going to fight hard. I'm going to fight fast. I'm going to be first. You know, that's another thing with the dead. I anticipate him to come out and go, but he is kind of a slow starter. He is kind of a guy that he doesn't strike first.

I feel like he's capable of it, but he holds back a little bit from what I've seen. And hopefully he comes out firing, and, you know, we get that fight of the night bonus. But I know I'm going to strike first. I know I'm going to go after him, and I'm going to look for the finish, man. And if I get it, awesome. And if I don't, I know it's going to be the best 15 minutes that everybody's seen of me. And, you know, I'm prepared, man. I'm ready to do this.

I got Cobra Kai vibes by you saying Strike First. I don't know if you've watched the Netflix show at all. I started watching it. I watched like the first two episodes, but I need to get back and finish it, man. I'm terrible about Netflix. I always start a show after two or three episodes. I start something else. And I've got like 20 different shows I'm watching and I lose track.

It's, yeah, it's hard to keep up with. Yeah, wait until after the fight. Because once you get to like episode four and five, you're not going to be able to stop. So get that. And that's what everybody said too. It's like the Harry Potter books. I remember back in junior high,

everybody's reading Harry Potter. I remember I read like the first 70 pages. I was like, not for me. And then I went back to it and I read the next six books. Like as soon as they came out, it was an addiction. Like I had every single night.

The only books at that time in my life and until really this year that I had read. I mean, I just, I don't know what it was, man. I was addicted. Well, I'm excited for the card,

man, excited for the return. Really excited. to see you make that walk to the octagon once again nearly nine years in the making dust and really appreciate the time as always glad we got to link up again and uh congrats on the chip in eagle man i haven't been able to experience that in my golf career yet oh man it was so much fun and i remember when i did it like i was just like running around you know soaring my arms like an eagle and everybody's kind of screaming and yelling and uh yeah it was a lot of fun but what's really cool about uh you know i made

my Octagon debut October 29th, 2011. And here I am, October 31st, coming back, making that walk nine years later, man. So, oh, man, it's emotional. I'm excited, dude. And like I've been saying, I'm running down a dream. So I'm pumped. The universe is lining up in a lot of ways for you, man. This is, it's Kismid personified.

There he is, Dustin Jacoby, wrapping up another edition of What the Heck on MMA fighting. Always appreciate. You guys and gals checking up the show. It means a lot. And I can't believe it's been seven months since I started at MMA fighting. What a crazy year. 2020 has been. I'm just honored and proud to be a part of this team.

And speaking of that, I wanted to give a shout out to my guy, my buddy Jose Youngs, who did the damn thing, did the entire trip to Fight Island. He killed it. He's finally back home in the U.S. Hopefully he's getting some more rest. I know he did the A side on Wednesday. The guy is a trooper. Big kudos to Jose Young's.

And that's it. Big thank you to you all for watching and listening to the program. Big thank you to Casey Leiden on the production side. A giant thank you to Jose and Alex Savis for all the graphics and dealing with me asking them for what seems to be a million things every single day to make this show happen from different graphics to different PSDs. This is inside base. We probably don't even give a crap what I'm talking about.

Big thank you to them. They rule. We are done. We'll see you next week right here on what the heck. And as always, have a heck of a week, everybody. Podcast Network.