Modern Wisdom - #207 - David Birtwhistle - What It Feels Like To Become Famous

Episode Date: August 8, 2020

David Birtwhistle is a PT and star of Netflix's Too Hot To Handle. The entire world is obsessed with blue ticks and follower counts, fame "by any means" is a goal desired by many in 2020. But is notoriety for no reason worth it? A huge thank you to my Patrons: Lisa Sproat, Lewys Jones, James Wick, Oliver Robson, Matthew Osborn, Alex Baker, Stephen Mulvey, Rob Murray, Sami Hossny, Kat, Lee Brown, Alex Smith Preson, Kieran Moran, Carrie Murrell, Karen Allan, John Stevens, Sam Billings, Suzi, Jack Revell, Megan, Kirk Grewar, Tim Merchant, James Fitt, Sean Spooner, Erin Guy, Stephen Rucastle & Paul Kirkham. Sponsor: Sign up to FitBook at https://fitbook.co.uk/join-fitbook/ (enter code MODERNWISDOM for 50% off your membership) Extra Stuff: Check out David's website - https://david-birtwistle.com/ Follow David on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/david.birtwistle Get my free Ultimate Life Hacks List to 10x your daily productivity → https://chriswillx.com/lifehacks/ To support me on Patreon (thank you): https://www.patreon.com/modernwisdom - Get in touch. Join the discussion with me and other like minded listeners in the episode comments on the MW YouTube Channel or message me... Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chriswillx Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/chriswillx YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/ModernWisdomPodcast Email: https://www.chriswillx.com/contact Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Oh yes, hello my friends with functioning ankles in podcast land. Welcome back. By way of an update on my situation, I've got a surgery date booked in which is Wednesday coming. So this Wednesday I will be going under the knife and then out of action for a little while. Hopefully me and video guide, I'm going to be able to compensate the publishing schedule so that normal service is not interrupted all that much. I know that it might seem a little bit like I've got my priorities the wrong way around to be talking about publishing a podcast whilst I'm getting my ankle knitted back together. But it's important for me to keep putting out something that I care about. It's going to help to hold me accountable and also it's going to give me a reason to get up in the morning. So we will see what sort of desk adjustments I can make if I'm going to be able to podcast whilst being horizontal is a logistical problem me and

video guide in working on at the moment. But yes, hopefully this show will not be too affected, but obviously I will keep you updated. On to today's guest, David Bertwistle is the star of Netflix's summer dating show Too Hot To Handle, who's at the number one rated show across the planet for a little while, and I thought it would be a good opportunity to sit down with a kindred spirit who's also been through the mill, been through the ringer to deal with the reality TV dating world, and discuss how fame and notoriety have kind of been weaponized in the modern world. People look at someone who's gone on Love Island or reality TV show and think, oh my god, look at that.

They've got a blue tick. Life must be amazing. They've unlimited amounts of charcoal toothpaste. It must be so good. They're with Wayne Linnaker again, again, at Ocean Beach. This is amazing, but it's famed something that anyone should be searching for. What is the difference between being someone

and doing something? It's an oddly esoteric and quite sort of existential philosophical conversation that we have today. I was pleasantly surprised to speak to someone who I think is... Cut from the same cloth as me when it comes to viewing the way that fame and reality TV is kind of affecting modern culture. But for now, it's time for the wise and wonderful David Bertwistle Blue Take Wanker Club in the building. What the fuck's happening?

Reality TV Wank Club, here we are. Okay, we've joined an elusive club of people that have known for probably the wrong reasons. But none for all of the wrong reasons, I think, here you are very correct. So today one of the things I wanted to speak about, a lot of people will know you from a recent Netflix series which was called Too Hot To Handle. It took me through that then. It took me through the experience of being on that

because yours, unlike Love Island, which was my experience on reality TV, yours was a pre-record, right? You were on that a while ago and now it's just come out. Yeah, we recorded it in 2019 in April. So it was a long time ago and then it came out a year later. So yeah, the experience of actually filming it was awesome. Like the show itself, the production team were great and the cast were great, actually had a really good time. So like coming out of it, I already thought to myself,

like if this doesn't do very well in the ratings or anything, like I've already gained personal experience from this, that's going to like help shape my life a little bit. So that was really cool. And then yeah, like a year later, the show launches worldwide on Netflix and explodes. And like, yeah, just it was like number one in 10 top countries for like a week. Crazy.

Crazy. Yeah. Like America, the UK, South Africa, Australia, Japan, Italy, like the low-to-plated Brazil, it just exploded. It was absolutely mental. It's funny that it's distributed geographically, because usually like, love Island or big brother or whatever is broadcast on a network within a country.

And that means that the people that know about the cast members and the storylines geographically quite confined. Whereas this situation is so dispersed. You're talking about people in fucking Italy, like America, like everyone knows a little bit, but do you know what I mean? Mate, it's crazy, it's absolutely crazy. There's like, yeah, it really is a worldwide audience. You know, that people that comment on my post and that engage with me on social media

are from everywhere, like Taiwan, Korea, Russia, you know, New Zealand, Australia, Kenya, literally like all over the world. And it is mental to think that that many people of different origins have seen my face. It's crazy. Power and Netflix, man. Power and Netflix, obviously. I know. They exploded it. It was crazy. Crazy, crazy, crazy.

There are a bunch of beasts. Talk to me about what, what's some of the lessons that you've learned then, since either from being on the show or from coming, like it being released and then you're reflecting upon this kind of ascension into notoriety. I think that the main lesson I've learned is that even if you have massive exposure,

I a big social media following, it doesn't mean that you're necessarily making a lot of money, firstly, and it doesn't necessarily set you up for success. I think there's this big assumption that if you've got a lot of followers, then you're somewhat successful. And although you might have done something very cool or good in order to achieve that follow account, you know, it doesn't necessarily mean that you're actually a successful business person or you've got all life figured out or anything like that. And so it was, it's almost like we kind of set ourselves up

because of the way the world is at the moment. To think that someone who has a lot of followers is killing it and they might not be, you know, like you have to have a business, you have to chase it, you have to work hard for it, like, you know, I came out of filming and then worked for a whole year to set up my coaching brand in devil life, put hours and hours and hours and thousands of pounds into that. And since the show has launched, I've like constantly been thinking like, what can I do?

Who should I be speaking to? Who should I, who should I talk to like podcasts? You know, this is a prime example, like speaking to you today. Chris, what do you mean? So that's who you should be speaking to, man. Exactly. You know, like speaking to the right people, engaging with the right things and also thinking like, how can I actually create a business or how can I have some longevity here and be smart about this. And that's not something that just happens. The same as any business, effectively, you have to work really hard to make something

happen. You just have marketing. So like a social media channel or a page or whatever that's really big is effectively just a marketing platform. And if you have that, you might be terrible at marketing and no one wants to buy anything off you and therefore you have a ship business. Just because you have the following doesn't mean that you're going to be successful. And that is interesting.

It's interesting being in the position of before and after. And now I'm like, oh yeah, but the things I want to do, no one's going to hand that to me. You know, I'm going to have to create everything and work hard. And it's effectively just giving me like a little bit of the step up, obviously. And like I do get opportunities that I wouldn't have got before. But you still have to work for it. It's not that things are given to you. You still have to do the thing and you still have to work hard and

those values that were instilled into me by my parents. Like I can't sit back and coast now because it's an opportunity that I've got to grab with two hands and work to make the most of. And it's a privilege and I can't really squander that. So I think that's the biggest thing I've learned is that before being a blue tick wanker and before having a bunch of exposure, I was there in the same positions everyone else

thinking, oh, that person must be making so much money. And people throw random numbers around like, oh, so-and-so, got paid X amount for their campaign with dinghy. And oh, yeah, they make this much money. And like, I mean, some people make a killing on social media. But it's still a job. It's a job.

It's a business. It's a career. And you have to work for it. And if you don't work for it, then you will fall by the wayside. People will not be interested in you. Companies will not want to work with you. And if you're not the right person, it's just not going to be very long term for you. So that's, it's been really interesting to kind of see that coming from before and after.

So I think like definitely a misconception. I couldn't agree, Mom. I think I think that what people that look at reality TV or the ascension of celebrity and fame in 2020, what most people see from the outside looking in is such a different world to what's going on inside and it's fucking cliche to be like, you know, everybody's got the challenges and stuff like this, but it's more than that. What I really wanted to kind of try and delve into today with you is to talk about what gives you satisfaction and happiness and stuff in life now. And the same for me as well, in a unique position, we're both in the unique position that

we've both had periods where most of a country or a couple of countries have known our names and known our faces. And to a lot of people, that sounds like you've made it, right? But fame for no reason. Like because it is famer any cost, it's famed for essentially just existing. I'm sure that you were like great on the show and came across as a nice guy, but there is probably like 3.5 million nice guys out there. Like that doesn't separate you at all. And what this ties into is what you're saying

there about the fact that you can have a big audience. But if they don't actually connect with you, all you've got is just traffic. Like traffic is, traffic is great. But if you send tons and tons of people to a site that's talking total shit, i.e. an account which doesn't have any virtue behind it, doesn't really care about what it's putting out there, is essentially only skin deep. Then no one's going to monetize on the back of it, no one's going to connect on the back of it. Like I said this story before and you may have like some equivalent stories as well about like so, so many people, all that they wanted to talk about as soon as I came off love island was, oh man, like you must be fucking you must be smashing it now

There must be just like loads of birds and you must just be you're making loads of money. Are you are you making loads of money? I mean like bro, what the fuck do you think this is like I'm not Dan Bills Aryan Got a blue ticking gone back to my normal life like the vast majority of stuff doesn't change I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry.

I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry.

I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. So I think what is what's your what are my values and how does it correlate well like people knowing who you are right? So like that is you know, some people throw the word are your famous a bit and I'm like now people some people just know who I am

Right, I don't think of it as anything else And I don't assume that anyone knows who I am. I it doesn't matter and Effectively, yeah, there's a bunch of nice guys out there. And that's cool. And I really just, I'm trying to just dive into who I am as a human being and use this as an opportunity to share some of the positive things that I think I've learned with the world and effectively give value to people through social media because I It's it honestly one of my biggest Like one of the things that pisses me off the most is

Influences put enough a picture of themselves and the caption being some semi-philosophical half-hearted complete Pollops that they don't live into like but like I was like a sentence, and it's like, sounds somewhat philosophical, but you know that they do not fully believe, live into and act upon that thing.

But you know, like, they've found that, or they've Googled mindful quote. Inspirational quote. Inspirational quote. And then copied and pasted it. Man, I'm totally part of Team Influencer Dickhead, Hatred here along with you. We're standing in the fucking,

we're standing in the Vanguard. We've got William Wallace. He's on his horse ride and up and down. Oh, hold, hold. And then there's me and you going, you're a fucking cunt and you're a fucking cunt and you're a fucking cunt. But you're totally right, man. Like I said, I said it ages ago, when when you get a platform of any size, any size at all, you should take

increasingly seriously, the quality of the message that you're putting out because the impact it has has proportionately gone up. But when you have three people that know who you are and what you do, say what you want. It doesn't impact that many people. If you're Elon Musk, you better be delivering some value on a second by second basis because you affect an impact so many people. And that's why, as you've said there, when you see someone who does have a really big platform, and I'm not gonna name names because I can't be asked with the fucking blowback, but everybody knows

that pick your, pick your like irrelevant reality TV star from the last 15 years, and it's probably them. And like, those people, like you have a platform, you have the opportunity to add genuine value to people's lives. You don't need to be a fucking closet philosopher about this sort of stuff, but you can get behind causes that actually

mean something as opposed to just like yet another advert for charcoal toothpaste. How does the world need that much charcoal toothpaste? I don't know, man. I don't think they need any, but apparently they actually need loads. So you said some of the things that you've learned at sort of about life and satisfaction and things that make you happy. So what are they?

Yeah, well, all right. So the thing, the core thing that I learned is that it's all about human interaction. Like your life's all about human interaction, so connecting with people. It's not about numbers on a fucking screen. Like I was, it was, we were in lockdown, the show came out and I'm sat at home, refreshing my Instagram, watching my following count grow up and not feeling a fucking thing. I did not care and I was so confused. I'm sad they're like, I should be happy. People tell me that I should be happy. People make a

big thing about followers and how that's important and how you're successful and I was literally like, tons of my thinking, mate, I do not, it doesn't affect me. The numbers on the screen, they don't mean anything. What means something is human interaction and connection and connecting with people and impacting people, affecting people positively. Like, leave the world better than when you are right. So, for me, it became so abundantly clear because we're in lockdown and I've got this crazy juxtaposition of the show blowing up social media exploding and it being deadly silent outside and having Like that kind of period of lockdown was like my lowest time as an adult

As an individual to how I felt I was flat. I was demotivated, I was just not happy because I wasn't able to engage with people. I'm a social person, I come an extraverted person, I buzz when I'm around others and when I can connect with people, I see them and affect them and things like that, and I stuck at home and I'm like, this should be the, like, my life is changing. Why don't you get it? Would you have been any different?

Would you have been any different? How do you have been around people? Do you think that you would have suddenly taken a load of value from the followers going up then? I think that really, where is the value that you get like for me? It's, all right, so, you know, every now and then people recognize me when I'm out and about it. But like this weekend, there's a person that stuck out and there was, you know, I think probably, I want to say that they just been class and probably I can also, people, groups

of people recognize me. But it's warm when we came up to me and she was like, hey David, I just wanted to say, I'm a really big fan. I love your positivity and what you're putting out on social media, I think it's really great. Thank you so much. And I was like, oh my God, that's so sweet. What's your name? And tell me your name was Fiona.

And I started feeling, thank you so much. You literally just made my night. Like that's so sweet of you to come up and be so humble and have that make my night. Like that's so sweet of you to come up and be so humble and have that conversation with me. And that meant a lot so I could see the effect, the positive effect that I'm having on her from putting out content that I think a lot about. Like that is more impactful because I can see that person,

it becomes real. So that's the difference. I don't care about something like, oh, you're that broke off that show. That means nothing. Like to be noticed doesn't mean anything, but to see impact, that means something. Dude, that's it. That's it there. So you have defined the territory as far as I can see there. Let me see if I can do a little bit of sense making from some things that have been floating around in my head and maybe some of this stuff will land with you.

So the problem that I have with most reality TV and I appreciate, I'm a massive part of this problem having been on it is that people are chosen as the lowest common denominator and the lesson that it teaches is that fame and notoriety by any means is all that matters. What I mean by that is a perfect example, Tommy Fury, fantastic boxer, worked his entire life to be a good boxer, made his name by existing as an all right looking lad with a bit of a tan on TV for a while.

His talent had absolutely nothing to do with his fame, so the decoupling of talent from notoriety has removed the value that fame used to give us. The reason that people used to be famous is because they'd done something. Now people are famous for simply existing and the problem with that, as you've identified, is that it leaves you with a very, very hollow sensation. Because you know that the fame could have been taken by someone else, had there have been another David doing that thing at that time on the show, they would have got the same as you, the same as me, the same

as Chris on Love Island, all the rest of it. However, when you do something which is both challenging and worthwhile, like grinding away in a business and putting thousands of pounds and hundreds of hours into it for a year, or creating social media content that you feel is a true representation of your inner logos, the way that you believe the world to be and you hope that it helps someone else make sense of it, and then they come up and tell you that is a sense of satisfaction derived from something which is closer to your higher calling. And I think what I really want people to take away from this is what you said when you were watching your follow account go up as just this arbitrary fucking number, numbers

on a screen, and had that have been, had you have got 1.3 million followers from constantly putting out like just amazing content that tons of people resonated with. You would have first of selected for a ridiculously mindful audience that super, super aligned with what you think and what you feel, but also you would be, you would feel so much more close to them because it would be due to your higher calling, right? So this fame and notoriety by any means, I think leaves, it first of it gives off the wrong impression to the people that watch because they presume that that's something to aim for.

Don't worry about what I'm famous for, just get me famous, right? Like, and the problem is, a perfect example of this, is like fucking, I think Konami Gregor, an Elon Musk and Kendall Jenner, and you know, some other person have probably all got the same number of followers, but they've got there from very, very different ways, like, you can't have one currency that equates multiple people from one metric of success, which equates multiple people within different metric of success, which equates multiple people

within different domains of competence. Like Elon Musk, as lovely as Konno-Megregor is, Elon Musk is worth 10 Konno-Megregors because Konno's not gonna fucking get this species to Mars. Like, but because people have this now, ubiquitous social currency that they can use. Oh, David's at 1.3, but this other guy that was on the show is only at 800. That must mean that David's

fucking 1.5 times as much as this person. You know what I mean? Like, I don't know, that's just a conception that I've had in my mind, that decoupling of notoriety from fame by any means to actually try to bring it back to it being, right, be famous for something, want to be, want to be someone, you know, want to do something. Yeah, that's so spot on, that is so spot on, you've, you've very eloquently delivered the information in an understandable way. That was brilliant. And actually that's something that I'm thinking now as post show. Like, what is it? Like I'm asking myself this question.

Like, what is it that you're going to do? What is it that you are going to do to impact and be known as, because just being known, who gives a fuck about just being known, it's about doing something. So like already, obviously I'm doing a lot of stuff in the health and fitness and that's something I already have, like I am a coach first and foremost I can my coach in a coach in the health and fitness industry for 10 years and it's not something that I plan on stop doing but I'm think like what else can I do to to to do more you know so you're so right and it's such a shame

that fame has been decoupled from talent. And there's so many people with massive following that talk absolutely. They don't deserve it, man. No, no. We know that they don't deserve it. And this is don't deserve it in the purest sense of the word. And what I mean by that is that there is literally large swaths of the population who would do better with that platform. Like when I see people that are plucked out of the,

the, the, the, the muck and the fucking feces and the straw on the floor in, in the, the back carriage and they get brought up to first class and they get this huge platform and then they, they squander it with just bullshit. And I do know it is that someone that could have done something but instead wanted to be someone. And that to me as you would appear to me and you agree on like, don't desire being someone, desire doing something. And if you can become someone that people know because

you have done something that resonates with them and that you felt compelled to do and feels like a high calling, that is when those two things marry. Fame should be because you have done something valuable and virtuous and worthwhile that adds value and makes people feel better and leaves the world a better place than when you arrived. If that's where your famous come from, fucking power to you. And if someone gets a platform like yours now and then uses that to leverage a message which should have been heard about health and fitness, one about living virtuously, one about mindfulness, one about being leaving the world a better place than when you arrived or whatever it is that you're working on at

the moment. If you use a huge platform to then further leverage that message that it gives you even more return, again, power to you. But if you do it the other way, like if you don't have a platform and you're just chasing being someone and if you become someone without doing something and then choose to just spuff it away, I just wasted it away. I think it all comes from what your initial intentions are, right? Where does this all come from? A lot of what I've realized in life is that there are some dead, fire-stight things that it doesn't matter what your intentions were, wrong. But there's a lot of things where actually, it's the intention behind the action is to whether it's right or wrong to do it, right?

So like, let's just take the coming famous. And you just kind of set it in a way there, which is easy to understand, like, why do you want to become famous? Or why do you want to be known? Is it because you just want people to know your name, so you into room and people look at you and they go, oh that's girl so you know that people know who you are because you need some narcissistic validation about who you are because you don't have any self-confidence and you're completely

void of any like internal happiness and you just need someone to validate you every fucking minute. That doesn't necessarily, that would be the real, the best reason why to become famous or to be known. But do you want to use an opportunity to develop a platform in order to better enrich other people's lives or to create change or to share a message. Because truth be told, I did this show because I knew fingers crossed, it would give me a platform to be able to do exactly what the fuck I'm doing now. Like that was it, apart from it was going to be a great opportunity to do something and tell my friends and have a story to look back on and be like, yeah, that was fucking cool. But also, because I was already doing the exact thing I'm doing right now before the show.

And like anyone who's been following me for years will have seen that I'll be exact saying content before and after. And so it's like, why you want to do something, defines it to whether it's the right or the wrong thing to do. I understand what you mean. It's a very rare person, man, to go into a situation and then like 10,000 X their platform and come out and still be largely the same person after that. I think that that's something that you should be proud of. If that's the case, if you've managed to maintain attached to this same person that you are, I think that's something that you should be very proud of. Well, dude, honestly, the show itself was a catalyst for me as an individual, like I went into that show and they put me in a position to think or swim and the good news, the good thing was that I was already like on the journey of personal development self-development like I was already talking to a coach and like

a performance coach, a mindset coach and I was already reading books and and kind of on that personal development journey and then got put into the position being on the show and then they were like, okay, the point of this show is to develop better, more meaningful, deeper connections with other people. And I'm like, fuck, yes, count me. That's like, yeah, that's like being a professional Ironman and I'm saying, right, this is going to be a run swim bike dating show. Yeah, exactly. And I'm there like amazing. So like when there were opportunity for me to choose to go in deeper or pull out, I took the opportunity to go in deeper. And that's why I personally got more out of it out of the experience. On a dating show, on a dating show, never pull out David, that's the lesson

that we're taking from him. Never thought, drawing up the water block. Go in, go in deeper. Go in deeper. And enjoy the process, yeah. It was good. And I personally got a lot out of it in terms of relationships and realizing that what I really want is to be in a happy committed, deep relationship with someone. And I was just fucking scared of getting hurt. And that's why I kind of kept girls at arms length because I fucking scared of getting hurt and that's why I kind of kept

guards at arms like because I was scared of getting hurt and so effectively that the show was a catalyst for that and made me fucking very aware of it and then also it made me so aware how actually like in life we we don't have the opportunity a lot of the time to create these deep connections with people because of a lot of the things which keep us on a superficial level. It might be that we have friends because we go out boozing with them and we don't actually know who they are properly because we never have deep conversations. It may be that we float around from job to job or we're constantly transient from city to city or were trying

to do things for the grand instead of enjoying the moment and being present. Like, I didn't have my phone, you didn't have your phone when you were doing love island and you realised actually conversations with people, sharing things that make you scared, sharing moments of triumph and jubilation, there are things that bring you together. And like when you get to know people on a real deep human level, that's when you become closer with people. So it reminded me to put my fucking phone down, stop watching TV, create opportunities in my life to actually connect with the people that matter the most, with the people that matter the most and to stop putting time into the experiences which give me little else other than short-term quicksick joy. Which, don't go wrong, there's

I'm keen on some short-term quicksick joy every now and then, like it's a great time, I went out on Saturday for example, it was fucking brilliant. but it's not something which it really Creates much depth in your life and that's what a lot of people are really missing out on is that is that then that and That insight is worth far more than a million followers Fuck yeah, 100% man. That's what I said like at the start the start of this talk I said that having done the experience, I came out and I was like, it doesn't matter if anything comes off this when it comes on the TV, I've already learned, I've already become a better person,

I've already had an invaluable life experience. So that's, you know, that was, it was huge. And it's, yeah, it was really interesting actually. So that was definitely big lessons. Dude, I mean, rightly so as well. I don't know how many people presume this, that you go on a dating show and you get catapulted towards a life of integrity and virtue because of it, but you've got two sort of living and breathing examples.

Perhaps you went in a little bit more actualized than I did. I was a like lost fucking soul before I went in. And I, my lockdown week, before my press lockdown week, I read the first book since uni, which was the pilgrimage by Paolo Cuello, and it sent me west, sent me totally west because it was so meaningful and I had nothing else to think about other than this fucking crazy book and I'm having all these dreams about it and then I go into the villa and they're like, right now float with that girl over there and I'm having this semi fucking existential crisis because I've just read Paolo Cuello's the alchemist here. I'm like, oh fucking shit. I'm like, oh, fucking shit. But I'm good, dude.

Anyone that needs an easy read, pick up anything by Paolo Quelo. It's really, really good. My mom loves him as well. Shout out, mom, Mrs. Weddingson, she'll be. She'll be. Yeah, dude, I think gaining that kind of insight is, there's literally no price that you can put on that. And the quicker that people realize that this isn't just me and you saying it because it's convenient.

I've got, I'm talking to a guy who has just gone from essentially relatively zero to a million and a bit followers on Instagram, which to most people would be like the ascension to the fucking heavens. And we are both telling you that doing something is more important than being somebody. Like this isn't part of some fucking David Ike, Brian Rose, London Real conspiracy bullshit. Like, I'm not doing this so that we can keep all of the followers for ourselves. I'm saying this because this genuinely is the closest proxy to what mean you think the truth is. The truth will be floating around in there somewhere. We're not perfectly precise human beings, but we're as close as we're going to get. Let's change track a little bit. What did you learn or what are your views on how reality TV

has affected young people's views on dating? How has it affected their views on dating? It's hard to tell exactly based on just reality TV but I think that it makes people feel like the thing that matters most is how you look. Because the show is reality shows pick objectively pretty people. And so, you know, there's this idea that it's all about your looks. And often they pick stupid people and so you get this connection between stupidity and beauty and that can often influence younger women especially to not chase their intelligence and pursue their intelligence and their humour and their quirks and their

internal beauty of who they are because what is mainstream is superficial, is your eyelashes and your nails and your hair and your bikini and all of that that goes along with it. But I'm going to tell you straight up, that beauty is not the most important thing, but I have fucking country mile. And you know, if you are just pretty, that is all that people will ever see for. Like you look at a painting and you're like, that's an objectively beautiful painting. I don't know anything about this personality. I don't know what the quirks are. I don't know if it this question. I don't know what the quirks are. I don't know if it's funny.

Like, if all you are is pretty, that's all you'll be seen at. So in order to gain depth and the deep connection with someone and to be seen as more and to have those real deep things, I think that it's ashamed that those are not encouraged. Because actually, when guys are ready to settle down and when guys are looking for a girlfriend, like if you're to have that commitment, there needs to be more than just beauty. And it's, you know, I think that's a real shame that it almost discolages girls to look at those more deeper

parts of who they are. And guys, I don't know, how would it really affect guys? I think it probably makes them think that in order to get the girl, you have to be an arrogant ill-tun. Because that's how most of the guys come across. It's how producers often try to make you behave. Well, they want to. You know, it's all...

This is the thing that most people don't realize that in reality TV, especially because there is a limited amount of time to do character development, the producers look for people that fit into archetypal roles. So you want the hero, the maiden, the villain, the dokey one, the pretty one, the nerdy one, the this, the one, the that, the silly one, the one that pisses on the floor, the one that does this. You know, you want, like, those are the archetypes.

And the reason for that is it expedites people from having to get past working out who that is and allows the storylines to be the front and center. You don't still want, after six weeks of watching a TV show, you don't still want to not quite work out whether David is a buff gym guy or an introspective philosopher. You want to just be able to go, yeah, David, he's the joke. David, he's the nerd or whatever it might be.

And what you get with that by virtue of that You get people that play into those roles on these shows Which means that they kind of double down and go out to the extremes of these of these particular caricatures that they play right to become a caricatured version of themselves which is really bizarre to watch. And quite an attaining as well, but do I agree? I think you've hit another. It's super one dimensional. It is one dimensional. If you're trying to fit into a hotel, if you're trying to fit into a pigeonhole, then you have to be one dimensional because that pigeonhole is not big enough for all of the intricacies of your personality. There's not enough time for the show to get that across.

So you have finite moments and opportunities to get across who you are. Especially I was filming for four weeks and there was eight episodes and each one was 45 minutes on roughly. That's not even the whole time. Right, no time at all. So you're only going to get certain opportunities to display your depth, right? And that was one of the things why I was like, well, these are opportunities, like we had the workshops on the show, and so I just was like,

I'm going to fully commit to this. Like, this is an opportunity for people to see that I am not just a guy that works out, but actually that there is more to me. And I'm lucky. I'm lucky because most reality shows do not give men the opportunity to do that. Dude, I haven't seen it. After speaking to you, I'm tempted to go and watch it now, but I couldn't

agree more. Most reality TV shows select for the lowest common denominator. Do you have a set of abs? Are you going to flirt with that bitch over there again? Exactly. Yeah, exactly. And it's, you know, reality TV, you have to remember is it's TV. It's a show entertainment. It's there to entertain you. But at the same time, it's confusing because it's called reality TV. And there are a lot of them, which are reality, there's not more kind of more scripted than others like to be fair.

Mine wasn't particularly scripted like we were put in situations like we were put in situations, like we were put in doing the workshops, for example, and you know, they were like, okay, this is what the workshop is, but there was very rarely, can you go and say this to that person, like, I never got told to do any of that. It was, okay, David, don't say that now, we want to get the cameras in and we'll film that later. You know, it was, let's get stuff set up. And the truth is that people need to remember that TV TV and really, let's go back from TV into social media. If you follow someone that you've seen on TV and you think that they're cool on TV, start following them on social for a bit if you like them and then check out what the actual value of the content is on their social media.

Like if you are following someone and you watch their account and you feel bad and you get any negative energy, if you get like if it just makes you feel jealous or it just makes you feel depressed or anxious or that you're not worth it or whatever negative feeling you get from looking at their channel or their page or whatever unfollow them. And if it's me unfollow me, like I want people to be happier when they leave my page like that's the point. And if someone's just put in a photo of them in a bikini with a star emoji caption, fuck them right off. Because what is the value in that? They're only doing it in narcissistic reasons.

Perhaps there's a plain devil's advocate with that. There is a place for easy going interesting content that doesn't have to make. You know, you might not everybody that's listening wants to have to delve into the existential crisis every post that they look at. No, true. There can be entertaining, right? And there's a lot of accounts out there which don't give the value that they're entertaining and they're funny, like, you know, that's the thing, that's like absolutely follow those out, they follow a bunch and then they make me laugh.

But that's a positive feeling. They make me laugh. As opposed to people that are just taking up mental bandwidth for no reason. Yeah, exactly. You know, and like, what would you watch on TV? Like, you watch stuff that makes you laugh, teaches you something, makes you have a little thing or or is just some light hearted, too much to open. And that's actually cool. Instagram, because it's photos most of the time, it can fall away from those categories and into just look at me.

Yeah. But again, I get me stuff is what you'll do it as well, man, like we've got to play the game. I always say this to everyone. I can talk about the virtue of living out your highest calling in all this bullshit and trying to delve into sense-making and, yeah, man, it's all about your logos and speaking truth forward and stuff. But I know for a fact, if I post a topless photo, I'll get twice as much engagement as if I put anything else up. So you still got to play the game.

It's like... Play the game. Play the game. Have to play the game. Yes, the caption. Yeah. Like, this is my point. So like... First trap in the photo.

First trap in the photo. Yeah. Put some quality underneath it. Whatever. Like, and like, we both know that that's the case. Everyone knows that sex sells. Like, we're humans. We's the case. Everyone knows that sex cells, like, we're humans, we like having sex.

It's cool. We're all in the same boat with that one. But like, we should kind of use that to, again, like, why are you doing it? It's like, links back to earlier, like, what my initial point was, like, why you do something to find whether it's good or bad, generally, there are exceptions.

But for you, posting a topless photo, like, you. Generally, there are exceptions, but for you post in a topless photo, that you're a good looking lad, you've got great teeth and a great body, it's understandable that people are going to engage with that. But what do you choose to put underneath it? Is it something like pointless or entertaining and engaging or is it? What I put is life is a beach live laugh love just be true to yourself that's what I put because that was the top result in

inspirational quotes I'm just making sure you're on a beach when you're doing it you know maybe casually walking away from the camera looking back Is this unsets over the water? That's what's happening, man. Look David. There's been cool, man I'm really glad that we've connected you're a great guy. It's nice. It's nice to hear that there's a kindred spirit Coming out from Coming out from reality TV genuine you man. I think the days of you know as much as much as I love them, everyone that was on the show, the days of the Jordy Shore, lowest common denominator, like, I've pissed myself again. Like, I really do hope that the days of that with reality TV are gone.

I hope that people have had enough of it. And if we've reset some people's ideas today about what is valuable, like you want to do something, not be someone, you want a connection, not followers. Like, if that's reset some people's ideas of what is valuable and virtuos and worth pursuing, mostly in life then, I think we've, it's been 45 minutes while spent, bro. So let's add to your existingly massive online presence, where should people go if they want to follow you online

and watch your website and stuff like that? What do you want to plug? Yeah, if you guys want to follow me, at David.battery.org, or if you want to check out my fitness pages at Endeavour Life, and the best places to find me are give loads of free information out on Endeavour Life. And it's a little bit less completely fitness-focused

on my personal page, you know, usually talking about bunch of stuff that we talk about today, actually, and there's generally what's going on in life. It's very much a personal thing, you know. You never know what you're going to get. I like it, man. Look, David, today's been really cool. Everyone that's listening, if you've got any questions, comments or feedback, you know where to go. Get at me, at Chris, we'll X, wherever you follow me, I'll leave the comments on YouTube. Or do whatever you want, leave your comments with David and it'll take him a couple of years

and you might end up getting back to you. Now David, bro, thank you so much for your time. James Chris, have a nice day man, I'll speak to you. Yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah