MMA Fighting - What the Heck: Episode 52 | Demetrious Johnson, Michael Chiesa, John Gooden and Laura Sanchez

Episode Date: March 30, 2021

This week on What the Heck, MMA Fighting's Mike Heck (7:10) chats with UFC commentator John Gooden to recap the major storylines from UFC 260, Francis Ngannou capturing the heavyweight title, his Keeping the Lights On fundraiser to help out gyms in the U.K. that have experienced hardships during the COVID-19 pandemic, and more. Demetrious Johnson (42:53) previews his flyweight title fight against Adriano Moraes April 7 at ONE on TNT 1, thoughts on Aljamain Sterling becoming UFC bantamweight champion, and why he's picking Jake Paul to beat Ben Askren April 17. Michael Chiesa (1:07:58) discusses the fallout of UFC 260, Ngannou's performance, what Stipe Miocic could've done differently, how Jon Jones has handled getting what he wants to challenge the new heavyweight champion, Vicente Luque's big win over Tyron Woodley, and more. Finally, Laura Sanchez (1:29:53) previews her 2021 season for the PFL and her season opening matchup May 6 against Genah Fabian at PFL 3. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Now here is your host, Mike Heck. What the heck? Well, hello there, everybody. Welcome to a brand new edition of What the Heck here on MMA Fighting. Hope you're all having a great start to the week. Of course, UFC 260 went down on Saturday night. We've been talking a lot about it since Francis and Gano. became the heavyweight champion of the world,

knocking out Steepi Mietchich in the second round in Las Vegas. And we're going to continue to talk about it on the program this week, some different perspectives on the festivities. And on top of that, as you may have seen by now, John Jones has been tweeting up a storm, the fight between France and Gano and John Jones. In my opinion, is the biggest fight that could be made right now. We knew it wouldn't be easy to get there.

So far, it hasn't been easy to get there. I know it's only been two or three days since the event happened, but hopefully, hopefully we can get this thing done for the summertime since that's when Francis wants to rock and roll. But congratulations to Franz Nganu. His coach is Dewey Cooper and Eric Nixick. Just amazing. All of his countrymen, all the fans of France and Gano have been waiting for this moment.

Just incredible stuff, incredible performance, inspirational story for sure. and it couldn't happen to a better guy. One of the nice guys in the sport, of course, Steep A, one of the great individuals in our sport as well. And it was a great fight. It was an interesting fight. It had a lot of questions heading

in. France and Ghana answered all the questions. And we're going to have more on UFC 260. That fight in particular coming up in a matter of moments as a matter of fact. Please forgive me. One for my voice. I've been talking a lot over the last several days.

allergies in the air. The New England weather has been absolutely ridiculous. It's like 78 degrees last Thursday. 68 degrees on Friday. I actually played golf Saturday morning without a jacket on. And then Sunday, rain, cold, woke up this morning, went to the gym like 5.30 in the morning. Snowing. It was snowing.

Could not believe it. But that is New England for you. And because of that, eats me up weather-wise. Plus my wife and my son are upstairs trying to sleep. So I don't want to wake him up because I don't want to get yelled that. But that's that. That's why I'm talking a little bit lower. But no UFC this week.

They'll be back on April 10th. The card headline by Darren Till versus Martin Vittori. It's the second UFC event on ABC. That's a big fight. That's a big event as well. But Bellator is back for the first time this year. On Friday, Bellator 255. We got Patricio Pitbull versus Emmanuel Sanchez for the

featherway title as the main event it's also the last semi-final bout for the featherway grand prix and the winner of that fight will go on to defend their title against a j mckee in the finals chance at a million bucks a lot on the line in that main event plus we get neiman gracy versus jason jackson that will actually be the co-main event the bellator debut of usman normaga made off versus mike hamill uh kana watanabe is on that card fighting out Alejandro Lara, Tyrol Fortune was supposed to fight. Matt Mitrione, as we confirmed earlier on Monday, Matt Mitrione is out of the fight.

The rematch between Tarot Fortune and Jack May will go on in its place. And it's on Showtime. So that's huge. So there you go. For those that are still hankering for MMA, even though the UFC's not on, he got Bellator. And that's exciting. But right now, as far as this show goes, let us run down the lineup.

And we'll get to our first guests. We're going to wrap things up with Laura Sanchez. We mentioned Bellator coming back this week. The PFL will be back at it very soon as well. Laura Sanchez, part of the PFL women's lightweight roster, a touted prospect out of Rufus sport with Duke Rufus. I know she's trained a lot with Anthony Pettus. He's had a lot of great things to say about her Sergio Pettis as well.

Laura's actually a former Division I and professional basketball player. She got a really interesting story about how, She got into MMA and got to this point. She kicks off her season. May 6th, PFL3 in Atlantic City against Jenna Fabian. She will join us to wrap things up later on. Michael Kiesa will be back on the show, fresh off the airplane, literally fresh off the airplane, got in the car, jumped on Skype, made this happen, super busy guy, just called LFA 103 in Oklahoma on Friday.

Wanted to get his thoughts on Francis and Gano's big win, John Jones, and most of the same. notably since it's in his division, the big win for Vicente Lucke over Tyron Woodley in the co-main event of UFC 260 on Saturday. We'll talk to the Maverick a little bit later on. Got the former UFC Flyway champion Demetrius Johnson back on the program coming up in around 25 minutes or so. He is a fight on the books next Thursday, April 7th. He will challenge Adriana Marais for the one championship flyway title at 1 on TNT1. This is a very big deal for one. Getting on TNT, getting on a good time slot for the United States audience.

This is massive. And it's always great catching up with DJ getting his first fight since 2019. We'll cover the fight and a whole lot more. Always great catching up with DJ. But first, let us talk UFC 260 with a man that I have a lot of respect for in this industry. And just a quick story. And I'm actually kind of mad at myself that I forgot about this story. But I was just looking back.

at some like old DMs earlier today. And I remembered this. When I was first starting to get going with the MMA interviews, it's probably like six, seven months into this thing. When I started really getting going, I interviewed Corey Anderson for the first time. This is probably in like 2015. I want to say it was after he beat Yombovich.

But it was like one of those interviews where I was like, damn, like this is a really good interview. Like when it was over? because Corey was just on fire. Like it was great. He just was saying so many great things. It really stuck out. And I remember we released it, podcast form,

because we were just audio back then. I was a radio guy. And then like two days later, like out of the blue, I got a DM on Twitter from John Gooden telling me he listened to the interview. He had a lot of really positive things to say. And it was something that gave me a lot of confidence

and reminded me from my radio days that anybody could be listening. at any time. So it's a great lesson. That DM meant a lot. I'm pissed that I forgot all about it while I was talking to the man. But six years later, I'm honored to have John Gooden join me for a chat right here on what the heck. Here it is. All right, with UFC 260 in the books and creating some really interesting post-event conversation, I wanted to keep this thing rolling along. So with that, I'm happy to be joined by one of the great commentators and broadcasters for the UFC. Mr. John Gooden joins the program for the first time. John, how are you, sir?

doing all right. How are you? I'm doing great. It is phenomenal to have you here. A lot to discuss. First of all, the big story from Saturday night. We got a brand new heavyweight champion of the world. John Francis Ngano has climbed the mountaintop. He answered all the questions from UFC 220. He looked sensational. Pitched essentially a perfect game in my eyes. And he knocks out Stepe Mietich in the second round. What a story this is to see him come and get this title, overcome all that adversity. So I was curious, what was your overall assessment? of the new champion's performance against Stevey on Saturday night? Yeah, I can't move away from the journey of where he's come from and reaching the very top in such a short amount of time. You know, it's absolutely crazy to think how long he's been practicing combat sports for, you know, essentially came straight into mixed martial arts, really. Within five years, got his first title shot. we're now five years on from there.

That's utterly ridiculous in many respects. But to answer your question, he answered the questions, right? He showed that he'd evolved. I did an inside the octagon with Walt Harris, who'd been down and trained alongside Francis and was speaking with Eric Nixick about their long-term plan, and it was always about preparing for steep. So every camp that they had,

there was a percentage of it that was tailor towards beating the champion, which is smart. Because, of course, it's not enough that you've got to go and prepare for another terrifyingly powerful human being. You've got eyes on the baddest man on the planet. But that is a very sensible and smart thing to do. And it definitely paid dividends. He looked brilliant.

And, yeah, I was surprised by a few things like the size and weight that he came in at. But in terms of his actual performance, I mean, pretty faultless. I've watched the last 20 or so seconds of that fight probably 50 times by now. And what is crazy is Francis dropped Steepa early in the second. He pounces. Stepe is able to get back up to his feet, lands a big uppercut as Steepa's trying to get some space in between them. And then Steepa lands this really sharp right hand that clearly got and got his attention. It kind of stopped him in his tracks.

And Stepe knew he got his attention, kind of hurt him a little bit, went in to pounce on the opportunity. and Francis just landed a short left hand, and that was the beginning of the end. It's almost unfair, isn't it, John? Even when you put this man in danger, it's just as dangerous to go after him and try to win the fight after that. It's wild, is it not?

Yeah, I put out a video on my own channel, and my reference point was that was the same punch that won Stipei Meich, the UFC Heavyweight Championship against Verdun. He was backing up against Verdun. Verdun was chasing him, and whilst he was retreating, he got a bit of purchase on the canvas, and he had like this hook shot,

and the first time Dan Hardy and I looked at that, he had like a 90-degree angle bend in his arm, and Dan, you know, being very much one of the kings of the hook, he was saying how it was so unique that he was able to generate this kind of power, etc. Verdum couldn't take that punch. I'm not saying it's like a complete piece of tracing paper between the two, but certainly Francis wore it very, very well. And if we listen into what his post-fight comments were,

he said at that point, Stipe was playing into his game plan a little bit, and now they're within those ranges where if Inganu touches you, he puts you out. And what I also liked about his work was how clean it was this time, because the Rosenstrike fight for me looked untimely. And I'm not saying that it needs to be tidy to be effective, but it was very different in the way that he was able to execute against Stipe, just refined a bunch of stuff. Let's talk about everything coming together when it needed to.

I mean, you, I love Stipe Meachich. I've had the pleasure of hanging out with him during fight weeks, like international fight week. I saw him like kicking back with with a few guys, including Matt Tollaway. it was really good just seeing everyone getting along. Fun guy, I mean, a real kind of hero, right? And it's tough to see those guys, especially when they're such big, like physically big human beings. But at the same time, what Francis has done and what this win will mean for his supporters,

his people, I mean, it's just mind-blowing. Yeah, those videos of, you know, people back at his home. hometown watching the fight and even like Israel out of sanya watching it was just so cool to watch man and you know you mentioned flawless and everything francis does is like with pure power like even that sprawl in the first round and honestly like when he sprawled the first thing i thought of was the movie happy gilmore i don't know if you've seen it you probably have at some point but happy makes happy's going up against shooter mcavan in the tour championship but he makes this long putt and then he looks at shooting and goes happy learned to putt uh-oh and francis learns how to stuff a take

down, uh-oh, like as soon as I saw that, I was like, oh boy, this is, uh, this is wild. But seeing a calm, relaxed Francis and Gano with some defensive wrestling now, how do you beat this guy? Yeah, well, time will tell, right? I mean, it's, you start looking at the picture and the guy that I thought might have had his number was, was Curtis. I'm not saying that Curtis doesn't beat him if they fight 10 times. Curtis certainly has that

that style that will give Francis will give anyone problems don't get me wrong but it will give France's problems but Francis has the equalizer with that power and a well-placed uppercut on someone shooting in without the very best setup and it's good night

so it's funny how we I don't think we will see this fight right now but how the Derek Lewis fight might follow on from like Steepay-like we did with the first fight, we'll see. And I don't see that many people calling for either the Lewis fight or the, or the, um, the fight with Stepe. I did a little poll on my Twitter and it was overwhelming for a John Jones fight. Yeah. So, I mean, I'll take it, but it's just funny how we move on so quickly. Yeah. I mean, like you said, steep is one of the great human beings in our sport. Why

they considered the greatest of all time in the heavyweight division. He's certainly, deserves the rematch in the trilogy fight since they're tied at one. But, you know, John, as well as anybody being in the sport for so long, deserves is such a tough word to justify in mixed martial arts. And like you said, John Jones, he's sitting out there waiting, wanting this fight. And to me, this is the biggest fight the UFC can make right now. And I'm incredibly fascinated by heavyweight John Jones and a fight with France and Gano for the heavyweight weight title. Like the negotiations, I'm sure going to hit some speed bumps. It seems like we're already hitting some speed bumps, according to John Jones on Twitter, but they have to get

this done, right? Like, this is the fight to make. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think so. And you say, right now, I mean, tell me about many bigger fights than this. You know, I just, it's fantasy matchmaking that people have been doing since Francis started really generating a bunch of interest. People were starting to ask those questions. And I, and I am interested in, seeing a stressed out John Jones because I don't feel, and this is no disrespect to anyone that he's faced recently, but he's been able to manage the tempo of fights very much to his liking for a long time now. And his voodoo that he has over that 205 pound weight class is just phenomenal. You go up to the heavyweight division and I'm sure even in John's mind, he's not

100% on how he's going to feel when he gets clubbed by a man that walks around it like 263 pounds and can and can throw a shot. And that's not just John. That's not just Francis. I was thinking about this just generally. I mean, they weren't going to give him like a heavyweight newcomer. It's John Jones for crying out now. So he was always going to go right in at the top with individuals that have mad skills.

So, yeah, it's going to be interesting. And I'd love to see how Jones responds because I think for him as a martial artist that's always looking to one up himself, I guess that's one of the reasons why he's going up as well. So it's going to be a fascinating challenge for him. Yeah, that's exactly it. I feel like he's going to be really up for this one. Not saying he wasn't up for Santos and Dominic Reyes and fights like that.

I'm sure he just felt extremely confident he was going to win. those fights, but this one, he knows he's got to mind his peas and cues at all times. That's going to get him out of bed and get him excited. So hopefully we can get this thing done. And we have a lot to talk about in that regard. But let's move to the Walterweight division because Vicente Lucke submits Tyron Woodley in the first round in the co-main event. Tyron showed up ready to rumble. He had Lucay in trouble. Lucay was able to weather the storm. He hurt Tyron badly badly and then put him away. And I figured Tyran Woodley, winner lose would be the story coming out of this fight. but not enough love being shown to Vicente Lucay for the biggest win of his career.

What did you think of that fight? And Lucay finally getting over that hump as a legit contender at 170 pounds. Yeah, I've loved his work for a long time. He's been around a couple of shows that I've done internationally. So I've had the chance to sit down with him and speak to him, learn how intelligent he is. The man speaks three languages, minimum. And he's, yeah, he's just very well thought out very articulate. you know, good looking guy, family man.

Like, what's not to like? Very, very marketable. I mean, I don't know he might be a big star in Latin America. It needs to really cross over for people like you and I to fill those vibrations of whether someone's, you know, really moving the needle. But then the call out for me was a little disappointing in a way. I just feel like this is your opportunity to really stake your claim at the top of that division. know what he was aiming for. And it would be a brilliant fight, violence personified. But

you are, if it wasn't for that Wonderboy fights, he would be right there with Leon Edwards, with one of the most ridiculous windstreaks in the World to Weight Division, in the history of the World to Eight Division. Of course, he did encounters Stephen Thompson. So that moves him down. I'm just trying to give you some, or give the viewers some perspective on where this guy is. And that fight with Wonderboy, it wasn't like a walkover. Like, whenever you see Vicente Lucay, he is, he's a hard fight for anyone. And I do put him in a similar class to Leon Edwards. And it's weird that they kind of met. They just, neither of them, despite their wonderful work, and Lucke is a fight finisher as well, they're just not grabbing the attention of the UFC fans

to the level that I perhaps think that they deserve to. But maybe it's a slow burn, and that doesn't mean that they're not going to get to the top. But I just think that there could have been a more calculated strategic callout on the back of that so that you and I would be sitting here now, like we have done with Francis Inganu, talking about or picking a part of a specific styles matchup that's ahead of Vicente Lucque. Why not call out Leon Edwards? you know, I think that that is the sort of fight that, yeah, I mean, I'm not sure Leon would hate that. Probably going to call me up when he hears me say that, but I'm just putting my Vicente Lucé cap on for a second.

There's so many that you could have called out. And Nick Diaz, sorry, Nick Diaz has a very unique view on who he should be fighting right now. I'm not sure many of the matchmakers share with him, but, you know, he can call, he can call, he can call his shot is his prerogative. I've never thought that Vicente Lucay might be on that list. So we'll see. But let's not take away from the performance. Again, talk about shutting down, like one of the greatest welterweights we've ever seen

step inside the octagon, a reinvigorated Tyron Woodley. And Lucke just had an answer for everything, an answer, a counter, and then took control of the fight on the biggest fight of your UFC. career, you know, bravo. I actually, I saw a lot of people kind of had an issue with the callout. I didn't have a huge issue with it, only because Nate did some media. I know he spoke with the SPN and he talked about, he wants to fight guys on windstreaks that are surging.

That would be fun fights. Like putting Charles Oliveira on that short list for him was kind of surprising to me. So I felt like if you were going to make that call, now is the time to do it because you're winning fights, you're finishing guys, you just put away a former champion. If you're going to do it, I felt like now was the time to do it. Unlikely as it might be, I didn't have a huge issue with the call-out. But had he called out Leon Edwards, I think that would have been a smarter call because they fought before. Leon has a win over him, chance to get it back. That was so long. It was many, many years ago. Yeah. I think that would probably be a better call up. That seems to be a more popular match.

But in terms of calling on Nate, I didn't have a huge problem with it. I understood what he was doing. but you know what I mean? Yeah, I think I echo your point, 100%. I'm just trying to think of how in these very challenging times in a well-to-weight division that is interesting at the top, like not a lot really going on, it's suffering. And you could inject yourself there, make a strategic play, make things a little bit easier for the matchmakers at the UFC,

And all of a sudden, you might, you know, you might leap up again. Wonderboy, like, I don't know. There's a couple there that you could definitely go after again. And I'm sure that he would like to get those fights back. You're in a good position to call those people out now. I just thought that, listen, I would love to see him fight Nate Diaz. I think has a really fun fight. And I'm sure he'll earn a lot of money and he'll get a fantastic name on the back of it.

But right now, I'm weighing up the probability of that happening with your career and your ascension through that division in a time where I think it's primed for someone to go, hey, I'm the new kid here right now, and I'll take on any of you. I've just taken out the former champion. I just think he had leverage, you know, leverage that Leon Edwards sadly didn't get after his fight with Tyron Woodley was, was canceled, you know, this time last year. So it's the kind of opponent that you want to, that you want to springboard from. And yeah, again, don't hate it. Don't love it either. Fair enough. I feel like within that top five, top six region,

definitely in the top five, Leon's probably like the more likely candidate of all of them. So it made a lot of sense. There's Kiesa there. That could, that could work as well. But we'll see what happens there. Walter Wade is just fascinating so many under answered questions. But before that all happened, Sean O'Malley comes back, gets a huge win, got, I guess, a pair of walk-off knockouts, cap it off in the third round against Thomas Almeida. The guy is an incredible prospect at 135 pounds, John. How good was the sugar show on Saturday night? Give me more of that sugar show. Ah, spoonfuls of that sugar show. I love it. I really, really love his fight style. I think it's fantastic. A fast twitch athlete like that, the variety of skills

that he possesses, it's just phenomenal. And then I saw him on quintet, and now I've said that, I've forgotten who it was that he beat, but like world-class grapplers, going out there and beating world-class grapplers in grappling competitions, like the kid is, the kid is brilliant, really is. And he's obviously got that star power. We've seen that now and I don't need to talk to that. But strictly speaking about his technical skills, wow. He is as a skinny power guy, someone who would love, you know, with my old pipe cleaners. I mean, I'm old enough to probably be his dad. So it's not going to happen for me now. But I would always aspire to be able to be as loose and use the kind of weapons that he does very, well. You know, I had a karate background. So like a lot of, a lot of kicks. I love the way that he kicks. He's just so loose, so hard to read. And we, that's, um, that, that look to the side that he does a lot. We see that a lot in soccer actually when you're, you kind of pass the ball and look the other way. But even doing that, us mere mortals, when you switch your glance like that

in a high stress capacity, you have little crystals in your, in your, inner rear that can get upset. If you're also taking kicks and punches to the head and those crystals are not quite set right, I mean, that makes most people nauseous. So, you know, I just think what he does is very, very special, really, really special. He's got everything that it takes to climb to the top. Again, there's certain things I don't like about his approach, like not accepting the Cheeto Vera loss.

but I'm not going to tell him to be any different because he has the kind of mindset and that bulletproof, that cloak that he wears, that mental fortitude that is necessary in this day and age, go to the top, you know, he's got everything that you need, just that he can take it steady. And whoever he steps into face, I just love watching him fight. Speaking of Bannaweights who have made a living off of mindset and movement, It appears as if Dominic Cruz seems to be interested in a in a fight with Sean O'Malley, and that would be a very interesting matchup.

But I know Sean would love to get one back for his friend and his teammate Casey Kenney. I love the matchup. The question I have is is now the time for it. Like I know he had the loss to Cheeto Vera. A lot of people thought that was maybe too big of a step up in competition. Who really knows? I know that ended in a weird way, but she did definitely won the fight. But with Sean being this like must watch TV guy right now, people will watch him fight

anybody, is the time now to maybe entertain a fight with a guy like Dominic Cruz or is maybe still a little too soon. We want to build him up as slowly as possible. He's so young that even if he does take a step back, he can still climb again. You know, mixed martial arts, we're used to losses and he seems to have that mental capability that it's not going to crack him. It's not going to make him hide under a rock. He's already had a challenging career, you know, to get where he is. He's encountered a lot of stuff for his young years,

like in professional fighting. So I think he's well equipped. So if it doesn't go his way, then he's gone up against one of the all-time legends. So, you know, the expectation, all of a sudden the betting lines are very different to when you might see a shore no mallee walk into a fight. So that's a different dynamic for him.

Yeah, go for it. it. Like, I'm unhappy to see that. That is a golden ticket right there. If Dominic Cruz is offering you that opportunity, you can't really pass that up. So I would advise him to take that. And if it doesn't work out, plenty of time to rebuild. Well said. 260 was a fun card. No event this week. Darren Till back next week against, or the week after against Martin Vittoria on ABC, big one at 185 pounds, is it not? Yeah, it's really big for him. And it's kind of been ladened with even more pressure now that you've got the champ saying that he's interested in a fight with you.

You can't help but take notice of that, I think, if you're Darren Till. Because things haven't gone his way. He's been in some, you know, some tough fights. And you're still within reach of the title. And again, I mean, the middleweight division is an interesting one, right? I think Robert Whitaker has caused all kinds of problems by bouncing back the way that he has done, just showing how quality he is and just fending off the rest of the order, but then being so far apart from Adisania, well, on that night, but then when you've got Eugene Baerman and Israel

coming out saying, not interested in that fight, we did what we had to do, not interested in that, and he's gone away and done what he needed to do, but it still looks like they don't want to rerun that city kickboxing. So that does open up opportunities for other people. You know, Jack Comanson not getting the victory as well. We're seeing some other guys creep up now. So it's big stakes for Darren Till. Very tough fights.

Yeah. But if you're in Liverpool right now, you're going to be pushing hard because what lies in waiting, again, making the job easy for the matchmakers. And they do like that. And Darren is a huge star. Really is a huge star in the UK right now. Like he's the guy. So yes, there's a lot of pressure for him coming into this. Absolutely. The other reason I wanted to have you on today, John, was to discuss a tweet I saw earlier today. It is Monday as we record this. It was a video that you'd put out. in regards to MMA gyms in the UK dealing with a lot of hardship because of the pandemic

and they're struggling to make ends meet and it's a pretty awful situation. So you have stepped in and you have created a fundraiser. You can check it out now if you're watching at keeping the lights on.net. So I wanted to give you the floor to expound on that and, you know, kind of talk about how this all came together. Oh, well, thank you very much for, yeah, the opportunity to talk about it. So it's something that I've been working on for a long time, actually, if you go into the fundraiser. I think I may have created it in November, maybe even October. But when I started mentioning to a few people, like some people at the UFC, it started getting a little bit bigger in the thought process. And I thought, if I'm going to do

this, I need to do this right and really think about it. Even though we're coming to the end of these restrictions in the UK, come June, actually when, I mean, not quite June first, but the roadmap is that we're going to be going back to a more open kind of life and we'll be back in gyms, etc. Thank the Lord. But that doesn't discount the fact that businesses are struggling to stay afloat right now and have been for some time. So what it really was over here, and I'm not sure what it's like in North America, but mixed martial arts isn't recognized by the government. So therefore, and like sport for England is a particular. one where it's grassroots.

Without really layering this and getting into a long story, but it's very top down our sport in the UK. We've got the UFC and that kind of underpins everything else because there's not a lot of stuff like growing up. The UFC didn't build blocks. It's been like this big overarching thing, which is very unusual. So we rely on the success of the UFC to keep people understanding what we're going to. mixed martial arts is rather than it being in schools and everyone growing up with it. So all of the

stuff around the UK right now has just been flat and dead. As I said, the governments don't have any backing for it. The jiu-jitsu community comes together, I feel, in these times, and I said to a friend of mine, I've seen a couple of Brazilian jihitsu coaches driving bentley's. I've never seen an MMA coach driving a Bentley in the UK. So there must be something that those guys are doing well and it's different, right? You can get a lot of different age groups in and things of that nature and good luck to them. But I always feel like mixed martial arts is the poor cousin and it doesn't get the help that it needs. We just don't have the infrastructure. So, I mean, what can I do? Like, not a great deal, but I do have a pretty decent contacts list.

So I thought, well, I can just start a GoFund me like there's no harm. in that. I can reach out to businesses. I can reach out to individuals. And also I can maybe get some stuff signed. I'm willing to drive around the country with a few t-shirts and get some UFC fighters to put their signature to it and then I'll auction it off. But I have to say, it was causing me a lot of stress, even that process, right? So one, how do you do the auction? Because I'm not a registered charity. Then some auction sites you need to pay for them and they take a cut. So, well, Like, okay, well, that seems complicated. But then I'm doing it through my own eBay.

People are probably going to have issue with that. But what am I supposed to do? So then I have to be really transparent. And then also I don't want to be the man, the person making the decision on where this money goes to. Like I want as far away from that process as possible. So then that will go to like an online poll where I will just let everyone know. Look, go and read like a summary of.

the story of why this gym is looking to get that funding or why they've been nominated. And hopefully we'll have a few. And then we can have like a vote here type list. And then the numbers will come together and the winner will get this cash injection. I'm just trying to do something, Mike. You know, it's so tough. And I just think if I can leverage anything, it's my contacts list like you, very kindly picked up on this and you've given me the platform.

So hopefully someone who listens to this either decides that they'll put whatever it costs for a cup of coffee into the GoFundMe or indeed they might be a business where they say, well, look, I can offer something like if they're in our space, a piece of kit, even if it's something else like an experience or I'm going to call up Bruce Buffers, if he can throw me one of those cameos that he enjoys doing. anything like that which might have a value to someone, I can auction it off and then that money can go in the pot. And listen, if we get multiple thousands of pounds on the back of this, I'd love to just cut that money in half and maybe help two gyms. So, you know, fingers crossed, it's been a bit of a slow start, but I'm going to try and keep hammering this over, well, you know, through the spring. And hopefully we'll get a good pot of money that will go to a good use because I for one have suffered through not being able to attend my own gym. We're going to have a bit of a black hole, I think, maybe next year where there's not

talent. Amateurs are having to go out and get jobs. Pros are stepping away from the sports. They've got to provide for their family. It's really, really damn tough. And you need the gym there to support everything. Giving the money to a fighter is one person. but a gym is the home.

There's a tribe of people there, and that's what we need to protect. Yeah, and it's one thing about this community in MMA and combat sports. It could be a little rough at times, especially around the edges. It could be a little bit negative, but I feel like when something needs to be done or get done, especially at this level, people seem to come together and come through in a big way as a collective. Like it's a pretty cool thing when these things come together. who knows, like, I don't know if you fall like bars to sports at all, but they're doing like the bar stool

fund with like the different restaurants and bars and stuff. Like this could be like the MMA gym equivalent of that. That would be an amazing thing. Hey, listen, I'd love to think that I could establish something now. I'm always a dreamer. I always have these high hopes, but I'd love to have like a fund in place for UK mixed martial arts or even, you know, or mixed martial arts because we're so young.

and this generation of fighters will age, and even the ones that have gone before that we saw down like UFC 38, like the representation we had back then, if some of those guys need a surgery done in the future, and we are in the process of creating a pot that can be apportioned out to these kind of things, like wouldn't that be great?

I just feel like we almost have to own that process at the moment whilst we don't have that government backing. I know that there are people doing really good work with the English Mixed Martial Arts Federation and IMAP are doing good stuff as well. But that shouldn't stop me from trying to do something at the same time. And hopefully then we can join all of these pieces up

if we're all starting a few fires around the place and together we'll be stronger. Love this, love everything about it. Again, keeping the lights on.net. Go check that out. nominated Jim. I had a t-shirt designed as well. So, a little story about this.

I am not narcissistic enough to put a call that I had on a, well, apparently I am actually, on a t-shirt. But someone messaged me after Joaquin Buckley's knockout and said, oh, real-life ninja stuff, you should put that on a t-shirt. And I was like, no, thank you. It was a bit of a cheesy call, not for me. And now, as I said, I was kind of thinking about this guy. fund me at the time. I thought, you know what? I could probably do something where I'll

put some of the money from this t-shirt. So 20% of the price of the t-shirt will go into the pot. So every t-shirt that I sell. Now, the guy, Reese Stoker, a guy I trained with, he made that design. We came together and did that. I spoke to Joaquin Buckley's management about that, to see if he was cool with it. So I'll be getting a couple over to him. But yeah, I've done that. And I've also gone to another artist in mixed martial arts, Adam Osborne, and he's drawn me up another T-shirt celebrating Anderson Silver's knockout of Vitor Belfort, which I'm really excited to get put on a T-shirt as well. You know, same deal. I'm going to put that 20% into this pot as well. So I'm trying to leverage a couple of different things here. And with that, I'm going to keep this,

I'm enjoying this brand thing with the clothing. So I'm going to keep that going. And I might try and figure out a way that we can, again, just feed into some great big pot. I say tiny little pot that we hopefully get to be a great big pot as time goes on. This is amazing. Again, it's keeping the lights on dot net. One last thing, you got to chat with the newest member of the UFC roster earlier today. Patty Pimblet, he finally gets the call. He's made it to the dance.

For those who are not aware of young Patty the Batty from his Cage Warriors experience and and some of those phenomenal performances just had one recently, what can fans expect from him when he makes that walk to the Octagon for the first time? Oh, he's got some attitude. He's got some attitude. You know, people are going to start making comparisons to Darren Till because they're both from Liverpool. So you're going to recognize the accent.

Some of you may not be able to interpret the accent very well, but let me tell you he has a legion of fans. When he's headlined, and actually, whenever he's fought on K. Warriors, he's brought, you know, coach loads of people that make great big noise and his walkouts are sensational. So if you ever go and watch him fight, don't skip to the fight action. Take in the whole experience because it really is with Paddy. You'll see he's got his signature haircut, long hair, blonde locks, looked super young. If you were looking at him, like if you crossed

him in the street, you'd never expect it. You'd think he was a music student or an art student, something of that nature. But then when he's walking to the octagon, he has a lot of fun, but he never takes his eye off of his opponent. He burns holes through their eye sockets whilst he gets there. He's very intense in those moments, and he's got skills. Typically, we've sort of celebrated his grappling and the way that he's been able to finish fights with submissions.

But he's in his last fight that he just had showed his hands are getting really good as well, physically getting stronger. So yeah, he took some time. He had two previous offers from the UFC. He finally accepted them this time. Seems like a smart call. And I'm excited to see how he performs against all of these guys. He's making big predictions already. He can see it's a main event fight. So you know, high aspirations. But I like it. I like that ambition. So let's see. There you go. You are the man, John. Thank you for the time. Again, that link to support the fundraiser to help gyms in the UK, to nominate a gym to get some much-needed help and relief. Keeping the lights on.net is the place to go for all that. All the best of you,

John, with this endeavor. Appreciate the time and can't wait to see you all into these broadcasts once things start opening it up again. I very much appreciate it. And listen, thank you so much for giving me a platform to do. I didn't reach out to you to do this. You hit me up. So thank you very much. That means a great deal. Really does. Thank you. Great stuff right there from John Gooden. What a guy. I absolutely love what he's doing to try and help the gyms in the United Kingdom. Support him and this cause, if you can. Really appreciate him coming on the show. Jump on John Gooden's Twitter for more information. He left a great video and that's what kind of inspired this conversation to even happen. We threw in some 260 talk as well. But let's move ahead to one of the all-time greats, pound for pound in the history of our great sport. Back in action, a shot at another title to add to, his collection of many titles on April 7th, one championship, one on TNT One. Let us welcome back, Demetrius Johnson. All right, happy to join once again by the former longtime UFC Flyway Champion.

He's back in action for the first time since October of 2019. He's got to take on Adriana Marais for the one flyway title at the Promotions inaugural event on TNT. Coming up on April 7th, less than two weeks away from the return of DJ. Good to see you, man. How are you? No good. It feels good to be back. Absolutely, yeah. This is a big deal, man. Not just because, like you just said, you have a fight on the books for the first time in a while.

But TNT, this is probably what you were hoping for when you signed with one, being part of a big card, a big deal like this on an outlet like TNT. Excuse me. This is great stuff, is it not? Absolutely. You know, especially to cater to the American audience. You know, I know a lot of people are used to me fighting on their own time zone, not. late in the morning. So with this, with team, team, one championship were coming together, collaborating, and getting this tight of fight on live television,

it's going to be phenomenal. The last time we spoke, you were just sort of waiting for everything to open up in terms of like travel, even playing the role of teacher for the kids during the homeschooling, kind of controlling what you can control and the future for fighting

was kind of uncertain. Is it like really refreshing for you to have a date and opponent, et cetera, or is there still like a little bit of trepidation with the world being, still in the shape that it's in with the pandemic? Yeah, it feels good, man. It feels good that things are slowly starting to get back to normal.

You know, one championship's been having a lot of fight cards over in Singapore. And Singapore government's been phenomenal working with one championship, given the athletes of green pass. You know, we're doing our best to follow all the COVID protocols. And I'm just happy that things are starting getting slowly back to normal. Back in a title fight for the first time since the Henry Sohudo fight, the second one anyways, you've had some three rounders, but now back to five. rounds back at a title fight at the top of the card is it like kind of a more familiar fresh feeling

prepping for a five round fight was it nice to kind of take it back a little bit to the three rounders since it had been i don't know like six years or so since you had a three round fight uh yeah it was nice going back to the three round fights uh it's nice 15 minutes is literally a sprint for me coming from so many uh title defenses uh but you know i like the five round fights a little more because it gives me time to get settled in and and post my bowl. and my game plan and my conditioning as well. When do you head out to Singapore? I mean, it's Thursday the 25th of March as you record.

When do you actually head out there? I head out there April 1st. So next Thursday. Have you been on a plane since the pandemic shut a lot of the stuff down? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I've traveled to Singapore, travel to California. My wife's traveled to Arizona.

She traveled to Hawaii. So, yeah, I've been trying to still stay busy. You know, the world shut down. but you still got to, you know, bill's still got to get paid, right? I mean, electricity and the water, you know, they're going to shut your shit down regardless if you pay them, well, you need to pay them, whether you have a job or not. So I wanted to try to keep myself busy as possible outside of the cage or ring. And every single time I was able to have the opportunity to travel to have a gig, I took it.

What kind of gigs have you been doing? We just did a shoot with Ubisoft and, oh, what's going to go? Rimo Six Siege. We did a cool thing with Zach Titi, a big YouTube star, also a former professional, a first-person shooter gamer. Went out to Singapore and filmed One Ship, The One Apprentice. And then other than that, I would see the Food Truck Diary. So just been doing a little media interview and some gaming gigs. Yeah, it feels like you get a fight again, right?

Yeah, right. There you go. How do you like the matchup with Adriana? Like, he's been on a great run as of laid. He's held the belt through most of the last, like, five. five years or so, whether it be interim or undisputed. He had the one setback, the split decision loss. I think it was in 2018, but he negated that loss in his most recent fight.

How do you like the matchup? And what have you made of his run as of late? Yeah, he had a great run. You know, like he said, he held it for a long time. He lost the cart, Akwetov, won it back to Karat Akwitav, defended it. Then he lost it to Jayhastakio. And then he won it back from Jayastakio. So now I'm, you know, I'm out to fight him.

So it's a good run. And I like the fight. It's a good fight for me. Very long, big, great grappler of the weight class. And I'm just going out there and do what I do best, and just go out there and fight. Are you enjoying this not cutting to 125 thing? Like, how refreshing has that been?

Yeah, it's refreshing. You know, the guys are a little bit bigger. What do I mean, a little bigger, a little bit taller at this weight class at 135. But it is nice and refreshing. And I'm at the age now where I was like, I don't want to. There's parts of me it's like I don't mind cutting in 125 because there's almost that what's it called? Like can you can you basically dehydrate yourself and put your body at deficit and then make weight and then bounce back and build a performance in a high high

pace performance? I know I can do it and I almost like that that that gamemanship. But as part of me I was like dude you're fucking 34 years old. You don't even be sitting in a tub trying to cut the 125. Screw this. what do you what do you walk around normally at um when i'm training 138 138 so yeah i'll wake up about you know 138.2 and i have a pretty clean healthy diet like if i stop training then my body would get up to like 140 but once i start training and you know working out it just i can't keep weight on like i tried for four weeks prior to camp, I tried to put on some size.

Like I literally calorie surplus, lifting heavy, chest and tries, back and buys, legs. Like, I was literally trying to lift, and I didn't put a fucking pound on. That's insane, man. There are many men who, you know, who would like to be in your shoes to not be able to put on any weight no matter what. It's kind of crazy. But it's interesting because Kevin Haw, I spoke with Kevin Hawn like right before his last fight. and he said he wants to go to 170. And the reason why he wants to go to 170

is because he's never really had the discipline at 185. Like he could basically just do what he wants, live the way he wants, step on a scale and weigh 183 or 184 and 185. There's that discipline that he's kind of missing from his career, which makes him want to go to 170. So is there, was that like kind of a part of a thing with you? Like getting to 125, it's a pain in the ass,

but I mean, you've always been a very disciplined guy, so it's not like that was a thing. that you kind of hurt you along the way you know what I mean yeah I've never missed weight since I've been a child wrestling wrestling in middle school high school or as an adult and being disciplined I've cut eight and a half pounds of one one a day before weigh-ins and we're not there and still went all five rounds so for me I think you know now me being older I am more disciplined in my my diet because I have diet restrictions on from my stomach or whatever, but, you know, me, I'm a disciplined.

This is how I make my money. So why would I want to be disciplined? Exactly. So, yeah, I was just kind of curious if, like, I mean, obviously it helps you that you don't have to cut that extra weight, but sometimes, like, fighters, like, I only, I want to go down a weight class because it keeps me disciplined. It keeps, like, gives you that extra, extra session in the gym or extra run on the road. You know what I mean?

Yeah, I feel like when I hear most athletes who want to cut down to a little weight class, they want to have the size advantage, they want to fight guys through the same, not have to do with bigger athletes. And I totally understand now, like when you fight someone who's bigger than you, like when I fought Donald Cruz, he's fucking big, huge. And so there's that size discrepancy that you're dealing with. For Kevin Holley, you know, he's a big, he's tall, long, and lanky. So maybe for him, maybe he'll see more of, he wants to be more disciplined with himself.

So I can see him using that as a motivation to get him down to 170 and to be more disciplined. in terms of what you got looking to look forward to on april seventh what sorts of challenges does adriana presents that like the competitive side of you is like man like i'm excited for this test like this is the best part of his game i'm excited to try to shut it down yeah i mean he's very good about uh his fighting style is a little bit different he's a big big athlete for the weight division uh great grapple likes to get on your back why so i got the body triangle um and i know in the past my fights when I fought, touched me to Wada, another big athlete, got the body triangle, took me for, I think, like, three minutes to get them long-ass legs untagled from my body. So, you know, I'm not going to go out there and just oppose my will. I don't think he's ever fought an athlete like me. I think he's fought, you know, great, great one-discipline athletes, you know, with Cairo Tau. He's pretty good at the wrestling and stand-up.

And then Jay Hesakio is pretty good to strike him, but I feel the one thing that I do better and then both those guys is push the pace and mix it up very, very well. Like, I'm not scared. I've been in trouble with my fights and I've been down and I'm not scared to go out there and fight. You know what I mean?

So how do we get this thing done? Like, obviously, winning is the most important thing to you at this point, but you've been doing this a long time and you've won a lot of fights, but what are you hoping, like, the headline reads? Like, what will the story say when it's all sent and done on April 7? What's the goal for you outside of just getting the win

and getting another title? Honestly, just going out there and just, blowing the bricks off and put on a spectacular performance and coming out healthy, right? Like that's my biggest thing is coming out healthy. You know, I've gone to war before and come out and been thrashed and, you know, can't, you know, ask myself, why the fuck am I doing this? I'm hurting. I can't even do this and this and this.

So that's my biggest thing is I want to come out healthy. So we don't want figurato versus Moreno in there. We want to go in there, do our thing, get out, and be unscathed. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Get in and get out. It's been a weird year in MMA and combat sports. So I wanted to get your take on a couple of things. If I could, like first off, the different rules that, like, you've obviously been in the UFC.

And we've seen it, this has been a year with like, we've seen DQs and no contests and illegal strikes and eye pokes and all sorts of craziness. Like the one thing that obviously sticks out is the ending of the Sterling Peotor-Yon fight where Aljo, you know, wins by DQ and becomes the champion. So I'm curious, like fighting from the UFC going over to one, rule sets are different depending on where you go, like even from state to state. What are your thoughts on that whole situation, the strike, just the rules, et cetera. Yeah, obviously rules are putting in place to keep the athletes safe, whatnot, right?

And I dealt with the exact same thing in 2013, Chicago, UFC, a Foxx against John Dotson. I had him say, Kate, you put his hand in the ground. I did not take the time to look to see that. his hand was on the ground. And it's not my job to make sure to take a look to see if his hand was on the ground. In my opinion, he was in a position, a knowledgeable position that he can defend himself. But I blast him in the face.

John McCarthy stopped the fight and said, hey, dude, he was a down. I'm like, what the fuck he mean he's down? His finger's touching the ground. He's not down. Right? So I've already gone through this before in this organization in the UFC when I fought John Dodson. So to see, you know, that same thing happened.

the Aljima Sterling versus PDRN. One, a big fan of Algebra Stirlman, have nothing against the guy. Each time I give my personal opinion, not that anybody asks about my personal opinion, what you just did. But when I said that on Twitter, I like to play a neutral,

as a neutral person, right? Like if I was, if I had friends over at my house and they say, why did he get blasts? Well, they know why he got blasted in the knee because he's on his fucking knees and the guy is still trying to fight.

He's trying to throw a knee on the head. But if I have friends in the house, And they were like, why did he get decued? And I'm like, well, it's a rule that he was on the ground. He's a down opponent. And they're like, yeah, he's down, but he's defending. He can clearly defend himself, right? Do I think it's a rule that needs to be changed?

I think so. I think it's going to help the fight progress. It's also going to keep people moving. The biggest thing that my coach tells me is that why should an athlete go to his knees and touch the ground, dictate what I can't do? Like, think about that. And when my coach trains me and tells me to have that mindset, it makes sense, right? Like, if I'm getting beat up in a fight and I put my hands and knees on the ground,

you have to stop your on. You have to rethink the way you're going to go about, like, trying to proceed with the fight. That makes sense. So that's what my mindset was when I was watching that fight, because the fight was starting to go in Peter Gron's favor, right? I felt Peter on was slowly picking him apart, you know. And Adler started had his good shots in there. But once he went down his knees and he was holding his hands, that's a problem.

If he was, he was holding his hands out of his knees like praying. And he got blasted. And he's like, oh. And I was like, I was like, one, Peter Ron, I was like, you, look, when it happened, I was like, Peter on, you fucking idiot. I was like, oh, I was like, you're finally one in the fight. And then you throw this knee and get disqualified. And then I'm like, and then it's just like a wrestling.

back in the rest of the days when people get penned the first thing your coach says and you goes you shouldn't have been in the first place right that's that's the rest of mentality like if you get if you get crailed stacked or anything like that your ghost says you should have been in the first place so that was like my opinion i was like adjima you're way better than that why are you putting yourself in that in that position so yeah i think the rule should be changed i think it'll be good for the sport i think it'll open up a lot more things um and i think people won't use that position as a safety as like I'm going to use this because I'm safe, right? And those aren't my words. Those are his words. They'd be exact. I remember Sutherland who came on here, not on here. He said it. He goes, you know, I was in a safe position.

When he said, I was like, you're in a fucking fight. You're never in a safe position. You shouldn't think that I'm safe here, right? So, but yeah. He's, I mean, saying some of the things he said, I mean, he's taken a bit of a beating with how things have been handled since becoming the champion. Like, he doesn't write the rules. It's not his fault.

He's the champion. now and he shouldn't have been and he shouldn't have been put in the position to make that decision anyways you know what i mean like in the fight like the referee the doctors like they should be making the decision it shouldn't be on aljo to decide can i fight anymore can i not fight anymore like you should be able to look at him and say dude can't fight anymore like he looks out to lunch take it out of his hands do you agree with that i think i think you should let the athlete dictate that right because the only athlete knows best right i mean think about that that knee imagine if he hit him with a flying knee, just saying a flying knee, right?

And he got hit with a flying knee and he's able to recover, right? If he got here with a flying knee and let's say he got blasted flush and then he shoots down for a take down, he takes a couple more strikes and he's able to recover and keep continue to fight, but he gets blasted up a knee on the ground and still a good knee and he has five minutes to like sit down, drink some water, how are you feeling? You're feeling okay? Okay, shake it off. All right, you feel like you're ready to, you feel like you still can continue.

Because don't get wrong. Yes, you might have got concussion, but fuck, what do we not get a concussions when we fight? Right? I mean, so, I mean, I'm not, this is just my opinion. Like, I think if I was in a fight and I got blasted, I think that you give the athlete like, hey, how do you feel? Like, do you feel that you can continue to fight? And you know what? They might say, no, you shouldn't give the athlete the option to continue to fight because, you know, she can be concussed.

and who knows you can go on to get further brain damage, but we're already signing up for that. Like, it's a double-edged sword. Like, do if you do, damn if you don't, right? So it's a hard thing. I mean, a lot of people might look at this interview saying you can't ask a competitor to see if he can continue or not. But, I mean, I don't know.

That's just, I'm just rambling on. That's interesting because just hearing what you said, like, imagine if, like, the referee just stopped the fight and Aljo was like, oh, come on, man. And like, I was fine. I was fine. And then it would be a totally different conversation right now. It would be screw the referee.

Yeah, 1,000%. And like I said, if it was like, if he was down on all four, like gasping for air and about to go on his deathbed and croak over and he got blast with that knee, they're like, yeah, that's fucked up. Like that needs to be stopped. That's definitely a DQ. Obviously, Peter Young got DQed. And I'm sure they're going to run it back. And I'm sure the fight's going to be totally different. but with that whole aspect of what happened in that fight

I felt I didn't feel because I wasn't in there I don't know how Adjima felt but I feel that the rule just needs to be changed in general like I feel like it's going to give a different perspective by people not using that not saying to him not saying he used it for his advantage or his benefit but he was he said that he felt like he was in a safe position when he was on his knees

in front of another man any advice you would pass on to Aljo right now I mean you are the master of UFC title defense after all. So is there already advice you would give young Al Jemaine Sterling right now after that win and how he's, I guess, handled himself with it? No, I just, I think, you know, go back to the drawing board. I mean, I felt like he had the recipe to beat him, right?

It's, you know, Peter John has a very interesting and unique way going about his fights, and I'm a big fan of the way he goes about it. He's willing to absorb, he's willing to absorb punches and shots in order to give his. If you go back and watch that fight, the first two rounds, you know, Aljima is doing a good job

of, like, you know, peppering him, peppering him. But Peter Yon is like, none of that shit hurts. Like, he covers his face a different way. So those couple times where if he would have sat down and just loaded up on a body shot, just really loaded up on it, that could have paid dividends and made Peter Gion do something different.

But yeah, I think just go back, wash the tape, and be ready to have a fight and don't rely on that one takedown to get him down because it's not going to be as easy as, you know, we all thought it would have been, right? That he thought it would. I knew it's going to be hard as shit. But, yeah, I mean, go out there, stay healthy, you know, enjoy it.

I know you've talked about the upcoming fight between your one championship apprentice, castmate Ben Ascran fighting Jake Paul. And I know you're picking Jake Paul to win. If someone handed you money to bet, you're putting it on Jake Paul. Yeah, yeah. Why? Well, let's all be honest.

Ben Askin, I think he will talk about it. Ben Asking hasn't been the best striker in a mixed martial arts. Do I think he'll be the best striker in boxing? I would say I don't think it's going to happen. When I look at how well, you know, Jake Paul moves, he actually has some rhythm to his movement. I think Ben Asking, he's been a world champion mixed martial arts because he can grind on somebody. he can wrestle, he can take people out of their element. But when it's boxing and you're in that one element,

it's very hard to get somebody out of their element. Yes, he's going to smothering him. He's going to do his dirty box and whatever. But yes, I know Jake Paul is a YouTube star, but he's training just as hard as any a world champion is, right? He has unlimited access to the best trainers in the world. He has the funding, not saying been asking, doesn't, But anytime you fight somebody who has training, some former trainee, there's always that chance.

I'm not discounting Ben Asking out of this fight. Ben Asking can absolutely win his fight. But if somebody came to me and said, Demi Strontz and here's a million dollars, who are you going to bet your money on? You have to fucking bet. Here's a million dollars. You have to bet. If you don't bet, I'm taking a million dollars away from you. I'm like, well, fuck, I'm throwing on Jake Paul.

I think he's going to win the fight. I mean, if I don't bet, I'm going to lose it anyway, so I'm going to go ahead and bet on Jake Paul. And then I want Ben asking him. I mean, I hope he wins, right? Because he comes from my line of sport, a wrestler, taking on a YouTube star. But, you know, when I look at it and I'm like, dude, like Jake Paul actually has knockout power. Like, Ben asked him, you've been knocked out before, so it's not like he can't happen again. I think Ben is as gutsy as it gets because in a way,

he is like the weight of the world on his shoulders because it's a risky fight against a guy that a lot of people don't like and he's forever going to be etched in the in the world because of the mazadol knockout but he handled that so well so it's almost like he got fans because of it but the whole mma community they're like homer simpson and he's like bart simpson getting ready for a hockey game it's like dude if you lose you're out of the family do it for us do it for mma ben like i don't foresee you being in a situation like this anytime soon where you're like i'm going to fight this youtube guy in a boxing match but how would you sort of handle all of this if you were Ben Ascran? Just like he is. At the end of day, people got to realize that we're all human, right? And we all have feelings and we all have goals. You all have, we always want to put on the show for everybody. But Ben Asking still goes

out there and gets knocked, knocked out and get the bricks beat off him. I'm going to treat him the same way as if he won that fight, right? I think Ben Ascran is an amazing human being. He's very creative. He's hilarious. Big fan of his Twitter feed and how he just goes on there and talks so

much stuff. So yeah, I think he's going to go out there, give it a hell of a time. And he's going to be, like I said, if he goes out there and wins, I wouldn't be, I'll be, I'm not going to, I'm actually going to be surprised to go to their win. But I'm happy he still has the ability to go out and do this, right? He's going to go out there and make some good money. And everybody he's going to make fun of him, he's going to be going to cash and check probably Monday, Monday morning. And Danica see him, right? I never forget. Everybody booed him, I think it was somewhere. and he goes, you're going to boo me? You know what?

That's okay. When I'm driving to the bank, Monday morning to cast my chick, you fuckers will all be at work working. And I was like, you're such a gangster for saying. And he goes, this is the truth. He goes, I'm not here fighting my ass off and they're booing me. And I'm like, no, you're right. You're right.

So that's always a good way to look at it, right? I mean, I'll pite take that saying that he said to the grave. Like if something came along for you to jump in the boxing ring with somebody. Like, it doesn't have to be a YouTube guy, but if it was like a legend, the pay was great, like Frank Mayer was going to box Antonio Tarver before the commission didn't clear him. I mean, kind of makes sense, 44-year-old and a 52-year-old boxing. And, you know, just to kind of test yourself and see how you would do in, like, a different combat sport. Like, would you do something like that? And if so, like, who would you want to, like,

do that with? Like, even if it was like a Tyson-Jones, Rocky Balboa Thunderlips, kind of an exhibition kind of a thing, like, what would you want to do? You know, I don't mind Do a kickbox I do a kickbox against Georgia Petrosian Even though we're at a different weight class It would be fun that he has good eyes And I'm sure I'll be curious to how he would deal with my speed

What do you think of Gordon Ryan sign with one? That's good I haven't been a big I don't want to say big fan I haven't been a I don't follow the grappling scene Right? Because it's one element of

Of combat sport But he comes into a great squad were you a pro wrestling guy growing up at all I was back in the the wolf pack and DX days and the Rock and Stone Coasey of Austin those were glory days but the new stuff now

not too much So if like Because obviously you're going to be One's going to be following AEW on Wednesday nights So like You know what if they kind of Try to lure you into the wrestling world Would that be of any interest to you?

If it was with my boy Austin Creed Yeah I'd do it I like I like those guys Those guys cracked me up I forget the name of the bandit Their group is called But it's a new day Their new day, right?

The new day, the new day, yeah, them boys I'll fuck with the new day boys I mess with them Get you a trombone, you can start playing Yep, yeah You serve out pancakes and everything Mighty, mighty cakes How about

Big thank you to Mieter's Johnson For joining the program Always just a ton of insight on his career, a variety of topics going on in the combat sports world. What a guy. Always a pleasure to talk to the UFC title defense king. Speaking of the UFC, let us get another perspective on what happened at UFC 260 on Saturday night in Las Vegas.

Let us welcome in the number six ranked welterweight in the world. Michael Kiesa. All right, everyone's still buzzing about UFC 260 and we're happy to get some time with one of the busiest men in combat sports these days. The man is everywhere. Michael Kiesa back on the show. How's it going, man? Busy is an understatement, but man, it's good to be back talking to you, Mike.

I always like chopping it up, talking to fights. It's always a good time. And I appreciate you still making some time for us little people these days, Michael, with everything going on. But all kidding aside, you were on the broadcast for LFA 103 in Oklahoma, and anytime Spike Carlisle is on a card, you know chaos will ensue as well. First round finish for him. first round finish for Vanessa Domopoulos, Abdul Kareem, El-Sawad. He got a first-round finish as well.

I assume that this was as fun to call for you as it was to watch for me. Oh, man, it was a blast. I mean, the main event was great. And that Dalladorch guy is no joke. You know, he's a big 55er. And Spike went out there and did his thing. You know, Abdul actually fought my teammates. So that was kind of a bummer.

But, I mean, nonetheless, can't take away from it. He had a great performance. And I know how tough my guys in my job. Jim are. So that's, that's, that's his signature win. And, uh, I still think the standout performance, though, is Vanessa Demopoulos. You don't see those kind of chaos at 115 pounds. And she, I mean, she looks sensational. And that's a good way to rebound after that last fight. You know, she's just got this pension for getting in these wars. And, uh, she walked out of there without a scuff on her. So that was, that was a standout performance of the night was Vanessa Demopoulos. But nonetheless,

good fights top to bottom. Absolutely. Another thing that was, that was fun. I would say more terrifying than fun, if we're being honest, was Francis Ngano, who closed the damn show on Saturday night and becomes the heavyweight champion of the world. It was a battle of two of the greatest heavyweights and also two of the very best people in the sport. And in the end, the predator knocks out Steve Mietich to become the champion. He climbs the mountaintop and has the title now. What did you think watching that all play out? Is that how you expected it all to go? I can't say I expected the finish. But, you know, because I still, I give credit where credits do, and I always say that Steepamiochich has one of the highest fight IQs in the sport.

So I can't say I predicted that the outcome of the fight, but I can say that I did see Francis's approach coming from, you know, a mile away. Like it's like he, you know, even, even a lot of people weren't sold on the fact that he was going to come into this fight measured just because his last fight was Rosenstrike. But I knew Francis is going to come into this fight, gun swinging like he did that first fight with Steepen. and not like he did this last fight. So that's the one thing I did expect. It seemed like Sipay was a little bit tentative, just not a lot of volume from the get-go. I'm sure you wanted to wear Francis down a little bit,

but, man, the ending sequence was, I tweeted it. I said it was very Oberim-esque, where Overeign has this ability to, like, throw the right and he'll do this kind of loaded switch jab. And it's almost like Francis took a page out of his former foe's repertoire. far. So, I mean, the finish was nothing shy of stellar. You know, that was an amazing fight, amazing performance. And it's always sad to see a guy like Stepe's rain comes to an end. And I just think that he's, he's one of the most underappreciated champions in the UFC we've

ever had. And, you know, D.C. said it best. I think he's one of those guys we're going to really miss when he's gone. And I hope he's not done yet. We'll see what happens. But nonetheless, that was a hell of a main event. And probably the last one we're going to see at the apex for a while. Probably for a very long time. Last pay-per-view at the Apex for a long time. I don't know what they're doing with the April cards or whatever they're doing going forward, but it sounds like pay-per-views at Apex are done. Yeah.

Get some fans back in the building and go from there. What I found fascinating about Francis's performance, especially like the last 20 seconds of the fight, is that when he dropped Steepa against the cage and Stepey was able to weather that storm, he cracked Francis Ingano. He cracked him with the right hand. And it, like, I wouldn't say stanky leg

but it definitely got his attention got him moving backwards but as soon as Steepay noticed it and try to come in that's when France that's when Francis landed that short left hook and that was the end of the fight man

so it's almost like unfair like you catch him and you try to go in there and try to finish the fight there's nothing you could do no not at all and I mean I was very surprised

when Steve B came running in there like that after that punch you know it's like like as I just said before it's almost like I'm going to contradict myself here, but it's like, I praise the guy for his fight IQ, but that was a, that was a huge tactical error. Like a guy like Francis, you just can't go running in at him. It's like the approach with Francis going forward for every guy is going to have to be, you're just going to have to try to pick him apart, stay on the outside. You cannot get within shooting range with this guy just because whether you hurt him or not, you're just in danger all the time.

And yeah, I was very surprised to see Steve and do that. And I don't know, man. This kind of goes back to kind of the narrative when Stepe fought DC the second time. You know, he just fought DC seven months ago. You know, how compromised was he going into this Francis fight again? It's like kind of the same thing all over again. I know a lot of people don't want to see the third fight, but I just kind of feel like, give Stepe Miotr's a little break.

Let's see what happens. I mean, what theories in the U.S. UFC with champions ends at one and one. I mean, it usually ends with a trilogy. So we'll see what happens, man, but it was, it was a stellar fight nonetheless. I agree. And, you know, you mentioned the steep A trilogy, and I think, I think he deserves that, obviously. There are people who actually think that is the best idea, but we know the fight that the majority of people want. It's in Ghana versus John Jones. And this will not be easy to put together, Michael, as you probably know, nobody thought it would be easy. Jones has already been tweeting up a storm about not getting enough money for a fight of this magnitude and he's not wrong and every fighter should make as much money as possible. I will never ever go against that. He's choosing now to take this stand. He vacated the title. He's been bulking up. He made the decision to go to heavyweight and was going to, he was basically the plan to be next in line to fight the winner for the heavyweight title and getting this done is going to be a big, big challenge. In your opinion, just watching John,

he already made the decision, vacated the title, bulked up. Is he playing this correctly, do you think? Or is he kind of overplaying his hand? He's, no, he's not playing it correct. And I'll tell you why. He's doing the right thing by going up a weight class. I know he's committed to it. I know he's down to fight.

Whoever wins that fight, you can't tell me that he decided to go up to heavyweight and bank on Steepa winning the title. You know what I mean? Nobody, when people say like, he don't want to fight Francis, I'm like, no, you can't say that because why would he commit to going to heavyweight? if he's not willing to fight both guys. John Jones is one of the best in the world. He was fighting killers at 23 years old.

And I think that he likes the challenge of what Francis brings to the table. He knows the risks. But I can understand his stance on wanting to get paid more. That fight, the superfights have eluded us. The greatest super fights that could have ever happened have alluded us throughout our time in the UFC. We never saw GSP Anderson. We never saw Anderson. We never saw GSP Khabib.

We never saw all these great super fights. You've got to pay, especially for this being a heavyweight fight, and it's going to be in a big arena, you've got to pay the man. Where John's going about it wrong is this outcry on social media. Like he knows who to call. You call Hunter Campbell and you get the deal done. You start negotiations that way. You're getting up on the wrong foot by going out on social media.

And I think Dana, Dana being the promoter he is, I think that the comment at the press conference of where he said, oh, if I'm watching, if I'm Jones watching it home, I'm going back down to 85. No, you're being a promoter and you're trying to be like, trying to piss them off. Oh, yeah, watch this. You know what I mean? Trying to try to get him off the edge. So good on Dana to try to upset him because it did, but he's just not getting the effect that he's not getting the effect that he was desiring from that. But that's just what I think Jones is doing wrong. Like, you know who to call. You know what people you got to reach out to make it happen. this outcry on social media

it's not going to get him it's not going to get this deal done you know and I respect his stance on wanting to get paid more this is a you know dude you're fighting Francis and gone or you're going up a weight class this is going to be finally one of the biggest fights we will ever see in the UFC he deserves to be paid he just

this is just the wrong way to go about it I'm cautiously optimistic I feel good about it knocking on wood every day let's make this happen but uh the fight that probably had your attention the most as a top 670 pounder in the world was the co-main event for Sente Lucke versus Tyron Woodley. I feel like I feel like the term crossroad fight has been used way too loosely over the last few months. This was like the definition of a crossroads fight

because you had two guys who desperately needed a win for completely different reasons and it was an amazing fight for the little less than four minutes that it lasted. So Lucke gets a submission in the first round, biggest win of his career. What did you think watching that one play out? dude that was awesome that's the signature win that luke needed i mean they gave him a shot against wonder boy wonder boy wins the fight

and then you know he gets a shot again against a guy like tyron woodley like those are the those type are the types of fights that get guys over the hump like you see when a guy beats a former title challenger or a former champion like those wins are what propel you to the next level and it's not even

i think it's more of a mental thing when you finally get in there and you beat a guy that's held the title and it's been in the position that you're striving to be in. I think you grow levels from that. That was just an awesome fight. Luke is as tough as they come. You know, we'll see what happens with Tyron.

He looked good. It's just, you know, I know that with the contract situation, going out on four straight losses, last fight of his deal, I mean, he looked good. I mean, I wouldn't say he looked bad. He just, like, once again, attack glare. You know, it's, I think that when Tyrant heard him, he could have used shorter punches instead of getting himself overextended.

and maybe it would have been a different result, but, I mean, Luke is showing that he's resilient. He's tough. He's got a granite chin. But that was the signature win that he needed. And we'll see what happens. I mean, he's going to propel up the rankings and rate in the mix. But that was an awesome win, man. That was that fight was four minutes of just pure chaos.

It was awesome. He's won 9 out of 10 now. Like you said, he's on a tear. The one blemish was to Stephen Thompson. The loss before that was to Leon Edwards. So he'll probably, by tomorrow, Tuesday, he'll be the number seven rank guy in the division. So he gets on the microphone, had a name in mind.

And he calls out Nate Diaz. What did you think of the callout? At this point, I think it makes sense. The first time he called out Nate, it was kind of like, you know, kind of doesn't make the most sense. But now it's like, I think Nate, like, it's like, when Dan Hooker had, who did he beat after Paul Felder? He lost somebody.

He lost to Dustin. He lost it. Maybe it was after the Felder fight, Nate tweeted like that he liked Dan Hooker, like out of left field. Like I think that Nate just like he sees the way someone fights and that's what he likes and that's what he wants. And Luke A's style, I think that's the type of fight that Nate would actually, you know, possibly consider. You know what I mean? So it's not, I don't think it's out of the realm of a possibility.

And I think with that type of win, I think it makes more sense. I think that Luke's style appeals to Nate. And it's not that Nate goes out there looking for easy. fights. Nate just wants to get in quality fights. And I think Lucke versus Diaz would be a quality fight. I mean, what else is out there for Nate Diaz right now? You know what I mean? They could do the hooker fight. I mean, that's not a fight

that doesn't make sense. But him and Lucay also makes a lot of sense. And he says that he said that he's not going back down at 55. So, I mean, why not? I mean, that's a fun fight. There's a lot of things you could do with that. So the first time he called out Nate, this time I give it a thumbs up I hope he gets the fight that'd be sick yeah I agree I was talking to John Gooden earlier and he wasn't a big fan of the call and I'm like this is exactly what Nate wants like Nate laid out his criteria of what he looks for for a fight luke's right in that mix like

just like olivera like I didn't think olivera was on Nate's radar and here we are I feel like luke's in the same spot yeah and it's Nate's not waiting for favorable matchups he's like he wants to fight tough guys he wants to get in fun fights he wants to fight guys that will fight him and luke will will fight him be like that's a fact like he will meet him in the middle

and you know I think that'd be a fun stand-up fight and you know both guys have submissions skills that's to me

that's the feather in the cap for luke it's not just the win over woodley it's like to submit a guy like tyron woodley

tyron woodley doesn't even have a neck like that guy is just all traps traps and shoulders with his head is just kind of there he's just kind of like this

and he got it still managed to submit the guy so that's that's impressive in itself so I like the name A. D.S. fight, that'd be a fun one for sure. Is Lucey kind of on your radar right now just because he's probably going to jump up to seven? Like, is that a fight that would interest you at this point?

I really want to crack at a guy in the top five, man. I mean, everybody's on my radar at 170 pounds. You got to be aware. You have to be aware of everybody because I could get booked against a top five guy and somebody can fall out and that could be okay, well, now this is your short notice replacement. So you've got to be aware of the entire landscape at the division, but I feel like I've earned a shot of the top five guy. And I know everybody says like the rankings don't matter and just be active to get signature wins. It's like, yeah, well, this is like a personal goal of mine. Like I already beat a guy in the top five once.

I beat RDA when he was ranked number five. But now I want a shot against another guy in the top five. Like let me get two top five wins. Like I feel like I deserve that. So I'm really, I'm aiming towards the top. And, you know, now that my crazy-ass schedule of March is over gives me time to actually get in the gym with some consistency. You know, I train on the road, but, you know, when you're training at the Grand Hotel in Oklahoma City, it's not the same as when you got a gym full of guys and my weight room at my house and stuff and things like that.

So we'll see what happens, but I'm going for the top five. July is still the time frame? Yeah, I mean, I think so. I mean, I think I'm looking now like my schedule is starting to free up. I'm actually here in Tucson to help my buddy Tyler McGuire train. He's got a fight in one FC number one. contender fight for the title um and april 7th so this is kind of like my catalyst to kind of get the ball rolling again and um yeah i think july you know we'll see what happens in the next couple weeks

we're going to have some discussions we're going to figure something out um but yeah the top five is the goal man i mean whoever it may be just not a really a particular name just somebody in the top five anybody i can list all i can list them all i'm sure you can yeah because i mean it was colby and wonder boy before i mean colby was the top wonder boy boy. And now since we last spoke, we had Usman already defend his title. Gilbert Burns is available. Now Usman's fighting Mazadol. Leon Edwards is now back in the mix. He just fought. You know, there's lots of options. A ton of options. Yeah. And I'm, I'm open to all of them. You know what I mean? I'm open to all of them. I'm not here to pick fights. I just want a guy in the top five.

And, you know, once I get in the gym, see how I feel, then we'll get a real gauge on when I'm going to jump back in there. Because we don't know if it's going to be a main event. We don't know what it's going to be. And if it's a main event, I want more than two and a half weeks notice for the extra two rounds. You know, I'd like to have a 10-week camp for a main event. So, yeah, so just right now for the next couple weeks is getting back in the gym, getting some consistency going and figuring out the next move, man. But a lot of good things to come, man. I'm excited for this year.

This year's, I'm finally getting the year that I wanted last year. So things are going good. Oh, by the way, like probably around a month or so ago, I was doing an interview with the fighter. And he called you out. I spoke with a young man by the name of Ricky Simone, and he had mentioned something about a tag team grappling match for submission undergrad.

It was supposed to be him and his cousin against you and Austin Arnett, and he was waiting for you guys to say yes and sign the contract. And I don't know, I saw Twitter kind of talking about it as well with the memes and everything. What happened there from your perspective? He ducked us. He can't even say that. No, he's, we threw it out there. They're like, we're doing this tag team match.

And I'm like, I was either me or Austin jumped. They're like, hey, we want to do it. And then he sent us a DM like, you guys are too big. I'm like, whatever, that's an excuse. And then now he's saying like, oh, we ducked him. Ricky Simone, you took everything I worked for, motherfucker. I'm grappling your fucking ass. I want you next.

That's my next matchup is Ricky Simone. And then Austin can go against his brother or his cousin, wherever the hell he was. Bring him on. Call jail. Make it happen. Submission Underground 22. Let's go. I dig it.

I dig it. Oh, a couple of things. First off, back to Saturday. What did you think of the performance from your fellow Maverick, Miranda, against Julian Robertson? Stellar. I mean, dude, she's, for having a, for somebody that had a tough cut, she looked freaking good, man. And she, what impressed me the most is for how young she is, she needed, you want to see where these young fighters are and how they handle a little bit of adversity. And she passed that test with flying colors.

She got her back taken, battled through it, got back. and had a great third round pitch to shut out that third round. And, you know, that was, that was the win that she needed. She needed to face a little adversity. And she's big for the weight class. And I think that the ceiling's very high. And I think one thing that might get overlooked a little bit is she has a very high intellect. This is a, I mean, she goes to school at the Old Dominion.

She's like getting some crazy degree. Like she's, uh, she's someone to definitely keep your eyes on. I mean, I think she's a ceiling's very high for her. And that's a nice little shot of life in the flyaway division. I mean, we'll see what happens. Build her up right. She could be a problem for a lot of these females. Yeah, I completely agree.

She's been on my radar for a little while. And I've got that farmer strength. She can be a tough out at 125. And last thing, I got to get your reaction on Topanga's husband, Topanga from Boy Meets World, that's been chose a shrimp guy. Luke Thomas. Luke Thomas is out here. I thought he won't let it go.

He's trying to sabotage this poor woman. I mean, Luke. Let her live, man. Jeez. I can't believe it. I can't believe Luke Thomas would take it that far. You know, Luke, look, man, you won the poll. Just let the woman live her life, dude.

You don't got to go pick it on putting shrimp tails in their cereal. Shame on you, Luke Thomas. Ah, so funny, man. You broke the internet with that whole Topanga is better than Kelly hot take on the internet. Oh, man. And now this happened. It was like, it was so funny, man. It was like a year after, like one year after.

almost to the days. Too perfect. Too perfect. Great stuff from the Maverick Michael Kiesa. One of my favorite guests to have on. Really appreciate him. Jumping on literally off the airplane. Really appreciate that as we get ready to

wrap things up this week on the show in terms of schedules here on M.A. fighting. Got the A side back tomorrow, which is Wednesday, depending on when you listen to this, or watch this. Between the links on Thursday, we get Jose Young's defending the Btel

strap against Jed Mishu. We'll have Bellator coverage on Friday all the post-fight interviews and scrums on our YouTube channel. And then we get a little bit of a breather on Saturday and Sunday before we get on the road to UFC 261, on the road to Jacksonville, Florida with a pair of apex cards right before that headline by pivotal middleweight butts at Darynton-Torrento versus Marvatory April 10th. Robert Whitaker versus Kelvin Gaston headlines the April 17th event. Of course, we got Jake Paul for.

versus Ben Ascar on April 17th. I'm going to get into that press conference because it was just absolutely ridiculous. But all I will say is that it was really bad. And the reason it was really bad is because Ben Askin was there. And if Ben Ascran wasn't there, it would have been a total disaster. Total disaster. But Ben Ascran was really good, I thought.

So if you haven't seen it, you can go back into the archives. You could watch the entire thing. I wouldn't recommend doing that. but if you just want to watch what happened with Ben Ascred and Jake Paul, I think it's kind of worth your time. It's really interesting stuff. But a big shout out to all of you watching and listening to the program. Big thank you to Jose and Cool Alex on the graphics.

E. Casey Liden, just a hero, saving the day on the production end. And of course, to the guests who joined us this week, one more coming up in a matter of seconds. But I am Mike Heck, as always. Have a heck of a week, everybody. Hopefully my voice will be back to normal by Between the Lank. Thanks on Thursday, but we will leave you this week with my chat with PFL lightweight contender, Laura Sanchez. All right, let us move ahead to another member of the PFL Women's Lightweight roster.

Of course, she'll be part of the 2021 season and a chance at a million dollars. And as we found out literally two minutes ago when we hit record, she's going to make her PFL debut on May 6th against Jenna Fabian. Laura Sanchez joins the program. Laura, how are you? Good. How are you? I'm doing great.

So we're getting closer and closer to your second professional fight. sure you're just chomping at the bit since only competing once last year. How excited are you to get back in there and compete and actually have a date to look forward to? I'm really excited. I've said it before that I've had a long career with, well, long time in between fights. So this one is like, yeah, I was used to having a long time in between the fight and I thought I was going to get on a role. But now I'm just excited because PFL is a tournament. So you're going to have fights one after another.

I'm just ready to get the ball rolling. I was doing some research over the last day or so. And your road to MMA is a really interesting one, because one, you were a Division I basketball player, Western Carolina. But from what I understand, basketball was there, and you were very good at it. You were built for it. But fighting was something you always wanted to do.

Is that accurate? Yes, it is. Actually, I wanted to do it since I was little, probably even before I played ball. I mean, I played ball as long as I can remember, but I also remember that, you know, I was interested in combat sports and I wanted to do that. The thing is that we couldn't afford it. So basketball was just more affordable for my parents. So that's where we went.

And I fell in love with the game and I took it as far as I could. And, you know, it taught me a lot of things, you know, the discipline, the coachability, the type of commitment you need to to have to make it to a top level. after I played D1, I actually played for a semi-pro team in Grand Rapids, Michigan. And then after that, I made a pro tour team. We just couldn't seem to get their stuff together. So, you know, that road came to a close. And I went into MMA because I always wanted to do something in combat sports. When you say you had this insight when you were little, like, how little?

How old were you when you were like, I want to get into fighting? Honestly, I can't even remember how old I was. I've always had the interest. It's kind of like when people say, how long did you play ball? Well, really, I remember the very first time I made a basket in, you know, my driveway at home. And it took everything that I had to muscle the ball up there.

And I was just right under the rim. So, you know, I remember that. But I also remember I always wanted to fight. So, I mean, I can't even put an age to it. What was, like, school like for you? Did you have, like, that itch and stuff? Like, were you getting into fights in school and stuff like that? Or was just something kind of in the back of your?

mind? It was just in the back of my mind. I never really got into fights in school. I kind of kept to myself. I was actually pretty introverted. So like I had my friends. I was kind of kept a small circle, still do. But everything was about my sports. So when I was playing ball, I figured, well, my parents put everything that they could into, you know, our private school. They didn't want us going to public school. They grew up in public school. So everything they worked for was for my siblings and myself to be in private school. And then college was on us. So while I loved playing ball, I also figured I need this to pay for my school. So I just concentrated on that.

I didn't really go to parties and do too much. I didn't have that much of a social life. I mean, I kind of still am that way. Everything about me has been towards a career because I just, I'm driven for success and greatness. So that's all I've really concentrated on. Did you watch the sport while you were growing up? Were you watching like the UFC or any MMA or combat sports?

Not really. When I was playing ball, everything was eat, sleep, drink that sport. So it was like, you know, I barely got any sleep. So everything was, you know, like classes and then multiple practices a day and then missing classes for games and everything was just about that sport. So I didn't really get to watch it too much. But if I had any downtime and I saw that there was maybe a boxing match or something and I would tune in. Do you remember the moment when it went from, I mean, because you've had this, you've wanted to be a fighter since you were a little. Do you remember the moment for you when it was like, because you have aspirate, like everyone has aspirations. It's just a matter of actually pulling the trigger. Do you remember when you actually like pulled the trigger on getting into the gym because you thought basketball could ultimately be your career? But do you remember when you were like, okay, this probably isn't going to happen anymore? Let's get into a gym and let's get this ball rolling. So actually, between my junior and senior year in college, I went to Rufus sport to take their fitness class because when I was home briefly, I wanted to do a different type of workout instead of the standard sprints and agility.

I wanted to do something different, throw something different in my body. And a funny note, actually, when I went back my senior year for college, I passed my conditioning test on the very first try, which I never did on the very first try. So I think that the fitness class at Rupa Sport helped me with that. but when I was done playing ball, I was like, well, I wanted to look up the best team and Rufus Sport popped up. So I kind of already had that introductory just to their fitness and the gym. And then afterwards, it was really simple. I was just like, well, I got to keep moving and I got to keep moving towards something

that I'm very interested in. Otherwise, I don't feel like I'm doing anything. So that's all it was. It was just I'd already experienced it kind of while I was still playing ball. So you did the conditioning, but once you went in there and showed up to the gym and took a class and really got into the combat sports environment that they offer, did you just fall in love with it right away? Was it kind of a humbling experience for you? I definitely fell in love with it ASAP. The thing is like, you know, we don't go in there. We don't spar right away. You know, you start from the bottom. So Duke has his own kickboxing program where he does level you up according to a belt rank just to kind of know where everybody is, who you can really partner with, when you can start sparring. So, I mean, I started at the bottom and it was just learning the basics and the kicks.

And I was really, I think that basketball helped me a lot with it when it comes to like athleticism and and full work. And because if I didn't have that experience, I don't know if I would have really understood how to how to use my body the way that I need to. How long after you started training did you have your first amateur fight? And what was that night like for you? Do you remember the first one? Yes, I remember the first one. So I had waited for a fight a few times. So many of them weren't working out.

And finally I got one. My very first fight was in Milwaukee. I think it was 2015. So I waited a couple years. But then the first fight, I had an opponent. She dropped out. I think it was like just over a week out. And thankfully they found a replacement.

And I'd cut to 155 for that fight. And so my replacement was like, hey, can we do 160? So I was like, yeah, sure, no problem. Then she ended up showing up at like 175. And I just was like, you know what? Whatever, like, let's just do this because I waited way too long for this opportunity.

And I just wanted to get my first fight experience, you know. So I just remember my coach was like, listen, she's just going to come and run at you, just play Matador. Because obviously she was a lot bigger. She was a lot heavier than me. So her goal was to take me down. So I kind of just had to stay out of her way and just, you know, try to pick at her from the outside. When I look at it, I'm just like, oh, I could have done so much more.

But, you know, for a very first fight, it couldn't have gone any better. And I remember my coach saying that afterwards. So I was like, okay, like, that's the first one down. We're good to go. How, like, you mentioned being, you know, long stretches between fights and, you know, with the weight class that you compete at, it's, it can be difficult finding opponents. How frustrating was that for you,

like trying to book fights and trying to stay active and try to get this ball rolling because, you know, like you said, it was obviously very difficult. I know you competed in Gammon in 2019, which kind of got the ball rolling from amateur to pro, but did you start to question the path at all? Were you just like, is this the right decision? I definitely almost stopped before the gamma tournament

because, yeah, I'd been training. so hard and nothing was, you know, coming to fruition. And I was just like, you know, this doesn't seem right. Because when I figured that I was going to Rufusport, I was like, this is the best team under Duke. I have like some of the greatest teammates in my eyes, the people who I know can help me. I'm just like, I feel like everything was meant to be because at the time I was right down the street. I lived right down the street and I was just like, you know, how am I going to have one of the top teams right here knowing I've always been interested in fighting and not go there, right? So I was training no fights. Yes, I almost stopped fighting by the time Gamma came around.

And then Duke was like, hey, I got you into this tournament. And I was like, well, let's see if, you know, it works out. Because of course, I was just like, hopefully, you know, it actually happens. And it did. And then right after that, they were able to give me my pro debut. And then it was like, I think it was that week later, I was signed with PFL. So I was just like, you know, I feel like I've heard the stories where a lot of fighters almost stopped fighting and they're just. like because nothing is happening and then they finally get their opportunity and I feel like that's what happened with me. Yeah. And I think that might have helped you along the way too because like you said, you turn pro. You get the first round finish in January of last year. PFL brings you on and then the pandemic hits and it shuts everything down, postpones the season. I know how you have no control over it. But like how tough was that for you is now we're starting to gain momentum. We gone through gamma went through the pro debut. Confidence is really starting to build and then everything shuts down. I was just like, here we go again.

I was just like, you know, it's just I'm used to it now. But the fact is now that I'm signed with PFL, I don't have to question when my next opportunity was coming around. So I knew, okay, I'm with PFL. Thankfully, they kept me on. And I just took the opportunity to enjoy practice and not worry about, oh, I've got this fight coming up. Let me hurry up and let me try to cut weight and make this. because that's what it was for me was, oh, this one before when I was amateur, it's, oh, this one's coming around.

Let's get ready for this. Oh, that didn't happen. So I've got one for you next month. So I was like always in this mode where I was getting ready for a fight. So now when this, when COVID happened, I was like, well, I'm signed. I know I'm going to have a fight and it's going to be for, you know, next year for 2021. So I just took the opportunity to kind of just relax and enjoy my training. and I've put a lot more into my arsenal since my pro debut.

So, yeah, it's got to be refreshing for you right now. You don't only have one date, but you have potentially two dates. Like you know when your first fight and probably your second fight's going to be. Yeah, yeah. Do you know much about Jenna Fabian? I know she was part of the 2019 season. She got to finish in her last fight. Didn't she was supposed to fight Kayla Harrison in the playoffs but had to withdraw?

Have you been able to learn about her? I watched a couple of her fights. So I know that she's a Muay Thai world champion. She's a lefty. So, I mean, yeah, I watched her. I watched a couple of things that she does. But to be honest, I mean, I can't really hold on to that because, like I said, there has been a year.

And I'm very sure that all the girls have just been training and working to get even better. So, yeah, I know her stance. I know her style. But I'm looking forward to the challenge with her. You don't want to look too far ahead. But in a format like this, you got to be. be prepared for everybody, obviously, but the athlete in you, you know, the competitor in you, you got to be looking at the big dogs in some way, right? Like Kayla, especially the face of the

promotion. She's the star. They built this division around her. And if you continue to have success, at some point, your paths are going to cross. So I'm sure you and your team and Duke has looked at her, the challenges she presents. But I'm curious from like kind of the outside looking in, now you're going to be in the division with her. What have you made of her rise and your thoughts on potentially fighting Kayla sometime this year? You're right in the fact that I don't want to overlook anybody. Yes, I know that she's the current champion and that there's the possibility that I face her.

But I also know, yes, she's judo. It's kind of the same when I looked at Jenna. Yes, I know what their style is and what they're bright and butter is. So at the end of the day when I, you know, I'm going to end up facing her, then, you know, I'll study her even more. but I understand, you know, her success and why everybody's making a big deal out of her. But then again, we have so many other big names who have signed with PFL too. So, you know, now we have Clarissa who signed.

So we have like judo champions, Muay Thai champions, boxing champions. So yeah, she's the current champion. But like I said, I don't want to look too much at her and just focus on her. I'm focused on everybody. Yeah, some OGs in there too. You have like Cindy Bandwa, Caitlin Young's in there. there. So, I mean, there's, there's a lot of talent. Of course, of course, the goal is to win the whole thing, right? You want to go in there, win a million dollars. But other than that, you know,

the activity obviously is a goal and it's a good thing. But what are your like personal and professional goals for this season, your first full one with the PFL? Um, I just want to, I'm just taking it one fight at a time. I feel like if I, if I look, you know, forward and I'm thinking about all these other things that I want to do, I won't, I won't live in the present. moment and just take you one fight at a time. I don't like to really look too far ahead because the things that you know happen for

champions, the blessings, everything that comes with that, that comes with your success and you're not successful unless you're, you know, if you're not concentrated on what you're what you're working towards. So yeah, my goals are just keep winning. I have to win in

spectacular fashion and just keep moving forward and just kind of, you know, be entertaining. it's an entertainment sport. So I just really want to enjoy what I'm doing. Have you allowed yourself to think about the million dollars? Like, I mean, at some point, it's got to like cross your mind at some point. Like if you go through this thing, get to the end and win, like this will be one of the biggest

stories in the sport. And I know you want to take things one fight at a time. You don't want to look too, too far ahead. But what will that mean to you if you go through this thing, win it and win a million dollars? It would be life-changing, of course. You know, yeah, I thought about it. I'm just like, yeah, if I won that million, I could finally get myself a house. You know, I've got a, I've got an apartment right now.

And I would just, I would look forward to getting a house and just being able to move forward in my life. But, you know, if I just concentrated on that, it wouldn't, I don't think that I would really perform that great because I would just be thinking money in my head, you know, instead of just loving what I'm doing in the competition. So like I said, that stuff comes with your success. Yes, it's crossed my mind, but I'm not concentrating on it. So I mean, so all and all, like the money is great, but it's like carry on top of the Sunday.

It's not the whole thing, right? It's just part of it. Right. What are your thoughts on the bubble? Because it's a cool setup. Everybody wants to be, safety is the most important thing here. But there's a lengthy quarantine at all. You know, safety first.

17 days is quite some time. What are your thoughts in the bubble? It's interesting. I see why they're doing it. But, yeah, 17-day quarantine is a long time. So I'm just trying to see which coach and maybe a teammate who are going to be cornering me, which one I can bring out there, at least teammates-wise, to keep my training going the way that I need to. It is what it is.

You know what I mean? Like, it's, yeah, there's certain people, you know, I have, like, my friends and family who are like, oh, we can't come out there and watch. Can we just, like, stand in the back, maybe just peek in? Like, no, it's not going to work that way. You can't. Sorry, you can't. And so sometimes they're like, well, we still want to come out there,

but maybe just hang out with you afterwards. I'm like, you guys are going to be disappointed because they're still going to try to come in and see. You know, I'm not going to be able to get you guys in. So I think that's the only frustrating part is just, you know, some of my closest people, my parents in particular who have always supported me in my dreams. you know, they wanted to be there for all my fights. And they did what they could to make it to as many games as they could when I was down in Illinois and North Carolina.

So it's for them, they're just like really frustrated about it. But the bubble, it's fine. Yeah, I'm with it. So it's concentrated on yourself in your training and getting ready, I guess. Are you like a video game or anything? You're going to bring like a system with you to kind of pass the time when you're not training? Actually, I have a full-time job. still. So I still have to bring my work computer out there and work in the morning and then,

you know, try to find my time to maybe if I can get some training, maybe during my lunch hour. And then obviously after I'm done with work, get most of my training. And so I'll make it work when I'm out there. But as for being a gamer, I'm not really a gamer, but the only one that I really play is Fortnite. And it's because like, I mean, I'm not even a pro at it either. I just, I just go in there. I don't build. I don't do anything spectacular. but like if I have any time and I'm just bored and maybe I just I'm my body's too tired to get up and go do anything I'll just I'll maybe I'll relax and play a little bit and my niece is actually in Ohio for school so sometimes she'll be bored because it's a very weird year for her as a freshman um so maybe I'll hook up with her and just that's kind of like how we interact or my nephew loves gaming so I'll interact with him over there over the game as well that's cool that's really go all the reason Yeah, I mean, I'm the same. I have a seven-year-old, and he plays Minecraft all the time,

and I have no idea how to play it. I just fly as high as I can, and he gets all upset with me that I'm not building houses with him. It's crazy. But this is kind of one of those circumstances where, like, having a full-time job is kind of beneficial. It takes your mind off the quarantine and all that time. What do you do for full-time work if you don't mind me asking?

I work for GE Healthcare. I'm a what they call a field support specialist, but really what it is is engineers are out working. They're doing the physical work on machines. they call me whenever they need something. I basically make sure that everything is done within the GE system. Oh, cool. And you're able to do that remotely without any issue.

Do they have to change some things around for you to have to do it that way? No, no. Thankfully, it's remote. I mean, they didn't really like us working remote before. So we always, we have our laptops, but they always required us to go into the office. But thankfully, yeah, it's not a problem for me to work from home. So how does this fight with Jenna play? out on May 6th? Like, is there a way that you're sort of picturing it playing out? I know we're like

two months away, but how do we sort of set the tone for the season on May 6th? It's going to be a challenge. You're going to see the two tallest women in the division go at it, you know, for our first fight. I see a playing out is probably going to be a striking match, but it's going to be fun. She's, like I said, she's a lefty, and I haven't faced someone as tall as her. I've always been much taller than my opponent. So it's just going to be a fun, a fun fight and I'm going to come out with the win. There you go. PFL is back. The women's lightweight season kicks off May 6. Laura Sanchez takes on Jenna Fabia. Of course, Kayla Harrison makes her debut. Fabrice Over Doom's in the main event. Caitlin Young versus Cindy Dandois

on that card as well. Should be a real good one. Laura, thank you for the time. All the best to you in the rest of this camp and in the fight in a little less than two months time. All right. Thank you for having me. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.