MMA Fighting - What the Heck: Episode 8 | Colby Covington, Chase Sherman & Kevin Holland

Episode Date: May 21, 2020

Check out episode 8 of What the Heck with Mike Heck on MMA Fighting. This week, Mike speaks with UFC middleweight Kevin Holland (4:20) to recap his first-round TKO win at UFC on ESPN 8 and what he wants next. Former UFC interim welterweight champion Colby Covington (22:03) explains why a fight didn't happen with Tyron Woodley and wanting fights with Kamaru Usman, Jorge Masvidal and WWE champion Drew McIntyre. UFC heavyweight Chase Sherman (45:18) discusses his successful return to the promotion at UFC Jacksonville.  Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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What the heck? Well, hello there, everybody. Welcome to a brand new edition of What the Heck on MMAfighting.com. My name is Mike Heck. Hope you're all having a great week. And I hope you are all enjoying this last reprieve from MMA and the UFC for quite some time. We're coming off three events in eight days, starting with UFC 249, wrapping up with UFC on ESPN 8, all those events taking place in Jacksonville, and

this trio of events had it all, right? Big finishes. There are some questionable judging and decisions, some really good back and forth scraps, the events, the fights, they were very good. I enjoyed them very much. I know a lot of you guys did as well. We're not going to dive into the specifics of the events. We cover them all during our event post shows. So you can head back into the archives and get our thoughts on those events via our YouTube page, which you're probably watching this right now, or wherever it is you're listening to this right now, wherever it is you find your favorite podcasts.

The UFC is off this weekend, but then next Saturday, May 30th, they're going to be off and running again. There are cards, at least with fights being finalized on them through June 20,000. So every Saturday night from next Saturday, May 30th through all of June, you're going to get a UFC card. So if you've been missing MMA, you want more, you're going to get it. And a lot of these cards are starting to come together. But I have had a lot of people reach out to me over the last couple of days after we reported a bunch of fights for future cards. And they're excited that these events are coming together.

But there is a concern right now amongst fans because as we record this, there's only, four fights officially announced for next Saturday night's event, which includes the main event between Tyron Woodley and Gilbert Burns. So here's what I know from a general sentence, okay? The UFC is having a bit of difficulty putting this card together. It's to be expected with everything going on in the world. But I can't dive into all the specifics at this very moment, but I can tell you that there are, to my knowledge, at least five or six fights that have been at least verbally agreed upon. A couple of them are really, really interesting too. And hopefully we will be able to share that information soon, maybe even later on in the program. But what a fun show

this is going to be nonetheless. So let's get to the lineup. Let's get right into this thing. You don't want to hear from me anymore. You want to hear from the fighters. Later on in the show, one of the big winners from UFC Jacksonville. Last Wednesday, he returned to the UFC, picked up a big TKO win to kick off the card over Ikeville and Oweva. Chase Sherman is going to join us to recap his victory, his

road back to the Octagon, and much more. I really enjoyed this conversation. I really wish I could have had an extra 30 minutes or so with him, but unfortunately we were on a time schedule and we ran out of time. Sandwich in the middle of two recent winners from that eight-day stretch, we're going to hear from

Colby Covington. He returns to the show, and man, does he have a lot to say and a lot to get off his chest? I know this isn't surprised a lot of you, but I will say when this conversation was over, I was like, whoa, this was something else. So we'll speak with Colby Chaos Covington in a little under 20 minutes from right now. But first we're going to kick things off with one of the big winners from Saturday night's card, UFC on ESPN 8, Kevin Holland, who defeated Anthony Hernandez, took him a little over 90 seconds to get the job done.

his first finish in the UFC via strikes. He does have a submission win under his belt and the Trailblazer, as you guys may have heard during the post-fight press conference, and you'll hear more in this conversation right now. He doesn't want to rest for very long. In fact, he doesn't really want to rest at all. He has some names in mind. So let's hear from the man himself,

one of the big winners from Saturday, Kevin Holland, right now. All right, we're being joined by one of the big winners from Saturday nights event in Jacksonville, Florida. It took him a little over 90 seconds to put away Anthony Hernandez. back in the wind column is the trailblazer. Kevin Holland. How are you, man? Doing good.

Doing good. How about you still? Doing great. You don't even look like you've been in a fight, man. Nah, you know, little unskeep. I don't think that sucks. That was a hell of a performance on Saturday night. First finish of your UFC career, how does it all feel less than 48 hours later?

It feels pretty good. You know what I mean? The chance for getting a fight in two weeks. So, you know, back at the gym today, you know, to have a lot. happy to get there. There you go. I'll admit it. I know I'm not alone here because the odds makers looked at it the same way. I thought this is sort of a coin flip fight on paper because Anthony is a very tough guy. He was coming off the submission winning his last fight and you went in there and delivered that performance that people had been waiting to see from you since you got into the UFC.

I mean, of course, getting the win is top priority. But how important was it for you to go in there and make a statement like you did on Saturday night? It was pretty important. You know what I mean? definitely wanted to make a good statement, but I think overall, you know what I mean? Just wanted to go out there and be a vintage kev. You know, I didn't want to do too much. Didn't want to do too little. I wanted to go out there and kind of like my back of my XKO days. I wanted to perform, you know?

That was tight. Do you pay attention to like the outside noise at all? Because it seems like everybody has been universally high on you. And everyone felt like you had a ton of potential. and everyone felt like the type of performance that you had on Saturday, that you had that in you and then you finally let it out on Saturday night. Is that something that you pay attention to maybe for a little extra locker room material or anything like that? Yeah, I mean, I see everything.

You know what I mean? I see it all. I go through all the comments and stuff. You know what I mean? I have a good time with it. But ultimately, no, you know what I mean? What I was going to do is what I was going to do. You know what I wasn't too much stressing anybody else.

I knew what I wanted. You know, I wanted a quick check. That'd be nice. So went ahead and tried to get this quick check. And it happened. You know, it was like, he wanted to test cardio. So I was, I mean, I was prepared to do what we had to do. But, you know, if I can get the fight overweight quick, let's do it.

Speaking of having fun, talk about two totally different demeanors heading into that fight. Like even on Saturday, you walk to the cage, loose as a goose, you're smiling, you're dancing, you're singing. You're having a good time. And then Anthony comes out looking intense, look to have been staring you down the entire time. How would you describe that feeling? of making that walk and preparing to get locked in a cage for upwards of 15 minutes. Like what goes on in your mind? Let's have fun.

You know what I mean? It's a party. You see I'm dancing. I'm jigging. I'm ultimately, I like it. Yeah, I really, really love fighting. So it's no stress to me. You know what I'm like?

I'm about to get my check. Let's go. You know, so I'm happy. You know what I mean? You never know how the fight's going to turn out, you know, but you always hope that it turns out something like that. So, I mean, for it to turn out the way it turned out, I was happy with it.

You landed that beautiful knee to the body that set up the finish of the fly. Was there something in the preparation that led you to believe that the body would be a big target for you? Yeah, I got a teammate, you know, when he starts to cut a lot of weight or when he starts to slim down too much, his body gets a little softer than usual. And to me, they were built the same. So I was like, I got a feeling the body would be soft. And so we've been going over the elbow into the knees. And so vintage boy tie type stuff with a lamb strike consistent twist, you know,

you put that little angle on it after you get it done. So through the elbow, kind of cut the angle a little bit, through the knee to the body. I thought my second knee would do it. You know what I mean? I thought it was going to have to be a couple reinforced knees. But the first knee, I heard him go, ooh. And so I just followed up with a combo.

You know what I mean? A couple of knees. And then he was going down. So I was like, strike it out. You know what I mean? Just keep pounding. And ref pulled me off. And I was like, hey, hey, hey, hang the talk.

I didn't slap him. You know what I mean? I do none of my signature things. But it's all right? Right, it's a check. You know what I mean? I like the checks. Maybe that's a sign now. You don't have to say anything or slap anybody. You just get quick checks and move on to the next one. You know, honestly, I like it because it's like the clout. You know what I mean? Get a little clout when you finish people like that. I was at like 7K on Instagram. You know what I'm at like 11. I'm like, ooh, look at all these honeys in my inbox. Let's go, buck off. And now you've got all these Johnny Come Lately reporters coming out trying to talk to you, I bet. I've been talking to you for a while, so I don't consider myself that kind of a guy.

Nah, nah, you know, I don't, I only do interviews because my manager tells me to, you know, I, like, when I first got in UFC, I was like, I'll take any interview. And he was like, no, no, no, no, only do the ones I tell you to do. So if they're not hitting up Warren, you know what I mean, or hitting up my boy, you know what I mean, Justin Adams, I'm not going to get in trouble. You know, I don't want to get cussed out with my manager. So, sorry, man. That's what you got to do, man. Yeah. It's, there's a lot of talk about fighting in an empty arena, but you fought on the contender series in 2018.

So this is, and this is before the Apex and the bleachers were. full of people. So fighting in an empty arena wasn't a huge change for you, I'd assume. No, I mean, ultimately, it almost felt like a street fight. You know what I mean? You got in there and it was like nobody. It was like when he pulled me off, I was kind of thinking like, oh, at first I didn't think about the ref. Like when he first went to touch me, I really wasn't thinking about the ref. You know what I mean? It's kind of like got locked in. And then like when he like pulled me off, I was like, oh, the cops were pulling me off. Like I'm in trouble. You know what I mean? Then I realized like, no, no, we're in the fight. We're in the fight. We're

good to go. I like it like that. I was old school. It's still that way. I like it that way. It was good. Does that happen to you before? Yeah, you know, been a lot of street fights. You know what I mean?

You're your kid. You're a fight at school. Security guard touches you. You know, stay there. Try to run. Ah, hopefully I don't know who I am. You know what I mean? So, yeah, I mean, it was nice.

I like it a lot. What did you think of the overall fight week experience during a global pandemic, the testing sort of being sequestered to one location overall? What was that like for you? Test. In the nose. hated that. But overall,

I thought it was cool, man. You know, we were a little isolated. We don't have to worry about random people in the lobby trying to take pictures and stuff. I mean, that's dope, but I mean, that's what the mock way ends, you know, when we go do it for the people, that's what that's for. You know, that's what five weeks are for and stuff like that. Certain days are for that. But

sometimes when you're walking through the lobby, you know, you just want a place to relax. You know what I mean? I want to be stuck in your room the whole time. So I like it. And I enjoyed the whole experience. I like it either way. I mean, to me, it really doesn't make a difference. You know what I mean? we get a little piece, we get the piece. If there's a lot of people, we get a lot of people.

Me personally coming off a loss, I mean, I wanted to just zero in, and I zeroed in. And I, you know, I get to see what I can be like inside the UFC if I zero in. And it was nice. Do you feel like a different guy now? Do you feel like the momentum is swung in your favor and that you're kind of on this rocket ship, so to speak? I mean, I don't know yet.

It's just one fight. You know what I mean? It's like, it's going to get like three or four in a row, you know? So that's more so what I'm worried about, you know, one fight. I don't really feel like it makes a big difference. You know, I'm still coming off a loss. You know what I'm? So it's like I still got choked out. You know what I mean?

I finished the guy. I finished a guy that beat a guy that beat me. You know what I mean? That finished me. So it's like it's good, but it's not good enough. You're not letting yourself get too excited. You're happy with the win, ready to come back in two weeks, but we're not going to get too excited yet.

Yeah, yeah. If I can come back two weeks, you know, against Mickey Gall, you know, and I beat Mickey Gall. I feel like that makes up for it. You know what I mean? We could argue who has better jihitsu, you know, Alan or golf. You know, so I feel like, I feel like that be dope, you know, and it's like, damn, wouldn't that be wonderful?

I submit WikiGong, you know what I mean? Everybody's like, you're going to knock them out. I mean, if I tap them out. So that'd be pretty dope. So what's the latest on this potential quick turnaround for you? I will say that I was texting back and forth with Oden on Friday or on Saturday during the fight, and I was like, damn, what a great win. And we were kind of talking because I was like, is there,

Could he actually come back and fight again in two weeks? And he basically gave me a smiley face emoji and here we are. So how real is this? Is something in the works here? Yeah, so I think it's in the works. So if we get, you know, Mickey Gaugh, you know, if he accepts the fight, you know what I mean? That's dope because, you know, I may accept the fight. I'm really in the fight.

But if he doesn't, you know what I mean? In two to three weeks, they need somebody to go again. It's like, if something happens with the Vatori fight, you know, I know I'm supposed to be committed to the 170 thing right now. but it's like, like I said, something happens with the Vatori fight. I want Marvin Vittori. You know, and it's like, it's probably not the smartest fight to take, but he's running his mouth. So for me, it's the smartest fight to take if it comes around.

I'll take it, you know, so whatever the wind blows, I would love to take the Mickey Golf fight. But Vittori, kind of feel like he's a dumb fighter. So, yeah, it would be a fun fight. So, like, what happened? I mean, you got a little heated at the post fight talking about Marvin. And you sort of got into why you were so upset with him. But you know, you call him a name that I'm not really going to say here.

But, you know, what's sort of the antithesis of how this all came to be? Like, why are you not completely fond of him? I called him a cat and a snake. Let's put it that way. I called him a cat and snake. First and foremost, he shook my hand. You know what I mean? He shook my hand down in the lobby.

We talked about fighting. I told him I'd be down to fight Wednesday. And then I'd be down to turn around and fight Saturday night, you know. And if that wasn't the case, you know what I mean? I said, if they're down to make it a tournament base, like a tournament format and I'll fight you, you know, I'll fight you know, I'll fight you. Trying to get this camera back right. There we go. I'll fight you, you know what I mean?

A couple times. You know what I mean? Like, however we got to do it, I don't care. You know what I mean? Like I'm trying to make it so that way you get your fight. You get a chance to make show and win money or you can just take a show. I don't care. You know what I mean?

I'm just trying to help you out. So we talked, you know, it was a good conversation. I thought it was really respectful. I thought it was nice. Then he went upstairs. I guess he dropped something on Instagram talking about these babysitting these guys were a bunch of babies.

He's putting us in a stroller. And he said he's going to put me in the stroller because I turned down to fight with him. And I'm like, you know, I'm like trying to figure out like, when did I turn down to fight with you? You know, and he's like, oh, you turned out to fight with me April 18th. So I'm kind of upset.

Like, bro, we just shook hands. We just had a good man-to-man conversation and then you're going to go and you're going to do some like weird shit on Instagram. You know what I mean? Like, well, you know what I mean? So I was like, all right, that's, that's where I say the cat part. You know what I mean?

Because you had anything to say it. You could have just said it to my face. You know what I mean? You're right there. And then Snake, because once again, you shook my hand and then you went upstairs and you did that. So it's like, I don't know, I just feel disrespecting as a man. And then you came down in the lobby after I won the fight and you're like trying to touch me and ask me if I'm healthy and stuff. And it's like, bro, I told you.

You know what I mean? I told the whole organization. We can run two fights one night. Or you can let me fight Wednesday and you can let me fight Saturday. You know what I mean? Like, I left the fight with no injuries. You know what I mean? I didn't get hit.

I was, I knew what I was coming to do. You know what I mean? I was coming to collect a check. I was some Donald Serrani type stuff. I was cowboy, you know what I mean? Let's get you up. These E-Haw, let's go, whatever the case was going to be. And I was ready, you know what I mean?

I liked the way it was going to go, but it didn't happen like that. So we'll see, you know. I'll still want more than Vorty. So it seems like Vitori, from everything that I've heard, Votori and Roberson looks like they're going to run that one back at a later date. Makes sense. You know, it makes sense. But, you know, if something happens where Mickey Gaugh just happens where he just,

he's too scared to fight or he has, you know, something going on, you know what I mean? I don't know. You know what I mean? I haven't heard nothing back yet. You know, as far as no concern, I called him out in the cage. You know, I'm pretty sure he was watching the fights. I thought I ought to get a tweet right then there or something. You know what I mean?

It's like, can't do that, you know? I mean, I mean, I'm already ready for 185. You know what I mean? Can Marvin Vittori cut weight? two weeks again. You know what I mean? I don't know. He was drinking in the lobby. You know what I mean? Maybe his body can't handle it. He was trying to fight at 205. You know, and it was like, it was weird. You know what I mean? It's like, you could have, you could have campaigned hard for me that day, but instead you're campaigning hard for Neil Magni at 205. He's a 170-pound guy. It's like,

cat. Has the UFC expressed interest in the golf fight? Have they approached you with it for that date or just kind of going by the callout on Saturday? I mean, I kind of, you know, called them out for a reason, you know? So, I mean, I would like that fight. I think they would like that fight. It's just a matter of whether God is going to take the fight or not. Because, you know, I mean, as far as I'm concerned,

I ain't heard nothing yet. So, I mean, like I said, if it was me, I was watching the fight, somebody said my name, I'd have been like, hey, tweet them. I don't run my Twitter, so I'd be told my manager. I'm like, hey, tweet them, let them know. Like, you know what I want to fight? But I ain't seen that yet.

So you're just waiting. You're verbally agreed on. on your side, just waiting on an agreement from his side. What kind of questioning the boy? You know what I mean? Let me know if I got to eat salads or if I can go ahead and eat state. You know what I mean? Just let me know. Have you been impressed with what he's done? I mean, he's had some ups and downs. He's a young guy. He doesn't have the experience that you have.

But, you know, he's gone through the ringer. He's trying to learn and get better in this game like you are. What have you made of what he's been able to do so far in his career? I mean, props to him. He's fighting in the UFC, the toughest organization in the room. You know what I mean? It's like a lot of my fights are outside of the UFC. So it's like, you know, I guess we can just calculate what we've done to opponents that are in the UFC or what we've done in the UFC. So up and down just as well as him. You know what I mean? It's like his wins are based off submissions.

My losses are based off with submissions and people trying to hunt me usually. So it's like I think it's a good fight for him. And I think it's a good fight for me as well to test myself. And at the same time, let's be honest. I'm light years ahead and we're going to stand up. So it's like he's going to have. have to shoot. He's not to die for the legs. You know what I mean? And I respect that because I know that's what he's coming in there. So take the freaking fight, boy. So as we're

recording right now, on a scale of 1 to 10, how confident are you that you'll be fighting on May 30th? I'm 50-50 right now. I'm 50-50 right now. You know what I mean? Maybe May 30th, maybe the week after, if there's a fight card the week after, you know, I mean, maybe tomorrow at the gym, if Marvin Vittori wants a plane ticket out here, I'll pay for it. You know what I mean? It's like, who knows? You know, I want smoke. I know that much.

I want to fight. Speaking of checks, no offense to anyone else who got bonuses on Saturday night, but you got the quickest finish of the night. Were you pissed that you didn't get an extra $50,000 bucks? No, because we were talking about fighting again in two weeks. So I was like, hey, if I get to fight again in two weeks, you know what I mean? Or two to three weeks? 50K, I ain't worried about it.

You know what I mean? That's a new contract. You know what I mean? That's a bigger name. That's a better spot in my life. I mean, 50K is nice, but it's not just about the money. You know what I mean? I really, really like the fight.

So 50K would have been nice. I could help Grandma and Pop move out here, you know what I mean, trying to get in my house. But, I mean, 50K ain't just enough for a house. I'd have to have a 50K two times in a row. So maybe if they gave me 50K for that fight and I can go do it, I'm about to do again, then, you know what I mean, two 50Ks in a row.

That would have been, you know what I mean? That's nice. Yeah, that's a nice, but it's all right. You're cool with it? Yeah. So perfect world you get back in a few weeks. Let's do this thing. Let's get right back on the horse.

And as you know, and it's only been one fight, but momentum is a big thing in this sport, as you know. And you seem to have it right now coming off that big win over Anthony Hernandez. I appreciate you giving us so much time, Kevin. Anything else you want to get off your chest before we wrap this up, sir? Any shoutouts or anything like that? You know what? I'm not going to do all that because my phone, you know, I keep doing the tilt thing.

But I'm going to say this right here right now. I'm going to get my own Skype and I'm going to get me a laptop. And I'm going to get me a little platform. We can set the laptop up, and we're going to have a little, we ain't going to be worried about that no more. See what I'm saying? I messed it all up. We ain't going to be worried about that no more. I got it.

Next time we'll get this right. All right, man. And hopefully that can be the first one. We can knock this thing out like that, like the good old days. I would have Warren text you as soon as I get a laptop. There you go. I love your attitude right now. Congratulations on the win, Kevin.

Thank you for the time. Hopefully you get that fight with Mickey Gaw. I would actually be very interested to see how that one would play out. So thank you. Take the fight so I can get a laptop. I'll text him right now. Thanks, boss. Thanks, man.

Take care. There he is Kevin Holland, the Trailblazer himself. And let me just say, the man can talk. You know that already. But I've been interviewing Kevin Holland for a while now. And that's a very focused Kevin Holland. Not saying the guy who came into the UFC on short notice, excuse me, against Tiago Santos, wasn't focused.

But that was my big takeaway. This guy doesn't just want to win fights, doesn't want to just be entertaining in the and on the mic, he wants to make a big move in 2020. And a little update, I'm not sure as we record if this has been officially announced yet. Maybe it has by the time you hear this. But I'm comfortable enough to say that per sources, and you might be disappointed that I can't give you all of it, but he's got to get the quick turnaround that he asked for. But it's not going to be against either of the two gentlemen that he referenced and called

out in that conversation. That information from what I am told is going to be revealed very, very soon. so expect Kevin Holland to bounce back rather quickly just like he wanted. As we move ahead to the number two ranked contender at 170 pounds in the UFC, he makes a little history here on what the heck, not because it's his second appearance on the show. That's part of it, but because he had a lot to get off his chest. So here it is my conversation with Colby Chaos Covington.

All right, we move ahead to the first fighter to make multiple appearances on what the heck he joined us for episode two. Now, Chaos has returned to the program. Let us check in with Colby Chaos Covington after a crazy week of fights in Jacksonville. Colby, thanks for doing this. How are you, sir? I'm doing great, man. Can't ever complain, man.

Live in the American dream. Just thankful for everything I have and everything that's coming my way in the future. Well, we know you had your opinions on how these fights might go over the last week with videos you posted leading in, which are just something else to watch, by the way. how did you do at the virtual betting window, so to speak, during the trio of events in the Sunshine State? I did pretty well, you know. I definitely made some money.

You know, not on my picks. I mean, not all the picks that I publicized and put out there on social media won every bet, but hey, I'm not supposed to be the best picker in the world, Mike. I'm the best fighter in the world, so I'm sorry. I can't be the, you know, I'm trying to be the best at multiple things in the world, but betting is unpredictable. Well, anything can happen. So, you know, I just want to apologize to the people that I steer wrong and didn't give the right answer to.

And, you know, anything can happen in a fight, you know, that's as real as it gets. And, you know, it's okay because we're going to get some Trump bucks soon. And Trump's going to send us out another stimulus check. And we're all going to be gravy. There you go. But you made a couple bucks to the betting windows. That's all that matters. But I'm curious, were there any performances in particular that sit out to you?

Like, of course, Justin Gachie became the interim lightweight champion. defeating Tony Ferguson. That one sticks out in a lot of people's minds. But who would be, I guess, your MVP overall from these three events? You know, I'm probably the wrong person to ask because I'll be honest, Mike. I didn't pay attention to events. You know, I just, I had no interest in them. You know, the no fans thing, that's boring enough as it is. And none of the fighters, you know, excited me from the fights. Of course I'm going to make, you know, some predictions, you know, from my betting website that I'm sponsored by, but mybookee.orgie.org. Thanks to the best, undisputed, best sports book in the

world. My bookie, that AG. Shout out to them and how its their clothing, you know, they're doing good things for the troops and our heroes of America. So, big shout out to them as well. When you were last on here, you said that, you know, you wanted to be the guy, the guy to bring sports back in everyone's life. So as these fights cards are being booked, is there a party that's like, damn, like this should have been my spot. This is my place to bring the sport back. Yeah, it was my opportunity to bring the sports world back. But, you know, Dana White and the UFC dropped the ball. They know if they handed me the ball, you know, I'm running in for the end zone. I'm getting a

touchdown, but, you know, they're afraid to give me the ball, but, you know, that's why they're not getting the type of results that they want, you know, if they really want to make the biggest fights possible, then I have to be in them, you know, and I need to be at the top of the marquee. If it's not there, then, you know, the fans aren't going to be interested in it, you know, and you need to give the fans what they want and are begging for, you know, even all my haters, the people that don't want to see it, you know, they still want to see me lose, but it's never going to happen again, especially under a level playing field without Mark so gartered in there who's anti-Brexit and a liberal little cuck and he cheated me out of a

world title so next time's going to be completely different you haven't seen the the best of me yet mike i'm still 32 years young i'm not going anywhere anytime soon so marty fake newsman he can he can keep ducking me as long as he wants i'm not going anywhere i'm going to be right here and i guarantee there's going to be a sequel there's going to be a trilogy to that fight you know and last time i was on here we were talking about drew mcintyre you know mike now you signed a man's death certificate it, you know? I mean, now you're going to have to get Drew McIntyre's blood on your hands because now he's talking all crazy out there like he wants to fight in an un-sacient fight.

I'm not afraid of a fight, man. I love to fight, you know? So, you know, usually, you know, it's a, the world is a strange place right now, Mike. You know, usually I can find anybody whenever I want. Just ask Dana White. But the world's a strange place. So I'm having a hard time finding Drew McIntyre. I'm going to find him soon.

You know, the only person that I've never been able to find is Tyrone Woodley. He's out there, you know, just completely ducking me, having midlife crises on Twitter. He's over on the corner begging for change from the UFC. He'll fight anybody, you know, so he's going to fight a guy named Dilbert. So let me ask you this because there's a lot to unpack there, Coler. A lot, a lot to get into. But let's start with Woodley. And let's start with the UFC.

You said the UFC dropped the ball because you told me a month and a half or so ago that you wanted that fight with Woodley. You wanted it bad. Or you would have taken the rematch with Kamar U. And obviously, like you just mentioned, Woodley is slated to fight Gilbert Burns on May 30th and the main event of that card. So you and Woodley, I still don't understand how this fight hasn't come together. It's the fight everybody wants to see. He's come out and said that you've wanted upwards of $5 million to take that fight. So what happened?

Why did we not get this fight? You know, to be honest, Mike, the reason we didn't get this fight is because the UFC didn't want to give him the fight. You know, the thing is, is his last fight. He looks so washed up, Mike. The UFC wants to see if he has anything left in the tank, you know, so they want to see if he can prove himself to earn the losing ass whoopin paycheck to me. So, you know, this is a test by the UFC that, you know, they're making him fight some kid named Dilbert.

You know, no one even knows who Dilbert is. So, you know, we'll see if he passes that test and he can earn this ass whoopin losing paycheck to me. But, you know, who knows, man. I mean, he's doing a lot of things out there. You know, he's trying to rap. I mean, he's hurting people's ears, dude. he's a freaking dork.

Were we close at all on this like second go-around? Were we close up? Like using a baseball analogy? Were we even rounding seconds at all? Were we close at all? Yeah, we were very close. I thought we had the main event. When Khabib and Tony Ferguson fell through,

I thought for sure 100% I was going to be the main event. But then that date got scrapped and they moved it to three weeks later to Jacksonville. And then they inserted Justin Gage with Tony Ferguson because they wanted to keep him there. So, you know, after that happened. you know, and they already had their other main events for the other two cards. I don't know what happened. You know, all I know is we're still in negotiations with the UFC. You know, they're talking to my agency, Balagy Group and Lloyd Pearson, super manager.

So, you know, I know they're trying to get a deal done, but they know I want the biggest fights possible, Mike. I earned that and I deserve that, you know. So anything less would be a disappointment and I'm not wasting my time. Is it fair? Would you say that the Woodley ship has sailed at this point, or do you still want that fight? I mean, I know it's like a personal thing for you, but if you're looking for the biggest fights possible and, you know, it doesn't seem like you're looking very fondly upon Gilbert Burns right now. Would you say that ship has sailed and you're moving on at this point? You know, it's a long-heated rivalry, you know, it sucks that it was never made before. I think the UFC really dropped the ball with it. You know, it was a big fight, you know, the left and the right. You know, you got, you got red and blue, you know, liberal versus Republican. I mean, everything. You know, the backstory.

of us both training at ATT together and, you know, having a history together, you know, him flying me out to training camps to beat him up before he got beat up by Roy McDonald's. So, you know, it just sucks, you know. But he never wanted to fight me, man. I'm the first guy to ever scare the champion into elected surgery. Elective surgery, Mike. The guy was ready to fight Nate Diaz, some lightweight scrub washup, you know. We know he's the stocked his soy boy.

He was ready to fight him, but he won't fight Kobe Chaos Covington. when I had the real World to Weight Championship, the People's Championship, America's Championship. More importantly, Donald Trump's favorite fighter. So, you know, Tyrone Woodley doesn't want to fight, and the people know that. And, you know, we're moving on from that. Did you see, I know you said you didn't really watch the fight. You weren't all that interested in him.

But did you see the appearance of the president at the beginning of the UFC 249 prelims on ESPN? No, man. I honestly didn't watch the fights at all. you know, I was busy hanging out with chicks, you know, enjoying life, you know, living the mansion party life, you know, so, you know, I'm out enjoying my life. I don't got time to watch, you know, a bunch of gatekeepers in the UFC that don't draw, and nobody cares about, you know, it's so, you know, but, you know, if we're talking about our great president, I would have definitely tuned it if I would have known he was going to be on,

you know, just the things he's doing for this country are unbelievable during this time, you know, and he's done everything he said he was going to do. And now he's exposed in freaking Obama for being the corrupt, you know, last president in office. And maybe the most corrupt president ever in office. So Obamagate, Obamagate. In these crazy times, nothing is set in stone, right? Like, especially now, because it seemed like all paths were leading towards a fight between two of your good buddies, Kamara Usman and Jorge Mazadol for the Walter Way title.

Aina White said in an interview with Brett Alkamoto that he may have, quote, something else interesting for Mazvedal. So we don't really know what the hell is going on right now. But my question is, from your perspective, do you factor into this equation at all? Everybody knows. I factor into every equation. I mean, I'm the biggest draw in the division. I made this division great again. You know, those guys, those guys are both washups.

They're scrubs. No one cares about them because they're fake. Their personalities are, you know, they try and act like good guys in the camera. but really behind the camera, they're pieces of shit. You know, they're cheaters, they're liars. You know, they're just, they're not good people. But, you know, let's be honest, Mike. You remember at the Super Bowl when they tried to manufacture that fake hype?

They, like, pushed each other at the Super Bowl. Oh, come on. What is that in February? If they wanted to fight, they would have fought, Mike. Let's be honest. That was February, March, April, May. That's four months. You're telling me all that manufactured hype, oh, we're going to fight.

each other. Marty fake newsman versus Street Judas Mosidol for the world title, which everybody knows is the fake title. It's the paper title. It's, you know, it's the corrupt title because I was cheated out of the real title and everybody knows I'm the real champ. So if they wanted to fight, they would have fought, Mike, but they don't want to fight. You know, Marty's looking for that easy payday. I don't blame him. Keep looking, you know. But Street Judas Mosfidal thinks he's the hottest thing since sliced bread in the UFC. Dude, you're 50-50, man. You're a journeyman. You're getting you're getting upside down triangle by guys named toby amada beaten up by babboon beaten up by light weights beaten up by by feather weights band of weights i mean the guy's got like 15 losses

he's a journeyman dude he's got you know it's it's pathetic that that he even claims to be one of the best fighters in the world i mean he was just getting beat up by damia mias steven wonder girl thompson less than a couple years ago i mean so you know he doesn't want to fight he's waiting for connor mcgregor and connor mcgregor doesn't give a shit about him i mean you saw with connor at the fight when he beat up seroni he would have called george out he was front row with his little bathing suit freaking his little bathing robe oh i'm in my Gucci bathing robe or bathing suit or a bath robe where the fuck he was wearing but it's a cool fucking gimmick dude journeyman george mouse bottle hit lightning in a bottle and he's trying to capitalize right now and to be honest you

know he's not going to capitalize because he dropped the ball on the marty fake newsman fight and connor doesn't want to fight him so who's going to fight journeyman Would you be interested in a Mazadol fight right now? Because obviously there's some heat here. Is that a fight that's on your list? I know Ousman's probably at the top of your list right now. You really want that rematch. But does Mazadol make that short list for you?

100%. Me and Street Judas Masvedal are 100% going to fight before it's all set of dead. We might fight a couple times because if I see him in the street, it's going to be a fade session. He's going to get put on the concrete. I'm going to drop him on his fucking head and put stitches in the back of his head. It's not going to be nice, Mike. I promise you that.

he knows that deep down inside he knows but he's willing to take a paycheck in the ufc to get his ass whip because he knows the ufc's going to pay his fucking medical bills but besides that if he if if we fight in the street i'm going to drop him on his fucking head and he's never going to be the same person again because he's going to be concussed the concrete's going to mess with him and i'll probably kick his teeth in too while i'm at it just because he's a piece of shit i mean i mean the guy's claiming i mean he's the sucker punch king you know he's claiming for being out at denny's and being Dining and Dash King. Dude, you're a piece of shit, man.

You're dining and dashing on single mothers that are working at Denny's because, you know, they're trying to put food on the table for their child. And you're bragging about being proud of dining and dashing on them. Dude, the guy's the lowest scum denominator of Earth. And he's the fakesest piece of shit. He turned his back on me for money and his management team. And people are going to find out the real truth about him. I mean, he's going to get exposed soon.

I know so much about him. And it doesn't make sense. come out yet. When we fight, it'll all be built up in the fight. But until then, dude, he's just going to keep being out of fake piece of shit. And he's going to keep fucking disobeying commands from, you know, ATT chief, Dan Lambert and freaking, you know, trying to go above his word like he's better than Dan Lambert's word. Very interesting because, you know, let's put it this way. Rematch with Usman, title fight, clearly very lucrative. It's a fight you want. You want to get that one back. But

Mazadol has become a big star over the last year, whether you know, no matter how you look at it, he has become a very big name in the sport. And that can be very lucrative as well. So let's just say all things are even here, money, all of that. If the UFC called you right now and said, Colby, money's the same. What comes next will be the same in terms of your financial future. What have you? You know, from just like a fight component standing by itself, what do you want more? Usman or Mazadol? I want them both in the same night, Mike. That's how pissed off. You know, I have such a bad, salty taste in my mouth from my last fight with Marty

Fake Newsman, just getting cheated by Mark Not So Godder, just all the fake fouls and the fouls that did happen, he doesn't call on the bullshit early stoppage when I was clearly still in the fight and intelligently defending myself. So, you know, we're going to run that back. There's going to be a sequel in trilogy with Marty Fake Newsman. But my ex-best friend, Street Judas Mousfodil,

he has a special ass whoop and waiting for him. He's for sure going to get, he's talking about me getting my jaw-wired shut. Bitch, I never got one thing fucking jar-wired shut on my fucking mouth. Never got shit. But when we fight, I promise you, Street, Judas, your teeth will be wired shut. I'm going to fucking

take you down. I'm going to fucking slice you up with my elbows, and I'm going to break your fucking face with these fucking knuckles. Mark my words, Mike. So if the UFC offers you either of those fights, you're jumping on it. Jumping on it, my agency, Lloyd Pearson, is signing the paper before the

ink can dry. Those are the only fights I want the biggest fights possible and the people are going to be fucking super satisfied when they see Kobe Chaos Coventon version 2.0. I was playing before, Mike. Now I'm fucking serious. I'm not fucking playing around anymore. You get so many options right now.

That's what happens. Usman, Mazadol, and you mentioned Drew McIntyre. This thing just took off like a rocket ship. You said, you know, and it started with you just saying that I want to, you know, I think I'm going to be in the WWE the summer of 2021. and then it's become this whole thing where Drew talks to ESPN and says that he's going to smash your head in, he's going to shut you up and he's going to break your jaw like Usman did. He said he'd fight you anywhere in a bar or whatever. But this took off so quickly. Can you believe, are you surprised that Drew reacted to this the way that he did?

I'm not surprised, you know. He sees the way I draw. You know, I'm the king of the UFC right now. You know, I'm the most controversial and talked about fighter. Everybody, everybody can't keep my name out of their mouth. living rent-free in every fighter's head. Everybody talks about me and everybody wants to be me. So, you know, the thing with the WWE is everybody thinks that I'm just going to leave the UFC and go over the WWE. No, I can do both at the same time. I'm still young. I'm 32 years young. I'm not even in my prime yet. I'm still getting better every single day, stronger every day, better cardio and everybody knows how good my cardio is. They call me the cardio king for a reason. So I want to do both at the same time. I want to go whoop Drew McIntyre's ass in an unsanctioned fight.

maybe over in Saudi Arabia, maybe in this home country of Scotland. And I want to go with what Marty Fake Newsman's asked and Street Judas Mosfidol's ask. And nothing's changing. It's going to happen. Everybody knows I'm a man of my word. Promises made, promises kept, just like Mr. President says. Have you been approached by WWE at all with all this going on? You know, I haven't been approached like directly by them. But, you know, I know they know who I am. And I know that there's some rumblins and some talkings behind scenes. So I'll leave that up to my management group, you know.

I'm just worried about getting better every day, training hard, you know, working on my wrestling moves, working on my fighting moves, just evolving. You know, I love the process. Everybody knows that I trust the process. I've always loved the process. I'm not afraid of hard work. You know, I'm a blue-collared American that, you know, is living the American dream. And I had nothing given to me. I had to earn it the hard way, you know, just like the troops are doing it, you know, they're earning it to hard way every day.

And they're putting their sacrifice in their lives for our freedoms, you know. Those guys inspire me. That's who I fight for, the troops and the Trumps. You have to think that all this would Drew put you on their radar a little bit more, I would say. But I'd be remiss if I didn't get your take on something because you are tied to both of these individuals. Have you seen this back and forth on social media between your fellow Oregonian Chal Sunnan and your old buddy, John Jones? Have you seen that? And if so, what have you made of this whole thing?

No, I haven't really paid attention to that, man. I've been, I mean, as you can see on Twitter, you know, I'm not, I'm not on Twitter a lot. You know, I go on there occasionally when I want to set up business and, and I want people to talk about that business. But other than that, you know, I don't got time to be on social media, you know, I'm not like these fighters. Most of these fighters are looking at every down, every comment. Oh, what does this person say?

They're looking up in their feelings. You know, that's why they're the ultimate feelings champions, looking down every comment, every engagement, this and that, I'm out getting better. I'm out working hard. I'm out trying to make my fans happy, trying to make my fans happy, trying to make. make my family happy, trying to work hard for my legacy, for my future. You know, so I have a lot of unfinished business, you know, Marty Fake Newsman with Street, Jewish Mousadol.

So until I take care of that unfinished business, I'm not going to be satisfied, Mike. So I need to stay on the ground, keep working hard every single day and earn it every single day, just like the American, you know, just like every other American. Last thing for me, Colby, and I appreciate the time. Perfect world. And we know how much tougher that scenario is these days. when do we see you back? When will we hear the Kurt Angle theme song once again

as you walk down the aisle into that octagon to compete again? Yeah, you know, I've been ready since December, so I would love to come back soon. You know, that ball is in UFC's court. You know, that's what they need to get the negotiations, right? And we need to get a deal done. We're very close, and, you know, we need to get this done. We need to get back into business, and let me do my thing,

man, give me the football. If you give me the ball, I'm running to touch. touchdown UFC. I guarantee that. I'm the best I've ever been and I'm getting better every single day. So anybody that doubts me will be proven wrong very soon. But in a perfect world, you know, by June or July, I'll be back in the Octagon on Fight Island or or coaching Tough or in Vegas at the apex. It doesn't matter. I just want to put on a show for the people and save the sports world because all these other guys are just boring, man, and nobody cares about them. Coaching Tough, has that been brought up at all? Because I know Dana said he's

going to bring it back. People thought it was dead. Is that a possibility here? I think anything's a possibility. You know, I think to shoot for the stars always, you know, and it's better than shooting for, you know, the sun, then you land in a pile of shit. What a, I was going to say, what a professional answer, but then you turned it on me.

So nicely done, Colby. We made history here. First fighter guest to appear on the show multiple times, and it was great catching up with you, as always, Colby. You and I have been chatting and doing this thing for years now, And, you know, it's, it's, I got to say, honestly, people can look at you however you want, but however they want and whatever lens they want to. But for me, as somebody who's been covering this sport, you're one of the few guys who early on

gave me the chance. And I think, so to see you kind of get up there and headline cards and fight for titles and being an interim champion and all this stuff, it's, it's pretty surreal. I got to be honest with you seeing that. It's kind of one of those things you appreciate as a journalist. And we have to be biased and all that stuff. But still, like you got to be. a human being too and just be like, wow, that's, that's pretty cool.

Absolutely, man. It's crazy journey we've been on, you know, we've been at a while. We never gave up, you know, a lot of people give up before they could get to that good opportunity and they throw in the towel. But, you know, we both kept working hard and now we get to do what we love. And we're just getting started, man. The best is yet to come. There you go, Colby.

I appreciate the time very much. Hopefully we get to see you back in June or July and all the best to you during these crazy times and we'll talk soon. Talk soon, Mike. care, brother. Stay safe. How about that? The former UFC interim welterweight champion, and he certainly was not messing around this week, Colby Covington. I mean, just think about that conversation.

Woodley, Usman, Mazadol, Drew Freaking McIntyre, the WWE champion, the UFC themselves, he took a shot at everybody there, and it's really interesting, it will be really interesting, mind you, to see what happens next for Colby Covington because there's some potential options for him. And I'm just going to throw this out of it. If Tyron Woodley beats Gilbert Burns next weekend, and that's a big if because Gilbert has been on a roll,

you have to make that fight between Woodley and Covington. Like enough is enough. Whatever it takes, get it done. There is still life there. And that is kind of rare in this book. Because a lot of times where, you know, direction-wise, two paths are about to lead into a collision with each other. And for some reason, the fight doesn't get done.

something happens when things get mixed around and changed around, and then we never get to see it. But there is still life here, even after Colby Covington lost, even after Tyron Woodley lost, and they both lost Kamara Usman. But you need to capitalize on it, and you need to do it soon. But of course, Gilbert Burns is going to have something to say about that in a very interesting main event next Saturday in, I believe, Las Vegas. Not 100% on that, but that's what Dana White said. As we move ahead to our final guest of the program, he returned to the UFC last Wednesday. night on super short notice to take on UFC debutante, Ikeville and Oweva, and we saw a much different fighter than we saw in his first stint with the promotion. No doubt about that. Let us check

in with the Giff King himself, the Vanilla Gorilla. Here he is, Chase Sherman. All right, we move ahead to another one of the big winners during the Jacksonville trifecta for the UFC. Chase Sherman kicked off the card last Wednesday night, picked up a second round TKO win over Ikeville and Oweva to kick off that card, a triumphant return for the vanilla gorilla. And he joins us right now. Chase, how are you, man? I'm good, man. How are you doing? I'm doing great. Congratulations on the win. You're back in the UFC. You go in there and get a finish. Now that you've had some time to sort of let it all sink in, how does it all feel? It feels good. You know, I rode that high for about two or three days and now I'm back to normal life. You know, Wednesday night, I was putting out

people's lights and then Sunday morning I was putting out people's fire. So we're back to normal life, back to work and, you know, trying to get back in the gym and, you know, get a normal routine going. One of the misconceptions that I saw in social media heading into the fight is that when you were released from the UFC, people thought you just sort of vanished off the face of the earth, but you were extremely active, not just on the bare knuckle scene, which people saw, but you were active at MMA as well. You had three first round finishes for island fights to set you up for this call. So to sort of go back in the book a little ways, when you lost that fight to Augusto Sakai in September of 2018 and you were subsequently released, how did you react to all that?

Because it certainly seemed to flip a switch in you. Well, at first, you know, I was kind of embarrassed. I kind of wanted to wash my hands with it. I always told myself, you know, if I didn't, if I didn't make a good go of it, the first go round in the UFC, and I got cut, like, I was done. I wasn't going to go back to the regional scene and try to fight to get back on. And I was going to try to figure something else out to do. And so it happened, and I was just like, you know, it was time to figure something else, get a new niche, find something else I enjoy, find a new way to make money.

And a month or two started passing by and I was just like, I can't, I can't just, I can't leave a stone unturned, you know what I mean? I have unfinished business. And I still had that competitive driving me. And I knew that there was, there was something left on the table. And I just called and called a men's like, I couldn't, you know, call it in like that. So, you know, Dean had already messaged me. Sorry, Dean had already messaged me about a fire. that September or that December I got released in September and I was like yeah Dean I really I really

ain't feeling it you know what I mean I know nobody knows I've been released from the UFC just yet and I just told people with my business and and you know I live in a small town everybody knows everybody so it's kind of embarrassing to me you know knowing that I lost my job and but after a while I was just like you know I got to do something I can't just I just just can't go by all this. We went on and we rounded off three wins and then the bare knuckles started. Do you remember the moment where you were just like, you know what, I'm going to do this? Like you talked about the road, you got that competitive drive, but do you remember the moment where you're like, okay, I'm back?

Like that switch flipped for you to get back in the gym and start preparing for another fight? Yeah, I mean, it just really kind of happened. it really happened after the win. You know, I just need to get that wind back under me and get that feeling, you know. And I just had to get better, man. You know, I had to get better and I had to get back to enjoying the process. You know, if all you enjoy, if the only thing you're chasing is wins and that's the only thing you enjoy about it, you're not going to really have a great career

because, you know, there's not everybody's going to win every fight, you know what I mean? enjoy the process, the ground just as much as anything. And how to get back to doing that and enjoy actually training and things of that nature. Did you feel like towards the latter part of your first UFC run that you were starting to, I guess, fall out of love with the sport? You know, obviously getting in the cage and fighting is there's a different feeling that goes through you. But, you know, the preparation and stuff like you talked about, did you feel like you had fallen out of love with it a little bit? Well, I just got to the point to where it was, repetitive a little bit, you know, and, and really what it was, man, it was, it was a lot of it

was nerves. The first go around, I kind of told myself, you know, this was my career and, and I have to win, I can't lose, or, you know, if I get cut, like, what am I going to do? And, and I would go into Fight Week, and I would just be so ate up with, you know, nerves and emotion that I just I didn't even enjoy it. I wasn't having fun. It was miserable. I was going to all these beautiful cities and in different countries that I've never been

and never get to go to again probably. And I wasn't even getting to draw in the whole experience. And really taking the fact that I'm doing something that most people aren't going to ever be able to do. And I get the pain to do it. And so like I just didn't enjoy the process. man, I'd stay in my room and I wouldn't eat all week. Like I said, I was just so scared of losing that, you know, I forgot what was important was just having fun.

So I kind of flipped the switch on that going into this time because I just got the call out of nowhere. I wasn't expecting it. And I was like, wow, man, I'm absolutely blessed. Like, I'm going to soak this up because I don't know if I'll get another opportunity. And that's what it is. It's not a career. It's an opportunity. Every chance is an opportunity.

You don't know when you're going to be good. cut. You don't know when you're going to be released. You don't know when you're going to get injured. So this isn't a career. It's just an opportunity. You win, you get another opportunity. And so that's how I kind of approached the situation. And I went out there and I just was like, I'm going to have fun. I'm going to let loose and let my hands go. And I'm going to do what I know I'm going to do what I know I'm capable of doing. And I think you saw a little bit of what I'm capable of doing on a fucking six days notice. So I, you know, I think a lot of things we do, man, it's all here, it's mental, you know, we let our own subs get in the way.

With that, you made a lot of different changes because I saw, I believe you're a certified exercise physiologist now. Like you said, you're a firefighter in Gulf War, Mississippi as of last summer. So you've been extremely busy outside of the fight game as well. And I know that with me, I love being busy and diving into different things because it keeps me sharp and, you know, helps me focus on individual tasks by diving into others, if that makes any sense. But how much as diving into all these different things and taking these new avenues helped you grow as a person along with being the fighter yeah i always try to have my hands in different parts i've always kind of been like that and you know i'll pick up new little things uh little hobbies every now and then

and i get super obsessed with something um and then a couple months later i'll find something else and i get super obsessed with it and um you know like when hunting season rolling around i just got super obsessed with hunt. Like, that's all I was doing every day on the side was just worrying about going deer hunting and watching videos and bond guns and, you know, all kinds of stuff in gear. And then when fishing season rolled around, that's all I cared about. I was going to catch, go wayfishing. Every morning, I'd wake up and check the tides and I'd go down to the beach and go wayfish out there right before I'd go into work. And then I'd get off from the station and go fish again. And then it was, you know, working on my Harley. I was just getting so obsessed.

with like fixing it up and doing all that. And then now I've kind of dabbled into, you know, into firearms. So, yeah, I just kind of like that. I get obsessed over things. And then also, like, I try to do different avenues that might generate some sort of revenue. And I know, like, you know,

I work at the fire station. I'm a strength and conditioning coach. I, you know, I'm licensed to sell. life insurance. I'm a professional fighter. So I'm trying to do all kinds of different things, you know, but it keeps my mom busy. I always say idle hands are the devil's playground.

So if you're sitting around a lot, it's not typically good for the mental. I would agree with that. How did you enjoy the bare-knuckle experience? There's certainly a lot of people out there who feel like bare-knuckle is the next big thing in combat sports and others see it differently. But again, this world can be full of misconceptions.

What did you take away from that experience and how much of a future does Baruncle have in terms of growth and popularity, in your opinion? You know, I don't know, man. I'm kind of mixed emotions about a lot of things that want to want to have been a bare knuckle. Some things that were in a sense that if you're going to be a, you know, call yourself a top organization and you're going to be the next big thing in the world and this and that, there was a lack of professionalism in a lot of different avenues and a lot of things that were handled I didn't quite agree with and most people wouldn't agree with and I'm kind of kind of

leave it at that I will say this the reason I got into bare-knuckle was because A was in the local scene and two I mean B I said A and two and B because I they were paying more money than any other kind of regional MMA show around here. So I was doing the MMA to get back into the UFC. It was never about the money, you know. You know, it never is on the regional scene. You just need to get the wins. So I was doing that to get the wins to get back in the UFC.

And then I was obviously doing the bare knuckle. I was doing the bare knuckle for financial reasons. But I did. There was something about it that was really cool. I really enjoy boxing, man. I love the history of boxing and I love the craft. And I really, I truly believe that just working, doing the bare knuckle changed a lot in my game.

You know, I grew as a fighter as a whole. So, yeah, you know, if I'm glad I did it. I'll just leave it at that. You know, I'm glad I did it. You mentioned that this fight came together very quickly. How did you get the news that you'd be back in the UFC? What was that conversation like? Have you ever met Dean Tool?

Have you ever talked to Dean Tool? I talked to him just to set up this interview. It was the first time I've ever spoken with him. Was he professional with you? Very. Oh, okay. He's not like that with me. So, anyways, dude, I love that guy.

He's hilarious. He's taking care of me. me in so many ways. I mean, that guy, I could just go on about it. But anyways, so I was just ready to go train my young athletes. And he called me and he phacetime me. Thanks to the phone, he was like,

what's up? I was like, what's up, man? And he always does this. So I didn't think it was nothing special, you know what I mean? He's like, what's up? I was like, what's up? he goes, what you're doing? I said, I'm about to go train my athletes.

And he goes, do you know what today is? I said, it's May 1st. He goes, exactly. I said, okay, what's your point? He said, what are you going to be doing the next 12 days? And I said, I don't know, probably fucking working. I'm broke like the rest of America. You know, I'm trying to figure out how I'm going to pay, you know,

my bills from last month in the month coming up. you know and um he goes okay he said well what about he said what about your fight i said i said you're not going to be training i said what fight are you talking about i said you did you you know did you uh you got a card lined up or something for island fights that's what i thought it was he goes no i said what the fuck you're talking about i was like i got to go train these kids like i ain't sitting on my couch talking luscious what you got he goes you got you got a fight uh may thirteenth in jacksville florida i said okay with who he goes ufcc I was like, don't fuck with me, man.

I'm not in the mood. Like, don't be fucking with me. Like, it's not, this ain't the time, you know what I mean? And he's like, I'm dead serious. I said, seriously, he goes four-fight deal with your son with the UFC. He said you're fighting in Jacksonville, Florida, May 13th. I was like, are you serious? He goes, swear to God.

He starts laughing. I was like, motherfucker. Because, I mean, I haven't, I didn't have an MMA fight all of, all of, this year I haven't had one and I don't think I don't think I had one last year either I didn't have one last year that was the beginning of last year but that was it and I started

the bare knuckle you know and so I was like I had to get another more at least a one more regional scene win before maybe I'd get some leeway in there I mean they did call for the contender series but I was in the middle of fire academy so I kind of turn that down but you know I had had an

MMA fight and so in a minute And PFL at the time had told us in February I told my managers that they were going to they wanted to bring me in for the new season this summer. I was like, all right, cool, that's cool. That's money in the back.

They pay their fighters pretty good, you know? I said, well, I still like the ultimate goals to get to the UFC, you know what I mean? Like, that's where I want to be. And I said, let's do this. I said, let me go fight on the regional scene in March. We get another win. go talk to Mick Manor.

And then we'll say, Mick, you know, he's been offered by PFL, but he wants to sign with you. We've got four and O since being released. You have anything. And he said, hey, they don't want me, then I'll go and sign with PFL. Well, my opponent in March backed out three days before the fight. So we're like, fuck, all right. We called PFL update. He said, we're going a different route.

What are you going to want Sherman anymore? Okay, shit. We called Mick up. Mick was like, all right, well, I don't know. like, you know, like, we'll see. He hasn't fallen in a while and, you know, basically just kind of be nice for saying kind of like, you're wasting my time. You know what I mean?

You need some more wins. So I was like, all right. So I set up another fight for Kenny Garner here in Biloxi for a title fight on a regional show. And Kenny is former M1 Global Heavyweight champ from several years ago. And that was going to be April 11th. Well, this shit happened. And that fight got canceled. So, you know, that's a good chunk of change for me going down the drain in the last two months.

So I'm just basically working as a firefighter. The gyms are closed. I'm not able to train any of my clients. I'm just struggling, man, struggling for money. And I finally was like, you know, I'm not a very God-fearing, man, you know, but I'm probably a pretty spiritual person, but I'm not super religious, you know. And I was just like, first time I prayed in a while, and I was like, I need some, I need some fucking help, you know. I mean, I need some help, something, give me a sign or something.

And it was about a day or so later that I was just working out in my little homemade gym I have in my garage. And me and my buddies were, and someone was filming me in a couple of lifts on Facebook or something. And my lieutenant at the fire station was like, hey, were you trained my little boys? Are you work them out? You know, they haven't been able to do not in schools closed. They played baseball, football. And I was like, yeah, come on bring them by. So I put him through a little workout, and he was taking some, he was filming a little bit, and his wife posted it on Facebook.

And literally, after she posted it, like 10 moms, like, take my kid, like, go do something with him, get him out the damn house, you know, here's my money, just work them out, you know? I was like, all right, cool. I was like, sure. So I was like, thank you, Lord, thank you, Jesus. I thought that was what my prayers were answered, you know what I mean? I'm like making a couple extra $100 a week or whatever. I'm like, thank you. and sure enough the very next day

that's when I get the call from Dean I'm about to go train my kids what you want he's like you're going to the UFC holy fucking shit so and then it's just it's been balls to the wall from there you know six days

six days man I had before I flew out and I ain't done any training in over a month you know what I mean no training in over a month um except for weight lifting you know That was it. And six days to get ready.

Still training my kids. It's all left. You know what I mean? You hear me? Yeah, there you go. Yeah, there we go. I didn't want to interrupt you, but. Okay.

Okay, can you hear me, though? Yeah, you're perfect. All right. So, you know, I'm doing all the USADA stuff again. And I miss all that. I'm trying to find some time to get in to my coaches who also have live. and things going on. I'm like calling them up and they're like, hey, look, dude, I got six days. Like, come help me or something, you know. And so it was, dude, it's been boss to the wall.

I haven't stopped. And then we, you know, we drove down there and the rest is history. With it coming together so quickly, like you said, you were you were boss at the wall, just getting to Jacksonville, getting to the fight. Did you even, did you know anything about Eightville in a way of it? Like, obviously, you know, he's a, he's a 30. six-year-old guy, he finally got his opportunity. This is a huge moment for him. But did you have any time to even look at any footage or learn much about him heading into it? I watched, like, film once. My coach watched, my striking coach watched once. And that was about it. And then he was like, this is what we see. And that's what we're going to work on,

because we don't have a lot of time to really devise an intricate game plan. You know what I mean? We have we have to go with, you know what I mean? We don't have a bunch of time to, all right, we're going to do this. We're going to do this. We're going to do this. If that don't work, we'll do this, this, this and that don't work. We'll do this, this is like, okay, let's keep it simple and just do repetition, repetition, repetition after that. So that was it. That was it. Watched film, film once. It said, this should be able to, should be able to work. And we'll go with it from there, you know. And it did, you know. And just muscle memory kind of took over. And like I said, the. The bare-knuckle boxing really helped with my hands and my timing and my technique a little bit better as far as they turning it over my punches and being more precise. Just being a lot smoother instead of just trying to be so fast, you know, and on-punching everything. So it felt a lot different, man. Like I went and I went into that. I was like, damn, I was like, I feel like I wouldn't, you know, I was like I feel like it wasn't wasting a whole lot of energy or, you know, I was, I felt calm. I felt calm and I felt like I wasn't, you know, landing big shots.

And then I went back and watched film and I was like, holy fuck. Like, I was, like, there was some heat being thrown and I was trying to take that guy's head off, you know. That last elbow, if it would have landed, like, probably he might still be in the hospital. I don't know if you've seen that or not. Oh, yeah. The Lord blessed him right there. What did you make of the very unique fight week experience during such a crazy time in the world? Like one thing that you said in this conversation that stuck out to me was you wanted to enjoy the process more and enjoy going to the cities.

And there was some social media footage of you out training on the beach and stuff. So you got to at least get out and do something outside of the hotel. But, you know, with the testing and everything, what did you make of the fight week experience? Really the only, really only the first day was kind of a cluster for me. And it wasn't nothing that UFC did. They had it all rolling pretty smoothly. but just for me like we drove there so we were driving all day and then and then we got there and um you know unpacking all your shit and then so but before you could go up to the room and

relax you and before you could check in you had to get tested and it was a pretty smooth process just going in and sign on all the paperwork that that we normally do on fight week and then kind of wait your turn to get tested um process took maybe 15 minutes with everybody, you know, moving in front of you and stuff. And it got the results. And then it was pretty much normal for there. We came downstairs to anywhere, like to go downstairs. We just have to get our temperature taken.

And they'd give us a wristband after our temp was taken and we'd be good to go for the rest of the day. So it was pretty simple. You know, it wasn't too big of a deal. You know. Yeah. So it was weird, but. I mean, we're in strange times right now, man.

So I'm not going to complain about anything. I think they did a really good job. The leg kicks were scoring big time in the first round, and you admitted yourself after the fight that you veered away from the game plan a little bit late in that round. Ike was starting to land a little bit. It was starting to turn into a dog fight a little bit. But second round, you came out and you slowed things down a little bit

and got the finish early on. What was the conversation like between rounds with your coaches to help sort of snap you back into that more methodical approach? Well, man, I just have, you said later in the rounds, I kind of have a tendency of when I'm getting like kind of bum rushed or whatever that I'll just, you know, lean back and I get caught and then I'll, you know, return two or three. But I don't know, I just get kind of excited, you know, towards like, I guess towards the end of round. That's how I'll spar too, you know. Like I'll be more methodical in the beginning and then towards the end of the round, the last minute. half, two minutes.

I'm typically trying to pick up the pace and really put it on them. I was trying to put the pressure on them. Obviously going into the second round, like wearing them down, break them down a little bit mentally, you know what I mean, and physically as well. So I'll pick up the pace at the end of the first round, and then hopefully by, you know, when he's going to just stories like, fuck, you know, I kind of had to defend a bombardment right there,

you know, exhaust him out a little bit towards the end of the first. But yeah, I do get caught in those. exchanges more than I'd like to. But I went to the second knowing that I needed just kind of stay in the pocket a little bit more and kind of use my guard, you know, shell up a little bit more and then return the combos versus fading back because he was coming in hard. So I knew if I stood my ground and showed up, he was going to be right in the clinch range and then the elbow range because he just coming on a linear path.

He's not, he wasn't cutting his angles or anything off of his combos. He was coming straight in. and then he wasn't even moving back out. You know what I mean? So he was coming straight in. So I was like, okay, show up, put him in the clinch. Boom, I landed the big knee. He came back in again.

I faded him. Faked him out with the knee. I was going to hit him with a knee. Let his head slide up. Boom. Hit him with the elbow. And then the one, two, put him against the fence, and then just try to finish him from there.

But he was a tough guy, you know. So I asked my, asked my coaches in between rounds if the leg kicks were working because you never you know you don't know really what's going on you're such a weird kind of state of mind when you're fighting you don't know if stuff's landing hard or not and they were like do not stop fucking leg kicking him do not stop i was like okay and sure enough like i got off the stool and i looked over there across the ring and his leg and it already had a huge hematobo on him on his on his calf and i was like it was bruising i was like yeah you're about to get kicked some more buddy

So that was pretty much the game plan. As if the win wasn't enough for you, I'm sure that was just an amazing moment to get back in there and get the win. I think fans were very excited when they were graced with your return to Twitter after the fight. You referenced your promo afterwards with Daniel Cormier, they're ordering 10 chicken wings and getting 11 feeling, which was amazing. Fans are pumped to see the gift king back on Twitter. What was the reason for the layoff? I think it was almost a year since you were off. Twitter.

Yeah, well, man, because people are fucking ruthless online. You know what I mean? It's ruthless. And it's real, I mean, I just didn't want that kind of negativity in my life anymore when I already had enough negativity going on. Like I'm getting cut from the UFC. And, and I mean, my whole life's changing. And I don't want to have to log on Twitter and see fucking 20,000 people tell me

how bad I fucking suck. You know what I mean? At life, when they're sitting home on their couch with their thumb up their ass, you know what I mean? You can't really do nothing about it, you know? So I just didn't want to, I don't have to deal with that anymore. And so I logged off for a while. And that was it. I mean, I just was dumb with it. You know what I mean? You posted that, you posted a video of your son watching your fight and cheering you on. And as a dad, myself, just an amazing thing to see. How did you react to seeing that video

after you got that win? Oh, man, I teared up, man. I was, I've watched a million. times you know they played uh right before i walked out they were showing clips from previous fights on one where i uh i uh i uh brought them into the ring and stuff and and um and i was like damn man like right before i walked out i was like already tearing up you know what i see me and i was like shit get emotional but um it was cool it was cool uh last thing for the guy i appreciate you giving me so much time, but it didn't take long for the first post-UFC return victory callout to take place against you on Saturday. Rodrigo Nassimento picked up a second round submission, went over Dantel Mays, and called to fight you upon his return to the Octagon. Did you hear

about that callout? And if so, how did you react to it? Um, uh, yeah, I did. I was, I was, uh, I'm a buddy's house. And, um, we was, you know, going to watch the fights the main card at least that in a Saturday and um we celebrated and I just got back in town from Jacksonville and um I rode my um my me and my old lady stayed in uh orange beach Alabama and I brought my Harley out there and we rode around and hung out to beach in the condo and stuff so I drove back home and we started to have some beers and stuff like that and my cousin was grilling out and it's having a good time and then you know I got the cup of a logged on

on Facebook and I see like being tagged and all this stuff about being called out and I started getting text messages and I was just like

okay whatever it is you know whatever and and beforehand you know back when I was in the UFC

before I'd have been like you know like what the fuck you know like before I even realized who it was or what was said I'm already on Twitter like you know

I'll fight you or whatever like signing up but man we're taking a different approach to things this go around. And I'm not going to let my pride get in the way of my legacy. So with that being said, we were studying film and trying to do the things that, you know, we need to do.

And I told making those guys, like, when we go into this, I'm going to make sure I'm ready. You know what I mean? I haven't done anything in two months. And they wanted me to fight in July. and I'm like, you know, I'm not fighting this guy in July. Because where's the benefit there? He's a very, he's a very skilled fighter. There's no, there's no market for it.

You know what I mean? He doesn't have much of a name. And it's like, what's the, where does that benefit me? Where does that benefit my career? You know what I mean? You want me to go fight him later in the year? Fine, let's do it. You know what I mean?

Let's go. But I want, I'm in July? So what? I have June, basically June to get ready. you know what I mean? And so it's like, no, I'm not, you know, that's, my coach would like, that's not a smart fight. And you're like, it's not a smart fight.

So I'm going to listen to them. You know what I mean? I'm not going to let my pride get in the way and go into a knock down, drag out fight, and then, what? And then potentially be one and one. You know what I mean? Then what? And everybody, as soon as I lose a fight, they're like, oh, yeah, we knew it.

We knew it. You know, he's just a bum, you know, so we're going to do things smart. The whole fucking first part of my career, I try to be a company man and take all these fights that I knew I shouldn't have took. on short notice. I had seven fights in the UFC. My first got around, six of them were on short notice.

I think everybody I lost to is in the top 15, top 10, you know what I mean? So it's like, shit, that don't, nobody cares about who you fought or who you lost to or if you took it on short notice

or if you were trying to please the matchmakers or Dana White. Nobody cares about that. You know what they care about is wins and losses. That's it. So I learned that to hard way. So not going out chasing the money, not going out chasing the,

big paychecks and taking stupid fights, you know. I'm going to fight when I'm ready and I'm going to fight, you know, who I want to fight, you know. And then when the time comes, we'll make the big matchups happen. You know what I mean? There's already a few fish I want to fry out there, you know what I mean? But right now we're going to slow play it, build the career up, get a couple new contracts, and then we'll start looking at some bigger fights,

that's where I wasn't in that you know what I mean jace congratulations man amazing performance good to see you back in the UFC good to see you back on Twitter enjoy it smell the roses for a bit look forward to seeing what is next for you down the line and hopefully the fellow firefighters on grilling you too bad and making you clean

toilets or anything after getting a win i know how that works my father was a firefighter yeah yesterday was uh last year shift was my last day as a recruit man so i put my year in did the cat I put my urine on rotations. And so I'm going from a, from a, graduating from a maggot to a fly. So you know what I got.

I'm going to be a one, officially a firefighter one. And we're going to go from now. Finally to be able to sit in the recliners instead of after to watch TV at the dinner table. So it'll be really nice. It's going to be real nice. There's a lot to be congratulated for. That's another thing. Thank you for the time, man.

This is amazing, man. congratulations. It's good to see you back. All right. Chase Sherman. Wrapping up another edition of What the Heck on MMAfighting.com. This was a fun one to say the least, and I cannot believe we have done eight of these things already. I really can't, and I appreciate all of you checking out the show each and every week. The feedback has been really good, and that means a lot to me. And I know I have said this before, and I promise you that this is happening,

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