MMA Fighting - What the Heck: Episode 69 | Mickey Gall, Din Thomas & BKFC 19 Recap

Episode Date: July 27, 2021

This week on What the Heck, MMA Fighting's Mike Heck (3:49) recaps a memorable week in Tampa covering BKFC 19, talks biggest takeaways, Rachael Ostovich's win over Paige VanZant and gives his take on the biggest star of the event. Din Thomas then joins Mike to recap the top storylines coming out of UFC Vegas 32, including TJ Dillashaw's win over Cory Sandhagen in the main event, a rough night for the judges, and more. Finally, Mickey Gall talks his successful return to the octagon after over a year away with a first-round submission over Jordan Williams at UFC Vegas 32 and what he wants next. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. What the Heck with Mike Heck on MMAFiting.com. Now here is your host, Mike Heck. What the heck? Well, hello there, everybody, and welcome to a brand new edition of What the Heck here on MMAfighting.com. I am Mike Heck. Thank you so much for checking out the show this week.

I have returned from Sunshine, Tampa, Florida, my first experience covering a BKFC event, BKFC 19, and it was a lot of fun. I really enjoyed it. And we'll talk more about that in a little bit to officially open up the program. The UFC was back this past Saturday with a pretty loaded card. UFC Vegas 32 headlined by a tremendous fight between the former UFC Banimway champion, the returning T.J. Dillishaw, he took on Corey Sanhagan. Dillishaw gets the nod via split decision in a fight that a lot of people feel will be in the conversation for the fight of the year. Come December when all the awards conversations begin and just a tremendous fight.

I got a chance to finally watch it on Monday morning and I scored it for Sanhagen. I thought he won the fight, but no robbery at all. The real winners were the fans and everybody that got to watch the fight. So it's definitely not anything egregious in terms of the scoring and who won the fight. It was tremendous and both stocks rose. and that's all you can ask for. There were definitely some quote-unquote robberies on this card, and we'll discuss that for sure on the show.

But, man, pretty loaded weekend in the combat sports world. We got another loaded weekend ahead of us this weekend. We got Bellator 263 coming up on Saturday, headlined by the big one, Patricia Pitbull versus A.J. McKee for the featherway title. It's the Grand Prix finale. This is a fight that's been built up and built up. and built up tremendously, perfectly by the promotion. So very excited for that.

What a fight that is on paper. I know what's being billed is the biggest fight in Bellator history. I don't know if I would go that far. I have to really think about it. But it's definitely up there. It's definitely up there. And I can't remember the last time I was this excited for a Belator fight. I mean, Belator's got some good cards and some good fights.

And I've been excited for a good chunk of them. But like this, I don't know, man. And this is one of those cards that just get you all fired up. And really looking forward just to seeing how this thing plays out, what we're going to be talking about come Sunday or Saturday night, Sunday morning, Monday all throughout the week. And we will be there throughout the week in Englewood, California. So make sure you follow along with us right here on MAFighting.com.

Of course, the UFC is also back on the same night. Belator and the UFC going head-to-head. That card headlined by Uriahall versus Sean Strickland. So a lot to be excited about if you are a fan of mixed martial arts and combat sports. As far as the guest list this week, a bit of an abbreviated show. I'm not back home. Getting back to the swinging things here in the Northeast. But we'll wrap things up with Mickey Gall, who looked tremendous on Saturday.

He stopped Jordan Williams. Best performance of his career in my eyes, his first fight in around 13 months or so. He dealt with a lot in between the loss to Mike Perry and this fight. and even just in the buildup to this fight with Jordan Williams. We'll discuss the big win and what he wants a little bit later on. We'll also recap UFC Vegas. 32. The big storylines mostly with Mr. Dean Thomas.

Of course, one of the best minds in the sport. So stay tuned for that. But just more on the Fight Week experience covering a BKFC event. It was a blast. I was on an airplane for the first time in around two years. Flew out of Boston to Tampa. I got there, got to the hotel. hotel room wasn't ready yet. I'm all sweaty and gross. And all I want to do is take a shower

at that point. But I couldn't really do that. Had a change in the lobby bathroom, hop in an Uber, and head on over to the press conference in Clearwater, which was a lot of fun. It was at Bert's Baracuda, Harley Davidson, which is a really cool spot for it. And it got a little testy with Britton Hart and Jenny Savage at the press conference. And just the whole thing, the look, the experience was great, got a chance to talk to Page, got a chance to talk to Rachel Ostovich, Britain Hart, got some open workout stuff. I even got to meet Paul Sr. from Orange County Choppers. You guys remember that show?

I saw him, I said hello, and then he actually like came up to me and shook my hand and said that he watches a lot of the stuff we do over at MMA fighting. And I thought that was pretty cool. So it's cool to meet Paul Senior, which is cool being out there for that experience of the press conferences. I just really dug it. I thought it was really well done. And then Thursday, we're back, we were at the Florida State Fairgrounds in Tampa where the fights are actually going to take place.

That's where the weigh-ins were. And some fun face-off, some pushing, some shoving. Things got a little testy at times. And it was fun. Got some cool stuff, some good interviews after that. But then the card itself on Friday was just nuts, man. Twist and turns. We had run-ins.

We had people jump on the guardrail. We had people in the seats trying to jump. the guardrail. We had violent finishes. We had impressive performances. We had rap performances walking social media influencers to the cage, like the fighters all brought, even the social media influences. They went out there and they fought their asses off. Yeah, it was with gloves and yeah, it wasn't bare knuckle. It was what it was. But, you know, kudos to those kids for getting out there and doing what a lot of people in the crowd wouldn't have done. So good on them. And I get to say, like, I got to talk to a few of them just like, you know, not on camera,

not in a like a full-on fight week setting. And they were all very, very nice. They were all very, very nice people. And, you know, good on them. And some of them want to fight bare-knuckle the next time around. We'll see if that actually happens. But that's what they told me they want to do on set on Friday night after the event. But in terms of the card itself, a lot of stars, in my opinion on the night.

Of course, Rachel Ossivich beating Paige Vanzant was a big deal. Not a lot of people thought that was going to happen. And I came out of that fight with Paige feeling that Bear Knuckles kind of perfect for Rachel Ostovich. Is it not? I mean, that Hawaiian warrior spirit was on full display. She looked incredibly comfortable in there. I mean, she cracked Paige right away, like in the opening seconds of that fight.

And it set the tone for the rest of it. Like, she looked great. She looked really, really good. And I know a lot of people think, like, Paige looked back. bad and I didn't think she looked bad at all. I thought Rachel just looked great. And that was just a big difference maker. So Rachel gets the win. Page is now 0 and 2 and BKFC. It'll be interesting to see what they do from here with her from here. But I mean, there's no wrong answer. There's plenty of options for her. Maybe you throw in there with Cassie Robb. I know Casey Leiden talked about that. That makes a lot of sense to

me. And whatever Rachel Ossovich wants to do, she can do falls in her court. But the affirmation Britton Hart. She looked great. She finished Jenny Savage. It was, uh, I got to say, I was impressed with both of those ladies throughout the week. Their demeanor, just conversations on camera, off camera, their interviews, just all of it. The stories they have, I was just really impressed with both ladies, but Britain looked sensational in the fight. But in my eyes, the biggest star of the night, maybe even the entire weekend in combat sports was Taylor Starly. I mean, what a performance. I mean, everything. She comes out walking out to to Mike Jones and got the place jumping.

People were going crazy to the song. It was just a perfectly selected song. She danced. Cassie Robb's rapping in the center of the ring. And she just goes out there and savagely beats up Cassie Rob. And if you've watched Cassie Robb fighting MMA, I know it's a different sport altogether. Cassie's a very durable fighter. And Taylor just didn't give her a second to breathe.

She just went right after her. As soon as she cracked her once, she cracked her about 435 more times. And referee had seen enough. So a big win for Taylor Starling. She's had a big year. She had that crazy fight with Tarissa Star, not Starling, what am I, it's Teresa Sagala.

Taylor's had a very big year. I mean, she's very humble in nature. She's got a very bright future in the sport. And she stole the show in my eyes. And I'm excited to see where BKFC goes from here with Taylor Starling. I think she's somebody that they should be pushing right now. I think they should be pushing Britain heart too.

But I think Taylor's got something. And I think BKFC knows that. add now, but really great trip, still exhausted from it. And I can't wait to cover another one of these BKFC events, because it was just, it was a blast. It was a blast. Thank you to everyone who followed along this week, and we really enjoyed it. So we're going to kick off the interview portion of the show with the one and only Dean Thomas to recap UFC Vegas 32. All right, let us say hello to Dean Thomas doing multiple things here. He's driving and doing an interview at the same time. Just a true man, a true mensch, if you will. One of the best minds.

in the sport of mixed martial arts. He was watching UFC Vegas 32 this past Saturday night, so I wanted to get his thoughts on the festivities. Dean, thank you for doing this, man. How are you? Man, I'm good, man. How are you? I'm doing great.

I'm just multitasking, man. I try to get as much done in a day as I possibly can. But don't worry, I'm not going to be on the road all that dangerous like this. I'm parking right now. So what's up, man? Not too much, man. You know, it's great to have you here.

First off, the event on Saturday had a lot of great fights, some great finishes, some questionable judging, which we'll get into in a moment. But a lot of people feel, Dean, that top to bottom, this was one of the better fight night events the UFC has ever put on. So I wanted to ask you first off, do you feel that way as well? Were you entertained to the max on Saturday? Well, I was entertained to the max, sure.

But it's hard to really say it was one of the better events. Because, I mean, sometimes those events are just really good. You know what I'm saying? So, like, so I wouldn't go that far. some, you know, recently biased. I mean, it was just the other day. So, of course, we're going to be like, yeah, it was the best event ever. But it was a good event.

But I wouldn't go as far as to say it was the best event ever for a fight night. Yeah, I mean, just recently bias is a huge thing in this sport. So I get what you're saying. But let's start with the main event because T.J. Dillishaw returns to action for the first time at over two years, post-suspension, takes on Corey Sanhagen in a fight that probably exceeded the already ridiculously high expectations that it had. heading into it. So in the end, Dillishaw gets the split decision nod before we get into the X's and O's of the fight. How did you score? Did you, did the judges get it right? Did you feel

that San Hagan did enough to win? I felt like San Hagan did enough to win. But, but, you know, T.J, you know, he had his moments. You know what I'm saying? Like, he controlled the fight. Like, he kind of won the game of the fight. I don't necessarily like that because it makes, it makes the sport a little like playing a game. But I, you know, the thing is at the end of the day, like fighting should be about finishing and doing damage. And, you know, I don't think TJ did enough damage or did enough to get close to finishing to have won that fight.

I still think that Corey won that fight, but TJ kind of won the game of the fight. What do you mean by that specifically, like winning the game of the fight? You know, when you talk about, like, scoring points and doing enough to, like, in the eyes of the judges, say that I'm in control, you know, he had his back for quite a bit, you know, from the standing position. And I guess he's winning from there, you know, like he's in a more offensive position, I guess. But it wasn't really doing anything. So, like, it's not to me, that's not really winning a fight to hold that position. But when everything else is even, and it wasn't really even even, but for the amount of time that he had that position, you got to give him some credit for that because he didn't want to be there.

So T.J. was holding him in a position where he didn't want to be, even though he's not doing nothing. He's holding him in a position where he didn't want to be. So I guess you kind of say he's winning that portion of the fight. These are definitely two of the very best fighters and arguably the best division, in the sport right now. I mean, the fight was just plain ridiculous. So what I guess stood out to you the most? Like, what were your biggest takeaways from those 25 minutes? My biggest takeaways is that Corey is the better fighter. You know, Corey's the better fighter. I think more than T.J. winning the fight, Corey kind of lost that fight for himself. I think he gambled on the fact that he

was going to knock T.J. out. So he made some mistakes in terms of some of his decisions and what he was doing in the fight, some of the spinning attacks, and just not keeping it simple and defending a take down in a simple approach. I think if he had fought that fight again and said, you know what, I'm going to fight this fight with a slightly more simple approach and just get my shots off. I think he beats T.J. But in the moment, I think he thought he was going to knock him out. And T.J. capitalized off the bat and said, all right, you're going to try to spin and stuff. I'm going to get you down and take your back and hold you and control the clock for this amount of time. But at the end of the day, I still think Corey is a better fighter than T.J.

But with that said, my second takeaway is that T.J. is still a damn good fighter. He's still a damn good fighter. And I still think he beats a good portion of the Bannamweight. I just don't think he's as good as Corey Sanhagen. Dillishaw gets the win. He wants the title shot. He wants the winner of Sterling versus Jan, too, which has apparently been agreed upon for October 30th. There's certainly an argument, excuse me, to be had for that because he never technically lost the title in the cage. Of course, he's dealing with a nasty cut near his eye, his knee looked to have been a little banged up in the fight. So if timing works out and all is okay on the injury front, do you think that Dillishah should get the winner of that fight and fight for the belt next? Or do you,

do you personally need to see more from him before you're ready to make that decision and throw him into another title fight? No, I don't see, I don't need to see more from him. I think that he's, you know, going out there and regardless of me thinking that Corey Sanhaken's a better fighter, T.J. is still a damn good fighter. He's still, in the eyes of the judges,

won that fight and it still kept it close. I think that he's deserving of a title shot. If, you know, with the winner of Al Jermaine Sterling and Yon and Peter Yon, I think the T.J. deserves that shot.

Sanhaghani, like you said, he's just so damn good, man. And most people felt that he won the fight. and I don't think it was a robbery per se, and his future is still super bright. There's a lot of really fun matches for him, but I guess like one of the things I was thinking about the last couple of days is where does Rob Font now fit into this equation?

Because he's right there in the mix for a title shot. I feel like timing is his worst enemy right now, but how does Rob sort of factor into this thing? Because if TJ gets a title shot, it seems pretty obvious. You just do Sanhagen versus Font next, right? It seems obvious like that, but you know what? maybe you do you know maybe you do i you know i mean it kind of makes sense this is why that's

it's my favorite division you know the bannam weights are my favorite division you know these guys are so good they're so neck and neck and it's going to take a little bit of time for them to clean clean itself out i mean it reminds me of two years ago the the welterweight division where it was just like so many good guys and that's where the bannam weights are right now um but yeah i guess Fott and San Hagan makes sense. I don't, but, you know, yeah, I don't know if Fatt once that fight. You know what I'm saying?

That's a tough, I think that's a tough out for Fott. But Fawt's a tough dude. So, like, you know, he's the down to fight anybody. You know, from that Boston cartel, man, them guys, they don't care about nothing. They'll fight you in the street. I agree with you, 100%. So that was the main event.

That had some controversy with the decision. Certainly was an egregious compared to other things that happened on this main card. Most notably, the co-main event, which is also a Bannonway fight. And then, of course, the Macy Barber versus Miranda Maverick fight, which we'll get into in a moment. But let's start with Haliang Paiva versus Kyler Phillips, because Piva gets the decision when pretty much everybody thought this should have been a draw because of what Phillips did in that first round. It should have been a 10-8 first round for sure for Phillips. And you can even make an argument, a slight one, since it's so rare, maybe even a 10-7 round. I mean, this is one-way traffic the whole way.

10 8's how I had it. I mean, if Pivo was getting 10-9s for winning his round, but Phillips got a 10-9 for that first round, how the hell is that even possible, man? Like, how is this possible? Yeah, and that's something that we need to discuss. But the reality of it is, is because the fighters are suffering from this

and the commission is not suffering from it, the commission's not losing money by screwing fighters. The UFC is not losing money by scoring fighters. The fighters are the ones. who are really suffering from this, from bad judging and bad decisions made by the powers that be. So because of that,

until the UFC's pockets are affected by it or the commission or so is affected by it, we're not going to see a change because only the fighters are suffering. And they're just like, you know what? Who cares? Because you can look at those decisions. You can't take that up with the commission. You try to go to the

commission with that. They're going to rip it up and be like, see you know? The decision is the decision. And that's what I'm going to tell you. But if it affected their pocket, like if they, if they got penalized for making bad decisions like that, we'd see a change in the scoring system and in the judging. But you're right. There's absolutely no way you can say this is a 10-9 and this is a 10, and this is a 10-9 as well based on the effects of those rounds. I mean, it's ridiculous. And, you know, my man got screwed from it. He's going to have to, he's got to wear that L on his record because of that.

Yeah, and it should have been a draw. Like, it sucks having to draw, but it's better than a loss. And, you know, it's, it's crazy for Kyle Phillips. She's supposed to fight Hafeel Al-Senseau and get a top 10 guy. Now he's take a short notice fight with Haleaum Piva and loses a fight that should have been a draw. It's just nuts. It's just crazy how these 10-9s are being compared the same.

It's just absolutely assonime. But I want to get your thoughts on the fight that everybody's talking about in terms of the judging. Macy Barber gets the split decision win over Miranda Maverick. She snaps the two fights getting looked. First off, I had zero issue with the matchmaking here. I know a lot of people did. But in terms of the fight itself and the result,

no disrespect to Macy, Dean, because she has a bright future in the sport for sure. But outside of Macy herself, I didn't see one person, whether it be media, fighter, coach, fan, et cetera. Not one person did I see score that fight for Macy Barber. I assume you are not number two on that list. What did you think of the fight?

the scoring of the fight. Are you comfortable throwing out the word robbery in this case? Yeah, I am. And the reason being is it because I see how hard fighters work in order to do their job and be good at their job. Fighters work damn hard to be good at their job. And when you have something like this happened and it's not in their control and they can't do anything about it, that's a robbery.

That's an absolute robbery. It's like working hard to go to the bank, working hard, getting paid, getting a check, then you go to the bank to deposit it and somebody steals it. That's what happened to her. She worked for months for this fight. She did what she needed to do in order to win, and somebody took that away from her. That's a robbery. Not only just from a W&L standpoint, but from a W&L standpoint, but from a

financial standpoint because these fighters in their contracts they typically get paid double to win and the fact that these judges got that wrong that's a robbery she absolutely got robbed in that fight she fought a hell of a fight and it's a shame of what's happening that does she had to take that hello i think we need to start a uh a go fund meter to give her her money but now but it's a It's an absolute robbery for them to do that to a fighter, you know, to get that wrong. Do you think the, in 2021 at this point, with the UFC and the sport being so well established at this point, is the wind show payout structure? Are we beyond this? Like, is this too old school for us?

Like, I feel like we wouldn't be harping on it this much. I mean, the judge is sure that they have their share of the responsibility in this. They have pretty much all the responsibility in this. but at the same time, if we just improve that payout structure and it's just one flat fee for everybody, you know what you're getting paid, so forth and so on, maybe you can get some bonuses in all those things. I feel like we wouldn't be as upset about this as maybe we would have been, you know, with the old comparing the structures, you know what I mean?

Yeah, and this is something I've been screaming for years. You can go back and check my MySpace page. I've been screaming this for years. We need to get rid of the show and win bonus because the win bonus does. not help you perform better. It doesn't. In fact, it makes you a boring fighter because you're going to do what you have to do in order to win. That's really what it does. I think they need to have one flat fee. Then you get bonuses for finishing, not for winning, but for finishing. I think the whole pay structure comes down to like a tournament style. I think that's really like the principle

of the way we structure to pay is, I think, based on tournaments. Like if you advance in a tournament, you get more money. I think that's when it came down to. It's like, okay, you advance in a tournament, you get more money. You win the tournament, you get more money. But when you're talking about one single fight, you don't need to incentivize a fighter with double the money because that's not going to help them.

It doesn't really help them. It absolutely doesn't help. Fighters want to win regardless. And that doesn't help them. But I think it hurts them in terms of excitement because they're going to do what they have to do in order to win and not be exciting and go for a finish. Everyone keeps saying, we need to fix the judging.

And you had a great idea about, you know, demonetizing bad decisions and bad judging. And in a good amount of cases, I mean, there's so much truth to that. But the big question is, like, in terms of like the infight action and how we actually score these things, like, how do we do it? Like, it's hard. A lot of people say, like, oh, you've got to get the right people in there. Like the knowledge, maybe get some fighters in there. And it's really hard to do because there are, there's not a lot of individuals who is kids

when they write reports on what they want to be when they grow up, they say, you know what, I want to be an MMA judge. I bet there's tons of money in that. Like, who the hell wants that responsibility? Like, no one's writing articles about a judge who scores a fight correctly. Wow. Great scorecard. Great scorecard, Sal DiMato.

It's all about the negative. Like, how in the world can we even fix this, Dean? Like, is it the actual 10-point must system? Is it just putting noise-blocking headphones on? Like, what can be done to improve the judging process within a fight as we know? it. Well, I think the problem is really within a 10-point must system, which I don't necessarily have a problem with if you're more willing to give 10-8 and 10-7 because of the way around is viewed. But when, again, like when you look at that Carla Phillips fight, it's like, that's definitely a 10-8,

could even be a 10-7. You know, and you've got to use that. And not just be like, oh, he went around, so give him a 10-9. Oh, you know what? We can give it 10-8. We can give it 10-7. You know, and you know what? 10-8. Oh, I forgot about that. Because I think that's what happened sometimes. They forget that they can get a 10-7 because there's no way you can look at both of those rounds and say that they were the same. But I think that one thing we have to do, you know, the judges have to do is to really quantify what's important in a fight. You know, like how do you view leg kicks compared to jabs? How important are takedowns really, you know? I don't really even like, Like, how important is our takedowns really?

Well, I mean, what have you done by putting a guy on his back? How close did you get to finishing? You didn't really. So if I'll hit you and I knock you down, or if you take me down, like, how do you score that? We got to really quantify what's important in a fight. And I think that's what comes down to is that we don't have a, we all don't view it the same way. Like, if I'm getting kicked in my leg, like fighters, when they're getting kicked in the leg, sometimes they don't even realize it.

But yet the judges are like, he's getting kicked in a leg. And fighters are not making adjustments because they're not realizing it because they don't realize that they're losing points on it. In fact, I was talking to Pani Kianzad about her fight with, she just had a fight in Vegas a few weeks ago, and the name will come to me in a second.

And she was getting kicked in a leg, and I was asking her. I was like, why didn't you make the adjustment? She said, I didn't even realize I was getting kicked. In the moment, I didn't realize I was getting kicked. So this is what I'm saying. So like they're not really recognizing, but she's losing points because of it, but she's not even realized. So I think that we need to really establish what ways in a fight. And fighters need to understand that going into a fight so that they can make proper adjustments.

And then we can score these fights properly. I mean, if you're Macy Barber, you're going full heel with this, right? Like shut up, you know nothing. I actually 1080ed her in all three rounds. There is no controversy. Jessica, I, where you at? Like, that's exactly what she should be doing, right? No, I think she should shut up and just be like, you know what?

It was a close fight. I didn't, you know, I didn't make myself the winner. The judges saw me as the winner. I'm sorry that it worked out that way. You know, that's all she can say is, hey, listen, it's not my fault. The judges saw me as the one. I put out and fought my fight and they said I was the winner. I'm going home and taking my check.

Fair enough. In terms of the rest of the action, who is your MVP of the card that we have? haven't talked about, yeah. Like, who impressed you the most on Saturday? Oh, wow. I got to pick back. Honestly, this is going to sound really weird, but Miranda Mavrick. Yeah, Miranda Mavrick. I mean, I thought she, like, honestly, because I know how good Macy is and, you know, I know how good Macy is and I know how athletic she is and, you know, how devastating of a fighter she could be. For Miranda Maverick to bully her around the way she did for those first two rounds, I was like, she's, Miranda's really good.

You know, she's a really good fighter. She didn't make a lot of mistakes in that fight. I thought she did what she needed to do. I mean, obviously, Macy came back in that third, but Macy's a good fighter. Like, I don't want to take that away from her. So, like, you're talking about two really good fighters. if I had to give an MVP in that fight, I would say on that entire card,

Miranda Maverick was my MVP in that entire card. I dig it, man. And she lost. And she lost. That's it. That's what she lost. She's my MVP. So the stock still rose,

despite not getting the second half of the paycheck. So there you go. This coming to, I mean, tons of MMA this weekend. The UFC's back. Of course, they're going head-to-head with Bellator and that massive main event between Patricia Pipple and A lot of people are calling Pitbull-McKee the biggest fight in Bellator history.

Do you agree with that? Do you feel like this is the biggest fight in Bellator history? I feel like there's a lot of other fights that aren't even being discussed. Well, in terms of popularity, it's not even close, you know. There's been a lot of big fights in Bellator history. I mean, in terms of popularity, you can talk about Chandler, Alvarez, you know, so like, those fights are just, you know, they've been massive. But I think in terms of like from a square.

perspective. This is a really, this is a pretty big fight. You know, it's just they're not very popular, you know, you know, not a lot of people know them, but from a sport perspective, AJ McKee has been groomed for this moment. I know his father well. He's been groomed for this moment. He's undefeated and he's a savage. And Pitbull is a savage in his own way. Like, I've studied him. He's a guy who barely makes mistakes. He's able to make adjustments in fights. He's a really good fighter. He's adapted to situations of fights. I mean, from a sport perspective, this is a phenomenal fight. And I got to give, you know, Belator credit for being able to make this happen because, like, I think this is what they wanted, you know, like when

you talk about the two top fighters at 145 outside of the UFC, that's them. I mean, they could go into either of these guys are going to UFC and give a run to anybody at 145. So they're really good fighters and this is a big fight but from a public standpoint I don't think it's the biggest fight in military. You got to pick for that fight? I don't. I don't have a pick for that. I mean

it's so hard to say but I guess if I had to pick if I actually had to pick I would say pit bull just you know his experience of being able to make adjustments and fight and we've rarely seen AJ McKee like in trouble so we don't know how he's

going to respond to being in trouble. I mean, he just shut everybody out. He's that good. He shuts everybody out. But, you know, every fighter, their card gets pulled where they have to really step up. This is going to be his time. So it's just

we're going to see how he does when he has to step up. I love that fight. Two last quick things. The Dana White, Effit Friday, parody video you put out was phenomenal, dude. It was so funny. What inspired you to put that together because it was gold, man?

You know, I'm a creative, man. I like to just do creative things. And when I saw Dana do that video in the morning, I said, oh, I'm going to get him. And, like, I had to go to work. I work at a, I do a radio show. And I was like, I can't wait for the show's over because I got to go home and do this video. And, like, I had just been waiting to do that all day to get him. But I was thinking that, I was like, man, I hope Dana don't get pissed off because he's going to fire me.

But apparently he liked it, I suppose. but even if he didn't, I tagged everybody in the company so that everybody can see it. But I don't know, man. I just, I saw it. And nobody really goes at Dana like that. So I had to go at him. It's good. So he never responded and said anything to you about it?

No, he, he posted on it and just gave me the finger. But I mean, I was actually waiting for a phone call from him, be like, yo, take it down. And it never came. So I was like, all right, it's cool. Last thing. Brennan Allen got a big win over Punisoriano. Great, great performance from him. The guy just keeps getting better and better.

Why does he owe you $3? He actually doesn't know me $3. He's a good buddy of mine. He's a good buddy. I like Brandon Allen. I've known him for a long time. He's a Louisiana boy. He used to train with a good buddy of my, Rich Clemente.

And, you know, Brian, we hung out in Milwaukee. And now he's down here in South Florida. So I've seen him all the time. I'd like to give him a hard time. Hell of a fighter. Got a bright future ahead of him, so I've got to give him a hard time. No one really understands, like how young he is. Because he looks like he's 38 years old, but he's like, what's he?

25, 26, not even. Something like that. He's a, he's a kid, man. He's just, he's a young kid. But he's got a lot, he's got a lot of potential, a lot of potential. I agree. Dean, you are the man. I will let you go off to whatever you got to be doing in the vehicle.

But it's crazy. Hey, you have 90 minutes ago to jump on and do this. You did not disappoint. I appreciate it very much, sir. And when are you back on the broadcast? I'm on this weekend. So you'll see me this weekend. I'll be doing a free show and a post show this weekend.

Strickland and Hall. That's going to be fireworks. And I can't wait to do that. There is Dean Thomas providing a, I mean, no surprise here, a lot of excellent insights, analysis, and a lot of truth, if we're being honest. And I thank you for jumping on as you get ready to wrap up. Another edition here on what the heck, like I said,

a little bit of an abbreviated version, just schedules and all sorts of craziness. I definitely wanted to give you a show. And Dean, big part of it, of course, a lot going on here and in the world of MMA in combat sports. But we will be at Bellator 63, the Fight Week festivities, so fall along with us throughout the week. We'll have some more interviews and other things coming up as well

that relates to that card, the UFC card, and just fight sports in general. BTL will be back on Thursday as well. First time we've missed BTL. in, I don't know, 60-something weeks. So we had to miss it. Just too much going on last week. But we will be back with a very special edition this coming Thursday.

So we're just getting started this week here on MAAFighting.com. The ASEI will be back as well. Big thank you to you guys and gals for watching the program. Big thanks to Casey Lydon on the production. Alex and Jose on the graphics and the social media stuff. Have a heck of week, everybody. And by the way, if you haven't seen on M.A. Fighting already, we already confirmed it.

The rematch is happening in November. 6th is what I'm being told by multiple people. UFC 268, Kamara Usen versus Colby Covington 2. So get excited for that. And one individual who wants to fight on that card, it's not official at MSG, but that seems to be where we're heading.

Madison Square Garden on November 6th, UFC 268. And after this man's performance is past Saturday, he wants to be a part of that card as well. Have a week, heck, yeah, excuse me, have a heck of week, everybody. Oh, what a week. And enjoy my conversation with one of the week winners from this past Saturday night, Mickey Gall.

All right, let us say a little to Mickey Gall who returned to action after around 13 or so months away. And man, did he deliver? He overwhelms and stops a very tough, a usually very durable Jordan Williams submitting him in the first round. Mickey, good to see you, man. Congratulations. How are you? Doing great, bro. How are you? I'm doing great. Thank you for doing this, especially just 48 hours and so after the win. What a performance, man. A lot of people feel that this was the very best performance of your career. Do you agree with that sentiment? Oh, I guess so. Yeah. Yeah, I, you know, this is good, you know, get to do everything, drop the guy, put a couple of, you know,

a couple of guillotine on them, rock him again, and then it rolled them out, get the back, choke him out. You know, it was clean. It was a clean performance for sure. And yeah, like you said, man, I knew, you know, Jordan Williams, he's a really tough guy, man, you know, nine wins seven by knockout. And yeah, he's durable as heck. He was up to 85 taking, you know, hard, hard shots and not, he didn't get dropped his whole last fight. You know, I did have a feeling maybe coming down to 70 might be,

might make that chin a little more durable, but I didn't plan for it. I didn't plan for it. I expected, you know, the durable dude. I think he is durable. I think it's just how hard I hit, you know. Why were you kind of hesitant in saying that that was the best performance of your career? You said, I guess so. I'm kind of curious to your mentality behind that.

I watched it. It was just, you know, I always feel like I could do even more. You know what I mean? Like, after I dropped him the first time, I probably could have ground and pounded them a little more, dropped some elbows or something. Like, that was a big shot. And he was definitely rocked and I knew it.

But I was looking more past than he got up, and I grabbed the guillotine. I didn't throw the leg over the back like at all. just let them, like I roll out. Like, it was, it was, like, I slapped on a, like, not a, like, it was a good high elbow. The upper body did great, but my lower body didn't do exactly what I'm supposed to do technically. Like, I got, you know, as a jihitsu black felt, like, under David Adi, like, I know what's right and what's wrong. And I watched like, it against.

And I'm like, whoa, like, it wasn't that good. Like, I should have, I could have probably finished them there. But it was good. I was happy. I got more time to go and, you know, strike. And I just, it felt great, man. And obviously the wind felt the best, but like the, just like being in there felt great. Like, you know, seeing everything.

He hit me a couple times. And I was just like, nah, that's not going to do it. Like, I can take those all day. Like, I'm not worried about. So I remember feeling that in there, which, which is like nice. And, you know, everything just comes. When I first started, like, like, even when I fought, you know, my first, like four UFC fights, like, I was not that comfortable on my feet.

Like, I, you know, I was very comfortable in the practice room, but then when it's, like, and there's a little different. And that's, like, that's changed, that's made a complete 180. Like, I'm so comfortable there now. And I've been comfortable there probably since, like, the George Sullivan fight. But that means, you know, like, you know, Mike Jackson, Sam Punk, Sage, and, like, the Randy Brown fight. Like, all those, I was not very comfortable on my feet. I didn't have so much of a clue. but now I like I just it's it's completely different I'm you know and even then like I was working

towards this but now it's just I'm I'm so comfortable I'm at home I'm at home you know what I mean it's it's it's great yeah it's funny you say that because I remember like those past interviews we used to do when you first got into the UFC and after those like first couple of wins you were you always said like I can't wait to show off my improved striking and you know it just seemed like you never really got the chance to do that George you got to a little bit but from there like this is the time you really got to show it more and more. So that must have felt just great being able to just show everybody. You know what I mean?

Like you must have just felt amazing just being able to show some of the things. It was even better just being able just for me, just how I felt. Not so much just showing it to people, just feeling it. Because that's just that's, you know what I mean? Like I have that whatever people saw or think. Cool. But like I just know like it's, you know, I felt comfortable in the last one with Perry. and, you know, the ones before, like, I'd say, like, the George Sullivan one, that's where I first,

and I got to credit Joe Schilling and, like, eat better at that, because I was around time, I started working with them, and they helped me so much. And, but I'm, like, even the George Sullivan, I landed, like, two punches and a kick, and then, you know, I took them down. So, you know, the, this one, like, it was nice. You know what I mean? I just, they're just comfortable. It's just so comfortable.

Last year, we're dealing with the pandemic, still are to some degree. But, you know, you talked about the fight with Mike Perry, didn't go your way. You were supposed to fight Miguel Baez in September. You were forced to withdraw from that one. A pretty tough 2020 for you overall when it comes to Mickey Gall, the fighter. But I guess what were you able to take away from 2020? You know, the loss, the time away, et cetera, that got you so ready mentally for this fight with Jordan. bro you know and that wasn't even the

I had so much adversity in this camp like after having to pull out of the Baiza fight you know first time I ever had to pull out hopefully it's the last not wood um they got my my I was hurt I was hurt bad like I should not have fought then made the right decision

but I had like that type that the injury from then started like showing little things again So I had to get, like, I had to get shots in my back months ago, and I had to get shots of my back in this camp, take a few days off for that. I had to take a week off in this camp because of my, a different injury I had.

And, you know, that's all you want to do is train and you feel great. And I'm, you know, waking up early, ready, you know, like I said, William's not, nine wins, seven knockouts. I better be training and then come and correct, you know, terrible dude. So it was tough, but we've made a great late push. Like we did no taper.

There's no tape, usually taper like two weeks out. The past like three weeks, including even like the last week in Vegas, like we, especially in the last one in Jersey week before, we were going balls out to the wall hard. That was peak camp. And I think it, you know, helping me peak at the right time. But yeah, my team really uplifted me. Like L.J. Roboli had just, who will, is a future UFC guy. Like, no doubt.

Why future champ, you know, can't say. enough good things about him. He got his win on the regional scene. He'd be doing like a minute and then was spending six hours in the gym with me. Plus like the person, private lessons he teaches and all this stuff. Like he's so, he's not only like the skills of like a champion, but he's got like the character of a champion. And he's, it's so weird how he's just as good of a coach. If not, like he's just as good as he's as a fighter as a coach. It's, it's unbelievable. And he's the youngest one of the, like on the team in the corner was LJR Bull. He's 26. and then, you know, there's me.

So I think I'm in a great place. I got Matt Brown. It's like the player coach, you know, a little older me more experience, legend. And then I have David Adiv who is the wise man who's just been by my side from the beginning. And, you know, that whole team just got together. You know, everyone clicked.

Everyone's on the same page. Everyone's having great times laughing and joking, you know, all week. And that's just what you want. You know, you want it like that. No bullshit. It's just all love. Did it get to, did it get close to you having to, to pull the plug on this fight?

Like, was the pain that bad? I wouldn't do it. Definitely, like, but I couldn't do it. I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't do it. There was no way. It was definitely not an ideal. There's a lot of things that were not ideal.

But it was, I couldn't pull out of two fights in a row. You know what I mean? I couldn't, you can't apply your first fight and then pull out of you. Like, what are we just going to keep on? You know what I mean? Like, I couldn't do it. I could not do it. I had to go.

had to get there and like my my team really like uplifted me like you know there are times where I was just like always in the past like you have a fight in your whole life like you have your purpose everything makes sense that you're like I'm a fighter I'm in their fight camp this is what I'm supposed to do everything's perfect you know what I mean yeah we're working hard but now it's like I wasn't like it just wasn't as fun I wasn't having fun I was I was miserable for the past month I was like you know I was constantly tired sore and pain for like like like like like you know I was constantly tired sore and pain I was miserable, man. I was annoyed.

I was, I was, like, pissed off, you know. And my team just, they were just so great. They, they, you know, it really is a team sport. And I'm so fortunate to have such good people around me. You learned, obviously, about Jordan along the way. And you saw his record and you saw how tough and durable he was. Did you know much about him when the initial offer came? Like, was he a guy that was even on your radar, considering he was an 85er for a good stretch of his career?

No, they said the name, I had to look them up. And they're like, we got this guy for you. Or you can wait. I was like, darn, let's fight. You know what I mean? Of course, I need to fight. I've been trying to fight get back since, like, the spring. You know, that's when my body was finally feeling better.

Actually, yeah, yeah, that's when in the winter I started to, like, turn a corner. And spring, I was ready to, you know, take a UFC fight again. And, yeah, I didn't know what's about him, but I looked him up. And when I looked them up, I was like, fuck. Like, it ain't a fucking easy or, like, fun fight. Like, this is going to be a grind. This is going to be, I expected, you know, be ball busted up today and limping and whatever. But, you know, I knew I'd get the win.

Yeah, he's so tough. Like, he's a South ball. You got to do with things different. Like, there's just so, there's like a, there's a lot of crap along with it. You know, when I looked into him, I was just impressed with the guy that he is and stuff he's overcame. and, you know, he's a good dude, and, you know, I was just ready to, you know, just go there and be a warrior. Was that the first fight you were offered along the way, or did they offer you other things and you just couldn't take him because you were? Oh, no kidding.

I was the only fight for first and only. Yeah. First and only fight I was offered. And let's be honest, I've been, I've been spoiled to a degree with some big fun fights. You know, I came in the UFC and I had Mike Jackson and I had CM Punk and I had staged Northcut. You know what I mean? like it's, I've had, you know, and then, you know, I just so many, just Perry, Diego, all these fights are big huge names, big fights, condit, I was supposed to fight. So it was like, you know, it was different. It was like a guy, yeah, I didn't know, I didn't know of, but I knew he was tougher than hell, you know? It's like, it was, so like, you could, like, you could stay, like, big risk, bigger risk, little reward because it's not as many people know them. If, you know, if you lose to, as like, you know, you lost some people don't even know it's whatever you know it's not just whatever but uh you know

know i know that motherfucker made me you know get up and work and you know put put some fear into me that you know i had to come correct and uh yeah we got it done so it's it's great to just you know be on this side of it with what sort of that like outsider perspective on people really not knowing who jordan was i mean you have essentially grown up in the ufc as a professional fighter you're 29 years of age, you're just not reaching your athletic prime. And, you know, losing to a guy like Jordan Williams could put you in a tough spot from the company's point of view. So did you have any extra pressure heading into this fight? Yeah, I mean, you always got a pressure on yourself.

You never want to get your ass kicked on TV. You always want to, you know, win. I got family and friends and little baby sisters who watch the fights and, you know, crying even though I won and stuff. Like, it's, yeah, there's always a lot of pressure. but I just got to, you know, I turn the noise down on that and I just got to go in there and just be me. If I got my eyes and my body, like I can beat anybody. You know what I mean?

I'm good. Like I can, but yeah, you can, all that stuff can get to you and, you know, bother you and distract. So it's just trying to keep it, you know, keep it simple. And I, yeah, we made it work, man. I was in, I was in a lot of pain this camp. I was in a lot of pain. The physical pain and then, you know, just a frustration,

from the physical pain and not being able to do things. Like, there's so many things I was limited on. And, uh, yeah, I know my, I'll be even better the next time. I get to take like a week or two off, go chill down the shore. And, you know, I know I'll be even better the next time. And looking, you know, looking like it'll probably be November, Madison Square Garden. Uh, who knows, that's what, you know, I quickly talk to Sean Shelby in the hallway. Um, that, you know, I'd be great right in my backyard.

And, um, you know, I know I'll be even. better now. It's only going to get better. I've, you know, I've known, like you said, growing up in the UFC, like we're going to, I've known all my growing pains are going to be shown to the world and people are going to judge me off them and people probably will probably look at me at the kid who came in and, you know, didn't have the striking. It was, you know, was a 24-year-old kid and whatever. I'm not. I've been, I've been, I've been, had that opportunity to train with, you know, best people in the world. I've, you know, taken it very seriously and it's paying off and it's going to continue to pay off.

Like, you know, the top guys in my division are like six, seven years older than me. You know what I mean? They have a lot more fights and a lot more experience and I'm getting that all on the job. So I'm just trying to stay active like I've been doing. Obviously this year wasn't ideal for being active when you get hurt. It's hard to be, you know, but we're going to be active. We're going to get after. And, you know, I really think it's going to be a real cool story at the end.

And, you know, it's championship or bust for me. So, you know, when I get that belt, that's going to make a real cool story. one of a kid who came in and a fight the wrestler. You know, you get to see everything. You got to get to see my whole career in front of the spotlight. You know, and it's going to have a really cool finish, I'm sure. Did I see that you were at a First Communion and you saw it called to test you? Yeah.

I was at my little baby sister, Ryland's first communion. I'm getting my, I'm getting calls in my pocket, my phone's during my phone's room. Look, I don't recognize the number. I put it down. like I'm getting a little like annoyed. And then I step out at the church. I'm like, like I call this person back and be like, hello. Like what, what do you do?

Like blowing me up and like, hey, Mickey, it's your sad. I was, oh, oh, okay. So they came and met me at the communion party back in my dad's house and, you know, P-Tested me and I had to do all the stuff and the Rilin is out there in a communion dress offering him drinks and stuff. It was cute. That was test 25, right? was that 20 that was the 25th?

That was 10.25 and so I'm at like 26, 27 now. Yeah, look at you. We really did grow up in the UFC. So you mentioned MSG. November seems to make sense. Carlos Condit was a name that came to mind. And of course, you were supposed to fight him in December of 2019 on that DC card. He gets injured.

The fight was scrapped. And I felt the concept makes a ton of sense for sure. Now there's even more of a built-in storyline with Matt Brown being part of the team. he's the player coach for you and, you know, he had that fun scrap with Condon in January. Do you talk to Sean? Do you feel that he and the UFC feels the same way you and I do, that this is the direction everybody should go after Saturday? I have no idea.

And to be honest, it is saying, bring up, like, I didn't have a name in my head. This is like the first time, first fight where I don't have a name, you know. So it was, I, it was. I guess it's kind of like an old habit to die hard. Like they're at that thing someone brought it up. I was like, you know what? Like I was supposed to find condo. Like I wouldn't kind of sit in my car.

It wouldn't, if there was someone who you looked up to as a kid that you were supposed to interview and then they get sick and hurt and can't interview, still want to do that interview. You know what I'm saying? Hell yeah. I still want to do that fight. You know, I looked up to condo as a kid. I, uh, I, uh, you know, and I was supposed to fight them.

So it kind of sits in my craw a little bit. But at the same time, I'd, I'd rather fight it. I'll fight, you know, I'd rather fight anyone than not fight in the next couple months. So if it's kind of cool, big name, legend, former champ, you know, former interim champion champ, champ, yeah, I would love it. But otherwise, whatever, whoever, you know what I mean? I just got to stay active. The more I fight, you know, when I lose the draw, I'm going to get better every time.

And, you know, I plan on rattling off some wins, getting both my checks, you know, keeping things going. was it like refreshing to not have a name to call out like not have to worry about that um i guess it kind of was like it it was more just like almost like circumstantial like i just just needed to i just need to get to get this freaking win you know i mean my i didn't have the time i was every my every other waking moment was i was icing stuff and trying to recuperate and heal and do stuff like that like i didn't have time to think about i didn't have time to think about think about what I was going to say in my post fight, like in the past, you think about, like, maybe, you know, you got an idea what you want to say to kind of make things happen, use your

moment. I didn't think about none of that. I was thinking about just getting in there and fighting and getting my win and just, you know, I was ready to die before I lose. You know, Roy's up about to walk out. I was like, I'm not going back to that hotel, loser. I'm not coming back to New Jersey, a loser. I would, you know, I would have rather die than do that. So if that was what it was going to be, he needed to, he would have needed to put me unconscious and put me out, out bad because I was going to be fighting until the end. And I love that feeling.

That's what, you know, that's what I'm ready to fight. And, you know, I was right there. I was right there. Just see, you know, kill or be killed. And that's, that's a drug I'm hooked to, that feeling. It's scary, you know what I mean? It's like, it's, because it's, it's, it is, like, scary in the way that, you know, scary, like, it's scary.

like it's scary like you know but i i i i mean it and you know it was sincere and i i was just ready to do it whatever it took yeah i i feel like these last five years i think you've handled it very well like you you did what any other 24 year old would try to do you try to make a name for yourself you try to get up there as fast as possible it's been championship or bus for you but i feel like you've learned really good lessons along the way i feel like we're finally we're starting to see a wiser mature uh student of the game like you're You've always been a student of the game, but I feel like some of the, you know, the callouts and some of those things. I don't know if they weighed you down, but I feel like your focus and

everything's just kind of coming in at the right time. Like, everything's clicking perfectly for you. Do you feel the same way? Like, do you feel like these lessons you learn in five years, like you're just putting small deposits in the bank and now we're ready to, to purchase a mansion, so to speak? Absolutely. Absolutely. Even though that was only my 10th pro fight, when usually people don't get signed to the UFC till after they have 10th pro. fights. I was only my 10th pro fight, but I feel like a veteran. I felt Jordan Williams had more fights than me, but I knew I was the veteran in there. You know what I mean? That's my, I was my ninth UFC fight in the UFC cage. You know what I mean? So although I'm young still, I'm, you know, still I'm in my

20s and I'm, you know, but I still, I feel like a veteran. I feel like a veteran in ways, even though I know I'm, you know, I still got a lot to learn and all that stuff, but I have some, I've vet experience and uh you know um you know it it helps it's a nice thing to have to have you know what i mean it definitely helps like you said yeah i've learned a lot of you know uh felt like the man i've been humbled i've had a lot of you know things happen just growing up as a fucking human being you know what i mean like all that stuff and it it uh it just feels real good right now uh have you been impressed with Condit? I mean, obviously you wanted that fight, but, you know, he's been pretty active, three fights

in nine months. He's been staying busy. He lost a pretty entertaining fight with Max Griffin earlier this month. What have you sort of made of his showing since he came back after the long layoff? Man, I, uh, yeah, he definitely impressed me in the, in, in the fight with Brown. Like, he pulled out a couple moves that, um, and he just, he doesn't stop moving. That dude, you know, they call him the natural born killer. is a natural born killer and he fights to the end

and there's no, Carl's Khan is not laying down for anybody. You know what I mean? He's fighting until the end. He's fighting every position, every second the whole time. He's just, he's a fighter. He's a fighter as true as you can get.

So, yeah, I was impressed him. I also know I can do some bad shit to him and put him in some really bad spots and beat him everywhere. So, you know, I think it's a good fight for me to step my, career up. You know what I mean?

Like I know I could beat his ass on the feet. I don't know he beats his ass on the ground in the wrestling. Wherever it goes, I feel like I'll be able to dominate. So, you know, like I said, my next performance is going to be my best one.

And then the one after that, you know what I mean? So I like the fight for me. I liked it for me a year and a half ago. And, you know, I like it now. Can I ask you what the significance of the number 22 is? Because I know that that number

comes up a lot. You post about it. Your sister, Jamie, and kudos to her. I got it. Yeah. What's the significance of that number? All right. This might sound kind of corny, but whatever.

Me and my sister are both born on the 22nd. I'm January 22nd. She's September 22nd. And then like throughout the day, like I was all sports growing up. We always wore number 22. I was just like, that was our thing.

And like throughout the day, my dad, we have a group childhood. Me and my sister, my dad will tech, like, at 922, he'll text us, you know, 22. And like, I see 22s everywhere last yesterday, getting on my flight. It was 922 in Vegas and it was boarding at 1122.

Like, I just, it's like a good vibe sign to me. And they're like, I've, I haven't really looked into it, but there's a lot of big things with, like, with that number. There's like, there's something, there's something to it. So yeah, I, like, I'll see the clock, I'll see the clock five times today and four of them. It's going to be on 20. just when I randomly look, it just happens.

You know what I mean? Just good vibes. And 2022 is coming up soon. So I think there's going to definitely be some big shit happening in next year. You know what I mean? I know. I know. I know.

Wow. That's crazy, man. That's crazy how the 22 is just kind of floating out there and you just see it everywhere. Real quick, I know your sister Jamie, she's been an inspiration for a lot of people right now. I saw her post. She celebrated, I believe it was seven years of sobriety. And it seems like she's come back. from a lot, man.

Like, how much of an inspiration has she been to you? Just not only overcoming that, but I know she's helped you along the way and a lot of other ways as well. Couldn't even put a dent in how much she's helped me, like with my career and just making everything easier and helpful and just great. But yeah, like, she's my little sister, but she's like a big sister made a lot of ways. Like she's a, she's a boss. She's a fucking boss.

And she, she's a, like, she's a gangster, man. Like she was, unfortunately, her gangster ways led her into some, some hard times and some problems. But now she has that stuff harnessed. You know, and she's using it for good. And it's, it's so inspiring. I'm happy and I'm happy to, you know, like, she was talking the other day. Like, she thinks like, like, people would hit her up after him. Like, a lot of people obviously give, like, but some people would be like, hey, I hope that didn't bother you that he, like, flew up your anonymity.

You know what I mean? Because you're supposed to be like some, like, anonymity. the, um, that community. And she's like, no, fuck that. Like, I think an anonymity like keeps people, you know, like ashamed and hiding and stuff. Like, I'm, I'm, I'm proud to be seven years. And I'm so proud of her, you know, being seven years. Because about that, she's not here. She's dead in jail. Or probably dead. You know what I mean? Like, there's many times in my life, like, when I was first, like, as my fighting was like therapy for me. Because like, when I was, like, first get into it. Like, that's when she's having a lot of her problems. And, uh, like, there were times

where I was like, the next time, like, I hold my sister's hand, it's going to be cold at her funeral, you know? And like, that's my baby sister. Like, it's, it's, it's scary. And it's, I, like, like how I said, it's the happiest thing my life. It is. It's, it's, it's, it's, because without that, like, seven years sobriety, I don't have my sister. I don't have my best friend. I don't have any of that. Um, so yeah, it's, uh, it, um, I'm, and, and, um, um, and, I'm, and, and, I'm, and, and, I'm, and, I'm, And we, I hope we can help people. Because I know we're on the family side, they got Al-Anon and all that stuff. And those meetings weren't for me.

But it's a real helpless, tough thing when a person you know and love becomes a fucking, they're an alien, there's zombies. There's somebody don't know when they're in the, it's stuck in that addiction because it's crazy. It just takes over the body and their brain. So, you know, we're always, you know, trying to help too and spread awareness and stuff. And I just know, and it's not easy by any means, but I know, I think addicts are like the strongest people there are.

You know what I mean? They're super capable and super strong. And when they get clean, they're a fucking force to be reckoned with. You don't want to go against one of those motherfuckers. They're tough. They're tough here, you know. It's very impressive stuff. Well said.

Great for her. Great for you as well to go in there and get a big win after a year away. And congratulations with it. Enjoy it. All the best to you in getting on that MSG car, whether it's against Carlos Condit or any welterweight who's ready to put put penit. to paper, my man. So enjoy it. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.