MMA Fighting - What the Heck: Episode 65 | Ariel Helwani, Tanner Boser, Justin Jaynes, Julia Avila & Angela Lee

Episode Date: June 29, 2021

This week on What the Heck, MMA Fighting's Mike Heck chats with Ariel Helwani (4:08) about the upcoming return of The MMA Hour beginning on Aug. 16, how it all came together, fans wanting the return of The MMA Beat, and more. Justin Jaynes (42:55) discusses betting his fight purse on himself ahead of his split decision loss to Charles Rosa at UFC Vegas 30 and the aftermath of that decision. Tanner Boser (1:10:28) recaps his second-round TKO win over Ovince Saint Preux in the co-main event of UFC Vegas 30 and talks being annoyed that the story of the fight was the controversy over the performance itself. Julia Avila (1:28:33) talks her third-round submission win over Julija Stoliarenko this past Saturday at UFC Vegas 30 and describes the emotions that came out after the victory. Finally, ONE Championship atomweight champ Angela Lee (1:43:41) discusses being back in the gym on the road to defending her title for the first time since becoming a mom earlier this year. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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The Downloaded 2. Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. This is What the Heck with Mike Heck on MMEFighting.com. Now, here is your host, Mike Heck. What the heck? Well, hello there, everybody, and welcome to a brand new edition of What the Heck here on MMAfighting.com. I am Mike Heck. Hope you're having a wonderful week and man.

And I know this is kind of cliche at this point, but there is a lot going on in the combat sports world. As usual, we're coming off of UFC Vegas 30 this past Saturday. A lot of storylines came from that card. We'll discuss some of those on the program this week. Bellator had. a pretty good event. PFL had a good event. Kabate Global had a lot of violence on that card. BKFC was insane. And look, sometimes with shows like this, I'm just a little forewarning here, things happen. And they happen moments after interviews wrap up. And that's what happened on the show this week. I'll explain that in a minute.

But we are officially on the road to UFC 264. There's no event this weekend. Titan FC is back on Friday. It's an interesting card there, but no UFC card, no Bellator, no PFL, and you know what, we have a lot to get to. So let's just run down the lineup. We'll get to our first guest, and we have a lot of guests. Five guests this week on the program. We're going to wrap things up with the one championship Adam White title holder, Angela Lee. She is back in the gym, getting ready for her eventual return to action for the first time since regaining her title.

October of 2019. She is a mom now. There's a Adam White Grand Prix coming up that's been postponed a couple of different times that she's going to have her eye on very closely. She's going to wrap us up a little bit later on. A lot of people wondering what's going on with Angela Lee. You're going to have some answers coming up to wrap us up. Julia Avila had a sensational performance on Saturday. So Mitch Julia Stolio Renco, once again, did not get a bonus, but I think she got a little bit more than a bonus because a tremendous weight was lifted off of her shoulders with that win. More on that coming up later on in the show. Tanner Bozer got back on track, snapped his two-fight losing streak,

stopped Ovin-Saint-Prew in the second round in the co-man event of UFC 30, Vegas 30, excuse me, UFC Vegas 30, UFC, what am I talking about? UFC Vegas 30 this past Saturday. Little mired in controversy, through no faults of his own, by the way. but good win for the bulldozer we will hear from him coming up as he's back in quarantine once again in Canada after yet another fight Justin Janes put it all on the line against Charles Rosa in more ways than one he came up short via split decision he was one of the big stories heading in because of an interview he had done leading into the fight he put his show money up at the betting window and lost a split decision.

We're going to get his reaction to that and more. I mean, I have so much respect for that guy for coming on here and talking about it. It's pretty amazing. But first, you heard the news last week. We talked about it last week. Ariel Hawani is coming back to MMA fighting. The MMA hour is coming back in August.

And let me just throw in there because I know how people react to these types of things. we literally did this interview and literally 10 minutes later we confirmed the Derek Lewis versus Cyril Gahn fight. So there is a stretch in this conversation we talk about like where Cyril Gahn goes from his win and we weren't really sure.

And then this happened. Okay, that happens sometimes, folks. We did react to that myself, Jose Youngs and Sean Al Shadi. Go back on the archives and check that out. But Ariel and I basically hit record. We shot the breeze and here is that conversation right now to kick us off this week on what the heck. All right.

So if you were living under a rock last week, a lot of people had been wondering what the future looked like for this gentleman, but we got a lot of answers last Monday, one of which has to deal with this here website, MMAFighting.com, the flagship show in mixed martial arts is coming home. The MMA hour will be back in your life beginning August 16th twice a week with this man, Ariel Hawani. Welcome to the program and welcome home, my man. How are you?

Oh, thank you, Mike. It's great. I don't know if I've done anything related to MMAfighting.com over the past three years. I might have missed something here or there, but this feels like my first trip back home being on your show. And it's great to be on your show. And you've done a fantastic job over the past year plus. And I was very happy when you joined the team because your roots date back several years to the MMA hour. Rick's picks and all that stuff. So it's great to be home. And of course, we could get into everything,

but I appreciate you wanting to talk to me. And it's just really nice. It's nice to be around friends and it's nice to be around such great colleagues. Well, I appreciate the kind of words very much. I'm sure there was a giant weight lifted off of your shoulders getting to finally reveal this news. It took some time, obviously, to put it all together. But here we are. So I guess a week since this announcement was made, the road has been mostly paved. There might be some other things being added to the mix in the future. But the MMA hour is now back. Like, how does it all feel now that it's out there and everybody knows about it? Oh, man, a massive weight lifted off my shoulders. Because if I'm being honest, so I left MMA fighting in 2018 and felt like I left

on pretty good terms. The only reason I wanted to leave, the only opportunity I would have left for was ESPN because it had always been a dream of mind to work for ESPN. So, signed a three-year deal around late summer of last year, you know, started to feel like maybe it would be best to start, you know, thinking about the next step that perhaps maybe I wouldn't go back to ESPN. So really, this has been on my mind for almost a year. And things only really ramped up at the beginning of this year. And then once they ramped up, it was constantly on my mind.

So at times, like I would say to my wife, I can't wait till I could just go back to worrying about if I can get so-and-so on my show or some silly fight news that no one cares about in the grand scheme of things, not my entire life and trying to plan it out. And I was trying to do something a little complicated where I was adding all these pieces together. So once it was all done, and that was not this past Thursday, Friday, the previous Thursday Friday, that felt good. And then once I could actually share with the world what I was doing, that felt even

better. And then my family and I finally went on vacation for the first time since the pandemic started to Boston. And that felt really good to be in a different setting to give my kids and my wife a vacation of sorts. And yeah, you know, I've never really taken a break since I started. And while I'll be doing some stuff here and there between now and the relaunch of the show, this is by far the biggest break of my career. And I'd be lying if I didn't say that I'm enjoying it, the sort of reset, the mental refresh. I think that distance makes the heart grow fonder a little bit. And so it's all coming at a really good time for me.

I feel at peace. I was really, really stressed over the past six months at times, like feeling really down, feeling really up as like a roller coaster of emotions. But now I feel really at peace and really good about where things stand. Now that you're like you've hit the refresh button, you're taking this little break. Did you think you would enjoy it as much as you're kind of enjoying it right now? Yes, I was dreaming of this little break because the last few months have been really, really stressful for various reasons. I mean, I think they've been stressful for all of us because of the pandemic and, you know, change of our routine.

I haven't seen my parents, my sister, my in-laws in well over a year. And so we're going to Canada soon. I'm looking forward to that finally to reunite with them. There's so much to catch up on. So like there's all these good things happening. Now it's a bit of a weird time because it's happening, you know, usually it's. historically early July there's a very big UFC pay-per-view and this one is a pretty big one. And I'm usually like right in the mix for all of that. But, you know, there will be many other

pay-per-views and many other big shows. And I'll still be doing some stuff around that particular show. So there's there's definitely moments where I'm having FOMO and I'm like, oh my God, it's Monday. It's one o'clock. I should be doing some kind of show. But again, you know, come mid-August, I think everything will will come into place. And one thing that I really, I don't want to say regretted, but I think in hindsight, we should have done differently. And I actually kind of felt it at the time, if I'm being honest. I left MMA fighting June 14th of 2018, and I returned, I went to work for ESPN on June 15th. Like, I didn't take any type of break. I remember it, like, the clock struck midnight on June 14th. On June 14th, I was at a courtroom in Brooklyn,

because Connor McGregor was having like the last kind of piece of his trial for the whole incident with the Dolly. And then on June 15th, I'm in Brueckon. Bristol, Connecticut, you know, starting this whole new life. That was a lot. It felt like I jumped on a treadmill going, you know, speed 20. And then, you know, less than two weeks after that, we relaunched my show. And I felt like we weren't 100% ready to do it, but we just kind of did it to get back on track. And so I'm liking the idea of taking a breath, making sure everything's in place and then launching or relaunching everything the right way. So how did this idea of bringing the M. May hour come to you? Like, was this something that you'd been thinking about for a while? Did it just kind of hit you? Like, you know what? I missed the studio. I miss doing the show. And, you know, you have this incredible memory anyways as it is, Ariel. Like, do you remember when that idea hit you? Like, you know what? Let's go home and see if we can do this again. Yeah, it kind of hit me. I would say around my timeline may be a tad off, but March April,

the idea started to hit me because I talked to, so just to break the fourth wall, if I can, so I was represented by an agency, CAA. I have nothing bad to say about them. I was with them for a long time. I felt like I needed a bit of a change in the early portion of this process around February. And so I parted ways with them very amicably. They were great for my career. They got me to ESPN.

I have nothing bad to say about them. but sometimes you just feel like a bit of a change is required. And I felt like this was the right time as I was going into this new era. When I did that change, I started to take things on my own. And I basically took it upon myself to make a list and to reach out to everyone under the sun. I mean, you name them, I probably talked to them in some way, shape, or form. Some conversations went very well and got into like the serious territory. Some never really got off the ground.

And that's when I started to decide, like, okay, I can make a little puzzle here and I could write for these guys and I could do a podcast for these guys, et cetera. And when it came, you know, to deciding what my sort of home thing would be, like the foundation of what I was doing, the interview show that everyone has, you know, known from me in, you know, the past like 10 or so years, the MMA hour, the Aria Hawani's MMA show that I did. did for ESPN for three years. Every conversation that I had with people, I was sort of feeling that I was trying to recreate the MMA hour. So I would ask them questions that, you know, in my mind, I like, okay, I have the studio, I have the set, I have the personnel, I have the platform, I have this and that. And I kept talking to people and I kept trying to recreate this vision of what I once had because I love that show and I love that set. I only got to stay in that set. I only got to work out of that set for a year, and I helped design it when it launched in 2017. And so I never

really felt like I truly got the most out of it. And then it kind of just hit me. I was like, why don't I just go back? It's all there. A lot of the same people are there. Vox couldn't have treated me better when I was there. Why don't I just see if there's an opportunity? And that's when I reached out to Brian Tucker, who's, you know, the head honcho over at MMA fighting and does way more than that oversees all the combat stuff as well and probably does a million other things that I don't even know about. And that's when the conversations really started. And they couldn't have been better and more open to it all. And there was that feeling of familiarity and family and friendly faces and people that I've worked with in the past that was really pulling me. And there was definitely a part of

me, if I'm being honest, I was like, hmm, do I want to go back? Like, I left. And then you go back, are you trying to go back to something that isn't there anymore? But over time, it definitely became very, very clear to me that this was the right move. And it also became clear to me that this was what the fans wanted. You know, like I've always said, I feel like I work for the fans. I feel like I'm there to serve them. And I think the reaction would back that up. They wanted this show back. This show meant a lot to them. It meant a lot to me. And so it just kind of felt like the right thing to do. What was it like going back and seeing the studio all built up? Because we saw the promo. You put the glasses on. What was that like for you?

It was surreal, man. It was so surreal. First of all, the office is completely empty. They're only two people there, Paige and Joe, and they were there on my last day. So it was great to see them. And it was like they saw a ghost. Obviously, they knew I was coming, but it was like, you know, they admitted they didn't think that I would be back. And then walking in, you know, I had just seen the, the Friends reunion on HBO Max with my wife. I'm not a big friends guy, but we watched it and it was fun. And like that scene when they walk on the set and they see an old friend, it felt very similar. I just never thought I would be able to see that again. And I love that studio. I love the way it feels. I love the way it looks. I love the way, you know, where it is. I just love

the desk. I love everything about it. And to sit back there, the microphone, like these are things that I appreciate way more now for various reasons. And just to sit back there. And also, you know, I haven't been in a studio for the past year and a half. I've been doing shows from home. And I miss being under the lights in the studio, feeling like there's a show there that I'm not just doing stuff, you know, while wearing, you know, sweatpants. And so like all of that together, coming at this time when everything was coming together and signing all this stuff. Like it just, it was, it truly felt like like medicine for my soul. It felt like I was coming home. It was a great feeling. And I just, you know, I'm very excited to get rolling again. I wasn't sure if this is the way

that it was going to go. Like obviously, I'm certainly thrilled about it. But I know just from doing shows like this and booking guests, like it can be a little stressful, right? But the same token, like it's it's kind of fun waiting for these things to come together. There's a little bit of a rush to it being like, oh, is this person going to come on? This person can come on. And then they come in and be like, oh, yeah, I could jump on in five minutes. Like, are you ready for that part of it as well to get back to booking these big shows? Get that Sunday feeling back after big events. But now you have a little bit of a buffer too with that Wednesday show. That's going to be a little bit of a relief too. So I feel like you and I are two of the very few people on the planet who probably

know that feeling because I know that you've been doing the same sort of thing for a while now. And that's a strain, man. Like I'll be honest with you when the pandemic started and we started to do DC and Halwani on Mondays instead of the regular show, it felt like a gift from the gods. Like it felt like a massive weight was lifted off my shoulders. Even when you say that Sunday feeling, like it kind of gives me like a tink. in the chest. And it was really tough. I mean, I've been doing it since 2009 and especially like you're you're flying to events and you're taking the red eye home and now you're having to book people and you're getting home and you're trying to like get ready for the show.

Like it's just a lot that Sunday, Monday. And I actually felt like it was starting to make me like the sport less because I was watching events based on who I can get on the show and you know, who would be available to me. And that's really no fun. But getting to do it. do the second show now and, you know, the show won't be as long, right? Because before it was like five, six hours, boom, there it is for the whole week. Well, now two, two and a half hours on Monday, two, two and a half hours or so on, on Wednesday, I feel like, A, if I can't get someone on Monday, then I could get them on Wednesday. The stress isn't as much and the pressure isn't as high. Of course, I'm going to try to get the biggest guess all the time. But sometimes, you know, someone's flying home on

Monday and I got to get you from the airport. I really pride of myself on getting the biggest names possible. Well, now if they're not available on Monday, I can get them on Wednesday and get someone else. Also, one good thing for my time at ESPN, I feel like I've become a lot more comfortable with sharing my thoughts with just being on my own. I feel like I've gotten that sort of confidence before I wanted to pack the show from start to finish with guests. And now I don't necessarily feel like I need to do that as much.

So there's definitely a lot of good things that came out of the experience. And yeah, I miss I miss booking the guests. I miss the rush of getting the big name. I miss the rush of being alive. I miss the rush of like everyone watching you on YouTube or whatever. All of these things are I think are really good. And again, I just felt like the fans missed it. I felt like the fans missed that show.

You know, I would love to hear from the European fans. They say like they're having dinner. It's like six o'clock and they're watching the show like that all meant a lot to me. So I'm ready for it. And I love the fact that it's on now twice a week because now I don't have to stack the show on Monday as much. Is there anything that you want to be different about this iteration in the MAA? Like obviously the interviews are going to be the focal point. But is there anything, any other elements that you want to add to it as well?

Well, I think that I will give myself a little bit of time. Maybe it's at the beginning of the show. Maybe it's at the end, you know, to give my own thoughts. I wouldn't do that as much in the first iteration. One thing I keep thinking about is when the Winnipeg Jets, the hockey team left. So the Winnipeg Jets left to Phoenix to become the Phoenix Coyotes. And then later on, the Atlanta Thrashers moved to Winnipeg, like some 10, 15 years later. And one thing that always stuck with me was when the Thrashers moved to Winnipeg and the Winnipeg Jets were reborn, they changed the logo.

they changed the whole look of the team. And I always felt like that was a big mistake because the fans really missed the old logo, the team, the nostalgia and all that. So I don't want to necessarily go back now and change the show dramatically because I think the nostalgia is getting people excited. But there are different elements here, there that I think are worth kind of tinkering with. But at the end of the day, to me, the show is about the guests, the names, the sport. Mondays, I think we'll be mostly like looking back at the weekend or the week that was

and Wednesdays will be, you know, looking ahead. So I think it's in a good spot that way. And of course, whatever news pops up. And, you know, just kind of go with the flow. Like one thing that I always liked about the show was it wasn't overly produced. It was kind of a, you know, if we wanted to do an hour with someone in studio, we did an hour. If we wanted to do 10 minutes. Like, there's really no rhyme or reason.

And that's the way I think, you know, digital shows should be. So there's a couple of questions that people have had since this news dropped. And I'm not sure if you can even answer it or provide any context to it. But the biggest question that I've gotten from people, especially fans of the website, is, can we bring back the MMA beat? Like, you have like a dozen new roles moving forward. You're already doing the MMR twice a week. Have you seen this pledge from the fans to bring back the beat? Like, are there, like, is it even in your brain right now to maybe bring the show back?

Yeah. So I have thought of that. And I even thought about, oh, maybe Mondays would be the MMA hour or Wednesdays would be the beat. I like the, I think the MMA hour is the sort of dominant brand. I think the beat definitely has, you know, a lot of, you know, a lot of brand, you know, recognition with the fans. And I think it meant a lot to people. You know, a lot of us aren't as local right now.

And I actually think that's okay. I think that one thing that we've learned over this past year and a half is that you don't have to all be in the same room and the shows could be just as good, witness what you guys have done over the past year and change. So one thing that I've thought about is almost like to make the MMA beat like a segment within the Wednesday MMA hour. You know what I mean? And so, you know, it's just the name of a, like, you know, a ton of shows have different segments

within the show, right? And so you go like 30 minutes with, you know, members of the team, you and Sean, AKA definitely not Casey. I have no idea who let that man on air. And that's one of the main reasons I wanted to come back was to get him off air. But you know what I mean? I feel like that could be a really fun element to the Wednesday show. So I've seen that. I think it could make a lot of.

sense and I would be down if you guys would be down as well. I'm definitely down. I think you made a lot of people happy with that response right there. So do you have a couple minutes to talk some stuff? Absolutely. Yes, absolutely. I thought you just wanted to break the fourth wall and talk about contract stuff and all this nonsense. But no, I love talking fight stuff. Yeah, let's talk some fight stuff. People don't want to hear about that. They're already happier back. Now they got teased at the M.A beat a little bit. They're thrilled. Now we can talk about anything. We're good to go. All right. Cyril Gahn got a very good win on Saturday night. And I brought this up on our preview show. So I want to get your take on this because the fight sort of flew under the

radar as a top five heavyweight main event because this division just has way more unanswered questions than it's had in the past. And the timing of this fight wasn't great because of those questions that we don't have answers to. So Gahn looks good against a massive dangerous guy like Alexander Volkov. Where does he go from Saturday night? Because he's in a really interesting spot right now, but I don't know if it's like a good thing or like a not so good thing. Okay, before I answer that question, I do have to ask you a question since we're fully moving on here. You need to tell, because I don't really even know the real story behind this. You need to tell us all, and I apologize if you've addressed this, you need to tell us the Rick's Pick story. Like,

how did this happen? What, what, like, how did you, I mean, first of all, it's such a pro, like, so old school MMA fans, MM hour fans will remember Rick's picks with New York Rick, Eric Jackman, you did the jingle. It was a fantastic jingle. You would think we'd pay thousands of dollars for this jingle. I need the real unfiltered behind-the-scenes story as to how this whole thing came about and how you produced such a great song. Okay.

I don't think I've ever actually told the story. I think people just knew that I did it. So I was an avid MMHA hour listener. It would come out online. It was just the perfect amount of time, too. Some people would be like, oh, it's five, six, seven. That's perfect for me. They got me like the ride to work, ride home every day.

So I was good to go. And I heard you guys talking about possibly doing a theme song. And Rick had been on like my podcast a couple of times to do like some fight pick stuff. So I don't know why I thought that it would be like a good idea for me to try to put something together. And I remember you mentioning to Rick, you want to maybe some kind of like Motown theme or something to that extent. And I was like, huh, let me see what I can do. And just during like my off time in the radio station when I was on the air, I just started playing around with stuff and I found the actual track that I wanted to use.

And then I tried out a bunch of different things like voice wise. And then once I got like sort of the female voice going, the Rick's Picks. Yeah. And I just, I was like, all right, I'm off to the races. So I wrote the song and just did it. It probably took me like four hours total to put together. Wow. That's it.

Off and on, yeah. Once I had the song, I was good. I was off the race. Who's the female? Me. Oh, so you just changed the voice? Yeah, I just put a little bit of a tone on it. Wow.

I deepens the guy who actually sang the song. Who sang the song? Me. That's amazing. And what were you? You worked for a radio station? Yeah, I did afternoons for a radio station out in the Berkshires. Wow.

And what was the content? Sports? No. It was just I was on a hit radio station, but I did a lot of production stuff too. So I like produced a lot of commercials and did a lot of different things. So once I learned how to do that, I was obsessed with it, like all different things you could do with the programs and everything. So once I put that together, Rick came on to do picks for one of the upcoming paper views.

And I was like, Rick, I want to play this for you live on the air. And I played it for him. And he was like, and that was it. As soon as he heard, he goes, I'm sending this to Ariel. We're going to have it on the air Monday. Wow. That is wild. That is amazing.

And when did you leave the radio station? 2019. We were going to try to move to a different part of the state. So I got another job like doing something still in radio but not on the air and I just didn't like it. We did it for like six months. It just didn't really work. And then from that point, that was when I had the conversation with my wife and I was like, give me a year to do this MMA thing full time and let's see what happens. Wow. You know, nine months later and with the M.A. fighting. So crazy, crazy world. How did you get the MMA fighting job? Constant emails.

I bugged Brian Tucker for months. That's amazing. Once the team started going off to different places, there were openings. And I was like, I'm just going to shoot emails and see if it'll actually respond. I think it was probably like after the 16th email, Brian was like, okay, I'll talk to you. We had a conversation and there we go. And it was like right before the pandemic, right? I came on like literally the day before everything shut down.

Jeez, Louise. What timing? It was crazy. I was, yeah, it was a little worrying for the first few months. I was like, oh, man, like, I just got this. And I wouldn't, I mean, I would completely understand if. No, dare I say, they got really lucky because you have that radio background. You have that hosting background, that presence.

And so doing things from home, doing things from a studio, it doesn't matter. So I would say that they were just as lucky as you were to get you at that exact time. So that's amazing. the way that all worked out. I believe that all these things kind of happened for a reason. I'm a big believer in all of that. And I remember when you joined, it was great. I was like, oh, my God, the Rick's Picks guy.

I didn't really know about your background. I'm sorry. I knew you had the podcast as well, but I didn't know about the official professional radio background. So I thought it was just a great story that you finally made your way there officially. And then when you started doing the stuff, I was like, oh, this is great. You have someone from home that's able to do this that actually knows what they're doing.

Because, you know, not to sound like some kind of snob, But I think everyone thinks that they can interview. Everyone thinks that they can ask questions. But I believe there's an art. There's a science to it. And I know that sounds incredibly pretentious. But I do feel like there you have to know some things when you do it to do it the right way. And you know them.

So I think that it's wonderful that it happened like right then and there. You know, because I mean, let's be honest, it would have been Casey asking the questions or something. And the whole ship would have sunk at that point. So I hope they're treating you well. Yeah, you know, I can hear you guys. Speaking of fourth walls, I'll be editing out this sander, don't worry. Oh, man, that's hilarious. Yeah, it's just, it's way better doing this than talking about Ed Shearan's new song or

I love Eddie Gaga's new album. I like him, I like them too, but, you know, when you hear the same songs over and over again, it's better having different conversations at a different level with some of these fantastic people. like yourself. I will go back to your question now, now that I got that out of the way. And that is amazing. And by the way, we talked about this off-air, but I feel compelled because every time I hear about the Berkshires, I get a warm feeling in my heart as well. I went to summer camp in the Berkshires. I was a counselor at Camp Taconic in 2000, and it was just a wonderful experience. It was, what a lovely camp that was. I don't know if you or anyone out there is

familiar with it, but one of my favorite summers as a camp counselor. So anyway, I'm Surreal Gun is really, really good, and he's come a really long way in a very short amount of time, in my opinion. And I feel that in a perfect world, him versus Steepa makes the most amount of sense. And here's why. Derek Lewis versus Francis Ngano is the next title fight. Now, they wanted it for August 7th. It's looking like that's not going to happen. They're having some trouble making the fight.

If you saw recently, I forget the outlet, so I apologize, but I think an outlet, a Brazilian outlet, reported that the Glovertshire versus Jan Bahovych fight is moving to October. And so that leads me to believe that they're trying to put the Derek Lewis versus Francis and Gunnar two fight on the September pay-per-view, which is tentatively scheduled for September 25th. But all the parts are moving right now. And so let's say they fight September 25th. Let's say they figure this out. I think that John Jones should fight the winner of that fight. I think it's a big mistake to have John Jones fight anyone but the champion when he makes his heavyweight debut. Obviously, John versus Steepa makes sense.

But to me, you want the greatest light heavyweight champion, arguably the greatest champion in UFC history to move up. I think he should fight for the belt. I think he's earned that. So let's say they fight end of September. Let's say the winner of that fight is only ready in, I don't know, January, the earliest, maybe February, okay? Now all of a sudden you have John Jones fighting the winner of that fight January, February,

and then the winner of that fight is probably only ready July, August. Like, is Stipe really going to sit out that long, a year and a half? At some point, I feel like Stipe has to fight someone other than the champion, right? Like, he can't just fight the bell. And he's the greatest, you know, a heavyweight champion in UFC history, the most decorated.

But it would be nice to see him in a non-title fight, not because he has to earn his shot, not because he has to prove anything to anyone, but like the train kind of has to roll along. And I don't want him at this point in his career. He's getting up there in age to just sit out. So I feel like Surreal Gunn versus Steepa Mietch makes the most amount of sense next. Now will Stipe take that fight?

I know he's taking the rest of the year off. He's having a kid. It might not work out. So then we're talking about like, you know, maybe Surreal just fights someone like, you know, an up in Tom Aspinall or an asker or someone like that. You know, obviously it feels like a bit of a step backwards after beating someone like Volkov. of, but I think he's in that conversation. But I really do feel like it should be Lewis and Ganu, the winner of that fights Jones.

And then the winner of that fight, the Jones versus the winner of Lewis and Ganu fights the winner of, in my opinion, what should be the steep A versus surreal gun fight. That's what I would do if I were in charge. But heavyweight is kind of very fluid right now, and especially with the Jones situation. Like, what if they can't come to terms with Jones? Then that changes everything. Yeah, I won. like in the immediate aftermath, I was like,

I wondered if he should just called out Steepay. Like I know Gons not like a big trash talker, but I wonder if he just said the name because, you know, even if he didn't get the fight, he at least put it out there. It looks good to the fans

and it looks good to the UFC that he's calling for a fight like that. And you take a roadblock potentially out of play to get to the title. So if you go in there and you beat them, you eliminate one of your potential hurdles, you leap over it, and now you're even closer to the title

than you were before, get a little more money. in your pocket. It's a tough fight. It's a risky fight considering he in the position. But I don't know. Part of me was like, you should just thrown it out there and saw what happened. If it happened great, if it didn't, people are like, wow, did you see that guy? He called out steep. It's a pretty bold move right there. Yeah, I agree. I always feel like it's good to call people out. I also feel like we put a lot of pressure on these guys and we forget that they were just in a 25 or 50 minute fight getting their heads punched. And, you know, we can forgive them if they maybe don't remember

to call someone out in that moment and they're just overcome with joy. So, you know, I try to be less critical of them in that spot. But yes, the absolute best scenario would have been him calling out steep amia-chitcher, at least trying to build to another big fight. But if you look at the rankings, if you want to put any stock in the rankings, there isn't that much space at this point between Surreal Gun and, you know, the top of the mountain. And if promoted correctly, could you imagine somewhere down the line, potentially in 2022,

Definitely in at least 2022, Francis Ngano versus Surilgan, the two former teammates fighting in France. Like, could you imagine how big that? I mean, you couldn't just scripted a better scenario for the UFC. Of course, a few things have to happen between now and then. But holy smokes. I mean, that would be one of the biggest fights in the history of European MMA. And it just so happened to coincide potentially with the UFC's debut in Paris and France. That would be incredible.

I agree. A couple quick things before we let you go. we obviously get a small reprie from UFC action, and it's on to Vegas to UFC 24, Dustin Porreier versus Connor McGregor 3. I thought the promos on Saturday for this fight were fantastic. It got the juices flowing a little bit. I'm definitely more excited about the fight

after watching those promos. I know there's no title on the line. A shot at the title could very well be on the line, but overall, like when you look at these two guys and what they stand for as fighters, what they have done in their career, outside of title contention and all that stuff, what's at stake for both?

these guys on July 10th. Oh, man. I mean, there's the obvious, right? Like, Connor has to get back on track. He needs his victory. Not because of title content or anything like that. Just for his brand, his popularity. Like, Connor will always be popular.

He'll always be the biggest star in the sport. But I do think a win would help him exponentially. And then you want to go to the next level. Like the winner of this fight, obviously we'll probably fight for the belt against Charles Alvara, Dustin Pori gets a chance to fight for the end of speeded a title again. Dustin Poria gets to essentially win the series against Connor. Doubtful that they fight for a fourth time. I know it's happened before here and there, but pretty doubtful.

So he'd be up to one. But I just think it's one of those things where like there's there's almost something poetic to this fight. If you think about it because Connor beats Dustin as he's coming up. Dustin's the guy who says, you know, you can't get past me. You're all hype and all this stuff. he beats him, Dustin is crushed by the loss, needs to kind of reinvent himself, figure himself out. Meanwhile, Connor is on this trajectory. A bunch of stuff obviously happens in between.

They meet again, you know, several years later, what is it, six and a half or so years later. And Conner's on his big comeback tour. He stumbles. Dustin wins in the midst of his reinvention and, you know, connecting with the fans and this following. And, you know, he's starting to become the man. and become a lot more famous and a lot more money. And, you know, finally, you know, Habib is out of the way. So could he be the guy at 155?

And so they both have this thing. And now it's Connor who's at the crossroads. Dustin, again, trying to stop him from, you know, getting over the hump. Dustin trying to punch his ticket. Like, there's just so much there in terms of juicy storylines. And it's one of those fights that doesn't need a belt, in my opinion. It would be silly to have made this for a title or interim title or anything like that. I think they got the best of two scenarios.

They got to make Charles Olivera into a star. He gets the parade. he gets his moment, all this stuff. And then you get this fight that doesn't need the belt. And the winner of this fight fights Charles Levera, who's as hot as can be. I mean, it's just great stuff. Also, it's, you know, July 10th. And I won't bring up the fact that the last few international fight week cards feel like they have been cursed.

And things have happened. And so hopefully it all comes to fruition and everything is good. And it just kind of feels right. Connor fighting in July, this big fight. I mean, like, just everything about it feels right. It feels good. And I just, I love the symbol. They posted that video, the man in the arena video with Dustin.

I mean, I'll be honest, sometimes the UFC leaves me scratching my head with their promo work. That was a good one. That was a job well done. I really enjoyed that. And I thought it just kind of hit all those emotional tones that I'm speaking of here. So yeah, I'm excited. 264. Let's go.

July 10th. Always been a great weekend for the sport. So hopefully it's another great one. There you go. And then last thing, I do want to touch on Wonderboy Thompson and what he's got going on on that card in the co-main event. the whole card is ridiculous, but Gilbert Burns versus Stephen Thompson is a great fight. Wonderboy can get a big boost with the win here. Burns is kind of defending his spot, so to speak, because Usman's the champion, and

that's just kind of where he is right now after the February fight. But for Wonderboy, if he wins, the fans are behind him to get back to a title shot, where does it put him in the queue? Like, does he just white right behind Colby? Is he, did he jump Colby? Is he still behind Leon? Like, what does a win for Wonderboy do for his title aspirations on a lot? short-term level.

Yeah, and it is a really fun fight card. You know, I'm bummed that we're not getting the Kevin Lee, Sean Brady fight. I really like that fight. Return to Kevin. Brady's on a roll. But that's a really interesting fight. I don't think that Wonderboy, I agree with you. The fans are behind him.

It would be nice to see him get a shot. I don't think that he would jump over Colby. I don't think that he would jump over Leon. I suspect he would be maybe at that point one away after the winner over Gilbert Burns. Like Gilbert Burns, to me, my opinion, has no pressure on his shoulders here, right? he just lost to Usman. Usman doesn't look like he's losing the belt anytime soon. So, hey, just you get a win over a Wonderboy.

As you said, you keep your spot. You're in position. See what happens in Usman's next fight. He has no pressure on his shoulders and Gilbert's still a tremendous fighter. Wonderboy is the guy who's trying to work his way back in there. The guy that he lost two twice when he was championed Tyron Woodley is now out of the promotion. So there's a path for him to get to that title shot. He just has to beat the likes of Gilbert Burns and probably one more after.

that. So a lot of pressure on Wonderboy Thompson. But he's always been that guy who, at least over the last few years, like he wins that big one. It's just the really big one that he hasn't been able to win. So I'm really looking forward to it. And I think it's an interesting style matchup as well. Like, you know, does Gilbert stay standing with him? Does he try to take him down? Does he go back to a little more of his jiu-suitu roots? He almost freaking knocked out Kamarro's been. It's like, we almost forgot about that at this point in the first round of their fight back in February so close to becoming champion. I'm sure that's eating him up inside. So it's a great, it's a great comane for a card like that. And it's a really interesting

style matchup in terms of we know what Wonder Boy is going to do. We know his style. We know what he wants to do. But Gilbert, to me, is the real interesting part of this story because A, he has no pressure. And B, I'm curious if he tries to take him to the ground and use his grappling more than he has in recent memory. It's a great fight, great card, and a lot to look forward to this summer, including the return of the MMA hour, August 16th here on MAAFighting.com. And I get to do it in a studio. I get to do it in an actual studio. I get to leave my house. People think that I'm afraid to leave my house. Now, I would tell those people, K-fabe, my friends, K-fabe. Sometimes we say things that aren't always exactly true. Like, that was me playing a character, guys. Come on, of course,

I've left my house. I've left my house that they would have a worn a match. Since the beginning of this whole thing. No, I'm just joking. It is great. It is great to be back. You have done a phenomenal job. Everyone has done a phenomenal job. And I'm just really happy to be a part of the team.

And I'm happy that some of the familiar faces are still around or are back as well. Shaheen Al-Shadi, Casey's there. Gilema is there. Obviously, Brian is there. Jed is there. This is the big problem with trying to name names off the top of your head. I'm trying to think of if I'm missing anyone else. Oh, AK Lee, of course.

course, my fellow Canadian is still there, kicking ass, very sassy, AK Lee. But what's exciting is the new faces as well, part of this new era, Jose, yourself, Stephen, Damon, Alex. If I'm missing anyone, please, please, please forgive me. But you know, you get the sentiment. It's just great to be back. They say you can't go home again, Mike, but I'm here to tell you you can go home again. And I just can't wait to be unfiltered. I can't wait for the shackles. to come off. I can't wait to just say what I want about whomever I want, however I want to do it from that studio and to talk to the biggest names in the sport and to do it at the place that was so near and dear to my heart for almost a decade, MMAFighting.com. So it's great to have this reintroduction

via your show. I appreciate you having me on. And I will apologize to you publicly. I've sort of given you a bit of the stiff arm over the last few months, only because I knew this was coming, Mike, and I thought it would be now imagine we would have done this in May and you were like, I wasted it, right? Isn't it better now? Didn't it all work out? It all worked out.

It was a look to the fourth wall. The last, because I've been bugging him, I've been bugging Ariel for months to come on between the lengths and go up against Jed or some of the other folks that we've had on the show. And normally it's, you know, I got to go do the NBA.

You got to do these things to do. The last one was a one word response and you just said soon. And I was like, oh, what does that mean? I was like, and then when I found out, I was like, ah, well played, sir, well played. Yes. And if I'm being honest, like, look, when you're an Aistair like myself, you can't, you know, grapple with Gibbons like Jedmishu.

I mean, let's be honest. You know, they got like, I mean, I would be sort of like, could you imagine me versus Casey on a show like that? I mean, could you imagine? Like, you would never see John Sina going up against the Brooklyn brawler on Monday Night Raw. It just doesn't happen. So, like, once you guys find an opponent that's sort of at my level, knowledge skill-wise, then maybe I will consider the, the invitation. All right. Well, we look forward to that. We'll have to scour the depths to try to find such an opponent for you, Ariel. But thanks, man. I appreciate you coming on. And,

man, am I excited for August 16th, man? Welcome back again. Thank you, Mike. I appreciate it. For the second straight week, a little bit of a talking heads opener, this time with Ariel Hawani. Don't miss the return of the MMA hour, August 16th, right here on MMAFighting.com, Mondays and Wednesdays coming real soon. As we move ahead to the guitar hero, Justin Jane's big story heading into Saturday night, lost a tough split decision, and now let's see where he's at, right now and what the heck. All right, let us move ahead to another one of the big stories heading into this past Saturday's UFC Vegas 30 event.

He made a lot of headlines coming in, mostly due to the belief in himself. Unfortunately, it did not go his way. He dropped a split decision to Charles Rosa after a fun 15-minute battle, so I appreciate him coming on to discuss the aftermath of it all. Justin Jains, kind enough to join us on what the heck. How are you, sir? I'm doing well yourself. I'm doing great.

So let's start with all the attention you got heading into this fight because you did an interview, I believe, with overtime heroics, and you let it be known that you were betting your purse on yourself to win this fight. Unfortunately, the fight went the way that it did. How does it all feel a couple days later? Man, it's just another day in the office, man. I was prepared, as I said, for all outcomes. You know, win or lose.

you know whether I won the bet or lost the bet again I was prepared for all outcomes obviously it doesn't feel you know I'm a gamble a lot man but that's by far the biggest you know just just come up short and a split decision really sucks but you know what it is what it is I'm a grown man

and I'll pay my debts and on to the next man I still believe myself and I would have no problem doing it again how did you how did you score the fight I don't know if you went back and watched it after the fact but how did you score it in your own mind You know, here's, it's, it's just a slippery slope on it, especially scoring for MMA, because, you know, I do feel Charles had more volume, but he wasn't, he wasn't landing any shots. I mean, like, I didn't, I don't, I'm not bruised up.

I wasn't, you know, it's frustrating, man, because when I landed my shots, I was cracking. And when he was landing his shots, I mean, they're, they're like mosquito bites, man. So I thought I won the first round, you know, he took me down with like 40 seconds left in the first round. I reversed out of it relatively quick. You know, that kind of negates the takedown, I feel. And again, landing the stronger strikes, I thought I won the first round going into the second. You know, we ended up in this kind of this awkward position where he was hammer-fisting me. But, again, not damaging shots, you know, and I lost the second round for sure just because of that awkward position we were getting in.

I come out slugging in the third. I knew he was hurt, you know, and I'm getting a lot of criticism for, oh, why did you take him down? Well, you know, after I'm finishing with that flurry, although I am cracking, and my punches are slowing down. You know, we've been fighting for 15 minutes. The lactic acid is filling up, you know, in my arms. And I can feel my punches slung down. I started hitting him to the forearms. And then we just were so close.

So I took him down knowing that or assuming after watching Bryce Mitchell that he gave me a side choke. And sure, shit, he gave me the side choke. And, you know, I knew I had to finish the side choke. And I thought I had a better chance finishing the side choke than actually putting him down on the feet. so, you know, try to use a little bit more fight IQ than I probably should have. And it is what it is, man. It's it's heartbreaking. But, you know, I'm not sure about it.

Hindsight, obviously, is a fickle beast in the entire world. And, of course, in the fight game, do you regret going for the takedown? I mean, I know it's, it happened. It is what it is. But if you could do it again, would you have kept it on the feet? You know, I don't really know. you know, it's, we can always say what we could do or what we would have done, but what if I would have finished the side choke, then I would have been a genius.

You know, everyone was like, oh, my God, I can't believe you took him out. Oh, shit, you finished side choke. You know, it's, again, watching the Bryce Mitchell fight, Bryce had him in the side choke a whole bunch, like five or six times. I felt with him being tired. I could hear him breathing hard. It felt with him being rocked that I was strong enough that I could, you know, finish it. So I can't say I regret it.

On the feet, you know, it's, again, man, fatigue was setting in. My punches were slow. him down. I'm not sure if I could have. Maybe I could have. Maybe I couldn't have. But again, it's just one of those things, you know, the people, the people love you if you win, they hate you, if you lose. Again, if I would have finished the side choke after I took him down, I would be the smartest fighter. My fight IQ would be through the roof. Obviously, since the submission didn't go through, I'm, you know, the dumbest fighter in the UFC. So it is what it is, man. And I can't say, I regret what I did because, you know, that was my 72nd or 73rd MMA fight. So I feel I do have a pretty

high fight at Q. You know, it just happened to be in the circumstance of, you know, after I threw that right hand, my shoulder was so close to him. It was just almost reactions to grab onto him. And then when I took it, he went down so easy again because he was rocked. And again, I thought I could find this submission and get the dramatic win. But it is what it is, man. I can't, I don't have regrets in the bet that I placed.

I don't have regrets in the decisions I've made. And, you know, hopefully that, you know, me believing in myself inspired someone else to believe in their self. And at the end of the day, that's where I'm going to chop it up to. You know, it's, uh, money comes and goes, but believe in yourself, uh, needs to be permanent. Was it, do you think the, the choke was close? Did you feel like he was fading and there's just a matter of time? Yeah, well, it was very, very tight choke. Um, I was listening to his breathing, uh, Charles is black ball jitza. It's not the first time he's been in that bad position, you know, he was talking on the phone, he had his hand up, you know, just, and I was ready for that.

But again, uh, you know, I thought I was strong enough to, you know, with that amount of time, left in that circumstance to be able to finish. I was listening to his breathing. You know, he was having a hard time. He was having labor breathing. And unfortunately, you know, just can't work out for me, man. What was the conversation like between the second and third rounds? Because you came out, guns blazing, it was almost like you knew you needed to get the finish,

like you sort of alluded to earlier. But what were your coaches saying to you before you went out for the third? That I needed a finish. That's all I remember I'm telling me. And I'm always looking to the finish. I don't coast to the finish line. Even if I had won the first round, the second round, I still probably would have done the same thing in the third.

Again, I'm not fighting. I don't want to fight for boring fights. I want, you know, drag them in, throw them out, bang them up, fights. You know what I mean, I probably could take some guys down and lay on them for 15 minutes and grind out these decisions. But, you know, unfortunately, my ego gets the better of me. And, you know, I want exciting fights.

And I want people to be excited to see me fighting. To watch guys just be taken down and lay down is very boring. and, you know, I told myself before this fight that I was going to make it a boring fight, but once I got in there, I got all the adrenaline, and I threw that game planner out the window. And if I had any regret, I'm not going to say I regret doing that, but I guess I could have been a little smarter about it. Try to make it more boring fight and more care about the win than the excitement. But it is what it is, man fighting. I fight for fun.

The money's great. But, you know, it's, I wanted it to be exciting and hopefully it was exciting. Yeah, I mean, the storyline heading in with the best. That made it even more exciting. It was one of the biggest talking points of the entire car. Did you think that this would become such a big story heading into the fight? No, and that's the crazy part because people keep saying, oh, this is a publicity stunt.

Listen, I don't care if you believe me. I don't care if you don't believe me. My family knows that. I fucking lost. Don't you think, like, if this was a publicity stunt, I would have been raving about this weeks prior? You know, there is no mention of it. And I only mentioned it to the one podcast over.

time of heroics. You know, and I believe that might have been the only person I mentioned it to. Then ESPN picked it up and it went big. If this was a publicity stunt,

I would have been going crazy about it the whole time. Like I said, again, I only mentioned it a couple times and I barely touched on it when I did. I had no idea I was going to get

this kind of hype. You know, it's one of those things that the whole, it all started with a teammate of mine that, you know, last year or the year before, told me, he goes, I'm going to bet my whole person

myself. And I was like, holy shit, that's gangster like that. That's a gangster move. and then he didn't do it. And I was like, well, I got that fucking, like, I was like, oh, wow, that's dumb. And then, you know, I was talking to, you know, Eric Nixick at the gym.

And I told him, I'm going to do it. And he's like, dude, that's fucking awesome. And, you know, when I say I'm going to do something, I do it, obviously I could have backed out, you know, I could have backed out, you know, the week of because, you know, I did all my bets through credit. And, you know, unfortunately, you know, now my paycheck's gone. but I had no idea I was going to get any publicity with this. I had no idea that it was going to get this big. But it is what it is, man. And haters are going to say it's fake.

And it is what it is, man. I look at my bank account this morning and I know it's not there. What was the actual number? It was right below, it was like right around 20,000. It wasn't 25,000. What I said in Oberheim is it's going to be, I was going to pay my show money. And he said, what is that around us? that's around 25,000.

Well, I still have to pay my manager, and I still, and although my coaches did say that will ride or die with me, it's, you know, I'm going to pay them too. All right. Well, that's good. The reaction to this fight, you know, the bet on yourself, it's one of those moments in our sport, especially in the aftermath, that kind of sucks because it was such a gangster move,

as you said, but it's brought out sort of the worst in some of the fans of the sport, and even some of your fellow fighters decided to, you know, sort of pour salt on the, wound, so to speak. What have you made about how people have chosen to react to your situation? You know, it's just one of those that I really, I really just don't care. You know, it's, it's not their money. It's my money. I can bet on whatever I want to bet on, man. And, you know, I love betting MMA. And every week, every time there's a UFC show, I bet almost every single

fight, even if I don't know the guy, just to just for fun. And you know what? I thought to myself, It's like, dude, who better to bet on than a guy I personally know and more than personally know. You know, and somebody that I believe in more than anybody, when I'm digging through the trenches in the middle of a fight, when I'm tired, you know, this is what was going through my head. You know, there's plenty of times where I was tired or sore in training. And it's like, oh, I'm going to take the day off. I was like, oh, hell, no, you're not. You got a lot of money on this fight. This is at least shit.

It's definitely the biggest bet I've ever made maybe two or three times. the biggest bad I've ever made. So, you know what? I don't know why anybody's so, I don't know why people are so upset about this. People are saying, oh, you scammed me. You got me to believe in you. You got me to put all my money on you.

You know, here, that's a you problem. You know, I have my own problems. I just lost a fight. I lost my purse. You know, you don't hear me going after people and blaming other people for my decisions. You know, and I think that's very immature, whether it's a fighter, whether it's a fan, you know, let me do what I want.

And if you want to follow, that's, that's on you. And that's not my problem. So people, so people, you made this massive bet on yourself. You bet your show money, essentially, outside of what you had to pay your managers and your coaches. And people are actually blaming you for this. Oh, yeah. Because they bet, they bet on your belief.

That's insane. Yeah, this, this one guy hits me up. And he tells me that it was a, he's like, you're running a scam. You got, you scammed all. these people to bet on you be like by saying that you believe in yourself so much you know you're you're giving a false sense of confidence in these betters and you scam them i'm like motherfucker like how am i how did i scam you like i don't get anything for you losing money what the hell are you talking about man i lost and you know what the worst part is it's like these guys put me in like a $20 parlay or a

$50 parlay or bet a hundred bucks on me like i just bet my income for the next five months you know or four months or, you know, until I fight again, you know, it's like, man, get the fuck out of here. I don't have time for that shit. And you know what? Or my favorite is you owe me, you owe me. You own me. You collect 4055, West Sunset, there Monday through Friday, whatever you think I owe. You come get it.

Wow, that's hilarious. How many DMs did you think you've gotten? Like, have you gotten hundreds? Thousands? Maybe, maybe 1500. I mean, they're not all bad. They're not all bad. I'd say it's probably

probably 30% of them are bad you know and then the other and I get a lot of praise there's a lot of people that you know like hey man that's a gangster move you know and some of them are like hey I bet on you and I'll bet on you again you know for someone that believes in the self that much and you know I put it all on the line it wasn't I never folded at any time of the fight you know I was always trying to knock them out I was always for the finish you know when people take guys down like I've seen guys get rocked and they take them down they just

hold them I took him down with the intent to I took him down with the intent to submit him. And, you know, that's, and that's, and that's that. I was still looking to finish, finish the fight. There's no doubt about that. But unfortunately, you know, Charles has great grappling defense, and I, and I fell short. So, you know, these people are, are just delusional. I don't even, I can't even imagine blaming somebody else.

Like, I'm a grown man. I can't imagine blaming another grown man for my decisions. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, embarrassing and all these messages are so embarrassing and I just said at first I was upset and now I just laugh and it's like man these people are so pathetic that they're blaming a fighter that risk everything. I lost $100. Listen, I don't know where my career is going to be next month. I didn't I don't collect a paycheck this month. Um, like these people don't even understand how much I've risked to do what I do or to get where I'm in. You know, my whole life has been all in situation. I come from a little town called Richmond, Michigan. I graduated with 100 people. You know, when I graduated college at Olivet College, you know, I was faced with a decision.

You know, do I want to become an MMA fighter? If I want to become an M.A fighter, I have to go all in, you know, there's no stops. I'm not going to work at 9 to 5 and try and train in the evening, try and compete with the best fighters in the world. I sold my soul to the devil. I moved to Michigan. I moved away from my family.

I moved away from my son for the last 10 years. I missed 10 years of him growing up so I could pursue this dream to get to the UFC. And all these people want to share me, you know, you know, F all those. guys, man. It's, it's, it's, I'm an all in kind of guy. When I say I'm going to do something, I don't half ask it. I go all in and, you know, this kind of was the last statement. This kind of like was my, was my thing from the beginning of my career, whether it was financial, whether it was, you know, again, I moved from Michigan, Richmond, Michigan, all the way to Las Vegas,

Nevada to train to get to the UFC and I got there and, you know, I wanted to go one more time all in. You know, I just fell short this time. So it is what it is. You are, you're kind of an interesting spot right now because of this whole thing. I mean, losing four. straight, but like you said, you've been a go-to guy for the company. You've taken fights on short notice. You always go out there and you look to finish. Your battles are never boring, but you're in an interesting spot right now. Like, what do you think happens? Like, do you think you're going to get another shot? Like, has there been any indication to this point as to what will happen next? Uh, yeah, I have no idea, man. I'm just going to play this day by day.

Uh, you know, unfortunately, you know, all my fights prior to this one have all been short notice, man, and it really sucks. So I was really looking at this as my UFC, my real UFC debut, you know, in shape as you saw at Wands. I was in phenomenal shape. A stronger, you know, Matt Crawley, my strength conditioning coach over at the PI, he's been putting in overtime with me, all my coaches is extreme couture, you know, putting in the extra road work. Like, it was that, it was, that was, that was the real debut of the guitar hero, man.

The four fights prior to that were me rolling off the couch and, you know, giving it in fighting on all heart, you know. How, how can I fight Devante Smith, who has a, has a 12-inch reach advantage on me on three-day notice. I have to wrestle him. You know, if I was to fight Devante Smith again, I would have a game plan to take him down, put him like him, excuse me,

pin him up against the fence and wrestling. But when you're rolling off the couch, you don't have the cardio to do that. So now I have to strike with a striker that has a 12-inch reach advantage on me. And you know what? Fuck it. I wanted it. And I threw my hands again.

You know, I heard him in the first round. You know, unfortunately, I couldn't follow up. Just I couldn't get through his reach. again preparing for for for for these fighters on short notice is tough so um you know again back to it is what it is man you know these were all great opportunities i'm very grateful for all my short notice opportunities uh but you know uh june 26 was it was the ufc debut of the guitar hero man and hopefully i get another shot i don't have any expectation uh if i do or if i don't i'll prepare for whatever happens as i said before the fight i was prepared for all outcomes that if that means

my contract's over you know um or if i get cut it is what it is man it's a bummer, but you know what? I don't cry. I don't salk. I'm not crying over this money. I'm not going to cry with the contract. I'm going to go home. I'm going to get back in the gym.

I'm going to do what I have to do to get my contract back, and you'll see the guitar hero back in the cage. You know, hopefully sooner than later. But if it's later than sooner, it is what it is. Man, I'm here for the long run. Again, I sold my soul to the devil. I'll never get the 10 years back of my son growing up. But with that being said, you know, he's with me right now.

And he's getting to see me go through all this adversity. and he's going to see me overcome all the adversity and prevail in the end. And that's what it's all about to me, man, is it's just perseverance and mental toughness and 20K again losing, you know, 20, whatever it was, it was like a little bit over right around there and whatever it was. Like, yeah, again, that sucks. But at the end of the day, you know, if I inspired some kids to go to wrestling practice one more day a week or, you know, inspired some kids to really hold on to a dream and really

sell out and really believe in themselves in the long run, that I mean that that's that's kind of how I'm chalking it up right now man I inspired somebody with his teenager whether it's you whether it's anybody and you know they do better with their life and you know I can be okay with that I saw a picture from your Instagram probably like three months ago speaking about your son he's got himself into wrestling I saw that you surprised him you flew back to Michigan to watch his first wrestling match like what what was that like for you to to see him get on the mats and

kind of pursue this avenue? You know, it's, it was, it was very surreal. You know, he didn't expect that I was going to be able to make it, you know, living in Vegas. You know, I, I found out about his wrestling, his wrestling matches like on Wednesday. I found out about it on Monday. First thing, booked his spirit $600 plane ticket.

And you know what? They're like, oh, no, just go to this next one. You know, you'll have one in two or three more weeks. And, you know, I was like, nah, I want to be at his first one, you know, because, you know, it took me a long time to get him. him in wanting to do wrestling. You know, he didn't like it at first. It's a tough sport.

And I don't care if, you know, he becomes a fighter or not. I just want him to have that wrestling grit, that wrestling mentality of never give up and never surrender kind of thing. And, you know, whatever he decides to do, whether he wants to be a doctor, whether he wants to be a fighter, whether he wants to be a ballet dancer. I just want him to be the best one there is.

And, you know, that's kind of the demonstration I'm trying to lay here is I'm not going to, I'm not saying I'm the best, I'm the best fighter in the world, but I'm going to take the ability that I have and the strength that I have and the mental toughness than I have and see how far I can go and hit the ceiling as far as I can go, whether it makes, whether that means I'm the UFC champion or whether it means that, you know, I just have a career in the UFC. I want to take my abilities and push them and I want him to do the same with whatever he decides to do with her again, if it's school,

he wants to be a doctor, all right, well, he better be the best damn doctor and really wants to be a surgeon. He must be a pianist, whatever, whatever he wants to do. I just want to be the best of whatever he does. And that's the kind of, that's kind of the, the MO that I'm trying to leave behind for me. How did he react to the to Saturday and the bed and all that stuff? It's uh, it's actually kind of funny because I, you know, when I lost in a couple of fights, he was very, he was pretty emotional about it and I'm pretty upset. And at this one, you know, it's, uh, he came over and gave me a hug and he said, he said, I thought that you won the fight, dad and told him how upset I was and, you know, that thought you won the fight. I thought you

you heard him more than he hurt you and that's, it's a fact. Uh, but at the end, um, but at the end of the day, the only people that matter who thought you want are the judges, man. And, you know, I'm always looking for the finish and the whole fight. I was, I was looking, I was looking to finish. Hold on one second. Five minutes. Hold on. Thank you. Sorry. I'm in a hotel with my kid right now on housekeeping. Just honked on our door. I don't know. So, but what was the question? I'm sorry. I lost track for a second. No, just, uh, his reaction. action to the loss. He felt like that I won. And, uh, you know, I'm very grateful that he felt

that way. And, you know, it's, uh, you know, I'm biased, man. And, uh, it just is what it is, man. It's a lot of people thought I won and, I'm sorry, a lot of people thought I won. But, uh, the only people that, you know, the judges didn't. So, you know, I am, judging is a tough is, is a tough job. But, you know, and I typically don't complain about judging ever because I'm not a judge. but 3027 really just gonna ask you about that really like like I was disgusted like I like okay 29 28 I don't agree with it but I understand that I can see an argument being made no 30 27 I like like what are you what are you watching you watching another fight on your phone I was very disgusted you know these these judges need to be held accountable again I'm not saying that oh this should be overturned this was all blatantly a win that's not what I'm I'm saying, but it definitely wasn't 3027. And it's disgusting that a judge would even score it like that. But it is what it is, man.

And at the end of the day, I can sit here and cry to you and I can cry to everybody about it. I don't get my money back and I don't get the win in the one column. So it doesn't matter. You've had five fights in the UFC in just over a year. I mean, the short-noticed debut was an amazing moment for you. But I think the theme of this conversation in the last 48 hours or so of your life is just living your life. is just living your life with no regrets, like going all in and it is what it is,

how freeing is that being able to live life that way? Oh, it's, I mean, freeing is a, is a, is a, is a, is a, is a interesting word to, to use it. I understand how you're trying to use it, but it, you know, it's, you know, I, you know, I won't get in too much detail, but, you know, when I graduate at college, my uncle owns, owns a engineering company in Michigan, and, you know, he offered me a job, and I would make a great amount of money, probably, you know, make six figures a year and have a pension and see my kids and see my family all the time. But that's just living, you know, the average life. You know, anybody can do that, man. I want to go above and beyond. So this whole free thing,

it's a very stressful lifestyle. But when you, you know, knock Frank Camacho out in 40 seconds, those moments make it so worthwhile, man. And this, like I said, losing this money really hurts and it really sucks. And, you know, I'm going to have to, you know, dig deep and figure it out. But, you know, life, I like my life like a puzzle, man. I'm always trying to figure it out. I'm always trying to figure out my next move. And right as of right now, I don't know what my next move is.

But over the next week or so, you know, I'll come up with something, you know, and I'll figure it out, man. I like it's, because again, yeah, you know, like you're absolutely right. It's a free lifestyle. I do what I want, when I want, but in circumstances like this, you know, when you come up short, you know the highest highs and the lowest lows you know it's like when i fought frank camacho you know it's like i'm going in there i'm swinging as hard as i can and you know maybe i get knocked out frank's a great fighter maybe i don't you know fortunately i had that was the highest high and this is one of the lower lows but again i pay my debts i know i knew what i was getting into i was prepared for all outcomes i was

prepared to lose i was prepared to win and here we are lost it's stressful um i don't know as of right this second you know what's going to happen over the next couple days but it all works out man i always figured out. And I always persevere no matter how tough it gets. And, you know, I do it myself, man. And again, it's just going back. And I want kids to see, you know, like the perseverance that I'm, that I'm going to put myself through and maybe motivate him. My son, like I said, he gets to be a part of all of it and see it all. So, you know, in 10 years, you know, if he, you know, in whatever field he decides to go in, he's going to remember the day the dad lost all the money he had and figures it out. He's like, you know, he's going to go, you know, lose $100.

playing blackjack one day and he's going to go oh I'm sorry like oh there was that one day my dad lost everything he had and uh you know and he persevered through and I'm going to get through this just fine and uh like I said like I've said in all my interviews I'm not shook by this and it just another drop in the bucket man I'll figure it out and uh again perseverance is my friend so let's go yeah I I meant more from like a mental clarity standpoint because most most other people like you said like they're in that situation you got you got fans hitting you up because you lost them 100 bucks you know a lot of people they're they're probably taking this worse than you are right now which but like just having that mental clarity of knowing like i knew it i was ready for all outcomes

that's got to be a little like a little less weight upon you if that that makes sense yeah yeah absolutely man and it's it's funny because i talked to my coach roman isbel you know before we walked out and i just felt so good and so and i told him i said hey man i have no regrets of what happens in this fight. If I lose, if I lose my money and I lose this fight, you know, and he's encouraging me, of course, oh, you're not going to lose. Oh, you're like, Roman, I've done everything perfect. My diet has been perfect.

My training has been perfect. I've been injury-free. We have a great game plan. You know, sometimes I just get a little more stubborn in that stand-and-bang kind of mentality instead of imposing my will and taking them down like we wanted to a little bit. But again, at the end of the day, I did what I wanted. I came up short and I'll continue to do what I want. And like I said, maybe next time, if me and Charles were on it,

back again and maybe that'll happen maybe the UFC will be like all right hey the guy's a close fight Charles Ross and Justin James too let's run it back and you know what I'm not opposed to to doing it again and showing people that I am the real deal and you know I put my money where my mouth is you know all these people talk about oh I'll whip this guy's ass I'll whip that guy's ass I'm gonna win this fight you know Charles before the fight

I'm gonna knock him out in the first round like motherfucker for one I've never been knocked out and for two you know the close I've been was Gavin Tucker and for two I don't think Charles has ever knocked anybody out so that It didn't make any sense. And, you know, he made a meme. You know, and he was very playful, of course. There's no, there's no animosity towards it.

But he made a meme. Oh, you made the wrong bed. You did like a John Claude Van Damme thing. And it was like, all right, hey, no problem. If you believe in yourself that much, put your money on yourself, playboy. I'll put mine on myself. You put your on yourself. And let's see who believes in the sophomore.

And you know what? I heard fucking cricket. So it is what it is, man. Nothing but respect for Charles. I was, I'm glad he was a good competitor, very tough guy, very nice guy. but but don't come at me telling me what I've done is wrong when you don't have the guts to do it yourself.

I know I alluded to this at the beginning of the show, but I'll say it again. It takes a lot of gusto. It takes a big man to not only put that kind of pressure on yourself to have that belief in yourself, but after it all kind of falls through and you come up a little bit short, to come on here and talk all about it and answer the questions,

sheesh, that is something else. I got so much respect for, Justin Janes and good on him. Much appreciated. It's, uh, it takes a lot. It takes a lot. I'm, uh, I'm blown away. As we, uh, we head up north to Canada and let us check in with the recently

victorious Tanner Bozer. All right. Let us move ahead to Tanner Bozer who competed on this past Saturday's UFC Vegas 30 card in the co-made event. He stops open St. Peru in the second round. Back on track is the bull. is the bulldozer. How are you, sir? Oh, I'm doing all right, man. Thanks. How are you guys doing?

Doing great. Big finish, back of the wind calm. The two-fight skid is now a thing of the past. Now it's a chance to turn it into a winning streak the next time you compete. Would you say there was a bit of sigh of relief on Saturday once the fight was over? Huge relief, actually, yeah, for sure. So this was wild to see get put together because obviously OSP loses an opponent. You were put in there not long after. We learned. You also got a four-fight deal with the company upon agreeing to this boat. And you had just fought earlier in the month and you wanted to get back in quick.

So from your end, like, how did this happen? Like, when did you know about it? What did you think of the opportunity of stepping in and fighting Ovin, St. Peru? I ended up having about a week and a half notice because I got the call that it was possible on Tuesday, like a week and a half before. They said, did you want to fight Oven St. Peru next Saturday? I said, yeah. And they said, Kate, well, we'll ask him. And they said, we forwarded, we forwarded him asking about the boat and you'll should know soon. And then the next day, I got confirmation that it was a go. So that's all that happened. I got my manager to ask

Mick Maynard for a quick turnaround in a fight soon. And they came through. If you got to list like a hundred names you could have fought, would, would Ovin St. Peru have been on that list? No, because I mean he wasn't even in heavyweight technically. He just decided to come up and take the fight because he wanted to fight. And maybe I was the only guy that would do it. And he'd been at heavyweight not long before. And then he missed light heavyweight right after.

So I think UFC had some kind of cause there to try and get him to go off to heavyweight for one. But credit to him for doing it and for stepping up a weight class to save his fight. And yeah. I saw your interview with James Lynch and because of how the world has been over the last 16 or so months and you're dealing with the now back in quarantine, but you were still essentially in quarantine since you got back from the fight with the Lear Latifie. So what was sort of like the day-to-day like getting ready for the fight with the limited time you had before you actually headed out to Las Vegas? None. I couldn't, I can't leave my apartment. So I just stayed inside and I have a pair of.

40 pound dumbbells and a medicine ball. And there's not, I live on the third floor. There's people below me. It's not like I can skip. You know what I mean? I can't hide. So, yeah, there's not a lot I can do, but I just kept eating healthy. And I knew that I'd still be in shape.

I trained so hard all the time. It's not ideal circumstances. But I knew when push came to shove, I could go put in three hard fives if I had to, yeah. Did you go out like the Monday or Tuesday before fight week? or did you try to get a little earlier? I got off quarantine the morning of the that I had to leave. So I didn't get to do anything. I got off quarantine and went to the airport.

Oh, man. So you, and this was kind of a story heading in, and I don't know how it got to be that way. And correct me if I'm taking it out of context, I wouldn't say you entered this fight with like a chip on your shoulder, but it seemed as if you welcomed the added pressure of the situation, if that makes sense.

Like you had lost the two straight. You got the new deal. You wouldn't, you know, take the new deal as a get out of jail free card. You still felt like, man, if I lose this one, my job is still potentially on the line. Or at least in my next fight, my spot on the roster could be on the line. Like, is that the right way to explain it? Like, but the extra pressure, the stakes, if you will, did the fight week just feel different for you compared to maybe some of the others that you've had?

I don't know if fight week felt different, but you're right. There was a lot of extra pressure because of the spot I was in. Yeah, maybe there would have been a little bit of grace if I would have lost that one because I took it on short notice, maybe. But a new deal is cool and all, but you can be cut after any loss. So there's no necessary, like 100% security there. So if I lost, then yeah, for sure, if I was given the good grace to be able to fight one more time, if I would have lost one after, then I'm out 100%. So I don't think I relished it.

It's a bad spot to be in. It's not like I was stoked about it. It sucked. It's terrible to not know if you're going to still have your job should things go sideways. But I salvaged it. And I know everybody liked the chip on the shoulder thing. Everybody kind of ran with that. I didn't really have a chip on my shoulder.

There was a lot of pressure. And I needed to save myself. Yeah. I think you just approached it with a very realistic view. Like anybody in any job that was kind of in a similar situation would look at each day that, you know, this could be the last one. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I just felt like you were real about it. I don't think like you were doing anything different.

You know what I mean? Yeah, no, I don't really like the sugarcoat stuff. I keep a pretty straightforward, I think. The fight begins. Ovens is a slow starter. He knows it. Everyone who's followed his career knows it. You took advantage of that.

A lot of quick movement, hard kicks to the leg. hard kicks to the body. I know you probably weren't expecting him to just come out on fire, but did you think he came out slower than maybe you had seen in his prior fights? I mean, he's had a lot of fights. So has he come out faster in some fights? I'm sure he has, yeah.

But, I mean, I'd like to obviously attribute that to what I was doing and not just say that, oh, Ovinz was slow. Well, I mean, I came out firing, and I know I have a power advantage. and I think maybe he wasn't used to that. I kicked him pretty hard in the legs and pretty hard in the body pretty quick. Those were some hard shots and it made him hesitant and my movement made him hesitant. And I think it was a surprise to him that he's the light heavyweight typically and I was faster and that threw him off.

Did you feel like that was something you were going to have advantage with even before you put pen to paper on this fight? Like you would have the speed advantage over him even though he was a weight class below you? Yeah, I already knew that. 100% I knew that. So second round, he gets the takedown. He's inside control. He looked to be going for that, you know, Pat and Von Pruchoke that had been so successful in his career.

But you were wise to it. You knew it was coming. You know you have to mind your P's and Q's in the situation, no doubt about it. But I don't know. To me, it just felt like the longer you were on your back and the longer you weren't in that much danger, the more your confidence started to build in that moment,

which ultimately led to the finish. Is that accurate? Did you start to feel more confident? it, like the more time went by and the more that you were able to avert him from putting that move on you? No, that didn't have anything to do with it. I just knew that he used, he had a nice takedown, but I knew he used energy to get it and it takes energy to keep me on the ground

because if you aren't expending energy, I will get up. So he couldn't keep me there forever. And then when I got up, he was tired. And he was also beat up already. I'd landed big shots. His legs were hurt. His body's hurt, and I just got up, and he was desperate. So then I was just, I could sense already that he's getting desperate.

He started shooting desperate takedowns right after, and then I was able to finish him. I don't think it was because I, like, gained confidence from not getting submitted or something. I knew not to put my arm around his neck. That's just what you don't do. Don't put your arm around his neck. It won't bother you, so. So there you go. It was obviously a strange sequence.

of events that led to the finish because on the broadcast, you know, the whole fence gate BS, Jason Herzog for a moment thought you were part of that as well. Turns out you did not grab the fence. In fact, you may have revolutionized the get-up in the heavyweight division with the way you used your fist to start the process of getting back to your feet. You eventually did, and that was a wrap. What's going on in your mind as the finishing sequence was happening? Like the 30, 45 seconds before that, like what is happening in your mind with all this going on besides, oh, I have a chance to finish this, man. I'm going to do it. Okay, so let's call it cage gate, not fence gate.

It has a better ring to it. None of that went through my head because I'm in a fight. I'm in a fight right now and I just got to my feet. At no point did my brain register that Daniel Cormier is over there screaming, that's bad like 400 times. And I didn't hear his corner scream that I grabbed the cage until after I won. These things I realized after, and somehow it was controversial that I didn't grab the cage.

And I hate that that's the main storyline from this, because I straight up beat his ass for the whole fight. And this is the narrative. Drives me nuts. I don't think I revolutionize the game, man. It's really, really straightforward. You can't grab the cage. You can't.

But you can put your hand like this and post off the cage. If I'm the only one doing that, then everybody else is really, really dumb. It was nice to see you vindicated though. Like you didn't do anything wrong. And people immediately thought because of how the broadcast was, was portraying it, that you grabbed the fence. And then once we saw the replay, there was no fence grab. Like, did that even affect you?

Like does the vindication even matter at this point? Since you didn't do anything wrong to begin with? Like I said, it's annoying. But I won and I won fair and square. And I had a great performance. One of the best ones in my life, probably against a guy with a pretty big name. So no, it doesn't matter. All of those dumb opinions don't matter.

Just like when you lose the same people that are just, you know, talking shit, they don't matter either. It's whatever. You win, you lose. People are going to find something to talk shit about. Is it annoying that the broadcast was so adamant that I grabbed the fence? And they kind of created that narrative. People are impressionable. And when they hear the people who talk on TV say something, they believe them.

So is it annoying? Yeah, I guess. But, I mean, my win bonus is going to be in my account. in a few hours. There you go. So it doesn't really sting at all that there was any controversy. I mean, it's annoying. But in the end, again, you got your second half of your paycheck.

You went home with a win. That's all that matters at this point. Nothing else. That's all that matters, yes. So now what do we do? Because you finished the Latifi fight. You wanted to get right back in there. You got right back in there.

You got to finish. It was definitely one of your better performances of your career. And you've had some damn good ones. What do we do now? Do you want to smell the rose a little bit? Or are you hoping that, like, that phone rings as soon as possible. You can get right back in there. Well, I have a couple weeks now in quarantine.

So I will have basically spent six weeks now without a training camp because I will have went to fight Latifie, had that week of, you know, fight week where you train lightly, get a sweat on, blah, blah, blah, two weeks of quarantine after, another fight week that I trained a little harder at once I was at the PI because I hadn't been able to train before. so blow your lungs out a little more, but still, it's not that hard training. And now I got two more weeks of quarantine. So that's six weeks of not training, really. So I got to get back to training now, and, like, I mean, in two weeks, like, when I can.

And then I got to train for a bit before I fight again, because at a certain point, it just becomes foolish. So I'm going to get back to training. I am going to enjoy a little bit of my summer, you know. I'll look to fight in the fall, I think. How does Tanner Bozer enjoy a summer when he doesn't have a fight on the books? Like what are some of the things you're going to do with the nicer weather? I like to go, I like to go to the mountains once or twice to Canmore area. I love it there in Alberta.

Like I'm from Alberta, but Canmore is about a five-hour drive from Edmonton. And I love it there. I like to go home a bunch to Bonneville, see my family and some of my friends. Yeah, probably probably. Probably go to the mountains with my girlfriend and probably go back to Bonneville and see my family, go fishing a little bit. Nothing too crazy, but just a little bit where I don't have a flight impending so I can have a few beers and chill out a little bit. Not for long, just like a week or two and then get back to full training. I'll still be trading those weeks, but have like the weekends off kind of thing.

Were you bummed? There wasn't a monster can up on the desk when you're doing your post-white scrum? I'm like, what was that all about? I don't know. It's just water in a monster bottle of the table. I don't know what the point of that is. I don't know what they're promoting. Water.

Water. Water. I thought it was hilarious. You're like, what is this? This is unbelievable. Last thing for me, before we came on here, there were some big news that that happened in the UFC's heavyweight division. We found out that Cyril Gun, a prior opponent of yours, is going to fight Derek Lewis for the interim heavyweight title on August 7th. Were you aware of this news? And if so, how do you react to this surprising revelation?

I just found out about it, actually, right before I got on the call with you here. Yeah, that's a wicked fight. That's awesome. Good fight to make, honestly. Are you surprised that they're doing the interim thing now, since after Francis won the title three months ago? I don't know why there's an interim. I don't know what the circumstances are. is like why does frances hurt or does he want i don't know what's going on i mean i assume there's a reason but either way i like gone versus lewis i think that's a great fight i don't really care to get into the uh the politics of the fight game that don't directly concern myself that no that makes a lot of sense how do you like i mean i know the fight just got it made made

sort of official like an hour ago so not a lot of time to like dive through tape and and take the gander at it, but just kind of looking at it, seeing the names on paper, how do you see that one going down? Like, is there a, are you leaning one way or the other? Well, I'd lean towards Dawn, but I mean, I'm biased. I fought him and he beat me and he beat me like convincingly and fair and square. I think the guy's the real deal. But Lewis can one and done anybody. That's why it's such an exciting fight and it's going to be five rounds. So if Gone doesn't capitalize on something and put Lewis away, that's just a little more time. a little more time for Lewis to find him.

So that's a great fight. And I'll definitely be looking forward to watching that one. There you go. And last thing from me, what sort of sticks out for your next move? Like, I know you want to enjoy your summer and come back in the fall, but is there any sort of name that sticks out to you that you want to get in? Not like a trash talky kind of way, but just this would be a fun fight. This gets me a step closer towards my goals.

Yep, Big Ben. That's the fight I, that's the fight I picked for you too. I like it. Why, Ben? Just because it makes sense? Or is there like a stylistic, you know, sort of perspective to it that sticks out to you? No, it's just we're in the same boat because I asked for Jared Vandera and I got a laugh in response just like he did. So I figured me and Big Ben are in the exact same situation here. I don't know what's up.

But hey, we're in the same boat. We'll fight over who's the captain. Good win for Tanner Bozer on Saturday. It's it kind of sucks. It's always tough being in a spot like that where you go out there. You have a great performance. That first round, he looks sensational. Goes out, stops OSP in the second.

It's overshadowed with controversy. I don't think it should be overturned. Of course, we reported first on Saturday that Ovin St. Peru and his team are appealing the TKLoss to Tanner Bozer. And again, it has nothing to do with anything Tanner did. It had nothing to do with the fence grab or lack thereof, as we saw in the replay. It had to do with the referee, Jason Herzog, coming over, looking to make. make contact with OSP. And I will say, just kind of looking at it, and I reacted to this on Saturday, and people

gave me a whole bunch of crap about it. I was like, Jason Herzog, eh, didn't really do a good job. And people were like, oh, how dare you accuse Tanner Bozer of cheating? I didn't accuse Tanner Bozor of cheating or grabbing the fence at all. I thought Jason Herzog went in, made a move, a judgment call, if you will, and then he changed his mind. And in this sport, where things move so fast, you can't do that. Like, if you're going to go in there and call a pause to the action, you have to go through with it, follow through with the pause.

You can't just say, okay, pause. No, no, no, no, no. You know what, never mind. Not saying that's exactly what happened here, but that is the gripe OSP has. And if you watch the fight, I don't really blame him for filing this appeal. I don't. I don't think it's going to get overturned, but it's worth a shot. I think he's got a little bit of a gripe.

and I think Jason Herzog made a mistake. There you go. I think he made a mistake. It happens. He's human. I'm not here to crucify him. I'm not. But it deserves to be mentioned as part of the story.

But again, nothing to do with Tanner. No fence grab. Dude gets up. Gets the finish. Got a great win. And now he's on to possibly Big Ben Rothwell or somebody else. As we move ahead to another big winner from this past Saturday. First UFC submission win for Julia Avila.

Let's hear from her right now. Oh, what the heck. All right, let us welcome back. One of our favorite guests of the show. She got back in the wind calm on Saturday with a third round submission win over Julia Stolierranco at UFC Vegas 30. Let us say hello once again to, I guess we should call her submission specialist, Julia Avila. Is that where we're going with? Julia, how are you?

Competitive snuggler. That's right. And now you get the cauliflower ear to match that moniker. Yeah, I look at that. How long did that take to it? acquire. Ten years. Ten years I've been doing this and I finally got my cauliflower here and I'm very excited about it. That's a big moment for you as well as a big moment for you on Saturday. Congratulations on the Victory. First submission win of your career. How about that?

That's your second? My first one was at Arm Bar. Oh, when was that? It was against, it was on an HDMMA. It was like a minute something. But yeah. Okay. All right, first UFC submission. First UFC submission. Okay, there we go. But how does it feel being back home, not just with the win and a finish? But you got to answer some questions at the same time by forcing a little tap tap. Yeah.

You know, a lot of people don't know this, but I train more on the ground than I do stand up. So, like, it's, you know, that's my bread and butter. That's what I feel I should be known for. But I hit pretty hard. I knew she was going to be durable. So I knew I wasn't going to knock her out. So I guess I had a suburb. I mean, as expected, it was as advertised.

The fight was very exciting. Julia, like you said, is such a gamer. You busted her up early, as you know. She has bled many times in her career. Was part of one of the craziest fights we've seen in the last 18 months or so for Invicta. How much fun did you just have in there with somebody like that? Oh, gosh. I knew I knew I was going to have so much fun.

And actually, so one of my coaches told me this, that in between rounds, I think the first and second round, the doctor asked her, you know, are you okay? And she said, I'm having the best day of my life. Just what, right? And he came up to me and he's like, you, you bitches are crazy. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, I know, I know. And it's absolutely awesome. She was so game and it was such a fun fight. The judges seem to be all over the place with the scoring. I don't know if you knew this, but one had it two o for you heading into the third. One had it 1919 heading into the third. And one had it 2018 for her, which is kind of wild to think about. But how did you and your team

see it heading into the third round? Like what was the conversation like after round two? So between the second and the third round, my coach, he told me I lost the second round. And he wanted me to find the finish. I said, okay, coach. Okay. But he told me later that, that after that, he only said that because he wanted me to find the finish. He wanted me to feel like I was the underdog, right? But we all thought that I was winning the fight. The only thing I could think of is the judges maybe mistook which Julia was which Julia. I hope that never happens.

Like if I ever fight Juliana Peña, like we got to make sure that they get the right Jays. That's crazy. And then, you know, obviously the advice worked. You come on in the third, you get that finish in the final minute of the fight, and the emotions just flowed right out of you. You could see this tremendous weight lifted off of your shoulders. Like, how would you describe what you were feeling in that moment after she tapped? Just overwhelming relief and happiness.

It was everything. I mean, I'm a very emotional person anyways. I wear my heart on my sleeve. Um, it's just, uh, it was worth it. It made everything worth it. And I felt like I made everyone proud. And then you give DC a big old hug and then you apologize after for hugging him because of the blood and such. Very cool moment.

There's just there's just not a lot of fighters that are like you, Julia. Between that and then hugging Stolia Rank out the face off, her reaction to that was absolutely priceless, by the way. You really are a raging panda. Like you live that moniker to the fullest. Do you not? I mean, that's why they gave me the nickname. Like, I may be nice and cuddly, but I'm still a fucking bear.

So you were telling D.C. after, because he asked you sort of about the emotions that you were experiencing. And you had gone through a lot, you know, throughout this year between, you know, losing the fight with Julia originally because of the weight cut and everything that happened with that. And then we found out that you got kicked out of your gym. you mentioned that as well. Like, are, like, what happened there? They just, they just kicked you out. Like, you just went to the gym being like, hey, let's go train. And they, they unceremoniously asked you to exit.

Like, what happened there? Are you, are you okay telling that story? There was a lot of ceremony to it. Um, it was actually, uh, less than 24 hours after my fight got canceled. Uh, we flew back and we were training because one of my, my coaches had to fight the next weekend. So we had to get him ready, um, getting into cut week. So a couple rounds in, coach comes up and yells in front of me and God and everyone and kicks me out.

It was just a misunderstanding. He believes something that isn't true. And there was a lot of people that saw what I think is true and they left with me. And so, yeah, I opened up a gym for my people. And it was actually a group of us. It wasn't just me. It's not just me. It's a lot of us.

So we all went through huge changes. It wasn't just me. I know a lot of people watching, a lot of our students that were watching felt the same relief and emotion that I did as soon as I got that win. Was there, I mean, was it a long time coming or did it like kind of take you by surprise? It was from an injury that wasn't my fault. You know, we do a combat sport, and I don't mean to hurt people. And I didn't do anything wrong. And so, yeah, it was just misunderstanding and stories made up in their own heads.

Yeah, the sport is great, and it can be a little rough at times, too, but you mentioned it as painful as that must have been for you. You got to bust down some new doors, Julia. Outsiders Combat Club. This is such a cool name, by the way. It resonates perfectly. This is a very big deal. And can I just add that this came together very, very quickly?

I mean, I know you had a group people that kind of followed you out the door and you guys just became this outsider clan. Like, how did this happen and how did this happen so quickly? So from two weeks from when we decided on the name and the location and the people, it took two weeks to open a gym. Why? Because my husband and I actually had everything. We've always wanted to open up a gym and, oh, he's here, my husband.

And so we had everything in our garage, in our home. Actually, our home is very empty now. It's like, hello, hello. But here, let me, do you see that? Oh, look at that. Everything back there was in our home. That was my husband. That's my life. That's everything that I wanted, everything that I've always wanted. I've always wanted to be a gym owner.

And only because I want to be a positive influence on people's lives, I want to change lives. I want to be remembered for the good that I did. How many people are actively students there right now? Do you have like a whole crew? Because it looks like in the pictures, it's like, wow, this is pretty amazing. I think we have about 80 students. Wow. Yeah, adults and children. So, yeah, we quickly outgrew this space. And I think we're going to stay here for a little bit longer. But I can't wait to just develop it more and have more offerings and more classes and devote more of my time here and raise my kid here.

One day, you know, I'm going to have a kid and I'm going to be able to coach my kid on these mats, which is just surreal to me. A little panda. Yeah, my little baby bear. So, I mean, as pretty as unfortunate as that whole situation with the old gym was, it was kind of the push you needed to really ramp this up, right? Yeah, yeah. You know, I would have still been there if I wasn't kicked out. There was a lot of back and forth that happened behind the scenes. And I'm thick-skinned.

I can take that. I didn't want anyone else to take that kind of mental abuse. So I was going to stay. I would have stayed, but I didn't have a choice. I was forced to leave. So now you get this new gym, your first UFC submission win. And I saw you were already back lifting at 5 a.m. this morning, too. You're fully ready with rash guards and all training again today.

You are such a machine. Like, where does this all come from? Like, you just had a war 48 hours ago. Yeah, well, you know, like I said, I want to be a positive influence and no one ever like wants to be the couch potato. No one ever looks at someone that's just like laying there and say, oh, I want to be that person. No, I did someone like you want to be motivated. You want to move. You want to like live your life to its full extent.

And I want to, I want people to look at me and say, I did this because you said I could. Did you really smell the roses yesterday when you got home? I mean, as I ran by them. How long did you run? Like, how many roses did you actually run by yesterday? Gosh, okay. So I didn't run. That's a lie.

I walked. My husband, he forced me to walk, but it was still lovely and wonderful. Well, there you go. So outside of being a gym owner, where do we go from here, Julia? I mean, there's certainly some interesting options out there. You're a top 15 fighter at 135 pounds. I assume that you might bump up a spot or two, but what sort of sticks out to you moving forward after that big win?

Well, I'm going to work on my scheduling and hopefully get some more cross-training out at Glory MMA with James Prowse and work with them a little bit more and just develop my skill set here. Maybe one day I'll be a black belt. I don't know. I know combat base. I'm working with them with Chris and Melissa Howder. They're amazing, amazing people. and so supportive. Yeah, just taking it one day at a time right now.

I was going to ask you about Krause because I remember when you kind of put the story out there of what happened with the gym, like I know Kraus sort of put it out there. Like, come train with us, like come see us. Like, did you see that? Like, and how quickly did it take from you seeing that to get out there? I thought it was a joke at first.

I, like, I'm no one, right? I'm just, I'm a girl that calls herself the raging panda. like who the heck is this girl? And for someone to see me and see my potential, like, that was humbling. And so I went. I messaged him and I went up there and I met him and I was awestruck. And I was like, okay, I got to put my best foot forward. So I wore a rash guard set that looked like a ghee.

So it was my no-ggy glee, and I look absolutely stupid. I was like, how is this guy going to take me seriously? But no, it was absolutely awesome. that was humbling. That was fun. And I just, I can't wait to develop that friendship and that relationship and just, you know, prove to the world what I can be. He sort of developed this moniker in his own right of being sort of a cheat code as a coach. Like he just sees things like five moves in advance. It's pretty fascinating. What did you take away from getting to work with James and that that hungry team?

over there. Exactly what you said. They're hungry. They're a pack of wolves. They're so smart and just good, good people. They're exactly what I want to develop out here at outsiders. And I think we're on the right path. There you go.

Well, very happy for you, Julia. That was an excellent win. You have been through a lot. And like I've said before, it's nice to see one of the good people in our sport have a great moment like that on a national stage like that and a global stage. So congratulations to you. Looking forward to seeing what's next for you. Any parting words for the peeps before we say goodbye? Just thank you so much, Panda Nation.

Thank you so much for believing in me and being on my side through thick and thin. And I hope that I have earned your hearts. And you guys stay on this journey. with me. So I appreciate you. Please like, follow, subscribe on all social media platforms at Raging Panda MMA. I'm very active on Instagram. I'm a visual person, so it works for me. But yeah, hit me up. Thank you. No doubt about it. One of my favorite people in the sport, Julia Avila, there's just no other like her. So congratulations to her for the big win, happy for her, her husband, her whole team,

and the new gym. Just big weight lifted off her shoulders. A lot was going on in her life. And went to Vegas. I guess a tough opponent and got it done. But we're getting ready to wrap up the show. Big thank you, as always, to all of you watching and listening to the program. Big thank you to the guests.

Big thank you to Casey Liden on the production each and every week. Big thank you to Jose Young's and Alex Savas on the graphics and the social media stuff. And guess what? We're going to do it again next week. But until then, have a heck of a week, everybody. Enjoy a weekend. In the United States, you have a long weekend with the 4th of July Independence Day weekend. And for those not in the United States, enjoy a weekend to hang out and do something besides watch fights.

It's nice to have these kinds of weekends once in a while. But again, have a heck of a week. Everybody will leave me with my chat with the one Adam White champion, Angela Lee. All right, let us say hello to the one Adamweight champion, Angela Lee, who has had a lot going on in her life since we last saw her regain her title in October of 2,000. She has become a mom. And now, as you can see in the background, she is on the road back to competition. Angela, great to see you.

How are you? I'm doing great. Thank you so much for having me. Absolutely. So first things first, how is parenthood? How have you enjoyed being a mom? I'm a veteran of eight years at this point. How have you been enjoying the first few months?

It's amazing. Honestly, just filled with so much happiness. more than I could imagine. Each day is something new. My daughter, she's just started to babble, finding her voice. So she's making all these cute sounds and noises. And yeah, I just, I love it so much. Parenthood, as you can attest to, it changes you in a lot of ways, right?

Like, I know fighters talk about it a lot. Like, it's extra motivation to win and compete. But it's a lot more than that. Like, it changes a lot of things. Like, have you noticed a big change in yourself in general? a more, I guess, tunnel vision approach to everything in your life? Definitely. Now, you know, me and my husband, our whole world revolves around Ava.

And everything we do is all for her now. So I just started to get back into training and it is not easy. It's been pretty rough. My body is not the same as how I remember it. And so I'm just trying to, you know, take things slow. one day at a time. But yeah, some days are harder than others to get myself on the mat. But I just look at my daughter and I remember that I'm doing it for her.

Well said. Yeah, it was about a week or so ago. I think you posted that it was your first day back at the gym. You got to train with your dad and your sister Victoria, your brother, Adrian. And it's like anything you get back into after a bit of time away, yeah, there's like some familiarity. Sure, but you got to build back to where you were. So like how would you describe the first training session back? Like when it was over, what were you feeling like?

Honestly, overall, I was so happy to be back. You know, the gym, it's like my, is my first home, really. So everything feels really natural. It's just my body. It's like I was so sore and I was just not used to, you know, training. I mean, it's been almost. a year. So it's rough. But luckily, I have a great support system over here. And my dad, who's my coach, he's just, he's like, hey, don't put any pressure on yourself. Just take it easy. And we're going to

easy back into this. The last thing I want to do is, you know, push myself too hard and get injured. And then not only will that be bad for myself, but I need to take care of my daughter. So, yeah. What was the hardest part of it all? Oh, my goodness. You know what? Initially just getting past the warm-ups because it was the first time that I really exercise worked out in a while,

and I felt like throwing up after the warm-ups, but I stuck with it. And two hours of training later, yeah, I had an awesome time. It just felt so great to be back, you know, with everyone in this environment. What have you made of the progression of your brother and sister since the last time you trained with them? Oh, my goodness. It's crazy. I really, really miss training with them just because, you know, before I got pregnant, we were training with each other every day. But now, you know, stepping back on the mats with them, I can really see how much growth they've had. in terms of technique, but also size-wise, like my sister is taller than me.

And my youngest brother, Adrian, he's just huge. I don't know what happened. Time flies, right? It does. It really does. Scary. So in your world, there's an Adamweight Grand Prix that has been booked and re-booked several times now. It doesn't have an official date, but the winner of that tournament is expected to face you for the title. They're hoping maybe it happened sometime this summer.

But I guess how are you viewing this concept as the champion getting ready to return after nearly two years away? Do you feel like this is the right way to get to your next fight? I do. You know, in the Adam Lake Division, it definitely has the most women for the organization. It's the busiest. And, yeah, there's some, you know, really good contenders that, they've brought into the Adam and Grand Prix. I mean, the Adam and Grand Prix is super exciting in itself,

just because it's the first, you know, all-female tournament that one's going to put on. And, yeah, I'm really looking forward to it. I think it's going to be super fun to see how it goes down. And I'll be tuning in for sure. Meanwhile, for me, it just gives me so much added motivation to get back to training and get back to fight shape as soon as possible, just because I know that these girls, are gunning for me, so I got to be ready. What is your ideal time frame looking like? Let's

just say this thing happens in the next month or two. And again, we don't really know what when exactly it is going to happen. Are you hoping to get back in there before the end of the year? Are you hoping maybe like the beginning of next year? What's your calendar sort of looking like? What do you have circled in terms of when you'd like to get back in there? For me, you know, I'm really focusing on getting back. And ideally, I would like to. like to have myself, you know, in fight shape by the end of the year. That being said, I'm not sure how things play out. You know, the world is still kind of not back to normal with, you know, the COVID and

things like that. So it makes things a little bit more difficult. I know that the Adam and Grand Prix was supposed to happen earlier, got pushed back. So, you know, we'll see. But all I have to worry about is getting my back in shape. And my plan is hopefully by the end of the year to be fight ready. Like you said, everyone in this tournament is going to be gunning for you at some point. Whoever comes out of this is going to be fighting you for the title.

Who out of this field do you have your eyes on specifically? Like who sticks out to you? Who is your favorite, if you will, to come out of this thing and be your next opponent? Have you thought about that at all? I think that, you know, everyone who has a spot in this Grand Prix is, you know, is not to be taken lightly. The matchups are interesting, so I'm really excited to see how it plays out. I mean, it's a fight, anything can happen,

and also even more so in a tournament setting like this, you know, I don't want to call out who I think is going to win the tournament because you never know, especially with, you know, training conditions now. You don't know who has access to what and how prepared someone may be. So, you know, anything can happen. I'm just excited that I get to see these girls face off against each other. And yeah, it's going to be one half of a tournament. As you discussed earlier, your family fully entrenched in this game.

Christian, of course, the lightweight champion. He's a new parent as well. Just coming off this phenomenal performance back in April, first round finish. It was on TNT in the U.S., which is a very big deal for one. What did you think of his performance and what he's been doing overall in the last two and a half three years? Christian is just getting better and better. And the scary thing for everyone in his division is that he's just getting started. I mean, he just celebrated his 23rd birthday yesterday.

So, you know, literally he has so much more to go. And, you know, the way he trains in the gym every single day is. It's just so motivating and inspiring for me. And yeah, I just, I think that now that he has a daughter, now that he's a dad, he has just so much more motivation. So he's going to be even scarier in the cage, if that's possible. What's the age difference between your two daughters? So my daughter, Ava, she was born April 16th,

and then Christian's daughter, Leah, was born May 1st. They're 15 days apart. All right. All right. That's a good birthday for yours. My son was born April 17th, so you got me, got me by a day. So how about that? And then we talked about Victoria, who just won her pro debut back in February. She looked phenomenal as well. Submission went in the second round. It's one thing to watch Christian do her, his thing, but to see Victoria go out, your little sister go out there and put on a performance like that as big sis. What was that like for you? Oh my gosh, it was just so surreal. You know, I was really bummed out that I couldn't be there for her debut because, you know, I really just saw myself being there Caged Side and that's what I really wanted to. But I was in my third trimester, so I couldn't travel. And also with the COVID situation, she was not allowed any more people to go with her for the fight. But I was just up and screaming at my phone and, you know, supporting her from here in Hawaii and so proud of her, you know, to think that she put on a performance like that at just 16 years old is it's very, very, you know, there's so many more things to think about.

And not only do you have to be prepared for just based on another professional, a mate fighter, but all the nerves that she had to deal with and she overcame. So very proud of her. Could Adrian be the best of the bunch? Is this possible? This just seems like the growth from like one, from the oldest to the youngest, it just seems, I don't know, it's just wild. I mean, you get two world champions in the family and now you're watching, you know, Victoria have the success she's having. Is it possible that Adrian could be the best of the bunch when his prime comes?

I don't want to give anything away. I mean, Adrian, he's still 15 years old. But the guy is a beast. He is. And it's very nice to see how he's progressing. So who knows? Who knows? All right.

Fair enough. Keep that, you know, keep that secret. Mystery. Mystery is a good thing. What was your experience like? I know that the Apprentice One Championship Edition is about to hit the U.S. pretty soon, if memory serves it correctly. I know you were a part of that.

What was that like for you? that experience like for you being a part of a show like that? That was super fun. It was a really awesome experience. I hope that I definitely get more opportunities like that in the future. It's different than fighting. You got other things to worry about, like saying your lines correctly. And, you know, it's long days with filming too.

But definitely very enjoyable and super cool for me to see, you know, behind the scenes of how this all works. Well, that's good to hear. I'm glad you got those experiences, and I'm glad you get to experience being a mom. You have a big smile on your face, so you can tell it's all good. As you get ready to make that journey back into the cage, hopefully sometime at the end of the year, maybe next year we'll see how that all goes. Of course, we've got the Adam White Grand Prix to take place, and we'll see who comes out of that.

But, Angela, glad to see this background behind you with a cage behind you, getting back at it, and we wish you all the best in this journey back to the cage, and I appreciate the time very much. Thank you so much. Hope to be speaking with you guys soon. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.