Modern Wisdom - #254 - Cory Allen - The Story Behind Binaural Beats

Episode Date: December 5, 2020

Cory Allen is an audio engineer, meditation coach and author. Binaural Beats have been brought into popularity over the last few years for assisting meditation, deep focus, sleep and more. But what are they and how do they work? Big thanks to Cory for his insights and for cutting some of his awesome tracks into this episode for a very unique listening experience where you'll get to hear exactly how Binaural Beats sound. Sponsor: Get a 21 Day Free Trial to a supercharged calendar at https://usewoven.com/wisdom (discount automatically applied) Extra Stuff: Follow Cory on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/heycoryallen/  Check out Cory's Website - http://www.cory-allen.com/   Get my free Ultimate Life Hacks List to 10x your daily productivity → https://chriswillx.com/lifehacks/ To support me on Patreon (thank you): https://www.patreon.com/modernwisdom - Get in touch. Join the discussion with me and other like minded listeners in the episode comments on the MW YouTube Channel or message me... Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chriswillx Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/chriswillx YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/ModernWisdomPodcast Email: https://www.chriswillx.com/contact  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello friends, welcome back. Can you hear that lovely warm, sure SM7B microphone sound? I may be sad to be back from Dubai because it is absolutely fucking freezing in the UK, but I'm finally back with my proper setup. It was lovely being away, but I have missed the glorious warm tones of this beautiful microphone. Anyway, onto today's episode, I'm speaking to Corialyn who was episode 12 of something on the show. He's a meditation expert, but I got him on today to talk about Binaural Beats. You may have seen this term touted around the internet. It's a specific type of music sound that you listen to, which is proclaimed to assist with focus, with relaxation, with meditating, with going to sleep, with a whole bunch of

different things, and Corey makes some of the coolest binaural beats that I've ever heard. So I thought, come on, explain to us what they are, and we've done a super special edit on this episode, and he's actually spliced some of the songs that we're talking about so you'll actually get to hear Binaural Beats throughout this episode. I'm not sure if I need to give a warning, I don't know how effective a 30 second sample of Binaural Beats will be at putting someone to sleep but if you are tired and driving on the motorway and it's late at night, maybe pick something else that isn't one with music designed to make you relax, thrown in, part way through. Longer term, I would certainly be

very, very interested in doing more stuff like this. I have a ton of exciting ideas of how I can deliver a podcast in a unique and novel way, and this is just the first of that. Sadly, I'm not an audio engineer, as you may be able to hear from some of the errors that inevitably creep through as these episodes go out. I do all of the edits myself, but the show is getting to this stage where hopefully I'll be able to employ an audio engineer who will be able to come in and do,

all sorts of different things. Splicing in interviews, original footage, original sound, recordings from vlogs and other bits that I've taken as a part of life, as opposed to from media on the wider internet. So yeah, let me know what you think about this. I think it could be pretty cool to try and do more things like this, and I'm just like playing around with the medium of podcasts. Other other news, the next month, I don't know, I keep going on about it, but the next month is just so good. Rory Sutherland is coming this Monday. He genuinely is one of the best guests on the internet.

So get ready for that one. Nim's perger, MBE, talking about his ridiculous mountain climbing. He's been doing recently. Diren, Mr Diren himself, is also coming on after our trip out to Dubai. Yeah, it's a's a packed packed month. But for now, it's time for the wise and wonderful Corey Allen. Corey Bloody Allen in the building. How are you, friend? I'm good, man. How's your killings? It's slowly reattaching my leg to my foot, which is what I wanted. I've been walking around for quite a while in flip-flops in Dubai But to which my physiotherapists said cut them up and throw them in the bin immediately But yeah, I'm back and back in the UK a little bit of a tan and ready to get back on the rehab

This sounds like a coming of age novel flip flops in Dubai It is I found myself and it was a proper pair of shoes. Nice man, well I'm glad it's healing. I just remembered that as we started here. Yeah, it was a serious setback, but honestly, I found a level of fortitude that kind of came out of me that I didn't even know existed. With so bizarre, I thought, I don't know, I thought I knew it was like opening a door inside of a house I'd lived in my entire life to a room that I didn't know existed.

And very much kind of found a level of resilience that was almost like, it was almost endogenous, it almost surfaced when it was needed in a way that kind of makes me question about just how cerebral and just how much I know about myself. Yeah, so what were you finding against? It was more that I presumed when I would reach a setback like that, some serious trauma that I've gone through periods of depression and sadness and stuff like that before. And I just thought, oh man, my constitution is not going to do well with this kind of a setback. Despite all of the stoicism and fantastic guests I've spoken to on this show and all the rest of it, I just presumed that I would, I didn't think I had the sort of makeup that would deal with it fantastically well. And honestly, like a lot of it was

hard work and I can be proud of the development in myself that I've done to get myself to that point. But there was something else as well. There was another few gears inside of me that I didn't know I was going to find. And yeah, I didn't have the world ending inertia that I perhaps feared was going to occur. I'm very quickly was able to focus on doing what I could do. And you hear this all the time, right? You hear the robot people who go through tragedies and who end up using that as the springboard

for something even greater. And it's kind of just a bit like a fable that isn't it? You just think, oh yeah, that's good for that. Yeah, yeah. It's also kind of good and bad because that's one of the things that is sort of a problem in culture right now is the inability for people to accept themselves just as people. Like everything has to be this extraordinary, you know, heroes,

tale, and no one's allowed to just like be a person. So, so like it makes people feel like if you're injured and you have the seculeys, you know, time that you need to spend kind of just low-key, relaxing, there's this weird feel because of sort of internet culture in some way that's like, well, if you aren't using that as a springboard to change your life than you're a loser, you know, and it's like, no, it's also okay just to sit and do nothing and just be a person and be all right for a minute, you know. Yeah, that's a function of seeing the highlight reel of everybody else, right? Totally, totally.

Almost any incident is also a potential for content. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So it's like unless you're taking a selfie, whilst the operation's going on and recording a podcast, then it's got to be in the newsletter and everyone just feels like a budget Gary V. So yeah, I get that very, very much. So today I want you to talk about, we've already had you on the show. You're episode like 12 and this is gonna be 250 something.

So everyone that wants to find out about your approaches for meditation, go back and listen to that, it was a fantastic episode. But today, your other, I guess, internet commodity that you travel in, that you end up shipping is binaural beats. And it's something that myself and some of the other guys I regularly have on the show, we have

played around with, we use and are joining the huge fan of brain FM, and also uses some of your tracks as well to work to and to sleep to and for meditation. But I've never really heard of anyone give a breakdown of what binaural beats are, why they exist, what their effects are, how they're made, all that stuff. So I wanted to get yourself into a kind of breakdown the fourth wall a little bit about it. So where do we begin? Man, absolutely. Yeah. Well, thanks for having me on and I'm happy to dive into it with you. Well, I think that beginning, we're just defining

some terms is useful because, like meditation, dealing with anything that's effervescent, or it's not a physical thing. So it's conceptual, like audio is a bit harder to grasp for some people. So just sort of introducing what the vinyl beats are. So first off, vinyl means basically stereo. So monorl is like one single sound.

So if you think in your headphones, or whatever, you've got a left and a right headphone that's left and right. So it's two by BI and an oral. So it's 2 by BI and an RL. So it's 2 sound. In a mono, all would be a single mono signal, which is like an old record player or something. That is like the horn, the gramophone player. We're just the horn coming out. That's mono. That's one. But also all voice recordings are mono. And for a bit of useless more detail, I will say that and most mono sounds that you hear are then they're split to stereo. So it's the same thing coming

through both speakers, but it's just, you know, it's still mono. Anyway, so then the beats are part of BINARLE beats. So BINARLE is Binaural is two audio signals, and beats is beating. So in music, there's a phenomenon called beating. And that is whenever you have two audio frequencies, which of course, all sound and music are all audio frequencies. When we have two audio frequencies that are close together, they vibrate, because sound moves and waves. So if you think about all sound is like it's physical, so it's moving through air.

So it's literally like you just think of a wave going up and down and up and down. And it's literally just moving through air in a physical way. It's breaking through the air as it goes. And the speed of that vibration of the wave, so something very deep sound like bass from your slam and house track that we mentioned earlier. But more particularly, the bass line, that the deep bass line you would hear that's hovering in the room during amongst the kick drum, that is a really, really slow moving waves wave.

And that's why whenever you're standing next to a subwoofer, you feel air coming through. It's because there's so much force and it's so slow that it's literally like as the wave goes up and down, it's like that negative space is actually pushing, like physically pushing air through actually. Is that that's why it happens? I never realized that. You can feel that whenever you put your hand in front of a little subwoofer you've got next to your TV, right? Yeah, totally.

It just is the little sort of those puffs coming out. Yeah, so it's literally like the sound wave is like pushing it's you know moving the air out like that. So then if you as you start to move upwards and frequencies so this based on let's move up to think of like something like a high hat or even you know even higher, that's gonna be really fast. So it's gonna the sound wave is gonna be moving really, really fast and it's gonna look like kind of almost crinkled or something like that

because it's moving so fast. And that's the high frequency, right? So that's like, or even the highest note on a piano or something is super fast. So if you really think about it, like spinning something up, whatever it is, doesn't have to be sound or music or anything. If you have something you spin it up, it gets faster. The pitch kind of naturally rises, you know, on anything like that. It's just the same property, the physical property that's happening in music and sound. So, back to the piano, you think about the piano, so this beating thing, the notes on like a piano, for example, or a guitar, are all very close to each other, like the frequencies, the vibrations,

very close. And so, if you play like a white and a black key and a piano that are right next to each other, you think about that. You hear that sort of wobbling, that like bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, that's the beating because their frequencies are tuned individually. One key is tuned to that note. The key is tuned to this other note, but they're very close together because on a piano, of course, you start from the lowest note to the highest note, it goes left or right. And they just kind of, with each key, they're incrementally tuned, a few, you know, hurts higher and higher and higher. And so you've got this nice system that you can play on that sounds good. But if you play two notes that are right next to each other that are, you know, minor and major, then you're going

to hear that beating because they're so close to each other that they're actually those sound waves are kind of interfering with each other. So if you think about that up and down wave thing happening, well now you've got two notes, so you put two of those right next to each other and they're fighting for space in error. So you think about that subwoofer pushing the error. So since all notes are moving through error, you've got these two notes that are kind of fighting for space. They're cycling at a similar speed in frequency.

And so they're colliding. And so as they're colliding, that's what creates that wobbling sound. So again, on the piano, you hit two notes black and white key right next to each other, you hear that wobble. That's literally the two frequencies fighting for space. And that's what creates the beating. Because they're fighting in physical space, you know, for room. And so that's what creates that sound. That's called the beating. So, BINARLE beats is two, you know, basically one headphone and one ear, one and the other. And then beating is the idea of two frequencies creating that wobbling sound

by being very close to each other and kind of fighting against each other. So that's just to define terms for BINARL beats, of just the actual terms. Now, the actual functional process of the tracks themselves, this is a little bit more detail about trying to make it as distinct as possible. So the overall intended effect is to be able to listen to these tracks and change the way that you're feeling, change the way that you're thinking and the way that your mind is operating. So you can, with intentionality of which track that you use, kind of course, your brain into a different zone.

So that would be either something relaxation, you know, creativity, extreme heightened perception and focus, sleep, meditation, just general kind of alertness, but still feeling calm. These kind of different states that we go in throughout the day. You know, wherever you sleep, you're obviously very relaxed. And wherever you're in the peak, pulling your day in the afternoon, you're drinking coffee, you've just worked out, that's whenever your brain is firing.

You're not in the flow state per se, but you're like in the alpha beta range, where you're really keyed up. And then, you know, at then a high performance level flow state is like the highest level of the brain. So throughout the day, we move through all of these different brain wave states, and those are really quickly delta, say, alpha, beta, and gamma. So that's from lowest to highest. Now what's interesting is that then these, okay, so in our brains, the way that thoughts

and these brain wave states are defined is basically our brain is a collection of neurons. It's a bunch of, and you please stop me at any time if this is, if I'm getting too far into one. No, please keep going. This is what we want to know. Okay, I'm trying to cut it down as much as possible. So you just trying to explain the single most complex object in the entire universe to how it relates with sounds that going to our ears. Well, one of my favorite things about the brain is it spins its entire existence,

trying to make itself realize things, which is just really bizarre. So anyway, our brain is the collection of neurons, and our brain operates in electricity, and so the way we have thoughts or the whole subsystems in different areas of the brain work at all, is that those neurons, they fire an electrical signal from one neuron to the next neuron upon a little road called a synapsis. And that's basically the synapsis connect our neurons together throughout the brain. And there's like a billion ish or whatever, or two billion, the trillion who knows, they're always raising that number of how many neurons are in the brain. And so whenever we think there's a series of neurons fire electrical signals through our

synapses to these other neurons and so on and so on, in different areas of the brain, they fire to each other and it creates this interesting little dance. And those, the speed and frequencies of those electrical signals moving throughout the brain and the neurons firing are called brain waves. So that's where we get to term brain waves. It's literally like the St. Joseph's, you think of audio waves, it's like these rolling waves of electricity firing to the brain, and those are the brain waves. So that's the delta, say, the alpha beta and those are the brain waves. So that's the dam, delta, theta, alpha, beta, gamma. Is the brain waves? So would you be able to

say that the brain waves are like an aggregate of the individual firings moving in a particular pattern that commonly goes together? Yes, exactly, exactly. We got it. Right, right. Exactly. So the idea with with Binerl beats is to be able to try and affect what brainwave state that you're in on demand. And so the concept behind the actual audio tracks is to put one tone, one of those tones in one ear at a particular frequency. So in the left headphone, you're going to have one particular frequency. Then in the right headphone, you're going to have another particular frequency, just a tone.

That's going. Now, the difference in hertz between those two tones is going to be the same difference of hertz that the speed of a particular brain wave state operates at. So like a, for example, from a theta state, and whatever the electricity, the neurons are firing, it's moving through the brain, that's generally happening at the speed of 4 to 8 hertz somewhere in there, ish. And so whenever we get more excited, we get more, the brain gets more amped up, we're processing faster, then that speeds up to 8 to 13 hertz or something like that. And it kind of continues to increase in these bands

that they've labeled these different things. So let's just make it really simple. So we think of theta and let's call it four hurts, right? So we're very relaxed. This is almost like a meditative type of state that we're in with theta. We're super calm. Just kind of consciousness is very

placid and open and everything. And so our brain waves are firing signals slowly and calmly and think of four hertz. So it's just this very slow kind of bone, that's the audio wave, the subwoofer in the brain moving up and down. So what we'd want to do to replicate that with the BINARL B is to put one frequency in the left ear, let's call it 100 Hertz. So that's the kind of like the crispest part of a cake drum, just for any audio engineers out there, kind of 100 Hertz. Then in the other

ear, the other headphone, we're going to put 104 Hertz. So just making a plane and using the metric system, well, we've 100 and then 104. So by putting 100 Hertz in one ear, 104 Hertz in the other ear, you think about what those two tones are doing when you listen to them together, right? They're creating the difference that four hertz, because they're so close, they create that beating or that wobbling type of sound, right? And so in that, creating of the four hertz vibration, the idea behind Bynorobites is that then the brain, as it hears each of those tones in each ear,

is trying to kind of mathematically make up the difference between those two frequencies, as it's hearing those individual audio tones. And in that, it entrains, that's why they call Binarl beats a brain wave in training music, is because it's then the theory is that it entrains the brain into that state of state. So the brain waves start sort of replicating and sinking into the groove of the frequency that you're hearing, and then ideally your consciousness is in shifted into that particular brain wave state. Can we hear something that is that particular theta, that ornament one? Yeah, we'll draw out, let's play this track called Opening Eye. That's the track that's theta, and we'll just play 30 seconds of that or something now.

Okay, and we're back, and I mean, I feel relaxed. Yeah, so if you can hear in that track, you know, and there's other things going on. So we can hear the vibrating tones, but of course, in these tracks, when you find these, you'll see that they're also accompanied by other musical elements to make them musical, to make them not just this technical sort of thing that's happening. And depending on the artist, you can really create a lot of emphasis. So, sort of just the beating tones are sort of the bare minimum to get the function going. Also, as a side note, just to further illuminate the conceptual nature of this isochronic, or it's a term for monophonic beating as well.

So something that their particular objects have the propensity to beat on their own, even though they're just a single object because of their physical character. So a gong. So that's exactly where I'm going. So you think about, whenever in a Buddhist temple, there's a giant gong there. And before they sit down to meditate, they hit that sucker and he goes, we'll think about that sound. It's going, bong, wong, wong, wong, wong, it's the same thing. It's the exact same thing.

So that's the beating, right? So you can take just that raw functional nature of it, and then basically whatever the artist's talent or purposes, you can then really scale that up to make it much more nuanced and succinct and impactful. And so you'll add, and of course, priority one is listenability. So you have two tones. You can add some people usually put kind of textural ambient sounds on top of them to kind of give it a further relaxing sound. And also in ambient music, one of the points there is that you don't want rhythmic moments plotted in time, per se, because you want it to be kind of off the grid. You don't want the listener to be, even if we're not doing it consciously,

we subconsciously, when we listen to any music, pay attention to the rhythmic nature of things. And if we hear, you know, one rhythmic sound that we hear kick drum, and then a snare, we're gonna expect to hear on the same beat, you know, in the same rhythm, another kick or snare and so on and so on. We expect that. Like, imagine if you had your favorite hip hop track on and every like seventh kick drum was missing, you'd probably pull a hamstring or something like that. Maybe that's how I did my Achilles.

Maybe I was listening to something that was five to the floor or something. Yeah, because you're expecting this thing. It doesn't happen. And you're like, oh, you know, so we have this, you know, this, and even in, you know, cinematic music, there's, you know, very slow-paced rhythms, we still expect this resolution to happen musically. So anyway, so in bottom of it, there's not rhythmic elements commonly because of that. You want the listener to kind of lose track of time as it were to further sink into the actual effect of the thing. So musically, this generally just kind of textural things.

Some people use nature sounds and stuff. I use those sometimes, but I also tend to use, on some of the tracks I use my own, just kind of some vocal drones, but also a lot of other kind of electronic sounds and various things. And just to go a little bit into my tracks, and if you'd like, I mean, I'm just kind of talking

endlessly here, but please tell me at any point of the same, any direction I'm going to go. No, no, the only thing I was thinking before was that I imagine you could create a binaural beat without any of the extra elements to it, and it might perhaps have the desired effect, but be so unengaging that your thoughts might sort of drift off elsewhere. Without the, in opening eye, you've kind of got these your thoughts might sort of drift off elsewhere. Without the opening eye, you've kind of got these symbols and this sort of stuff in the higher registers as well that keep it more interesting, I guess.

Yeah, and also just listening to the tones, yeah, would make someone feel like they're in like space odyssey 2001, you know, float now. It's just it would be very abstract and harder for people to relax into it because they're focusing on just this vibrating sound. It is interesting how the musical quality works as a sort of obfuscation of the technical element in some way. So you sort of aren't really focused on that as much. You're listening to the top layer and the bottom layer is doing all the dirty work.

That's funny. Trojan Horses, a really mindful music set in with something that sounds nice on top. That's right. In my tracks, I've spent 20 years as an audio producer and my whole life, also in that same time, being a student of meditation and philosophy and studying consciousness, just all the neurosciences, cognitive sciences, you know, neuroscience, consciousness, psychology, philosophy of mind, et cetera, et cetera, and music at the same time. Those things have always kind of woven into each other. They've been by no beating my whole life, those two things. and I'm not gonna be able to do that. I'm gonna be able to do that. I'm gonna be able to do that. I'm gonna be able to do that.

I'm gonna be able to do that. I'm gonna be able to do that. I'm gonna be able to do that. I'm gonna be able to do that. I'm gonna be able to do that. I'm gonna be able to do that. I'm gonna be able to do that. I'm gonna be able to do that.

I'm gonna be able to do that. I'm gonna be able to do that. with notes, the arrival, the attention and relief and expectation that people hear and the emotions and feelings that arise through listening to different orchestrated melodies and sounds, also the way that you can make sounds arrive and depart in very, I call it, kind of musical slight of hand, where it's like I have sounds that take, you know, in my barn or a beets, which are 30 minutes to an hour to two hours long, you know,

some sounds will fade in for 10 minutes. It takes that long for it to come from silence to its peak volume. And at the same time, other sounds are fading out for 10 minutes. And so they're kind of cross fading and there's a lot of that happening all at once. And so before you even realize there's a change, you're already somewhere else. And then before you realize where you are, there's yet another change.

And it's a real sneaky in particular way to keep people from really paying attention to time. And when you're timeless, where are you? You're in the present, right? And so by doing that, it's a way to kind of musically guide people to the present moment. There's an old song. There's an old song. There's an old song.

Yeah, there's a whole lot. And I could, of course, nerd out on it very deeply. But also, I get really interested in bunnero beats whenever like in the like early 2000s because I was always I've always been poking at my brain to see what happens. I'm just kind of you use myself as a lab rat, you know, for all sorts of different chemicals and experiments and whatever. But I really got me interested in them, was reading some rather esoteric writings on Buddhism and kind of fringe meditation techniques and stuff way back in the early 2000s-ish. And maybe even right before that. But I remember, so one of the things I was reading was that these some monks would

sleep on the right side, on their right side, if they wanted to have like a creative day the next day, and sleep on their left side if they wanted to have a more sort of systematic day. So the idea was that blood would saturate the right hemisphere of the brain or left hemisphere and so on. And I don't know how much efficacy is in that bit of thing, but I'm sure the psychosamatically that you're sort of, it's a nice placebo effect. But I was reading things like that and I was trying that. And I was interested in them.

I was also, I've always been fascinated with what particular frequencies, what they can do to the body. So the human body, that is. And so if you play certain tones, like first off, if anyone doesn't think that tones can affect the body, let me remind you that there are weaponized audio devices that the military and the militarized police use.

They're basically these giant, well not giant, not giant, they sort of look like, what is that dish, like the satellite dish and they play a really high-pitched audio frequency that you can't even hear because it's above the range of human hearing, which is like around 20,000 hertz. And it's those above that, but it's super loud and above that. And it literally makes you pass out or in it or can cause extreme discomfort, headaches, disorientation. No way. Because yeah, you can basically like fry someone's nervous system with super high

frequencies. So, yeah, there's legal, are they Geneva conventioned out or? Yeah, they, they are in America anyway but you know this is kind of Wild West so that's crazy that's like the South Park episode where they try and find the brown note Exactly there would be so much more funny if they use that if they could do that instead of They could make people poop the pants instead of yeah passing out yeah totally I mean because then at least it's hilarious. It's dogs in the nearby town when they're playing that thing going absolutely crazy,

having a party. Man, you know it. Yeah, we're wanting to crawl out of their fur. So yeah, so these sounds, you know, really, not only because they're just the physical nature of them, but also just the way that our body holds resonance as well. So, you know, we like a kick drum. A bass line makes it like, daft punk makes anybody want to kind of move a little bit because of the bass is like literally, you know, it's hitting your, there's a lot of research that

shows that like the bass frequencies and the rhythm of dance tracks, the reason why those rhythms and those BPMs, beats per minute, make you want to dance, one of them is because they're higher than the rate of resting heart rate. So, if it's a little bit higher than your heart rate, it makes you want to match that tempo. If you listen to something relaxing, you listen to some somba or something like that, it's like 60 beats per minute or whatever, super relaxed. Can you explain why Cardi B's WAP is done at 70 beats per minute then? Well, maybe you should like put Washington porn and then see if the rhythms and that match the rhythms

in the track. Fucking WAP, man. Yeah, I, um, I always noticed that one of the things I DJed for a short while, um, when I was younger, and even now I can tell the difference between the DJs playing it sort of 125, 126 and 128, 129, uh, 128 being sort of the classic, I guess, dance rhythm, the pacing. Right. And I went to go and see Ben Boemer from Anjunidip on the beach to buy while I was out there and the sun's setting over the horizon. And he's playing at like 123. And it's just so cool, super chill.

Yeah. It was beautiful. And that insight, I even remember thinking back then, I was like, this is so slow, but he's managed to get it right. So even that, that particular rhythm, if he'd been playing those tracks pitched up to 128 or 129, it would have given a very different sort of sensation. And I suppose that we're talking here about gradations of how music has an effect on this, right? Like Cardi B's Whap had a different effect on me to the music of Anjunidip being played at sunset. And the rhythm is a part of that, as are obviously the lyrics, as is the kick drum and all the rest of it.

But before we go on, let's play another one, man. What should we listen to next? But before we go on, let's play another one, man. What should we listen to next? Yeah, sure. So this one, let's go with, this is kind of my personal favorite, is one called luminosity. And this track is, I had so many people over the years, what kind of going out of order here, and just in the biography and kind of the reason of all these exists, but over the years, I had a lot of people hitting me up, asking me to make tracks for psychedelic journeys or for extended meditation retreats, or something like that, basically how to get

into that deep, deep part of the mind and really have some scaffolding and guidance there. And so for just rather sort of, I would call them ethical reasons. I didn't call them like music for psychedelics or whatever. Yeah, because one, I think it's a little corny and also I never, you know, just kind of philosophically, I never want to be instructing people to do things or anything at all, I never, you know, just kind of philosophically, I never want to be instructing people to do things or anything at all, much less, you know, trying to, you know, influencing people.

So people do what you want, you know, but anyway. So it's called music for deep work as the collection. And, you know, and also it doesn't, it, you know, I think we can do deep work in a lot of ways, you know, with whether without chemicals, and it's important to highlight that as well. So this is one of the tracks in its luminosity. Okay, so yeah, you can hear that track has

more pronounced kind of musical qualities to it that are still sparse and stretched out, but it is going in that theta range to keep getting that deep creativity very, very calm, relaxed type of zone. And some of the tracks, this one being one of those, I get a little tricky with them because I will take it from one brainwave state and because I will take it from one brainwave state and slide down slowly over the course of the track sometimes because people are already kind of keyed up as humans anyway. They were already kind of dialed up and like tense and weird and fidgety and just stressed and you know we all are overly stimulated and oversaturated. So kind of starting somewhere on place and then slowly have them sort of like sinking down

into the sand like as it goes on, which I don't know if I've ever mentioned that publicly that I do that some times before. Cheeky, cheeky, cheeky, cheeky. But it's kind of like frog in boiling water type. Yes, exactly. Except for it's a hot tub, not a boiling water. Hot tub to cool bath bath. Yeah exactly. Yeah

Yeah, yeah, so So anyway, so sounds affect the body now But but been really fast in with that, you know over my life and there's a lot of research out there some Weirdo fringe, you know stuff some actually academic Over what particular tones can affect the body in what ways. And there's like, I mean, I have a huge archive of research from over, as I said earlier, the time that I was in my early 20s or late teens or 20s, I got interested in this in the 2000, around the year 2000.

And I just started like researching and reading and collecting these different things. And I would make these audio tracks with different frequencies to kind of see how they made me and other people feel. And it just kind of my interest in that evolved from there. So I did make some BinoBit tracks back then. And then I guess probably five or six years ago, what was funny is that my friend, Audrey, hit me up and was like, Hey, I've been, I want to try Bino beats. You know, I've heard that they're really awesome.

But do you think like, have you ever made any? And I was like, yeah, you know, like, I don't know, 15 years ago. And he's like, would you be down like some? And I was like, yeah, sure, sure. So I made some. And I was just like, just making them to make them and Then I let him listen to them and he was just like dude. What the fuck is this? This is crazy You know these like this is like a

Blunt like what's happening here? And so in the course of me making them You know the last you know the 15 years of compositional experience and music production experience, all culminated in meditation, just familiarity with consciousness. And ultimately also the awareness of the texture of my own mind in any given moment. I think becoming acutely aware of that became very valuable in making these tracks.

And it's why they have kind of the, one of the reasons why they have kind of the magical quality that they do is because through, you know, 20 years of meditation, I've gotten to where I'm very aware of like, how my consciousness is shifting in the moment where it's at, like, as I said, you know, the texture of mind. And also, I'm aware of when that's being changed and influenced.

And so in the creation of the tracks, I put a lot of detail, a lot of interesting little, you know, tricky things. And now, like I mentioned to you, and I'm kind of tuning them all musically, you know, rhythmically, the actual frequencies themselves, until I feel that flow state shift in my own consciousness. And it's not even necessarily like a mixing issue or a spatial issue or a particularly a harmonic issue. It's more of just listening and getting the pallet set and then adding and moving everything until I'm what I'm what I'm what I'm what I'm what I'm what I'm what I'm what I'm what I'm what I'm what I'm what I'm what I'm what I'm what I'm what I'm what I'm what I'm what I'm

what I'm what I'm what I'm what I'm what I'm what I'm what I'm what I'm what I'm what I'm what I'm what I'm what I'm what I'm what I'm what I'm what I'm what I'm what I'm what I'm what I'm what I'm what I'm what I'm what I'm what I'm what I'm what I'm what I'm what I'm there it is. And so that's sort of why all these tracks have that quality to them, is because I'm literally like tuning them to my own mind until I feel them like, I'll turn the key, you know, and when they turn the key, I'm like, there it is. Now it's just a matter of finishing it off. Is it a different way to create a two hour long binaural beat track that you're aiming to resonate with your mind in a particular way? Like, if you're sat in the mixing studio, I imagine you must need to get yourself in quite a different place as if you're sat in the mixing studio, I imagine you must need to get yourself

in quite a different place as if you're mastering down a hip hop track or something. No, I mean, what's funny about that is that over, I don't know, I've gotten to where, over the years, I'm very, I'm kind of like a surgeon with music. I got, it's not that I'm not clinical. It's not that I'm clinical about it in the sense that I don't have any feeling or care,

but I'm very removed from being influenced by whatever I'm listening to generally. I try and, it's because I sort of want to remain objective in the process and not get swept up in, it's strange, it's one of the confusing things about like Buddhism as well. It's a. It's one of the confusing things about like Buddhism as well. This is a talk about cultivating a dispassion for everything, for pleasure. And people are like, why would I want to not want to feel pleasure? It doesn't make any sense, but I'm kind of articulating

that further. It's like, oh, well, you can enjoy the pleasure, but you don't want to crave and desire and to want the pleasure, or else it has control over you, and it becomes a point of suffering, because whenever that thing fleets as all things do, then you have a void and you seek this pleasure again, you have the passion for the pleasure, you go look for it, and you begin to suffer, and then that kind of daisy chains on with all of the elements of suffering. So by cultivating a spacious dispassion for pleasure, then when a pleasure comes, you can deeply enjoy it and receive it, but still not be addicted and have the craving that creates the suffering. That's kind of how I look at music production. It's like I have kind of a, I have a dispassion for it in the sense that I hear I'm here

I receive it when it's happening I do Instinctively and intellectually what I know needs to happen to it But don't get caught up in in all of the human stuff with it I'm absolutely adamant that Cardi B felt the same way when she was recording Definitely the lyrics to what and Megan the stallion she was very very famous for her principle of non-attachment yeah she's well that track had quite an effect on you yeah absolutely blown away by it man i find it i find that track particularly and then the

associated social media furore that came out after it to just be fascinating. And that's a whole other discussion that I think we could get into. It's great, right? Megan Stein is amazing. Her new album is, if you want, I don't know if you've heard her album that came out last Friday, but I'd recommend that. Yeah, so next. What have we got next? Let play another song we've got we played the luminosity in opening eye. What else we got? Yeah, yeah, so I'll we'll go into yet another direction. I'll just wrap up that what I was talking about real quickly and that is you know So I gave these tracks to Aubrey and he listened to them and was like man, this is amazing And so as we kind of talked about them a little bit further

We're like, you know, it was like, man, this is amazing. And so as we kind of talked about them a little bit further, we're like, you know, it's like, maybe, maybe we should like offer these to people. We could sell them, put them on a website. This is before I even had like a store on my website. You say, we could put them on my website and see who digs them. And so I did a, you know, we did some podcasts. We talked about them.

And they just like the response was just crazy. It was like, I never would have anticipated the amount of feedback and like response and stuff that listeners had to, to the Binar of Beats. So it started where I just, I think it's kind of since then, I've never not got a message, you know, a day without someone saying, dude, I love these are, I listen to these every day. Thank you, you know. What's the most common usage that you've found people use them for?

I think two things, either meditation or for focus. So we'll get the focus thing right after this. And so, yeah, man, it was really fascinating. I ended up licensing those to on it. And so that was cool. They became a nice fixture within the on it world and expand out from there. And then they just kind of continued in my own way to like, okay, well, I made those. Let me continue on to the different intentional purposes of each one that people are hitting me up and asking for. And also,

intentional purposes of each one that people are hitting me up and asking for. And also, I'm constantly my curiosity and been drive to kind of, I don't know, I guess, improve upon a craft and like hone in something just as natural. And so I'm always like, well, let's see if I can how powerful and potent can I make these? I's go. I mean, I still say that the release into now meditation series that you did, which will be linked in the show now to below, is still my favorite guided meditation. For anyone who wants to take it to the next level, it's, in my opinion, it's a big ask for a beginner

because the sessions are like half an hour, but if you've spent a little bit of time and you've built up at a base level of a habit, like that thing just super over space of six weeks, just totally super charges. There's not a single person that I've said, you need to go and get this to kind of level up your meditation game and they haven't come back

and gone like, what the fuck was that? Ha ha ha, some man, that's awesome to hear, thank you. Thank you. One of my buddies did it and I think he really struggled for the first few, this is a compliment, I think. But he struggled for the first few days to stay awake during them. And he found himself just immediately going to sleep, even if he slept perfectly fine the week before. This is also a friend to whom I sent Sam Harris explaining determinism and the Alakafri will. And it sent him into a two week spiral of depression.

So I've done quite a lot, I've done quite a lot to this friend of the last year. So Luke, I wanna apologize to you again, buddy. I didn't mean to. And also, man, Luke check out compatibilism. That's another, that's maybe that will still better with you. That is the answer.

Yeah. Sorry, I'll interject there, man. There's a recent Daniel Dennett paper that he just published on Expanding free will have you seen this? No, I'll send it to you. I'll send it to you on some Donate anyone that wants to to read it. It's available for free if you just search Expanding Free Will Daniel Dennett on Google really like fascinating study. I was reading that sleep deprived on the way back from Dubai and that made for like that was the visual equivalent of B Binaural beats, I think, because I'm reading these words and I'm trying to work out what the hell is going on. But yeah, man, releasing to now, let us say,

anybody that wants to kind of really up level their meditation game, just go and do that over this base of six weeks, you will change an awful lot about how you see meditation, I think. Oh, well, thank you, man. Thank you. It's interesting is that again, I made that five, six years ago, and people still are supporting it and very interested and they're always coming to it. And it's interesting to me. I actually went back and listened to some of it because I was like, well, it's been five

years. I was my first attempt at ever like teaching anything. And so I was just like, I hope it still holds up and it was some of it, because I was like, well, it's been five years. Like, you know, I was my first attempt to never like teaching anything. And so I was just like, I hope it still holds up and it was kind of refreshing. I clicked through some of it and I was like, ah, okay, it's still pretty, so it's about that old world. Yeah.

Yeah. Also, as a funny side note on Daniel Bennett, I've been, his book, Consciousness Explained, I got in the late 90s, I think, and that was a big impact on me whenever I was a teenager. And I really liked that one. And I actually emailed Tufts University whenever I was like 19, 20 or something and asked if I could come be a free, like an intern or assistant for Daniel Dent.

And yeah, they didn't reply. But it's been. But little Daniel Dent know that he'd just turned down the opportunity to get free by neural beats for life. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. I think he's more interested in sailing and you have on the coast. He's almost in dude.

So one of the things I've noticed is that the two areas that you mentioned were deep focus and meditation. So quite mindful, quite open, quite present. But you mentioned that we've got these higher ranges as well, that we go into in terms of frequencies. Is that something that you just don't think people really need or is it something that you actively tend to avoid in terms of creating binaural beats? No, no, it's an important one. It's one of the most popular. So that's what's a good primer to move into the next thing. And so I guess a lot of the work I do generally through the meditation

course or my podcast or the music, a lot of it is about trying to get people to calm down You know, they mean calm down relax be present and sort of wake up to their own awareness That's for a lot of my stuff does so also the other the counterpoint to that the balance that is the extreme focus the flow state the gamma state So the gamma state is the highest state. You know, it's is, you know, heightened perception, flow, kind of existence, mind. And so, yes, that is a very a lot faster of a vibration. That's generally what, you know, 40 to 60 hertz. Some people clocked at about 100. But I think that 40 to 60 issues, right? Just knowing that I felt one of our experiments with them.

So on the first set of binarobites I made, which I mentioned to you that I shared with Aubrey, there was a track on there called Gamma Flow. And that was basically pretty self-explanatory. But it was meant to be the, that was a collection kind of, that was a collection, you know, so that you get all sorts of different tracks in that collection. And now it was the flow state track. And now when I think has been one of the most popular of all of all time, because it's

really apparently has had a profound effect on listeners helping to get into their, their concentration state and their concentrations state and their flow state. And the amount of people that have emailed me over the years that have said, Hey, I wrote my entire book to this. I wrote my page. Yeah. Like I listened to this on repeat. People have seen me like screenshots of their their Apple like not you know, on iTunes like the amount played like the play count. You know, like here's Gamma Flow played, you know, 230 times. I'm like, 230 times that track's half an hour long, you know. And like, yeah, I listened to it for a year of interp

to I was finishing my PhD thesis or whatever. And it's just like endless, endless, yeah. And so that track, people are really, really like for Flow State. And yeah, so there's that one. And then after that, because people dug that so much, I ended up making the second volume of Binar obiets, I released with Aubrey, are all flow state tracks. So it's four different flow state tracks. So we can play some of Gamma flow right now. Yes. All right. So, that's that one.

It's pretty minimal and spacious, but you can probably feel that flow happening. These are, of course, 30-second-ditch samples that we're playing here. The reason the tracks are so long is that, general in the playlist from 30 minutes to two hours is because the idea is the longer you listen to it, the longer your brain has the longer time as to sink into it, get into the zone. I think that generally they say it's about at least two to four or five minutes to really enter the open the door. Now it's in other five minutes to get further into the the door, you know, and now it's in other kind of five minutes to get further into sort of like meditation, you know, further into it and then so on and so on.

And once you can hit the 10 to 20 minute mark, you're really sailing. What's the, it's like a washing sort of air wind sound in that gamma flow track. What's that? Yeah. Oh, that's that's that's kind of that's meant as a the stereo effect to really confuse time. So and it actually is a recording of air that I took. It's like the coast recording of the white waves. Yeah. Very sneakily, very, very quiet room. But it's pretty up on it, right? Because it's, yeah, really, real quiet room and powerful microphone. Now, you ever speaking of that as a side note, you ever heard of an anecdote chamber before? Yes, but I don't remember what it is.

It's like a sound, soundless room. So there's basically is designed inside to where there's no reflections. So basically whenever we hear sound we're generally hearing the reflections of sound, not the actual sound itself. So if you're in a room and you talk, you're not really hearing your voice, you're hearing your voice bounce off the wall behind you and off the ceiling and off the floor and so forth. But in one of the, that's why music studios have sound absorption and panels because it wants to break those reflections and those resonances. So the microphone can actually record the source, and so the sound of the room.

Also, interestingly enough, since we're in a sound wormhole, every space has its own frequency. So the square footage of a room and the material that the room is made out of, like the area of the room, it itself has a tone. So if you're when you're talking in your room, the width and length and height of the room itself, and as I said, the material of the wall, so how the reflections are coming, actually have its own tone. So if you speak in one room,

it's gonna, there's a different kind of passenger in there with you. And that's why auditoriums and music halls are very precisely designed so that they don't have that, or they mainly, they have an amplifying effect, but no real resident effect. I remember once in one of the nightclubs that we were working out of it, it had a huge

back wall. So you can imagine it's got this high, high ceiling, and then halfway down the room, this high ceiling chops down into a low ceiling that continues to go. And the speakers at the front were throwing toward the back. And upon refurb, the guys, the builders had taken down this huge frame. It was like an image sort of post, like a thick poster at the back on this main back wall. And they'd taken those down and the guys sound checked and through the speakers back on in this new configuration. And it sounded so quiet. Like they were blasting these speakers to hell and it sounded super

super quiet. And what we realized was that that back wall, the painting poster thing had actually been a bunch of conical sound absorbers. And what you were getting was the sound being thrown from the front, hitting itself on the way back from the wall and getting almost completely zeroed out, which was insane. You could turn it up super, super loud and it would just sound like nothing because the sound hit the back wall, hit itself and then just killed it. Yeah, that's like a low frequency oscillator, like an LFO. You'll see that on synthesizers or in, or even like a watt pedal, like for guitar, like Jimi Hendrix, you know, that's in like an LFO. So it's like creating a subsonic sound that actually, so subsonic sounds are frequencies that are below even like, you know, human hearing, like, wayble of the term subsonic. And they're so deep and,

you know, the wave is so big that it pushes every like sounds out of the air And so with a wall pedal that's why it sounds wall wall whenever you move the pedal is because it's literally creating like a break You know in the actual sound or even like a tremolo effect when you hear something going like don't like statically Dada no no no no no that's because it's just like literally there's a Sub-sonic frequency pushing out all the audio there in a rhythmic way. It's like just blasting it out so it cancels it out. There's a club in Glasgow called the sub club and that has a subsonic dance floor.

So it's got subsonic speakers built into the actual dance floor itself. So when you have bass tones that come through that, you feel it through your feet. Nice. That's awesome. That's a L drive elephants, man. They can send, I read something sometime, is it they can like hear each other from miles away because you know a bass travels obviously. And they can send like sounds that are so deep that the bass will just travel like a mile or something. And of course they got big ass ears. And so that I just think it's so interesting for an animal.

It's of course their size and like their resonance. There's just they're a big old. That's a big double base right there. But like just an animal being able to send that deep of a base sound. This is a peculiar. It's like what if you could admit a subwoofer sound from your body. Upon demand. Yeah, that's like kind of what they're doing, sort of wild. Some of the blue whale noises and stuff as well, those can go for absolutely, I know obviously that sound conduction in water is significantly better than it is through air. Totally.

Yeah, that goes for forever, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, okay. So I don't remember where we were really We did that one. Yeah. All right. So yeah, we did that one. Um, and Yeah, so that's a really great when you're people people would dig that in the second collection was for, you know, all for flow and so since then, um, I've mainly created tracks that are for meditation, for relaxation, for the deep work and so on. And I think that moving on to perhaps the last piece is one for sleep. So that's another thing that people hit me up so much about. And I got so many messages, the people saying, like, hey, I've been working, like this is pre-lockdown times.

But people are saying, like, I've been working 10 hours a day and going to university at nighttime. And I have two kids on the verge of just a mental breakdown. And I'm so fried and freaked out by the end of the day, I can't sleep. And the only thing I've been able to sleep is someone hooked me up with one of your tracks, and this has been helping me de-escalate

and get to sleep a night, so just thank you, whatever. I have gotten that message a hundred times, and it made me realize, okay,, like a hundred times. And it made me realize like, okay, people need something for sleep. And then, you know, of course, as tends to happen in this weird world, as I started thinking about that, of course, I started having people message me requesting, like, hey, you ever thought about making tracks for sleep? Yeah. Okay, let's clear what is next. And so I made, yeah, I the next, the tracks for sleep. And these are really deep.

These are Delta tracks. So these are to guide the mind literally to like dreamless sleep, complete lack of body awareness type of zone. And obviously people aren't going to be sleeping with headphones in most times, but I made the tracks like two hours long. So the idea is that you can, you get in bed, you know, and then you start listening to one of these, you may be reading or something like that, and then in that hour that you're kind of like chilling out before you actually try and sleep, you're already listening to that, getting into the zone.

And then, you know, once you turn the lights off and probably take the headphones off, then you're going to be like right there. So it can help you. It's kind of like a sleep primer. It's how I pretty worked out. Pretty worked out. But, but there's a lot of, it's interesting. There are actually a lot of people out there that do use, like there's headbands with like

your, your buds built in. Mews. The guys who do that portable ekeg, the brain sensing headband for meditation. So I just got popped by one of their ads the other day and they've created something that must track your brain waves or your brain states while you sleep. Yeah, I talked to Ariel Garten, the founder of Muse and she was telling me a while back, like last year, that was their next product. So it's cool that it's... It's cool to see. It's come to market, man, I've seen it. But yeah, you're totally right. The world for this stuff,

there's state app, which is by Brian McKenzie, which is a breathwork application, and then the silent mode, which is a face mask with inbuilt headphones and accompanying music to do breathwork too. And then there's wearables like mues that were originally for seated meditation with audio feedback. And now we're going into brain tracking whilst you're asleep. And like the wearables market is just that it's going in all directions at once. Yeah, yeah. It's funny. It's actually don't like any of that stuff. People that they send them to me, but I'm just sort of just like, I don't need another like band to strap on. I keep, don't use the word strap on.

I keep on the strap on the strap on. I've got so many. I have three already. Yeah, being honest, man, I've struggled with pretty much everything that I've tried. I keep my whoop strap on as an activity tracker. But we were talking about this while I was away. It really doesn't feel like anyone's kind of captured

the wearables market in the same way. If you think about the kind of leap that Apple had with the iPhone and just how much of a chasm there was between that device and everything else that's before it. And I don't think we've had that yet with wearables. You've got the Apple Watch, but a perfect example of this, Rory Sutherland's, modern wisdom, regular modern wisdom guest.

He suggested that he thinks if Steve Jobs was still around, the Apple Watch wouldn't be made. He thinks it's too complex, too uninsured, if too highly priced and too user inefficient. And I'd never heard it before, but, too uninsuitive, too highly priced, and too user inefficient. And I'd never heard it before, but I actually thought, yeah, do you know what it is? I buy everything from Apple. Like, they bring something out. I upgrade my laptop, I upgrade my phone fairly regularly. I've never had any desire to buy an Apple watch. And I think he might be right with that. And the idea of wearables is right, but I think the execution thus far pretty much industry

wide is just a bit lacking. Yeah, I agree. I'm not a fan. And I have an Apple Watch, but I'm not like a... Big Roger, yeah. Yeah, I like it. I only wear it whenever I go out or go running or something like that. But I just don't care about data.

I know every teacher on, of course, and for some people, it's very useful. But to me, there was a show of shits Creek on a field of seeing that. It's quite funny. But Dan Levy is going on a hike with his boyfriend. And he's like, my Apple Watch is dead or whatever. And he's like, there's no point in even hiking. It's not like, I'm not getting the track. I'm like, I don't care.

We'll do it again tomorrow. Did you see, it's a one thing that I will say that was a fairly big game changer is, for me knowing how much time I've been asleep, I'm aware that there's a margin of error here, but the waking up on the morning and being able to look and know that I got seven hours of sleep or seven and a half or eight or eight and a half or five,

as opposed to the old world before wearables, which was just going to bed at a time and then waking up at a time and not really knowing. That has definitely informed the way that I operate a lot more effectively and I can compensate for sleep debt and kind of play around with things. But you're right, if you're not drilling into the data, I think a lot of devices, almost all of them put out so much more than you need. And then unless you act on the data that you get from a wearable, like, what's the purpose of it? It's just like this sort of mass, mass debatery game of producing data for the sake of indexing it.

Exactly. Exactly, man. Yeah, it's further distraction. They might be in a lot of cases. Again, for me, but you know, some people are sure it's incredibly useful. I got a lot of people sent me speaking of things like Muse and I think whoop has some similar data just showing your, you know, neural feedback or also your kind of real-time heart rate or whatever change. It's people who have seen me screen shots where they're like, man, this is before, this is a six-month shot here of before I started listening to, you're using your meditation course with your biomebeats and then after,

and look at the difference. It's crazy, what people send them to me. I should actually try and ask if I should put those in my site or something. But they like, it's just like a complete, like, you know, inverse, it's like a total difference. It's really, really cool to see. That's crazy.

I've got Joel Jamison from eight weeks out. He worked with a lot of UFC fighters, getting them down to the right weight. But he's also one of the world's experts in HIV training. That literally probably number one on the planet. I've got him on the show later this month, and I'm going to bring up the binaural beats stuff with him because him affecting people's HIV in a appropriate way is pretty much what he spends his time doing.

And HIV is an indicator of relaxation. Inversely, you want to high HIV and a low resting heart rate optimally. But yeah, that's definitely one of them. And when you think about what most of the recovery strategies for athletes are doing, what they're trying to get them to do is just get into a parasympathetic state. How many? Any how? Is it by massage, is it by going

on a recovery walk in nature, like is it by sleeping more, whatever it might be, just trying to get that HIV up and that resting heart rate down. So yeah, man, I think I tell you what, why don't we, why don't we listen to, it'll be into the void? Oh yeah, is that the sleepwalk? No, that was lunar flow. Oh, well, you mess him up with the names now. Why don't we listen to lunar flow? All right. Okay, and so then now also, I think we're in the same, a good neighborhood, and of course time is shrinking here. So we can move into the void, which that is also another deep delta track as well. So it's kind of a good companion. This is from the first collection

way back when. But I think this is the one I think Aubrey is called the dry float. He's like, it's like being in a float tank, but not in the tank. So this is the end of the void track. Okay, and then coming out of that one, I think just, you know, with a few minutes remaining, touching quickly on some of the research around the stuff is important because, you know, some people are willing to just try a binobete or something and see if it works for them. And I them and I okay cool I like this and it makes me feel a certain way some people are A bit resistant to it because they're like okay, this this you know a little skepticism which I think is healthy Ultimately, I at the end of the day. I say with anything like that, you know Just give it a shot and if it if it works for you then cool if not then then that's cool too

but there there is a lot of research and increasingly so in over the last few years, even they've become very popular and for treating anxiety and different traumas and kind of going through traumas and things like that. But really for treating anxiety and trying to get people out of their, even in a clinical state of dealing with anxiety. So, in one case, particularly that I enjoy that I was actually a part of was a research team in Australia, one of the universities, two, unfortunately, now I can't recall which

one it was because it's been a year or two since I worked with them, but one of the major ones. And so they had a neuroscientist there that was basically playing my tracks and I created some actually test tracks so they could use kind of a control study thing going on. So some of them would be- Did you make a binaural beat that wasn't a binaural beat. Yes. So I made one with just the musical elements and then one with musical elements and the tones.

So they had like a control track going on. So they would put people in there, mainly people that were struggling from psychological issues, your anxiety, or whatever might be. Put them in the FMR eye scanner, which is just kind of a brain wave reading machine. We'll call it that. And they would then monitor kind of how their mind was reacting and how their heart rate was reacting to it.

And they showed you a very clear success through that brain imaging that the track with the tones was affecting, you know, the brain and the way it was supposed to, since creating relaxation, slowing down the brain wave, pattering, patterns in the firing of neurons. So it's very, very fascinating. I think that there are a lot of them in the academic sense have been used for, or I've been getting a lot more traction for use in therapy sessions and stuff like that, and just general overall kind of wellness for people who are suffering psychologically and just kind of getting that recovery in.

That's the, I guess, the acute state change. Have we had a look? Have you had any research to do with the trade change other than people sending you their heart rates, steadily decreasing over a six-month period. Yeah, there have been several studies of selections of people who have been interviewed and taken readings in different data points and so forth on. We're kind of resting levels of stress and anxiety and whatever.

And then use the tracks over a course of time, and then gone, but back and gone for more testing and monitoring and so forth and improvements and reduction. They're all based on anxiety. I think that's freaking the funding for studies like that, improvements on the reductions of their anxiety and their resting hour rates and things like that. So yeah, it's all interesting. Yeah, and I like reading about those things now and not again, but I think

for me, for stuff like that, I'm mainly just kind of like, you know, you could go read a bunch of reports. It's got, I think I feel like that was supplements too, where it's like, you can read all about them where you just take one and see how you feel about it. Yeah. And that again, if you could bottle the placebo effect, you'd have the most powerful effect in all of pharmacology, right? So the point is whatever works for you, works for you, and the mode by that happening kind of is a little bit irrelevant.

So if someone's thinking, that sounds good, Corey, you've sold me on Binaural Beats, mate. What is your suggested dosing? Is it more effective with speakers if they've got good quality speakers or with headphones and how often and etc. Yeah, definitely with headphones, how often you can listen to them and that's up to you, how often you want to try and induce the effect. I listen to them and that's up to you, how often you wanna try and induce the effect. I listen to them during meditation, a lot of them are made for meditation, and it's very valuable and given that they're 30 minutes long,

it's like you don't have to worry about a timer or anything, you just turn it on and you know when the track's done, you're done. And also, I think another valuable time is that, I've had a lot of people reach out to me and say that whenever they're feeling kind of like in a crisis mode of just like really overwhelmed, really stressed with work or relationship or whatever. And they're in that kind of like panicky like that state to drop one on to remember to use them then and drop one on just kind of lay down and take a little 10 minute chill, you know, very useful and times like that as well. So apparently if you're writing a book or working on your PhD then that's very valuable. But yeah. I was listening to Adam Gazzali who's a neuroscientist on the some Harris's podcast the other day, and he has got stage three is going

into stage three FDA approval for brain training games that are made to four single focus, specifically to be used to combat ADD, but these games would actually require a prescription for you together, which I thought I don't understand, like it's just a game, but as with many things, something that can cause a positive change can also cause adverse reactions if not used properly or supervised or blah, blah, blah. But I wonder if down the line we'll see prescriptions written or perhaps at least doctors recommending binaural beats as part of a recovery protocol for someone who's post surgery or PTSD or anxiety, depression, any number of psychological issues. Yeah, a lot of therapists recommend them already for just for people that are kind of dealing with

just mental health challenges, depression, anxiety, as you said, PTSD, things like that. Yeah, to just sort of like, hey, listen to one of these and call them in the morning, you know. I love it, man. I absolutely love it. Look, Corey, it's been awesome to have you on two and a half years, dude. And it was very well worth the wait. Yeah, it's crazy. A time flies when you're in the present. Absolutely. People want to check out your stuff. Where should they go? Corey dash Allen calm.

Let's just see our why dash Allen.com. It's all there. The Bono beats. They're releasing to now. Of course, my podcast, of course, Astral also, go and check it out. Yeah. Yeah. It's all there. Peace, dude. Thank you so much for today. Yeah. Thank you, man. Go ahead and check it out. Yep. Yep, it's all there. Peace, dude. Thank you so much for today. Yeah, thank you, man.

I really appreciate you having me on. you