Modern Wisdom - #106 - Business Principles 102 - Should I Work For Myself?

Episode Date: September 26, 2019

Jonny & Yusef from PropaneFitness.com join me for another Business Principles episode. Today we're talking about one of the questions we're most commonly asked - should you take the plunge into self employment. Being your own boss sounds fantastic, but what's the reality of your income being completely in your own hands? Expect to learn our favourite mental exercise for working out the true salary of your job, why Jonny & Yusef left high paying graduate jobs to pursue their passions, what sort of personality types are not built for self-employment and whether we believe everyone can find a job they enjoy. This episode is brought to you by https://pso-rite.com - if you're sitting at a desk all day, this product may be a fantastic addition to your routine to reduce psoas tension. Extra Stuff: Check out everything I recommend from books to products and help support the podcast at no extra cost to you by shopping through this link - https://www.amazon.co.uk/shop/modernwisdom - Get in touch. Join the discussion with me and other like minded listeners in the episode comments on the MW YouTube Channel or message me... Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chriswillx Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/chriswillx YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/ModernWisdomPodcast Email: https://www.chriswillx.com/contact Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Oh yes, hello people of Podcastland, welcome back to Modern Wisdom, it is Business Principles 102. Fast becoming my favourite series that we've ever done, don't tell life hacks, and also landed in the top 50 worldwide on Apple Podcast chart last time we released the first one. So got big hopes for this, and today we are talking about should I go and work for myself? It's a question that we get asked all the time, all of us are self-employed and you get sang this tale man, you hear the story, the Gary V. Hustle and Grind, like go and get after it, make your own company, it's never been easier, the best time to start was 10 years ago, the second best time is now, company, it's never been easier. The best time to start was 10 years ago. The second best time is now all that sort of stuff. It's a

very pervasive narrative that's going through the world. You can start your own business and be successful, but should you? That's the question that we go through today. So expect to hear our opinions on the debate between self-employment and typical employment. We do a really cool mental experiment that I've done with a number of friends that you might be able to do as well, which should illuminate whether or not it's time for you to ditch your job and go make it on your own. You'll also get to hear the reasons why Johnny and Yusuf left high-paying graduate schemes

to go and become men who self-fitness on the internet. So yes, I really hope that this helps a lot of you. I hate the idea of people loathing the thing that they spend eight hours a day doing. So if you have any further questions or you want some more advice, you know where we are, get in the comments on YouTube or message me wherever you follow me. Also, this episode is brought to you by Soulrite. It is a fantastic, so-ass manipulation tool. by SoulRite. It is a fantastic, SoulRite manipulation tool. All that you have to do is leave Modern Wisdom review wherever you are listening, whether that be iTunes, Stitcher or elsewhere, and I'll choose two people to win a

free SoulRite. And also, if you've already left us a review, you will be automatically entered. But for now, it is Business Principles time, let's go. I'm joined by Johnny and Yusif from propanefitness.com. Business Principles 102. 102. Did so good. Did so good on the last one. Done gonna do it again. Do you know what I'm gonna do? Not that one. Was one of our most popular new episodes that we've released in a while. Went down super, super well. And this episode is brought to you by Solrite, if you haven't seen one of these before, Joe Rogan and David Goggins went on about it

for ages on their podcast together and it shook their website down. So there's a business principle for you. Make sure you've got enough service space that if Joe Rogan and David Goggins start talking about your product, doesn't break? Be ready. Be ready. So it is a so-ass manipulation tool. If you sit down at a desk all day, we are talking business principles. If you sit down at a desk all day, you will have a tight so-ass. I'm right in saying it's the only muscle which actually

connects the trunk to the spine. Is that right? Or one of the primary muscles that does it? So it gets tight when you sit down. That helps to relieve it. We've all got one. And we've been using them pretty regularly It does help when you've been sat cranking out a big long day in the office and to relieve things

So all that you need to do leave us a review on iTunes or whatever you are listening And I'll pick someone up. Sorry. It's not the only muscle that connects me trunker to the spine It's the only muscle that crosses the pelvis The connectic Yeah, thank you very much. The connectic. Yeah. Thank you very much. There we go. Well, I think it's a fillet minuon account.

That's interesting. I think it's interesting. So if I cook you. So if I cook you. If I cook you. If I cook you. If I'm using the so right, then it would be nice. And lovely.

It's not load bearing in the car. I would say white so tender. Interesting. So, business principles. One or two. Yeah. We talked about a lot last time, we talked about our sort of genesis stories for business, about how we got started, about how useless

university degrees, when it comes to running a business. So one of the main questions that we got asked a lot is when someone should make the decision but whether or not to leave their current employment and take the big leap into being self-employed, yeah, pulling that pin. You started to talk about your decision when you were sat on a couch that I no longer have. I think I've made the decision. By then, yeah. So it's like jumping out and playing and hoping that the partnership call works.

Hmm. People make the decision often either way too prematurely, like, oh, mate, I'm going to start like a new T company. It's going to be sick. I've not got any clients yet. So accurate. I've got no clients, but like I'm gonna start like a new T company, it's gonna be sick. I've not got any clients yet. So accurate. I've got no clients, but like I'm working, I'm just gonna quit my job,

like I'm currently working as like a management consultant in there, but anyway, like I, I know that like, I just need like two days, get my drop ship in sort of, it's gonna set me in, and it's like, I make you are eight months away from lunch, and you have two weeks of, I'm gonna be fine. No, no, no, sick look, it's like, you know are eight months away from lunch and you have two weeks of my life. No, no, I don't see it though, because like, you know, I've got a logo, my mates and design, he's going to make my look and you're like, oh no, just wait until you're

, your, your profits start to like eclipse your salary. And then it's like, oh, okay. So I think one of the cool, interesting little thought experiments that we've done over the last couple of years, which is a good strategy to do with other people as well. If you hear someone complaining about the job or complaining about the boss or whatever it might be, this is a good strategy to use on them. And we promised that we were going to do it before the last one. So what we're going to do is we're going to take a salary. Now, at home, you can take your own salary and deduct as is appropriate, but we'll have

to, Johnny, I'm going to pretend that you are a person in a normal, some normal job. Let's say that you're taken on paper years, 20,000 pounds, okay? Gross. Take her next. You live in Netland. Okay. Let's say, let's say, let's say 20 grand. So that's about 1200 quid a month, I think.

Okay. Received, I believe. Okay. So if it's 20 grand gross, do you not believe me? If it's 20 grand net. 20 grand gross. 20 grand gross. And that's like a maybe just below a starting salary for a graduate scheme, something like that, maybe $20.22.

I think it's pretty much a starting salary. Cool. So you've got 20 grand and I'm going to you are the normal graduate scheme, but let's imagine that you're someone who's a little bit unhappy with the job, thinking about maybe starting up the wrong thing. I'm going to offer you some concessions at work. So this is what me? Yep. I'm going to offer you some concessions at work. So this is what me. Yep. I'm going to offer you some concessions. Okay. And I want you to tell me how much of your wage you're going to give me back

for the things that I'm offering that you can have. Okay. Are I doing this as me? As you, as you in the role that you were at the job that you were at the time of your life. So you are allowed to wear your own clothes whenever you want. So you don't need to go to work in office stress. How much are you going to give me back? Per month or per year.

Per year. To take it off the 20. So yeah, I have trouble fitting in the suits. That's a hundred quid. Across the whole year. Of course the whole year, I thought this is monthly. No, so a grand and a half. Oh no, no, I can't think like that. I can't think like, could you monthly? Two hundred pounds a year, a hundred pounds a month. But then it grows and that. Yeah, that's right. I mean, just I get twelve and a qu and a month and it's exchange for good for that 12 and a month. I have to go somewhere and do stuff, dressing a certain way, have a certain time. Okay. So you're saying I have to do all that but I can go jogging bottoms and do shit.

Yeah. How much are you gonna do? 100 quid. 100 quid. So I'm gonna do about 11 and a hundred quid left. Okay. Now you can choose your own start time and you can choose if you want to have weekends off.

You can basically ultimate flexi time. Okay. You could get up at 6pm at night and do the shift. So I've got to do 35 hours a week, but as I please. Yes. I can't believe you give me 100 quid back per month just so you can wait. I know. I owe it. I've got it now, sorry. Fuck.

Because I've boxed myself in the situation yet. Yeah. Because soon I'll just have nothing. We can re-nage on the 100 quid. Can't re-nage, he's given us it. How much is it? How much is it? 200 quid.

Another 200 for you to be able to flex around. Well, because now, hold on, is location flexed. Just love how to go to the place. Just love how to go to work. 100. 100. I should have done 50 for the clothes. Come on, too, like, sorry.

So you're at a grand. So you just don't fit me. You're at a grander month now. Yeah. OK. And I'm naked, potentially coming in whenever I want. Yeah. OK, pretty good situation, do you mean you say?

Pretty good situation. You're a grander month. Yeah. Not bad. Yeah, um now You don't have to Interact with anyone at work that you don't want to No, thank you. That's fine. So does that. I'm gonna be difficult. Does that mean that like a boss comes up to me Goes you gotta do this and they just, no, but it would be...

Black Mirror blocking. Hmm, it's dire. Uh, it would be submitted through someone that you actually liked. Everyone that you worked. Doesn't affect my work flow. Everyone that you worked with would be someone that you liked. See how great I am for that. Okay.

How much am I going to get? Why not for that? Just because I think the thing that affects you most is like what you're doing Okay, and like most of the stuff that happens is on a screen. Okay, most of us, you know, you don't have 50 good for that 50 good Okay, so at 950 Uh now now you're allowed to work from home Hello I think is I'm You can see the accountant in him just being like,

oh, right, so we can see him. I'm going to have like, still a fairly shit situation for like 400 equivalent. Okay. Come on. So how much are you giving me for working for my 100 quid? No, 100 quid. So 850 were down to now.

So if you've got any concessions that you can think of here that we will be able to attempt in with. So we have flexi time. How about we have the like like? No, we're getting on to that. That's the fucking tip of the screen. I see. That's where it goes to zero. Yeah. We have freedom of location. Yep. We have working with people that you like.

Which didn't get much interest. Yeah, I know. It didn't really. Didn't take a lot of time. You said I don't have to speak to people that I don't know. You don't have to work with people you don't know. Well yeah that I mean on the flip side of that it's working with people that you do like. But those people are there now. There's just also some people that I don't know. Right but they're not there anymore. So they're there for me. I know I paid for that didn't they go. Yeah they go. Where did I pay 50 quid? Yeah. I'm happy about that. I paid too much for the clothes, Dean. Okay. So the, you're allowed to take the worst 20% of tasks that you do, the provide you

with the 80% of ball egg and you can outsource that. So is that reducing my hours? Yeah. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no hours. So you're hours the same, but what you do day to day, what fills those hours is the nicer tasks. You're not paying for it. No. Okay, how about here's this? You're no longer paid based on your hourly wage.

Your hourly wage, you're only based on work done. You have an allocation. That's more like it. Two in a quid. Six fifty. So you're just doing morning. Mm-hmm. Because you can crack out the work of a normal human in a morning.

Well, this is assuming that in a 35 hour work week, you can do it in less time if you just work hard and you definitely can. You can't. You can't have to go right click out. But but then that that would suggest that the initial allocation of work was too low. It suggests that well, I think in some it's not it's as in your job, when you completed work, you just don't give them more. But we were equalizing for hours on the previous question. Yeah, but that's why we said no, he said no, so I've really negotiated.

You have people react to incentives. So if your incentive is I have some work to do, but I have to say it'll five o'clock. Are you going to work fast or not or slow or slow down? You'll just pace it out with you. Well, there's no reason to rush because you've got to do Monday to Friday. You've got to do night and Friday. Someone says to you, if I finish my work too quick, you can go home in midday, if you just do it all. What happens to this guy? Well, the concern is then that you rush so much that your work gets done at a lower quality, isn't it?

As long as it's at a quality that's enough. So, we're now at the moment. At the moment, I'm working a morning, I'm naked. In fact, no, I'm women, I'm not women, I'll do 4 a.m. till 8 a.m. I'm gonna do all my work the week naked in the office before we want to get to. And you don't have to speak to anyone. You work from home?

You're working from home. All right. If we don't know. We can work from home. Yeah, but I bought that. Your page for it is. Wow. Don't go and pay for it.

So I'm getting 600 quid for a couple of hours we're working on my name warning naked at home. Yep. Sounds all right. Sounds pretty good. It's really like my life. So my point is, and we can take this all the way up, I could say, how much would it be to exchange the job that you're doing for something which you have full, complete creative control over? How much would it be for me to get you to be able to have your wage grow in line with the value that you create for the business that you are working in.

Keep on chugging away. You do have a money to... You do have a money to... You do have a money to... You do have a money to... You do have a money to... You do have a money to... You do have a money to...

You do have a money to... You do have a money to... You do have a money to... You do have a money to... You do have a money to... You do have a money to... You do have a money to... You do have a money to...

You do have a money to... You do have a money to... You do have a money to... You do have a dinner table and get someone to pay me to come to his job. Like, I hated his job a lot more than you did, and you weren't a massive fan. But was just so keen to get out of the office, get away from the people he didn't like, not have to wear the shit suits, not have to fucking blah, blah, blah, all that sort of stuff. He was paying me to go to his job. You know, like, how much do you need to hate your job? To pay someone to not have to do it anymore? I think the, so someone messaged me about accountancy after the last episode. And there's something that he said in the message,

which resonated with me, and I think this is probably the case. Anyone who, like, doesn't like their job, we need to go in a box A box base at some point. I think people think they'd start a job that like 19 fresh out or how old are you? 21 or fresh out school, fresh out uni and they're like, ah, it's a bit crap, but it'll probably get better. And then like 20 years later, it's not got better. Because of course it isn't going to get better like at 21 everything is completely novel everything's brand new to first time you've done everything people are really not expecting very much from you get to go home at five o'clock

and you've got your health you've got no commitments you've got no dependence financially yeah usually your parents are in good health like you're in you might be in a relationship or you might you know be the dark specter of mortality hasn't started to hangover. Yeah, the side. But I suppose you may be aren't adding much value, it isn't feeling that wrong at that point. But I definitely felt joined and felt like this, this wasn't really what I was expecting. I waited and hoped it would get better and it didn't really. And also something else for me was I could see see because of the way the job I did worked, I could see people who were like five, six, seven years down the line and I'm looking at them going like, that was the big one for me,

looking at my seniors and saying they are miserable tired, they look old for their age and I know that's mum, that's mum and mum. like, if they'd all been like going over three o'clock in their eventador to a mansion in the hills, I'd be like, fine. At least, we're all on the same page here, it's a bit shit, but look what happens in... Because there's not very progressive stuff. But as you can see that, and I think people hold on to something

because they always think, I want it to turn around, it'll get better, it'll get better, and then before you know it, you're 50, I don't know, it's all too late. In a typical job, you have the ability to see your future years within that company ahead of you, and into your boss, and your boss is boss, and so on and so forth. And some people will think I'm really jealous of my boss, and definitely the boss, and your boss is boss, yeah, and so on and so forth. And some people will think, I'm really jealous of my boss. And definitely the boss of most companies are doing all right. But most organizations are also like that, they aren't like that. Like everybody doesn't become the boss, they're in the top salary.

So by definition, there's a process of elimination. So that's when the thought process for me came in of like, well, all right, there's some point, there's going to going to be me versus him in an interview. And I just want to go over five o'clock and he loves staying delayed. Who's going to win the interview? So then that's so all the questions you're asking me, like, what I actually think is the best. The number one reason to leave is if you just do something that you like doing, then you don't really think about like, I don't care about any of that stuff really, like I don't

really care about now how many hours I'm working or I mean I'm aware of it. I mean you had to create automatic structures on your laptop to stop you from working. Yeah, you have an app on your laptop which which shuts it down at five o'clock, no matter what you're doing, if you're in the middle of an email or something, you have an SOS call because you've been hit by a car. Like, there is a thing that stops you laptop. Because that's, you know, that's what normal people do. And I have to try it, you know, or sometimes.

Yeah. Like, we have conversations with girlfriends where it's like, you're on holiday, you're like, please, please, can I just have a couple of hours to work in the morning? Oh, yeah. I had a difficult negotiation of like, right, we're going away for four days. It is longer than I can tolerate with the whole world. I'm going to have to, I'll get up early. I'm going to have to do five to six hours in the mornings.

And it's like, what, no, that's ridiculous. Yes, I know. Here we are. I'm sorry about me. Yeah, sorry for being me. But yeah, so like, you don't, like there's a palpable shift for me from like, I'm here, I'm resenting it.

I wanna go home, I wanna be let out of this. To like, actually, I don't mind, like if I'm watching something like love islands on the background, like, you know, yeah. Quick bit of work. mind, like, if I'm watching something like love islands on the background, I'm like, yeah, quick bit work. So, so, okay, so someone, someone might be unhappy in their job. What are some of the real key triggers that you think people need to be looking out for? Because unfortunately, this is one area of business slash careers, which I'm wholly unqualified to talk about because I've never

except for a summer at the AA. Had a job. Summer at the AA. You were not driving the truck, did you? No, no, no, I did not know about this. You'd have known me at the time, but I did calling you in my placement, yeah? I was like, I need some extra cash, So I didn't do that for four months. Didn't like it. I'm guessing.

Oh, I love this. I thought it was me. For us. No. Okay. Interesting. So number one behavior, pacifying behavior. So self-medication when the existential pain starts to bear so much on your shoulders that you like, I'm gonna just blast myself on Friday the Sunday. Get. Absolutely. With all sorts. With all sorts. I'm just going to ingest things. Yeah, desperate hope that it's gonna make this job. It's exactly that. Yeah, yeah, desperate hope that it's going to make this job. It's not quite as much. It's exactly that. Yeah, it's like ingest things.

So like looking for inane types of media to consume, putting very calorie dense things in your mouth, create, putting cream in your mouth. Just one form of medication after another. Yeah. Like lots of a joke about the cream. But people do like over consume alcohol, like, get a takeaway in a Friday night because it's Friday.

I will have a special breakfast on Saturday because it's Saturday. And they're creating this, like, perfect world over a weekend. Because it's so unpleasant. And this is different to work hard play hard. I don't think it's the same. I think work hard play hard is, like, have to find time boxes for when you do productive deep work and have time so you're relaxing fully. That's not the same as spending Friday to Sunday, semi-conscious and then rolling into Monday. Work hard, drink hard. Here we go again. It's supposed to be living for the weekend thing,

isn't it? Like if you really, like you know when people like post everything on Instagram being like I humped in all the shit about like oh it's Wednesday or halfway through that shit. Close it to one you know close it to Friday when I can go out and get drunk and forget about Monday to Friday. I don't mean to judge people that do this by the way like this is definitely an experience that we've been through ourselves and done this and I just think really it's a red flag. It's just a warning sign. Yeah it's a warning sign. It's like doing it. It's like doing it. It's like, all right. What have you been doing with your knee? Yeah. There's not, yeah, you're totally right. Like people should be allowed to enjoy themselves on a weekend. But if that enjoyment is medication or if that enjoyment on a weekend is done to

excess. Well, if it's done in an effort to be like an anesthetic for what's going on in a week. Yeah, so like there's one thing like going out on a Friday with your mates because you love going out on a Friday with your mates and actually like you really like your life or otherwise, versus I really need a drink because it's Friday because my boss is a cunt or because I have to wear a suit every day or I have to get up and go to work at this time or do work which isn't creative or all of the things that you gave me 600 or 550 pounds back. Yeah, well that one wouldn't But yeah, so anything to try and like avoid

The Monday to Friday reality. Mm-hmm. So that's that's that's a warning sign. What else? I think just not like it's hard because else. I think just not like it's hard because I think it's really easy when we both had like a something to go and do. So I think started your passion. The reason why I was so like anti it was I was very aware of an alternative of like how interested I was in that and like the possibility where it might go. That's interesting though because if that wasn't there, there'd be one of two things would happen. Either you would feel like you'd lost your mojo

and be like turning up for working with you. This is meant to be my ultimate purpose in life, and I really don't feel like it munches with my, with some vague sense of my inner purpose. Or you invest all of that desire for purpose into something like the carries enjoyment of something else. So like go and like and again, I was going to say like don't copy. Like investing it all into a dog or a football team or something that like it becomes the surrogate for all of your

meaning in your life and that. Or naturalized passion. Yeah. I think some, because I often wonder, child, if propinden exist, would I have just like learnt a love accounting? Like maybe I would. I think that I'm convinced that that's what some people do. I think you could, if propinden exist and you were on the track that you were in, I think

you would have gone into an adjacent field that still allowed you to leverage your express other things. Yeah. Because I think in the so-called end, I'm working for a social media marketing. Yeah, probably. Yeah. You start up, or something like that. Still just doing spreadsheets.

Dan Gibson has a really, he just sees the world as like, everyone's just doing spreadsheets. Like, it doesn't matter what they're doing. It's true. It's all just spreadsheets. Like, every graduate scheme, we run a fitness business. I'm not saying I'm a spreadsheet. You run club promo.

Let me tell you, Dan, my business has got nothing. I've seen your spreadsheet. It's just that you don't do much of them. Yeah, no, that's true. One thing that I can think, again, another warning flag potentially for someone who's thinking about their career is how hard is it to get yourself out of bed in the morning

when you've got work? Yeah. Like if you really, really have to fucking force yourself out of bed and you two coffees deep by the time you get into the office and it just doesn't light a fire. We did an episode for what the name of this podcast was before it was called Modern Wisdom that has never been aired on purpose and meaning. It took two hours.

But one thing that came out of that I don't forget is the best synopsis of what is purpose in life is a reason to get out of bed in the morning. It's a good battery. The coolest way, just the roughest, huge way to work out what purpose is getting out of bed in the morning for something. I remember Becca saying, after I quit and was doing this, she, like, I was just whistling one morning. Like, I was like drinking my coffee,

like getting ready, put my own clothes on. Whistling, and she was like, she like stopped and looked at me and like, he being, like, you taking the piss. And I'm like, what do you mean? Cause like, building up with that, like, every morning was like, in fact, I think I even used to say a song which was, I don I even used to see a song which was, I don't wanna go to work.

I don't wanna go to work. God, if you are singing a song, which is called, I don't want to go to work, I think that that's a good indication. But yeah, that's not so lovely, because the fact that the question was even like, are you taking the piss? It was so unusual.

Yeah, so, yeah, so, it's so interesting. It stops becoming work, were like so, so shastic about your life. It stops becoming work, but I'm moving on too quickly. Do you not think that the reason that you got asked about that is that whistling is so, not hierarchistically, high-hole, high-hole. It's off to what we do. It's just almost as if you're like, oh, what are you going to have to go and work for your fun? Put your suit on, Peson, I are you going to have to go and work for your fun?

Put your suit on, Peson, I'm just going to lie here with my cock out. Hi, ho, hi. Hi, ho. I paid 200 pounds of money. Hi. You've got no idea how much it cost me to get this position. Do we have an arsenal in the morning?

Yeah, so escapist behavior, not one can get out of bed in the morning. As of Mojo, last for Carey's enjoyment of putting your meaning into something. And the stuff I said before as well, like you just don't like it. Like you don't feel excited, you don't feel. Because there will be people who work like if I drop, assume, who love it, who feel like they're valued,

who feel like they're out of law, who feel like they're really good at it. So this is my next question, which is, you can be unhappy in your job, and many people are. I think the statistic is that 85% of people in the US are either neutral or actively dissatisfied. It's actively unengaged as opposed to actively engaged, 15% people in the US, that's it. So the option for you is not only to go work for yourself though. Absolutely. You can move to another bureaucratic organization, you can move to a startup, you can move to other things. So the next question is, okay, we've worked out that someone, if you're not unhappy in

your job, then like, fantastic. Listen and enjoy the remainder of these episodes. Use them to supplement your understanding of the business world, but you don't need to think about how they're going to apply to what you're doing. Stick it what you do and become better and move up within that organization. Whereas, next little route down the thought tree is, I'm unhappy. Should I work for myself or should I move to another company and work for someone else? How do we work that up? On that note, there's a very, so this thought experiment you did where you take away certain things.

You know, Juju Mufu, the guy that is now a very famous and rich acrobat. He initially set up his life in the way that you described to start with, which was that he had a job that was like 10 to 4. And he was like bookkeeping or like admin stuff that was quite cognitively easy. It allowed him two hour lunch break, flexible time.

And he set it up so that he was able to do as much, like, dancing around him the grass as possible, and training and just enjoying his life. And didn't care about like upwards or called upward mobility or anything like that. He was just like happy to just turn up, do the job and set up his life so that his job was low stress and low cognitive load. Incidentally, he ended up becoming very very well. So the people that I come into contact with who love their job usually aren't doing

it because of the salary. And I think a lot of the people that I've spoken to were like, people who are like in one of our programs who are leaving their job, it's, they started it because of like the gross annual salary. So, I think certainly the world I was in, like there's a lot of talk about, you know, people are leaving that accounts for you firm to go into industry and all people talk about is that annual gross number. Because at the end of the day it's just, but you're not taking home. It's getting chipped into it. I don't like I'm not a f**k.

But like no one ever talks about the hourly net pay, which really is, because you don't get hours back, but money renews monthly. So every month someone puts money in your bank and says, I'd like all these hours please, but no one thinks about that. They think like, but it's 55 grand instead of 50. So, what was the point off the back of that? Did you move your working in a job that allowed you? Oh yeah, so like, you're in this position,

you don't like your job, what do you do? I would say, do you have anything in your job now that you are much better than your peers at? So I think a lot of people have a skill that they might be outstanding at, for example, that's a specific skill. And you think, well, could I go and just do that somewhere else, for example?

It may be not chase the number, but in such as chase the interest. And this is, I mentioned this in the last podcast about what Alan Watts speaks about, like if you are genuinely really good at something, firstly, you enjoy doing it because you'll feel competent, you'll feel like you're adding value. And if you're very good at it, chances are you'll be able to command a good salary or a good fee or whatever. So that may then manifest in a business or we may need that skill may be required in another business. So like people who are interested in photography, for example, who might be exception to get at that might go and do that

for another business or go do it themselves or whatever. But I think the decision to set up your own business has to be a desire to want to do that. I think that if that if there's not a natural like I really want to do that, then I think it's probably a bad idea. Did not probably as well if your particular passion or whatever it is that you have this pull towards doing for a profession can't be facilitated by somebody else. Yeah. So yeah, with me I couldn't go work for it.

Couldn't go work for another promo company running these events in these clubs because they didn't exist. Yeah, and we were the same. Yeah, yeah. So, I think that probably comes from pursuing an interest rather than a salary. And if it turns out financially successful, from pursuing an interest rather than a salary.

And if it turns out financially successful, that's kind of a side benefit. Yeah, on a point about the salary thing, my flatmate at university went out of uni and went straight into, so he did it, this was 13 years ago, 12 years ago. So it would have been before placement years were quite as ubiquitous as they are now,

that pretty much everyone that I know Either does a gap year where they'll go traveling or does a placement year in industry or whatever it might be Especially in business relate degrees. Um, he 21 years old out of university wet behind the years I'd lived at boarding school throughout all of like 13 to 18 as well So it just being completely Insulated for all this time well-rounded guy went straight over the university, straight into the Aldi graduate scheme, which is 60 grand a year

with a free Aldi. But no one told him 70 hours a week and he'd be travelling all over the northeast. Yeah, I remember, I knew a few people who, it wasn't Aldi, I think maybe Tesco, did a similar one. But the Aldi was the one that everyone spoke about, was being like... Because the salary was a mental salary. I remember that as well, like thinking like, oh, Aldi's. But people not sent to like Bradford for six months, no warning. And you're like, all right, you just... You know what, the like, un-ramping process was for that, you had to spend the first two days

as a checkout assistant. You have to work your way up from the bottom of the day. But you just do it like an unbelievably accelerated. Yeah. It's like you move through someone's career of just 15 years in the space of like two months. That's quite clever actually. It's cool. You get full stack experience.

We said it on business principles 101, you need to understand everything from the grandpa or whatever. So that's a mission to the manager. That makes sense. So this guy was in OTC, so he's an officer training corps. There's a hard guy, like fucking could stick stuff out was the heavier guy and he was

21 years old with 60 grand a year coming in and Audi A4 parked outside. Lasted six months. Yeah. Lasted for as long as his probation was through so that it didn't look like he quit the first hurdle. Gone. for as long as his probation was through, so that it didn't look like he quit the first hurdle. Gone. So when that sort of thing isn't right for you,

it's interesting. One question that comes to mind at the moment, do you think that there is a job out there for everybody to like a job that someone loves out there for everybody? Probably not. I agree. Yeah. I think that there's this like, you know, you can get paid for your passion and everybody

can just monetize what they love, man. And it's like, I still fucking need my street cleaned. I still fucking need that. That's a different question. That's, is there a person for every job versus is there a job for every person? And I think the problem is that everyone wants to be an Instagram influencer juice plus coach. But maybe not. But there's vast demand for certain jobs and there's very little. So like we know someone who very cleverly, so he's a smart guy had an option to go into investment banking

or corporate jobs and instead said, I'm going to go into construction because I have this level of interest and drive in something that I know that if I were to apply it to investment banking, I would be in a sea of extreme competition and not get anywhere, whereas if I enter more of a blue ocean and really pound it in the construction management sector. So he saw a week competition professionally in a particular sector. So it's really then, like, if you're willing to do a job that is kind of boring or un-sexy, like, so I know someone else who runs a portaloo business and he's doing really well because like it's not a sexy, but he doesn't care. That's still kind of hunting for the

for the paycheck, isn't it? Like that, I suppose it is all just about, so it's kind of the, it's the mark, man some sort of not giving the fuck it's like it's what you're willing to tolerate. So you know there's a port partner, book where he talks about like the The person who loves the 95 job is the person who is all right with the shit things about the 95 job The person who's good as an entrepreneur is a person who's all right with the fact that like next month You might make no money. He might make no money. No, you know next month. That's six months. You might be out of business I like that because they're there's no value judgment supplied to either one. It's like what is your tolerance for uncertainty or for yeah, you know security So that's it. That's the next literally the next question like the what we're talking about is should I work for myself choosing the role the relative benefit versus risk or downsides

No, I said to you, if that I had a special question for him. Right, he's not like, I'll do it now. I'll do it now. So I wanted to ask Yusif about specific Arabic approaches to business because Yusif is mine in Johnny's window into the Arab world. And I just wondered if you have any family members or any friends that are Arab who have a particular approach to business and if you had anything, I mean signature to do with their style. To do with Arab business style, I mean my Arab family still believe that homosexuality is a disease that is spread through advertising on the internet. So, like, is this the 1660s?

But, you can have to at least a day on Arab business principles. Arab approaches to business. I'm sure there was a module at uni where you could study like because they got a different banking rules. No, no, I don't mean I mean cultural approaches to not Islamic finance principles because that is a very that's a thing in itself. I wrote a dissertation on that. Oh right, that's not right.

No, not that. Not the thing that I know loads about. No, I mean, the thing that he doesn't know anything about that you would like him to. Yes, go ahead. Yeah. Like if you made your brother run a business. Okay.

Or your sister. Yeah, that's it. Right, so my brother has done business in Egypt and they're very much about like, oh, coming, honey, we will do a big deal with you again, like making big promises and not actually delivering on them. Or is that just part and part? What happens when they don't deliver and you go back and you say, everyone's just late and kind of this is Egypt. But also, there is more of a sense of like, maybe it's a political climate, but there's a situation

where like entrepreneurial characters will create jobs for themselves out of exploitation. So like, you'll have people who are employed by malls to open automatic doors for people. So the automatic doors are there, look at it. As you walk in the back. You're fucking kidding. Just because they have to fill up their numbers, so that the mall has to set a certain number of employees for their things.

So there's a man who waves at the sensor. Yeah, for people, like, they're getting ticked. Once a tip, yeah. But then there are other people who will just create their own so that in the street, they might, like, you'll be parking and they'll stand behind you and be like, yeah, yeah, But then there are other people who will just create their own so that in the street they might like, you'll be parking and they'll like stand behind you and be like, yeah, yeah, I'm fine. And you've got to be like, I don't need you help. I'm fine. And then basically they're blackmailing you because if you leave and you don't tip them, they can. Yeah. Well, it's a dysfunctional all that's it's the same. And I am around these guys

all the time and they're lovely. I just wish that they would go and work behind the bar Toilet attendance in nightclubs Okay, so similar approach. I just I'd like you know get your car key. I Want to get my own pay-per-tale. I want to put the soap on my own hands Like I don't want to feel guilty every time that I go to the bathroom. When I work in clubs, like if I were doing what they do, I would invest like the first week's wages or how long it takes and I would buy an IZEPL contact was point to pay. Because like, and I say how much do you want it? I'm not sure that all of these guys are

running legit. It doesn't matter about that. I know what you're saying, but like how many people have a couple of quid? How many people have a contact with Card or an iPhone or... So this is a controversial or more? Even if it's now taxed. God forbid. No, I'm not. This is a controversial point though.

I've heard someone describing homeless people as trading in guilt or trading. I was in a blog post. Trading in shame. It was an old coach that I had that said that. I was like, it took me a while to kind of get around what he was saying. But I support, homeless people,

I don't think they are trading in shame. I think they have no choice. But the people in the... The other tenants. Yeah. That you write the social cost of leaving is like, well, he did get the paper towel for me even though I didn't want them to. It's imposing a service on you.

Or like in America, if you've been to New York, you get people go, you'll like rap music, you get by my CD and you're like, no, no, no. And so it's like... So it's homeless people in America do this a lot. I've just come back to America and when someone has no other option is when I'm like, come on, like get your hustle and like I'm sweet, as long as it's not stealing, it's not illegal, like if you can make some cash then fantastic. But when we were in a soft top car and guys would come up with like their dirty rag t-shirt and be like, hey man you want your car washed? I'm like, man, I'm fucking red light.

How washed are you going to be able to get the car in the next 15 seconds? Yeah, with that little bucket that I've just seen you take off. It's a important business principle behind that isn't there, which is don't force something on the market when there's no demand for it. Do you have all the shit service in the market? It doesn't work. Yeah, it's not for you to decide what the market should have and should want. It's like you look for the demand and you redirect it to your service because you offer

a better option than the other. There was a better, it's invagous. It was just down in there going, does anybody have any money for hookers and cocaine? And I've never felt more pulling to just go, because you made me laugh, and I thought, so he's redirected the balls on that guy to just, this is what I'm gonna do with the money, you can have some money,

and he looked like from his little collection, he looked like we're doing all right. He heard George Collin address that, where he's like, when people say, like, oh, when you see a homeless guy, and they're like, oh, I'm not giving him any money, he's just gonna spend it on cigarettes and alcohol. He's like, well, that's what I'm gonna spend it on.

Like, what else do you think he's gonna spend it on? Like, he's not gonna go buy some real estate, is he? So, like, that was a point that Rory Sutherland made about the fact that if you give money to people in small amounts, they will buy immediately gratifying things because in small increments, money can only give you small amounts of happiness. Conversely, people think don't give people from low incomes, like all of their years allowance of like payments in one go because they're just gonna spunk it all and do whatever but the

converse is actually shown to be true that if you give someone a hundred pounds every week that they'll just keep on buying facts if you give someone five thousand two hundred pounds to actually think oh my god I've got five thousand two hundred pounds look at all of the things I can do with this £5,200. That's so interesting. I should save some. Yeah, I can invest some, I can buy, oh I should buy a bike and then I can get to work and then I can have a bike. Yeah, as opposed to, what can you do with 100 quid a week? Like, get yourself pissed and have a tub.

There's a wine comes. Wine comes. So what do you do? And fudge. A bit of fudge. So, our big approaches to business, we've got the fact that they're a bit like forthcoming and everyone kind of plays the big man, anything else, any of those sort of signature.

Playing the big man over promising under delivering. It's very macho kind of not wanting to lose face and being very like a quite chest beat. Is everyone does everyone wear shirts that are open down to the start? I'm massively generalising, but that's not the point that's what we're trying to do here. I'm at a very hard negotiation, shouting. That's what we're trying to do here. I imagine very hard negotiations, shouting. Very passionate. But then again, like...

Dax Wax. But like... He's really cream. Then again, like, you know, all our countries are countries that operate functionally and have a full spectrum of people. So there are very, you know, sensible quiet business people that work for kind of corporate... What we want to hear about in the film. Who's wants you to pretend that all is just like Cuban drug dealers. Yeah, just like,

that's what I like. I thought what? I'm like, tell them that's what we thought. Thank you. Right, getting back to whether or not we should work for ourselves. So relative benefit versus risk, we just touched on it there.

I think personal preference and actual approach to risk is a big part of this. Like, can you deal with potentially going for two months or three months without earning any money? That's both a financial question and a psychological question. Like, are you able to take the concern of fuck, I might make no money this month, and then I might not make any money next month, despite having done 40 hours of work with it. That's why I could never be a trader. Can't be a trader. Every time I try and trade, every time that I try and trade, can't do it. So this is a case of what's your threshold, because trade, even full-time traders say, don't trade for income, trade for wealth creation,

wealth, like growth of capital, but have a separate income. Because if you're reliant on your monthly paycheck is dependent on your profits from trading day to day, and you're watching that, that horribly stressful red candlestick. Oh, it's the same reason why surgeons aren't allowed to operate on family members. Is that true?

I imagine so, yeah, like... You just can't see the wood for the trees, can you? You just panicking. So, yeah, by yourself or do something stupid. If I was a full-time trader, my... Anus... Like, Mike... Anus would be...

They could constantly pulsating. You'd be soft. The boys laughing because the couple of forays I have made into trading have been Bro trading. You really well. I did do really well. I like the trailer for the new Call of Duty game, so I bought some Activision in it. That's a really smart play and I better work

out really well. There you go. All these people looking at like GDP forecasts and you just like, well, Call of Duty comes out in a month, so all these traders are going to miss that. Anton, come and talk to him. Anton, yeah, what else? What are some of the other things that people need to consider? So we're talking about sideways move from your current job, which you hate, into potentially another job, or then perhaps working for yourself. So, because even it's, sorry, to interject, even if you have a passion that you you like and you can monetize and do all the rest of it, if psychologically your profile doesn't allow you to have self-directed work and not have a boss who's laying out your structure for you, it's going to be difficult,

maybe you could get a PA who could try and structure a week, perhaps, or something like that. That guy who paid a PA, paid someone to slap him every time he went off task. Have you heard about this? No, I thought the ultimate Pomodoro discipline. Yeah, I thought one of you sent this article to me, is it a guy paid someone to just sit in a cafe and watch him work and slap him whenever he changed tab

or changed app or anything? And he said he didn't get slapped. That's what he said. That's what he said. Yeah, that's what he said. He was like, was it the most productive? So he only paid, he paid Piss-Flapp. Was it he paid per hour?

Per hour. That's that play for clicks or impressions, isn't it? Yes. However, that's what you said there about the sideways moves really interesting point. Because the first decision is, should I work for myself or should I not, can I tolerate the uncertainty of income? And then secondly, there is probably a lot of benefit, a lot of advantage to working for a small start up of five people or 10 people.

George is doing that. Yeah, so George is doing that. You're exposing yourself to a huge potential upside with maybe even if you can get a share in the company or whatever. George did that. But also, the sideways George. The sideways move, like if you're gonna, so like we were saying the Johnny, like going from accounting

to something that you can still leverage those skills, but in a different, at least go into the right sector, like go into something that you, slightly more aligned with what you wanna do. Was there a moment when you were like, right, this is it, I'm out of here? Apart from obviously, that moment was technically when you sent the

when you sent the message that said, I'm leaving. It's that you don't send a message, you go into an A-de-Z menu, go to R, click Resign, fill the form in the press yes. Wow. You know when you just feel like they're going, no, no, no, please don't go, please don't go. Was there a, this decision as permanent consequences? It felt very final. Was there a, this decision as permanent consequences? It felt very final. Was there a cancellation funnel?

No, there wasn't actually. There was nothing there. No objection, hardly. No. It's been my last point. Was it too expensive? Was it? Are you sure?

And then the, are you sure, button was in the opposite color to the one that you think it is? It's green, green, green, green. Are you sure you want to resign? No. Oh, God. This dark patterns. I remember filling out the form, Becca was in the shower and I was like, I better yeah, press like, I've only got a resign, I was actually going, I'm having, definitely

an issue, I was like, yeah, well, I'm like, thanks Becca. I was in the like, there's the immediate moment like, what have I done? And you're like, there's the, the immediate moment, like, what have I done? And you're like, actually, this is exciting. Started whistling. Immediately. But the, I tried, before I left, I tried to do something within the firm that was like a bit more in line with what I found interesting. So it was like, they were looking at bringing in your, those of you, um,

like AI and smart technology and stuff. And they were looking for a team those new AI and smart technology and stuff and they were looking for a team of people that are like front that. And I got offered the role to do it, to be on that team, that go down London and like, you get to see the Canary Warfoffice and it is like super like fucking out of this is awesome. Cool. Got offered that and then told my like line manager, so I'm going to do him. She was like, oh yeah cool, but like you're doing that on top of your

audit work. Right. Fine. So I literally thought at that moment, like, I'm quitting. I didn't say it to her. But and then she I then spoke to her on the phone and I said, would they be able to enforce that? Like if you just said no, like they want me, I can. No, because it's all under the same. There is a call that they do, where they'd say, like, what are you going to do? Like, we can talk about matching salary, and what's that? Like, you know, who, where are you going to work? It's like, I'm actually, I'm going to, going home to sit in my place. I mean, start and try and grow an online fitness business. And she was just like,

all right. Well, I can't compete with that. What was yours, you saw? Very, very similar. It was like 70, 70 bossing it. So it was throughout the year, having to keep it completely under wraps that I'm applying to medical school because it, obviously, it would be the end of the job because you're on like a training program where they're investing a lot in you. Even flatmates didn't know, families didn't really know. I think Johnny knew towards the end.

Fuck me, so you've gone through like full Egyptian secret service. Prowackops bodybuilding project. Oh, stuff mode. And like preparing for this entrance exam, which was like every day after work, four hours weekends, just all waking times, pounding it through a whole

time. And then when I passed it, I was like, right, I've got like three weeks to give him a notice and then to get set up. So I sent the button email, as soon as I got the result, I can have a chat with you on Monday, met up on Monday, sat down in the little room and she was like, so you're quitting, yeah, like joking and I was like Yeah She was like, oh, you're not kidding, okay, what are you going to do? I was like, you're going to go study medicine? She was like, oh, thank god, I thought you were about to see what a wonderful Goldman. Okay.

Well, I can't compete with this. So, I good luck, but you must specialize. Okay, don't be GP. You're GP. Yeah. Hello, girl. Was there a moment when you knew that you wanted to not do black rock and to go and do quite early on in black rock?

Okay, because I'm just trying to find that identifier. Yeah, so first of all, it's like that you go to New York, you see the intense passion everyone has for the job. Like it's only for a month in New York and you have to do like a bunch of the job. Like, it's only for a month in New York and you have to do like a bunch of induction stuff. And you see people there who are just all like Harvard, Yale, Princeton, super, like masters in various financial sciences and really just so passionate about the stuff and fucking love it. They absolutely get such a stiffer over it. And like people, like, they'll have high, high powered execs from different parts of the company coming in. And they're like bursting

for these questions. What do you think about like potassium exports in Kazakhstan? You're like, oh man, mate, do you think I'm a fucking prick? And then you try to over break for some, oh this is a nice breakfast and they're like, yeah so what do you think about fixed income in Europe? I'm really interested in bond pricing. And so you just think, like, you can't maintain this. And then once you get back, you look at the progression, the people who are 10 years ahead of you, you think, I don't want like, this is the direction that you set on. You don't want to be that person or you don't want to like,

nothing about this whole path as we try to. You didn't want to be that person right then. Yeah, so 10 years of that person. As if it gets better, but it doesn't. Yeah. Because I think like, I remember thinking like, what is the best case scenario that I stay here and everything goes perfectly?

What will be happening? And I like, I'll be round that corner, much older than I am now, having been here for ages, I'll still be looking at a very similar laptop, just looking at slightly different spreadsheets. And I've got a lot more on screen as well. One screen, yeah. Oh, they have, sometimes they give them a VGA,

VGA, or ABA, HGM, I know. But a lot more responsibility, a lot more money, but like, same building, longer hours, more lot more money, but like same building longer hours, like your life's exactly the same. Just went in the time that you have when you get home before you're in a bed, like if you want, you can buy like really posh things online. And then at the end of the week, it sells all to, like sells like loads of it. And then like you go on nice holidays, so in the 25 days a week that they give you.

Yeah. Sorry, yeah. I wish. That would be a minute. Yeah. 25 days a year that you can spend out of the work. You can go somewhere that costs you more money. So I spend all of my holiday time, like standing in surgery, like shadowing surgery,

it's like a pre-application thing. But how did you have a nice holiday? You're like, yeah? Watch loads of, um can't thank you. It's amazing, kids. Yeah. But I think if the best case scenario isn't like, wow, then like, what's the point?

Yeah, definitely. Like you might as well. So I thought like, I'm just gonna position myself and something where I'm like, if that really works out, that'll be in class. That's the George McPhill approach, isn't it? What decision would produce the most luck and just go into it? Yeah, yeah. It's the George McGill approach isn't it? What decision would produce the most luck and just go into it? Yeah, it's such a great metric. Well, I'm like, you in a job, you have someone decides you're upside for you and your upside is on a trajectory. You can't really accelerate

that. You can't do a year faster. Yeah. How fast does the trajectory? Like, it's three years to qualifying and then it's like normally two years and you make manager then then it's a certain amount of time manager. And you make, obviously, yeah, and most people leave. That's the business. But it's so, it's so weird, isn't it? Like that you progression because there's so many people screaming off the top. And because progression is based in a lot of bureaucratic organizations based on seniority, not on capability. It's based on time served a lot of the time. Because otherwise, you would employ grads, and then the smartest grad, you would just take them up here and give them the big, like, if he's legitimately smarter than all

the management, then why would you not remember him? But he's got a half of the time experience. But yeah, but there are points at which, like, even experiences outpaced by intelligence. But the this idea that like you can't really accelerate that. So the going to be in there for that amount of time anyway. You don't really like that. Then I don't know. I think it's a lot to do with the way that people are wired and yeah, I hope the people I'm getting like triggered by well, like you can be,

but this is just our experience. It's the way that it's the way that, it's the way that, and it's the fact that all three of us are wide the same way, but I think a lot more people are than think that they are. I certainly, like a lot of my friends are working in accounts, he jobs, and, you know, seem to, at least they don't say to me, like, I hate it, but I don't know,

I'm suppressing my feelings, like, they seem to like it, and we disagree on it. But, you know, that's a preference. That's a preference, yeah. Like, I think it's, you know, that's a preference. That's a preference, yeah. Like, I think it's interesting that I feel like I get a lot of judgment about what I'm doing. I judge them, I suppose.

But like, as long as they enjoy it, I think it's great. So I think maybe going back to the Daniel Sluss Jigsaw analogy, like different people value different things, right? Like those people, it was totally like you said about Jiggy Mufu that he had a job which facilitated him to do the things he cared about, which happened to be his side projects

of training and doing acrobatics and other things like that. Other people might really fucking love their family. Their family might be a huge bit out of their thing, as long as they've got the money that they need to be able to tick life on and then spend time because they've got a massive family, I really love the brothers and sisters or Mum and Dad or their boyfriend or girlfriend or future wife or whatever. Sick. That's fantastic. We are three slightly autistic young men with no family and so what our preferences

are, it doesn't... Well I need to, weirdly enough. We fill the void I say this all the time like Darren my business partner has a family He has two dogs and a wife and now two beautiful big boys I also have a family minor just businesses and projects on the side I have a podcast and I do my modeling and I do traveling and I do, you know, to roll it out, I do property and blah, blah. Like that's my surrogate family because I think that a lot of people have this pent up, forward momentum that they need to invest into something

and they might invest it into dog football team, some sort of passion, they might invest it into family, like growth of the home unit, whatever it might be, or they might invest it into business. And it's weird that there is your right, there's this weird sort of value judgment about, well, Gary V. Hustle and Grindr says that you've, you know, if you're not making a business then it's fucking bullshit mate and you're just working for the man. It's like, well no, if you value the stuff that's outside of working for the man, crack on because the man's going to facilitate you, because you can turn up to work, you have

to do something catastrophically fucking shit to not get a paycheck at the end of the month. You have to get fired, which is actually a legal process, which is a nightmare. To fire someone is difficult. Lemon. Lemon difficult. What was I about to say? Oh yeah, I think the...

So there's definitely judgements both sides. I think entrepreneurs judge people and jobs because it's like... Working for the man, mate. Yeah, and people and jobs judge entrepreneurs because they're like, oh, didn't work in front of the family. I'm not sure that man may. And like, people and jobs, judge on to careers because like, I waste man, I never do anything. Yeah. But I think the only time I need to shame on both sides is when people are doing something

and they're just like, shagging their short term, everything. Because they are so entranced by this idea that like, when I in X, I will, it will all be brilliant. And like, when I in X I will. It will all be brilliant. And like something that happens when you are running your own business is your expose to

like when you're in an salary, like you get like two grand, two grand, two grand, two grand, like yeah, you get a bit of savings and maybe get a bonus. But when you're on to printed, like you might, you're revenue list. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no an entrepreneur, like you might, you're revenue. No, run. No, run. Run you this, but then you might be this, and it might be this. So like this month, and you, I don't think you know this, maybe this is the biggest revenue month we've ever had in Propheum. Congratulations. Well, yeah, but like, I don't care. And I thought I would.

Well, yeah, but like, I don't care. And I thought I would. Like, I remember the entire time doing this thinking, like, when we pass X, I'll be so, but like, I live in a reality where you're proven that it just doesn't affect anything. Like, there's a number on a spreadsheet somewhere that's different, and it's passed a mark that you set for yourself arbitrarily.

When you think of your life like that, you think like, well, what would be different? Like, I'd wake up and I'd have a coffee and I'd already buy the coffee. Yeah. Would I buy a nicer coffee? Well, I mean, I don't have a coffee at all, but like... I'm not a nutter. I'm not a nutter. I'm just like... But then you're like, oh, I put on a pair of shoes.

Like, would I buy a nice pair of shoes? Okay, if I did, could I buy a new one? You probably could afford all the little upgrades that you want now. Like Mr. Money Mustache. Oh yeah, well he says just get the upgrades immediately as soon as he's like, he has like a really nice coffee,

you know, really nice piece of chocolate and it costs him like a quid more. Yeah, but his quality of life is like, so then if you, if you, if your income is to double, what else would you do? So this is something that I think about a lot, and it's something I've talked about a lot as well, to shame that I've not done this at the start of the podcast,

but the relative difference between how materialistic you are and your means to be able to get that end is one of the biggest determinants I think in terms of someone's satisfaction, especially now. Like if you're very materialistic, but you don't have the means, big, big satan. Cosastrophe. Like if you, if you've, because I don't know, I don't know whether you could class it as like a genetic predisposition, but it's certainly something that your family will

have instilled in you. If your family always bought nice things, if there was an atmosphere of keeping up with the Joneses, if prudence was kind of looked down on or just wasn't something that was drilled in, then you are going to have a higher natural level of spending than we do. Like all of us here are quite scrimpers and savers. And if that's you, you need to get your fucking nose to the grindstone because you're going to be unhappy because there is... If you have a high preference for... For spends stuff. Yeah, if you like nice things, if you always have to have Gucci sliders and you always have to have that sort of stuff, you better hope that you're going to get a fucking good job.

Well, the fact that I walked in in this t-shirt, you both were like, that's not your t-shirt. Well the fact that I walked in in this t-shirt, you both were like, that's not your t-shirt. Yeah, it says that I find I spend a lot less on stuff I thought I'd spend money on. So I thought I'd spend money on constantly getting new clothes and constantly, I thought I would have like, laptop, the latest laptops and all that sort of stuff, but actually the stuff I spend, like, disproportionate amounts of money. It's like in training courses. Cool, yeah. I don't like, and yeah, I do have moments where I'm like, well, why am I doing this?

And it's not because I can earn more money, so I can buy more courses. Yeah, it's, I just like find it really interesting. And when you just, when you just like in a world where it's just all just really interesting. Well, you always make a return on investing in yourself. In some way, so yeah, especially business coaching or business or anything. Unless you buy the £4,000 down to £350. What was that one? The ultimate bundle. You just got fully upsold, went on a website. I think 50. Oh, but it was like down to down to this.

Yeah, it was like 1,9997. 99.8% off or something. And it was a reason. So, yeah, materialism means to achieve that, or to get to that is like a real big thing. And I'm very thankful that I don't have that. I've had the same car now for four and a half years. I think it's like, no. I had a Renault Black Mac and there was an RS

and then after that I had the Audi soft top and then I've got this. But like, to the point where I've forgotten the RS car too. So it's been that time but in that same time I've got four houses. Like because for me, and even that's not about wealth creation, it's about I am liberating myself from industry, which is very fickle, and I just feel like I'm less at the mercy of something that's like that. But yeah, what we all do in companies that like hockey sticked and went mental growth wise would not be all by Lamborghini's. We'd probably all be

like right, like who can we bring into the team? Like let's get this office because it'd be cool. We might get one Lamborghini. Maybe like maybe it will show on. But like, you know what I mean? You wouldn't get one Lamborghini. If you had 50 million pounds, would you get a lamb again? It does interest me that like, what is the amount at which that seems like? Like what percentage of your ass of your turvy work would you? That's a very good one. Let's do it as the next thought experiment in business 103. How much money does he set up to have to spend any of it frivolously? one or three. How much money does he use it for the whole time to spend any of it frivolously? Oh gosh, that's another point. Oh yeah, so all of us have been in situation so you're, is your training story? It's on my life, you're with fails. So like you were,

you were put in a position that again, so like the reason I referenced the revenue thing is I just don't think, unless you like have this big windfall like inheritance or something, people aren't presented with like, X amount of money and then 10 times that, suddenly, it doesn't really happen in life. But if we all been in a situation where something like that's happened, has it affected your happiness? Have you suddenly thought like,

oh, so much happy life's complete now. I don't know if you could do anything else. Does that really well-sited study in America, isn't it? I think it's $75,000 in America or $50,000? It's half a thousand pounds. $50,000 pounds per year is the point at which an increase in salary essentially has no impact on your amount of happiness. Mentalized.

Yeah. $50,000, you hear that? You think, what? It's a fuck off, man. Yeah. That's quite scary. And 50 fifth year was pitching for everyone's like driving towards, especially people who were already over that. He was still going for more,

even though data suggests. And their past experience, like which is even more vulnerable to those people. But yeah, crazy. So suppose if you're in a job, you're thinking about leaving it and you've experienced a paradise and your happiness hasn't increased in proportion to the paradise, leave.

There we go. Any other point, so I'm not professional, do you not take my advice? Yes, serious advice. So you know like Daniel Sloss has the number of divorces and breakups that Jigsaw has caused in his Twitter bio. Like if we start totting up the number of people that have left their jobs to get, do not ring me, I repeat.

Do not ring me and tell me that you've left your job because of this. Have a strong and frank discussion with all of your friends and then message me at Chris Willex on all of this. Or just in a role at proper business and teach you how. We've had a lot of people that have quit their jobs over the last few months. Because of their revenue, just kicking me.

It's so bolozy. But the other thing as well as consider, which is a total other element to this, is most jobs. In the same way that Jude, you move who had his most normal jobs that don't take up too much of your time, will not prohibit you from starting a business outside. Yeah. Why can you not? Because the inevitably the first two years,

no matter how fucking good your business is, the first year of it, especially if you've never done business before, the first two, three years of it, you're going to see growth at a pace which is so slow, it's fucking unrecognizable. You see most of the time, statistically you'll see big losses in the first year. Yeah, definitely. Lots of business are lost making up to a million quid revenue. Bonkers. Bonkers.

Like big businesses. Like that, remember that the book is a book that's really well known book called ReadyFire A, which talks about like challenge from zero to a million acquiring a base of customers to generate a million revenue. But it would be a lot to make. But challenge from a million to 10 million, just trying to become profitable. Fuck me. I can't get my head around it.

But yeah, you're right. You can't, there are things you can wake up and do in your 10-hour day, how long you want to work. But that's not going to make the business grow any faster. Chances are. And as you're doing like really running, you're generating things. That's one of the things people are saying about the podcast, I hate man, like, so what

you're going to do, you're going to start doing that more. And like, ads on it. Yeah. Well, I like doing it more. What's more? Like, what's more? Like, produce more than two episodes a week. There's an upper limit on how much time people can listen and I think that's about twice a week if I'm wrong

Tell me but I don't think I'm not wrong So like what the fuck am I gonna do? Yeah, upgraded the fucking production quality, but that's just a matter of investing in kit What would I like if I was doing the fucking podcast full-time? What would I do? You do differently just write up loads of really really fucking well-prepared notes. That's why the top podcasts are not purely profit-based. Like, they are, they started and probably still are very much passion projects people. And, you know, like the Joe Rogan one kind of has become profitable as a result, but I'm sure he's turned away a lot of sponsors and things like that've been to someone's tried to put him onto an exclusive podcast network. So, you know, like I have radio or something like you have to you have to download the app to listen

to Joe Rogan. Like, and that would be worth to any company. It would be worth a stupid amount of money. So you're great for him personally, but he's he's he's beyond probably beyond the 58,000 pounds of food. I think I'm the... But it would be great for any personally, but terrible for his legacy. Yeah. He's a point where like brand is more important than revenue really, in terms like short-term. I think it's always been that way. As even if you were viewing it purely financially, it was like, do we make a decision short-term? He can monetize harder, even if it was financial.

Yeah. It would have to be, it would be an inordinate amount of money. Yeah. Like Arab shake money. Oh, right. Yeah, like billions. On a side point, if you've seen the video,

where someone's cut all of the times that Donald Trump has said the word billions. I have, yeah. Billions and billions and billions. How is long, wouldn't it? It's about 10 minutes long. A lot of billions. Yeah.

I remember hearing Jim Wendler, who made 531, like the strength program on the internet. He did like a 30 minute video about like business. And he's a super like, like no bullshit. Being potatoes, like big bald bearded powerlifter, done lots of drugs, very honest about it, extremely shrunk, squat a thousand pounds. Like, you know, a thousand, a thousand, a thousand. A thousand, a thousand of us.

You don't get to that point by like getting sucked in by fads. Like that man has squatted, until he's squatting a thousand pounds. And he just said, when you're starting, just don't do it for income. Don't do it to be your income source because you just make decisions that prioritize getting money in now over the long-term trajectory, which is why we talk about like have your freedom number, the number that you have, the revenue has to get to you for your right.

I could leave if I wanted to. So know what that is for you, know what your costs are, build your business to that point, and then either you've doubled your income or great, you can leave and maintain your income. Also great, like zero downside, infinite upside. That's a really nice little rule. Well, I hope that we've done a massive one. I hope that we've helped some people in understanding where they're at with their career and stuff like that at the moment. I think we had some questions in me, we have had some questions submitted, I promise that we will get round to them. We might have to peel off a little bit of business principles one or three so that we can do them. Any stuff that you want us to speak about, whatever the topics are, whatever the issues are that you're encountering with career or business,

feel free to leave it in the comments below and do not forget to get a lovely buttery saw ass from SoRite, they will send out one of their great manipulation tools to one person who leaves us a review. On iTunes or wherever else you are listening, so leave the review there. And I'll choose someone and let you know. Offense, yeah, offense