MMA Fighting - What the Heck: Episode 6 | Michael Chiesa, Ryan Hall, Eryk Anders, Julia Avila & Ike Villanueva

Episode Date: May 7, 2020

This week on What the Heck, Mike Heck speaks with UFC middleweight Eryk Anders (4:58), UFC women’s bantamweight Julia Avila (23:32), No. 14 ranked UFC featherweight Ryan Hall (42:12), one of the newest members of the UFC roster, Ike Villanueva (1:19:51) and No. 8 ranked UFC welterweight Michael Chiesa (1:41:52). Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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What the heck? Well, hello there, everybody. Welcome to a brand new edition of What the Heck on MMAfighting.com. My name is Mike Heck. Thank you so much for watching or listening to the show this week. And what a week it is, everybody, because for the first time since right around March 9th or so, we can say it's fight week for the UFC. Sports are back.

MMA is back and it is back on Saturday night emanating from Jacksonville, Florida. UFC 249 and this card is something else. Of course, the fight everyone's been talking about the main event for the UFC interim lightweight title, Tony Ferguson, taking on Justin Gachi, co-main event, Henry Sehudo, defending his Banimway title against Dominic Cruz. I am so fascinated by that fight. I can't even begin to tell you. I think that's the storyline of the entire card.

Obviously, all eyes are on Ferguson and Gaichi, but storyline-wise, I'm a big storyline guy. Sohudo versus Cruz has all the stories. Very excited for that. Then we got Francis Ngano versus Jarazini Rosenstrike, huge fight in the heavyweight division. We got Jeremy Stevens versus Calvin Cater. Huge fight, 145 pounds, which, by the way, if you miss it, I did speak with Calvin Cater on Monday. That is up on the MMA fighting YouTube page. You go ahead and check that out after you watch his show, of course.

You got Greg Hardy versus York and to Castro. That rounds out the main card. The prelims are fantastic as well. I mean, Anthony Pettis versus Donald Seroni is on the prelims. That's how crazy this card is. A lot of great matchups coming up on Saturday night and over the next nine or so days. And even more than that as well,

we're going to talk a bunch about UFC 249 on the show this week. And after Saturday, short break, back at it again on Wednesday night on ESPN Plus. Anthony Smith versus Glover-Teshire will headline that event. And then next Saturday, May 16th, Walt Harris versus Alastor Overeem will be the main event for that card. A lot more on those events coming up on the program as well. There's, of course, a lot of other things to discuss.

We're going to save those for another time because we are loaded this week on what the heck. So let's run down the lineup and we'll get right to the first interview. Closing things out, the main event, so to speak, a man who, as you'll hear, wants to be the new commissioner of Fight Island. Michael Kiesa. We're going to talk about his Instagram post last week, which made some headlines, where that all came from, how he's found his new professional rival. Plus, we're going to get his perspective on some of the big fights happening this Saturday at UFC 249. Before that, we're going to check in with one of the newest members of the UFC roster, Ikeville and Aueva. As we confirmed and was first reported by my good friend Nolan King on Friday night, Ikeville and Oweva will fight the returning Chase Sherman on Wednesday night.

in Jacksonville. And for those who have followed my career, pre-MMA fighting, I spent a lot of time interviewing a lot of the up-and-coming fighters, guys who are on the cusp of a UFC call, a lot of prospects. And Ike is one of those guys, and at the age of 36, he is finally getting his shot. If you don't know who the hurricane is, you're going to learn all about him later on in the show. The Wizard himself, Ryan Hall is going to join us a little bit later on. What a fascinating guy he is. He was scheduled to face Ricardo Lomas this past weekend at that event in Oklahoma City. Obviously, it was postponed due to the COVID-19 pandemic, but the fight has not been rescheduled to this point, and Ryan's going to explain why. Plus, we talk about a variety of different things, including Ferguson versus Gachey, loved his breakdown on that fight.

It was just one of those conversations that I enjoyed so much that I actually lost track of the time. That's what happened. I mean, it's just a really good conversation. I really enjoyed it. That's coming up later on. I think you guys are going to dig that one. In around 20 minutes or so, you're going to hear from one of the fighters. A lot of folks have their eye on in the UFC women's bannamweight division.

Julia Avila, the raging panda, is going to join us to talk about her scheduled fight with Carol Rosa, being off the table, not once, not twice, but three times. And also when she may be able to get back into the Octagon to build upon her successful promotional debut back in July, a unanimous decision win over Penny Kianza during International Fight Week. But more importantly, Julia is, doing amazing things in the fight against the coronavirus. You'll hear all about that and a lot more shortly. But first, let's check in with a man that's returning to the Octagon over this trio of events

over the next nine days. That is going to be your boy, Eric Anders. But before he heads to Jacksonville to take on Christopiottgo on May 16th, he's going to join us right here on what the heck to talk about the fight, preparing and sharing the card with his good friend, Walt Harris, and much more. Here he is, your boy, Eric Anderson. All right, we are being joined by your boy. Eric Ganders will be back in action in around a week's time.

May 16th, it's going to face Christoph, Yaco in Jacksonville, Florida. The UFC is back, and so is Eric Ganders. Eric, how are you? Man, doing awesome, man. Thank you for having me. Absolutely. This has been quite the road for everybody, and this fight was supposed to happen on April 11th in Portland. And now you got the same matchup just around a month later.

from talking to you for so many years, even before your LFA days, something tells me outside of the actual date on the calendar that not much has changed for you. Is that accurate? Man, yeah, not much at all. You know, we've been training pretty much just, to be honest with you, kind of ignoring the coronavirus. And I think, you know, me and I know my kids and, you know, maybe two or three other people from the gym probably already had it in early January, you know, bug kind of came through that nobody everybody just kind of wrote it off as the flu so you know I'm good I'm sure I already got the antibodies and everything so I'm just ready to show up and fight now yeah that's something I was thinking about as well because I never really get sick like I have seasonal allergies

and that's the worst it gets for me throughout the year but in February my seven-year-old got sick I got so sick I was I was in bed for a week straight and never felt that way before so I probably had it, right? Yeah. Man, my youngest son slept for literally 24 hours and he never sleeps. And he was sick, not feeling good and all that other good stuff. And man,

you know, his wrestling coach came to the gym and was training and working on some wrestling and stuff like that. And he was like, yeah, I had it. My wife was a nurse. I didn't get tested for it, but she got tested for him and was positive. So she

had it. I had it. And I'm sure, that, you know, several kids on that, on that wrestling team had it as well. Sheesh, what a wild time, huh? You know, but, you know, everybody's over it now, so it's all good. You know, sports are, you know, starting to come back online and whatnot, starting with the UFC. So, you know, I'm super happy to be a part of the organization that's kind of putting the pedal to the medal and making things happen. So once this fight got officially postponed, you just kept training, going about your every day life and when the phone eventually rang, you were ready to go. Yeah, man, you know, I pretty much

live in the gym and train all the time. So, you know, outside of like my diet and more like cardio sessions and things like that, you know, I pretty much doing the same thing anyways. So what has it been like, you know, being in Alabama? Like I know it's under a lot of the same restrictions as the rest of the country. So how have you been sort of handling the day-to-day structure of training and getting ready. Man, you know, like I said, we never stopped training even when they said shut the gyms down and all that other good stuff. We were supposed to fight in April, so Walt and I were supposed to fight in April.

So we just decided to keep grinding, keep, you know, keep training, keep working. And then, you know, we even got, you know, snitched on. Some ladies came up for the gym. I don't know who she is. And we didn't get her license plate number or nothing like that. But she came up to the gym, was looking in the glass. saw his training and turned around and started pushing buttons on the phone. So we all know what that is.

And then five minutes later, the police showed up said we had to go. But as soon as he left, we finished our training session and then took off. So, I mean, I really don't think that's changed is like the times that we train because, you know, people are like that. And we do have to like sneak around the other than covering the night and whatnot. So, you know, we might train at like 12 noon one day and six at night next. So the time of training is really the only inconsistent thing yet. What's like the sleuthiest thing you guys have done to get a training session? If you had to block the windows or anything like that?

Like, because, you know, you don't want to get snitching on again. Man, we were going to do that, but we actually opened up a bigger location right down the street. So, you know, we just kind of acted like we were doing construction and stuff and laying mats down. And the new spot, like the front of the building faces away from the highway so you can't see inside unless you drive past it. So, you know, it's, we haven't been snitched on yet. So hopefully we get past these next two weeks and, you know, that, you know, it is what it is. That's pretty rough, man, that someone would just snitch on you like that. Like to each their own, and I understand like people are, you know, they look at the coronavirus in different ways.

And I guess you have to kind of agree with all the stances here. but to have someone actually like look in the window, looking for trouble like that, like that had been a little bit frustrating, right? Yeah, man, you know, she was gone before anybody could get to the door. And, you know, in hindsight, you know, I wish that she wouldn't have been, you know, I ought to give one of those in her face before she called the police. So, you know, give her a reason, you know. There you go.

So when do you guys all head out to Jacksonville? I know it's like a seven-hour drive from where you're at, but a short flight, That has to be pretty convenient. When are you guys going to head out? We're leaving on Tuesday. You know, I usually, when I fly to 85, man, you know, that weight cut can get a little drastic and, you know, flying on the plane makes you, like, retain water, at least me anyway. So I usually try to get in on Sunday.

I said we can only get in on Tuesday. So I think we get in at, like, you know, 6 p.m. on Tuesday evening. So still enough time for me to get to the hotel, get checked in, go for a run, and do what I need to do, get a workout in. So, you know, we're just, yeah, we're flying, though. We ain't driving, no more. So you're going to fight Christoph Yaco, who, if you look at it, in terms of recent activity, there's a lot of similarities there.

Like, both of you were in the middle of three-fight losing streaks. Both were able to bounce back and pick up back-to-back wins, and both of you were heading into this fight coming off a split decision win in your last fight. Had you been aware of, like, the similar road you guys had been on heading into this one? Man, you know, I know that he was in the top 15 at one point. I really didn't know until just the other day that he had a three-fight losing streak. I thought he had lost, you know, one or two because I know that Brad Tavarice and Uriah Hall put him out. So, you know, I figured that, you know, he had lost two.

But I knew he won his last two or three. And, you know, confidence is a really big part of, you know, the fight game. You know, you may not necessarily be the best. fight are in there, but as long as you think you are, you know, you can probably do a little damage or whatnot. So, you know, I think he's riding, you know, winning, having a win streak like that, you know, it's super crucial for your confidence. So I'm sure he'll come in there and, you know, try to implement his game plan and try and take me out like he's done the last three. How do you like this fight from like a stylistic perspective? I know you, you more or less

focus on yourself. I mean, he does have some finishes on his record, but I think most would agree that should this fight not go the distance, you'd probably be favored in that regard if we're looking into the future. But what are your thoughts on Christoph as an opponent? Man, you know, he finds a way to win. And that's all the matters at this point. You know, getting that hand raised, collecting a full check and then taking it to the house. So, you know, he's, you know, obviously found his niche and, you know, got back on the winning streak and, you know, probably looking at a, is he on two or three fight winning streak? Two.

So he's probably looking to be on a three-flight winter street. You're a very relaxed individual in regards to this crazy fight game we love so much. I've talked to you so many times at this point. Like, you don't talk a lot of trash. If an opinion needs to fly, you let it fly as needed. But for the most part, you approach each fight pretty much the same. Do you need to find any extra motivation of these fights? Like, is there anything that you look at to sort of add to your intensity in any way heading into May 16th?

Not really, man. You know, the main competition is with myself. As long as I go out there and do what I'm capable of doing and performing how I know I can perform, you know, it's going to be a short night for me. So I just got to go out there and be me. One aspect of this event, you mentioned it, that's really cool, is that you're going to be sharing this card with Walt Harris. He's going to headline against Alistair Overeem, and that's going to be his first fight since the tragic news of his stepdaughter surface. And as a father myself, I can't imagine what he has gone through over the last several months. but to be on this card with Waltz, to be there with him for Fight Week as you guys look to advance your careers,

this could be a pretty memorable night for the both of you guys. What does that mean to you? Man, it means everything. I think the last time that him and I fought on the same card was on a local promotion here in Birmingham. I was actually an amateur. I think it was 2012, maybe. I won, and he went out. I can't remember who I fought.

I know I won, though, and then he went out there and knocked out. Josh, I can't remember the guy's name, but he was an American top team guy. So, man, he went out there and knocked that guy out. And, you know, we're looking to repeat the similar results come May 16th. You seem to roll with each and every punch that comes your way, but especially in these times. Does it make things a lot easier having a guy like Walt, another friend or teammate, on the same car with you? Even if it's just to talk about other things besides fighting? Man, you know, it's, I think training with Walt has he's getting ready for a fight and I'm getting ready for a fight.

Man, I think we're both looking really good right now. You know, I think that Jocco's biggest asset that he has in this fight is speed. But, you know, Walt's got it dialed in. And I, you know, wanted to take the Pepsi challenge on who has the fastest hands in the middleweight, light heavyweight and heavyweight division. And I bet you that he would win. he's that you know for sure without a doubt in the heavyweight division he's got the fastest hands probably in light heavyweight and middleweight division too i know he doesn't fight in those divisions but my point is man i'm going again i'm you know every day i'm training

and sparring uh with the guy who you know he can do everything jaco does and uh you know it's faster than jaco is so you know i think yeah the hardest need to replicate speed and you know I've been seeing it for the last five months now getting ready for this fight so yeah you know I don't think that May 16 will hold any surprises for me has he has he asked you about being a headliner in a UFC fight before like you've been there before he hasn't this will be the first time he's headlined an event have you talked to him about you know the differences of what it feels like to be in a main event as opposed to being on a main card or an undercard?

I mean, man, obviously, you know, the main difference is the, you know, the two extra rounds, but, you know, back, they were supposed to headline in December. And I remember having a conversation with him, like, man, you, you know, you get a little main event bonus. You know, you get a little extra bread for being the main event. And, you know, that was probably the more exciting thing to him than anything else I had to say. So I think at the end of the day, it's, it's money that makes the world go around.

them, you know, gets guys, you know, ready to get in there and go fight. So, you know, you can go collect a few checks, you know, if you're the main event. Main event bonus, you know, I would imagine him getting a knockout bonus or a performance bonus. So, you know, he should be sitting pretty after this fight. Much like that show back in the day on the regional circuit, you're going to be setting the table for Walt. How do you set this all up for him in Jacksonville on May 16th? Man, I go out there and get a knockout, you know, uh, You know, give them something to chase, a little motivation. And I'll be like, you know, you go out there and sleep somebody.

You're definitely running for that performance bonus. And, you know, that's also something that we fight for. Because that bonus, when it hits your account, man, I'm telling you, there's not much better feeling in the world to open your account on a Monday, eight weeks after you fought. You probably already forgot. And then, boom, an extra 50 grand in there, you know. You know, I'm smiling right now.

I've had a few of them. I want another one. So, you know, I got bills to pay and kids to feed. So, you know, I'm going out there to put in work. Is it going to be a little weird for you fighting in an empty arena? I mean, you're so used to fighting in front of big crowds. I mean, even at the University of Alabama, like massive, massive crowds and to the UFC and through the regional scene, you probably still fought in front of sold out venues. Is it going to be a little strange fighting in an empty arena?

I don't think so, you know. You know, I got a fight in the same under the state. same conditions that Christoph has to, so I can't let it affect me more than it affects him. So, you know, my philosophy has always been like, you know, UFC and Madison Square Garden to an empty parking lot. It doesn't matter. Whatever's on the contract, I'll be there and I'll fight at whatever venue under whatever circumstances. So, you know, it really doesn't even matter to me, you know, people are in attendance, you know. I think it actually kind of helps the UFC a little bit and fighters because everybody,

if you want to watch sports, you have to watch UFC and you have to watch it on TV. So, you know, everybody's going to be watching. So, you know, you go out there and you sleep somebody, you go out there and put it on a hell of a hell of a performance and, you know, get all the recognition and everything that comes with it. So, you know, empty. It may be empty inside, but, man, there's going to be. millions of people watching.

So it's all good either way. It's a great way of looking at it. And, you know, how do you feel about how the UFC is handling all this with all the testing and everything? I know you're going to be tested before you even get to the hotel and then tests every day. They're setting you guys up in separate locker rooms with all the amenities that you need to make weight and get ready for the fight. How do you like this from a perspective heading into this one? Like I said, man, I'm pretty sure I already had it. So, you know, it's whatever.

You know, like I said, everything that I had to do, you know, Christop's got to do as well. So, you know, I think it's going to come down to who handles, you know, the intangible things, you know, a little bit better. And, man, you know, I just really don't care, you know, about, you know, I know they're going to have to stick the thing up my nose. That's going to suck, especially because, you know, this right one, I don't know if you can see, but it's crooked.

It doesn't even work. My left nostril, excuse me, it doesn't even work. So, you know, I'm down to one nostril already. So I don't know how many times they're going to be able to test me. I know you're focused on May 16th, but you have been one of the more active fighters on the roster and in that division. So, you know, I don't know how they're going to handle things moving forward. But with the UFC looking to fill up their schedule, if all goes well next Saturday, would you want to try and turn around quickly and get right back in there? You're just going to sort of take things day by day?

July would probably be more preferable because, you know, my wife and kids and I are going on vacation to Brazil. I think I'm 28 to 28 through the 11th. So, man, if you think I'm doing any physical activity after a fight, especially on vacation, I may go roll. I may go do some jits and stuff, but, man, I'm not going to be out there running miles and doing hill sprints and lifting weights and stuff. you know so you can cancel that you know i'm going to enjoy the vacation with the family it'll be my oldest son's first time in brazil so i don't want anything else on my mind but you know showing them a good time and you know eating lots of asailles and faysiawada and all that other good stuff that they got down there and if you get that bonus you can show them an even better time in braille

right i get the bonus well the bonus doesn't get here for like eight more for eight weeks after the fight so you know i don't have that to rely on but uh that fight check comes in on Monday. So I'll be good to go. I wanted to ask you about this because we found out earlier today as we record that the legendary head coach of the Miami Dolphins, the winningest head coach in NFL history, Don Shula passed away at the age of 90. And as everyone knows by now, you played college football at the University of Alabama. And before Nick Saban took over, Don's son, Mike, was the head coach at Alabama and recruited you for the program. It's obviously, you know, a very tough day from Mike and the rest of the family. But I'm wondering if

you had met Don Shula at any point and how you reacted to the news from earlier today. Man, is he really the winning as coach? Yeah. Ooh, I lost a bit. Oh, no. I didn't know. I thought that he was just known for the undefeated season or whatnot. So I owe my son some money now.

Good thing to fight him son. But yeah, yeah, I never met Don Shula, but, man, everybody knows his resume. And, you know, Mike Shula, his son is actually. actually the guy who recruited me at Alabama. So, unfortunately, I never got a chance to meet Dawn, but I know the rest of the Shula family. Yeah, definitely. My condolences go out to them as well.

Yep, same with me. But on a positive note, here we go. We're less than two weeks away from the return of your boy, Eric Anders, taking up Christoph Yako. Whether you're with this return or not, sports and fights are back this Saturday. They'll keep on going, including this amendment on May 16th. Eric, thank you for the time. All the best of you for the rest of training

and in the fight itself on the 16th, man. Man, thank you so much. Thank you for having me. Always great catching up with the former University of Alabama football standout. Eric Anders ahead of his fight with Christoph Yotko next Saturday, May 16th in Jacksonville, Florida. That story of him and his team getting snitched on at the gym was pretty wild, but best of luck to you, boy,

next Saturday night in Jacksonville. Now let's check in with the raging panda herself, Julie Obila. Not only his should be doing great things, in the cage recently in her career, but she's doing even better things out of it in the fight against COVID-19. Let's get to that conversation right now with Julia Avila.

Hi, Mike Heck here for MMAFighting.com. We're being joined by one of the up-and-coming fighters in the UFC Women's Banimate Division. She had a successful Octagon debut over the summer, and despite the UFC's attempts to get her back in there between injuries to her opponent and now a global pandemic, we haven't been able to see that sophomore appearance yet,

but I wanted to check in with the raging panda, Julia Avila. Julia, how are you? Hi, Mike. I'm doing great. I'm so excited to talk to you today. Yeah, it's been a minute, but we're going to get into one incredible thing that you've been doing with this extra time in a couple of minutes. But from a general sense, how have you been enjoying the quarantine life in Oklahoma?

Absolutely, nothing has changed for me except that I work from home now. I've been blessed to still have a job, so I'm remote working. I still train an exorbit amount of times throughout the day. My home gym would put most big box gyms to shame. So I'm still working out, still keeping healthy. Still training. I have a couple of very select, I'm co-quarantining. So there's a very, very few people that I still see.

And some of them are my main training partners. So, you know, things really haven't changed for me. You see in some states, like, people are starting to lose their minds a little bit. Like, let's open things up. Like, we're all going to be okay. And then others are like, no, better safe than sorry. Like Massachusetts is really stepping up their game right now. Now everyone has to wear masks in public places, like all the time.

So, you know, how is Oklahoma in that sense? Is everyone just kind of dealing with everything and trying to be patient with it? Or is everyone just ready to break down the doors of their house and get outside and live normal again? So the people that I talk to on, you know, a semi-regular basis, most of the gym goers for the several gyms, they're still kind of a little hesitant to go out. Many of them either have family members that are high risk. I have a very close high family member that's high risk. And so we're all keeping careful. A lot of people were wearing masks. I was handing them out left and right. I had a couple left over at the post office when I was shipping, and I was like, here, do you guys have masks? Take them. So I think Oklahoma, all in all, they're ready, but they're cautiously, like, dipping their toe in the water. That makes sense. And this has been an interesting last few months for you because the last time we spoke was right after the new year and the fight with Carol Rosa was already scheduled for April 18th in Portland before all the COVID-19 stuff started rearing its ugly. had and we find out the event was postponed and then like maybe a week or two later we find out

that you're still going to fight Carol but on May 2nd in a location somewhere on earth and then everything got postponed again so as someone who really wants to get back in the cage and compete how difficult has this all been for you as a professional fighter it's been crazy and it was actually so Portland was rescheduled from the original date in October so that's right yeah because you're supposed to fight in Singapore too right yeah so I was scheduled to fight Carol three times. You know, contract signed and everything and never came to fruition. So honestly, I've said this from the get-go.

Like, I'll fight anyone at any time. You know, I'm ready. I think within, you know, a reasonable camp, like a couple weeks, then I should be good to go. So we're recording this on the night of May 1st. So tomorrow, as we speak, you're supposed to be fighting. Do you not even just look at dates on the calendar anymore? No.

I just, I mean, I don't really have an offseason anyways. I've told you this before. You know, I'm just constantly going. The only issue for me is that with the amount of activity that I like to do, I consume a lot calorically. So I just need those couple of weeks to make sure that everything is good because I am a professional and I don't plan on missing weight any time. ever. So I just, I'm always prepared. We'll dive more into the fighting in a moment. But the main reason

I wanted to have you on and you sort of mentioned it before is because especially in this space that we're in, it can be a very negative place. And you have been doing something very positive and incredible over the last month or so. To sort of lay down the groundwork, a month seems like a year right now. But in March, people were fighting in the stores for toilet paper, supplies were low and even like personal protection equipment, which is still so crucial right now, those are really hard to come by. Still is, as a matter of fact, but you decided to be part of the solution. Tell the folks, what do you've been up to over the last month or so?

So over the last month, I have been making face masks. I have a sewing machine. I got it years ago. I'm, so I said this to someone else. As much as I love to destroy in the ring, I really love to create. I'm a very artsy person, and I like to just make things. So one day I saw on Facebook that a hospital had requested a face mask and asked for seamstresses. And I looked at the mask.

I looked at the pattern. And I said, I can do that. I have the material. I have the stuff. And so I went ahead and I made a couple, and it was pretty fast. And then I hit up grandma. I was like, grandma, do you have these materials? And she said, yeah.

I'm like, all right, let's make face masks. And so she started making a couple, and I blazed through them, right? I made 70 in one day. She, I go, hey, grandma, do you have any more material? And she goes, yeah, you already went through all that? So, yeah, you know, people need these. She's like, well, how many did you do? I told her 70.

She said, just take all of it. I don't even want to help anymore. So I'm just cranking through them. And I saw that people on the neighborhood app, the neighborhood app, I saw that people were charging for them. I said, no, no, no, no, no, no. I will never charge for your safety because your safety is my safety, right? So the people that were charging, I hit them up. I, you know, direct message them.

And I said, hey, I'll give you some for free. just drive by my house and, you know, pick them up off the porch. I have a gun. I'm not fearing for my safety. So I just started handing them out. And I posted on my Instagram, you know, if anyone needs any masks, I did fundraise for my Portland flight. And I had the money. And every penny has gone towards making masks.

So, and for shipping, I've hit up several military, and made hundreds for them all across the U.S. So coast to coast, border to border. My brother lives in Brooklyn with his husband. And so I had it, you know, I sent them some. I have family in California. I have a lot of first responders that are family, family that are first responders. So I just started making them.

And a lot of old high school friends, they're hitting me up. And I said, yeah, here, take them, take them. How many do you want? How many do you need? What's your address? and I'll get them out as soon as I can. So I work full-time, train full-time, and whenever I get five minutes here, there, I make face mess.

How many do you think you've made? I mean, it's probably hard to count each and every one that you've made by, like, ballparking. How many do you think you've made so far? Over a thousand. Oh, wow. Yeah. It's tough because, you know, with everything you do with masks,

like take my wife, for example, she manages a very busy, periodontal office in Massachusetts. And, you know, they're deemed essential, but only in emergency situations only. But, you know, members of the state dental board wanted all of these businesses to donate all of their masks to hospitals and other essential offices. And that's great. And we all understand why. But, you know, what if emergencies came in and there's no masks? And, like, what if all the restrictions got suddenly lifted? There's no mask. So now you're like, you can't see any patients. You can't even open up. So things have been pretty hairy throughout all. this, but luckily, people like yourself have gotten very creative. You like to create these things.

And something, you know, especially at the mass, like not a lot of us thought about before. And it's something we really took for granted before all this happened, right? Yeah. And it's one of those crafts that are really, they're getting lost, like Helmec. You know, a lot of people don't know how to cook anymore. A lot of people don't know how to change their oil. A lot of people don't know how to sew. I really think it's something that I actually, a couple of my fans, They're like, hey, you motivated me to go buy. So they Amazon a sewing machine. They taught themselves, and they're now making face masks.

So, you know, if I can spark just a little change in a couple people, you know, to try something new or to help out, then I've done my job. And speaking of the fans, you've gotten a lot of support with all this, just with people sending you different supplies to assist you at this. And these masks, they're going anywhere and everywhere. like you said coast to coast, if they're needed, you're finding a way to get to them. What does that meant to you to have everybody just kind of chip in and help you out here? Oh, it's been amazing. I have so many loyal and just good fans. You know, they're not following me because they think I'm a pretty face.

They don't follow me because, you know, I'm a good fighter. Well, hopefully they think I am, but they follow me because they like me as a person. And, you know, that speaks to them. That speaks to the quality of them more than it does about me. And they've been really, really coming through and supporting and helping out, if anything, just to say thank you. Like, that means the world for me. I manage all of my social media platforms. And so I get to read all of the comments, all of the positive and negative.

and it's just been overwhelmingly positive just for people to see that there's hope. Well said. What's the furthest that you've gotten a photo that one of your masses appeared in? Like, is there one photo you've gotten? You'd be like, oh, my God, I can't believe it's gotten this far. Canada. Canada. So you're leaving the country now, too.

Coast to coast, border to border, and two in Canada. Wow. Is it kind of surreal once you saw the Canada of pictures? You're just like, whoa. this is just wild right now. I'm just glad that I'm making a difference. You see, you know, we're seeing what Connor is doing in Ireland and the news that it's made and you're getting a lot of support from your fans of this. And, you know, it's just incredible what

both of you guys are doing. And I know you're not looking for a pat on the back. It's just something that you've been compelled to do and you're inspiring other people to do that. And I'm going to give you a pat on the back anyways. But, you know, what is this all meant for you? Because, you know, you're not looking for a lot of credit here, but you're making a difference. difference and that still has to feel good even though you're not looking for that kind of credit. You know what I mean? Right. I, you know, I pursued fighting just because I felt like it was the platform that I knew I could

reach the most amount of people. And this was just another opportunity for me to do that. And I think, I think the hardest, what would hurt me the most is to not. be remembered. And if when I die, I just want to be remembered and I think positively. And so if I, like I said, if I make that one difference for one person, then it's all been worth it. So you're working full time, making mass, you're still training, you're still lifting weights, you're still bustling out squats, you're getting ready in case that call does come again from the UFC brass. You're not really asking for it. You're just staying ready. And once that call comes,

you're going to be ready to go as long as the time frame is appropriate. Is that accurate? Yes, sir. Earlier today on this Friday, May 1st, we saw Dana White talk to ESPN and we saw a good chunk of the May 13th and the May 16th events get revealed. And, you know, just kind of looking at the number of fights, there's likely to be more added on to both of those cards. And from everything I hear, May 23rd is out there, June 6 is out there. Have you been approached at all with anything at this point? At this point, unfortunately, no, but I know a lot of other people are very hungry to get back in the cage and a lot of other fighters need it. Again, I've been blessed to have my primary career, and so it's not a need for me to get back in that cage. It's just a want.

Sooner rather than later, you know, I'm not getting any younger, and I definitely want to make my, want to make my claim in the Bantam division. and I can't do that, you know, being at home. So hopefully I get something in the near future, June maybe, but, you know, anyone's willing to step up. I'm right here. I know you've mentioned before you're in any, anywhere, anytime, like whoever it is, like I'm ready to fight. But with Carol out of the picture and a lot of the international fighters

pretty much out of the picture right now, and it's still hard to even call anybody out at this point or hard to predict the future. but some opportunities could open up for you here because if you look at some different ranking systems, you're in the top 15 and in some of the sites different rankings at 135 right now. So you could have an opportunity to step up a couple of slots. Do you even look at the rankings right now? Is there anyone that might stick out that could make sense to you?

Or you just really don't even care at this point? I mean, I really don't even care. I really look up to Angela Kill, Angela Overkill. and I kind of want to be like her and just be like, hey, Dana, give me a fight, I'll be there. But, you know, I want to fight someone that's responsible. You know, I don't think jumping into the top five would be very responsible for me to do. I need a gain that ring, especially in the UFC because it's completely different.

But I need to gain that ring experience. And so, I mean, top 15, gosh, anyone really. I think I have to believe that I can eat all of them. So I do. Well, hopefully we can see you back in there soon. But especially because it's funny, people ask me all the time. Like, when's Julia Obelah going to fight again? I'm like, I don't know right now.

Like, nobody really knows anything. But I do want to bring this up because the last time we spoke, it's something that I remember through a lot of these interviews. You were very emotional when you spoke about your husband being deployed for the first time since you guys have been together. And it was understandably a very difficult time for you. But now he's back and you get to spend all the time in the world with him because everyone's under quarantine right now. So how great has it been to have him back home? It's been so amazing.

He actually came back or the night that he came back that very next day, they closed the borders to where he was at. And so the people, the U.S. citizens that were there are like there for a couple of months, I think. So it was pretty scary. And I'm so, so blessed that my, my soldier's back. It's been really nice. He, he kind of rains me in. If he weren't around, I would overtrain. because that's just what I do. And so he kind of like, even today he said, I did a conditioning round while he was sleeping. And he's like, I'm going to have to put a paddle off on all the gear and stuff

to keep you from doing things. But it's really nice. I'm super blessed to have him around and super blessed to have just his knowledge and his strength around me. Can he so? Is he helping you make, make mass at all? Or? No. He, he, he watches from afar. He keeps my, my coffee filled and my wine glass filled. See, he's essential right now. Oh, yeah, yeah. 100%. Julia, always, always a pleasure to have you on, especially on a Friday night. First time you've joined me on the new platform here, and it's certainly not going to be the last. I think what you're doing is amazing. I think a lot of people,

agree with me on that. So keep it up, keep fighting the good fight, keep staying positive because Lord knows we all need that right now. So I hope you get a fight book soon and that it actually happens this time. All the best to you, the husband, the dogs, everybody else. Thank you, Julie. I appreciate it. Thank you, Mike. Stay clean, but fight filthy. Kudos to Julia Obula, really incredible stuff that she's doing to help people out during this global pandemic, this unprecedented time. And I give her a lot of credit for all that she's done. even to the people who are helping her. And I know Julia is not doing it for the credit,

but I'm going to give it to her anyways. I think it's just amazing. But a lot of fans are obviously excited to see her back competing, and she's been ready to do so since September, October. It just hasn't worked out for a number of reasons that are out of her control due to injuries and obviously a global pandemic, which no one could have really prepared for. One of the fighters I've been wanting to chat with for a long time now is Ryan Hall, the season 22 champion of the ultimate fighter.

He's unbeaten the UFC. He had that great win against Darren Elkins that opened up a lot of people's eyes. He's starting to rise up the ranks. But as he's spoken about in the past, he's been having a hard time getting a fight that he deems worthy based on his rankings and based on his name. I understand where he's coming from. And he finally gets one in Ricardo Lamas and, well, a pandemic strike. So let's get to my conversation with the wizard Ryan Hall and see what he's been up to these days. right now. All right. So for a little backstory, if there is one person people have wanted me to chat

with over the last year or so, it would be my guest joining me right now. Not only that, but amongst the staff here at MMA fighting, I think this confirmation may have gotten more of a pop than if I booked Conner McGregor. How about that? Happy to be joined by The Wizard himself. Ryan Hall. Ryan, thank you for doing this. How are you, man? Not too bad. Thanks so much for having me on the show. I really appreciate it. And now I can't wait to disappoint everyone. that's not even possible but first things first how has quarantine life been treating you during this pandemic and this crazy time in the world oh man it's uh you know things are slow i think probably for for everyone i would say you know like the dc area is kind of interesting because life in a lot

of ways hasn't changed markedly it's just slowed down significantly you know i mean obviously the gym is closed training is not non-existent in any real sort of sense um you know we're doing we're when we can to stay afloat. I've got a series of full-time employees and people that I take care of. Obviously, you know, my wife and a little boy, spend the time with everybody. But it's just been kind of an interesting time. I wish, yeah, I don't know, it would be nice to be able to do other stuff, but in the grand scheme of problems, you know, mine are pretty small. How old is your little boy? 19 months, I think. He runs around and yells at everybody now and throws stuff.

And he's pretty entertaining little guy. There you go. So you're home with him all the time. So it must be nice at least to get some extra time with him, probably more so than what if you were training for a fight, maybe? Yeah, definitely, because I mean, I was supposed to fight, I guess, two days ago in Oklahoma City with Ricardo Lamas, but obviously that didn't happen, you know, as a result of all that's been going on. But it has definitely been a series of silver linings.

You know, I don't pay any attention to the news because it's mostly just, you know, nonsense, the same stuff every day and, you know, people change their opinions on things. So it's nice to just kind of disconnect as much as possible. and all I've done is work on finishing out this half guard instructional course that we've got going on on a website. We were fortunate to kind of, you know, be able to get the bulk of it done prior to the big portion of the virus or the, you know, the guess the fallout from the virus hitting. But I've been able to kind of put the finishing touches on that, try to get it out this week and spend a lot of time with family. And, you know, of course, looking forward to getting back to normal. But just doing what we can to do the best you can with what you have available.

when you say modern halfguard in regards to the video like what types of things are you going to focus on with that like let's just say there was someone who maybe trained jiu jitsu 10 years ago they took some time off but they're coming back because Ryan hall is putting out this video about the modern half guard what types of things will they learn that they may not have known 10 years ago well I can't speak to I guess what others might not know but I can say that you know my understanding of I've been I guess black belt and jiu jihitsu for for 10 years now and been competing at a at a at a good level for longer than that. And, you know, going to the MMA world is something that really has taught me, you know, so much about martial arts and a lot about myself and a lot about Jitsu itself and how I believe that it functions. And a lot of the understandings and the leaps that have been able to make have actually come not only from fighting and training MMA, but training in the other arts, whether it's, you know, boxing, wrestling, judo, tequando, Greco, Roman, things like that where it gives you another, it's almost like looking at the same picture of putting on a bunch of different lenses.

And as a result, you see different things. And, you know, and even almost you think about language, like the way that people talk, you know, let's say the way that you or I might explain something in English. And then just the order of description is different in some languages and other languages. There's maybe almost like metaphor instead of literalism in certain areas. And I guess what I'd say is we're all looking at or describing the same thing, but we see it differently and we see it through new eyes. And I think that that's really helped me to increase my understanding. as a whole of what I believe I'm trying to get done and what I believe I'm trying to do as a

jiu-jitsu practitioner and as a mixed martial arts fighter. And, you know, I hope to be able to impart a lot of that in the course. And I can just say that, you know, we've tried to do our best to be as comprehensive as reasonably possible. And rather than teaching you about my path, I try to teach you about what I understand as the path, I guess I would say, you know, the learning process for how to develop your own positioning and your own understanding. And I try to give you the thought processes that have been able to use to get some understanding but rather than just say, hey, here are my five favorite moves. And if your body type is just like mine and you have the specific surrounding skills,

you may be able to do it. I'm like, hey, well, this is kind of how I got to the bottom of what I'm up to now. And it may change going forward. But what do you think you should do and kind of put the ball in the learners court? Are you doing all the work yourself, like you editing and putting it all together yourself or do you have a team around you doing that? I'm fortunate that I'm not because, and I guess everyone is fortunate that I'm not, because whether you like or don't like what we're doing, it would be way worse if I edited it.

It would be dumpster fire. So basically, I'm on the instructional side and the organization side and I guess the learning methodology side. But we have people that are doing the editing and doing the filming. And I think they do a fantastic job. And I feel lucky to be working with them. Well, that's good that you're able to stay busy with everything going on in the world. Your fighting career, like we sort of alluded to, you've been trying to keep this momentum going. You had the two-year layoff heading into the BJ Penn fight.

You finish that fight in the first round. you come back a little under eight months later, had that fantastic win over Darren Elkins, and you were starting to get a little more active in there, and then a pandemic strike. So, I mean, were you starting to feel like, all right, man, the train's finally starting to leave the station, and now we have to park it again.

Yeah, I think it's a little bit like that. And I'll be honest, I personally blame, personally blame Kibna Madov and Tony Ferguson and by extension, Dana White for this. And, you know, because obviously it's fallen through five times, and it's a fight that you, I, and everyone else on planet Earth that cares about fighting with love. to see between, you know, arguably the very two best lightweights on planet Earth and certainly

the two most consistently successful. But, you know, I mean, there was the, Tony was about to fight, and then you're like, oh, man, I'm just over here to talk to my buddy. And oh, I blew my knee out walking around. You're like, what are the odds of that? I feel terrible for Tony. And then also you feel for her to be. And then we reschedule it. And then the universe strikes you with the pandemic. If we try to schedule another one of these things, an actual asteroid is going to hit the planet. There's no question in my mind that, uh, that, that, that, that, that, that, This may be the source of all of that. And I don't think I'm important enough to have any sort of influence on global or cosmic events,

but they may be. And I think I just might be the unfortunate recipient of the downside of that. So, you know, it was a shame wanted to want to compete with Lammas, wanted to compete again soon. It's been tough to really try to get opponents in there. I've been turned down or effectively turned down by a lot of different people. And there's a couple guys, you know, that have been holding up slots in the featherweight rankings that are, you know, obviously legendary characters in their own right, Frankie Eggers, Jose Alto. but seemingly have no interest in competing at featherweight,

but they keep everyone kind of in the back end of the top 15 a little further back, which makes it a bigger ask to say, hey, how are four and five doing? What about six and seven? What are those guys up to if the intervening people aren't available? So it's just, it is what in this situation, doing my best to improve and doing my best to learn. It has been frustrating to be out of touch,

you know, at least physical touch with my coaches. Obviously Canada's closed right now, both in terms of travel and also in terms of gym operations. So getting up to C for us isn't an option. You know, I go to see Kenny, all the people that I usually bring back and forth. That's not an option. So a little bit on my own at the minute. And, you know, we're just doing the best that we can with what we can and hope to be better for the next fight.

I want to go back to the BJ fight because we hear stories all the time. These sort of idols become rivals types of fights or a fighter watch as a certain competitor over the years. They get into the UFC and all of a sudden you're standing across the octagon from someone that you've looked up to. and watched for so long. What was that night like for you standing across from a guy like BJ Penn and then beating him? That was surreal, man. I really, I really, you know, really have always looked up to BJ

and he was one of my heroes as an MMA fighter. You know, he was one of the guys carrying the flag for jihitsu, but he was also absolutely, you know, more than just a grappler and more than just a jihitsu guy. He was the first American to win the world championships. And Black Belt was a phenomenal achievement. Was so successful. He almost ran himself out of competition.

You know, fought it. heavyweight, fought Leotamachita, heavyweight? Like, that's, that's insane to me. That's so cool. That's amazing. He's almost like Kizuichi Sakaraba in that, in that regard. Fighting anyone and everyone, you know, he has all of the qualities that you'd want. And I guess it's, obviously, I would have loved if I could have magically gone back in time and gotten to compete with 2009 BJ, maybe a little bit younger.

But, you know, even at the time, it was still a fantastic challenge. He's a great grappler. The second that we tied up on the fence, you can always feel. as someone with a lot of experience. When you touch someone and they start to move, you go, whoa, this guy is this guy's really good. It's not just that they're strong. It's not just that they're fast.

It's, wow, you can feel the subtle adjustment that they're making as you're going. And it was pretty cool to be able to feel that. And I will say this, when he almost popped me in the head, I was like, oh, crap, this is real. And, you know, BJ may be your hero, but that won't stop him from putting your teeth in the third row. So I was glad to be able to get out of there

without too many bumps and bruises and to be able to pick up a win over someone that I really respect and look up to as much as him was a really neat experience. And also it was, you know, managed to get Diego Sanchez way back in the day in grappling, Graham Maynard so far, you know, and now BJ Penn, it would be nice to have the opportunity to try to compete against Jose Aldo at some point, another guy to look up to him respect and see if I can pick up that last loss in Avenge my old coach, Kenny. Are you surprised he dropped a 35? I mean, he actually looked pretty good. I mean, I think that was the talk of the entire Mariah's fight.

Like, it wasn't the fight it's up as whether or not Jose could make the weight. He made it. And a lot of people felt that he won that fight. What did you think of him dropping a 35? Yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head, man. I think when you said it's like there was so much talk about, you know, how is Jose going to look? What's going on? Because I remember he was a decent-sized guy at featherweight.

He's not a little guy. And, you know, obviously in the age of Ysada, things are a little bit different sometimes. I'm trying to point any fingers, but just, you know, that is the reality. sometimes and he made it down there he obviously looked okay looked like death at the wayans and then man he performed great and uh you know very arguably won that fight i remember thinking that that marlin wanted it the time you know but at the same time uh you know there are plenty of fights that i watch as a fan and and i you kind you're kind of caught up in it in the expectations of what you think is meant to happen or your feelings in the fight and then you go back and you watch it a couple

times again and you go oh that was what i thought it was or i i feel differently now so you know he very arguably won that fight a lot of people feel that way so So I guess I would say he performed really, really well. I think it was a little bit much that he was given the title shot, even though there's no question that Jose Alto hasn't in him to beat anyone at 135, anyone at 145. You know, you'd like to see a meritocracy, not just a can you get it done? And I guess that was an interesting thing.

But now to have him out of that fight as a result of the current situation, you know, you feel for Jose, because obviously, you know, he was lined up for that. But I wonder, will he stay at 35, will he come back to 45? You know, I guess there's just a lot of things in flux, but that was a great performance. That was a heck of a fight by him, a heck of a fight by Marias. And, yeah, it's just created such a tough situation all around because all the top guys at 135 are so competitive with one another. Same thing at 45. They can all beat each other on a given night.

And, you know, it does make it for a situation where whoever you give the title shot to, there's always going to be a little bit of sour grape somewhere because there's no clean cut. You know, this is the only guy that can get it done at this point. Yeah, because a lot of people seem to be a point. hose with Dominic Cruz getting the title shot. But for me, it was like, who else was there? I mean, Jan, like, Yons look great, but I don't think he's had that, like, signature top three, top five win yet. Sterling's hurt.

And then Sanhagen, again, he's a surging guy. He's the only one that would make sense. But if you're looking at it from a business perspective, you know, what's going to look better on a fight poster? What's going to sell more? Sanhagen, you know, versus Sohudo or Cruz versus Zahudo. It's going to be Cruz every single time, right? I think you make a good point, man. I mean, you know, I think, but at the same time, I can say that I feel for guys like Jan and, and Corey, who's a good buddy in mine, you know, it's funny.

We were, I remember when, um, Corey was actually at my house training when we were, when the Korean zombie Brian Rtega fight fell through. And I went and I immediately called and said, hey, guys, if you need someone to fly to Korea last second, I'm your dude. Or, you know, if you have four of the people that say no, just give me a call. And, because he was actually scheduled to fight Frankie Edgar at the time, obviously, you know, Frankie, you go down to 135, tough fight. in his first one against a great fighter like Corey. And I remember coming downstairs. I wake up at like noon that day. And I walked downstairs and Corey's like sitting on the couch with this like,

what the hell is going on? Look on his face. I'm like, you're right there, buddy? And he's like, yep, they gave the fight to Frankie. I'm like, well, huh. So they pulled Frankie out of his fight, put him in there with zombie. I was hoping to fight zombie. It was just an interesting thing how it all kind of played out.

And then since that time, Corey hasn't had the opportunity to fight. So it is tough for guys like Corey. guys like Peter Yan. And I honestly feel similarly myself. It's plenty of people that I know for a fact that I can beat in the top, you name it, anyone, any one of them. And I'm not saying that they couldn't beat me too. Fights a fight.

But a lot of times I go, man, if I were to say, hey, can I fight Brian Ortega or can I fight Joseato? People say, well, you don't have a win that justifies that. I'm like, well, that's fair for you to say. But the reason I don't have the opportunity, one of the reasons they don't have a win like that or perhaps a performance that may justify that is because other people won't step up and I don't get the opportunity. So you look at Dominic Cruz and you say,

is there anybody else on that Dominic Cruz level in the guys that you mentioned? And like you said, who's going to look like that's the fight on the fight card that I want? And as Dominic Cruz is deserving historically as anybody that we can imagine of this fight? Dang right, no question. Dominic is a champion of an athlete,

champion person who's had to deal with an unbelievable string of bad luck that, you know, for him to come back through that is staggering. It's an unbelievable achievement in addition to everything else that he's actually physically accomplished in the ring. But you also, so I can absolutely see you know, that fight, and I look forward to watching.

I'm excited to see Don back in there. I'm excited to see that fight. But at the same time, you go, man, you know, maybe Peter and Corey would have had the opportunity. Maybe they would be on that level, at least in our mind. And then as a result, potentially comparably deserving, at least at the minute, if they'd had more opportunity. So I guess it's tough. But like you said, fighting is sports entertainment and, you know, how things look on a poster

and the financial side of things is as much of a more of a reality than sometimes the competitive aspect. So if I were the one making the decisions and I was trying to, you know, put some, put some dollars in the bank and also, you know, bring back one of my great champions, I would put crews in there too. Yeah. And that was meant to be no disrespect to anybody because all of them are deserving. And I think Corey Sanagan's going to be a future world champion at some point. He's going to have that title around his waist at some point. But do they give you a reason why you didn't get given, you weren't given the Korean zombie fight? Or did you find out, you know, what had happened once Corey had told you? No, I guess you find out, all,

did was just say I'd like to throw my hat in my name of the hat and, you know, if you guys need a guy, because, you know, ordinarily I would only fight with a real fight camp. But then every now and then there comes an opportunity to make an asymmetric gain or an asymmetric gamble where you're like, hey, I'll be going to the other side of the world, which is a huge disadvantage. Like that's a pain in the butt, particularly the last second. I'll be doing it on, you know, limit almost no fight camp. I'll be doing it on, you know, having to cut the weight last second. But you're like, hey, this is a unique opportunity to compete against someone you respect, someone at a super high level. and Korean zombie and even to main event.

And you go, yeah, I would do that in a heartbeat. But, you know, so I just said, hey, I'm in if you guys need a guy. And, you know, of course, I guess they've gone a different direction by that point or they had elected to go a different direction. And I'm obviously not privy to the discussions as to who or why for the UFC. And, you know, they make the decision that they feel is right. And they brought the company to this point and they know what they're doing. But I still remember hearing, oh, man, well, Frankie's going to fight zombie.

And then he's going to fight Corey Sandhagen. And I was like, if there's one thing I know is not going to happen, it's that. And I'm like, because you don't fight a guy that's nicknamed zombie, generally speaking. And that's not an ironic nickname, man. And like, and walk out of that fight with no scratches. And if you do, that was, it's an act of God. And Frankie's obviously an amazing fighter. But, you know, sometimes the style that he fights, he's in it.

You know what I mean? He doesn't fight like Stephen Thompson. Doesn't fight like Wonderboy. And it's on knock. I'm as big a Frankie fan as anybody else. But I remember thinking at the time that that was probably an unrealistic thing for people to expect, you know, to have two back-to-back fights against two people that have a reputation for chewing guys up, win, lose, or draw, and hope that you get back in there. But you never

know what's going to happen, man. But I guess I just remember thinking at the time that was a little bizarre. Your last fight was against Darren Elkins. And that fight was crazy because you got to show some different sides of you that a lot of people hadn't seen before. You knocked them down several times in that fight. A very durable guy, as you obviously saw it in those 15 minutes. But the second round was crazy. You know, we were seeing spinning stuff and, you know, they were landing, you were knocking them down. Like, it had to open up a lot of eyes. Like, was that one of the more important fights of your career? Because, you know, although the striking game may have always been a big part of your repertoire, maybe nobody saw it before, everyone actually got to see it this time,

and everyone reacted to it in such a positive manner. Yeah, I mean, I'll be honest, it was really neat to get to compete against Darren. I really, really respect Darren a lot. He's super tough guy. Again, the damage is not an ironic nickname. This is a man who doesn't play around. and then also when you get a tattooed on your chest, you are committed, man. And I guess that was really cool because I remember the first time spinning and whacking him with the spinning kick and going like, all right. And then he just rises up. You're like, sweet baby Jesus, how is this man alive?

And then it just completely carries on and, you know, dropped him with a left hand, dropped him with a little left hand. I remember being parted with through the third round. You're like, I don't know if this guy's going away. And, you know, it's just that was neat. I was really happy to be able to show the, the things that I've been working on because, you know, it's funny. I feel like I haven't, I've only gotten four fights into UFC and then I guess the other

three on Ultimate Fighter. And so in the last period of years, I guess that would be seven fights since 2015, which is not a lot. But, you know, I've been training mixed martial arts for a long time, and I've been taking this seriously for a long time. And when I'm off, I don't, I'm not fiddling around. I am waiting for a fight. I am waiting for really good opponents and I'm preparing to fight the best guys.

and I guess the way that the career path that I've taken to this point is like, okay, I'll fight once a year if that's what you want me to do. But I want a big step up each time. I want a serious guy that I can't fiddle around with. If I'm not the guy, if I'm not significantly better in my, in this next fight than I was against Darren Elkins, I don't expect to do well because I'm asking for, you know, the best people available. And then if I manage to get past that guy, then I'll have to pull it off again. But I like to think that have shown some significant improvement in each fight. And, you know, I mean, coming into the BJ fight, I was off for two years. That wasn't, and I went up a weight class to face him. I didn't get to have him. I didn't get to fight him at 45, which would have been much more comfortable for me.

You know, I guess against Arden Lobov, I was, you know, I had a serious staff infection. I was still in antibiotics. I was really sick, and I had a torn ligament in my foot and did the fight anyway. Of course, it would never, you know, back out, but was able to overcome that. So I feel like the time off is sometimes a blessing and the opportunity to improve, but it's also a curse in that you don't really get to get into a rhythm. as you mentioned. You're like, okay, a fight here, then eight months later, like, okay, and then four months later,

okay, you kind of get into the feel of things. And maybe I don't ever really envision fighting as often as like a Neil Magny or Donald Seroni who fight twice the weekend if they have the opportunity. But it will be nice to get into sometimes three a year. But at this point, into this age of my career, I don't know if that's in the card. So I will continue to just do my best to improve.

And then, you know, you just say, give me the best that you have available when one of these guys is willing to sign up. And it was neat that Darren was willing to do that because there was no hesitation. I remember hearing from Sean Shelby, the matchmaker, that, you know, we asked Aaron, and he said, yeah, no, no hesitation. I'm like, that's my kind of guy.

So I really look, I really respect that. We're talking before we hit record here, and I was telling you about how this interview came to be and how people were reaching out to me saying, like, you got to interview Ryan Hall, and you were a little thrown back by that. But, you know, have you noticed the way that fans react to you now as opposed to maybe three or four years ago?

Because, like, for a while, you were the jiu-jitsu guy, at the ultimate fighter. people looked at you a certain way. And now, like, at least from what I see, you've gotten this, like, cult-like following. Like, you and Tony Ferguson are, like, the Chuck Norris of MMA. Like, they want to see Ryan Hall fight Francis and Ghanu now

and, like, all of these killers. I do not want to see that happen. Do I put you on this? Pointed stick? They put you on this, like, this pedestal. Like, it's, have you noticed a change in that aspect at all? I'll be honest. I, maybe I don't pay too much attention online.

If I'm honest, I don't go on Twitter. I don't really, you know, like there was a period. I remember right when the coronavirus thing happened, I started going on Twitter for information a little bit more often. Then I remember going to myself, looking myself in a day advice. Because I actually said that out loud. Oh, I'm going to Twitter for information. I'm like, what am I high?

Like, I'm just out of my damn mind. And then I've deleted it off my phone again. And, you know, I guess I would just say that, you know, Tony Ferguson deserves all of the things that people say about him as a tough fighter. I mean, the wind streak that he's put together, the guys that he's fought, you know, are phenomenal. I feel like I've done well each time and I've kind of put on like different types of unique performances

and I feel that each one of my fights to date has been dominant in its own way and I really have been hit like that. Forget the fights that's and that thing. That thing is, I don't know who got paid to invent that. But basically I think I've only been hit like seven times in my UFC career. And so I'm not fought bums. I mean, I fought Autumn Lobov, who's much much, and people make fun of Autumn and there's all the jokes,

but he is a tough fighter and he is a good guy. And he was, particularly at that time, he just knocked out three consecutive people, two of them out cold on Ultimate Fighter. And, you know, he had a great deal more experience. I did I'm fighting up at 155, which I've often done. I am 1505 pounds walking around. And that's not a lot of people joke.

Like, you know, fighting is the only sport where a man undersells his weight. But basically, you know, I'm about 155, 160 pounds walking around, which means that most of the people that I fight are 20 pounds naturally. heavier than I am. And at 55, that's, that's, that's, that's 45, that's, that's, that's more so. And then I fought Gray Maynard, a great fighter, tough guy coming down at tons of experience, you know, and then BJ Penn, obviously, you know, he's a little bit older, but he has a great

deal more experience. I do he's a bigger man naturally, fighting at his weight class, and then fighting Darren Elkins. He was a top 10 guy, you know, up until a couple of fights prior to that. Super durable, super experience. Lots of great wins managed to put on a good performance against him and get out of there without, you know, someone nicknamed the damage making that a big factor. And, you know, so I guess it's different. I'm definitely, you know, a different type of fighter than Tony Ferguson and maybe people like that. And I think that sometimes people, a lot of people undersell me, and then I think some of the other guys maybe oversell it a little bit. But I just want to try to do my best to learn and to continue to grow.

And I just hope for the opportunity to fight the best people. And, you know, I just would never mention myself in the same sentence as Tony Ferguson right now, given what he's accomplished in the UFC. I'd like to think I could do any number of different things, but the reality is that I haven't had the chance to do it yet. So I prefer to let the skills do the talking. As you mentioned, you were scheduled to fight Ricardo Lomas this past weekend in Oklahoma City. And obviously, with everything going on, that fight didn't happen. And I know Lomas did an interview recently.

He said that he still wants the fight. He hopes it gets rebooked. But have you heard anything in regards to this fight being rebooked? How are you handling your fight career with everything going on right now, looking into maybe your next fight? Yeah, I guess I remember I saw an email, or not an email, I'm sorry, an interview that Ricardo did where he said, oh, well, Ryan wanted the fight, nobody would fight him. I stepped up to fight him, and then he backed out. I'm like, yeah, because anyone with a brain in their head realized a couple weeks ago that that fight on May 2nd was never going to happen.

So I guess what I've been doing, my approach to this entire thing has been family first and the people that depend on me first. And my fighting career is very important to me. It's incredibly important to me. And honestly, it hurts a little bit to have to put it on the backburn. and see maybe, you know, I've watched a lot of good years of my career, you know, go by the wayside because of various things and not being able to fight. And that is, it is frustrating. At the same time, I look at guys like Damien Maya who, you know, he was 38 when he fought

Gunner Nelson at the, you know, in 2015, the same weekend that I fought the ultimate fighter finale. I mean, and Damien's amazing. He's 42 now. If he retires him, it won't be because he needs to. It will be because he's just decided that his time is done and he's going to go to other things. So it is nice to know that I mean I just turned 35. I don't have much mileage and I can continue to fight, but it is frustrating and it does hurt to watch that go away no matter how it is.

But I have to recognize first that I have a business and I have people that depend on me. You know, preparing for a fight takes a ton of focus, ton of time. And in most cases, a great deal of financial commitment from me, which all of which when it comes to the UFC is on the front end, which, you know, that's your responsible right now. I'm not rich. I'm not poor, but I'm not rich. And for me to put out, let's say, 20, 25K at a time like this, speculatively, I'd already put out $10,000 to get ready for that fight. And then had it canceled, I'm not getting any of that money back. And now, I don't regret it because I learned and I grew and I got the opportunity to train.

But, you know, MMA is a very speculative venture. I mean, you put the money out on the front end. Then you fight for half your purse in many cases. And then if you win, you get your full purse. But that is deep with speculative. And I've continually bet on myself and managed to have that pan out properly. But, you know, I don't look back on any of my fights and say it was impossible to lose any of them. Every single fighter that I've fought to this point, because I've only fought tough people and I've always asked for them,

has absolutely had it in them to beat me. And every single person that I fight going forward will have it in them to beat me. And as a result, there are no guarantees, and it's not a best of 10. So the better fighter doesn't win. The person who fights better on the night wins. And that could work for me and that could work against me. So I guess what I would say is if this gets rebooked, great. I respect Ricardo.

Ricardo's a great fighter. I don't care if he's not ranked. I was willing to fight out of the rankings if necessary because I don't handpick my fights. I handpick my fights in the sense that I am asking for only the best people. I am not trying to dodge challenges. I'm not trying to dodge anyone who's difficult. I'm not trying to dodge difficult style matchups. I think in many regards Ricardo is a difficult style matchup.

And I like that. I think that that's the sort of thing that makes you grow. But I guess if that fight gets rebooked, that would be great. if it doesn't and they're able to find someone else comparably or increasingly challenging, hey, I'm in. I'm here to know that I fought when it mattered and I stood across the cage from the people that were the best that I could at the time that I could for as long as I could. And then one day it'll be over.

But that's all I can really say. And I guess we'll just look forward to getting back to regular training, getting back to a situation where everyone can put their best foot forward and the chips will fall where they will. So if the UFC called you like in your management team tomorrow and said, hey, well, you know, we can rebook this fight for, you know, June 20th. Would that, would you say no to that? Yeah, I would say no to that. Because my gym is still closed by law.

You know, I can't, I'm not putting my, I'm not putting my livelihood. And it's not just me. If I were living by myself, me 10 years ago, I would do whatever, though, you know, because it would just be me. But now I have myself, my wife, my son, five other full-time employees, you know, that depend on me. I'm not going to put, selfishly put their well-being at risk. just because I want to compete.

And I'm willing to stand behind that, even if it means the end of my career, which I don't say that lightly. I say that very seriously because I've worked my entire adult life to get to the point where I have the opportunity to face a Ricardo Alamos, to face it, Josealdo. You know, these are the people that I've watched on TV that I wanted to, that I want to be like

and I wanted to compete against. But at the same time, it would be inappropriate for me to risk, you know, without their consent. And even with their consent, maybe they're just being cool. I can't take that chance. you know, the people around me. It's my responsibility as a man and as a business owner to do my best to help them.

And then if and when this situation, we're able to all resolve it to one extent or another and we're able to prepare properly and not put everyone else, you know, mortgage everyone else at the same time, then I will always be there the same way I've always been there against the best challenges available. But I'm not willing to compromise to do it. So it's not enough for the UFC to put events on, you know, have the three fight cards and keep the train moving. You need to see restrictions ban. you need to see numbers rapidly decline. You need to see a lot of changes, right?

I guess what I would say, I'm not a virologist. I'm not a pathologist. I'm not, all I need is the ability to prepare properly and feel like I'm not putting my gym, you know, like I'm not doing anything illegal. I'm not going against local law. I'm not doing anything irresponsible. I'm not willing to put other people at risk.

Would I risk it in the coronavirus to fight? Absolutely. Come on. I mean, I'm not in a high risk group. If this punches my ticket, I'm like, well, dang, I didn't expect to win the lottery like that. But, you know, but again, there's more to it than that. So I guess I wouldn't say something specific.

Like, you know, I don't, there's not a specific set of criteria that I need, but I would need to be able to prepare properly. And I would need to make sure that in so doing, I'm not putting the livelihood of all the people around me at risk, because that's just, it just wouldn't be responsible. Kind of taking a different turn here, because you mentioned Tony Ferguson, obviously he's got a big fight with Justin Gaci coming up on Saturday.

It's just a wild fight on paper. You know, Ferguson's great on the ground. He's excellent off his back. And Gachie's got that wrestling pedigree, but we never really get to see it because he's so dangerous on his feet. How do you break that fight down? What are you going to be looking for from these guys? I am this. If you could make a fight like one of my magic happy land fights, this is obviously, this is no question going to be one of those.

I'm a massive Gachie fan. I'm a big fan of Tony Ferguson. you know, it's Tony, Tony, his ability in, you know, in scrappiness and playing off of his back, and he's long and he's creative and in certain regards. But a wild, you know, like it makes him such a wild card. And I mean, I still remember that it was like a picture that was going around a little while, where it just to put in perspective, like it showed the faces of all of the people that have fought Tony Ferguson the last while.

And you go, holy moly, they look like they've been in the stasher film, man. And it's not like this is not a tough group of people. And Tony had sometimes absorbed some damage as well, but I think one of the things that makes him so offensively dynamic is the fact that he is out there. You can find him. You can hit him a little bit. But at the same time, when he gets going, man, he's overwhelmingly offensively effective. He's dangerous from all positions. He's always attacking, always moving, you know, obviously as the heart of a champion.

So Gachi is so similar in that regard. They just use a different set of tools and a different. He's obviously physically different. But yeah, man, I know that Tony can. wrestle pretty well himself and it's just it's something that doesn't often come up as a at least not in an obvious sense in a lot of his fights same way gaichi uses his wrestling more in reverse to stop people from stopping him from just engaging than them but you know in older fights i've seen old highlights of videos even just launching guys so you know he i think he was an all-american d-1 so you know he can

definitely wrestle um i guess it's it's it's difficult to pick mommi is such an interesting sport because there's so many different ways to win and so many different ways to lose that it's so volatile by nature compared to, let's say, a basketball game or even a boxing match, which is relatively sterile. And I think in a lot of ways, people haven't really figured out how to fight MMA in a way that limits that volatility.

And I think that's something that Floyd Mayweather has done brilliantly in boxing. And it's something that a lot of times doesn't resonate with the average fan, maybe, or even the average competitor because they go, oh, what are you doing? You're not even fighting. And you go, well, that's kind of the idea in certain regards. But then we watch his method

and we watch his success over the years, and we go, there's something to this Floyd guy and you also see him obviously when he gets touched when he gets in trouble he has all the grit of an Arturo Gotti when he needs it he just turns that on and off so I guess this fight is unbelievable

because both of these guys are they are there to put you away and I really love the way Gachi approaches the game because he doesn't say I think a lot of people pretend to be Justin Gagchi and aren't they're like oh man I'm gonna get you and I'm gonna knock you out and you could never knock me out he doesn't say stuff like that he says

basically, he's like, oh, if you don't knock me out, you're going to have a really rough night. But I didn't say you couldn't. I just don't think you can. We'll find out. And I think that he's as mentally tough as anybody out there. And he stands by in his words. He's an unbelievably entertaining fighter and a super skillful dude. I just, I'm excited as a fan to see this one.

Yeah, it's going to be a great fight. It's a lot of moving parts in the UFC right now. 55's great. 35's great. 45's great. That's your division. You know, we got Jeremy Stevens and Calvin Cater fighting this weekend. That's a big one.

And then you get guys, you know, coming up, like Sardik Yusuf and Shane Burgos, making their way up the ladder. Zabit Mahabed Shur pops in the top three right now. Plus you got the mainstays like Holloway and Yaya Rodriguez. We got a new champion in Alex Volcanowski. You know, who knows when things are going to kind of turn the corner here for you to get back in there. But how excited are you to kind of look ahead to these matchups potentially heading your way over the next couple of years? Oh, man. There's not a single name that you mentioned there that I wouldn't love to be in the ring with.

Every single one of those guys is super tough. They bring their own set of skills. They bring their own little personal superpower, you know. They all have certain things that they're particularly tough with and they're excellent fighters overall. It's been really neat to see such a smart fighter like Volcanowski make his way up the tree and do so well, not just, you know, not just a tough guy, not just a skilled guy, but a very intelligent guy in the way that he approaches the fight game.

You know, obviously Holloway is a great fighter. You know, there's so many guys that I look forward to. So I'll just be excited when we get the opportunity to get back in there. and I know that win-lose-dra-dra-will-dra-will-every-thing, and we will continue to fight the best people available for as long as we're around. Well said, man. Are you giving us a lot of your time,

and I really appreciate that? I think I speak for everyone here, and I know I speak for everyone here at M.A. fighting, but I think I speak for the fans as well when I say, we're excited to see you back in there whenever that is, but obviously, you know, family comes first and all that stuff comes first, so totally understand your decision.

I think there's a lot of other fighters that feel the same way you do right now, but, you know, hopefully and selfishly, We all hope that happens sooner rather than later. But I'm glad we're able to get together and make this happen, Ryan. Really appreciate it. Anything else you want to get off your chest before you let you go? No, just thanks so much, Mike, for having me on.

I really appreciate you taking the time to talk with me. And I guess we'll be releasing the modern half guard later this week. It's at the website is Ryan Hall Online.com. And it's basically starting to, I never really thought that I would be making instructional again. But there's been, I guess, a pretty decent response to the 50-50 that we put out, kind of explaining some of the things that have learned over time. some of the things that was able to use successfully in a variety of fights and also against,

you know, obviously, MMA and Jiu-Jit's a great BJ Penn. So I hope that people enjoy kind of what we've done with the half-card. I've always tried to be my best for everyone. I can't say, obviously, I know everything or that it's always going to be right, but it'll always be the best that I got at the time. So I hope that people will enjoy that. That's all I can say, and I'll look forward to get back in the ring as soon as we can, and I just hope to put on good performances.

So thank you so much, Mike Rappling. I appreciate it. Thanks, Ryan. Take care. All the best to you. Take care. When I tell you that that interview in my eyes just flew by, I really meet it. And I think my producer Casey Liden can attest to that as well.

I mean, I looked at the clock and I was like, holy moly, it's been 35 minutes. We could have gone for another hour. And I probably wouldn't even have noticed. But really interesting stuff from Ryan Hall. And this is something that's going to come up a little bit later on in the program as well. For some of these fighters who aren't competing right now, let's just get this out of the way. It's not that they're afraid of the virus or afraid of competing. in the middle of a pandemic, it's about preparation. It's about getting prepared to the best of their

abilities. I mean, if they can't train with their teams or go to the gym that they're, that they usually go to because it's not legal, they can't do that, or even take a lot of fighters take a trip to the PI before their fights. It's like something they typically do. And if they can't do what they normally do to get ready for a fight, especially in Ryan's case, now that he's cracked the top 15, he's looking for the biggest fights he can get, you have to make a choice. And obviously, neither are wrong. but you have to deal with it in your own way. That's the choice that Ryan made. Other fighters have made different choices

and you have to respect it one way or the other. One gentleman who is going to be fighting and will do so on Wednesday night. He's going to make his UFC debut. Ikeville and Oweva. He was the Fury FC light heavyweight champions, a very popular promotion in Texas. Got a big following mostly in the Houston area.

But at 36 years of age and over 11 years in the sport, Ikeville and Oweva finally got the call. So here he is the newest member of the UFC roster, Ike Villeneueva. And I just want to preface this right off the bat. The audio quality is like 96% solid. Video quality, however, not fantastic. We tried a few different times to get it right.

But unfortunately, we just couldn't get that crystal clear connection that we always like to have. But it's still a great conversation with Ike Villanueva ahead of his Octagon debut. Wednesday night against the returning Chase Sherman. Here it is. This man, Ike Villanuevae. will make his Octagon debut on Wednesday, May 13th, and a heavyweight matchup against the returning Chase Sherman. The Hurricane will be rolling through Jacksonville, Florida.

But before he does, he's stopping by this particular program. Welcome to the UFC. Ike, how are you? Man, it's a dream come true, man. It's a lot of haul work. Man, a lot of long nights, man. A lot of nice shit and cheers. All work, man, blue-colored type guy, man.

That's a work finally. stain off, man, but it's not done yet, man. I've worked with you be done now. You did it, man. I mean, we've done it. I was just excited. You finally got to call me. And we talked last time, brother.

It was like, man, it was big, brother. It's like, man, it's a long journey, bro. But, hey, you keep pushing, you keep working, man. The hard work will pay off, man. I'm hoping these younger guys, and, you know, they see what I'm doing. And I've been down the road. I've been, I've been at the lows, those points where it's just you in the back the locker room, you know, because when you're up,

when you're up the highest point in the MMA, everybody's all they love you. And you take that loss, they forget about you real quick. So I've been there, man. So, but now, this is my time, man. I'm excited for it. It's interesting you mentioned the losses and how people can kind of turn on you, because I've talked to fighters over the years, and they say that that is the most important lesson you can learn in the fight game.

You know, when you're winning, everybody wants to go out and drink beers with you, but when you lose, they just stop talking to you all together. Would you agree with that? Oh, yeah, man. I have plenty of you, man. You look at a friend of Facebook, probably no half over, man. You win it all, man. Hit the life button every time, man.

You lose, you ain't heard nothing. There's people with it older, they hit me up. I ain't heard from him in two years since I was going to fight from the military. And I was a sudden, hey, hey, I respect it, appreciate it, thank you. But I'll keep it short, man. I'm going to stay low at my day once, man. My fight team, my family, and that's all I need, man. My sponsors, I keep my neck tight circle, man.

I'm more older than the fight game. So I think my time being used to me now, it'll benefit me now, I got less distractions, man. I'm doing it right now for my family. I got a newborn on the way in September, man. My baby, Gigi. That's what I'm doing for, man. I'm excited for.

Congratulations on that, man. So is that going to be... That's your third kid? Yeah, that'll be on third kid. My wife has two. I have two. This is our first together, man. So I'm excited, brother.

This is like, man, and when this happened, it was just a blessing for both of us. And, man, then my wife's from L.A., big homie Bryant fan. So, you know, we're dedicated to make that name. You've got to give the name for me. Gigi, man, you got to love that.

Gianma, Gigi. She's the next one. But that's going to be my next little, that's me my prospect coming up. That'd be the next one. That's amazing. So now you're in the UFC, and all the Johnny Come Lately's are coming out,

wanting to talk to Ikeville and O'Aven now. Does it feel like surreal to hear those words? Welcome to the UFC. Like, the more you hear, is it just like the strangest sound in the world? Yeah, it does. But you know, like you said, as a fighter, you know, you dream it, you believe it.

It'll come true. But you've got to keep pushing, man. But it's amazing. is, man, it's like a long road, man, because I'm working my butt off, and I tell everybody, I'm going to the USC, and regardless of age, man, I'm just that hard-working guys. Coach Dan Renator, man, I love that guy to death, and been my brother since day once. He worked my butt off to get here, man, so it's, we're showing, man. The young guys in the gym, they're looking up to you.

Like, man, that, man, Hurricane, you did, man, you told us. And I tell everybody, you're like, man, it's like it's meant to be, because you're telling people what's going to happen, and here it is. Man, it's just a dream come true. Blessing all. Lord of God, man. I'm very thankful, man. So after the news came out, I was scrolling through social media. I saw you had done a Facebook live earlier in the day,

and you had told your friends and family that you had a really rough day at work, and then you got a call or a FaceTime from your manager, Jason House. Walk us through that day. Like, why was your day so terrible? And then what was that phone call like for you? It was just, no, it was just a busy day. You know, right now during the COVID-19, we got a lot. of stuff going on.

We just got to be ready for everything. And so at work, you know, there's a little real fair right now because everybody's in a tight boat. So we're pushing out and working. We're lucky to be working right now at this time, man. I work for hunting energy services. Jack Beck, Andrew Cousins, Vittley, is my big bosses over there.

We'll make sure we're on our tight game. So I'm going to even work that day. It was just, man, that was the day Texas opened up everything here. And it was during the COVID-19 to open the restaurants up. And that day, I got to get up work. I was planning to go pick up my wife and take her to dinner. And so after that, I'm walking to the truck and Jason, the video call me. Jayles, look at the damn house.

He's a butt. Are you butt dad with me, bro? What's going all right? He goes to the text message, a phone call. Never a video call. So I was that, man, something's up, bro. Something's up. And I take my work boots off.

And before I got started the truck, I called him. All he says, we did it. He goes, you see. I didn't know I was fighting Chase Sherman to about an hour later. And so he said, we were on. It was crazy because hit a grenade and do an hour before that. My coach is like, man, we don't care who it is. We're fighting, though.

You know what's that heavyweight? That's a blessing. But it was crazy because I'm on the phone with him, FaceTime, and then as soon as I hung up, I turned my truck around, and I hauled ass back to work, and I see my boss at the park in the lab. I gave him a big a hug, my boss Jack Peck. Because it's been a lot, man, because that guy, he helped me along my way. way, man. Just help me out of work and just, you know, being that support. You know, you always need a

sportified of eight, man, keep pushing. We're proud of you, everybody in a huntie, they back me up. Because these are the guys, man, they had a pet rally for me before I probably shot a color. I mean, that was amazing. We had that many people do that for me. And now it's like, man, we did. We all did it because, you know, they're my support system. That's my family away from my house. And I'm very thankful for all that work. But it was a lot of emotions. Man, they want to call my brothers, my sisters, man. They said, years with me because they thought hard I didn't working at. Back in 2012, I lost my father. I took three years off.

And when I came back, this was my goal in 2015. It just, it took a while, but hey, I got here, man. I'm just very thankful and proud. Why did you take those three years off, if you don't mind me asking? I don't think we ever talked about that. Yeah, man, it's a lot of bad stuff, man. I went to the war back 2011. I lost my father in 2012.

And I just, I was going through a lot of times just wasn't getting the mind. said, I won't get the great training because I was going through too much. You know, it just kept me away from it. I just kept up to the family business. I just had lots of time to take care of my mom back then, and that was my main focus. So, you know, back then, I just stepped in the gym one time. I just stepped away and took care of my mom, my kids, and just focused on coaching football. That kind of was my mistake back then to help me get away.

And finally, after coaching my kids up and my son, it was time to get back in there, man. I was very thankful for my nephew, Christian Tovar, man. push me to get back in the gym. He said, man, you got to go fight, man. You're not done. And I'm not sure. I'm thankful because I wasn't. I thought a lot of fight left.

And it's been shown, man. Pick up any video, pick up any fight. Check up my last, too. That shows me who I really am, man. Those are USC and vets, man. So they weren't no pushovers, man. So when you took that breaks, let's say, like, you know,

2012, 2013 as this train is rolling here, did you think you were coming back? Like, did you think you were going to fight again? Man, mentally no. No. Mindset, no. The only thing that saved me from coming back, or it will help me from coming back,

or if a crash, or from crash by 2014, 2015, and I was able to, you know, we weren't working crazy hours on war, and I was able to manage, we'll get off 2 o'clock. And here I am, but I'm not going to a part

too much in that afternoon, just with my style. I'm going to do that, man. It's finally, got in contact with the day to know. I said, man, let's get back rolling. And sure enough, man,

got back in the gym and that was it, man, because back then it was, I loved it then, man. But thankfully, man, it all played out the way it did. So for those who are seeing you for the first time, you just turned 36 years of age. That's younger than I am, by the way. So I don't want to hear that you're old or anything like that. You know, you had your first pro-MA fight in 2008 and you just kept grinding away and you shared the cage. Like, if you go through your record, like, you fought some names. Drysdale, Justin Liddette, Trevin Giles.

You finish, like you alluded to, your last four fights in the first round. Last two wins are against UFC veterans, Roger Navias, and Richard Colter to set you up for this opportunity. I don't think I've even asked you this before, but you know, you had your pro debut at the end of 2008, so you probably would have been 24, 25, which is a little bit later than the average fighter has their first fight and finds a sport. But how did this MMA journey start for you? I mean, it's all started, man. Back then, I walked in a silverback fight. club way bad, like 2005, six.

That's where I met the guys. And I was still working the whole field. That was my main focus. Well, my drive to still compete, man. That's playing high. It's a big football. It affects it. It's everything.

I played rugby. I had the drive to compete. And that's what I wanted to do. I started seeing on TV. And once I walked in the silverback fight club, there was the old tournament back. That's what I met, man. The big of the Darius,

you got Danny Panada, Jose, set the bias. I met crew Bob there, man. our late coach Tony Roscoe, man. He passed away in the Kansas. Man, he showed me what heart really is, and he pushed me. I'm thanking for that guy,

and it's all blessing. But back then, that's when I started, man. Once I got there, who I thought was this big muscle guy coming out? Danipanet put me to guillotine, and he didn't let go. He was like, but once he locked,

I picked him up over my head. He would not let go. I'm like, yeah. So you can be this big knockout artist, but, man, you better learn some ground defense because I'll never, kids that day. His day is like,

man, great memories. And we still laugh about that to the day. But, man, those are my brothers,

man. That's like my little brother, man. So we look out for something. I'm very thankful that.

These guys still in my life after so many years. How did Daniel and crew Bob and all those guys react to the news? Because I'm sure

they were just, you know, elated for you. This is, this is so big. Yeah, man, because Daniel's,

Daniel's the head coach, Daniels, he tells me, he's funny because every fight, you'll, you know, we got the game plan

and he'll come up and let's be something here we'll do this. And then me, I'm like, yes, sir, man, let's do it,

man. He's a little guy, a 45, but I give him all the respect to the world, man, because he's my, and I tell him off the minute,

whatever you need me to do, I'll do it. And he's great, man, but it was a, we said tears, man, it was a proud moment because, you know,

hard work pays off, and the same thing with Koobaubb, he knew it was, man, so remember 14, 15 years ago, remember you walked in the gym.

And it's something for the guys You're Houston You just see, man Just don't give up, man Keep working Because it's not always The grass ain't always green Man, you've got to go

To the rough times Because if you don't go through the rough times It's good, man When you take a loss You just gotta fold man You know This is an MMA game Man, it happens

Just keep pushing But man Everybody at the gym Man, it was just Emotional tired Follows us But Tears of joy though

We're excited It happened Once you came back From your hiatus You've just been on a tear You've gone eight and two since you returned. You had the loss to Trevin Giles,

but the other one was a really close split decision loss in Fury FC, but that was the last time you've lost. You've just been tearing it up. You have not spent a lot of time in the cage. What do you think changed for you? Like when, you know, what led to things really starting to click for you in there?

Man, after that, man, just pissed off mental fires. Like, man, that fight, that split decision loss, I was just living that day. because, man, it went from me in a five-minute fight, then they come to tell me the locker room, you know, damn Texas Commission. Oh, y'all fighting three-three-minute rounds.

I mean, just, you know, at the very last minute, right when we were walking out, they said, y'all five-minute round, and the Texas Commission was out of a seven. So that turned out of the damn, like, a little boxing session to use a move. Yeah, and the guy, you know, fight the 85, that's a big weight cut, so it takes time to get adjusted, you know.

But ever since then, I never do that again. I said, man, I was just a man on fire, man. I went back to Zem, regrouped. My wife, Kim, man, she's on my ass. She makes sure that everything's the line, man. She makes sure I'm mentally focused, man. It's just had great sports system I get from my family. But, man, this comeback is just, man, it's now or never.

That's like I said, it's now and never. Man, it's cold time, man. It's finally here. You sort of alluded to this. And I think most fighters get into the sport because they have that urge to compete and prove something to themselves. And, you know, it gets to a point

and it's happened to you, obviously, where you start to believe, like, holy crap, maybe I can take this thing to the next level and go all the way to it. Do you remember, like, that moment for you when you're like, I truly believe that the UFC is now an option? Was it a fight, a training session?

Do you remember that day? Yeah, yeah. A couple fights, even though that fighter, I haven't had a hundred dollars. I was a high prospect. I couldn't have 85. And I was a bummer big guy, man. Couldn't have 85.

that's a lot of weight, bro. And it's just, man, we threw down three rounds, and that way cut got me in the last three rounds. I believe I was up on that fight, man. It's just we had probably the most wildest second round in LFA history ever knew us after that. But when I came back, and I was like, okay, we grew, I went to fight Roger the Vice.

And I said, Bramee's these U.S. I went to this hometown. Like I said, I went to California train with some bad answers out there, man. They showed me the number of love, but they showed me the roads, man. help you motivate me to come back and take your business

but I went to the corporate Christi and when I knocked out Roger in 30 seconds it was 28 I looked at it I was like I looked at tomorrow

I'm like this is it this is those USC guys I was like man these are those guys in front of me man and that's all it took it was okay

it's on and that same night Rashopop came in the cage and he's like man yeah I'm next no second

no second five no back I see you soon that's what it was man Let's just, let's go. Line them up, man. One after another, and I said it.

Same thing that happened with Michelle Cutler, man. That's a great dude, man. He's a beast, man. He's that beast, man. Chase, they fought, man. That was a rumble, man. I liked that. But, yeah, same thing happened here.

But I'll be longer, man. So I'll say that Roger DeVise fight. That was a fight that really pushed me and had everybody believe in Texas. Man, he's coming from the UFC. After the Colter win, and anyone who follows you on social media can attest to this, you were doing everything you could to get noticed. You wanted that opportunity.

wanted that shot. And you talked about having some long nights and having some doubts. You know, what was some of those nights like for you? I mean, it has to be tough because you really, like, you've earned your stripes. Like you had the winning streak. You've had the credentials to this point. You know, but for some reason that phone was a ringing. What were those nights

like for you? It was tough, man. I had lonely nights in the gym. Lonely nights downtown, a crew ballast place. And just, don't drive home. It's like, man, what else was left? What else I got to do? And that's like the devil in disguise. He's trying to break, you, trying to fool you somewhere else.

He was like, man, it ain't going to happen. Well, my wife says, man, be patient. Be patient. I'm a more family, man. I'm a hardworking guy. I'm just, I got to take care of my family. So I'm like, man, my patience was running out. She was to be patient.

And I was off, man, I'll be laid up by night. And one of the mornings waking up. Is this going to happen? Then I waited at all January. I said, man, give me a last-minute phone call. Maybe come off from the brewery card. It didn't happen. I'm like, man, can we try hard to get on their cards?

And that night, I went to the USC show, man, Eric Garcia, Fury Fight Championships. They hosted me out there. We had a great time. At the party, I walked up to McMainer, you know. A lot of guys wouldn't. I walked up. I said, I just wanted to ask to McMann.

Who do I have to meet the U.S.C.? Who else is left? You give me a name. And he told me, like, you're doing great because it's your age. It's hard. He's using your age right now. It's okay. So it's kind of like a little dagger, but a little bit more fire.

to fuel me to keep pushing us. So I left that same half the party. This is probably two of the morning. I'm in the Uber. I text every voter run. I said, you find me the best prospect. Anybody on their radar, you send them to me. I said, I line them up next. And that was our main goal. We were getting ready for that.

But this COVID-19 happened. And now, man, I got the call, man. But Jason House did send some message. Hey, man, y'all stay ready because it could happen. But after that California show got cancer, man, our doubts were like, man, we don't think this is going to happen. And we actually took like a 10 days off for the gym. And it was like, man, then finally ate, man, this happened.

And I'm thankful it did because it's time, baby. So after, you know, you get over the initial word that you're in the UFC, you finally realize you're fighting Chase Sherman. And, you know, you talked about the fight with Colter, which is just such a wild bananas fight. I'll give you all who are watching right now a little test. If you haven't watched that fight, I highly recommend you go watch it. it's incredible.

But, you know, he's just got that killer-be-killed mentality. You know, he didn't have a great run in the UFC the first time around, but he bounced back with some wins with island fights, three first-round finishes, became the bare-knuckle FC heavyweight champion. You know, when you finally realize that you're fighting Chase Sherman, how did you react to that? Oh, no, man. It was crazy. You know, no call me.

It was Rashad Cudler. He called me. He goes, he was, man. And that's, you know, I take respect to that, man. He reached out to me, goes, man, you go, that's a fight. 40, man. He shares some knowledge with me. But Rashad, man. Not Rashad,

Chase. That man, much problem to him. He's a vet. He's a tough guy. If I did Bear in their knuckles, I'll I can hang with the best over there. If I did that, Finalicle Bucle guys. I'm just, it's not my style. If I'm going to get a bar fight, it's going to get

the bar fight, that's going to get the bar fight. That's what they're paying on there in Bear Knuckles. My son's just going to fight three. And, uh, so I didn't, man. But right now, it's a great matchup. It's the fans are going to win this fight, and it's going to be lovely. I mean, can he, is it going to be a rumble like the shot fight? Oh, hey, find out made their thing because they all rumble.

I'm hoping. There's any room that comes, but hey, I'm the same mentality. Need me in the city of the cage. Kill and be killed, man. I got all Texas on my back, and my fan community, food of Chicago. Man, if we don't die, man, we're going out fighting. So I'm excited for it, man. I know it's your first fight for the UFC.

You're focused on May 13th, but you know, you talked about how your place of work has been so supportive of you over the years. They've thrown parties for you. They've thrown, you know, pep rallies for you and all this stuff. Do you see yourself still working there full-time and still fighting, or do you think things might change? We're, man, we talked about it. I'm not leaving these guys, man, because not many companies will stay by you through this, man, because they say, okay, you choose one. These guys have been, man. into it. I already became back getting certified.

I went straight to the big boss and told them. I said, when you support this? They're like, men, we're all four. And when I got the phone call and I asked them, I said, man, I only take two weeks off. Go ahead. Go. It's only worry about nothing. Just go. And they called me Saturday morning.

You give me all the blessings. And they just keep going. And they'll text them up the day. I was just very thankful. I would never need these guys, man. Middills is that family, man. They'll always support me whenever I need to go train. I'm pretty sure they'll let me do whatever I need to do.

But hunting into services, I mean, they spend more oil to me, so I wouldn't do that, man. Got a little bump. I get someone working on the roof right now, and they chose right now to come work on the roof. But a couple more things. I can't ask you, brother. Where's it? I don't see the Patriots sign. We're all we're doing on the Patriots?

What's it at? We're in the process of moving from Command Center 1 to Command Center 2. So we've left one picture on the wall for some sort of ambiance. Autographed. autographed Ali and Larry Holmes from Ollie's last fight. Yeah, I actually meant Larry Holmes. I was a kid.

That dude's a monster, man. That's awesome, bro. That's crazy. But now you get to try to make some history in your own right. May 13, 2020, Ikeville and Aueva versus Chase Sherman in Jacksonville, Florida on ESPN Plus. What is this headline going to read when it's over, Ike? Oh, man, that's all I just saying.

The hurricane has landed. And that's all I wanted to say, because, man, I see it in my head. I just don't, man. You vision it? You believe it could have my mind going forward, man. Hurricane is coming, man. Hurricane warning full effect.

Because May 13, I'm coming, man. Heavyweight, light, heavy weight don't matter. I'm for the same fighter, man. The weight is just out the window. And thank you to everybody, but just for everybody back home here in Houston. Everybody in Texas, all my family, man. This is big.

I ran a sports agency, flaws, like stuff. it's go time man I'm ready what a great story that is Ikeville in a way of a newest member of the UFC roster taken on Chase Sherman on Wednesday night in Jacksonville Florida all the best to him as he makes

his promotional debut and apologies for the video quality there we did everything we could that's just what we got and it is what it is I enjoy the conversation nonetheless as we head to our final guest of this loaded edition of what the heck let us check in with Michael

Kiesa the Maverick himself we shot the brief about a whole bunch of different things, how he's handling things in this pandemic, how a new rivalry has found his fighting career. All respectful, by the way, if you're looking for Michael Kiesa to talk trash, that is not going to happen.

We broke down some of the big fights on Saturday night as well, UFC 249. Lot to discuss. Here it is with Michael Kiesa. All right, we move ahead to one of our favorites here on MMAFighting.com. A few weeks back, you may have caught him on the A-Side. live chat. He was educating us and

all things Sasquatch. It was pretty amazing. Let us check in with the number eight welterweight contender in the world. Michael Kiesa rocking, just an outstanding mustache. How are you, man? Doing good. It's good beer. I think I'm using the same cup I was on the A side.

What a coincidence. So we got that good juju going right off the bat. So how is, I'm starting to lose my mind here with quarantine life. Luckily, I'm in the middle of a of a house renovation, so we have a lot of things keeping us busy, and obviously the MMA news cycle hasn't slowed down at all. But, you know, how is quarantine life for you at this

point? It's been okay. You know, it's obviously, it's starting to wear on me a little bit. Fortunately, I get along with life, Yonthe, real well. So we're going to spend a lot of time together. She's a real estate agent, so things have, haven't totally slowed down for her. But, you know, she's, she's at home a lot with me as well. So, but it's kind of wearing on me, you know, I'm ready to go back to normal life, and I think we all are. So that's obviously not out of the ordinary for anybody to feel that way. But yeah, you know, it's we're getting house projects done around here. Actually, if it wasn't pissing rain today, I probably got started building a new fence.

That's kind of the direction I'm going. That's my next big project, I think. So, you know, other than that, man, we're getting by. But yeah, I'm ready for some normal life. I bet. I know you're in Washington State right now. The governor's trying to face things out step by step. But one thing that caught a lot of people's attention is about a week or so ago,

a little over a week ago, you posted to your Instagram and you sort of just put your feelings out there about the fight game and where things are at right now. Like you didn't put a timeline on anything, but you essentially said, I'm not fighting unless I can be at my absolute best because the resources just aren't necessarily there for you to be at your absolute best. So you're going to wait it out until they are. Was there anything specific that inspired? that post where a lot of people just hitting you up in like when are you fighting again man

yeah you know it's it sucks not having an answer you know this is the first time in my whole career i don't have an answer to that question where it's like you know if i'm coming off an injury it's like well i kind of know when i'm coming back or if it's like oh you know we're waiting for certain fights to happen you know you always have a time frame the tough thing for me mike is this is the first usually this time of year i'm in training camp if you look back 2017, I fought Kevin Lee at the end of June. 2018, I fought Pettus in July. 2019, I fought Diego Sanchez in July.

So it's like, this is the time when I'm usually transitioning into a training camp, and it's not happening right now. And, you know, fortunately for me, I'm able to get some training in still. You know, I'm still working with Sam Cecilia. I'm still working with Rick Little. You know, we're getting a few practices in a week just because, you know, we're in the process of building a big gym. So we kind of have like a secret location where we train. but other than that my jiu jitza gyms are closed the boxing gyms are closed you know all all the places i do all my strength conditioning they're closed and it's one of those things where i know

that there's guys out there that are they're making do with what they got and they're taking fights and i respect that a lot you know what i mean i really do me i don't have the headspace for that i've gotten to a certain point at welterway again getting back in the top 10 by doing things a certain way and i'm not going to go into my next fight without having the same pieces in play that I did for my last three fights. You know, I have a winning formula right now, and I don't want to get away from that and lose my spot and rush coming back.

And it's not that I don't want to fight. I want to fight. Trust me. I just watched the Gilbert Burns fight get away from me, and that's the fight I really wanted. You know what I mean? But I just, it's one of those things, man. Like, I don't have some of the resources

that these guys do, you know what I mean? And I'm not going to take that chance. It's not just about losing my spot. It's also about my health, you know? In order for me, try to downplay myself or my skills, but a lot of times the way I beat these guys is because I show up at my absolute best. And if you don't show up at your absolute best, if you're just a little bit behind me, I'm going to beat you. You know what I mean? There's a reason why I'm always an

underdog. I'm not a betting favorite. I'm always kind of like, it doesn't matter who you match me up with in the top 10. I'm going to be an underdog. But there's a reason why I win. And that's because I have these long training caps. I'm ready for every single specific thing to where if a guy is not on by just this much, I'm going to beat him. So, You know, it goes back to hell and things like that. So I got to, I think that my contingency plan, honestly, with Washington extending these guidelines is I'm just going to wait for the PI to open. And when it does, I'm just going to ship myself down there for a couple weeks.

And then I can at least have some head space and know, like, at least I have my strength conditioning. I know there will be some bodies down there. I know John Woods down there. Maybe I'll bring a couple guys from home with me. Maybe I'll bring Rick Little with me. Who knows? You know what I mean?

But that's kind of my contingency plan right now. So, I mean, that's basically what I got to work with, man. It's just a trying time. And I commend these guys that are able to make that walk without having the regular preparations that they normally do. But I just don't think it's a risk I'm willing to take right now. And I think it's commendable on your end as well because, you know, we have seen other fighters make that same decision with a lot of these things in play. Wonderboy was a guy spoke to a few weeks ago. He was with that.

He has the same mentality. Ryan Hall was on the show this week. week said essentially the same thing. Like my gym's not open. Like, how can I adequately prepare for a fight? It's just a, you know, a weird timer. And like you said, like especially in this sport, because while most sports have postponed everything for a while, the UFC is just like, nope, we're going to move forward and that's going to kick off this weekend. How did you react to it all initially when Dana White started saying, I don't care what everybody else is doing. We're doing this thing. You know what? That's awesome. Good for Dana. You know, the thing is, is one thing that's different

about our sports league than others is we get paid when we fight you know what i mean and so dana's trying to keep these guys employed and keep them paid and i know a lot of people are going to gripe about like oh well there's no stimulus checks or this or that well guess what this is different this is fighting this isn't like any other professional sports league or any other sport um so he's doing his job and he's keeping these guys employed sorry my dog's about to bark at me i got to throw us to get out of here um so good for him you know what i mean these guys need to fight these guys got to make a living, you know what I mean? And he's given them the opportunity to do that.

You know, and that's probably a lot of the guys that probably are fighting. There's a lot of the guys that are like, shit, I can't wait around. You know, there's guys that got families to feed and in businesses outside of fighting that they got to keep going, you know? So fighting is a top priority for them right now, you know? So, yeah, good for Dana. He's doing his thing. That's what he does best.

He makes shit happen. He just, I think the biggest mistake that anybody in the world made is, telling him he can't do something. I think that he gets the fights going no matter what. I mean, I think he was highly motivated to be the first guy out front. And, you know, he wanted to be the guy that to be the front runner for all the sports leagues. So I think he already had that in his mind already. But I think the fact that then they started saying, no, you can't do this and you won't be able to use like, all right, screw you watch this.

Now I'm going to, now I'm going to buy an island. Now I'm going to do it. So I think, you know, that was a catalyst for a lot of the, the. actions we've seen out of him in the last couple months and you know, that's awesome. That's why that's what makes Dana so great. You mentioned Gilbert Burns. He was on the show a couple weeks ago because that guy is an absolute madman.

He would fight every three days if he could. But he mentioned that he did speak to you about possibly fighting and you told him essentially, look man, I want to fight you but I can't train. I'm not fighting right now and he could not have respected that anymore and now it looks like he's going to fight Tyron Woodley on May 23rd. You sort of prefaced this, but is it a a little tough sitting back and seeing a fight like that materialize when you could very well be

in that discussion. Dude, it is. It is a tough thing. But I think that the fight can still be there once him and Woodley is done doing the thing. I think Gilbert Burns is going to become my greatest rival. You know what I mean? Because we speak regularly.

You know, we both have a certain amount of respect for each other. And I flat out told him, you know, I'm like, dude, I want nothing more than to compete against you. I think that that's my best challenge right now is I look at his skill set. and that's the guy that's going to give me the most problems. And it's like, you know what? And you pair that with the fact that I have a ton of respect for the guy. And I think the world of them, it's like, there's nothing to lose.

Let's just go have fun, you know? And I pretty much told him, like, dude, I'm not going to go fight the best jujitsu practitioner at Welterweight without being able to go train at my judictu academy. Like that is like, you know, if you're going into an MMA fight and you have a revolver and you have six bullets, that's like pulling two bullets out and only being able to go in there with four. You know what I mean? So it's like, you know, I'm not trying to go, I'm trying to have as many bullets as I can going into a gunfight, you know what I mean? And just go going to fight

Gilbert Burns while not training jujitsu, it might be, I mean, that's just stupid, you know, so it's like, that's kind of what I told him, like, man, I can't, I want to fight you bad, but I just would be not, I'm not doing myself any favors if I'm, if I can't train jiu-jitsu. You know what I mean? I'm not a, I'm not a black belt world champion like you. I'm a blue belt technically. So it's like, it's, you know, it is what it is, man. But I'm pulling for him against Tyrant. And I think that no matter what, him and I are on a collision course, we're going to fight someday. It's just, it's destined to be.

You know what I mean? But until then, I just got to sit back as a fan and I'm hoping he wins, man. I'm hoping. I definitely hope he beats Woodley. That would be huge, man. That would be a big feather in his cap. For sure. One thing I've noticed since I've come over to MMA fighting is that there are a lot of fans out there that follow the site.

their main purpose is just to hammer everybody that they can. Like, it doesn't matter who it is. They'll just hammer them. And there are some fighters who get it more than others. But Tyrone Woodley may get it more than anybody I've ever seen. Like, this guy is a former champion. He's found success outside of the cage. He's a family man.

Like, all the things you would, like, respect a fighter for. But for some reason, he just gets crushed all the time. Like, why do you think that is? Well, I think that, you know, that is tough to say. I respect Tyron. guy. I think that he kind of plays the victim card a lot and I think that doesn't really do him any favors.

I don't know the rap thing, kind of he gets picked on about the wrapping, especially the recent, you know, recent little clip that came out that Gilbert Burns has just been throwing out there a ton that falling in that falling in that a love thing that he's,

oh man, that doesn't do him any favors. You know what I mean? That's just not, that doesn't help his case. But it's tough to say, You know what I mean? I will say this, with all due respect to him. You know, sometimes I feel like I'm surprised he took the Burns fight because a lot of times I feel like it's like you're kind of the Leon fight didn't happen.

And it's like instead of addressing Leon, you're like asking, you're like calling out Izzy and things that are kind of like out of your weight class. It's kind of like, well, you're not addressing the things that are right in front of you. You know what I mean? I think that that can be frustrating for the fans when it's like, Instead of addressing, you know, he's in a situation where he's got to fight a Burns. He's got to fight a Leon, but he's not acknowledging it. And it's like, well, I'm going to try to fight hisy or I'm going to try to get another fight with Usman.

And I respect that. He's one of the best welterweight champions we've had of all time. And he probably feels he's entitled to those big fights. But the fact of the matter is when you lose, you got to get back on the horse and jump back in there somehow. And you're not always going to be able to do that with an immediate rematch. You know what I mean? So I think maybe some fans get some frustration from him first. in that sense, but, you know, who knows?

I think maybe it's just the rap thing. I think people haven't fully absorbed that yet. Yeah, I'm a terrible rapper myself, so I'm not here to pass judgment. But I can't believe the Covington fight still hasn't happened yet. Like, that fight is so big. It's just, for some reason, they can't get it together. I don't know why.

That's the fight that needs to happen. I have a little, I have a little suspicion. You know, I got a little something in my head that's kind of got me thinking, All of a sudden, we have no Ushman Mazurah. To my understanding, from what I'm reading in the news, it sounds like that Usman Mazadal is not happening. And now all of a sudden they're talking about a Mazurahal,

Connor McGregor fight. For some reason, that's in the last three days. That's kind of become a little bit of a rumor. So maybe they're going to do, my little thing in my head is telling me that maybe it's going to be Covington versus Usman rematch. You know what I mean? Because while all of a sudden is, while all of a sudden is Usman Mazurahdol,

not a real thing. Sorry, my dogs are more pestering than children. They're serious. They're just like, the second I have to do anything that doesn't involve them, they're just all over my shit. There we go. But yeah, that's kind of my little series. I really think that, I think that now all of a sudden with,

it's sounding like there's going to be no, no Uswan versus Mazda. I think that they're going to do the immediate rematch with Covington, because why would they not do Woodley, Covington first. That's a huge fight. No offense to Burns. Burns is my guy. That's my boy. You know, but Covington versus Woodley's a way bigger fight from, you know, but I'm glad I went to Burns. I'd rather have it go to Burns. Good for him. Let him get the win. And let's, you know, let's start changing that top five. Let's start changing the landscape of the

landscape of 15 through six is changing a lot. We could use some movement in the top five, you know, So, you know, yeah, go Burns. Yeah, 170's just been so interesting for so long. So Burns could be a big part of the changing of the guard. But that is on May 23rd, Fight Week is right now. UFC 249 coming up on Saturday. And considering what is going on in the world, this is a really good card. Like, Seroni and Pettis fighting on the prelims.

Like, that's how good this card is. And I'm curious about your take on that fight because you've shared the cage with Pettus before. He's coming off a couple of losses. He was submitted for the first time in his career in his last fight. And Donald Seroni has just fought straight killers and never hesitates to say yes to anybody. And it's a rematch from seven or so years ago. I'm sure Seroni, even though he won't say it, got a little extra fire in his belly to try to get one back. But what do you think Cowboy has to do, in your opinion, to avoid what happened in their first fight? Don't go backwards. That's the biggest thing when you fight Anthony Pettis. And easier said than done. You know,

the one thing about Anthony that is that I underestimated is when you stand across from the guy, it's one thing to walk him down. But he has this like the way his stance is and the way he looks in front of you, he is just like his body is locked in. He's really twitchy. He makes these really small movements that can draw you into. It's not even like their fates or faints. It's just he's such a fast twitch striker.

The way his motion is in his stance, it'll sometimes it can trigger you to attack or something. Sometimes it could trigger you to retreat because you just, you never know what the guy's going to do. He could run off the fence and freaking kick you. He might jump off the fence and Superman punch. You never know what he's going to do. So the key for Cowboy, and I think one thing that he has going for him is, I think bringing John Wood in was a great asset for this camp. You know, I trained a lot with John Wood before I fought Pettus.

And I had my success until I just ran out of steam. John Wood did a good job. He does a good job of getting fighters to put pressure on people. And so I think him working with John is going to help him with applying pressure. I think the cowboy, whoever wins this fight is going to be the guy that goes forward and doesn't retreat. You know what I mean? Because that's kind of the tale for both guys. I mean, if you look at both guys, if you were to get matched up with them and you're breaking down film, one thing that's always going to be at the top of the list is like, okay, get them on their heels.

You know what I mean? So it's going to be whichever guy can get going forward first. I think that's going to be the guy that wins. You know, and I think it'll be a fun fight. I can't believe it's a premium. I mean, that's the strikers delight right there. That could steal the show. And that's a good contingency plan too, because if something goes south, even though they're

fighting at 170, if something goes south, you got, you know, in the main event, you got one of those guys could fill in for that main event spot just in case something happens. I think it would have been smarter for them for the UFC if they would have had Pedison in Soroni, fight at 55, just in case something happens in that main event and they could throw one of those guys in. but they're fighting at 70 and I don't blame them. I could never fight. If I was going into a fight right now during this coronavirus pandemic,

there is no way in hell I would ever be. Making the extra weight class down would be, that would be a nightmare. So I don't blame them for fighting at 70. Yeah, there's a few of those fights. Brian Kelleher is fighting Hunter Azure at 145. Kelleher is like so fired up about that. The quarantine weight class is what he calls it.

So I think you're going to see that a lot more of this next month or so. I know the UFC isn't too stoked on it. They're not big on the, and I don't blame them. You know what I mean? Yeah, I know they're not too stoked on it. Not him, not him. I'm not picking on Brian. I'm just saying that I'm stoked on the play classes. Yeah.

Yeah. They're probably just sick of him being like, all right, fine. Stop telling us you want to fight. We'll just put you on the card. You want to fight it for? Fine, fine, fine. 45 it is. Yeah. So Hudo versus Cruz for the Bannamway title.

A good one. Love this fight, man. There were some trash talk back and forth on the conference call earlier this week. The big story here, as it's been for a few different fights for Cruz, it's the long layoffs. It's been over three years since the Garbrand fight. Ronda Rousey has fought since then. I think by the time this fight happens, Cowboy will have fought 12 or 13 times before Cruz walks to the cage since then. But as you've seen, Cruz comes through these layoffs and has been very successful.

And Sohudo, meanwhile, has looked spectacular. wins over DJ, TJ, Marlon Mariah's last three. Very fascinating fight. Probably the storyline of the card, in my opinion. What say you? What do you think of that fight? Well, I mean, you kind of hit the nail in the head. If there's anybody that can come back up, long layoff and win,

it's going to be Dominic Cruz. And one thing Dominic has that these guys don't is the way he moves in his footwork. And that can kind of draw, like if you watch how he fought T.J. Dillishaw, his movement can draw guys into missing a lot of strikes and he's one of the few guys in the UFC that can win off of defense. You don't really see that in mixed martial arts. You see that boxing.

You see guys in boxing win fights with defense, making guys miss and blocking and countering and things like that. I'd be like Dominic's the only guy just off the top of my head. I can think of the wins fights off defense. So if he can do that, if he can get Suhudo missing and he can do his bull versus Matador type of stuff, You know, he has a really legit chance to win this fight. You know what I mean?

And if there's anybody who can do it, it's Dominic Cruz. I think that people lose sight of the fact that, yeah, it's unfortunate. He's probably been the most cursed guy. And I know he doesn't like to say curse because he's so mentally tough. He does not want sympathy from anybody. If you ever talk to the guy, he's like, what's the curse? You know, it's just life challenge me to do, overcome these things. Like he has such a strong mindset.

And that's going to benefit him in this fight. he's just going against the triple C though I mean this is like one of the best and I hate to I mean a lot of people would hate that I say this but I mean he really is one of the best combat sport athletes of all time I might be biased because I'm a wrestler but you know Dominic Cruz has a legit chance to win

this fight you know what I mean and I think that it's going to play out I think no matter what it's going to go to a decision you know and that that's risky business for Sohudo in my opinion I mean that's unless you can blow Dominic out like Cody Garbrand did

it's going to be a really tough it's tough to win a decision against Dominic and we'll see what happens I mean if Suhudo wants to win this fight he has to make Dominic lead to dance you make him lead to dance you know what I mean that's one thing Cody did well you make Dominic lead and you counter him

you know what I mean if you can get Dominic to the lead you have a better chance at winning a fight so we'll see how that one pans out dude that's going to be interesting and then before we get to the main event we all know how the main event's going to go pure violence that's where we're getting violence from bell to bell i don't think it goes past two rounds yeah i have to say being on that conference call earlier this week you have cruis and sehudo going back and forth just like

jawjacket at each other and then you have fergus and gaecchi on the call and these two were just so fired up like there's no trash talk at all they were just like yeah buddy it was like almost like they were high-fiving each other on the phone i got goosebumps bumps after listening to them without a single word of trash talk spewed amongst either of those guys. Like, this is so great. So, like, I love when we have fights like this that you don't need insults, you don't need trash talk. People are just excited for it just because it's the fight.

Like, how rare is this? It is really rare. And, you know, that's more, you don't really get that out of the fans. Unfortunately, I love the fans. They, they are, they are the beating heart of this sport. They're the reason why, they're a big part of the reason why we're able to make a living doing this. but for some reason the fans aren't a fan of good sportsmanship.

They love the trash talk and the belittling, but I feel like it's the journalists and the fighters and the people that are much more involved in the sport. It's a breath of fresh air for us, you know what I mean? And I love it, you know? And how could these guys have any lack of respect for each other when they're both so common? You know what I mean?

Stylistically, they're not very similar, but their approach to fighting is very much the same. It's just pure violence going forward, the ability to take a shot and break guys with their durability. And, you know, they, they share a lot of common ground in the way that they fight, not stylistically, but just their total, the art of their fighting, the art of their toughness and violence and just everything about it, you know, and the both of them are wrestlers.

There's a lot of, there's common ground in those types of aspects. But it's awesome. It's just going to be a fun fight. They're going to be high-fiving. They're going to be bleeding all over each other. They're going to be freaking, you know, you know, Ferguson's going to get an elbow in on the guard, but you know Gatchi's going to Cobra Claw, grabbing by the head,

get it with those nice short uppercuts. It's just going to be crazy. You know what I mean? And who knows what to expect? I just, the one thing I do know is it's not going the distance. If that fight goes the distance, I bet you Ferguson will have been dropped probably like six times and Gatio will probably have like 70 stitches,

you know, he'll probably need 70 stitches to sew his face back up. They go five rounds. I think it's of their best interest to not go five rounds. I think it's of their pitch trying to put each other away early. Because if those guys fight each other for 25 minutes, you know, they might not come out the same as they did before. You know, they might come out of that oxygon change for the rest of their life. You know what I mean?

Who knows? There can be a lot of crazy shit happening in that, in those 25 minutes. But hopefully it's two. So I look like Nostradamus, two rounds less than two. This will be out there for the world to see. A couple of things. Speaking of violence, your idea for Fight Island, pretty fascinating. For those who didn't see it, what should happen on Fight Island if you had the book and the pencil

on the power. What should happen on Fight Island? I think it should be a reality show, honestly. I think if there are to do anything, I mean, I'm not just saying that as a joke. I really think that Fight Island is the perfect recipe to do some type of mixed martial arts reality show. Whether it's some type of Ultimate Fighter spin-off or something, that's the perfect layout. You know what I mean?

Like you, it's going to be like out of just a new little sprinkle, a new little flavor. You know, it's like, do an Ultimate Fighter again, but do it on Five-Eyeye. Island or find some other way to make a reality show that involves live fights, you know what I mean? Or even if they're pre-taped or something. I think there's more you could do than just put on regular fights there for the international fighters. I think that you could really spice things up with some different types of shows. I mean, we love watching live fights. That's what's most important to us. That's like that's, you know, that's what this is all about. But I mean, with so much free space with no sports going on, why would you not try to film some type of show right now? You know what I mean?

there's nothing else going on. You know, you're already putting on live fight. So you would just be packing on bonus points, essentially, if you could figure out some type of show you could film on the island and turn it around and edit it and get it on air quick. You know what I mean? We'll see what happens. Maybe Dan will hear this and he'll take up my idea.

Ultimate fight or soccer kicks. Ultimate Fighter, Fight Island. I better be a freaking coach. I swear, I better be a coach. Not just because I want to be on Fight Island, but Mike, I won the longest, running season of the ultimate fighter 13 weeks 13 weeks i know how to coach a season if they come out the ultimate fighter it would be criminal not to have me as a coach at least at some point you know at

some point i got to be a coach on the ultimate fighter i would agree with that and and last thing before you let you go and i cannot believe we're going to have this conversation right now i have to say how dare you say that tapanga was a bigger heartthrobbing than heli kapowski that is erroneous michael kiazza that is erroneous i mean you're 32 so you're a youngster compared to me I got you by a few years. And I could say that when I was a kid, saved by the bell was on multiple times a day, on multiple different channels.

You could not avoid Say By the Bell even if you wanted to. And to me, Kelly Kapowski is the gold standard. She gets some demerits because she cheated on Zach Morris a couple times. But she was freaking royalty, Mike. You said it right there. She cheated. She's a cheat.

She's a heater. Topanga's a saint. She's a great, decent woman. And you know what? with all this debate that I have started about Temanga and Kelly Kapowski or whatever, what is it, Kapowski, we need to reach out to both of them and we need to get them on some type of interview where we can do some type of debate, like get them side by side, you know, get a panel of judges to ask some questions. Maybe you, me, Luke Thomas. You know, maybe we got to start getting them involved and get, you know, maybe they need to debate for themselves because obviously it's a hot topic in the mixed martial arts community right now. Maybe we need to get them involved so they can plead their case. You know what I mean? I'm a taken man. Me too.

Me too. But we all want to be great. Let's see him debate about it. You know, maybe that could be a Fight Island matchup. Maybe Topanga and Kelly Kopposki can fight about it. Screw it. Might as well. You know?

That is brilliant. That is brilliant. Wow. solves everything. We've just made history here. We've just written the book. We've written the UFC schedule for the next three months on Fight Island. I know.

Fight Island. I got, I'm just a source of ideas for Fight Island. I'm down. The Fight Island Commissioner, Michael Kiesa. I think we got something going here. Good you go. What a way to end it with the future and potential commissioner of Fight Island. Michael Kiesa, wrap it up another edition of What the Heck on MMAFighting.com.

And I still stand with my feet firmly in the ground that he is wrong in this Kelly Kipowski versus Tepango thing. And if you think it's Topanga, too, you're out of your mind. Sorry, you're just wrong. But it's your opinion. I'll respect you the way, but you're just wrong. But thanks for watching and listening to the show here on MMAFighting.com and all of our other broadcasting platforms. Make sure you subscribe.

Wherever you're getting the show, YouTube, Apple Podcast, Stitcher, Spotify, wherever you get your favorite podcast. Because not only do you get this show, you get a whole bunch of other great stuff as well. You get all the A-side live chats. You get Eurobash with Pizzi Carroll and Nile McGrath. Plus a lot of UFC 249 coverage and stuff over the next several days. that'll be popping up on all those platforms as well. And a little birdie told me that a new show is coming to the network very soon.

So stay tuned for that. And make sure you stay connected with nmafighting.com for this crazy stretch of time for the UFC, which kicks off with UFC 249 on Saturday night. Our guy Jose Youngs is in Jacksonville, getting you all ready. It's going to be providing coverage and we're going to be doing lots of stuff throughout the week and throughout the weekend. But that is it. I am done. My ramblings are finished. My name is Mike Kacken, as always. Have a heck of a week, everybody.