Modern Wisdom - #022 - BT Urruela - Overcoming War, Elective Amputation and PTSD

Episode Date: July 23, 2018

BT Urruela is a US Army Combat Wounded Veteran, Elective Amputee, Author, Cover Model and Co-Founder of VETSports. BT's life sounds like a movie script. I met him 2 years ago at an author's event and always knew that if I had a broadcasting platform I had to sit down with him to let him tell his story. Enjoy the most powerful episode so far. Follow BT Online: http://www.bturruela.com/ https://twitter.com/BTUArmy http://instagram.com/bturruela http://www.vetsports.org/ Check out everything I recommend from books to products and help support the podcast at no extra cost to you by shopping through this link - https://www.amazon.co.uk/shop/modernwisdom - Get in touch. Join the discussion with me and other like minded listeners in the episode comments on the MW YouTube Channel or message me... Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chriswillx Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/chriswillx YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/ModernWisdomPodcast Email: https://www.chriswillx.com/contact Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hi friends, I'm currently in Virginia, Norfolk, the northeast of the United States, and I'm at an author's event. Two years ago, I came to the same event here, and I got to hear a speech from a guy called BT Urella. Now BT is a wounded army vet. is an author, and he's the founder of VET Sports, which is an organization for wounded veterans to play a variety of different sports and also a community and support for them. And I got to hear this speech that he gave about his life when I was completely unprepared. I didn't know who he was, And I was blown away. That I still to this day, it moves me to think about what he said on that evening.

And he only got 15 minutes of time at the beginning of this dinner. And anyway, I kept in touch with him over the next year and then we got to see each other at an event the year after. And now two years, hence we are here again, back in Virginia at the same hotel where we first met actually. And I knew two years ago,

I thought if I ever have the opportunity to broadcast something, I want to get this story out there. And lo and behold, two years later, I've got a podcast and I know I have the opportunity to have one of my best mates in the US with this insane compelling story. Come on and talk.

So today here we are. It's absolutely insane. Beaty's life from a messed up childhood to being hit with five IEDs in the space of a year while he was on tour in Iraq to coming back to the US, losing a limb, starting a sports league, dealing with PTSD, and now becoming an author and cover model that's very, very well regarded in the USA. This story sounds like something that he's written in one of his books, but it's not his actual life. So sit back and enjoy. B.T. your other. B.T. man. Yes. Thank you very much for coming on. I really appreciate it. Mark Lagerkiss. Absolutely. It's probably been two years since I've wanted to get you to sit down and have a

discussion. So, and here we are. Here we are in the same hotel. I'm the same way. I know, right. Bit of poetic justice there is. So yeah, I got to hear you, um, I turned up late, my luggage arrived at the day late, I had to run upstairs and come downstairs to this black-tie ball thing that we had two years ago here. And then kind of burst into the room and sat down as this guy got up and stood up and it was you and you were about to give this big speech and I was like totally unprepared, like wholly unprepared and I guess like because that was just after you'd done your TV thing as well right and so your notoriety was probably riding moderately high and then being in this community of authors everyone would have had an idea of what was going to be said and then you just unloaded this story and I was like totally

You know like you someone racks a bar with weights that you don't know what it is you step underneath it and you're like oh my god This is really so heavy. Yeah, no, no too much too much and Yeah, man. I got I got blown away by that well in the weird part was that at that part two years ago You know I had told my story with Vetsports, I co-founded in 2012, so telling my story had become a thing over the years, but at that point within the community, it hadn't been a thing yet. You know, people knew the basis of my story, they knew I was a combat wound of veteran, stuff like that, but they never knew the eccentricities of my entire life, and so that's what I wanted

to do with that speech was just kind of lay it all out there. And then kind of just given the whole narrative. How different does it feel giving the speech to the industry that you're in now, which is authors versus the industry that you were in or that you're associated with, which is veterans? Well, so that's actually different than what I usually do. I don't talk to a lot of veterans on the board. I talk to veterans, but it's more conversational. It's not giving them a speech or whatever. So the differences where I'm at is that speech

was for my peers in the romance community, right? And usually my other speeches are for businesses or clubs or groups or whatever. So for me, it meant a lot more because obviously being a creative type, you are, you're used to and you're, you make emotions, you're business. Yes. Emotions are your business.

You understand that, you understand pain and love and all these beautiful things. And so they, for me, being able to share my story in that room, the response I got back was so much better and greater than what I ever had before. You think people have got that depth of understanding. They have that perfect word for a depth, that compassion, there's different people.

We're wired differently as authors, as creative types. I agree. I agree. I mean, it sounds like hearing your story sounds like a work of fiction. Yeah. For one of it feels like it, bro. It feels like it. You've lived it.

Serious. So, you know, can you take us from where do we start with your story? Where do we begin? I honestly don't even know. That's a weird part because I touched on everything with that speech. I had a real fucked up childhood, real bad childhood, and a lot of abuse of every variety. And so when I hit about 15, it was that point where I was like, I need to do something, I need to get the fuck out of here. I have to get out of here. Well, it was growing up, but I just ain't loathsome, it was very, so I was born and raised.

Okay. And so I had a lot of members of my family and the military. And I also attributed to this as well, saving private Ryan. When I watched that movie at 14, and I saw what those men did on a D-Day, I was so profoundly moved by their strength. That was that point where I was like,

I need to do that. I felt I owed it to them. So at 18, I ended up joining the Army. Army infantry shipped off to Fort Benning, Georgia, went through basic training, graduated, went to Germany, trained up for a year, and then ended up in Iraq. What is this? What we're talking about.

So 2004 was basic training. 2005 was Germany training up for Iraq, and then 2006 was Iraq. So you're right in the middle of it? Yeah. Oh yeah. So yeah, 2006 was the worst year in Iraq actually. In terms of... In terms of... In terms of of KIA and then also wounded

It was non-stop why so what happened with Iraq was we It's kind of a complicated complicated, but general Colin Powell. Yeah, said at the beginning of Iraq war that we need to close off the borders We need to close off the borders. We need to close off the borders because what we're going to do is have a free for all. We're invading Iraq and if we do not protect these borders, you're going to have every swing and dick from the Middle East coming into fighting. Reinfolicements.

Yep. Guess what happened. Almost everyone we killed are captured was not Iraqi, but from some other Middle Eastern country. It was around about that came in. They're like, oh yeah, they're bringing the fight to us. Let's go. It's like fucking red dawn, Middle Eastern style.

Yeah. And so, yeah, they came in and it was just hell. I mean, it was absolute hell. And then I ran back in them with weaponry. What I got hit with was called EFP, explosively form projectile. And it was developed by a very basic basic mechanically but very, very like, incredibly effective.

Incredible. So let's roll it back. So you've gone through your basic training. Okay. How did you feel? Were you excited to go out there? Were you nervous? Were you already ago?

Yeah, yeah. I joined, I mean, I literally, when I went in, maps is where you go to like a sign up and you do your paperwork and you get your physical and all that stuff. So I went in there and you came time to pick your job. And so you take an as-vab test which kind of dictates what jobs you can get. Okay. As long as you score 110 on your GT, it's not like an up to two test.

Pretty much, aft to two test. And as long as you score 110 on the main part of it, you can have any job and I scored 110. So I had all these job options and we're going through them all. And I look at the lady, and I'm like, who are the guys that go in and like kick in the doors and shit in raid houses? And she's like, oh, that's infantry, I'm like, yeah, I wanna do that.

And she's like, are you sure? She's like, there's like a lot of other jobs here is intelligent, and I'm like, would you, would you be able to be infantry at like a 105 or a 100? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So infantry is the one where if you score

a freaking 85, you're going infantry. Okay. So infantry's the one where if you score a freaking 85, you're going infantry. Okay. So it's like the lowest, the lowest, the lowest. The lowest, the lowest. Right, okay. Which is why she was like, are you sure? You've pitched yourself here super high, but you're actually.

That's what I wanted to fucking do. I wanted to fight. That's the only thing I wanted to do. So yeah, I was amped. Absolutely amped. Basic training for me was life changing. Um, I went in a boy who came out of man, like there's no better way to say that than that. That's not tough.

The cliche as it is, it's true as fuck, I went in and just this little fucking punk, disrespected little punk and I came out just completely changed. You'd said that you'd had a difficult childhood and a difficult youth. Did you start to find a little bit more of a sense of purpose there as well? Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, so and a family. So it was the first kind of family I felt in my life. The family up until then and maybe wasn't a family. Yeah, the definition of family was very off. Okay. And so yeah, I was just this bond, this love that I hadn't felt before, this brotherhood. And yeah, it energized me. And then obviously going to my unit. I talked to my buddies about it all the time but you know that feeling of youth right where the whole world is out in front of you and

it's just there and it's beautiful man and I'll never forget getting a Germany flying there and I would actually cry and then Baltimore when I was heading out to Germany because I was scared you know scared of leaving my family and leaving everything behind changes a scary thing yeah because I was scared, you know, scared of leaving my family and leaving everything behind changes, a scary thing. Yeah. And, um, when I got to Germany, bro, my God, I'm telling you, I was on the bus going from the airport to to my new base and I'm just, just the feelings. I'll never rush. Absolute rush. So yeah, I was ready. I was prepared. It was, it was a fantastic time period of my life. And then of course, you know, you get into the, you get into the unit and it's a whole different lifestyle change. You're waking up, well, you do it

on your own free will now, which is crazy. But you wake up five every morning and you do PT and then you have chow at seven and then you go to work day at eight and you're off at five. It's like it's just an acceptor in uniform and you're doing military shit. It's just weird.

It was just a really cool point on my life. That's awesome. So then you got deployed? So then yeah, lots of training in there and that side of it was not fun. Obviously it comes with the territory but yeah, months and months of training. How did you find that physically? Tough or mentally, but definitely tough physically as well. I mean, they're trying to get you with that training.

You're out at a month of time, right? And you're staying in tents and it's pretty much just like I rec's gonna're trying to get you with that training. You're out at a month of time, right? And you're staying in 10th. And it's pretty much just like I reckon it's gonna be because they want you to feel it. They want you to be. It's playing this, it's playing this, having you the sensation of 50%. You need to a 110% and then... If you're playing for the NFL, you're gonna go straight from college into your first game, you're gonna fucking practice. Yeah, okay. So we practice our ass, all asses off and that meant you know months at a time Staying in tens I can know in entertainment working 12 hour days It was rough, but it was also obviously when you get to combat. You're like, oh, okay. I get it

Yeah, you want to I needed I needed this. Yeah, so so we ended up deploying I got Tyrak again scared for sure You know anybody who goes to a combat zone is nervous scared but excited man excited I'll never forget driving up from Kuwait we did a middle of the night convoy from Kuwait to Baghdad as they said in Lapecom these and a long row of Humvees you know I'm in the Gunners turret just looking around just like and I didn't know bro like there was there weren't bad areas we were driving through but I didn't know so I'm up there like yeah G.i. Fucking Joe I think definitely for me like the as a as a as a Brit stereotype of a

American infantry guy would be exactly that like Get some your heart on straight up. Yeah, yeah, you should see us in fire Enough during a middle of a firefight when normal everyday people would be like freaking out you're like yeah good that motherfucker weird bro it's weird man it's weird you don't it's you don't view death normally when you're over there

you don't see it as something that can actually happen it's weird you know it is you know it's like every day it's it's it could happen but you don't think about it it's like I think that's one of the um That's one of the things from having done a lot of reading on PTSD and stuff like that which we'll get on to later One of the things that I think I've realized is that people Especially people that do that are in the army Until they're out there. They don't appreciate their capacity for malevolence and for aggression.

And it's that reflection period where everything slows down afterwards and you're totally right, like in the heat of the moment, like look at what happens when someone sees red and they get in a fight, just a normal, like a bar fight. Like would you have punched this person and like gone outside onto the street and be shouting and screaming and kicking and going hysterical? Would you have done that under normal circumstances? No. But then you put someone into a very specific situation with a very specific set of emotions and they have this capacity that is far and away from what you'd have thought originally. It's just fun to you to say that too and I

know we're going to hit on it later but that is part of the problem with PTSD is that you spend this time in combat where you turn all those emotions off that are necessary To be human and the only ones you really focus on are aggression and anger because that's what you need over there You need to have that because if you're on mute It's very very dead if you ought to if you ought to make ten three decisions Yeah, if every decision was mediated by compassion, you're not going to last for a year. No, no, no. So you've driven up, you've arrived.

We've arrived and that's actually the funny part of my story is that three weeks then I got hit by my first IED. So we had been on a bunch of missions and stuff like that up to that point. What's a mission? So going out, at that point it was route route clearance So what we would do is literally just drive five miles for an hour up and down the road looking for IDs Okay, and if we found something that was a potential ID. We call you. Do you come out checks it out? It's what's the vehicle That was a humbie. Okay. I was always in the humbie and then I had three missions in a driving a Bradley, which was cool tank

Okay, nice I was always in a Humvee and then I had three missions in a driving a Bradley, which was cool. Tank, big tank. Okay, nice. So yeah, we're coming in from one of those missions. Things had been calm to that point. Did you see any action by this? Nope, no action yet at all, three weeks in. And then we take the road, turn on to the road to go on to the base and then blue up.

We hit my vehicle. It was about a mid-range one, so it didn't breach the vehicle, into the base and then blew up. Hit my vehicle. It was about a mid-range one, so it didn't breach the vehicle, but the windshield completely shattered. It did breach the side of my TC, who's the passenger side. It came through his window and went into his helmet,

like right at the top. He actually kept his helmet and the goggles he had because they lined with shrapnel and he didn't get hurt at all. No way. But that was... What we use. I was driving. Okay. And it was on the opposite side.

Yeah. So yeah, that was eye-opener. That was, hey, welcome, direct buddy. How did the hot rate go? It was insane. It was unlike anything I've ever felt, obviously, until the other IED, but things slowed down. It was, everything was slow-motion. You know how they, you know, see it in movies

and you hear people say it, but it's the absolute truth. It's slow as completely down. I saw the windshield crack like in slow motion as it happened. It was, it was, we're fascinating. Things slowed down completely. And then of course it stopped and you're just like, oh my god, I'm alive. Yeah, yeah. And you're just in like a home visa just a big car basically like very armored car

but you always it okay so very very armored heavily heavily armored yeah okay so I mean that's that saved your life oh absolutely yeah oh five times over there yeah yeah absolutely we got hit five times that that one was the second worst. Obviously the one that did me in was the worst. And then the other ones were kind of smaller, homemade, explosive types. But yeah, they weren't super destructive. Like professionally. You're still, you hear,

next to your vehicle, that's all you really need. Okay, so you've had to your first one. And so we had our first one and that was that. And then, you know, we spent another year there and lots of firefighters, lots of, you of you know again some smaller IEDs we lost some guys unfortunately we ended up losing our first two guys April Fool's Day actually April Fool's Day it was a couple weeks after I got hit and they were dismounted and got hit by an IED and dismounted. Dismounted, it doesn't fall out of the home bee.

Okay. And then, yeah, so that's another one that was kind of like, it's weird because it's like stages in combat. You know, you got your first introduction to combat and then you lose your first guy and you have to process that and then you have to process

having to go back to work the next day and pretend it never happens, you know what I mean? Again, which is where PTSD manifests itself because you can't properly mourn them. You haven't had time to do the reflexive process, right? Because if you're thinking about them the next day, when you're on mission, you may end up putting yourself or others in danger because of it. So, well, we discussed this briefly yesterday when we was sat down talking that the period of reflection, that everything is so important. And that's why practicing gratitude and trying to have a lot of people in the normal world

will confuse busyness with success and that staying busy constantly just moving in one direction is somehow a marker for getting things right. But that's not necessarily the way that you should look at it because this period of reflection allows you to realize what's going on. It allows you to internalize the situation

that you've been through. And then out the other side of it, you have some learning and okay, I'm now ready for the next one. Whereas what you happen when you deployed is you just have a batch of experience for however many months or however many years and then you get home and you're like okay, there is a fucking Amazon truck full of shit that I now need to try and go through and

we all know that memory is one of the least accurate ways of actually recalling something. Like by the time that you're two years deep and you've been through all of this stuff, the first thing that you did, like can you actually accurately, properly reflect on that? Probably not. Like it's become confused and conflated and manipulated by all the other things that you've been through. And then by the time you get home,

you gotta go back through it again. So, okay, so we're now one year deep. Yeah, so, well, not one year deep. Yeah, so well Not one year deep again. It's just the whole process loss our first two guys we ended up losing eight total and And then we got to October 22nd 2006. We're nearing the end of the tour How much long is left two days? So we have two days left and We're doing what's called a right-sea ride where we're taking the new guys around the area of operations and showing them you know showing them around

Getting them ready to take over and Yeah, we were just routine mission got hit and next thing you know I'm I'm waking up and smoke is completely filling the the home V There's flesh everywhere just charred flesh all over the windshield. I had no idea, I didn't feel anything at that time. I'm just like, I woke up. I saw all this. So did you hear the bang? Oh, was it this?

No, it was like, I heard the bangs. It was like bang blacked out, right? Yeah. And so I woke up, vehicle still moving. And I'm just like, I have no idea what, where are you set? Dropping again. Okay.

So the vehicle still moving. I go to try to break the vehicle and my bright legs not working. Like what the fuck? I look down and I see there's like shit hanging out of my thigh. So I know I'm injured there. I still don't feel it though. Use my left foot to break. That's when my my gunner I look back and I'm like, are you all right? He sees it on the ground and both his legs are gone. One of his legs is sitting right next to me. So that's when the guy in the back, I also noticed the other, we have five people in the vehicle total. Three are passed out, two are passed out, I'm sorry, and then us three, me, the gunner, and the guy behind me were away. The guy behind me goes, hey, can

you please please open my door? Please open my door. I can't take the smell anymore. Unless you until you smell human flesh, you just don't understand it, but it's very distinct, and you never forget it. Okay. So I dragged lean back, I opened the door form because his arm for all jacked up. And I turned back around and that's when I felt it. That's when everything kinda came to slow a little bit.

Yep. And though the, um, rock helped me out here. You done? Yeah, I'd say adrenaline, but the shock. Yeah, the shock kind of started wearing off, and that's when it was the like, the most excruciating thing I've ever felt in my life.

What had ended up happening was the metal that had gone in my leg was so hot that it was cooking my leg from the inside. Oh my God. And so it was up from the IED, it was up from the Humvee. So we're actually come back around to the EFPs, exposed to the form projectiles,

is what I got hit with. We got hit with two of them. Now what these are is, there's a canister like that, right? Metal, metal canister, circular. They stuff, explosives inside, and on the end, they put this copper contact lens shape, uh, this contact lens shape is a copper. Okay. It's right on the end. When the explosive goes off, that copper turns molten and shoots. Yep. And so it hits the side of the humvee and eats right through it. It breaks through. Each right through and once it hits the AC on the inside in the hardened, so it's like a cannonball. Yeah. So I caught one of the EFPs that broke up into four pieces. So one was a baseball size, one was like a quarter size golf ball size from that then on.

And then I also was full of plastic and the shit from the door that had come into it. But the stuff that was cooked in my leg was the pieces of copper, because that's what it does. It turns it into... It turns it into... But you said there was two. Two, on either side of the road?

No, on both sides. Yeah, okay. So one stayed full and the other one broke up. If the other one didn't break up, I'd be dead. I wouldn't be here today. Really? Yes, because it didn't do the damage that it should have. The other one didn't break up, I'd be dead. I wouldn't be here today. Really? Yes. Because it didn't do the damage that it should have.

The other one didn't break up and it killed my body. It went right through his torso. And was that the gunna? That was no. That was my pay that passed under the TC. And that's the side it came through on right. Okay. Wow.

Yeah. So, so pretty much that's the point where the pain kicked in. And that's the point also where I looked over at him and knew that he wasn't gonna make it. Yeah. So, I'm fucking yelling, the gunner's yelling. We're like, fuck, fuck, fuck. I mean, lots of pain going through this vehicle. Yeah. Our guys come up from the other vehicles and pull us out. That's about big to the convoy. Only four vehicles at that point. Okay. So they pull us out. You were, is it point? I'll take it. Yes, we were point. Yep. We were the first in line, which is that's major day of tailors, the man who died that day. And that's, that was his thing. He wanted to lead. He always said, that's

what we're going to get hit. We're, yeah, it's going to be us. And, and so we're pulled out. And this is kind of the fascinating thing about this. And my story kind of revolves around, I'm a very big believer in God. I have a lot of faith. And these are my God moments. I feel like those are the moments that they should not have happened. And they did.

So when we got hit, there was a C.I.H.O.P.A. or flying overhead. They saw us get hit. They came back around and they met a Vectus out. Had we not had that, it would have taken up to 20, 30, maybe 40 minutes, maybe longer to get a MetaVect there. My femur artery was fucking knit. So I usually, like one of us easily could have died there that day, had that CIA chopper not been overhead. So the chances of that happening, uh, slimmed as like, negative number, might as well have no existed. Pretty much. Yeah. So the chances of that happening, uh, slimmed as like, negative, no, my

soil have no existed. Pretty much. Yeah. So you'll think in active God right? Yeah. I've got absolutely. Yeah. Um, because they were, it was, it was so weird, man, I'm telling you, it's at that point, I at shocks that are in hardcore, I didn't feel the pain anymore. I'm in the chopper right. My body's head's laying in my lap. So how do you, how, what happen, how do they get you out of the vehicle that will they pull they pretty much carry Us really yeah, yeah, so you got my guys there right so we have got three other vehicles behind us We've got a shit ton of guys so they're helping drag us out the guys on the shopper or getting us in So me and my buddy Al who was a dismount he was behind major Taylor. Yep. He was passed out

He had lost his leg above the knee. Okay He's his heads in my lap I'm sitting in the back of the chopper. I'm smackin' his fucking face trying to wake him up And this is one of those um little tiny choppers. The CIA Delta Force they use the little baby Huey's are super small. Is that like a Flat area? There's like just the seat in the back. So me and I were in the back. Okay, the guy they're so bad at Bro, this is like a movie, but the guy there was two of them CIA guys Yeah, and one of the CIA guys couldn't sit in the back because we were back there

So he's hanging off the side the mother fucking helicopter all drag like oh fucking GI Joe out dude and he's just like Just riding just riding. Oh my god. And so I'm seeing this when I'm in shock and just like So then this is the funniest part. It's only a short flight away, but you know, it felt like forever. I'm looking down over the city of Baghdad as we're flying in absolute shock, and I feel like I can fly. Like I legit mean at that time thought I could fly,

and I almost jumped out of the helicopter. And right before I was gonna jump out of the helicopter to start flying, I passed out. Probably just as well. Yeah, passed out. Probably just as well. Yeah, pretty good. Probably just as well. So I passed out and then next thing you know, I woke up at the cash, which is a little

combat support hospital in Baghdad. Every major base has a little support hospital for when shit like this happens. So we get in there, surgeries, and that's pretty much, I mean, that period of time that five days from going from bagdad to Belaad to Lange Dool is this is this you being rated up through better and better equipped Mediplay medical so it's that and also stabilizing you so it's like the you have the initial surgery right?

So you go to the cash. Yeah, they're cleaning you out. Okay. They do anything they may need to do like right Men in there. Fix the femoral outry. So that, they hesitated on that, because they didn't, it was Nick, but they didn't know what to do yet. Because obviously you don't want to fuck with a femoral artery in a little combat

sport hospital. So this is, so we talking like a, basically a glorified tent in the middle of the desert. Pretty much. Okay. So I was actually very lucky because I didn't cut my femoral artery, but because the shrapnel was so hot, it cauterized it immediately.

Yeah. So the shrapnel both injured, both injured and saved my life. How poetically weird is that? Pretty weird. So much justice in that. That's unbelievable. So yeah, you go from Baghdad, Combat Sport Hospital to Balaad, which is again a big tent hospital,

but it's legit hospital and a tent. Okay, huge. Yeah. Go from Balaad, they stabilize you there, you go to Langeville, where they finally like settle you. And you still, is this still in Iraq? Oh, Germany.

Germany, right, okay. And they settle. How would you get from Iraq to Germany? That was just C-130. Okay, yeah, they have a hospital, like just load you in the back on a stretcher. Stretcher, yeah. So what would that, what are those journeys like? Horrible. That, that, that whole time in my life was horrible. So, like, it was surgery every single day. So, I didn't get

water. I couldn't drink water, obviously, because you have to have surgery. You can't drink water before surgery. You have IV, so you're getting hydrated. But it doesn't change the fact that you're dying. So I'd be like fucking all the little sponges of water and shit. It had not a surgery. And then the flights, you know, the flights, I don't really remember the ones from Baghdad and Balaad,

but the one from Germany to DC was, that's like, well, probably flotinoes. It was about, I wanna see you see 130 about, yeah, about 13. And it was interesting. 13 hours on a plane is difficult on an A380 with like, comfort service. And you know, when the engine and all the rest of it.

And you got your movies and all that, we didn't have anything. And then again, you're a significant amount of pain too, and there's only three nurses on the whole plane serving. I'm telling you, you should have, you would be at 2006, I was one of about 150 on that flight. And you're talking about this entire flight is stretcher, stretcher, stretcher, stretcher, stretcher, rows of stretchers.

Like a three high. Oh my god. So they teared. They're teared. So it's like a and they're three high. Oh my god. They're tiered. They're tiered So it's like a good football game. Yep. That's how many people were injured back then And so the nurses like they're trying to do their best, but they can't hit everybody when you need like when you need pain meds Yeah, they can't get you to you and like in a reasonable amount of time So it's it was it's with was the worst flight of my life. Okay. Yeah, absolutely So now if you need to fly some way, do you just feel like...

This. Oh, it's fantastic, right? Yeah, exactly. ...plown and New Zealand a couple times, I'm like, what's the answer, you'll be like, This is absolutely fine. Exactly. So, what's the medication that the guys are giving you to suppress the pain immediately?

Oh, shit. I couldn't even tell you what the ones were back then. I can tell you, in DC, I was getting dilotted and morphine and like, the highest shit you can imagine. I imagine back then. I can tell you in DC, I was getting dilotted and morphine and like the highest shit you can imagine. I imagine back then I was, I mean, probably are those days something just ridiculous because I was in and out of it, like legitimately just in and out of it.

I was semi-conscious. Not living, yeah. Okay. Not so much to be conscious because I knew it was going on but I would just go in and out. Okay. So we get to DC. Why DC?

Walter Reed, um, Walter Reed military medical center. Is that because of why you would deployed from us? That because that was the best facility for dealing with the military medical facility. So they have the army has to okay It's ones in San Antonio. Yeah, I'm them ones in DC So I guess you can't burn victim you're a burn victim, you go to Texas. If you're anything else, you usually go to DC. And the kind of ups and ends of the country is about two degree, I guess. Yeah, right.

So yeah, so we ended up going to DC. And at that point, I still had my leg, but it was just trashed, obviously. And the familiarity was still kind of in limbo. And it was October 31, 2006. So we're talking what's nine days later. Nine days later it's Halloween and I hadn't been sleeping man. I mean a lot's in lots of pain. As you can imagine lots of pain meds and so it's a real bad insomnia. And then obviously you're

starting to realize what's happened to you. Which again you again, you actually, you know, you do, as I said, you don't think about death over there, but you know it's a possibility. You really don't think, nor do you really consider the possibility of losing a limb or getting injured like that. You know, it's just not a thing you really think about. You know it's there, but it's just like, you just never really put yourself in that position.

So I'm just sitting here like, wow, what now, you know. Yeah. October 31st comes around and it's four o'clock in the morning, I'm 5 o'clock in the morning, I'm watching Home Improvement on TV because I can't sleep and all of a sudden, you know, I have all these machines hooked up to my leg and shit and one of them pumps the harmful fluid out, right? Okay. Starts pumping out blood, like real deep, burgundy blood and like, no, that's not good. So I call a nurse nurse comes in like oh no big balls up some

Towels and puts it under my leg to put pressure on it and about two seconds later the the bandaging rips off and blood starts fucking spurtin dude like Fucking three feet into the air and I'm just like tripping. He's tripping now, too like he was all calm before and he just starts Shrieking out. Now it is again. There it is. And that next thing you know within seconds, my room is full of medical personnel,

frantically working, blood's covered my sheets. And what's happened? My femur blue. Okay. So it had been nicked and then it was nicked. And I had been in surgery, then clean and shut out. And we just it was it couldn't take the pressure anymore. Couldn't take so this in the same way as a like a slow puncture in a tie. Then high speeds turns into a

yep. Yep. Okay. So I can't explain the feeling but it it's almost like theatrical, right? It's like, you're in a fucking movie. Like, is this my life right now? Am I bleeding to that right now? And like, you know, you're getting woozy and the TV starts like 3D now. He's just so fucked. And I remember begging them not to let me die. You know, I'm just like, don't let me die. Don't let me die. Don't let me die. It's all I could say. And I call him mystery doctor, but he was an African-American doctor, very handsome man. And he, right here, he pushed down, and where my funeral meets my order. So hard that it was sore for about a month after, and he saved my life.

Had he not done that from my room to the OR, I would have died. Absolutely. So he'd stem the flow until I could get through the OR where they could get a turn to get on me. And absolutely saved my life. So I'd stem the flow of the net until I could get through the OR where they could get a turn to get on me. Yep. And, uh, and absolutely saved my life. So I get to the OR with the time. It was actually quite a bit. So you're, I went from, I think the OR was on the fourth floor and I was on the sixth floor. So we literally, he had to take me from my ward all the way to the main elevators, down the elevator to the fourth floor and then to the OR. And he had to hold time steady pressure, the whole fucking time, walking along the, the, the, the, the, the, the whole time steady pressure the whole fucking time walking along the

Burnie which is difficult as you're moving as well. Yeah, yeah, and So I got to the OR and remember them freaking out and getting me on the table I'm still like woozy but still with it and you know they're stuck here and they're putting the turn to get on and the next thing you know just I'm out and then I wake up and I'm in the ICU and and I'm out and then I wake up and I'm in the ICU and there's staples all down this side. I've got a scar run in the length of my leg and it looks like Frankenstein. And then this side is just new bandages and shit like that. Like what the fuck happened? Doctors in there, my parents are in there. The doctors

like wow, it's like you gave us a really, really good scare there. They ended up telling me that they, my from Arty Blue obviously, I lost two thirds of the blood in my body. Two thirds of the blood in your body. So we're talking about eight pints probably. Yeah, so what was the 5.5 liters in the human body? So, well, in 180 pound human body as well.

Okay, yeah, yeah. So I don't know a lot of blood. How, what's the level at which you die So I don't know a lot of blood. How what's the level at which you died? I don't know. But all I know is that. It was about two thirds. So what they did immediately was people are faint after they give a pint of blood which is half of the liter. So we've had that again if that had happened and I've been bagged at I would have been dead. Yeah. So thank God I was in the hospital they could get blood up. I mean they started pumping blood through me right then and there Yeah, once I got to the OR

So anyway yet woke up and said gave us quite a scare there We ended up having to take the vein out of your left leg and put it in your right to create a new Marauder so your left legs Vane is in my right leg right leg's femoral artery and they they pretty much just flip it around So they take it out here flip it and turn it tooral artery. And they pretty much just flip it around. So they take it out here, flip it, and turn it into an artery. No way. Where to God, man.

It's crazy. Medicines, it's fascinating. Incredible. So that's another beautiful thing about it is, I lost six inches of my femur, right? So when it went in, went in right here, blew out this side. I lost above that much of my femur.

They had to take it out. There's just little pieces left. They grew my femur. They had to take it out. There's just little pieces left. They grew my femur back using bone grafts and stuff. I had four different bone grafts and they grew all of that back. And it looks fucking crazy and weird and wicked. But it's a bone. I run on it and all that. It's like, it's just blows my mind within.

I mean, for nothing else, I've given blood once, but never that much. But hearing a situation like that where someone's life gets saved by the fact that they need about 5, 8, 10 points of blood, whatever it might be, people aren't donating blood. You're dead. And then that's one person, and I got blood more times than I can even count. Because most surgeries, I have, I've had 37 surgeries and most of those surgeries you come out of, if you bleed a lot, you need blood. Dude, I got blood probably about a quarter of those surgeries and then obviously with the

femur artery, I got blood. I mean, those were some days. Big two days, yeah. So, yeah, so, I mean, I woke up and my life was changed, man. I mean, I just, I was so fearful after that because I was like what if I was sleeping when that blue You know, I mean what if it blows again? Yeah, what the fuck am I gonna do? So I didn't sleep if I thought I couldn't sleep before that I didn't sleep at all after not at all Wow

And so that ended up that's the femur artery blowing is while I lost my lower limb, okay? I initially was you know, they thought I was going to lose my leg up here because of where I got hit. I didn't have damage to my lower limb. Okay. But because of the femur artery, it was about a 14-hour surgery, and they had the turnip and on for so long that when they took the turnip and get off to rush the blood back down the new vein, it's called compartment syndrome. I know what it is. Yeah. So I got that real bad and they had to do fasciotomies on both sides. You briefly explain what compartment syndrome is for patients you don't know. So pretty much the doctors explained to me

in layman's term as a hot dog that's in the microwave too long. So it's too much pressure because of the blood flow. It hadn't been flowing for a long time. And all of a sudden that pressure, it blows the frickin' leg up and you have to slid it to relieve that pressure. What happened with mine was that lead to necrosis of my muscle and my lower

limb because of the pressure. You only need 13 hours without blood flow for that to a kill. Yeah. So I mean it less than that too. Yeah. So you know the tolerance that you needed probably maybe six hours, eight hours, 10 hours, or whatever. And you could have had the same. Yeah. So they ended up having to take a big flap on my muscle out due to necrosis, and that flap on muscle was what was used to lift my foot up. Yep.

So after that, you know, obviously it took about a year to walk again, all that shit, but by the time I had come to that point, you know, fast forward two years, my leg was worthless, man. Like my thigh was getting good and all that, and I was getting stronger, but my lower leg, it just, I drug it around with me. There's no dull deflection. No dull deflection. No dull deflection.

You can't lift the toes off the ground. No. The reverse of a calf raise. Yep. Could you do calf raises? Yes. No, no. Yeah, calf raises.

Yes, yes, yes. So you could go up on your toes. I could go up on my toes. I could go up on my heel. I could go up on your heel. Yep. Okay. And so I had surgery to try to fix that didn't work. So how come we've, you've had the, the otary and the vein switch over. The next year or two years, is that heavy rehab rehab rehab rehab rehab.

So I dislocated my knee and the incident too. So good six months was just working that knee back out. Oh my god. Yeah. So that my knee and they never fixed it. So it just healed itself down. Yeah. It's all scar tissue and stuff.

So I had this little Vietnamese physical therapist and she used to just get up there and crank it man and it would be horrible. But yeah. So that was a good six months just. So it's the knee. You know, for me watching my my only experience of seeing Army rehab is like what you have seen on Black Hawk Down and like sort of super American movies. But is it like that?

Is it the parallettes with the buttons? Oh yeah. And the Zimmafram, like it's helping you wall the sweat in the shaking. Oh yeah. Absolutely. And then you have to work hard in there. If you don't work hard in there, you see the drastic difference in people and they don't do what they need to do in rehab But if you work hard in there, you're killing yourself. I mean it sucks. I really really sucks

But did that for two years? I had a tendon transfer to try to get my dorsiflexion back and didn't didn't really work and And also I was getting Hammer toe so because I didn't have the ability to raise my my foot up or my toes my toes were slowly but surely going like this. Yeah. And the older I got the more they would do that. And those are extremely painful. Yeah. A lot of pain in my ankle as well. A lot of pain in my foot arch. Okay. So we got the point where I said I can't fucking do this. I'm 22 years old like I'm young. I'm in physical therapy just dying and I'm looking at these guys with prosthetics doing this crazy shit and I'm like, how many I was a week are you

doing rehab for that year or two years? About four hours a week. I'm sorry, four hours a day, five days a week. Four hours a day, five days a week. Yeah. So it's a full time job just to get your body back to work. Because you have to do your stretching for 30 minutes and you have weight training for an hour and then you have to.

So it's like you're being a professional athlete to just become a human. Pretty much, yeah. Yeah, which is what it takes. I mean, you have weight training for an hour and then you'd like you to be in a professional athlete to just become a human. Pretty much, yeah. Yeah, which is what it takes. I mean, you have to. That's mind-blowing. So, um, yeah, it was really, I'm thankful so, so, so thankful to have been in the rehab facility I was in with other combat winded veterans because I got to see those young guys with their prosthetics doing this crazy shit. And I'm like, that should be me. Like I shouldn't be fucking, I'm talking about crazy shit with it. Would box jumps and running and you know, like just things I would have never ran again, you know, I would have, it's just the things that I wanted to do as a 22 year old athlete. And so I went in, I said, is there anything we can do?

You know, and they mentioned elective amputation. And I said, you know, they said you got to think about it. If you want to do it, we're willing to do it. You know, we've done it before. And we just can't promise that it'll work out. So it took me about a week. How I was going to say, is that decision to lose a limb? Yeah. It's like, I actually read up a shit ton online, obviously, in that week.

During the period. In that week, yeah. And one of them likened it to losing a family member. And I really much is, because it's a part of you. Yeah. And but after that week, when I met him, it's my decision, it was done. I didn't. And then you have to wait six months,

they have to make sure that you're mentally sound, right? You're not just like having an awful, awful limb. Yeah, like I'm gonna time a half. Yeah, I'll get it. I'll get it. Maybe lose a limb, whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, I went through the six months,

which is good for me too, because I shouldn't. You need to do the recess at six months, bro. I'm like, let's get this bitch off, man. Was it during that period, was it getting worse? Yeah, absolutely. And I was seeing, I was feeling the limitations of my body. So two years of rehab, right? And I'm like, every was feeling the limitations of my body. So two years of rehab, right? And I'm like, every other part of my body, my thighs

getting stronger, my bones getting stronger. Like the veins, the femur's back. Like everything was coming together but that. Yep. And so I was at my, I was at the ceiling. I had no, let's get that motherfucker off. And my dad to this day, it's the only surgery I came out of with a smile on my face, man. The only one, my came out and I'm just like, I knew it was new life.

It was like, this is my opportunity. I had reached my max here and now I knew that the ceiling is just so raised. Walking tenfold. And, oh yeah, so the funny thing about that is I have to throw this out there. Some of my favorite pictures, but we actually had a going away party for my foot the night before. And all my buddies signed my foot. My dad was there. He signed my foot. My sister was there. And they put a little coupon cut line on there. Don't cut about this line. I went in for the surgery. They're like, oh my god. Yeah, who's this guy? Yeah. So yeah, I got to have a call. So how do they do it?

Oh, I mean, just they pretty much so, go through, because mine is different. The beautiful part about having your leg and doing an elective amputation is they have a lot of shit to work with. They've got, they can choose exactly what. Exactly how they want to do it, what they want to use. So have they, the wherever it is that the cut has been made,

is that the optimal... Optimal. Yeah, optimal for in terms of legs. Okay. So it's what's the specific kind of amputation that it was. Is there a... Just BK, it's called Bologna Amputation. Okay.

Yeah, there's no like specific, they're all the same. Yeah. Um, the fuck was I, oh, so they cut it, but they cut it right to the back of the muscle, right? And then they take it off. So that big muscle flaps right here, right? Yeah. Then they take a little piece of your tibia and they sew it into your, I guess you've got shitlets of sped, shitlets of spare parts. I was like saying it's like Frankenstein shit. Yeah. So they take it one into the rear. I really always wanted to stick to it. Can we go rev on my forehead maybe to see how it looks? So they take a little piece of tibia and they connect your tibia and fibula at the bottom to make a good little support.

Yeah, because I just call it a hurdle. There's a lot of pressure that's going to now be going so if it's just in it, if it's only two bones sticking straight down, you can imagine that it made me end up hurting. So they put the hurdle on the end to act as kind of like a nice little. Okay. And then they bring that flap up. Yep. And sew it. Okay. Pretty much it. And yeah, so got out and then it's back to rehab. You know, another year rehab, it took me about a year to learn how to walk right and about another year to run right. And then by the full years of rehab, four years ago, two years. Two years for the earlier two years. Six months to make the decision. Yep. Another two years off the back of it. Two years ago. Two years ago. Two years ago.

Two years ago. Two years ago. Two years ago. Two years ago. Two years ago. Two years ago. Two years ago. Two years ago.

Two years ago. Two years ago. Two years ago. Two years ago. Two years ago. Two years ago. Two years ago. Two years ago.

Two years ago. Two years ago. Two years ago. Two years ago. Two years ago. Two years ago. Two years ago. Two years ago. Two years ago. Two years ago. Two years ago. Two years ago. Two years ago. Two years ago. Two years ago. Two years ago. Two years ago. Two years ago. Two years ago. Two years ago. Two years ago. Two years ago. Two years ago. Two years ago. Two years ago. Two years ago. Two years ago. Two years ago. Two years ago. Two years ago. Two years ago. Two years ago. Two years ago. Two years ago. Two years ago. Two years ago. Two years ago. Two years ago. Two years ago. Two years ago. Two years ago. Two years ago. Two years ago. Two years ago. Two years ago. Two years ago. Two years ago. Two years ago. Two years ago. Two years ago. Two years ago. Two years ago. Two years ago. It just, it proves to me that I made the right decision. I'm happy with that. You know, I've never regretted it, not once, and to be able to look back now and be like, man, look at all the things I've done that I never did. Even though it sounds so crazy,

it's such a reverse, reversely logical decision for a normal person hearing that to go, I chose to lose a limb, and it's the best decision I could have made. Like for most people, that would be the, you know, it's heart-sinking, one of the scariest things that you could do, and yet for you, it's what's giving you life.

But see, I had to live through two years of the year. You knew what it's like on the other side and the other side was not fucking fun. Okay, and... So what's it like learning to walk? It's not much, honestly, it's not much different. You know, it, you gotta be, you learn to walk again as an adult. So it's, it's kind of different. But the feeling wise, it's kind of one foot in front of the other, you know,

and I mean, but it's, it takes a lot, man, a lot. And a lot of that has to do with not the nub or the lower limb, but you're the rest of the body, because it all has to adapt. Yeah. You don't realize how much you use your foot and half for pushing off for everything. So do you feel like your core is like just you're absolutely in a rush now? You're awesome. You've got to, you'll have to balance through your midline

as opposed to using dorsiflexion to restabilize, right? So you stabilize your whole lower leg mostly through your core as opposed to with your toes and with your ankle So yeah, that must have been a real a real change if I am accountix for you to stay in the Burm on real and it does it takes a long time. I actually had real bad foot drop I'm sorry real bad hip drop when I was walking after I got Amputated okay because you you require a lot more as you said hip and core movement and and activity than nor will you So it's real bad hit. Yeah, so like that

So what she hit I did this for six months man an hour every single day. She had me walk toward a mirror walk back Walk toward a mirror so that you can see what I was doing and so talk me through the rehabilitation Is it that we backed on four? four hours a day? Yes, absolutely. So, and then once you get your leg, but that's a cool part is, so like I told you, I was kind of like, I'd reached my point about a year into my first little stunt, and I was just kind of going through

the motions after that. With the leg, every day, better, better, better, more, more, more, more, more, more. I feel like you get enough to it. By the time I was, I ended my rehab there in Meda Thierry Tire dude. I was the guy in there that other people were looking at, like, oh god, I can do that one day. They teached to me, it was really fucking cool.

That's amazing. I was the one doing box jumps in there. I was the one doing sprints. I would, like, it was, it's fantastic. It's like full circle of life. Yeah. So it was really fucking cool. I was in a really good place then, man.

Really, really, really good place. And then our Medicare tire, and I'm like, man, the whole world's out. It was like that new feeling again. All the ways out of that. And then, yeah. The world shit all over me. But it's civilian life, man.

It's funny how that shit works. You're just like, so it's talking through reintegration. So that's, like I said, there's this excitement, right? Like, I'm gonna go to college. I'm gonna be a college kid. I'm gonna do all this stuff. You don't fucking realize how much support you have at that military medical community.

You don't realize how much from the doctor and from the doctors to the rehabs, to the friends you've made there, to the other combat when veterans who understand what you're going through without even having to say a word, to the nonprofits that are of veterans who understand what you're going through without even having to say a word to the non-profit center there to help you. You have literally an army of people there to support you and you don't realize what it does for you until you leave it. And so I ended up going to college in Lester,

Genie, because I wanted just a fresh start, you know, I wanted something new, didn't know anybody there, and it ended up being my downfall at that time because I got there and there was, I mean, I I didn't know who I was, man. I didn't know who the fuck I was because my life four years of it was rehab. That was my life. It's getting better. At 22, most people don't know who they are. Yeah, let alone someone who's been in this strangely insulated, isolated, very unique, very difficult to compare with anyone else's experience, situation, and then you come out and then you've got to try and reintegrate. Yeah. Then you have to imagine this too.

You have a purpose, military, you have a purpose, deployed, you have a purpose, even injury, you have a purpose. I'm getting better. Yeah. When you lose all of those purposes and you're onto the next one That's when you're like oh fuck. What am I what do I do now? I've got to go to this lecture I've got to like and I tell you what I just didn't know who I was I didn't know where I was going I didn't know who I was gonna become I how old how old we know at that point what was I I got hit at

21 actually two weeks before my 21st birthday and four years of about 25 mid-20s. Yep. Um, yeah, so I had planned on doing 20 years in the military, so I had no idea dude, I had no idea what I wanted to do who I was going to be starting to find a life nut. So I already going to school for finance and I ended up rushing a fraternity because I spent two weeks there so unhappy, so miserably unhappy and alone, and dealing with this new onset PTSD that I was either about to go home or just like, I don't know, I was out of options.

And so I ended up rushing opportunity, which was both good and bad. Obviously, you know, I made friends and it gave me that social aspect, but it's not a good environment for a veteran dealing with PTSD to be around alcohol and drugs and partying, nonstop. Okay.

And so my life kind of unraveled at that point a little bit. And I got to a point I had spent a year there and I said, I gotta get out of here. I'm regressing. I'm not doing, I'm not becoming a better human being. And so I decided to move to Florida. And again, one of the worst years of my life, the first year there, just because I knew no one. what we doing that In Florida? Yeah, I started school back down there too

But then I also at that time I was traveling about two to three weekends a month for this nonprofit It's a group of amputee conveying amputee's who play softball So that was really big for me and that's actually the foundation of that sports, right? Okay, so I was on that team played ball for a and that's actually the foundation of that sports, right? Okay. So I was on that team, played ball for a year, really enjoyed it, gave me some purpose and I was with those guys which meant a lot, but the guy that let it was a rat fuck and he like stole money from the organization shit like that. And he was using the guy. So I got out of that and how that sport started from that was because I was like, I want to do this the right way.

So yeah, the first year in Florida, I was traveling with that team and going to school, but you know, and you know, no resources in the community, there was, there was nothing. And it's a good thing. Well, it's just just not that. And I think for me, the main thing I needed

was just veterans man, like, other military people, just people that could understand me. And so that sports was started in 2012. That was my second year in Florida. I lucked out, had a mutual friend of another combat when it veteran and had a combat when it buddy of mine and all three of us had really bad transitions

and realized that while the military medical center community has all the support, once you get to the normal civilian community, there's not. Is it a little bit black and white? Absolutely. It's fucking night and day. It's a post-same general ramp that serves you back in. So what does... If you can try and define what PTSD feels like, can you try and define it? Can you verbalize it?

The only thing I can say, I did this pretty extensive therapy called art therapy. Art therapy. So it's not art art. It's accelerated resolution therapy or something. It's pretty much based on eye movement. So a lot of it is internal. You think about a lot of stuff and you follow their hand with your eyes because it allows you to kind of process the thoughts better.

Brilliant fucking. Brilliant therapy. And what they said was when we go through traumatic events, we don't even mean to do this, but every event thereafter runs through this filter, a filter of that event. So you view and experience things through that filter because it's there, it's this block in your head.

And so you can't enjoy things like normal, you can't, you don't feel compassion and the normal feelings that other people have, you're just kind of void of it all because everything is being viewed to those filters and that therapy, they pretty much, their whole thing is they break down those filters. Try to remove the lens so that you can view everything with a fresh perspective. Okay. Um, but it's tough. you can view everything with a fresh perspective. Okay. But it's tough. So it's PTSD is just, it's all encompassing, man.

It's always there. And it's just, is it like, if someone's had anxiety, does it feel like anxiety? A lot. So that's the thing about PTSD too, is it manifests itself differently for everybody. Some people have nightmares. You know, I have nightmares all the time too.

That's part of PTSD. Some people can't do crowds. I'm all right with crowds. It makes me uncomfortable as worse back in the day You do some exposure therapy and you get over it But there's a lot of different. That's why it's hard to explain exactly what it is. It's just such a It's such a a ruthless Affliction that the fact that it's almost bringing back your first weaknesses. So there's a really interesting story from King Arthur the night to the round table and they've got to go off, got to look at the dragon, right? He's got to go and go and slay the dragon.

And each of the knights has to enter the forest at the point which looks darkest to him. So each of them, they don't go in on one path. Each of them has to walk around the forest until they find a point at which looks darkest to him. And that's what that feels like to me. That's that feels like someone who it brings up like it's find it's capable of manifesting your weakness. Like it's the kryptonite, your kryptonite, but it's not everyone else's. So it's yeah, I mean the my the so the you're that's brilliant way to put it actually I love that because it's true So my some of my flaws my wife has been self-hatred and anxiety and the PTSD takes both of those and fucking ramps them up Jackson, I'm up to 11. Yeah

and So I you know alcoholism drugs. I mean I was in it all And so I you know alcoholism drugs. I mean I was in it all I just needed to I had to cope somehow I had to just erase it and numb the feelings a lot of that goes back to what we were talking about earlier where You have to turn these emotions off for so freaking long and utilize only the net the really bad ones that you really shouldn't That when you come back you don't sound switch you can't just switch them back on. So I had to learn over years and years. Did you ever find yourself like feeling aggressive again? Oh yeah. Dude, I my, and West Virginia was big on this, but my fighting during my early 20s, like mid to, like even later 20s was ridiculous. Really? I was in hard fights.

I didn't have that red toe. Red toe? Red toe? Okay. Nope. Yeah. I would get Trump fight all the time, split up. And so the art therapy, as I was saying, I did that about four years ago and it changed

me. It allowed me to feel those feelings again. It really brought all the emotions to the forefront. So you're following the hand and you being talked through. You're being talked through. You're kind of prompted, but a lot of his thought prompts. I actually have one of my books 30 days. I discuss it a lot because it did mean a lot to me. And I wanted people to know about it. But so if anyone's interested. But yeah, it's very much here in your own head. You're thinking about one of the things they do at the end of everyone is, so my childhood stuff was a very big basis of that.

And I'd say it really helped me a lot with my childhood stuff, about 10 times more than my military stuff. My military stuff has very much been like this year, year, year, long battle. Years long battle. And the child's stuff too, but that was like life changing. So do you think that mentally you're in a better position now having gone through the art therapy

and started to move through the PTSD with dealing with what happened before you were deployed as well? So I think, I think the art therapy getting me through that childhood shit allowed me to then go and battle the PTSD. I was like, I was stuck. So was it kinda like you had to get,

okay, I got to get through the first 16 years of life and deal with that stuff before I can actually, so you've got PTSD on PTSD. I do, yeah. You got PTSD. That's what it is. PTSD squared. Yeah.

Pretty much. And it's a really tricky thing to fucking figure out. Where do we stop? Where do you fucking start? So I ended up luckily, I was getting long mass way there. The end of every art therapy session, you envision yourself as a child. You know, if you have childhood issues.

Yeah. And you're holding your child to you by the hand and you're walking him across the bridge. The negativity is on this side, the positivity is on this side. And you walk him across this bridge, and you see a fire, a big bonfire, and you stand next to that bonfire and you start throwing all that negative shit in, right?

And then you look down to your younger self and they actually ask you, what would you tell you younger you? And I think I said, believe in yourself, don't let other people dictate how you feel. And she said, okay, good, say that to yourself in your head and then let younger you start throwing stuff in the fire too. And it sounds fucking weird and hoagie man. And the first time I did I felt weird, but I got a fucking tell you dude, just existing in that. It changed me man. It changed me. It was a very powerful thing. And I think obviously it had to do with the whole session,

the session as a whole and then ending it with that. But yeah, there was something significant about that. Did you find it? So for some of the listeners will be practicing meditation at the moment and some of the practices that you go through on that can be they can be difficult in the same way that picking up a heavy weight is difficult but it's mental right and did you find it testing to be able to start visualizing that sort of stuff because it's a very specific way of thinking right it's an incredibly unique skill. In the same way as being able to do a snatch is a very specific mental physical skill.

You're being asked to do something which is very, very fine and discreet mentally. Yeah. Did you have to cultivate it over time? Did you have a... Certainly, but the thing about R-3 about R32 is that it's very quick. It's accelerated resolution therapy called them for reasons, it works quickly. So yeah, the first session,

first few sessions you're like, okay, it takes time, but yeah, but you also, in order for that to work, you have to be open to it, you have to. If you're going there thinking, oh, this is fucking hokey bullshit, it's not gonna work. So yeah, even though I, in my head, I'm like, okay, whatever.

And when I went in there, I said every time, I said, you're gonna fucking make this. And you're gonna be open-minded. And you're gonna- I mean, look, to go back to the decision to lose the limb. Like, you know, you had done your research, you'd read through, and then you go, I'm gonna go for this.

Like, this is all or nothing. Yeah. And, you know, a hundred percent commitment, I think, is there must be a lot of people who have maybe gone to do our therapy and have had that doubt in the back of their mind and then they haven't elicited that same result that you did. Yeah, absolutely. So, it was unfortunate because it really was,

it was fantastic, it was incredible. So, is that the basis of your recovery? Yeah, because like I said, I think it knocked out that childhood PTSD. You know, it allowed me to move past that. Okay. And so did you find kind of like eating layers of a cake? Did you find different sensations and different tastes

as you moved through the layers? So it's like a floodgate has been opened, right? So where I never felt love or happiness or joy or anything like that in the years prior, I felt them like I'm an infinite level afterward. It was weird. So like I was watching over the well Yes, but in a kind of a beautiful way because I was feeling again and so like one of the things is It's so ridiculous, but like I'll watch a YouTube episode of The Voice or something. You'll have somebody who's like,

maybe they're meek or they had some terrible childhood and they go and they're fucking just kill it. I cry on that shit. It's not weeping now. I weep like a fucking baby. That would have never happened back in the day, ever. And that was one of the big things. I just feel more. You can find meaning into it. Yeah, ever. And that was one of the big things. I just feel more.

You can find meaning into it. Yeah. Okay. And so, yeah, it was huge. It was significant. So you've gone through the art therapy. What's next after that? Well, so the art therapy and vet sports started about the same time.

So I also found my purpose again at that point. So tell me about vet sports. It's what I want to get on to. So vet sports again, the bad, the shit transition, right? You know, and then that bad organization, I was like, you know, I know this works, bringing veterans together, I know this works, and having some sort of active activity.

But what if we did it the right way? Not only that, what if we provided it within the communities where people are returning to? I mean, they're transitioning to these communities. How could it be to have a little club there? So, like I said, the three of us came up with the idea of having the community-based clubs that revolve around sports, athletic events, community involvement. We help other charities as well through donating our time. And then, you know, get together. It's a bench. Just bringing them together, social events.

And so we started that sports. Our first club was in DC and then I started, it's a bench, just bringing them together, social events. And so we started Vetsports, our first club was in DC, and then I started one down in Tampa, which is funny, like I didn't have any friends at there at that time, right? I made all my friends in Florida from Vetsports. So yeah, that was growing and really becoming something, and so I had that new purpose. I was still battling, absolutely, I still battle this day, that shit never goes away.

But I think, you know, it's just progress. Yeah, it's progress. Even little progress is huge when you go through that kind of life. And, so what's the, what's the process of starting a sporting organization for veterans? Like, what do you, how do you find them? Well, it lots of recruiting,

a lot of recruiting methods, VA, student veteran organizations. Yeah, I had to learn all this. That's, that was kind of the funny thing. You know, it was a lot of pressure, recruiting methods VA, student veteran organizations. I had to learn all this. That was kind of the funny thing. It was a lot of pressure and it definitely, and those early years, because I have a lot of self-hatred and self-doubt, stuff like that. It was tough because I was a big old task, right?

Yeah, because you really, you know, I can do this, is it worthy? Is it worthy? Should it be me? Should it be me? So yeah, you end up, I had to learn it all. And, but we did it. I mean, we recruited through colleges and VA's and other nonprofits.

And it's just, it's been cool, man. What are the sports that you guys? Anything. So we really, at the end of the day, we want to know what they want to do. So if you have a club, say we have a club in East Texas, and you want to do some ski shooting, then they do ski shooting. Whereas in California, if your crew wants to do surfing,

then we do surfing. It's all dependent on the area and what the need is. But we like to keep it mixed. We do softballs, kickball, ski shooting. There it is again. Everything. We do everything. We definitely focus more on team sports aspect of it.

There's a lot of nonprofits out there that are helping and doing good stuff. We believe in the team sports aspect of it because it kind of gives you that new goal. Yeah, brings you together that allows you to work together again. Part of a team is big military thing. Obviously, so it gives you that feeling again. Does it feel a little bit like a brotherhood again? It is. Brotherhood. Absolutely. Any guy in Vestworks will tell you that Vestworks is a brotherhood I hate seeing brotherhood because it's a sisterhood as well but it's a family. It is an absolute family and that's what we wanted it to be. We didn't start out wanting to be a big organization where you

can't reach out to the founder and say hey tell me about Vestworks. So how many locations even? So shit, that's I'm like I took us to back this year, right? So like all this shit's happening now. It's like I've sent my kid off to college Right. Yeah, I did all the things I needed to feel like it's until in monster. It is. I'm not yeah I'm like it just runs it's a tone out of it. Yeah, it does its own thing a Randy Thorpe is our president I mean, he's a fantastic. He's another combat window veteran who co-founded it with me and an incredible human being and he is absolutely The reason best words is where it is today. No, I've done my part and I've done everything that I can to bring it to where it is But Randy especially with this new growth. It goes to him

I mean we're we're in a lot of places. So just to try to name them all Michigan Colleen Texas Jacksonville the Panhandle, Tampa. We just did one in Norfolk. Fort, hold on. I can't even fucking remember it. Two up in Michigan, DC, Westchester, New York. They're everywhere, man. New Mexico. It's talking hundreds of people. Yeah, a thousand. Thousands of veterans. Yeah. A thousand, thousands of veterans. Yeah.

It blows my mind to see. Do you have any idea how many people have been, like, from start to finish? You've been a member of that sport. So like, if you were to put a... I don't have a specific number of thousands, absolutely thousands, yeah. And the fact that it's hard on reintegration and all the rest of it is probably going to be pretty profound. I think so, yeah.

I mean, I think the proof is in the pudding for sure, but from what I've seen, yeah, I mean, we've, we've, we've, it's been beautiful, man. We've seen a lot of people who were in the exact state I was in who just come out slowly, but surely it's funny. It's a process. One of my best friends now is actually one of these guys who just showed up one day and it's like this timid like watches first. It doesn't really talk to anybody and just checks it out and then the next week they come and maybe they talk to a few people and the next week they're like hey can I get a uniform you know it's like they build this point and then like like my best friend now. I see it in him the change and I don't know where some of those guys would

be now if it weren't for it which is a good feeling to have. It must be incredibly empowering. Yeah. You know, to take your experience and then also your passion, which was sports and somehow create something that's meaning and puts people on a different trajectory and yeah, yeah, that's the end of the day. That's what that's our ultimate goal is to. If you guys still got the it's kind of like the baseball logo, but it's with the artificial like sports leg, is that, do you know that the silhouette? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Is that still your emblem? That's my idea. I'll make sure it's in the show notes if anyone who's just listening needs to check this out because it is so fucking cool. Yeah, I love that thing. It's so cool. Is that who's that?

That's me. Is that you? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so just like halfway through the swing of the baseball back, but you can see the, that the back leg is a prosthetic. Yeah, yeah? That's me. Is that you? Yeah, yeah. So just halfway through the swing of the baseball bat, but you can see the back leg is a prosthetic. Yeah. It's cool.

The kangaroo kind of. Yeah, yeah. Arch foot man, it's just sick. I think when I first, first ever saw that, I was like that. I love it. I just loved the branding. I thought it was really, really good. So vet sports now is purely US based.

Are you aware of any organizations which is similar elsewhere in the world? We aren't, no. And international obviously, I have taken a step back, so I'm not gonna make these decisions so much anymore. I'll probably put them out there and see what, but I would love to go international at one point, like a UK vet sports club for me to have easy,

easy to find. They fought behind the Citus Canada Italy. at one point, like a UK, that sports club for me to have easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy,

easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy,

easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy, easy You've said that reintegrating into normal society, there's maybe some work to be done there But you sung the praises of the immediate reintegration and of power What are your impressions of that in other countries? Do you think America leads the way with that? Absolutely. I'm really big-send you. Yep. Okay. I know some UK guys who lost limbs overseas Who are not taking care of and the way they should be. Germany is terrible.

Well, unfortunately due to their past, they view their military with distails discussed. And when they get injured, they're just, they're left. That's terrible. Defenseless, pretty much. That's terrible. So yeah, I mean, international for me,

obviously we had a long way to go. We're a very small organization, completely grassroots. But yeah, I mean, 20 years from now, if there's a lot of sports UK,, best sports Canada, I'd be the happiest mother fucker on her. I bet. Yeah that's awesome. So you found some meaning with that and then you started writing.

So that's another side of the fucking story man and it's so weird hold on real quick. Can you tell them that what time is it now? It's 5 to 1. Yeah can you tell I mean it probably going to be another 20. I said rock down to me. Okay. Um, ask me. Oh, yeah. So the writing.

Tell me about the writing. So here's the thing. I've always been a writer. I've always loved it. I've always loved reading. Which is surprising, you know, like, Amigur, you know, like hypermasculine, all that stuff, but then you've got this other side. I grew up writing lyrics. I grew up writing lyrics. I was writing lyrics and I was playing music and shit, horrible music.

But I was always the creative type. I had always felt empowered by utilizing the written word to feel something. And I've always been a reader. Arles Stein, Stephen King, I grew up on that shit and I would devour those books. And so I always loved it. I didn't write when I was in the military. I lost my passion for writing when I was in the military and when I was healing up. And I had to kind of discover that passion again. So I'm taken finance in school, PTSD's fucking shit down in Florida, first year in Florida this time. PTSD's rough, I'm miserable man year in Florida this time. Yeah.

PTSD's rough. I'm miserable, man, and I hate my classes. I'm going to classes every day and I hate it. And I'm like, it's not stimulating, you know, intellectually. So I'm like, bro, what are you doing? You're medically retired. You have an organization that you know, you found in, you care about, that's giving you purpose.

Why are you not chasing it? Why are you not doing what makes you happy? Yeah. And so I switched my major right then and there to creative writing. OK. And just with the hopes that someday I'd maybe get an opportunity.

At that time, I thought maybe I'd try to do some like script writing contest, screenplay contest, and see where it took me. A year into my creative writing after I'd switched it, I got reached out to you by Michael Stokes. Michael Stokes is a pretty renowned photographer who one of his campaigns or one of his passion projects was shooting combat with an amputees, but male forms.

So very like masculine sexy photos, both prog with prosthetics in them. It was kind of to take away from the process. It was their beautiful photos. And when I first saw two guys did it before I did, and I saw those about a year before Michael reached out to me and I was just like, just m-m-m- said fuck yeah, you practice for quite a while for that. I so he hit me up. I think it was July and I shot in December and then we were supposed to I think I was supposed to shoot in in October

This is the first and only time in my life where I was like I ate everything I was supposed to I trained Ass off yep, yeah, and I look fucking fantastic photos are in believe it will be in the show notes but yeah it was five it was five months of that and I hated my I hated everything about my life I fucking hated a bunch you know it is it doesn't matter whether you've been a war on no no one likes diving no it doesn't matter who you are no one wants to be unadorable so yeah so I ended up doing that shoot and then I he's real big in the romance community a lot of fans on that so I ended up doing that shoot and then he's real big in the romance community. A lot of fans in that, so I started getting traction in the romance community.

And I had no, I like you, we were talking about it last night about like, you had no idea this world existed. I just got thrown into it, man. You opened Pandora's Boxman with the romance. But it was beautiful, it's like, you said, yeah, it's a fantastic community that you just, nobody really, not a lot of people know about. So yeah, I stumbled down the rubble.

Tell them about that. Rabbit Hole got my first couple covers and then I had a website at that time and I had some of my short stories on there and an author who had published two books, read my short stories really liked them and had a military romance storyline that she didn't think she could just do justice to. Reach out to me, ask me if I'd like to co-write it with her. How daunting was that? I'm terribly daunting.

Is that up there with like, forget vet sports, forget having to do the leg, like, I got to write a book. That's literally fucked this up. Yeah, great. Top of his mental task I've ever done in my life, even top of the more. Yes, it was definitely afraid.

And I will say this, it's, if I didn't have a co-writer, co-author, that kind of walked me through, I don't know how long it would have been before I tried even to write a book, even being in the romance community as a model, I don't know how long it would have taken me because it's daunting. I don't think there's very many guys that make that transition, right? It must be difficult to be both a color model and an author.

Well, unfortunately a lot of guys have been, but it's successful. Well no, for me, I was a and it's successful. Well, no. For me, I was a writer before I was a model, man. I am a writer through and fucking career. I just happen to model as well. I just happen to model as well, whereas there are some that go from cover model to writer for money sake,

because they see that they can make a follow-up on this side. And that disgusts me. And so I actually for years, pretty much my whole career until about a year ago, I had to fight that battle, that kind of that label. I was labeled the model turned writer and all my guys, I was going to school for writing before I ever took a photo. And so yeah, I finally now I'm at the point where I think people see me or see my name

or hear about me and it's writer. It's not, it's writer, the model. Writer slash model, not model slash writer. Yeah, which is cool. That's important distinction, I guess, when you want to. Absolutely. When you want to work to be viewed with autistic integrity, yep, you need to make sure that that's the way that it's done.

So how many books do you publish now? So I've got two co-written books out. I'm working on my third co-written one now and then I've got two co-written books out. I'm working on my third co-written one now and then I've got four four solo books. Wow, and then you go the super secret one that that's the co-written one the Co-written one that's super secret and no one's gonna get to find out what that is. It's gonna be last minute Yeah, I'm hoping to come out with that one about September is August. Okay, and now about September and Yeah, pretty much I'm just gonna drop it. You know for that. Oh, I'm so pumped, dude

And it's not only that but the story itself has been very writing so difficult man It really is writers blocks a very real thing So there's times that sit there and nothing'll come out or it'll be really clunky and just what this one It's just like straight from my brain to my fingertips. So I'm really excited to get it out there Yeah, that's fantastic. Yeah. So I mean, it's, it's such an interesting story, and this is one of the reasons that I want you to get you on, to just hear the arc of so many different things. But I think, you know, if you were to try and, uh, if you were to try and work out a consistent narrative of what's happened throughout what you've been doing. It's been a commitment to decisions.

It seems it's that I'm going to do something and it's a full dick and balls, like the full length. And I'm going to go for it. And you know, like I'm going to decide to lose it. Like I'm going to decide to move out and go to school. I'm also going to decide to go to a different one. You know, for me, certainly I can pontificate about a decision like which fucking yoghurt

to have for five minutes in the supermarket, right? And like, you know, that ability to, that foresight and that ability to choose, I think is really, really important because there must be so many people, so many veterans and another people in life that they just waver in this sort of gray area between two things. important because there must be so many people, so many veterans, and another people in life that they just waver, but in this sort of gray area between two things, and that's where nothing gets done.

Right? Yeah. It's actually pretty interesting, man, because, you know, like I said, self-doubt, self-hatred or things that I battle significantly, or self-doubt, but said self-doubt is in terms of my work, so like doubting my abilities and doubting my storylines and doubting that. But, it's self-doubted in terms of my work, so like doubting my abilities and doubting my storylines and doubting that. But when it comes to decision making, my whole life, it's been, I make that decision and there's no fucking looking bad. Would you be prepared to outsource decision making like if I need some decisions to make? Absolutely, bro. I can just set the notes. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, you want to get the blackberry yogurt and you want to go for the, yeah, this smoothie.

I'll be a professional decision maker. I think that you could be. But yeah, I don't like living in that world of like what if, right? Well, what if sucks, man, because you can't, it doesn't, like me, I desperately wanted to play college ball, man. I even tried out for a University of Tampa after losing my leg and did well, but not good enough.

Yeah. Always been a dream of mine and it's something that I do. You know, I think about my man that would have been nice to have that life. But what the fuck can I do about it now, man? Yeah. I can't go back in time. I can't do anything about it. So I hate living in that world of what if it just doesn't mean no good and really my anxiety.

It could try it through the roof. So I've learned, yeah, when it comes to big decision life decision making, it's like for one, put a lot of time and research into it, make sure you make a solid decision too. When you make that fucking decision, stick with it. Commit to it. Commit to it. Fully. Man, I think that's it's such a lovely sentiment to have. And when you think, you know, hopefully some of the people that are listening, it's I think it's very easy. It's the rhetoric of look at how hard someone else's life is, look at how much someone's been through, but their life's completely different to mine. But when it comes

to stuff like decision-making and committing to your values and moving forward and doing what it is that you want to do, because I think a lot of the time people, people know what it is that they want, they just don't have the bravery to pursue it. No, they're so worried about all the possible outcomes, right? Like, it's, that's where people get caught, I think, is because they're just, they know what they want to do, but they're so stuck in the future, what ifs that they can't make that decision because they're like, well, what if that happens? What if it happens?

Or this could happen. This could happen. It's like, yeah, okay, it might do. But that's, it's the leg. And I'm maybe, be honestly that leg probably, that probably that leg decision was what led me to where I am now because that was one where, I mean, the what ifs for that are significant.

I mean, you can get it infection. I was gonna say, how many things can go wrong? A lot of things can go wrong. You know, I could have ended up worse very much so, but the thing is, I did enough research. I put enough time in, talked to enough other amputees where I said, I think I have a great chance of being fine here. I know in my heart of hearts that I have the work ethic

to get there. So, fuck, let's fucking do this. Whereas, you know, if that is in that decision, if I was like kind of wishy washy, yeah. I mean, what do you do? I would probably have been in limbo for another two years until I finally decided to cut it off, you know

So yeah, that probably was the first decision that was the nuts that the deck of cards just starts to fall from that right once you have Once you make the decision to cut off your own leg like every decision after that. That's pretty basic Well on that note Let's finish it that. Can you tell the listeners where they can find you online and where they can get after your books? Absolutely, yeah. So, bterella.com is where you can find all my covers on there, some of my short stories,

everything's kind of there. Vetsports.org for anything, Vetsports related, we have everything up on there. Ways to help. More about who we are and what we do. And then Facebook, obviously, B-T-R-L on Facebook. B-T's book, Battalion, is where we talk all things book related. And, yeah, Twitter, at B-T-U Army. I mean, they're all out there.

Amazing. I appreciate you times. Hey, thank you so much, Craig. Thank you. Appreciate you, bro. I like it. Amazing. I appreciate your time. Hey, thank you so much, Chris. Appreciate you, bro. Bye.