MMA Fighting - What the Heck: Episode 50 | Kevin Holland, Frank Mir, Aspen Ladd, Trevin Giles & Grant Dawson

Episode Date: March 16, 2021

This week on What the Heck, MMA Fighting's Mike Heck speaks with Kevin Holland (4:32) to preview his UFC Vegas 22 headliner with Derek Brunson this Saturday, talks Israel Adesanya's unanimous decision loss to Jan Blachowicz at UFC 259, the state of the middleweight division, and more. Aspen Ladd (28:30) provides an update on her recovery from a torn ACL and MCL, when she is targeting a return to action, discusses Julianna Pena calling for a title shot and why she feels a fight between her and Pena makes the most sense, thoughts about moving up to 145 to challenge Amanda Nunes, and more. Trevin Giles (47:42) talks his upcoming fight with Roman Dolidze at UFC Vegas 22 this Saturday, short notice opponent change, and how fans reacted to heart issues knocking him out of his fight with Kevin Holland. Grant Dawson (1:11:14) previews his lightweight debut this Saturday at UFC Vegas 22 against Leonardo Santos. Finally, Frank Mir discusses (1:31:53) his boxing debut April 17 against Antonio Tarver and what advice he has for Ben Askren ahead of his boxing bout with Jake Paul in the main event of that card. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. What the Heck with Mike Heck on MMAfighting.com. Now here is your host, Mike Heck. What the heck? Well, hello there, everybody, and welcome to a brand new edition, the 50th episode of What the Heck, right here on MMAfighting.com. I am Mike Heck. Thank you for checking out the show this week.

And it's going to be a good one, my friends. We have a loaded up guest list. Three of the guests will be fighting this Saturday. Saturday at UFC Vegas 22, and one of those guests will be in the main event. So a lot to get to this week. Of course, we're coming off UFC Vegas 21, unfortunate ending to that card with the eye poke from Leon Edwards to Blah Muhammad. That led to a no contest. It's just been a wild couple of weeks for DQs and no contest.

We got two of them on Saturday. Eric Anders versus Darren Stewart also ended in an illegal knee in a no contest. I'm not going to mince words. It sucked. The main event especially, it sucked for everybody. And we're going to see what's going to happen from there. Bala wants to run it back. Leon wants the title shot.

And as we found out on Monday night, he's not going to get it. Because Kamar Usman versus Jorge Mazadal 2 is going to go down April 24th at UFC 261 in Jacksonville, Florida, with the full house of fans. That card is ridiculous. It's so ridiculous. I got the strawweight title and the women's flyway titles on the line as well.

Just crazy. Like, we are combat sports fans. We are MMA fans and we're getting these cards. Like, we get to sit down and watch all of these title fights in the next few months. It's absolutely bananas. But that's in April. Of course, we got the pay-per-view coming up on March 27th, UFC 260. Two title fights.

Got the heavyweight titles, Stepe Amiichich versus Francis Inganu. We got Alex Zander Volkovsky defending against Brian Ortega. But this weekend, The middleweight division will be in the spotlight. Derek Brunson takes on Kevin Holland in the main event of UFC Vegas 22. It's a big one at a very interesting division at 185 pounds. We'll be discussing that card quite a bit this week and much more. You know what?

Let's just get right into it. We get so much to talk about. So here's the lineup for what the heck this week. Rapping us up, the former UFC heavyweight champion, Frank Meir. He's going to be entering the squared circle on April 17th in a boxing match against Antonio Tarva. that same card is ben askaskin versus jake paul we're going to see frank meir versus antonio tarver wild man absolutely wild excited to chat with frank meir a little bit later on grant dawson returns to action in a brand new weight class this saturday at ufc vegas 22 is going to take

on leonauter santos and his lightweight debut very exciting prospect out of glory m m mary with head coach james krauss i've been interviewing grant dawson since he was 19 years old to make his 155 pound debut in the Octagon. The Prophet joins us this week ahead of that fun scrap. Also competing this Saturday, Trevin Giles makes his what the heck debut. He takes on Roman DeLideze. Roman DeLizze debuting in a new eight class. He goes down from 205 to the middleweight division. There we go. That's the word I was looking for. He's going to do so in a little over a week's notice. Trevin has been through a lot over the last 18 months, as you guys probably know. He's coming off a knocko win over Bevin Lewis in November.

Great stuff from Trevin Giles. You'll hear that later on on the program. With the women's Bannemweight Division being in a lot of conversations these days, especially after Amanda Nunes defeated Megan Anderson. We don't know what's going on with 145. We've heard Giuliana Pena call her shot for the chance to fight Amanda Nunes at 135 pounds with a Bannemweight title. Well, Aspen Ladd, who hasn't competed since December of 2019,

She's been recovering from knee surgery. She's going to join us to give her response to that chatter. Which, spoiler alert, she does not agree with one Giuliana Pena. 25 minutes from right now, you'll find out why Aspen Ladd feels that way. That conversation is on deck. But first, it is a Kevin Holland fight week. And as it has been on what the heck, since this show started 50 episodes ago, when it's a Kevin Holland fight week, he is on this program.

This week is no different. Here he is. All right. Well, the tradition continues here on the program, as we have seen over the last several months. When this man has a fight, we are blessed enough to carve out some time with this gentleman, of course, a big one. Coming up this Saturday headlines UFC Vegas 22 against Derek Brunson. Happy to be joined once again by the Trailblazer himself, Kevin Holland. How are you, man?

I'm doing pretty good. How about yourself? Doing great. So you're getting ready to travel to Vegas tomorrow as we record. You've had a lot of time to think about this. This went after a crazy 2020 where you went 5-0. What has it been like having a super extended training camp for the first time in a little bit? Man, long.

You know, it's been a process, you know, that I can say for sure. Camps are different, you know. It's like it's nothing like getting up off the couch and going out there and getting it versus camps. You kind of, you got to really put it all in there and, you know, make it all happen every day all day. So that was fun, you know, to say the most. I know the last time we spoke before the Jocker A fight, you said that you actually preferred that new date and that new opponent over the scheduled main event with Jack Hermanson because you wanted to still be able to have the opportunity to jump into short notice opportunities like you had been doing, you know, for the last several fights. And once you became quote unquote a main eventer, those chances may not be there as much. So this is a main event.

I'll be against a guy you've wanted to fight for quite some time. Did you sort of have to accept the fact that you are a main event guy and that things are probably going to change, especially with how you ended that fight with Jokere? Yeah. I mean, you know, you kind of have to accept that that's what's going to happen with the game, you know, but, you know, still would like to ultimately take last second fights. You know, it's like I love last second fights. I love stepping in there any point in time and getting in and then do a bang somebody.

up but at the same time you know uh i make enough money now for this is like a professional career and i'm a professional athlete so i have to act like a professional athlete so you know uh it was fun you know doing things the way i've been doing things but you know now we're going to do things the professional way and still take last second fights if they pop up now i mean it's as you say that like now that you've had a few months to sort of digest the year that you had like the awards the nominations being put in this upper echelon category in the sport. Like what did 2020 mean to you? Not just in terms of the money that you're talking about,

which you made a lot of, but just like overall growth, experience, lessons learned, et cetera. Like, what's your biggest takeaway from 2020? I'd have to say,

you know, the overall growth. I don't have to deal with things in 2020. You know what I mean? In a different way. You know, I learned that, you know,

I can deal with things in a different way. overalls just a bigger, better man now than I ever once was before. And that, you know, is awesome. Other than that, 2020 was just another year to go out there and to fight as much as I could. And I was thankful that they allowed me to fight as much as I could. You know, it's like, I'm hoping to do the same thing again this year. But like you said, main event now, bigger fights, you know, names and stuff like that. You know, you got to promote the fights.

You got to do et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So I won't be able to fight as much as I used to. But, you know, taking out of last year, your boy, he was the man. You know what I mean? You definitely were the man. Before we talk about Saturday, I did want to get your take on what we saw a little over a week ago. We saw the middleweight champion Israel out of Sonia jump up to 205. You loved the gusto in him doing that.

But he was on the wrong end of a unanimous decision to Jan Bojovich. He's going to return back to 185 and do his thing there. What were your thoughts on the fight? Izzy's performance and ultimately how it all turned out. Well, you know, people were at track like he didn't do good. You know, he did pretty good. You know, he did good. You know, people think that they seen something because he got outrestled.

I felt like the man got outstruck, you know. It's like overall, you know, like he said, he dared to be great, you know, and props to him. You know, it's like he went out there and took a tough fight and did, you know, better than most guys would do. It's not like going from, you know, it's not like going from, you know, 155. I mean, like, it's not like going from 145 to 155 or it's not like going from 135 to 145. You know, it's like 185 to 205. That's a pretty big junk, you know, so he went out there, he tried it. He said he didn't put on weight.

I don't believe that. You know what I mean? It's like, if you look at the Israel Sanya, first got in the UFC to the Israel Sanya, who was fighting Paula Kostil, he'd been put on weight. So it's like maybe he didn't put on too much more for the Jan fight. Was that the downfall? No, overall. He just, you know, he wasn't, I don't fight.

He was normally easy that night. You know, it's like, and then at the same time, John went out there and fought a really, really good fight. So it's like, just know that when you fight easy, you got to fight a really good fight. You know what I mean? You have to go out there and you have to play it as smart as you can because the guy is pretty good. Like you said, you know, he's still. you know, he stepped up, he dared to be great, and that was something you appreciated right off the bat. He comes up short despite a pretty solid effort against a bigger guy. In your eyes, as a top 10

guy getting ready for a huge fight on Saturday, were you, I guess I'll say, were you happy with how it turned out because it keeps the division moving and kind of makes your road to a title shot a little bit shorter, had he had won? No, I keep teasing the idea that I'm going 170 pounds. I'm about to go fight. loseman for the belt. I don't care what they got. It's like, I'm going to have fun elsewhere. You know, it's like, nah, man, I really don't. I'm not really stressing the belt. You know, it's like I'm not really stressing anything. If he would have won and he would have stayed up there and it would have made it so there was no belt, then I guess Kev gets to fight five times. You know what I mean?

It's like six times in one year. If not, you know, he's back here and everybody's like, oh, I want to see you versus Izzy. I want to see you versus Izzy. Well, you know, a good, a good majority of the people, you know, get past Brunton, then more people will say it, then get past, you know, teal or a gas loom, somebody like that, and then more people will say it again. And it's like, eventually the time will come, you know, and it's like, I'm all about the styles.

I'm not all really about the belt. You know, a lot of people love the belt. I'm like, shit, I got plenty of jewelry. I got a lot of gold, you know what I mean? I got a nice belt buckle made from, you know, a nice company out here in Texas, you know, for Texas boy type stuff, you know? It's like, I got belts, you know,

I got a nice buckle. and so a lot of people don't have that buckle one of a kind you know what I mean so you know it is what it is you know it's like I'm not really worried if he would have stayed at 205 and won the belt there and he would have been doing the double champ thing as long as you do it as good as mandonnoons no problem you know and it's like and there has to be a challenge there you know it's like I can see him not wanting to do a rematch but now that he's coming off of a loss I think it gets the division more so moving you know I think he's back hungry again so he's going to take on all comers to prove that he can go back up there and try that again. And so all comers,

I'm one of those gubernors when I come, you know? When you, when you say teasing 170, are we like, are you just throwing it out there for, for S&Gs? Or like, are we really, because I know you talked about it before. And then it was kind of like, nah, I'm, I'm good where I'm at right now. I don't need to cut that extra weight. What are we thinking? I've got to convince my coaches. It's not, it's not convincing me. It's convincing my coaches that, you know, we could do the drop and still be strong and still feel good. And it's like, I don't cut any weight for 85. I almost get chewed out

because they feel like I'm not eating enough. And it's like, I feel them 100%. But it's like, you know, it's just, you know, it's not part of the job of 85. It's like I eat what I want to eat, do what I want to do. As long as I'm training, it is what it is. You know, for 70, I feel like it'd be a lot more discipline

and I'm ready to start being disciplined. So, you know, I think I could be more disciplined for 85 and probably be a bigger 85er. But ultimately, you know, it's whatever. I'll take, you know, it's like, I just want to fight so often as possible. So if they start playing the game with me in 85, maybe I can go over here, you know what I mean, fight a bunch of times. They come back up here, fight a bunch of times, you know, I just want to be me, bing-bang-bang,

and then be my thing, you know, that's what's all about. Everyone's, you know, everyone's talking about, like, lightweight and Walterweight right now, like being so interesting and having all these questions. But I feel like we get three big main events at 85 coming up in the next month. You mentioned Tilling Vitori, we got Whitaker and Costa. This is all happening in like a month span. Is middleweight not getting enough love right now? Because things are really interesting.

I mean, it's going to be curious to see if Paul Locustil was just off his game that night, right? Or if he just, you know, I don't know. It's like, I'm not really high off the Paulo Castile fire now. He needs to go get a dub for sure. You know, it's like, match him up with Whitaker. You know, it's like he could lose that fight. Then all of a sudden that buzz behind Paul O'Castil is kind of gone. You know, it's like never, you know, not too hyped off that guy.

You know, it's like, it's only a big fight there because Robert Whitaker's in it. It's like, it's not a big fight because Paul O'Costeel's in the fight. You know, it's like, no disrespect to Paul O'Costeel. The guy's a mean, mean-looking bodybuilder. But, you know, we're talking about fighting. And, you know, when it comes down to fighting, you know, he didn't look great at all his last fight. And they say, you're only as good as your last fight, right? So my last fight was a sparring session in the gym, and I didn't do great in the last round.

My bad, my bad. Oh, good. We lost you. There he is. Yeah. So, you know, it's like, you only as good as your last one. Paulos was the still last one. Wasn't fantastic at all.

And then I seen a shadow boxing video after that and stuff. And it's like, still no cardio, you know, still no fluid movement. And it's like, that's no big fight. Robert Whitaker weather's a little bit of a couple squeezes from the muscles and he'll beat the crap out of that guy. So it's not a big fight. But did you... That Darren Thiel, Marvin Vincol. Tori fight, now that shit's interesting, if they sell yourself.

I mean, I'm sure you're going to be watching that one very closely. Can I ask, did you see what Costa said recently about the Adasania fight and he had a little too much wine? A little too much wine. What'd you think about that? Shit, you can give me six shots of Allerhead and I'm still, I'm going to go out there and bust your head, you know what I mean? So I don't really think it matters, you know what I mean? It's like, I come from a Kung Fu place, you know what I mean? I'm like drunken monkey around here.

I don't know, man. I just, you know, those undefeated guys, you know, those guys who've never tasted a loss before and then they finally taste a loss, they just tend to cry a lot, you know. Quit bitch and go out there and do better next time. You know, it's like, you lost, oh, well, that's what it is. You know, like, if you can't handle losing after talking shit, you know, it's like, don't talk shit. You know what I mean?

It's simple, you know, it's like, I think that's what it is. I think he's more butt hurt than anything that it went the way that it went, you know, It's like, you're drunk off wine. Get the fuck out of here. Who gets drunk? What man gets drunk off wine? You know what I mean? It's like you're a full grown man here getting drunk off wine.

It's a little, a little iffy if you ask me. Fair enough. Well, now, I mean, you probably won't be drinking wine on Friday, but you're going to fight Derek Brunson on Saturday. We've been talking about Derek, you and I for quite some time now. And it finally happens in a few days in a big spot. How excited you to finally get inside the octagon with him. put your hands on this man because you've been talking about for a while. You know what, man?

My coach brought to realization that, you know, the way things went down with me and him had a conversation at the airport, the way he responded to the thing and everything like that. If this is what I wanted it to be originally, I won that battle already. So this is just full-blown another MMA fight, you know. I get a chance to go out there and dare to be great. No, man, I'll go out there. I'm happy to get it to go out there, and I'm happy just to go out there

and be inside the cage again. Ain't a party like an octagon party. You know what I mean? So I'm happy to go out there and be the life of the party this time, and that'll be a blast. So, you know, sucks I can't play video games for a week.

And, oh, shit, we got people waiting on them. You know, it sucks we can't play video games for a week, but at the end of the day, it is what it is. You know what I mean? It's like, can't do a lot of the things I like to do at the house for a week. you know after i will brunson i can do it all in a better fashion so it's okay it is what it is you know can't bring the video games with you yeah you can bring it with you but the internet over there

you know it just doesn't work the same no doesn't work the same you know it doesn't work like the at home internet you know i got plugged right on in that thing you know it's like i'm moving high speed you know it's like at the internet at the hotel i'm moving slow speed you know and i'm not trying to move slow like that. For those who follow you on social media, we see two words that have been attached to you for a while, skilled violence. Those two words seem to mean a lot to you.

So I'm curious, like, what type of display of skilled violence can we expect on Saturday? What do those two words mean to you? Because you've seen an awful lot. Yeah. So, you know, a guy I really like, you know, they came up with a company called skilled violence.

And when he dropped the name, I was like, damn, it's fine. You know what I mean? And he wanted me to be the man. So I'm like, yeah, I appreciate being the man. But skill of violence, it fits well with me. You know what I mean? I am a very, very violent individual.

You know what I mean? And it's like, try not to be, but that's just what I am. You know, and it's like at the end of the day, you know, I train day in and day out. Be a patient, calm, man. But at the end of the day, you do this, you do this. You know what I mean? And I'm just happy I learned how to do this, what you can say in a smart, skilled manner. I mean, it's like the violence I do display is usually pretty nasty and pretty nice.

You know, watch the jockey fight. You know, it's like we were doing jih Tijuana on bottom and I was still smacking and pinging and and dinging those elbows, you know what I mean? Real viciously. In which were most guys who train jih Tjitsu as much as we train jih Trabbuses, would have simply just, simply just would have, you know, tried to grapple. And it's like, that doesn't speak volumes. I think about the interviews where I talk about the.

bodies in the trunk. You know, it's like, take it how you want to take it. You know, I take it in a different manner. There you go. Metaphorically speaking, I assume. Yeah, you know, my bad. My lawyer, you know. I got you, man.

I saw the post you put on Twitter not too long ago. It was a picture of Derek Brunson with the bleach blonde hair, and I believe it said spring breakers this week be like, let's bleach our hair. So do you have, do you have a preference? on who you put the skilled violence upon natural-haired Brunson, or do you want blonde-haired Brunson on Saturday? They say blonde-haired Brunson is the best Brunson,

so I'll take Sisko. Let's go, baby. I feel like Derek is one of the more underappreciated guys in this division. I mean, he's been around for a while. He's made the move to Sanford M.M.A. He's clearly gotten better. He's won the last three fights. Shabazzian fight was pretty impressive.

What have you made of his run recently? He's dedicated, man. he's dedicated, you know, props to him, you know, he's been trying to get his stuff together for a long time since I've gotten the UFC, he's been trying to get his stuff together, you know, as far as reaching out, as far as making moves, busted moves, and he's done what he's had to do to ultimately put himself in a better spot. But let's be real here. I hate to be like this, but it's like, this is his run to a title, you know what I mean? This is his last run to a title. It's like he's putting everything and all behind this. He's like what? How old is he? 30-something

years old, 38 years old, you know, and it's like, I plan on being done with this shit at 34. You know, he's still over here scratching at this shit at 38. You know, it's like, he's searching for something that's just not going to ever get there. It's like, if he was to fight Israel, Sonia again, like, let's be real here. What's going to happen? You know, it's like, if you're representing USA, you're going to go out there and get your ass whoop and make USA look bad. Sit down, take this ass whoop and I'm about to give you and just let me go out there

and make us look good. So that's what I do. Him on the other hand, people don't even like them. You know, it's like, how long has he been in the video again? game and nobody plays with him. It's like, I didn't want to have to go there, but let's be real here. His own family and friends, they use them the first couple of days just for support, but after that they quit using the people. I don't even know. They use my character because they like the swag, they like the attitude, and they just like who I am, you know what I mean? And because it's natural

and it's true. If that's naturally true who Derek Brunson is, he should not be on camera. He's not a people person. He's not the one that people want to talk about or be around. He should just sit back, take the ass whoopin that this young man's going to give him, you know, and realized that his time has came and passed. And if he was ever going to be something, it was when he knocked out a little to Machita. You know, that was his fame at a belt. After that, it's a wrap. You're done, dog.

How does it feel you're finally in the game? I mean, it took long enough, right? Jeez, Louise. It feels pretty good. It feels pretty good. It feels pretty good. I play with my character. I don't know if my character sucks or I suck, but it's just suck.

So it is what it is. We're going to get that race. rating up, man. Good performance on Saturday. Boots up that rating a little bit. Yeah, yeah, yeah, man. You know, it'd be nice, but at the end of the day, I'm just happy to be in a video game. So if the rating sucks, at least I got there, and, you know, that's what's up. You know, at this point in time, I'm just worried about busting heads. If that builds, that builds the rating, awesome. You know, more beneficial for busting heads. You know, usually you just get free tattoos and don't get it twisted. I take full advantage of that. Well, I mean, it's wild the difference weeks make in the sport because the hangover from UFC 259 seemed like it lasted forever.

It almost like Saturday, like this past Saturday, this guy went on the radar, and then we had a main event, didn't have a completion, ends up in a no contest. So now we're ready to turn the page to the Saturday. You and you and Derek Brunson finally going to go at it. We need a main event to a completion, Kevin. How does this thing happen? Shit, DQ, I stop on his head if he keeps running his fucking mouth. Don't do that, Kevin. Come on.

We don't need any more DQs or no contests. All right. This is the way it goes. Derek Brunson tries to hump me. I sub him, right? Derek Brunson tries to hunt me. I catch him with a nice shot on the way in. He goes to sleep.

If Derek Brunson stays patient, he gets his ass whooped until he can't get his ass whoop no more. And then the fight's over. I mean, sub, crash bandit coop knockout? or simply a good display of this most retic-looking striking you've ever seen the UFC looking fucking good and that's me, baby.

Let's go. I'll be reading those little comments everybody would be putting on the post. I'm out of off-balance and unorthodox. I look. Kung-fu, baby, let's go. Yeah, so I'm down for whatever. I just want to have a good time. All I need Derek Brunson to do is to cut me open because then I get two weeks off from the gym.

And I need that. You know what I mean? It's like, we've been working hard. I'd take two weeks off. You know what I mean? Last week of March, I'm trying to take somebody's nasty-ass daughter on the best vacation of their life. So we'll see what happens. What?

What? Yeah. Someone's nasty-ass daughter on the vacation of their life. I don't know who's daughter's a big, but, you know, there's somebody out there wants their daughter to have a good time, you know, put them up for grabs. And there you are. the knight in shining armor Kevin Allen. How about that? So I mean

with these big fights coming up in April you know this is an opportunity you could slide back in there if something happened is that something that you're interested in or you're like, nah, this is a hard camp let's take a couple weeks off. Look, two weeks off means that I'm ready to go first fight of April.

It doesn't mean I'm done. You know what I mean? It just means, you know, I get to go have a little fun under the sun for a couple days. And then after I having fun underneath the sun, you know. Fly to Vegas and fight. Back to business, baby. I'm like Dennis Roberts.

You know what I mean? I can go out and party hard as hell one night and they win a championship the next night. Don't play with me. You know what I mean? Don't play with me. I'll do it. Don't tip me. You know what I mean?

I'm going to see if anybody wants to go and sip Hallerhead before we go out there and fight. Don't play with me. Oh, man. Last thing, I thought it was pretty. pretty cool to see you on the Joe Rogan experience. Biggest podcast on the planet, man. I mean, that's pretty cool to see you and Travis Luter get that shine, man. What was that experience? There's a pun for you. What was that like for you? Ah, dude, it was pretty cool. It was just cool because, you know, I was like, I, first show,

me and my mom ever watched. Like, you know what I mean? Together when I was younger, was Fear Factor. And it was when Joe Rogan was a man on there. So, you know what I mean? Just being able to be around Joe, for me was, you know, it was amazing. And that was one of the greatest things about joining the UFC was like, man, I'm about to be able to get interviewed by Joe Rogan, you know what I mean, talking about fear factor. And, you know, I was trying to hope I could convince him to do a more little show with me on there, you know what I'm talking about. He wasn't talking about it. So, oh, wow, I finished that guy. Wow, with a pistol. Oh, my God. Check me out. I'm about to die now. Don't die. Oh, I die. But I don't want a pistol, one hand on the phone, one hand on the trigger, let's go. Smoke them. Let's go.

It's my fault. It's my fault. My boy expects me to die too many times. He got $4,000 sitting over there as they can buy me back on Call of Duty. It's okay. Oh, man. You're the man, Kevin. This is why I enjoy these traditions.

Traditions is an important thing, and we get to do these every fight week. and it's amazing. Is there anything else you'd like to get off your chest before we wrap this thing up and you can go back and get your life back? Shout out to everybody who's on the shirt, especially beer roofing. I haven't been tagging you guys

and playing a video game with you as much lately because I've been tired as hell. But shout out to beer roofing. You know what I mean? Love you guys. The always animated Kevin Holland back on the show this week,

big time fight this Saturday with Derek Brunson. I am excited for it. $10.85 pounds, a lot of fun right now. excited to see where Derek Brunson goes if he beats Kevin Holland. And I think Kevin Holland makes a huge jump if he wins this fight, especially if he gets a finish. There's a lot of people thinking that he could jump the queue altogether and fight Israel out of Sonia next.

It's possible. I don't think it happens. But it definitely puts him in a great spot to maybe get another win to it the most to get there. But again, we get two big made events coming up over the next month. We'll see what happens at 185 pounds with the big one, big movement in this division. goes down this Saturday between Brunson and Kevin Holland. Let's move ahead to a fighter in the top five at 135 pounds. She's getting ready to make her return.

She's ready to make some noise. And she has heard Juliana Pena make some noise. And she doesn't quite agree with the Venezuelan vixen. In fact, she has her own idea for Giuliana Pena. Let's hear from Aspen Lad right now. All right, a lot going on in the UFC Women's Bannamweight Division right now. So I wanted to check in and get an update from the number three ranked third. are in the world as we welcome Aspen Ladd to the program. Aspen, how are you?

Hi, I'm doing really well. Thanks for having me. Absolutely. It's great to have you here. First and foremost, we haven't seen you fight since your victory over Yanukutatskaya. It was December of 2019. You had two fights books last year. One with Juliana Pena. She would drew due to an injury. Plus, the event was canceled. And then you were booked in June with Sarah McMahon. Then you injured your knee, tore your ACL and MCL. So I'm curious how the recovery is going. How you're feeling around nine or ten months into this thing? Well, technically, I had three fights book. I was supposed to fight Julianna twice, and she pulled out due to injury, and then the second

time, I don't know, and then they re-booked me as Sarah. And then we all know what happened before that fight, unfortunately. So I think I'm about like eight months post-stop right now, and I'm feeling great. I was just at the PI. Everything came back well. So we're easing back into full training. I should be good to go by July. So are you like, you say easing in?

Are you like technically cleared, but you're just kind of slow pacing, or is it still like a process to get to that point? So, yeah, I'm cleared. My knee. The joint is good. We're just easing in because everything else around it gets a little bit tweaked and pulled at this point. But the actual joint is doing great. It's just getting back into it the right way, so I don't have any more hiccups. Living where I live here in Massachusetts, there is hiking everywhere.

I'm up in the Berkshires, and I live in the mountains. So, I mean, you've been using hiking a lot. I've been seeing on Instagram and social media to aid with your rehab. How beneficial has that been for you and your furry friends as well? It's extremely beneficial. I suspect the only reason that my knee didn't blow out completely is because the density of muscle I'll have there from years and years of hiking. But just getting back into it like six weeks after surgery, for example, it was so bad.

So I couldn't do much of anything. So it was like a 40-minute mile, but now I'm back to what it was previously. And it's just a huge mental thing, mental, physical, you just feel better. Your name obviously has been coming up quite a bit in the last couple of weeks, Aspen, amongst the fans because Amanda Nunes submits Megan Anderson at UFC 259. And, you know, there's a lot of questions about whether the 145 pound division will continue on, at least at a championship level. And there's clearly more options for her at 135 right now.

Before we get into some of the big talking points and why your name has been brought up so much, what did you make of Amanda's performance against Megan and that unique submission she landed because one that's not being discussed enough and two she's just on this unbelievable run right now. Right now Amanda's on top of the world and she's amazing. She's a great fighter.

Megan went out and unfortunately she looked like she was terrified the entire time. I mean, you're already in there. You got to do it. But being that afraid, I think she got too much into her own head but I could be wrong. and Amanda is amazing, but she needs an opponent that's not going to be scared of her. I felt like the tide, you know, like on social media, you saw like Megan walk in and she had

the look on her face. And I was talking to Lor Sanko like a few days afterwards. And she said, sometimes they film those shots like two or three times. So sometimes that's frustration peeling over and not really fear. So when she came in and walked to the octagon, I was like, all right, she actually looks like she's ready to go. But that first shot that Amanda landed, it changed everything. Is that what you saw as well?

Did you feel like she was kind of out of the fight before it even began? I saw the trepidation before it began. I think she was a little bit out of it mentally before it began. But as I said, it could be wrong. Of course, one of the names that has been put at the forefront of these discussions is your good friend, Julianna Pena. She submitted Sarah McMahon in her last fight. She was scheduled to fight Holly Holme later on this year. That fight's no longer happening.

So Julianna has been very vocal about wanting this title shot with Amanda at one. 35, just feeling that she deserves this opportunity. She's a fresh matchup, et cetera. She's been doing a bunch of interviews, cutting some promos, and she really wants this fight. What have you made of her presence over the last couple of weeks and her belief that she deserves this next title shot? And she's doing what she, everything that she needs to do to get the most attention

possible for it. She's trying to get all kinds. I think I heard a rumor that she won a tough show against Amanda, but I highly doubt that will happen. So she's promoting herself in the best way that she's. can probably. But the thing is, she doesn't make the decisions Amanda does. And Amanda just fought at 45. She doesn't fight often. And if she's coming back down to 35, especially if they're going to ask the 45 division, it's going to be a long time before that fight even materializes.

And in that case, she definitely needs to be fighting me before she fights Amanda. Dana White was asked about this fight right after UFC 259. In my eyes, like, I felt like Dana thought it was an option, but it didn't seem like anything he was like jumping up and down about. He just said, yeah, we could make that fight. So, I mean, if, like you said, if we're up to you, you think the fight between you and Juliana would make the most sense. Maybe we determine a number one contender. That makes the most sense in your eyes. Absolutely. I mean, nobody really knows, well, there's some things going on with the other people in the top five and the ones that are above me and below me. So everybody's either got a dance partner, a medical problem, or is holding

out for who knows what with their contract. So it's the only fight that makes sense. And by the time I'm back, so I haven't been very both obviously because I'm recovering from a major knee surgery. So I just went to the PI. I've been rehabbing for months and I'm at the point now where I have a like a timeline of when I'll be back. And by that time, I highly doubt that fight will have materialized. And it makes no sense. It makes no sense for her to jump ahead and get the fight just because she's talking a little of trash. But you know how the game works.

I do know how the game works. And she is a fresh matchup, but just kind of looking at the rankings and the division, you got you at number three. There's Jermaine Durand and number one who has wins over Giuliana and has a win over you, but she's lost to Amanda twice. But when I talked to Jermaine after she submitted Giuliana, she said, I will put my career on the line to fight Amanda one more time. Like if I get in there, fight her for the belt and lose, I will retire right there and then. Obviously, Holly's dealing with some stuff. Arina Aldana just lost to Holly. And Yana Kutatskaya, who you beat is the only fighter.

a win streak in the top six right now. So there's a lot of moving parts right now, right? Like this has got to be kind of interesting, you sitting on the outside looking to get back watching this division try to shape up. We'll see how Yana's next fight goes because depending on that one, maybe they'll decide to match me with that victor if they don't do Pena. But who knows? Yonah's doing great.

So I think people look at her as an easy fight when they definitely shouldn't. She's on a streak right now. I'm saying that because I might have possibly had a fight booked. And that person decided to take another fight first, assuming that that person's going to be an easy fight. And she's definitely not going to be. What do you mean? I can't necessarily give the name, but there's not that many of us in the top. Like, you can probably figure it out.

Fair enough. Fair enough. Not fighting her now. All right. That makes sense. What did you think of Giuliana's performance against Sarah? I mean, Sarah's one of the best wrestlers in the division. Were you impressed with that performance, her ability to get to that position?

and get the stoppage in the third round? There's an incredible athlete, an incredible wrestler. She's one of the best in the world of what she does, but she's never translated over too well to MMA. Obviously, I was preparing to fight before I got injured. Her problem is when it starts getting tough, she tends to break. So Giuliana went out with a perfect game plan,

essentially what ours was beforehand, and she won the fight. I was not shocked by the outcome at all. I think they're both great fighters, and obviously man is wonderful what she does, but she just doesn't quite, it doesn't quite translate to MMA. What I was thinking about the other day is,

like when Giuliana was going on the media tour, I was just like, you know what piss a lot of people off and probably appeal to Amanda? If you just came back and said, you know what, my knee's good, I'll go up to 1.45 and fight Amanda for that title. Like Amanda would probably prefer that if we're being honest so she doesn't have to cut that extra weight.

That'd be some pretty cool chess moves right there. I'd prefer that. I mean, but it's not easy making 35, and I know for a man it isn't. But I heard rumors they're going to get rid of the entire 45 division. What do you know about that? I know that reports came out. Like Megan was on her Twitch channel and she said that they're getting rid of the division. Now, there is a fight coming up in May between Felicia Spencer and Danielle Wolf,

but from everything that I've been told, there is no discussion to get rid of the division as a whole. and it's going to be around as long as Amanda wants to keep defending both titles, which she does want to do at this point. So, I mean, if she has the option to defend 145 or go down to 135, something tells me she's going to prefer the former, you know? That's not even an option. I mean, if she has the problem is she's lacking contenders, but she's lacking them in both.

And the other problem is a lot of the 35 chicks, like look at the 45 division or the 45 tough show. Every single one of those women that came through, they dropped. It's like you just need legitimate fights at 45. I don't know. I would like to fight both. I always have. So if you came back and the UFC approached you saying,

listen, Amanda wants to fight at 45, why don't you hop up and fight her? I'm sure you're jumping on there, right? Absolutely. Obviously, I'd like to have the Giuliana fight first or one of the other women. But if they came out and said, hey, you want this fight? It was like, well, shit, send me back on horse.

All right. If they book Nunes and Pena next for the Bannamway title, how do you think that plays out? I think Julianna is a more legitimate contender than anybody she's fought recently. I think she has a little, it'll be the grappling that brings it in. But Amanda, her only thing that she's ever showed, in my opinion, is a little bit of lacking cardio. And when she gets to the ground, it's not really all that fast pace. So I think Juliana has a better shot. do I think she'll come out victorious? No.

But do you think her style and stuff could pose some threats? Of course. But anybody at that level can pose some threats. It's just who's going to have the better night. That's a good point. If they make that fight, I'm sure, I mean, there's options for you, obviously. We just ran down a whole bunch of them. But, I mean, I'm sure you'd love to run it back with Germain. There's arena, maybe Holly down the road whenever she's ready to come back.

what sort of sticks out to you if the pain you fight isn't there for you next? It was Raquel Pennington, so I've always wanted a fighter. I just think it would be a fun, fun fight. And so I'm still fairly young in the sport, right? Right. Before I ever made you see or I was watching these chicks fights, like, I want to fight you, you and you. So it'd be cool to get some of those like OG matches, you know.

Kind of go in there and get those stripes, right? against get some of those names on the resume pretty much but it's not even that so they're all legit but vakel she'll stand there and she'll bang and i love that kind of fight like it's not going to be a chasm it'll be a brawl so that's why i was potentially that one but who knows how everything's going to work out yeah it's a it's an interesting time right now luckily for you you've been able to keep yourself very busy with this time off like i saw you have a youtube channel you got the website, the aspenlad.com. Let the folks know about these projects.

What can they expect if they go to the YouTube page or go to the website? What can they find it either? Yeah. So when you're forced to sit out for months on end due to surgery and rehab and all that stuff, you need to stay busy. But it really opened my eyes to the lack of, not just in my own life, but branding, self-promotion. And a lot of fighters, at least people that I know personally, don't really attend any of that. It's just other people in their life, they basically take, but they don't set you up kind of thing.

Fighters have to look out for their own future and their own after fighting, basically. You need to set yourself up. So in the time I've been off, I've been working on self-promotion branding, YouTube website, everything that I should have done years ago, but never really had the time to do. It's a new journey. So in a weird way, like obviously getting injured is. is not great. It's terrible. But at the same time, in a weird way, deep down, is this kind of like a blessing in disguise in a way because it opened these doors for you

that maybe you wouldn't have walked through had this injury not occurred? I've definitely met some neat people. You're definitely a silver lining is going to go, aren't you? I am. Yeah. So there's been some good that's come out of it, but I don't ever want to do this again. I'll tell you that much. That's true. But at least you set yourself up in some ways, you know, either way. right. At least it keeps you busy between fights too. Like if you know you have a fight you get a few weeks off you can you get some stuff to work on. Oh I'm grateful. I'm grateful that I have it all set up now because it's very time consuming. What's so time, like what are some of the things that you're doing

for that if like in terms of the branding, the self-promotion like what what sort of in particular are you working on? What's what can people find kind of at the top of the list? Right now. So it's, it's, And it's a little bit different because I'm starting to come back into fighting now. I'm going to be getting into camp pretty soon. So that time's going down. For me, it's really finding good people and having good people around you. I'm not just talking like sponsorships, promotions. I'm talking about people that look for your best interest financially.

So it's like you, if you have an injury, you go to a doctor, right? If you have money and you need to do something with it, you go to investor, You go to somebody, an accountant, somebody that knows better than you. So there's people that do this in branding and in MMA. I think it's really just connecting with the right people. For me, I work a lot with Amanda England, and she's done very, very good. And it's having somebody that looks out for your best interest and is able to put the pieces together in a way that you might not necessarily think about. So that's not what I do.

I'm a fighter. So it's really going out and connecting with the right people and then moving forward as a team. And that's so beneficial for you to learn these lessons at a young age because, I mean, I talk to fighters who are in their upper 30s, early 40s. They haven't figured this part of it out yet. So that's huge for you to figure this out now. Shoot, I'm still, I'm figuring it out as I go. But it's just, it feels better to have started. Did I see that there's another member of the Lad family that's about to get a fighting career started?

Did I see you have a brother who's about to debut? When is this happening? Yeah, that is my giant. little brother who's going to be fighting at 205 this time. Shela, it's in two weeks. So he's been wanting to fight forever. And he turned 18 in December. And since I'm trying to get a fight with COVID, it's been hard. But he finally has won in Utah. So we're all road tripping out there. It's going to be awesome. Nice. How long has he been in the game training and getting himself ready at least for the 18th birthday to roll along so he could have this opportunity to fight?

Oh, God. He did. He started karate when he's young. He's been going to the gym with me for forever. So Shailer's been doing it for probably five or six years now at least. Is he still in school? What was that? Is he still in school? He is. He's a senior though. He's finishing up. But with them like COVID, like I don't know if he's ever going to get to go back to actual school. So I hope he does because last year he's been really good in wrestling. So he's been doing MMA and karate forever.

He got into wrestling. Did great. And then he just couldn't do it anymore because everything shut down. Good on him. We wish him the best of luck. By the, way, Fluffy Hernandez. What a performance. What a fight. I think I'm turning about February, I believe. What an upset. No one gave him a chance to win. He goes out there and submits a former multi-time ADCC champion. I mean, that must have been ridiculous for you to watch. What did you think of Anthony's performance and what it has led to, the bonus and him being able to help his family out, give the kids the house they wanted. It's what he told me. What was that like for you to see to see him have that moment? At this point, Fluffy's basically one of my other brothers.

We've been together forever. It was like, it's hard to even describe. It's like he's the one of the ones where he fights. Like, I feel like I'm going to throw up the entire time. Like, I'm fine fighting myself. If I really care about somebody, it's really, really bad. Like, a couple weeks in Utah is going to be really, really bad. So it was a huge sigh of relief and just being extremely happy.

He's like, oh, okay. Yay. So that's basically fit. Like, I can't. It's hard, man. What he got taken down? We were just like, uh-oh. And then he was able to get back to his feet.

And you saw that, you know, his opponent was super tired. And Anthony started getting off. He was landing those big shots, but he wouldn't go down and finally gets a submission. I was just like, man, this is such a wild ride. So for you, is it more nerve-wracking for you watching teammates, family, et cetera, fight as opposed to when you fight? Way harder. And no, I wasn't shot.

when he got his submission. That is like, we call it the fluffy teen at the gym. He gets, and he's been doing that in his fights forever. He gets everybody with it. But I did hear, I believe, in his corner, Jim and everybody, no, no, no, no, don't do it. But he got it. Unbelievable. That was a great performance. You obviously have a lot going on these days, Aspen. I appreciate the time very much. Looking forward to this return. Anything else you want to let the folks know about before we wrap this thing up? Just a huge thank you for having me on. and you guys will be sending me back soon and hopefully I guess Peña,

but we'll see if she gets what she wants. Any message you want to send Juliana's way before you say goodbye? I've made it this long without talking trash. I think I'm going to keep it. Aspen Ladd making her debut on the show. Listen, that's what she wants. She wants the fight with Juliana Pena.

She understands if the UFC decides to book Nunes versus Pena. She actually thinks Pena matches up pretty well stylistically, but she wants the fight with Pena. She said, hey, we booked this thing twice. Let's settle the score. And then we can start talking title fights at 135 pounds. Either way, I'm excited to see Aspen Lad back in the Octagon competing soon. And that's good.

That's good for the division. It's good to see Aspen back. She's one of the exciting prospects in the women's divisions. No doubt about it. One fighter who will be competing soon, Trevin Giles. In fact, he'll be fighting this Saturday at UFC Vegas, 22. Let's hear from Mr. Giles right now. All right, we move ahead to our next guest.

Here turns to action this Saturday at UFC Vegas 22. He takes on Roman DeLideze. Trevin Giles joins us on the program and on Fight Week. How are you, sir? I'm good. How are you? I'm good. So a little behind the scenes chat here took us a while to get this thing going between getting the audio to work and then getting everybody to stay in the room to produce this thing.

I mean, technology is a son of a gun. Is it not, Trevin? Yeah, yeah, it is. Well, it is. You've been struggling for a little bit, but we got it. I wanted to say much filthier language in the son of a gun, but I caught myself. But I appreciate you joining me, man, especially on Fight Week. As we have all learned over the last year, especially,

card is subject to change, is a very real thing you were supposed to face. Drick is Duplice on this card. And unfortunately, he had visa issues and was forced out of the fight. So I'm curious, when were you? you made aware that things were getting switched up and you were getting a new opponent. Just like a couple of days ago. I want to say it was Saturday. So not too bad. It's better than the Krause situation when you find out what day before? Right. Yeah, exactly. So, I mean, that time it was under a little bit of different circumstances because, you know, the guy had some issues with his weight and ended up having to get hospitalized.

He tried to cut too much. But it was kind of similar to actually, when I first, fought my last fight, Bevin. I was supposed to fight John Young Park, I think. Oh, that's right. Yeah, and then he had visa issues too, so it didn't happen. I mean, it's just part, it's part of the sport, and it's part of kind of like this world we're living in right now where things can just happen and things switch up all the time, so it's hard to get comfortable. But especially the guy, like, with Drickis, he had a great debut. He had a lot of buzz coming into the UFC coming from the international circuit, the EFC champion, former KSW champion, had a great first round stoppage against Marcus Perez losing the opponent. Obviously, it's happened to you before. It's out of your control,

but were you kind of bummed that you were losing out on a, on a chance to derail that train a little bit? No, I mean, I never think about trying to derail anybody's train or anything like that. I mean, I think it's good when guys get hype behind them, you know, get some more fans and stuff. We all kind of have the same goal. You know, everybody wants to go in there. and just, you know, have good performances and make some money. So people are hyped up. I never mind that. But I was, so my intention isn't to derail any train, but just to beat them, you know.

So whenever I have an opponent in mind and I'm supposed to fight somebody, I have a mindset to fight them. I always like to be able to just to get that done because that's what I've been visualizing, you know. So more than anything, it's just upset and I won't be able to get the opportunity to do that right now. So you don't, I mean, there's a lot of fighters up there who like look for chips to find heading in these fights to add to their shoulders. You're not that kind of a guy. You don't need a chip.

You just know you're going into to fight somebody and try to make some money. Yeah, man, it's a, it's a competition. I mean, we can be competitive and stuff like that. That's fine. But I don't know any of these guys before I fight them, you know. So, and I don't need to look for a reason to be angry or not like the guys to put hands on them. for me it's a sport you know i mean that's it right so i mean we can fight and then afterwards i'll shake your hand like i always do it's nothing personal for me when i saw that roman de lise

was your opponent my third one my first thought was all right short notice maybe trevin's like forget a weight cut he's going to fight him at two o five since roman's entire career was either at two o five or at heavyweight and it turns out he's going to make the drop to one eighty five on short notice Did you kind of have a double take when you found out you were fighting Roman DeLizze at 185 pounds? To be honest, I didn't know who he was. I got, I ended up finding out. I wasn't fighting my last opponent. And then one of my coaches sent me his name and said, hey, you know, we might want to jump on this tonight or whatever because of, you know, whatever reason.

So then I was just like, let's do it, right? And then I started looking at film and stuff afterwards. And then, and I didn't even know he was fighting at light, heavy or anything like that until I watched film, then started seeing people, you know, talk about it and talk about how he's cutting down and stuff. So, um, I didn't, I didn't think much of it, man.

Right now I'm just glad to still be able to fight this weekend. So nothing really changes for you whatsoever. Same mentality, same game plan. Maybe, maybe some things change a little bit just based on watching film, but for the most part, is really changing from one opponent to the next. That's all right, man. I just try to keep myself in the same mental space.

I don't want to get all tripped out about opponents, which, and it seems like that's the name of the game now, right? I mean, these days, that's just kind of how it's going to happen. So it's kind of got to go with it. It's funny, like, talking to different fighters because some are, like, fully engulfed in the fight game, and they watch every single event and every single fight. And I know you're a busy guy, you're a police officer,

you get a million things going on. But do you try to, like, separate yourself from the sport, or do you at least try to watch whatever you're available to watch when it comes to, like, being a fan of the sport? Yeah, so I'm a fan of a couple of fighters. I wouldn't necessarily say I'm a fan of the sport. There are always, I always get people like, hey, did you see such and such fight, right? Like, and there are just so many people that I'm not aware of, right?

Just because I don't really watch it that much, right? Not unless there's like a, you know, a big event going on. You know, like anytime you get John Jones fighting, Connor McGregor, like, you know, the big names and stuff like that. And then, you know, some of the guys that I know as well, right, if I see some of those guys fighting, or I know they're getting ready to fight, then I'll watch. But other than that, I mean, I'm not a huge fan of the sport. It's a lot more fun when you know somebody that's fighting. But it's, I guess it's kind of, like I talked to Max Holloway about a month ago, He just, the fact that he separates from himself from the sport completely is like so refreshing to him.

Like he fights, goes through Fight Week, has his performance, and then he's just gone until he has, you know, signs for his next fight. And it's like so refreshing to him. Is it kind of like that for you, like just being able to separate yourself from the sport and, you know, be Trevin the person, Trevin the police officer. And then Trevin the fighter is like a completely different person at a completely different time. Yeah, yeah, for sure, right. I mean, it's definitely like that.

I mean, for me, even just being a police officer outside of my uniform, I don't think about being a police officer. I don't think about doing any of that stuff outside of fighting. I don't think about fighting. I mean, fighting is stressful, man. I mean, when you know that you're getting ready to go and fight somebody and they could possibly hurt you and you just, you know, you get, you got a bunch of confidence going on, but then you got doubts. And there's just a bunch of stuff that goes on in your head, you know. So whenever it's all set and done, I'd like for it to be to be done, right? Like, I don't, I don't go and think about fighting or anything like that again,

until I start getting into camp. And then it feels good again, right? Because other than that, I'd be, if I did anything other than that, I think I'd just be stressed out. And I think it'll burn you out if you're always about fighting. So I agree with Holloway. It's a lot easier separating yourself. Speaking of fighting, you looked great in your last fight, but it was, I mean, it's been quite the road to get there.

I mean, you had the two losses. You had the, like we talked about the James Krause thing where you had the opponent switch on a day. Then the thing with before the Kevin Holland fight where you fainted, but you get back in there in November and you stop a very tough guy in Bavon Lewis in the third round. After everything you had gone through over the last 18 months, maybe a little more than that, what did it feel like to go in there, had that kind of performance and get a finish like that? I mean, it felt good, man. I mean, you can't stop life from happening to you, right? I mean, sometimes we go through all these rough patches and stuff. I mean, you just got to have enough faith to know everything's going to come together, right?

So when I had that fight and everything came together the way I needed to, it felt good. It just lets you, it makes you understand how important it is not to quit and not to hang your head down, right? So stuff will happen and it is what it is. But yeah, whenever, uh, when I got that fight and I actually got to finish him and everything, it, uh, it did feel good. I feel like I got some momentum behind me now. Finding out you were, because I remember like everything with, with the Kevin Holland thing and, you know, there's like a certain rule, especially now in MMA, like, you know, a fight isn't official until both guys are in the octagon. We even saw it with Chad Skelly. He's in the octagon and Jamal Emmer's had back spasms. He didn't even make

it out to the octagon. So it's just like a strange situation. But finding out that the reason that you fainted, and I saw your Instagram post the next day was due to some heart issues, was that kind of a scary thing for you? Did you, was there a part of you that's like, man, like, this is, this is crazy? Why is this happening? Like, I might not be able to do this anymore. Yeah, it was scary. I mean, anytime something happens and it threatens your career, and not just your career, man, but when you start talking about your life, right? I mean, I had a bunch of weird, weird people. people, a lot of MMA fans and stuff like that. They like to, for some reason, it's more entertaining for them to feel like I was afraid.

So I fainted and, and I don't know, it was some kind of way of me to get out of the fight or something, right? But it's weird, man. Like, I don't know. I don't know. I mean, but anyway, so, but yeah, just hearing that at first, it was like I didn't know what was going on, right? I just wasn't aware of anything that was going on. And then I saw everybody around me. And then they kind of had funny looking, like looks on their faces.

We ended up, I ended up saying I felt fine because I did. You know, I mean, once I came to, I felt fine. I didn't know what happened at first. I was like, I know damn will Holland didn't knock me out, right? Like, I didn't know if the fight was over or something, you know? But I ended up getting transported to the hospital, got to the hospital, A few nurses and stuff were around me And then they started looking at my monitor funny

And then the doctor came up And he's just like He said that my heart stopped for A decent period of time But it was weird because I was talking to one of my coaches Apparently while my heart stopped, right? And he said they'll just keep a close look on me So I spent the night there

They said it happened a couple more times overnight And then it stopped happening So I don't know what it was But you know when stuff like that happens you think about your career and you think about your family you know i mean that's those uh i mean more than anything your family right so i don't know i didn't know if my life was just going to change after that but i haven't had any issues since so i'm good and i'm going to keep going did you end because i know in that instagram post you said you were going to go see a cardiologist and

try to get some answers did you did you end up doing that yeah i mean even while i was uh they were doing all types of tests on me while I was in Vegas and then they wanted to keep me. So I told them, you know, no, I want to go home to my family. They were worried about me and stuff. So I had some doctors and stuff I know down here. They put me in the room with some specialists and stuff and they started. I mean, it seemed like every day Anita was getting stuck in me. And I always had to have all this crap sticking to my skin and stuff.

but from what they were saying is I looked healthy to them and they don't know why I had heart issues when I was when I was backstage over there they don't know what was going on in Vegas but they said I look fine right now and they were just saying keep an eye on it and if it happens again come back in like I said I haven't had any issues and when I was in Vegas they said they saw it happen multiple times overnight but then it stopped So again, I don't know.

I mean, so when I got to Houston, they didn't really see much. They saw that I was healthy and we set up the next fight. Yeah, and then you got a knockout. So there you go. It's a Halls-All that ends well, I guess. I mean, middleweight in the middle-way division right now, it's really interesting. There's a lot of big fights in 85 over the next month or so. One of them is in the main event this Saturday with Derek Brunson and Kevin Holland.

Do you feel like 185 is as interesting as it's ever been now with like all these new contenders emerging, the champion being Israel to Sanya. Do you see a lot of opportunity in this division right now? Yeah, to me, in my opinion, not even just saying it because I'm in the division, but I think it is the most exciting division because you have the perfect mix of knockout power and skill, right? So, I mean, you look at heavy weights. Heavy weights are kind of starting to get more athletic and stuff and look better. But for the most part, they're like, They're bruisers, right? Like, they just come out to land a shot and put you away, right?

I mean, there's usually not a whole bunch of technique that's put towards it. And then you get down to 205, it's similar, but they have a little more skill and the, but not as good cardio. And then you get to 185 and there's like the mixture, right? And then it kind of, the power and stuff starts going down once you get there, right? Like fights last longer once you start going to the smaller weight classes. So I think the middleweight division is definitely the most scariest because guys are athletic and they can kind of do it all. So right now I think it's very exciting. I mean, like you said, there's not a lot of time to like prepare for Roman.

You watch a little bit of film on him. You're not a guy that watches all the time. So you weren't even familiar with him when you got the name. But from what you've seen like in the film that you've watched in the fights you've seen with Roman, what would have you made of his rise? You know, he's eight, no. What have you made of a skill set? kind of the openings you see in this fight on Saturday? I think his best thing that he's got going for him is just his confidence.

And I can't, he seems very confident. I think that my edge is going to be my athleticism and my striking and my speed. I don't think that he's going to be able to deal with that. I expect him to try to mix up his, his striking to try to get me worried about his striking to get a little respect to the striking and then try and sneak a takedown on me to slow down my game and stuff. But we'll see what happens. I mean, I think that he's a decent fighter. I don't think that he's, I don't think he'd be somebody that's, he doesn't look like an easy guy to put away. I mean, nobody's done

it, right? So it's interesting. And he's kind of unpredictable. His leg locks. I'd see he'd like drop down like from somebody's open guard and try to grab a leg lock, right, or a heel hook, right? So it's interesting. I mean, I think he's going to be a fun fight. I think it'll be a fun fight. I think it'll be one that's good for the fans and everybody look at. It'll be good. It'll be an entertaining fight. Apparently, he's been looking to make the move to 85 for a little while, so I think he's already been trying to cut down and slim down to get there. Is there a part of that's concerned, you know, like you said, it's a big drop off between 205 and 185. That's a big drop. Are you concerned about possibly, especially with the short notice? You're concerned that

maybe a hiccup on the scale because, or are you just not concerned because it's not in your control? It's not in my control. It concerns me a little bit, you know, I trust that he's going to get there. You know, I don't think that a guy that's coming from 205 or that's always been fighting heavier. It just takes a short notice. And he's like, yeah, I'll just, I'll just, I'll just, I'll just, kill my body and get there. Hopefully he's not doing that, right? So I already imagine that he was probably already set to try and make a 205, a 185 appearance.

But it worries me a little bit, right? You never know what guys are doing or what they're going through, you know? So it worries me a little bit. I already had one opponent that can't fight. And now if I end up having another one that can't fight, that's going to be irritating to me, right? Because who knows if somebody else popped? up, right? If not, then I got to wait, you know, so we'll see what happens. Like you said,

it's out of my control, so we'll see. Well, I'm a Silver Lines guy. I'm a positive thinker. Let's, uh, all things good. Both of you guys make weight. We step in the octagon on Saturday. How do you see this thing playing out? Um, I think that, uh, he seems to be patient. So I think that it'll start off being a little chess match. Maybe it just, it all really just depends on what you see when you get out there. But, um, like I said, I think, that I'm going to have the speed advantage. I think my strike is going to be better than his. And I see him trying to close the distance.

And I expect to be catching him with some nice shots and probably finish him. If he's out there and he's sluggish, I know he's been cutting weight, so maybe he's a little bit faster. But if he's sluggish, I'll finish him at maybe end of the first or maybe towards the middle of the second. I wanted to get your take on something because you said something earlier that kind of boggled my mind when we were talking about the, the heart issue and fans hitting you up,

thinking that you were ducking and you were afraid to fight Kevin Holland. And it's something I saw you post on social media as well after the Connor McGregor, Dustin Porier fights. I know you took umbrage with some people and some fans sort of giving Connor a hard time about the loss and everything. And we're seeing a lot of that when it comes to what happened in the fight between Al Jerm and Piotr-Yon with the illegal knee. And you know this as well as anybody.

It could be pretty rough on the. to Webza times being part of this sport. What is that like, man, as a fighter to deal with these kinds of things? And how do you navigate that stuff? Because it's probably hard to ignore and you don't want to drive yourself too crazy with it. Well, I mean, it's annoying, man.

I mean, you just got to get to a point where you understand that these people aren't in your position. That's where they're talking, right? I mean, you can, these same people, if they could watch what happened to me and have something to say or say that I'm scared and all that other stuff. The reason why you don't really see fighters saying stuff like that

is because they actually have to fight, right? So if they got to fight next week, they don't want to be talking right now and then get knocked unconscious by somebody next week, right? It's just real, you know? And a lot of fighters know that things happen, right? I mean, we put our bodies through a lot. So stuff happens, but it gets, it's very annoying.

It's extremely annoying, And especially when you, I mean, before I made it to the UFC, I was, I want to say I was nine and oh or eight and oh, one of those with all finishes but one, right? I was finishing everybody like crazy. And then I came into the UFC, you got two finishes, knockout finishes. Then I stopped and went to the police academy. Came back, took a couple losses. And now it's like everything, everybody forgets everything, right? Or if you have a heart problem, right?

They can know you have a heart problem. But for some reason, it's just more entertaining. if I was scared, right? So I don't know, man. And it doesn't help that people, I mean, people say things. I mean, even Dana, right? Like, Dana will say stuff, right? And he's a civilian too, right?

It's not like he's somebody who's getting out of there and putting anything on the line, right? So he says stuff too. Like, he basically led towards me being scared. He's like, oh, you know, these are big events and, you know, some of these guys can handle it. Some of these guys can't. And so he'll say stuff like that. So when fans hear stuff like that, and it's coming from Dana, now it's like, oh, well, Dana's saying it, right?

So, right? It's like for some reason he has some kind of credibility there when he's never had to really lace up and do the job, you know? And it doesn't help also when, you know, I mean, Holland was talking to, you know, he was like, oh, I think he said I held my breath or something like that to get out of the fight. I held my breath and passed out. But, you know, he made it clear that he was just upset. that the fight didn't happen and stuff.

So I won't go too much on that. But when people hear that, it becomes an entertaining thing for them to just keep it going, right? Like, oh, he was scared, right? It's, that's the fun thing. I guess it's much more fun than me having heart issues. It's crazy, man. So crazy. And you kind of just want to see the meat a little humble pie once in a while, like, especially, like, when they say that and then they find out of heart issues,

you'd be like, ooh, probably should take that comment back. Right. And then they won't, right? Like they don't care, man. They don't care. These people are ruthless, man. These people are like, ah, man, it's just natural to feel like hurting these people, right? But they're just, there's no telling who they are. I mean, they can be unhappy people and people that don't have stuff going on for them in their own lives. And you just don't know, right?

So I don't know. I just, I try not to think about it too much, but it's annoying. Yeah. And I think at the same time it kind of feels like the sports made it in a way. way because you see this at every other sport too. Like Tom Brady, like I'm a Boston guy, big Tom Brady fan, even when he went to Tampa. I'm still going to take pride in that victory. But people just hate Tom Brady for no reason.

He's just a guy who wins and people just hate him. It's just wild. Man, I think it's people don't like success that much, right? I mean, if you get, you get people that, I think that it has to do with people's own internal issues, right? If you get somebody who never loses, I mean, you get a guy that loses that stuff in life, and then that guy sees somebody who's not losing. He's winning.

Then it's just like, now they want to wait for him to lose, and they want to wish him a loss because it means that they're not as bad, right? It's like, oh, well, if he loses, then maybe I don't suck so much, right? Like, so they try to push it off on somebody else, you know? So I think that's all it is. I think that's why people wanted to see Floyd lose, too. It's because you have to lose for some reason in people's mind, you have to. You just, you have to, right?

but you don't, right? So I don't know. I don't know. I think people aren't happy, man. Should be a fun fight on Saturday between Trevin Giles and Roman DeLeedze. I don't think that one's going to full 15, ladies and gentlemen. I don't think it does. But we'll see how it plays out.

Maybe I'm wrong. I don't think I will be, though. But another fighter looking to have a short night of the office in his own right in Las Vegas, Nevada this Saturday, is the man making his debut at 155 pounds after an unbelled. beaten start to his featherway career in the UFC. Let's hear from Grant the Prophet's Dawson. All right. One of the brightest prospects in the UFC returns to the program this week. It returns to the Octagon. March 20th heads to the UFC lightweight division to take on Leonardo Santos. Hell of a fight right there. Grant Dawson, the man behind Dawson Airlines joins us once again. How are you,

man? I'm fantastic. Thank you so much for having me on the show. Absolutely. So I have to get your take on something right off the bat, non-fight related, because when this news came to light, Grant, you were the first person I thought of because we've talked about it so much. You've been trying to sell me on it. Gina Carrano no longer a part of the Mandalorian. And we don't need to get into politics or anything of that nature. But in terms of the actual program, is this a giant hit to it? Because I'm sorry, I still haven't watched a second of it yet. I don't know if it's a giant hit to the show as a whole. It's going to be really hard to to hurt that show right now

because it's done so well. I will say though, we were just starting to, if you haven't seen the second season, we started diving into her backstory, and it really looked like she was going to be a big character for the next couple of seasons. And so her leaving, I don't know if it hurts the show,

but it's definitely a disappointment. I was definitely hoping for some backstory with her and seeing her relationship with the Mandalorian grow. But, you know, it is what it is. I'm sure the show will be fantastic with or without her, and it does suck what happened. And, you know, I'd be lying if I didn't say it's kind of ridiculous, but it is what it is, man. You got to, you got to roll with the punches.

She's doing fine for herself. Yeah. In terms of the fights of, I did want to start this past weekend at UFC 259 because I just spoke with Tim Elliott. I thought his performance was ridiculous. I thought he looked tremendous. I thought it was one of his very best against a really tough guy in Jordan Espinoza. And I was talking with Laura Sanko about it the other day as well. I called it like a workman-like performance room.

him like he's still kind of a wild man, but it was like a more composed wild man that was in that octagon. Like what did you think watching Tim fight on Saturday? Well, you know, it's really cool seeing the old dog with new tricks, you know. I feel like when you're when you're known for something being crazy, knockout power, whatever it is when you're when you've built a career off of one thing, it's really hard to kind of let that one thing go when it stops working. You know, people want to be like, well, I built my career doing this. So I've got to keep it. I've got to get it better. And Tim was willing to let his craziness and his wild, crazy, out-of-control style go as, you know, he gets older, the competition

gets better. These kids are growing and able to kind of hang with him. And he's really starting to fight smart, which is not what he's known for. So it's really cool to see the old dog with new tricks. And it's really a testament of how good James is, you know. Tim was Elton. swear for about three years and went those three years without a win and came back to to james was with him for two weeks picked up a win got his confidence back got another fight lined up and had a dominant performance i think they're trying to set up uh uh tim versus kai kara france next is what i'm hearing and i just think that's another great fight for him to look amazing in and it's really interesting to see where his career is going especially at 125 being you only need a few fights to get back into

that title shot yeah that's what he wants as well well, that would be a great fight to watch. Of course, another teammate of yours fought on Saturday, didn't go her way, but she got her chance to become a world champion. She took on one of the greatest fighters in the history of the sport. And listen, what happens? Happens. And it's happened to many before her and will probably happen to many after her. But, you know, I'm sure a part of her is crushed. But at the same time, even spending two minutes in there with Amanda Nunes, being part of a build to a title fight, it's hard not to take very valuable lessons from that experience. So I'm curious if you've spoken with Megan yet and, you know,

How is she doing after Saturday? Yeah, she's of good spirits, you know. She's got her head up. She's a fighter, man. It's not the first time that she's dealt with adversity. I'm sure she'll be back. And at the same time, it's like when that happens, it absolutely sucks. But you've got to think, the next fight that I have, I'm not fighting Amanda Nunez, the greatest female fighter of all time.

You know, so it's going to be definitely a lesson. And I can't wait to see how she grows from it, you know. And it's all decision-based. She can choose to grow from this or she can choose to let this track her down. And deep down, I know she's going to choose the right choice. Well, sir, you are back in action next weekend, March 20th against Leonardo Santos, your first fight since July. And you made the decision to go to 55. And the main reason before that was because you wanted to be ready to go for short-notice opportunities.

And I'm surprised that you hadn't gotten that call until now with what the world is like. I mean, maybe you did. I'm not aware of it, but eight months between the Nader-Omani fight to now, I'm sure this wasn't how you drew it up. But can you explain, at least from where you sit, why it took so long to get you back in there? Yeah, man. So basically, you know, my management team does a great job. You know, the guys with Aridium doing amazing work. I'm very happy with everything that I have with the UFC.

The issue was I was a puzzle piece that fit into a puzzle. and then you take that puzzle piece and put it into a box with a completely different puzzle, you got to figure out where it goes. You know, you don't want to give me somebody too high up because I haven't earned it at 155. You don't want to give me somebody too low down because, you know, I'm undefeated in the UFC. So it's really weird. And, you know, with how much I'm making and all that, it's really weird to fit me into that puzzle. I truly believe that once I beat Santos in impressive fashion, I will be able to get a quick turnaround.

My goal is to be able to fight May 15th right after Santos. I've got a name picked out. I got everything that I want to do. Whether it happens or not, I'm going to stay ready and be ready to do that. And it's one of those situations where you just kind of got to roll with the punches. And I'm ready to get after it. You know, Santos is my number one priority right now. And everything else after that is just going to be opinion-based.

That's interesting because, you know, especially after our last conversation, I would think that you had been frustrated with this, but it seems like you get it, and it makes all the sense in the world as to why you weren't in there. So you're okay with how this all played out and getting the fight that you got, even though it took so long.

Well, also, my manager is sitting right across for me, listening to every word, so I don't want him to beat me up later. No, I'm just kidding. Yeah, you got to, you, part of it's my fault as well, you know, knowing that I was going up a weight class, I gained some weight, and I wanted to take a little time off

to put a little bit more muscle on me, and then just the timing and which opponent just didn't really fit right. So we're good. You know, I'm happy. We got the fight that I wanted to get, and I truly think that I'll be able to fight a bunch more this year. 2021, my goal is at least three fights, possibly four,

and I'm willing to take short notice fights, FDB, to get those. I mean, there's a lot of similarities between you guys when you look at the numbers. like both of you are on seven fight win streaks both of you are looking to make that leap to the next level I mean he's got you by a few years in the age department but with a guy like that the team he's a part of the experience he brings to the table it's a really good opportunity for both of you guys when you look at the matchup stylistically on paper how do you like it man I'm not I would lie to you if I didn't you know I like the matchup I think I I work really well into his game I feel like we have close to some

similar games I'm just better at it I think that I'm the better wrestler. I think that if you put us in a ghee, he could probably beat me, but we're not fighting in the ghee. I know how to fight in MMA. Every practice that he has in the Ghee is going to hurt him in this fight, you know, because all my practices are based around doing what he's doing, but in MMA. So I love the matchup. I don't think he's going to be able to keep up with my pace. If you watch his last fight, you know, he had some struggles against a guy that I don't think is very good. And I think that being able to do what that guy did to him is, it's going to be not a walk in the park by any means. It's a very, very tough fight, but it's a tough fight that I'm going to make look easy.

I remember watching his last fight with Roman Bogotov, and my dad, who doesn't watch MMA, was sitting right next to me. So this is like the first fight he had seen since Connor McGregor knocked out Eddie Alvarez at UFC 205. And what happened in that third round with the gnarly shots to the nads, and then the, illegal knee on top of that. He was like, what the hell is going on here? So, I mean, obviously Santos was gone for three years. He was dealing with a ton of injuries. He's had two fights and two wins. What have you made outside? I mean, obviously the Bogotov, you have things on, but the win over Stevie Ray, just what have you seen from him over his last couple of fights? Man, it's really hard to take those, you know, those fights for what they are

because they had so long ago. If you look at him on paper, he's a tough matchup, you know? Seven-time Brazilian Jiu-Titza world champion. Wins over Kevin Lee, wins over Stevie Ray. Stevie Ray, wins over there's one more guy that he beat that was really good and I always forget his name. Rocco. You know, he's got good wins. The issue was those good wins.

Who is it? Rocco Martin. The issue is those good wins. Yes, that's the one. That's what I'm thinking of. But the issue with those wins are they were years ago. You can only really judge somebody by their last performance and I think that his age is catching up to him.

And that's no dig on how old he is. It's nothing like that. but I do think that this is a young man's game. And I think it's finally starting to catch up to him. And I think that's where I'm going to capitalize on. You were obviously a very big 45 or. You're still going to be a good size 55er. I'm sure not having to cut that extra 10 pounds is a glorious thing.

But I assume overall physically you feel as good as probably as you ever have heading into a fight, knowing you don't have to put so much on cutting down to 146. Is that accurate? Yeah, absolutely. you know, I kind of fought my management team and my coaches on going to 55 just because of the size issue. I made them a promise. I said, after I missed weight with Minner, I made them a promise that if I ever missed weight again or I came close to missing weight again, I would move up, no questions asked. Then I fought Nad at a catch weight of 150 and it was still really hard to make.

I didn't almost miss by any means, but it was very difficult. and I knew in my heart that if I was going down to 1.45, I was not going to make it. So I'm a man of my word. We decided to move up, and I've been spending these last eight months putting muscle on, just getting a bigger frame. And not to mention, you know, I'm only 27 years old. My body is growing as is. And I feel like I'm at the beginning point of my peak, not even like, or of my prime.

I'm sorry, not quite there yet, but just the way that I feel and the way, how strong I am right now. I really feel like this was the right move. And I think that it's going to be nice to be in there and want to be there, not just be there because I'm tough and I love the sport, but actually want to be there, not be so drained and not be so hungry and just be thinking about getting it over with and going home. So I'm really excited to see what 155 does, and I think it's going to be the best grant we've ever seen.

What do you walk around at normally, if you don't mind me asking? about the heaviest I've seen is 195 okay I mean that's that's that's not totally uncommon for the lightweight division so I mean you so you're officially I'll the UFC lightweight now right like we're not going back to 45 for for any reason right you're you're a lightweight now uh the only reason I would go back to 145 if it was even possible would be to win a second title and be a two-division world champion. But that's so far into the future. Who knows how big I'll be?

Maybe it won't even be possible. But the only thing that would encourage me to go to 145 again is life-changing F-U money. Yes. Well, yeah, I would agree with that. While this journey continues for you next Saturday against Leonardo Santos, Grant, how do we get this thing done? How does this thing play out? How do you visualize it in your head?

I'm going to finish him. I truly believe the pace that I put on him will break him, and he will give me his neck or his arm or something. I don't have any delusions of knocking him unconscious, but I could see a TKO just due to fatigue. My plan is to put a ridiculous pace on him, and he better hope that he finishes me in the first 30 seconds, because if he doesn't, it's going to be a long, long night for him. you and I have been talking for several years now since before you're in the UFC before the contender series you've had these goals laid out like years and where are you going to be ranked and all these things do the goals all stay the same with the movement like you have this list you passionately stuck to over the last few years do they stay the same or do we have to like kind of adjust accordingly

based on the new division and the changes and all that stuff uh there there's only one goal and the is to be world champion for at least one night. Everything before that or past that or whatever you want to look at it, those are really just mild little points in the journey. So being ranked doesn't mean anything to me. Being this doesn't mean whatever doesn't mean anything to me. When it happens doesn't mean anything to me. Whether I win the belt at 30 or 40, it doesn't matter. As long as I get that bell for at least one night, this whole journey will have been will have been worth it. So I don't really care, I don't really care about, you know, what I get next. If I get a ranked guy, if I get another contender, if I get a legend or whatever, we have

names that we want to throw out that I hope I get. But as long as I get that belt before I'm done fighting, the rest really doesn't matter. Interesting. When did, when did sort of the mind frame change with that? Because I mean, like we said, every time we've talked, we've talked about this list like this year I want to be this this year I want to be this by this year I'm going to be a champion when did that change I don't think it necessarily changed um it was just when I was at 145 I could definitely see these things happening I felt like I had a lot of steam behind me um then you know missing weight with Derek uh you know kind of put a put a little stamp or a little slow in that because we didn't know if I should go up or stay down or try again and so it really just at the

end of the day, the only thing that matters is getting that belt. If I don't win a world title, this whole journey would have been a waste of my time. So the last thing that matters is getting the belt. And everything in between is just going to, I'm just going to enjoy the ride. So who's up this week for you guys? Oh, Jason Witt's fighting this weekend, right? Yep. Against Matthew Semmel's. Oh, man, that's a good scrap, man. I love that one. I'm sure Jason is in a great place mentally after that last performance. That was something else. How has he looked at? looking. Oh man, he's looking like a killer. I've been going with him a lot for this camp just to kind of get used to the strength of 155. And I got to tell you, man, he's getting better every time

we go. You know, he's he's he's just, I feel like the skills have always been there. It's just up here if he belonged. And I think now that he knows he belongs in the UFC, he's doing so much better, you know, with the guys in the room, doing so much better with just handling the big, big lights. and the potholes that come with it. And I'm super excited to see him compete, and I can't wait to see him put on another great performance. When does James get a weekend off? When does he stay home and not have to go to Vegas?

Do you know? I think it's after me. So he's got Witt this week, me next week, and then I think he's done. All right, there you go. And then he's probably going to be off with like four or five weeks in a row after that. It's crazy, man. The guy's the hardest work I've ever seen. Yeah, man, he travels so much.

And that's something that this camp has been different. You know, I'm usually with James 24-7 every single day throughout my camps. And this camp, he was, you know, he's here Monday, Tuesday, and then gone Wednesday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday. And I see him Monday, Tuesday. So it's been different. It hasn't been necessarily bad. We still talk. We still, you know, do our pad sessions and all that.

But it's just been something different and something that I've had to overcome this camp. And yeah, I'm excited to get in there and compete again, man. is it is it is it obviously you want james there as much as possible but in like a weird way is it almost better this way like just in case we go through these runs again you got to experience it at least you're getting groundwork laid out for if this happens in the future and james is such a great coach this probably will happen again at some point through one of your camps is it almost like better that it's happening now like your first fight at 55 yeah uh it could be so much worse uh my teammates jeff malina and mike breed and we're on the contender series

They flew up with their coaches, and all of the coaches tested positive for COVID and had to fly back, or I'm sorry, stay quarantined. And so they had to pretty much fight without their coaches. And it's just things like that that you have to overcome, you know? Like, are you supposed to not fight the biggest fight of your life because somebody can't be there? It's like, no, you're ready. You got to go in there and fight. Am I supposed to not take this fight because I don't see James every single day? no I'm still going to take this fight

I'm still going to go in there and I'm still going to win and we're going to adapt to any situation that happens A very confident Grant Dawson getting ready to make his 155 pound debut in the UFC this Saturday really interesting matchup with Leonardo Santos It's a good fight, it's a good card It's a good card I think after the way

UFC Vegas 21 ended I kind of think that this card's in a good position You know what I mean? Like Vegas 21 was great. There's a lot of great action. We had the two no contest, especially having one in the main event. That kind of hurts. It's a recency thing. What's the last thing that you saw from me? You saw a no contest and an eye poke. So it opens the door for some positivity, some excitement. I think this card on Saturday, headlined by Derek Brunson versus Kevin Holland,

a lot of very interesting fights on this card. So I'm looking forward to that. We're going to have another great conversation to take us out of this program in a matter of moments. But we're We're going to wrap this thing up, but you want to say thank you to everybody for watching the 50th episode of what the heck. This is crazy. 50 episodes in the books. And we have not missed a week yet. So this is pretty cool.

I mean, I know it's only 50, but we got a long way to go to catch some of the other bigger shows. But so far, 50 down, hopefully 50,000 to go. So thank you very much. Thank you. Big thank you to Casey on the production. Baddest mustache in MMA media. I'm a big pain. He gets it.

He sticks by me. Produces like a champion. We appreciate it. I'm paying to cool Alex and Jose Young's on the graphics. They come through each and every week. You guys rule. You guys are the best. And of course, to all the fighters, all the personalities,

the managers who make the show happen. Big thank you to all of you. Big couple of weeks. Hell, a big several months coming up for all of us as combat sports fans. There's just so much going on right now. So stick with us here at MMAfighting.com for all the information. all the news, all the fun when it comes to all these big events that are coming up in the next couple of months. Of course, again, if you missed it, big announcement.

April 24th, UFC back in the United States in front of a capacity crowd. Full House in Jacksonville, three title fights. UFC 261 headline by Kamar Usman versus Jorge Mazadal too. Unbelievable. But as far as this week goes, have a heck of a week, everybody. We're going to wrap things up with my chat with the former UFC heavyweight champion of the world, about to make his boxing debut April 17th, Frank Meir. All right, let us say hello to the former UFC heavyweight champion of the world,

a man who signed with BKFC recently, but it turns out before he debuts in the BKFC ring. He's going to be fighting Antonio Tarver on April 17th, part of the Triller event, headlined by Ben Ascran versus Jake Paul. Incredible stuff. Frank, how are you, man? Thank you for doing this. You're welcome, man. Thank you. It's good to have you here. It's good to catch up with you again.

First off, if somebody told you 18 months two years ago that your first fight in 2021 would be in a boxing match against Antonio Tarver, would you have believed him? No, probably not. I definitely always wanted to do boxing and kick boxing matches. And, you know, I knew that I wanted to make sure the contracts I had signed for the rest of my career didn't keep me exclusively to one organization. unless it was for that particular platform that they fought in. For example, you know, if you sign with Risen, I get it that I not do, you know, MMA fighting for somebody else, but if a kickboxing or boxing match came up,

why not? I don't understand that monopoly that guys feel that they have to keep on people. It just, you know, keeps fighters from not fighting. And, you know, we only get paid when we fight. And hell, you know, we live so long, you only have so many times to compete. I want to be able to, you know, enjoy my life and enjoy competing.

So, you know, BKFC, you know, David's what was really cool about it, saying, you know, hey, look, you sign with us. You do, you know, obviously we don't want you to fight in bare knuckle anywhere else. But if other opportunities arise that are MMA or boxing or kickboxing, jump on them. I know from our last conversation, you had said you were hoping sometime in the spring you would make your BKFC debut. And obviously this is going to be a massive card, a huge opportunity for you, like you said, to do something you've always wanted to do against a guy with an established name in the

sport of boxing. So I'm curious, like, how this came together, like, when did this get presented to you? Because this is a big deal. This is right up your alley. I don't really know a lot of them. You have to interview Malki. He'd get an answer to question. I might have to ask him how it worked out on his end, but basically it worked out like this. Hey, Frank, what are you doing? Nothing. Would you want to do a boxing match against a former world champion? Yeah, absolutely. Okay, Antonio Otar, we're April 16th. Are you on? I'm in. I'm like, cool.

That's how easy it is to be my manager. You know what? At the time, actually, I'd take it back. There was no date set. It was sometime in April, hopefully they're trying to set a fight when I first found out about it. I was like, cool, please sign me up.

And so that was about how that conversation went. That's crazy, man. And what's interesting is I've heard you talk about in interviews that one of your favorite boxers of all time is Roy Jones Jr. And obviously he was part of the first big trailer event against Mike Tyson and Tarver has a pair of wins over Roy, which probably makes it even more interesting

and more enticing for you to take this fight, right? Absolutely, and I've got to hang out with Roy a couple times overseas in Russia and whatnot, and hang out with him, and he's an incredible guy, interesting to talk to. Every bit the person I thought he would be mentally as far as the knowledge of combat sports and just, you know, warfare in general. And, you know, yeah, to be able to, you know,

get an avenge a loss for one of your heroes is always a pleasure. Seeing Roy and Mike do their thing, you know, exhibition or not, I loved it, man. I thought it was great. What was that like for you watching Roy and Mike in their 50s, looking in just tip-top physical condition? Put on a fun show like that for everybody.

You know, it's very inspiring because I think a lot of times, and in fact, it actually made me feel good that at that point, because, you know, I think when I was about 39, I mean, from about 35, my injuries have really just started compounding and it really got hard for me to train. and then about 39 I was just, you know, miserable, ready to retire. It was hard to get me in the gym because, you know, if I could get past the pain and taking up ibuprofen and whatnot to get in there, then that night of sleep was even worse.

You know, I tossed and turn from agony. And then I got an opportunity to go with bio accelerator and really got to go over Columbia and do stem cells. That helped doing all the, you know, if you find a great CBD product, a great foundation for supplements. non-American shaman, jumped on board with them, and I'm a foreign believer in that. And then Mitch respect would create them. So I started healing my body and then hanging out with, you know, Steve Date doing my conditioning over a lifetime of Nick Best and being very religious for the last

18 months for lifting weights and focused on healing my injuries. And, you know, it was embarrassing to start off with being in the gym, you know, people were looking over at me thinking that, you know, that's probably, you know, what I should be warming up with. And I'm struggling with it to get, you know, that's my max, you know. And so my health has came back and seen, you know, you know, Roy and Mike out there competing in their 50s. There was almost more validation of, look, you know, yeah, it hurts. Yeah, you're going to have to now, you know, whereas before I don't have to warm up,

now I have to warm up. Whereas before I didn't have to spend a specific practice just doing rehab. You know, it was kind of an afterthought before. Now it's like, no, no, at this time is scheduled, it's just rehab. People be like, it's not a workout. I'm like, nope, this whole practice is about, you know, fixing everything I've done throughout the week, you know, hurting myself. So, I mean, is it take more diligence? Do I have to pay more attention to what I eat?

Yeah, but, you know, the price, you know, is worth it and seeing it. And so, and again, just watching Roy and Mike, it's like, oh, you know, especially Mike Tyson, somebody I can relate to, somebody who really let himself go there through his late 30s and 40s, you know, there was times Mike was walking around 300 pounds. He wasn't healthy. And now you look at him and he's cleaned up his diet, his motivation, his training. And we got to see really in a phenomenal version of him. And so that, again, as a fighter who's getting older,

I found it especially inspiring. One thing that's interesting about this fight is, you know, in the past, you've been a guy that's been in the position that Antonio's in right now, like taking on somebody from the outside coming in from a different combat sport and trying to prove a point, kind of defend the sport in a way like you did with the first Brock Lesnar fight, and now you're heading over to the boxing ring, trying to get a big win and fly the flag of MMA against a guy like Antonio Tarver, a former world champion. Do you feel like there's any kind of advantage being on that other side that Antonio's on right now,

kind of experiencing what that's like? No, I actually like being on this side of it. There's no pressure. And in every challenge, you always learn things about yourself. And it's funny because this is a challenge where I'm actually not only am I in a position where I'm now the guy going out and being the outsider coming in and Antonio's the defender of his sport. So this is a new position for me to be in. But really the part that is the most different for me, and I've got to learn the most about myself, is that it was probably about four weeks ago where my wife was just shocked for six days a week now. Even on days I fly out of the country.

I'll be in another, you know, fly out of the state. I haven't had to leave the country a little while. I still get up, even if I have to get up at 3.30 in the morning, I go do 45 minutes of steady state cardio. First thing I do, before I eat anything, I drink a cup of coffee, 12 ounces of coffee a little more than a cup. And I go do cardio and I keep my heart rate above 140. And my wife, you know, the other day she asked me, she's like, I can't believe.

She goes, it would have been great of you discovered this 10 years ago. like, what changed? You know what changed? You know, she's the closest person to me in the world. And I was sitting there thinking about it. You know, like, you know, normally I go to get out of bed. And if I'm hurting and sore, it's hard sometimes, especially you get older. You know, it's like, ah, screw it, I'm going to sleep in, you know what? And I was like, you know what?

I said, my intelligence has actually crippled me throughout my career a little bit. I've always gone into every fight as a mixed martial artist knowing that I was the smarter guy, that if you sat there and put a whiteboard up and say, hey, explain moods. and explain strategy. There's nobody I've ever fought that knows more about mixed martial arts than I do. I could be their coach. I need more than most people's coaches

that five fought. And so that made me kind of lazy at times or not as threatened. So I put my guard down. Sometimes I was too comfortable. I was kind of like that black belt and jiu-jitsu who doesn't train his hard anymore. And then that purple belt

who's in really good shape and really hungry, he's coming after him and all of a sudden you might take him lightly. and I've, you know, but here I'm now in a situation with Tarver where the roles are completely reversed. Even though I am a very sharp boxer when it comes to the basics, there's a level of boxing that Tarver's attained because he's a specialist in it that I'm never going to attain. I'm like a decathletes, right? I can only be so good at throwing the javelin. A guy who's a specialist of the javelin's going to be better than me, even though I'm obviously familiar with it as a decathlete. And so being a mixed martial artist, I am familiar with boxing and very good at it and very good at it. very good of jiu-jitsu, very good at wrestling.

But as far as a specialist, how can I beat somebody who's a world champion as far as, how can I know more than Tarver when it comes to boxing? And so it really put me in a unique position to where now I'm focused on training being in shape because I'm like, hey, look, I got the basics down. But all the traps and trickery and all that that's usually on my side, he has. So I'm going to have to make sure I show up in phenomenal shape so that I can keep a pace and a power output, use my size and strength, and just really make sure that when I'm doing the basics,

everything I throw hurts, and it hurts for 10 rounds. It's interesting you say that about, like, the approach and, you know, the trips and the traps that you see in boxing because, I mean, Antonio hasn't fought in like six years. You know, he's 52 years old. And as you saw it Tyson and Jones, like age is just a number at this point. 22 knockouts in his career, and no matter how old you get, there's still going to be some pop there no matter what.

So do you take kind of more of a modern-day MMA approach to this boat where you're worrying just about yourself, you're not watching a lot of film on Antonio? Because, you know, six years is a long time, right? Well, no, actually, I still watch a ton of film on Antonio. But still there's parts of his personality that over, you know, a 25, 30-year career that he's not going to change, that haven't changed. Certain tendencies when I see him in certain situations, that, you know, it's his mind. it's a spirit. There are certain neurological formatting that gets you. And you can learn how to hide it. You can learn how to leverage it. But I mean, really changing your colors doesn't really happen. You know what I mean? You can make yourself a better version of yourself. But as far as completely

rewriting a book, uh-uh, doesn't happen. So there's certain things that Tarver does in certain situations that those are the things he's still going to do now. And the advantage I have in this fight is that I know how he looks in a boxing match. The disadvantage he has in this fight is he doesn't know what I look like in a boxing match. He only sees what I look like with my stance adjusted for defending kicks, defending takedowns and knees on top of defending hands. And there's a difference between an MMA stance, even just breaking it down to that point and a boxing stance. What's the training camp like for this? Are you sticking around at the same places you were at?

I know you worked with Angela Reyes for a long time. I know how important he was in you learning the basics of boxing and bringing it to MMA. How are you handling the preparation in terms of coaching, guys you're working with, et cetera? Well, right now I work with John Wood a ton and the different guys that send, you know, Gunner's sending Mike piles in there. And those guys, you know, and I work with a lot of guys as far as sparring. What I do is to make it equal is right now I spar 12 rounds. And I just make sure that everybody I spar is just a fresh guy coming on me every round.

So that way, even though there might be a difference in some. skill level, you know, and there are also, everybody has to stand left-handed, not everybody in there's a southbound naturally. So even though that there's difficulty there, you know, as round six, round seven, around eight comes out, and that's that guy's first round, it makes it much more even and makes it much more difficult for me, and I have to push that much harder. So that's how I work that out. I'm only really sparring two and three times a week. The other two or three times I hit pads hard. and then whatever I do in the morning, like, you know, like, for example, today was a pad day in the morning. So I wake up in the morning, my schedule for today, right?

I woke up in the morning at 7, you know, take my vitamins, drink, my coffee, kind of sit and vegetate for a second. I get to the gym about 8 o'clock. I do cardio until about, you know, 8.45. I eat breakfast at 9 o'clock, and I'm at the gym at Syndicate at 10. I hit pads really hard because it's a hard session if it's in the morning with padwork. with John, we did eight rounds. And then when I get done, I go home, I eat lunch. Then at 2 o'clock, I go to the weight room, and I still lift weights.

I lift weights six days a week. I'm a big believer that all you do is you drop the volume, but you can keep the intensity. And that's why my strength and powers stayed the way it is, and I'm not getting injured. It's a mistake I've made in the past, and now as I train my daughter, my daughter lifted weights all the way up until four days before each one of her fights. and people think I'm crazy doing it, but I'm like, hey guys, the NFL guys, in season, lift weights. And those guys are a million-dollar athletes. There's a reason why.

There's just a smart way to do it. And then when I get done with that, I go home again. I have approaching shake. I eat. I usually try to take a nap or relax. I have a gap between 4 and 6 o'clock. At 6.30, I'm back at the gym. And if I hit pads in the morning,

then at nighttime, I do what's called drill work. Like tonight, Jake, my partner, he puts on a body shield so I can hit him in the body. you know, with some authority without ruining them. And we basically go back and forth with drills. So it's intermediately, instead of just hitting padwork and then going to sparring, now it's kind of like controlled sparring

where we're going to hit certain scenarios. We're like, he's going to throw a combination. It can either be a jabber hook, so my reaction has to react, and then I have a set counter I'm going to throw. And then we just go back and forth drilling that, you know, tonight we did eight rounds of specific fight stuff drilling.

Tomorrow, basically how it works is that instead of me hitting pads in the morning. I still do cardio first thing in the morning from 8 to 845 breakfast. Then I'll spar for the morning session. And then in the evening at 6.30, I'll do pad work instead of the man work as far as drilling. And I still lift weights about 2 o'clock.

Kind of going back to the boxing versus M.A. thing. Like you said, there is a tension on this fight with Tara for sure. I think it's a very cool thing. But you're not fighting Jake Paul. so there isn't this pressure that Ben Ascran has heading into his fight. Like, it's like the weight of the MMA world is like on his shoulders. It's, I mean, I can't imagine the pressure he's under in his boxing debut. I'm sure there's a part of you that feels like you're defending the sport,

but in Ben's situation, like what advice would you give him as to how to approach this fight and what his mindset should probably be in this situation? Well, if you think too much about that, it can be a distraction. And I do have certain tips for it, but I don't want to give too much advice, because that's the same advice I'd give Tarver, and I don't want to help him out too much, because Tarver's in the same position where the weight of the world's on his shoulders,

because even if he has a bad showing and wins the fight, it's kind of a loss on Monday morning when he shows up at the gym. You know, like, hey, man, that guy made his debut, and you struggled with him, you know, that could be a very bad day for him, let alone me actually, you know, cleaning his clock, you know. And so, you know, Ben does have a lot of pressure on his shoulders.

And, you know, and the crazy part, is. I mean, hey, Jake Paul, I don't have anything against him. I know a lot of people don't like him as far as a YouTube star coming in boxing, but I'm like, hey, look, he garners the attention, so that's what validates that he's in that ring, and he takes it serious. It isn't like this guy's not training. If he was out partying and drinking and treated this like a, you know, a joke and he was basically making a masquerade of what I love combat sports, then absolutely I would be pitchfork and flames shoulder to shoulder with everybody

else. But the kid trains. He's focused and he's trying to be part of a boxer. And so I have nothing but love for that. I'm like, well, that's what I want everybody to do. I want everybody to be able to enjoy martial arts and train at different levels, whether it's competing

or not, but I think it makes everybody a better human being. But he doesn't. The guy, kids in shape. He's trying to improve his skill level. You know, I mean, there's a reason why some people are worried for asking him because this kid is actually putting in the work. So I have a lot of respect for him for that. The fact that his avenue in was that he was a YouTube star, well, hey, man, all the more power to him that he found a way to be popular and make money. And, you know,

I think a lot of people just hate him because they wish they could have done that. You know what I mean? Like, you know, the guys would be like, man, I wish I could just make videos and become a millionaire. He did. He pulled it off. And so, and on top of that, it brings a lot of, there's a lot of young kids right now at home, who especially because of what just happened with COVID, already they were sitting playing too many video games, you know, watching too much TV, you know, we have an obesity problem in this, you know, in this country already as it is. And now we just took a year off where kids weren't allowed to go to school and homeschooling and zooming and whatnot. And that this was a complete, you know, travesty, you know, kids just, most children don't do well into those

circumstances. And if they're fans of Jake Paul and they're watching him go out there who doesn't need the money, he's already set for life, go out there and put it on the line and dedicate himself to something that is hard, hard like, you know, combat sports are, I think he's going to inspire a lot of the younger generation. And how is that a bad thing? So you're what, you're going to a bunch of kids signing up at boxing gyms and wrestling and MMA? Hey man, that's a win. That's actually a interesting way to look at it. And I agree with you that Jake Paul, you know, he is who he is, but at the same time, he is taking it very seriously and you can't fault him for that. As far as you go, I mean, the goal for you no matter what you do is to win. Like, it always is. Other than that,

from like a boxer and a fighter perspective, like outside of just getting the win, what are you hoping to accomplish on April 17th against a guy like Antonio Tarver? Well, I just want to make a good showing of myself. First and foremost, you know, like, you know, look, I'm an example to my children. And my children are smart. And they're phenomenal human beings. I mean, if you watch my Instagram, you can see the things that are already doing, they're unbelievable. You know, my daughter and my sons. And so I'm an example of them.

So when I walk out into that ring, my daughter's going to be in my corner. I want to make sure that when I walk out of that ring, my daughter is proud that I'm her father. You know what I mean? Regardless of how that fight ends, I'm walking out of there with pride. You know, and hopefully that means me putting my fist through a talk. of his ribs and he gets carried out on a stretcher. But if it comes out with an L, he's still body leaving in a stretcher. You know, I might get out pointed, but I'm making sure that everybody knows I was there. You mentioned your daughter, Bella. She had herself quite the 2020. She made

her pro-MMA debut, had a hard-fought decision in her first fight, came back less than two months later and got a submission in just under two minutes. It was a short night at the office for Bella. and you and Bella joined me. We spoke right before her debut, and you talked about how nervous you were heading into that fight as her dad and as her corner. But what was it like, you know,

seeing her battle in that first fight, kind of overcoming that adversity and then bouncing right back with the stoppage in the second fight? I couldn't have written it any better for her because I think if those fights had been reversed, if she would have had the first fight and choked a girl out very fast,

I would have been more nervous about the next one. But the fact that her first opponent put up such a battle, that girl did not want to lose. She showed up and brought her A game, you know, and really, you know, showed a lot of heart. It was just that there was a difference in skill and ability, you know. And so there's no real loss in face over that, you know, there's people that are just better than you. But, you know, that put Bella in deep waters, that girl fought hard.

It tested Bella's resolve. And Bella showed what no one else could really know. You know, everybody can see that she's strong and fast and extremely skilled and technical. but that toughness to fight through adversity, there's only one way to find out. You can't find out in the gym. I don't care how hard you make a practice, it ain't real. You know what I mean?

You can make it as close to as possible, and we think we know, but you don't know until people are screaming and the lights and cameras are wrong, do we really see what you're really made out of? And Bella proved that she's really made out of something special. Yeah, because she got cracked right off the bat and took it like a champion.

And for you, you were like, who, you're probably sweating some bullets over there after that first shot. Let me check that box. How are you guys sort of mapping out her 2021 in that sense? Well, right now, Bella, really, she loves wrestling and folks style in high school. So she's a junior right now. So she's focused on wrestling. And, you know, Nationals is in two weeks.

Even right now, she was like, oh, later after I get done with wrestling practice, I'm going to go to Jiu-Zitsu. And she was supposed to go do pads in the morning. I'm like, hey, you know what? You got two more weeks for nationals. Just be a wrestler. You know, just focus on that. You know, you're only going to have two more shots at this. you have in two weeks and then your senior year.

You know, I think a lot of people, you know, everybody's pushing and MMA and being the UFC right now. And I'm all, eh, let's wait. You know, there's a very important lesson to, you know, a story in this is, and there's one name I was, I just keep telling everybody, hey, Vasily Lomachenko is one of the greatest boxers to ever live. 396 and one as an amateur, gold medalist, you know,

Olympian, phenomenal fighter. He took on too much too soon. Turns pro, his first fight against Salito, the champion down there in Texas, he loses a really hard-fought decision. He maybe would have waited one or two fights. That fight doesn't cut in and an L. I don't want that to be Bella. I don't want us to push her so fast too soon that she loses a fight or, you know, takes an L that wasn't necessary. That now some girl who's on their way out, basically like Salito and Lomachenko,

you know, like gets a win over Bella, gets to retire. Bella goes on to have this Hall of Fame career. And now this girl gets to sit home. Will I beat her? I'm like, yeah, you beat her because we prematurely ran into that situation. Give us another two years and she chokes you unconscious. So I'm going to make sure that, you know, hey, look, it's my daughter. I'm going to err on the side of caution.

Last thing, we found it on Saturday. Some unfortunate news, the passing of Marvin Hagler at the age of 66, one of the most exciting fighters of all time. And, you know, it's funny, I grew up in the Boston area, and my father used to tell me that in the 70s and early 80s, and I think the great comments for the Boston Globe, Bob Ryan spoke about this on Saturday, too. In Boston, it was the Red Sox, the Bruins, the Celtics, the Patriots, and Marvin Hagler was in essence the fifth major sports team in Boston because he had so many fights at the Boston Guard. And, like, a lot of his, the beginning of his pro career happened at the Boston Guard. He was so respected. And, of course, you know, everyone remembers the classic battle with Tommy Hearns, the fights with Sugar Ray and Roberta

Durant, one of the all-time greats. How will you remember marvelous Marvin Hagler as a boxing fan? You know what? I just think that the one thing about Hagler was his tenacity. You know, I mean, obviously, I mean, look, he was a skilled fighter, but even if you watch that fight with Hearns, if you watch that one round, and it goes down as though, you know, one-the-one-round, you know, fights greatest rounds of boxing, and I have a hard time being able to disagree with you. Anybody thinks otherwise. Hearns hits hard, and you can see that he was landing hard shots. You know, Hearns has a phenomenal right hand, you know, power, both hands.

And Hagler made a decision he was going to move forward, move through that, you know, and just inflict damage. And, you know, that mental toughness, that gut check, that ability that, you know, that something in front of you is just pure pain. And you're going to drive into it and fight hard and break it down. that blows my mind. That just shows. That's something I think every human being from any skill level, any kind of genetic background you would think you have, that's something you can learn from,

that Hagler, he wasn't the more powerful puncher in that fight. Hearns was the better athlete, the more powerful puncher, and he demolished him. He came forward. That work rate that they both had in the first round was unreal, and he just kept it up, kept it going, and just broke him down.

Just unbelievable stuff. If you haven't seen that around, do yourself a favor. Finish this interview. and go watch that route. It's absolutely ridiculous. But well said, Frank. I mean, your boxing story gets underway.

April 17th, you guys watching, Triller presents the event. You watch on a fight TV, pay-per-view platforms. This is 10 rounds, right? You and Antonio? Yeah. Yeah, I think that, I mean, you know,

it's smart on their part. I'm obviously the B-side. You know, they chose to make it, you know, 10 rounds because, you know, a four-round fight would be even more dangerous with the guy of my size and my explosiveness. You know, then I'll, I mean, then I could throw caution to the win

and just keep a high ball. 10 rounds, I'm going to have to be more cautious about gassing myself out. No matter how good a shape you're in, you could still make yourself really tired if you push too hard of the pace too soon, if you go out of your comfort zone or push past your rhythm. And so it brings more strategy into it, which weighs into his favor again. Well, I'm looking forward to it. This is a really big deal. I think this is awesome.

And wish you all the best of the fight, Frank, and the rest of the camp, man. Thank you for the time. and I learn a lot every time I speak with you. So thank you very much. Thank you, Matt, so much. Appreciate it. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.