MMA Fighting - What the Heck: Episode 67 | Josh Barnett, Kris Moutinho & Eugene Aubry

Episode Date: July 13, 2021

This week on What the Heck, MMA Fighting's Mike Heck speaks with Kris Moutinho (7:16) to recap his Fight of the Night bonus earning performance against Sean O'Malley at UFC 264 on 11 days notice. Philadelphia-based pro MMA fighter Eugene Aubry (31:42) shares his story about walking home from work at his gym and being shot in the neck, paralyzing him and what life has been like since. Finally, Josh Barnett (56:54) reacts to Fedor Emelianenko's scheduled return to the Bellator cage on Oct. 23, talks being the guy to get that opportunity to face him, and Jake Hager staking his claim for the bout. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the downloaded two, ghosts in the machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudullian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible Original Blockbuster. The Downloaded, it's a thought-provoking sci-by journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love?

The Downloaded 2. Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. This is What the Heck with Mike Heck on MMEFighting.com. Now, here is your host, Mike Heck. What the heck? Well, hello there, everybody, and welcome to a brand new edition of What the Heck here on MMAfighting.com. I am Mike Keck. Thanks for having us on wherever you have us on, whether you're watching on YouTube or listening wherever you find your favorite podcasts.

Appreciate that. Hope you were all well rested after a crazy weekend in MMA. UFC 264 is officially in the books. It was a crazy card. The main event ended in a... way nobody was hoping for with Conner McGregor breaking his tibia in the final seconds of the first round of the trilogy fight, but it was all Dustin Pori up to that point. So while it ended without full closure and it's unfortunate that that happened for Dustin and his team, it's just one of those

things where in MMA, maybe something nuts could have happened, but it just seems like Pore was on his way to another big performance. And it is what it is. The aftermath of the has been kind of ugly with some of the things that were said, mostly from McGregor's side. Porier is telling everybody he hopes that the UFC releases some of the behind-the-scenes footage that wasn't shown on embedded or after the fight itself because some of the things that have been said, at least on social media, I know there's one post that we actually wrote about on our website that said that

Dustin Porier and his wife, Jolie, were threatened to be murdered in the their sleep. And, you know, I've watched that video a lot of times because I was writing about it. And I didn't hear any of those words. He did say, in your sleep, in your sleep, in your sleep, in your sleep. But, you know, we don't really know the context of that. But either way, it's over the line. The stuff with Porre's wife, definitely way too much, in my opinion. It got kind of ugly. And I've seen a lot of people out there as it relates to this rivalry and this feud that they don't want to see a fourth fight between Poria McGregor, some folks even saying, because I said afterwards, I think the UFC is going to go to this well right away, even before Dana White said it.

And some people think I'm crazy to think that they would try to go back to booking this fight. But listen, especially if you've been watching this sport for several years, there is zero doubt the UFC will try to put this fight together no matter what is happening. Dustin Porier is about to fight Charles Olivera for the lightweight titles. This fight's not happening anytime soon because Connor just broke his tibia. He underwent surgery. He's going to be out for a while. Dustin's going to go on and fight for the title. But if Dustin Porre eats Charles Olivera and wins the title, maybe he has another defense.

Let's just say Connor's ready to come back October, November of next year. You don't think Dana White and the UFC are going to try to book that fourth fight for the title, even though Conner's lost three of four in his last two fights? Of course they're going to try to book it. Dana White does not believe in meritocracy. He doesn't believe in the word deserves and all of that for the most part, especially if it is outweighed by a significant amount of money, which this fight, even though we've seen it three times and we've seen it twice this year already,

a fourth fight would make a lot of money. So, yeah, that's that. They would absolutely try to make it, whether it's for a title, whether it's not for a title. They will try to make it again the second Connor is ready to come back. And I know Dustin said like Connor's got to win a fight. and all that stuff. And he, I don't know. They're going to throw a lot of money at him to fight Connor a fourth time.

And I have a hard time believing he'll say no to that. But that's that. AK and I talked a lot about UFC 264 on our matchmaking podcast onto the next one. You can find that wherever you find your favorite podcast, Apple Podcast, Stitcher, Spotify, etc. Plus you can check out our post-fight show on our YouTube page, Jose Youngs, brought in legendary boxing analyst Teddy Atlas to talk 264. we're going to talk a little bit more about that event right here in a matter of moment. So let's run down the lineup.

First off, a little programming note, Luke Rockhold was supposed to join us this week. He was a little under the weather earlier today. Monday is to record this. So the plan is to chat with him later on on Tuesday as you see this. So today, actually, when you're seeing this for the first time. So stay tuned for that, hoping we get the former middleweight champion on the program. We've been trying for a couple days. We've just missed each other.

hopefully we can get it done on Tuesday. But wrap us up this week. Former UFC heavyweight champion, current Bellator Heavyweight, the man behind Bloodsport Professional Wrestling. Josh Barnett is going to join us. He will give his thoughts on the Fedor, Million Anko sweepstakes. Of course, Fader coming back on October 23rd

for a fight in Russia for Bellator. He wants that fight badly. And he also gives its thoughts on Jake Hager's interview on this show last week and why he wholeheartedly agrees that this shouldn't have and he wholeheartedly disagrees with anybody who believes that Jake Hager should get this fight with Fador. Great stuff with Josh Barnett. I'm excited for you guys to hear that later on. Before that,

we're going to bring on a young man by the name of Eugene Aubrey, and he's 25 years of age. He's a three-and-one professional fighter out of Philadelphia. I've actually seen him compete live before for CES. It was January of 2019. and I remember that just has nothing to do with them, really, but my wife and I and our family were trying to move down to Cape Cod, and so for like six months, I was driving back and forth

between Cape Cod and the Berkshires and I would try to drive back up here on the weekends to see my family, obviously. But of course, January of Massachusetts means a lot of snow, so going home and seeing them was not possible because they were getting a big snowstorm

in the Berkshire. So I reached out to to the fine folks at CES, like hours before their event was going to start. And they credentialed me. It went there and covered it. And Eugene Aubrey, I believe, was in the first fight of the night. He got the win. The fight was insane.

And he wasn't happy with this performance. But in October of last year, this young man's life changed one night near his home in Philadelphia. He was heading home from work at a gym. He wanted to stop at his favorite restaurant. It was closed. And when he went to walk back home after getting off the train, he was attacked. and he was shot in the neck, which has left him paralyzed.

And this story is something else. And you'll hear it all what the past several months have been like for the suitcase kid in around 20 minutes or so. But man, just going back and thinking about the conversation, it's just wild. But you'll hear that momentarily. But first, let us welcome in one of the big stars of UFC 264 this past Saturday. And he's a guy who didn't even get a win. But he did get a bonus. in his short notice, UFC debut against Sugar, Sean O'Malley, took the fight in 11 days notice.

Let us welcome to the show, Chris Motino. All right, we move ahead to our next guest. And I think a lot of people know this man, a lot more than they did, maybe heading into Saturday night at UFC 264, a man that Daniel Cormier deemed the most savage SOB he's ever met one half of the fight of the night against Sean O'Malley on 11 days notice. He didn't get his hand raised in victory, but he gained a lot of new fans, no doubt about that. Mattino, kind enough to join us on the show. Chris, how are you, man? Good. How are you, bro? Thanks for having me. Absolutely. First off, how are you feeling on this Monday as you record? It was a crazy fight.

You showed such incredible toughness. How are you feeling physically less than 48 hours later? I feel great, man. I feel just about what I feel like every other fight, man. I'm a little sore, a little full from eating too much shit. But I feel great, man. I feel great. I'm just ready for the next one. And just, you know, the overall notoriety you received since Saturday night. Your social media has exploded. A lot of people, like I said earlier, and know who you are now. Has it been a little overwhelming since Saturday night? Extremely overwhelming, man.

Everybody that knows me knows that I'm a shy dude. I don't like to be looked at. I don't like to be talked to too much. But it's cool, man. It's cool. This is what we sign up for, right? We're all trying to make it big and do this for the rest of our lives. and if this is what it is, man, I'll get used to it.

Has anyone, like, reached out to you at all, like any celebrities, like fellow fighters that kind of had you losing your mind a little bit? Literally, actually, yeah, just like literally right before I get on here, bro, I got a DM from Kevin Ross, you know, Kevin Ross, the sole assassin, bro, the kickboxing star. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That was crazy, bro. I'm a huge fan of him, man.

He's been around forever. So that was cool. I just saw that like five minutes ago. But yeah, man, it's just crazy, man. It's crazy to think I'm in this world where two days ago, I had 11,100 followers. And now I'm 70,000 plus. So it's just crazy. It's just crazy.

This world is a funny world. It definitely is. So let's go back to Friday if we could because, and I'm not here to pat myself on the back or anything, Chris. but I went on our preview show Friday night. I went on other shows on our pre-fight show before the card, and I said that you are not going to be intimidated by this moment. You would not be intimidated by Sean O'Malley,

and you were going to be in his face until the fight on Saturday was over. So you take the stage Friday for your first ceremonial way in on Saturday. Sean got in your face. You sort of leaned into him. You didn't flinch at all. You didn't even blink, I don't think. What was that moment like for you? Like, what was that first UFC faceoff like for you?

It was like normal. bro, this is what I was born to do. Like I tell everybody this. Like, I've been about this for a very long time. Like, the fight part is what I love. The fight part is what I do. I am a fighter. I can come in there.

I can take a beating like everybody saw and not care. This is what I do. This is what I love to do. And the only part that I don't like is all the other stuff that we have to do along with it. All the media, all the talking. And that's the stuff I'll get used to. And that's the stuff I think I do pretty well as of right now. And I'm just, I just love this part, man.

I love to get in people's faces. I love to talk crap if I have to, man. And this was the greatest experience in my life. So Friday and Saturday for sure. I'm sure you just dug all of it. Did you enjoy, I mean, you know, you're sort of an inside guy, but did you enjoy like the whole ambiance of the fight? just being on a car with Dustin and Connor, the atmosphere.

I know there's media and you had to do the media days and stuff, but do you at least enjoy yourself? Yeah, I enjoyed myself as much as I could. Like, I was telling people, like, it was kind of hard to really, like, embrace the whole thing because it was so much, so fast. It was almost, it was almost too much too quick for me to just truly be, like, within the moment. But it was still, it was still great, man.

I got to go out there. I put on a great foot, great fight for everybody to enjoy and win, loser draw. I said, I told everybody what I was going to do, and I did it. You know what I mean? Again, I'm always going to be a sore loser, man. I never like to lose and never like to look at it like that. But, man, I'm just happy that I got to go out there and I put a good account for myself,

for my team, the people that I really care about and my small circle that got me to this point. I saw Mitch Raposo in your corner and I know he's a guy that's up and coming he's on the ultimate fighter of the season what was that experience like for him just seeing you kind of in that moment and I know I know he's knocking on that door to get into the UFC but to see you get there

and he got to be in your corner what was that like for him? I'm sure it was just a great experience and all man there was so much things that like that you wouldn't even know of you weren't at one of these you know what I mean like just what the way the UFC works

simple thing. So when he gets his shot next, man, whenever he's going to get his shot, or if he gets a shot, like the kid is going to do, you already be a pro with this. He's not even going to have to worry about it. So there's so much, so much, so many things that this experience helped out, man. And I see, I see, like, this is what I've been trying to tell everybody, man. Like, I've been training with dudes just as good as the guy I just fought last night or if not better for so long, man. I train with Mitch, train with. with yorg and all these guys that are in the uc randy costa all these guys that have already made it here man and i i just knew i belonged here and i i belonged in this environment and when i got here i

knew i was going to be able to handle that all the pressure and all the all the other things that came along with this so saturday night you make the first walk shan o'malley goes on twitter right before the fights that he's dedicating the knockout to the phoenix sons who're getting ready to to play for an NBA title. And you did what I predicted you would do. You went right after him. You got in his face. He's landing the big shots.

You were kind of having a tough time getting to him early because of the length and the range. But you just kept coming forward, man. He dropped you at the end of the first round. You looked to be in some trouble before that horn sounded. How badly were you hurt in that moment? I wasn't that bad, man. It was a drop. He got me.

It was a flash horn. He dropped me. But it wasn't, I've been hit a lot harder. I've been dropped a lot worse. I mean, like, it was, he was a very talented, he's a very talented fighter, man. He was good timing, but it was a lot of it was my fault. You know what I mean? I wasn't setting up my strikes.

I wasn't fainting. I wasn't doing anything. I was kind of just bar brawling, you know what I mean? I turned this into a hockey fight, you know what I mean? I was just trying to swing, bro. And it was, it was what I felt in my head, man. I just wanted to go, man. I just wanted to hit him.

But this is a fight, man. I had to set up my strikes. I have to faint. I have to get into my range where I can land the strikes. As the fight was going, man, you could tell. One of us was tired. One of us wasn't, man. It wasn't the kid getting punched a lot.

So you guys tell me what you thought. What did you think of like the theatrics early on, the invisible dribbling of the basketball and all? Like, were you been noticing that as the fight was playing out? That was funny. It was funny, man. But I was right in his face telling him, telling, talking to him right back. You know what I mean?

Like he can do whatever he wants, man. He has a way about him that he only does that when he's in front of a camera. You understand? I'm the same person I am in front of the camera outside the camera. I'm the same person 100% of the time. He's not the same person. When he's not in front of the camera, he's as nice as nice as can be. He doesn't say a word.

When him in his corner in front of the camera, they talk all they can. You know what I mean? So we're just different. We look at things different. If I don't like you, you know I don't like you. And I bring the same energy 100% of the time. If I do like you, you're going to know I like you. And that's just the way I am.

I'm 100% who I am all the time. What were you saying to Sean? There were certain moments where you were just walking towards them and you were just talking to them. Like, what were you saying to him? I was just being just normal Boston stuff, man. We're from Massachusetts, man. This is what we do in the gym. This is what I do to my boys in the gym every day.

You know what I mean? call him the B word and just let him know who daddy is at that point. You know what I mean? I was taking a little bit, I was taking some shots and I was doing what I was doing,

but if that fight was to the death, he knows who would have won that fight. You know what I mean? This is what it is. I'm just here to do it, man. Hopefully one day we can run that one back. You know what I mean? I have things I have to work on.

I have things I have to improve on, man. A loss is never going to sit right with me, it was a great fight or not. You know what I mean? It was a loss to me, and there was a lot of things I can learn from this, and me and my team are going to work for the next few months

and just really, really, really, really prove on everything. And next time you see me, I'm going to be a different person. What happened with Tim Welch? He's, again, another dude. Like, when you see him outside the ring, he's a nice person, doesn't say a word to you.

When he's standing outside of a ring, talking a lot to you. He's talking a lot. He was talking more than Sean was talking. You know what I mean? So that's why that's when he got, he got the finger and he got a little, a little bit of extra. You get a little bit of extra from me. You know what I mean? What was he saying to you? He was telling me I was, I was getting knocked out, man. I wasn't ready. I'm like, dude, I've been doing this for a long time. I'm always ready. This is what I love. This is what I do, man. I can walk outside tomorrow. I'm going to be in shape. I'm being in shape to fight, man. Getting punch in the face doesn't hurt that bad, man.

He hit me, he hit me, what, 230 times? Most punches consecutively and most accurate, whatever it was, man, whatever the record was. Hey, I was still there, bro. And if they didn't stop that fight for no reason, it would have went the whole whole 15 minutes. So it's some craziness, man, but I'm just decided to learn from it and get better for the next one. Yeah, there's obviously a lot of talk about Herb Dean and when he decided to stop the fight, which we'll get into the actual closing sequence in a minute. But heading into the second round, you were standing there getting ready for Herb to get you guys going.

And I was a little worried he might stop the fight there, like before the second round. Were you worried about that at all? Not really, man. I took a lot of shots, man. But if you watched me, I was still coming forward. I was still pushing the pace. I was still throwing punches, man. Listen, I've seen fighters take beatings.

to the point. You can watch nobody stopped the fight when Calvin was taking a beating to Max Holloway. Nobody stopped. Rory McDonald until he stopped himself. Nobody stopped Rory McDonald when he was destroyed by Robbie Lawler and his face was gassed up. His nose was broken.

I took some shots, man. I got a nice light skin, man. It bruises. It bruises up. That's what we do. But I'm a fighter, man. I should be given the same same token as everybody else man go out of my sword if I want to unless I can't unless I'm not swinging bro you can watch that last sequence

I was still throwing punches I was still there I was trying to move out the way of some shots hey you get hit this is a fight if you don't want if you don't want to do it man don't do it it's not who I am man you're gonna have to kill me to get me out of there you don't do that you I'm coming bro I can finish this fight at any time I got power too I promise Yeah, I think like it was kind of a double-edged sword for me because there's like part of me that was like, I understand why people thought it should have been stocks, but at the same token, like, and I use the cater example as well, it's 27 seconds left in the fight. Like, let him go. Like just, just let it go. And I understand why people are, I mean, people have genuine concern. They'd be like, oh, you know, you'd be saying something, you'd be singing a different tune if, you know, he got knocked out in the last 10 seconds brutally. But you didn't. It's like, you got hit with 230. other punches and you were still walking forward. So I could see both sides, but to me, I felt like

you earned the right to get to the finish of that fight. Yeah, I think just because, especially because of how much time was left, and he knows how he gets to look at the clock. You know what I mean? He gets to look at the clock. He gets to see how much time is left. He knows what the deal is. He knows there's 27 seconds left. There's no reason to stop that fight. Listen, man, if he was going to stop, but he should have stopped when I got dropped. I could have stopped it when I got, when I was taking the rest of the 230 punches a round earlier. You know what I mean?

So it is what it is. But I can't, I'm not going to, if the fight went to the decision, I would have lost the decision. I understand that I lost the fight. That's not the question. It's just, it adds a little sour taste to the, added to the extra, extra bit of it. You know what I mean?

I still am going to be a little sour, but a loss. It just adds a little bit that I got finished. when I really shouldn't know. Did you feel like Sean was getting frustrated at all? Like just landing those shots and you were still coming? Like, did you feel any frustration on his end? I feel like he was getting a little scared towards the end. He was a little scared towards the end.

If that was a five-round fight, he would have been a little more. I think I was pushing him. I think he was tired. I think I was going at a pace that eventually he would have been worn down of. But I think it was, again, my fault. I wasn't adding any feints. I was standing there.

I wasn't moving my head out of the center line. I was just getting punched in the face. But I didn't make it as much of a competitive fight as it could have been. But hey, man, I can't go back in time. I can't change things. I understand what happened. I understand what I have to improve on. And the next few months is going to be just nothing but improvement.

Of course. I mean, you wanted to go back to Massachusetts where I'm actually at as well. on the western part of the state, but there's very few cases in MMA where moral victories stick in this crazy sport of ours. Like, did you head back to Massachusetts? I know you didn't go back with an actual victory under your belt, but do you have like a moral victory in your eyes?

Like, is that enough for you? Other people think so. You know what I mean? Other people think so. A loss is a loss to me, though, man. In my eyes, like, I understand. I'm happy. I'm happy with however the situation goes.

was out. I'm happy God brought me home. I'm happy we got home without neither one of us has any permanent injuries and I don't have any broken bones and I can get back into the gym as soon as possible and just get better. You know what I mean? That's a victory for me. We both made it out okay and we get to go home to our families and I get to see my mom and my little brothers and sisters and my girlfriend and I get to eat all the crap food I want. You know what I mean? That's that's my moral victory man. Now it's now it's just trying to look at what I need to do to be a world champion. You know what I mean? That's that's where I'm at man. How do I become a world champion? Is it go down in 25? Is it stay at 35 and just just get better? So that is where we are at now.

We are at now. We are looking at what is the future hold for me. And I'm going to be talking to the UFC people soon and figuring out where I go from here. Yeah, I was going to ask you because even you haven't fought at 25 since you're an amateur, right? Like early on in your amateur career, that was the last time you fought at 25, right? Yeah, I think my last one was, either 2015 or 2016 was my last one. I would have to look in my topology or whatever it is. But, yeah, man, it's been a long time, man. It's just my body got a little older and don't really know how to do it properly.

But now that I have the resources, mine will take advantage of them and figure out what I have to do, man. I can handle 35ers, man. I'm strong and I've been doing it for a long time. but if I can do it healthy and go down to 25 maybe it's a smart choice so I'll have to talk to some people and figure out what I have to do

Yeah I think you got fights at 45 too Memory seriously correctly right For sure man I fought some really good 45 or so Hey man I'm cool wherever this goes I'm cool as a cucumber man Fighting is fighting Fighting is what I love to do

And you all saw that last night I can be in there and take a beating Or I can give a beating and I'll be all right when I come out. Dana White told reporters that after the fight, he basically told you and your team, don't talk to anybody, go straight to the hospital.

And I was texting back and forth with your manager, Tyson Charity. He told me around 2.30 in the morning on Sunday that you were out of the hospital, you were relaxing, and that all the scans were clear and that you were good to go. So is that accurate?

And can you elaborate, perhaps, on like what the doctors told you? Yeah, everything was good. They said I was clear. They let me go home. They forced me to go to the hospital, man. I had no choice. I go to the hospital, got my scans, made sure I was okay.

They're great, man. They're great people. All these, all these, the UFC people really taking care of me and allowed me to, allowed me to do what I love to do, man. It was a great, great vibe, man, great, great people that work for the USC. I really appreciate this whole experience. When did you find out you got the bonus? Literally, once I, like, 10 seconds before that, that DC video came out.

You know what I mean? I was sitting up in my, I got back from the hospital, go out to see my coaches who were just chilling in the room because they were waiting at home because my girlfriend went to the, to the hospital. And, yeah, they were like, they started freaking out before I do. Everybody finds out things before I find out, man. And it's great, man. Money is cool, man.

not, but money's never been a big thing for me. So we're going to try to just, just use that money to make sure I can do this for the rest of my life. You know what I mean? So I did want to get your take on something if you don't mind because, you know, most of the reaction, as you know, has been positive. But I wasn't sure if you saw some of your fellow New England regional fighters reacting to you, not just getting the call, but talking about your performance. Like I know Johnny Campbell, who you had fought before, had some things to say, gave you respect and props, but reminded people that he finished you once before in CES. And then Jay Perrin had some things to say, something to the effect of I would,

he would never want to be known as a guy who took a giant ass whipping. So I just, I just kind of want to get your reaction to that from some of your fellow local fighters. That's funny. That's funny. There's a couple of clowns. One of them has 30 losses and the other one, the other one, the other one, just talks too much. You know what I mean?

So it's cool, man. I don't care. I don't care. They can fight me whenever they want. I told Cupcase I'd fight him again and Perrin Perrin can just keep saying whatever he wants man. I'm here to fight

man if you're in front of me I'll fight you I don't complain I don't ask questions I fight who they put in front of me and I'm going to keep working my butt off to make sure that I have a long career in the UFC I'm here you can say whatever you want man you don't want to be known as the guy who took an asswhip

I'm here you're outside somewhere just looking at me. So just have a good time, man. Have a good time. I'm here to, I'm here to look for my next fight and make, make, make, make this career. By the way, do you know who made that meme of you,

of Randy Marsh of South Park with the green hair? And it said, hey, O'Malley, I didn't hear no bell. Because that is amazing. I was, I was crying, laughing. Do you know who made that? No, I don't. Some dude send me one and then I, then I reposted it.

But I don't think he made the thing, but it was hilarious, man. I tweeted that. And again, this stuff is crazy how this works. Like, I don't understand how this social media things work. Because three days ago, like I said, I had 1100 followers, and I have 70,000 followers on this Instagram stuff. And then on my Twitter, I had nobody following me on Twitter. And now I got 20,000 followers on Twitter.

It's the weirdest thing, man, because it's never been something I even care. about but it's funny how how the world how the world works it goes from telling me i'm going to get knocked out and i'm going to die to now everybody's kissing my butt and telling me i'm going to be a world champion eventually it's so funny man but i'm just i'm just blessed i'm blessed by god and um i appreciate everything that he's given me in life last thing i want to ask you about it it became a big story during fight week that you quit your job at a paint factory when you got the call and you essentially went all in on yourself, which it sounds like you know, you're happy about. It's an amazing thing when you're able to do that. And, you know, you can kind of experience

the fruits of your labor. But, you know, especially after Saturday night, what has come from it? Like, what has that feeling been like? Because I'm sure there were some, some doubts maybe taking the leap like that. There's always sort of anxiety that comes attached to that. but kind of seeing the fallout of this crazy fight and seeing how people have reacted to it, is it kind of a vindicating feeling on that end? 100% man. It showed me I was right in what I did, man.

God gave me, listen, I'm very religious in my eyes, man. God gave me a choice. He gave me a choice to quit my job. Beginning of June, I quit my job. And I decided I was going to commit to myself. I was going to commit to training. I was going to commit to teaching. I was teaching at schools and build something for myself.

Build a fight pro. Build a, be able to fill the personal training. Build myself out, build my own business. And then literally less than a month later, I'm in the UFC. You follow the good things God sits out for you, man, and good things happen to your life. And as long as you give it all the drama of your life, which I have done, there's no drama in my life at all.

I got a great girlfriend, great people around me. My circle is very small, and my team is great. And the last two years has been a blessing to me, even though with all this COVID stuff going on, it's just been a miracle, man. Did you see Sean after the fight at all? No, I didn't really see him, man. Again, like I said, he seems like a nice enough guy, man,

when he doesn't have a camera in his face. Man, when he's got a camera, he's the guy you see. So I'm sure he's a good dude, man. Nothing but good things for his life, I hope. Great stuff from Massachusetts' own, Chris Whitino. I mean, look, you heard it from him. He knows he took a record amount of shots in that fight. He felt like he deserved to finish it.

27 seconds left. He's not going to whine and cry about it, but he felt he had earned the right to go to a decision with Sean O'Malley. and I actually agree with them. But again, I get why people were concerned, you know, the live to fight another day mentality and all that. I get it.

Either way, his stock rose exponentially even in a loss like that. And good on him for that. Taking a fight on 11 days notice. You didn't get the win. You took a little bit of a beating. You're okay physically. You feel good about it. And you made a bunch of extra money and your popularity has gone through the roof.

So congratulations to Chris Petino. Good on him. As we move ahead to my conversation. with Eugene Aubria. Crazy, heartbreaking yet inspiring story from the Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, regional MMA scene. This goes beyond MMA.

And I think anybody fight fans, not fight fans, can get something out of this. So here it is right now on what the heck. All right, we move ahead to our next guest. His name is Eugene Aubrey, a professional mixed martial artist out of Philadelphia.

I had the chance to actually watch him compete live in January of 2019. I was covering CES, 54 and he had a pretty crazy fight with Gil Pignero, got a second round submission win, and then he went on to lose a close split decision to Solomon Renfro in August for CFFC later on that year. But two months after that, his life changed in a big way. So I wanted to get Eugene on here to share his story.

Eugene, thank you for doing this, man. How are you? I'm good. How are you doing today? I'm doing great. So to sort of set the scene, it's October 22nd, 2019. you just finished working out, you're getting ready to go get something to eat, right?

You get off the train, and then everything just sort of changed for you. What happened that night in Philadelphia? Well, yeah, it was 2020. 2020, my apologies. Yeah, no problem. So, yeah, it was October 22nd of 2020. So I work at a gym.

It's called World Class Mixed Martial Arts. It's located kind of around the Kensington area, but a little bit outside of Kensington. I coach there. I coach a kids class, and I was coaching adults or teens, depending on the schedule. And so I was coming home for my job, and I was getting off the training over at 52nd Street, 50-second Market. I started walking down the street, and I got a little hungry.

So I wanted to stop at a restaurant that was close to home because I only live a couple blocks away from 52nd Street. So they go, okay, just stop here, get some of you to eat go home. So when I walked up to the restaurant, I saw it close, so I just hit it right. I was on 50 second in spruce. I just hit it right. And then somebody ran up behind me. I spun to see what was because I felt a tug on my bag. And then I got shot.

Basically, I got hitting the neck point blank range. And it paralyzed me from the chest down. When I first saw this story, you posted on Facebook, like maybe a month or to after it happened. I was like completely in shock. I couldn't believe it. Like I couldn't imagine what had been going on in the minds of your family and your friends and those close to you. So luckily from what I saw and correct me if I'm wrong, because I'm learning a little bit of this as we go along as well, there was somebody in the neighborhood who came out and like noticed something was happening and he called the police. And a lot of times like citizens wouldn't do that.

And this person did and his wherewithal more than likely saved your life. Like is that what happened? Do you remember that or is that something that was told to you after the fact? No, I remember I was completely conscious, believe it or not. So I seen somebody come outside and I yelled for him. And I do agree with you that. That was because especially where I was in West Philadelphia, people don't typically come outside when I hear a gunshot. They just stay inside.

So for him to come outside and see what was going on, you know, what was that? That was awesome because it gave me the opportunity to get his attention. And then he called the police. I basically realized at that point, I was paralyzed. I already knew. So when they asked me to get up, I'm like, look, I can't. So they threw me in the back of the paddy wagon and then drove me to the trauma center. Have you talked to this person since that night?

Do you know, like, who it was by name or anything? No, actually, believe it or not. I had no opportunity to. I did get to talk to the police officer that arrived on the scene, but I did not get to talk to the good Samaritan that came outside and helped me out. So from what I read, you were put in a medically induced coma when you got to the hospital? Is that accurate? Yeah.

So they had to basically because they operate on my neck, they didn't want me to move at all. So they had to put me on paralytics and put me out. So that way I wouldn't irritate the spot because where I got shot was right in the base of my neck. So how long were you in how long do they have you in the in the induced coma for? It's hard to remember to be honest. I would say I didn't really start getting my bearings on what was going on until about three days after my birthday. So about 10 days after everything had happened.

That's when I started coming to a little bit more and understanding that I was in the hospital. but I would say probably could have been with five days and then I remember getting put on like real heavy drugs like anthemines and stuff and so it's kind of hard to piece together exactly how long but 10 days I started understanding okay I'm in the hospital I was shot and I remember was it like a surreal feeling to kind of realize and try to put the dots you know connect the dots of what happened, like knowing where you were and why you were there. It was like once you started thinking clearly and kind of realizing what was going on, like, how did you react to that? Was it just like a crazy surreal moment in your life? I would say, yeah, in a sense that almost died, but overall it just kind of sucked. Because then, you know, you start understanding, okay, legs aren't moving.

and like I would I would say no one wants to get shot but it wouldn't feel as bad if it didn't take so much away so than anything so it's kind of more or less dealing with that because I already you start you already realize it so you're just okay trying to deal with that more than anything I feel like but it was crazy just being that close to dying but that's it you I mean you get shot in the neck and you're speaking speaking pretty clearly. Like how long was it before you could actually talk? Like were you able to talk like right away or did it take some time? No, I couldn't talk for about a month. And partially because I had to be put on a ventilator. So I wasn't just, I had the two of my neck

and I wasn't able to breathe on my own. So there's something that it basically forces your lungs open. It's like a balloon almost. And so it, you can. can't speak while you have something like that in. But once I took the, they put like this speech box in, so as I kept progressing, and I started getting stronger, stronger, there's something that they used like a voice box. And they thought potentially I could need that depending on the damage to my vocal cords

if they were damaged. So, but once I put the speech box in, it kind of woke my voice up, and then I was able to talk without it. How long were you in the hospital for, total? The acute care, I was in the hospital, which is basically emergency room. I was there for about a month and four days. And then I went in the rehab. The gunshot, like you said, you knew you were paralyzed right away.

And I know I've seen some videos of you trying to work out and get some exercise in. What has the recovery been like in terms of trying to walk again? Like I know that's a huge hurdle you need to get over right now. and we'll talk about sort of a next step in hopes of being able to walk again fully in a moment due to an incredible amount of generosity amongst people that you know. But have you been able to like through PT or anything like that? Have you been able to, even if it's assisted, take any steps at all at this point? No, not yet.

Right now, basically, the major change is just my upper body got stronger. So where I got hit because all spinal cord injuries are different. and I think that's one of the things that you don't realize that until obviously you suffer one. So there's different levels. And so where I always sit was at a T1, which is pretty high. A T1 is right before your C's, and your C's is basically all in your neck. So the T did so one millimeter up, and I could have been a quadriplegic. And I almost was.

So the first thing I had to work back was my arms because my fingers were drawn in. I couldn't really open my hands. my grip I couldn't open anything I obviously can't open and close your hands I can't open like something simple like a carton of milk or brushing my teeth was couldn't do that so I had to work that back that's the first biggest major change I've had a little bit of feeling come down my back a tiny bit but other than that no my legs are still they have like spasms they're spastic but they don't I can't control them or take any time kind of steps yet I have been doing like standing frame and things like that, but that's still just upper body right now. Did they catch the person that shot you? Yes. So they arrested the kid. He happened to still have the gun on him and it matched the ballistics from the scene.

And right now he's just sitting in jail because he's linked to three other shootings. There's just something that he was just doing. All right. Well, that's at least good that he's off the street and can't do this to anybody else anymore. sure that, you know, there's so much that's frustrating for you about this whole situation. You mentioned that, you know, you've lost a lot of things through all of this. What would you say has been the most frustrating part for you? Well, the obvious, just not being able to train. That's what I want to do. I don't care about what it says. You know, going to the gym.

I can't, you know, that's a big mental chunk of my day. I mean, you got to think, you know, when you're a professional fighter and you're trying to make. get you're training two, three times a day. And you probably, you know, at the bottom, you know, we don't make as much money at first. So you're working on top of it. But your goal is set on how much mental energy you're putting towards trying to make it.

And then when it's just going like that, yeah, it kind of, it feels like a hole, you know, it's weird. But at the same token, you know, I'm a silver lines guy and I don't know how you feel or anything, but you know, you probably have a new outlook on a lot of different things in your life. Like there are things you may have taken for granted in the past that you no longer take for granted. I mean, is that the case where you're like, I know being able to walk is something you clearly want to do again.

Getting back in the gym and training is something you want to do again. I'm sure those are the top of the list right now. But what's like one surprising thing that you've learned about this throughout this process that you won't that you won't ever take for granted again? Well, just appreciating your functions and the fact that you have, like life can change in a day. So you got to basically give it your best and be as positive as you can because you don't know when something's going to be over. So that's basically what I would take from it. Of course, people have come through in a big way for you. There's been a go fund me set up for you.

The goal is $50,000. That money is going to go into treatments that could assist you in getting you to walk again. But right now I looked at this morning, over $48,000 has been raised on your behalf on that. page, maybe some other money has come in along the way as well. What is all that support meant to you, man? It means a lot. The MMA community and just my local community, people that have seen me grinding and working and the amount of love that they have for me and the way that the MMA community is so tight-knit.

It really is a small circle. You get it all the time. You know, it's such a small circle. Everybody knows everybody. But this really shows it really is for people to see. my story and, oh, man, I want to help that guy. It means a lot. So the next step from what I saw is a stem cell procedure. Can you talk about what will go into that and what the hope is coming out of it, like how that's all going to work?

Yeah, I can go through the whole thing. I recently put up on my, I put it on my story, just the receipt just so I could share by exactly how everything broke down financially into, you know, piece by piece. But so basically what they're going to do is they're going to take 400 million stem cells, not all at once. So I go out there four times. It's four times over the course of a year every three months. 400 million stem cells, they're going to inject them right into my spinal fluid.

So the signs behind that is the only way to pass the blood-brain barrier is through the spinal fluid. So if they put the stem cells into the spinal fluid, it'll go into my brain and heal neurological pathways. And then on top of that, they have a big belief in the hyperbaric chambers, which are basically, you know, they increase oxygen levels and things like that. The oxygen will double the cell count. So in theory, you're getting 800 million stem cells. And so that's basically the science behind it in terms of what they're trying to accomplish. they figure that obviously you hit a neurological pathway

you'll start getting more firing of nerves lower and lower and lower and they've already had great results there's things you can see on the page I've seen a quadriplegic that couldn't move his arms and he's using an electrical wheelchair and then he comes back

and he's got a manual wheelchair and it's over the course of time nothing's like a quick fix and it's slow recovery it's still going to depend upon working hard, making sure I'm going to my physical therapy, making sure I'm exercising, all that stuff is important. If I don't do any of that, eating right, you know, everything goes into it to make it work. And it's not, it takes, it's over course of time, but they've shown results.

To go from an electric wheelchair to a manual wheelchair, that's big, that's huge, that's gigantic. So no one's gotten up sprinting, but if I can just, get that chance, I can get the opportunity to work myself back into a more. When is the first one happening? August 8th next month. All right. That's coming pretty quick. And you talked about how the thing you miss the most is training.

And I know how much you and I interacted like once before after the CES fight because I wanted to do an interview with you because I was there. And you were like not happy with your performance at all, even though it was a crazy fight and you won. But I'm sure, I mean, you've thought of. about this so much over the last several months, like how much you miss it. And so if the stem cell procedure works and you're able to like start making steps, like it's going to take time. But like, is fighting a possibility for you?

Like is that still something that could happen? Like, has it been completely ruled out yet? Well, of course, when you first go through something that's serious, yeah, you're going to be told, I mean, especially when I was in the emergency room, you're stuck like this. This is, this is what's going to be your life for. whatever. And it's sciences like this to where they're making these things more possible,

if that makes sense. So it's still somewhat unknown, but I'm going to exhaust it to the max capabilities that I can. You know, whatever is realistic for me, I'm going to do my best to get to that. Would you, I mean, I think you've kind of accepted where life is gone and you're going to

you're going to try to burst through that door if you can. And I know not being able to fight ever again will leave a big hole in your heart in your life not having that. But you can still be involved. I've seen you've been doing some commentary for Art of War on the regional scene. Would you be able to accept that? Like if this doesn't work, no longer being able to fight or would you be able to accept that? I think based on my health, I believe if the stem cells get me certain things back,

like maybe if I'm walking with a walker or, you know, I'm able to do more of myself. Yeah, that would probably be easier in a sense. But I don't necessarily want to think like that yet. But I know why you're asking that question. I mean, it's the question that should be answered. So, yeah, and that's why I'm looking for other things. Like you see me doing the commentary, I still got a lot of work to do. I'm not that good.

But it's still something to. I guess find other options inside of what I love to do in a different way. I think the biggest reason I wanted to have you on here, we spoke about this on Facebook, is the stories, while heartbreaking, it's also quite inspiring because there are people out there that are dealing with some awful situations themselves and are going through a lot of difficult things.

And probably most of those aren't even as bad as what you're going through. So what advice would you give to people dealing with these tough spots, being in rough situations where they feel like there's no way, there's no way I can come back from this. Like, what would you say to those people? I guess the cliche, you just don't give up. You just got to keep pushing. Try your best. And especially the way life and science and things are moving forward, you never know what could happen that could change how we have our outlook on reality. Right? Like, things can change and what could be impossible, could become possible.

So you got to hold out hope, you got to work hard, and you got to try your best to not quit. This is kind of like a weird question, and if you don't want to answer, you can tell me to kick rocks, and I would totally understand, if you were given the opportunity to see the guy who shot you, what would you say to him?

So they ask him why. It's like, it's crazy what's happening in Philadelphia sometimes. Like people are getting shot and they're not even trying to rob people anymore. It's just straight of gun violence. There's absolutely no reason. It's different if they took something from me. They didn't even want anything. It's different if I met them before and maybe there was an altercation and I wouldn't look at him as being honorable.

But if there was at least a reason to be upset, it would make a lot more sense. And it's just becoming a point where it's like they're feeling GT. or something. And people don't respond, you know, you change people's lives and you really affect people. So do you really understand? Can you comprehend what you're doing? You know, kind of crazy, right? So I just ask them why. Could you ever forgive them? I got based on my health. I got to be honest, you know, it took a lot for me. It's a lot. If I get better, the more better I get, unless I'll care. Fair enough. I'm glad you're maybe the person I've ever spoken with Eugene. I'm sorry this happened to you, but you are handling it with

a ton of class, a lot of grace, a lot of perseverance that is really inspiring. And there are things in my life that I certainly will look at a lot differently after this conversation. But before I let you go, let people know, because the go fund me is still open. There's other ways I believe they can help you out as well. How can they help you out? How can they support you on this on this comeback trail, my man, on getting back to your feed and trying to get out of this really difficult situation. Yeah, well, the GoFummy is still up. Other than that, I would say you can follow me on my Instagram at the underscore suitcase kit. I believe you type in suitcase kit would probably come up.

There's only one I can only Google it. But other than that, yeah, just to support. me watching my journey because I think I'm going to be able to do the impossible. That's it. I just support my journey because I'm going to do all the right things. I'm going to make sure that I put in the work and I'm going to get the best shot that I can. I can't guarantee anything. It's all new science. Everything's new. But from what they've shown that they can do and how physically fit and who I was before all this, I know that I'm able to push myself and if I'm going to try it. That's all I can do.

But that's it. You know, people have been so, they've been showing me so much love. Like, can't ask for too much more. I already, I already pay, but I don't feel, you know, I mean, people want to help out. That's cool. But I don't want to ask for more than what typically. So that's what I feel about it. Sorry.

Oh, that's all good, man. I appreciate that perspective. Last thing, were you, did you watch the UFC card on Saturday? Yeah. What did you think of it? What did you think of, uh, Poria McGregor, the fight, the aftermath, how it ended, so forth and so on? I think it's a bummer that ended like that in a sense.

But on the flip side of it, I think Porier wins that fight probably 10 out of 10 times now at 55. It's just a different fight. Like, look how much bigger Porier is at 55 than he is than McGregor. And McGregor's not a big 55 or the same way he was a big 45. he's not whereas Porreier looks like he could probably compete with some guys at welterweight. I mean not everybody but

he's a thicker guy so I think that 55 based on the size advantage that Porre carries along with the fact that he's gotten a lot better technically I just think that Porre has always been on my next point. Yeah I think a lot of people would agree with you on that but

thank you very much of the time Eugene best of luck to you on the stem cells. I'm excited there's, you know, there's some hope here and first procedure August 8th. So I wish you all the best man on everything, the comeback, your continued recovery, all of that. And I appreciate you coming on here to share your story, man. Yeah, I appreciate you for giving me your platform and giving me a little bit of a voice.

Thanks, brother. Absolutely. So, yeah, I mean, it was, what, three years later, but we got an interview done. So I appreciate that. All right. Eugene Aubrey, everyone. the suitcase kid and and I know he was very modest, but you can still donate to his GoFundMe page.

It's there. You can just search for his name, Eugene Aubrey. Last name is spelled A-U-B-R-Y, and I believe it's under his fighting nickname, which was the suitcase kid. But anything you can do to help him out on his journey to not just try to get back to fighting. That's something he wants to do,

but just getting him back on his feed, maybe taking that step, being able to walk even with the walker. So anything you can do to help, please do so. Help this guy out. The story is unbelievable. And I thank him very much for coming on the program and telling his story. But we're going to go ahead and wrap things up. One more interview to come, one that I enjoyed very much.

I wanted to shout out all of you, of course, for checking out the show this week. Keep it locked to M. May fighting all week for the rest of the great programming throughout the week. The A-Side is back on Wednesday. I believe Shot Al-Shoddy will be joining the show between the. The links. We'll see back on Thursday. Not sure what we're doing, but A.K. will be involved because the man's on fire. Two straight wins on between the links. Casey Liden, our wonderful producer. He's going to be in L.A. later on today, Tuesday, as you hear this right now, bringing you the Jake Paul Tyrone Woodley Press Conference. We just found out that that fight's

going down August 29th in Cleveland. So some Sunday crazy boxing, ladies and gentlemen. A big thanks to Casey for the production on this program, as he does each and every week. Big thank you to Alex and Jose for the wonderful graphics you see, the social media stuff that you'll be seeing throughout the week. And a lot more of it made this week. UFC is back again on Saturday. That card headline by Islam Makachev and Tiago Moises. Very interesting fight.

A lot of people are, I mean, the odds just, I can't remember a main event with the odds quite like this. I think the last time I checked Islam Makachov was near a 7 to 1 favor in this fight. But Tiago Moises is tough, man. Looking forward to this fight. Bellator is back as well on Friday. Giuliana Velasquez, her first title defense against Denise Keelholz going down on that card. So get ready for that.

We'll have you covered on both of those cards. Have a heck of a week, everybody. We will leave you with my conversation with Josh Barnett. All right, let us welcome to the program, the legend, the former UFC heavyweight champion, current Bellator heavyweight, the man behind Bloodsport Professional Wrestling. Happy to have Josh Barnett joining us this week. Josh, how are you, sir? Not doing well.

it's good to have you here. First off, I know you're a very busy man, but I'm curious if you got the chance to watch UFC 24 this past weekend, most notably the main event. Did you catch any bit or the highlights or anything? No. I wasn't of any interest to me whatsoever. Do you just not watch any of that stuff?

Like, because you are so busy? I watch nearly, I don't hardly watch. I watch almost nearly no mixed martial arts anymore, uh, except for maybe, maybe a select event here or there or, or specifics in terms of weight classes or fighters that my fighters might actually have to meet at some point. So, like, in a scholastic sense, sure, but as a general, like, I go out of my way to go, no, not so much. I mean, unfortunately, that's a whole different discussion.

I don't think that MMA is a stale sport per se, but I feel like it's become, very one note. And it's kind of, it's lost a bit of, I think, what made it so precious and interesting in the first place. How so? Like what, what specifically do you think it's missing right now? A whole other discussion with a whole lot more time. All right, fair enough. But you're obviously in a discussion right now when it comes to Bellator because there are some news that dropped a couple of weeks ago that Fedor Emilienenko is returning to action on October 23rd in Moscow. So I'm curious what your reaction was to finding out Fado was coming back and how long did it take you to pick up the phone and get in touch with Scott Coker? It took me a matter of seconds to just let Scott know.

But as for Fiotto returning to action, if he feels truly that he's got more left in him, then I salute him. I know that it's tough for people on the outside looking in to watch a person of so many fights. and, you know, let's say they have the opinion of a declining career. Well, the thing is, careers at all in terms of professional athletics are incredibly short, rare, and not the kind of thing that you can ever pick back up again. So my opinion is to use it while you have it. And then when that door is closed, it's closed for good. So, you know, don't leave anything on the table.

I mean, I'm sure you've seen it, but you're a name that a lot of people have at the top of their lists to see this fight with Fador, if you will. And there are a lot of other very interesting names on that list as well. And it's crazy that throughout your over 20 year career, you and Fador haven't fought each other. Like, I know you were supposed to fight him in 2009 under the Affliction Banner. It didn't happen. You know, you have a submission went over his brother, but a Fador versus Josh Bardett fight has never officially happened. Why do you think that hasn't been revisited at least over the last decade plus or even booked before that? It's just really a matter of circumstance.

And yeah, of course, my name is at the top of the list. It's almost as if they made the list just to make it seem as if there was the illusion of choice in this case. But, I mean, even from the responses on Twitter and everywhere else on the Internet, it's really quite obvious that everyone's saying, well, yeah, duh, this is the fight to make. All these other fights, I mean, some of these fights have interest in their own rights, but they're not this fight, me versus Fiorior. and really there's more circumstance most of the time why things don't happen than why they do even when you're in the same organization and so people will at times ask me about well who do you want to fight or who do you want to this and it's like well I mean I could always throw a name out there but it doesn't mean anything it means the jack squat because that fighter has to agree that fighter's management has to agree then the promoter has to agree so anywhere in between any of those three people anyone says no

there's no fight. And when you're dealing with the landscape of multiple organizations at times with me and Jodor are at times being in different places or sometimes just narrowly missing each other for various reasons, you know, I was in the Strike Force heavyweight tournament as well, but he lost and he wasn't able to move on and forward. But it's really a matter of lining things up in such a way to make it happen. And of course, these things take a lot of money and a lot of logistics. And so it's not just so easy to just put fights like this together. There's just too much on the line. Do you feel like the timing has never been better than right now? You know, I don't know. Time will tell whether that's the case or not. But it's definitely available. It's an opportunity.

And the idea of fighting in Russia sounds fantastic to me. I don't care that I would be the away, you know, in this case that I would be the opponent for the hometown boy. Personally, sure, glad. I think he deserves all of that. And then some, if people have short memories, I'm his friend. So I support him having the most of whatever he can get out of life. Because him fighting in Moscow, even if I'm able to get this match, doesn't actually take anything away from me at all.

I suffer nothing. And I actually have really enjoyed being in Russia the times that I've gotten to go over there, work over there, work with people. And I have a very strong fan base in Russia myself. And in fact, because of that, it makes a really, really solid argument as to why Fedor should be fighting me over there because we're the two most, two of the most popular, if not the most popular heavyweights in Bellator in Russia. And the fights in Russia for the Russian hero. and, you know, there's nothing like going in there and fighting a hero in his own backyard.

And that's where the heroic moments are going to happen. And, you know, win or lose or draw, I think it would be an amazing opportunity, not just for me. And if this is his last fight, well, then what a place and what a way to do it with someone that actually really gives a shit about him and wants to venerate him, even if I beat him. I don't want his name. I don't want his legacy. I don't want anything about this matchup to be a negative towards Fjordor in any way. Like you said, you are friendly with him. Have you and him had any discussion at all about like, hey, why don't we do this?

Anything like that? No, I haven't made me Enroads that way. I'm just letting the promotion do what they wanted. And again, if he could say, yes, this is a fight I want. And his management go, yeah, we're totally down for it. Bellator could say, well, we're not making it. What are you left with? Nothing.

So it isn't quite that easy. But I can just keep annoying Scott Coker. And, you know, if he doesn't make the fight, if I don't get in a fight contract, about agreement here soon, I guess I'll have to start sending like really annoying memes and YouTube videos and Rick rolling him. And I'll find my way in. How many times have you reached out to him at this point? I don't know. Like, who could count?

I just send him a text or call him. I've known Scott Coker for a very long time. A dozen, at least? So, I mean, like we mentioned, a lot of hands are being raised with this fight. Scott Coker said, Alastor O'Overeem wants it. Junio Santos wants it. Fabricio Verduem, a guy that we're not even really sure how he factors into this since he signed with the PFL. He doesn't.

Yeah, which is insane because there are some reports saying that he's gotten the blessing from PFL to go after this fight, but that's neither here or there because I don't even know. But, you know, there's some other names that have thrown a name in the hat. We'll get to that in a moment. But how do you feel like your chance to stack up against those guys, your fellow former world champions in the Fadar Sweepstakes? Like, do you think you have a better chance in like Overeem or DeSanto? Or, I mean, Verdume might probably put at the bottom of that list right now with the circumstances being what they are. But how do you feel like you stack up against maybe Overeem or DeSantos in this conversation? I don't really know.

I mean, that's a really subjective take. And I'm not really that interested in the. Evaluation of that kind of an argument, it's just I think it's the right fight to make. I think that I've got plenty of ways to create a sound reason why that fight should happen. And it's one that has been wanted and waiting for many a year in the legacy of mixed martial arts between two of its top heavy weights. And it's as simple as that. But I do not have mind control over anybody. And I cannot pull the strings as a puppet master.

But I'll do my best. Fair enough. So another name that has garnered a lot of attention into this mix is former WWE World Heavyweight Champion, current AEW wrestler, current Bellator Heavyweight Jake Hager. And I spoke to Jake a little less than two weeks ago. And he told me that the social media posts regarding this fight, they're legit. There's no cave-fabe here. He 100% legitimately wants this fight. And he believes that he is the right guy to put in this spot. We saw on social media, you didn't quite agree with that. Why is that? because the only thing that matters about Jake Hager is former WWE AEW pro wrestler, not Bellator fighter.

That's really neither here nor there. Without the other two, the third one doesn't even exist and no one gives a shit. So, you know, everything that Jake Hager has to bring to the table is from something that has nothing to do with fighting. and I'm not against the entertainment aspect of all professional athletics, especially MMA, MMA, as people will know. I consider it just one side of the same coin as pro wrestling. So don't let me, don't let my harsh words and necessarily take away from the fact that I actually support Jake Hager as a fighter, being a fighter. I think it's great and people should get in the ring. But there's a big difference between a guy who has just now kind of decided.

to get in the ring and start fighting for what would appear to me to be a cash grab and an attention get not to really be a full-bred, real, dedicated MMA fighter, trying to vie or leverage himself into a fight that has never been his. that when it was even first being discussed, he was still possibly even in a singlet out there wrestling for Oklahoma, not having any consideration of being a fighter, but thinking about how he's going to be a WW wrestler. And he's decided to make a phase shift and throw his hat into the world of mixed martial arts for as long as however that's going to last.

And okay, great. now stick to your own path and let those that are at the absolute top of the game do what they're supposed to do. I know you don't partake in a lot of MMA unless it's, you know, from a, you know, educational perspective for some of your fighters. But have you watched any of Jake's fights at all? I've seen bits of it because I wanted to see if he could actually deliver. And I'm like, well, I see some good things. I also see some things that show like, man, is he really far from really being. a really solid top guy.

I mean, he's got a couple, he's got some skill sets in specific areas that can help him get him out of trouble in the right matchups, but he ain't there. And I don't blame him for not being a top guy with only technically four fights in a career yet. So that's fine. And in fact,

I wouldn't have even given to two shits and has had anything to say of any note. about Jake Hager, except when a man who is just barely getting his training wheels comes in and says that he has a bigger following and more excitement and a brighter future and that he should be given this fight, which has never been his, and they're going to build a company upon what Jake Hager does. And all of us, including all the other previous names, are just coming in for a one and done, and he's here for the next 10 years. let's go. Well, how old is he's like 38, 39, or I don't know, 10 years? He's going to be fighting until he's near 50. I mean, brother, if you could do that, amazing. I wouldn't tell you not to, but it doesn't really seem very plausible considering that most MMA fighters' careers are under seven, let alone five. And by about seven years, the statistics show that the decline in performance is rapid, which is why, you know, me being around as long as I have is actually,

a real rarity and also Veter Belfort and Anderson Silva and being able to carry those things along but that's not normal and so you know saying this guy is going to be around for 10 years and so it just it came off so utterly arrogant and

disrespectful which I'm like all right I mean if I guess if we're cutting promos now I mean that's what we're going to do but I'm not going to let you dog me out like that especially when you're trying to wedge yourself into something that belongs to me and Fedor and And, you know, my opinion is, unless he was a show differently, he's going to fight until he loses, and then he's going to quit because he's not a real fighter.

He hasn't shown me anything that shows that he's really made of the stuff that fighters of legend are going to be known for. And you know what? If that's where it takes him and that's enough for him, I'm not here to say that he should be forced to do anything that he shouldn't do or to try and stay involved in something if his passions or his, if his passions or his, dedication or maybe even his capabilities reach a certain point. That's fine. And I could easily see him maybe even just maybe even never fighting again for Belator one more time against another guy who's two and five or something like that, getting a win and then being like, oh, well, you know, that's too hard.

I'll just keep making my money where I already know where my bread is buttered and call it good. And you know what? I could use that as a point of insult. but truly, I mean, he's got a wife. I don't know if he's got kids. I mean, he's got all kinds of other things to think about. That's totally acceptable, too. But you put all these little details and factors together,

and then you run your mouth about people like myself and others. Well, okay, now, now I've got something to say. I know you feel like this is a potential cash grab for Jake to try to get in there and make some headlines, the following, so forth and so on. But is there any part of you that at least respects the gusto of Hager here with only four pro fights to call out for a fight with Fador? No, nothing. I don't respect any of it because it's false. It's not real.

This is not built from a real place, from a sincere statement. No, it's bullshit. It is, I'm nobody really in the realm of fighting and I'm 3 and O and I'm supposed to lose. And if I lose, no big deal. if I win, oh, look, I got my little hero moment. He's got nothing to lose about this. And he can always go back to AEW. And it's like, well, but yeah, you lost to one of the best of all time, if not the best of all time.

So no one will hold it over your head too much. And then it's a great way to exit. And to say, like, I was an MMA fighter. Now, you know, check me out. I'm a pro wrestling MMA fighter guy. You know, is this for real? I fought the best. you bought one guy that was the best.

The rest of it was a combined record of 14 and 10. And then one of those guys bonged you in the balls. And you were like, man, I was getting the worst of it. So I think I'm out of here. Jake responded to your thoughts about him. Poorly. Yeah, you didn't like that. Bottom barrel.

Bottom barrel. We saw us. I'm like, wow, you're supposed to be a WWE trained promo cutter, which is, yeah, they are trained. And then, you know, now he's in AEW. I don't know if he's being given scripts over there, if they're allowed him to go off cuff. But it's just, it's just so sad. You know, the art of the promo is dead.

And Jake Hager is sticking a knife in it. Yeah, I mean, he does have the following. He is on a weekly pro wrestling show that would help promote the fun. You know, it's hilarious. He's got the following yet. If you see my response versus his responses, I'm destroying him in terms of likes and retweets and every, like, I have.

have, let's see, around like one tenth the amount of Twitter followers that he has. And yet, I'm getting an order of magnitude greater response than he does. You know, why? Because people don't really give a shit. They know he's not legit at this. They know that his claims are not for real. And they knew that he, he immediately went bargain basement, took the cheapest thing he could throw out there. And everyone's like, all right, is that what you, is that all you got? You know, and I wouldn't suggest that he get into a promo battle with me. He's not going to win that. And this isn't about me building a fight against Hager.

I don't want to fight Hager. Fighting Hager does absolutely nothing for me. Zero. Beating him is no big deal, and I'm supposed to. I'm not also trying to make a guy money just because he sucks at cutting promos. That's not my intent. I want to fight the best. I want to fight those that are going to make a legendary fight like Fjorda Emilio or

go to Poland and go fight and bare-knuckle boxing and with elbows. and do something of a heroic and over the top nature, not fight AEW, I'm going to MMA fight for a bit guy. I'm not going to do that. And as for it being for Bloodsport, no, it's not that either. If I wanted Jake for Bloodsport, I would have just got his number and then asked him if it was something he was interested in,

then tried to build the best match that I could for him so that he and his opponent could have the best opportunity possible. Because, you know, even though I may take offense to these sort of things, I'm not here to ruin this guy's career either. And I'm not here to be petty about professional wrestling either, you know. What was that KSW experience like for you, the bare-knuckle fight?

Did you enjoy that? I loved it. It was being in Poland was really awesome and getting to meet a whole bunch of fans that I have never interacted with before. Plus, I have a lot of friends in Poland that are close to me. And so they were able to be there. ringside and cheer me on and spend time with some of them and their families afterwards. And I'm one of the major reasons I ever even got into mixed martial arts so I could see the world.

And this is part of it. You being able to go to Poland for the first time. And yet all it did was make me want to go back because there's all these other cities, some of the more ancient places with the older, older architectures and things that survived World War II. And I want to see that. I want to see it all. I'm not just here to, I'm not a one, one note kind of person. I am a fighter and I take it very seriously, but there's a lot to see it and do in this world.

And I'm trying to get as much of it in as I can while I still got the chance. Do you feel like I feel like bare knuckle like just the sport of it all. I mean, we've seen the organizations in the United States. They're starting to get very popular right now. Like do you see a future like in four or five years could bare knuckle like get to that next level? because I feel like some of the, especially with the last BKFC event, the traffic could generate and some of the storylines that came out of it were massive. It was like surprising. Do you see like a big future in that sport?

I don't know whether it could be a big future. A substantial future for those involved, perhaps. And I like I like bare knuckle in the sense of it's bringing back that old ethos of where MMA No Holds Bard came from. and that is people that want to go out there and test themselves. And it can be tough where the media and the money and the finding that all the success that comes with some of these things, as it gets larger and larger and larger and larger, often I would say that the events and things of this nature lose the plot. And I think it's capable, albeit probably not easy,

but it's capable, a thing like this is capable of keeping the ethos, the integrity of what you're trying to do and what makes it so interesting and dynamic to the viewership and to those that want to participate in it, as well as increase the media visibility, increase the financial success of it and find new ways to bring in incomes and things like that because I think it's really important with anything you do in this era. even outside of fighting, coffee shop, other things. You really need to separate the economics and the strictly business side of things from the passion. And the passions, even when you're not making a ton of money or you're not seeing massive success, but you're moving along and you're creating, that sustains people. Just money alone, it doesn't. and if bare knuckle can try to keep that purity as well as market and push and you know draw fighters to it that want to be as passionate about it as they are about any

whatever the thing they love most in life they'll do well because passion is you can't it's it's always visible you cannot hide it it's not You fake it and everyone knows that it's not real, but they know it when they see it, and it doesn't matter what you do. It's just emanates from your action. You're such a like an even keel guy. You just,

you roll up the punches. There's lots of opportunity for you. You're a very busy man. Will you be pissed if you don't get the Fador fight? Yeah. Yeah, I will. I will be more,

you know, not so maybe piss isn't even the right word. I will be very disappointed. That's a, better, I think that's a better descriptor of what I would be feeling. I would be incredibly disappointed because I would see it as the last, like the end of that opportunity. That would be gone. And I would then do nothing but to work to find other potentials and leave that one behind and completely disregard it unless it somehow just came back to me. Otherwise, I'd throw

it away. I'd be done with it. It's not, it's not, it's not, the juice ain't worth the squeeze. and I don't care, you know, what the Internet says. I'll just like, no, I'm going to put my efforts into things that are going to be more worthwhile. So even the fact that he said he wants to do one fight in Russia, one fight in the U.S. before he walks away, would that just, would he still just turn the page? Well, then I would, it would basically be ball and their court sort of thing. Right. You know, but, you know, he could do one fight in Russia and be like,

ah, that was a good enough fight. Bye. You know what I mean? With every single fight, with, I mean, you could almost say every training session, you just don't know. His body has been through a lifetime and then some of amateur and professional athletics. I don't know to what level injuries and just chronic pain and different things are affecting his life. And I really can't take for granted that he's just going to exist for me to fulfill that match or vice versa. Whether you get the fate or fight or not, will we see you compete this year somewhere or another?

I don't know. That's up to Scott and company. Hopefully. You can bet you're going to see more bloodsport. That's for sure. As we've got plans to continue to push the product forward and keep bringing the toughest and roughest wrestlers that we can find from all over the world to compete in this very specific and unique environment that you're just not going to. find anywhere else. Like I said, a lot of buzz. So if you're a wrestling fan, make sure you check out blood sport. Next event, TBD, so keep your eye out for that. But Josh, I appreciate the time

very much. I'm glad we're able to get this going. And like I said, and you know this already, a lot of people are on Team Barnett to get this fight on October 23rd in Moscow with Fador-a-Million Aco. So all the best to you in getting it, man. It's literally a massacre at this point, how much it's on Team Barnett. It is ridiculous. But that's okay. What would anybody expect otherwise? Well said, my man. Thank you for the time. And again, all the best in getting that fight. I think it's, it makes a ton of sense. Thank you very much. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.