MMA Fighting - What the Heck: Episode 48 | Max Holloway, Jon Anik, Julian Erosa & Kaitlin Young

Episode Date: March 2, 2021

This week on What the Heck, MMA Fighting's Mike Heck speaks with Jon Anik to preview UFC 259 this Saturday night, discuss the fallout of UFC Vegas 20, Max Holloway's performance over Calvin Kattar, and more. Julian Erosa recaps his first-round KO win over Nate Landwehr at UFC Vegas 19 and reveals what opponent he'd like to face next. Kaitlin Young discusses signing with the PFL and her hopes of fighting Kayla Harrison and Cindy Dandois during the upcoming season, Stephen A. Smith's recent comments and Gina Carano. Finally, former UFC featherweight champion Max Holloway talks his impressive win over Calvin Kattar, his relationship with Daniel Cormier, Alexander Volkanovski vs. Brian Ortega, and much more. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. What the Heck with Mike Heck on MMAfighting.com. Now here is your host, Mike Heck. What the heck? Well, hello there, everybody, and welcome to a brand new edition of What the Heck here on MMAfighting.com. I am Mike Heck. Thank you for watching the show this week.

Of course, we are just days away. Just days away from UFC 259, three title fights, loaded card. 15 bouts in total. Of course, Jan Blahovich makes his first title defense of the light heavyweight strap against the middleweight champion Israel Adasania. Massive moment potential for both of those guys. Really interesting fight to headline that card on Saturday. Amanda Nunes is back defending her featherweight title against Megan Anderson. Fyodor Jan defends his bannamweight title for the first time against Al Jemaine Sterling, which is such a ridiculous fight. I've been singing the praise of that one for a while. I will continue to do so.

until both men are in the Octagon on Saturday, and then I'm going to sit back and watch the greatness unfold. I cannot wait for that one. I'm just fired up for Saturday. No doubt about that. We'll be talking much more about that card with some special guests throughout the week, one of which will be joining us in a matter of moments.

So stay tuned for that. But we're going to get right into it. Big week ahead of us. If you wanted the UFC Vegas 20 recap, we get you covered on the channel here. Just go back, post-fight show, all that stuff. on to the next one on the podcast network. We talked all about it.

We'll probably talk more about it on between the links this week. But this is 259 fight week, everybody. Let us run down the lineup. Let us get to our first guest. Rapping us up, we're going to re-air my conversation with Max Holloway,

the former UFC featherweight champion of the world from last week. But this time, a much more refurbished-looking video. This will be kind of a what-the-heck exclusive when it comes to the look and the feel of the conversation because it was really good. It was kind of, I don't know. It was just, we put it together.

We got it out there because we know you wanted to see it, but this is going to look more like the interviews you normally see on the show, but you're only going to find it on this episode of the program. From a video sense on the podcast network, it's just going to sound like an interview, but if you missed it, we got you covered a little bit later on. The PFL's new season is about to kick off. And in the women's lightweight division,

we found out last week that Caitlin Young, one of the OGs of women's MMA, she is going to be a part of the roster and a chance at a million bucks she will join us to discuss that opportunity when she found out about it, matchups that she's potentially excited about, Kayla Harrison's rise and much more.

We touch on a lot of different things, really good conversation, really looking forward to that. Julian Arosa has been an amazing story over the last nine months or so. Back in the UFC for his third stint, he got cut. This is a guy who got cut. Then they brought him back for one more fight to fight Julio Arce, gets knocked out, gets cut again, takes a fight on the regional scene, gets a victory, and then he's back with the UFC on a short notice opportunity.

Now he's 2-0 in the UFC, this stint, back-to-back finishes, most recently stopped Nate Landware with a flying knee at UFC Vegas 19 less than two weeks ago. We'll check it with Juicy Jay in around 25 minutes or so. But first, it's a big fight week. Let's check in with the man who will be Octagon's side for all the festivities this Saturday, as he was this past Saturday, and he will also reveal the rest of the broadcast team for UFC 259. You could also catch him on the Annik and Florian podcast. Their latest episode is live right now, wherever you consume your MMA content. Let us welcome back, the great John Anick. All right, it is officially UFC 259 Fight Week, and with this massive event coming up on Saturday,

featuring a trifecta of world championship bouts. It felt apropos to bring back on the legend, the play-by-play voice of the Ultimate Fighting Championship to break it all down. So let us say hello once again to John Anik. Kind enough to join us once again back home in Florida. How are you, sir? I am well, Mike Heck. It's good to be with you.

And big month, we don't always have two domestic pay-per-views in a month. So we're excited. And UFC 259, obviously, to your point, is a pretty big one. first off before you get into saturday i saw a photo i saw social media post that you are taking your training to another level working with the great phil deru who is obviously the strength and conditioning guru for many of high level fighters jacked john anick coming our way perhaps this is oh i don't know about all that noise i mean this dude started asking me about my diet and i was getting a little bit freaked out i've cleaned up my diet though but uh yeah i've been working with a couple

of different guys down here, Phil de Rue certainly, and Gilbert Burns for Christmas actually, got me three training sessions with his guys at the Institute of Human Performance down here. So, see, I don't know if I should take this as like a message from the MMA community that all these South Florida-based traders are trying to get me in the gym. But in terms of functionality, I do feel stronger. And a lot of level changes when you're a parent of young children. So I'm feeling stronger. And I'm not taking an amateur fight, Cub Swanson.

but I'm feeling stunned. Well, there you go. That's good stuff. I wanted to touch briefly on this past Saturday, if I could, because Cyril Gahn is now 8-0, went into his first main event, and I don't know if you saw this on the broadcast, but one thing that stuck out to me immediately was his, like, composure before the fight with Jarzini Rosen Strike began.

I tweeted some to the effect of Cyril Gahn looks like he's about to take a leisurely stroll around the neighborhood on the first nice day of the year. He was just so relaxed, and I thought, that attitude, that mentality was so important, especially with how the fight played out overall. What did you make of Gahn's performance and his composure heading in? I agree with what you said. And candidly, I probably should have acknowledged as much on the broadcast because I got that same sentiment from him in our fighter meeting. And I hadn't seen him fight live until the junior dos Santos fight.

So you get a different read on a guy when you get the face-to-face in the Zoom meeting or otherwise, and you get to spend a little bit of time around him. and then, of course, watching him compete live, you get a better understanding as to just how high his ceiling may be. I think he can be the total package. I think certainly he's a developing mixed martial arts athlete, but in terms of the mental stuff and the ability to handle everything that comes with fighting that isn't, you know, fists and knees and chokes, I agree.

He passed those tests with flying colors. And again, when you can fight another credentialed heavyweight and win 50 to 45 times three and not have a scratch on you, you're doing something right. So I'm excited to see the next one. And there are going to be guys that are going to really force him and push him in different ways. And I'm excited to see him take those challenges. I guess I understand how like some of the fans reacted to the fight. But I also thought it was like mega important for him to have that extra time in the cage.

Like yeah, I could have gone out there and stopped Jarzino in two minutes. But the fact that he went 25 minutes and got that full main event feel, I think that's going to pay more dividends down the road than had he just finished him in two minutes. Like, do you agree with that? I think so too. I also think, though, there are different 25-minute fight. So I think if you're Francis and Ghanu fighting Steepa, I thought those 25 minutes may be carried more value in a loss than these 25 could in a win, which might sound a little bit crazy, but these weren't particularly fast-paced 25 minutes. And again, I don't think cardio is going to be an issue for GON. It was a big issue for Rosenstrike, and it's not like I can go run six, seven, eight miles, but I can't, I can't

fight 25 minutes like that. I can't, you know, shadow box for 25 minutes necessarily. So I have respect for the cardio-vascular strength on both sides, but I don't know. I don't want to overstate the value of going the distance because, man, he treated it like a sparring session. He was laughing, having fun out there. And I think that's good in its own respects. But I don't know. I think it was an interesting fight for us to call for sure. I'll leave it at that. Fair enough. I did want to give some shine to Ronnie Lawrence because he's a guy I've been following since he was on the regional scene and he looked amazing in his Octagon debut against Vince Kaccharro. Like that pace he puts on is just outrageous.

And he has like little pieces to his game that a lot of great 35ers sort of like basket. Like he's got that footwork and movement of a cruise and a Dilloshab. But he also has like a bit of Marab de Walsh Willie in him with that suffocating pressure and wrestling. And we've seen great debuts before, John. You've called a bunch of it. But I feel like the ceiling is. super high in a guy like Roddy Lawrence. What did you see sitting

knocked on side? Yeah, I saw all of that. I mean, this division, right? Can we just talk about that? I mean, Ricky Simone and Marab Dwalish Willie and Ronnie Lawrence. I mean, these are some of the most watchable, most offensive fighters in the sport. And good on UFC President Dana White for being front and center, despite the fact that he didn't get a finish on the contender series, acknowledging him as somebody who is special and somebody from whom he expects big things that was wholly accurate from the press. He's great. I mean, he's great. He's well-coached. He's his own harshest critic. And he really, despite not having amateur wrestling in his background, it seems to be a pretty good base for him.

And he can go to that if need be, but also is a tremendous striker. He's going to need every one of those skills, as you know, and then some to survive in these shark-infested UFC Bannamway Waters. But couldn't have gone much better for Ronnie Lawrence. And again, when you're unsatisfied with a win like that against a guy in Vince Cacero, who was sort of in desperate, mode coming off a loss in his UFC debut, new camp, figured to have gotten the best version of Vince Cacero and look what he did with him. So, yeah, chips to the center of the table for me, too, on Ronnie Lawrence. How would you describe calling Pedro Munoz versus Jimmy Rivera two inside the apex? It's insane. The whole calf hit craze is insane. It really does come down to mental toughness. I mean, if you were to pull this roster, they would tell you largely,

short of getting caught so badly on the nerve that it makes you truly one-legged insofar as you can't put any pressure on it because it's numb. Other than that, man, you know, it's mental toughness that's going to power you through. And Jimmy Rivera's leg was killing him after round one.

And how he not only sustained but kept throwing offense back is something that I can't relate to from a toughness standpoint. But I think Pedro Munoz deserves a lot of credit. If you look at the body of work, there have been setbacks in big fights before, but he's never been finished

as a pro. I do believe that even though he has some signature wins, Mike, for sure, Cody Garbrand, Jimmy Rivera, others, he can on any given Saturday night be the best band of weight in the world, right? His Brazilian jiu-jitsu gives you tremendous pause, especially with that guillotine, and he has so much power, a chin that is held up, loves to spar. You know, I think the fact that neither of these guys had title-eliminator-type stakes in this fight helps them to open up a little bit more and be less cautious. I think sometimes when maybe you're fighting for a title shot, you don't fight as well as you otherwise would, but just so much respect for these two athletes and as clear as day as you could have for a fight of the night. I was texting Tyson Chartier

earlier today, and I was asking him about like if you're coaching cater or font or any of these guys and you know you're fighting a guy like Munoz who throws those calf kicks so heavy, like what do you say to help defend those? And I just say, he just goes, I say make the miss. So he says make the miss and you're coming out saying, I need to take one of those kicks at 50 to 60 percent because I just took one from Paul Feldar a little while ago at 10 percent. I got to see what it's like. You're a wild man. Why do you want to do this, John? Why do you want to do this yourself? Well, make a miss is good advice, right? Because at the end of the day, ultimately that's really what you have to do because you don't have the foresight to know what one of these singularly might

do to change the complexion of the fight. So if you're a fighter, you absolutely need to figure out a way to not take one, if at all possible. And coaches approach that differently, by the way. But for me, taking one of these, I've had a lot of people see I'm punk foremost among them telling me, dude, just don't do it, right? A lot of people are afraid I'm going to tear my ACL, Michael, if I do this, right? But no, I guess I just want to feel it. And so like last night I had my seven-year-old daughter, Tatum, dig in pretty deep, you know, and I actually have a better understanding now, believe it or not, than I did 12 hours prior. But no, I just think it has become such a factor in our sports so much so that I would say 5% of the fan base right now is like

all right enough with the goddamn calf kicks you know like enough because again it becomes such a big part of the narrative of the fight they're probably for us commentators they're sick of us talking about it but I just want to feel it and you can be sure I have a long line Belal Muhammad Gilbert Burns Jared Gordon Danny Chavez uh the crochet boss morey screen and myriad others have all offered to kick this little scumbag in the calf. So it's probably going to happen. And hopefully they'll go 20, 25 to 30 and not 50 to 60%. There you go. Well, let's take a look at Saturday night, UFC 259. I mean, all these storylines have been kind of talked about and thrown out there. Of course, the main event, we get Jan Belhovic defending the light heavyweight title for the first

time against Israel-A-Sania. I love this fight. And one of the main reasons I love it so much, Yeah, there's a lot of historical significance to it, but I feel like the attitude of it overall, John, as to how people view it has changed quite a bit since it was announced. Like the betting odds are with Adisania, but amongst like the fighting watching public, I'm not hearing the Adasani is going to piece Blahovic up narrative nearly as much as I did early on. The respect factor, I feel as we're getting close to the fight, is rising in the camp of Blahovic and rightfully so. Have you noticed kind of a similar trend as well? I think there's some of that out there. I think some have suggested and some did when we taped our podcast earlier today that Adasanya might feel him out a little bit and might be a little bit in risk mitigation mode early because he's moving up to light heavyweight for the first time. Certainly, Bohoev, it should be confident.

And I like every bit of his progression. I like every bit of his game. He's certainly not afraid to be the underdog. Most of his career, the high profile fights, almost all of them. He has been the underdog for those. but I actually feel like the underplayed storyline is Adasanya's quest at all time greatness. I mean, Mike, he's 20 and O. So I could sit here and depending on what I was employed to do, tell you that at minus 250,

there's a lot of value with him right now. And that even though it's commanding two-way action, Adasanya is maybe not getting the respect that he deserves despite being the betting favorite. So that for me is a big storyline, 20 and O in modern-day mixed martial arts and trying to preserve that by going up to 205 pounds is just incredible. And to see what Yon can do because he's a cold-blooded killer, right? Ice water in the veins is sort of your sports cliche. Jan Bojovic is that guy.

I mean, you talk about Seedulgan. I mean, Jan Bojovic, give him a heart monitor walking out there. I mean, dude is ready to go. I guarantee you he is beyond ready to go on fight night, even if he's not 100%. So when Joe Rogan talks about this being one of, of the fights that he's most looking forward to in a 25-year career, that's not promotional hyperbole at all. Yeah, you mentioned kind of like the progression Jan's made.

And as you know, like in early 2017, he loses to Patrick Cummins and now he's lost four out of five fights. And since then, he's gone eight and one. He's the champion of the world. And if someone told me after the Patrick Cummins fight that we'd be talking about Jan Bojovich world champion in 2020 in 2021, I probably, like, at worst, would have looked at you kind of funny. But for you just sitting there and watching this progression,

what has it been like for you in your position to see what this guy has done over the last three and a half, four years? Well, I would point to the fact that I've gotten to call some of his recent fights and get that valuable face time on Fight Island. We got to be in the room with him. And so you just get a different idea of where a guy is compared to doing a fighter meeting by phone or doing it over Zoom. He was about to have his first child.

He doesn't come in with any coaches. He comes in with his fiance, right? He is so matter of fact, technical knows exactly what's going on in the fight, has everything in order from his cardiovascular training to his sparring partners. He just, you're supposed to keep trending in the right direction. You know, Paul Felder is learning things about his energy system and training right now because of the COVID climate and training for triathlons that he never knew before. So in any walk of life, you still want to be improving and learning.

And I think there are plenty of people in whatever your passion or job is that don't necessarily do that. And I just have a lot of respect for Yan as professional athlete. I think he's used the experience to his benefit. You talk about being two and four in the UFC in Buffalo and thinking you might get cut. And now he's a world champion. So it's been methodical. It hasn't been without setbacks. But if anybody is going to be unintimitated and smartly approaching an Adasania challenge, I think it's him.

Like, I don't think he's going to go in there and be reckless. With Adasanya, if he wins this fight, the options are so many. I mean, he could go back to 85. He could stick around to 205. You know, maybe he goes up and fights John, John Jones, depending on how this year plays out. I mean, do you feel like Adasani could be that guy? Like, we've seen dual champions before Connor and D.C. We've seen Nunes kind of bounce up and down.

Do you think Adasania could do that for the men and be able to bounce up and down from 85 to 205? Like, how do you kind of see that playing out if he beats Janbovovich on Saturday? I certainly wouldn't put that past him even. though he's an undersized middleweight who we've seen weigh in as low as, I think, 183 pounds in the UFC. But I think the world's already, his oyster, I think selfishly as a commentator and a promoter, we're looking for as many title fights as possible. So I'd like him to do some stuff in middleweight because I still think there are big fights

there, whether it's a Whitaker rematch or a Till fight or if Canaaner can build his way back, even a Costa rematch and other guys I'm not thinking about. Gastilum could work his way to a rematch for Manson. So I don't think the cupboard is bare. I don't think middleweight is cleaned out per se. I don't know if Izzy has had anything to say on that front. But he is special in every sense of that word. And whatever that man wants to do, I would tell him to shine on young man.

Love that fight. We co-maned man. We got a man in Nunes defending her 145 pound title against Megan Anderson. As expected, Nunes, just an astronomical favorite. I'm seeing lines as high as minus 1,400. That's a line that she has earned in her career. with the line of work she's put in. But I got to tell you, John, from interviewing Megan Anderson in, like, her

invicted days, 2015, 2016, getting into the UFC to even last year was the last time I spoke with her. This is a different person, man, like her outlook on the sport, on life, kind of separating herself from the negativity in the world. It's just vastly different. And giving a guy like James Krause, this extra time to prepare for any fighter, Nunes or not, this is a massive benefit. I don't know.

Like, I'm not going to sit here and say, like, Megan Anderson is. is a live dog or anything, but I think she's got a better chance than people are given her on Saturday. What are your thoughts on the Featherweight title fight on Saturday night? Amanda Nunes is a friend. She's local here in South Florida. She's the greatest of all time, but I agree with every assessment you have of Megan Anderson. I don't believe this fight is properly priced per se. I think there's value on Megan Anderson and plus 750. And sometimes I'm hesitant to take that stance as a guy who's calling the fight, but I can say it here. I mean, can we start with the fact that she's six feet tall, right?

It doesn't have a ton in reach. I mean, it's like three and a half inches, I think, at last check, maybe that she has in reach. But if you're trying to come up with a recipe to beat Amanda Nunes, you certainly want a fighter who has a good head coach and a good head on her shoulders, and Megan Anderson has that. Maybe she did it a couple years ago when she fought Felicia Spencer. But she's certainly better for having had that experience. I love what she brings to the table. I don't think she's going to be overwhelmed on the ground.

Sometimes you can't quantify strength until you fight somebody, Dustin Porreier famously said, going into the Khabibnir Mago Medov fight, that I just don't know what he's going to feel like until I go in there. And he feels like a bear as we found out. So I'm very curious to see how it'll play out if it does go to the ground. And my expectation is that it will. But not only is Amanda the greatest of all time because of her skills, but it's the coachability. It's the ability to execute a vision of coaches. It's the ability to not force the issue, to wait for a mistake. Even though she has all these skills, she's not going to give you a mistake.

So I don't know. Maybe Megan can force Amanda to make a mistake. But if she doesn't do that, you can understand why she'd be up against it. But I'm excited. I'm excited to see the fight, as I know you are. Do you sort of look at Nunes at this point? I mean, because she's, like you said, greatest of all time. She's done it all.

dual champion. She's been unbeatable for such a long time. At this point in her career, and only she knows the answer to this question, but do you sort of look at Nunes and think, man, we only have this legend with us for so long now? Like we feel like the end of the line is coming at some point. Let's, I guess, sort of bask in this for as long as we can. Absolutely. And I didn't know where you were going with that question. I don't ever think motivation will be an issue when she goes out there and fights because not unlike a George St. Pierre coming back to fight Michael Bisping, you're putting your legacy on the in some way, shape, or form every time you fight.

So I think you'll continue to get close to, if not the best version of Amanda Nunes. But my informed speculation tells me that she doesn't have that many more cuts down to 135 pounds. And I don't know that she has too many more fights. So we've all been privileged to witness the greatness and see all the history, some of us firsthand. But, yeah, I mean, if you're asking me like over, under three and a half more fights for Amanda Nunes, I'm hopeful we get four more.

but I don't know, man, she's done it all and she's gone through a lot of championship training camps and eventually I think the body and the bank account and the family will tell you to step away. Do you buy into the narrative that Megan Anderson isn't just fighting Amanda Nunes? She's not just fighting for the title, but she's fighting for the division. Like there's a speculation. We don't know. Obviously, we have no idea. But do you buy into that narrative?

Do you think there's some truth to that at all? I truly don't know, but I think the women's MMA game overall is, in such a good place that I think there would be every effort to try to preserve a women's division right now. I can't sit here and tell you that that 105 pounds long term for the women would be more likely than 1.45, even though many of your listeners would probably say that it's deeper there. But I'm hopeful the division sticks around. So we'll see if Megan can maybe do something about it. But I'm hopeful that win or lose, it'll be here for the distant future. as much and I'm getting goosebumps just thinking about it as much as I love these two title fights we just talked about

piotrion versus aljermaine sterling all the feels john all the feels this is a competitive delight john annick it's pretty much a pickam at the betting window right now i think there's like a slight lean on yon but there's a lot of title fights coming up but i feel like this is the clear most evenly matched most competitive of all of them and for like the pro wrestling marks this is like the intercontinental title in like the 80s and early 90s. I cannot wait for this fight, John. What sticks out to you with these two warriors finally locking horns?

Does your employer, MMA fighting, make you make a selection on these fights? I will make a selection on the fight. Okay, but you can't reveal that right now, I assume, correct? I'm still thinking about it. I don't know. All right. You're sitting on the fence, but that's okay.

So I'm glad I don't have to make a pick as fascinated as you are. I mean, I would start with Aljo from whom I've expected. big things for a long time. Ray Longo is one of my best friends. He's been on my podcast since episode one, six years ago. So I have a pretty good feel for the inner workings of Aljo and him building to this moment in time. I also think stylistically, you can argue that it's a favorable matchup for him. And he's getting it in a 25-foot octagon as opposed to a 30-footer, which I think

limits some of what can be done. I'm not sitting here telling you that Aljo can't beat Piotrion in a kickboxing match because I think he probably could. But I do believe. believe that there's a clear path of least resistance for Al Jermaine Sterling to get to his grappling and get to his wrestling and his submission game. And for Piotr Yan, he's held up very well when people have tested that skill from him. He has been unbelievable in the UFC. 7 and 0 must see TV every step of the way. Some of the best boxing you've ever seen. And again, has those defensive skills and the heart, the mental toughness, the cardio, total package. So I think the fight is properly priced. I can't wait to see it. Again, they're going to get too.

two-way action on both of these guys. I will say, most of the fighters that I talk to seem to be backing Al Jermaine Sterling, even if it's a 60% majority. And I would also tell you that the Aljo people seem more convicted than the Yon people. But I had a handicap around my show this morning, and he was bullish about Piotr Yan at this price, what he's done from a defensive grappling standpoint in his UFC career. So, yeah, man, you set it up well. I know you're not burying the lead.

This is the fight that is closest on paper. I think that's why the fans are just, you know, Jones. to see it play up. I just, what is it about an Adasanya card where like some of the undercard title fights just stick out to you? Like, I'm not going to, they got big shoes to fill for Zhang Wei Li Yanni and Jacek, but I have that like same feeling I had last year. I don't know about you.

Yeah, and then we had, I guess, when Adasani fought Gasolam. I don't know if it was before or after Porre and Holloway were on that card, I believe. So, yeah, I mean, it's an embarrassment of riches and I can't wait to see it all hold together. 15 fights. So I'm sitting here looking at 10, pretty. limbs, Mike. So it's a little bit intimidating coming off a back-to-back with the with the 30 fighter cards that are empty right now as we speak. Normally, I'd have eight or ten fighters prepped on a Monday. So we got some work to do, but I'm excited. I'm excited for Aljo too, right? Because the Marlin

what I setback, you know, is a two-year setback essentially, right, in terms of your championship aspirations and trajectory. And look at the way he's built himself back up. So excited to see what what the Jamaican-American, I should say, can do with the showcase. And for Piotr-R-Jan at 28, man, if he can get a defense like this against Aljo and then maybe put together a couple against some Sandhagen types, kids well on his way. So I'm excited, man. Can't wait to get back to Vegas. Yeah, you segues the prelims perfect.

Of course, your broadcast colleague, Dominic Cruz is back in there on Saturday, takes on Casey Kenny. And like you said, 135 just rules right now. But this is a great matchup. I love Dominic's attitude about the fight. I love his attitude about the placement on the card. He always just has a great vibe about the fight game. He's got his hands full with Casey Kenny,

who's ready to catapult himself based on his name. This is the fight case he's wanted for a long time. The vet and former champion versus the surging up-and-comer, as surprising as it was to see it on paper, John. It just feels right right now, does it not? I'm getting anxious talking about this one. I mean, Dom is really near and dear to me. We've spent so many hours together on the road.

and I have learned having called fights involving my broadcast partners that it actually is an easier exercise for me to call the fight than to just be a friend sitting home. So I'm excited to call it. I'm excited that Dom has had the training camp that he didn't have necessarily for the Sohudo fight, not taking anything away from C4. But Dominic has the rounds now. You know, he has the health over three or four months. So now he has the confidence, I think, that dovetails with that type of training camp. And I think his style sort of dictates that he needs those rounds and those weeks. So I'm excited to see what version of Dominic Cruz we will see.

Is he as fast? Does he move as well as he did in his fighting prime? Can he still make a championship run? We didn't answer those questions in the So Houdo fight. So Dominic Cruz is going to answer those questions because he's fighting a guy in Casey Kenny, who candidly with three straight wins the way he's done it, deserves to be the betting favorite. And I know a lot of people are surprised and people are saying, oh, back up the brink's truck for

Dominic Cruz as an underdog, well, those people aren't necessarily putting their money where their mouths are because the betting line is holding steady right now. So Casey Kennedy deserves all of the respect that he is getting. He deserves this fight despite the fact that I don't believe he has a number next to his name. I'm excited to see what he can do. He's the total package. I think Dominic likes that he's got some Tucson, Arizona roots. Guys like Dominic Cruz and Nathan and Nick Diaz, you know, they want to give fights to guys who they think deserve it for more reasons than one. And Dominic Cruz, was happy to sign on the dotted line, and we'll see what he can do against Casey Kenney.

If Dom is going to get back to the championship place, it's a must win. You, Rogan, is DZ the third, the third man in the booth here? Yes, sir, breaking news, MMAfighting.com. Oh, yeah. Last thing, and by the way, it's nice to look ahead to this card, and we can put the damn Oklahoma bathroom fight behind us and focus on some title fights. But Fight Island in January.

I mean, this year's been fascinating so far. We've had the big moments. We've had Porier, big win, Kiesa, nice win. Kamar Usman gets the title win over Gilbert Burns. But you had some significantly high praise for one Max Holloway in his performance against Calvin Cater, even calling it potentially the greatest, you know, performance you've been Octagon side for.

I mean, look at that. I don't know. I know we got some audio only, but Ross Baines' art sent me this piece. Wow. Because in large part, he heard me on the air and thank you, Ross. Call it singularly the greatest performance

that I have seen Octagon side. I think previously that distinction went to Colby Covington against Robbie Lawler. How Colby was able to put forth that type of offense, all those takedown attempts, all those strike attempts, over 25 minutes, was a sight to be whole. I mean, truly inhuman stuff. Unbelievable output.

And what Max did against Calvin Cater was a touch better, even though I don't think he attempted a same. single takedown. I have never seen anything like it. I was shaking after the fight. I was shaking. Why was I shaken after the fight? I wasn't dehydrated. Was I shaking because I had to go interview Max for our quick hits web show after the fact? No, I just had interviewed him in the Octagon. I've never been so blown away by a performance than I was by that performance. I can't sit here and tell you why. And I know some people don't, they shun me when I try to put things into

historical context, but that type of offense and execution, his coaches don't get enough credit and maybe he doesn't get enough credit either. But signature performance for him, despite the fact that a belt was not on the line and couldn't have better things or higher praise to say, you know, about that guy. And then that performance of front of fans, man. Like, they were all, they were all over that thing. What was that? I mean, first made him in front of fans in a long time, man, and to deliver that performance. What was that night like for you? It was so great to see fans in the building for so many reasons. And we actually had hockey boards in between us and them.

So I was hoping to have more contact with them than I was able to have. But, you know, we could talk to them, which was cool. And so I was trying to go back and forth with them and scream my lungs out with them off camera, obviously. But just so appreciative that people would spend their money and go in that climate and have to be reminded by me over the PA to put their masks back on because, you know, a lot of them were putting them below the nose at times, but it was great to have fans back in the building. And I don't know, oftentimes these shows go by

and we find ourselves asking our fellow broadcasters, man, like when, when, when, when? Like, when is this apex even going to be filled with fans? Like, when? And I don't know, man. I'm not as ambitious as I was that it's going to be 2021, but we'll see. But yeah, they definitely added to that fight.

And for Max, I'm glad he had that type of backdrop. Absolutely. You are the man, John. I appreciate the time, as always. I cannot wait for Saturday. Enjoy the fight week build and the card and all that stuff, man. All the best to you. Life is good, right?

Life is good. Dude, life is really good, you know? I mean, these pay-per-views are so exciting for us as fans. The fact that we get paid to whatever degree to talk about them is pretty special. So, yeah, man, wheels up to Las Vegas and hopefully this 15 fighter holds together. Great stuff, as always with John Anick. The man just gets you fired up. Doesn't he?

Always appreciate his time. His great insight is always. And I will reveal this now. I'm not going to, I think my hints will give it away, but we're going to have another longtime veteran voice of the Octagon, joining us later on this week to discuss UFC 259. Perhaps the man who will be the most dapperly dressed on Saturday night. I think you know who that's going to be.

That'll be a lot of fun. So look for that later on this week as we move ahead to one of the big winners from UFC Vegas 19 a little over a week ago. Let us welcome back Julian Arosa to what the heck. All right, let us welcome back Julian Arosa, the program. The Resurgence continues. One of the best under the radar stories in the UFC, in my opinion. Now, 2 and 0 with two finishes is making his return to the company last year.

Most recently, he puts away Nate Landware with a vicious flying knee in the first round at UFC Vegas 19. Happy to welcome Juicy Jay back to the show. How are you, man? I'm doing fantastic. Thanks for having me on the show, Mike. Absolutely. Congratulations on the win. Incredible performance. It's crazy, man. To see where you were a little over a year ago, people close to, you know, you were talking to me about people close to you showing their concern for your well-being

after the Julia Arce fight. Like, should you continue on and now seeing where you're at now, three finishes in a row, you're climbing the ranks in the UFC's Featherweight Division. Life's just a crazy thing, man, is it not? Oh, yeah. You know, coming off that early Lardza fight being one and four in the UFC and now looking at you know being like

you know ranked in the you know upper 30 you know UFC featherways after those two fights is just it's amazing you know to think I was probably never going to fight in the UFC again and then you know the shutdown happening and you know the UFC needing

guys a step up short notice and I told myself that's the opportunity that I might need and I might get and so you know sure enough with the Sean Woods on fight was able to get that capitalize on that and then get a camp in there and be able to fight in eight land wear with a you know five-week camp and you know I think I went out there and was able to perform you know under you know some of the best circumstances I felt like I had ample time to get ready for that fight my weight was great no injuries no like nagging little you know shoulder

pains or knee pains that felt really good the PI has been giving me supplements and helping me my weight and stuff so everything just seems so on point for that fight and I was just so mentally focused as well and I think it you know everything came to fruition like I imagined for the past five weeks and obviously it's just nice to get you know two separate types of finishes you know a knockout and a submission my last two fights you know it's spectacular you know for them you know under the UFC banner you know sometimes it just takes a little perspective you maybe change a couple wrinkles up here and there and the switch flips and you know you go into Vegas training at extreme couture a gym that's been having a lot of success as of

the environment there, also having the PI your disposal, the environment at Extreme Gator must be off the charts right now with confidence and positivity. Like how important has that overall change been, not just for yourself, but just being in a room with a bunch of confident fighters bought into a system in a successful one? Yeah, you know, I think it's obviously you go in there as an individual

and you've got to fight, but we're doing this as a team day in and day out. So when your team starts to win, and everybody's kind of like checking off these wins, you know, left and right. It can build that confidence within the team and within other people, you know, and they see that, you know. When you're in the gym with some of these guys training day in and day out and they go out there and, you know, you handle business like they should, it gives you confidence, especially if you do good with those guys in the gym, you know,

if you're, you know, keeping up with all the guys around you and they're out there performing well, it gives you that confidence to do the same. And, you know, and vice versa, you know, if people, are losing on your team, then it can really drag other people down. You know, there was, you know, like I said, you know, last time I talked to you, I mean, a couple of times before I talked to you, you know, coming up of a three-fight skid with the UFC, you know, and other people losing on the same team, it can really, you know, drag people down mentally, physically and emotionally.

You know, but once, you know, the momentum switches and people start seeing, you know, positive outcomes for people that are in the gym working hard, I think it just kind of rubs off on other people and they can go out there and do the same thing. For a fight that lasted less than a minute, it was a rumble, man. Both of you guys were out there. There were absolute heaters.

This was like right in your wheelhouse fighting a guy like Nate from a stylistic perspective because he's a guy that likes to get after it. You like to get after it. I assume nothing surprised you at all in there. Oh, no, not at all. I was really hyper-focused on

just everything leading up to that fight and then when I stepped in the cage, I could just feel everything. I could feel, I almost felt like I could feel his emotions. I felt like he was nervous and, you know, a little timid and scared. And right when we started going, I just felt like he just had all this nervous energy. And I was really like calm, cool, and collected. And probably the most focused I've ever been in a fight and just clear-headed right from the gate.

Like sometimes you have to like move around a little bit to kind of get out of that tunnel vision. But for me, right out the gate, getting right in his face, I felt everything. which is as clear as possible. I could almost feel, you know, like I said, is like almost his nervous energy. And I felt right when we stepped in the cage, even when, you know, Bruce Bufers, you know, introducing us and the refs, you know,

asking us if we're ready to go. Like, even at that time, I could just feel everything was just, you know, everything just felt right. And even though he was, I knew he was ready to, you know, to brawl it out. I figured, you know,

the quicker that I get on him, the better it's going to be for me. because I was so clear-headed and I felt like he might need, you know, because even in the Darren Elkins' fight, I felt like it took him a little while, but he started getting confident towards the end of the fight when he started feeling like things were going his way. It wasn't like he came out of the gate screaming at Elkins.

He wasn't, like, overconfident in the beginning of that fight, but when things started going his way, he started acting like that. And for me, I felt like he needed things to go his way to do the same thing in our fight. So for me, if I just got on him quick, I wouldn't let him, you know, get comfortable and getting his groove. And, you know, that's what happened. You know, we, I wanted to get on him quick. And I was pretty technical in the beginning.

And then, you know, he hit me with a shot. You know, after that shot, it was like a, like the gun at a race, you know, as soon as he hit me, that gun shoots off. And then it's, you know, everything's kind of going out the window. We're just going to, you know, kind of brawl it out. And that's what I expected. I expected him to, you know, be willing to brawl. And I just felt like my timing. my clarity, even if I was rocked a little bit in those weird exchanges,

was going to be better than his. And, you know, it turned out to be better and was able to capitalize on that. Have you experienced that before, like having that pre-fight read of energy levels and things like that? Like, is that something you've experienced before? Is this just like a different, sort of a different feeling, a different scenario for you? I've had that feeling before, you know, kind of on the regional scene against other guys that were, you know, obviously less, less skilled and less better than even Nate Landware, you know, you know, going out and fighting some of these guys that I was, like, really confident in.

I was able to, you know, get more comfortable leading up to the fight. Sometimes when you're fighting certain guys, you know, you start, like, reading into, you know, what they're good at and kind of get you nervous. And, you know, Nate Landware, even the way he talks, he's like, he's got a real deep voice. He just, he just sounds like a rugged dude, you know, like. So just even hearing him talk, interviews and just being around him, like, I could see how some people would let that get kind of in their head. Like, man, this guy just like, he sounds tough. But just because you sound tough, you could look tough.

I mean, even Loris Sanko was doing an interview with me and him. And after the fight as well, she did an interview with me. And it was like even though he seems like more of a dog than me, like just in his own personality, I'm, you know, I feel like, you know, I speak pretty intelligent. and, you know, I'm kind of clean cut a little bit, but, you know, and even though he's a little bit rougher around the edges, I feel like I'm even more of a dog than he is, but, uh, some people's perspective is everything, you know, and for me, I knew I was more of a dog than he was. Uh, I just felt like he had to like try to, uh, persuade everybody more about that. Like, you know, with a mullet, you know, talking like, just, he just kind of talks a little bit,

I don't know, a little hood, you know, and like interviews that we had to. together. It was just like I felt like it was more of a persona thing for him that he was just trying to act a little bit harder than he was. But for me, I just know that I'm a dog like that. And I wasn't trying to take anything away from him. I just felt like he was, he was just trying to push it a little harder for people than I was. And, you know, but, you know, it's kind of just everything adding up. I think it just, it really helped me kind of get in that mindset of, you know, warming up, getting out there and fighting, just getting really comfortable with the whole process of it.

And I've kind of, you know, switched my mental game a little bit too and try to make things a little bit more simple. The more you have on your mind, the tougher it is to, you know, be able to, you know, focus on certain things. If you get too many, it's almost like on your phone when you have too many apps running, you know, that can, you know, drive you crazy. So, you know, I just wanted to keep it simple and go out there and just focus on a few things. And I think that's what kind of helped me, you know, getting that state of mind.

You had him in trouble even before the flying knee. You were winning the exchanges. You had him moving backwards. You were landing big shots. And as soon as his back went against the cage, you land the flying knee clean, he drops and the fights over. Was that just instinct? Or did you guys sort of work on the flying knee?

Did you see an opening for that ahead of the fight? Like, how did that all play out for you? Well, we've actually worked that specific technique a lot where, you know, you get somebody on the warning track is what we call it. So like in the octagon, they have that little black taped octagon inside the octagon, which is like a couple feet away from the cage. And whenever we get someone kind of backed up in that area, they feel like either, you know,

they start feeling trapped. So they're going to try to, like, shoot at you or, you know, they try to back up. They're going to have a hard time being able to get away from shots because the cage is on their back. So initially I caught a leg kick and he kind of tripped up and fell into the cage. And I came at him and I tried to throw him a right knee up the middle. And his head went to the left side.

or my right side. So he went on the opposite side of the knee that I threw. And that exchange and kind of grappled with me. And then that's when the whole altercation happened. He dropped me to my feet. And then we started going crazy. And I'd already kind of like, you know, I've already took in that information that he'd, you know,

wanted to grapple. So as soon as we got to the cage. So when we started kind of going crazy, I hit him with a couple uppercuts, missed a couple hooks, and then kind of pushed him back. And he was towards the cage. And then you see me,

kind of hesitate for half a second. And then I was just kind of reading him. And then I did the jumping knee and he just, I mean, he dove his head right into my knee. So not only was it me throwing a skip knee, which generates a lot of power, but he,

you know, him ducking in also generates even more power on his end. And I think, you know, it was just a good timing, but it's something we've worked quite a bit. And even before the fight, uh,

one of his, you know, one of his last two UFC fights, he fought Herbert Burns and got knocked out with a knee. And so I figured he'd be susceptible to kind of up the middle things like, you know, teep kicks, knees up the middle, uppercuts, things like that. So I was really working on just keeping everything straight and just down the pipe or up the middle. So, you know, it just, it's just game planning,

you know, at its finest, you know, just trying to find those spots and capitalize on them. And I think it worked out and it's, you know, in the best way it possibly could for me, you know, and I've been on the other side of that, you know, I've been knocked out and it sucks. And I know he was arguing that it might have been. been a quick stoppage, but there was nothing positive that was going to happen in his near future if that fight kept going. Yeah, I'm glad I'm glad you mentioned the controversy. I'm sure you've addressed it a few times, but it just seems like, and we were talking about it on the post-fight show afterwards, it was one of those situations where the controversy that kind of played out there

might have cost you 50,000 bucks, man. And it's tough to be a referee because Mark Smith's one of the best in the game because rarely you get praise for making like a right stoppage and a right call. But if you let a fight go on too long or a fighter takes excessive or unnecessary damage. I mean, it's like a whole different ballgame. And we saw multiple times on the same card with fights refereed by Chris Tione. Of course, for you, getting the win is the most important thing, punching on an early time clock, etc. But was the controversy a little frustrating for you? Like, did it kind of take away from the win at all? Well, you know, when you really watch the fight and you watch kind of, there's a couple of views that they have, there's a view where the cage is kind of blocking it, so you can't really

see what happens. And they have another view where it's my back face of the camera. And, uh, and you can see, I mean, my knee just lands flush on his jaw and he completely just like falls to the ground. Um, and it looks really bad to a referee in that position. And I went to punch him once and I could, when I hit that knee and he fell over, his eyes were, you know, kind of rolling around. And then I hit him when I hit him, it looked like it kind of made me woke him up a little bit. And I'm not saying that he was out completely because I don't think he was out, you know, completely at all. I think he got rocked pretty hard. And, uh, but, you know, the whole game plan, honestly with me and my coaches were, was to get him on the ground, you know, eventually,

um, and grappled with him a little bit because we felt like my grappling was at levels above his. And, uh, you know, obviously we want to work the stand-up stuff. I felt like that, I was, I felt like I was better than him everywhere, but we eventually wanted to get him on the ground. So, you know, the only thing that was going to happen was he was going to take a couple more shots. Mark Smith was going to hop in and stop it, or we were going to get into grappling exchange, and I was going to probably choke him out. So, I mean, for him to complain, I've been on that side before, you know,

I've been caught with a shot and, you know, got up and was just like, man, what's, you know, give me a little bit more time, you know, but, you know, the rep goes in the back and he tells you these things, and he says, hey, man, I need to make sure, you know, that you're okay and you're good. So if anything happens, you know, if, you know, and it caught us up, I need a thumbs up, you know, if you get rocked and need you to be moving constantly, because otherwise I'm going to stop the five,

I think you're in danger. And, you know, it's neither one of our faults. It's not an eight's fault. It's not my fault. It's not even Mark Smith's fault. You know, it's a, he has to make a split decision, you know,

to help him out. And I would, you know, appreciate a rep doing the same for me. It's, it's a difficult situation. But Nate's the one who put himself in that, you know, he signed the contract. So he was willing to, you know,

you know, get knocked out or, you know, have the option of getting knocked out and that's what happened and Mark Smith was just doing his job. I don't think it was early by any means of like where it's like way too early because there's times you watch a fight and you're just like what the heck is why they stop that fight

but I could see how you know this did get stopped you know and then one thing that's crazy too to me it's like Olinick the guy who I can't remember the kid's name who beat Olinick but he TKO was him against the cage standing up and that was a good stoppage because he was just not protecting himself. I mean, he was blocking, but he wasn't fighting back. But it's crazy because

as soon as the rep stops it, Olinick just walks off like nothing, nothing happened. Like, everything's all good. So like, you see stoppages like that and no one says anything about it. And then you see my stoppage and people are like, oh, well, it's just early, you know, but. And then that kind of bothered me too because it's like, that guy got a TKO standing up against a 43 year old man who's not going to be the best on the feet. You know, Olinick's not known for his standup. He's known for his grappling. And that guy got a $50,000 bonus. And it was like, man, what else do you want from me? I gave a, solid minute. I think the one minute of

cage time that me and Nate had was the most exciting minute of the entire night. So I figured I was, oh, the 50 G's, but you know what? You never want to count your chickens before they hatch. And I'm just happy that, you know, I was on the right side of the outcome of the night. Fair enough. You set the table

because it was a great night for the team, Casey O'Neill, who was on the show last week. She had a hell of a debut. She stopped Sean Adopson in the second round, puts on this just relentless pace. And although, you know, like a lot of these prospects up and coming was a little hard on herself with the performance, even though everyone's praising it. She opened up a lot of eyeballs. What did you make of her performance and then just her potential overall?

Well, I knew for a fact she was going to go out there and just, you know, murder it, man. She's just in the gym. She's probably one of the most aggressive people, you know. She's willing to, you know, just go hard at every practice. And she's pretty relentless, whether it's sparring, grappling. wrestling, you know, pad work, any of the above. She's, she's not the type to ever fall out or to slow down in the gym. So I knew she's going to go out there, just be relentless the whole time. And, you know, that's what she did. You know, she was, you know, relentless on keeping a girl down

and just working her game. And even though, you know, you're always going to be critical about anything that you do in the cage, you know, shoot, even for the one minute that I was in there, I got hit with a shot that put me to my knee. And, you know, there's still, even if you have flawless victories, there's still things that you can learn from those, you know, whether it's weight cut part or it's whether it's the, you know, the warming up in the back or come walking out or any, any part of the fight as well. And so she's, you know, she's going to be a little bit upset with certain things, but you got to be happy with your debut when you do that on, with a girl who just had the biggest upset. Shot Adopson, her last fight before Casey was

the biggest upset. And she'd be, you know, be a good girl back then. So for Casey, you go out there to do what she did. She should be proud, you know, and, you know, another couple of performances like that, she'll be at the top. She said, you know, she was talking about you last week, and she said, like, your resurgence has been really inspiring for her, just showed her that, you know, the sky's a limit. You keep your focus. You can get this thing done. So that's kind of her aspect. When you look at her, what does that make you think about, like, sort of the next generation of unbecoming fighters? It's like, there's a lot to be excited about. And a lot of these fighters are starting at a really young age. It's got to be kind of weird for you to see being in the sports,

long kind of seeing this next evolution of fighters on the come-up. Yeah, I didn't start doing MMA until I was 18 years old, you know, 18, 18 and a half. And so seeing some of these people that are in the UFC when they're, you know, in their early 20s, it's, you know, it's mind-blowing to me. It's like, it's just with anything else, you know, any sport as you watch every generation gets better. You see people, I mean, especially with the social media now, you see some of these kids at like four years old hitting pads and I'm, what is going on?

I didn't know what to throw a jab until I was about, you know, 19 years old or a correct jab for a while, you know, even after training. So, like, you know, seeing some of these people, which is, it's crazy how, like, things can just escalate so quickly, you know. You know, the UFC is, you know, relatively young for a sport and, and MMA in general. And to see some of these guys, you know, coming up so quick, it's crazy. It just, well, it just goes to show that, yeah, no matter how long you've been training or what you've been doing, always something to learn. And that's kind of always been my mind state. Anytime I go into a gym, even somebody like Casey could show me something, you know, and I would never feel like I would never feel too proud to learn something from someone that's, you know, way younger than me. And, you know,

might not be as skilled in all aspects of it as I am. But I always try to go into practices and into training sessions and training rooms with the open mind that anybody can teach me anything, you know. And so I think that's the best way to look at it. But yeah, when you see these kids come, up. It's like, man, I wish I would have started out. I wish my mom and dad would put me in karate or wrestling or something, you know, some sort of mixed martial arts when I was young, but I was a skateboard or snowboard and they let me do that. So I appreciated that for them. But yeah, you see some of these kids and it's, you know, it's absolutely amazing. I feel like Eric Nixick, not only him, but just the entire coaching staff over at Extreme Couture,

starting to get that shine as one of the top coaching staffs in the sport. But at the same time, I still feel like they're woefully underrated. Like, do you agree with that? as well. Like, even though the shine's starting to shine a little bit on them, it's not where it probably should be. Well, yeah, you know, I think, you know, extreme couture is like one of the biggest gyms in Vegas. And there's just so many, so many talented people going in and out of there on every given day, you know, it's like, you know, I train with some of the best in the world and Eric does a good job and all the coaches in there. You know, we have, you know, a really good jujointed coach. And, you know, even in Tenth Planet here in Vegas,

we got so many good guys over there and anywhere you really go that's within these inner circles of MMA here in Vegas it's like you can get some of the best wrestlers boxers, kickboxers, grapplers, MMA fighters

and every and all these gyms at any given time on any day you know and so going into a wrestling practice you might find you might see like six or seven UFC guys and like you can get all the best work and people travel here too so it's like not only

do we get the regular guys every single day, but you get a lot of people that come in from out of the country, out of town, and they know that extreme couture is one of the places to go, like one of the bigger gyms and better gyms to go. And so, you know, all the time we get people from, you know, all these different places that come and train with us. And you don't have to travel anywhere.

You just go down the road to the normal gym you're always at. And, you know, on a random day, you get, you know, some of these guys coming from Australia, you know, Brazil, or anywhere in the states coming to visit. and you get, you know, those guys, you get those looks as well. So, you know, it's just, it's, there's so much talent. And it's, I mean, I think, I think a lot of the gyms here in Vegas are underage is because there's so many of them, but there's just so much talent going in and out of them.

Aljo's there, right? Getting ready for theater. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, just like that. I mean, you know, Al Jermaine, you know, he started training extreme. I think he moved out here, not too long ago, but it's like, you know, you walk in the gym, Al Jermaine Sterling's here and he's fighting for a title. You know, right when I walked into Vegas,

extreme court tour, I was training with Kevin Ledy helping get by here for Tony Bergerz and to fight for a title. So like, I went from Yakima, Washington, training with just random people, you know, and then coming out here and helping Kevin Lee out. And then you got like, you know, like Al Jermaine, you got, you know, some of these guys that, you know, been doing this for years and years.

And you see him and you're like, holy crap, that's that guy. That's that guy. And it's kind of mind-blowing at first. But after a while, you just start to understand understand they're just like you, you know, they're just in a, uh, uh, they're just fighters, you know, just working towards their dream as well. I can't wait for that fight on Saturday Sterling versus John. So good. So good. In card too, we got a lot of guys. I mean, Joe Benavides is fighting along Cruz is fighting as well.

Um, uh, an older teammate of mine, uh, Tim Elliott's fighting as well. I mean, we just, and it's just such a stacked card. It's going to be a crazy, uh, crazy fight, you know, three title fights as well. So I'm looking forward to it. There you go. I can sit back. Watch as a fan kind of relish in your victory. So kind of going back to like what you've been able to do. I mean, you're climbing the ranks. Like you said, you're in like towards the upper third of the divisional rankings. Just fought for 56, 57 seconds a couple of weeks ago.

You weren't listed on the medical suspensions, which is always a good thing. But what sticks out to you time frame-wise for when you want to get back? Ideally, I think May or June would be nice. You know, I don't want to be out like, I mean, I had some situational stuff that happened. I had corona liars and stuff and some infections I was dealing with in the cut. So, you know, being out eight months wasn't ideal for me, but sometimes you need something to set you back and just kind of, you know, not, you know, not jump at every opportunity all the time.

You know, you don't need to do that. You know, you can find, you know, the smarter. You know, you can find, you know, the smarter. You know, not every fight has to be a shorter-nose fight. But, you know, so I don't want to wait, you know, that long. I hope, you know, as long as I can stay healthy, I would like to get a turn around within the next three or four months. And possibly earlier, you know, depending on, you know, you know,

situations and and opponents that I'd be, you know, trying to, you know, get lined up with and kind of where they're, you know, what they, would they be thinking on their end as well. So I would, you know, I think May or June would be nice, but, you know, you never know what this sport. I could maybe take another three to notice fight. Yeah, I mean, because 1.45 is such a loaded division, man. Like, you came back at a great time where things just are getting really interesting. And I know you don't necessarily care who you fight.

like you're being a little smarter about at this point in your career, but you're the kind of guy that says, yes, you put pen to paper and then you go and fight. But you're another win, maybe two away from having that number next to your name, you know, 1 through 15. Is there a match about there that kind of sticks out to you that maybe gets you to that next step? Well, you know, I've been wanting to fight Alex Casares, and he just fought and looked pretty good.

I know he's not really ranked super high, but I don't even know if he's ranked at all or where he stands in that. I just think, you know, if I was to fight Alex Casaris and get a win over someone like him, a veteran, I mean, he's got like 24 UFC fights, I was able to get a win over someone like that that would kind of solidify me a little bit more in this division. But, you know, just, you know, anything's open, you know. The only reason why I say Alex Casares is just because I think he's got a really cool style. I've, you know, always liked watching his fights.

And I feel like me and him being kind of unorthodox, would throw him on a good fight. and neither one of us are afraid to just stand for a whole fight and just kind of hanging out. But yeah, someone like that would be, you know, it would be nice to fight a little bit, you know, someone that's a little more solidified, you know, Sean Woodson, I think I was his second UFC fight.

And same with Nate Landwehr, it's like he was one in one when I fought him. So it's like maybe get someone that has a few more UFC fights than that. And I mean, because Sarah's got 24 of them. So I think that would be a great matchup. And he just fought. So, I mean, maybe me and him can get,

and didn't seem like he took much damage, so maybe me and him can get a fight going in a few months, and I think something like that would be nice. I know I asked Jason, my manager, a while back, to try to get, you know, see if Casares would want to fight, but this was before I had any kind of pull and any kind of wins under my belt, but now that I feel like I got a couple of wins,

solid wins, that I could maybe get some attention for some of those type of guys. Yeah, I like that. That's a good piece of business right there. last thing and i'm curious to get your thoughts on this because like we talked about you've been at this thing for a while over a decade professionally 33 pro fights and we're seeing things sort of veer away from like the old school ways of preparing for fights like we've seen guys like max holloway guys like belal mohammed daniel cormier talk about the importance of not doing any hard sparring and then we saw like stories that one of my colleagues steven morocca wrote about spencer fisher where he's at in his life now mac danzig is a is a recent

one. So I'm curious as a guy who's been part of these like different generations in the sport, what is your take on sparring and those stories I just mentioned because it can be a really scary thing to think about. Yeah, I mean, you know, especially like nowadays, I mean, they're still trying to do so many studies on like our brains, you know, like we don't know what's kind of going on. Luckily for me, I go to the Cleveland Clinic every year. They do MRIs, cascans. And, you know, I've, you know, every time I've done it, uh, everything seems to be good. And everything seems to be okay. But I think it, you know, I think it only takes really one good shot.

And you could be, you know, you could lose a lot of lives or a lot of years off your life. I mean, nobody wants to end up like Ali or any of those, you know, those types of guys. But there's a, I think there's kind of a great area. Back in the day, I think even my old coach used to say they used to just beat the shit out of each other every day. It's like they sparred every day almost. And nowadays, I think people are getting a little smarter. and not only sparring less, but while they're sparring, just doing more situational things.

Like, hey, you know, my guy's a south paw. Can you move south paw for me? And, you know, and keeping the pace high, but, you know, shortening up the power to about 60% to wear, you know, and wearing headgear and doing that kind of stuff and, you know, making it a little less dangerous in that sense, you know. And also, you know, if you're getting ready for a fight, you don't want to get concussed.

You don't want to get cut. But you also need to be in those little bit of firefights so you don't go in the cage and you haven't done that. And then it happens to you and you feel like you don't want to be uncomfortable in those settings. So, I mean, it's kind of one of those gray areas. But I think for me, I was even talking to my wife about like maybe pulling back because I extremely sparked Tuesdays and Thursdays. And maybe pulling back one of those days and doing something else, whether it's conditioning, grappling, padwork, bag work. whatever it is. Or maybe just moving around with a partner where we're not, you know,

not sparring hard, but still kind of getting the cage, you know, cage movement in and, you know, maybe, you know, going with guys that, you know, are optimal for your upcoming opponents. And, yeah, but it's sad, you know, these guys like Spencer Fisher, you know. But that guy's old school, you know, I'm sure those guys beat each other up three, four, five times a week. And it's, you know, they just, you know, we're too tough for our own good. So you've got to have these coaches to, you know, kind of steer you in the right direction

and also to have these coaches that you're confident in telling them, hey, man, I took a couple of hard shots and, you know, I'm not feeling the best. Instead of being like, all right, fuck it, you know, just it's part of it, you know, just, you know, sack your balls up and keep doing it. You know, you got to have these guys that are watching out for you and being smart for you, you know, because a lot of us fighters are too tough for our own good. Julian Erosa story is amazing. It really is.

Putting it all together right now, it's just been amazing to watch. And I think that I wouldn't say callout, but his wish and request to fight Alex Casares seems very realistic to me. That's an interesting fight. Both guys have fought, I wouldn't really consider Kevin Krum a prospect at this point, but in the UFC, it's only a second UFC fight. They haven't really fought guys with a lot of octagon time over their last couple. So I think sort of veteran on veteran matchup, I really like that one. So hopefully we see it. Featherweight's awesome right now.

It really is. As we move ahead to our next guest, she has fought pretty much everywhere over the last 13, 14 years. But she is set to make her debut for the professional fighters league this season at 155 pounds. Caitlin Young joins what the heck right now. All right. Move ahead to our next guest. As you may have seen last week, one of the newest members of the PFL women. lightweight roster was officially announced, and she's joining us right now, EliteXC Vet, Risen

Vet, longtime Invictive Vet, and now hoping to win a cold Millie this season for the Professional Fighters League. Let us say hello to Caitlin Young. Kately, how are you? I'm doing great. How are you? I'm doing great. It's great to have you here. This is the first time you and I have spoken since 2015 where you competed for Lion Fight. We've come a long way, you and I. Yeah, we certainly. I certainly have. That was, um, Man, I think I'd tie box for like four years or five years. Gosh, 2015.

It must have been. Yeah. Early on in our new stages in life. But it's great to have you back here all these years later. It's nice to see your name show up on the PFL roster as well. We noticed that there were some open slots when the rosters were first revealed. So I'm curious, when were you brought in to the full? Like when were you made aware that you were in for a chance to win a million bucks here?

Oh, gosh. That's a good question. It was fairly recent. It was a Could have been more than a month ago that I heard about it. And you know, obviously like the tournament was cooking for a minute. So, yeah, but I was pretty excited, you know. There's some women in that tournament I've wanted to fight a long time.

So getting that opportunity is pretty nice. Who in particular, like kind of stood out to you when you looked at the roster? So like obviously like Cindy Dandoah and I were supposed to fight years ago because we've both been in the game a really long time so it'll be fun if that finally happens. I love to fight Kayla. I know that Larissa is a tough fight too.

So there are a bunch that look like a good time. And like really at this point in my career, I'm only interested in tough fights, you know. There you go. So we sort of like ran off. your pro-credentials in terms of organizations you've competed for and you've been a part of many events, but obviously PFL doing things a little different with kind of more of a professional sports mentality, regular season playoffs, you know, multiple fights in the night towards the finals is a possibility.

How do you like this format since this is something a bit more unique in the MMA space? I really like it. I was just telling some of my teammates the other day that you can tell it was sort of designed for to elicit like kind of aggressive fights because the way that the season works you know you don't necessarily it's not just if you win

it's how you win and you get more points for that if you are really aggressive and you finish early so I think that's like a really exciting part of it I think also like knowing oh you're going to fight this date this date and this state

and being able to plan multiple fights in a row is is really nice and not something we usually get to have in combat sports. So that's pretty exciting as well. Yeah. When they debuted their first season, it was like a breath of fresh air, which was really fun to watch. It just was something that was kind of needed in the sport. And plus the fights are really good. So it was like a really good introduction for them. So I do want to go back to sort of that stretch between 2014 and 2018 where you just kind of went away from the MMA space. You know, you had a bit of a tough stretch without a win in five fights. But, you know, looking back at it now, the level of competition you were fighting,

it was obviously no joke. But there was sort of a misconception that, you know, you took a break from everything. But it was just from MMA. You mentioned the Muay Thai fights. You know, we talked about the line fight interview. We had a while back. How pivotal would you say was that time away from MMA, like kind of traveling that different path, so to speak, because, you know, since you came back, it seems to have done pretty well for you.

yeah absolutely um i met a new trainer carpette patrachrapat and he was amazing really helping me out and sometimes you know when you're in a slide you need a different look and and um that was great and then just getting back to tieboxing which i always loved but you know i was able to work on part of the mental aspects of the sport um and like i said i was still having really tough fights uh and traveling internationally that's like a different animal to I was taking fights with the U.S. kickboxing team, Waco kickboxing, overseas as well, fun Thailand a bit. And just getting that experience and then bringing that back to MMA.

I was also matchmaking at the time. And seeing fights from an objective standpoint like that really gives you some different insight about yourself even. So it was really great. And then when I decided to come back, It was just different. Just like anything in life as you gain experience, you're able to draw on more.

So it's been great. So when you took the break, did you think that you'd be gone for four years? I didn't think I was ever going to come back. Honestly, I didn't think I was ever going to do MMA again. And I remember my first fight back was actually enrisen. Yeah. And the betting odds were so skewed.

a friend of my corner bet like a grand and made six. It was ridiculous. Because everybody thought I had been sitting on the couch for four years. Because, you know, the MMA fans don't really pay attention to tie boxing. So I'm sure they were just like, yeah, she's just trying to make some money and take this fight for whatever. But I've been training hard and competing very frequently, sometimes like every six weeks in tie boxing. So it was a great experience. and I recommend it to any young fighters if they're having a tough time is like, you know,

going to another sport with a little less spotlight and work on yourself there. So what made you come back to MMA? Was there like a certain day you woke up? You're just like, you know what, I want to come back? Like, what was that switch for you? You know, seeing the 145 is doing the tough, that tough episode coming up, or season or other. And then also just like I had been performing really well in Muay Thai. And I was like, you know, there's no reason I can't go back and do this to MMA.

I want to see if I can. I want to see if I can carry this with me. So it was mostly like that, you know, conquering that challenge. Because I was not happy with how I went out prior to that. I was on like a four-fights skids. What was it like getting back? You mentioned the Rise and Fight. What was it like getting back in the Invicta Cage in 2018?

team because, I mean, you were on the very first show in 2012. You had the split draw with Leslie Smith. But to get back in that Invicta Cage four years later and get a first round finish of Sarah Patterson, who unfortunately is no longer with us, very sad stuff. But, you know, what was that moment like for you just getting back in there four years later and just kind of see where how far women's MMA had come in those four years? Yeah. It was incredible.

You know, I always like loved Invicta. And oddly it was because I'd been matchmaking, it was a little distrable. because it was fighters that I was used to, I don't know, like kind of taking care of and, you know, they're getting their nose busted up and usually, if I was matching, I'd go check on them, but I'm like, no, you got to go out and fight in a second. But it was incredible. And the level of just comfort in there was really, really great. Because there was some anxiety before it, you know, because I hadn't performed it in a victim the way I wanted to before, you know, for some of the fights. So just getting back in and realize like, no, it's, it's, it's just like, it's just like it should have been. It was great.

So you're four and one since you got back to MMA. You did have a fight last year, got a unanimous decision went over Latoya Walker in July. Of course, last year was kind of a mess, kind of carried over this year with the pandemic. You know, you were looking to bounce back from that loss to Pam for the title. I think you, did you open a gym last year, too? Like, how would you describe your 2020? So we opened a gym March 2nd and then got promptly shut down March 17th. So it was crazy.

And I'd always known we wanted to open up before I retired for, you know, like at least have a couple of year overlap because obviously like it's easier to kind of generate buzz for your gym if you have active fighters. But we're so lucky. We had a lot of people that we've known for a long time come with us when we opened. So that's been, they're amazing. I have to give our other instructors a shout out because they've been covering stuff for me while I'm fighting or just, you know, training. Can't be given a bunch of energy to other people when you need it for yourself, especially something like this PFL tournament that's so high stakes.

So I've been really fortunate. I just love her gym. And amazingly, we made it, you know. we've been shut down I think three or four months out of last year but uh somehow we're pulling through so uh and then the gym's growing so it was a it was a crazy year and i was fortunate to be able to fight it all in 2020 um but yeah it's been a very fun journey so this new chapter for you in the pfl is going to begin very soon you're going to do it at 155 do you like the fact that it's at 155 like i know you've been mostly at 3rd

35 and 45 throughout your career, but do you like the idea of doing this at 55? Well, yeah, we have to quarantine for quite a while before the fights. So I really like that and that the making weight issue is not going to be hard for me at 55. I mean, to be honest, it is a little bit heavy for me, but I'm not somebody who's been overpowered a lot. So I feel comfortable with it. You know, I'll just eat and train hard. And as a female fighter, because the weight classes are so low, like, you almost never get that opportunity. Just eat well and see what your body does.

And I'll be able to make weight either way. You know, there's no heavy weight for us. So I don't mind it, actually. Yeah, it's nice when you don't have to cut off like an insane amount of weight, right? Right. Yeah, exactly. I think it'll be good. So, because, you know, everybody cuts weight.

Nobody's, nobody that's fighting in 45 walks at 45. almost nobody um so i i don't think i'll be like ridiculously undersized or anything there you go so what is the kind of the quarantine set up like for pfl like do you go out there is it just like a normal fight week but you're just you know you're in your room most of the time maybe have your own place to train like how does that going to work so from what i understand like i haven't been there yet um but from what i understand like it's 17 days before the fight they're quarantining us so it's not just like fight week it's going to be like like we're doing the last bit of our camp there.

Oh, wow. Yeah, so it'll be really interesting. I've got some great guys that are coming with me, Marcus Better, and Tommy Matlin, I believe, and we'll knock out the rest of the training and then hop it in the cage. I do want to mention Kayla Harrison. You mentioned her. Obviously, gold medalist in the Olympics and judo, highly touted right out of the gate, eight and no in her career, won the season last year, even got to fight for Invicta at

145 last year and got a brutal stop. What have you made of her rise at this point? She's doing, you know, doing a great job as a crossover athlete. So it's good to see. On one hand, it's sort of, it's a bummer that, like, that MMA is one of the only sports where women are making the kind of money you want to make in combat sports. Like, tie boxing the pay is like nothing.

Jiu-Jitsu, they don't make anything. And judo, I think, has just been that way. It's more of an amateur sport. So if you're not playing on doing the Olympic-type competitions anymore, I don't know that it makes sense. But it's cool to see somebody bringing that level of another combat art into MMA because I think it presents a different kind of puzzle than the average person when you fight them.

So you're thinking about different things. so both as somebody who's a potential opponent and as just a fan of the sport, it's fun to see people come in with that kind of elite combat sports experience. You know, with this format, you know, I'm curious how you're approaching it because it's a little bit different. You know, you mentioned you want to go out there and get finishes because one, you get the points and two, you turn around relatively quick and you know sort of where you're going, multiple fights potentially in one night and you want to obviously not get injured. You want to try to get back.

Yeah. There's relatively unscathed as possible. And in terms of like the roster and the opponents, like you want to focus on who you're fighting. But with someone like Kayla, you know, the favorite in a lot of people's eyes, do you sort of keep her in your mind in your preparation? Like are you already starting to look at her because she is the favorite and if you go on this nice run at some point, you're going to fight her.

yeah so not a little but not overly partly it's me right like everybody knows i'd like to stand if i have my choice of probably they're trying to take it to the ground in most cases with me um so that's just something that i am aware of in my training all the time uh but i do always pay attention to fighters so you know whoever it is and if somebody is likely to make it to the final that like I had mentioned there, a few women. I kind of have my eye on there. So it's always the fight that's right in front of me is the one I'm thinking about. I'm not trying to get distracted by something that's down the line.

But, you know, of course, like the women that I anticipate making it into the later rounds are all on my mind. You know who you're fighting, right? You don't have to tell us because that hasn't been announced, but you know who you're fighting at least. They haven't told you yet? All right. keeps a little mystery alive, which is nice. So how do you see this all going down in 2021 with this season? Because obviously the goal is to win the division and get that million bucks.

That's awesome. But outside of that, what are you hoping to accomplish with this new chapter in your career? Oh, man. You know, I just want to go out and perform well and have fun fights and try out some of the stuff that I think is going to work to defeat some of these ladies. and just continue to grow my gym and really, you know, after the season, give a lot more energy to our fighters

because we have a pretty big stable at our place. So, you know, I think the pandemic in a lot of ways has made a year of transitions for people and we're no different. You know, a lot of people are taking us time to switch a job or even just have decided like, uh, different things are a priority to me than I realized before, right? And so to just like continue to grow that, try to make more of a lot of people in Minnesota, which is where I'm from, end up having to leave when they're getting ready for MMA fights to get the proper attention.

It's something that I was doing earlier in my career. So when I continue to try to develop an environment where you can stay here and do elite MMA elite Muay Thai with our friends over at M-theory, martial arts, such as a jiu-tze gym, they've been, really great in helping us MMA fighters prepare and whatnot. So that's that's kind of the goal, you know, to keep the ball rolling and, you know, hopefully potentially start getting back into some matchmaking stuff at some point as well, when the world comes down.

There you go. A few last things if I could. First, I know you had some things to say when it came to one Stephen A. Smith and his preferences in terms of what he personally likes in his combat sports viewing. And obviously that whole thing got like a lot of response, especially from, you know, high level women in the sport, you obviously being included. And some people are like, well, you know, don't give him the attention. He knows what he's doing. But, you know, this sport like we talked about, especially women's MMA,

it has come a long, long way since 2007 when you made your professional debut. So, you know, what are your thoughts on his comments now that nearly a month has gone by? you know i think but mostly the reason that that should be addressed is not because he said it because i agree like i think he just says things to get attention um and he's not one that shied away from controversial comments but it's the number of people echoing that sentiment you know anytime like that's kind of the point of arguing something online i think is like for everybody that comments there there might be a hundred more that feel that way and won't say it um and i think people should should examine why they are so bothered by female fighters, but they're not actually bothered by, you know, and he even flatly said that he thought it promoted violence against women.

And not making the distinction between a professional sport with two consenting adults versus abuse is kind of ridiculous in the first place. But second, you know, why does that bother you? but all these other outlets, I guess, that are plainly supporting abusers don't, but it doesn't bother you. Well, your problem isn't with violence against women. It's for something else. And, you know, he needs to maybe, he and other people that feel that way maybe should look a little deeper and figure out why.

Is it a little frustrating hearing people talk like that? You know, I mean, since you've been doing this for so long, like, I know going up, like, through the ranks and stuff, you probably heard that a lot. But, you know, now it's a different time. Like the fight of the year last year was a women's fight. It was Yonna and Zhang Wei. The fight was ridiculous. It was one of the greatest fights of all time.

Like, I feel like we've come a long way since then. Is it a little frustrating still hearing these things? No, because I, it's not, it's, I mean, I don't even think that that sentiment is related to time as much as it's related to insecurity. You know, the kind of guys. that cling to that are the kind of guys that, you know, want to make sure somebody's below them for whatever reason and status. So it's not necessarily, uh, offensive, but it is an annoying behavior.

I would agree with that. Have you seen, I got to ask you about this. Have you seen the, uh, the viral video of the bathroom fight in Oklahoma? Yeah. The two guys. What did you think of that video in the fight? Because that, we got like lawsuits pending and all this crazy.

using this? Like, what did you think of that whole situation? Well, first of all, I think the takeaway we can all understand is that you do not fight somebody with cauliflower here. Poor choice, just in general. But also, like, you know how normally when you see videos like this, the person will kind of get their due and then the bystanders will be like, hey, man, lighten up. Like, somebody will say something. I think the lack of bystander response when these guys were getting

pummel probably tells us a lot about what's going on before the camera was rolling. Because nobody, nobody seemed to want to help out in that situation at all. And from what I understand, nobody called the police either. Or if they did it was much later. So it definitely, you know, of course, we might learn something else about it, but it definitely seemed like they were trying to kind of bully some smaller guys. And you just never know what you're dealing with. You can't do that out in public, you know.

especially in a bathroom. Like, what a disgusting place to have a fight with all those people. Yeah. You had like one guy in the video who like just walks by and he like taps the dude on top. He's like, hey, hey. And then he's like, all right, I'm out of here. That's it. You guys keep fighting.

It's bananas. So hopefully we do learn more about that. But last thing, I do want to mention this. And you can respond how you'd like. But I know it's kind of a crazy topic. now, but you have shared the cage with probably the first big star in women's MMA, Gina Carrano. She's gone on to some big things in her life outside of fighting on the big screen.

She, of course, has been extremely outspoken on social media. And now she's no longer with the Mandalorian. She's all over the news. S&L is making spoofs about her. What have you made of this whole thing? You know, my sense of Gina is that she's somebody who doesn't appreciate being told what to do. So, you know, I think that that might have something to do with it, you know.

And I think maybe her independence is more important to her than certain aspects of her career. Caitlin Young is a very interesting wild card in all this at 155 pounds this season. Lots of experience. Things are really coming together for her right now in MMA. a lot in her time away from the sport in her moitai and kickboxing days traveling internationally going to Thailand and she's back in m m ms she's finding success and a good move for all involved getting her on the pfl roster this season so great to catch up with her after all these years she's going to be somebody to watch in this in this season i think as we get ready to get to our final

interview and wrap this week's program up in a matter of moments. Very, very, just a silly, busy week here at M-Mayfiting.com with UFC 259 upon us. I'm just going to try to like rattle this off my brain here. We'll have the in-person media day on Wednesday and that will be streaming live on our YouTube channel as the great Jose Youngs will be in Las Vegas. We'll have a special A-side live chat on Wednesday as well before that all happens. Thursday we'll have the press conference with all six fighters in the title bouts, including the main eventors, Jan Belhovic, and Israel Adasanya,

Leon Edwards and Bilal Muhammad. They'll be headlining next weekend's UFC Vegas 21 card. They will also be on the dais with UFC President Dana White answering the media's questions. That'll be a lot of fun. We'll be streaming that live, right? Not long after that, we'll have another live between the links to react to the press conference, big news in the sport, et cetera. and then on Friday we'll be live for the way-ins,

weigh-ins show, we'll have the stair downs. There's going to be a talent media day, I'm told. Preview show, et cetera. Just going to be bananas. And then, of course, Saturday, we'll have all your fight night coverage. We'll have our pre-fight show 30 minutes before the event. Maybe we'll roll a few minutes before that.

We do have a special guest lined up for the pre-fight Q&A. So join us, get your questions ready. We're turning it over to you right before the first fight kicks off. Plus, we'll have post-fight interviews, press conferences, post-fight show. Sundays on to the next one. I will probably not have a voice when this is all said and done. So we'll see what happens. We'll have some fun surprises along the way as well.

So basically what I'm telling you to do is strap in because, as you have seen over the last year, pandemic or not, nobody does pay-per-view fight week like we do here at mbathiting.com. So lots of content coming your way. We're going to get to the refurbished, new and improved Max Holloway interview in a moment. but before that happens, thank you very much. Big shout out to all of you watching the program each and every week. Shout out to the legend, Casey Lydin on the production.

Big shout out to Jose and Alex Savis on the graphics, and just the whole squad of them fighting for their help as always, saving the day, bailing us out, making my job a lot easier. So with that said, have a heck of a fight week, everybody. If you missed it, here is my chat with one of the all-time greats, Max Blessed Holloway. All right, let us welcome a man who, had an amazing start to 2021. In fact, there are many people out there who believe that this victory

was one of the all-time great performances in UFC history when he defeated Calvin Cater via unanimous decision last month, first UFC main event on ABC. What a phenomenal effort from the former UFC featherweight champion of the world. Max blessed Holloway, who is kind enough to join us right now. Max, how are you, man? I'm doing good, boss. How are you doing, Michael? I'm doing great. So there's one thing I wanted to ask you right off the bat, Max. And first off, congratulations on the win. We'll get into the fight more in a moment. But I'm kind of in awe by the way you can sort of separate yourself from Max Holloway, the fighter, and go do like Max Holloway, the guy and do it so quickly because you go out there

and you have this incredible performance. And normally fighters sort of enjoy the limelight after a win like that. They celebrate it. You do your duties. You have your press conference after the fight. And it's right back to Max the dad, the fiance, the gamer, the guy. And you do it so effortlessly when a lot of fighters aren't able to do that. So how have you, like, is this something you've always been able to do?

Or is this something you learned to do along the way? I mean, you, I've been fighting this is 16. I've been to the UFC since I was 20. You know, I mean, I'm nine-year, nine-year vet. I'm old as shit, man. I mean, I'm scrimping up on me. But now, I'll jokes aside. You got to learn how to separate it, you know?

You got to learn how to separate. Life is about balance, you know. yin and yang i don't know if you believe in that kind of stuff but life is about balance you know you got to be balanced if you if you put in too much one thing on one side then start stuff start getting unbalanced if you start doing here and then start getting unbalanced he's like he just want life is balanced you know so i try to keep my life as balance as it can be i know i got to be a father i know i need to be a fiance especially since my fiance is always there for me whenever i need her you know and and rush you know rush really uh needs a dad

I know how it is growing up without a dad. And then I love video games, like you said, you know, Facebook, Facebook gaming baby. Max Holloway official come through and show some love, bro. Come, come support. We play Call it all the time. So you might be able to even play a game with me and rest sometimes. So who knows. Yeah, the thumbnail for that page is amazing with your face on the train and everything.

It's phenomenal, Max. Excellent branding. How much do you think that's being able to separate that has helped you in your career? because like even on this side with the media, it's hard to separate from it, right? Like you get off duty, but you don't want to have that like that fomo. You don't want to miss out on any of the big news.

Like how much do you feel that's helped you being able to separate the two worlds in your fighting career? I mean, helping that a lot. I mean, like I don't, yeah, I don't have that for more. I guess with big news or big things happening. I don't even watch fights, to be honest. But even when the news, you know, sometimes I'm streaming or I'm texting or somebody texting me,

you heard this. I was like, oh but that's cool you know it is you know you got you got learn out of separated for sure though but uh i just think it comes to time you know it comes to time it comes to a point where i'm a point on my career where i just want to focus on me i want to focus on what i can do i really really want to get my best to my career and then also to myself and then have a great life after after fighting's all said and done you know so let's let's talk about the fight and sort of the buildup itself because you know you probably heard this

and you talked about it a little bit on the bill to the fight, there's this narrative heading into it that, well, Max isn't over that second fight with Alexander Volcanowski because of the judges. He might be looking past Calvin Cater, which when I spoke with Calvin ahead of the fight, he thought that might be a factor heading into January 16. Turns out that couldn't have been further from the truth.

Were you at least seeing and hearing that stuff on the build to the fight? You see and hear stuff, you know, I see here all kind of stuff. I heard a bunch of people calling me out in the fight because of the fights. I heard people telling me I was done. and that. I mean, it didn't bother me.

I know where my focus is. I know what I did. I know all the work I did. I know all the sacrifices I had to do. The only people I had to go out there and show what I did for was the people who sacrificed for me was my team, my family, you know, my fiancee, my son, my coaches. I took away, I took away time away from their family. So that's the only people that I really wanted to show what was all about, you know.

At the end of the day, it's just, it's just another. a fight to me. I don't care. I don't care what it is. It's just another fight to me. I was ready to go. People talk, talk, talk, drama sales. So let them be drama. All the drama in the world, man. They stay tuned in come, it came January 16. You say it was just another fight. And, you know, people are always appreciative of you because you're always ready to fight. That's one of things people really love about you. But I don't know if it's just me, Max, but like all fight week, that just seems like there was something a little bit different about you, that like there was little more intensity to you. Like that's how I saw it. Like is, is that accurate at all?

Or am I just like reading too much into how it looked on camera? I mean, I don't know. Maybe it could have been. I mean, it was just an intense week, I guess. I guess so because the ABC too, you know, I guess it was because it was. It was a big history, you know. And it was the first, first fight of the year in three weeks, you know. And in three weeks of there was no U.S.s. And then we got to open up the year. And I got to be the first main event on ABC. So I think so. And you wasn't wrong in that sense. And yeah, you know, it was just big stuff. You know, it was just, I got to, man, I get to edge my name in the history books along legends of Muhammad Ali, you know, Sugar Ray Leonard, all these guys that got to fight on

ABC. And now my name is up there with them and nobody can ever take it away. So it's, it was amazing. Yeah. I mean, you put on a ferocious pace with Calvin right away in the first round. He couldn't really get going, but I'm sure knowing Calvin heading in, that's sort of typical for him. He's been a little bit of a slow starter. And for him, like second round is when business starts to pick up for him, but you turn it up to another level in that second round. You had him in big trouble. Was that kind of part of the plan, like put a little bit of a pace on him early? And then in that second round, when he normally gets cooking, we'll turn up our volume. Man, I don't know how to explain it. You know, there's just some nights. I don't know if you

watch other sports, but, you know, there's just some nights in other sports and, but, you know, or anybody badly just says like, oh man, I'm not, I couldn't, I couldn't miss a shot. You know, I mean, I couldn't. Every time I connected, I know it was going over over the fence or I knew I was going to always get on base. Like, it's just, that's just how I felt, you know? That night I felt like I was just in the zone, man. You could have put anybody in front of me.

I would have, I would have did that performance, you know, as long as however tough they was, you know, shout out to cater. He was a dude was Boston Strong, man, tough as it can be, you know. It takes two to tango. I was only able to do what I did because he was standing across with me that night. You know, so at the end of day, I just, I was just, I was just in a zone, man. I just felt good. I feel free.

I felt, I felt like I was having the time of my life in there. Yeah, the fourth round is the one that really sticks out. It's kind of like the point of contention coming out of the fight because according to UFC stats, you landed 141 of 191 significant strikes, which is just absurd to even say out loud to you. you, but, you know, Calvin, Calvin's in a bad, bad way. He makes it out of the round. And you talked about how, you know, sometimes in sports, the hoop, so to speak, is just so big, you can't miss. What was that, like, fourth round like for you? Because fighters talk about how they sort of have this out-of-body experiences at different points of fights. Was that how that was for you,

especially in that fourth round? Yeah, for sure. You know, I felt like that from the first round. And then the four-round, actually, I was going into the four-round coming out to the fit or going from the turtle after the four, right? And we was coming to the fit. And I saw him jumping around. I was like, I definitely told myself, like, right, he's not walking. He's not coming back out for this round. It is done.

And he came out. He's hopping around, jumping around. I was like, oh, man. I was like, oh, we're waiting for a fight-fight. So I was excited. You know, I was excited. I felt good. Like I said, hats off to cater, man.

I really showed why he's one of the top guys in the division. I spoke with Calvin's coach Tyson Chardier, and it was a few weeks ago, and him and Herb Dean got a lot of flack because they didn't stop the fight in the fourth round. And Tyson said in essence, like, we were so close, but every time we got to that place when we're about to throw in the towel, Calvin would give us a reason not to throw it because he would fight back and he would land a big shot. So in that fourth round, as you're landing all those shots,

Are you, like, surprise Herb Dean's not stepping in or that the towel wasn't thrown? I mean, I don't know. You know, I'm a fighter fighter. I'm a fighter, man. You know, I'm not in there. I'm not in there focusing on Herb Dean. I'm not in there focusing on the coach. I'm in there doing my thing, you know, doing my job.

If I start focusing on what the coach is doing or what Herb Dean's doing, I'm going to lose control, you know. My objective was to go in there and fight and I was fighting, you know, and all that other stuff, I have no say on it. You know, he's just tough, you know. Like he said, like I can see what Tyson coming from. I can see where Herb Dean comes from and think in certain ways. But all I got to do is focus on fighting, you know. I got to go out there and do my thing.

And that's all I was focused on. I was focusing on Calvin. And kind of like a, I don't know if vicious is the right word, but the fifth round happens. It continues on, like you said, Calvin was bouncing up and down, ready to go. And it's sort of told a vivid story in the fight. It's almost like it was meant to be to. have that fifth round because it's the seconds we're wearing down. You know, you're getting your

moment. You're shouting, oh, I'm a freshman. I'm the best boxer in the UFC. You're talking to DC and the commentary team. And then you land a punch while you're talking to them. Like, it was just so wild to watch, man. You're slipping punches. Like that fifth round, like those closing moments of the fight was just so crazy to watch. Like what is, I know it's hard to think in the Octagon, but like in that fifth round while this has happened. Like, what is going on in your mind? I was just thinking, you know, when we went to that at that corner, I hit him in the box. And then I heard, I think it was Dan Hardy. Dan Hardy was saying something about numbers, like, like strikes or whatever that I landed.

And I told him, count it up. Like I was like, I let him know it wasn't done. And then he caught me with a jab. And then that's why I went. And then that's when I deflected and I talked to him. And I thought, my best boxing UFC, whatever. That's when that all that happened. And it's just, man, it's just that moment, you know?

Like you said, like, thank God. Thankfully, a lot of stuff didn't happen leading to that moment because if it all was tough, then we would not have that a little minute of the last five round. That was just crazy and also, you know, I'm super grateful for that. How would you describe your relationship with Daniel Cormier? It's like to me, it's kind of like a big brother, little brother thing, but you guys are super tight and you talk a little jabs back and forth at each other. D.C. likes to poke and proddy a little bit, but in like a kind-hearted, spirited way.

Like, how would you describe that relationship with Daniel? I would say, I'd say definitely like a big brother. You know what I mean? Like a big brother, little brother kind of stuff, you know? I just going to keep poking the bear. And just so happens, he does look like a bear, so I'll just keep poking him. I mean, like I said, I got nothing but love for the guy,

but number one pound-fabound fighter in the world should be willing to fight anybody, you know. And that's why I call him all, you know. And I like to believe I'm the dad's man on the planet, and he likes to think so he's that. I don't know where he's coming up with that. Just because you sneeze and you throw you back doesn't make you a dad's man on planet.

But whatever, we're going on next time. but, you know, DC know it is, and he's very determined. I heard he's trying to get back in shape. I don't know what for, but you might see DC and Max how they actually be official and everybody, and we can thank the fans for it because they're on Team Max, baby, hashtag Dasman on the Planet, that's cool. Must see TV right there.

I mean, listen, when you have a performance like you had last month, it opens up a lot of doors, you know, get DC's attention. Of course, you know, we get the big title fight coming up on March 27th with Volcanovsky and Ortega. you deserve the winner of that fight. In my opinion, you got Conner's attention with that performance. You got everyone's attention if we're being honest.

But now that like a month or so has gone by, where's your mind sort of taking you with the next step, you know, since that fight, since that performance, because now you've had some time to let it kind of soak in your brain, kind of chill out a little bit. Where's your mind taking you as far as the next step in your fighting career goes? I always said it happens.

You know, you said perfect. You know, Dana White said what he said after our fight. You know, and, you know, with the Alex and Ortega fight coming up, everybody know that I'm the cloud, you know what I mean? I'm the cloud over that fight, you know, I'm the cloud over the division. So, you know, let them two guys focus on each other and focus what they got to do and then let the rain continue, you know, after it. So I can't wait. I'm just excited, you know, I'm just chilling out, hanging out, surfing with my fiancee with my son. He's getting to surfing and playing a bunch of loaded video games, you know, so.

Like I said, we're on Facebook Gaming now come through and come hang with the boy. What's better? I mean, you've experienced both at this point. What's better? Being the champion or being the cloud? I mean, I don't know. And I mean, I would say being a father. I mean, I think being a father is the best thing ever.

Being a dadist man on the planet, that's the best thing ever. having a fiance to spend time having stuff to be with them it is what it is you know like I said you guys heard me talk about it multiple times you know you're not a champion because of belt because you have a belt you know I carry myself

a champion for the belt I got five of them at home I mean I got a little and one of those little Palm Ranger looking things that goes on them you know so at the end day I ain't mad you know I love I just I love being a dad man but that's better that's the best thing

being a father. Yeah, I'm with you on that one. I have a seven-year-old, almost an eight-year-old, and people tell me, like, each year is a little tougher, you know what I mean? They say, like, some twos and the threes, and then, like, oh, it'll get better, but, you know, doesn't really.

It's never going to get better anymore. Why's when these little punks get 14, the 15 to 16 when they got a little bit of attitude, you know, and then they start dating and shit. I'm like, oh, man, what is it's going to be like 10 years from now? It's going to be so different, man. Exactly. Do you have a theory, like, or a thought on how that title fight plays out?

Do you think, I mean, you fought both guys, so you have a better kind of knowledge on it than I would. I have no idea. I don't know, man. You know, style makes fights, like they said, and whoever shows up, shows up. So, who see it happens, you know? It's an interesting fight for sure. So we see what way it goes and, you know, made the best man win. Do you feel like in a weird way this late in your career that Volcanowski is kind of like,

your career rival now he's like your arch nemesis outside of daniel cormier of course because i mean i feel like you guys are going to be forever attached together at this point you've had the two fights the second fight was so controversial do you know what i mean i mean no i don't i don't look at that at anything with anyone you know like this is just what i do i fight i fight whoever it is you know i don't make these narratives this and that but somebody wants to they can go ahead you know like i said drama sales so if somebody wants to bring the drama I ain't gonna be you know but if you want to be about a big drama show then go and do it you know go and say that but at the end of day I got no mine you know I mean I just focus on me I focus what I control I focus on what I can do how I can

make myself a better person in and out the octagon and um we're going from there you just want to be challenged you want to fight the best guy as possible at this point doesn't matter name you just want the very best guy to stand across from the octagon with you at this point 100% you know I want to be You know, when all this money and this fame and whatever it is, this interviewers, when they don't want to do me anymore, when it's all saying, Don, when I leave this earth, whatever happens, I want my name to be amongst the greats, you know, in this sports and all the sports, not only in this division.

So whatever that takes, you know, let me know. And I'm willing to take that role. I know you said you don't watch a lot of fights, but did you watch the fight between Dustin Porreier and Connemer Greger? No, but I saw, you know, I saw it happen. You know, I saw clips of here and there and, uh, well, crazy. It just shows how crazy MMA sports is, right? MMA, MMA is one of the most wild sports there is.

I do, um, two last things for you let you go. I do want to talk about the gaming channel a little bit more in a moment, but I just wanted to get some clarification on something because the last couple of fights, this one with Calvin especially, you said he didn't spar. And by that, do you mean, like, that you just didn't hard spar or like no sparring at all? just curious how that works because is there somebody that's like mimicking calvin in the gym in any way or is this just pure instinct and experience taking over more than anything yeah we didn't spar

we didn't hard spar like we didn't go on there and like and spar spar you know like like fight spar you know we went in there we moved around you know i mean like i saw stuff but it was for looks it was mainly for looks you know and um that's what it was for it was always about like i wasn't you don't you know i mean why why damage the motherboard before getting to to the main show? So that's just the way we look at. You know, I didn't really hard spar, not at all. Like we moved. I saw movements.

We mimic Calvin for sure, you know, just to give me an idea. But that's about it. Yeah, I think it's so smart. Now we're seeing stories of, you know, past fighters like Spencer Fisher. That story is just crazy seeing like the long-term effects of sparring and the wars he had in the octagon and out of the octagon. It's a scary thing, man.

When did you sort of realize, like, I don't need this anymore. Like, I fought long enough. Like, I don't need to do the hard sparring thing anymore. I mean, I kind of know of it, you know. It's just like anybody else. You know, I'm not telling people to stop sparring. You know, there comes to age where you can stop, you know. And I think so most UFC guys, we can.

You know, we went to it a lot. If you got to USC, it means you've been to some fights and you're here by reason. So you had to put in the work to get here. Nobody gets here by chance or luck, really, you know. And once you get that point, then it's smarter, you know, it's better, you know, and this is a new way to do it. So at the end day, it just took it. It was just time, you know, I had so much time. I had so much time where I did certain things where it's like, oh, this happened to me. So I had to fight through this in amateur fights, you know what I mean, and even in sparring.

And it was just, you look at other sports, you know, like the NFL, you know, I mean, or football. when you're playing like little school leagues or when you're playing park leagues you're hitting you play high school leagues you're hitting you know what I mean you go to college depending on what college you go they actually stop hitting they hit during the spring and then during the whole season they're not hitting you go to the NFL they don't put on no pads to hit each other you know it's just why why are these guys doing that why don't we try and try and do that and that's what we did you know, I got a son. Like I said, I want to be a great dad.

I want to be a great grandfather. And if I lived that long, I want to be a great, great grandfather. You know what I mean? So at the end of the day, that's what I think. I'm just thinking long-term goals, long-term life. And I want to put no extra stress on any loved ones. Well said. So let's talk about the gaming because, like I said, I do follow you on Facebook.

I see the blessed express is going live. You're hanging out, the peeps. you're playing some games. Like I said, the thumbnail absolutely rules. Talk about that. Like, do you have set times when you actually do it? Or is just like surprise and playing games? Like, is it just on Facebook or is there other outlets they can find it as well?

I'm just on Facebook. All my videos that we post up is on Facebook to come on through and give them live Max Holloway official. Like I said, I go on almost every day around. It's like a time around 2 to 3 p.m. Hawaii state time. and then sometimes I jump in the morning around 8 o'clock Hawaii State Time certain days when I'm not training. But most of the time I'm back on around 2 to 4 p.m. Hawaii State time. So if you guys ever want to come through Monday to Friday to Sunday

and then the weekdays, Saturday or Sunday, if you're a supporter, I play with supporters. So that's what I do is it's so much good fun, man. It's just a way to get away from everything and just I'm a big call of duty guy. So, you know, I love running through Vardance, so it's super fun. So it's mostly call of duty? It's always called duty. I don't play nothing else. I mean, I'm waiting for this game called Animal Crossing, not Animal Crossing, but

a party animals to come out. It's like a little fighting game of like cartoon dogs and stuff, animated dogs and crocodiles. It's so cool, but they're fighting in it. So that's what I'm waiting for. There you go. What do you think of the Raptors this year? They turn around

They turn around The Rapt is turn around Baby So I can't wait You know You can't be just jumping A ship Like I know

It's having a tough opening Friend Flan V really waking up Man He'd be hitting some shots lately for us So I think I think it's exciting times

I mean There's a former championship team You know And they just have some of the guys That won the championship on the team So They know what it takes

You know They know what it takes And I think So they're putting it together You know And then And it always helps With my Hawaiian

My Hawaiian buddy Bobby Webbby website over there at the GM. He just signed an extension. So shout out to him. And you know what it takes, too, to get the guys. So hopefully we can get some more pieces and be back in title contention.

Yeah, it's like our fortunes of reverse. I'm here in Massachusetts, so I'm obviously a Celtics fan. We started off hot and now we're starting to, you know, starting to crumble a little bit. Did you guys have a tough on this day? He's lost out like red, right? Right.

Rural. 23 point lead heading into the fourth quarter. Yeah, and they came back, yeah? Just like Lakers. You see Lakers? Lakers is up 17. 17 and then Russell Resbrook them came back in overtime

in the floor that's crazy well I mean if it happens to them and I guess it's okay that it happens to the Celtics because that team is just really hard to beat man I don't know who's gonna beat them it's just I I miss the NBA of like the

late 80s early 90s I'm a little bit older than you but I remember like Bird and the Pistons and you know earn every shot like if you there were no easy layups you got clothes lined if you got in too close yeah now you get you get foul so you can't do it

So we sure happens. I don't know. I think I think nets. I think nets and maybe Lakers do it together, man. I don't know. That would be that would be crazy. But shit happens. I hope Lakers go back to back though. I want to see him go back to back just for Braun. Yeah, I hear you, man. Max, I have to say like I said off here, bucketless conversation for me. I could have done this for another hour easily. But congratulations on the incredible performance. Cannot wait to see what's next in store for you. Really tremendous stuff in and out of the cage, my man. Congratulations on the engagement as well. and wishing you nothing but the best man.

Enjoy the gaming and make sure you tune in, everybody. The Bless Express on Facebook. That's cool. Thank you, brother. Later. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.