Modern Wisdom - #1048 - Trevor Wallace - Autism is the New Stolen Valor

Episode Date: January 19, 2026

Trevor Wallace is a comedian, writer, and content creator. What does going viral actually feel like? If you’re Trevor Wallace, it’s just another week. From Celsius kids to Zyn bros, Cybertrucks to Monster Energy and "Kyle's", Trevor turns internet chaos into comedy gold. So what’s the method behind his madness, and how does he keep winning the internet Expect to learn why Autism is the new stolen valour, Trevor’s thoughts on the new Charlie Sheen documentary, how Trevor gets ideas to create his content, Trevor’s thoughts on Celcius, ZYN culture, and Cybertrucks, how it feels to go viral on the internet, why dating is so hard now, why most of your fears are a waster of time and much more... Sponsors: See discounts for all the products I use and recommend: ⁠https://chriswillx.com/deals⁠ Get a free bottle of D3K2, an AG1 Welcome Kit, and more when you first subscribe at https://ag1.info/modernwisdom Get 35% off your first subscription on the best supplements from Momentous at https://livemomentous.com/modernwisdom New pricing since recording: Function is now just $365, plus get $25 off at https://functionhealth.com/modernwisdom Get a Free Sample Pack of LMNT’s most popular flavours with your first purchase at https://drinklmnt.com/modernwisdom Extra Stuff: Get my free reading list of 100 books to read before you die: ⁠https://chriswillx.com/books⁠ Try my productivity energy drink Neutonic: ⁠https://neutonic.com/modernwisdom⁠ Episodes You Might Enjoy: #577 - David Goggins - This Is How To Master Your Life: ⁠https://tinyurl.com/43hv6y59⁠ #712 - Dr Jordan Peterson - How To Destroy Your Negative Beliefs: ⁠https://tinyurl.com/2rtz7avf⁠ #700 - Dr Andrew Huberman - The Secret Tools To Hack Your Brain: ⁠https://tinyurl.com/3ccn5vkp⁠ - Get In Touch: Instagram: ⁠https://www.instagram.com/chriswillx⁠ Twitter: ⁠https://www.twitter.com/chriswillx⁠ YouTube: ⁠https://www.youtube.com/modernwisdompodcast⁠ Email: ⁠https://chriswillx.com/contact⁠ - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

That's really, how do I, how do I look? Cool, silence. All right. Does anybody, you have 19 people on set and everyone's like, I don't want to tell them. It looks like shit. Yeah, see, there we go. Look at this. Yes, dude.

Is that better? See, now this is the problem. Now that you've asked for feedback, all that you've got is, all you've got is like neuroticism is judgment. Okay, yeah, and can you write some better jokes? I'm like, who's not going on my outfit. Trevor Wallace, welcome the show. Hey, thanks for having me, Chris. Vogue published an article saying having a boyfriend is embarrassing now.

I don't have one. I figured. Meanwhile, men are on dating apps saying that they're looking for a slightly autistic woman. Swaths of men saying they want a girl with a touch of the tism. Okay, I just want the touch. I don't even care about the tism. You know what I mean? Like whatever they bring to the table, well, you know what it is?

Autistic women, like, from my experience, they're just passionate. They're just like, I just, that's all I've ever wanted dating somebody is somebody who's passionate about something, whether it's a career or, or, you know, trains. Whatever you're passionate on, I'm passionate for you. Well, you were saying that about hot girls that are just good at anything, chess or DJing or crochet stitching or something, that that is a niche. Yeah. That, and you're right as well. I think we like anybody that really loves... I just want you to love something.

Yeah. I don't care what your career is. Just love it. Can that be you? Can there something be you? What if you are their hobby? A part of it, sure. A part of it, sure.

But like, I've been in relationships where somebody didn't have that void. They wanted to fill of, like, love. And you almost feel guilty if you're too passionate. I would come home from, like, a show or filming something. And I had so much fun on this set or films. And I love it. And then they're like, oh, that's nice.

And you're like, Here we go again. I mean, can we get her a Zinn or something? Like, perk up. So, like, what are we? So you almost feel guilty. So, like, I just want to come home and share a communal experience where you're like, how was your day? Oh, I love that I got to do blah, blah, blah, blah. I love that I get to do this. So I've found that just incredible where you can just both share and not feel this like weird one-sided guilt. That I'm doing a thing. Yeah. You don't have a thing to do. Yeah, or a thing to do, but they hate it. It's like so many people hate their job, which is totally fine. Like, so many jobs. suck, but it kind of puts a dampening on the mood if, like, I'm happy with what I'm doing, and then they're like, oh, that's cool. Well, my day. I wonder whether that's most, I wonder whether that's most people that it's kind of tough because not everyone has the luxury of being able to do a job that they love, but pretty much everybody does have the luxury of being able to

get a hobby or an interest or passion that they love. That's the other side of it. So many people hate the job. I have plenty jobs that I hated. I used to work in a kiosk inside of a Costco. I wanted to unalive myself every day, but the chicken apple sausages samples saved me every single day. Okay. So I've had those jobs where I hated, but when I was at that job, I would write stand-up and that would make me get through the day. Like, that would excite me. So I'd just find those things that would excite me through it. So back to autism. I think whatever your passion is, just be passionate about it. I've, I've had, I've dated people who have, like, they've worked in like their own, like they make their own clothes or their own thing

and I'm like, I'm so happy for that. And when they show me a t-shirt or something where they stitched a pocket on in the pockets a denim shirt, is it going to sell? No, but she loves it. And that's what I love. Yeah, some of the feedback on the autistic dating thing, it's possible that some of these men are autistic themselves

are merely looking for a like-minded partner, but it's more likely that swathes of them are fetishizing neurodivergence. Autistic sex education. Mr. Miller, wait, wait, wait, what is her title? Autistic sex educator. Let's check her hard drive. How do you get into that field?

How do you go to NYU and be like, okay, hold on. Speaking of trains, let's talk about how they're running them. It's also hard to talk about autism. There's so many cars around me right now. This is the right location to do it. Yeah, you got Nader from cars behind you. You got everything in here is, is would, if I was teed up, which I might be. I have ADHD, I think.

I don't know. I did try to take an autism test one day, but there's too many questions. And I think that's my answer. I see. Well, look, autistic sex educator, the way that that's framed, are you somebody who educates autistic people about sex?

Or are you somebody who is autistic that is a sex educator? That one of my friends is the number one in-cell researcher on the planet. And he had to re-change the way that he introduced himself as, I'm the number one researcher of in-cells on the planet. Dude, there's too many jobs. I'm retracting whatever I said. But he loves it. He loves it. There we go. There we go.

He just loves insol. So he's the number one insol. Number one researcher of incels. Which makes him an insale. No, I think, well, research is me search in many ways. Ooh. But. I like that.

I'm sorry. I mean, I've met his girlfriend. I've met his girlfriend. He seems to be slinging it around. And he's Irish, so that helps. But anyway, yeah, autistic sex educator, Millie Evans, has been on dating apps since she was 18. She says it is genuinely wild. How often she sees references to autism on people's profiles.

I'd like to have a conversation with these people to understand what they're hoping to achieve, she told, dazed. I also, I feel bad for people who are generally autistic right now because I think there's a lot of stolen valor out there. I think there's a lot of people who are kind of just like claiming it because they want to like have something. Like growing up, I wanted to be different so bad. in my classroom, I told people I was colorblind. Because I wanted something different about me. Like a teacher would literally point of something blue and I'd be like, what is that, gray?

Like, I would like pretend. That was your personality. Yeah, I wanted to be, I wanted to have a thing. And I think there is so many people who generally have struggles every day about autism. And there's some people who are just like, maybe I'm just autistic. No, no, that's, you're just not,

you're using that as a cop out. Like you're using that as like a, oh, well, I don't know. I'm just, like, it's not, there's a lot of undiagnosed autism, which isn't really diagnosed. I can't remember who it was, it said this to me, but they said, like, most mental health maladies are both underdiagnosed and overdiagnosed at the same time. There's people who don't have it saying they do, and there's people who do have it that don't know that they do. And, like, those two groups don't, the Venn diagram isn't actually that big of how much crossover. Yeah, so I feel it's almost like a cop out sometimes, but like if you generally, if you do have it, then more power to you,

But it's interesting people are putting it on dating apps. I didn't, I mean. Maybe with love on the spectrum being so big, they're like, this is my end. I do love love on the spectrum. That's one of my favorite shows ever. It's unreal. But like the passion behind anybody on that show is like, oh, I only care about dragons.

Like, well, what about a girlfriend? They're like, you're not a dragon. Shut up. And then the mom has to be like, no, you need to get married. And then the guy would be like, well, does she like dragons? Yeah, yeah, yeah. James is a great guy on there. they all have swords

and you know and dude they're making alcohol drinks they're driving cars I'm like dude these guys are living the life yep not that I didn't think

they couldn't do either of those but I mean I like love their passion behind it one of the interesting lines on this was how did we get to a stage where neurotypical men feel comfortable enough

to make jokes about wanting an autistic girlfriend on apps like hinge so you have a problem here If you said, I like autistic girls, that's you fetishizing neurodivergence. But if you also put no autists, that's you being exclusionary. That's racism right there. I don't know. I think you're just not allowed to really have an opinion on it.

It's like if you're pro, if you say, I like big girls, you're fetishizing, like, fat. And if you say, like, no, faties. Well, you're saying to Drake. there it is there it is you just did a Toronto show that's a callback but it was his birthday

the night that we were there oh wow it was my show Drake's thing and vibes cartel all on the same weekend the night before the Blue Jays play the biggest I mean

some say the biggest weekend that Toronto's ever had it is and you still sold it out yep still sold it that's beautiful thankfully I listed it a long time before any of that mission right before they got in the World Series

of course I really wanted to go to Drake's birthday or Vives Cartel or the World Series fucking tickets to go see Chris Williamson, I might as well get my money as well. Anyways, if you have, what were you saying? You're saying if you only like one thing.

Basically, if you say that this is a preference of mine, you often get accused of fetishizing what that thing is. And if you say that you don't want that thing, then you're being exclusionary. Right. Right. Like the best example of this is the body positivity stuff, which is like, I like big girls is fetishizing fat, but no faties is you excluding people who are, like of a bigger size.

It's really hard to win. So what do you just play in the middle or you just don't? Well, I don't know. I think that you can't win. I think ultimately, ultimately you can't win. Initially jokes about tism Riz started as a social media trend.

Rism with the tism. I have seen that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Within the neurodivergent community to describe how their traits have gamed their romantic interests. I think that you might be onto something with the love on the spectrum. Yeah. I think that that might be. Well, honestly,

you watch a show and they find such love. that like maybe there's people watching that who resonate with them a little bit where they go like, oh, I'm awkward and shy in dates too. Am I autistic? You know, it's not a one for one. And they're not saying like that's cultural approach, like neurodivergent cultural appropriation. It was just the meme community has taken over it. And it's like Risen with Atism is a funny line.

But like there's also people out there who are severely autistic and the thought of a date makes them panic and sweat. But then there's a guy or a girl on hinge being like, oh, I'm nervous. I can't make eye contact. No, you're just chronically online and you don't have human interactions often. Yeah. You haven't seen a person in a few months. Right.

I mean, I just think that the meme community is kind of taken over. This is like the first, and what would you call autism? Because it's not a disease. What would you say? This is like the first, what would you? It's like a neurodivergent profile. But it's like kind of the first human condition. condition that has been really memed and everyone's like...

People aren't doing the same thing with HIV. Correct. Yeah. Yeah, what would that be? Rism with the Hivom? Yeah, I was trying to think. Get laid with the AIDS. I don't know. Charlie Sheenson seems to be doing pretty well. Yeah.

He's crushing it. He's doing great. Do you watch that documentary with him? I did. Dude. I thought that was one of the best things. that I've seen. That story at the very beginning where he's absolutely hammered and the pilot the pilot. Hey, come and sit down. Wouldn't it be funny if I put your uniform on? Wouldn't it be

funny if I did? It's like, honestly, he was one step away from. Wouldn't it be funny if we just like, you know, blew each other? I thought you were going a different direction. I thought you're going more New York with that. But yeah, one thing I, yeah, I mean, like, watching that documentary was so cool. I love watching just like the upbringing of people's success stories. Like, I used to, in college, going, like, every famous person I admire. It's, like, Wikipedia. And I would just be like, how did they get from A to B to C to, like, how did they become

who they are? And I'd be fascinated. So seeing all this and finding out that Charlie Sheen was a nepo baby, blew my mind. I'm like, oh, your dad was a famous actor? You're best friends with, you know, the guy, grown up. I'm like, dude, you had no choice but to be an actor. Sean Penn. Sean Penn.

Yeah. Yeah. So, but I mean, all bits aside, I thought it was really cool. just like watching his upbringing and how he got like what he got offered karate kid or something yeah and he'd already made some commitment yeah and you've got to stick to your word with this thing and i don't know i mean charlie sheen is a really good example of someone who he i mean he says it himself basically he learned the lesson that actions don't have consequences that he can kind of do whatever load torpedo the situation and usually end up

not only landing on his feet, but landing on his feet like three fucking levels high than he was previous. Yeah, he was failing forward in a lot of this. Correct. Where, and that's what all of his co-stars would say. It's like he would get on this like crazy rehab path, bounce back and then come back even more famous than ever. I'm thinking about picking up Kratum is what I'm trying to say. You know, I feel like I'm like, you know, I need. I need.

Yeah, I need something. How do I sell at Madison Square Garden? Let me get a needle. There's got to be one in this garage. Yeah, I think it's fascinating seeing somebody who, how hard do people work, like, you know, you with how obsessive you are about bits and drilling your sets and working and then we're going to, you know, release it at this date and a social campaign to build up and do all the rest of this stuff in a desperate attempt to try and gain little 1% here and now, even half percent, you know, like if you think, how many shows would you reckon that you do, including spots, would you do over a 12-month period from like special to special? Oh, damn. 200, 300? I mean, just this past week, I did nine sets.

And that was over two nights. Five shows, one night, four shows on Saturday. Tuesday, five, Saturday, four. Which I'm fortunate enough to be able to do because all the comedy clubs in L.A. are incredible. And I've just been working at it for, you know, a decade. And they're like, all right, cool. You're one of our regulars. Anytime.

Yeah, whenever you need, we got you. Here's this. so I can kind of time it out where I'm doing a show of the laugh factor, then I go to the comedy store, then I go to the improv, then back to Lafactor for the late show. And it's like, I've got it all dialed in, but I love doing that. I say the sets in town are like gym reps. And then on the road is when you're out there doing the Iron Man and all that.

So in a year, I mean, I really wish I had an answer. It could be like 500. Yeah. Almost certainly would be if you're doing this. There's definitely more than there is days in the year. Right. Okay. So let's say the.

do like 400, right? You keep it on a lot. So, and you need to get 60 minutes by the end of a year. So you're talking about like not far off, what's that, like 15 seconds a night is what you're developing. Oh, I see what you're saying. Right. So it's such a tiny proportion of the overall thing. Each individual rep contributes this like weenie, weenie, weenie, a bit. And then you have somebody like Charlie Sheen, who just seems to maybe by virtue of his talent, or time. I don't think it's timing because you'd say, oh, he timed the market, it's coincidence, whatever.

You can't do that for a whole career. You can't write off fluke and chance and coincidence for a four decade, five decade career. Like, that's impossible. So I'm just, I'm kind of fascinated by people who, if you were to take the headlines of how they've behaved, should not have ended up being particularly successful. Like you should have Kamikaze Harry carried your own career like seven times over by the age of 40. I think it's buzz meets talent. The buzz of the headlines where you're like, who is this guy?

Because if you see he's out of rehab, you're going to want to watch his first show back. You're going to want to watch the first episode, be like, dude, how is this guy? And then you flip it on and he's an incredible actor. And you're like, oh, I guess he still got it. And then it's rotation of always being in the news, whether it's for parting too hard, whether it's for dating somebody's too famous or going to rehab. That first episode out, the more you're in the headlines, the more your name is just relevant. And then when that show or the movie drops, you're like, dude, it's fucking Charlie Sheen. He's a party.

I got to watch this guy. So it's kind of like he's staying relevant even on the screens and off the screens. And you're just fascinated by his life. There's certain people that I look forward to watching their Instagram stories because I know they're clinically insane. And I go, this is going to be good. Live a King. I don't follow him anymore. I don't know if I ever did.

I haven't for a while. It's been a couple of years since I watched it. He made me uncomfortable. But, oh, dude, I mean, yeah, he, I would imagine has good stories. Well, have you seen him recently? It's like a descent into what appears to be meth-fueled, like insanity. Oh. Absolute insanity.

Is he still going? He's still, like, because he went to Austin. He got arrested for bringing a gun saying he was going to fight Joe Rogan. And then, yeah, it's actually kind of uncomfortable. It's like uncomfortable. But that's kind of the charleston. has seen an approach because that first podcast back he did. Yeah, so.

But he's also, yeah. What you saw with Charlie that I think is like a really cool lesson here, it worked as long as ultimately the thing that he did was good. But then when he did the live tour that was a mess and he was still a mess and he was in the middle of his Tiger Bloods like, you know, winning era and they tracked him around that outside of the shows. I'm sure that some people enjoyed it, right? because they just wanted to be in the aura of Charlie Sheen.

But a lot of people outside, like, that was the worst thing I've ever seen in my life. That was a total catastrophe. You waste of money, overpriced, under-delivered, da-da-da-da. So this lesson that I've seen for ages is people will forgive pretty much anything as long as you're still good at the main thing that you do. If Kanye drops an absolute fucking slammer of a next album, people will still listen to it.

weird way, it kind of forgives tons of the sins that he's committed. Does that make sense? Yeah. Whereas if he falls off, all of the criticism personally, privately, culturally gets legitimized. Stays at the top. Yes. Through his like lack of professional success. But I think we just, we revere talent and success so much that we're just happy to forgive. pretty much anything, as long as someone is kind of good at what they do. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I, as a man who put a Kanye song on my Spotify, recently, like, this doesn't feel good.

It doesn't feel good. But, you know, he's also just, like, clinically, like, insane. Like, that's what I don't like when the media will, like, film him and be like, Kanye, crash. I'm like, yeah, he's fucking off. The rocker, he's insane. Britney Spears in 2007. Correct.

Correct. Brittany's seen with a new haircut. She's schizophrenic. She shaved her head and she has an umbrella. It's 98 degrees outside. Like, I don't like when news articles post that. Like, it's, like, they're not insane. Like, oh, Kanye is having a weird day.

He's fucked in the head. Yeah. It's just like, it's crazy that we just film everybody doing this. And then, like, who's actually helping these people? That's a good point. because if it was somebody, well, I mean, I was going to say if it was somebody that was going through a drug addiction, that wouldn't be tracked. But then you look at Kate Moss, you look at Pete Dockedy from back in the day, you look at Amy Winehouse. The downfall of talented people, the potential downfall and basically kind of like watching a car go toward another car and going like, are they going to hit? Is that going to happen? Or are they going to be able to miss it and then turn around and then they go again and then, whoa, oh, you can fix them, so on and so forth. It is more amusing to watch. And listen, there's thousands of people that probably try to help Kanye on a day-to-day basis.

But to your point, it is more interesting to watch somebody, like the car crash analogy. Are they going to land this plane? Are they going to – Is Kanye going to figure this one out or is he going to release a new album and it's all in German? Featuring Elon Musk. Have you interviewed Elon? No, not yet. We considered, we were talking to his team a little while ago, I think, is that a busy period of the last 12 months?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's naming his kids' QR codes and shit. Listen, I'm Jewish, so he, those two guys are pressing my people. Well, you say that, but you added him to your Spotify. We should cut to an ad. In other news, I've been drinking age one every morning. You tried to fastball me that. That was down the plate, and I've just Shohayotarni did. I've been drinking AG1 for as long as I can remember. It is the best all in one drink that I've ever found,

and that's why I'm such a fan of them. And that's why I partnered with them as well. I have got my mum to start taking it, my dad to start taking it, and all of my friends as well. And if I found anything better, I would switch, but I haven't. Why do you keep throwing it at the mic? Stop throwing it at the mic. See? Anyway, over 75 vitamins, minerals and whole food source ingredients. It's got probiotics and prebiotics. It's all. Also NSF certified, meaning that even Olympians can use it. And in the throat. In the throat.

How dare you? I hit the... I hit the... Oh, fuck all. Ah! Ah! This isn't even an ad read anymore. It's just a war zone.

Oh, okay, okay. Anyway, if you too want something to throw at your friends or a tasty blend of 75 vitamins, minerals, probiotics, and whole food sourced ingredients designed to drink first thing in the morning in one scoop. It's here. Go to drinkage1.com slash modern wisdom. For stuff, I thank you. But you know, Connie was only a feature on the song. It wasn't as full. It was his song with Rick Ross, devil in a new dress. I mean, have you heard this song? Rick Ross's verse carries

the whole thing. Okay. And back from the commercial break. I don't care. Keep it all in. Pull the fucking ejector seat button. I don't care. Keep it in. I need to talk about how much you drink Celsius. Let's talk about it. Yeah, it's too much. Do I drink a lot of it? You talk about it.

It's your go-to. It's like the canonical, I need caffeine. I talk about this drink, drink. We got a cease and desist from a large energy company because of something that my co-founder said, the co-founder for this thing. What did they say? They said that we made...

wings? They may have said that. What he said was this, and we have this, like, I'm going to, it's printed off and framed. Like, as is seen in Exhibit 9.3.2, your, Mr. Smith said that our clients drink, quote, tastes like piss and is, quote, consumed by chronic masturbators. Are we still talking about the insult guy? Anyway, I want to get you off. Please. Yeah.

So many of these. Yeah. You need more. You need something. Yeah, Celsius. I mean, it's just like the energy during game is, I mean, dude, they're super charging. They're spike in Panera lemonade. What's that?

Do you know Panera bread? You don't know Panera bread? Holy shit, you're rich. Panera bread is like a French subway. Do you know what? Do you know subways? I went into one. Panera, so they put out this like lemonade, double-charged lemonade.

It has 400 milligrams of caffeine. Okay. Was this something that I killed kids? Yes, yes, yes, yes, I have seen that. I don't know if it was kids, but it did kill two people. Okay. Which. That's America.

Correct. I mean, they were going to die from that broccoli, cheddar cheese soup anyways. And to the families of those people, I'm sorry, but I mean, I think they got a refill. I think that's where it was. You could have unlimited refill. So they had like 800 million. I believe so. Well, it shows it's tasty.

Yeah. If you're going to consume two big gulps of that, also. So not rich, British, there's a difference. Okay, we have Greggs. You're familiar with Greggs? Who? Gregs. What is that?

Gregs is a bakery in the UK. It makes probably the best sausage rolls on the planet, some may say. Is there a competition for that? Kind of. The UK is basically split into north and south. North is Gregg's. South is Prettamongue. And that's kind of like the...

I think Pretta Monge is in this drink. Okay, so there's a pig in a blanket? Kind of. We call it America. They do that sort of stuff. Yeah, really? No, sausage roll would be wrapped in pastry rather than like, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And it's a sausage? Yes. I give it from the name? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. But, uh, certainly. What's that? Panera bread.

Penera bread. But like the energy, I mean, I remember when Red Bull came out, it was like revolutionary. In sixth grade, this kid, Josh Fleming took a sip of one at a bowling alley. And I remember he took one sip and started sprinting. Like, it was very performative. And we're all in sixth grade. We were like, why, this is just crazy. amounts of caffeine. And you thought he was black because you're colorblind. I was colorblind. And he,

fun fact, is Korean. But he is black. He is mixed. I believe his dad is black. But we thought 98 grams of caffeine was crazy. And now Celsius is 200. But now there's drinks out there with like 300 and 400. And it's what's the barometer? I think a cup of coffee is like 120. We need to ask Huberman. Huberman. Huberman's in later on. We can ask him. Oh, you're going for me to Huberman, that's great. Yeah, correct. I mean, the, the amount of brain cells, you're losing a bunch of brain cells and you're gaining a bag with Huberman, then you're leaving this studio leveled.

You seem like a pretty positive guy overall. Think? I'd say so. I mean, I don't know how much of it is, you know, comedic persona versus sort of genuine disposition, at least in my experience, like having spent a good bit of time around comedians, most people's comedic personas are just kind of like a tuned up version of who they are. Very few of them are a total U-turn, like someone who's crazy extroverted and outgoing on stage, but it's like doesn't have any of that energy internally.

Because I don't think that the depth of insight, I don't think that people would be able to get that. Jimmy Carr is a great example of this. Like Jimmy is just more Jimmy on stage and less Jimmy when he's in private. But I see a good bit of sort of cynicism on the internet. And a good few reasons to be cynical. There's lots of stuff that's hard and fucking people have got bullshit jobs and neurodivergence and the world's going to shit and all this stuff. I'm interested in whether that positivity or how you combat cynicism, even in the world of comedy. Like there's a lot of cynicism, backbiting, like, drama-y stuff.

And I just think it's a, like that kind of resilience seems to be pretty good for you. As long as I'm working, I'm pretty happy. I find happiness in work. I find happiness in being productive. where I get down in my head is when all this work I'm doing feels like it's for nothing. When I hit a streak and there's a streak of videos that are all eating shit. But I'm working so hard and it's not doing well. That's when I can really, that's when my like, you know, toxic trade is I hone in only on that week.

I don't look at anything else I've done. I don't look at any other accomplishments or any other videos I go, but these four videos in the past week ate shit. Does that mean I'm shit? and I get super in my head about that. But now it's like, and kind of catch that and go, okay, well, you're probably overworked because this didn't bother you in the past. It's like, okay, well, when was last time I got any exercise?

When was I someone to the gym? When did I do anything for myself to get out of this rut? So that's when I can kind of like catch it. But as far as positivity, it's like, I just love what I do so much that by doing this, it's, I'm living my dream every day. So it's like, why wouldn't I be happy? The times I get mad is when I'm on some bullshit general meeting with Tobe and they're like, so, what's your show idea? Fuck you.

How about that? Because it's not going to happen. I'm going to pitch a show. You're going to give your shit notes. I'm going to give my notes. And then it just stays in this rut for hours. I love the internet because I can have an idea right now. I can leave here, film it, upload it, connect my people.

And like there's no middle ground. There's no gatekeeper. No, there's so many gatekeepers in the industry. and I just feel like creativity is a rare feeling and you have to strike on when it hits. And what's funny today might not be funny tomorrow. Might not be funny in a year. Might not be funny in five years,

10 years, whatever it is. So when creativity hits, it's a blessing and you can't block it. You can't. If you're feeling creative, make that video. If you don't be like, well, I'll make it tomorrow morning and have more free time. It's like, no, because you're going to get to the next morning

and you're going to be like, what was that? How did I end that again? What was the job? And you're not going to feel that spark. So when you're hitting this creativity, that's like, that's your sign. That's the creative gods being like, go, go make this, go make this.

And where I found the stress to be is I'm like, hey, guys, I'm feeling this creative energy. Let's do this thing. I'm going, well, we can't touch you out with it. There's red tape. You can't do it when you want. Here's some bureaucracy. Exactly.

So I don't know how I got on that. That's perfect. There's an idea from Naval Radical. You say, inspiration is perishable. Act on it immediately. Yeah. Same thing.

And I've had those moments where I get an idea and I love the idea. And I go, I need to shoot this. I need to shoot this. And then I sit on it and then, you know, I open my phone one day and then somebody makes an idea like that. And I go, I had that idea.

I should. And then you like want to mess that person. Dude, I had that idea too. And they're like, okay. You didn't ship it. Didn't see it. Yeah.

And I've also sat on videos that I didn't edit. I shot them. I didn't edit them. I didn't get them done. And then somebody does the same thing. And I go, oh, I should have. But I didn't. So one of the most common question,

there's a Q&A thing at the end of the live show. And one of the most common questions, that people are asking is something to the effect of I'm 23 and I'm working real hard at this job that I do or this career that I'm in or this business that I'm building. But I know that work-life balance is kind of important and I don't want to I don't want to waste all of my time not like being present or like being mindful or whatever it might be. And one of the issues with that. that I see is a lot of the people who have a platform, like a big enough platform to be able to talk about

how they got to the place that they're at. Let's say it's Rogan or Tom Segura or yourself or whatever. Most of the guys are a little bit older than you are. And by that point, they are in the work-life balance mode. They are talking about, I like to spend time with my kids, and this is important. But that's not how they got there. Right, right, right, right, right.

So the rule is model the rise, not the result. Ooh, I like that. So do we put that on a shirt? model arise not the result because if you ask somebody like how did you get to where you are a lot of the time people talk about what they do now yeah yeah not what they did when they were at your stage my point is when people say i'm 23 i'm crushing it at this thing but i think i should do work life balance i think they're taking the wrong message for the wrong time and what you're saying here is you have the freest discipline ever because it doesn't take any discipline for you to go and do nine spots in two nights It's just obsession, right? So if you think about obsession, discipline, and motivation. So motivation is I want to go and do the thing. Discipline is I tell myself to go and do the thing.

And obsession is I can't not do the thing. Right? So it's like you're being ripped forward by this. What I'm seeing, to try and tie this a fucking big mess I've made up into a bow, people who are obsessive are basically questioning, should I purposefully not use all of this free fuel that I'm getting to try and make some shit happen in the world in order to do the work-life balance thing.

What they don't realize is that obsession will wane over time. That is going to be a sort of depreciating fuel source. I'm like, dude, this is the freest motivation and discipline that you're ever going to get because you literally can't not do the thing. So you might as well just completely fucking like send it. Take a flamethrower to the candle. Like forget burning it at both ends. kind of the same way that you are.

Because in 10 years' time, maybe, it's going to be tougher for you to, like, force yourself to do nine sets in two nights. Right. Maybe you can't. Maybe you've got restrictions or responsibilities or some other bullshit going on. Correct.

And you think, fuck, I wish I'd really sent it when it was there, when the fuel source was free. And also, that's when you accumulate the skills that allow you to kind of ride the wave going forward because you do have to earn your keep. You've got to accumulate the skills and the talents and the experience. You go, I might as well do that again when it's freest, easiest, et cetera, et cetera.

So yeah, this obsession thing, obsession, motivation, discipline I've been playing with for a while. And I think it relates at least a little bit to what you're talking about. Yeah, sorry, I just heard an airplane and I'm severely autistic. No, I totally agree. And I mean, as I'm a sucker for a motivational podcast quote, I'm a sucker for anything that kind of sparks that. And the overarching thing you see in a lot of these is like, just start. but so many people go like well what if that's not my passion all right fuck it don't do it oh what if i don't like then don't like try all these things the amount of different types of

videos i tried before i found like what my own voice was very similar to stand-up i think everybody starts stand-up with their favorite comedians in the back their head influencing how they write you know i first started i thought i thought i could write like bill burr i'm like i'm not a guy from boston i i don't i'm not him i'm nowhere near anywhere near as good as this guy and like but you watch and your influence and then you like chisel away and you go okay well now i'm watching more of this guy and then now i'm watching some of her and then you like kind of just form so over time you find what your passion is you find your voice and it's just about the journey so going back to what you were saying with the rise of it it's like i put everything aside when i was coming up

because i couldn't wait to be done by nine to five when i'd be done by nine to five at five p.m. I would drive to an open mic and go do that. So week, weekdays was open mics and then Saturday I'd shoot a sketch, Sunday had posted. Or, sorry, Saturday I'd shoot it, Sunday, at it, Monday had posted. And that was every week. That was my, that was when it was slower. This was pre-vertical videos. This is horizontal.

This is when YouTube. What platform is this? YouTube. Right. This is like 2017 to 2019. This was like right before kind of pandemic when everything started taking off vertically. Vertically, it's a new, it's a new game. Like, when I got in, one video a week was like,

good. That was like fine. And I was like who one sketch a week. And now, dude, now it's like I'm, I'll talk to my like Instagram or TikTok raps and like yeah, I used to be posting like three to four times a day. That sounds annoying. That's too much. So it's a different ballgame getting

in now. But there's also less care about production. There's less care about I say that when there's 19 cinema cameras around me. There's less care. I think if I posted a clip of you saying something on my iPhone and then just one of use from this camera, there's just as good of a chance that the iPhone. I think the iPhone won't.

It might. But in when people are watching more long form content, they're going to want this camera, they're going to want to the sound. But, you know, everything on my page is either shot on an iPhone or like a cinema camera or like it's always constantly changing. All up below a sketch from a ring camera. And I'm being

dead serious because I just want to switch it up. I just want to try everything. I'm constantly... But you could just use SORA for that. Apparently the fucking... That's the ring. It's getting close. Yeah. It's getting close. I've tried to use it a few times, and it's like, I'm such a hands-on guy when it comes to editing that I want to be like...

Do you still edit your own stuff? No, but I'm just hands-on with it. Like I meet with my editors. Like the shoulder of, yeah. Yeah, I meet with my editors a lot. And I'm just like, there'll be times a lot. I'm giving notes over my computer. My editor lives like 10 minutes from me.

Shout out John, the best guy in the biz. And I'm like, dude, just come over. It's 1am. And we're like, just trim that one word right there. And just come super hands-on with it, which is a blessing and a curse. I think it slows down production a little bit. because I won't post it because I'm like, well, you misspelled this.

Or I just, I wish it opened on this frame right here. So some people are like, you know, make your sacrifices and be like, I just post it. Now I can focus on something else. But I'm the guy who's up at, or crack a dawn or like three in the morning, like just trying to chisel away at something because I'm like, this is how it should be. Before we continue, if your sleep's been off, taking ages to fall asleep, waking up at random times or feeling groggy in the morning, Momentus's sleep packs are here to help. They're not your typical knock you out supplement,

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Plus, they ship internationally. Right now, you can get 35% off your first subscription, and that 30-day money-back guarantee by going to the link in the description below. Are heading to live-momentus.com slash modern wisdom. That's live-momentus.com Modern wisdom. winning in the weeds with stuff like that. It's interesting that you said the sort of dark sides and light sides to that. It's amazing when it comes to refining a bit down. There's this great video of Mark Norman talking about the,

I met a girl on that Jewish dating app, what's it called PayPal. And it's a video of him from when he first has the idea, and he sat in his car. And then it, I don't know what, I don't think he has a video guy that follows him all the time, but he must have done for this. Yeah, I can do documentary. iterating and iterating and iterating and he like tried Venmo and he tried like cash app and

tried PayPal and on the timing and everything and you watch the you know whatever it is 15 seconds per night change like slowly incrementally over time and um that is another type of obsession you can't not do it I can't not think about this joke I can't not think about this podcast I can't not think about for me some of the ideas I've got I just going to bed trying to fucking get my brain to chill out. I can't. I'll be laying there. Roll over to my notes have.

My eyes are close. But that's part of the obsession. Yes. Because I'm like very, very staunch with phone can't be in bedroom. My solution for this has been, I leave my AirPods out of the case on the bedside table next to me. And then I put them in and it goes, but ding. I go, tomorrow 10 a.m. Remind me an unteachable lesson is you should lie in a hammock more or whatever.

But then it tries to transcribe it. And I wake up the next day. And at least 50% of the time, it's fucking gibber. Yeah, you should lay in a hamcock more. And you're like, is that what they're selling at Greggs these days? I'm like, oh, fuck. But anyway, like, you're right. And I think it's brilliant and is lauded, quite rightly so, seeing someone that's a craftsman.

But I love it, yeah. The guy that owns this place, you know, it's evident that he really fucking cares about the cars and he's tinkering with him working out. Like, isn't that fucking cool? But also. When you try and have that in your private life, no? Sorry, what was in? The battery's dead. For the, just for the Ferrari.

Yeah. It was in Ferris Bueller. I don't know that. It's mine. That obsession stuff is great in your professional life, but really shit in your personal life. Awful. It's like, I've told everyone I've ever dated, I'm like, I don't think it's fun dating me. Because it's like, I just love work so much that it, like, it's hard for me to be really present.

everything I'm doing, even when I'm not working, I'm working. I'm watching a show. We're at dinner. It's like I was at a lunch yesterday with my girlfriend and this high school couple starts arguing next to us

and I immediately pull up my notes at. And I go, okay, what's the end on this? What's your name? But she's great too and she's very funny and she's also like, okay, what if you write this down? What if you'd? So I'm always on. But if you see it as not like

disrespect of you and you're like, dude, this is how his brain works. Then I think it's fun. Then everyone can. get in on it. Oh, she's in on it. Oh, she's great. Yeah.

Like, for instance, a couple of my friends that, uh, fewer writers, I live with one of them, George. And, uh, he'll see shit that's amazing, but just not quite right for him. Mm-hmm. And I just get, I, it must be like going out and partying with Dan Bilsarian back in the day. They're like, trickle-down effect. Yeah. Of being around him.

There's a blast radius of like good shit that he's ready to do. This story from Winston Churchill, I can't use it, but it's going to fucking destroy on the pod. So he'll send me stuff in the same way. Or we'll be out at dinner and I'll be, I'm trying to think that I'm trying to work this idea out. I think there's something that it's like obsession, motivation, discipline. Oh, well, why don't we, you know, we'll come up with the name for it. We can do this. That's sick. I love it. But if it's like, I should be obsessed over which frame this particular cut needs to be in to make it maximally funny or whether it's PayPal or Venmo or cash app and I

need to refine this little piece down. But if it's trying to like optimize your relationship or pay too much attention, be obsessive about your relationship in a way that's like, Ryan Long taught me this, that we love and lord in ourselves, like the attention that we pay and the amount of detail, like the resolution, we're like, oh, wow, I'm so locked in. You want to be able to turn it off when it comes to, like, your relationship with your parents, but that's not the way it works. You don't get to compartmentalize. I feel not like myself when I turn it off. When I'm, like, being too serious or talking to anybody and I'm like, I'm not being my true self. I'm like, this is boring.

Like, when I feel like I have, like, downplay it, like, I had a meeting to write a will. like my dad's like you need to stay playing you need a right of will I mean I was in that I wanted to be like kill me now like this is the I don't care I'm dead I don't give a shit I guess well do you want to be an organ donor

and there's levels of the organ donor they can like gouge your eyes out I don't care I don't care I want to upload a video that might bomb I just want to be anywhere but here and it's so serious and it's so boring and I'm just like is this how you

there's no fun in this office the sterile lighting we have a cure in the court if I hear another cure of coffee I put a gun in my mouth. I just, I can't, like, anybody that takes away from me be wanting to be me, I'm like, this is miserable.

This is not what I want to be. That's why stand-up comedy is like, the most beautiful form of entertainment in the world. It's like, it's just, you're just, there's really no limitations on it. You can just be yourself. And I have to blind myself up there because I don't want, you know,

the thought of, you know, if I see someone in the front row with their arms crossed, you know, now I'm in my head. Now it's like chipping away at like being myself, but I just love stand-up so much because you could just be yourself and you're not like trying to form to like something where I like hate is like just a small talk at like a wedding or just small talking in general. I'm like, I'm not going to give you my personality.

I'm not, I'm just like, eh, it just feels like so ping pong back and forth. So boring. Anything I can do to not be in that. And whether it's I'm I'm constantly just talking to myself. because that's where I know I can bounce ideas off myself. Instead of like, we're talking to some random guy at a wedding, I'm like, oh, what's funny? I'm writing down myself.

Because I can be funny to myself and I can, like, talk to myself. It's cool to enjoy the landscape of your own mind and to be like, oh, I don't have anything to do. On a plane and the Wi-Fi is broken. Dude, I love being alone for that reason. This is cool. I can actually sit with my thoughts and I know that I'm not going to get distracted and I can do a little bit of... Dude, I come up with the most ideas when I respond myself. either in conversation with people or it's like I usually travel with a few people for shows and whatnot,

but like if I'm doing a college gig, I'll just fly out by myself. There's no glitz and glams. Like I show up to Rowan University in Philadelphia by myself. I do that. I get out of there. But those like 48 hours of traveling by myself, I mean, that's when I'm thinking about the most stuff because so much my day is on meetings or calls or talking to people doing stuff, giving notes on editing. I'm never really truly alone.

And even when I'm alone at home, I'm tired from the full day. So when I'm just like on an airplane by myself, like you said, and the Wi-Fi's out, or, you know, that's when I'm like, whoa, I haven't tapped into my own thoughts in a while. What's going on? What's funny to me? Nothing is funnier than I love making myself laugh where it's like, I'm just at the airport and I see somebody just doing something so bizarre. And I'm like, I wish I had somebody to tell it to it to, but instead I'm like, oh, what's funny here? And I like almost like having this conversation with myself to find the funny. This is something that, another question that comes up at the live shows is,

how do you retain what you learn? I'm not particularly good at it. I think I've just, like, been exposed to a lot. You'll be episode 120 of the show or something. So even if I took, you know, 1% from every episode, it's still tons of stuff. I think one of the things that people struggle with that you've identified there is, if you don't have an outlet, there is very little motivation for, why you're looking for stuff.

You're not scavenging for ideas if there isn't some publish that's happening. Right. If you're not going to turn it into a song or draw it in an illustration. Some expression. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or talk about it on a podcast or write about it in a blog post or put it on stage for a comedy special or whatever. Like if you don't have a reason to do it, for the most part, you're probably not going

to be as motivated to really, really seek this stuff out. And I think it's a good, I couldn't agree more about the, no gatekeeper frictionless thing. That's why substacks so great. Like nobody needs to understand how to build a website or have a lead magnet or a fucking capture form. It's like social media blogging.

Go on. I have an idea. And if it's good, there's an ecosystem of people there that will go, this is great. And they'll reshare it. And now you're a writer. You're like, nobody stops you from being a writer anymore.

You can be a writer like tomorrow. Yeah. But if you don't have some sort of an outlet, and this is one of the sort of commonalities that I've seen with people that ask like, how do I retain what I learn or how do I find better ideas or whatever it might be? It's like, well, have you got a reason for it other than just I want to have better ideas? It's like because I want my blog to be better on my podcast or my music or my drawing or my

illustrations or my fucking comedy. Oh, well, if you've got that, that's going to be the North Star that you're going to be working toward. But without that, there's no reason when you're right. Because you feel like you're just kind of aimlessly shooting something or recording something or writing something. You're like, what is this for, though? Yeah.

Or maybe you're not even recording it or writing it. or shooting something. You're just like wanting to hold on to, I'm just going to be funnier around the water cooler or whatever. Like that's not, I think that's enough motivation. Yeah. Well,

yeah, I think oftentimes people settle. They go, well, that's good enough. Or they go, they immediately get shot down and they go, yeah,

but then where would that go? But then where would they like question their, they doubt themselves right out the gates. Like, ah, this is a good, uh, food recipe,

but who would want to read that? Who would want to, so it's like the self-doubt is so strong. And, I mean, I face that all, time too. It's like, you know, I pitch an idea to myself and I go, or even an idea, it's like, I want to do more stuff in the traditional side of things. And it's like, yeah, I really want to do

this show. But then I got to get a producer and director. And then so it's like, it doesn't even make it out. It makes it outside of my mouth, but that's about it. And it's like I shoot it down before I even have done it because I haven't done it. If you've made a TV show, every time you've made a show, it gets easier and easier. But since I've never made a TV show and only done like sketch, and stuff like that. To me, I'm like, yeah, but then I'd have to find a budget and then find out a good producer. But once you've done it a bunch, you're like, it's actually really easy.

It's actually like, I head up this person, that person, this person, that person, that person. It's actually quite straightforward. So when you haven't done it, it's easier to doubt it because you know doubt you don't know success. Am I cooking? Yeah, you are. Oh, shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's, and you were talking about knowing, like, what you retain from stuff, I heard somewhere

it's like your brain defaults to negativity because it's a safer place, even though the outcome isn't, but like it's a more familiar place and it is success. So it's like if you swing about 10 times and you miss nine, your brain just kind of thinking,

well, why would I step up to the mountain? I'm just going to miss. But that one out of 10, crank it out. So that's why I go. That's why I post videos because for that one out of 10. It's like that, like, that I think, like whatever, I think once you go viral,

it's like a blessing and a curse, because then it's like a drug. It's like when you go to casino and you hit a slot for the first time, I don't know what you guys call in the UK. Sloots, but when you hit the first time. Something else. Oh, there we go.

She's on your shirt. Just kidding. That's a nice lady. But I remember when I went to this casino when I was 18, it's, um, they give you a punch card or they give you like a $50 free card. And I think they load it up. I think it's rigged.

I mean, it's a casino. Oh, like that thing about, uh, TikTok where one in the first five things that a new account puts up will have a little bit of morality. Correct. Yeah. Because then you're, It's like I've never done heroin, but you know how they say you're chasing the dragon or whatever. It's like that with social media.

If you have a video hits a million views, it's almost like you can't even enjoy that million because you're quickly going like, what's, oh, what can I do next? What can I do next? And then, or you get in your head, you're like, well, the next thing I do isn't going to be as good as that. Now I get trapped. It's like I had this video in college. I was on Vine and I had this video to like 14 or 15 million like, what was it really? Vines, reloops.

I never watched it. I never used it. I forget what it's called. Whatever it is. Please. But I froze because I was like, I don't know what to make. I don't know what to make. Nothing I make is going to be as good as this.

All these new fans that are seeing this. Fans, I had like 10,000 on time. I was like, all these new people are going to see this and be like, ah, it's not as good as the last one. And I froze and I didn't do anything. And then I didn't post anything. And then the next video I did ate shit because I lost a little momentum. Yep.

So it's like, it. blessing and a curse type of thing where it's like fuck yeah all this video is doing great and then you're like how do I beat it that's not what you should be thinking you should be like how can I make something that I had that same passion for in that first video how can I find that same excitement

but you're chasing that so I think to the casino effect you get views and now you're like oh it's proof that I can do it how do I keep doing it but the problem is that has now set a standard that you can meet or that you can fail at meeting

Right. The very beginning of doing something is brilliant because it's all upside. Yeah. You can't eat shit. You haven't done anything before. So the higher that you climb, the further there is to fall. And I've thought about this, I've thought about this with the live stuff. So I'm in the middle of tour at the moment.

And, you know, this is the first America headline, America and Canada headline tour that I've done, North America, that's what you guys call it, right? Totally so, like, come double them together. So you don't have to go like. Yeah. It's the first one that I've done. and now I'm thinking, well, if I don't sell out the town hall in New York again next year, that means as opposed to being on the come-up and getting your first debut show in Manhattan to be 1,500 people, oh, that's, you've fallen off.

When there's so much else that also factors into it. Yeah, of course, the timing of when's the show, is it Drake's birthday and vibes cartel and the fucking world series happening at the same time on the same time? I mean, it's also every year you want, the economy is in a different place. And it's never in a great place, but it's definitely not... I started touring really heavy right out of the pandemic, and there were so many people that were like,

dude, we've been locked up for all these years. We want to go to something live. Holy shit, Trevor's finally coming to my town. We got to go. And those tickets flew off the shelf. I mean, like, I... Before I even left for the tour, I think 70% of the shows were all sold out.

And now I'm touring again, and I'm using those metrics on those shows. And I'm like, let's go bigger in those venues. And I'm feeling like, okay, we're taking some really big swings. Some cities like Toronto hit it. Right. Boom. Yeah.

What is it about the Canadian audience? They just wanted to buy shit straight away. We love you. They want to see how insane Americans are. They want to be like, is this Trump to actually really get with them? I don't know. But there's just certain markets. And you could talk to any comedian in the world or really entertainer.

There's just some markets. You just don't sell well. Chicago, I did 3,000. Milwaukee couldn't fill a 900 seat. room. Now, they're like an hour-ish from each other. Did that play into it? I don't know. Is there just, are more people from that area going to be like, well, let's drive to Chicago for a weekend to go to the big show, then it goes to this Milwaukee one. There's just so many factors in it. That sense, right? Oh, I've had to pull back. Yeah, of course. It's like, to your point,

I did the will turn twice on the size tour. What's that? It's in Boston, beautiful venue. And I, I'm doing it twice again on this tour, but there's definitely a thought when I put the first show on sale, like, if I'm only doing one, does that mean I'm not this as relevant? Or I did somewhere in Charleston, South Carolina, to start this tour off on tour right now,

at Trowwall's dot com. And I got there, and I saw my name on the stone because I performed there. And it said two sold out shows, but the last time I went there, the recent I only did one. And it's this weird, like, why can't I just be happy with one sold-out show still?

Because you're equating it to this. And it's the same, I'm hyper-fixating on one show, the same way I hyper-fixate on one video. It's tunnel vision where you're like... As opposed to three weeks ago, this one was a new record, or this one was just really great or... Yeah. Or the fact that when you were here last time,

it was out of a pandemic. You had a Saturday night. You had an 8 p.m. Now you're doing a Thursday at 7 p.m. And it's whatever is going on with it. But it's so hard. I was just talking about this yesterday for like an hour of like,

it's so hard to not equate the most recent thing you've done for work in any field as your whole worth, not just entertainment, any field. So true. It's like if this video flops, I feel like a failure, not counting that this year I've had videos that have done 30 million, 40 million views. I've done three movies.

I've done shows. I've opened for massive arena acts. And it's like, but when something is not working, that's all you are focusing on. I'm a piece of shit right now. Right now. Right now. I'm a piece of shit. And it's also like, but it's like all I hyper focus on.

It's the same thing with like a, like if a hate comment, you get 100 positive comments, you get one bad comment. You only start at that one comment. But also if a video is flopping, like in my barometer, I also think videos used to pop off way quicker back in the day, like early TikTok, 2019, what an era, bless that era. You could post a video and an hour later, I might have a million views. Like, it was like, it would pop. But now it's like, ah, this flopped. But, and now I'm in my head and I'm down bad. But a week later, I go, oh, that actually crept up to like 700,000 views. That's pretty good. Yeah. It like,

over time it grew. So now I'm like, looking at a seed in the ground, I'm like, why aren't you a tree yet? And I'm getting mad at myself because I'm not giving it time to find its audience. It's time to grow. That is the great thing about doing live that the feedback is immediate if what you've done is good. You know within 0.5 seconds if it's good. Stand-up comedy is the best form of entertainment and it's hands down for that reason. If stand-up, you got a response the same way the algorithm did, it would be like one person would laugh and then 30 people would laugh and then two and then 100. And then a week later, someone's like, ta-ha.

Like, it's so delayed that it almost takes the excitement out of it. That's why standup is so great because trying a new bit, you immediately know, like, that's good, that's bad. And then you get a pop on it, you go, boom, add it to the repertoire. And you do it on a second show and it doesn't get as good of a laugh. And you go, ooh, was this like a first, you know, was this a first bit kind of luck type thing? But then you're obsessed and you're fascinated. Oh, what did I do on the first show?

You listen to the audio back. What did I do on the first show that was different than the second show? Let me try it out of the third show. And that's where I get super like kind of like you're talking about with the marks up where you keep trying and tweak it. And you go, it worked on this show. So I know it is funny for a fact. Where do I find the funny? And then that's when I start doing like editing in my head.

I go, well, you know, this three minute bit really is just a big payoff at the end. Do I need this two minutes in the front or do I take this one minute and then actually tack it on to the fact of this old joke? So now you're like, that's where I love that. We start mixing to match in and nobody has any idea. and you're doing this in live time. That's the best to me. That's the obsession again, right? Yeah.

Like, that's what that is. And I do think there's a weird sort of beauty at the beginning of everybody's journey where the fact that there's no pressure on you means that you can just, ah, yeah. It's so easy. The bar is pretty low. Nothing's popped off yet.

I don't have any obligations. I don't have meetings with fucking Tooby and Spotify and all of this. You know, we love you too big. But there's just no, you don't do much of the stuff that isn't the thing. Because there's none of the ancillary bullshit. There's no hiring and firing and team management and fucking invoices. And like, oh, God, the show in Milwaukee's been moved because of such and such a thing.

So the whole rooting's got a change. It's like, no, I just go and do my little spots. And I like, just do the thing. I do the awful. I'm just writing on substack. Oh, well, now you've got a book deal. Oh, well, now you're going to have to like deal with the publisher and you've got timelines and you've got a research assistant you've got to manage the research assistant the research

assistant's going to go away for two weeks so you're going to get somebody else in but they're not as good and they're not going to be and you're like like I came here to do this thing and now I'm doing all of this stuff that isn't the thing I have so many more days sorry to catch you're always in no no that's it I have so many more days where I feel like I left my day job so I could do comedy full time like seven years ago and it's there's so many days where I'm more administrative more like sitting down at you're doing your day show yeah and i'm like dude i'll just be in the middle of like i'm like sitting there with my assistant i'm like she's like okay then you have a two o'clock you have a three 30 and then i'm like what for what all i want to do is make funny every meeting i take

takes away from the funny and there's so many days where i'm just doing all this admin shit and i go like can i just shoot a fucking tic talk and then i filmed that with the stressed out brain and then the video flops and we're down to the races yeah yeah so for me it's all about like finding those you can't create creativity, but you can set yourself up for creativity. So it's like, I might be like, okay, this Saturday I want to write. What are the things that make me feel good? So I could have a chance of getting creativity. Oh, that's good.

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morning and um it just working out like when those endorphins it's like like I'm pretty like in my head most of the day but like if I like work out and I'm like I've had a coffee and I'm and I'm by myself like I'm like walking around I'm like singing to myself I'm like that's we're on the verge of something well we're feeling good but for me it's like I can't structurally right where it's like okay you have a you have a two p.m. meeting and a three three 30 meeting. But at three you should write. I'm like, that doesn't work for me where I'm like, okay, work. You know, like, let me be funny.

Like, you can't force funny for me. Some people set hours every day that are like every day at 11, I write for an hour. And you're allowing yourself to be creative in those moments. But for me, it's like, I can't structurally do that. So when I'm having these days of all these meetings, instead of like, I'll be like, okay, guys, let's go to lunch. let's step out of this office. Let's kind of get reset.

Yeah, let's reset. Let's submerge. Let's be around some people. That's when ideas start flying up. For me, it's like, there's ideas everywhere. Whether it's, uh, fashion trend, somebody's wearing how somebody is talking to the barista or something. It's just like, but when I'm in this stress brain, it's like, it's almost like I have like,

do not disturb on for ideas where I'm like stress. It's like, like, all these ideas are right in front of me. But when I'm like relaxed or like kind of out of the work brain a little bit, like, like more like fun kind of stuff, it's so much easier for me to make these observations to make fun of, where if I'm stressed, I'm, there's funny all around me, but I'm not noticing it. It's so similar to what I do,

and not for the funny bit, but for the, oh, that's like two ideas that I haven't realized that come together. And I've been hearing a lot of people talk about obsession at the moment. Zach Pogrobs just started this new running club in New York, and it's all about obsession. And why, I did this bit about motivation and discipline, but I never wrote about it. I never published it.

So I wonder if obsession's a part of the motivation, discipline. But without, you're so right. If you're in admin mode, that stuff just, it can't penetrate at all. Mike Isretel did this really wonderful episode about rest ethic stuff with me.

Just fucking sick line, he says, you can't white knuckle creativity. Like, you can't fucking grip it like this and be like, hey, be creative. Right, right, right. Most things, you know, if it's answering emails,

you can kind of like white knuckle email answering. Of course. And you can white knuckle like fucking admin and responding to texts and, you know, like sort of low level executive function stuff, organizing your schedule or whatever, making phone calls. You can't do that with creativity because it kind of just like arrives and you've got to be sat back. Yeah. And there's days where I try to force creativity doesn't hit, whether I'm like tired. And I go, well, I got to just work out. Workout usually helps with creativity. And then I work out and I'm sitting and I'm trying to write or I'm trying to, come up with something and I'm just getting, I'm drawing blanks. And sometimes that's just the nature of the game. You can't create creativity. But you can try and you can maybe, instead of saying,

well, instead of figuring out a new TV show idea, how about I just take an old bit that I've been working on forever to see if there's anything new. It's like, you don't have to come up with your biggest idea then. You can still kind of like, like, okay, I'm not feeling as creative. What's, uh, old joke I've been doing? How can I punch that up a little bit? Or how can I just listen to some stuff back to kind of like put you in that right zone, but you're really right. It's you can't white knuckle through it. And that's why I think also setting alone time for yourself, me personally, is when, that's why so many people have so many creative thoughts in the shower.

Shower thoughts and toilet thoughts, dude. Shower, toilet, and also driving because you're just, you're not staring at a screen. You're zoned out. So finding those moments where even if I'm feeling not creative, I just go, let me just go to a mall. Let me just get out. Let me go get a, let me not make a car. coffee here. You're not going to be around people at a mall.

Let me go get, let me go get a coffee. Let me, instead of making one and it's not for the coffee, it's for the fact of like, well, what's out there? Change of him back. Creativity is like fishing. You're like, what's out there? If I go to a farmer's market, am I going to get any, am I going to catch anything? And you might think you have something.

You're like, oh, dude, look, what's this guy here? He's got like a weird, like, quilt on his head. What's this? You know, and you're like, you're trying to, you're, you're getting like sparks of creativity and you're looking around and, oh, is this, or is everyone around around, Birkenstocks, oh, is that a video idea? And you're, and, but you're just, you're piecing it together. You can't just sit at home and be like, what's funny?

What's funny? I mean, you can. You obviously can. But for me, I got to, I got to feel connected. I get to feel something. People will pitch me ideas all the time. And I go, like, I see why that's funny, but like, I don't have an emotional connection to it.

But then, you know, I get cut off by a cyber truck. And do you have one? No. No, of course not. Chris. You have the build of a guy who would have a cyber truck. truck. What is that? Give me the, give me the archetype of the cyber truck owner. You. Why? What's that? What is this? British. Austin, Texas. Okay. Well, the British thing,

I think, is a front. How long, you, you, you moved here from Dayton, Ohio. How long, and, what's your best American accent? Oh, there isn't one. Sorry, you can't get an American accent out of me. I can do lots of British accents, but you can do a British accent because it's an accent to you. That's true. Boom. Yeah, it is. USA. My Instagram bio is fake British accent. Perfect. Yeah. The, uh, the, uh, the, uh, uh, the, uh, uh, the, uh, uh, uh, the, The average cyber truck owner is a guy with a Patagonia vest. He's like a tech guy who got kind of like not the respect he wanted. Okay.

And a truck to him is too expensive to fill up the gas. And he goes like, I want to be the badass at work. But like I also want to be with the tech guy. They want to bridge the gap. Oh, okay. So it's like the midlife crisis sports car dude, but for the like iPhone 17 generation. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So there's a lot of compensation. So you're saying I'm compensating.

Correct. Okay. No, I'm not saying you're compensating at all. But you said you live in Austin, Texas. Sorry to docks you. What's your home address? But Austin, Texas is the hub of this. There's a lot of cyber trucks. So I could feel, what do you drive? Camaro, 6.2 liter V8 Camara. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Compensating still, just in a different direct, different fucking fuel source. Beautiful car. Beautiful car. I don't think you drive a cyber truck. But if you did, I would.

say, eh, but I, you got cut off by a cyber truck. It's like, I have to feel an emotional connection to the creativity and, I need a why.

I cut up by a cybershop, piss me off, why? And then I catch up and I see the guy and I go, well, that's why. It's this guy who got this car

and now he thinks he's some status guy. He thinks he's like elite. He thinks he's like futuristic. And it's like, then I, everything I make fun of isn't even about like, is that the genesis of the cyber truck bit? Did you get cut off by a cyber truck?

Yeah. Because you did a video about the cyber truck. Well, you know what it was is I was, I was in a, he had a cyber truck, right? And I was in it. And just like how he was like describing it. And he's like, yeah, it's got air conditioning. I'm like, yeah, of course it has air conditioning. Yeah, it's got a reverse camera. Every car.

Kia Sorrento has reversed. And how he was talking about it is like, it's just so futuristic. And I just was like, you're a different. person after getting this car. Well, yeah, but like, he just was a different person. Like, I think he had a three series before that. And then he gets this guy. And he's like this, now he's like a tech guy. And now he's like telling me about like the Dow Jones. I'm like, what do you know about any of this? So it's just like that persona. And then I kind of start seeing them everywhere. And then I go, dude, there's a kind of a theme. Every time you see a cyber truck, it's kind of in and around the same guy.

Yeah. So that's when I get excited. And that's when the mental editing comes up. And I go, like, okay, cyber trucks are very popular. This has great SEO online. People know about cyber trucks. I can make fun of this. What's the type of guy? I love making fun of a thing or like an object or like a car because now the shareability is crazy. Because then everyone goes, oh, this is just like John.

John, you have a cyber truck. Mark, you have a cyber truck. And it's like what's going to make people either share it because it's funny or share it because it's relatable to somebody they know? So for me, that's from my brain. I like love that when I like am on to something. go like, because sometimes I'm spitball and I go, ah, what about this car? No, what about this car? No. And then I, then like the cyber trick comes around and I can picture the like character I'd play with the video and I go, yes, yes. And it's like, it's like, I just, it just flows. When a good

idea connects, you might have one box unchecked, but for the most part, you're like, and it's going to dress like this and we can shoot it here and we can, and it like, it just, it has. You're not forcing it. Yeah, it has this like synchricity to it. Is that the right word? Synchronicity. Synchronicity. Sorry, I need to finish this drink. But it, like, you feel it come together. And there's jokes that I have that come to me so easy that I go, like, this has to be

somebody else's joke because this came to me so easy. But it's a, but it's an experience that happened to me. So I know it's not somebody else's. I mean, but it comes you so easy. You're like, this, is this like, this is just a blessing from the creative gods? Yeah. I mean, again, I have the most, uh, fucking. Playmobile, my first live show sort of equivalent of this.

But I know that in order to make the live show that I'm doing at the moment, the self-discovery show energized, there needs to be funny bits, not just at the start, which was to kind of like release tension to everyone. Because when I went in and the first version of the show that I did two years ago, there was no laugh. It was kind of like straight off the bat, straight into ideas. And people were 10 minutes in and there was tension in the room. Because they were like, am I supposed to laugh?

Do I clap? Like, do I, what do I, like, yeah, what do I'm supposed to do? So I'm like, okay, if we just fucking work the tension out in the room. Anyway, there's a bit, I'm using Lizzo as an example for people whose opinions and deeds are far apart. Like, online, people can say that they're real charitable, caring, philanthropic, you know, empathetic, whilst not actually having to do it because you're able to say a thing whilst doing something else. the distance between opinions and deeds has never been greater. I'm like Lizzo.

And this was, when I was in Australia, I was just talking about the fact that she was, you know, helping these bigger goals by pushing their careers and giving them a platform. And as I said that, I was like, presumably a structurally reinforced platform. And that's like one of the biggest out of nowhere bits of the night because people don't see it coming because I didn't see it coming. And I'm like, I just say the thing that I said because it came to my. mind while I was in fucking Melbourne or fucking Brisbane or whenever I was a year ago. And that's still a part of the set now moving forward.

So I'm like, oh, fuck, like that's really cool. So the fact that you feel like, oh, this was just given to me. Like, where the fuck did that come from? Dude, when I riff, I don't even, like, that's the funniest shit comes to me riffing on stage and I have no idea where it came from or in filming videos. This guy, Churdleys, who I've made so many videos with throughout the years, done a lot of sketch. It's like, there's just certain people

that bring the riff out of you, and there's certain crowds that bring the roof out of you. And when him and I would film videos together, it's like, we would go in there with like a premise of like, okay, we should make a video where, you know, here's the end goal

and how we get there is different. It's really kind of like Reno 911 and like Seinfeld, a lot of those shows or like how Larry David likes to shoot. It's like, just get to the end goal of you're mad at her because she did this. And then you just, when you were around the right crowds

or the right people, they just bring, and you don't even know where they're coming from. How did you think of that? I'm like, I don't know. When I watched you, and you especially, Jimmy Carr as well, and Matt Rife, when I watch you guys riff on stage, it is like how

the living fuck does that come spontaneously? Who's that really famous freestyle rap guy? Harry Mac. Harry Mac. I know. It's like watching Harry Mac. Yeah, yeah. This is the most high wire act. Because if you don't say something funny after you've just popped some guy in the front row and you're like, oh, what's going on, man?

Oh, okay. And the, oh, okay, that's the like, start a pistol's got fired of like, I'm going to fuck with you now. And if you don't do it, he kind of wins. Right. And you kind of look like a fool or a bully or someone that's not cool. And you're like, oh, fuck, now I've got to win the crowd back. Yeah. So doing that under pressure, under tension, it's just super fucking impressive.

It's really, really, really impressive. I told you, first show in New York, we had some problems getting people in. They were doing like extra bag checks at the start. Do you have one of those crowds? No. They bring a lot of guns? No. It's just, I don't know.

Something was going on and fucking Alex is running around trying to fix shit. And my warm up that I brought with me plays music for 30 minutes. Fucking unbelievable, like country, blues stuff. And he's dialed this set in like perfectly. And he knows it from start to finish without looking at a clock for like 20. 29 minutes, 30 seconds, like, done. And he's off, and then I'm up. And he just gets, like, a little message from on his stage where she's going,

hey, man, we just need you to extend by 15 minutes. He's like, it's the first show of tour. It's the biggest show that we're doing. It's the town hall on a Thursday in the middle of Manhattan. It's sold out. Everyone's looking at me. He's like, yeah, yeah, we need you to extend by 15 minutes. He's like, and he just did, like, just pulled out, like, fucking unreal songs out of nowhere that he hadn't practiced,

that he hadn't prepped, like not knowing the tutored. of his guitar, not knowing this. It was so cool. Well, I love being put on the spot. I think that's why crowd work sometimes I'll like. And listen, there's so, and the parts that I don't say to them back are funny, those get edited out. I post a minute 30 clip.

It was a three-minute interaction, whatever it is. But those parts that, like, when you're being put on pressure, that's when, like, your body is in, like, fight or flight, and it takes all of its creative uses and all of its years of training comedically to be like, just what, you. You know, and you're not thinking about anything else. You're not thinking about a doctor's appointment. You've got to go to.

You're not thinking about what time you're flat. You're just, you're so present. And when you're present, that's when you're just, I just love that feeling when everything creatively just leads to that moment because you're just responding, but you're just present. Without thinking, really. Well, yeah. I mean, it's like, I remember I did improv classes when I first moved to L.A., hey now. And they, like, anytime I would, like, think of a joke to say, it would always bomb.

Because it, like, I would just respond. Yeah, those are always the funnest. But like, if you had like a joke loaded up, time goes by and maybe the joke was funny 10 seconds ago, but you, but they didn't it's not talking yet or you said something funny. And I go, I got something to say, but you keep talking. It's like the funnier thing is to respond what they finish with, not what they interjected with, what like middle through. So I think to the effect of crowd work, it's like you're just, you're present. I'm, I mean, like, it's also like I'm, I've been doing, I'm on, let's say I'm on stage like, 30 minutes. I'm like, I'm fired up. I'm warmed up. I'm, I'm fully in. I'm, you know,

I'm dialed in. If crowdwork happens right in the beginning of the show, it takes me a second to be like, wait, what? Hold on. Because there's no like, there's no stakes established yet in the show yet. Sometimes there is, but like sometimes I'm like, it's like, sometimes I'm like, let me just let me get comfortable in this room first. Someone you might yell something crazy in the beginning. I'll be like, what did you say? Okay, kind of dab with it. Start cooking with the crowd going off my like guided material. And then 20 minutes later, I'd be like, hold on. You said you had a bow constrictor's your first blow job, then I'll bring it back. You know, because I'm like, let me warm up real quick.

You can't just start yelling this shit. It's like, because I want to feel it's like working out. I don't want to just go and hit my PR right off the bat. It's like, let me kind of like, let me do some lunges real quick. A good term for that is called cold barring. So you go into the gym and the bar is still cold and you try and cold bar your one rep max. It's like you can't cold bar great crowd work. Like you need to actually get into it a little bit.

But I think to go back to what you said at the very beginning, which is, We love people that love something, like somebody that's got a passion. And I think part of the reason is that person probably gets into a flow state at some point. They're writing music. Yeah. And they're just like obsessing. And maybe they're not even right. Maybe they're just editing the song and they're trying to find like, what's a perfect fucking kick drum?

Like, I need to like, I need to lose a little bit at this low end here. Or it's someone that's drawing and time just stops. And they're just, it's them and whatever it is that they're trying to create. Or someone's writing a comedy bit or they're doing this on stage or, you know, playing fucking pickleball. whatever it is. Like, this is why hobbies are cool and compelling. And the fact that increasingly people don't have pursuits that make them feel like that, I think it's like a real, you can laid at the feet of bullshit jobs and cost of living and the fucking dopamine and the world's news and all the rest of it. That's true. But if you don't have at least like one thing,

and I guess that could even be probably like playing with your kids, being like, fuck like I'm just so like in the zone with my kids and I'm in such a good time and time's completely stopped here but if you don't have anything I think it's going to be really tough to feel like I live a meaningful life if you're kind of just moving from neurotic obsessive echo fucking self-reinforcing thought loop thing to the next thing to the next thing to the next thing to the next thing it's like well at what point are you just there and you kind of out of your own head and just doing the thing so what do you tell people that feel like they're working a dead end job and they're like, I don't know if I have any hobbies and I just, I don't have any time

to work life balance. It's rough, man. I mean, there's material constraints to what people can do. And this is always the issue of trying to talk about this sort of stuff online that, well, easy for you to, that is the sort of immediate response. And in some ways, like, rightly so. Because if you are a person who doesn't have the opportunity to, you've got to work two jobs and raise a kid and fucking do the rest of it, trying to get some sort of a qualification.

like that sucks. But your goal presumably is not to do that forever. Your goal is to be able to do that to reach escape velocity so that you can have this opportunity. And this is why I think people that criticize or people that have an issue with anyone talking about how to manage money or or, you know, move up the property ladder or whatever it might be. They're like, well, this is like completely out of touch. And he goes, well, it's only a lot. I'm not. You know, it's only a lot of. I'm not. You know, it's only, you know, it's only out of touch with the stage that you're at now, because presumably your goal from the stage you right now is to get to the stage where this sort of conversation is of use to you. So I'm kind of skeptical. It makes me sad when I see cynicism or criticism on the internet of people talking about how to go from 50 to 60 as opposed to always just going from naught to 1 or naught to 10. Like not everybody's at the beginning of their journey. And if you want to learn about, okay, what do you do when you actually get a little bit of momentum under your wings? Like, there's a very different problem being at the start of your journey and being like,

it's all upside. I can't fail as opposed to going, hmm, what's it going to be like the first time that you eat shit or get a demotion or you don't hit your target in your sales job or you release a blog post that eats shit compared to the last one, whatever it might be? Oh, well, actually that is a really challenging hurdle to try and overcome. It just feels a little bit less sort of like underdog philanthropy, like we're raising up the fucking like the people that are struggling because as you get further and further up any sort of a journey, there's fewer and fewer people like it, right? Because by definition, people that get to 50 or 70 or 90 are in the smaller percentage than the people that are the very beginning.

To me, that would be pretty interesting too because it's saying, hey, I know that you might be at this stage, but watch out because this thing's coming, right? You haven't had a video take off or you haven't had a blog post take off or you haven't managed to change careers to the one that you want to. But when you do, you're going to encounter this thing and this thing is going to be hard in a really different way. So you're going to feel like, oh, what if I dropped off? What if my self-worth has changed now? What if I can't be as creative as I used to be in the past? Those things are, they're useful to see. But the only solution that I think that makes any sense is like,

even if you only had 20 minutes or 30 minutes today, what is something that if you knew it was on your calendar for the day, it would make getting out of bed way easier. You're like, fuck, like I can't wait. So, for instance, today, I had a good night's sleep last night, even though I've been flying a lot, again, as you know, like, tours are not exactly great on the, like, sleep patterned stuff. Yeah.

And I woke up this morning and I was like, fucking Trevor and Huberman back to back and all my friends are here. Two alpha males. Yeah, two sigmas. This is fucking sick. Like this is a good day. I'm like, okay, I can deal with the admin. I can deal with the emails. I can deal with the bullshit. Episode on Tucker Carlson just went out like as we're doing this episode, I assume that I'm canceled by like by now. But I'm just like, I'm fired up to do this thing. And if you can find half an hour of your day where you're like, pickleball is kind of an example because people get obsessed with it.

Like, if you fucking love that and you know that Monday is going to be pickleball day and you get up on a morning and you're working the kiosk in a fucking, where was it? Costco. You're like, oh, God, but tonight I get to go. Monday pickleball, like, is the, and maybe I see that hot girl again that I've been talking to

or maybe I get to get better at my thing. Dude, I had a Spanish class with this girl and her name was Bailey. And I would get so excited on Monday, just in hopes that she'd ask, me about my weekend. Oh, God. She has like three kids now, but the, somebody beat me to it. Probably multiple people. She has three baby guys. Was she Spanish? If she's Mexican, that fertility explains a lot. No, she was a, a white girl, but kind of went to stolen valor route. She'd kind of

pounsel in her eyebrows and she thought she was Latino. But honestly, dude, I mean, she had a, she had an ass. So, yeah, you could, yeah. She could laugh as. Yeah, yeah, she could, yeah, yeah, she could pass. But she, she went, oh, man. But, but that, that feeling of like, oh, she, I'll see her Monday morning in, in Spanish class. Maybe that's why it felt like she might be a little Latino Spanish class. But to your point, I would get excited at my day job for lunch because everybody in the

office would go out to lunch. And I would say, oh, cool, I can now go to the break room and edit my videos freely. So I would get excited for people to leave. I would get like, fine. And it was a 20 to 30 minute window where I could like go, oh, if I edit now, then I can go to open mic later. And I, like, I've always been like a Google calendar guy in my head where I'm just, it's all blocks. So I go, okay, if I do 20 minutes now, then I have that free. And I, but like, I would obsess over like, when can I, when can I film this week?

When can I edit this week? I would sneak away and shoot a video upstairs my old day job. And then I would be like, in my lunch break, I would turn my laptop against a wall so, nobody else in the break room could see it, and it would look like I'm working. Nobody ever in that office ever saw me work as hard as I did when I was editing because I had like a 20-minute constraint. Same to the pressure thing.

It's like if I have a whole week to get a video done, I'm going to dilly dally around the whole week and I'll probably finish it Sunday night at midnight with if there's like a deadline. I was the same way with papers in college. I didn't give a shit until there was a deadline. So also giving yourself a deadline for goals of saying like, okay, yeah, you work from 5 p.m. to midnight.

And you go, okay, well, I have up until 4 p.m. to get this done because I got to do the closing shift tonight. Like that, that deadline mentality, that really, I gave myself a small goal of one video a week. And I like would obsess over that. And I just, I loved it. I would find time to, to make that. It's what I said before. Look at how much reverence and enjoyment you have for what should be the shittest period of your career. Where you're like, nobody knew who I was. I had a couple of videos that had blown up. I didn't have the following. I wasn't flying around the country, playing all of these shows. I certainly wasn't selling out the fucking beacon theater in New York. This is, and it's kind of hard to say, it's a bit of an unteachable lesson, that the golden years are often the first ones. But you're going to look back on the start of this relationship.

You know, oh, do you remember before we had kids or we lived in that pokey apartment in the Upper East Side? And we could hear the pigeons outside, but like it was. so beautiful and we had Saturday mornings to ourselves and we go to the dog park and blah blah or do you remember when we first founded the business and we didn't have any idea what we were doing and we had that pitch meeting and we crushed it but we slept under the desk the night before and we ordered Domino. Like those are the golden years. Yeah, there's a good chance a lot of people listening to this right now are in their golden years but they're so stressed about the future they don't realize it. Yes, yes. So true. Morgan

Howsel has this fucking unreal article. He says, um, golden years only exist in the past. Like nobody ever believes they're growing, they're, They're living through a golden era. Yeah. There's a good chance. I'm in my golden years right now, but I'm just like, well,

why can't I say, well, Seattle sold out, but why isn't Portland? You know, like there's so many, there's so many things that can take you away from it.

And it's almost good that it takes away from it. I'm not a big reflect guy. Like, sure, I'll do the beacon on Saturday. And I'll be like, yeah, cool, but this YouTube short bomb.

Yeah, yeah, or it's like, okay, cool, but what's the next show? So, like, City, how's that selling? I don't, I don't,

My mom asked me if I ever am enjoying anything that I'm doing because I've done a lot of really cool shit. And she goes, do you enjoy this? And I go, I enjoy it months later. I go, like, I shot my special in Austin. And I did three shows with Paramount. And I was like, unreal. So happy with it. And then, like, there's a photo in my kitchen of the last night in the Paramount.

And, like, I walk past every day. And then, like, a couple months later, I looked at it. I was like, holy shit, man. I can't be like that. I did that. But for me, I can't. in the moment feel it. I walk into the beacon on Saturday.

I'll look at it. I'll say, ah, this is fucking beautiful. Now I'm a ton of worry about my set. You know, it won't be until months later that I'm just sitting there like, dude, the beacon? I fucking did that. Yeah, but I don't know what that is because I'm just always worried about the future. So being in these golden years thing, it's like, dude, I mean, listen, I'll probably be 62

performing out of a loony bin in Tulsa, Oklahoma be like, you're working for a chick contenders and a shot of Jack Daniels. Like, I did the beacon back in the day. I'll be thinking about how good it currently is right now, but I don't realize it right now. I am doing it right now, and I'm, I feel like I'm not. I feel like I'm still, like, does anybody care? Should I go to an open mic?

Should I delete my account? Now, this is being dramatic, but I feel like I'm in the golden years, but I don't feel like I'm in the golden years until five years down the road. it'll be like, dude, that was incredible. I was doing everything I wanted. I was, I have employees. I have a house. I'm doing everything that I need.

I'm, but I'm not like appreciating because I'm always just head down, what's next, what's next? In other news, if you're feeling tired, you might not need more sleep, you might not need more caffeine,

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I usually care about the box more than that. DrinklmnT.com slash modern wisdom. There's this idea called Deferred Happiness Syndrome. The common feeling that your life has not begun, that your present reality is a mere prelude to some idyllic future. This idyll is a mirage that'll fade as you approach, revealing that the prelude you rushed through was in fact the one to your death. I think this is so fucking common. I think that people have this nexting, like they're sort of peering over the shoulder of the present moment to see what's coming. You know when I feel this the most is when I go to the

mothership, and this is not an insult to any of the comedians of the mothership. But there's always this sense of like, oh yeah, I know that such and such is on now, but who's up next, but who's up next? And before I know it, I've, but who's up nexted my way through the whole fucking show. And I'm like, oh, I'm done. We're outside again. Like, and I've just like peered over the fucking shoulder of the present moment waiting for that. I also think that's what has made dating so hard because you're like, yeah, I'm dating this person right now. But with social media and you see your whole, I mean, my Instagram, I don't know about yours.

It's just like there's hot women everywhere. And there's just temptations everywhere. like, yeah, this girl's awesome. I love this woman, but you're also like, and then you're like, what are these voices coming in? So I feel that, and also people, even before they start dating somebody where they're swiping and they match with somebody like,

nah, it's cool, what else is out there? What else is out there? I don't know. Options are difficult, man. You know, there's this cool idea called the Paradox of Choice by Barry Schwartz did this TED talk. I remember when I first, I remember where I was when I was listening to this,

like over 10 years ago driving through Newcastle. It basically says, The beer? Barry Schwartz? Newcastle? Yeah, that's where I'm from. The beer? Yeah, Newcastle Brown ale.

Sorry. Have you drank it? Yeah. That's good. Sorry, I was getting... Not at all. Have you ever played? Newcastle?

Have you done anywhere in anything in the UK? No, I haven't. I want to. Browell. I need to. They'd like you. I would... No, I know I would do.

I would... You must be lining that up. You must be lining up Europe. Yeah, we're working on London. I've done Australia, which is where I thought everybody was here from this morning, but No. Sorry to me. That was a bad intro to everyone.

It's like, you're Australian and you're Australian and you're New Zealand. Well, everybody in L.A. has a cool accent. And I'm like, nobody from L.A. is from L.A. Like, everybody you meet here, and every bigger production you go to in L.A. for a shoot or something, there's always like one token Australian. And you're like, God, I need an Australian around me. You remember where you're... Where I was where I was listening to this.

50 years ago, if you went into the jeans store to try and buy a pair of jeans, there would be one type of gene. and maybe be in different waist sizes, but you walk out and maybe they're not perfect for you, but you don't feel much regret about your purchase because there were no other options. Fast forward 50 years to now. And do you want boot cut or skinny, ripped, stretched, bleached, do you want them to be cropped? Do you want them to be low-rise, high-rise? Do you want them to be loose a bag?

If you don't choose the precise, perfect pair of jeans, it's your fault. Previously, it was because reality constrained your options. now it's because your ability to choose appropriately was wrong. So you get much more buyer's remorse when there's loads of options than when there's none. And this like analysis paralysis thing is why you don't make anything and you're always dissatisfied. And it's the same thing with partners. Absolutely. Well, it's the same thing with like there's so much fast fashion.

There's so much fast trends. It's like I'm always fascinated at how I edit is how based on people scroll. Like I study how people scroll at airports, at restaurants. People scroll no headphones on and they're like, boom, boom, boom. So for me, I go, how can I catch their attention when it's usually a video where I'm talking? So it's like, I need subtitles. I need to catch their attention because they're going boom, boom, scroll, scroll. What am I going to do in that point five seconds that's going to catch their attention because that's just the world we're living in?

Everything is just like next, next, next, next, next, next. how can I in a next, next, next world, be like, and stop. And there's so many options. And it's, it's, to your point, it's like, that's why I haven't made a TV show. I go, I have this idea. And they go, well, I'll set you up with it. And then we'll do this. And then I'm like, there's too many options.

If I want to make a sketch right now, I call one guy, he shoots it, he edits it, it's out. Yep. So that's the, that's the genes right there. The stakes are low as well. The stakes are a little bit low. True. It's like if I try and do this TV, show and it flops, well, that is my chart, as opposed to knowing, well, I do the video this

week and it doesn't work, and then I do another one next week, and maybe it redeems me. Like, when the stakes are a little bit lower, it's easier. But that's again, that's the same advantage that you have at the start of your journey. No one's scrutinizing you. No one's like Trevor Wallace fall off when no one knew who he was. Yeah, yeah. I think about that habituation thing, sort of the balance between, wow, this thing's really big and impressive, and I want to enjoy it at the time. But the more that I enjoy it,

at least in my experience, the more it causes me to get a little bit more sort of nervy and in my own head about what's going on. And that's not very good for performance. Correct. You're trying to play cool, whilst also trying to appreciate what's going on, whilst also not looking over the shoulder at the present moment,

whilst also not doing it so much that you're like, oh my God, it's such a big deal, it's to the beacon, I'm going to fuck up. Well, yeah, when I did the Chicago theater, that was probably one of the biggest videos I've ever done. And I remember there was a moment where I walk out on stage, and it's a long walk from the side stage to the center stage. It's this loud-ass cheer.

And I'm like, dude, I got to get to the mic and tell a joke before I start over-analyzing, like, Holy shit. Because for me, the second I tell the joke, I'm like locked in. I always, to this day, and this was just something I learned from open mics and just myself is like, I feel like I always have to get a joke out as quick as possible so the audience can be like, oh, we trust this guy. Whether his next five jokes or shit, at one, he got a trust right off the bat.

So I come out with something quick. Like a good first impression, so dispe. First impression, right? The second you walk on stage, based on what you're wearing, how you look, they're judging everything. So if your first joke is funny, they go, okay, we like this guy. that's something I learned from just starting out doing open mics and doing random showcases

inside of Marie Calendors, which is a pie shop here in America. So I would always try to find a joke as fast as possible. And I still do that to this day. Granted, a lot of these people follow me online and love me, but I'm still like, you guys invested your time, money, this? You're getting funny out the gate.

I'm not here to lolly gag. But when I'm walking out there and I see how big this is, I see people cheering, I go, dude i gotta get to that mic so i can lock in because if i'm out here any longer it's the same thing for the special i'm just standing they're like taking it all in i'm like nope i'm thinking i'm thinking i'm thinking i'm not doing my set and i'm like i'm like oh there's holy shit there's people up there like people like how are my jokes going to exceed their

expectations or standing up and they're so excited i'm like these aren't thoughts i have on the regular so i'm like once i just get in and do what i feel like i was meant to do that's when the show is great but every once in a while i'll take a moment in a big crowd I'll be like, dude, this is a lot of people. I won't say that, but I mentioned it. This is a lot of people who are like, shut up, get back to the set. Because I'm not thinking about the foot. I'm like off somewhere.

Isn't that strange, though, the whole reason that you do this, well, you do it for a, you do it to feel proud of your performance and you do it to make people laugh and you do it to make money. Like, largely you're doing it for the experience of having done it. Like, the reason that we do things that we enjoy is to experience doing things that we enjoy. And if the only way that you can perform is to almost fucking disembody yourself. Yeah. You end, it's this weird, it doesn't surprise me that you go, I enjoyed the things that I do.

I just enjoyed them three months later. And I saw this, I was yesterday on the plane watching a cut of the vlog from New York and Toronto, which was last weekend. I'm like, holy fuck. Yeah, yeah. That thing happened. And that thing happened. I'm like, hang on, where was I when that thing was happening to me? Like, where was I in my mind?

You're there, but you're not there mentally. You're somewhere else. Yeah, that was a good point. When I did my first tour, the videographer, I was like, oh, this vlog didn't do a very good numbers. He's like, that's not what this is for. He's like, this vlog is so you can watch it back years later and be like, dude, how cool is that that I got to tour the U.S.

with my best friend at the time. We were still best friend, but we toured together and was like, how sick is that that you got to do this? And like, to your point, I'm there. I'm not thinking about the vlog and how cool is videos you know. I'm thinking about the show. I'm thinking about what's next and what I got. going on but then when you watch it back

I almost get this like third person I watch it back and I'm like dude this guy's life is so cool but I'm like I'm the guy in it was me but I don't feel like it's almost I really think there's something deeper dude I really really do that Morgan House little article I was talking about

where he says nobody ever believes that they're living through Golden Years he uses this great example of him and his wife living in New York and they've got kids now and he's got the psychology of money, which has sold a gazillion copies, been on the New York Times best seller chart for like four years straight or something. He was talking to his wife, and he was saying, do you remember when we used to live in New York and we didn't have any kids and we'd lie in on a Saturday

morning and we get to go and have coffee and we could have this wonderful time? Do you remember how amazing it was? You remember how free we were, and his wife turns to him and goes, what are you talking about? You were miserable. Like, you had no idea whether you were going to hold your job down. You were scared about the future. We thought we were going to get kicked out of the house. And what he realizes is, in retrospect, he could see that his fears were a waste of time. I like that. And that the successes that he was hoping would come to pass, would come to pass. But at the time, all of his fears were really real.

Like, I'm going to miss the first joke or people are going to laugh at me or stuff's not going to go well. And none of your successes are promised. So you end up with this weird world where in retrospect, you know, that you had nothing to worry about. So you can almost enjoy stuff more. And I guess this is kind of a curse of somebody that isn't obsessive with high standards that's trying to achieve. Because the reason that you are getting the outcomes you want is because of your

obsession, your attention to detail, your vigilance of, oh, that might, that could be a little bit better. If only I refined it this tiny little bit more. Okay. Well, do you want to do that? And also at the same time be like, I'm just present, man. I'm free flowing. I'm like here.

those two things don't comport very well. No, and they feel like they would hate each other. A guy who's compulsive and obsessive over an edit sees a guy at a coffee shop who's like, it'll all work out, man. If people buy... Fuck you. Yeah, those two guys would never hang out.

They would meet each other at a party and be like, that guy's an idiot, that guy's an idiot. So it almost feels weird to let myself know, like, hey, I've been doing this independently for seven years. Yet every day I go, how am I going to make this happen? And I go, well, I have a track worker to seven years. But, but I'm like, yeah, but, but how am I going to, in a week, in a month, in a year? But like, so to his point, if I put myself five years behind when I'm only two years, then, I go,

ah, dude, how am I going to be like another five years? You just, you kind of just do, but you're, you're, you're subconsciously trusting yourself while stressing yourself. Because you're stressing yourself to the next level, you're like, I got to get, I got to get, I got to get. True. But, but, but it's not like, there's no like bumpers, like in bowling where it's like course correcting. You're like, I'm just, I got to, I got to. And you're just, you're like, you're like stressing yourself forward in this weird way where you're like, I trust myself because I'm not looking up job applications. I'm not, I'm not putting the fries in the bag. I'm not doing that. I'm trusting myself. I know them myself. I know what I'm doing is successful and funny. Yet there's still doubt. What is why? I've done everything online that I've ever dreamed of times a thousand. You know, I remember I have a photo of a gold list from 2017 that I like to look at every once in a while. It was when I saw my day job, but I had just quit, I think. I just quit my day job in that year.

And one of my goals on there was like get a million views on a video. And now I was talking to my girlfriend last night about something that's stressing me. I'm like, if a video on Instagram doesn't do a million views, I'm like sad. I'm like depressed about it. But I'm like, that once was my goal for the entire year. One video hit a million views. And I wanted like a million views on like Facebook. I don't even, this is pre-Tic-Tac.

This was like pre-in-Stra. So it's interesting to see, I lost much in a thought. Interesting to see that. I'm looking here. I've got like a yearly goals library. Yeah. That's what you've prompted me to go and look at here. I think me and Dean put some together.

certainly in 2018, which was hit 20,000 subscribers. Yeah. And the problem that you have

and the problem that everybody has, so habituation, right, which is you get in your car and then you get used to it. And the first day

that you get your cyber truck, it's amazing. And after that, you kind of, the hedonic adaptation sets in. But the same thing

happens for goals, the same thing happens for what you want to achieve. Yeah. So the first time that you played a headline show, just straight up

headline show, not just spots, been like, holy fuck 200 people and it's just me and now you're looking over the shoulder of the fucking beacon and going yeah i know but what about chicago what about milwaukee what about the whatever whatever so there's this line for every level there's a devil and as you keep on getting better at the thing the level of resolution that you look at it with becomes more refined you know you go from like 360p to 1080 to 4k to 8k you're like looking zooming in zooming in zooming and zooming in

and that makes the job harder, but that's why you get better. That's why the people that are the absolute top are the best, because they've continued to zoom in and zoom in and zoom in a lot. And I, I don't know, I think. And so, zoom in on what? The level of, like, resolution that they look at their craft with, you know, for you to deliver a joke that got this size of a laugh,

five years' time, you're like, yeah, but I could have just, like, clipped the end of that word just a tiny little bit better. My pacing could have been a little bit more. I know that my hands weren't perfect. I know that my body language was a person. I could have held eye contact on the first person just a second longer. I could have smiled a little bit more.

Whatever, however you refine your art form to like really dial it in. But when you're first starting, you're like make words come out of mouth. Like publish blog post online. Yeah. Get a laugh. Yeah. Yeah. Say my name.

Exactly. So as you get better at something, you get better at something. And you start to try and do the thing with like an ever increasing skill set, right? like you're more refined with what it is that you do. And the problem of that is that as you get, as you get better, your standards increase and that you're never done. Like there's no point at which you'll feel like you've arrived. And I think this is a question that I'm playing with myself, which is like,

am I going to regret that in retrospect? Like, am I going to look back on a career where I was always looking over the shoulder of the present moment for the next thing I was going to do? or is that the game in order to be able to come a high, like to perform at the level that you want to? I've kind of got this, I've kind of got this working theory that you probably can let go of 5% of the neuroses to gain probably 50% of the presence and the enjoyment. And yeah, maybe it'll sacrifice a tiny little bit of performance. You'll like let a couple of things slide.

You'll make a couple of errors. But it might be worth, you know, another hard. of, oh, this is really fucking cool. And I am here. And my mind is why my feet are, as opposed to being like, must get on stage, must say, joke, must do.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know. Balancing those two things, enjoyment in the moment and high standards are, they're a really, really tough thing to do. One thing I'm really trying to get over, and I love your opinion on this,

is like, if I have a video that I really love making, and I'm having fun making it, I'm having fun editing, and I'm so excited, and then I post, my excitement is only as high as the video does after that. At one point, I loved making that video.

I loved writing it. I loved shooting, I love editing it. And then I post. And if it does bad, I go, wow, that excitement's now gone. What is that? Is that just the same as, like, if I tell a joke that I really thought was funny and the crowd doesn't laugh?

But it's different for me because if a crowd doesn't laugh at a joke, I go, okay, cool. I have a thousand other I can now go to. Or I know, now, now, okay, that's not funny, but I have another attempt at it in this next set. But when it comes to a video, it's like all this happiness I once had for it, if it does great, and it's like, let's say that CyberTruck video, for example, I had the idea, I got super excited for it. I moved shirt on my schedule. I go, we have to shoot this.

I'm obsessed about it. We shoot it. It does great. I go, fuck yeah. That's a perfect storm. But there's all those times where I have the same energy, and I post it goes, and I go, what the fuck. fuck. Why can I not still have the excitement that I once had with it because it didn't do

what I thought it was capable of? Yeah, I think in a perfect world, it would be lovely to say, I can just do it for the art form man. I know what is artistically honest and I know what's funny better than the audience knows what's funny. I don't think you do. I think if you're trying to do something that makes other people laugh and that doesn't happen. This is one of the problems with doing the video thing online. I think, at least part of it is the why question. It's like, was it because of the edit? Was it because of the script? Was it because of the acting? Was it because of the joke? Was it the premise? Was it the timing? Maybe it's because the Blue Jays lost. Was it like, you know, what was the contributing factor and you're going to drive yourself crazy?

As opposed to really on stage, the reasons that something doesn't work are pretty consistent. strained. It's like wasn't funny enough. Timing wasn't right. Body language wasn't right. So you only have a few number of variables. So I think there's going to be less reflection on that. But another part of it, like generally is just humans are social animals and you don't want to do something that other people don't respect or feel as good. Like this is why talking of Tucker Carlson, I thought it was kind of a meme that he doesn't check, he doesn't read the internet. Like he literally doesn't have access to his own YouTube channel. He doesn't have access to his on Instagram. doesn't read anything at all.

And all he does is live on this fucking 100-acre plot of land in Portland, Maine, like the middle of fucking nowhere. And does his thing, turns up, he has the talent that he has, he does his thing, and then he fucks off. And like that's the only way really without the feedback mechanism that you can't second guess yourself. That's also what I was thinking. And it's like I'm at this point where I still post all my videos on Instagram and TikTok.

It's still me. other apps, it's like other people running it. But like for whatever reason, I still care so much about how a video looks on Instagram and TikTok. But I'm so in the weeds. I'm so in it that like I post it and then I'm, I refresh 15 minutes later. And it's like, that's not the mind of like a successful CEO. It's, you know, it's like you kind of do like a month report or something.

And I'm like, okay, maybe it finally is time that I get somebody who uploads for me. So I can do that. So I can be like. A bit of distance. Yeah, just some distance. And if I do look at a video, I look at it a week later instead of day of. And I'm like, my thoughts are, my feeling towards the video are like live. You know, it's like, I post something this morning and I go, well, how's my day going to be?

You know? Instead, it's like completely determined by how this video performs. Which is so stupid. It went well, I'm good. It went badly. I'm a piece of shit. I mean, dude, it's Michael Blasin, who I do a podcast with, love the guy. We have the same brain where it's like, I.

can tell when a video is doing well for him. And he can tell when a video is doing well for me because it's like, you got a little pep in your step. What's going on? I'm like, dude, 13 million on this stand-up clip. And it's just, I hate that it is the nature of our game. But it's like, to your point, we all love to feel like we did something good. The same way that if I turn a blind eye to my Instagram page and I'm not posting anymore,

I would still want on the social media guy to be like, dude, this hit 10 million. And I'm like, fuck yeah, that's awesome. now that shouldn't make my day any better or worse. It should be like, cool, note it down. But it's not like I should start skipping around town and everybody gets a raise. And I mean, sure, maybe. But like, how much social numbers affect my day is just stupid. I'm like, you know, I know social media is getting to me when I walk outside and I go, wow, the birds are lovely today.

I'm like, dude, you're losing it. They've always been there. Touch grass, buddy. Because you hit 14 million today. Yeah, that did pretty well. Yeah. It was a 5.6 million on a stand-up club. We'll take it.

Good base hit. But for me, it's like, I want to just be a little more disconnected in that Tucker Carlson world. But then there's that voice in my head that fights for it. It goes, yeah, but being online is good because now you know what the trends are. Now you know what to make the videos on. But this is the kind of the vicious game of social media that there are diamonds in the rough. True. Right.

You scroll online for long enough and you will come across something every source. Some inspiration. You're like, yeah, there's my inspo. Do you know the idea of a signal versus noise? Are you familiar with this? No, I like this. So imagine that you were a trader and you were trading a particular stock and you were to check the price of this stock every single day.

There would be loads of intraday movement, right? It would be up and down. Or you check it every 30 minutes. And then in another version, you check it every day. and then in another version you check it every month and then another you check it every year. Across a year, there is loads of noise, but what you're actually getting is signal, right?

Something which is reliable to the trajectory of this thing over time. If you check it every half an hour, it's almost all noise. It doesn't contribute to, you even said it yourself, that sometimes video might launch slow and go pick up after five days or whatever, and you're like, huh, that came interline quite nicely. Because you've prioritized noise over signal. And the only way that you can really sort of select out noise and select for signal is to reduce how frequently you check

and to like do it at bigger chunks of time. Certainly I know for me, when we started having somebody else post on my behalf, unless I'm like, it's 10 a.m. central time. I should, a video has gone up 30 minutes ago. I don't know that it's gone. And another thing that's been really good, is, and this is from my housemate George,

he always has a couple of things in the tank and he publishes something that he wrote a few weeks ago. So, you know, let's say that you start off writing, but before you begin, you have four videos, articles, illustrations or whatever, and then number one goes out on week number four, and then number two goes out on week number five. Like, you're always moving like this.

That distance, I think between creation and publish gives you a little bit more like, ah. Well, it's great because you're also not creating based on last videos performance. If a video bomb, now you're stressed, you're like, I need a hit. Now you're writing under the pretense of I need a hit. And I swear the internet knows when a video is forced. If videos force, the internet's, like, you're like, no, no, hey, this is.

Desperate energy. Yeah, this is a fun zone, buddy. The videos that always do the best to me are, like, the ones that I, like, had the most fun creating. So when you distance yourself one to four, like you just said, now that gives you some space to be like, hey, I made this when I wasn't even thinking about these other videos. So true. I got to, yeah, I'm about like, like, two, I'm like a week out every week, but maybe that's not enough time.

Certainly with this, if you did that, if you did the little bit more inventory buffer, plus somebody else posted on your behalf, I think, like, okay, we're starting to create a little bit of distance, right, to get away from the noise and to get into the signal. Yeah, I like that a lot. I've never seen it so clear, getting a signal. I've never seen it so clear, but I also don't know any CEO who is standing over the shoulder looking at their Squarespace of the Shopify every 30 minutes, like, what's it selling? What's it selling?

What's it selling? It's like, they come in the morning. How'd we do? Good, bad. Okay. They're not refreshing. I totally get it. And I think you're right.

But I wouldn't be too hard on yourself because two things. First off, this is the training mode that got you to where you are. It's the same founder mentality, like startup demon mode Dgen fucking thing that everybody who rips a project off a launchpad has. It's like, oh, I did everything. I like came up with the ideas and I worked out like what's my handle going to be on social media and like, do I use fucking after effects or do I need to use Premiere Pro or like is Capca any goods? I don't know. And how do I, fuck, I exported it in the wrong, like it's 25 frames per second or 24. 30 looks weird.

Like, you know, all of these things. So now you, you know, getting from 97 to 98, are the inheritor of the guy that got from naught to one and then got from like 10 to 20 and 20 to 30. And you're like, okay, all of that stuff was good for then. But the tools that got you here don't always get you there. They don't always get you to the next thing. It's like, like, let's say you've got a big journey to do and part of the journey involves you getting across a river.

You're like, okay, I've got this boat. I'm like fucking rowing across this river. And now you're on land and you realize that you're still carrying a fucking boat. You're like, that was a tool that I needed for then. I like that. Wow, this is good. But it's hard to let go of because you're like, I know this works. I might need this later on.

Exactly. Yeah. Or you almost have like a self-esteem or like a pride. You're like, yeah, but I've always been. I've always been. But there's certain things that I can leave behind. It doesn't mean that I don't know how to use it anymore. I mean, the posting, for instance, is a really good one.

Yeah, I don't know. Because it's such a low skill level thing. And presuming that you, like, trust somebody to be the poster, you're like, can probably get someone else to press the button for me. Yeah, yeah. You can probably get, like, I remember when we first started using a company to do our Instagram clips, and it was like, we would get them to do it and send it to us for us to post. And then you're, like, involving yourself unnecessarily in the process of doing the thing.

Yeah. But this is, I have this idea called the Lonely Chapter, which is, like, as you move, through any stages of development, it's hard to resonate with an old set of friends and you're worried about whether or not you're doing the right thing. And each different hurdle that you get over is part of the selection mechanism

of why people don't change. It's the same as why people don't delegate responsibility. They're terrified. Like, fuck. What's the same? Yeah. If I don't do this thing, what if it goes wrong? What if something, I don't know.

I've got scarcity mindset. I'm concerned about the future. Like, ah. Yeah. Well, it's, I've had this trait before where I've hired somebody and then I go, you know, I'll just do it myself. And it's like those, let's call it, three employees who gave me that made it that much harder for me to find that person.

But then I had a guy who worked for me before. His name was Zach. And he was like the best employee who came in an absolutely crush. I go, dude, you changed my whole perspective of what adding somebody to the team can be. I had previous examples where I found like, ah, I wish there was difference here. Or like maybe you kind of knew something better about that. but like I was skeptical about hiring certain positions. I was skeptical about hiring like a everyday producer.

And then I hired this person. I was like, oh, this is what somebody who is good at this job looks like. It freed up so much. It allowed me to, you know, double my production and make it look that much better and really up the value of it. But I was so scared for so long because I was like, yeah, but this person kind of sucked or that person kind of sucked or freelancing with this guy sucked. So sure, but it's that same default of going to the negative. versus the positive. I could hire, sorry, what was saying?

No, I, somebody asked the exact same question at the live show last week, which was like, I worked 70, can I say 70 or 80 hours a week? That dude in Toronto. So I worked 70 or 80 hours a week

at this startup, and I'm terrified of relinquishing any control at all and I need to make my first hire. And I was like, one good bit of advice is try and have that first hire be someone that goes well. Because if it goes badly,

learn the lesson that you learned, which is like, I can't trust people. Yeah. And all that an employee is is an unreliable GPT that I need to like peer over the shoulder of and triple check their work. Yeah. It just makes me even more vigilant. I'm just vigilant on behalf of somebody else as opposed to myself. Wow, that's great. I think this is honestly, dude, despite the fact that you're playing at, you know, such a huge level on social media, I really think this is just par for the course of like anybody in a startup that's trying to build a business and they're like that's also it it's like at one point i was only myself doing this and now it's like i'm running this you know company that produces organization yeah legit money and it's like this is a company this is like

when you zoom out and you look at the signal hey now and you look at the signal of the trajectory the last year you're like this is like a legit money making company but i'm too in the busy in the weeds doing shit that, you know, somebody else could do right out of college. Yeah. So to your point, if you're going to have sushi for the first time, let it be at Nobu. Yeah. And not a Ralph's. Grocers store.

Or 7-Eleven. 7-Eleven, yes. Yeah. I think I have that fear. It's like, I have a fear that I'm going to hire somebody and maybe I hire them too quick. And I go, ah, you're doing with my Instagram. Ah, you're fucking it up.

You're making it worse. Nobody knows what they're doing with my Instagram. Really? No, that's the lesson. that you would take. You're like, you hire a person. First person doesn't go well. It's like your first relationship, they end up cheating on you. You're like, everybody's a cheater. It's like, you chose a cheater. Or maybe it was you. Maybe you're the problem. But, Trevor Wallace, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you so much. I learned so much. I've been a fan for so

long. I didn't even know that you followed me and that I saw. And I was like, dude, this has been happening. I've been DMing you for years. Oh, come on. It was once. You DM me once. But I'm honored to be on here. Yeah, follow that, Huberman. Live shows. Where should people go? Trevor Walls.com. I'm touring the whole United States. I think I have like 30 shows left on this tour.

Then we're filming a special in March in Phoenix, Arizona. Tickets are going to be announced very soon. When does this come out? A couple of weeks. All right. Well, maybe it's on sale. Trevor Walls.com. Thank you for having me, Chris.

And make sure to drink, Ellumint and Newtonic. Is that you saying? Yep. Thank you. Free ad reads. Newtropic? Yeah, sure. Is there a cratim in this?

Yes. Thank you for me, Chris.