MMA Fighting - What the Heck: Episode 32 | Robert Whittaker, Kevin Holland, Lauren Murphy & Adrian Yanez

Episode Date: November 5, 2020

This week on What the Heck, MMA Fighting's Mike Heck chats with former UFC middleweight champion Robert Whittaker (6:03) about his UFC 254 win over Jared Cannonier, Israel Adesanya's move to 205, Dana White saying he didn't want to fight Adesanya, and more. Adrian Yanez (24:44) recaps his octagon debut knockout win over Victor Rodriguez at UFC Vegas 12, talks sharing his first promotional bout with Anderson Silva's last and the importance of mental health during trying times. Lauren Murphy (51:27) talks her UFC 254 win over Liliya Shakirova, Cynthia Calvillo's recent comments, Calvillo getting booked for a fight against Katlyn Chookagian, and what led her to signing with new management. Finally, Kevin Holland (1:11:10) discusses becoming the first UFC fighter to go 4-0 in 2020 following his first-round finish of Victor Rodriguez, Israel Adesanya, and wanting two more fights before the year ends. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. This is What the Heck with Mike Heck on MMAFiting.com. Now, here is your host, Mike Heck. What the heck? Well, hello there, everybody, and welcome to a brand new edition of What the Heck right here on MMAfighting.com. I am Mike Heck. Hope you've had a great week.

I know it's been a bit crazy here in the United States with the election going on. And it's been crazy in the heck household as well. been wild for a number of reasons, but nobody really cares about that. You guys want to talk MMA and hear from the fighters. And we'll do that on this week's program like we do each and every Thursday. 10 a.m. Eastern Standard Time, of course, we are coming out of UFC Vegas 12 this past Saturday. Uriah Hall finishes Anderson Silva in the main event. But it appears if Anderson's legendary UFC career has come to an end.

But again, we talked about this on between the links. that is his decision to make and I know I sound like a broken record at this point but he looks pretty good against your eye haul like he looked pretty good in that fight like if that was a co-main event he might have at worst lost a split decision and you can argue

he would have won that fight if it was a three round fight but listen that's one of those rabbit hole topics the what ifs that we could break down and talk about forever but if it is it for Anderson Silva what a career started off 16 and oh in the UFC Longtime middleweight champion. The last eight years or so, not particularly ideal, but no doubt one of the best ever for sure. And you take a look at Uriah Hall.

This is a guy who at 36 years of age, he's won three in a row. He's a top 10 guy at 185 and now adds the biggest name to his resume. So it's going to be interesting to see what is next for him. I think him and Derek Brunzel would be a good fight. I like kind of like the Chris Wyman ideal for being honest. I know ideal. idea, idea. Sometimes in Massachusetts we like combined words, but that one makes absolutely no sense. But I like the Chris Widman idea. Okay, they fought a long time ago on the regional scene. I think it was

Uriah Hall's fifth professional fight. So you get a little bit of a storyline there. I think Wyden's ranked ninth. Hall's ranked 10th. Wyden's a good name. I like that idea if they can make that happen. But overall with UFC Vegas 12, the card was entertaining. There's a lot of finishes. Bryce Mitchell gets his fifth UFC win. Remains undefeated, defeated Andre Feely. He continues to roll camo shorts and all, but it was a fun card. A lot of finishes, a lot of good stuff. But there's a lot that has come out of the last couple of weeks. One thing that people brought up to me about between links is why did you not talk about Habib Naramagamatoff, Dana White saying you might come back and go 30 and O. It's a little too

premature to talk about that. I mean, we just gave this guy his potential sendoff. And to come back and talk about it a week later without actually hearing from Habib didn't really want to jump on that that quickly. I would venture to guess. I feel pretty confident that we will talk about it on this Monday on between the links. But another big topic that came out of the event on Saturday and from Dana White, he reveals that Israel Adisania is not fighting Robert Whitaker. He's not fighting the winner of Jack Hermantan versus Darren Till to defend his middleweight title. No, he's going up to 205 pounds to challenge Jan Blahovic for the light heavyweight title. Wow. I'm not surprised by it. And I've said many times before, I think Whitaker's timeline is going to, is going to

hurt him here in getting the next shocks. I know Adasani wanted to turn around relatively quickly, but for Dana White to come out and say that Robert Whitaker didn't want the fight, it just doesn't seem like that's the case at all. And we're going to have more on that later on the program for sure. But the timing was crazy because you get Tiago Santos and Gloverte de Chara fighting this Saturday. That seemed like a number one contender fight at 205. And what does that main event to fight even me now. So it's just crazy. There's so much going on in the sport. Let's get to the fighters themselves and hear what they have to say. So wrapping us up, speaking of Israel Adasania, one fighter that got the champ's attention while he was enjoying the card this past Saturday.

Kevin Holland will join us. We did drop that chat on Wednesday, a day early, but if you missed it, you'll hear from the Trailblazer after his fourth win of 2020 over Charlie Anteveros at UFC Vegas 12. See where he may go from here. Always enjoy talking with Kevin Hahn. Lauren Murphy's going to join us once again. If you miss that, if you miss the conversation I had last week with Cynthia Calvillo a few days ago, she had a lot to say about Lauren Murphy taking the fight against Lillia Shakarova because they were originally scheduled to fight at UFC 254. She wanted to rebook that fight with Lauren and now Cynthia's fighting Caitlin Chukagan on November 21st at UFC 255. And I wanted to get Lauren's reaction to all that

where she goes. Plus, she has made some changes in her career. She was very open. and honest about the business of MMA and some hurdles she's had to overcome. So you'll hear more about that change that she's made coming up later on in the program. What an impressive UFC debut it was for Adrian Yannas this past Saturday. He knocks up Victor Rodriguez in vicious

fashion, walk off kick. It was picture perfect, but he got himself that elusive first UFC win, got himself a bonus, and we'll check in with one of the bright and up-and-comers at 135 pounds. Bannamway is just absolutely ridiculous. So we'll get Yana's reaction to the victory. and where he goes from Saturday night in around 20 minutes or so.

But first, let us check in with the former UFC middleweight champion of the world. Robert Whitaker, the man picked up a big win over Jared Cannonier at UFC 254 in the co-main event. And it seemed like he was in line for the rematch with Adasania. And then, as we spoke about just a few moments ago, that is no longer the case. So I wanted to get Bobby Knuckles on the show. A lot of people reaching out saying get Robert Whitaker. We got him. He's here on what the heck for the very first time.

All right, we have made it happen, ladies and gentlemen. A lot of people hit me up lately say, Mike, you got to get Robert Whitaker on the show. And man, we made it happen. I appreciate it very much. A lot to discuss with the former middleweight champion of the world. It has been a minute, Robert Whitaker. How are you, sir? I'm good.

I'm good. It's good to be here. It's great to have you here. The last time you and I spoke, it was before the Derek Brunson fight. So it's been around four years, and I'm happy we could reunite all these years later. But first things first, great win in the co-made event. of UFC 254, very tough guy and Jared Kandaneer. You have two straight wins now. First off, give us your thoughts on the performance and the kind of fight it was because obviously the big

story became Habib finishing Gaiji and then subsequently retiring. But your fight with Jared was really fun, really entertaining. And you looked fantastic. What did you think of your performance overall? Yeah, I'm very happy with it. Me and my team, I have a great team and we worked a game and planned diligently over the weeks and months leading up to the fight in the fight. In the fight, it worked flawlessly. I had the discipline to stick with it. So I was very happy with the execution of the game plan and my performance as a whole, just in the fight itself. You know, I love to make exciting fights. I love to have fights that are back and forth and exciting and look good. And, you know, I feel that fight tick those boxes. Yes, I would agree with that. Jared was landing those

leg kicks early on, but you were able to sort of walk through that fire. I thought you won the first round. It was kind of up in the air on Twitter. But third round was wild. because you had him badly, badly hurt with that quasi Robert Whitaker's accommodation that always seems to land. This one landed in a big way. I thought the fight was going to be over. The man is able to survive and even had you in some trouble in the third. Are you just like, you got to be kidding me right now. How was this man still in this fight right now?

I wasn't in trouble, mate. There was no trouble. Yeah, it was a resilient guy. I knew he was a resilient guy. I knew he was tough. So I had to temper myself and, you know, roll with that when I was in the position of trying to finish him. And then just, it's a fight. It's a fight.

You know, that's what happens. There's ups and downs and flows and ebbs and it's crazy. What has been really great to see over these last couple of fights is just how free you are in there, not just in the cage, but out of it. You're marching to the beat of your own drum, so to speak. You're just so happy. you're loving the sport, for the most part anyways, more than that in a moment. But what has been the key for you? Because especially during these crazy times, folks need some inspiration, some positivity.

How have you been able to get yourself in such a good place these days? Yeah, you know, I'm very happy where I am right now. A big thing was just decluttering what was up here, just taking everything away, freeing my space, like giving myself a blank canvas and then just slowly adding things on organized in an organized way. And just being able to do that mentally has just freed up so much space. Everything feels organized. Everything is exactly as you said, I'm marching to the beat of my own drum. I'm doing my own thing.

I'm doing what I want. I'm enjoying it. And yeah, I'm in a really good place right now. I guess this whole year, for me in particular, and I think probably for a lot of people, it's just been about soul searching. It's about spending time by yourself. It's about finding. It's about exploring.

the inner depths of what you enjoy, what you want to do, how you handle certain situations, while you handled them the way they, the way you did. It's, uh, when I was, when I was working on it, it was a bit too much, to be honest. Really? But yeah, but here, here I am, you know, a happy man. What was kind of the most interesting thing you found within yourself during, during that time? Because, I mean, when you're alone, a lot of ways to think and go down so many different rabbit holes, but, you know, what was the thing that you were just like, man, this is a, I didn't really

know this about myself. Yeah, I'm just, I'm just a pain in the ass. I annoy myself, so I can't, I can't imagine what my wife and kids put up with. Yeah, I'm, yeah, I guess like, I'm just, a little askew from the normality line, you know, I'm just a little off it. And, uh, I make myself laugh. That's, that's, that's all it is. Yeah, I mean, if you can't, if you can't be happy around yourself, and you know what I mean? Especially during this time, you got to be able to be around yourself a little bit. But that great attitude carries over into your post-fight scrum at UFC 254. I loved the coffee over Crystal's comment. I was cracking up listening to that. But I thought you laid it out perfectly. And listen, you said it best throughout this,

and it's kind of created this whole misunderstanding here. You said essentially, I'm down to to fight Israel Adasania in the rematch of the middleweight title, but I want to have Chris with my family. I have a child that's about to join us in the world. I would like my time to do that. And then in March or April, I'd be happy to fight. And initially, my thought was, all right, Robert's going to do that. We got Hermanson versus Till coming up. If the winner of that can turn around relatively quickly, you can do Adasani versus the winner of that fight. And then the winner can fight you. Might be April, May, June, but that seemed like it would be okay with you. And then on Saturday, Dana White said that you flat out just didn't want to fight Israel to Sanya. And now he's

going to go up to 205 and fight Jan Blahovic for the light heavyweight title, which the timing of that announcement was just so weird to me, Robert. So let me ask you this. Was that fight ever offered to you like officially? Was there a date attached to it? Or did he just completely misconstrue what you said? Yeah, that far was never offered to me. There wasn't even talks up in the air. There was no no correspondence at all. And I guess that's the, that's the most confusing factor. And then the most annoying part about the whole mess is just that there was no discussion. There was no communication. There was no dialogue.

And, you know, that's annoying. Yeah, he twisted my words around. It's, I think because he had his own designs and the UFC, when I say he, I mean, like him and the UFC as an organization, I understand that Dan White doesn't personally want to do things, right? Or maybe he does. But I think they wanted that fight. That's a money fight.

for them. I think that's a fight they wanted to push. And that's the only reason I can see that. The only fight that makes sense for me, and I was very verbal and open about it. I want to fight out of Sunday. It's the only fight I want. I just don't want it around Christmas. I have things on. And that was the biggest thing for me after the fight and the conferences and the media and stuff is just getting my timeline out there, understanding and letting people know that, yes, I want this fight. This fight is the only fight that makes sense to me. It's a fight that I earned the total fight is my right after beating Jared because that's that's the type of fight it was there's a contender fight so that's the fight I earned but I have I have to be there for my

my family and my kids and my I'm born you know my the newest member that's going to be joining my family in January that that's my biggest that's my most the highest priority right now is to get my timeline out there and then I work around that but it is what it is I guess we got to We've got to wait and see. Right now I'm sitting that. That's the only fight. That still is the only fight that makes sense for me. That is the fight that I have a right to, that title fight.

I guess I either just, I fight him at 185 or I meet him up. If he beats yarn, then I go up to light heavy and bash him there. You mentioned, I mean, you're in a very good place in the sport. You're having fun. You're enjoying what you're doing. But is there like a small part of you when things like this happen that wishes you had any other job on the planet because with any other job on the planet, your timeline would not be a problem whatsoever. You would get the time off. They would celebrate it. They would give you

everything that you needed. But here, it's a problem for some reason. Yeah, this, this sort of stuff just shits me up the wall. Like, it is, it is the one part. Like, it's, it's a part that I do hate about the sport. I, I hate all these political sort of plauds. and plans and I just hate it. It's such a pain of us. Like, I'm a fighter. I'm a warrior. You know, you put me up against an opponent.

You tell me to fight this guy. I'm happy to do that. Don't get me wrong. I'm not a thug. Like, I'm not just a dude that wants to go bruising and it's fighting people. But, like, I am a warrior. This is what I do. This is my trade.

But I don't like dealing with all that. Like, it's very straightforward. It's supposed to be very straightforward. That's why the rankings are there. That's why there's why there's, a ladder. That's why it's supposed to be very simple, but it's not. You made it as clear as day. Like, you could not have laid this out of better, Robert. Like, you didn't say, I want out of sign you, but you got to pay me $10 million to do it, or the money's got to be right. I want a new

contract. I want this of that. You basically said, like, give me Christmas and give me the birth of my child, and then I will fight him anytime you want after that. I don't understand what the problem is here. I don't get it. You and me both. You, me, a lot of my fans, a lot of other media. Just about everybody else. Don't get it. But it is what it is. All we can do is just roll with the punches. I'm still going to enjoy Christmas and the birth of my child.

And then worry about the rest afterwards. See what Adasania and Jan's on and take it from there. How do you think he matches up with Jan? Like the odds have him as a pretty hefty favorite. But, you know, Jan's been on a tear as of late. He's one of the more like underrated fighters in 2020. Just finished Dominic Ray. which is massive.

How do you like Israel's chances in that fight? I think, I think, Jan is one of the most underrated fighters. I think he's a great fighter, but I just don't think he matches up very well against Israel. I think Israel would have to be a heavy favorite. I think Israel,

he's a big guy to begin with. He's a tall guy, and he has a very high caliber skill set to fight Reyes. I would have to say, Israel's got some of the best striking in the world. He's just, you know, and then you give him the physical attributes he does,

have the experience and I think he beats Jan. But like I said, I think Jan is one of the most underrated fighters in the world, as well as he hits like a truck. That changes fights. We'll have to wait and see. Sure does. At this point, do you feel like Hermanson and Till, especially if Hermanson wins, like that might be next for you at this point?

Like, I know you deserve Israel and that should be the only fight, but are you even interested in anything else at this point? there is no further interest me other than a total fight of some sort I've earned it that's my right that's the

that's the next step for me that's the interest apart from that not really so it's just it's not about like staying active it's give me the title fight at this point like even if you have to wait till like June July

August to get it you're fine with that oh that's a long time you know You have to, I don't know, they'll fight for a belt somewhere. There you go. I mean, listen, first things first, your dad role is going to expand a little bit more. This is it going to be number four for you? It is.

It is. Man, I'm a psycho. God bless you, man. Is it a boy or girl, you know yet? It's another boy, three boys and a girl now. Wow. That's pretty big. Good for you, man.

I have won, man. That's plenty for me, man. Good for you. Two's not so bad. I'll give us two. One's a change. Two's not so bad. Three is devastating.

And I assume everything after three is just downhill anyway. You're totally outnumbered now. The chaos is fun, but. It is fun, yeah. Once they, you know, and their babies, they're cute. They don't sleep with the cute. And then they start talking and then they start talking back. And then you're just like, oh, my God.

And you have to deal with four. They make me laugh. They make me laugh. And that honestly is worth its white and gold. For sure, man. Last thing I wanted to get to, Anderson Silva may have just had his final UFC fight this past Saturday, finishing the fourth round by Uriah Hall. But man, at 45 years of age, he looked pretty darn good in that fight.

Like physically, he looked like he did 10 years ago. He was very competitive in that fight for a little while until he got dropped in the third round. But somehow the two of you just never had the chance to cross paths in the octagon over the last eight years since you've been there. So what did you think of Anderson's potentially final fight and what he's done to help make this division what it is today? We never cross paths because we're like a decade, like difference in age. As I was, I'm young and going up, he's getting old and down. I don't know how to say that in like, no insulting way. Because I have the utmost respect for him. But age gets everybody. It gets everybody. It doesn't matter how good you look to. It gets

everybody. And you can see that in him. You can see that his, his timings half a second off. He can't take the shots like he could when he was younger. He doesn't hit quite as hard. It's an Anderson Silver back in his prime. He couldn't get touched. And when he got touched, he barely got and it shrugged off everything. He was unstoppable. He was uncanny. But it required. the perfect balance of like youth and and physical attributes and talent. Whereas now like his experience and talent is obviously there. You can see that in his fight. That's why he's still competitive.

That's why he's still doing so well. But his youth and his physical attributes have declined a little bit. And when you're fighting top, top caliber dudes, top, top tier guys, like young, hungry physical action. Look at the specimen of your eye hole. Like you're fighting a dude that is in like the prime. of his physical, you know, abilities. And with the talent to go with it, it's just scary.

You know, he's just, he's just gotten old. You know, I don't know if that sounds rough saying it like that, but, like, he has. Like, what do you want me here? What do you want me to say? 45 is the new 30. Nah. Nah, dude.

So. Not in this game. Fair to say, fair to say, we won't be seeing you in there at 45. Have. Hell no. This game is stressful. That's another thing. These guys had fight like up and like throughout the late 30s, early 40s.

Like it is this game never gets easier. Every fight never gets easier. The distresses and the nerves are always there. Like always. I don't know why they just keep throwing themselves into this game. It is crazy. like in my opinion. You know, I have a soft cap

and I'm going to obviously go on on how my body feels, but if I start getting knocked out and start losing, my health comes first. I'm going to just bow out. Are you just kind of waiting for that? Or do you,

have you thought about that at all? Like, time frame-wise? Like, just be like, listen, I'm going to do it till here and then I think I've had enough. Yeah, I've got a soft cap of 35. Okay. A soft cap.

So if my body's really good and I'm still performing and everything's flowing, I'll push it. But otherwise, but if I'm not, then I don't know, there's heaps of other exciting shit I do.

Oh, yeah? Like what? Like what? Play with my kids, really. Yeah, there you go. That's important. Yeah, and like, if, let's, let's say, like, I'm not performing as well as touch wood. I'm not performing

as well as I want to at 35, then, you know, I'm going to be in the prime physique to still run circles around my kids, which sounds like a pretty good gig. Yeah, that's one as good as it gets right there. So Robert, I appreciate the time, man. Obviously, kind of crappy situation that you're in right now is the number one guy. And you could be waiting for a little bit to fight for the belt.

But last thing on this, because my initial thought when this all went down, I was like, this is Dana White like playing games right now. Like Dana White's trying to get Robert off the couch and being like, you know what? I hear what you say, Dana. I'm going to take this fight right now. That's what my initial thought was. Do you believe that this fight's going to happen between Adasania and Behovich? Or do you think he's saying,

that to try to get you going here. It's hard to say, but I'll tell you right now, I'm not fighting before March. Like, I got too much shit on. Like, Christmas, and then I got my new baby. There's nothing that'll get in the way of that. I mean, it's so clear. It's so clear. Like, very few fighters actually lay out an exact timeline of how their next fight's going to go.

And you've done that, and you're getting punished for it. But I appreciate you talking all about it, man. It's kind of sucks, but it is what it is, man. Congratulations on the win. Silver lining's done in this conversation. And have a great holiday and enjoy the birth of child number four, ma'am. Thank you very much. It's a pleasure to be on.

There he is. Robert Whitaker, clearly frustrated, clearly over the politics of mixed martial arts. And let's be honest, is he moving up to fight Jan Blahovic? It's a big deal. But is it a big deal? fight than the Whitaker rematch? Maybe. I mean, you can make the argument for both, and I'm not going to say you're wrong, but the man literally laid out a timeline.

He wanted to spend Christmas with the family, the birth of his fourth child coming up in January, and he wanted to fight in March or April. It's as clear as he can get. It's not like he's demanding more money or wants all these different perks in his contract. He said, like, okay, I'll fight for the belt. I'll fight out of Zania, but it's got to be in March or April. Like, here's why, I just don't get it. I don't get the whole he doesn't want to fight thing.

I don't know why Daniel White keeps throwing that out. He said about Dustin Porriere with the Tony Ferguson stuff. Like, of course the man wants to fight. Of course he wants to fight for the title. He just wants to do it on his time. I don't see anything wrong with that. The whole thing is just crazy to me, but thank you to Robert Whitaker for coming on the program

and giving his side of things. As we move ahead to a man who had a very impressive Octagon debut this past weekend, a highlight real knockout win over Victor Rodriguez. in Las Vegas. Let's check in with Adrian Yanez right now on what the heck. All right. Let's say hello to one of the big winners from this past Saturday nights. UFC Vegas 12 event, an incredible NACA win over Victor Rodriguez.

Welcome to the UFC, Adrian Yanez. That was quite the introduction. How are you, sir? Yeah, I'm doing very, very, very well, man. I'm super excited, man. I'm still on cloud nine, man. Still on cloud nine. Yeah, I mean, you go in there, you get the quick finish, highlight real fashion,

got a bonus to boot. I know you're typically a very self-critical person when it comes to fights, but that's how most people in the sport are, but you probably have to dig pretty deep to find anything wrong with that performance. Is that accurate? A little bit, man, but I kind of relaxed

a little bit too much on the cage. I should have turned off a little bit more. And then also, I kind of got a little content at one spot that I didn't move my head as much. he threw overhand right caught me on my neck not in the head though but I'll still find

I'll still find I'll still find to him to critique me I'll still find something but it was a great performance it was a great performance all right what are you grade in it what are you giving yourself a grade I give myself I give myself

man it's somewhere between a B plus and A minus man all right that's that's better I thought you're going to Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, no, because I had to take myself away from it for a little bit, but I kind of wish I would have caught it with the chin instead of the foot, man, because, man, my pinky toes been hurting. I mean, what a road has been for you. I mean, getting the contract on the contender series, and, you know, I've talked to enough of them at this point to know that some of them get to this point, and it's like the dream was already accomplished for them, like right then and there in that moment. Like Dana White says, come up and get your contract.

They're like, I did it. And they sort of rest in their laurels. You were taking the opposite approach, clearly. Does it feel more real to you now that you had your first fight and you got that first win out of the way? Man, it was weird because I just felt like at home. Like I didn't, I felt at home as soon as I got there, it was this weird type of feeling of like, like, I knew I belonged.

And it was like, of course, I'm not going to get comfortable. It's a, I'm at home, but I'm not, I'm not going to. never going to get comfortable with the position I'm in. Like, yeah, of course, I got signed. I got a contract and everything. But, man, like, to be in the UFC, a lot of people get content. They get into the UFC, and they're just like, I'm here. Cool.

They just want the name. They want the brand. They want the, like, oh, I'm a UFC fighter. They want this. I don't want to just be a UFC fighter. I want to be a great fighter that, like, I don't have to be correlated with the UFC if that makes sense. I want, like, like, anytime someone brings up an.

Anderson Silver, like you'll know who Anderson Silva is. That's why I want people to know me. And I want to be up there making waves, like in the top 10. I don't just want to be in the UFC because it's in the UFC. I want to be one of the best in the world. And that's how I am keeping my mentality for this. For this, now that I'm in the USC, like I had it before the UFC. I want to be top 10, top 10, eventually fighting for the belt, man.

That's my goals, man. And I'm going to keep striving for it, man. So that's what keeps me level-headed towards this. I mean, you mentioned Anderson Silva. It was the perfect timing for this debut? I mean, this could have very well been the last time we see him in the UFC. I don't want to even want to get into how I feel about that whole situation. But still, you know, you're debuting on potentially his final fight.

That's got to mean something, right? It means the world to me, man. I can only just keep harping at the fact, man, that, like, he's one of the greatest to ever do it. the sports and mixed martial arts and everything. So to me, I look at it and, like, for him, this possibly been his last fight, his retirement fight, and me debuting, I just feel like there's a correlation, man. It's like, it's like meant to be. One legend retires, maybe one's debuting. So that's how I'm taking it as, man.

So that's how I'm taking it as, man. I would love just to see because, man, I'm as a fan, I never want to see it. anybody walk away. Like, I wish you were still in his prime, still doing what he was doing. But, you know, life is different. So I would just want to see him go out with all those wits. It was crazy to, like, watch him because he looked exactly the same. Like, he's 45 years old, but he looked incredible. And you can argue that before he got dropped in the third round, he was, people, I think you might have been winning that fight. It's just crazy to see. It's not like he's getting run over by anybody, you know?

Yeah, yeah, man. I had him, I had him two zero. I had him two zero just because of the activity and everything. He was controlling. That third round, I believe he was controlling that point until he got dropped at the end of it. And in that fourth round, I just kind of felt, man, it was going to happen. But man, he was, yeah, he looked really good. I was, I was looking at things. And I was like, oh, he's getting he's getting loose. He's getting open. But man, as much as it says, man, as much as I want to, as I want to. to say, yeah, please stay in it. I'm just like, hey, I think it is perfect time for him just to hang it up. He has all his wits, man. He's a legend. I don't want him to become like one of these, one of the people that stays in it for too long, man. That's, that's one thing I hate seeing. Just that one person, you just, you know, just can't get out of him, man. So I'd rather him just see where he's at now and just keep it that way. So you were originally supposed to fight Aaron Phillips on this card and this fight got booked pretty quickly after the contenders series win how long after you got the contract to be a ufc fighter on the contender series did you put pen to paper for this

debut fight uh man it would it was like for the actual contract for my first official fight or okay yeah that that one honestly like once i got back home i got back home on wednesday and like I fought Tuesday I talked to my manager on that same night he's like yeah just tell me whenever you're ready I got back I got back home it was actually right before I took off from my flight back home I was like you know what I'm feeling good my hands great is like let's just go put me in and put me in and then by that by that night he calls me he calls me uh like it was at my time it was 12 12 o'clock it was midnight for me so whenever I got that call I was like, he's like, yeah, he's like, we got a guy, Aaron Phillips.

He was like, yeah, I'm good, let's go. It's like, woke me up from my sleep. And I was like, yeah, I'm ready to go. So October 31st was a date. Part of me was kind of like, hey, man, let's go sooner. Let's go sooner. But I'm kind of, I'm like really glad that we ended up taking October 31st and just waited and trained and was able to train efficiently.

So that was a blessing. So, yeah, it was like literally like the next date. That's crazy. When did you find out that Aaron was out of the fight and that Victor was in. Was there some time in between where they were trying to find somebody for you? It was like, I think he had pulled out like two weeks, two weeks, and then by the next day, like they had me an opponent. Like I found out like on a Monday or Tuesday that, I think it was a Monday that he pulled out, that Aaron Phillips pulled out, and then after that they ended up finding

me a replacement. I actually mentioned my management. He was like, yeah, they're working on it right now. Actually, matter of fact, I just got a name, Victor Rodriguez. He was like, I'll take them. I was like, first guy they threw him. I was like, I'll take them. It's like, there was like, on my end, on me, answering, I was like, man, I would just say yes to the first person, whoever they said.

I was, I was, cool. I was with it. So that was the first person, man, that's how it happened. The game is so different than it was like a decade ago. So did you have to make a lot of changes at all? Or is it more about, you know, what you're doing rather than what your opponent has done in the past? Because evolution happened so quickly in this game.

It's almost hard to, like, go back and watch past fights because you could be fighting a completely different guy when you get in there. Oh yeah, man. That's why a lot of times, well, especially, this is honestly what happens to me, happened to me so much on the regional circuit. This is why, like, whenever you look at my tapology page and you see, like, all, like, the canceled bouts, if you look, if you look at the fights, it's usually because, like, the canceled bouts, it's usually because they pulled out. It wasn't me ever really pulling out. There was a couple times where I pulled out due to injuries, but it's it's mostly been other people pulling out and like there's nothing i can do about that

uh so this was just more one of the same that like when aaron pulled and had victor step in to me it was like well i've been training my whole entire life like uh i've been trained like my whole since i was a teenager i was like man this this doesn't bother me it's like i've had people switch on me switch opponents like a week of before so it's been pretty crazy uh at that at that at that point, but at this, like in the UFC level, I just knew that they were going to find me somebody, and I was just like, well, this whole training camp wasn't about the other fighter. It's always been about me and what I do and what I do best.

So it wasn't really too much of a, it wasn't really too much of, how can I say it, like too much of a switch, it was just more of me just being me. Also what helped me out is that I saw his last fight, and I saw some tendencies that he had. what a little bit tricked me out is that he came out in Orthodox because his last one came out South Paul so I knew that he would like to switch but whenever he stayed a little bit more in Orthodox me

I was like, y'all you just made it way easier for me I was like, you just made it super way easier for me and then everything just happened the way that happened. Having the fight in the same building as your contender series fight, was it comforting to you or is it kind of a bummer because you've probably been picturing your first walk to the Octagon for years in front of a crowd and friends and family,

and you did the empty arena thing once again. What did you think of that experience? Was it a little more relaxing for you, knowing that you just fought there? It was more relaxing for me just because I fought there, but I also did like the, I got upgraded to a room this time because last time I was in that open area,

but this time I had my own room, so my own little locker room, so to me I was having a blast back there. I was having a blast, just getting ready for the fight. You know, I was like, oh man, they had like, wall mats and everything the last time before like they just gave us a big big mat space uh no wall like no nothing to do off the wall there's just that big go area uh so i was i was i was just really

happy that i got back and i was actually had like a nice decent-sized locker room i was like man this is pretty nice but uh but yeah no uh i was having fun man whenever i was there it was all it was all it was all great for me i'm so used to having the audience but at the same time the the missing of the audience, I don't know. I don't know what it was about it. I just felt really, really comfortable, really zoned in. These last two times that I fought with no crowd, I was so zoned in. So I don't know if that has to do with the crowd or just me just being super focused on what's in front of me. You know, even in my fight before with Kyle Strata, it might be due to the audience or whatever, but I was super zoned in when I fought with Kyle that I'm not really, I wasn't really

too sure about what was going around me, but I could hear the crowd and the, the, the cheers and like in the tough spots, I guess it would help get me through. But this time around since like these last two finishes that I had, like I was just super zoned in and was not influenced by anything on the outside. It was just like my coach, my coaches and his coaches and it was just us in the middle just fighting. It was pretty cool. I like it. I like it a lot better. But also, I can't wait until I have to get that experience of me knocking somebody out and just hearing the crowd just roar. That's one thing that I'm waiting for in that. You know, I wanted the knockout and then like the silence, and I've had that twice already.

Now that's time for now I'm just ready to hear the crowd roaring. Did you hear Brendan Fitzgerald and Michael Bisbing screaming after you landed that kick and finished the fight? Because it was perfect. I know you landed with the toe and your pinky toe hurts a little bit, but you threw it right as he was circling. He runs right into it. The timing was beautiful. Could you hear those guys going crazy? You might not have hurt him during the fight, but like after it was over, did you hear them yelling and screaming?

Yeah, I just heard it. everybody on this year. Like it was like it was more like after like a you heard like 10 or 15 people were like oh wow like I just heard around but my first instinct was to automatically turn to Dana White just be like hey man that was my first instinct and what helped out was whenever after like after I landed and herb was like I was already walking off but Herb still kind of pushed me off and I walked and first person I see his Dana so I started doing the money sign, like, hey, what's up? So after that, like, I kind of just walked over to my corner and just, I really didn't hear, like, I just heard the, like, people, people, but I didn't really pay attention to who it was coming from.

I just walked to my corner. It was just like, like, hey, we did it. Did Dana say anything to you? He just looked at me once I did the, like, I was like, is that 50 G's worthy? Doing the, like, hey, is that 50 G's worthy? And he just looks and he's like, yeah. Yeah. I was like, all right.

So I walked on. I think I have a good feeling I'm getting it today. And you sure did. And with that, a little bit of some momentum, clearly a lot of excitement surrounding you after these last two fights. You logged a little over three minutes of cage time. How soon do you want to get back in there

and keep this train rolling, man? Man, it honestly depends. It honestly depends. I know my November is like, man, like I have a lot of things going off from November. we have we got people getting ready for their own fights uh you know Texas starting to open up especially in the combat sports so I would want to fight December 19th like December 19th the week before Christmas to me that's perfect timing uh but also if that's not possible I don't mind waiting

until January like end of January beginning of February that that area so I can still get one in and it still be pretty soon because I do want to stay relatively active like I don't want to take no large breaks. So I want to get back in there. So in a perfect war, December 19. But if not, I'll wait until January, January, February, you know, still being in the realm

of being active. So just depends. Just depends. I don't want to fight around Christmas. I don't want to fight like during the Christmas times or during the New Year's times just because I know everything's going to be hectic and everything. But, man, a week before

Christmas would be great. Yeah, the man's got to eat too, you know? We can't keep you away from all. Oh yeah. Wait, cool, man. Yeah, yeah, because you're going to have to have to do with Thanksgiving with that too, man. Then I have my best friend's wedding here pretty soon. So I'm just like, oh, man, there's a lot of things going on, man. You mentioned how it was kind of the meant to be that you and Anderson were on the same card. I thought it was interesting that you and Miles John's both fought on this card. You both got bonuses. He was the last person to pick up a win over you. That was a very close fight. It could

have gone either way back in 2018. fight game just works in mysterious ways sometimes, doesn't it? Oh, yeah, yeah, man. It was really cool, man. It was really cool, man. I was seeing him during a fight week every once in a while. I ran into him. I was like, yo, what's up, man?

How are you doing? You're doing good. Yeah, buzzet, man, ready. Ready way in and everything. I was like, man. I could see that. So, yeah, no, real cool guy, man. Especially outside the game.

He's really cool guy. Man, he really deserved to pick up that win. You know, especially against a tough fighter, like Kevin, Natibod, I don't know how to, if I butchered his last thing. You got it, man. You got it. Yeah. But, yeah, like, a lot of these people from the outside looking in are not going to see how impressive that knockout was. Because that knockout that he hit him with, like, it looks impressive, but they don't understand how tough that guy actually was. Because that guy is definitely tough.

He knocked out Colorado whenever I didn't. You know, I was like, taking a look at that. So, you know, he did, he, he knocked out a legit fighter. He knocked out a legit fighter. So, man, he's, the dude's good. The dude's good. Do you think they'll maybe entertain running that one back? Man, I wouldn't mind running anything back.

I wouldn't mind running anything back with any of my losses. So, uh, it all depends, man. It all depends. At this point, I really don't care who I fight. Honestly, like, just, just sign me up for another one. We have a matchmaking show on M.A. fighting. It's called On to the Next One. And we usually, you know, we try to predict the future for the main card, maybe the future prelim winner.

And then we pick like a wild card choice based off anybody we haven't picked. So I picked you because I wanted to see more, as does a lot of other people, I'm sure. But I thought a fun scrap would be you and Tony Kelly. He's coming off his first UFC win, Fight of the Night in his debut up Away class. That'd be a good one for the fans, man. It'd be like a tornado of destruction. that would be just a lot of fun. Oh yeah, anybody can and we'll get it, man.

Look, man, I don't know how anybody is outside the cage, man, but we can be friends. We can be friends, we be enemies, whatever you want. It's just no, whenever we're stepping the cage, it's all business, and when we step out, we can have a beer or something, man. I don't care. That's just how I am, man. That's just how I am.

Anybody can and we'll get it. after the fight man we can grab a beer or something man it doesn't matter unless you don't like me after you i don't care spoke of like a true professional right there i um i was reading an interview earlier today you did with thomas jrbasi and you said that since the contender series win you just continued to rock contender series gear are we going to switch the wardrobe a little bit to the fight kit stuff some ufc stuff now that uh we got a victory here that gets put into rotation That gets good interpretation. So now I have a little bit more to switch in between, all right?

I don't have to be constantly washing my clothes every two or three days, man. I can actually be like, all right, cool. I can let the dirty laundry pile up. But, man, yeah, it's cool, man. I'm actually rocking some of the sweatpants, man. They're super comfortable, man. They're super comfortable. Actually, I got the long sleeve, too, man.

The long sleeve, actually. Actually, a matter of fact, I got the Dana-White Contenna Series. Right now, man. So, yeah, it's getting nonstop, man. I'm just, and honestly, like, I used to look at the, like, I used to look at some people who would wear the, like, the contender stuff. I mean, like, or not the container stuff, but, like, the UFC stuff. Like, you know, I would always be like, man, that's, like, well, just like regular people

would wear the UFC stuff. And I'm like, man, it's like, that, that's stupid. But now that, like, I'm here, I'm just like, nah, man, where? Like, where? Yeah, UFC, UFC, UCC? I got it. I'm just over here thinking it's like, man, I wonder if people think,

like, I'm just like a, excuse my French, but like a douchebag. I was like, because I'm just out of here rocking all this UFC stuff. Like, but, like, it's pretty cool to me, man. It's just pretty cool. It also symbolizes kind of something like, man, I work really hard to get here. So I'm going to keep wearing it, man. It's like a badge of honor to me. So I'm going to keep wearing it.

There you go. And to kind of build on that before we let you go, you know, you went through a lot. It was talked about on the contender series, talked about on Saturday as well, the passing of your father in 2016. I can't imagine that was like for you, you know, being so close to my father. But listen, you battled through it. You still realize that dream of getting to the UFC that you shared with him along the way. And that's just an amazing story. And this has been a year that has tested everybody's emotions. A lot of people have had some bumps in the road, some devastating things happen along the way. maybe they had to put their dreams on hold or they just can't get out of their own way because the tragedies they've had to face.

So what advice would you give to those folks who might be feeling that way and maybe need a little boost to get back on track? What would you say to those folks? And it's hard, man. It really is hard. And honestly, on like my advice was just always just kind of just face it, man. Like you can't keep putting it off. Like because the minute you keep putting it off, man, it's like it'll ache at you and ache at you and ache at you and ache at you.

No matter what you do, like it's, it will always be there if you don't face it. You have to face it. You can't just let it keep running because I know whenever I was dealing with it, dealing with everything, it really like dampered me and who I was, even as just as a person. like everybody around me can see it everybody can see it like it was bothering me at least like it took like two two and a half years for me just to even like even just address it man i was going i was in like living in my own type of like mental like prison uh until i started actually just started reaching out man like it's it's possible you can you can get through it's never it's like if you're dealing with the death or something like that it's you will never

get over it, you would just be able to find a way to handle it. And then like me, like me and my father was going through chemotherapy, going through all of his stuff with cancer. I was like the way, what helps me is knowing that he's not battling and not going through that suffering anymore of going through the cancer. And that's the way, that's what helps me cope with it. But man, it's hard yet to deal with it. by day. It's literally seconds, minutes, hours, days, months, years, man. It takes a while, but you just can't, you just can't stop, man. There's always a light at the end of the tunnel and you always have to keep striving and going towards it because, like, when you're depressed, the people around you will know. Like, and, like, and this is why you need good people around you, because without the good people around that I had, I don't think I would have came this far. I think honestly I probably would have been down the down the route of alcoholism and everything and because I was getting to a point of my life in that so man if you're if

you're out there and you're dealing with something man like I'm praying for you man like this you're not alone man that's another big thing you're not alone just just reach out man that like there's help numbers there's they have a lot of things that go out that are out there that they can help you man Like, don't, like, don't take advantage. Like, don't do, like, don't not take advantage of that because it's all there for you to use. It's there to help you. And please, like, like, don't go through this life depressed, man.

This life is meant to be happy. You're meant to have an adventure. You're meant to go follow what you really want and follow your dreams, man. So just keep after it. Well said, man. Oh, but by the way, after the win, I assume you went to your manager's house. Did you get a little collective Arridium team celebration, I would assume? Oh, yeah, man, I went over there.

Whenever I went after, yeah, it was pretty fun. I was out there. Like the last time we went, it was just the contenders. Then it was a Tuesday night. We went over there. They had some food for us. It was pretty cool. It was a nice little, small little thing.

But this time, this last time I went since we had like about four or five aerium fires went there. It was like a little party, man. I had a great time when I was there. As soon as I got there, they had ordered food for everybody, but I was like one of the last to show up because I went to go pick up my mom, my girlfriend, my brother, and then we went over to my manager's house. He said, hey, what do you want?

I was like, what do you want? You want Mexican food? I was like, hey, man. Hey, man. He's like, you want a burger? What do you want? I was like, man, you know what? He's like, you want pizza?

I was like, can you know? you're right I do want pizza because they so ended up ordering me a pizza man it was it was good man I don't know where you got it from but it was pretty good you gave yourself a B plus a minus for your performance what would you grade Alex Hernandez a suit that night because I saw pictures on Instagram it was a it was like a big checkerboard oh yeah I have I have it right underneath the Bruce Buffers suit a plus I would say Bruce Buffers is an A plus plus and and and And Alex Hernandez is at 8 plus, man, just right underneath, man. Yeah, so I was really impressed.

As soon as I walked up, I was like, whoa, that's Alex Shannonanis. He was like, you're the guy that almost stole my 50K. I'm like, oh, I'm sorry. He's like, oh, man, sick K-O, man. I was like, oh, thank you, man. It was fun. It was a fun night. Great stuff, Adrian.

Incredible performance on Saturday. Excited to see what's next for you. Congratulations on everything. And thank you for the time, man. Enjoy it. Enjoy the holidays. Eat some food, brother. Thank you very much, man. Have a blessed one.

Really enjoyed that, Chad. Obviously, an up-and-coming fighter. Really good, good guy. Really loved him being so open and honest about mental health and depression. I mean, there's obviously a lot of folks out there who have dealt with that a lot this year. So that was great stuff, really timely, and looking forward to seeing what is next for one of the bright up-and-comers at 135 pounds. That division is just so good. Now we're going to check back in with Lauren Murphy.

She's on the show. couple weeks ago in Abu Dhabi, prior to UFC 254. A lot to unpack with lucky Lauren Murphy from not just UFC 24 and that win over Lillia Shakarova, but going from having all this momentum to now kind of just being on an island. Now that Cynthia Calvio is fighting Caitlin Chukagan on November 21st, so happy to have Lauren Murphy back on the show. Here she is. All right, we have Lauren Murphy back on the show and a lot has happened in her world since we spoke over the last couple of weeks, including her first career submission win at UFC 254 against Lillia Shakarova.

A hell of a night for her, but since then, it's been a little bit of a wild ride for lucky Lauren Murphy, so we're happy to have her back on the show to talk all about it. Lauren, how are you? I'm good, man. Thanks for having me on. Still getting the whole car interview thing figured out. So, yeah. Yeah, thanks for having me on.

I appreciate it. Absolutely. So let's start at UFC 254 because, and I've said this many times, on our programming. I thought you had an A-plus night. Yeah, it wasn't the fight with Cynthia Calvio that would have had a lot of impact, but you took a big risk,

got the win via submission. Then you were on fire on the microphone after the fight in the cage and in the back of the media. And the one thing I've also said, and I've said it to you as well via Texas, outside of you going to Valentina Shepchenko's house and smacking her in the face on October 24th,

there wasn't any more you could have done. Could that have gone any better for you? No, it was one of the best weeks of my life. I'm just, I'm so grateful for that week and all the awesome memories that we made. And yeah, it was a super fun night for me. And I don't think you're right. I don't think it could have gone any better. So I'm very happy with it.

One thing I've noticed is, you know, you and I have talked a lot over the years. We've talked about how crappy Twitter can be and how negative it can be. And sure, there is still some negativity. But from what I've seen, I think you've gained a lot of momentum from the Twitter fans. A lot of newbies on board the Lauren Murphy trade. Have you noticed that as well? little shitter.com finally gave you some cool. I don't care.

I mean, yeah, Twitter's cool if I want to like, I don't know. Most of the time I tweet something, I think nothing of it, and then it blows up into something that I'm like, oh, shit, I didn't think that was even going to be a thing. And then I'll tweet something that I feel is very heartfelt and that I've spent a lot of time thinking about and fucking nobody cares. So Twitter's a super bizarre community,

and I'm glad they like me right now, I know that they could change their mind in an instant. So, it's MMA in a nutshell, right? Yeah, for sure, for sure. I mean, they say like you're only as good as your last fight, and luckily my last fight was awesome. Very good. The face-off that happened the day before the fight

after the way ends between you and Lillia, and of course, respect was shown after the fact, but did that make the win a little bit sweeter, her kind of two and the little fake shot at you? You flipped her off so nonchalantly, but do that enhance a little bit more? Yeah, that was so, like, not planned because I was like, fuck you, get out of my way.

Nobody's crazy to you. You know what I mean? And it was fine. Like, I didn't really take it personally, but I knew she was kind of talking some shit about saying I should retire or something like that. And it's like, I can, I hear what you're saying. Like, I know what you're saying about me.

And I'm not the type of person that, like, I'm not fake. If you say that about me, I'm going to take it the way you're saying it. You know, I'm not going to. to fucking touch gloves with you when we start the fight. Like, I don't appreciate those kinds of comments, you know? So I don't know why she did that. I thought it was kind of stupid altogether, you know, like, I'm on, like, at the time,

it was like, I'm on a three-fight win streak. I'm on the cusp of a title shot. Like, I'm looking better than I've ever looked in my career. Why the fuck would I retire? Do you know? So, I don't know. Just added a little bit of extra mystique, maybe a little bit of drama, and then you got the wins and made it a little bit better. So that was a great night for you. You fly home, you're

exhausted after going to Abu Dhabi, and then things start to take a weird turn. On Thursday, I spoke with Cynthia Calvio, as you would probably suspect. She had a lot to say about you, doubled down on the not being impressed thing. She was a little salty saying that you could have waited another week to fight her in Vegas instead of taking the, quote, easy paycheck. Then she reveals that she was offered a fight against you on November 21st and that you turned it down. Of course, I reached out to you a little while later, got your side of the story, and now she's booked to fight Caitlin Chacon at that event. So there's a lot to unpack here. First off, for those who didn't see your response that I posted on the website earlier today,

were you, in fact, offered a fight with Cynthia on November 21st? And what happened from, I guess it would have been this past Thursday? Yeah, we talked about, like, I talked to Mick about fighting her on the 21st. And it's like, there's a couple of reasons why that doesn't make sense, but mostly it's because, like, it can't be a number one contender fight. Like, you want me to fight Cynthia. I'm on a four-fight win streak now. Okay, I don't mind turning around and fighting Cynthia, but if we do it November 21st, you already told me Androge is the number one contender. So even if I beat Cynthia November 21st, then I'm sitting around waiting for Maya Chukagian to get fucking figured out. And then Androge is the number one contender,

so I'm going to sit around and wait for her to fight the number, you know what I mean, for the next championship and then like months after that so i mean we're talking in the next fucking spring now where i would be fighting for the championship like that doesn't make any sense cynthia took like a fucking week off of her camp she got to stay home she didn't do shit she didn't even fucking quarantine for two weeks like she got to stay home and rest from her camp of course she wants to fight now like i did all the traveling i did a weight cut i did an actual fucking fight like she can fucking wait a week all i wanted was like a fucking week or two you know what i mean i would turned around and fodder and in fact I thought we decided on December 12th I'm pretty sure we decided

on December 12th but that that all I think got fucked up like on on my end because uh we started talking to the UFC and it was like okay like we'll turn around and fight Cynthia we started talking about what it would look like to be an alternate on the 21st like in case my idea doesn't make weight like I was like if anybody's going to be an alternate it should fucking be me you know like I'll turn around and be an alternate because on the other side of that I might be a fucking champion. Do you know what I mean? I might be able to fight for the UFC title. Cynthia, on the other hand, can fucking wait for two fucking weeks while I get my shit together, rest a little bit, and then I'm in, you know, a top shape to fighter.

Like, then it could be a number one contender fight. But the way that to fight her on the 21st, it wouldn't even be a fucking number one contender fight because the timeline would be all fucked up. It just didn't make any fucking sense, and it wasn't in my best interest for sure. And it was like, I'm not going to do Cynthia any fucking favors. Like, who's taking the easy way now? you fucking took a completely different fight. Fuck off. I don't know. Anyway, I started talking to the UFC,

and I just realized, like, I'm way out of my league negotiating with these guys. These are the best, they are the best businessmen in the world, you know, like the negotiating with the UFC, I was so far out of my fucking league. Like, to them, it must have been, like, playing chess with somebody that's just learning how to play checkers.

Like, I don't, I was way out of my league, and so I was like, fuck, I need to think about this. I need some help, like, looking at these numbers and what does it mean for my career? and I don't, I didn't, I didn't, I never wanted to sign with a management company. I really did not want to sign with a manager, but I signed with first round because I fucking needed help, you know. No kidding. When did that happen? A couple days ago, I signed with Lou De Bono.

So, uh, I was really fucking nervous about it, man. Like, and Lou knows how I, how I feel about managers. I told him, I said, man, I've had three managers in my career. All three turned out to be shitbirds. Like, I just, I'm super nervous about this. But Lou's been a good guy. to me and my husband for a while now. We've reached out to him a couple times and asked him questions and gotten, you know, sought some guidance before I even ever thought about signing with him. He was always, like, and I know one of my coaches is pretty close to him, and he manages a couple fighters that are pretty happy with him.

And so I reached out to him to see what he would say. And I talked to him for a while, and I was like, well, I want to sleep on it. Like, I don't, I don't want to rush into anything. I don't want to rush into a contract with you anymore than I fucking want to rush to a contract with anybody else, you know? And they were just really cool about it. And then I talked to Malki a little bit, and Malky obviously knows what he's fucking doing,

and it just made me feel a lot better like talking to those guys. So I ended up signing with them, and I'll let you guys know how it goes. Wow, look at this. We got John Jones, Jorge Mazadol, Yo Romero, Lauren Murphy, all under the same umbrella. Quite the roster of winter.

Well, good for you. I mean, I was wondering, like, once you were getting to this point, I know that you've been doing stuff on your own. I was wondering if this, something like this would come up and what would happen. So, like, what exactly happened? Like, when you realized that you were out of your league, what was that conversation like? Do you, like, what happened there that led you to getting in touch with Lou and kind of changing gears?

It was a series of conversations that, like, I started having with Mick after the win. obviously like like I was really happy with my performance I'm happy with where like I'm happy with my job too that's the other thing is I fucking love to fight like I want to fight and I want to fight Cynthia I want to fight and Drage I want to fight Chukagian again like I do want these fights you know but it's hard because uh it's hard because like I just want to fucking fight and that's what I'm good at that's the thing I'm best at in the world and so I have people around me like my husband and my coaches other fighters that I know that have management teams and I'm kind of kind of seeing what's going on with them, and I'm hearing, like, you should ask for this. You should go for that. We should try for this. Let's do this. And so when we started talking about being an alternate, it's like, okay, you're talking about possibly stepping into fight for the fucking championship.

Like, and this was just something like I was thinking to myself. It was like, now we're talking about, you know, I have, like, whatever contract I'm on with the UFC right now. And then, like, on top of that, we're going to be talking about fighting for the fucking championship. These are big fucking contracts and like it means something, you know? And so I was talking to Mick about a couple things. And it just became apparent to me like through the course of like one or two conversations.

Like we're not, we're barely even speaking the same fucking language. Like Mick deals with this stuff all day every day with high level contracts, with fighters, with the ins and outs of the business. He knows what the fuck he's doing. And it just became apparent really quick that I don't. Like I can't keep up with those guys. And it's not my job. And it was really stressing me out like to try. I was really stressed about it

And I was talking to my husband I was like I don't want to fucking stress I will pay somebody to stress about this for me But it has to be somebody that's good at their job Not somebody that's just gonna fucking That's basically working for the UFC You know And yeah so we talked about it

And just like my husband and I talked about it I was like you know we got a sign with somebody And I lose Lou's been really good to us up to this point He hasn't seemed like greedy or fucking off He hasn't seemed dishonest Like he's helped us when we, when we needed it, and he didn't have to. Yeah, he's a good guy.

He's been very good with me over the years. And so when they announced, when this fight was reported between Calvio and Chukagian, it kind of, I'm not going to say it came out of nowhere because I know Cynthia put this post on Instagram saying, who do you want to see me fighting? Chukagin did the raise your hand emoji thing. And Calvio was very excited about that. You were, you were number one on her list. But if it was Chukagin, she was.

fine with that too. When you found out and saw that report, how did you react to that? I mean, I saw some of the things on Twitter, but how did, you know, what was that like? I woke up and I woke up from a nap and I was like, what the fuck? Like, Helvio, and I was sad because I wanted that fight and like, I

was looking forward to getting four fights in this year, you know, like that would have been cool and it's still possible, obviously, but it's like, it was just really sad, but I don't think that, I don't think it's a number one contender fight. I mean, for them, like, again, how could it be like for one thing there's me and then two the fucking whole timeline is off like

chukagian's coming off in first round tkio loss like you can't tell me that's a number one contender fight but it is good that cynthia gets to get in there she gets to make a paycheck and a quick turn around after getting covid you know so she's kind of doing the same fucking thing like she's just trying to get in there while she can and get in while the getting's good and then i think either i could fight the winner of that fight or i'll fight and drudge either way like honestly i'm i'm good i fought a lot of times this year. I'm very, I wasn't even really planning like on turning around and fighting that quick, but I would have because that fight had already been booked, you know? Yeah. So it kind of like leaves things like you said a little bit up in the air because like I know like you like you said

earlier, Andrage is somewhat favored to get the winner of Shepchenko and Maya, but I just feel like it's such a waste to like have her wait because we don't know how long she'll have to wait for when the two of you are right there ready to go and most people will look at it. rankings aside, you are the top two contenders in this division right now. Do you feel like in your heart of hearts that Andrage is an option right now, or do you think you're going to have to maybe take a step back to stay active here? Although that's kind of tough right now because a lot of the women in the top 10 of this division, they're already booked. They're already booked up. Yeah. I mean, yeah, Androge is definitely an option. And I don't think she, I don't think she's like,

she's not afraid to fight obviously. And I want to earn my number one contender spot. Like I'm, I'm happy to fucking fight. I'm happy to fight as many times as they want. I'm happy to fight whoever they want me to fight. And like Andrage would be such a great challenge. She would be awesome. That would be an awesome fucking fight. Sorry, am I doing weird things with the camera?

I'm getting all excited. Josh is a great option. And that's something. See, but now it's loose problem. I don't have to worry about it anymore. A big weight lifted off your shoulders. Yeah. It's great to see because like this division is so,

interesting right now. Like it's the most interesting it's ever been. And you've been there from the very beginning. There's a lot of buzz around the women's flyweight division. You're smack dab in the middle of it, Lauren. So silver linings aside, you don't have a fire right now, but it's got to feel pretty good, right? Like we are as relevant as we've ever been here. Not in the division. Like, I, like, I mean, I said it all last, you know, all during fight week on Fight Island. Like, I love my job. I love what I do. I'm excited to do it. I love the process. Like, I love to train and get better. I love to make progress so that every time I fight, it's like I've made so much progress in the areas that I needed to. It was really cool to fight on Fight Island, and it was really great to get that experience and just have such a clear-cut vision of what I need to work on to make my next fight even better and get a finish even sooner over somebody that's even higher ranked.

And, yeah, we'll see who that's going to be, but that, like, I love my job. I love what I do. I'm really excited to be part of the Flyweight Division, and I'm excited for my own next four. I can't wait. And when it's announced, people are going to love it. By the way, I think you and your husband may have won MMA Halloween. The Back to the Future costumes? Unreal. They're awesome. That's awesome. We love Halloween. Every year we think of the best couple's costume we could possibly come up with. And I actually really wanted to rent a Dolorian. And the DeLorean factory is here

in Houston. I drive by it all the time. But I just didn't think about it too much before we went to the Halloween party. That would have been amazing. You would have won Halloween for a decade. For years and years. I know it probably would have cost me about $5,000. At least we would have had the bragging rights. Well, get Lou on it.

Get Lou de Bono on it. Sponsor. Last thing before we let you go, Lord, I appreciate the time. I guess, like, what's the message for everybody? The UFC, your division, any and everybody, as we look to put an exclamation point on this really impressive year for you. What do you want to say to everybody? you know what? I'm still here and I'm working hard and I can't wait to like I can't wait to no matter

who my next fight is it's going to be a number one contender fight. So I'm here in this division. I'm a dangerous fight for anybody and whoever wants it can come get it. Love it. Always appreciate the time. Hopefully something get put together pretty soon for you. But thank you again. Congratulations on the win and we'll talk soon. Safe Travels home in the car there. Maybe it's a Delorean after all next year. You're the man. Thanks a lot. Talk to you soon. really interesting stuff right there very open and honest i mean the the business of mma i'm never going to come on this program and say that i actually understand what is going on behind the scenes

because i've absolutely no idea i'm just the interview guy talk to the fighters build relationships that's that that's my role i'm no idea what is going on in the business side but lauren has been representing herself basically over the last couple of years she's been very vocal about the management side of the mixed martial arts business and she's had some issues in the past with past managers and you know kind of hearing now that she knew she needed someone in her corner to help negotiate these types of deals and accepting that really interesting so now she's with first round management with luda bono with the cowas I think that's a pretty good move for her I mean that's that's quite the roster and I think it's a good move so enjoy that conversation

it's no-brainer in my eyes to book Murphy versus Andrade's at this point? Like, what's the point of having Andrage wait for the winner of Schifchenko versus Maya? Like, I think a lot of us believe that Schifchenko's going to win that fight, but I don't know. Schifchenko, like, historically is not the most active fighter. I know she's been relatively active, like 2019 into like the early stages of 2020. But we are in the pandemic. It's just interesting times right now. So what if Valentina wins and then can't fight until August?

We're going to wait and have Androge, like, just sit on the sidelines for that long. I mean, maybe Chivchenko can turn around quick, but why take the risk? Why take that chance? Just book Murphy versus Andrade sometime in December. Maybe put it on UFC 256 to wrap up the year, because that's a very important fight at 125. And then there's no questions here. If Andrage beats Murphy or vice versa, I think the winner of that should probably get the next shot. If Cynthia Calvio v. Caitlin Chukagan does so very impressively, she's in the conversation as well.

but like I was telling her, and I think most people would agree with me, the women's 125 pound division, even with the champion that's been very dominant and somebody that people don't believe that she's going to lose anytime soon, it's very interesting. It really is. So good stuff right there. And that's pretty much going to do it for this week's episode of what the heck.

We do have another interview to get to, but this will wrap up, I guess, like the segmentation portion of the program. So thank you all for watching and listening. Make sure you rate, review, subscribe, all that good stuff. if you want to do so. It takes you a couple of minutes and appreciate kind words and feedback. Bellator back tonight with Bellator 251 at the Fight Sphere at Mohegan Sun Arena. Corey Anderson versus Melvin Manhoff is the main event. Corey Anderson's Bellator debut, so that's going to be interesting. It should be a fun card.

UFC Vegas 13, of course, coming up on Saturday, we'll have you covered with all those results, pre and post-fight chatter, et cetera, for UFC Vegas 13. And remember, it's obviously a rough year. It's a very divisive time. in the world and in the United States. So try and stay positive. You know, sometimes I got to remind myself of that from time to time. But, you know, be positive, be nice, and just do what you have to do. And with that said, have a heck of a week, everybody.

We will leave you with my chat from Tuesday with Kevin Holland coming off his big win at UFC Vegas 12 over Charlie Antevereaux. Thank you very much. All right. All right. see Vegas 12. And with that win, he is now the only fighter on the roster with four wins in 2020. What a year it has been for the Trailblazer who was kind enough to join us once again. Kevin, how are you, sir?

I'm doing good good good, Lord, man. What a year it has been for you. It started off in Jacksonville, then three wins and three consecutive months in Las Vegas. When this pandemic struck Kevin and things were so uncertain, did you ever imagine getting to fight four times and then looking for a fifth, maybe even a sixth this year? No, I work out, but I can say, man, I love the activity level. It's my type of life, you know what I mean? For sure. I mean, not only have you, like, performed in the cage,

but I feel like the universe has sent you some pretty good juja. I mean, you've had a couple of hiccups along the way. You know, short notice opponents, fights being scratched, like minutes before they're about to start. But still, it just feels to me like you found yourself, for the most part, in the right place at the right time this year. Do you feel the same way? Ultimately feel like it's been a good one, you know what I mean?

Everything's worked out. Everything's gone pretty swell. And, you know, I honestly can't complain about how it's worked out for me. Before we talk about the fight itself, let's go back to this past Wednesday because you were supposed to be part of the virtual media day ahead of the fight with Machmad Maradoff. And, you know, we've covered enough of these to realize that when fighters don't show up for those scrums, that something went down and changes are coming. So when were you made aware that Machmed was out of the fight and that, you know,

you were going to fight Charlie Anabaris instead? Probably once I realized I wasn't going to the media scrum. I was like something's going on here. I was like something's not right. And then, yeah, shortly after I found out we needed a new opponent. And then a little later on in the day, I found out who it was. And I was like, you know what, I was supposed to fight this guy back in the day? It never went through.

I was looking for something else. Worked out for a lot more money. I can't complain. You were supposed to fight him before? Yeah, I think like in 2000. 17 or something like that, 16. Oh, there you go. I mean, it's funny because Charlie had a really crazy road to get to that fight himself.

He had a shot at the UFC. He was going to replace somebody on a day's notice, and then he wasn't cleared. But, you know, he gave it everything he had in there, and eventually you were just too much for him. Did anything throw you off in that fight? Was his style on the feet early? Did that kind of throw you off, or you were just kind of expecting the unexpected? He was fast. And he was going to throw some pretty crazy kicks and stuff like that.

I mean, I was down for it. I mean, I think I was Russian. You know, I had a lot of... So, a couple hours before the fight, I was kind of like, the night before the fight, you know, after the wayans, I was complaining to my coaches, I was like, you know, the guy I was fighting was,

the guy they had me scheduled to fight. It was on 13-fight win streak. It was intriguing to me. It was something that I really wanted to try. You know, it was a puzzle, you know what I mean? But with this new guy they had bringing in, it was like, I'm fighting another newcomer in the UFC. It's like, I kind of get tired of doing that over and over again.

You know, it's like, I don't want to be. I hear people saying, oh, he's not fighting somebody rang through a challenge. So I wanted to fight somebody a little bit more legit. Not saying nothing bad about Charlie. It's just what was going through my head, you know? So then I put a challenge in front of myself. I said, it's Halloween.

Maybe I can make it home tonight if I finished a fight in a decent amount of time since they changed the time that I was going to be fighting until an earlier time. The latest fight that I could get to get out of there was at like 620, 615. So I had to be at the airport by at least 515. So in my head I had it worked out. If I could finish the fight in the first round and get done with media and everything by 5 o'clock, I'd already have my bags in the limo and I can make it to the airport by 515, and I can make it home before the night was over with and have fun.

You know, I finished the fight with an amount of time that I set for myself, but I still missed the flight because I took too long talking inside the media tent. Big Mountain, you know how I get down. Well, and talking to Adasania too, man. I mean, you had to get those shots in, but, But before we get to that, like you threw him around in there. That last slam man was just nasty. Dana White was all fired up about it.

What happened there? Like once you put him on the mat and you had him pinned down like that, what happened that led to the refs stepping in there? Did he say he was done? Did you know he was really hurt? Yeah, he was like, so soon as I slammed him, he kind of was saying, my neck, my neck, my neck. So, you know, it was like, your neck?

He said, yeah. I'm like, you sure. He was like, my neck, my neck. And I was like, ref stopped it, got up, and walked off. You know, I probably should have asked this corner if they were right sooner. You know what I mean? It took style bender to say, hey, go check on your, you know, check on your opponent. But, yeah, I was fired up about something else.

You know, I got hit with a head kick and he made some little weird noise, so that kind of had me fired up too. So, yeah, I mean, you mentioned Adasania, and then you gentlemen began exchanging pleasantries, so to speak. Was this something that happened, like spur of the moment, or did you know the whole time that he was sitting there? Yeah, I seen him sitting there. I know he was going to be,

I had a feeling he was going to be at the fight watching Anderson Silver. I just thought it was funny that, you know, when I walked up to him, he knew who I was, but then when I said something about L.A., he didn't remember L.A., so it is what it is. There's a- when it happens, it happens, you know? Yeah, and that's one thing I want to bring up

because there's a lot to appreciate about you, Kevin, and we've been chatting it up for a little while now, but one thing I really appreciate about you is that you are as real, yet you're as realistic as it gets. Like a lot of people thought, okay, there's Kevin Holland going out and trying to get a title fight, which I didn't think was the case at all, because you've said on the show many times that, you know, when it comes to guys like Marvin Vittori and others that have said something to you in the past, if you see them, you're just going to address it right there and then. And that whole thing was not you trying to jump any cues here. That was you reacting to something in that moment that was like a memory from the past. And, you know, were you perhaps planting some seeds for down the line? perhaps, but this wasn't you trying to get a title shot next or anything like that. At least that's how I viewed it. Yeah, I don't need a title shot next. I think I got like four, maybe six more fights before I can get to a title shot.

I'm cool with that. You know what I'm saying? It's like I like to fight. But four or six more fights, but I can do that in, what, five, six, seven, eight months? I fight a lot. Just keep giving them to me. People say you can't do that same thing when the guys are a bigger competition. I'm an active man.

You know what I mean? I'm not really training too much technique. At least it's not changing. I'm just making the technical shit better. You know, so it's like I'm really just going out there doing the same shit over and over and over and over again. To learn how to put it all together in a magnificent form and in a faster, fast, faster, faster way. That's just what I'm searching for. You know, if I can perform and do everything I want to do at an extremely fast pace, then fuck them.

They can't keep up. I mean, that's what Khabib's doing to everybody. He's going out there and fighting at a really fast pace. I want to do that too. So I guess I got work on that cardio like everybody would be saying on your. Instagram. How close do you think you are to that point to becoming that guy? I don't know.

Take it one fight at a time. Hopefully another fight this month. That'd be nice. Yes. I mean, another thing is like you do like to keep things close to the vest from time to time. Like we talked about, you know,

your sort of quasi-rival with Joaquin Buckley, some things he said before the fight. You really weren't comfortable sharing it in an interview setting. And you were asked about how this whole thing with Adasania astemned and you weren't ready to talk about it on Saturday, but how about now on this Tuesdays we're just two guys talking here? You know, we got a little bit of a thing going on over the years, Kevin. What happened in L.A.? If you don't mind me asking? Nah, man, it's simple. It's just, I seen him in the stairwell and it was like, uh, I simply said

he's not that big. And he was like, what the fuck he say? And then it was just like the way he responded to it, you know? And I was talking to my coach, like, yo, he's not that big. Like, I'm just looking everybody in the division. They were talking about, hey, Kip, you should probably go back down to 70. And I was like, I don't think I need to go back down to 70. So when I seen him, I was like, you know, he's sworn through the division. We've got similar bodies. He's not that big. He didn't like it. Kind of charged me up, kind of like if I was the freshman and he's like the junior, you know what I'm saying?

Like, if I was the new guy on the team, he could just treat me however. And it's kind of like my coach had to tell him to go the other way and James Vick had to push me down the stairs. So in my eyes, it just kind of felt like he was trying to punk me. So forever since then, I was kind of like, yeah, the guy is good, but fuck you. You know, I don't believe in being punk, you know. So, I mean, every time I meet somebody like that, you know, it's just two personalities are just, or brash, you know, they come across each other, that's what happens.

Nothing against the guy. It's just in my head and in my world, you know, we're in the same weight class as it is. Fuck him. What do you think of him jumping up to 205 now in fighting Boehovic? Like, pretty interesting timing. You got a big, heavyweight fight. I think it's dope.

I think it's dope. You know what I'm saying? I think he's doing really fantastic. things. I like that he's an active champ, so on and so forth. Nothing wrong with the guy. Nothing wrong with the way he fights and the things that he does inside the cage and all that stuff like that, unless he's hopping people from behind

that's some weird shit. But, you know, hats off to him, you know? I think, and you know what, honestly, I think that he can win that fight at 205. So, I think it's crazy he's not doing it while John Jones is there, but, you know, that's another story. So, but I don't want everybody to be like, hey, he's always

bad mouth in the champ. I'm not bad mouthing him, man. Props to that guy. Everybody around me, I think he's, you know, one of the best fighters ever. That's what's up. We'll see what happens. I appreciate you sharing that. We'll move on.

We also thought it this week that your old pal Mike Perry has an opponent. He's now fighting Tim Means. I know you wanted that fight. Were you bummed that you didn't get it? Or did you expect to for it not to happen? No, I expect me not to get the fight. But, you know, we're still how many weeks out from that fight? Three.

Little alone three. Anything can happen. So you're staying ready for that one in case something happens. staying ready. November, December. If I'm not fighting in November or December, though, I shouldn't enjoy the year and go get ready for January.

There you go, but you would. I don't see you doing that. I see your phone ringing pretty quickly here. Because you're in a really interesting spot because if you, like, people love to play fantasy matchmaker, and you're both a very easy person to matchmaker for and a very difficult person to match make for it.

You're easy in the sense that you'll fight anybody, but difficult due to the fact that you're on a really nice run right now, you're not ranked just yet. You're very close. And to get those big fights that many people feel that you deserve, someone's going to have to take a step back and take a little bit of a risk here. So what do you think is

next for you? Like, what do you see happening? Are you just kind of waiting for the phone to ring? Or do you have, like, something in mind that makes sense to you? I got offered a fight and I heard that fight hasn't been filled yet. So I don't want to say no names, but you know, if somehow the matchmaker gets a part of this

little section of the interview, I'm down for that fight. I don't care what my manager said before I'm down for that fight. What's up? Oh, so what, what date was it? Was it for November or December? It was for December, but I mean, we can do it in November because there's some there's some 185 fights in December that's coming up and I got to be ready just in case somebody pulls out of those, you know? I like to stay available for those cars that people might pull out of because you never know when you're going to need somebody to step in and not everybody's down to step in the way I am. Yeah, because Vittori and Jokore and Jokoree are fighting and, and,

Exactly. I got to be ready to step in. So if I can get one more fight in before then, and then I can get three weeks to prepare for that fight, that'd be awesome. So if I can get November 21st, and then it gives me a few weeks to prepare for December 12th, then I can have a wonderful Christmas and a wonderful new year, and then I can fight again January 23rd, and then we can see what the rest of the year looks like,

and then we can map them out after that. But I just want to stay active. So I don't think it's best for me to get a title or anything like that, because when you're the champ, they've got to do a lot of build-up for fights. You know, so I prefer for Stylebender to go up to 205, grab that belt, you know, and vacate it, and then we could fight somewhere to catch weight if he doesn't want to cut that much weight anymore. I'm just coming for certain necks.

That's as simple as it is. You see, I'm down to step into this fight for Marvin Vittori because I like the guy. People always pull out of fights for Marvin Vittori, so I'm there. I'm there. I'm there. You know, same thing with Brunson. You know, if nobody wants to fight Brunson, I'm there. There.

Yeah, he's looking for a fight too. Yeah, very interesting times. He wants to fight somebody up. He ain't going to fight me. But I'm there. Yeah, there, and you're ready. So you're obviously at the mall right now. You can kind of tell with the music and the ambiance behind you.

And the last time we were on, we talked about your shoe collection. And with these wins and these bonuses you're picking up, that collection must have gotten exponentially bigger, has it not? I mean, I ain't going to say nothing just yet, but I'm working on something. So I ain't going to be just buying shoes, you know what I'm saying? But we're working on something with the shoes. So stay tuned with the shoes. Trailblazer shoes coming out?

No, no, no, I ain't going to create no shoe. I ain't trying to keep up with people like that. But, you know, just stay tuned with the shoes. You know, something to happen with it. By the way, what did you think of Joaquin Buckley's knockout a few weeks back? I'm proud of Miho. I'm proud of him. I'm very, very proud of Miho.

He's came so far in such little time, you know. Not very often that you're that proud of your, you know, your newfound son. And that's a newfound son. You know, I birthed him into the UFC games. game. So I'm proud of him. He's came a far away, but you know, he needs to stay out of my inbox challenging Big Daddy over here because, you know, I would hate to have to son him again. He's, he's been hitting you up in the DMs? Yeah, he's been hitting me up in the DMs, you know. One thing I appreciate it about Buckley is Buckley's

bold, you know? Buckley's bold. Buckle will never be ready for me. Ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever. They say you should never say ever, ever, ever, ever, ever try and ever, ever try and challenge me. I will smack him again. So perfect world. We fight this month. We fight next month. Make it five months in a row. Six wins total in 2020. That's just a ridiculous year, dude. Shout out to the pandemic, huh? Listen, man, I know you're at the mall. You get things to do. But what an incredible run it has been for you, man. Outstanding from the Brennan fight in Boston a little over a year ago to now just unbelievable stuff, man. Continued success. All the best to you.

That fights this weekend, ain't it? Allen versus Heinish. What do you think of that one? I can make 85 still. Let me know. Oh, okay. There we go. See, Matt, and you know what?

I oftenly don't like people who beat me. But it's something about the people in the UFC that beat you. They're pretty cool. Diego's pretty cool. Brennan's pretty cool. But that being said, I do like to avenge those else. Well, there you go, man. Continued success.

All the best to you in keeping this record-breaking year going, man. Looking forward to maybe December 12, maybe November 21st. Who knows? but congratulations on another win, and we'll talk soon, man. Thanks, boss. Appreciate you. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.