Modern Wisdom - #1000 - Matthew McConaughey - The Art of Living a Courageous Life

Episode Date: September 29, 2025

Matthew McConaughey is an Academy Award-winning actor, producer and an author. Expect to learn why Matthew says life often “rhymes”, why it’s okay if you do everything right and still not get the result you want, how Matthew views the role courage plays in his life, how to learn to deal with failure, the difference between a nice guy and a good man, the most important principle Matthew refuses to compromise on, the appropriate balance of running toward a life you want vs. away from one that you fear, how to balance self-confidence with humility, the difference between “being” and “acting”, what it means to be more impressed with the wow instead of the how, rumors on Matthew’s return to the True Detective franchise, and much more… Sponsors: See discounts for all the products I use and recommend: https://chriswillx.com/deals Get 5 Free Travel Packs, Free Liquid Vitamin D, and more from AG1 at https://ag1.info/modernwisdom Get a Free Sample Pack of LMNT’s most popular flavours with your first purchase at https://drinklmnt.com/modernwisdom Get $100 off the best bloodwork analysis in America at https://functionhealth.com/modernwisdom Get 35% off your first subscription on the best supplements from Momentous at https://livemomentous.com/modernwisdom Timestamps: (0:00) What It Means When Life “Rhymes” (9:34) How Forgiving Betrayal Can Free You (20:32) Hope, Faith, and How To Become Your Own Hero (25:47) This Approach to Success is Everything (31:57) The Mindset That Will Change Your Outlook on Life (41:11) How To Find Significance in the Noise (53:30) The Power of Courage and Conviction (01:00:31) How To Find Balance Between Life and Work (01:10:31) The Difference Between a Nice Guy and a Good Man (01:17:17) Principles Matthew Refuses To Compromise On (01:29:15) Why We Need to Stop Cancelling Men (01:34:31) Why Living Better Outweighs Living Longer (01:40:55) How to Build Confidence (01:47:10) How to Stop Worrying & Trust the Process (01:52:16) On the Road with Matthew Extra Stuff: Get my free reading list of 100 books to read before you die: https://chriswillx.com/books Try my productivity energy drink Neutonic: https://neutonic.com/modernwisdom Episodes You Might Enjoy: #577 - David Goggins - This Is How To Master Your Life: https://tinyurl.com/43hv6y59 #712 - Dr Jordan Peterson - How To Destroy Your Negative Beliefs: https://tinyurl.com/2rtz7avf #700 - Dr Andrew Huberman - The Secret Tools To Hack Your Brain: https://tinyurl.com/3ccn5vkp - Get In Touch: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chriswillx Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/chriswillx YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/modernwisdompodcast Email: https://chriswillx.com/contact - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

So I mentioned to you that this is episode 1,000. Yeah. It's been seven and a half years. We just crossed a billion views the other day as well. Congrats, man. And as a little surprise to you, we wanted to take you back to an environment that you probably know at least a little bit well. Ah, Cooper's Place, Alberta, Canada, where we shot it. We planted, production planted all those cornfields.

to there's as far as you i could see and this is the road cooper drives up on the way out and that's that hans emmer countdown 10 nine eight leaving children to follow a dream lift off i love how quick that is that transition from him leaving to going i think that's so cool yeah i think it was you know Chris's version of tying the human drama of what would you do of father leaving children to go do what they know they were meant to do and leave this earth and then from there on time changes and yeah at the end of this shoot when it was wrapped and it was clear we had no more shots no more scenes on this location my family and I were in my airstream on the set It's where we lived.

We got, at the edge of base camp, we turned our airstream to face out to the mountains. And right behind us is your medical and your food, whatever you need from production. But we stayed extra few days and just hiked it and stuff. And one of the things that was fun is I let my son, probably, I don't know what I was, seven, eight at the time. We got in my truck and I let him drive through these cornfields, fast as he wanted just when he was going 360 and all around

because I had checked I was like they go no it's for as far as you can see it's just like the salt flats hit it and I've got some video

of that and some pictures it was top yeah unreal why do you say life rhymes I think Mark Twain said that first didn't he

a version of that history rhymes um seems for as much as We go, our generation's so different than the last one. And there's never been anything like this. The ebbs and the flows, the debits and the assets.

And for every new technology and old, there's a debit in an old culture. And it seems like it always is right there somewhat equalized and balanced. And there's a rhyme in that, that sort of ecclesiastical you know there's a time for everything and for every thing you reap that will you sow there's a time to kill there's a time to live there's a time to plant there's a time to gather it's a time to spread it's very emersonian too you know and uh for every new technology we lose an old culture you know and these these things that we think are contradictory have

heaven and hell, hate and love that we think are like this. An imbalance for the truth of them, I think, is in that third eye where they overlap, and they all do overlap. They all sort of balance themselves out, and I don't know how much new under the sun we actually are doing. I think we call it different names. I think we change the labels. I think you get some things that are extra strength and some things that are unleaded. But I think they all pretty much balance out, and there's rhyme and balance. What's your perspective on coincidence in life, serendipity?

Yeah, man. Well, first time I have it is deja vu, and you have it twice. I call it voodajia. Let's flip that thing around, upside and backwards, both sides of the coin. Look, in some ways, it's the beginning of an argument for God, a divine plan, fate, karma. In other ways, I don't mean, that's fun to start doing that math to try and prove our way there. But it also feels like those are the swing backs. Oh, I've been here before.

Ah, I was here before. This life doesn't have the period at the end of it. I mean, who knows how many, you know, many lives, many masters, I don't know if that's true. It sure makes it sure feels like it is sometimes. That's a rhyme. That's a real nice, a real time when life does rhyme. And you look and you look for the math and you look for the science to add it up. And it ain't there. And that way I do think science is the practical pursuit of God, which will never prove. And that's the point. So there you have belief and faith for that, which can't be proven. But the pursuit of that is also why I think God loves an atheist scientist. It's like, yes, keep it up. Pursuit of that is why I think in my agnostic years where I said self-reliance, it's on me, man. Forget fate, I'm not relying on God.

I ain't praying for nothing. It's on me, responsibility, self-reliance. I believe that when I came back to my faith, that I heard God applauding, thank you for having your hands on the wheel. Thank you for taking the self-reliance and saying it is on you. Because you know what? I need that.

What's that? Wonderful idea that God doesn't want to do everything. Some of it's up to you. Amen. And though free will and faith and self-reliance and faith, they can seem contradictory, but I don't, I don't, I think they do rhyme. And you need both. And we, yes, there's a time for, inshela, God willing, there's a time for, well, if it's supposed to be, it will be.

yeah usually right after it happens you know yeah uh i think george janker says every man knows god when he's at his lowest that there are reliable times when people turn toward faith and how many people turn at the end of their life and i wonder you know if there is a god is that in the same way that you know catholicism could say sin all week but if you read if you mean it and you ask for forgiveness on Sunday, you're washed clean. Well, I see some people use that as a crutch and go right back to repeat offending. I've got appointment here of going to forgive me father for I know what I do. And I'm curious like, is that okay? To just... What's that mean? Meaning there's the forgive me father for I know not what I do. And I'm writing

about, well, forgive me, father. There's times I know exactly what I'm doing and I do it anyway. That was an error of volition, not accident. A choice I made. Now, if I'm going to keep making that choice and be a repeat offender. I'm not ready to go, yeah, but if I ask for forgiveness on Sunday, I'm all clean. We can do it all over again. I'm not going, no, no, no, hang on. Buck's got to stop here, man. If you're a repeat offender, God's going, yeah, no, you're not going to sit there and Tom Foolery with me here, bud.

And I don't want to do that with himself, just as if I steal from you and I come to you and I go, I'm sorry. That was, I was, I don't know where I was, I was at a horrible choice, I'm sorry. I'm asking for your forgiveness. If you forgive me, because you take my sincere want, reconciliation, the first thing on the docket between us should be me starting to do anything

and everything I can not to have to come to you and say, I'm sorry for the same damn thing again. If I do it once and twice, I'm a repeat offender and I stole from you three times, I think, and I'm hoping you'll still forgive me, but I wouldn't trust me, you know? Yeah, I think that's something that we forget sometimes

Is that once you do the forgiving, which let's go let's let's the spite move out of us so we don't get sick with that The first thing responsibility is on the one who's asking for forgiveness to do everything they can not to have to come to after forgiveness or say I'm sorry again And I think we forget that that's that's on that's that's the debit that's that's what's owed by the offender first You gave the grace to say, I forgive you. So he called, that doesn't mean it's even money. That means I got work to do to make sure I'm not coming back to ask for it again. As opposed to there is no amount of work that you can do that will ever get you back to even keel. It's someone saying, the ledger is still imbalanced, but the doors open to the bank.

The doors, and it's on me to go. Come and repay. Look, I wish rehabilitation like the jail system. I wish it was such that once someone's out, they're like, you and me going to apply for a job. They're not. Scarletters on them. Well, that means our system of rehabilitation isn't working.

Because if it works, you should get out. I paid my penance. Now it's even money. Yeah. Yeah. How do you think about forgiving betrayal? I... I think of when I've been betrayed.

When it's clearly betrayal, I know it's betrayal, and that person can look and go, yeah, that's what I did. I've been asked for forgiveness for that before, and I've been also seeing people go, yeah, that's what I did. And they're not asking for forgiveness. They're going, yeah, that's what I did. First response is, well, fuck you. A second one is, if that's on my mind, if that's keeping me up at night, that

S-O-B or whatever that is, I got to flush that. I got to wonder why is that on my mind. I got to forgive that deed, that person for that deed. And again, not necessarily trust him, but do my best to forgive them. And that can take me a while. And I think it takes me the most time to forgive the betrayal is, me when and if I betray myself forgiving myself because you know it is man we forgive too quickly we dust resilient we hop up and dust herself off and go forgive you let's do it again we do

become repeat offenders because we didn't take the time to put ourselves or feel the guilt of the wrongdoing and pay a little penance to look at and go i don't want to feel this again i don't want to do that action again to make myself feel this way. I don't, it doesn't, it doesn't feel like me. I don't want to, I don't want that person to have that sadness or anger with me again or the world to have that sadness and anger from this, I don't want to feel that again. And that takes some pause to then go, now I forgive myself. Let's carry on and trust and be ready to do the work to say, we're not going to, we're not

going to just let that slide anymore. It's not going to be a way to sneak that one in. I'm going to hold myself to a high ascended. Yeah. because it didn't pay off, because the repercussions sucked. There is a unique sort of circle of hell that is reserved for when you keep on making the same mistake over and over again, that you've done it, you've had to pay the penance, say that you're sorry, and then arrive straight back at the same place. Yeah. I think there's a hell in the mirror.

then I think it can become a living hell. Like I kept that poem in their daymairs. I love that one. I do too. You know, nightmares suck, but at least you wake up. And they're over. It's the ones that stick with you when you wake up and go through your day that are right there.

Those are the ones. That's the living hell. Yeah. I think that's what you're talking about. And you repeat offend enough. Word gets out. circles gets out you people doubt you on your approach you're like yeah but don't do this for this i mean all of a sudden you're going place and you got to look over your shoulder

you got to see who's there that it didn't pay back who do i owe what bridge did i burn what person did i betray to get where i am that's a life that's a living hell well forget that in the modern world you can move from city to city uh at least you can in some regard leave your reputation behind This was one of the issues of the West, right? This was how the snake oil salesmen were able to keep going because they would bounce from town to town. However, if you lose your reputation with yourself, if you no longer trust you, I don't keep my own word.

I know that I'm not a trustworthy person. I keep making promises to myself and to other people and I keep on breaking them. I keep doing something that hurts other people or the same person. They don't trust me anymore. And, oh, I don't trust me anymore. And you're 100% right. It all comes back to being a very personal act.

And what some people would say, oh, that person's acting selfishly. No, they're actually being incredibly unselfish, I think, because they're pinning themselves in a living hell and having to look in the mirror and going, I don't trust you. I don't respect you. Now, how long? And I know some people that can sleep quite well with that existence. I don't know how long they can do it. Sounded bound to be some come up and so world's got to get small. They got to get dizzy somewhere.

But, you know, where's that come from? Where's that come from for an agnostic, an atheist? Where's that come from from someone in power that could easily damage somebody, but chooses not to be cruel and they could so easily? Why not? What is that moral compass of some sort of fairness or integrity that keeps someone having that kind of character even though they may not believe

in God or religion that's why I'm saying this is it about belief yeah the book's about belief that's what I'm peddling here I need more of it I personally believe in God but the whole thing is not for people that just believe in God believe in trying to pursue your better self transcend itself if you believe in the future you believe in your kids believe in the past something

don't know what that is ask yourself what you die for start there everyone kind of believes in something there's an argument that even nihilists to believe and nothing nothing's even something you know um i don't know how you double down on nothing but double nothing yeah there's an opposite end to this scale as well that continuing to sort of betray yourself uh sometimes you can do everything right and still not get the result that you wanted and that seems like a really tough pill to swallow for people I think that's why people become uncomfortable

with fully filling their emotions. Yeah. So where do you go? What do you think when I really, I gave it my all that I bared myself and I still got kicked in the nuts? Yeah. Not only did I feel like I deserve it. I feel like I earned it and I still didn't get it.

Wait a minute, but you said that's the playbook and I followed the playbook. You said these were the rules and the regulations. I followed it. it. And I was good at it. I still didn't get it. Well, I suppose that's why we have entrepreneurs and criminals. I mean, I have to, I think I naturally come back and look, I hustle. I'm a hustler. I'm not puritanical. I'm not trying to preach an absolute straight and narrow way to go.

things I've bullshitted my way into things and faked my way into making things. Pulled off stunts. But I've never been able to really live with by hook or by crook. I'll get it how I can get it. I'll lie cheat and steal to get it.

I got the prize and I'm still okay. I got it. My own shadow chases me down in the middle of the night. And those nightmares do, become my own day mares. Now, the getting going for it and not getting it, which we see a lot. Now, right now, I think we're living in times. One of the indirect examples we'll see it from leadership is for who's got the power? The winner. Okay. So what are the ethics? Well, whatever the winner does. Yeah, but the winner, like, impillaged and lying and cheat and told him get the prize.

But he won. Wait a minute. You move the the goalpost while I had that the ball was in the air man is that okay they won and to I'm not buying to say I'm not ready to purchase that okay that's just how it is um and I'm in no way foolish enough to think that everybody out there is on their best behavior no me neither uh but I'm not ready for just hey however you can pull it off and however many people you crumble along the way There ain't no rules, regulations. Oh, and actually, if you do follow the rules, you're a sucker. Fuck you.

What's the game for, then? We're going to get dizzy on that. That's going to self-implode. That's going to be, that's not the Wild Wild West. That's more than that. That's upside down and backwards and the foot's on the other shoe. That's not going to last. That doesn't have any long-term ROI for us personally or collectively as humanity, I don't think.

So we've got to police that. ourselves you know and i think that's my hunch is that we start with that everyone no matter how much they're thinking globally or collectively it all starts with something very very personal and that that's where a revolution will could begin a revolution of evolution would begin that each person goes i've got to go one step further as i talk about to salvage my character or one step further before i pull the parachute quit i think that would that's how to really inch forward and evolve in a way. Before we continue, you are probably not eating

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Modern wisdom. let's say someone has been kicked in the nuts a good bit by life how do you advise them to sort of become the hero of their own story again man that's a tough one I got a I'm going to pull in here called heaven or not and try and find it and uh see if this kind of half answers that question and uh you know I don't have that

answer a lot of times these uh here it is heaven or not you know tomorrow is not today's measurement when the misery is bad enough right these people don't have to the suffering consideration it's a privilege man i'm trying to put food on the table right now i'm paying my rent tonight you want to talk to me about investing in my future oh you and i say and that's part of what faith and religion are for to help those in misery hang on to a hope that will most likely not be served them in this life to sell them belief and faith that they will be served in the next and what if there is nothing there man what if there's nothing to hope for what if there's no next i don't know but either way in misery here or without a heaven there not having any hope or faith in anything

is a certain way to remain where you are forever but if you can find something that you can keep something that no matter how small to look forward to and continually have faith in and chase, well, then your life here's going to be better now. Heaven or not. That's a great question. You know, I sit here with a life where I have the luxury to project, to ask myself and ask others. No, make a sacrifice today. Sacrifice a plastic ring today for a gold crown tomorrow.

sacrifice something today for more freedom tomorrow sacrifice something today for a possible healthier future for your kids i understand that's a luxurious position i'm not going to apologize it i'm in i'm in it but i understand to someone in misery they're going good for you man i'm trying to feed the family tonight i'm not thinking past that i can't think past that what he asked him to do thing I would say and understand is well if you don't have the hope or believe in something you're going to end up you're definitely going to remain where you are and if you have hope and faith in something

I'm not saying it's 100% get out of jail you're going to absolutely get out but you got the best chance to hmm peace is a gift of God and grace to reach it me we must rage yep yeah I'm going to close my show that I'm doing when I'm on this little bit with the tour with that.

Because, hey man, kumbaya. Oh, I get it. I don't think that's how peace is coming. I think that's a great place to hope for,

but to get there or closer to there is going to take punk rock. rage it's going to take getting wild it's not going to be necessarily logical it's not going to be tamed it's not going to be whispered i don't think it's going to take nothing no emotion gets more shit done than rage for good or for bad seems like rage really moves the needle you know what i mean and i think that that emotion and that approach shouldn't be throw out when you're talking about a pursuit of peace or contentment.

I mean, it takes sweat equity. It would take blood being drawn. I don't believe that we are as evolved enough species to just behave as we intellectually can agree we should be. I don't see it happening. You can all agree with it. In an open forum, enough of us go back on our own. and make what we're doing, you know? It's a good idea.

But boy, when we're cornered and what we got's being possibly trespassed on, be very primal. Some lines need to be drawn. I believe so. I wonder whether we overpraise balance when greatness might demand imbalance. Mm-hmm.

That's an industry one. That's a fun one, man. Do we overpraise balance? Yeah, I think my first reaction would be we do overpraise balance a bit. It's a great pursuit. I think a better pursuit is try and find the rhyme in the imbalance. Well, let me give you what I think is the justification for why balance gets overpraised. most of the people who have a platform which is sufficiently big with enough credibility for others to listen on mass

have been through the rage and now burst out the top to reach exit velocity and what that means is they're in a very different position now to what they were at the beginning and the summary is model the rise

not the result I like that Model the rise, not the result, because the result is where they're at now. Do not ask Warren Buffett about how long he spends reading the newspaper and pouring over all books. That guy was a hustler. He was a hustler when he was young. What did you do when you were at the stage that I am at? Not what do you do now.

Because I want to get to where you are. That means I don't do what you do now. I do what you did to get there. Model the rise, not the result. Love that. The approach. Okay. I'm all over.

I'm all for that, and especially the way you just explained it. And let's just talk about overall. And I haven't thought of it when thinking about aspirations with people and things. But the result, which we know there isn't really one, and we cannot imitate someone else's exact result. We're going to have our own way to get there. The approach is all. I think that's the best our life can get is one,

constant approach, or with many different approaches, but knowing we never, there is no result. That's when I always say, well, the metaphor, life's a verb. But that's, that's really fun to go, no, no, no, don't study the result. What was the person doing when they got there? And everybody who's achieved something great was some sort of outlaw. Some sort of hustler. Out of balance. Out of balance, out of whack, dark times. Woo. Astream. Still wakes up in the middle of the night and glad they went a mouth guard because they'd have chipped all their teeth with that fucking nightmare they were having about those things they did back then I'm one of those well another question would be what virtue is their imbalance if there was no such thing as

imbalance to fight against yeah oh I just reached equanimity right you know I walked out onto this tight rope yeah exactly and I don't know it just I didn't wobble once well now we're going into I have that I got that thing in there and say what's better Take eight, take eight big risk in life, sin once, miss the mark once, but get seven, achieve seven out of eight. Or take a hundred risk and achieve eight of them. My hunch is that there's a God, he's saying, go for the hundred and get eight rather than eight and get seven. If you're not taking enough risk to sin or miss the mark, which is what sin means, to fail. What are you doing that?

Don't come back with even money. To come back with a safe bet. Which that can become a sort of recessive. Peace and amnesty, no. It's almost a, I don't think it's what the mystics meant when they were like, be disattached. I think it mean, go embrace, but for highs and lows and pains and pleasures, understand that those outward things are not the things to be attached to for your own identity.

It's got to be inward first, enjoy those, partake, but don't become attached to those for your measure. There's an idea from Isaiah Berlin called the Inner Citadel. He says, when the world denies us that which we want, we retreat into ourselves in a kind of spiritual depth into a sort of inner citadel. Basically, if you can't get what you want, you teach yourself to want what you can get. Okay. So, for instance, you damage your leg in a battle and you can try to fix the leg, in which case you're fine, or if you fail, you chop your leg off and announce that the desire for legs is misguided and must be subdued, right? This is a retreat in spiritual depth. This is asceticism on steroids.

By not trying to play the game, there is no risk of failure. and I think that the not making any bets um I see this a lot I've been very obsessed with emotions since we last spoke a year ago I've been very obsessed with emotions with feeling feelings are trying to and I get the sense that feelings are one of these strange bets emotions investing ourselves not holding a bit back not putting one foot out like putting it on the line opening up yeah exposing ourselves and that feels like a retreat in kind, but one that's plausibly deniable. When we just have one foot out, I didn't fully commit myself to this project, this relationship, this friendship, this self-transformation. I kept one foot back, well, you know, I might not be able to do that right now because I've got this challenge, this restriction from before, this relationship,

like I'm going to hold a bit back, I'm going to keep a bit for me. This is my bit. And it means that if failure comes along, it doesn't hurt as much. But it also means that success is less likely. And if success comes along, you know that you didn't really earn it. You didn't really win it because you played the game. And that's fine in some areas of pursuit and at some stages of life. Early in life, I don't think you can be left as culpable. You're 12 years old. You don't know what you're doing. In business, the outcome really is what matters. That is what you're optimizing for. Some people business is a personal transformation vehicle masquerading as a wealth-making pursuit. But for the most part, you're there to do the business. Yeah. But in relationships, in friendships, in the way that you show up for yourself, in your personal transformation, in your relationship to whatever you believe in, I don't think that we should be having our inner sitter. I'll really play any part.

Right. Hard to pull off. But I believe it's similar to what I'd write up and talk about an owner's mentality versus a renter's mentality. So many people have the renters mentality. relationships, businesses, transactional. Yeah, well, flip it, get it, flip it. And they never give the relationship the chance to possibly be a friendship, to possibly be a long-term relationship, to possibly be a great mate, great partner.

They never give the real estate, the house, a chance to actually maybe become a home. And that's, I think it's, if the words better, that to go in with an owner's mentality. Meaning, have you ever hired someone that you were like, probably just need you for a few months? You have? Okay, you have.

See, I have only hired or people that I was like, I'm hoping this is going to be a lifer. I'm hoping you're going to provide what I need and you're going to get for me what you need that this could work out forever. Fairly any of them do. I've got a couple. A few.

But that's how you entered the relationship. But one I wouldn't have known or I wouldn't have got out of them and they wouldn't have got out of me as much if we wouldn't have gone into it with an owner's mentality. People can tell. This is transactional or transient.

Let me ask you this though. Isn't, all right, basically, every, I know it's transactional and transformational. Those seem to be the two. It's transactional. Every relationship's transactional. But not only transactional. Some transactional relations can become transformational, but I mean, we're all using each other in a way that I can get this from you.

You give this to me. My wife gives this to me. I give this to her, which a transformational relationship, but we're always transacting. So I don't have the problem with the transaction. I have the whole back when it's like, oh, it's merely for transaction. Oh, it's merely for use. And how many people don't even try to hide that anymore? Or they're just straight up going like, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, what are you talking about.

Yeah. I mean, I see it in, in, in, in, in, in, in, uh, Palo Alto, man, they raise all kinds of, the startups are everywhere and everyone invest. And you flipping it, falls down and no, and they don't even blink. Yeah. And you work for somebody and you become their CEO and they fire you and da da da da da da and da and da. And they hammer you, and see it in politics and they hammer your name and drag you through the mud and I like, dude, that's just, that's how it's how it's how it's doing. Hey, Bob, how you doing? That's the guy.

That's fine. It's just business. It's just politics. I'm like, hang on a minute. So that was that transaction, that does that's water off the ducks back for you? And for so many it is. I'm amazed at how people do it. They're built different in the same way as doctors and nurses and firefighters.

People that need to deal with trauma. You are dealing with interpersonal trauma. You are a soldier on the field of interpersonal battle if you're in politics or if you're in business. Yeah. You also don't necessarily do what you believe. You do what's expedient or successful or efficacious. You, efficacious, what's that mean? Effective. Okay. Yeah.

You betray a lot of people, a lot of ideals, including yourself. It doesn't sound like what I much fun to me. at that betrayal part I wonder if it's inherent or if that's me reading it from the outside and saying no that could be different I wonder how much of that is people optimizing for the wrong outcome

and only getting to see a very narrow aperture of other people's outcomes too or this person seemed to step on some toes and break a couple of arms on their way they were okay everyone seems to be alright with this you go you don't know what the texture

of that person's mind's like when they go to bed at night they might have spoken to their father in five years they might never feel peace they might permanently be anxious they might hate themselves might not be able to get an erection right you want that you really want that

but you want this you want the outside success the price that people pay to be somebody that you admire is one of the most fascinating questions, I think. Yeah. Yeah? Trying to think I'm going through my head right now, where have I sacrificed my own character to get ahead so then to be perceived as, and I know I've done it many times.

part of that hustling part I said I've done you know Well that's the rise You know yeah And being a marketeer too You know Got in away with stuff Play games and da da da da da

Kiss the fire and walk away whistling A little Icarus light Yeah We talked about Icarus last time No No I think I think we're more in need of Icarus in reverse

Meaning, I think, you know, oh, don't get too close to the sun. It's getting hot. It's going to melt that wax. I think most of us are turning back and it's 45 degrees Fahrenheit. I think so, I'm going to read he's on. I was like, dude, where do we get the arrogance to think that it's actually getting hot? We're not even close, man. Not even close to getting hot.

Maybe that close to the sun is way up there. Arrogent pricks you are thinking that you're that close. You didn't make it near as far as you thought you did. Or as you could go. I wish more people I'm going to flip the word were more involved with themselves Embrace your icarus

Instead of self-involved That has a bad term I wish people were more involved with themselves Yeah I think that's where we're more deficient Believe in yourself Or invest in yourself Do more of what you can

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bottom wisdom right in the face yeah you thought you could hide back there didn't you no no no i see you man you know the story of sycophis man that was cursed to roll the boulder up a hill for the rest of time by the gods uh this man gets cursed i think he was a demi god gets cursed to roll a boulder up a hill It's a heavy, heavy boulder. He rolls it uphill and just as he gets to the very top, he stumbles and it falls down and crushes him. Okay.

And he needs to walk back to the bottom, turn around, pick it back up. And Albeck Camus' famous line is, we must imagine Sisyphus Happy, that this pointless pursuit, that he finds joy in the process of doing it. I wonder if we can imagine Icarus happy. I wonder if we can imagine the guy that is flying toward the sun. as, well, he had a view that nobody else got from up there.

And he only did it once, and the wings melted. But what if he'd run that experiment a few times, and what if he had a little parachute that could have sort of brought it down? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You might have realized that that was just a one-off, and actually I think you can get closer. Right, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

We must imagine Icarus happy, I think, is a cool idea. Yeah, and, you know, he regulated his breathing as it got so hot. and sweaty and he learned somebody swung by and he had a backpack with water on him next time yeah he's the stronger glue four feathers yeah he stitched it you know what i mean came down a little more tan than the time before i've always relied on logic to make sense of myself and the world i've been finding that tougher to do lately seems to me the facts have become unreliably overrated how so what is a fact where do we go for the facts what's the truth what's we go for that that's

probably a bigger question and what's a fact i think a fact i think the facts are an underdog right now and i'm not sure where to go to find them the math doesn't seem to be adding up i'm not looking around so much for the reason I wrote this for my own spiritual therapy I was going I found myself

getting cynical looking down my nose not giving people the benefit of the doubt stereotype and objectifying full group people and groups

and then the scary part was I started to entertain the idea of Damn it may just be how it is now. And that scared me. And then I got angry at that, and I'm still in midst of some anger with that,

which is a bit of that rage thing, which makes me act upon it and go, bullshit. Not conceding, and I don't think anyone really wants to concede that that's just the way it is. And if it is the way it is, and the reality is not enough to. to get off to, let's go to the dream. Let's flip that script. I always have gone from nonfiction to say, let's make that the dream.

Just keep living. Art emulates life. And that's, in the recent years, I started to pay me back less. How much is that to do with my own eyes? Probably quite a bit. But whatever it is, still seeing it,

and I want to fight against it. So I flipped it and said, let's go to dreams. Let's go to poems, prayers. These are pursuits of an ideal beauty. These are in between the lines. This is in between the math. This is not academic. This is not intellectual.

These are ideals that we pursue, the beginner's mind that we have as a child, before we know worse. And I don't want to be ignorant. I don't want to be foolishly optimistic. Let's look to those and believe that we can still make those real. Let that bring rhyme to the reason instead of looking to the reason. define the rhyme. That's the rhyme communicating with the reason because life around us is all like reason, reason, reason, neck up, man. So I want to pull some weeds here on this pathway, open up that, this one lane dirt top road with potholes, and it's a one way going the opposite way, which way I want it to go.

It's going away from the heart. Yeah. I'm going to clean that up a little bit and go, let's get you two communicating a little bit. You're not going to win every time, bud, because we like our reason. We want to mind ourselves. But we make a decision and we have any kind of certainty or we make a judgment, let's have our heart be a two-factor authenticated before we make that decision. And that goes for the compassionate side.

That also goes for the consequences of saying the buck stops here with ourselves and others. How do you advise perennial overthinkers to get below the neck? Perennial overthinkers. Get below the neck. Record themselves all overthinking. Have a listen back. I do it. I overthink a lot.

And when I've heard myself back, I'm not going, dude, you kind of see. so much significant, but none of that shit's significant. Every detailed frame, you're giving it a proper name. Oh, if everything's significant, there's no significance at all, man. Some shit's just like, I don't have the capacity to deal with it, or I don't really care. It's just how it is. Some of the inevitables, man, sometimes you've got to let those ride. Go, I'm not trying that.

That's just how it is. I'm going to deal with that. Now I'm going to deal with what I can deal with. I get the mental meditations on that, and I listen to myself back, and I'm like going, whoa, you need to get some sleep. You need to have a drink. You need to relax. You need to, you know, I got this funny poem in here. It's called barbiturate logic.

Where's barbiturate logic? Can I find this for a second? Do, do, do, do, do, do, do, there it is. I need to calm my brain. to have half the thoughts per hour 50% of the neural fragment and therefore twice the power and one doubly meaningful story

with half the words you know sometimes the snaps it's just it's too much it's all treble and if everything is significant you're like you miss it the main thing I'm missing so focused on the drop I didn't realize it was raining

it's the force for the tree thing So that's the overthinking. When I've recorded myself, I can hear that there is some lanyap, et cetera, in my talk. And some of it is babble. Some of it may be succinctly fine-tuned and wonderful. Then I have to go, is that useful to my understanding? Is it useful to the story I can tell? Is it useful to my application in life?

And a lot of times I'm like, no, it's clever. It's like smart. I don't want to spend too much time in that head because that sounds like, you know, you broke a sweat. In places you weren't really getting exercise, mentally, spiritually or physically. So that can sometimes

listening back has helped me baseline some things and slow the brain down, man. You're missing, give more meaning. And you hear the smartest people, man, I love hearing the wisest people. They're stuff short, bro. It's quick. and you go, oh, and you're like waiting for more

and you're looking around, and they're like, look, and she's like, oh, that's it. And you're like, perfect. My dad telling me, when I wanted to go to film school until law school, and I thought he was going to go, you want to what? Him taking that pause and say, is that what you want to do? And I said, yes, her, and him going, well, don't half ass it.

I was waiting for so much more. That was it. And there's no, that was it. Nothing better he could have told me at that time. Yeah, it's also, I think, remembering when we overthink things or over-explained things. You're stealing a lot of times in moments that you think maybe you're teaching, even ourselves, especially others. You're stealing the dignity of leaving the truth in the asker's kitchen. Like letting someone come up with, have a conversation, but you're letting them come.

up with the answer it's like what the best director's doing films they don't tell you what to do they talk about and get you to go oh oh yeah so it's it and they go it is as you say then we got ownership then that's our idea whether we were manipulated into it or not we're going thank you it's mine now we got fire now we got purpose now that you get the great performance in front of the camera and i think in in like life more too, when a person feels like they came up with the idea. I always tell directors, I'm easy to direct. Just don't tell me what to do.

And if you can, trick me into thinking, all the shit's my idea. Yeah. Yeah. There's a wonderful insight about why we like people that's similar to that. So inverse charisma. A lot of the time we think that we want to be more charismatic because that would make us more likable. We want our stories to be engaging in our aura to be electrifying and our presence to be magnetic and for us to walk into a room and for everybody's sort of luck, be compelled. And then I looked at the friends that I liked spending time around the most and they're interesting, but that wasn't really the common denominator.

Some people are interesting and some people make you feel interesting. And there's this wonderful story about Jenny Jerome, Winston Churchill's mother. And she gets to meet Benjamin Disraeli and William Gladstone on consecutive nights for dinner. And she leaves the first dinner, says, I left that feeling like he was the cleverest man in all of England. She goes to the second one. She says, I left that dinner feeling like I was the cleverest woman. and this wonderful idea that some people are interesting, some people make us feel interesting

and kind of the same with this idea here that allowing the conclusion to be arrived at is often the best solution. Yeah, I have to continue to watch it. I love being in the know. I love giving advice. I love sermonizing.

My kids would be like, can give some of the TED Talked at? I'm like, yeah, shut. Sit down. No, no, no, no, no. I've got slides. Let's, yeah. I'll let them find it.

You know, I had it a cool trick. And it was just so simple. But one, in talking and sharing something that you've learned that you think may be applicable to other people, the use of i you or we to use the we like you is dangerous because people are you're talking at me you're telling me what to do i is safe because well that's your that's your experience maybe you invite maybe people see themselves or not but to say we it's it's it's closer to platitudinal because you're going like are you speaking for all of us but it does welcome everybody in and it says that

and i always like this when i'm talking about things with people i'm like when i when i when i say we i'm including me all right because i'm not we includes me yeah we includes me i'm not i'm working on this shit too man you know um and trying and like after you reminded don't don't be afraid to ask the question that i'm asking for myself that can open up someone else to go well i got an answer to that what do you got did with the similar with the kids last night instead of saying Vita, Levi, Livingston. How are you doing? It's a tough question to answer.

I said, and her friend gave me this note. I said, hey, what's a life of a teenager like these days? They took off and talked and shared all kinds of stuff because I wasn't putting them on the spot or they didn't take it to put on this. I found it so much more about how they're feeling by asking a broad question. broad question yeah yeah yeah you know yeah it's funny how we need license for that yeah yeah in a strange way yeah yeah yeah to be able to talk about is a lot of times how we best talk about ourselves yeah yeah yeah yeah but couched with enough distance yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah i have noticed i have seen it

it's the i'm asking for a friend uh yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah what do you think about the role of courage in life you know we've talked so far about the balance of doing it yeah not doing it we've talked about dreaming big and maybe dreaming even further and then we've also had this idea of a little bit of relinquishing of control yeah as well as we've got to apply the effort we've got to have the vision but we've also got to know when we're going to let let go a little bit yeah it seems to me like courage the ability to feel our convictions and commit to them is a little bit of a common thread that sort of runs through those.

Yeah. So I grew up only knowing sort of the courage of the persistence. Be resilient, endure, get up, dust yourself off, go. The problem with that, the Achilles heel with that is if you get up and get the courage to keep on going every time and get up and dust yourself off, you make the same mistakes. each time around, because you never backed up to have what I've now learned and still learning

is the courage to go, no, I'm going to let some people pass me in the race right now, because I'm going to look at why I keep stepping in that damn same pothole and twist my ankle, the same spot, why I keep failing when I try to get that next spot in this relationship or failing in this place to get this product of my craft to the next level. Would that be the relinquishing of the rom-com era in a small part for you? small part yeah uh yeah that that was one it also has to do with when i got married my you know son comes to me at four years old and says why isn't mama mcana hay i'm gonna go and them ahead you're fucking four dude i sat there i was like god did your mom put you with this

great question but i mean we're not because we're not married when you get married you switch your name okay and then he just got to listen and all of a sudden he goes why he's scared I was fucking four years old, dude, again. And I'm like, yeah, I guess I am. I remember going to a pastor and talking to a lot of different elder men who had had long-term relationships and were married for decades and stuff. And my pastor goes, let me just ask you this,

Mr. Risk taker. What's the bigger risk? Carrying on? Mike are going? And it's going well. Or taking the deeper dive into, the sacrament covenant of marriage should be a covenant between you and her and god the trilogy will go forward that would be a whole new event adventure in itself what's a big risk i was like oh the

getting married's bigger risk it was like he didn't say another word that was part of why i made the affirmative action and was what i was looking for it's a way to play offense with that choice i didn't want to do it because oh what you're supposed to do it's time we've been dating for this long we got engaged i didn't want to do it by the book and i was looking for the offensive reason to do it and That did help me with that. The rom-com time, that was definitely me doing the work I was doing and only being able to do the work I was doing and offer the roles I was getting the rom-coms was eating at me.

I felt like I could, life is good, man. I make good money. I feel like I can roll out of bed and do one of these tomorrow morning. well that's cool man I'm kind of number one I'm the I'm the go-to guy for this but I wasn't I was countered by

I had met Camilla falling in love she's now pregnant with her first child so that my life was extremely vital and I was alive cried harder laugh louder felt more joy all those things but my work was like all right and I was like well I wish my work could

be as challenging or as vital There's my life, and I remember looking at the mirror going, we'll be glad right now. Appreciate that it's not the other way around. But can I have my work challenge my lifestyle in this vitality? Yeah, if I do some dramas I want to do, well, those aren't coming. All right, if I can't do what I want to do, let me quit, do what I was doing. Now, that was, I think, yeah, it was definitely courageous.

I did honestly think I'd written myself a one-way ticket out of Hollywood. people close to me basically almost everybody besides my wife was like what is your major malfunction little brother you got it made why are you throwing a jackknife in this that you're tripping yourself running downhill man you you did it um i had my wife and myself to remind myself for that 4 a.m. clarity that I had in tears when I was like, no, I'm rolling the dice. I'm sticking with it. And I did think I wrote myself a ticket out of Hollywood. I did look at other vocations, become a teacher, a wildlife guide. I seriously look at those things. but over time and it was about 20 months it was gone long enough had found anonymity enough

was not in your living room in a theater in a rom-com you didn't seem on a beat shirtless where is he and then i think i told you this story turning down the 14.5 million dollar offer made people go oh shit what's he up to you don't just you don't just step out of hollywood and enter unless you get you turn that down because you've got a plan you got somewhere you want to go And I think that made me more attractive as a new novel idea. But that was, yeah, that risk took a, I think it's fair to say that took a fair amount of courage from me. A quick aside, if you've been feeling a bit sluggish, your testosterone levels might be the problem. They play a huge role in your energy, focus, and performance.

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usually be a nightmare and cost thousands. But with function, it's just $499. And right now you can get an additional hundred bucks off, bringing it down to $399.99. So get the exact same blood panels that I get and save $100 bucks by going to the link in the description below or heading to functionhealth.com slash modern wisdom. That's functionhealth.com slash modern wisdom. For a lot of people, their work feels more vital than their life. Yeah. Is that a shiny object mirage that they need to rid themselves off? If you can and you're willing to, yeah. Look, that's part of why I started writing.

The script flipped on me five years ago. I was like, I was feeling like my work was more vital than my life. I felt like I was going through the motions more in my life, but I was really getting major life experiences through my work. and I had the same question. I was like, well, let's see where I can challenge myself more in the documentary, the one life I'm living rather than the characters I'm going to play that somebody else wrote, someone else directing, someone else is lensing through their camera and editing.

What are we doing on this one take? I've had since the day we're born and we'll be cut the day we die. And so that was a challenge to myself, which led to the writing, which was a more direct experience, put a word down without, it's my script and without my performance on it, without music, without pictures. And, uh, so that was an inward journey that I'm still on. And now I think I'm trying to want to do both of them. I just did a couple movies. Jeez, I was reminded how much I love it. It felt like freaking vacation going to act again, to have a singular obsession

like that was like, it was a vacation for me. And I did good work. I don't mean like it was it was laying back with the Pinacolada, I would get in what I wanted done each day and collaborate with something they'd like to collaborate with and building this thing and building the character within a movie and being done was like, that was so much fun. That felt like a vacation,

much more so than the two months I just spent in Europe. It felt like more of a vacation than that, which has led me to question myself, maybe I need to learn how to vacation differently or better. That's also a skill. Yeah. I hear True Detective Season 2 maybe coming back. That would be season probably five.

Season two with you. Well, Nick's got an idea. Pits a lot of the creator. And he's brought it up to Woody and now. We've talked about it. And he says he's got a line on it. And we both said, awesome.

Show us. That's as far as this is gone. I think we've talked about that. I missed that. I loved that series. This is my favorite thing to watch on TV. And I happen to be in it. But I just was, I loved it.

I watched it every Sunday night. like everybody else. And in this series, it was the first time, especially now, because things are getting abbreviated. The first acts of stories are getting abbreviated. More and more I'm finding. And I don't know if this is because, oh, people's attention span or shorter,

just introduce characters and let's get on with the conflict. But Act 2 starts on page 12. It used to start on page 37, 38, and now it starts on page 12. And I'm like, man, the actor's favorite. part is act one because that's where we're going okay maybe you've seen it before but you hadn't seen it with me you hadn't gone on this journey with this character let me introduce you before the conflict arises to this world and this character and my behavior my relationship so you can go

on a journey with us with me like you've never gone through this before well those are getting reduced the series of true detective eight series eight hour episodes man i got three hours i got 90 pages of an act one. That's a luxury and a beautiful thing to have. So they think, okay, you don't, and it took me a lot of patience because I almost made some choices. I remember sitting there after a month in thinking like, I think what I'm doing may be really boring.

And I was like, no, trust. Trust when Rust becomes crash. It's going to flip. Trust getting there. But I was sitting there and I was going to Nick and carry on it. Is this boring? And they were like, no, stick with it. I'm like, okay.

I go, you see stuff bubbling underneath? They're like, yeah. I was like, okay, because I'm getting anti, you know? So if that came along, it was the right script, it would be a great collaboration again. I'll tell you how I had on the show last week in London, Bugsie Malone. And he was telling me a few stories about what he learned working with Guy Ritchie. Yeah. What have you learned working with Guy?

Guy is great in the moment. But you ask Guy to work on anything or talk about what we're looking for dinner tonight, and it may be 6 o'clock. That's too far in the future. That son of a gun. He wrote the script. And I go in and my character,

great monologues and great things to say, and it takes a lot of work to work on those things. and work and understand him. And I'd show up on the day, and he'd always sit down and let's hear it. And he'd be over there listening. And all of a sudden, he'd be like, oh, God, what did you see? Oh, geez, what was that line there? Oh, God, that's rubbish.

Who wrote that? Well, you did. He's like, oh, God, that's shit. You know what? And he starts spitting out different lines. And he's rewriting on the day, like right before you're supposed to do the scene. Not the morning of, and definitely not on a Sunday before the week. I'd ask him to meet me on Sunday to go of the script.

He stood me up every time. Every time. But you get on set. and now he's in it and the stuff he comes up with live where I went from frustration to like oh because 95% the stuff he comes up with life is better than what was there and so I started to go okay it's a meter it's a musical meter of speech patterns that he's hearing and pop pop and there's no ums and any of his stuff it's sharp you know it's it's noun verb nonverb noun verb maybe an adjective adverb in there somewhere period bam pop pop pop pop pop pop pop and he hears it

in the moment and again he's funny he'll call out something then you'll think i thought was some this genius stuff he wrote and he'd be like oh god that shit who wrote that and like well you deal he's like well that's rubbish throw it out and he's like the uh he's like the freestyle rapper of the director world yeah and i loved after i got past frustration i mean i enjoyed him and working with, enjoyed him before I enjoyed working with him. And then I understood the way he worked and continued to enjoy him and enjoyed working with him. I really enjoyed working with the guy and the way his mind works, his attention when it's live, when it's time. Now we're in it.

Now we're at the table. We are all here to shoot the scene. Let's sit down now and read through this and how it sounds. But you want to do this an hour before? You want to do this back in the trailer? Uh-uh. Uh-uh. That's exciting.

That's like a tight rope. Yeah. So I had to go between, you know, what's worth learning anything in the damn script to, no, no, no, no, no, no, you know, there's certain things. Of course, you've been reading this thing the night before thinking, I know 50% of this is going to be thrown out tomorrow. 60%, you know? But like I said, when you look and you hear it and you go, in the moment, you go, that is better. Yeah.

And the hard part is right after you hear it's better and you agree it's better, it's like, okay, let's shoot it. And I like, well, hang on. I'd need to, it was a lot. Let me have a look at it. You know what I mean? Let me try and at least memorize some of it. Yeah.

Apparently you've shot at Stray Vista before. Did you have a cactus? Did you have a... I had many cactuses in many places that had a cactus. I was telling a story to someone a couple days ago. I think it's the picture on the back of the book where my air stream is there. I believe that's in Utah, and I remember that place because I pulled off the side of the road about 5 p.m. one afternoon, and I went on this dirt road through this camp that was crystal meth.

They were hacking it up in the wandering eyes and the twitches. They were all out there watching me pull in. And I'd learned from being on the road enough that it was me and my dog that when you go and, you know, some possible danger in the way. people that are around. You've got to watch how you get out. You've got to watch how deliberately you back that thing up. You've got to watch how you get out of the car, how you walk deliberate, how you got your shoulders back. And you also, it's a good idea to grab the baseball bat and do some stretches with it with your shirt off, you know, and your dog's out. And while you know they're over there a half mile away with the binoculars, just enough to hopefully have them go, well, maybe let's pick the next guy. You know what I mean? And that night, I slept there

and went to bed and I woke up. at 4 a.m. to this sound and of course I already had it on my mind in case they come down to break it it wasn't them I unbe-knowest to me it pulled up six feet away from a uh uh rail train rail and a train came by at four in the frickin' morning and and I was six feet from it and that's what I woke up from in that spot so you do feel it huh we just need a train going by train would be right on the backside yeah right on the backside um in deserts you know you got me in the desert this is my this is where I I feel most at home in deserts. I don't know what it is.

Deserts are like cats. They're so feline. You know, everything's incredibly clean. There's no mildew. There's no, the moisture's not there. If something rot, it dries. It doesn't. It's no bacteria.

And I just love the cleanliness of a desert. I get a lot of energy in the desert. What's the difference between a nice guy and a good man? Yeah. Um, right about that in there, but a nice guy has, it's about some, a nice guy gets along. Yeah, do that. Yeah, I'll do that. They don't necessarily have discernment or judgment, not sure what they stand for or stand against. It's like, yes, yes, yes, sure. Yeah, hey, a good man has ideals that they stand for and they'll stand against and when they're tested.

A good man is not a nice guy. Um, that's in the chapter of manning up. you know, that's, I was that time when I was doing the rom-coms, and that's all I could do. I was feeling like my work was just me as a nice guy. And in life, I was not just a nice guy. Like I said, Camilla was pregnant. I got a child coming. I was feral with masculinity. And my work, maybe I was feeling a bit neutered.

And I was like, well, I'm a good guy and a good man in life, but I'm just a nice guy. I work, can I be roles, that can be a good man. And that was dramas. Because in dramas you can stand for or stand to get something, your ceiling for pleasure and your basement for pain are up to you. How do you feel about it? And no direction can go, that's too much. That's not enough.

You got too angry there. Oh, you meant that too much. That didn't come in a drama. Those come in a rom-com, right? Because the emotions and how you feel are compressed to be an aboyant level and a threshold that's up balancing from cloud to cloud only. Dramas are as much pain, as much evil as you want to go,

as deep, dark, you want to go, get there, let's see how far you go. How high you want to fly, how close to that sun you get for you get burned, go, let's see how far you go. That's what you get in a drama, much more like real life. And so, you know, good guys,

being a good, being a good man's a lot harder for good reason. I'm not going to be most popular. You're not going to be always most affable. It also doesn't mean you've got to be a dick or an asshole. It just means as times you're going to go, I believe in this is this for me and this is for me. And that is not for me.

And because that is not for me, if you do trespass into my space upon me and my family, I will do my best to cause consequences. and I'm going to let you know that. I hope that's apparent because I'm not going to intrude on you, but if you trespass that, I mean, I'm going to stand up for it. And that we can talk our way out of that? Great. No, it doesn't always work that way.

You know, my good man's not looking for trouble, you know. But if it comes and if he or something he cares about unless we're susceptible being trespassed on by trouble. A good man does what he can to do to stop that. So Aaron, Bugsie, tells this story he famously had his house, a robbery attempt occurred on his very nice house in Manchester. Manchester's got some spicy individuals in it from the gang culture. And there is a CCTV video of him.

Now, by this point, this is, I think, 21 or 22. So he's been in the first movie. He has had multiple huge albums, world tour, rapping, done all the things. Most played fire in the booth, freestyle in history, all of this stuff, right? So you might think, even though he came from below the streets, sort of he came from the sewers as a kid, he has a public image to keep up, maybe he's got soft, the sort of... Velvet prison, silk pyjamas problem, and he told me this story. And his girlfriend rings. She's in the house. These men are trying to break in. There's a barricade. So he's driving back with his sister in the car. He's driving back. And there's a guy by the side of the road. And he can see he's

got a brick in his hand. So Aaron stops the car, opens the door and immediately says, mate, is that you? Blue shirt. That's such a nice blue shirt. And he's moving toward him. He puts his hands in the air like this. He's moving toward him. He's moving towards. He's moved to what. Hits this guy, brick drops, finishes him off, gets back in the car. And this bit's captured on CCTV, and somebody overlaid it with the call to the police. So there's a 999 call going on from, I think, his mum, who's in the house. These men are trying to break in. And you see him pull up in this Mercedes, this guy, been in movies, to know the rest of it. And it's a van of dudes. It's a van of men. Trying to break in. Yes.

Yeah, you're trying to rob his house and see, it's rich, he's got something that we want. He's already dealt with one of them. He might have dealt with another one of them as well. And he falls in in this fancy Mercedes. You see this guy who has got kind of whirled at his feet, opens the door to his Mercedes, pulls his shirt off, and just sprints at this van. And it was fucking electric. He told me this story is so electric.

And that's on CCTV. that's great there's best video he ever made right there so hardcore it's so hardcore um but yeah that's you know good man not a nice guy we'll get back to talking in one minute but first momentous make the highest

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slash modern wisdom and modern wisdom a checkout. I guess, are there any principles or have you learned when it comes to the masculinity thing, are there any principles that you refuse to compromise on? Let's define, let's have fun trying to define masculinity here. I think we've, rightfully so, come out of the chasm that macho is masculinity. I think through certain perceived and not perceived and not perceived and really, realistic overcompensations of say a Me Too movement that some men felt shamed to be masculine.

Good men, not that way. I know for a fact, and again, I want to say to all the women out there, this has nothing to do with being exclusive of the rise of the rights and power of women, but in that over-conversation, there are a lot of men that I know who are looking for that definition that feel like... I've been told what it's not.

And now I don't know what it is, and... Fuck. I just opened the door for her. Shit, I'm done. Certain... And I bring that up, and sometimes, oh, that's frills.

No, but it's part of it. It's one example of, like, that's not what... That's not something with me too meant in the over-conversation, especially when they said, come one, come all. And Aziz Azari got thrown up there with Harvey Weinstein is the same crime. You're going, no, that's not the same. Hang on, man.

Not the same. There are a lot of men trying to understand what that is. And like anybody, they're not going to go down. You know, anything to be corrected, everyone overcompensates. You know what I mean? and but there's men looking for a redefinition of what masculinity is and there is a difference there are some wonderful beautiful differences between men and women thankfully biologically not always exclusive of each other you know but there's nothing that I see this is right up there

at the top. What's one of the best things for women all over the world is more good men. And a masculine, truly masculine man is not an oppressor. Truly masculine man is not macho. It's not chauvinist. But he's damn sure masculine. Most masculine I've ever felt after the birth of my first child. never were my head, heart, and loins in such synchronicity and the power that I had was, I mean, it's probably the best husband ever at that time too. Men want to be, and I don't know if this is biological,

because I'm not saying women don't, but men want to and are looking for ways to be relied upon. And so we say, yeah, but you always want to be the savior and you always want the solution. Okay. Cool. There's other wrong with wanting to find the solution to things? Great, let's work with that.

Thank you, women, for saying, glad you got the solution, but just listen to me for a second long because I'm not looking for a solution. Actually, I just want to talk this out and I'll probably answer my own question. You know what I mean? Doesn't mean don't be,

the male side of you that wants to find the solution or wants to be relied upon. It's being redefined now. And there's a lot of, I talked to them and a lot of young men and middle-aged men that are looking. You know, part of this role I got to play in this last film, The Lost Bus, it was not, you know, visible to me that I was also representing a large group of men

who were middle-aged, who woke up and looked around. I'm like, oh, shit. this isn't where I thought I'd be oh shit I haven't built anything failed marriages failed jobs some of them did it all right too a lot of them when things got tough they snucked at the back door got the divorce didn't go one step further didn't show up and that caught up with them but that's also a large group of the demographic of men going like what is masculinity mean how and where can I be relied upon that gives me dignity to be relied

that gives me certificates call it what you want but if you think that's true and I do there's nothing wrong with that so what is masculinity you know

and I'm not going to you know let's get past the what are some of your definitions of understanding to what masculinity is. If we were going to say, men, here's something that you should expect of yourself and pursue as a biological male.

You know? It seems like a lot of the definitions converge on similar sorts of traits. Emotional composure tends to be one of them. Competence tends to be another. the ability to be decisive, is another of those. So we're starting to build this sort of suite of traits that it is. But as soon as you start to try and alter the edge cases, you say, well, I mean, you know, you're going to have somebody who's got emotional control.

That even slightly at its extreme is a denial of emotions and no vulnerability. right sort of all the bad bits of stoicism with none of the good bits right

and then okay you want sort of competence while that very quickly sort of turns into single-minded

progress at all costs regardless of what anybody else thinks and decisiveness turns into being domineering

and certain yes yeah yeah yeah I don't need to listen to you so I think it is

a very delicate balance. And I think it's a good point to say, Me Too was an important rebalance to men being able to use their positions of power to get access to women in ways that they shouldn't have done. And the goal of Me Too was to sanitize the toxic elements of men's behavior. But instead, it just sterilized all of them. It sterilized all of the elements of its behavior. I think it...

And I think it's when it became so many. movements are right on when it's a rifle. But as soon as they become general admission, it becomes the shotgun spread. And it's like, well, we got to, yeah, come on. I don't know. You're telling the truth? Oh, it doesn't matter. Yeah, come on.

That's it. It stops being the opportunity to rebalance something and it starts being an opportunity to grind an axe and continue to sort of put your foot on the neck of somebody else. So I think, yeah, you end up with this strange situation, especially. around me too. This is a pattern. I mentioned to you last time about type A people with type B problems and type B people with type A problems. And the theme of that is advice that's given en masse is sometimes right, even for the majority, but will be absorbed asymmetrically. If you give everybody the same supplements, some people will be hyper responders and some people will not respond at all. And sometimes the hyper responders are the people who didn't need it already. Right. So an example when it comes to the Me Too thing is the men who really needed to heed don't be pushy are precisely the men that that message will not work on. And the men who are most likely to take it to heart are the ones who probably needed a little bit more encouragement to go up to that girl in the bar. So if you're the type of guy who's a little bit more insured and a little bit more concerned and you didn't want to make a feel uncomfortable and you had approach anxiety, and then, like, believe all women, do not, the toxic male gays, you do not need to do the thing. You're going to think, oh, I knew, I knew all along that that was the case.

I must not, I must not do this thing. Whereas if you're the sort of guy who was already being way too pushy, unfortunately, this advice is, there are hyper responders and those that aren't, and unfortunately, a lot of the time, the people that are most likely to respond to bits of advice. And this is the same thing when it comes to men should be vulnerable. men should show their emotions more out of the panoply the full spectrum of men who do you think is most likely to take on board the message men should be more vulnerable men who are already vulnerable but they've got a disposition to be more vulnerable the guys that have got the denial of emotions you know boomer absent father fucking generational trauma passed down thing they don't know taking that on board. And it's just, I think it's a fascinating challenge that we face when you say the people who most need to hear a message are often the ones that are least likely to hear it.

And when you scattergun it across everyone, you can actually not reduce down the bad incidents you're trying to get rid of and further reduce down the good that you were hoping to hold onto it's a solvent that works in reverse and it strips away the stuff that you were trying to keep right and doesn't get rid of the bad stuff you wanted to evacuate so what can we all learn what can men learn and what can women learn back okay what can we learn from that heavy me to era where it was a toxic access that was you were getting away with it and all of a sudden I agree, but not to emasculate the good men or not have the ones that maybe were not offenders,

but boy, right, you know, a little bit more macho to have them not puff the chest out more and go, well, I'm going to double down on the macho to push that back. Yeah. Because I'm probably seen it as a little more progressive of a time in the way that I agree. The ones that maybe were shy or trying to receive were now going,

holy shit, I was right. But I also do think that it did chop down the top of the tree and reminded a lot that around that you go, you better back off, better back down, boy. 100%. That's not me saying it's all bad, obviously.

But it's thinking about the asymmetry of absorption when it comes to stuff like that. Yeah. I think... One of the things that I would hope we've learned from that situation is, you know, the idea of Chesterton's fence? No. Okay, so G.K. Cheston talks about a liberal and a conservative come across a fence post, two two fence posts in the field. Here, right in front of us.

Is there a fence here? No, I don't have a fence, but you can imagine. There's a fence here. Yeah, two fence posts with a little bit of, like, why between them. And the liberal would say, I see no reason for this fence. We should break it down. A conservative would say, hey, hey, hey, hold on a second. Someone put that there.

Maybe it is there for a reason. And the tension between innovation, novelty, adventurousness, openness, and respect for tradition, stasis, status quo. on the other side this is the perennial push and pull how much should we throw out these old traditions and how much should we and I think we

learned a lesson to maybe temper the throttle a little bit to just sort of feather it as opposed to whitewashing and I you made a great point

which is women want eligible men and this is why a zero-sum view of empathy that if you give a degree of empathy toward the plights of men despite the fact that for most of human history there had some benefits that women didn't apart from like the war and the death and the homelessness and the drug addiction and the you know so and so forth um if you say we can't give empathy to these people because it'll take away empathy which is not how empathy works. No, it's not exclusive of the other. That's, that's, that's, it's not a limited resource that we have. Um, if you'd say, uh, boo-hoo, poor patriarchy sad, complaining in the same breath, uh, men do not deserve sympathy. They've had it good for so

long, we don't need to raise them up. And in the next sentence saying, where are all of the good men at is mating logic sepuku, right? And yeah, I just, I get the sense, if any group has an issue, almost any group in society, we spend billions of money in taxpayer-funded dollars to set up surveys and initiatives. We don't tell them to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. If men have problem it is treated in a very very unique way anybody else on the planet has a problem we say what can we do to fix society but if men have a problem we say what is it men are doing where they don't fix themselves and this is just a price that we need to pay as guys it's a price we need to pay i've kind of given up on fighting against it right but i certainly think after the last few years

maybe we can but just settle here okay we've exorcised that demon let's fucking start an new right yeah i'm with you know i i i i One of the things I was questioning a lot of my friends of mine and some, many of them, females that were around the leadership from the Me Too movement was, when are you going to start inviting the good men, you know, to these gatherings? Well, come on, that's, it's not, you're not, it's not a, it's not a, it's not a, it's not a battle of the sexes. It's in a behavior that you're getting saying, hey, no more of that. mail was doing great now that that's understood there's a lot of men that agree i i remember you know it's like a lot of people in my industry men and they were like would tweet out when it first happened after the wine seats up well i just want to go on a record and let you know

i don't i don't believe in right either and i was like what are you doing dude you're kind of setting it up like was that questionable before they did and then it was if you didn't write that or something like that it was like what about you the black square of me too i was never yeah the black square of me too yeah yeah i was never i was i i i wasn't on the fence about it before you know um and that you know that that that was not it was more than different than just funny but i remember that being an odd reaction um yeah so yeah i hope the dust settles and i believe it is settling now because i know um uh that a lot of people, women included,

that are friends of mine that were a large part of the Me Too movement, would, I think, in some part, agree with what we're saying, going, we don't want to, we're not talking about canceling men. You know what I mean? That's not, that was canceling masculinity, and that would be not a good thing to do for men or women. Correct. It's creating the exact earth of eligible male partners

that they say that they're looking for. Yeah. You've got this great line where you say so many people are upset, with how to live longer instead of how to live better. Yeah. How do you come to think about that? Quantity. Success without the profit.

Ooh, how much more can I get? I'm for it, the longevity. I'm for it. But in the pursuit of it, are we measuring quality of life along the way? Some people aren't. And I, I personally don't want to have the highest number, but then go, well, I don't need fun, or I didn't enjoy that, or I didn't, that sucked.

I'm just trying to remind everyone that, just like in business, when I say success without the profit, we have plenty of people that succeed. If you've got the most money, the most toys, you succeed. And we talked about those people earlier that have, at the end of the day, have problems with their relationships or they can't sleep or they can't get the dick of whatever. They didn't profit. They're not profiting with their success. Profit measures quality with the quantity. So I'm saying real success is when you have profit. Well, really great longevity would be for those quality years, quality time left in this life.

I also say that because while I'm not looking forward to it, I'm not really afraid of death or dying. I'm not looking forward to it. Shaking my boots if I'm face to face with that great white. I mean, I'm not looking forward to it. it but i see it as a obviously it's inevitable and obviously i personally see it as a hopefully a comma you know not a period so the number the higher number i don't know just i think you all just watch being obsessed with that at the expense of quality of life is it the trade off or do the two work in tandem is what the trade-off.

Obsessed with how to live longer than how to live better? Do you think it detracts? No, I don't think it, I don't think it necessarily detracts. But it can. I do think, inevitably, you might be, if you're so obsessed with the projection length that you're going to miss a couple of really, really worthwhile parties now, where you may learn something, have the great love of, life, take a certain risk that, oh, you may not make it out of that, but we're going to do it

anyway. And I'm off for projection. It's a lot of what might get my, it's a lot of my jam. How far can we project in the future? Boy, the further we can project, the further I think we can see in the past, the more we have the ability to invest in ourselves today to get that more ROI tomorrow. I just think an obsession with the number can sometimes get in the way of seeing more of an obsession with the quality and the meaning of what we're doing right here, what's now and tomorrow. Is there something you do to remind yourself to inject more fun into your life? Oh, I mean, I've got some simple tricks, you know, if I'm not sure how to respond,

try to make the default to motion, humor. And I'm a big fan, a big fan of humor, and I wish we had more of it. And I think it's how we're going to get through a lot of these things that we have. is we're going to have to all giggle at a few things and go. Yeah. And also at ourselves, to be able to, I'm still learning and getting better at

to giggle at myself when I bogey. You know what I mean? Just go, yep. And to not be afraid of that failure and be able to fess up and go, yep, that was me. Okay, geez, that didn't work. Laughter.

I think we, we, we, it's taken as being being, discompassionate sometimes or it's being insensitive. And it's flippant. Yeah, like you're making the crisis benign. You're not giving the crisis credit. No, I'm giving the crisis credit,

but I'm saying the crisis has happened. And now we've got to deal with getting through this son of a bitch. So it's going to be tough. So can we giggle our way through, untying this knot? I'm not patronizing the crisis at all. I just want to go ahead and have a, you know, It's why, you know, the greatest comedians, you know, Chappelle, he says stuff while the wounds, people go, you can't say that now. The wound's, wound's too fresh.

It's why he's so smart and why he's so funny because he says it beforehand and calls it out. Jimmy Carr's got a bit about that where I think he says, saying that there is a topic too sensitive to joke about is like saying there is a disease too serious to treat. Okay. Okay. Okay. I like that. Wow. Yeah. You know, yeah. And humor as well with as a learning and a teaching tool and a true humility with our own selves of what we can learn and how we can learn and what we know and written what we don't know. And it's a great way to not convert. It's a great way to help someone understand. It makes it, it's why I'm rhyming in here. It's why some of these are ditties. That's why I'm saying, let's sell Sunday morning like a Saturday night.

Let's, let's, let's have a beer on the way to the temple. You know what I mean? It's more digestible. If we can dance to it and the broccoli actually does more than taste like candy, it is the candy. What's that, you got a poem called Life and Candy Crush? Is there a parallel between the two? I love that game.

I love Candy Crush. As I said it, you're out there, send me some free lives or a whole bunch of those prizes in there. Yeah, my kids always blessed me for playing Candy Crush. I'm like, this is a great game, and let me tell you why. So I decided to put in there what I've shared with my children, what I've noticed about. You've learned from the great game of Candy Crush.

What I've learned from the great game of Candy Crush, yeah. That's funny. I'm interested in where confidence comes from as far as you're concerned. Yeah. Well, it definitely comes from belief, not hope. It comes from pulling something off. It comes from, oh, I think I got an ability to do that. work on that we prepare to do that oh shit i'm not sure bam i'm in the game action cut life or

movie oh i did it i felt it too i know i did it and you who were the observer go you did it i got confidence i personally felt it and it translated subjectively i felt it and objectively you went yep confidence i make a big plan i write something out a plan for the day the week and an event, a circumstance, a scene, or write out all this stuff, what my intent is or what I want to do, what I hope comes from this, and I shut that.

And a year later, I do that scene, or I'm at that event. And someone comes up afterwards, he goes, you know what that was, man? That was bop, bop, bop, pop, pa, pop, pop, and I'm like, that's exactly what I wrote. A year ago. Yeah.

It's what I wanted to do. Pulled it off of that saying one of those words. that's what you got from it yes confidence identity testing it out and it can work confidence to go i'm going to try and pull this off maybe get away with it maybe it won't work pulling things off translating without saying the word or without manipulation feeling when i am something that we have And I have an innate ability for something that I believe I have the innate ability. And I learned to the reason behind that instinct and how to, where's the right time? Timing.

Oh, and it'll work, I think, right here. Who's the audience I'm talking to? Oh, yeah. I'm going to make a plan for that cell, if it's all sales, for that transaction or whatever. And bam, it hits and it lands like I wanted it to. I wanted it to. Damn it. Was that deja vu?

It happened. That's how I saw it. That, I get confidence from that. I'm still working on and, you know, now I think even more in this, I'm not going to see second half, whatever, the 50s. Humility while still maintaining confidence. I had a really tough relationship with humility. until I heard I think it was

Jordan Peterson's definition. Humility is admitting we have more to learn. And I was like, oh, whoa, I'm in. I can get on board with that. Let me sign up because before that, humility, to be humbled, to be humiliated. My shoulders would sink. I would be small.

Passive and wouldn't speak up. Or there's the opportunity. And I miss it. And I was like, man, I don't think that's what it means, but I don't know how to get around it. It's funny how we need the definition of words to change a little bit like that. And that could be just a, that can be a 180. You know what I heard the other day? I heard a fantastic new definition of vulnerability.

What was it? Said, vulnerability is saying your truth in spite of the consequences, especially when they're scary. Oh, see, that sounds fun. Get on board with that. sounds fun that's a that that's a different kind of surrender you say what's true in spite of the consequences especially when it's scary i'll be damned especially when it's scary yeah especially when it's scary ah i like that it's got offense to it yeah yeah i feel like i'm on the front foot yeah i feel like it's something that's noble yeah right and it's the same with this rework or perhaps

the original work of humility yeah i can i can i can step forward into this i'm not stepping back right away from it and i think specific with men I think it's a perhaps a very smart way to do a super secret squirrel technique yeah you know Jedi mind trick to go so this is not a step back it's actually a lexically Brazilian jiu-jitsu this thing into you're going forward now um but yeah I I think and and and and and dare I say women out there did you hear that? manipulate us to feel that way go for it happily i'll be manipulated all day into that and call us childish for wanting and needing that play it man we'll see we'll take it these are the these are

the cheat codes let us lay them out in front of you yeah you know one of the best uh best bits of advice that i heard this sort of reframe that's similar to that um this guy was talking about he was in a relationship with a lady and he had to be clean shaving through the week and would leave his facial hair to grow over the weekend. By Sunday evening, you know, he's got enough stubble to really scratch. And his ex-partner would say, I just hate on a Sunday where your face is scratching me in my mouth. I'm so red and roar and it's so annoying. And needless to say, that relationship didn't work. And then he moved into another relationship. And this new partner had the exact same preference, but said to him, honey, I find it so sexy when you're clean-shaven.

I think that's just the hottest thing in the world. Incentives, incentives, follow the incentives. Oh, just lay out that little red crumb in front of us. We will chase that carrot, man. We're lead pipe sent. It's so easy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Without complacency, trust that time is on your side.

What do you mean, that? Yeah, man. I'll get a header behind it, and then I can get in a rush. And I haven't found, look, I know how to hustle and let's go. The clock's ticking. We're all behind. All hands on deck.

We got to bust ass. No time for pause. There's no sleep, no nothing. Get the caffeine out. Let's go. Sometimes we've got to do that. But that is usually because an unforeseen circumstance has happened, that there's a crisis we've got to deal with. Or we've procrastinated and I've put myself in that position.

We've got to cram. But it's not those two circumstances. We're going to watch ourselves getting ahead of time. and it's on your side it's a little what i mean about the living longer and living more quality time's on our side and we're forced to think and feel especially today with how fast things move that more productivity faster pace more information faster pace that's better we're we're ahead of time a lot and but time's still moving at the same speed and they're not given more than 24 hours a day even though me like a lot of people are looking for more there's not there's not

any more unless you just want to change your work day and some people do me i need my nine and a half hour of sleep if i want to say i'm getting four hours and get five and a half hours more of a work day to be more productive i would but not to making that trade off it's on our side and when we're feeling like we're dancing with time i know i'm usually getting as much or i'm getting more done at the same pace than if I'm, it's the John Wooden, a great basketball coach for UCLA, be quick, but don't be in a hurry. That was his note to his basketball players.

It's like, be quick, but don't be in a hurry. You will miss things. You know, it's the Lego set, man. And you sit there and you get in a rush, you don't read the directions. You get to the end and you've got 12 pieces left. And you're like, shit. Because you got in a hurry. You got ahead of time instead of just that feeling of,

I've checked out what I need to do and it's all adding up and this thing's built right and the foundation right and boom, there's the last piece it fits. Walla. It was with time.

Time's on our side. It's not an enemy. The end. Death is not the enemy. I do believe that part of, you know, not in a rush to get there and we can stave it,

we want to stave it off sometimes and that it can be a screaming fight and partially denial can help us get there. I understand that, but still, it's on our side. It's going to happen. And since it's going to happen,

and there's that's non-negotiable might as well go well i'm not gonna rush to try and make more of it than there is i want to try and spend the time i got as well as i can produce succeed achieve whatever those things are but also at a pace that i'm me that i that i like i like the dance to i like the giving the take i like the reverb i like the the cause and effect of how things are happening at this pace. How are we orienting ourselves now since time is speeding up so much faster with AI? I don't ask you this with AI. And I mean this is an objective question. With AI.

With all these podcasts, with all these wealth of information that people can get at all times. And no one's listening to music anymore. They listen to everybody talk about this and reading up and this. And they're finding out the answers in 10 seconds that would have taken them 10 days. you get before. Do people sound smarter to you? No. Me neither.

It don't sound dumber. I do think, so we were talking about if everything's significant, nothing significant at all. I do think that I talk to some people that feel like they're hyperly punching their information. Absolutely fucking great. Just flushing out, but I'm going, walk, dude. What was the theme there?

Did you have a bass guitar in your band? You need a bass guitar? or at least somebody on percussion, hold it down, because I didn't hear the theme. I didn't hear the thread. It was digits. Where was the soul in that story? Which goes back to the quality with the quantity,

the quantity of information, but can we have the soul in it? It's where, ah, I hear the rhyme. Ah, there's rhyme to those digits. There's rhyme to those facts. Oh, I see how they add up. Oh, but what if you put them in this order? Ha, they add up to another thing. Or actually, they may add up to the same damn thing.

Interesting. Now I've got a rhyme. Now there's a song. that happens when time's on your side and you're looking at it and I open that up without complacency. Like start now. That doesn't mean times on my side, yeah, dude, in July.

When it happens, it'll happen. No, I'm like, wake up. Clock's ticking. It's on your side. Now just move with it. Dance with it. Put some soul with the facts. Matthew McConae, ladies and gentlemen.

dude you're great you're so fantastic super fun talking to you do it for hours did we just do that for an hour or so uh two and a bit did we really yeah again it flies it flies when you're having fun uh new book points of prayers that's it's it some belief not just belief in god but i think it's in short supply and i think more of us need it and if we don't have more of it doubt's going to win if doubt wins we're all going to lose and uh we've got stuff out there to believe in And I think people are looking for it. I know I am. And I think it's something we need.

I know something I need. And then I'm enjoying talking about it. I'm kind of saying this is sort of therapeutic, spiritual therapy for me because I'm getting to talk about it. I'm getting to talk with smart people about it. I'm getting questioned about it. I'm getting to repeat some of it. So it's become a matric for me.

And then I'm going to go put a lot of this to music. I hit the road. I've got some great musicians coming out to join me on stage and they're playing scores behind some of my reads. It's going to be fun. Unreal. Yeah. Thousand episodes.

Thank you for joining me. It's a really special one. You're welcome. My pleasure. So, you're an astream connoisseur. Yeah. So the originals, this is the first time that I know over then, but they partnered. I mean, there was somebody based at San Francisco, and they said, hey, let's modernize it up just a hair.

So these were new, this was a new design. just a little cleaner. This is the one original one I had. I called the canoe. And that's the one that I've mainly on the road look for about three years. Why? I think it was early 2000. Okay.

And it was me and my dog just traveling around. And if you and I are meeting a director of someone to meet, I'd be like, well, next Tuesday, let me see. And I'm going on in Albuquerque. I'm kind of moving this direction. But flying to Albuquerque airport, I'll pick you up at night in the morning, and then how about if I'm driving that direction, I'll drop you off in Lincoln, Nebraska. How about, you know, 6 o'clock that night, you get the 6 o'clock out of Lincoln.

We'd have our meeting on the road while I was pulling the airstream. And every one of those meetings was a great meeting. It was like, yeah, and it was like, some people stayed the night. And there's all my meetings. That's when we had a Blackberry, and I didn't have the phone as you have now. But I was all over North America in this. And I took this out, built my own table, in Louisiana with the carpenter.

I got given a paddle. The reason is called a canoe. I stayed with the Indian Squamish Nation Indian Reservation in Vancouver. I worked on a film two for the money. And on that reservation, there was a paparacha

that had moved in. And he was like, you know, hiding behind trees in the trailer park. And it's the Squamish Nation Indian Reservation is their private property. The chief's name, no shit, was Mike. Hunt, Chief Mike Hunt, went to, and his brothers

went to this guy and said, if you are not welcome here. He's like, it's a free country, I can stay around me. He goes, no, no, no. If you're disturbing someone in our tribe or making them any way uncomfortable, you're out. They kicked them out. A guy got the boot for just taking pictures. And I would, they would

catch, I had rib eyes, right? And they would catch their co-s salmon in shopping cars down the river. Set up the rocks where it was fun of the salmon into the shopping cart. They'd come up with a fresh salmon. and I would trade them cooked rib-eyes for their salmon. It was our barter. And he gave me the paddle when I left.

He said, in our nation, as we travel the rivers, the oar, is the compass, the rudder for our canoe. And as you travel the rivers, highway rivers of North America, may this keep you in your river. Yeah. That's sick. Well, you might not have noticed, but there's balloons, because. This is episode 1,000 today. Oh, all right. You are episode 1,000 on this show.

Come on. Yeah. All right. Yeah. Look at that. I know. Let's get going. Let's get to start.

Love it. Thank you very much for tuning in. Usually, I have something to sell you, typically another episode at the end of episodes. But that is 1,000 episodes of Modern Wisdom, the end of the first millennium. And getting to do it again with Matthew here on this video wall thing is really cool and beautiful. And it's very meaningful to me. And doing a thousand episodes of anything, doing a thousand of anything at all is a pretty big ask. If it wasn't for the fact that they were all numbered and I'd recorded them, I would have imagined that it was closer to 300 or 400.

So I've just compressed down time over the last seven and a half years. But I want to say thank you very much for following me, for supporting the show. Obviously, this has been a labor of love, so as much as I whine and complain about how tired I am, I wouldn't change it for anything else. I don't want to do anything at 2.23 p.m. on a Thursday in the middle of Texas, then sit down and have this conversation. So thank you for joining me. And here's to another thousand. All right. See you next time. I get asked all the time for book suggestions. People want to get into reading fiction or nonfiction or real life stories. And that's why I made a list of 100 of the most interesting and impactful books that I've ever read. These are the most life-changing reads that I've ever found. And there's descriptions about why I like them and links to go and buy them. And it's completely free. And you can get it right now by going to chriswillex.com slash books. That's chriswillex.com slash books. Thank you.