Modern Wisdom - #043 - Relationships 103 - Cheating, How To Get Over Someone & How To End A Relationship

Episode Date: December 17, 2018

Relationships 101 & 102 both landed in the Top 50 Chart Worldwide on Apple Podcasts, here we go again. Jonny & Yusef join me as we delve into the murky depths at the end of a relationship. We explain our views on why we have cheated in the past, our strategies for getting over a partner and the best approaches we've found for delivering breakups. Discover what research says men & women fear most in relationships, why cheating is just parabolic discounting at it's finest and why saying "I'm not attracted to you, at all" is a suboptimal approach for justifying a breakup. Extra Stuff: Relationships 101 - https://youtu.be/Sm4lIGLmYEE Relationships 102 - https://youtu.be/O9FA4uJj_pM How To Get Over Someone - https://youtu.be/tAsH_LXT9P0 Stay In Or Leave A Relationship - https://youtu.be/YGV5o6UHjxM How To End A Relationship - https://youtu.be/VPXIzJcfAMk The Worst & Best Ways to Tell Someone It’s Over - https://youtu.be/f4d6UcRCQDc Check out everything I recommend from books to products and help support the podcast at no extra cost to you by shopping through this link - https://www.amazon.co.uk/shop/modernwisdom - Get in touch. Join the discussion with me and other like minded listeners in the episode comments on the MW YouTube Channel or message me... Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chriswillx Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/chriswillx YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/ModernWisdomPodcast Email: https://www.chriswillx.com/contact Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Well, hello there friends. We are back again, relationships 103, 101 and 102 landed in the top 50 Apple podcasts worldwide chart. So if you would do me the honor, please share this episode with a friend. They've already helped a lot of people in relationships. We've had breakups and makeups due to the advice and stories that we've given out so far. So fire it in a group chat if you would be so kind. This time around we are talking about cheating. Why we do it? What the research suggests about why men and women cheat and what they fear in relationships. How to get over someone. It's a

painful process to go through when a relationship ends and perhaps you didn't want it to and how to deliver a breakup. All of these are illustrated with some very colorful examples from our dating history and names have been changed to protect both us and our exes and friends from being used as a public example of what to do and what not to do. Don't forget to drop me a message if any of the points resonate with you email addresses in the show notes below or get out me a Chris will X on all social media. But for now, enjoy. Enjoy It is Johnny Newfiff from Prokerm Fitness Hello Hi, Nick. Hello. What's my name?

I'm Messy Not The Star. Today we are going to talk about relationships 103. We have done two very successful episodes that I think have helped a lot of people or at the very least helped us understand our own stunts on relationships. That's a good feedback on relationship. Punt, it's ended a relationship. It ended a relationship. So I got a message from someone I want to say to you. I'm so careful.

I got a message from a girl on Twitter saying that after she watched one of the relationships podcasts, she decided to finish a relationship she'd been unhappy and for a long time and was now four weeks handsome, feeling liberated and better for it. So congratulations. It's a grand final. Exactly.

So today we're actually speaking of ending relationships. We're getting to the darker parts, I think, of relationships. We're going to talk about cheating, how to get over someone, and how to end relationships. It's quite a murky world, this one, isn't it? We're down into the depths now. We're all of the fish, you've got long teeth

and they've got those little... I'm the only one who's the top of the tolobe and the teeth become like this. Yeah. And one of the worst things is that all of us have got really terrible stories about us. Brilliant slash terrible, however you would like to look at it indeed. Yeah, I think we left off last time trying to work out how to establish a good relationship

and move it forward, but obviously, it doesn't matter how well you try and start things off inevitably. Relationships do sometimes go awry and certainly in my experience, in relationships, the beginning of, for me, the first realization that there's something wrong is when sexual interest starts to wane. So for me, that's like the first warning signal. As soon as that starts, I'm like, I'm not being interested, I'm not being challenged, I'm not starts, I'm like, ah, man, I can't not being interested. I'm not being challenged. I'm not being, I'm just not as bothered. I would say when sexual interest starts to wane, that's the sugar recoding to the relationship and it reveals any underlying malformations with the way that you've come together. And

it makes it more obvious because there's no longer any sugar coating to make that better. And there was two themes that you mentioned in 102 about when you meet someone and you have slightly misaligned values and as you grow together, those trajectories will move further and further apart. And then when they get to breaking point, then there's a natural progression which is breaking up. And the other was about tomorating things or what was the word you use like keeping someone right or yeah drawing lines in the sun. Yeah, having those boundaries and if you don't set them early on over time as the sugar coating starts to dissolve. Yeah, that's kind of right, isn't it?

You get kind of like compounding interest on differences between the two of you, or it's like the trajectory of a rocket ship. Like if you're 1% off at the start, by the time you get to the moon, you're actually like a hundred thousand miles apart from each other. And it's like you're holding a rope and you both just start walking in the desert.

Yeah. Like a stretchy rope, let's say. Long one. Long one. So, and lasting. Yeah. And you both just start walking together. You think you're walking parallel, but over time you start realizing you're both walking like that. Drifting

apart. And then eventually the rope pulls more and more and more and you either allow it to pull yourself together and you re-align your values together or you carry on stubbornly going your own way until you, yeah, and that. It's not all you've had. Yeah, and that. See someone else who's holding a bit of rope and think, fancy a bit of that rope. I hold it in this one. And then before you know it you've got a hold of five bits of rope. Oh that's when you're trying to hold on the one you just lean over and get the other one and then hoping they don't notice but they can see that you're holding on the two ropes. And then you've got one on your mouth and then you've got like, I don't think we need to talk about what we've got in our

mouth. Not yet. Yeah, relationships were important. That's one of the four. That's the that's available on a member's only website. What to and what not to put in your mouth. Quite certain requirements for that. Exactly. So yeah, I think should we start with cheating in a relationship because we've still got the relationship at this point. We're still in the relationship.

We're the imaginary relationship that's had a million different time. We should probably say then, like, if you watch, if you're watching this and you haven't seen 101 and 102, these move in chronological order from God's sake. Yeah, hell, I mean, why are you watching 103 before you've watched 102 and 101? 101 is, 103's got better stuff in. I always do that, I was watching

a half bad, I think. How are we going to eat dry food? I've got an X and an iPhone 1, haven't you? Fair enough for whatever. So, cheating in a relationship, a couple of things that I'd like to kind of mention straight off is that there's certainly been times where I've been, my infidelities in relationships haven't been massive but they have been, that they've existed. And one of the main reasons that I've done it I think is to kind of protect

myself, I've kidded myself into believing that if I cheat in a relationship that somehow gives me some sort of power or if I've got some insecurities about the way that the other person feels about me, it almost comforts me and kind of pads those out, gives it an artificial sense of inflation where I'm, oh, I'm not as bothered like I've slept with someone else, so I'm not as bothered like I've slept with someone else, so I'm not really that asked. But all that you're doing there is you're just papering over cracks of a problem which you're going to get worse. And in fact, actually, you're just driving a wedge into them because if you're concerned about how you feel about someone,

sleeping with someone else is a pretty sure fire way as beginning to. So are you saying cheating whenever you have cheated it's been a political move? Or is it just that it's unconscious behavior that then as you think about it, it's like, oh, maybe I did that so that I can distance myself from it. Yeah, I think in retrospect, I'm not really too sure at the time, at the time, it's quite sort of primal and... Tits and not. Yeah, it's a bit of a shagging and not.

But yeah, I think it feels like an insurance policy somehow against being hurt. That's interesting. It makes sense, like, yeah. Have you both changed your own piece of it before? Yes. I've never changed on someone. I have.

Okay. So I never viewed it in the way that you viewed it. That feels very, like, step away from the situation. It's like, here's a situation happening. I'm gonna go to another room and think about it and then come back in and make a decision. I feel like mine was always like,

this situation kind of doesn't feel as good as it used to. So I'm looking for the next one, if that makes sense. Oh, so you were prospecting. I think so. I think so. That's a different motivation than, isn't it? That's like, I'm unhappy in this, but I'm not doing it as an insurance policy

to feel better about this relationship. I'm just looking for a new rope to hold up. So I think actually that's, I think the reason why most people cheat is that they believe that the sugary coating is the, the, the, the, things to chase. Yeah. And so like I also think that every relationship has a fixed trajectory. So like there's this, you can count the same problems now, like in the relationship you're in now, then as you will, and the one that you move into by cheating, assuming that most people like they're married,

for example, they cheat on their partner, and then end up in a relationship with the person cheated on, thinking that they will never experience the problems that they had with that person. But actually, they're just starting again, and in two years time, probably on a worse premise as well, because you've then started a relationship as a fair. Well, so the one way to know for sure that the person that you're with will cheat on you. How's the capacity to cheat? Is because you met them by cheating on someone

and they were cheating on someone. There's a meme flowing around that says, if you cheat with you, he'll cheat on you. Well, like, I don't think that's an unfair thing to say as well. Like, pass on to behavior is you fucking obviously Fucking obviously. Yeah, so yeah So that said though I think I'm having cheated on someone before I

Now realize how just utterly Pointless it is like it just utterly pointless it is. Like it is hyperbolic discounting and it's biggest. Most of the city is form. I've got a grant. Where is it? Where is it? In my foot.

Thanks, Johnny. Is it going? Yeah. Great. I'm glad that we featured that. So, yeah, hyperbolic discounting thing, it's from 101 and you mentioned it in that. So you need to go back and watch it, yeah.

For heaven's sake. So I totally agree, there's kind of like a product life cycle. Exactly. And then you've gone, you've got like intro, growth, maturity. And then is it beginning to tail off all that you're doing is just starting again. Yeah. And actually,

I think the, some of the best parts of relationship are accessed only after you've gone through that period of time. Through the, the lull and the culture. Yeah, or it's a lull if you choose it to be a lull. It's a lull if you think like, I'm so back into my analogies of like treating a relationship as an asset, like people think that a relationship happens to them. And then when the relationship starts working, they think, well, the relationship starts working so I need to find a new one, rather than the relationship starts working, why do I invest more time in the relationship to try and make this relationship better?

It's like you've gone, you've put all this work in finding this person building a relationship with them, having all these experiences with them, then as soon as some sexual interest or whatever goes, but a lot of people, myself included, at one point, have gone, fuck this, I'm off. Rather than actually, why don't I just double down on this and see if I can fix the problem? It's like a startup cost or a fixed overhead to a relationship, isn't it? Yeah. To the beginning, everybody needs to do the same things. You need to meet the parents. You need to work out where they live.

You need to work out their schedule. You need to try and align yours with theirs. And there is a administrative headache. It's a nightmare. It's a bloody nightmare. It's a bloody nightmare. So you have to repeat that just for the sake of novelty. So we got criticized last time for I think it was your

analogy of the second hand car market in relationships. And actually this... Right, I felt that it's entirely accurate. Well, I will fight to the death anyone who thinks that that's not right. Yeah, you're commodifying women. It's like no, you're assuming... Yeah, we're talking about men and women. We're in both directions. So in all directions, all directions, yeah, it's not by directional.

That would put me in a box. That was videos a Dean that looked over and I see. For anyone who's listening, you will notice there is a discrepancy about whether video man Dean is called video man Dean or video guy Dean. So we've decided that we're now non-binary and we're name fluid.

So no prefer pro-nound Dean. No, yes. Video person or video's... So this... This... This curve. I feel like you're making writers. I...

It's a very serious, very serious problem. I'm fully serious. So I tell you all... I'll tell you. This curve... If you were to buy a decent car to begin with, now and your plan is to keep it for 50 years, you would spend some time looking for a good car, you wouldn't get a cheap rubbish one.

You would then invest in it, you treat it well so that in 30 years time or 50 years time it becomes a vintage car or becomes a classic car. Rather than if you got a rubbish one that has no prospect of becoming a classic car in the future, then yeah, you're going to have to keep hopping between cars and finding new ones. Did I use my human allergy? No, that's time. I remember using the human allergy.

So the shoot, the shoot allergy, I'm going to get, someone's going to get upset again. So imagine if I said, so this is very like very timpour. So imagine you're going, you're going traveling, single backpack, and you can take with you one pair of shoes. And that pair of shoes has to be comfortable to walk in. Yeah, it has to be appropriate for, if you're smartly dressed, you have to be able to go to the gym and in them.

You would pick a fucking good pair of shoes. You would spend a lot of time weighing up the pros and cons of all those from pairs of shoes. In relationships, what a lot of people do is see the flimsy high heel and think, I'm going to buy them. And they look nice. They work in one specific area of your life, or they may be mapped to one specific situation

or one side of your personality, but actually, when you want to go for a walk on Sunday morning, they're never going to work. Or a pair of lifters. Yeah, I saw a video the day of a guy walking, I can't remember where it was, he was just walking along the street in a pair of the Tskot shoes. So that's a man who bought the wrong pair of shoes.

He bought the wrong shoes. I bet his relationship is terrible, is it? It's an awful in relation. So in the same amount, if you've got a fit for purpose. Yeah, you've got, you're buying these pairs that this pair of shoes are like,

you're investing in this situation that, you're gonna be with that person on holiday, like in the house when there's nothing to do, it all these different situations, so you better make sure that it's a big degree. So that's buying the Volvo, isn't it? Knowing that it's gonna last you. So to go on to the Turbo and some nice exhausts.

Yes, Cheaty-Ons. Well Cheaty-Ons, isn't it? So the cheating side of things, why do you think people cheat in relationships? Why do you think men cheat first? I think it's the belief that novelty will cure the problem that they're experiencing, the feeling that they're experiencing, whether that is lack of connection, lack of engagement, feeling unhappy with the person. So like, something happens in the relationship that they're not the existing novelty by definition, whereas after it's no longer novel, and we are in a society whereby you are constantly aware of other options

in relationships. So walking down the street on Instagram, Facebook, whatever, like there's a lot of different, every tip where you're in a more direct sense. But even if you're not in a dating market, you're still presented with... Window shopping. Hundreds and hundreds of different people who are single, who are sort of advertising that life as you're wearing social media. And so to try and tell yourself whether this is in a relationship or anything for that matter, like the decision I've made is the best decision, and I'm happy with that.

And no alternative is possibly better when you are in a situation that you are feeling doubtful of, and it's the signs gone off it. And suddenly, there's an opportunity placed in front of you and you think that novelty that is appealing, people tend to make a short term decision. I think we're signalling, again, off, hotness rather than beauty to a degree as well.

Remember the analogy from one or two, people are using that as a gauge of, well, this is potentially more beautiful because there's a novelty bias and a recency bias as well and all of the other cognitive biases that we see. So hot, some Jimmy Choos, beautiful is like a nice pair of

nanos or like they could be one in loads of different situations. I got that. Like they're really nice. But they're not quite as glitzy. Yeah, I got that. Why do you think women? A pair of marbles. Yeah, yeah, man. They're probably going to be some cat boots. Yeah. And why do you think women cheat? You said so there's there's a few psychologists that have formalized what Johnny has just said there, which is the the stereotype that men will treat for cheat for physical sexual novelty and women cheap because they feel unloved. And that the primary driver of men's motivation in a relationship

is respect. and for women it's love and if they don't feel like they're receiving that respective thing then they'll start to be unhappy in the relationship and want to leave. There's an interesting study which looks at asking people who are in partnerships, what would be worse for you if your partner was having great sex with someone else, or if your partner was deeply in love with someone else. On one side, they didn't care about them, but were having good sex, and on the other side, didn't ever touch them, but sent very meaningful messages and cared about them deeply. Yeah, exactly. So those two kind of opposites on the spectrum and men would always say, or in general, would say, I prefer if my partner was deeply in love with someone else, but didn't touch them,

and women would prefer the opposite. So I think that's quite interesting with the way that we're wired and way. So, sorry, sir, again, what about a preferred? So men would prefer if their partner was in love with someone else, rather than if they were having great sex with someone else, but it was meaningless. I think that just hugs. I really can't decide. Really? I think I would. I'm probably part of that stereotype. You prefer that they're in love.

Yeah. Even though it's illogical because that's harder to remedy. Yeah. In this situation right now, it's easy for me to, it's easy for me to rationalize, but the juvenile ego inside of me, I know how visceral and how stomach punching it is when you don't feel like you're good enough. And it's, there's nothing that you can do to stop to want that feeling to just fuck the fuck off. So this is a visceral like Aubrey Marcus was talking about when his wife first had sex with someone

asking he started this polyamorous relationship that he spent a lot of the time like dry wretching on all fours just like yeah great one Aubrey insane great one how about we have a soccer ball there. It's soccer ball. Fucking bone bone broth on a morning mate. Yeah enjoy that while you have that with you. Wife's getting leathered all over by some 21 year old from Austin, Texas She's your sniffing you Incent of candle trying to be pretty walking on bear grass fuck off all right in a book. It's really misleading And loads you in to begin with thinking actually what we this might be all right and then you get about 20 pages

this might be alright and then you get about 20 pages in your work. Oh my god, bunch of books. It was these throwing axes at a plank of wood in the fucking garden. That's Aubrey solidly. Never gonna get Aubrey. It is actually, it's okay. Please come on, Aubrey. So, yeah, I think both of those analyses are very accurate. Let's say for me, it was kind of like a protectionist strategy.

Like, if I, it is, is a hedge, but it wasn't because I never had a lot of the time. I never had any intention of going off with one of the other girls. Right. What I was doing was I was using it to protect my own insecurities about not, about concerns about the partner in my relationship. So it was like, if I've cheated, then at least I've cheated. It's the, I've got it in there first. Is it prison with dialenna?

Yeah, it's like a steel, steel or split. Yeah, exactly. You're still in first, so they can't, you can't, you can't steel as much as I've stolen, because I've stolen first. So it limits your worst case scenario, which is, it's a huge fallacy. It's just not true. You think that it's going to somehow hurt less, but the difference is you've robbed yourself of

the one thing that you could have held onto, which is the fact that you could have been virtuous. There is nothing, there's no sympathy for anyone in a relationship if you find out that both partners have cheated on each other. Well, then you're just in a mess, aren't you? The relationship's ruined once the first partners cheated. Absolutely. Like once that's done, it's especially if it's if it's withheld from the partner. Yeah. I know some people are like, oh, it's brought us closer together because then we became honest with you. But fuck, fuck, anyone, anyone who says that you've managed to make a partnership work because one of you's cheated on the other one is chatting shit. Yeah, it's rationalizing it to feel better about the work.

Fuck off. Honestly, like, you're trying to, you're kidding yourself. You're absolutely kidding yourself. You cannot, you could get into, with into with Marky Orpheus or re-market. So sex at dawn, that book, I haven't read it, but he's a big believer in polyamory and that monogamy isn't saying it. Anyone on red who's read sex at dawn is completely shifted their perspective on polyamory. Really? Like, oh my god, like I'm never getting married now, and it's like I'm almost

getting to read it. Bollocks. Like, so that's looking at it from very, very briefly. I've done two podcasts with evolutionary psychologists recently. I'll lay a couple of points on you two guys. Um, lay them on us. Female women on. Female women. Female women. Female women. That's a joke from Relationships 101. If you haven't noticed.

A joke that I can't even remember. So I don't feel bad if you're thinking, oh my god. I listen to Relationships 101. You were here. I was here. You existed. Anyway, I might be instance. So female humans, they don't have visual ovulation. They visual ovulation is that right?

What would it be if you can't see when a woman's on heat? Obviously, there's subtle signs, right? Yeah, we pick up on it. Yeah, but mostly you can't... It's not the same as like a dog, but you know, I mean, it gives off pheromones. Okay. So anyway, then there is the fact that Sex is a very long process for humans compared with other animals. Not for me. What's love to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to

have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have

to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have have to have to have to't know what time of the month it is for her, so you need to continue to have sex. Sex lasts for a while and feels relatively good compared with some other animals as well. And what this leads to is consistent sex, consistent, long, pleasurable sex. And what's the outcome of that? Pearbonding.

Hmm, okay. You have a greater sense of a bond between the male and the female. There's a couple of things about the size of testicles are supposed to relate to how promiscuous the females are because the bigger the testicles, the more seeming there is to wash out the man before you. That's straight from the mouth of Professor William Von Hippel. I've heard this. I guess you might have been hearing this,

that's something similar where like the glass. Shape of the penis. So the glands of the penis is shaped, has that the corona, the ridge, so that it can... To vacuum. Yeah, so he's seen the penis. There's a penis plunger video, which video man-deen, if you can make it work,

will be here. And we're back. Oh god. Every time I play it's going to be a headache or something. It's going to be a pain. It's going to be a pain. It's going to be a pain. It's going to be a pain. It's going to be a pain.

It's going to be a pain. It's going to be a pain. It's going to be a pain. It's going to be a pain. It's going to be a pain. It's going to be a pain. It's going to be a pain. It's going to be a pain. It's going to be a pain. It's going to be a pain. It's going to be a pain. It's on there, yeah exactly. Pugum and I. So a corona exists to scoop other men's sperm.

It creates a vacuum that pulls other semen as well. As you mean you've, you, having sex with a woman who's just had sex with someone else. Assuming you are, I think the technical term for that is porridge stirring. Okay, porridge stirring is the, yeah, the, the clinical term apparently is, yeah. Great.

That's how it goes. Lovely image. I'll be doing it wrong then. If that's what you're supposed to do. Yeah, you're gonna use a big two hands. Yeah, big stirrer. Get in there. So yeah, I think the evolutionary justification

for cheating aside, the orgasm as well. The contractions push the semen up into the uterus. Zorro. Yeah, so up into the ovaries, so like the contractions. So if you make a woman orgasm during sex, supposedly that is a strategy to improve fertility too. So if you go to, you won. Yeah. So the man's corona.

And if you have an awesome matricle face as a man, you're more likely for your partner to orgasm during sex. Is that true? Apparently the women... Is that cause or effect? I don't know how they studied that though, but yeah. Fair enough. So yeah, I think, I think you're fairly symmetrical, John. I'm just checking. Yeah, you know, you're the same on both sides. Yeah. Um, checking for that. So yeah, it was an insurance policy for me. It was trying to make it. Hold on. I brought a monogamy.

You started talking about coronas and glands and coming. And I don't feel like we made any progress with that. Not me. So you said, I'm going to talk about what Mr. Vaughn Hipple said. That was it. He spoke about it. The different elements of sex and what is long and pleasurable and it's happening all the time Because you say bonding. Yeah, so okay. Okay, so so therefore monogamy isn't the option or isn't the solution

Isn't always is is the solution. Yeah, that's my amary. It's my evolution. Yeah, it's probably I'm right to me is one of those things. It's like It's like at the start of this year when I was like you know what I'm gonna do in our meditation every day that'll be fine three days in. Full hell. Dry wretching on the floor. Well your wife's been in the air. The idea that's presenting this book that's convincing everyone like I'm sure that it's very convincing but at some point you've just got to get down brass tax and be in a relationship where you're both seeking other people. Well, we've got-

Yes, so it's that- And when we spoke to John Romaniello, he lives with two women and he's in a triad of a relationship. And the way he described it, it just sounds like a real- That's a good forecast to him because he is a man who is fully doing it. He is in a polyamorous relationship with a lesbian couple. And he was like, I understand that this sounds like most straight men's dreams, but trust me, administratively, there's a lot going on.

Ah! Ah! Because you've instantly, like, with a relationship, there is one thread, one rope. Yeah. Instantly. He's like a man taking 12 dogs for all of them. I'm not so much so many intricacies in each of those relationships to manage all the

time. And like by spending one more time with one of them, you buy a definition, spending less time with the other. So like if you're a relationship now, you're already having those feelings of like I'm working too much. I'm like the gym should be. I'm with partner one. I should be part of that.

He must be so productive to even just one, I should be with you. He must be so productive to even just be able to put the time in. I think it's a very effective one. Fine. Fair enough. So, what was the response to your video, the Why Men Cheat as explained by Family Guide? Did you get many comments?

A lot of people replied and I think there was one woman who said, no, it's because they're cheating. They're just cheating our souls. And I mentioned that the word cheat was in the video, is in the actual text of the video. It was almost impossible to see the video without reading the word cheat. But I think why men cheat, as explained by family guys,

they're just novelty biases. It doesn't have to be better. It just has to be different. And I think a lot of men and women can kind of agree, it makes sense both logically and it's been reflected in experience. Yeah, I think like although these are stereotypes and they're always kind of easy for mental heuristics to jump to quick conclusions. Certainly, I've seen women

cheat for that reason as well. And the things with trends that we talked about with love versus respect and sexual novelty and all this stuff like certainly works the other way. And I think the way that female sexual behavior in the last 20 years has become progressively more masculine or how stereotypically masculine in that women now become protagonists and the pushes of sex now because there's less of a clear gender role, there's less shame and so on around the whole thing that now cheating behavior is almost matched as well. So I agree. So yeah, moving forward from cheating, I suppose, is

how do you end a relationship? If that's what I'm gonna feel. No, it's Dean, like a big poo. Definitely, Dean. Do you feel like a big poo, Dean? Dean doesn't speak. No, Dean doesn't speak to me. Um, yeah, I've sold it to myself. How do you end a relationship and ending a relationship generally?

Or should you, when should you end a relationship? That's a great question. So question one, when you cheated on or when you cheat, should you end a relationship? I mean, it's something that's having quite under that. It's about 720 now. I think the thing that we brought up before about if you, if anybody claims that someone cheating on them, brought them closer together in a relationship,

they're chatting shit. It can only make things worse. I do agree that there's probably a couple of people out there, there's some people out there for whom they may be able to continue as the same, but it's not making a relationship better. That is fucking shabby. Well, it's removing trust. Yeah.

Distroying trust. There is an agreement that neither of you are going to do that. And one of the people has done it. Unless. So we spoke to James Bailey on the podcast, very interesting guy, Polyamorous person, recently in a monogamous relationship, but just said at the start, look, I'm tempted by other women, and this is the case. So if I'm going to have sex with someone, I'll let you know, but this is, this is it, and you can as well, but let's just discuss this.

Is that cheating? I suppose it's not because they've set out the terms to begin with, haven't they? Because cheating is really just defined as reach of... ...not adhering to the terms of the arrangements. The terms need to be put in advance, and this is, that's a great point that we've missed off there. The fact that where do you draw the line with what isn't isn't cheating? And I recently had a discussion with someone who is regularly on a

morning TV show and she had been on saying that a man liking other women's photos on Instagram counts as cheating. And I was like, Theranath, I don't agree, because you are implying a because you are implying a goal out of that you're implying a particular desire that he's trying to achieve by that same argument. It says more about her than it does about the men. Two degree, but the same argument would be that a man, your man who's looking at another woman in a bar is exactly the same because that's pretty much the same thing. But the very furry grey line of exactly what isn't cheating, like is holding hands cheating, is having a meaningful conversation with someone cheating, don't hold hands.

We're cheating. You are cheating. Oh, he's true. On quiz, because he told us not to. Oh, yeah. You've broken the terms. Yeah, like where does the line get drawn for cheating? But I think definitely should you split up with someone when you find out that you've been cheated

on? I guess that's a very individual, individual question. Depends how much it matters to you, I suppose. So is it the relationship matters more? Should you, as in like, it depends how much the specific instance of cheating matters. Okay. We read the comments of the stuff and I'd be really interested if someone could comment if you've ever been in a relationship where someone's cheated and you've stayed together and you were glad that you did compared to... And to improve things.

That would be, I mean, that would be very surprising. Because I did. I stayed with a girlfriend after she cheered on me and it was such a mistake. I was just like, why did I do that in the first place? But it's just because I was too clingy, I suppose. And looking back, I was like, if I'd just taken that as the... Because it's already late stage. By the time someone cheats, the relationships already broken by the time they...

It's an alarm going off, isn't it? It's not the problem. It's a lagging alarm as well yeah it's like it's so far after how much life did you lose like six months so it's significant proportion of your existence so far I mean it wasn't life lost but yeah like you know it could have been life spent doing other things right not investing your time in someone else you didn't deserve it. That's true. One more time in judgment pool, isn't your breath? You could have done exactly, you could have thrown out six months early. I mentioned the size of my carotid artery there. So I think certainly one thing in terms of like how to when to finish a relationship,

the presiding rule that I've realized over the last few years is that if you are unhappy in a relationship and you want to finish it and you're certain that you want to finish it, you should finish it right now. And the reason for that is that not only are you wasting your own life, but you're wasting someone else's as well. It's respect for your self-hand for the other person, isn't it? Like if you know that it's not going anywhere and you can't pluck up the courage to do it yourself,

think about the fact that you're wasting the other person's life too. I mean, if you need more motivation than that, I'm afraid I can't give it to you. What are the big objections to doing that? So fear, fear, difficult conversation, fears of making it one decision, fear that you'll only realize that you're only realizing that you

made the wrong decision later down the line. Because I think like any big decision, the fear is, I'm going to do this. I regret it. Because if you were, if you knew you were right, it wouldn't be difficult. It'd be like, I was in a shit conversation, but I need to do it. It's how do I know? It's bad now. I've had some bad experiences. I'm not sure it's going anywhere.

I'm going to have this awful conversation, but I might see him or her with someone else in six months' time. I'm going to have a picture. So it's like, how do you... That's just prolonging the... It is, isn't it? I'm going to hold on to something to avoid that potential feature, pain or discomfort. I'm going to cause myself six months of mild discomfort and pain rather than... I've made it last a long time. I've made it. I've made...

I've known that a relationship has been over for a very, very long time, and then the relationship being over period has lasted longer than the relationship not being over period. And I mean, like, it's just... Then my force is momentum and you just like, oh, yeah. Well, this is the new, this is the new re-regulated relationship, which is constant kind of unhappiness and disagreements and arguments and resentment from you, which destroys anything beautiful that you did once have with that person as well. Like, the way that it works with club nights, if we have a license

that goes until five in the morning, but the club nights waning at three, we close at three. Like, we don't let it fizzle out until five in the morning because if that happens, the few people that are left at five in the morning say, oh yeah, we do the other night. It was when we left, it was really shit and dead. Really, that's so interesting. You do it with club nights as well.

So it's a fluid end point. You just say, right, everyone, it's getting a bit rubberish. No, like, finish on a high. Well, I think you'll probably get a bit rubberish in 20 minutes. I'm going to preempt it. This age you do that well, like,

Juju Mufu does that with training, with like tumbling specific training, where he's like, when you start to feel good, stop the session. To be honest, I've had it with training of like, I hit PBPB, PB, and I'm like, this at Harmon's Stopper, and then I fought off a cliff.

Yeah. And it's like, if only I just thought, you know what? End on a high. Hmm. Yeah. People have started to leave the club, let's just... I think one of the reasons why, so I, I'm... Only just realised this recently, I'm a very empathetic person.

And I think that plays into the fact that I'm empathetic is also played on top of the fact that I don't like upsetting people. And I think one of the other reasons why I in the past struggled to break up with people was potentially a lack of self-worth that I was like, well, fucking hell, even though I might not be happy with this person, at least I've got someone and maybe not worthy of someone else or maybe I'm not going to get someone who's good or and then there's definitely there's so much momentum and familiarity and just level of comfort. Like all of these things, it's no surprise that finishing relationships are messy.

But especially once you're in a point where like the relationship maybe has other things associated with it like where you live or share possessions or family pets, whatever kids, like you're not just ending your relationship, you're completely changing your life. The cost of... Massive. Moving things around is massive. And actually that's one of the biggest determinants of a depressive episode, is a shift in your social, in your life, in your circumstance, not necessarily a positive or a negative one. So even if the ending of the relationship is classed as a positive shift in your life, because it's a big move, something like getting married, moving house, any of those things, if you have two or three of those and one go, you're likely to have depression,

goes up by quite a lot for that episode. So it's, you know, the, and you, I suppose your brain knows that that's a big knock. And so you end up holding it off and just thinking, let's just keep the status quo. Yeah, better, better the devil, you know? Yeah. So I mean, in terms of advice for if you need to, I mean, we haven't even got onto this before in a girl on Twitter has already ended a relationship which is fucking bravo. But the main thing I want people to take away from this section is like, if you know that it's not going anywhere and you're certain of it, then firmly and compassionately tell the person that you're with that it's over, sit them down,

don't do over text, like if you're're serious, if you've been together two months, then fucking do a snapshot them like it doesn't matter. I mean send a fucking story. Flair, that's a swip up. It's the story. Swipe up to end this relationship. I've got a message where you find out the swip up what it is. So link tree. But yeah, definitely, if you know that it's over, then firmly and compassionately tell the person that this can't go on anymore and they'll want the reason to know one all the rest of it. In that scenario, I think it's best again to tell them the truth. I'm on this kind of truth vibe at the moment and we will do an episode and why truth is a super power at some point in the future. But the least that you can do for someone

when you're about to end a relationship with them is give them the metrics by which they can improve themselves for the next relationship. I like that a lot. So when you're giving them that truth, it's because it's doing them a favour, but I think the temptation is either to not think through the delivery, and I've got a story to associated with that, or if you're so bitter about it that it ends up just coming across as like like a pressure cooker and you just unload onto them. When I was 17, 18, I broke up with a girl who I ended up in like a six to seven month relationship with just because I was basically too passive, just in general in my life. And so, the equivalent of someone like,

grabbing me and putting me in the sack and then it's like, right, that's it, doing a relationship. You're my boyfriend now for seven months. And then slowly I was like, hang on, on, I've had no choice in this. I'm actually not really interested in this girl. And yeah, so- This sounds like one of those cold, cold people that knock on the door of OAPs and before they know it, they've got a three hundred pounds of them and the direct debit. Yeah, I'd want my double glazing doughnut. I've signed up for three insurances. So the panels. So the panel, I had a Google home,

I don't know how to use it. So eventually I was like, right, I'm gonna have to just, in my much further along this, the autism spectrum, but I have now brain, I thought, what's the best way to, I know, okay. This sounds good, right? Took a recive just before she her a person, I said,

at the bus stop, at the bus stop. I'm not gonna try to make this story a far-time. Can you look straight down the pipe for me please, and do it? I'm saying. I'm gonna put it for food. I said Rosie, I'm not attracted to you, and I thought it's not clear enough at all.

And then I just left it and she kind of looked at me and started crying. Okay, bye. And then it's where I left. Because of that pulling aside, she missed her bus. She had to wait 40 minutes, and I walked away thinking, think I did that smoothly, thinking I let her down gently there, and then realized later on that absolutely not, sort of three years later, she was still very upset about it. And rightfully so, that was, that was a terrible delivery on all counts, but like,

okay, so the point was like there was a, exactly as you said, like during the whole six months, too passive, not respecting myself or my time or her time, especially her time, because she's the one who's putting herself on the line. She's the one making herself vulnerable in that situation, really, because it's up to me to be, to reject her or not. If someone pursues somebody, it's not a normal thing for that just to be like, oh, okay, I'm not doing it on a whim. Yeah. So exactly as you said, it's bizarrely, it's so compassionate to tell someone who likes you more than you like them that the relationship's over because you know that as the relationship

continues, all that you're suffering with is an increase in irritation and perhaps a waste of time. Whereas what that person is doing is entrenching themselves further into an investment in another person who doesn't care about them. And the longer that you allow that to go on, the more painful it's going to be when it finally ends. And another thing as well is that I think a lot of cheating probably occurs. It certainly has done for me in the past due to me not pulling a trigger on that. So it's like, if I decided to say that the relationship was over when I was prepared, when I knew it was over,

I would have cheated less than half the number of times that I have done. So much of it has occurred after then. So that, I mean, how many different ways do I want to be disingenuous to someone who's putting that, like giving me their time? The trouble is though, how do you know? Ooh, yeah, that was my back crackle. That's not a happy one. How do you know when you're in that situation? Because you arrive at this point,

like you're not sat there with your warm up out thinking, like, I'm gonna do this next. We'll take Russia to my house. This is, you know, you've got this sort of constant feeling, building up of, I'm not necessarily that happy, but maybe things will recover. I don't want them to be in a relationship with someone else. I'll just keep that about a process. Have we got a process? Try and deliver it and thought through it with hindsight,

doesn't it? But actually at the time, you just, ah, well, I mean, it's the same question as when do you stop being young and start being old? Yeah. Like, it's not, it's a gradual process and at one point you wake up in your old and at one point you wake up and you're unhappy. And the same thing occurs to that. Because there is also this potentially insidious situation where you are 20 and you're in a relationship with someone and because of these beliefs that you have where you think like I should be like my sex life should be like

this, my personal life should be like this, social life should be like that, you end the relationship and then seven, eight, ten relationships down the line, you're like shit, like should have kept on, should have kept on, should have kept to hold that on that relationship. So like, because of your ideals of what you think a relationship should be. So it's like, you're in this position with someone, and actually, they match a lot of what you would really like

about someone for a long term partner, but you can't see that at the time because you're searching for these ideals that you eventually realize when you're 40, you don't exist. For example, just from Instacouples that seem to know. Yeah. So that's doing the work on yourself before you try to make a relationship work. This is why introspective work and self-inquiry and all these sort of things, uncovering your

own cognitive biases are so important. If you don't know what you want, you can't have the fuck to expect the other person to know. But yeah, I unfortunately for most of the stuff that we've had so far, we've been able to give a semi-autistic framework to things that's like a set of guidelines, this area of breaking up with someone, the devils in the details, and the gray area of breaking up with someone, the devils and the details and the gray area of when is enough enough, it is a choice which can only be made by you and the other person. And I think that the only thing that you can do is once you've made the commitment stick to it, don't leave the other person with any lingering sense of hope or potential that it's

going to continue or that things may get better in the future potential that it's going to continue. That things may get better in the future or you just want to break or whatever it is. We all know that we all got a mate who's been on and off with girlfriend for the last ten years. And they're both cut up about it. I think I do have a framework. Is it a spreadsheet? It's not. I can make this spreadsheet. Brilliant.

Thank you. So it's a download. Subscription. So I think you first have to think. So it's exactly the same way as like how you would approach low-carb dieting. So like that. I can't wait to hear you compare how

to break up with someone to how to approach a low-carb diet. So it's exactly the same. So there are people who are fine never having a carbohydrate in their life. I'm not one of those people. So when I choose a diet approach and when I give my clients diet approach as one of the first questions is, like, can you honestly see yourself sticking to this in a year, five years, ten years? Because if it isn't sustainable at the moment, it won't, it's not going to get better as I'm going to get probably more difficult and encounterally things. So, like, if you take the standard relationship, probably taking to the end of the degree, like, you'll move in together, and that comes with lots of

complications, you might get married, that comes with complications, might have children, family, whatever, all those things are complexities and like a level up, like an extra thing to manage. So you have to right now think, can I imagine this getting to that point? Like, do I want this to get to that point? Is this person actually an enhancement? Do I like spending time with them? Because it definitely should be like a level up enhancement to your life Like you should feel like a better person. I think that's for me fundamental But then so if you if you think there are those things in place and you're unhappy I

would And I've never done this personally, but like having been in fail relationships and now in a successful one. I think Calate what it is that bothers you about the person. Sit down with them and say, these are the things that are getting to me. What about me? Do you not like honestly take their list and really, really work on it yourself? And if they aren't receptive to that conversation, then they aren't receptive to making it work anyway, more than likely.

So like if you're experiencing problems, chances are they are too, because I think every way, I'm, I was terrible at this when I was young, you're like, this relationship's not going very well, it's all what this person's doing. Like, this is annoying, this is annoying, and you're like, moan about it with your friends, but you never consider like, I'm like just as annoying if I'm all. Just as much of a bastard, you know. So like, we're much more blind to our own. Of course. Of course, you're automatic and ingrained. Yeah, so I think just having in the same way that, you know, I like in relationship to like a big business of, you know, like,

like the board of Facebook when there's like the Cambridge Analytica stuff. Like, do they sit in panic and just all cry and make really rash decisions and like, storm up? Does one of them go over to Snapchat and, you know, start trying to wait to Snapchat? I know, they sit down and think, like, let's solve this problem.

Like, we all want this to continue being Facebook. Let's solve this problem. And you've got to have the same approach. And if Mark Zuckerberg goes, there's always a wealthy rich man having to work at Snapchat, worked at Snapchat, then like Facebook's never going to work. Yeah, it's fucked. So I think that's a good way, that's a good way to look at it. And I, I wonder, I wonder how many people would be prepared to write down the list and then take a list. You have to write it down. Okay, okay, but to present it to them.

To present a list of the things that are causing problems. So if you aren't willing to do that, get out of the way. There is no point being in a relationship with that. If you're not prepared to do what you need to do to make it work, then pull the trigger. And that advice is the same for, like, I want to start my own business.

I want to get in the shape. Like all of those things have an associated level of work and it's not, do I want the outcome? Like, do I want a really nice relationship? I'm sure you do. Are you willing to do the work required to retain? I like the idea that you came up with about projecting forward. Like this person that I'm with now, where am I in six months, one year, five years, ten years, twenty years, and can I imagine it working with them like that? Because from there, if the answer is yes, so you can do something we find in your own web path. Yeah,

yeah. If the answer is no, you have two choices. Well, you have three, but the third one should. choices. We have three, but the third one's shade. The first choice is that you try and improve whatever the situation is. Do you go back to the rocket trajectory analysis? You and this person are on slightly different courses and you're beginning to diverge, as time continues, that divergence is going to get worse. You can try and course correct. That's one thing. You can pull the ejector seat and get out of it. Or the third one is to allow the courses to continue to diverge. And over time, the small issues will become bigger. And by the time you've reached the moon, you're a hundred thousand miles apart. So I would say in that situation, because that it's just like

a second-hand car market. Unfortunately. Yeah, you should go, Johnny. Holy Jesus. There's people that keep sending me messages saying, do you think that Winston Churchill was a fascist? And I don't know what they mean. You must have mentioned, I didn't mention Winston.

I think it's a reference to Jordan Peterson. I don't know. However, if you are one of those people who's sending me a message saying that Winston Churchill's a fascist, you are 54 minutes and 30 seconds into my YouTube watch time. So thank you very much for your money through YouTube monetization. It's true, actually. You are one of these people that goes on the internet and looks for things to be offended by and then gets outraged about it. I'm going to subscribe and watch more of it so that can be more offended. It's like, no one's forcing you to watch this. You're already worried worried. Bring it on buddy. I just want you to watch time. We have a comment on a video the day of a guy saying the video was boring. Actually, I mean, we had someone say, I was so upset by

this that I watched it again. Oh, I got you. It was my sleeping on the floor video. I had someone outraged saying, forget sleeping on the floor, it's putting meat into your body and animals, you know, animal products. Very, very then he did another comment, which said, I was so outraged by this, I have to watch it twice. Yeah, you like the mention of animal products and where is it? Where is all video time? Oh, yeah, you don't have it. I mean, the worst thing that could happen would be for you to share your opinion with the 13 people that follow you on Instagram.

To make yourself vulnerable to 30 people. I would be, I would be rude. The level beyond that is when people see an ad on Facebook and share it and then say something aggressively, like aggressive to their, like Johnny's just like 50 friends and like, tick, tick. Edron. Yeah.

So moving with saying, I had a point, I was gonna make. The rocket diverging. Oh yeah with saying I had a point I was gonna make the rocket diverging. Oh yeah, second I can't like it pull the jack to see because like and let unless of course you're getting something out of that relationship outside like maybe you don't want to be in a relationship with someone on the long term in which case fine. You should have several short term companionships. Like let's say to keep it to make it very crude let's say the person that one of the 50 people who

maybe would be perfect in for you is going to meet someone in three weeks time and you never meet them because you're in this relationship, you're kind of holding on to even though you know it's not working. And the same shape yourself off to the crazy thing is what we're talking about here, we keep coming back to it, the effect to the power of two with everything. Everything is squared. So it's like, you are in a relationship, which you're currently in a happy end. You could meet someone in three weeks' time that would be perfect for you, but you can't commit to them because you're in a relationship.

And the same is true of the other person as well. And if you don't want them to meet someone else, then that bit because of some kind of bitterness or resentment, then that's a toxic. That's just a situation that's just a fucking juvenile, like not only ruining your situation, but you're just being selfish to the person for the sake of trying to protect you. You can fuck up your life, you can happily fuck up your life, but messing up someone else's and this is, so for me, I'm perfectly happy, suffering the consequences of my own actions and my own mistakes within relationships which have been numerous in the past. But one of the things that I really struggled to deal with was the upset that I'd caused

my partner, that is, that sits with you for a long time. Mine is a tough pill. It's a tough pill. So I had to do an awful lot of reflection of mindfulness to get over some of the things that I've done. And it sounds like a fucking kill someone I haven't. But again, if you are someone who's empathetic, you're in this slightly vicious circle of not wanting

to hurt the other person because you don't want to hurt them so you don't pull the trigger on it. And then when you do end up doing it and hurting them, then you've got all of this extra baggage of the fact that you dragged it out. Oh, absolutely. And I've done that myself as well. And you know, after I was cheated on, I didn't, I mean, I wasn't consciously aware of it at the time that I wasn't able to fully be present with them. And I was in this kind of really big, rudging six months with them afterwards. And I thought, well, why have I done this? Like, why didn't I just, she would have been happier. Obviously, she wouldn't have been happier in the short term. She would have been very upset if I, because she'd feel

that, oh, I've done this enough. Of course, it's to happen. But after a month or so, you'd kind of bring a level up and I mean, that, I mean, that's another 10. Yeah, here's another, here's another absolute story. The second absolute trueism of breaking up with someone. I know that it feels like either your world or their world are going to collapse. If the other person's dependent on you, you're going to think, fuck, I'm going to destroy them, they're never going to get over it. Or if you feel like you are somehow dependent on them, but you're unhappy or the relationships are beautiful, you know it's not going anywhere, you feel like the

microcosm of time that you're in right now is all that there will ever be. And you can't imagine ever being happy outside of it. But we are built to adapt as human beings. We literally adapt for that's the only reason that we've been good. We're not as strong or as fast or as anything else. We're a bit cleverer, we can work together and we can adapt to changing situations. Like, you've seen that thing about the six months. If someone wins a lottery or becomes disabled, but paralyzed from the legs down or something, after six months their subjective ratings of happiness are roughly the same, absolutely insane.

I find that so hard to be breaking up thing. If everyone's just trying to be happy and an ending relationship is actually like a step in the right direction towards that ultimate goal because it was more than likely it was never gonna happen in that situation anyway. You were unhappy and you should view it as an opportunity. I know it doesn't. You were unhappy and you should view it as an opportunity. I know it doesn't feel like one, but you should view it as an opportunity.

So the, the final bit, which is probably the most difficult, we've left the big boss for last is how do you get over someone? Okay. So first thing is realize that no matter how tapped fully you do it, even if you're really really good about it, and you take them to the side at the bus stop and you deliver a perfectly crafted line about the fact that you're not attracted to them at all at all, you will still get you will still be the villain among their friends and among their family and there's no way around that. I think even if you were well liked and that's not necessarily personal, obviously the friends of the ex who are going to want to support them

and as a result demonize you in the stories and everything else. And I think just not to get involved and just to let them do that and thrash it out themselves. That's the presumption that you are the break-up protagonist. Break-up, yeah. Break-up, yeah. What if you are the broken? If you're the broken. Because this is this is the scenario I think that most people fear, which is that they care for someone and that one day they wake up and that this person says, I don't feel the same about you anymore, there's someone else this needs to finish. And because in some cases, oh, thank God. I mean, like, oh, I'm sorry. I mean, so here's, again, this is my kind of the main point that I think guides my particular

guides my particular emotions in these situations. And that pride in a relationship is such an overriding, overbearing visceral stomach-punching feeling. And it, for me, it's a loss of pride. Yeah. That you have this ego and it's so fucking fragile and that there's been situations that I've been in with girls where I haven't wanted them anymore. I don't want them, I'm not bothered about them. And I don't even mind if they're with someone else. Like I'm not attracted to them, it doesn't matter. That's all. But I still don't want them to say to me that they don't want me. It's like, I don't want you, but I don't want you to not want me. Like, you're the dirty penny that's at the bottom of my bag, but you still got fucking stay in my bag.

And it's such a juvenile, ridiculous way to feel. And I think that the flipping of that power, like whether or not you don't care or whether you do care, the fact that someone is, it's a comment on, you're not enough. It's, when someone splits up with you, you're not enough for me, you're not worthy of my time as much as someone else is. You're potentially not even as worthy of my time as no one is. Like, it's unsurprising that breakups hurt as much as badly as they do. Because it's taken, we take it personally when in reality it probably isn't. It's probably like, because when you break up with someone, you think it's because of the other person, but it's because of your feelings and thoughts and

it may even be like stuff with you rather than the stuff with the other person. Yeah, it's obviously the other person has a big impact, of course, but there are 100% there will be numerous relationships that are ended because someone says, but someone feels that they've got some stuff to work on. They'll like, look, like, fuck man, like I'm just not in the right place for it at the moment. And they may be being so virtuous as to say, I can't give you what you need.

I'm gonna allow you to be happy with someone else. And that really is a very compassionate thing to say, but fuck, like if you hear that get delivered to you, you're just you, it's dealing with difficult news, isn't it? It's how how do you take something that is shifting the rest of your life that you didn't want and try and make the best of it. And I think it's not that different to, although there there is an endpoint inside, I suppose. If you're told that you have a disease, cancer, or something that is...

This is immediately like, this is going to affect my life. I didn't want this to happen. You immediately catastrophize and think it's the worst thing possible. If all you can do is control what I'm going to do about it and how I perceive it, then trying to frame this as like this relationship has ended, but it's the start of something new. I can go find someone else. Yeah. Actions of like this, this is at the end of this chapter in my life. I'm going to make myself even better. I'm going to work on this aspect in my life, whatever. Like if there are two people and both people are in a relationship or they're dumped or they're cheated on,

and one person frames it really positively and just really doubles down on them and the rest of their life. And the other person spends six months greeting over the loss of their relationship. We're actually thinking of them. Both of them are in the same scenario. Like, neither of their actions have changed the outcome.

Yeah. But one person's, it's a good point. I'm really good. One person treats it as a crisis and the other opportunity. And you can convince the sturdism thing of like, that's all you can control, it's the alternate actions. So the breakups, the breakup. One of those ways to respond is the kind of instant grasping

for looking for someone else, often someone that's not really well suited, but they're just there, available. And that is the most, is the probably the biggest insults that you can give to that person because without them knowing, they're just a filler, like a spare. You're a substitute that's come off the bench because the goal is injured himself. So in terms of effective strategies for getting over people, I've got some fairly, I guess, staunch rules with regards to the way that I have done it in the past.

I think that trying to remain friends with your ex within, if it's been a significantly long relationship, I, one that's probably over a year, I think that you should aim to cut contact with them. That is everything. That is delete the number, delete the photos, remove them, block them on all social media, remove the phone number for six months. And I think that the reason for that is that the way you love them. I know someone that did that and they ended up receiving an email to their work account or something. That was like the final way.

The last bastion of getting through, man, there's this hilarious photo, Dean may be able to find it of a girlfriend who'd split up with a boyfriend at university and the only way that he'd been able to contact her had been by depositing money into a bank account with a payment reference. Really? That had a message in it. What should he put as the amount value, though? Well, he put like one P, but he did like 10. So it was like a word, a word, per one. But like point of creativity.

Yeah, I take that. I take that. That guy's going to do well. I'd take him, but yeah, no. Maybe not in relationships, but in some Silicon Valley. I still love 4P. Yes. Yes, he's presented with a problem,

wasn't he something like? How come? If he banks like, oh, minimum transfer is five pounds, you know, oh, yes, it's presented with a problem, wasn't you? Sand them like how come if your bank's like, oh minimum transfer is five pounds So yeah block block and delete everything You don't want to be reminded of them all of the stuff that they've got you give it back to them Give it to the charity shop put it in the bin put it in the attic do whatever you need to and then Facebook Archipelago It's a nightmare

And then I think you need to spend time with friends. Alain DeBot and I will put a link to how to get, a lot of this is derived from Alain DeBot and from the School of Life's Work, how to get over someone. The video is fantastic. And I think first and foremost, you need to accept the fact that the relationship is over. You need to draw a very, very strong line under it.

And once you've accepted the fact that it's over, you can then begin to look forward, as opposed to reminiscing and looking back. We need something, something to fill the time that our thoughts have to manifest. And if you can block off the fact that you're looking that way, you can start to look that way. You need to spend some time around friends, I think being on your own. There's some time on your own that maybe for reflection and such like, but like call on your friends.

If you message your friends, a lot of people feel like, I've got no one to turn to. I don't have any friends this and that and you're there. Like if there's ever been times where I've been feeling like down or whatever and I've messaged you guys and be like, man, having a little bit of a down day within half an hour, like I've got a response. It's like if you call for help,

and we're terrible with testing. You're shite, wait. Like, let's say you get an email, the subject line urgent, like you'll open the email, wouldn't you? Yeah, it doesn't matter what's happening. If fire's happening, we're still open the email. Open the email?

Yeah, exactly, urgent, there is a fire in your, but yeah, fucking no! Yes, but this is an urgent email. That's why I'm checking my emails. I'm planning out. So yeah, like, spend some time with your friends, I think. Like, go and do something which distracts you from the situation. You only have so much cognitive capacity.

Like, if you have to go and play fucking darts or go crazy golf or go to the cinema or something, there will be brief periods where you're not thinking about the breakup. There has to be. Like as the person that the counter says, oh, if you've got £10.50, like as you're counting the £10.50, I know this sounds very granular, but in some of these situations. Oh, I thought we were at Teddy Bear, there was £10.50. The cashew, his mum was called that. Yeah, I get that. But, you know, the small periods, little oasis of cognitive break from what you have been

feeling and what you're now feeling. Rather than sat in the house, just letting it completely all by well. It'll be the same list of things. All by well. The same list of things that make you forget to check your emails or check your phone. Yeah. Like go do those, like go drive a Lamborghini round a track. Yeah, like I guarantee you'll not be thinking about Just cracking terrified. Yeah exactly like trying to not spin a hundred grand car round a corner You're thinking about just that. Yeah, and I think as well I'll end a bottom. It's got this thing

I'm not too sure jumping the North Sea Yeah, and I think as well, Alain DeBotten has got this thing. I'm not too sure. You're jumping the North Sea. Oh, God. Yeah. What if you drown? Yeah. Actually, we cannot say to people who've just been in a double breaker. You can't jump in the North Sea. Scrap that.

Do you not jump in the North Sea? A cold shower. Have a cold shower. Yeah. Got a use of this house. And you can see use of. You can't have warm showers in here, Tows. I think hot toilet. Hot toilet.

I've got hot toilet. Someone pl. I think hot toilet. Hot toilet. I've got hot toilet. Someone plumboying hot water into the toilet. Chris uses a kettle for a toilet. I'm just sitting on a kettle. Literally. So yeah, I think... Alinda Buttons got this idea where he says that you should bore yourself.

But one of the opportunities is to bore yourself back into doing things. So he'll allow... He says, allow yourself as many nights as you want that you cry into a tub of ice cream and watch as many romantic comedy with your friend until you're literally like, I am fucking sick of myself. And he like, okay, I'll motivate myself out of that. I think personally for me, I'm a lot more idiosyncratic than that. So for me, what I would try and do is instantiate some things that I know are good for me Like I still think that I allow myself to Allow the thought loops to bore themselves out of out of existence and like I have been in this particular loop

5,000 times before I do not need to replay it again I'm less because there's a lot of psychosocial factors on crying into a tub of ice cream while watching a dark scream. I'm not sure how I feel about that advice, because you see people, especially if you've got a slightly anacastic personality and they'll just absolutely die. It's like slightly obsessional personality and they'll be. Anacastic. Yeah, so like if they're just like they start getting some enjoyment from doing the the ice cream and watch it and then that becomes

That's the life now and then yeah, you know, they say like You break a habit once and that's a mistake break a habit twice and that's a new habit You've created something new and suddenly you're just going that I hate that's okay. I know It's such a like oh, I did a podcast earlier on today where I talked about how it, after a while of instantiating daily routines and habits, it's a lot, and this is both good and bad, unfortunately, after a while, it's a lot easier to do them than to not do them, and that works on both sides. Like for me to not meditate and not journal now, I'd feel like I was walking with one she won and one she was for the rest of the day.

Horrible. Yeah, I mean, I'm looking. Yeah. But the fact that it's for the rest of the day, it's the real stinker. Yeah, man. Yeah, it's fuck, then you miss your morning routine and before you know it, it's three months later and you forgot to rest that morning. Yeah. Always does, I still feel off for most of the day, if I've not meditated, I haven't today. And like, does the constant feeling of the day? if I've not meditated, I haven't today. And like, there's a constant feeling. You walked it back through the door earlier. Yeah, just one shot. Yeah, one shot. Terrible.

There's advice in wave this purely, man, that currently you're reading. Thanks to you too. Oh, great. You're reading it as well. Yeah. I thought I was supposed to book. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Great book.

David Data. He talks about, like, when you're in pain or when you're experiencing something to start with your shoulders back and just feel it and really focus on just that. So there is an argument to say that it's really painful, it's really shit, but just like... Take it head on. Yeah, it's a set with it. Here's his something to meditate on like your life is not lived from the comfort of your couch. Like when you look back on your life in 60, 70 years time, hopefully, you you don't want to think that you didn't have any experiences and you're watching more Netflix. Yeah, like another thing to consider is that

whatever you're feeling right now, it could be 10 out of 10 pain globally across your entire body and you could have lost everything. But in six months' time, that will just be a memory. Like, nothing, nothing is going to last forever and that's one of the few things that you know. So you're like, right, okay, I'm feeling something now.

I recently did a podcast, an amazing podcast with Alex Hutchinson, who wrote a book called Injure. And in this, what he does is he discusses the different contributing factors to what makes an endurance athlete successful. And what he says is that very, very good endurance athletes are able to mindfully distinguish between the different elements of discomfort within the body. So it's not just overweigh, it's not

pain and discomfort, it's, he talks about it like a glass of wine. So he says, well, there's an undertone of lactic burn. I can, I'm getting some notes of breathlessness and high heart rate. There's a scent of heat and discomfort in my head. There's a ringing in my ear. There's a blindness on the side of my eyes. And as opposed to seeing the emotions or feeling the emotions as a single, nebulous, insurmountable problem, what you actually feel them for are their component parts. And I think that's what you're talking about there. It's sitting with the discomfort.

It's like, what am I feeling? Okay, so I've got the stomach, I can feel the heat rising in my chest. Like break it down and you can break open what it is. Something that sensations in Sam Harris' lessons talks about, we all love this feeling that at some point that pain or sensation or something is absolutely unbearable. I'll not be able to continue.

But logically, right now, a moment ago, and two moments ago, three months ago, you were just experiencing that. And it was fine. So there's nothing different about it. It's about it. So go and do what's called a widowmaker, which is a 20 reps on back squat with your 10 rat max. And that's the only time I could really distinctly remember that happened every time this decoupling from like, I am in this experience, but there's a moment of like,

you're always just watching yourself doing it. That sounds impossible, by the way. You keep it on your back until you've done 10, then you take three or five deep breaths, and you don't know the redness. And it is possible. So the equivalent that Alex used in the podcast was, I think, it's five by 500 meters sprint. So you go as hard as you can, you run for, you run five, five hundred meters,

you have them one minute rest. You run again. And then once you've finished, you've done your fifth rep and you're on the floor dying and panting You'll be in a mega lactate threshold in that that particular workout as well your coach comes over and says you need to do one more Mm-hmm, and you like I can't I couldn't and you've given it everything on that fifth round You've given it absolutely everything that you've got Mm-hmm, but if you need to get up and you need to go again You find that you can go again and you could go again after that I always find it quite comforting when I'm training that like I don't need like not being able to do it

I don't need to worry about that like my body will take care of that like if the 20 reps squats like eventually I'll just collapse So I don't like that's taken care of. All I need to do is relax. It's, you know, eventually I'll just collapse with a hundred nits. You know, because there's almost this like, I decide when I give up. So you don't, you don't have to. Your body will take care of it.

Yeah, man, you're going to be fascinated by the podcast that I did with Alex. It's unbelievable. And the, the main thing I'm not going to give too much for spoiler away, but the key to everything he says in endurance and in mentality within sport is our PE. Is it? Everything is rate of perceived exertion, everything.

It's quite, it's different with things that you're actively doing to yourself, I suppose, because with grief, with breakups, and his grief, it's happening to you. But this sense of, so Shenzhen Young says, suffering equals pain times resistance. And- So that like the holding onto this one is for all thing? Probably, yeah. So like the amount of resisting it happening to you,

I suppose like you're holding onto something there, but if you're something happening to you, the more you're like, Ah, no, no, no. If you actually just, yeah, as you said, dial down on what are the specific sensations that I'm feeling, you realize that actually there are not smaller, they're just like little atoms and it's, it's, you're just seeing this big mass that you're assuming is huge.

You realize that they're just like bubbles and they're vacuous inside. And Sam Harris as well talks about like the sensation in his knee while meditating for a long time and how it becomes the searing pain. But then once you kind of, the zone's in on it, it's like, actually, I can't distinguish if it's ecstasy or pain. It's just an intense sensation. And I don't think that we are telling people who are heartbroken, but they need to sit with the discomfort. You absolutely do. It is the truth. It's a learning experience. I mean, what come out in some ways? So he's a really nice thing to do.

He's a really nice thing to think about. A nice thing to think about if you are going through a break up or have done or are going to, like, what better of a way to take ownership of something painful than to use it for growth? Do you know what I mean? Like, this is a situation which would crush a lot of people maven, crush me, it feels that there's discomfort and somehow on the other side of this, I've drawn a profit or a positive. I mean, fuck. Like, there you go. That's how it complete. That is how to complete getting over someone. So, gentlemen, thank you very much.

Thank you very much for your time. We will be back anytime. We will be back where I know we're about to do another one, but no one knows. We will be back with relationships 104, which is the long awaited Instagram fun. Is it? Oh, thank goodness.

Ready by cells. For the Instagram fun. He's gone big, good. Tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, please do not forget to press subscribe. If you've enjoyed the episode, share it with a friend. It would make us very, very happy indeed. Links to some of the further readings, some of the other articles that we've mentioned will be in the show notes below. Press the

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