Modern Wisdom - #208 - Jamie Alderton - Life Beyond Being Shredded

Episode Date: August 10, 2020

Jamie Alderton is a coach, fitness model and author. Jamie has been to the peak of fitness modelling, multiple magazine front covers, stepping on stage at WBFF Worlds and a physique most men dream to have. Expect to learn what goals you chase once you've completed being lean. whether dieting to 4% bodyfat is it worth it, Jamie's favourite mindset strategies, how he's adapted his lifestyle to becoming a dad and much more... Sponsor: Shop Eleiko’s full range at https://www.shop.eleiko.com (enter code MW15 for 15% off everything) Extra Stuff: Follow Jamie on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jayalderton Check out Jamie's Website - https://www.jayalderton.com/ Get my free Ultimate Life Hacks List to 10x your daily productivity → https://chriswillx.com/lifehacks/ To support me on Patreon (thank you): https://www.patreon.com/modernwisdom - Get in touch. Join the discussion with me and other like minded listeners in the episode comments on the MW YouTube Channel or message me... Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chriswillx Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/chriswillx YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/ModernWisdomPodcast Email: https://www.chriswillx.com/contact Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello friends, welcome back. My guest today is Jamie Olderton, fitness model, coach, author, and now family guy. We're talking today about what life is like after you've been shredded. Anyone who grew up in the fitness world throughout 2010 to 2020 will know who Jamie is. Grenade J, as he was, Grenade Fitness's poster child, multiple magazine front covers, WBFF worlds fitness model, natural competitor, all this stuff. But I want to find out what happens when you make the transition from being someone

who steps on stage at 4% body fat and has tons and tons of admiring guys, probably asking you what your current chest and arms split is to having a more holistic lifestyle. He box-jumped Mount Everest last year for charity, and he's now living a balanced lifestyle with wife and child and multiple businesses, and I'm fascinated by finding out how people go through that transition. He's a great guy. I really enjoyed speaking to him. But for now, it's time for the Wies and Wonderful, Jamie Olderton.

Talk to me about what you've been doing, what's your day going stuffy? Today, well at the moment we're just building our new offices, so we're kind of two and from there. I've got a lot of client work doing, so I run two memberships, kind of a beta, I say beta-b, so helping Finch Festival Scalant grow their business and the BTC side helping people get healthier, happier, fitter and stronger. So Juggling, you know, spinning those two places is full-time job and obviously I have no clue about building stuff You know, go into the builders and they're talking about I have no idea and I just have to say to them that I do push-ups Relevant you need to like you need to get like a white board and draw it out and crayons for almost.

So they're getting there, but you know how I've made it this far with stuff like that, I don't know. There's got to be a point in every man's life where he becomes his dad in terms of capability for DIY. I haven't crossed that threshold yet. Yeah, that will never happen, unfortunately. I still to this day at 35 years of age, if I need a picture and put up my dad will get the phone call. I have attempted and this office looks really nice, but it's just an office of lies because behind every single frame is holes, like and really deep bits of plaster that's been crisped off the wall.

I literally have yet to successfully put up a picture because I only have two tools, Chris, if it doesn't go in with Alan Keohama, then that's it. The dad gets the phone call. Yeah, I wish that I could say I wasn't outsourcing everything manly to my dad as well. I don't feel emasculated by that. I think that we are the to my dad as well. I don't feel emasculated by that. I think that we are the Sevant 21st Century man. Yeah, I mean, my ironing game's on point, but that's what Seven Years in the Army does. So, yeah, kind of forced to those kind of things. So, so my wife gets me through all the ironing. And to be honest, we share, like she, she does the lawn. Now, a lot of guys would think that mowing the lawn is a very masculine thing to do.

And like we said, you said, with this von thing, I disagree. We have a weird exchange of things. Even cooking food, I cook the steaks. She does the roast potatoes. We all have our roles with certain things, and it's just based on the skills that we have. Not nothing to do with gender at all,

it's due to who's better at that job and do it. And for some reason, I've never enjoyed my and the law. That is a very egalitarian household, right there. Equality of access to the ironing board, equality of access to the mower outside. Yeah, well, there you go. I mean, we just find the best person for the job and if we both dislike it outsource.

Exactly, that's it. What a wonderful way that you could just scale a family forward now. Yeah, well, we're trying it. Our daughter's six coming on seven, and she's getting there with a few things. She actually enjoys cleaning, which has got big smile on my face.

Yeah, that's it. So what you need to do is develop your child into the weakness in both yours and your Mrs. is. Yeah, at the moment, at the moment, bribery is working. Trolls world tour stickers. Okay. The only thing is that ATP, a pack of eight, I think it is.

And the thing is, you know, these sticker books, they sound like a good idea at first, but you've got probably about 450 quids worth of stickers in there. And it's even worse when you get to the end because you're buying all of these packets of stickers and she's already got them. So it's the one that you need. Have you proratted out what that comes out to an hourly rate? Because my business partner who loves a spreadsheet would have done that. Yeah, I think I'm being ripped off if I'm being honest.

I think, I think an hourly wage would be a bit more sufficient because this is, this is bankrupt to make RISIP I'm being honest. It's the exponential increase in cost, isn't it? Because she's not happy. It is. Yeah. It's the exponential increase in cost, isn't it? Because she's not happy. It is. Yeah. It is. What a way to start a podcast, right? Fuck. I mean, what else are we here for? And so I wanted to talk today about the development of your fitness journey. There's a concept that you might not be familiar with at least by name, but probably by type, who everyone listening

will be. And it's called the fitness menopause. And I wanted to hear from someone who has been to peak condition WBFF worlds. Am I right in saying? Yeah. Yeah. 2014 was the world's in Las Vegas. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, top top end, physique competitor. And I want you to hear about sort of your fitness menopause journey and just get us to riff on on some fitness industry stuff. So the fitness menopause, I'll give you a big overview. I noticed amongst myself and my friends that as I got towards my late 20s into my 30s, I became chronically aware of my

own mortality. I realized that training purely for aesthetics was losing it to peel that I was feeling quite unfulfilled. I wanted to have a more robust physique. I also wanted to be able to kind of bulletproof myself physiologically from the onset of aches and pains and stuff that was happening. So I started to pivot my training, I pivoted away from bodybuilding fitness style training

and into I started doing Thai boxing and boxing and CrossFit and other bits and pieces, and I found really fulfilled. I actually found that my progress and my training volume went up because I was enjoying what I was doing and I was no longer focused on these socialized, externalized metrics of success.

It was more the internalized performance-based metrics of success. This I've seen happen across a whole turn of friends that start doing yoga, friends that start doing palates or free running or calisthenics or whatever it might be, and it just seems to be a very common change that men specifically seem to go through. I think girls actually, as far as I can see, seem to be a little bit more integrated with their fitness.

They, if they're a dancer and they're a kid, they're still dancing when they're in their early 20s and they're still teaching dancer and they're in their 30s and 40s or whatever. But guys definitely seem to have a menopause that they go through. And then after that, there's this whole new world that they step into.

So I wondered sort of what your experience has been, how you sort of your fitness journey started and then where it's taken you now. So I think my fitness journey started when I was 13. So I used to go to the gym. I used to be really high-proactive kids and they used to open up the gym in the lunch hour and one of the PE teachers used to go in there. So every lunch time I was in the gym training, I'd only, it's weird, I'd only train legs. I wouldn't train up a body, really weird for a 13 year old, I know.

But I had this party trick, I'll get all my mates in the leg press machine and could do 20 reps. So it's kind of like, that's some epic school, what's gonna say street credit, it's more like a school credit there. And that, it's always been a fundamental part of my life, gym and training. Now when I joined the army, I joined the army at 17.

Of course, you needed to be fit for duty. So I really got into the gym for the age of 30, but really got into it in the army. But you had to be able to lift and shift in the army. So it's all right. It's no good having big muscles unless you could carry someone for 200 meters pretty quick with it. So I'd always had that mentality of being strong and fit and not just show off muscles, so to speak.

And it's kind of weird because of course, when I left the army, I started competing where you're not focused on performance, you're focused on aesthetics on aesthetics and for me it was always this case where I was a big lump in the army, a big fit lump that was always training but I'd look at these magazines and these guys about how on earth does somebody look like that I train harder than that person and then actually really realize that it was diet my idea of bulking the army was going to Burger King with the Land Rover you know three times a week And that obviously wasn't working. So when I left the army, I kind of lost a bit of my identity because I've been a soldier from

a teenager and suddenly, yeah, the time was working in IT for a year and I needed to find something about me. All that's Jamie, he's a soldier, it was always. And instead of this Jamie's working in the IT department, it kind of felt a little bit different. And that's Jamie, he's a soldier, it was always, and instead of this Jamie's working in the IT department, it kind of felt a little bit, you know, a little bit different. And that's when I started getting into competing, because it was like a imaginary sergeant on my shoulder saying, you've got to get up early, you've got to eat this, and you've got to do that. And I loved it, because it just gave me structure and routine, like my military life. And my first competition that I did was a BNBF, which was the British natural bodybuilding competition, I came second in the novice, qualified for the British.

I didn't place for the British, but the week before I won the overall novice, muscle mania, natural champion, ship, and from then on, it was all about competing and seeing how I could push my body. And, you know, it was all about competing and seeing how I could push my body. And it was never about competing with others, it was always about competing with myself. So I think my journey there was trying to make something of myself, coming out of the army and becoming a soldier and my identity was very much attached with the way that I look because of course I was in all these magazines and everything else like that. But that comes with another issue as well because when your identity is attached to the way that you

look and let's just say you're in an office season or you've put a couple of 20 pounds, 25 pounds on, you're not yourself because you have created this figment in your head of what you think others view as, even though that might not be true. So that comes with its own issues when suddenly you get an email about a photo shoot and you're suddenly like 10 pounds off shoot shapes, are we saying? And you go to extremes to get back there, to get back to the person who you think you are. So my fitness journey from kind of soldier to competitor

was very much about that, trying to find what I'm known for beyond being a soldier. And as I carried on pushing that, 2013 was when my daughter, Liza, was born, and that year was one of the happiest pinnacle moments in the change in my fitness, because although I was still competing for two more years after that, that 2013 I gained 50 pounds. So I kind of went from 190 to like 136 pounds or something like that. It was a great year because I stopped focusing on myself, kind of a very selfish competitor and started focusing on my family, my wife and my clients.

And what happened during that year is I was really fulfilled. Though I wasn't in fitness model shape, so to speak, I doubled my business because all of my focus was on getting my clients fit and healthy, and I had a great home life because I was focusing on my newborn daughter. It was kind of a this thing of, Jamie, you don't, your success isn't based on what you look like. It's based on how you make others feel. And that was kind of a fuck. Yeah, you're right here. But I was 236 pounds.

And I did want to get back on stage again. So I had 2014, I stepped on the world stage, which we spoke about, and got myself back in shape, had a more flexible approach because I'm very much before that hand, very extreme. And I couldn't do that with my daughter and I didn't want to have those real bad energy drops. And although, as you do in the last few weeks, I kind of balance things out a lot. And I'd say ever since 2014, I've been in pretty good shape because it's my habits and routines that keep me there, not the extremes in which I need to go. And I think, you know,

fast forward now from say 2015 to today, you know, I maintain a good physique, I've got strong healthy habits, but I'm a lot more relaxed about things. Yes, I've still got this kind of compete with myself mentality and I channel wetting other things that I do fitness wise. But you know, if you're to ask me, would I get shredded and you know, beyond shredded again and step on stage, there aren't so many no A, you know, I love gin at the weekends and B, I'm not willing to put my family through the sacrifices that it takes for that to get essentially a plastic trophy and a pat on the back. What were some of the sacrifices that you had to make to get essentially a plastic trophy in a pot in the back.

What were some of the sacrifices that you had to make to get to the sort of condition where you were walking on stage, which is hyper, hyper peeled? What does it feel like? I would say, the way I can't explain it is that natural competitors, one thing that a good-ass suffering, the better that somebody looks, you know, come from a BNBF background, these guys are peeled, but they sometimes can't even get our bed. And in order to get that kind of condition, you need to suffer. And it comes at a massive sacrifice. Your mental health gets affected a little bit

because you're constantly looking at the mirror. I'd say like now, I probably have a glance at the mirror while I'm brushing my teeth in the morning. The next time I glance at the mirror is when I got a bed and brush my teeth. There, you are literally every car you walk past, everything you walk past, you're always, you know, because your motivation is based on how you look and you're being judged on you and how you're always you know because your motivation is based on how you look and you're being judged on your and how you look so you are constantly checking yourself out to make sure that you look okay because if you don't then it's like well hang on with what am I doing all this for. So there's a huge mind game there and when you get very very

lean you crave a lot of weird foods you crave a lot of foods because although you can fact a certain one's in you've only got a certain amount of calories so there's a lot of weird foods. You crave a lot of foods because although you can fact a certain one's in, you've only got a certain amount of calories. So there's a lot of things that you can't. And that plays on your mind because when you can't have something, you want it. And you start to crave, you have these mad cravings, you start, you know, stop looking at TV programs, you just watch food programs, you write food lists of things that you're going to eat when you finish. You know, all of these kind of things, and I used to be what's called a cake sniffer, so I used to actually go and buy cakes for other people, and I'd be happy just as long as I could sniff them. So it's these kind of things that affect you, and a couple of weeks before,

you know, I was carrying my daughter around town, and we went from one shop to the other, and I was exhausted. I said, look, I'm knackered. Yeah, an hour later, I was ripping my daughter around town and we went from one shop to the other and I was exhausted. I said, I'm knackered. Yeah, an hour later I was ripping dead lifts off the floor. So there's lots of things that are involved with that. And you think, well, what is all of this for? And if I'm being honest, you know, to the untrained eye, you could look shredded like photo shoot shape. And you could look the epitome of and you could look the epitome of health and actually be the epitome of health if you've got a good amount of muscle tissue and for me my shoot shape is around let's just say about 196 pounds that was when I was on the front cover of Muscle of Fitness magazine yet my

stage weight is 180 so if you were to look at me you know front cover I look shredded but if you were to say if I, you know, from cover, I look shredded. But if you were to say, if I was to say no, actually, I'd need to lose another 16 pounds, you'd like, where from? And I'm like, I will tell you where, like, this is about another 14 weeks of being in a calorie deficit and training in order to achieve that. So, when you understand that, you're like, well, why, like, if you look absolutely greater that, why would you ever go anywhere below? And the only time you would would be for, you know, for a competition. And, you know, I found other ways of scratching that itch now, you know, since 2016. So that's a lot more selfless. You know, I do every every two years, I do a big charity event.

That pushes me mentally and physically. So I always do like stupid things, or we say, but it raises a lot of money for charity and raises a lot of money for one of my local children's charity. So it has a lot of has a lot of selfish itches that get scratched, but it has even more selfless because actually other people benefit from it, which other people suffer when I used to compete. There was no benefit to it whatsoever, apart from my own selfish gains. Privatized gains and socialized losses, as Naval Ravakant would call it.

How much of an influence was you daughter being born on this red pill moment, the menopause onset? A lot. I mean, up until that time, I was, I would say I was a very extremely driven, selfish, arrogant person that cared nothing but his own achievements. You know, despite having a missus. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, how was she still with me? I don't know. I'm really like, I always say, you know, whenever I do post them, I'm like,

because I've been with my wife since 13, okay, since the age of 13, so she's grown up with me. And I think, you know, there's one person that knows a real me, it's my wife. And a lot of people have actually asked, I said, you know, and it's just shifting gears a little bit. But a lot of people said to my wife, how have you stayed together so long? And she said, well, I've married six different men. And it's very fascinating, and I just said that because she goes, well, I got with a boy, I then grew up with a person who was joining the army and then leaving the army, and then I married a competitor, then I married a business owner and it was this whole transition into that

thing. And I've changed as a person throughout that journey. And you know, if you want to know a key to a relationship, it can be evolving and growing together. I'm not staying the same. It can be a very strong thing because, you know, if you'd say, oh, you know, you've been together 22 years, it doesn't feel like it because we've gone through different evolutions of that. So, yeah, it's always been a fascinating thing to understand that. But going back to what we said, you know, being extremely selfish, I think a lot of that was I had to prove to myself that I was worthy of things. Because I think a lot of people,

they stay in this kind of rut of teetering between selfishness and selflessness because they're not willing to give their complete selfish, you know, complete selfishness to achieve something that's gonna make them more selfish, if that makes sense. Because in order to help people at a lower level, you need to play at a high level. And sometimes in order to play and win at a high level, you need to make a lot of sacrifice. Whatever it is that you're focused on achieving. And I think it was a very interesting podcast with Tim Ferris and Walter O'Brien.

I don't know if you know what we're a Brian is. At the age of six, he hacked into a computer in Ireland and FBI knocked on his door and he was actually downloading NASA space programs on his Doc Matrix printer. I think he's got an IQ of 197. And first name podcast, he was talking about how far we were away from head transplants and what would be required to do that. But he said a quote about in order to, and it stuck with me because it's quite polarizing. And what he said is, it was about Mother Teresa. He said Mother Teresa hugged a thousand people in that time and they still died. Bill Gates wrote a check which wiped out malaria and he said he thinks it's important that you should spend a part of your life being completely selfish so you could spend the rest of

it being completely selfless. And it's a very fascinating quote that he said because it's like, right, so if the answer to be more helpful to people is to be extremely selfish, what is it that you're going to do on this planet for yourself in order to do that? And that's one thing that I've noticed with a lot of people when you talk about, they've evolved in their fitness. I feel like I've got to a stage where I'm happy that I've achieved enough to be confident no matter what I do in fitness, I will feel like it's enough if that makes sense. There's a quote that completely slots into what you're saying.

It is easier to fulfill your material desires than to renounce them. Yeah, exactly. And I don't feel I've got any more to prove with my fitness journey other than to keep on top of it, to stay on this planet as long as possible. And every couple of years, just let people know that I'm not dead yet. And it's like, you know, the worst thing that anybody could say to me in the next 10, 20, 30 years is you're past it. Because I will not only come back,

I will look in the face and go, I told you so. And I've been driven by spite for a lot of things. And the main reason being is that I've back when we're talking about when I was £236, we were at the first European WBFF show in the UK. And I was hammered. I was at the bar, pissed around about 10 points again this. I'll tell you all the competitors, I'll be back on the world stage next year, kicking all of your asses. And they laugh their tits off. Yeah, yeah, like Jay, whatever, like is in your past it. And I can remember, I even remember that now. And I had three of them text me two weeks for the world and go his fair play. And it was just, didn't need to say it, but it's like, yeah. and other things with regards to my charity events, box jumping, ever,

it's no one had ever boxed up, ever. I don't think anyone was stupid enough. And in order to do it, I needed to box jump 14,550 box jumps in less than 24 hours. And, you know, if anybody's done 10 box jumps, they'll know how difficult that was. So I had a lot of people, even after I'd done it, saying, I did not think you could do that. And the only reason, apart from the most important one, raising the money for charity and me feeling compelled to do it, because there's no way that I couldn't, because I wouldn't let down those children.

But that spite of going, just because you said that's not possible, somebody can't do it, doesn't mean that I can't. And I think that comes down to complete self belief that if you commit to understanding what it takes to do something, then you're able to achieve it because most things are based on fundamentals. And anything endurance wise is based on the said principle

which is essentially specific adaptation to imposed demands. You impose enough progressive load and stress on the body over time. It will adapt, it will improve, and it will increase. You've just got to know where to push those bottoms, how long you need, and essentially have that talent which a lot of competitors have and that's the ability to suffer. And that's one thing that I would say if we had, if we were playing top trumps and we

had one of those little things, that's what that's one of my high powers. It's just the ability to suffer for a long period of time. It's interesting to see what happens when you break down a big accomplishment into small steps. Like if you were given enough time, you could walk to Mars. Like if you were given a couple of eons, you could walk to Mars because it's just one step in front of the other. Can you take a step? Yes. Right. Okay. That's all that walk into Mars. It's just a whole bunch of steps. The same as your box jumping Everest, 14,000 and a bit box jumps with a 22 and a half hours it took you?

Yeah, that was right. Yeah. Tell us about that. Tell us how that felt. So I've done a few. This was my third big 24 hour event that I've done. And so I had a bit to compare it to, but I would say out of the three, it was the hardest one that I'd done because the other two, I could slow the pace down.

So if I was feeling a bit tired, I could just reduce the pace down. So I pushed a sled for 24 hours. And for that, you adapt to it, but also for the first four, five hours, you can pick up a higher pace. So when you're exhausted, you can pick up those lost laps from the beginning.

But this, you needed to hit 660 per hour or you weren't going to get the record. So there was no, oh, I just need to slow down this hour. You had to hit a threshold and that threshold was between 13 and 15 box jumps every minute. So that's a lot of pressure because I had a couple of hours there, hour nine and hour ten. My quad went into a spasm, my car for gone and I just, and it was most excruciating hour where in your head you're like, you've got 12 more hours of this and it's the narrative that you put in your head. And as you were saying with breaking things down, I didn't look at it as I've got 10 hours left. I'm like, you've got 36 more rounds before you can take a 10 minute rest. Because our effective strategy, which we realized was that we need to give ourselves adequate rest.

So instead of trying to do 660 box jumps in an hour, we need to do 660 box jumps in 50 minutes. So we need to go a faster pace just so we can get that 10 minutes to feed, go to the toilet, rest recover, and sort out any niggles or injuries that we've got. So that hour, it was just, yeah, you've got, you've just got to smash through these 36 rounds. And then you can sit down, you can get a massage and then you can get ready for the next evolution. And that's something that I loved hearing about. I love that talk. I think it's general McCrevy or McCrevy talking about never ring the bell. And he says, basically with Navy seals, you go through hell week and you basically don't

sleep for five, you get about two hours sleeping five days, which a lot of people don't think one, no, you don't just get to it. And like you do, people don't think that it's possible for a body to say out that, well, there's plenty of SEALs that will show you that that's true. And he says, the ones that make it is, you know, if you want to quit at any time in those five days, you just ring a bell. And he says, the people that passed that, there was never a bell in their head. There wasn't a bell there. It was just can't continue to go on. And I think if I'm kind of breaking that down,

well, my second charity event, I actually put a bell at the start line. And I painted a picture saying there is no bell. So that was a great reminder from a last one to say, look, you know, I passed that bell every single lap. I was never gonna ring it. But I've always had that in my head is just like, right, it's not you've got to continue on. You've just got to do the next hour. And it comes down to this one chapter of day analogy that I do with a lot of things.

You know, small things, real, know that small things done consistently turn into big results. But people just aren't patient enough that I do with a lot of things. Small things, we all know that small things don't consistently turn into big results, but people just aren't patient enough to hit the small things consistently. And what I say to people is that if you committed to reading one chapter of a book a day, the average self-development book, 11 to 12 chapters means you're going to get between 30 and 34 books read in a year. But if you just go in with a mentality of, here's the 34 books that need to change my life, I'm just going to try and get through them throughout the year, you'll probably only get 5 or 10 done. And it just comes down to that strategy as you said, Chris, people aren't

willing to be patient enough for results and persistent enough to hit a small minimum effective dose every day. Ethan Supply, the actor from Butterfly Effect and Wolf of Wall Street and the huge huge guy from remember the Titans who's now 236 pounds, he's lost 300 pounds and his 10% body fat. He'd be amazing to get on your show actually, I can do an intro if you're interested, he's a phenomenal dude, amazing guy, big into his training, big into his health and fitness and he had a martial arts instructor for a movie that he was doing and this sensei guy, you

are wearing this t-shirt and this t-shirt said, kill your clone on it. And as I quote to that, and he's like, oh, it's my sensei's little saying that he's got that every day you wake up and you have to have a fight with you from yesterday, it's a clone of you. And if you haven't made that marginal gain, if you haven't slept slightly better, become slightly more mindful, become slightly fit, it's a clone of you. And if you haven't made that marginal gain, if you haven't slept slightly better, become slightly more mindful, become slightly fitter, become slightly smart or whatever it might be, if you go to bed worse than when you woke up, your clone kills you. He's like, that's not the way it works. It's like you kill your clone every day. And you know, everyone that's been on this show, James Smith, good example, someone who from a business and notoriety standpoint,

has done some fairly sort of astronomical celestial things, but he says himself, what I do isn't that impressive, it's just my consistency at doing it over time effectively. James Clears has been on this show, author of Atomic Habits, my favorite book from the last couple of years, and he says the same thing, it's just like just show up, just do the thing, the minimum effective dose, go to the gym and do a's just like, just show up, just do the thing, the minimum effective dose, go to the gym and do a pressup, and then go home, go to the gym and do two pressups, and then go home.

And the same with what you've done, the progressive overload is king in all areas of life. And that's like the best thing, I think, the best unifying principle that I learned from bodybuilding and fitness training is the concept of progressive overload, like really, really understanding what that means, just that tonnage each week, can I do that with reading, can I do that with the precision in my speech, can I do that with the relationships that I have with everybody else, because that is what development means. In a very sort of pure sense, the capacity to do more than you were previously able to do.

Had a guest on who had a other interesting view on it, he said, self-development is the ability to hold more complexity than yesterday, which is a part of that, but also a little bit of a nuance, which I love. But yeah, man, progressive overload, king in everything. Yeah, and a lot of things that I used to do, it's just because, you know,

it's very easy to be consistent with things that you enjoy doing because you've become more motivated. And I think one of the biggest things that happened with it, you know, a lot of people say to me, oh, you know, how did you deal with lockdown? And I'm like, well, I think you go through different phases, but also, I kind of started in a really euphoric mood and it kind of went down a bit and then it went back up. Why were you so euphoric at the start? Because being a soldier, an ex-soldier, when lockdown happened, I kind of switched gears into, there's gonna be a lot of people that need my help.

This shit's easy for me. Doing six month tour of Baghdad, we were sleeping in a tiny little port of cabin with six other lads for six months, with mortars dropping their flights, center of us every single day. I'm like, this is nothing. I'm sitting in my house with Netflix, with the high speed broadband. I live 15 minutes from the beach, and I'm allowed to go for a seat up in the morning. I'm fucking good. But I know a lot of people who need my help now.

And that's why I was in there, like, oh, this is the only time where I feel that the world is slowed down and I can kind of get ahead a little bit. And I did, but one of the mistakes I where I feel that the world is slowed down and I can kind of get ahead a little bit. And I did, but one of the mistakes I think I made is that I did, and I'm only kind of coming out now is the fact that I was getting back into those habits of doing too much, not having a day off, ultra productive, and kind of being very selfless to the wrong people and not selfish to the right people.

And I learned a lot from 2016 and doing that. So I saw the commonalities between that and kind of was like, well, hang on a minute there, Jay. There's lots of opportunities here, but don't forget why you're doing all this for and it's for a better life your family, not just for you. So it kind of like backed off a little bit. Drinking, I was drinking quite heavily as well.

I'm a big, I mean, I, I, X squad is always a drink. And there's always an excuse to get drunk. But I've kind of probably a month before, probably no more than that. That's six, seven weeks ago. I was just like, no, stop this, Jay. Focus on your fitness, focus on your health, and you're so much better at what it is that you do when you're sober, when you're not having a few drinks.

And it's very easy, like we talk about habits. You know, having a few beers a night makes you feel awesome. It does, because you don't really wake up with that much for hangover. I get quite creative after glass of wine as well. I very much like when the Mrs. is out having a bottle of malbec to myself in a good book, because then I fill out like three or four pages of an opad. And sometimes that can be a bad justification for doing something that, you know,

you end up having a bottle and then you adapt to that and then it's not a bottle on a Friday night, it's a bottle three times a week and then it's like, yeah, we're a bottle every night and if you can clamber onto a justification for it that's productive, then you can keep that habit and you allow yourself and something that I learned a lot about my own habits is just because you can, doesn't mean you should. And I remember reading an article about high, so you hear the word function in alcoholic, people who can still just about do their job and function as one.

And I remember reading this book about high performance, high performance, punctulating alcoholics, and these are athletes, you know, these are Iron Man athletes and people who are literally alcoholics, but also they're just gifted in what they do and it doesn't affect them. And it made me ponder, well, I'm not an Iron Man,

I'm not an ultra-marrow from Runner and this, but I get where the tendencies come from because there's no negative feedback loop and what it is that they're doing and sometimes you need to actually just say to yourself, fucking stop. And that's the hardest thing to do when there's nothing there's no queue to say. That this is detrimental and I found that with a lot of things, especially with my fat loss. because I've been training for the age of 13. It doesn't take me long to get back in shape. You know, I say to people six weeks of tracking macros and that, and I'd be on the front cover and muscle and fitness, because that's what I did

for six weeks before actually being on there. But that's what happens when you've been weight training for 22 years. You develop a decent amount of muscle tissue and habits during that time. So it's a lot easier to do. You just stop drinking on the weekends and increase your output and stop eating macchides three times a week.

There you go. So, I always have to check myself for a wreck myself with these things. That's one thing that I found that level of self awareness is key not just to myself but to everyone because no one's like I've said for the last five years, write shit down, but people still don't. And it's some it's a practice which I think every single person should do to get that stuff out of your head onto a piece of paper makes such a difference. And this is why you're just looking here. I've got three whiteboards and I can just see three notepads with different things on my desk for different reasons.

So I've got a pondering notepad. I've got a notes notepads and I've got an education one which I make notes on for stuff that I want to progress in my business. A lot that you've covered there is stuff that everyone listening will be familiar with. I'm a huge advocate of sobriety as a productivity tool. I'm a club promoter by trade,

so I've watched millions of people go into nightclubs, but found a few years ago that if I went sober, I had more time, money and calories to spend on things that I care about. So again, if the people listening haven't got bored of me saying it already, sobriety is a wonderful productivity tool. You're looking at someone who has a lot of different plates to continue spinning and Jamie appears to a fan. Have you gone full sobriety now? Just absolutely.

No, we can't only see what's the rule that you went for. I've toyed with the idea because I think I said to myself what would be the hardest thing for you to do and I don't drink for you and and I've said to myself look. Having a drink is a fundamental part of my life and people could argue that it's not. But I genuinely enjoy it when it's. You know, if you're a part I was a kind of producer and I can genuinely, and I have done for a long time, to have routines and rituals in my head that gets results. And saying to myself, not drinking on a school night,

which is Monday to Friday, well, Monday to Thursday, and no more than like a bottle of wine with the misses, or if you're gonna go out out one gin and tonic or two and having these kind of, if I'm getting in shape for three months, you're not allowed to get drunk. You don't have to get tips, you've been not drunk and that's maximum two drinks. And that, I mean, that gives me the benefit of it, but none of the disadvantages. So if you're able to do that, then yes, and if you're not, and I've had these moments, then you need to go to extremes to do it.

There's an interesting interview I saw of Richard Branson, and he was talking about alcohol. And he said, when he's been drunk a bit too much and he's been a bit hungover, he instantly has no alcohol for 12 weeks, because it makes him realize someone in his position just doesn't make sense to be unproductive for a day because that to him at his level affects so many more people. It affects others' lives because his decision, his decisions, he's putting up bloody rockets to Mars for Christ's sake. So, you know, when you start thinking about others for that, it gives you motivation to kind of stop.

And, yeah, it's always been an interesting one for me, alcohol, because, you know, a lot of it comes from a military background. I do have, you know, minimis is do enjoy a bottle of wine on the weekend, and, you know, I'm a big fan of gin. But it's, I think it's so important to notice your bad habits too. And I would say like, if I was to say, right, what are your worst habits, Jamie?

I'd say definitely alcohol is one of them, most certainly. In patients with others, probably another one. And I think what stoicism has taught me is the ability to control what you can control and let go of things that you can't. So that's always a thing which is a narrative in my head. What I do, you know, when I'm starting to feel frustrated because someone hasn't done something or got back to me which has affected my own thing when I'm starting to feel frustrated because someone hasn't done something or got back to me, which has affected my own thing, I'm like, well, is it that important, Jamie, and the answer is usually no. So it's the, I think it's, it's said for us, is pulling these different mental models in your life

to be able to perform and understand, you know, your own life and your own progress. I think that would be an interesting challenge for you to do. I think six months of sobriety would be an interesting eye opening experience. Yeah, I mean, I've done six and eight months before because of competing. Ah, yeah. Because as soon as I compete, that's it. I do not have alcohol. You know, it's literally a switch and it's done.

And I am that kind of person that will just go, right, done. But if it's not for an outcome based reason, this is what I need to kind of really do some work on and challenge myself. Yes. Because yes, OK, there are sacrifices in. But to be honest, what you're saying to insert into it but to be honest what you're saying to you know In certain situations, I mean what you're saying is that you can't enjoy the environment that you're in without it

And it's so well you can do you just got to change your mindset around what it is that you're trying to get as an outcome from it Listening everyone are you listening to the same words I've been saying for the last three years coming out of Jamie Olden's mouth. Yeah, absolutely. Alcohol is a social performance enhancing drug. And without a concentrated period where you're forced to do the things that you usually do with alcohol, without alcohol, you'll never develop that confidence to go up and speak to that girl, the ability to be, to feel like you are as interesting,

extroverted, capable of dealing with a boring situation. Like, you don't realize that your friends, big group of your friends, you're only friends with them because you get pissed together. Like, it's one of these things. And I think that kind of removing that veil, it'd be interesting to see where your internal work goes with that, man. I will be, I'll be really, really interested to see sort of what, what that journey goes through. And I think as well, not having the goal, like when you were going through full monk mode, and you're like, right, no cake, sniffing cake, and no alcohol in this that and the other, it's a very different pathway to I'm going to do this for the reason

that I want to see what life is like without it, and etc. So yeah, that'll be that'll be an interesting one. But so the alcohol thing was was an interesting part that you brought up there and then just breaking stuff down man, you know, breaking things down into small manageable chunks. I wonder as your sort of fitness journey and business journey and stuff like that now continues to mature, what do you think is next? Have you got your next big charity event thing organized? You got any ideas what that might be? So this year has been a rest year from that and then next year on focus on something.

And I've kind of set the bar with the box jump. I was looking at a few things. There was, I'll say one because it's not going to happen. I watched a documentary on Captain Web who was one of the first person to breaststroke the English channel back in the night. Are they right in saying the reason that he did breaststroke was because he was on gentleman. It was unbecoming of a gentleman to put your head below the water and it was like chavvy to do the front crawl. Yeah. And if, you know, and it was like, right, hang on a minute.

So I've ticked some boxes here. I don't front crawl. I don't, I'm a breaststroke. So't front crawl. I'm a breast strokeer, so that's good. I'm a strong breast strokeer. I go for a dip in the sea every single morning without fail. And it kind of falls in line with the things that are just following a legend

and it's got a story and a narrative. But it was just there. My good friend, Rossegely, swimming's his thing. And I'm very much like I need my own thing. And although it's totally different, obviously, he swam all the way around the UK, but he, you know, it's not, it's that's his thing. And it's, and it's all, it's fine, strange, because there's a couple of people training to do my

box jump ever is now. And I just find it amazing go for it and I'm wishing the best of luck but it's just, you know, it's just not something that I'd want to do. Like I'd be inspired by someone but do your own thing. So that thing, I mean, I'm talking with the idea of getting a rickshaw and setting a, do you know, I mean, a rshore, you know, the old Chinese transportation. Yeah, it's a wheelie one, like it's a bicycle with a cart on the back. Yeah, so I want to do a 48 hour endurance event with that. I just got to try to think of a good beginning and end for it and it has to be challenging enough to do. The people in it, No people in the ritual?

Yeah, people in the ritual. Yeah. So that's the thing that's toying in my head at the moment. I don't know the distance. You know, I'm probably about 70 miles from London. So it might be a good thing to do, especially finishing London, but I don't know. That's the thing that's in my head at the moment. They were the two things.

That might just be totally something different, but I'll have know, that's the thing that's in my head at the moment. There were the two things, that might just be totally something different, but I'll have determined that around the Christmas time, the December time is my ponder time, and ponder in plan for the next year, so there will be something that comes into my head, then it has to be something that someone says that can't be done. I think, if I was to say I'm going to put a ritual to London London, I think most people think I could do it, which means I shouldn't do it.

I've got to push it a little bit further. I've got to come up with something a little bit more ludicrous. Yeah. Yeah. So we'll say, I mean, I've got over 80 months to kind of figure it out. So whether it will be, it will be. That's cool, man. Looping back to the journey through fitness and this kind of,

I'm really interested in this dynamic between the externalized socialized measures of success and the internalized fulfilling measures of success. What would you say to some of the people that are listening, perhaps, who are still very heavily attaching their self-scent of identity and their sense of self worth to their condition. Are there any sort of light bulb moments that happened for you or anything that you sort of lessons that you'd pass on to those people? Yeah, no one cares. No one cares at all.

Imagine if you will that you can't swim and I've chucked you in the deep end and all you're doing is flapping your arms trying to get breath. Now imagine 7.5 billion people doing that metaphorically every single day. Your wants and needs are your wants and needs. Everybody else has got so much shit in their life that even if you were a passing thought you'll be you'll be quickly forgotten with the amount of problems that that person has to solve each day. So if you were a passing thought, you'll be quickly forgotten with the amount of problems that that person has to solve each day. So if you're hindering yourself based on the things that other people who aren't even considering you are thinking,

then you're doing yourself a disservice because no one cares. And that hasn't able me to completely change my view of doing things because I'd do it for me, not anybody else. And the reason that I do these things is to explore myself, not what other people's opinions are of me because they don't matter, because they don't care, because it's a passing thought. We would care far less about what other people think about as if we realized how infrequently they do. Yeah, exactly. And I very much love a lot of the stoic philosophies with things. And the view from above is always a great one where you kind of view, you, you, you lie down and you kind of look up a hundred feet

in the air and then you look at what you can see and then you go a thousand feet in the air and then you go two thousand miles above and then you go to the next galaxy and you realize you're your fuckle, you're a speck of dust which is gone in a second. So if you are, you know, having those doubts and thoughts and fears which are hindering you, it adds to that, it doesn't care because you're gone in a bleep. So just make the most of it. So what should people spend their time on? If they're not spending their time on the things that other people, that they think of the people are bothered about, what should they spend their time doing? Things that give you happiness and fulfillment.

Fulfillment is come from progress, becoming a better version of yourself, making mistakes and fuck-ups and failures. Being able to do things which you couldn't fathom that you could do before and you can do now, doing difficult things, and also doing things regardless of how you feel, because the outcome is more important. Focusing on those things have made me very content and happy, because- Not just doing things for other people as well,

as you mentioned before. And I think that's the thing. I love the quote, give them, forget, receive them, remember. I think with business and marketing, everyone understands a reciprocity. You scratch my back and you know, you'll scratch yours. But I think the people who make a difference is that they're basically back scratchers. They don't want their back scratched. They just want to give out good things to the world. And it's rare to find those people. But when you do, make sure that you're mates with them because they don't want, you know, good things to the world. And it's rare to find those people,

but when you do make sure that you're made for them, because they don't want, something I say to a lot of my friends, I do a lot of things for people, and they're like, what do you want? I'm like, look, I'm good. If I want something yet, I will ask you directly for it, but I'm good, I can figure out, I prefer to figure it out for myself,

and if I need a little nudge, just point me in the right direction. Because it feels good to do, you know, when you've got skills and talents that help other people, you get such a selfish benefit from it that they don't know about. It's the oddly circular thing of doing things for other people that it's very much for yourself.

There's a study that says, it's a 10X return, giving a gift as opposed to buying it for yourself. You spend a pound on yourself as the equivalent and spending a pound on someone else is like spending 10 on you. And yeah, it is bizarre that the most selfish thing you can do is be selfless. Yeah, and it's so counterintuitive. If I have a coach or that that's been struggling, there's suddenly picked up a few hundred clients and their businesses doubled, and now they can take their wife and kid on holiday or they can, and it's just like that's what it's all about.

For me, that's transition in the B2B market with helping people, and that's a strange market to be in because everyone on the surface level looks like they're wanting to do the same things for people. You're building a business of competitors, yeah. Yeah, and that's just like, well, that's what it's all about. There's a great book, The Go Giver, which I love, and it has a huge business narrative in that about that. It doesn't matter if they're competitors. If you are good and you're even as a competitor

to pattern them on the back, they'll always remember that. If they're the right person that you're mentored. So that's all good, success-free success. And if you're not caught up by it or intimidated by it, everybody wins. And it's having that mentality and practicing that and listening to your own thoughts and feelings about others as well. So I'm very much motivated by envy. I think envy can be a help and a hindrance in life where you see things that other people want and you want them for yourselves. And I think the mistake that a lot of people make is that they're looking at materialistic things rather than kind of

holistic things. I had someone say to me, I'll sow and sow, doing so well, you know, it's got all these clients, it's on all these things. I'm like, well, in order for you to have what they have you, and this comes from the bell, I can't actually. In order for you to have what that person has, you need to completely change your life. And I said to my phone, well, you've got two kids and a wife, in order for you to have what that person has, you need to completely change your life. And I said to my phone, well, you've got two kids and a wife. In order for you to have what that person has, you have to give them up too, because you can't just pick the things that you want

from that person you've got to pick the life. And when you realize that, it's like, it allows you to think the things that you do have, because I think when you're envious about a person, you'll just focus on one variable without the entire package that comes with that. You don't know what the price is, man. I did a written entire article around that one quote

from Navalon, the knowledge project with Shane Parrish. You cannot take part of someone's life, you have to take the whole. You don't know what the price is to be Elon Musk. You don't know if he's disgusted when he looks in the mirror. If he can't go to bed at night, if he's got rampant erectile dysfunction, if he doesn't have a relationship with his father

where he can't speak to him, you don't like, you love the idea of being Conor McGregor, but do you want to spend years and years rolling the same techniques and throwing the same combinations whilst living in your parents like Atik in Ireland? You want to be that Instagram influencer, but do you really, do you know what they're like, like what if they haven't had an orgasm in months,

what if they can't bear to eat food without feeling sick about themselves, what if they're terrified that they've leveraged their entire sense of self-worth to outsource to a bunch of people who they don't even know on the internet. Like all of these things are the unseen prices that you would have to pay to be that person. You can't just have Elon Musk's work ethic and his money.

You have to take the entire package. And I think realizing that, it's a bit interesting about what you said about envy there about how it's useful. I certainly find myself now being envious of, perhaps your ability to deal with discomfort, your ability to be resilient to setbacks and have that third party perspective. That's the sort of thing that I agree there is a degree of envy where it can be useful.

It's the right thing to be envious of not a Ferrari or a house or how many followers you have. I think that's understanding why you know, like, why you envious about that thing, you know, and it's a lot of the things that a people are envious about is of having that thing of how it looks to other people. And it comes back to that thing of you're trying to impress people that don't care. And you don't, and you don't actually like. You know, and how much of that, so how much of that realization is just getting older? You know, I think it's this kind of thing.

I think it's that realization that, you know, I started on TikTok last year. I didn't realize I was old until I joined TikTok. And I was just like, so people calling me like, all right, boom, I'm like, fuck, I'm like, Jesus Christ, I'm old. And I think, yeah, I think a lot of it has to do with it, because you know, as you do get older, you do get what, you know, older, wiser, but then you've made more mistakes and you've got more experience. And I think as well, as you eat, I think the

true wisdom will start to come when other people around you are dying of old age, when other people are getting sick and ill and you actually then realize that life is short. And I think a lot of people are scared about getting old and I'm so looking forward to it. I obviously don't want to fast forward my life towards it but I I just think, you know, in the in my 50s and six days, it's going to be incredible. I really, really wish. You imagine how much wisdom you'll have accrued by that point, how, how mindful you'll be, how capable of helping others you'll be.

I agree, man, that's the, the beauty and a common theme that some of the listeners may have pulled out of this conversation is that having a growth mindset bulletproofs you against a lot of things. It's bulletproofed your relationship with your misses from like children to 22 years down the line because you've both allowed yourselves to grow together. That has been a common theme. The same thing with your physical pursuits. Yeah, maybe the specifics, like the flavor of it has changed, but the direction and the journey has kind of stayed relatively the same. So on and so forth.

Having a growth mindset is a superpower, as is being curious, as is a couple of other a couple of other elements that you can add into your life. But man, I, um, I really think, I keep asking myself this question. The reason I asked about the getting older thing is with the advent of so much self-development, I can see Seth Golden and James Cleve's atomic habits just behind you on the desk. With the advent of self-development, what we're trying to do is hurried the onset of this wisdom, right? We're trying to expedite our access to wisdom at a younger age. So, it's why some of the people that are in my modern wisdom, Big Dick's group that

help with the project. They're like 24 years old, this guy George, 24 years old and he's a mother for, he's like some sage fucking silicon valley, like Forsyth Clevoient guy. And I'm like, at 24 I didn't know my ass from my elbow and we are trying to expedite this, but I wonder how much of that is just repackaging people getting older. You know, like how when a medicine is released and they need to control for how much better someone's recovery would have been simply due to time. I feel like that's the equivalent with some personal development. I'm like, yeah, this is great. But like after three or four years, I would have hoped I would have stumbled upon some

of this stuff in any case. You know, I mean, trying to separate the two of how much you can expedite and how much is just a byproduct of existing for a bit longer. Yeah, and the way that I look at it is, unfortunately, some people will never experience it. But I think it always comes at the right time. And in the right time, at the beginning feels like the wrong time. Because any massive change of my life has come from immense amount of pain. And I think it's very hard to find a young age wisdom unless you've been through a lot of pain. And it's, and I think some of the,

you know, some of the younger generation that I've spoken to, they've been through a lot of pain. And it's, and I think some of the, you know, some of the younger generation that I've spoken to, they've been through a lot of pain. They've been through a lot of things in their life, you know, like the reason that I got kind of experienced and wise quick as I joined the, joined the army. You know, I remember getting on a train at 17 throwing up and crying because I was just about to change my life and be away from my family for the first time in 17 years. But that I grew up having to be more independent. And then my first operational tour in Baghdad, you're like hugging my dad and saying, I might not be back because you don't know what's

going to happen. And it's all these things that you process at the age of like a very early 20s that enable you to have perspective on other things that happen in life. But then you'd look at someone like my brother who's would have been, you know, hasn't done all of that experience, doesn't have that kind of level of knowledge and it's fascinating because you know, you're looking to go that, you know, not disrespects my brother, but that could have been me. Like, you know, this could have been my mindset with things.

Had I not just shut this fucking mouth and open these ears. But I think as well, I think one of the talents of younger people, which is a super power, if you can find someone, is just the ability to not be distracted and to listen. And I think a lot of people that, a lot of people listen to respond,

not listen to understand. And that's what PogCut, I think the biggest change for me was when I discovered this PogCut button on my iPhone in 2011 because it was the first time I shot the fuck up and listened. And it had a huge impact on my mindset by listening to people who knew a hell of a lot more about life than I did. And I think that was the pinnacle change for me sort of nine, was at nine, yeah, nine years ago.

And look at you now, man, killing it in the podcast game, creating content, helping other people, helping other people to do it as well. Yeah, and I think because I realized the power of just shutting up and listening to people, and I wish I knew that at school. That's, you know, I think that's a byproduct of the curiosity as well, man. I really do. The genuine hunger, the desire to find out why or what or how or who. That actual genuine desire is so unique and so powerful. And it sounds like the pithiest fucking most like wanky quote in the world to say something like that. But it genuinely genuinely is.

And it's a go factor like your mum and dad saying, well, you've got two ears and one mouth for a reason. And you're like, oh God, parents were always right. Like, in one way or another, weren't they? Yeah, exactly. And I think a lot of things all gear back to a very few amount of fundamentals. And it's just as of anything, you know, what you understand when it comes to fitness and fat

logic just comes down to eating less than you burn if you want to lose weight, but just understand that there's many different ways of being able to achieve that. And I think, you know, when you discover what the fundamental of happiness is, then there's many different ways to achieve it. But there's so many people saying, I'll be sat in the other one. It all comes from finding people that you listen to and understand quotes.

People say, oh, it's so cliche this and that. And like, yeah, but if it works for you, then do it. And everyone, I live my life through analogies and quotes. That's how my brain functions through parables and stories, because any part of my life that I'm struggling with, I'll have found a parable to answer it. And that's why I love books like Chicken Soup for the Soul by Jack Canfield. And a lot of other very much the old ones that you hear at school. You know, Aesop's fables, some of those are probably the key fundamentals of life,

especially the tortoise and the hare. You know, that just solidifies James Clears' atomic habits. Aesop was James Clears before James Clears was James Clears. Couldn't agree, Mom, man. Like we're symbolic beings, right? Jordan Pete, someone I went to go see him live. He said, why does Thomas the Tank Engine need a face? He's a tank engine.

Why do you need to personify this tank engine? It's because we personify everything in life. You give your car like a person, oh, she's a bit this today, she's got these little quirks. It's like, it is by its very nature and inanimate machine. Yeah. And people put, people put fucking eyelashes on cars. Have you done that?

And no, I, like, it's one of my trigger points. Do you feel very strongly about this? I feel incredibly strongly about putting eyelashes on cars. It's one of, that and Android phones are my non-negotiables. We are, you are friends here. You are among friends here. Do this been awesome. Thank you so much for your time. Where should people go? They want to find out more about you or they want to check out your products, where do you want to plug?

I would say the best place to go is just head on over to Instagram, at J. Alderton. Most of my stuff there. I get back to most of my messages. So, if you are listening to this and something resonated with you, I'd love to hear what it was. Unreal, man. Thank you so much for your time. Everything we've gone through will be linked in the show notes below. I'll try and find the article that I was talking about to do in the Val Ravakant jealousy. And obviously, J's fantastic insta. We'll be linked there as well. For now, man, thank you. Chris, thank you.