MMA Fighting - What the Heck: Episode 70 | Mads Burnell, Taylor Starling, Alex Perez & Casey Kenney

Episode Date: August 3, 2021

This week on What the Heck, MMA Fighting's Mike Heck speaks with Mads Burnell (8:15) to recap his Bellator 263 win over Emmanuel Sanchez in the co-main event. BKFC's Taylor Starling (24:34) talks her recent win over Cassie Robb at BKFC 19, her career journey, and feeling she's in the conversation to become the promotion's first women's champion. Alex Perez (1:03:39) previews his Aug. 28 UFC flyweight matchup with Matt Schnell and what he took away from his loss to Devieson Figueiredo at UFC 255. Finally, Casey Kenney (1:34:36) discusses his upcoming matchup with Song Yadong at UFC 265 this Saturday and feeling he won two rounds against Dominick Cruz at UFC 259. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. What the Heck with Mike Heck on MMAfighting.com. Now here is your host, Mike Heck. What the heck? Well, hello there, everybody. Welcome to a brand new edition of What the Heck here on MMAfighting.com. I am Mike Heck. Hope you guys are having a great first week of August.

I cannot believe it is already August. And if you live in the Northeast, especially if you live in Massachusetts, it's like we haven't even had a summer. It's just been pouring rain. I think we got almost 30 inches of rain in July. And I'm not even joking. Like more rain dropped this past month than I think ever in the history of the town that I live in. It's just absolutely insane. And in the last few days, it's felt like September.

So it's like we didn't get a summer at all. We had like three hot days, a whole bunch of rain in July. And now it's like 75 degrees, which I'm not complaining. September weather, early fall weather. That's my jam. And it feels great. But it's just weird. There really hasn't been four seasons here in Massachusetts,

but you don't care about that. You're here to talk about combat sports, mixed martial arts. What a busy weekend we had in MMA this past weekend. Of course, Saturday especially was just full of entertainment. I mean, the UFC card, UFC Vegas 33, it seemed like kept falling apart. We were losing fights day after day. Even on the day of the event, we lost one fight.

Then we lost two fights. Then we got a fight back, which like never happens. and we ended up getting a very entertaining card capped up by Sean Strickland's dominant decision win over your eye haul in the main event at 185 pounds. I mean, Sean Strickland, time to start taking this man seriously. I'm not ready to throw him into the title picture just yet, but he's getting there, man.

He's a guy that's on the cusp, no doubt about he's an entertaining fighter has headline worthy quotes before and after fights, and he's just kind of a madman. He's one of those unique fighters where you know exactly where he's going to go, you know exactly what he's going to do, but you can't stop it.

Like no one has been able to stop it over his last five fights. It's just been a remarkable, just run that he's been on, and his run at middleway is just sensational. 19 and 0 is 185 pounder. He's won five in a row, four of those at 180,

excuse me, 185 pounds. and he's off to the races. I would like to see him fight Luke Rockhold next. I think that's a good name, a good test. I think it does more for him than maybe a Jack Hermanson. Jack's a fine fighter, but I think Luke has the bigger name. I think you get more of a rub fighting Luke Rockhold and getting a win over Luke Rockhold than you would a Jack or Manson.

But we'll see. I'm excited to see what is next for Sean Strickland. Interested to see what happens with Uri Haul. I know he posted that he's going to be back. I don't know, man. He's in a tough spot right now. If he just really enjoys fighting and getting into fights and making some money good on him,

unfortunately, unless he just goes on this Bisbing-esque, save the day kind of tour and get some of these fights, steps in last minute and get some big wins. I don't know. I think the championship door has closed for your eye haul. And it happens in the sport. highest of highs, lowest the lows. I think he's somewhere in the middle, and that's fine.

You know, you could still be, you know, a top 15 guy and make a great living doing that. So good for Sean Strickland, big win for him, biggest of his career, no doubt about it. And then, of course, Bellator 263, that was a fun event. We'll talk about that on the program. But A.J. McKee is becoming not just a Bellator star. He's becoming an MMA star. This guy is crossing over in a big way. just his walkout to nothing but a G thing, the crowd, how everybody reacted to him.

Like it was a goosebumps-like feeling that just sort of took over everybody. And then he walked to that cage on Saturday night for his big fight with Patricio Pitbull, the finale of the Featherweight Grand Prix that has been built up so perfectly. The fight we all wanted to see from day one happened, and AJ McKee delivers, man. He hurts Patricia Pitbull with that head kick. thinks he knocked him out, celebrates early, Patricio gets up, he just strangles him, and that's it. Fight is over, new featherweight champion,

newest millionaire, and you know he's going right up to 155 to fight Pitbull again for the lightweight title. When that's going to happen, I'm not really sure, but what a moment it was for AJ McKee and a huge moment for Bellator MMA, because a lot of doors can open. And I think Patricia Pitbull, a plus form in terms of how he,

he's handled the loss. He handled it with grace, handled it with class, said the right things, and then he let Captain Eric Albirecine sort of cut the little bit of a heel problem. And he's not wrong. He's not wrong.

Why does a champion, the longest rating champion in history, most title defenses in the company's history, why is this fight, this huge, huge promotional changing main event taking place in the Challenger's hometown? I get where he's coming from,

but I also understand that there's really no other place where it would have felt as big. So yeah, the story building up to the lightweight title flight is going to be super interesting. Gradually, Staging McKee, we broke down the entire card on our post-fight show. So go back and check that out in the archives, whether it's on YouTube or in the podcast section,

wherever you find your favorite podcast. And we talked more UFC Vegas 33, myself and AK on to the next one you can find that wherever you find your favorite podcast. So we're going to get right into this thing. For guests this week, There's going to be a lot more fun interviews coming up throughout the week as we are officially on the road to UFC 265.

We will talk about that event later on in the program as well. In fact, that's how we're going to end the show this week. Casey Kenny is going to join us. He is back in action kicking off the main card against Song Yadong in Houston, Texas. UFC 265. Of course, that one is headline by the interim heavyweight title fight between Derek Lewis and Cyril Gone. Casey Kennedy joins us to break down that fight.

Talk about the Dominic Cruz loss and what he took away from that. And so much more. Always great having Casey Kenny on the show. He's very close to being another interesting player in this already loaded 135-pound division. We'll talk to Alex Perez, UFC flyweight. A lot of mix-ups going on for him. He was actually supposed to fight this past Saturday

against Asker-A-Scaroff. That fight is no longer happening. So now on August 28th, Alex Perez is going to fight Matt Schnell. It should be a great fight. Of course, this will be the first fight for Alex Perez since he was submitted in his first chance to become a UFC flyway champion against Davis at Figuero and November. Always great catching up with Alex Perez.

Taylor Starling, one of the big stars from BKFC 19, had a short and sweet interview after she finished Cassie Rob in 28 seconds at BKFC 19 backstage. But a lot of people have been hitting me up saying that they want to know more about her. They want to know more about the journey and how she's gotten to where, to the place she's gotten to. And we're going to talk about that a long, long form interview with one of the the bigger stars, at least up-and-coming stars for BKFC.

I really think BKFC should just strap the rocket ships to her and just let her go. But really good stuff from Taylor Starling. You'll hear that coming up in around 20 minutes or so. But first, we're going to kick things off with one of the big winners from Bellator 263 this past Saturday. All eyes are on the main event, no doubt about that. But I think the eyes of the hardcore MMA fans were on the Coal Main event. Emmanuel Sanchez took on Mads-Bernel. What a fight it was.

it was everything I hoped it would be. In the end, Mads Bernel picks up a huge win. The seventh consecutive victory since parting ways with the UFC, the man is on a tear, and he's about to hop on an airplane before we started this conversation. So let us hear from Mads Burnell kicking us off right now on what the heck. All right, the Bellator M.A. Featherweight division was at the forefront on Saturday night during Bellator 263.

And before AJ McKee delivered one of the best finishes of the year so far, This man picked up a hard-fought victory in one of the very best fights of the year, in my opinion, defeats Emmanuel Sanchez v. Unanimous Decision in the co-made event at the forum. Let us say hello to be soon to be jumping on an airplane, Mads Bernal. Mads, how are you, sir? I'm good. Thank you. It's good to have you here, man. Seven wins in a row now for you. And Emmanuel Sanchez is a very tough out. The losses for that man do not happen often. But when they do, they're against guys who are at the top of their games, the top of their division. So how does it feel a few days later? after picking up a win on such a big card against the guy as tough as Emmanuel Sanchez. Of course, it's super cool. It was a cool match, a fun match too, I think, being in.

How much fun did you have in there? Like normally when you fight a guy like that who's just so fast-paced, everyone knew that the scrambles are going to be crazy between the two of you guys. Like on a scale of 1 to 10, like how much fun did you have in there? Like 9 or something. Nine or something. Yeah, because what I feel like, he was thrown. a lot of volume, right?

But I was seeing all that shit. So he was just hitting me in my guard on my shoulders. So I was just walking him down, boom, boom, boom. And then like trying to counter him. Of course, some of them sneak through, but like the majority of it, it was just smoke.

They were hitting my guard. So it was like being in the gym, kind of. But I was really impressed by, but it's like, I feel like, ah, now I'm tiring him because I was putting a lot of pressure on him. I was actually putting pressure on him that he usually do to people, right? was walking him down and going to the body and all that.

So I was like, okay, now he's slowing down. And then it felt like he was slowing down. And then all of a sudden, the dude, he gets freaking gas from, I don't know where. And then he keeps going and get like, what the hell is wrong with this dude? It's been pretty amazing to watch what you've done the last few years because, you know, there are fighters once they make it to the UFC. They feel like they've made it. And if it doesn't work out, fans sort of react like, well, that's it.

They're done. It doesn't get any better than that. But since them, you're, I mean, you're better than ever. 7 and 0, including Cage Warriors, what you've done in Bellator so far. Like, would you say much change for you since parting ways with the UFC? Did it give you a boost in motivation? Like, how would you describe it? Yes, it gave me a boost in motivation, but it also gave me a boost in my maturity and

how to, like, do stuff. Yeah. That I would say it matured me a lot. How so? Like specifically. Like mentally. I think mentally it matured me a lot. Like being in the UFC, you feel like, oh, it was cool.

I'm the youngest day and ever being signed to UFC. I think I was actually one of the youngest in UFC at the time and then getting kicked out. It was like, oh, shit. You get my shit together. And I got my shit together. And I'm very happy for everything that happened because I'm very, very happy to call Belito my home. I think the fight between you and Sanchez was kind of like a hardcore fan's delight heading in. Like, were you seeing the build, like, to the fight?

Because there was a lot of excitement around your fight, even though the main event was the main event, everybody was talking about that. There was a lot of people talking about your fight with the manuals being like a potential barn burger. Were you seeing that attention on social media and such? Yeah, yeah, I feel that. And, like, I feel like Sanchez, he is kind of a MMA version of Arturo Gatti.

Like, you know, whenever he goes in there, he can't be in a boring fight. It was a very, yeah. I mean, it was a very close fight. The scores were all over the place on Twitter land. How are you feeling afterwards? Like, were you confident you were getting your hand raised after that final horn rang? Yeah. I was super confident.

The only thing I thought was like, like, if the judges can see, like, because my defense is very subtle, you need to be educated to understand my defense. You need to be educated in boxing to understand my defense. If you're not educated, you think, oh, I'm just walking into shots, which I'm absolutely not. I'm just blocking him with my arms, blocking him with my shoulders rolling off, coming back, just inching my way into him. And, yeah, the judges could see that. Like, look, if you look at the fight, look at the, look at my face. It looks like I come straight from a dance party.

I don't have one mark. If you look at his fucking face after the first round, he was bleeding and all that. So, yeah, I was super confident I got it. I mixed it up well, putting some, of course, he did very well too. I'm not saying that. He was game, as game as they come, and I have a lot of respect to Emmanuel. But I mixed it up well, too. Like, for my mom, putting some hands on, we were going back and forth on the feet.

Boom, then I got a take down in. And we knew he was very good at getting up. So the plan was like, don't use too much energy to get him down. And if I get him down, don't use too much energy to keep him there. So if he gets up, walk into the cage and blast him to the body before you let him go. And that worked pretty well. When you heard the 30-27s, were you still feeling confident? I was 100%.

Like when I heard the 30-27, then I knew like, yeah, it's definitely mine. Because if like, let's say the judge is like, because they might not have like seen my defense, 100% I knew I won the third round. So if it's 30, 27, yeah, I was like, okay, won that. So it's cool. Yeah, I think, I thought the first round, I mean, again, and I'm not a judge and thank God, I guess, because I would have got that one wrong. I thought he won the first round and then the other two were close.

But I had no problem with you getting the nod. But I mean, were you, I mean, I know you're getting ready to prepare for your own fight, but there were a couple of pretty questionable judges' scorecards prior to your fight. Were you aware of those at all? Like a couple of fights that probably should have gone the other way but didn't. You were focused on your own stuff. Yeah. But seriously, try to go back and watch that first round in slow-mo.

Motherfucker hit an eight, seven, eight punch combos. He ain't hidden with one punch in some of them combos. It's all smoke. It's that defense, the tenacious defense. It's the defense. but you don't get rewarded for defense. Nobody gives a fuck about the defensive player of the year in NBA. That's a shame.

Everybody thinks Mayweather is boring. How many people know James Tony? Who knows who Willie Pep is? The defense is a mastermind. How many people know Achimor, Jason, Joe Walker, Esser Childs? None. Because they're uneducated.

No, but I understand. Like, it's entertainment, too. Like, offense is very cool. I'm not knocking people and saying people are stupid and this and that. Of course, people are entitled to their opinion. That's just my opinion about defense, right? It's very subtle. And I understand if, like, if you tell me to do math, I don't know jack shit about math.

There's a lot of stuff I wouldn't understand. And it's the same if people don't understand like this subtle defense I do. Then they'll be like, oh, he's getting hit. But he's not. What? But he's knocking. You're knocking. Look at his.

My face. Clean as a whistle, my man. So heading in to this fight, Bellator had already announced that the fight between Adam Borch and J.J. Wilson, that's the number one contender fight. They were going to get the winner of Pitbull v. the key. A lot of people thought that the winner of your fight, especially if you won, which you did, you should be the number one contender. And it seems like you're pretty lucy-goosey. You're not in a giant rush to get to the bell. You're not calling anybody out. But is there a part of you that feels like you should be that guy that's next in line after getting that win? Like you said, I'm pretty loose about it. Actually, what I want the most right now is to fight.

And like, I would really love the Pelotaur came to Denmark or like just fight close to home. Because we have had all this COVID stuff. So we haven't been able to fight in front of an audience. We did that now. And that was super cool. I really loved them in the first round. We were starting to sling leather. And then Emmanuel hit me with some combos.

And people were like, oh. And then I hit him with some combos. Oh, and then he hit me back. like, ah, it was going crazy. That was super cool. I love that. But I really like to fight in Denmark or close to home. And yeah, take one fight at a time and just go in and do me. And then eventually, like, I can't be denied. Maybe the doubling card. Is that close to you? Yeah, I really like to be on the doubling card. My friend Patch is fighting on that too. So that would be cool fighting on the same card as him. There you go. McKee had the big finish in the main event. I know you're

impressed with the highlights that you saw. Were you surprised that he was able to go in there and just emphatically put pit bull away that quickly? If you look at some of the interviews I had before this event, I actually picked McKee to beat pit bull. So no, I was not. I was pretty confident that he was going to beat him. Yeah, that was, that was crazy. I was hoping the fight selfishly would go longer just because I would have loved to have

seen what a fourth and a fifth round would have looked like between those two guys. But man, AJ McKee was just not going to be denied at all. He is a wild man. He is a wild man. It's very good. I feel like this is. is coming out party and I feel like you kind of dealt with that yourself. And it seems like his future as the featherweight champion is kind of up in the air. Because he said prior to the fight on Saturday that that might be his last fight at 145.

It's a big weight cut for him and he was asked about at the press conference. Wouldn't like 100% commit to that. But he wants to go up to 55 and fight pit bull for the lightweight title and be a champion. That will be so. That must be shitty being pit bull. You just got knocked out by a dude for your featherweight bill. And it's like, oh, yeah. Now you've got to fight him for your lightweight belt.

Oh, fuck. If he goes up to 55 and wins that title, do you think there's any chance he'd come back down again? Or do you think I got the two ballots, I can give one up? Personally, I think most fighters will do that. If you can avoid cutting weight and still be like successful, why would you go back? If he has the same, if you have the same success in like lightweight

compared to when you fall featherweight, why would you go back to featherweight right yeah would you be disappointed from a competitive standpoint if you never got the chance to fight AJ I don't really care you don't really care no I don't think about that where does the lucy-goosiness come from is that just the maturity that that you've learned over the year since yeah like of course it's it's important you take the fight game serious because the fighting game is like a girl if you don't treat her right she's she wants to won't treat you right. You better treat her like your wife, but you shouldn't be like a,

like, shouldn't be too tense about it. Life goes on. As long as your mom and dad still love you, you're good. So if we're up to you, Dublin against anybody. Yeah, Dublin. Yeah, I don't have anybody on top of all mine. I know I've called out Byshal. That would be a fun fight because I think he's a cool fighter and yeah one of the europe european guys so wichael would be a cool fight yeah i think that makes sense i think the only other guy that'd be ranked like in that same area like below you that would be available would be pico and i think wichel probably is at this point like a better match but i know you and aaron are both managed by the same group and everything so i don't know i think that makes a lot of sense especially if we can do it in dublin uh i know

you're both europeans which makes sense too uh i know you're about to jump on a plane but I wanted to ask. No stress, no stress. I wanted to ask, in the post-fight presser, by the way, you stole the show. You talked about wanting a good burger, a delicious post-fight meal, worthy of the performance that you had. And you talked about your coaches eating good food around you and almost kind of rubbing it in. Like, were you able to satisfy that need?

Were you able to indulge in something delicious at all after that victory? Yeah, actually, that was pretty cool. Ali, he had some food for some of the fighters in his room, some very good food. And then when I came down in the lobby, Chris Gonzalez apparently bought in and out for everybody. So I'm just standing there with my coach. We're drinking a beer, me and my coach. And Chris comes behind me like, chokes me like, yo, you hungry? I'm like, yeah.

It's like, oh, shit, look there. I bought in and out for everybody. It's like, shit. And then he had burgers for everybody. So I got an in and out and a modello. So that was cool. In and out for everybody? Like he bought a big, big, big fucking case with in and out burgers.

That's amazing. Yeah, that's pretty cool. Shout out to Chris Gonzalez for that. That's pretty cool. That gets point in my book. Especially after, like, fighting a guy like Goichi and, you know, having a tough night, he goes out and, you know, rather than sulk in it, he goes and buys everybody burgers. I mean, that is a true gem of a human being right there.

That's super cool. And I think, to be honest, that's the way to go. Like, yeah, if you get a loss, like, they say, like, don't let it get too much to your heart. Like, think about it, assess what you did wrong, and then life goes on. On to the next. And how do you assess the wins? Like, how do you deal with the wins so you don't get like overconfident? I'm almost more critical about my wins that I'm about my losses.

I'm never satisfied. But that's, I think if you want to be a top fighter, that's what you should. You shouldn't be satisfied. The day you're satisfied, you should probably retire. Have you watched the fight since Saturday? Yeah, I watched many times, many times. And what was your biggest takeaway of like in terms of things you need to improve on? That's a good question because with such a bond burner, it was actually more like I was,

well, I really like the entertainment part of it. I was seeing what I did positive. I really think, I think what I was looking a lot for was actually my low calf kick. Because before my last fight with Saul, I didn't really kick that much. but then Dennis he watched Saul fight and he was very bladed so he's like yo you can blast him with that low calf kick so I worked it worked it worked it worked in practice it worked pretty well against Saul but I really feel that

I hit Sanchez with some good low calf kicks and I was like I saw him like it looked like it hurt on him once and I kept going to it but he was just freaking like you taking everything it's like what the hell is wrong with this guy and now my own leg is busted up for kicking him so much. I'm like walking around like I need crutches. What happens if you fight a zombie like that, man? Just poker face all day.

Yeah, I wouldn't call Emmanuel a zombie because I feel if you're a zombie, you're like not technical. I think he's very, very technically sound standing and on the ground. But yeah, yeah, I know what you mean. Yeah, I meant that with all due respect. Mr. Emmanuel Sanchez. Listen, Matt, congratulations on the way. tremendous performance, not just in the cage, but out of it on the mic.

And at the post-fight press conference, I think you stole the show after the fact and you had everybody laughing and hoot and hollering. So safe travels to you, my man. And hopefully we get to see you on that November card in Dublin. Have a nice day, man. And thanks for the time. I appreciate it. If it weren't for guys like you reporters, we wouldn't have like all the fans watching

and all that. So thank you for your work. We need a Mads-Bernel podcast in our lives. great personality, great performance, great victory, seven in a row, guys, a dangerous man in 145 pounds. Really interesting to see what they do next. I like the Daniel Vitiel idea. If they could do that in Dublin, it makes all the sense in the world.

And his approach of the fight game is just unbelievable. As we move ahead to one of the big stars heading out of BKFC 19, a little less than two weeks ago in Tampa, Florida. Let us check in with Taylor Starling. All right. let us say hello to Taylor Starling, one of the breakout stars for Bear Knuckle Fighting Championship. She's now 2 and O for the promotion after a 28 second finish of Cassie Rob 10 or so days ago in Tampa at BKFC 19. Happy to have the Killabee join us on the program this week. Taylor, how are you? I'm fantastic. How are you doing? A little under the weather, but I'm good.

Yeah, so what happened? What's going on? I have no idea. As soon as I got back from Florida, I kind of felt funky. And then I woke up really, really sick and turns out I have COVID. And it seems to me like a lot of people that were down in Florida and just a lot of people around me in general are starting to test positive. So it seems like it's kind of making its way back around and it's been really rough. But this is the first day that I felt really good. So when did you start to really feel it?

Did you start to feel like a couple days after the fight or? Honestly, I got home. So I got home that Saturday. I fought Friday. It came home Saturday. and for some reason I just couldn't eat. And that's very unusual for me because I love to eat. And I was like, gosh, I can't eat.

And then that Tuesday is when I woke up with like a really bad fever and shaking and not feeling so hot. So I took a test that day. I knew I knew something was wrong. But it took a couple of days before it really like kicked in, I guess would be the words for it. Are you saying that I should get tested since I was down there? Yes. Oh, no. I don't know. It's just crazy. It's like every, it's like all of a sudden every single person I've seen or like interacted with.

They've also caught it or feel kind of under the weather. Well, I know what I'll be doing the first chance I get. So thank you for the advice. But, you know, on a brighter note, that win over Cassie Rob has gotten you a lot of attention. You open up a lot of eyes with that performance, that relentless show of ferocity that was on display in Tampa. what outside of COVID and dealing with that, what has life been like over the last week plus? Like, have you noticed an uptick and people wanting to know more about you,

social media, following, et cetera? My social media following definitely bumped up, which I'm always like that's typical, usually after a fight. But honestly, I haven't even had like the chance to like celebrate or like even really process it or anything like that. Like I even was sitting yesterday. I'm like, dang, like I just fought. doesn't even feel like it. But there definitely has been a lot more uptick in the following on social

media. And I'm so thankful. I'm excited to be able to get back in the gym and get back to work because I know after this is going to be some pretty big opportunities coming my way. I would agree. And I think one thing that's stuck out about you throughout the week, even at the press conference and everything, like you were confident, but you and Cassie kept it very respectful the entire time, even photos afterwards of you giving her a piggyback and whatnot. And you and I sort of talked about the switch flipping when the fight began. Like you just, that, that sort of fighter mentality, that spirit just came out of you as soon as the bell rang. What did that victory do for your confidence, not just as a fighter, but in terms of how the company views you right now?

Honestly, I was so nervous before I walked out. I was so nervous. I was a mess. I even said the words like I'm like I just I really just don't feel good um it was just because I had set the bar so high my last fight that I felt a lot of pressure on me to go out there and like set the bar even higher which I knew I could do I knew I was capable of but it was a lot of pressure on me and it was like what if you know what what if what if what if um but I knew I had put in all the work I knew I had worked hard so I just had to go capitalize on it and a lot of people um I just wish went in there and I just, I really, I felt calm once I was in there. And once I was in there and I saw Cassie in front of me, all that, like, my fight load just kicked in and switch. And I have a lot

of respect for anybody who fights. I don't like to be, I don't like to talk trash and like do all that stuff just because at the end of the day, no matter what, you're going to have to get in there and fight, whoever you're going to have to get in there and fight, whether you talk crap or not, I feel like negative energy just takes more out of me. And I don't really like to play into that. And just anybody who is willing to step up and step in the ring has my respect. And there's no reason for anything else. Are those nerves typical for you?

Like, do you experience it like to that level typically? Or was this like bigger than it usually is? I can definitely say it was a little bit more so. But more so the fact that like I knew I had, I knew a lot of people were going to be like, okay, is she really about this bare-knuckle wife or not, which I know I proved that my last fight, but I just had a-I feel like I had just a little tiny bit more pressure on me. But I'm always nervous before a fight. I think if I'm not nervous, something's wrong.

Anytime I've ever just gone into a fight calm, it hasn't really gone well for me. I'm calm, but I'm nervous because it's like you're going in there and you're bare-knuckle boxing in front of a crowd of people. If you're not nervous, something's wrong. Yeah, absolutely. You know, kind of going back to some of the things you were dealing with mentally and emotionally coming out of the fight with Turissa and how that sort of weighed on your mind. You wanted to prove that, you know, this was, you are about this life, that incredible war you two ladies had. What specifically did you take away from that fight? Like other than, other than a victory in bumps and bruises, what did you take away, you know, from a mental perspective and from a confidence perspective after the Sagala fight? mentally it just kind of honestly reassured me because I knew I know how I fight and every single fight I go out there and lay it on the line I put my heart and soul in there I truly genuinely go in there and put my life on the line like I go in there as if I'm fighting for my life so mentally the takeaway was just like showing like showing that and like proving people

that I am that and I know that um also just the experience and like really taking my first bare knuckle fight and like what it felt like what my emotions were like for that my nerves for that um but i knew i knew what i was capable of and it was just a matter of me like showing the world what i was capable of so the big reason i wanted to have you on here is a lot of people have reached out they want to know more about you taylor they want to know more about your your journey into this crazy world of combat sports that you have engulfed yourself in. And from what I understand, and you can correct me and fill in the blanks if you

can, you began in the mixed martial arts world. And you had about a four-fight amateur run. All those fights took place, if memory research, it correctly, in 2015. Like, how did that all begin for you? Like, what got you into the MMA space and now on this crazy combat sports road you're on right now? Well, it's crazy because I actually started off with amateur boxing when I was a teenager. I had gotten in a lot of fights in school.

I got picked on a lot. But the way my dad raised me was just not to take any shit from anybody. So I would get picked on and bullied, but I'd stand up for myself and I would end up in fights and end up on the better end of fights. And I had some family friends

and the wrestling coach like, hey, maybe you should try, maybe you should try wrestling or like combat sports. And I was like, I would love to punch somebody. So I got into a taekwondo gym and started kickboxing and boxing. in jujitsu and I did a couple of grappling tournaments and then I really wanted to just punch somebody so I got into amateur boxing and then I really wanted to go to MMA. I didn't

really particularly enjoy Jiu-Jitsu so it was like it was more of a I have to because there's where that's when it was blowing up more so than it was. It was starting to really take off Ronda Rousey had like just became the women's world champion. I was like there's a lot more opportunity in women's MMA, but I wasn't too excited to fight MMA. But I knew that that was where the opportunity was going to be. And I had a lot of people tell me in a young age, like, boxing's a lot harder to get into than MMA or anything else. And that's kind of how it came to be. I just, and I wanted to fight MMA because I wanted to get into a freaking brawl. Like I wanted to have small gloves on and punch somebody like that. And so when I heard about bare knuckle, that's when I was like,

hmm, I think I need to go to bear knuckle. And my coach at the time absolutely hated the idea. The coach that I was training with, he was like, absolutely not, are you going to fight bare knuckle? So I kind of put it to the wayside. And when Paige Van Zand signed, I was like, oh, if Paige Van Zand can go fight bare knuckle, I can go fight bare knuckle. And I can beat Paige Van Zand is like how I felt when I saw her sign. and that's I just kind of kept shipping away at it and I couldn't feel any more at home than I do at Bar-Nockel. Once you started taking those classes, did people, like, did you get a reputation?

Like, we can't mess with this girl anymore. Like, no more bullying. Like, she'll beat our ass. Like, is that how it was? Or did people still try to try to start with you? I think it only took a couple times of getting in some really good fights at school that people were like, all right. And then I kind of got the reputation of like,

Okay, I think we should leave Taylor alone. Once people realized that I was like about that life, they left me alone. I'm always a super nice person. It was just like I moved to Albuquerque, New Mexico. That's where I live. That's where I went to school. And Albuquerque's rough. And me being there and just being the tiny little girl that I am, people just wanted to pick on me.

But I don't take shit. They learn real quick. What was 2015 like for you? Because, you know, like we talked about, you, you were super active. You fought a lot in 2015 in MMA as a lot of amateur fighters do. I mean, you had some ups, some downs. How would you describe where your mindset was at towards the latter end of 2015, like in your relationship with MMA at the time?

Yeah, I would honestly say that I wasn't, like, in my head, I thought I was training as, like, serious as I could. But I wasn't. Like, I really didn't know too much, like, how much strength. and conditioning played in a huge factor or just like dieting and things like that. Like I'm in better shape now after I've had kids than I was back then. Like I thought I was working hard and I was working hard, but just not, you know, when you start to really learn the game and like the little things that you have to do

as an athlete just outside of the gym and everything is, it's a lot more than just going to this gym and training for an hour and then leaving and then that being it. So I didn't really have that mentality yet at the time. I didn't really know. And I didn't really have a lot of good guidance of people making sure that I was on top of those things. So that played a huge factor in it. And, you know, it was one of those things where I was going in there and solely depending on my grit and my toughness. And then I started learning like, okay, there's different aspects to this besides just being freaking tough. Like you got to you got to, you got to, you got to to really change some things.

After that, I mean, at least according to some of the record pages from MMA, it looks like you took some time off. I don't know if you kept boxing or anything like that, but at least like according to your topology page, you took four years off. You ended up competing for glory in the kickboxing world at the beginning of 2019. Then you returned to MMA later on that year. Did the time off come from becoming a mom? Like you wanted to focus on motherhood or was it more, was it more than that?

I had babies. So yeah, I had my, my oldest son. He's five now. I had him. And then I kind of, after I had him, I was like, oh, yeah, I can bounce back. I can get in shape. And I started getting in shape, started getting to where I was about to go back to the gym and start hitting it hard. And then I found out I was pregnant with my second son. And it was like, oh, wow. I remember when my second son, I just felt completely like, okay, I'm done. Like, I'm done fighting. There's no hope for me. I had plenty of people telling me, like, you will never fight again. You can. you're a mom, you are out of shape. That's the life you have to focus on now. No more fighting for you. And I believe that for a little bit. And I just remember someone really close to me telling me like, oh, you'll never do it again. You're not capable. And it lit a fire under my ass that I was like, why?

Why? Why? Just because I have kids and I'm a mom, do I have to just say no? And then I thought about it more. And I was like, my kids are going to one day, they're going to. to have dreams and goals and things they want to do. And who am I to sit and say, like, you can go for your dreams, but I gave up on my mind because I had you. Like, that's, that's just not, so this really has been a journey of me just proving to my children, like, you can go for your dreams,

you can set goals and you can do it regardless of anything. As long as you work hard, you're nice to people, and you just get shit done, you can do anything you want in this world. And yeah, right after that I had I had my second son I went on a tear as an amateur boxer like trying to just get myself back into the fighting game I went on a tear and then next thing you know glory's hitting me up and they said we want you to come fight it and hell yeah let's do it like I was kickboxing I've always trained everything I've always trained mixed martial arts everything kickboxing boxing boxing jitsu wrestling so there was no reason for me not to do it and that was the first time I had like my first huge opportunity, but I will say I didn't want to be, didn't really want to be a kickboxer,

but it was like, I don't want to do MMA. Boxing's not happening right now. Glory's where to go. What do your kids think about what you do? Like, are they cool? Do they get it or are they still a little too young? They're still a little too young. They understand. It's funny because like the UFC fights can be on and there can be two men fighting and they're like, oh, there's no one. It's hilarious, but they come to the gym. They love the gym. They hang out. They don't really, like, it's funny because I can be mid-sparring.

And they're like, Mommy, Mommy, Mommy, like, can you grab me this? And I'm like, my hands are a little tied right now. But they come to the gym. I try to talk to them about as much as possible. A lot of people ask me all the time why they haven't been to one of my fights. And my answer is just I want them to be able to say, like, hey, mommy, I want to come to your fight. I don't want to force them or like, you know, bare knuckles very gruesome.

They watched my fight with Teresa. And my oldest one, my little one's more savage. My older one, he's very sensitive. So it definitely killed him to see me bloody like that. And I just want them to say, like, I want to go and I want to be there. But they support me and they understand somewhat. When did you, when did you come back, like for the boxing? Like how long of a break did you actually take?

Let me think because I definitely, it was a freaking journey because I remember I had my second son and I'm not, I was like 180 pounds. I was, I was heavy. So what I did, I remember I like set goals. So I started working out at home. Worked out at home, got down probably to like 140. I just started like killing myself at home before I even set foot back in the gym. and then I got my weight down some and I went back to the gym. I want to say at least six months, like six, maybe a little bit more than six months.

And then I went back, it took a good year before I took a fight. But it was a whole process. I knew that I had to like get my weight down before I just went in the gym. I went in the gym, had to make sure I could do everything all over again. It's a lot harder than just like going back. It's not like riding a bike exactly. I went in there and had to really chip away at it. So it was about a good year before I took a fight,

but it was a long year. At that point, like you take the opportunity for glory. You're like, I'm done with M.A. I'm not going to do this anymore. And then you come back to M.MA. You fight Jenny Savage, small world. The two of you find yourself in the same sport once again, the same organization.

You lose that fight. And then you fight again a month later. And you get your first pro win, first round verbal stoppage for King of the Cage. And that's it, right? that was the last MMA fight. Yeah, yeah. I actually, the crazy thing is I was kind of in camp for,

or I was in camp for my fight with the verbal stoppage against Brianna Smith. But I was in shape. I was already in a camp. And I remember someone had messaged me and said, hey, do you want to fight in like three days in Kentucky? And I'm like, oh, I don't know. And I was like, but then something in me was like, just go do it.

Why not? You're already in camp. why not just go, all you got to do is drive up to Kentucky, go fight, and then in a couple weeks you'll fight again. And I'm crazy like that. Like, I just love to fight. And I remember seeing Jenny Savage on there, and I felt so awful because she had put in, like, a full camp,

and her opponent backed out. I don't know really exactly what happened, but her opponent fell through. And I was like, man, that sucks. But I'm in good shape. Like, why not? Like, why not go do it? I'm already almost at weight.

I can just cut the pounds and go do it. So I went and did it. And that was one of the best fights I've ever had. Like that fight, if you watched that fight, you would think we were in a bare-knuckle fight. All we did was stand up the whole entire fight and exchange the whole entire time. And it was a really cool experience. The only thing was I fought a couple. I broke my nose in that fight.

And when I fought against Brianna Smith, I remember she hit me. And I was like, I probably should have let my nose see. So how did you end up back in M.M.A. Like, you were done with this. Was it just because you got that call? Like, how did you end up back when you felt like that, that, that page had been turned, so to speak? People had just like, you know, it's when you hear things, like, I don't know. Now, so if you told me to go back to the name, like, you're crazy.

I'm not doing that. But it was a lot easier to talk to me and be like, why don't you do it? I, like I said, there's a lot more opportunity. I wanted to box. I wanted to fight for glory. Glory was kind of BS to me. So nothing was going on. It seemed like the only thing that there was for me to do was to go back to M&A.

If I wanted to fight, M&A was there. There were opportunities there. So that's why I went back to M&A. And I love King of the Cage. I know all of the people in King of the Cage and they were like, come fight for us. And we'll take good care of you. And I was like, okay, like, absolutely. So that was kind of what really pushed me.

And then the Jenny Savage thing just kind of happened randomly. So I jumped on it. I want to fight. That's. And then BKFC. arrived on the scene and here we are. And you had the first fight and, you know, there's clearly a different comfort level for this fight with Cassie Rob, you know, especially coming off of a battle like you had with

Chirissa. I mean, I'm sure that made you much more comfortable after experiencing that amount of time and that amount of damage and that kind of fight. Like, how would you compare the mental approach between the Segalah fight and the Rob fight? With the Teresa fight, I had no idea what to expect. like you it's kind of it's just like a dream like when you before you fight bare knuckle you sit and you think about it like what is this going to be like what is it going to be like getting in the face with no gloves on or what is it going to be like punching somebody so i remember just being in there with

teresa and when we stood on the line like to toe the line i was just like oh shit this is real one of us is about to hit each other like it was very like ah and then with cassie like i was nervous but i went in there in the second I stood on the line. I felt so calm and I just looked at her and I like was reading her body head to toe and I knew exactly what she was going to do just by looking at her. I was like she's going to come forward. It's her first bare knuckle fight. She's not going to back up. She's going to come at me. And so I just, I knew that I had to step to the side, throw her right hand. And I sat and talked about it like it's her first fight. When I hit her, it's going to tell me everything that I need

to know I know she's either going to get hit and keep coming at me or she's going to crumble. And what happened was I hit her. Everything that I saw in my head as a vision just happened. Like I stepped to the side. I hit her and I seen her face the second I hit her like ah and I knew that I had her. It's a lot. Getting hit with bare knuckle is no joke. Like it is so different and it's like you can sit and think that you know how it's going to go.

But until you get hit with a bare knuckle, you. You really don't. One thing that I found kind of fascinating was, I mean, I was literally at the fighter hotel with you guys staying out there. And right before everyone started going to the arena, I remember there were certain fighters that were sitting out in the main lobby. One of them was Cassie, who was getting ready for her first bare knuckle fight. And she's talking with other bare knuckle fighters.

And they're all telling her, like, it's so different when you get hit in the face with a bare knuckle. Like, it's just way different. It's like, there's one, like, incredible. comparison that I don't remember what it was, but I was just like, man, that's, that's pretty heavy stuff to be telling somebody before you go into your first fight. Were people telling you that, like, just being like trying to, it's like being a parent, right? Like, people can tell you how to be a parent all you want and what it's like when you have the baby. But until you experience it for yourself, like, it never lives up to that.

You have your own experiences. So are people trying to tell you like, hey, this is what it feels like when you get punched in the face of the bare knuckle fist? Yeah. The funny thing is for me, the thing I heard about the most was not even. as much getting hit. A lot of people were like, oh, be ready for how your hands are going to feel. Be ready for how your hands are going to feel. Like, they're like, you think you can, you think you can stand to go in there and hit somebody for five rounds with a bare knuckle. Like, your hands are going to be screwed. And I remember I was like, they were like,

did you condition your knuckles? Did you do this? Did you do that? I was like, oh, God. I'm not. And then that's true. Like, to me, that was the worst part. Like, getting hit really sucked. And it's definitely different. It's not like you can take a heavy, it's hard. It's harder to take a heavy shot or a small shot. It's not like you can just get it and kind of compose yourself. Like when you're getting hit with those over and over again, it's a lot and it's overwhelming. You can't see. Like that's the thing is like when you get hit with those bare knuckles, you cannot see.

But my hands, when I fought Teresa, like I remember the last round, so many people were talking so much junk. Oh, she's tired. She's tired. But I wasn't tired. I literally, my hands, I was standing there. like this, like bouncing like this because I couldn't even close my hand anymore. That was the one thing I heard.

But oh, yeah, definitely everyone was coming out to me. Oh, you ready? Are you ready? Do you think you can handle this? And I was like, yeah, let's go. So now you find yourself in a position where people just want to see you fight all the time now. But you're also, like you just said, you're not one to talk trash and call people out. And there's certainly like a humbleness or respect factor attached to that approach.

You're a company gal, and there's nothing wrong with that. But there has to be something that makes sense to you, like something that stands out, right? Like, I know you don't make those decisions, but there has to be like kind of a wish list of some sorts, right? Is that is that accurate? Yeah, absolutely. I don't think that Rachel Ossivich will fight bare knuckle again. I don't know the way she was talking at the press conference. I don't think she will.

But I'm not calling her out. I'm just saying, like, I definitely believe that I'm up in the talks with the top girls. Like I believe it's Christine, Britain, me, and Beck. I think that those, and a lot of people can say what they want, but I'm two and O. I think I've more than proved myself. I'll do it again if I have to keep doing it. But there's no reason that I should be fighting anybody debuting anymore. Like, I feel like I can be up in there with them.

There's nobody for me to call out. Like, I just know that whatever it is. But I also understand the fact that Christine, Beck, in Britain have all been in there way longer than I have. They've all been there for a really long time. They've all got a good number of fights. But if you were to ask me, like, who are the top people that should be up there and that should be in the talks for the belt?

I believe that it's Christine, Britain, Beck, and me. And that's it. So it's funny because I thought Rachel looked completely at home in there. Like I felt more than she ever did in the UFC or, any MMA fight, I felt like the dog came out of her, like that Hawaiian fighter spirit came out of her. And it came out of her immediately. Because that's like, that's one thing I noticed about bare knuckle. And you, and you sort of touched on that.

Like when you get hit, you know, like you know right away. And you know like from the nerves and the mentality heading into a fight, Rachel cracked page right away. And immediately from there, I was like, all right. Like, this is kind of surprising, but she fits in really nice here. Do you feel, you really feel like she's not going to come back and do this again? You think it was a one time? I know. We were sitting next to each other.

She just kind of went like, I don't know if I want to do that again. But she also was like, then she also was like, that was really fun. And it is. Like it's addictive. Like it's just one of those things like where you could tell if you're about that life or not in Verernacle, like we said. And like, I think I think that maybe at first she might have been like, I don't know. but I think she's going to be like, man, I want to do that again.

It's, I hope she does because she really did look at home in there. And it was awesome. Like the way she carried herself too and stuff like that was really, really cool to get to fight next to her. And I hope she does come back. But it also is one of those things, like when you see your face, like my face after Teresa, like when your face is messed up and you feel like you're just like that is a lot. It's a lot to take. Like, you don't get to recover as fast.

Like, I got lucky this fight with not, without, with coming out unscathed. But when you're hurt like that, your hands, your face, it takes at a minimum, like, four months to, like, fully come back and heal from that. Like, your hands hurting and your face, like, not hurting anymore. The swelling and stuff goes down pretty quick and your black eyes kind of go away really quick, but your hands and stuff, like, you got to give you. yourself a lot of time to heal. So it's a lot harder. It's not like MMA where you can make a faster turnaround or things like that. It's a lot different. How were your hands after the Cassie

Rob fight? They were good. They were sore for a couple of days, like my right hand especially. Like my hands were very, very sore. I don't remember getting hit. And if I did, I just didn't feel it. Like I had like a little bit of soreness like right here. But other than that, like, I felt great. My hands were just sore and now they're fine. You mentioned that as soon as Paige signs, you felt like, all right,

well, if she's, she's in, I can be in too. And Paige obviously has a big name. She's got a big following, et cetera, et cetera,

but now she's oh and two in the promotion. I feel like matching Paige up with you would be, would not be a good thing for her. I just, I just think that you're, I don't know. I just, I don't like that match up for her.

I think if she's going to come back, you got to build her confidence and some way, and I don't think a fight with you would do that. So I'm curious, like, if Dave Feldman and the BKFC brass approached you with the page fight, obviously there's a lot of, there's a lot of attention that comes to that. But as a competitor, does that fight even appeal to you right now? Do you feel you're, you're that far ahead of her at this point? It doesn't really appeal to me. It would be an honor. I think page is awesome. Page is so nice. Page is a badass. I think a lot of people are really kind of knocking her, and I think that's bullshit. But, um,

Hage is awesome, but no, I want, I'm right now, like, we're, we're just in two different conversations, I think right now as just like with what I'm doing and the tournament and champ talk and belt talk and stuff like that. Like, I'm above that. I'm not above fighting page at all. I would like, she's awesome and it would be an honor. But like I said, we're in two different conversations right now. Like, I think, like you said, I think that she needs to get her confidence back and gain her traction back and do that. That's what's. they do. Like in the UFC, you don't get, people don't, like, you don't, you're not up in the top and then lose and then get to just automatically just fight the champ again or like get, get right back up

in there in that ranking like that, you know, I think it needs to be something where she builds herself back up and hopefully gets right back to it, you know. I hope that, I hope she still continues to fight for bare knuckle and I, I hope that she makes her way back that way. Yeah, I mean, she took a little bit of a beating. I thought she showed a lot of improvement between the Britain hard fight and the Rachel fight. I just think, I don't know. I just, to me, and I just want to get your take on this, the first fight with Britain, I felt like she was more of an MMA fighter trying bare knuckle.

This fight, I think she was a boxer doing bare knuckle. She focused all of her attention on boxing. And to me, like, if she could find like the middle ground, I think she could find some success. Am I looking at this the right way as somebody who's in the sport? Absolutely agree. I mean, obviously I fought the same night she did that night, but I was out in the crowd watching her in Britain fight, and you could see that she came into her own at, like, round five,

maybe round four or round five. She started really coming into her own and, like, finding her way. But at first it was like, oh, shit. Like, this is a bare-knuckle fight. It's not like in a me. It's different. But I definitely think she belongs there. Like, she, and like, then let me say,

page can get so hit so freaking hard and shit. her face is still perfect. Like her face gets like the most minimal amount of like bruising. And she doesn't cut open. So like she's tough. Like she's not a bleeder. She's not a she doesn't split open easy. She doesn't bruise like easy.

And I'm always like, man, I'm so jealous of that because I'm a bleeder. Like it takes nothing for me to bleed. After the fight and you heard at the press conference, people immediately thought, you know what? Let's do. Let's do Taylor Starring versus Brittenhard. And you two seem pretty tough. you both are, you're both in on that as long as there's money and a title attached to it. And I feel like the two of you have been for sure the breakout names for the company this

year. And interestingly enough, I talked to Britain after the fight. And I asked her, you know, who deserved that title, the breakout fight of the year more in 2021? She said, hands down, it's her because she beat Paige and she beat Jenny. Do you agree with that? Like, do you, I mean, I'm not trying to stir the pot or anything, but I just want to get your take on that. No, absolutely. Britain's been there for a while. while and I feel like she's she is a pioneer for women's bare knuckle and I do agree. And yeah, we are not fighting each other unless it's for a belt and a large amount of money. I feel like that's just only fair.

Like even with like Paige, like I don't even know how much Paige made this last fight, but it wasn't a belt fight. I mean, she fought Rachel. They have their name. I understand they're solidified in the sport. But like, come on now. You can afford to pay me in Britain. literally a fraction of what I know that page got fought or got paid for knucklemania.

Like they can, if they want to make that happen, like Britain said, we are both really good friends. I have known Britain for a long time. We are good friends. I have no animosity towards her. So if we're going to have to, if we're going to fight each other, it needs to, there needs to be something behind it, money and a belt. And that's just all that makes sense. It's like I'm not going to go and fight her for just nothing and go fight each other and not be it. Like there's got to be something behind that. Has there been any talks about what they're going to do in terms of crowning a first champion in this division? Like, I mean, you mentioned four names.

It seems obvious. I love a tournament as much as the next person. Why not do it that way? Four person elimination tournament and do it that way. Like has that been discussed? Are you privy to any of that? we literally there has been no talk about it until after the fights and um i even was like i i honestly didn't even know that there wasn't a women's champion because like you know there's the police

gives out belt and stuff like that that um christine's gotten and begs gotten but then i realized oh that's not the championship belt the championship belt is gold and it says bkFC there's never been a women's champion which honestly i understand because there hasn't been that many women in bare knuckle and now is like the division stacking up. I think it only makes sense. Like why not have a women's champion? And now that we all fought on that card and the way that things have panned out,

now they're talking about it. And that's great. But we needed to happen. Like we needed to happen. If we're up to you, when are you getting back in there? Like there's a couple cards in the books. I know there's one in August. I think that's probably too soon.

They're heading to Phoenix in October. I don't know if that's too soon. But do you feel confident that we'll see you back in there before the end of the year? Yes, I actually have talked to the matchmaker, and he called me like the next day after the final. So when you got to get back in there? And I was like, hold on.

I need to like eat some bad food. I want to, I'm going to say probably October or November. Probably October, November. That's the word I've gotten is October and November. September is just a little too soon for me. I want to, like I really, like I've got COVID. so I haven't got to do anything. I kind of wanted to take a, I'm getting the break I needed

because I haven't had time off work or anything. So I'm getting a break from COVID. But I want to enjoy some bad food and just like live like my normal human life for like a week. And then get back to hitting it hard. But for me in a perfect world, October, November would be perfect. Have you gotten a name or anything yet? No, I've tried to ask too. They're still kind of, I think me and Britain threw them through a loop.

I don't know if they expected us to just be like, all right, we're going to fight each other. Like, I think that that's what they thought was going to happen. But we both stood our ground on that one. Christine, I believe, is fighting in September for Toe the Line. I think she's the Main Event for a Toe the Line event. And then I believe that Beck is fighting in October is what I've heard. So we'll see. We'll see.

They told me that they are kind of weighing out the possibilities right now and trying to figure out what they're going to do. But I'm ready. I'm ready for whoever. You went back in October? That sounds like a hell of the main event or a co-main event. Yeah, that would be cool. If I'm fighting back rolling, I better be the damn main event.

Unless Britain's fighting and she could be a main event above me. Britain's just loving that and joined that marriage. right now. She's all over the place, post a picture at Disneyland with the new hubby and everything. I mean, look at her. I know. See, that's, I'm trying to get, I'm ready for COVID to go so I can have my post-fight celebration. I haven't even got to, like, I haven't seen any of my team.

I haven't got to see anybody. My parents, really, nobody, and I, like, just want to hug everybody. And it feels like I, it feels like I fought, but it doesn't because I haven't got to just do all the things I do post-fight. What else? besides eating bad food, what are you going to do to celebrate this victory? I don't know. I really want to go to the beach. I really want to go to the beach.

I was going to try to take my kids to Disney World, but the way that COVID's kind of happening right now, I don't really know if I want to take them and have them out there, and especially it's hot right now. I just want to do something. Like, I just want to enjoy some time with my kids and eat bad food and not have to worry about fighting for like one day. There you go. What are we talking about a year from now in your eyes? Like one year from right now, we have like an anniversary chat. Where are you at?

What are we talking about? Belt around my waist. That quickly? Boom, I'm be holding it up while we're talking. Look, look at my belt. So shiny. Wow. See, if they did a tournament, that'd be a quick tournament.

That would be pretty awesome. Let's go. I'm ready. Well, Taylor, I mean, it has been a hellacious start to the year for you. Excited to see what is next, hopefully in October or November. I think BKFC, frankly, you should be strapping the rockets to both you and Britain right now, if we're being honest. But great job. Great job on at BKFC 19.

Thank you so much for the time. And thank you for telling your story. I appreciate it. No, absolutely. Thank you. It means a lot to me. And thank you, everybody who tunes in and watches this. I love you all.

and I can't wait to see what's next. I'm glad we got to do that conversation. Learned a lot about the career, the path, the life of one Taylor Starline. I think she could be a very big player for BKFC, for this promotion. She could be the face of this promotion.

I know they got some names, they got Paige, they got Rachel Ostovich, and others like that, that sell tickets, no doubt about it, but you have to bring up your home, grown talent as well. I mean, look what Bellator is done with Adrian McKee. I know that took a,

took some years, some seasoning, if you will, to get to that point. But eventually they got there. And I think Taylor Starlin can be sort of that homegrown star for BKFC as well. I think Britain hearts right there as well. And that was just a great performance for her kind of a breakout moment at BKFC 19 with that win over Cassie Rob. So I'm glad we got to have that conversation and get to know a little bit more about her road to BKFC and where she goes from here. As we move ahead to our next doesn't do a lot of interviews, but he was in Las Vegas this past weekend, and while he was there, had the chance to catch up with the former UFC flyweight title challenger, man who's hoping to get back to that title shot once again down the road.

Let us check in with Alex Perez. All right, let us welcome back to the program, Mr. Alex Perez. He returns to action August 28th. The deck has been shuffled once more for this man, as it has for pretty much an entire year for this man. He faces Matt Schnell August 28th, his first appearance since stepping in and fighting for the flyway title back in November. Alex, good to see you, man. How are you? I'm good, man.

How are you doing? Doing great. It has been crazy. We go from Schnell and May to Ask her off in July, which would have been this, I think, this weekend. And then back to Schnell in around a month or so to say that the UFC in this division has kept you on your toes. That's a massive understatement, is it not? Yeah, you know what I mean? But part of the job.

you're not guaranteed to make it to the fight, you know, you or your opponent. And you kind of got to roll with it, man. It's just like a roller coaster. It ain't that you can do about it. So I want to go back to November because you get the title shot that a lot of people felt like you deserved. It wasn't, you know, it had to do with Cody being kind of brought out. You were moved from one fight to the title fight and you go in there against a guy in Davis of Figurato that had just been on a rampage in this division. Gets the guillotine, fights over shortly thereafter.

I'm sure you were frustrated with the result, but I mean, you've done this thing so many times at this point. What were you able to take away from that title fight and the whole fight week experience and just getting in there with Figgie and having the fight play out the way that it did? Nothing new, man. The only thing that came ahead is fuck shit happens.

That's the best way to put it. It's games about inches, you know, seconds, and that just goes to prove it. My coaches did a great job of getting me very, I mean, we practice six, eight weeks, whatever it was, guillotine defense, you know, I was a split second late of jumping over, you know, to the opposite side of the guard. You know, when I jumped, there's a little too late. I jumped into the guard because he was already setting it up.

I should have jumped a little bit earlier. At the end of the day, it is what it is. It happens, man. Ain't nothing much about it. You know, people are like, oh, you're going to change teams. No, man, it's not my team's fault, not my coach's fault. the way life is, man, sometimes it doesn't work out, but you can't blame anybody else.

I'm the only one in there. And I take full responsibility, split a second late. It is what it is. Get back to drawing board, get back at it. People are telling you to switch teams or asking you if we're going to switch teams after that? Really? That's crazy.

You know what I mean? And it's, you know, it's not, I don't think it's like crazy because you see a lot of guys do it. You know, they lose and they're, switch all whole new camp they lose I see a lot of people do it

in MMA like boxing is a little bit more I think it takes a while for them I've seen guys go from one camp to the next to the next to the next you know they win two

three the best get the best coaching staff they lose one well you know they suck they switch and I mean I don't know I'm loyal to a fog sometimes

but I feel like I have a good mix with you know team Oyama, one jihitsu, Corey Beasley, and then, you know, I've been doing a little cross training. I wasn't able to get, I'm not able to get out there at this camp, but, you know, I've been doing a little cross training with Factory X with Montoya and the boys out there. So I think I got a good mix. Yeah, I would agree with that. Like, not seeing you with Oyama would just be, I don't know,

like, I see people leaving and jumping around, but you, you're just like, you're just in there. Like, when I think of that team, I think of you. So it would be a little crazy in my mind just see like bouncing around at cross training that that's i get that but seeing you like not being part of o yama is like your main training place it would just be weird man yeah man uh o yama's my home um like i said like i love training with coach mark went to i and all those guys so it's always a good mix you know it's good for me too just mentally um you know get a break uh when i'm home like you know obviously if i use my main job but i also teach classes i do private lessons i help a lot of the fight team, whether it's cornering or private lessons with them,

just individual work with certain guys when they have fights. And then when I go to factory reacts, I get a bit, be selfish, you know, and just kind of think about myself, get a whole new environment, you know, I'm not like a guy, people ask for advice. They kind of just look at me, like, oh, you're just another body, which is cool. I like it. I like to be that normal guy where I'm asking questions. I'm asking for the help, you know, and it's a good mix, you know,

they have a great group of guys out there. I think I fit in perfect with those guys, a bunch of goof balls, you know, and I feel like we all get along. Yeah, there are definitely a lot of goofballs out there. And you get to train with Roy Val and, you know, Hernandez and all the, yeah,

goof balls is a perfect way to describe the, you know, sort of the mentality around that team. Were you, I'm curious, we, they're goofy, sorry,

they're goofy, but, man, they're hard working, hard grinding guys. It's like, it's different when you see them. Yeah,

so I lost you right when you said, Yeah, there are a bunch of goofballs, but, and then I lost it. Yeah, they're a bunch of goofballs, man. But, like, you know, I practice a goof around, but they freaking work hard, man. And we see them getting the cage with, like, two totally different people. Like, my favorite guy, one of my favorite guys is Vince Pichel. He just moved out there. But that guy is the biggest goofball of the mall, man.

He's just crazy. And then we see him in the cage, like, oh, this is the same guy? But, you know, this is the same guy? So it's always, like I said, there are a bunch of good guys out there, man. were you surprised to see what brandon moreno has been able to do like come back a month later after beating roy val to fight figurato to a draw like i know there was a point taken away and had that point not getting taken away we might be having a different conversation right now but then he stops figurato in the rematch back in june like were you surprised to to see moreno just just step up like that i mean he's a dog but to go out there and take figure out of the limit and then and then finish him like that were you surprised uh I mean, no, like, I thought, I thought the fight would play out kind of a little bit like the last one. I thought if a girl were going to come in, come in hot the first three and then cool down the last two.

So I kind of was telling my manager Jason, I was like, I feel like we got to win one of the first rounds, whether it's the second or third. And I think you'll take the fourth and fifth for sure because he gassed it out, you know? That's like saying like 100% Davidson came in. in or like, you know, I mean, no excuse. I mean, I don't know what happened. He's making an excuse or saying that he didn't feel good. I didn't feel good either. Like, give me a rematch, you know?

You know, but, like, I felt like if everything was 100%, both guys were both 100, I thought that was the way it was going to go. Like, Marino would have doing one of the first three rounds, you know, and then come in. And then he came out and blew him out of the waters, which was surprising just because, you know, like what for me once you step in the cage there's no excuse of I didn't feel good or I'm her I'm this once you step in that cage or is because you have ways out of the fight you know I mean before you have injuries you know if you don't want to fight you can just like hey I'm not you know you can say I'm hurt I'm this on that once you step in the cage for me it doesn't matter what you went through all camp whether it's a good bad you know broke your hand whatever it is once you step in that cage you're your basic thing you're 100% fine and um you know and um you know and I was surprised that he blew him out that early. I thought maybe he was going to be in later rounds, but, you know, good for Marino. I'm more happy for my management, you know, Jason House and Eridium finally get their first

champion. I've been with them since I was 18 years old, you know, I'm 29 now to see where he's come from from a management perspective as a professional perspective, but also in his personal life, it's just, man, it's just amazing to see, you know, kind of kind of like. a fairy tale, you know, and he still got so long way to go. So it just, he's just, he just not reach his potential yet as a manager. Self, I mean, I know you're not like watching fights, like rooting for guys to win, unless they're your own fighters, but was there a part of you that was like, this is very good for me that Brandon Moreno just won the title? It kind of knocks

figurato out of the picture and opens the door a little bit more for you. Like, did you see it that way? Uh, no, I was just more happy for Jason, you know? I mean, that's all I mean, I was texting him all week. Even when he was, fought Davidson the first time. I was texting Jason because he was in the corner. I was texting him in between rounds. Like, hey, man. Like, hey, like, tell him to put the numbers on him.

Like, but this guy's gassing bad. Like, you can see the way he's walking to the corner. Like, I would like, you know, I'll text Jason. I see him in the corner, especially if someone I know. Or even, hey, but he's cornering, honestly. Okay, he or she needs to do this. Hey, like, do this. Like, this is what I see on TV.

You know, I don't know if you can tell the coach. Or like, or if we know the coaches, you're like, hey, this is what we see, you know, kind of thing. and, you know, I just told my opinion. But to me, I was just more happy for Jason, honestly. I can care less who wins the title. Eventually, I'm going to get back there. So it doesn't matter who has it. After the first fight with Schnell fell out,

how did you react to getting Asker Asarov? Because a lot of folks felt like he was next in line for the title to get the winner of the fight between Figuerreiro Mareno. We find it a few days after that fight that it's going to be you and Ascaroff. Were you surprised to see that name pop up? Um, I mean, yeah, no. I mean, for me, I was just like, because so before they fought, it was already in talks. Like, people think like all, uh, you know, it just happened after.

Um, no, I wasn't, it was in talks before that fight. And, uh, I said, yeah, we're just waiting for the contract and everything. Uh, to me, I don't say no to fights. Uh, so you can offer me wherever. I'm going to say, yeah, I'm here to fight. Um, a lot of people don't know, but I mean, every time I, I come corner, I get close to making one 35s, like the week. I can make one, like right now, I can make one 35s.

So if any of the 25 punders fall out and they want to accept the fight at 35s with me, then I'm always ready to step in, you know? So in that sense, I was just like, I was just like, like last week, I was getting, like a couple weeks ago I was here with Carla and I was trying to fight a guy, you know, Dave Dorek or whatever's name is? DeVore. for to step in. Yeah, so I'm always in shape to get in, you know, always bring my mouth piece and cup. Always in shape to jump in. So when I got asked, when they asked me, I was like,

cool. And then when I found out it's a fight top, I was like, man. So I was kind of, I'm always in ready in limbo to fight wherever it is. You know, I'm a, I'm going to say, yeah, to fight. I get paid to fight. You know what I mean? This is my main job. Obviously, I got my other stuff I do on the side, but this is my main job. I say yes to fights. How close was that fight? How close was the UFC to pulling the trigger on that? On the Devaric idea, yeah. He didn't want to take the fight.

I told him, I was like, I was like, I can make 35 for sure. Is that, can you make 130? I was like, man, honestly, it's going to be hard, but I'm down. This is the day before, you know, we found out that point it pulled out. And I was like, if you guys were talking about the beginning of the week, I would have been on weight. And good thing, my nutritionist, perfect athletes was I here with Toafima. So they were literally down the street from the whole. hotel so they're like, yeah, if you want to make the weight, like, if they let us in, we'll be

there, we'll get you, make weight, you know, we'll do all our, all our magic, you know, like, I'm down. I text the matchmaker, text Jason and Jeremy and a group message. Like, I'm down, I'm down. I started cutting the weight, you know, started getting down the tub and everything, and they're like, oh, no, he's going to fight some other guy. I'm like, all right, you know, I mean, just let me know, I'm here. I'm here to fight. You know, I'm here to make money. I'm trying to buy a house, trying to do things. So, uh, sitting on the couch, you're going to do it. What a G move, man. Impressive. What's what we like to say?

I always get, I always get yelled at because I, I always, I slide into make manners, make, make, make manners, like, hey man, like if any of the guys can't make weight, let me know. I'm only four hours away. That's a, that's a, you know, that's a, that's a quick nap. And I mean, I'm in town. I can make 35s for sure. You know, I can't make 25s, but I can make 35s, hands down. And he always, he always just laughs. Like, all right, man, I'll keep that in mind.

Oh, man. Amanda Nunes tests positive for COVID. The fight with Juliana Pena is getting pushed back. Just happened. Like seconds ago. Wild, man. Yeah. I just got my notification.

I'm cleared. I get tested negative. So I'm like, thank God. There you go. So when you found out that Ascaroff was injured and out of the fight, was it was a kind of a tough pill to, I mean, listen, you don't care.

You'll show up at the apex for fight week and be ready to fight anybody. So at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter. you see opportunity you just jump through the door. But were you kind of bummed that Ascaroff was, was hurt and out of that fight? I mean, you can't control it. But at the same time, that was a big opportunity to get right back in there. I mean, during wrong. I was disappointed, but like that shit happens, man.

It's not like he's just like, oh, I don't want to fight this guy. Like he got injured. He had to have surgery. Cool, man. Like, I had to blow up fights because I was injured. You know, it's just part of the game. There's nothing I can do about it. I was upset.

Went to go eat some Korean barbecue and then got back to work, you know? Because they had told me like, oh, like, I was trying to get a fight for this weekend. Matt Chenow couldn't make the way or didn't want to do it. You know, I would have to do it at 35s. I don't know what happened. Pushed it back. Now we really could take the fight on short notice. And I was like, all right, man.

Like, I just want to fight. You know, so that's why I've been bugging the matchmakers ever since. Like, hey, there's, you know, I can slide in. I don't mind fighting twice in the same month, I've done it before, you know. And yeah, I mean, it is what it is. I get paid the same whether it's Askedroff or Matt Janelle. So I'm just, I'm here to get the way to make a statement

for my name in line for that title and then I go from there. Does Mick like when you, when you slide into the DMs like that? Or does he get annoyed after a while? I don't know. I mean, it's always good. Let him know that you're, you know, you're available. Because you see guys, you know, like I said, Amanda News just tests positive.

You know, you see people test positive all the time, and that sucks for them, but it's also an opportunity for other people to make money. So, like, people are like, oh, this has been a long training camp for you, blah, blah, blah. I extend it's like, well, not really because I train you around. So it's not really, like, I really never in training camp, it's more spite specific. And then basically the weight, you know, basically that's, I mean, shape your rounds. fight year-round because especially now this is the age of opportunity with COVID happening. And I've seen people make runs at it, you know what I mean?

Like, man, I've seen people fight three or four times in the same year, which is great. They're making money, winning fights and, you know, keep it active because of opportunities like that. And like I said, like I don't think he gets upset at all. I think he kind of just like laughs, laughs at all. He's like, all right, man, I keep your mind. So it's opportunity, man. Opportunities there.

You got to take it. Look at Kevin Holland last year, man. Five, guy that goes five and oh, you know, got a big opportunity. And, you know, this year hasn't started off tremendous for him. But he made, I mean, he made the most of 2020 in a pretty horrible year. So I get definitely see where you're coming from. Do you feel, I mean, listen, who you fight doesn't matter. You're there to fight.

But do you feel like you can, how should I put this? Have a bit more fun in there with Matt Schnell. Because, I mean, Ascroft's solid everywhere. His wrestling's outstanding with Schnell. Yeah, he's very good. you need to worry about different things, but I mean, he has this reputation to being a very exciting guy. Like, you know what I mean? Like, do you feel like you can have more fun with Matt? It's a little more entertaining, if you will?

Honestly, at this level, I think it's all, I keep them all the same, man. Like, yeah, I'm Matt Schenhouse and I was going off a loss, but I still spy on them. Like, whoever's in front of me is the most dangerous guy in the division. You know what I mean? Because I'm guessing people, you know, people, I mean, as one of the best guys in the division. Like, you know, what I look at myself and what other people look at me are two different things. You know, I see people talk about like, man, like, who the hell are they talking about? You know, I don't see that.

But, you know, so I feel like I elevate their game because, like, oh, I'm fighting, you know, so-and-so. So when I have, like, a match now in front of me, he's the best guy in the division. The reason why is because he is in front of me. It doesn't matter by anybody else, the champ, the number 30th ring guy, whatever it is. It's matchchannel is number one in my books. He's a spot in front of me. Even though he's ranked below me, he's the guy, next guy, and he's better than me. And that's my mindset for everything.

I go out there to, you know, put it on a show, whether it's finished, decision, whatever it is, I'm glad to get a win. But like I said, I always try to go out there and make a statement every fight. It is a pleasure to speak with you, Alex, because it doesn't happen that often. Like, I know you don't do a ton of interviews, but the last, we haven't spoken since some big changes have happened in your life. You have got a new baby in the house. Congratulations to you for that.

How has fatherhood been? And how is having a baby in the house been over these last few months? It's good, man. Probably the best part of my day is being able to hang out with him. Props to his mom. She takes her at night, you know, so I can sleep. Obviously, she's stepping up 110%. You know, has a baby like 99% of the time.

You know, so when I get up, I go run, come back, walk my dogs. And I grab the baby from her before I go to train, you know, eat, do all my sleep. I do hang out with him. And then she takes her for the day. day and then I kind of just, you know, when I come home, I get to see him hang out with him for a little bit. So it's been, it's been a blessing, man. Even though when I'm tired of come home and he's just jumping up and down, like, you know, but at the end of practice, you're like, yeah, I'm ready for bed and you come home, you see that, it's kind of okay, you know, it's cool, you know,

definitely learning experience. I come from a big family on the second oldest of nine, you know, so I get it, I got a little bit of experience, you know, it's a different when it's not your kid because before he can, you know, he starts crying, like, oh, here you go. Now he's crying. He's like, you know, where am I supposed to go? But it's fun. But definitely, definitely an interesting, you know, a new dynamic to this fight game. It puts more respect on people that have kids and train and everything because it's a tough job, especially like obviously the sleep and the eating.

You got to try to make time for the family. You got to make time for training. You got to make time for every little thing. And more, more problems, more respect to everybody that has. as kids in this game, whether you're in the UFC or, you know, starting out, it's definitely tough. It's, you know, I can only imagine how tough it is. If, you know, if I would have my son, you know, before I got into UFC, where you have to work a full-time job, 99% of the time and train, you know, two to three percent of the time and then still have a kid, you know, that I can

only imagine that. It's hard right now where this is mainly my job and it's like, man, it's a handful, but blessed to have the opportunity to do it. You've never really needed to find motivation or your why to fight. But I mean, parenthood, I have an eight year old. It changes all of us. And most of the time for the better gives us more of a wider lens, like more tunnel vision in this crazy thing called life. Like have you experienced that yourself already? Like do you just feel different inside because, you know, you see the baby. You see the, what would see? Five months now? Five or six months? Yeah, going to be six months, man. Six months, 21 pounds. Got two teeth.

man, he's growing up quick. He's a big boy. Good for him, man. Have you, like, kind of experienced that, like that, you know, extra bit of a boost? Yeah, man, there's times where I'm, like, laying in bed, you know, my alarm. I wake up usually before my alarm, but there's times where, like,

my alarm will go off and laying in bed. Like, do I really want to go run? I kind of look over because, you know, I kind of look over and see it stuff there. I'm like, oh, man, I got to do this, you know. I'm not just for, it's just. not just for me anymore. It's, you know, it's to make a better life for him. You know, obviously, I can't fight forever.

So I got to make as much money as I can between the next, you know, I'll be 30 in March. So by the time, you know, 30, hopefully I can fight until I'm 50, you know what I mean? But realistically, 35, you know, maybe a little older, just depending on how the body holds up. So right now is the time to go, go, go, go, go, and make as much money as possible for me, him. and, you know, obviously our future. Did you get a new dog too? Yeah, so I got two, I got two English Bulldogs. I saw the pictures, man.

That's awesome. And one six years old and the other one's about eight months, a seven, eight months. So it's definitely interesting. I find out the best idea. So you have a baby and a puppy in the house at the same time? Yeah, it's probably wasn't the smartest idea. You should never let me make decisions like that when I'm dieting. You know, it's probably one of those things.

I was like dieting. I was looking at, I love English bulldogs. And I see that. I was like, oh. And then I told, I told Christina, I was like, yeah, I was like, what do you think about getting on the dog? Should I'm about having a kid, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, huh, well, just, you know, okay. And then a couple months later, she said, what's this?

I was like, oh, yeah, I forgot to tell you. I bought a dog. She's like, what? She said a baby and blah, blah, blah. I was like, yeah, I wasn't thinking. I apologize. What are we going to do, send him back? You know, he's already here.

So, yeah. It's definitely, definitely interesting. You got a good woman, man. She just accepts it and, you know, everything she's doing with a kid right now. I mean, you got pretty lucky, especially being a fighter. Like, not a lot of women out there understand the life of a fighter, you know? Yeah, I mean, where to get us? It's my, I believe my second pro, well, we met my second pro fight, you know, so that was back in 2011.

So, you know, she thankfully, she, you know, she understands the game, understands, like, the dieting part. You know, obviously, I have my nutritionist, but she does most of my cooking. She can contact with my nutritionist, you know, and they contact back and forth. So she's a very big help for me and fighting. and just in everyday life, especially in fight camp, you know. And one less thing I have to worry about making food and, you know, having to watch the baby full time and stuff like that. So very lucky to have her help me out for sure.

So how do we get this thing done on August 28th, Alex? How does this thing play out with Matt Schnell? And finally we get to get you back in there this year after all the shuffles of the deck. Oh, man. I'm going out there to make a statement, man. I know we got a new championship division. I think it's wide open. I know Ascar is ranked number two, I believe,

but he's hurried, he's highline for five, six months. Honestly, I'm going out there to make a statement. I'm going out there for the finish. I'm always looking for the finish. I'm always looking to push the pace, break people. If I don't get the finish, I'm looking to dominate from beginning to end. Like I said, I'm my biggest critic.

And you're only as good as your last fight. And my last night wasn't that good, so I'm here to prove everybody wrong, for every way that, you know, I'm the real deal. I made a simple mistake, brain forwarded, split second, and, you know, cost me. But show everybody that I've gotten better from that and make a statement. Finish this fight and make a statement. We want to next, whether it's a title shot or anybody else in the division.

I'm here to fight. I'm here to make money. I'm here to, you know, make my legacy. So I'm just here to make a statement, man. This next fight I'm going out there 100% make this statement. maybe you can get some of that Carla Carla Asparza juju going man that performance was sick man that was unreal like she did exactly what she needed to do and I mean she should be fighting for the belt next like there should be no discussion. Dana White should already come out on a live microphone and said Carla Sparza is fighting Rosamma Yunus next. There's a story there after that performance.

How can you deny her man? Yeah man. The biggest thing I've learned about this game is it's not always. fair, you know, you know, you can do everything right and not get the result you want. And, you know, Carl's done everything right. She won five in a row. Stop, you know, this big name, you know, opponent, her last fight, dominated her. I think it was a 10-8 round, the first round, second round was going to be a 10-8 round, and she wasn't get stopped. There's nothing, you know, she's done everything right. It's all just a matter of, you know, someone's saying,

yeah, you're getting a title shot or not. It's all about numbers, all about. money. So it's not always fair. So I'm hoping she gets what she deserves, but if not, I know she'll be ready to take the next person down, make it six in a row and get that title shot if that's what needs to happen. But I believe she should get the title shot next. Last thing, I am curious because we sort of brushed on this before. How would you, how would you describe your relationship with the media these days? Like we said earlier, like you don't do a lot of interviews anymore. You used to do a bunch. You don't do much anymore. So I was happy to get the heads up for this one because we hadn't talked in a while.

But I mean, how would you describe your relationship with us, the media right now? With media, I don't got a problem with the media. I mean, the only person I really fucking can't stand is for Alkamoto. You know what I mean? After he made that tweet, I just feel like after he made that tweet about, oh, who could be Davidson after I just be just her, have Braden have to be just her. basically I just felt like he had put down all my hard work that I did my whole entire life to get to the point of the brink of a toddler shot whether I won the fight or not with Davidson it's a different story but you know for him to say like oh who can beat this guy I don't think

anybody can beat him I think Cody you know for me I felt like it was a slap in my face like trying to tell you know someone could do your job better so I didn't like that that's probably the only person I do not like it and I don't know personally just work wise probably a person I don't really like. But media, I mean, I don't mind it right now. You know, I got kind of, I got kind of yelled at. But it was more because, you know, Christina takes care of the baby at night.

So I got to take care of the baby in the morning. And for me, media is like kind of like whatever. You know, I don't post too much on Instagram, mostly by my son or anything. And I just like that I don't spend as much time with my kids, you know, especially during this busy time at camp. I don't get to spend too much time with them. Even when I'm not in.

bike camp. I'm at the gym 99% of the time. So I was just like, it's one of those things like, man, like give up time my kids, you know, I'm in, I told my, I'm being in Vegas this week. I can do some interviews. I'm away from my son. So I can do interviews now. But I'm home. I literally put my phone down and I'm hanging out of my kid all day. And no, like I said, nothing against the media. I just right to hang out of my son. Then, you know, talk to everybody. It's just one of those things. I'm a very prior person. I'm really hang out of my kid and family and friends. And no offense. talk to you guys. Oh, no, listen, I totally understand where you're coming from. So, yeah,

I was just curious. Like, it's just, it's just nice, you know, you're on the road. We could do some interviews. It works out. So, but I'm glad we were able to do this. I'm excited to see you back in there in around four weeks or so against Matchnell, big one at 1-25. I appreciate the time, my man. Great catching up. Congrats and the new additions to the family and, uh, and best of luck in the fight on August 28th. Thanks, man. I appreciate you having me on, man. I really do enjoy talking to you. There's a couple people I super enjoy talking to and you're one of them. You know, you always keep it nice and, you know, you're a good time to talk to. So I appreciate you having me on, man. There he is Alex Perez, the Wiley veteran. Just a good dude. Good dude.

Has just a professional attitude when it comes to M.A. From a coaching perspective, from a fighter perspective, the guy just gets it, very respectful and humble guy. And I always appreciate getting Alex Perez on the show because it's not easy to do. He doesn't do a ton of media, a ton of interviews. He's, and I understand why, which is, which is good for him. So you get ready to wrap up the show this week. Appreciate you guys checking us out. Don't forget, what is?

It's going to be Tuesday when this drops. I know it's Monday. So 13 days from right now is the return of the MMA hour to MMAFighting. com. Ariel Hwani is back in your lives right here on M.A. Fighting. It's going to kick off August 16th, 13 days from right now. And then August 18th.

two days after that, a second show. Mondays and Wednesdays, the return of the mixed martial arts hour right here on MNAFighting.com. A lot of people have still been asking me, what does that mean for the future of this show? I don't know yet. We're working on that. But from what we've been discussing, some of the ideas that we've come up with, I'm pretty excited about it. I'll just leave it at that. More info on that coming soon.

Of course, UFC 265 coming up this week, our own. Casey Liden will be in Houston, his home away from home, covering the event. So he'll be out there bringing you the media day on Wednesday. We've got a press conference on Thursday, weigh-ins on Friday, and of course the fight's on Saturday. And it's going to be a good week, Cyril Gahn versus Derek Lewis for the interim heavyweight title. The co-made event is just bananas. Jose Aldo versus Pedro Munoz. Very much looking forward to that.

The whole card is pretty darn good. I know it's not UFC 264. don't have Nate Diaz and Connor and some of the biggest stars on the sport on this card. But top to bottom, if you're just looking at like really quality matchups, it's a damn good card. And it should be good. Should be one of those ones. You just say like, if I'm on the fence, take the risk. It's kind of got UFC 199 vibes to it, if you know what I mean.

So we'll see what happens there. We're getting ready to get on out of here. Thank you once again. I know already said that, but that's it. Big thank you to Casey on the production. He'll be on Houston, like I just said. Big thank you to Alex and Jose for the social clips. All the fun and the graphics they do for the show means a lot.

And until next week, when we're back at it again, have a heck of a week, everybody. We'll leave you with my chats with somebody competing at UFC 265 on Saturday, Casey Kenney. All right, let us welcome back to the program. Casey Kenny, who joins us a few days away from his return to action. He's going to face Song Ya Dong to kick off the main card this Saturday at UFC 265 in Houston, Texas. Casey, good to see you, man. How are you? Good to see you as well. I'm doing great. It's Fight Week. One of the best weeks of camp and, man, just getting things ready and head out in the morning. There you go. Hoping on a plane tomorrow, heading out to the Lone Star State. How excited are you to get out to Houston, get back in that octagon, and be prepared to fight in front of fans again?

I'm excited, man. I've had a couple experiences with the fans as a fan myself, you know, here in the last few months. and made me even more excited to be a part of, you know, of roaring crowd. And finally on the main card now. So I feel like last time we had fans, I was kicking off like the early prelims. So didn't really have many fans in house then anyway. So it's going to be, it's going to be exciting to have a whole, you know, crowd full of people. Were you at 263? I was.

I was. What was that like, man? That was my first like, oh, shit. I forgot how awesome it is to have them. you know, a whole arena full of people. You know, the last, I think it's been the last four fights. I fought with no crowd. And, you know, it's cool.

It's got its own perks and a little thing. But, you know, we're gladiators, man. We like to have a whole arena full of people. Just to see, I mean, there's lots of special moments that happened in the sport. And I think oftentimes the crowd becomes a big part of that. But seeing Brandon Moreno win a world title like that and seeing the reaction he got, how he took it all in. And it's just such a cool moment to be there and be in that arena and see that live.

Like, what was that like to see? I mean, I was the one of the guys chanting, you know, oh, Brendan Murray. So I was right there, man, you know, I got to witness the whole thing. I was jumped up and down for him. So it was amazing. It was a great experience. And then obviously, you know, Nate Diaz walking out, you know, getting to see that live and feel the energy of that, you know.

it's one of a kind. Yeah, out of Sanya, that was cool walk out. I mean, it was a good night. Yeah, all of them, man, all of them. It's been an interesting year for you because the last time we saw you compete, it was against Dominic Cruz, and you had a very entertaining fight

with the guy that many feel is the greatest fan of weight of all time, and unfortunately you were on the wrong end of a split decision, but I think you had a good account of yourself, for sure. I think a lot of people agree with me on that, and even though you didn't get your hand raised, I know it sucks to lose,

but were you able to take positives out of that fight, with Dominic after sharing 15 minutes with him? Yeah, always, man. No matter what happens in there, always some positive stuff that you can take from it. You know, like you said, I lost the, you know, the fight on the judge's scorecard,

but there's a lot of good things that happened in there. You know, got to bust up, you know, one of the greatest at all times and, you know, got to share the octagon with him. So always improve and always trying to get better, you know, take the good things and kind of, you know, bounce back. Did you agree with the decision?

Like, did you go back and watch it? I mean, I thought I got two rounds. Obviously, I'm a biased person, but, you know, I thought round three was obviously him, you know, the only round you got to take down. Round two, I busted him up pretty good and I stuffed all his takedowns. So I felt like I had that one. So now you got round one. And, you know, besides slipping a couple times, he only hit me a couple times in that round. And I also stuffed all his takedowns.

So, you know, not to dwell on it too much. But, yeah, I thought I got two rounds there. Hearing you say that, I'm curious your thoughts on this. Is there such thing as a moral victory in M.A.? Like, is there such thing as that, like taking a former divisional king to the limit, you feel like you came out of that with a win, that you won two rounds? Like, is there a moral victory here? Like, do you step into this fight in Houston feeling like you just beat Dominic Cruz?

Is that confidence there? You know, when the judge's decision came, I wasn't super thrilled with my performance. You know, I thought I could have done more. I could have done better. So whether I lost or won in that aspect, you know, I, you know, fought my ass off, but I felt like I could have done better in the fight. You know, I wanted to put Dominic Cruz away, and I felt like I could have done that. And just, you know, didn't really get the chance to do it in the fight.

So no matter what the judge's scorecard came or, you know, what the judges decided on, on that fight, you know, I knew I needed to get back to work and improve, but that's the game. And, you know, win or lose in that dominant cruise fight, I'm coming to take your head off in the next one. There you go. It certainly didn't take much away in terms of how the UFC views you moving for, because they're giving you this fight with Song Yidong, a perennial top 15 guy. And they're throwing you guys on this main card of a big pay-per-view. Like, what was your reaction to getting the matchup and then being on a paper view yet again? I think this is your third in a row, is it not?

Yeah, you know, this time I actually get to be on the pay-per-view portion, but if you ever watch me fight and you ever watch a song fight, what a better pay-per-view opener, you know, as a fight fan. No words need to be said there. Did you like the matchmaking? Like, at first I was like, oh, this is good, but then you kind of dig a little deeper. And I thought, like, I don't know if Strange is the right word, but he just fought Kyler Phillips. and I know you've trained with Kyler a thousand times at this point, and then they throw you in with, throw them in there with you. Were you surprised to see the matchup, or were you, like, were you not surprised by it?

I actually, I called it right after the Dominic fight. I was like, I bet they're going to pair me with song. One, we just, we both took, you know, close, I guess he won one way around there. You know, decision losses that night, and I had already been paired to fight song back in December. You know, the contracts were written and all that stuff. And it was kind of short notice, and he ended up backing out. Never fought in December. That's where the Dominic fight came about.

But before the Dominic fight, my next fight was supposed to be sunk. So I figured they were going to, you know, pair us back up and try it again. So here we are. I know every fight's different. Every fighter approaches every fight differently. But did you take a lot from Kyler's performance that you could kind of implement for yourself on Saturday? Yeah, for sure. I think in his last three fights, you know, guys have been able to.

take them down, control them a little bit. And that's how they, you know, want some rounds, won the fight on song. And I think that's just, you know, you're looking at my two losses in the UFC. You know, those are the two fights that I was headhunting with my fists. You know, I didn't mix it up like I wanted to. And, you know, I think it's going to be, you know, back to the drawing board, I think is going to be another one where I went and adjusted some things. And, you know, we're going to have come out victorious.

Did was your training camp similar to to the normal ones like kind of cross-training at different gyms doing some different things like how did it all work out? Is it the same as normal? Yeah, same as normal. You know, the MMA lab and rise combat sports bouncing back and forth between the two. And you know, when I prepare for a fight, I like to sharpen, you know, everything I have. Obviously, I pay attention to a few things that my opponent does well, see how they move. But, you know, you can throw me anyone with anyone. know, on fight night. And I'm confident because, you know, I prepared, you know, everything that I

have. And that's pretty much how I, you know, approach every fight camp. Make sure I'm ready to go in every aspect of MMA and, you know, see what happens. I felt like Kyler beating Song Yudong. That was like a breakout performance for him. Like I put him in the rankings. People got to see how good he was because they know how good song is. And he got some buzz off of that. Do you feel like you could get that same rub, so to speak, that beating guy like song? kind of tips the proverbial cup over in your favor, if you will? Yeah, I mean, I just fought Dominic Cruz, and I put on a hell of a 20-20. So, you know, songs fought a handful of guys, but I feel like we're, you know,

we're pretty even there on, like, the type of competition that we fought. And I think it may even have a stronger schedule. Guy like Kyler, I train with him all the time. I know exactly how good he is, you know, and he got to show that against song. And, you know, I even got to show a lot of great things in his last fight. You know, take some good things out of that. And like you said, every fight's different. Honestly, I envision this fight with the crowd, the bell ringing and pointing down to the center, putting my hands in the air and being, you know, who steps back first.

There you go. What did you think of the judging of that fight for Kyler? Like, how do you not give him a 10-8 in that first? It's insane. It's absolutely insane. Right. You know, I thought if, you know, the other guy won the last two rounds, 10-9, then, you know, Tyler, definitely got a 10-8 in the first. but you know he kind of he's kind of in the same mindset you know uh sucks to lose but

we you know put our heart out there and get back to the drawing board and get better i'm core of course i'm sure when you saw that this fight car is taking place in houston i'm sure clicked right away bonus structure is getting a little bit of a boost 75 000 the last time they were there we saw it with 264 75 000 i don't know if there's a regular thing for paper views or just a houston thing i don't know but that's you got to believe that 75 g's is a possibility for you, right? Do you feel like this is going to happen again? Yeah, I mean, if no one says anything or I don't hear anything during the day in a meeting,

I might have to raise my hand. I might have to raise my hand and, you know, grow some balls and ask the man himself. So we'll see what happens. But I feel like this fight's kind of like the Nathaniel Wood fight. You know, even though you're on a big pay-per-view, like I went into that card confident that if Nathaniel Wood goes away, I'm going to get a bonus. If he doesn't, it's probably going to be fight of the night. And I see song, you know, in the same picture.

You know, if I put a song you don't away, I'd probably get in a bonus. If I don't, then we go to the final bell, it's probably going to be a fight of the night type of fight. So I like my chances on getting those bonuses. There you go. Well, I'm sure you would prefer a performance of the night bonus. So how do we get this thing done? It's going to be a full house, main card opener. everyone's going to be there getting ready for it how do you set the table for the rest of this card

uh man any of the rounds i'm going to put him away i'm coming i'm coming full force and i think i'm going to catch him and maybe finish him with some ground and pound later on in the evening in the festivities there's another big bannamweight fight co-main event josea aldo versus pedro munoz really good fight who do you like in that one i assume you will uh you will be having your eye on that fight. Yeah, definitely. You know, after the cruise fight, I wanted to call out Jose Aldo and kind of go on my legend tour. But, man, I'm a huge fan of Aldo, a fan of Munoz as well, but I'd like to see the legend Aldo get another W there. You got to pick for the main event, Derek Lewis versus Cyril gone? Man, I'm going to go Derek Lewis by K-O because that's what he does.

That he does. And doing it in Houston, that's going to be a thunderous, uh, ruckus applause from the Toyota. Yeah, man, I can't go against Derek Lewis on any picks until after the Houston card, you know, I'm trying to get those Houston fans on my side. Well said. Well said. But Casey, I appreciate the time as always, especially so close to a big fight like this. Safe travels to Houston.

All the best to you in the showdown to kick off the main card and the deepest division in the UFC. It'll be on display and kicks off with this fight between yourself and Song You Don. Thank you again, sir. All the best. you and we'll see you on Saturday. Thanks, Mike. Always a pleasure. I'll talk to you soon. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.