MMA Fighting - What the Heck: Episode 53 | Jon Anik, Mackenzie Dern, Joe Solecki & Colbey Northcutt

Episode Date: April 6, 2021

This week on What the Heck, MMA Fighting's Mike Heck is joined by Mackenzie Dern (4:41) ahead of her pivotal strawweight matchup with Nina Ansaroff this Saturday at UFC Vegas 23 and discusses being part of the first women's MMA fight to air on ABC. Colbey Northcutt (21:!2) previews her upcoming bout with Sovannahry Em on April 28 at ONE on TNT 4 and talks sharing the card with her brother Sage Northcutt for the first time as professional MMA fighters. Joe Solecki (38:03) discusses his big fight with Jim Miller this Saturday at UFC Vegas 23 and competing for the first time since becoming a father. Finally, UFC commentator Jon Anik (57:48) recaps Francis Ngannou's KO win over Stipe Miocic to become heavyweight champion at UFC 260, a potential fight with Jon Jones, a loaded upcoming PPV schedule, and more. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. What the Heck with Mike Heck on MMAfighting.com. Now here is your host, Mike Heck. What the heck? Well, hello there, everybody. Welcome to a brand new edition of What the Heck here on MMAfighting.com. I am Mike Heck. Thank you for checking out the program once again this week.

The UFC is back this Saturday, a rare weekend off this past weekend. But they're back on ABC this Saturday, headlined by, Marvin Vittori versus Kevin Holland, who is stepping in on short notice for the injured Darren Till. A lot always happens in between times we speak, and Kevin Holland is now in, Darren Till is out. I know our own Damon Martin actually spoke with Kevin Holland on Monday before the Trailblazer travel to Las Vegas. So look for that interview. It should be out now on the MMA fighting YouTube page.

Great to see Bellator back at it. On Friday night, Bellator 255 went down in beautiful. Uncusville, Connecticut at Mohegan's Unnerina, and it was capped up by Patricio Pitbull, successfully defending his featherweight title. What a performance. You just don't do that to Emmanuel Sanchez unless you are a special, special fighter. Patricio Pitbull is a special fighter. What a performance.

And now the fight everybody wants to see is next. My opinion, this is the biggest fight Bellator can make. Patricio Pitbull versus A.J. McKee for the featherweight title. the finals of the featherweight ground pre. Man, that is a tasty fight right there. And A.K. Lee and I discussed the fallout of that event, how big that fight can be comparing that fight to the UFC featherweight title fight

between Alexander Volcanowski and Brian Ortega for later on this year. And a whole bunch of other stuff. We discussed on onto the next one. Usually it's our UFC matchmaking show, but there was no UFC event. So we just did like a popery of topics and just talked about everything.

So check that out on the podcast. Network. Belator, of course, back again this Friday, headlined by Ryan Bader versus Leota Machita. That'll kick off the Elitore Light Heavyweight Grand Prix. Very exciting stuff. Liz Carmoose versus Vanessa Porto is on that card. The return of Katzenegano should be a good one this Friday on Showtime. And by the way, that open on Showtime for Bellator 255 heading into the main card right in the fields right in the fields absolutely incredible so kudos to bellator glad to seen them back in 2021 one championship is also back on wednesday one on tn tn t one live right after a e w wrestling demetrius jonson challenging adriano marius for the flyway title which in my opinion quite possibly the

most interesting fight of the entire week in mixed martial arts for being honest that is a really good Maitres Johnson, of course. We all know who DJ is, but Adriana Marias. Getting overlooked a bit here. That is going to be a great fight. Eddie Alvarez on that card as well. He takes on Yuri Lappicus. Another interesting fight right there.

Much more. That's going to be a good event. So make sure you check that out. Of course, the UFC back this Saturday, UFC Vegas 23. A lot to be excited about if you are an MMA fan. But let's get into this week's show. Here is the lineup.

We're going to wrap things up with my conversation with the great John Anick. if you missed it, I spoke with him on Thursday. He's actually going to be calling the action on Saturday on ABC. But we talked about the fallout of UFC 260, Franziangano's big win, the big pay-per-views upcoming later on this month, in May, in Houston, the fans, etc. And talked about a lot.

So that is coming up at the end of the program. Joe Selecki has a big one coming up on Saturday. It takes on Jim Miller at UFC Vegas 23 featured prelim on ESPN, before everything switches on over to ABC. We'll check in with the new dad, Joe Selecki, a little bit later on. Speaking of one championship, Colby Northcutt returns to action later this month, and she'll be on the same card as her brother, Sage Northcut. April 28th, one on TNT4, she takes on Sovanari M.

First time getting the chance to speak with Colby Northcut. You'll hear that conversation in around 20 or so minutes. But first, let us check in with one half of one of the big fights, this Saturday in the UFC strawweight division. Let us welcome back to the show. Mackenzie Dern. All right, happy to be joined once again by McKenzie Dern, who is back at it again this Saturday in Las Vegas.

She takes on the number five ranked Nina Ansaroff at UFC Vegas 23. McKenzie, thank you for joining us again, especially on Fight Week. How are you? Yeah, thanks for having me. I'm happy to be here. And it's good, you know, I get some interviews. I'm still out of home, you know, so it's good. You know, I'm happy.

I'm comfortable. and that's what's important. Absolutely. So when you and Nina get in that octagon on Saturday, this will be the first women's UFC fight, first women's MMA fight to ever air on ABC. And ABC has a rich, rich history in combat sports, some of the biggest fights in history in boxing,

more specifically aired on that network. So how does it feel to be in this position, be part of the very first women's mixed martial arts boat on ABC? Yeah, I think it's great, and I'm so happy. I think it's really like going to make, you know, reach more people. And I think it's even better that we're both moms, you know. So it's like really, really cool. I don't know if it's the first like both recent mom fight in the either, you know.

But, you know, I think we're really like maybe a lot of women can, we're able to connect and identify some their stories with us. And we'll kind of really get people interested in watching, you know, women's MMA and all these things. I'm hoping the guys will be happy that their girls will be excited to watch the girls' fights, you know, and things like that. You know, they're like, oh, Dave, look at these girls, you know, their moms and all these things. So I think it's really good.

And I know we're going to do a great show for everybody. Is that something that is important to you to try to, like, grow the audience in that aspect? Definitely, 100%. I mean, I went into MMA because I wanted to get women's jiu-jitsu, you know, if I thought like me, if I can represent jujitsu, like women's jih Tzu on the big platform that's the UFC and show like the how efficient

jih Tzu is, then that's the whole reason why I got into MMA into the UFC and stuff like that. So now on top of that, you know, becoming our mom and still like showing, you know, trying to like, you know, just kind of inspire the woman and get them, you know, seeing that we have technique, we train hard,

we can be moms and daughters and wives and all these things. things and it's still going kick butt too, you know. That's amazing. It's a very cool thing. It noted about another cool thing took place in December at UFC 256, took on a very tough opponent in Verna Janderoba. The fight was all tied up heading into the third round and you come through in a big way with your striking.

You listen to the coaches in the corner. You landed some big shots in that third round and used some great technique and got the win. I feel like this was kind of a turning point round for you, being able to come through the way that you did. What was that third round back in December? like for you? Yeah, it was good, you know, because I think, you know, a lot of people, or they grow

or they kind of, they don't show up for the third round, you know, or they're kind of like the person that kind of slows down in the third round or the person that puts depression on the third round. So I think it's definitely more dangerous to fight someone that grows in the third round. And I think I was able to show that that I'm kind of like the person that just gets better and better. When before people say like, oh, you know, just take McKenzie out of the first round and, you you know, pull her into deep waters and then you'll do good.

You know, I think that's kind of the strategy of a lot of people who go to fight me is kind of to win on points, go to the judge's decision, you know, that go the three rounds. I'm always pressing forward, aggression, aggressive, you know. So kind of just to let me make me get tired, make me make mistakes and go to third down. So I think really going into the third round, especially kind of like, you know, it was kind of who wanted more. And, you know, if they wanted more, they kind of have to exchange with me, you know, they need to get close.

And then that's where it's dangerous because, you know, I'm the ground. I'm a grappler. And, you know, they don't want to get close to me, you know. So I think it's, it was really good to kind of show like my, the different levels I'm gaining and, you know, Perilla Box. And, you know, I was really excited to show. And I think, like you said, it kind of would just turn the corner. And I'm really excited to show, you know, what I've been working on and how, I mean,

maybe I'll show it, maybe not. Maybe it'll just be like really fast or something like that, you know, but I've been working hard and Perlough, you know, it's every day and in the gym. And I think we're going to show a lot of good stuff. Yeah, it's interesting because it was clearly vindication for those who who say like, oh, once you get McKenzie out of the first round, she's in trouble. But kind of having a fight in a performance like that, you know, especially with everything you had to deal with last year, like you dealt with a lot, moving gyms, et cetera, has to be

a bit motivating knowing that not only were you able to prove some of the doubters wrong, it kind of showed that the moves you've made along the way were the right ones. You know what I mean? Yeah, definitely. I mean, I try to, you know, inspire people, things like that. But everything is basically like me and my family, you know. So I knew going into the fight, I felt great, you know, like I'm so happy with the decision I made.

This fight, I brought in my coach, my strength training coach from Brazil, Jorgeio Camois. So it's like something that I said in a lot of interviews. from my pregnancy until now one thing like first off course is my boxing you know trying to get my boxing better you know but one thing i've been saying like man i lost a lot of muscle and i'm really trying to gain that muscle back and stuff like that so this was like the first camp thankfully because of all the structure i have at the baruka jane with rillo that like i felt i felt good enough that i can add one more responsibility you know which was like my strength training and add to my add one more ingredients you know to this like cake you know what i mean so i'm really

excited, you know, and everything's just working out good. You know, I think people can tell and focus, like we're in here and for the big money, the big run, you know, we want to be the champ and we want to make big things, you know, so I'm excited about that. It took 11 fights for it to happen, but I believe that was your first broken nose. Is that accurate? Is that the first one? Yeah, the first one. Yeah, outside of sparring, never had them sparring, nothing, you know. So it was the first broken nose and was good, you know, like I really, I actually right after that, I had like maybe four, five, six weeks off. And then when I came back, I did like a training with T.J. Delishaw, he had come by and stopped by and he did like a stiff jab, boom, right to my

nose and just blew up again, you know. Oh, gosh, you know. But it was funny because my coach, you know, in the fight, I'm like, oh, is it broke? He's like, yeah, yeah, you're fine. And then in the training, I'm like, he's like, oh, man, I think it's broken, you know. It was like totally the opposite. His reaction, you know, I was like, what? You know, and then it wasn't broken that time. So I was like, okay. So just do like the opposite of what he says.

Oh, it's so funny. So now you get Nina Anserraff, first time fighting somebody in the top five. Like we talked about earlier, a fellow mom. This is her first fight since becoming a mom. She fought in Judah 2019, lost to Tatiana Suarez. How did you react to seeing you? you were getting this big jump up in competition as far as the rankings go. I was so happy and I was really sad because after I beat Verna, I know, I didn't move at all.

She was like my first, like besides Amanda Rivas, but Amanda, she wasn't, like we weren't ranked before our fight, you know. But she was my first ranked fighter, me and Verna, even though she was two behind me. And, you know, I kind of saw like people moving and things like that and I didn't move at all, you know. So I thought like maybe I go to 10 or so, you know, you just want to get that the top 10. You know, it's like so close, but so far, you know, I'm number 11, you know. So I kept talking to Mick, you know, I said, come on, like any fight in the top 10, you know, I just want to move up. I want someone that's really going to, like, push me. Like, I don't want to get to the belt fighting people like that are ranks.

You know, I want to really, like, prove myself and the best way is to, like, show that I'm ready, you know. So really, when they said Nina, you know, I'm like, okay, Nina's going to fight, you know, I thought it was cool. I know what it's like, you know, my daughter, she's going to. to be two in June, you know? So, you know, I'm going, I went through the whole process that she's going through. And then when I saw like, okay, she's number five, that's, you know, I'm, I'm so happy for this, for this opportunity. You know, it's really like, I'm hoping will push me far up, you know, if I can get the win. Yeah, you'll be in the top five at worst, just outside of it. I mean, have you, have you thought about that at all? Like what, what life's going to be like as a

fighter being in the top five or just sniffing the outside of it? I feel like I'm ready for the champion, like for the bell right now, you know, just how focused I am, you know what I mean? It's like, of course, you know, I have so much, you know, we like fights and a couple more fights and everything is good to learn and get better, you know. But just focus-wise, I feel like I should be there now, you know, just because I'm like, man, all I do is like my kid, my baby, my husband, our life here at home and the gym, you know, where, you know, I'm just watching the fights all the time. It's like I can't even see myself in a different way than now. You know, I'm really, really focused. And it's not going to change. And I think people are going to see like how, how ready I am.

I saw that one of the things that you've been working on for this camp, obviously with the strength and conditioning, but with your striking has been trying to improve the defense, like the slipping of the punches, the head movement, which a lot of fighters have told me in the past. It's like one of the toughest things to master. Like, obviously it's easier to hit somebody than it is to avoid being hit. How much have you improved in that aspect? And how difficult does that part been for you? Yeah, I think it's all starts from like getting punched with your eyes open, right? People tend to like close their eyes. You know, I always did that.

I'm always aggressive at the tack, you know. But, you know, it's all coach for real. You know, he has his picture in his mind, his artwork that he has said for me, you know. I don't even know what he has said for me. He obviously knows everything he wants to do with me, how he wants his finish. artwork, masterpiece to be, you know. So he's just always adding to his, to my game and things like that. But really what I know, like what we feel, you know,

is just people like always on the counterattack with me, you know, like, you know, get me to come forward and then the counterattack. So just really be able to see the punches and, you know, moving off of the punches and getting my takedowns off the punches, getting my punches off of the countering, counterattack the counter, you know. And it's just how it keeps going and going. And I'm trying to understand like the whole boxing and striking now. and it's really, really fun, you know.

And definitely, like, the punches you see don't hurt you as bad as the one you don't see, you know. So I learned that a couple of times doing sparring, you know, so it's really good. So the big question, McKenzie, is how do we get this thing done on Saturday? Huge fight, big spot like we talked about, mom versus mom, first women's UFC fight on ABC. How do you get this thing done against a very game, very tough opponent and Nina Ansaroff? I mean, it's just jiu-jitsu, and I think the submission. is going to come with this fight. You know, I know she has good, great, great takedown defense.

She's a striker, you know. My last fight, I went the whole three rounds striking, you know. I think I proved a lot. But I think, like, really the way to get this fight, you know, cleanly with no broken nose, you know, is to get it to the ground and submit so fast as possible, you know. So definitely the ground is the way to go on this fight. Three fights in 2020, despite a pandemic happening. You begin 2021, first fight a month earlier than you had your first fight last year.

I went on Saturday, like you said, put you in the top five. But I'm curious, like, what are your goals for the year after really successful 2020? Like, you think you, like, you're confident you could go after the belt right now. Do you think, is getting there by the end of this year? Do you think that's a possibility? Definitely, definitely for sure. Like I said, I'm prepared. And also, you know, the way I'm feeling like strength training, everything, like,

okay, if we need to take a fight, like last minute or something like that, I think we'll be prepared to do that. Definitely want to fight as many times as possible this year, you know. But also two people who are going to, like, really get me closer to the belt. You know, we have, like, the champ with Rose going to happen, I think, next weekend. And they have Jan with, I think, Carlos Sparza. So kind of, there's a lot of things that are going to be mixing, moving around in the top four, top five, you know, in the next couple of weeks.

So I'm excited to see what's going to happen there. I don't know, Joanna, I don't know if she has a fight. We'll see. We'll see everything that happens. But definitely, I think if I make it to the top six, you know, then someone in the top, you know, the top five. So, I mean, there's a lot of space to happen and I think we'll be good. There you go.

Who do you think wins that fight, John or Rose? Man, that's a hard one. I think, I think, John, I think John will win, you know. I think it will be a good fight. I know Rose has like submissions. I never seen John do any like jih Tzu eyes. And me watching her, I think, okay, I'm going to, if I ever fight her, will be to do jihitsu.

And I know that Rose can get some, you know, flying arm bars, flying triangles. You know, I saw her working on her heel hooks and things like that. But man, the champ, she's, she's focused too, man. She's prepared for anyone anytime. So I think it's going to be hard to take her off the throne right now. Yeah, that's going to be a great fight. Two last quick things. I appreciate it giving me so much time.

One, I've been asking everybody about this because it's happening in a little over a week's time. Are you going to be watching the Ben Ascgren versus Jake Paul fight? Is that something that interests you? No, I know. I'm not going to watch it. I'm too focused on what's going on in my fights right now, you know? Fair enough. Fair enough. And then last thing, I saw this video that you posted. It was you and your daughter, you were sparring in the cage.

She's run around. She's knocking her fist together with the UFC gloves on. That must have been like the coolest thing in the world for you, was it not? Yeah, it's so cool. And all like, it's crazy because like I didn't even know he's going to like explode that much. You know, so many people liked it and it was like a lot of people tagging me, you know. And my husband and I was like focused on the training, you know. So I'm tired.

You know, my dad's there. And we're just, that's like our day to day thing, you know, like we're just playing around. And she, I have so like I said, I have to like convince her to give me my gloves, you know. so I can train out because she wants to keep my gloves, you know. So I had my UFC ones there and she, and she hits it. She does like her own little thing. It's so funny, you know. So when I kind of, my husband made a little video out of it

and kind of put into perspective and I was at home and we're watching it, I was like, oh, man, it was such a good moment, you know? Because when you're in the moment, you're like so tired, you're just finished getting like punch in the face and she's bringing me water and all these things, you know? Sometimes she goes on to the octagon, you know, the ring and she's like kind of shy, you know? she wants to bring me in the water and just, man, I hope mom, like, you know, notices me here and I'm so focused, you know, and then I see her. I'm like, oh, thank you.

And then you can see she just gets so excited to be like my little helper and just be there involved and everything, you know. So it's really cool, you know. But, man, it's nervous. I hope she doesn't want to do anything when she gets older. You know, now I understand what my parents go through, you know, watching me get punched in the face. That is a very interesting fight on Saturday. McKenzie Dern taking on Nina Ansaroff. Nina's first fight since the birth of their child,

her and Amanda Nunes, excuse me, first fight since June of 2019, that lost to Tatiana Suarez. And that was the last time we saw Tatia Dostorez fight as well. But what a huge move McKenzie Dern will make in this loaded 115 pound division if she can pick up another big win against the returning Nina Ansaroff.

She'll be in the top five. at worst, she'll be number six, but she'll probably just jump right into the top five spot, knowing historically how the UFC rankings work. And she'll be in line for just an absolutely massive fight if she can do that. So that's a good scrap. Really looking forward to that one as we head to our next guest, who is also returning after a bit of a layoff, making her what the heck debut ahead of her sophomore appearance with one championship,

April 28th. Let's welcome in Colby Northcutt. All right, let us say hello to Colby Northcutt, who returns to Action April 28th at 1 on TNT4 takes on Sovonari. And Colby, thank you for being here. How are you? I'm doing great. Thank you for having me.

Absolutely. So I believe happy birthday is an order. Like it's March 30th as we record. So yesterday was your birthday, right? That's right. It was yesterday. Thank you. I appreciate it.

So how did you celebrate the big two eight? I know it's a different time in the world with the pandemic, but were you able to do anything exciting? Honestly, I trained yesterday. So nothing, nothing in the schedule was different. But over the weekend, like on Saturday, we went out to eat, just had a nice little lunch with Sage and my husband and then Sage's wife, just a nice little lunch, but nothing too extravagant because obviously I'm in a camp.

Right. So we'll do the real celebration after the fight. Absolutely. So this will be your first fight since November 2019. And that was a memorable day in your career because you earned your first professional victory. it was your one debut at Edge of Greatness. What did that night mean to you getting your first pro win? And I guess more important for your career and your development,

logging that all important time in the cage and in the ring and the experience overall. Yeah, great question. I mean, obviously it was a huge, huge thing for me. A lot went into that fight. I had been coming off of a pro debut that wasn't as successful as I wanted, and it was a two and a half year layoff too. So coming from a fight like that in the U.S. to an entirely new organization in front of the biggest crowd I've ever fought in in a new country, there was a lot riding on it. And there was a little bit of ring rest too. So the fight, obviously, any athlete competitor, I would have wanted that finish. I did want that finish. And I thought it almost had it in that first round. But I am grateful that the fight played out the way that it did because being my My second pro fight, I needed that experience, especially coming from such a long layoff.

I needed that full 15 minutes in there to kind of show everybody what I was capable of, but more importantly, show myself what I was capable of. So I'm happy to be back. Obviously, I wish that it was, you know, would have happened a little bit sooner than a year and a half later. But, you know, I'm really looking forward to this one next month. You brought up your pro debut against Courtney King. And like you said, it didn't go your way. is certainly not the way you drew it up. And listen, loss has happened in the sport,

but making your pro debut and having it go that way and just hearing you talk about your first pro win, yeah, but it would have been great to get your hand raised. But having that fight go the way that it did, that had to have also been a pivotal moment in your career because as important as the win was, would you say it was more important on your overall growth that first fight rather than the first win?

Absolutely. I mean, no matter how many amateur wins that I had with all of my amateur finishes, I mean, your pro debut, it not going the way that you wanted to ending up with the loss. I mean, that was, I mean, I didn't take that very well. I mean, but looking back on it now, I wouldn't change anything. I know now not to fight it that weight class. I fought way too heavy.

That's something that changed kind of two weeks notice. And I was just like, yeah, I'll go ahead and fight up. A lot of different things went into that. And a lot of learning went into that as well. I feel like I grew a lot as a fighter. and I'm really happy actually that that happened early on in my career and got it over with. I mean, I look at, look at Rhonda Rousey, and I use her as an example, her super successful career with how many, you know, wins that she had being undefeated in that first loss.

It was like the end of the world for her, which it really did feel like that. Like I would hate to be in that position and experience something like that way down the line. So I'm grateful that I got that one out of the way, you know, it's done and it's over with. then I can move on to bigger, better things and focus on the growth. Yeah, that's a great way of looking at it. And what's interesting about you and Sage being on the one roster and being a pro fighter in general, like a big reason fighters strive to sign with these big promotions is because they want to travel the world and experience new places and kind of stamp that

passport. For you, you've been doing this traveling stuff forever since you were a little kid. Like, you're used to this whole thing already, right? Yeah, yeah. you know we have traveled a lot our entire lives competing in sport karate all over the world but Asia is the one country that we haven't actually been to before our one day views so um having one be so awesome to sign me even as a brand new professional I'm super grateful for that and obviously I understand that um it kind of comes with being sage's sister but I'm grateful for the opportunity

and getting to explore all of Asia um that is so cool too because because that's a place that I really never thought that I would even be able to see one day. If you would have told me five years from now that I'd be signed with one, fighting over Asia, I probably wouldn't have believed you. But I'm really grateful for this opportunity. And it is so much fun, obviously, to travel and see the world, of course. Was there like a bucket list item that you got to see outside of just, obviously, fighting was, you know, was a business trip, but still, like, being able to explore Asia and see all the different things that you've wanted to see for so long,

Was there like a bucket list item that you got to sort of check off? Actually, yeah, the boat hotel was the one thing I really wanted to see and get to go and eat and do up there. Just because of crazy rich Asians, that's it. You know, before COVID, we said, you know, my next fight, I want to be able to stay. I want to be able to go to other countries that are close by, Thailand and all these different places. Obviously, that's kind of not able to happen right now because of COVID. But I'm happy that I'm at least able to go and get a fight. Even though it is going to be strictly business this time, that's what we're there for, right?

Business. And now you get to fight on this huge card on TNT. This is really exciting stuff. What does that mean to you? Yeah, I mean, it's huge. I obviously understand the opportunity. And I know that being such a new professional fighter, I mean, that's huge for me. And then especially breaking into the U.S. market like they are.

I've known for a while now that that was their goal to break into the U.S. market. and then obviously signing U.S. fighters from all over the place now. So I'm very grateful that I'm not only able to fight, but I'm able to fight on such a monumental card with such awesome athletes as well. And then getting a fight alongside Sage is just like icing on the cake. It's great. This is the first time you've both been on the same card, right? As professionals, yes, as amateurs, and we fought for legacy before they were LFA,

they had a whole, you know, legacy amateur series. So almost every single one of our. amateur fights. We were on the same cards together, which was a lot of fun, obviously getting to fight with him. But now that we've obviously grown and he's all, you know, done the whole UFC thing and is here. No, we've never fought as professionals on the same card together. So I'm, I'm very much looking forward to that. And I'm happy that I'm fighting first because I get really nervous for him. I get really, really nervous for him. Being my younger brother, like, oh my gosh, I get more nervous for him than I do for myself or my husband when we fight.

So I'm happy I get to fight first and get it out of the way so that I can relax. Is there a part of you as like the older sister that's like I got to set the table for him? Like I got to lay down the groundwork. I got to get the win and get the family momentum going. Absolutely. There's pressure. I mean, whether it was, you know, the other way around, I feel like you have to set the tone for the night. Right.

So like, you know, I'm not even going to say anything if it doesn't go my way. but, you know, it's like I'm going to get that W and it's going to raise the bar and he's going to perform even better. So that's what it's going to be. So you get to face Sovan R.E.M. in a few weeks. Four and one, four finishes, had a stoppage win a few months ago.

Pretty fun matchup on paper. How do you like it from a stylistic perspective? We are two totally different fighters stylistically. I mean, you look at us height-wise, our backgrounds, everything, weird polar opposites, which I do think that does make four, fun fight because looking at us on paper and then physically everybody knows what each of our game plans are going to be obviously on the taller longer striker wanting to keep it standing on the feet

and keep her at bay in that distance and being the shorter grappler what are they going to do they're going to try to come in clench take you down and it be on the ground so um this is going to be a really great opportunity to show how much wrestling i've improved on with my cage work um and And to show stylistically that I'm a more complete fighter and I'm not just a striker as well. At this point, do you watch a lot of tape on your opponents or do you kind of let the coaches and corners handle all of that? I don't consider myself watching a lot, but I do watch tape, yeah. And it does help that she actually just fought in January.

She fought January 29th and she actually fought a girl that was, you know, 5'9 and a kickboxer. So it was great for me to see how she beat her. her, but what she likes to do and then what didn't work out so well, finding somebody who has a similar style to myself. So she kind of laid the foundation for what I believe she's going to do. But even if I didn't have that tape and I looked at her previous fights, I would think that she'd be doing the same thing anyway. Being over at Team Alpha Mail, we see it on Instagram with Sage and Raymond and even bald your eye of favor these days, which is pretty awesome to say hello. So I assume your husband, Raymond Daniels, will be in your corner.

Who else is going to be in the corner with you in Singapore? Actually, they're only allowing us to have one corner. Oh, really? Really crazy. And that's something that I haven't fully wrapped my head around. I know that from what I understand, there's restrictions over there of allowing people to come into the country are pretty tight. So they are only allowing one corner for outside people coming into Singapore. And you're correct.

That is going to be Raymond. that's going to be obviously a learning curve because, you know, you're used to three. So I'm not exactly sure why we can't have two at least. But, yeah, it's going to be Raymond Graham. It's going to be my corner. Couldn't have picked anyone better to be in your corner, though, right? Right. I mean, the whole, it's going to be a learning experience because from the whole quarantine thing to, you know, all that stuff, it's going to be new.

And then being in other countries, obviously, you know, I'm wondering how it's all going to work out, but it's going to work out the way it's supposed to, and I'm looking forward to it. How do you think it will work, how Colby? Maybe not a prediction per se, unless you have one, but outside of just getting your hand raised, which is obviously the goal, what is the goal on April 28th, outside of just getting the win? Yeah, I mean, obviously, every fighter wants to say I want to finish her. And I would like to showcase my striking. Obviously, I was able to show my striking my last fight.

I thought that I was going to knock that girl out and I did it. So I would actually love to get a K-O finish, but any finish I'd be happy with ultimately. We mentioned Raymond and I talk to fighters about this all the time. Like in the combat sports world, it is very difficult to not only find somebody to share your life with, but find someone who totally understands the complicated life of a fighter, somebody involved in the martial arts and you two have found each other and it is amazing when that happens

what has that been like for you? And what have you learned from Raymond throughout your relationship, the courtship, the marriage, not just like in the cage or the ring or in the training room, but out of it as well.

Yeah, it's funny because we actually met through sport karate. So when people ask, how'd you meet him? How'd you guys meet each other? I can't even, he can't either.

We can't remember how we met each other because when you were saying traveling all, over the world competing in sport karate. That was us and that was him as well. So he's known as like the greatest of all time in sport karate fighting. And so even as a teenager watching him fight, it was just, you know, mesmerizing. He was so entertaining to watch and obviously the best. And then I was able to, when I turned 18 to become, I was able to be on his sport karate team. So I fought with him and alongside him as a young adult through sport karate. So that's how we met.

So, you know, it is, it's very nice to have a partner that understands what you do. I don't see myself being with anybody that wouldn't understand that because it's a difficult life, you know, from the countless hours of training, how you have to live in your diet and everything like that. And just mentally what you go through as a fighter, it's really tough. So having him makes it a whole lot easier. And I feel like he makes me a lot better. too, especially even as a striker. Obviously, he's, in my opinion, the best striker in the world. They can go and translate it over to kickboxing and MMA. But he helps me bring out my karate

side. I feel like a lot of my amateur fights, I don't utilize my karate enough. And he helps kind of bring that out of me and calms me down and everything like that. So he makes me better in every way possible. Yeah. It's interesting. say that because like a lot of fighters they seem to have like this renowned definition of like what an mhm a fighter should be and having somebody like raymond with you he is promoting you being you like being yourself exactly like i've had so many thousands and thousands of hours and of training competing and karate and it's like um those are my roots that's my background

and that's what i'm the best at and so i feel like when i was starting my mMA career i was focusing so much on jit-soo and all these other things that I was like kind of losing sight of what I'm good at. And I realized what I'm good at is rare compared to what everybody else is good at because sport karate is a very rare field. You have very few people that can do it successfully, Raymond, Wonderboy, things like that. So I need to kind of capitalize on that because, you know, there's not many people that can replicate that, they can train for that style. What is it? All you sport karate people are just the nicest human beings on earth. Like Wonderboy, you and Sage, like, where does this all come from? Is this just part of like the development and growth of the martial arts game through that road? I think so. I think, you know, taking karate as a child or whenever you did start, there's so many more fundamental values that teach, you know, your respect, your discipline, your perseverance. There's so many great qualities that are instilled in you in, in,

the real form of martial arts, instead of just, oh, I'm just going to become an MMA fighter and, you know, you're tough all around. I think that karate is very humbling and it teaches you respect and all in all those things that come with it. Well said. Colby, thank you so much for the time. Looking forward to see the 2021 debut for not only yourself, but for your brother Sage on April 28th,

which happens to also be my mother's birthday. So family connections everywhere. You know, it's funny. I'll be fighting, it'll technically be the 29th over there in Singapore, and I'll actually be fighting on Raymond's birthday over there in Singapore, the 29th. Ah, that's so funny. Great birthday present to him would be a win for me. So that's the plan.

There she is. Great stuff right there from Colby Northcutt. Those, the sport karate folks, just the nicest people in the world. They're just so nice. That should be a really fun scrap between her and Sovanari M on April 28th. one on TNT4. Very excited to see this one on TNT era begin on Wednesday night. It's got for the wrestling fan.

You got AEW. And then right after that, you got one. So this could be a very good way to grab a bit of a new audience. A lot to like as an MMA fan and a combat sports fan over the next several weeks. This week's going to be a little bit wild and crazy. As we move ahead to another individual with a massive upcoming fight, he returns to action. This Saturday, featured. prelim of UFC Vegas 23 is looking to make it 3 and O inside the octagon since earning a contract on Dana White's

contender series. But he's going to have to do it over a true gamer, a longtime vet, fan favorite, and Jim Miller. Let us say hello to Joe Selecki. All right, move ahead to our next guest, Big Fight this Saturday at UFC Vegas 23. He's taking on Jim Miller. Let us welcome back Mr. Joe Selecky to the program. Joe, how are you, man? I'm good, man. Thanks for having me on. I appreciate it. It's good to talk to you again.

Good to talk to you as well. Before you get into the matchup itself, there have been some big changes in your life since we last spoke. You've officially acquired the title of dad. Congratulations to you and your wife. Welcome to the club, sir. How have you been enjoying life as a new father? Yeah, thank you, man. I appreciate it. It's been, it's been fantastic. It's awesome. It's awesome. It was east of Sunday. So we were, you know, spending our last bit of a little bit of time together, you know, just tonight packing. So it was like, really hit home of like how great the last, you know, six and a half months had been. So it's just been life-changing. You know, it was like everybody was telling me, but, and then some. So it's just been awesome. And, you know, I wanted to be more active, but it didn't work out that way.

I guess with the, the way the roster has been a little inflated. So it was kind of a blessing in disguise. You know, we got to spend so much time before I had to start traveling again, training and all that. So I was training all along, but it was really nice to not have to worry about, you know, somebody trying to beat me up in six weeks until, you know, she was a little old. So it's been great. There you go.

And you've, it's funny because, like, you've always been a super motivated guy. You've always been motivated by family, motivated by giving back for the sacrifices your wife has made to help you accomplish the stream of yours of being a UFC fighter. How much more motivation is it now that you've, I guess, graduated to Papa Joe? Yeah. It's just very different. You know, like I was talking about it today with somebody I'm very close with. And it was like, I was like, I was always doing this with our family.

mind because we wanted to have a family but you know I got to meet that person that we were trying to you know it was like it's like trying to get to the UFC and then you're here it's just very different feeling like wow like this is more than I thought it was going to be so uh it's the same thing and you know I think I'm still really young you know I'm 27 years old so in the sport is pretty young too but at the same time uh you know when I was at CFFC and re in combat and those organizations like I had this chip on my shoulder of like you know I was doing it for those reasons it was me my wife and I wanted to, but it was almost like this attitude of like, I'll show them. Like no one thinks I can get there.

I'm going to get there. Like it's almost negative, you know, and it was a great source of fuel for a little while. But that's like a young man's fuel, you know, like I don't think the 27 year old car even can run on that kind of fuel, you know? This is a very different thing. This is something that's never going to run out. So I don't even know if it's motivation, inspiration. I don't know what it is, but it's just enough to make me want to give everything I have and

with a positive connotation behind it where like I'm happy to do it. instead of feeling back into a corner, if that makes sense. Yeah, no, I know exactly what you're saying, because, I mean, I'm quite a bit older than you. I'm over a decade older than you. But I felt like when my son was born, it wasn't like, it didn't make me older, but it made me like older in a wisdom perspective.

Like I felt like, like all the cheesy lines my dad would say, like I felt them all. You know what I mean? Like, have you kind of noticed that as well? Like you just feel like a little more sharper in the mind, a little more wiser? Oh, 100%. I've always been very analytical and kind of like old for my age, like even since I've been a little kid, people have been saying that.

But this is just different. Yeah, it's it really narrows in what perspective I have. Like our pastor, I think he's a really smart guy. Last year for the new year, he was saying how like he picked a word for the year. And he was like suggesting that, you know, you try it. And I was like, oh, cool. Like I want to simplify. I got a lot along in my life. Then the pandemic hit.

We really simplified. I was really hoping my family figured out what was important. And then this new year came again. And I was like, well, what's my word going to be this year? I was like, it's going to be focused. I'm going to focus very, very strongly on what I have in front of me, which isn't that much anymore. You know, it's fighting and my family, and that's it. So, yeah, it's almost like I just find myself thinking about a lot, spending a lot of time thinking about that.

And what kind of legacy I want to leave. And it takes away from the glitz and glamour, which is stuff I never really enjoyed about fighting anyway. I'm not really in pursuit of that. And it makes it about what it's about, you know, that fear of, I've always had this fear of not making it to my goals or this and that. And it kind of puts those fears in the rear view mirror where you're like, okay, I was afraid of, you know, going 0 and 2 and getting cut. I'm afraid of this. I'm afraid of that.

Not getting the next contract, whatever. And you're like, my daughter's going to know I tried as hard as I possibly can to be the best fighter I could be. She's probably not going to care all that much about fighting. And no matter when it's over, whether it's 10 years from now, there's a title belt around my waist, or, you know, I'm never able to fight again because I got, whatever something happens Saturday night, I know I had a great ride and she'll know who I was, you know, and the rest is going to be a bonus. So it just puts it in perspective of like, you know, don't let, I always said, like, don't let a loss go to my head or go to my heart and don't let a wing go to my head. And it just kind of, you know, exaggerates that, I think.

Of course, you had the, you know, eight months between fights. It's the second time in a row that's happened with you. But obviously, like you said, you've had this, this extra time to spend with family. But it obviously worked out because now you're fighting Jim Miller. How did you react when you saw his name on the other side of the contract? Me, fellow Jersey guy, not too shabby for your third UFC fight, right? Yeah, not at all, you know, and that's somebody that I love to watch fight. I looked up to him, you know, growing up because he fought the way that I would always want to fight,

which was aggressive with submissions. But it wasn't like that jihitsu guy that couldn't hang with the MMA guys because obviously he's got good striking too, good wrestling. So, yeah, very exciting. Kind of like the Wyman fight, but I wasn't, you know, I was, I liked Matt Wyman, you know, when I watched him on a little fighter and stuff, but, like, I was an active Jim Miller fan. So just another level to that. And he's, you know, probably has a lot more up in his career.

than Wyman did, so it's more of maybe a challenge. And not that was a challenge at the time, but just looking back. And I think it's that. I'm just excited to be, I'm actually on the level where I'm competing with guys that I grew up looking up to. I think that's very, very exciting. You know, I'm going to be nervous like I am for every opponent. You can put a no-fight amateur across from me, and that'd probably be more scary because I'm like, oh, what if I lose to him? So every time I get nervous when they say who I'm fighting, but I'm very, very excited to fight somebody like that, especially in such a fight,

where, you know, it's going to break the record for, at least for temporarily, for most fights in history for him. So you get a big fight, but on top of that, it is the feature prelim on ESPN before the main card switches over to ABC. I mean, this is pretty cool, right? You get that ESPN shine in a big spot. Like, they normally put the fights in this particular place to make sure that people change the channel and move on to the next one. You're there. How does that make you feel? Yeah, the pressure there.

Yeah. You know what? I don't feel any, though. No offense. Sorry, UFC. I hope people tune in as a result of my fight, but I'm not too concerned. But it's pretty cool. It makes it a lot easier to tell, you know, family and friends and stuff like that, too. Like, where are you fighting ESPN? But now people are so keen to it because of the past.

They're like, oh, ESPN Plus. I'm like, no, ESPN this time. Just trust me. But that'll be cool. And I think on the TV guide, it'll say my name in the info box when you click on the event. I know that'll be cool. My grandfather likes to see our name. in writing and print and stuff. So they get very excited about that.

So that would be pretty cool. How does your dad feel about all this? Because I know he's a fan of yours. It doesn't really get to come out and see you too, too much. But obviously with the pandemic, he's not going to be able to come out really and see you now. But how does he feel about the spot, Jim Miller, etc.? Yeah, we talk about it a little bit, you know.

We, let's see. The last one he watched and my mom had to listen. She listened from the room. And he just was like, okay, everything's good. You can come out now. So I'm assuming it will be more of that, you know. They're real supportive, and it's been great. And it's nice now because, you know, I have their only grandchild.

So we go away from Fight Week. I'm like, hey, we kind of need you tomorrow when I leave early. So we'll see it at 6.45 in the morning. And they're like so excited to do it. So, you know, all camp on Saturday. Daycare is closed on Saturday. So Saturday's sparring day. So that's become, you know, Nora and Grammy and Pub Up Day.

So they've just been really, really helpful on the apartment. Take as long as you need and do this. And, you know, if you ever need anything while you're away for camp, like, tell us, you know, helping my wife out and just, it's been fantastic. So it'll be fun to, you know, they're like kind of a part of camp now in that sense. So they can watch kind of feel like they, you know, did something to help me get in there. There you go. That's awesome.

I'm sure they're spoiling the heck out of it, right? Oh, yeah. They all do. You have to, I mean, as soon as this fight was announced and confirmed, and of course, you're ready for whatever happens. But most people imagine this fight because of the styles you two, to the table, there's going to be a good amount of time on the feed, a lot of striking exchanges, of course, if this thing gets to the ground, it's going to make for a lot of fun between you and

Jim. But I mean, do you sort of expect a lot of this fight to take place on the feed on Saturday? I really don't know, you know, we have our certain template that we follow for camp, and that's just kind of knowing the areas where we want to be in both departments, you know, for on the feet or all three, on the fence and for on the ground. So we know where I want to be no matter where it is. We haven't really planned for a certain amount of time because it's such an unpredictable thing. You know, he falls into his shots a lot

because he throws so much behind it and he likes to grapple. So, you know, I can plan to stick and move for three rounds, but it's a small cage. If he falls into his punch or not clinched, I'm probably going to grapple, you know? So I think it's inevitable, though,

that outside of something crazy happening in the first minute or two, we'll probably end up grappling at some point because it seems like the longer the fight goes, he turns into more of a grappler. And, you know, I've kind of done that in the past, too. So that'll be really, really interesting there. He's a heck of a finisher, but I think I'm a pretty sound grappler in every position.

So it'll be kind of a fun contrast of styles. I mean, I know I have my finishes, but I tend to be a little more conservative on the ground, I think, a little more positionally controlling. And he tends to be very, very dynamic. So I think that would be a fun, fun, fun match for me. You know, ultimately, we go out there for the win. We go out there to put him in the areas where we feel we can capitalize. But at the end of the day, I'm a competitor, and it will be fun to compete against somebody

in an area where they're very skilled, too. Yeah, I was just going to ask, like, is there a part of you? that is hoping that if this goes to the ground, just so you can have that test and be able to say, like, you know, whatever. I rolled with him. We had these great scrambles. It was just one of those, you know, amazing ground exchanges between me and a guy like Jim Miller.

Like, are you kind of hoping that happens just to test yourself? Yeah, I think that would be exciting. You know, I think here's the thing. If he walked into our gym on a Saturday and was in town at the beach of his family or whatever coming to Wilmington, I'd want to grapple with him, you know? If I was in New Jersey and I don't want to grapple with him. So, yeah, I think that's, that's, that's, definitely something that would be intriguing, you know, is to see how it plays out.

But at the same time, if I go in there and, you know, I've been labeled a grappler my entire career, if I go in there and keep it on the feet and outstrike, you know, UFC legend, then that would be great for my career too. So really, no matter how it goes, I'm just expecting that grind. And I say it every time and it sounds like I'm just given a generic answer, and I guess I kind of am. But I think it just speaks to the kind of guys I've been fighting where and probably the kind of guys that are all over the UFC roster, which is it's not a ton of specialists. It's a lot of well-rounded guys. So we know

that this isn't a guy that's like, oh, I'm going to go out there and catch his neck, and he's going to lift his hand and tap and just wait to tap. Like, you know, it's a tough guy. So we've got a, I really, really plan to have to work every single area and fight tooth and nail for those positions to get a W here in a grind. Have you trained with him before?

No, no. So I believe, I know they're from Sparta. I don't really know where that is in New Jersey, but I know it's pretty far away. I'm like a South Jersey-filly type Philly area, like Philly suburbs. there's like two different worlds kind of like those more our guys down south jersey where i was from were like team balance uh you know my instructor john hasett was the first team balance black bonded rick and phil megalorese uh and then i feel like once you hit central jersey those guys kind of like the hensoh guys or that affiliate you know they used to train like outmadas and

stuff so never never really crossed paths but uh i think i watched either him or his brother at a cffc when i was like pretty young like the first m a man i ever went to which would be uh gosh probably CFFC1. I think one of them were on the card, but never trained together. I mean, and you talked about it earlier. Like a win, no matter who you're fighting, it's always good for your career, momentum, et cetera. And I know a win, having that name on your resume is a good thing for you, obviously, but that's not your prime focus here. You're not worried about like where this brings you in the rankings, like how close to the top 15 this makes you. But I'm curious what a win over a guy like Jim Miller would mean to you as a fighter and as a person. Yeah, I'm hoping.

I always hope this every fight. I was like, oh, man, if I get through Wyman, it proves that I'm officially a UFC fight. And I was like, well, after the fight, I was like, well, you know, maybe he's going to retire soon. He talks about this and that, you know, whatever it may have been. I was like, nah, it's not a real win. And I was like, okay, if I go out there and grind with Hubbard,

that guy's a grinder. If I can go out there and grind with him, then I know, like, I'm a climb in that. And then I saw them in the first round. And I was like, well, maybe, you know, I'm just like a technician. I don't have that. Maybe he had an off night. And I'm like, okay, like, I really hope that with a win over Miller, I'm going to be like, oh, man, see, I knew I belong here.

But I'm sure if and when that happens for me, like I plan, I'm going to be, you know, sitting at home on Monday in the gym going, yeah, I just think he had, I mean, I, you know, he wasn't feeling that great that night or whatever it was. I'm going to find a way to discredit it. But I like to think that it's going to really solidify in my mind, like, okay, yeah, I'm a household, household guy here. They know they can call me and I'm going to get the job done. Is it going to be one of those like surreal moments for you? Like I know you're a fan of Jim and I know you're not going to be you're not going to be like awestruck by the moment. Like at least that's not the thing. But it's something that up and coming fighters have had to deal with over the years.

And sometimes when they get in there and they see a fighter that they're a fan of that they're competing against kind of messes with their minds a little bit. Like is this something that you've had to like mentally prepare yourself for? No, I don't think. I mean, I thought about him a lot at this camp. Like I think about all my opponents because they just creep in your mind. But I don't think so. you know, in jit-to, I've gone against some guys that, like, I went against Gary Tonin, and, you know, I lost the match, but it was a really good match, I felt, and, like, people

still come in to the gym that, like, maybe didn't know who the instructors were. They looked us up, and he'd be, like, I saw your match with, and I'm like, oh, Hubbard, like, no, no, Gary Toner, really good job. Like, I lost. But, like, I went out and I competed. I showed up, you know? Gibson saw, same thing, like, another high-ranked black belt. And, you know, I think these guys are great, but once I'm on the mat, I think that fight or flight

just kicks in. I would think, I would like to think that Jim Miller with no crowd, because I'm a big, I mean, I'm just a bigger fan of his, but would be the same as Wyman with, you know, 20,000 people there, whoever were there, that same amount of pressure. And it didn't really affect me in that fight. And the other thing is I train with guys that I'm a fan of every day, you know? Every day I train with John Salter. I look up to John a ton. I try to go after him every single day. It doesn't work out for me, but I try, you know.

Got to roll with Chris Wybin this camp because he's been at Jimo a lot. And same thing. Like, I didn't go my way. But I was trying really hard. It didn't slow me. Like, I never stopped. I was trying to, you know, have good rounds. So, you know, I hope it's more of that.

I think it will be. What has it been like working with, with Wyde men and kind of, I mean, obviously he's a very nice guy, very sharp as well. What is it like just kind of picking his brain a little bit? Yeah, you know, I haven't gotten trained with him like that because there's so many great 85ers at Jim while. They all kind of stick together. Got one jitz around, but just getting to be in a room with that guy and pick his brain, some and talk to him. I think it's great to be around guys that have held the belt that are such high-level fighters.

it's like being around Salter. He's the number one contender belt. He's going to fight for a world title this year, I'm sure. And getting around these guys and seeing that they're regular guys, you know, and seeing that there isn't any mystique, they're just really hard workers and good guys and that if you stick around them and do what they tell you to do, you're probably going to have success too. You know, kind of getting that rubble a little bit. Normally this would be the time where I'd be like, how do you see this fight going?

But you're not a big prediction guy. You're just going to go out there and fight as hard as you can and come what may. But what can fans expect from you? I'll go that route. What can fans expect from you on Saturday night before they change your channel ABC? Yeah, I mean, I think you can expect a pretty good pace, it seems like, in all my fights.

You know, I try to come out there and get out of, get after it right out of the gate. That's happened in pretty much every fight I've ever had. Then it's going to be more of that. You know, I'm not going to go out and be passive. I'm going to go out and be smart, but, you know, controlled aggression. That's kind of how I fight.

I think I put a good pace out there and a high output. You know, even in some of the fights where it's been on the ground, you've seen, you know, like in the Wyoming fight, it threw like 180-something punches, you know, I'm going to be chipping away out there for the entire 15 minutes. So, you know, I put in a lot of work in the last six to eight weeks, and you're going to see six to eight weeks worth the output in there, you know. I know it's not at the top of your priorities list these days, Joe,

but I am curious because we are getting closer and closer to the day. But former UFC fighter now retired from MMA competition, Ben Ascran is jumping into another sport. He's fighting Jake Paul in a boxing match. is kind of taken out a life of its own over the last several weeks. So I'm curious your thoughts on this matchup, who you, who you favor to win? Are you going to watch it? Do you care?

Like, what are your thoughts on it? Yeah, you know, I definitely am intrigued. I like all that stuff. I don't like, I don't like the crossover stuff like in the sense of them. It's almost like the whole world, except for the M.A. world. The whole world's bought into like these guys being real fighters. Not to knock on

them, but it's not really that hard to, you know, it's not hard to be a pro fighter when you also had to fallback of like the millions of dollars that you already had when you got in the sport, you know, I think there's a special bond that comes in fighting where we all kind of work, it's our way up from nothing in whatever, wherever you're from, whatever your story, there's a way where you're like, you all had to go through that, getting 200 and 200, and then, you know, giving it all to medical fees beforehand, that type of grind, you know.

So I think in that sense, I don't like it, but I do think it's fun. You know, I think it's fun to watch. It's a spectacle. We were just told about it. I was with my boxing coach and we're driving back to Wilmington now to leave tomorrow. One of the things I said was like, Aswan's going to win this, right? I'm like, I certainly hope so, but I think because he, like we told him out, he's got the Olympic pedigree.

He's a competitor and he has trained and fought with some of the best strikers in the world. So I'd like to think he'll tire him out and get it done by a decision. I really, really hope. Joe Selecki, one of the nicest people you will see in this crazy space of ours and a damn good fighter on top of that. That's going to be a good, good scrap on Saturday, especially if that gets to the ground. Man, the scrambles, the exchanges down there on the mat will be really exciting. Can't wait for that fight.

And that's going to go down, lightweight division right before the main card kicks off on ABC. And don't forget, bad event on Saturday, early start time. The prelims kick off at noon eastern. So we're going to be in and out of there. I mean, it's a UFC event, so not quickly. but we'll have our nights to spend doing whatever. We can go out or, you know, barbecue, fire pit, all that stuff, and get plenty of time ahead.

We're not up until 3 a.m. recapping this stuff. So always nice when we get to mix things up every so often. But we're going to wrap things up with a man calling the action on that card in a moment. But once again, just want to thank everybody for checking out the show this week. A lot of stuff happening. This week is always here on the MMA Fighting Network. We get the A-side tomorrow. We get between the links on Thursday.

Media days for Bellatory and the UFC. We get preview shows. The list goes on and on. Excited to hit the ground running as things are really about to pick up in the world of combat sports very quickly. So big thanks to you. As always, big shout out to Casey Lyde on the production.

Jose Youngs and Alex Savis on the graphics and all the social media stuff. Have a heck of a week, everybody. We leave you with my chat from this past Thursday with the legend. John Anick. All right, there is a whole lot to talk about in the world of the UFC. And who better to discuss this plethora of high-level news than the legend himself,

who called the big heavyweight title fight at UFC 260 on Saturday, as we saw the reign of Francis Ngano begin. We welcome back. John, Anik, to the program, John, how are you, sir? I'm doing well. It's always going to be with you. Is that only five days ago? Is that what you're telling me?

Francis Ngano's win feels like at least half a month ago, given this MMA news cycle. but a lot to get to as usual, my friend. Absolutely. It's good to see you, as always, before we discuss what Francis actually did in the Octagon on Saturday. I mean, the feeling before and like every second of that fight, John, it was just intense doesn't really do it justice. Like, there's intensity in every fight. But this fight in particular between Stipei Michich and Francis and Gano, can you compare the intense feeling to other fights you've called?

Well, I think anything that is championship level brings out a certain intensity and anxiousness, right? Even, you know, from 115 pounds all the way up to the heavy weights, at least for us, because we are fans at our core and we feel a lot of those emotions, I think, that fans feel sitting at home, whether you have an athlete that you're rooting for or whether your team's in the Super Bowl. I mean, we feel the championship stakes as fight fans. but man, Francis Ingano is special. There's no doubt about it. Even dating to his UFC debut in 2015,

I think a lot of us felt like we had something special on our hands. And even if you go back to the knockout of Alistair Overeem, I think late 2017, and you see the way Joe Rogan and I reacted, we called a knockout. But immediately our focus shifts to the well-being of a man, Alistair Overeem in this case, and hoping that he is okay. So this is a special athlete. It's crazy to think about what could have. been in terms of other professional athletic endeavors had he gotten off to an earlier start and

had resources at his disposal. But 13 UFC fights to the surprise of some, it took him that long to be a UFC heavyweight champion. But Francis Ngano's the best in the world. And best of luck to Johnny Bones and anyone else trying to dethrone that man right now. Yeah, I was thinking about this as soon as the fight ended, like the UFC 220 fight. Like if Inganu had, if this and Ganu had showed up in Boston that night, like a very calm composed in Ghana when he beat Steepay and then, you the different guy went in there and fought Derek Lewis. And then he had those like four quick knockouts in a row. Like this would be a completely different conversation right now.

Like we're talking like he would be the goat right now. Like he would be the greatest heavyweight champion of all time. Like has that thought crossed your mind at all? Yeah. And you know, that version who showed up in Boston in 2018 is just so different than this version. And this version didn't exist in many ways, shapes and forms.

I remember when Francis got to our fighter meeting in Boston. and three and a half years ago now. And he put his head down on the table. Like the dude was toast by the time he arrived at the fighter meeting because of everything that he needed to do media-wise. And as you know, he had nothing resembling a good training camp in terms of the preparation. It was a quick turn, obviously, from the Alistair Overeign fight. And, you know, he's not the excuse-making type, but he never should have taken that fight.

So now he has been living his life as a devoted mixed martial arts athlete for the better part of three and a half years. I think the results speak to that. Still not a lot of film on the guy, either for his coaches or other coaches to assess. But he's the scariest power puncher for me in UFC history. And I think even if you had Anthony Rumble Johnson and Derek Lewis on here as guests, they'd probably give him that distinction to. Just the composure he showed, not rushing anything, even when he had me, it's in trouble. He was still very relaxed and composed about it.

Like, that was just something to watch. We expected somewhat of a more composed fighter. We knew he needed that, but to actually see it play out. Caged side, what was that like for you? Well, his coaches deserve a lot of credit. Eric Nixick, Dewey Cooper, Kamar Usman's get a lot of credit, and rightfully so, for just being this calming influence who has a few buzzwords that seem to really help Francis. But I do believe it's going to be hard for Francis to sustain over 25 minutes, right?

He passed this test stuff to take down, got to take down of his own. You know about some of his other offensive. skills, but if somebody can extend him, even this version, I still think that cardiovascular strength is going to be an issue for him because all of his motions are big and they're high energy. So I still think if you can extend Francis and Ghanu, there are tests that he's going to have to pass. But as far as what was presented him this night, team deserves a lot of credit for putting him in a position to succeed.

And he deserves a lot of credit. It's one thing that we all know we need to relax. I mean, even when I'm going for a five-mile run, I know I need to focus on my breathing. That doesn't mean I necessarily do it 90% of the time. So good for Francis, good for the team, very happy for all involved. You obviously call the action as you see it take place. But when Stipe goes for that take down in the first round and Francis lands that Francis and Ganu like powerful sprawl, like what is going through your mind? I mean, come on now.

This was we were just like, I was talking to John Gooden about this. And I was like, I go back to Happy Gilmore when he lands that long. put against Shooter Ben Gavin in the Torch Championship, but he goes, oh, happy, learned a putt. Uh-oh. Brands has learned a sprawl. Like, what is going through your mind when you're seeing that sprawl? I'm not surprised.

Stipe's not surprised. Stepe came out a little flat. I mean, he'd be the first to tell you, and then there's maybe some mental things or mistakes that he made that he sort of softly alluded to on social media. But Sipay was not at all surprised to see an improved version. I mean, he understands the professional athlete that he is sharing the octagon with, you know? And for those out there suggesting that Steepe should,

have been favored based upon the body of work or the first meeting. Do they understand what we're dealing with in terms of Francis Ngano and some of the physical gifts? Like, do people understand what we are dealing with? I can't give you enough superlatives when it comes to Francis Ngano, but I was not the least bit surprised that this was a much improved version. I think it'll be interesting when he fights somebody who has a more layered takedown game, a la John Jones, to see how he holds up under that type of pressure. But I don't know, man, every round begins on the feet. And you got to solve. Francis, like those first two minutes are absolutely critical. But by the time Stepe got to his stool in

round two, as you guys can attest, Orbital might have been broken. I mean, the dude was buckled by the time he got to the stool at the beginning of round two. So I don't know. I wasn't surprised at all by what I saw Saturday night. Yeah, you've probably seen the narratives by now. Like one, steepy came in lighter than the fight at UFC 220 to the smaller cage. Like, obviously, Stipe likes to rely on a lot of movement or anybody who fights for. Ransangano needs to work on the movement, but Francis is able to slowly cut things off when he needed to. Like, do you think that made any difference? Like if they fought in a 30-foot cage, a 50-foot cage, a hundred-foot cage, do you think that fight goes any differently?

Well, it's a good question. I do think if you ask John Jones which cage size he would prefer for the Francis-Ingano matchup, he would unequivocally ask for the big guy. And I think Steepet would do the same. Even though Steepet was able to maximize the 25-footer against Daniel Cormier and use it to his advantage, I thought in this matchup, it favored France. And I might have said this to you before, Mike, but Matt Nitrione used to text me back in the day when maybe fighters didn't know which octagon was going to be showing up to Mohegan Sun or wherever they were going to be fighting. And he'd be like, dude, which octagon is it? And especially for a heavyweight, all you got to do is back up a couple steps and your heel is on the octagon. So not a lot of room in which to maneuver.

I do think it is a factor in most of these matchups. And I think the athletes that don't account for it could pay the price. But Steepet trains in a 24 footer, a foot smaller than this 24. five footer. He was ready to go. I just think he ran into the better athlete. At least right now, I think overall in Ghana is probably the better fighter, as crazy as that might sound to some people. Yeah, Steepa, obviously, one of the all-time great people, all-time, great fighters, great champion, greatest UFC heavyweight of all time. And this loss, I don't care what anybody says, doesn't take anything away from him in that regard. But in terms of what fans and people

imagine and draw up as a heavyweight champion of the world, like Francis is the definitely, definition of that, like the size, the strength, the look, his power. Like, he's a super nice guy when he speaks, but terrifying to look at and watch fight. Like, this is the definition of, like, what casual fans and, like, people who don't watch combat sports, when they think of a UFC heavyweight champion, like, Francine Gano, like, checks off all the boxes, is he not? Well, yeah, the weight class goes up to 266 pounds. And again, this lazy, steep A as underdog narrative that continues to be out there. Oftentimes, he's giving up weight. not always 30 pounds when he's fighting like a Fabrice Overdum.

He's not given up 30 pounds per se. But he's a small guy relative to the weight class, Stepe is. So it's not all that surprising when he finds himself a very slight underdog when he's weighing in 30 pounds below the weight class's limit. So I'm excited to see what Francis Inganu can do. I think the real challenge for him is just going to be motivation and being willing to put training camp upon training camp together because steep. tries to be the perfect guy in training, like training camp in and training camp out and

Amanda Nunes and all of these fighters who have sustained over eight, 10 championship level training camps. That's a hard thing to ask. So I'm excited to see Francis title defense number one. You know, hopefully it happens here in the next few months. I don't need to wait till December to see him and Johnny Bones. But we'll see. I think it's very exciting at the potential as to what the UFC has on its hands right now. Yeah, I mean, with this whole Inganu Jones situation, The idea of this fight and talking about it is much easier to think about and discuss and get excited about, then it will be to actually put this all together because we've already seen what's been going on on social media with John Jones. So I'm curious, not that you have any idea what's going on in the boardroom. Are you confident we see this fight in 2021?

Like, I feel like this is the biggest fight we can make, but I feel like it's going to take a while to get where we need to go. Well, I think there are two schools of thought, right? You strike while the iron is hot, or you take the risk of having Francis Inganu fight somebody like Derek Lewis to try to capitalize on Francis Ngano's obvious momentum right now. John Jones would be the only one who could tell you what his ideal timeline is. I think for Francis Inganu, probably July, you know, International Fight Week would probably align for Francis. I don't know if John Jones wants that fight in July. I think he would probably prefer to have more time. that speculation, it's not even informed speculation.

But again, the Derek Lewis fight calculated or otherwise is a tremendous risk. I mean, Derek Lewis is one of the most decorated knockout artists in UFC history. And if Francis is one or A in terms of the power equation, you know, Derek Lewis is one A. So I'd like to see Ingano and Lewis. But again, if Derek Lewis wins that fight, then all of a sudden Francis needs a W to all of a sudden get back to a John Jones fight that is preserved, at least right now. So we'll see how it plays out. I certainly trust, you know, the greatest promoters in the world to,

to figure out a way to get what could be singularly the biggest fight in UFC history done. Yeah, I just want to see John Jones in there at heavyweight at 245, 250, just to see how he does, whether it's against Ingano or Derek Lewis, but I feel like Ingano is just so massive and we got to get this thing done. Everybody's talking about it. But John's a hard guy to please, man. I mean, he deserves what he wants. He's been doing this for so long.

But interesting times, indeed, Mr. Anik. But no card this Saturday, a rare weekend off on April 10th on ABC. Marvin Vittori needs a new opponent after Darren Till broke his collarbone. Kevin Holland, I'm told, is willing to get back on the horse after the loss of Derek Bruns. Are you calling that one on ABC? I will be there. Yes. Nice little day fight card on the American Broadcasting Company.

So, yeah, that'll be nice. I think we got 8.30 a.m. maybe first time, first fight, Vegas time. But yeah, I'll be there. And for me, honestly, it's really devastating for Darren Till. It's an unbelievable main event. But I got 30 fighters that I'm prepping. You know what I mean? So not to say that he's one of 30.

I mean, you can argue next to Vittori. I mean, he's as important as any in the 30. But I got 30 athletes to sort of wrap my head around. So I'll be busy regardless of who slots in there against the Italian dream. Can we get you a yellow ABC wide world of sports? I mean, I'll look at with the rules. request, you know, as kindly as I could request it of our, of our ESPN head honcho, Glenn Jacobs. So hopefully he's watching this interview and we can expedite things because we got to get

some jacket measurements, you know, DC and I, we fluctuate a little bit, you know. We're not always on fight weight. So hopefully we can get that done by April 10th. Yes, I'm with you on that one. So from there we go Whitaker Gastlam, April 17th. And then UFC 261 goes on April 24th in Florida to three title fights. Excuse me, but Uzman versus Mazadol in the main event. full house things sold out in minutes.

How excited are you won for the card? And then to add on top of that, the fights, the fans, et cetera. This is as close to normal as we'll be getting in quite some time, John. Oh, it's all about the fans for me. You would think it would be all about this championship triple header, but I cannot wait to have fans in the building. And we got a little taste on Fight Island, and we were separated by those hockey boards, as many of you guys know.

I'm curious what the landscape is going to be like. Can I actually like fist bump some of these fans? even if my wife would be against that initiative. I want the interaction with these people because they are the lifeblood of the sport, and I have missed them terribly. I think I've missed them more than anyone on the broadcast team. Yeah, it's easier to sort of navigate things. It's very convenient to go to the UFC Apex.

It's five minutes from the host hotel. Everything's in front of you. You know where things are going to be. But I look forward to being back on the road 25 weeks a year, being with the greatest fans in sports. And it's not so much that it's a crutch for me as far as the... broadcast is concerned, but I really can use that crowd to my advantage. And I look forward to having them behind me. And obviously, no surprise that the UFC is blowing it out with three huge fights. And, you know, And Androj and Chevchenko might be the smallest of the three. But I'm really

excited to see what Jessica can do, given her wealth of UFC and championship experience against the seemingly unbeatable Valentina Shevchenko. So you'll be seeing me trying to give that fight some shine leading up to April 24th, Mikey. Yeah, that's a good one. And then obviously, Zhang Wei Li versus Rosnami Eunice is just a dream. We've got the power and the speed of Zhang Wei Li, the international appeal against the sharp, crisp, unbelievable boxing of Rosnamu,

Eunice who's looking to get her title back. I mean, this is the stuff that dreams are made of, John. This is like a fantasy fight for 115 pounds, which is such a loaded division and it never let you down. I'm waking up at 6.30 a.m. tomorrow to do media for a couple of Chinese outlets. We got to rip early in the morning. So hopefully I can put a sentence together. at that hour. But it's been a while, right? And you talk about capitalizing on momentum when it

comes to Francis and Ghanu. You know, that's one of the best things you can do as a UFC champion or a high-level fighter is to stay in the consciousness of fans. And even if you want to say that fight week for Kevin Holland against Derek Brunson wasn't a super productive week, he remains in the consciousness of fight fans and looks like he might have another big opportunity here on the horizon. So I can't wait to see Zhang Wei Lee back. I can't wait to see Rosenomai Yunus on the proven ground. Of course, you know, when people ask me, Mike, what's the most memorable moment I've had in that broadcast booth? It's Rosnami Unis against Ioanni and Jacek. And this is the division that is deepest in the women's game.

And by a significant margin, I mean, go look at the women ranked 10 through 20. I know you all aren't privy to the 15 through 20 necessarily, but go look at the top 20, 25 at 115 pounds. There are a lot of challengers waiting for Zhang Wei Li. And by the way, I just watched back the fight between Zhang Wei and Yonni and Jach. and I don't know, man. I kind of thought Yohanna might have won the fight, right? So Yohana's right there, and you know that she wouldn't need much notice to come back and be in a championship setting again. So, yeah, man, we're in a good spot.

I mean, when you see some of these media outlets lay out all the big fights that are on the horizon in the next three months, it is a nice way to kill a football off season. I can tell you that. I have to go back and watch it again more closely. I actually scored it for Yohanna fight night because I had to do a little bit. like round by round coverage and score every round. I actually scored it for Yuana on fight night. It was, but it was so close. Like, there's no robbery in any way, but it's just one of those fights that could have

absolutely gone either way. It's the definition of it. I think the helmet, the helmet kind of hurt Yona by the end of the fight. And the guy was just watching it back at DC at one point in round four. He's like, oh, right on the bubble, right on the bubble. I'm like, really, bro, really? But yeah, no, I very much look forward to the future of the. that division and to see if

Zhang Wei Li can defend this belt again because obviously she was taking the deep waters in that previous defense. Absolutely. And then we're going to do it all again with the fans the following month. UFC 262, May 15, Charles Olivaire versus Michael Chandler to crown a new lightweight champion. But we just

found out earlier this week, the co-main event will be Leon Edwards versus Nate Diaz. And not only is the co-main event, it's the first ever five-round non-title co-main event in UFC history. So when you found out about this piece of business, John, were you as shocked as everybody else seem to be? Well, this is why this is the greatest sport in the world. It really is. And yes, I did not

see this one coming a mile away. You know, Nate Diaz is obviously strategic when it comes to matchups and fights that he picks. And he, unlike most fighters in the space, can really call his shot because everybody would sign on the dotted line. You know, I used to say to Dominic Cruz at 135 pounds, find me a bandweight that's going to say no to the Dominic Cruise fight coming off a win. You know, unless you're the number one contender, you are. are absolutely going to take that fight. So there are a lot of different layers, a lot of different wrinkles to that particular matchup. I love the fact that it's five rounds. But how about the fact that like the Super Bowl is every February and we know it, right? But with the UFC, it's like all

of a sudden a fight like this can seemingly come out of thin air. It's six weeks away. And it feels like the Super Bowl. Like I'm going to Houston, Texas. That feels like the biggest sporting event of the year. And by the way, UFC 261 kind of feels like that as well. So that's a lot. something that's very unique to our sport is that all of a sudden two months out a sporting event that's as big as any on our calendar all year can just surface. And Nate Diaz, Leon Edwards could obviously be headlining a pay-per-view. Thankfully, they get five rounds to settle their business, and it's a few short weeks away. Yeah, Oliver versus Chandler for the lightweight, Tyler. What are your thoughts on that one? Because obviously, I think we all knew that the Habib train was

going to go to the coaching side. He's done a great job thus far. He's going to continue that on this weekend. But, you know, what are your thoughts on this particular matchup being made? Because a lot of people are like, oh, where's Justin Gagy in this whole thing? What are your thoughts on this one? Yeah, I can't speak to why Gachey is not a part of this equation. I mean, certainly his resume is as good as anyone's. I think Dustin Porey is the guy hardest to deny a championship opportunity, undisputed or otherwise right now, but he has business to, to attend to with Dustin Porey. This is the fight that makes sense. And even if you go to Dustin Porey's comments after the win over Connor McGregor in January,

Charles Olivera was really the name on the tip of his tongue. I mean, he acknowledged that this trilogy with Connor for a belt or otherwise was going to be completed. But Charles Olivaura, don't sit here and knock his strength of schedule, you know, whether it's Tony Ferguson with his extended winning streak or Charles Oliverer, the one that's active right now. You put together a winning streak like this at 155 pounds and you cap it with a win over Tony Ferguson. Charles Olivera is championship worthy.

And, you know, I don't know that you can penalize Michael Chandler for the lack of UFC experience. I mean, he certainly maximized his first opportunity and did to Dan Hooker what a lot of elite level lightweights weren't able to do. And Chandler's so humble, he'll say, oh, Paul Felder and Dustin Porier soften Dan Hooker up for me, you know, because he's a man of humility. But I am not somebody who's going to turn his nose up when a guy gets a championship opportunity. So is Chandler as deserving as Charles Olivera, who's been in the UFC since he's. 20 years old, probably not. But I think it's a very exciting fight. I think it's essentially a

pick-em. I haven't seen the betting line, but it's a pick-em fight to me. And we'll see if Charles Oliver can keep it going. I think he'll be a slight favor. We'll see. Yeah, I think you're probably right on that. And a good thing about Chandler, too, is when that phone rings and they say, Michael, you want to fight this guy in two weeks or three weeks? He says yes. And he was rewarded with this fight. And good on him. I'm happy to see him come over, get that big win and now he gets a chance to become a champion. This is this is big stuff for, for a great guy in this sport and is kind of going back to the Leon Edwards and A. Diaz fight, as shocking as finding out that fight is how I reacted to it. And as interesting as this news was, you can't help

a feel for Anakin Florian podcast family member, Belal Muhammad, who got his big opportunity to fight Leon Edwards. He gets poked in the eye. The fight is stopped. And he kind of gets left behind here. So what do we do with Balal now, John? I know he's one of the, Fastest Rising Game Show hosts in MMA right now, he should still get a big fight, right? Come on now. I love the game show, and we all appreciate the plug of Ballal's video podcast. Friday nights now on the Anakin Florian podcast YouTube channel, I believe, but you got to give him a main event. I mean, that's really the simple answer, Mike. You give him a main event because this main event essentially got taken away from him.

And I understand why the promotion is moving forward with Leon Edwards. I feel for Belal not having this fight come around again, but I don't think he was surprised to see them go in this direction. Maybe he was surprised to see Nate Diaz kind of come out of nowhere. But I think the writing was on the wall in terms of Leon Edwards getting a fight with somebody in that top five or top three even. And Nate Diaz is an outlier the way Jorge Mosfidal is. It doesn't matter what number is next to his name.

He represents one of the biggest fights in the sport, and you take that fight every day of the week. you just got to give Bilal a main event. And I think that might get one of the elite welterweights to sign on the dotted line because it would be a five-round fight. So that, to me, is the way to make it right with Bilal. And hopefully he pushes for that because there's a lot of residue that comes with that that's good for a fighter when you're building yourself the way Bilal is.

So hopefully he and Ali Abdelaziz can really be forceful about that request. because to me, if the Edwards fight doesn't come around again, the only way that Team Muhammad can make it right is to make sure that his next fight is a main event. So we'll see if they can get it done. Well, sir, we could go another hour at least with everything going on in the world of the UFC. Thank you as always my man. Make sure everyone checks out the latest Anakin Florian podcast recapping 26. I know Ray Longo, as always was there.

But did I see it right? You caught up with the great Brian Stan? We did. So I only bother Brian Stan. with fight predictions when it's a big fight. So I texted him before Steepa and Francis, and he was super convicted in his belief that Francis in Ghana was going to win the fight.

So then the fight played out the way it did. Not that I was giving him a chance to sort of puff out his chest because he's the last guy in the world that would do that. But I just wanted to hear his thoughts on Francis and the evolution because I think Brian was one of the guys who sort of believed in him from a very early time. And Brian was not the least bit surprised to see to see the Cameroonian finally breakthrough.

So always good to hear from the greatest living American. You know that. You're the man, John. Appreciate it, as always. And enjoy the fights on April 10th. Hopefully you get that ABC jacket, man. It would be so cool to see. From your mouth to Glenn Jacobs' ears.

Thank you, buddy. Thanks, man. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.