Modern Wisdom - #351 - Stephen McGinty - The World's Deepest Submarine Rescue

Episode Date: July 29, 2021

Stephen McGinty is an author, journalist and documentary producer. In 1973, two British men, Roger Chapman & Roger Mallinson were 1500ft below the surface laying trans-Atlantic telephone cables in the Pisces III submarine. What happened next is one of the longest, most dangerous, complex and daring rescues ever attempted as America, Canada, Ireland and Britain marshalled their forces in the air and beneath the sea to save the two men, all while their oxygen, food and power was rapidly running out. Sponsors: Get £70+ of free upgrades on amazing design work from 99designs by Vistaprint at https://99designs.com/modernwisdom (discount automatically applied) Get a Free Sample Pack of all LMNT Flavours at https://www.drinklmnt.com/modernwisdom (discount automatically applied) Extra Stuff: Buy The Dive - https://amzn.to/3wUBnIt Get my free Ultimate Life Hacks List to 10x your daily productivity → https://chriswillx.com/lifehacks/ To support me on Patreon (thank you): https://www.patreon.com/modernwisdom - Get in touch. Join the discussion with me and other like minded listeners in the episode comments on the MW YouTube Channel or message me... Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chriswillx Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/chriswillx YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/ModernWisdomPodcast Email: https://www.chriswillx.com/contact Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, welcome back to this show. My guest today is Stephen McGinty, he's an author, journalist and documentary producer. We are talking about the world's deepest submarine rescue. In 1973, two British men, Roger Chapman and Roger Mallinson, were 1500 feet below the surface, laying transatlantic telephone cables in the Pisces III submarine. What happened next is one of the longest, most dangerous, complex, and daring rescues ever attempted as America, Canada, Ireland, and Britain, martialed their forces in the air

and beneath the sea to save the two men, all while their oxygen, food, and power was rapidly running out. This story is so cool. Steven's done like an insane amount of research for it. And to be honest, I really enjoy changing up the content that we put out and the sort of stories and guests that come on modern wisdom. It's great, you know, learning personal development and getting new skills and finding hacks and stuff about life. But I just enjoy learning and reminiscing and finding out about crazy experiences that other people have had.

You know, you don't need to, there's no pressure to remember the things. No one's going to quiz you. It's not going to make a difference to your life whether or not you can recall the names of the men and where their position was off the coast of Ireland. But it's just an awesome story that you can relax to and Stephen has like the most perfect Scottish accent for telling a naval submarine rescue story that I've ever heard. So, yeah, enjoy this one, sit back and relax. On a similar note, I wanted to say thank you to everyone who continues to support the show and share the episodes and gas me up or send me messages or retweet stuff that I've posted on Twitter.

Like, it is so meaningful. It's insane how sensible and radically curious everyone that listens to this is. And it just continues to blow me away. Like the show's growing so much faster than I could have thought every single time that we set targets, we blast through them. So thank you, thank you for whatever it is that you're doing to help support it.

Something's going right. And long may it continue. But now it's time to learn about the world's deepest submarine rescue with Stephen McGinty, welcome to the show. Thanks for having me. We are talking about the world's deepest submarine rescue today. Yes indeed, yes indeed. It's the subject of my new book, The Dive, which is the untold story of the world's deepest submarine rescue.

And yeah, it's an incredible story from the analog age of 1973. Yeah, I mean, the background to it is effectively that it's just to get people in the mood. It's really from the time when in 1973 when new phone lines were laid down and there was what's known as the cantat cable was laid between Canada and the United Kingdom and this was this was high technology. You know this was a cable that allowed 1,750 phone calls to be made from the entirety of America and Canada to the UK at any one time. So this was the days when it would be like £3.50 a minute to make a phone call, Transatlantic.

But this was the cable that in fact this new cable was three times what previous cables had done. And what was happening at the time was that the cable had been laid, but these miniature submarines, this Pisces 3, was being sent down to do a simple, very important job, which was to find the cable and to dig a little ditch, so that the cable would then settle into the ditch and then be covered over by sand and silt. The idea of being that while it was on the surface, I mean this was 150 miles off the coast of Corks or it was in the Atlantic Ocean, but it was still in an area where people were fishing and the fear was that nets would go down or trawlers and effectively the cable could be hauled back up. And as I said, the Murphy's Law does apply within

150 miles of Ireland and the fear was that they obviously needed to tackle that. So on the day back in August 1973 there was two men in this small Tiesies 3 mini-subversible. There was Roger Chapman and there was Roger Malonson. Roger Chapman was ex Royal Navy. He was an ex- nuclear submariner who had effectively had to leave the services because his eyesight wasn't as good as it should have been and he moved into the into the private sector and at the time what was interesting about it was it was the company that ran the submarines was with Dikker's oceanics and the

Vickers is anyone from Barron, Thurness, and anyone who knows about the great kind of nautical history of Britain, well no. Vickers was the titan of shipbuilders, and particularly military and naval ships from the First World War, Second World War, and into the Cold War. So what they did was that they would obviously make any massive ships, but they decided that it was 1973, there had been the boom in the North Sea oil industry, and they decided miniature submarines were going to be an effect of gadget effectively that industry would have been needed. And this little miniature submarine had been invented by these incredible

Canadians. There was a guy called Alf Trice, and Alf Trice back in the 19th, early 1960s was the first from Vancouver, and he was one of the pioneers of, he was a great salvage diver, those were the days where you wore hard hats, you went down with heavy steel boots, and he pioneered some of the deepest dives, I mean they were doing bounce dives in those days, so that basically meant that you would go down as many as deep as 350 feet, but you could be down there for literally two or three minutes and then you would take these long slow ascents to the surface to avoid the bends. I'll try and say look, this isn't, there has to be a practical device, there has to be a let's let's develop a submarine that

is small, that's commercial. The French had developed the Bathascope, which had gone down right down to the Canamaran Aratrange effectively, but he wanted to develop effectively a commercial submarine. And these guys who could come into the story later on, effectively what they developed, they spent money, they'd pay a year, then free to the Pisces craft. i'w i'r ffyd yw'r ffyd yw'r ffyd yw'r ffyd yw'r ffyd yw'r ffyd yw'r ffyd yw'r ffyd yw'r ffyd yw'r ffyd yw'r ffyd yw'r ffyd yw'r ffyd yw'r ffyd yw'r ffyd yw'r ffyd yw'r ffyd yw'r ffyd yw'r ffyd yw'r ffyd yw'r ffyd yw'r ffyd yw'r ffyd yw'r ffyd yw'r ffyd yw'r ffyd yw'r ffyd yw'r ffyd yw'r ffyd yw'r ffyd yw'r ffyd yw'r ffyd yw'r ffyd yw'r ffyd yw'r ffyd yw'r ffyd yw'r ffyd yw'r ffyd yw'r ffyd yw'r ffyd yw'r ffyd yw'r ffyd yw'r ffyd yw'r ffyd yw'r ffyd yw'r ffyd yw'r ffyd yw'r ffyd yw'r ffyd yw'r ffyd yw'r ffyd yw'r ffyd yw'r ffyd yw'r ffyd yw'r fyd yw'r ffyd yw'r ffyd yw'r ffyd yw'r ffyd yw'r ffyd yw' ffyd yw'r fyd yw'r ffyd yw'f crisis graph was that it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it might, it, when I've told people about this book was, if it's literally trying to imagine that you are a junior friend or in a large phone box, that's the way to think of it. And the way that I've consulted to people was, imagine that you're in a small phone box

and the phone box is sitting slap-bang next to the Empire State Building and then you watch as the Atlantic Ocean rolls in to a height 10 stories above the top of the Empire State Building. So that's the kind of, I mean the size of it was pretty compact, so a 5 or 6 feet in diameter, but you know enough to move around and you know you got pretty close. But you know enough to move around and but you know you got you got you got pretty close All right, so set the scene. We're on the day of this Occurring what what's Roger and Roger doing and why well how do they get down there? Well, what it is the so on the surface was at the the kind of the mothership, which is effectively converted a large converted troller called and the thicker Voyager

So that was on the surface, and that was operating 24 hours a day. The pyssies submarine was on deck, and they ran about at one o'clock in the morning. They climbed into the submarine. It was winched over the edge. It was then dropped into the water, then it was towed out to a certain point.

And what was interesting at the time was that what they would do is they would attach, like a boy to the surface, and then they would attach a rope to the submarine, and then the submarine would descend right down to the bottom, so 15, 1600 feet to the bottom. And then they would, on the surface, they would follow this boy as it went along so that was if you think about jaws that's affected what was like when it would defy that that the barrels into the into the great white that's affected what they were doing with the submarine and so they go down to the bottom they spend eight or nine hours on the on the bottom digging this little trench and watching the cable drop in.

And they had a tape recorded down there and Roger when he was down the Roger Malinson liked to listen to. Now this was 1973 so this was the year of Pink Floyd, Dark Side of the Moon, who was all such a great album release in 1973. Roger Malinson liked, like to listen to Mozart and Bach's organ music. He always insisted that the sound, because of the sphere, the sound inside the submarine was fantastic. And that's what he used to listen to. He was an eccentric character, Roger, a great man. So the two of them were down there, and then after about eight or nine hours, the rows to the surface. And then what happened was a big fluke. They get to the surface and then the team that come out on a little craft and they begin to toe it back in. What happens is a rope is that it's used to toe them. It knots over the back of the submarine and the rope knots round a bolt on the aphosphere,

which is the back of the submarine. And unfortunately that's not covered and the bolt is tightened and the pressure inside the aphosphere basically flips open. So suddenly they're on the surface and the aphosphere, which is inside the, the atmosphere, it basically flips open. So, suddenly, they're on the surface and the, the after sphere, which is the back of the submarine, but which is not connected, although it's, although it's part of the submarine, there's no, it's solid effectively between that and the actual compartment where the main are, but what happens is a ton of water suddenly floods into the back of the atmosphere. So the submarine is incredibly

overweight and immediately begins to tip butthrust and begins to sink down. Now the key point here is that before this happened they disconnected the boy so that the boy that told them where the submarine was had been disconnected. The position mark is no longer there. Exactly, exactly. So the submarine, first of all, it drops to 160 feet, which is where the end of the tour rope is. So the tour rope catches it, but you know there's no way the tour rope can withstand a weight. So Roger and Alanson and Roger Chapman are

desperately trying to drop a heavy weight. This attacks the submarine to try and lighten the load to buy themselves a bit more time. Let's talk of a diver trying to get down to attach a rope to it. But then what happens is just as the man has to get his weight off, there's a massive crack and the weight drops, but also the rope snaps,

and suddenly the plummeting right down to the bottom. Roger talked about how the water been driving through the engines, and we're saying like a sticker die bomber, so at the plummeting down, Roger, they're trying to sort of get everything out the way because they know they're going to crash land on the bottom. Roger tells them to start, Roger Malonson remembers that it's just in case they bite a tongue off with the impact, they stuff rags in their mouth and then they finally hit the bottom. What sort of speeds are they going when they do that? Well, it's about, I mean, there's a question, it was, initially they thought it would be like,

so if you know, 20, 30 miles an hour, but I'm not sure if it was as fast as that. But certainly enough that they were fearful that it could crack open. But what happens is they smashed down onto the bottom and suddenly they're in pitch darkness and initially they were waiting thinking. So the new they were on the bottom, the new they were deeper than any other subrenon they'd been rescued. And the first thing they were fearful of was A was the cracks in the submarine. So the check there's no cracks in the submarine. The next thing they're fearful of is that although they have oxygen supply down there, the key problem in a submarine is effectively not the oxygen you're breathing in,

but the carbon dioxide that you're breathing out. So they know that they have a scrubber, which is effectively like a little electric motor, which scrubs out the oxygen, it sucks out the oxygen in, scrubs it, takes out the carbon dioxide, and then they bleed in oxygen back into the chamber so it maintains a safe atmosphere effectively. But they can only do that if the batteries are working. And also they're fearful that if there's a problem with one of the fuses or with the cables on the battery that it could ignite, and obviously there have been the fire on board and one of the Apollo missions, just a few years previous time, but that's a major concern that they could trigger a fire.

They could have one of the wires could have been broken during the fall or something like that. Exactly, exactly. And they could trigger a fire and then, you know, they're going. Won't they own the small distance from some huge ledge in the sea floor that would have dropped them down to some insane depth? Well, that was the considered. They thought they were, maybe within a half a mile or a mile of that, but they didn't know how far they drifted because that was the key point was that

there was a kind of the current was quite strong and they were drifting as they fell. So yeah, the concern was when they were falling, they were looking at the debt go up 100, 200, 300, 400, 500 and they didn't know that they knew that they were at 1700 feet when they were operating and they thought had they gone deeper than that then they would have been and I think they would have dropped down to about 3000 feet. But one break that didn't happen but they realized what's happening. They're at 1650 feet. The way I described it was trying to imagine that you're in a phone box next to the Empire State Building and then the Atlantic Ocean sweeps in, then all

the lights go out, then you start bleeding oxygen, then you know that rescue is at least two days away and what you've got to do is preserve your oxygen as long as you can. Why did they know that it's at least two days away and what you've got to do is preserve your oxygen as long as you can. Why did I know that it's at least two days away? Because this is the problem and this is what makes the rescue such an incredible feat. Above them is Vickers Voyager and the only way that they can be rescued is for a diver can't get down to that depth. So the only way is for another submarine to get down to that depth and attach a rescue rope. Now the submarines that are capable of doing that

is Pisces 2 which is in the North Sea, Pisces 5 which is in Canada and also the curve which is run by the US Navy which is remote controlled. controlled Ministers submarine which had been used a number of years before and maybe four or five years before to pick up an A-bomb which would be a plane crash above Spain one of these bombs had dropped off the Spanish coast and it was a curve that had been sent down to finally find the submarine that was not so far I mean, find the bomb and bring it to the surface. So as they are sitting there, they know that the only thing

that can rescue them is a submarine, which is either the North Sea, Canada, or the United States. And that the submarine, so the safety vessel above them, the Vickers Voyager, that has to leave them, go back to Cork to pick up these teams. But effectively what happens is they're on the seabed and then a massive international rescue is put into operation. Vickers Oceanic at the time was one of the general managers there was Peter McCervoray,

he was ex Navy and he himself had been stuck in the submarine 600 or so 600 feet down in Vancouver during a test a few years before so he knew exactly what they were going through And at the time what they did was they put in a kind of a rescue operation Which was built and braces and then belts again? So? They got the submarines from the North Sea, they got that on another vessel and they started steaming back into port. They contacted the Canadians and said, we're going to have to get you guys over. And what was great was that Al Trice, who devised an invented effect of the Pisces submarine, he was actually in London at the time. So he was able to take part in the rescue as well, but the Canadians were contacted and they basically swung into

action, they loaded everything up onto trucks and contacted the Canadian Air Force and the Canadian Air Force said, look, don't worry about the fake paperwork, we've got a Hercules aircraft ready for you and just whenever you can get to the airport, we'll have this Hercules ready. Didn't what isn't it a subsmash or something? Wasn't there like some huge red button that somebody pressed that marshals the entire world's forces to try and help? Yeah, yeah, that was there. They're all Navy that can subsmash, which is, it was just basically,

there's a submarine in trouble and all help is available. But effectively what was interesting was it was the Fickers, Canadians and the Americans and the Americans were all based in San Diego. So they did the same thing, they rushed to the raid, loaded up two Hercules aircrafts. And within, I think it was within 10, 12 hours. You've got these here, these here can be aircraft one flying from San Diego, one flying from Canada and the other team arriving in from into Cork. So then what you have is, Vickers, the venture on the surface has to leave them. Another fishing vessel comes and stays on the point

because the point is they don't know, as I've said in the book, they know roughly where they are. I they know there's a haystack, they just don't know where the needle is. So the vessel has left that boy, they've left that located boy, yeah, yeah. So they head to back to cork and that's affected the voyage,

was laden with it with the two submarines. So back down in the submarine, what do the Rogers do now? They land there and then they decide to test the batteries and what are the resources they need to balance? What do they do now? Yeah, well, the fact of what they do is they know that the scrubbers operating so that they know that they can take the carbon, um, so the carbon dioxide out there out the atmosphere and um, they replace it with kind of oxygen.

So that's okay, um, we've got to keep the batteries going and they know that initially the way it was operated was the oxygen they had down there. If they were acting normally chatting, moving about that would probably last 30-35 hours. But the estimate was that if they just lay down, remained as silent as possible, remained as calm as possible, they could extend that to about 65-70 hours, which was the kind of roughly when the operation to hold, I mean, if they could get there, they figured they could get there within maybe 50 hours. So it was incredibly stressful and incredibly tense. In a time when they need to specifically be as calm as possible, low heart rate, low breathing rate. Absolutely. And Roger Malin said that if he had to be stuck in a submarine with anyone, he was so glad it was Roger Chapman because Roger Chapman was eggs Navy.

And both of them were terrified, but both of them had that stiff British upper lip, which is terrified, but I'm fine, I'm absolutely fine, and I'm going to operate as if I'm fine. So they were terrorizing it? Yeah, yeah. They moved the entire sort of, they fungu-sh functioned the whole internal compartment around so that they only needed to move a tiny amount to check on the few different bits and pieces. Yeah, the move, what they could affect, because of the way the way the submarine had landed, which was going to pop flurced into the sand, they had to move their benches around and then they

reconfigured it effectively so that they could fit, they moved the minimum amount as possible so that it was just as easy as possible for them. How were they communicating with the surface? Well, there's an underwater telephone which is effectively what they used and what was interesting about it was, I mean, it was very static and very kind of, you could hear but what was fascinating was that there was a lot of port poises and dolphins in the area and the dolphins would squeak and they would, as Roger Malin said, you would lose messages to the dolphins

because they would be making this kind of noise and he didn't mind it so much because he loved the dolphins but that was another element of it, but they could, they could, yeah, it was effectively like an underwater radio, that was, it was operating. So they had a timer thing, right? They were doing something every laugh and hour, tell us about that. Yeah, exactly. Well, effectively, what they had, what the, the best practice was effectively to operate the scrubber every 30 minutes, so that it would take out the kind of carbon dioxide from the atmosphere.

But what they did was, and they had a time to do that, so that they would either, if they fell asleep, or they would always do it, the time would go off. But, basically, what they did was, in order to maintain the scrubber, so that the chemicals that could only replace a certain amount of time, in order to extend that, they started pushing it further and further. So in ideal situations, if we do it a half an hour, then sometimes they would go an hour, 19 minutes without doing it in order to maintain the resources as long as possible. What were the effects of being done there? Because I imagine cold condensation. Cold condensation? Well, the food supplies were very limited.

They had like one sandwich. They had a tin of corona lemonade. They had a half a glass of coffee. They had some ships and biscuits. And that was it. What about water? No water. No water.

Which is incredible. But the idea, so what they started doing was that the condensation that built up on the edge of the submarine, they would run their hands down that, and they would kind of dab their lips that way. So it was, it was, it was a tough environment. Half a canister of coffee, was it like a cheese and plowman sandwich or something? Yeah, yeah, because it's malnison and jam sandwiches which you'd eat. And then a, a tin of lemonade. Yeah, and some condensation. Yeah, yeah, and that's, I mean and that's what you've got for three days.

How long? I mean, three days must be close to the hydration limit for humans. Yeah, I mean, it was something that they were... Yeah, it was kind of tough for them, but it might be what they could from the walls of the submarine. Okay, so we've got them down there. They're trying to stay still as they can every half an hour to every hour, they're waking up to play around with the oxygen,

leak the oxygen back in, also scrub the CO2 out. What's happening on the surface? Well, on the surface, the first thing is, Voyager finally gets another ship to set, maintain position on the surface. Then Voyager sales 13, 14 hours back to cork. By that time, the Pisces, somebody that was in the North Sea,

has been brought over to cork. They wait for the Pisces from Canada to arrive by Hercules. They unload that, they get that onto the Voyager. And then what's interesting, two things are interesting, all trice is delayed and getting over to cork. So the captain of Voyager said, we're not waiting for him, so they stay off. And then what happens is trice has to be helicoptered out into the Atlantic, and then lowered down onto the, onto Voyager. There's no helipad on Voyager. There's no helipad on Voyager, but they're lower down.

But also what's happening is when I found the logs from Vickers Voyagers, actually from the Vickers company, there's a lovely line where it says something like, 1230, I'll try and drop to full stop onto Voyager. Brackets gently feel so... Because I gave the indication that they just dropped them on, but it was just as the brackets gently. Again, that's the beauty of when you're writing a book. You find these little pieces of paperwork and it gives you an indication of it.

So what happened then was that the Americans were delayed. So the Americans, because they were obviously flying from the West Coast, they were delayed. So they get in to cork about 10 hours later and they have to wait because of the tidal effect, their ship is put onto another ship and effectively they are 10 hours behind Fick of Voyager. So Voyager gets back to the scene of the accident on the late and the early hours of Friday morning. So, they are there for 40 hours later, they are on the scene. And then effectively, there's a great line which says, how do you make God laugh? And it's telling your plans.

Because what happened was, Miss Everett had an idea that they would get to the point, they would send down one of the PiscesI submarines and they would hook them up, get them to the surface and they would be up by breakfast. So first thing goes wrong is they try and get these inflatable crafts, inflatable kind of boats, they would take them out to the roughly the site where they think that the boy that's certainly sinks. But the first engine doesn't work, the second engine doesn't work. Eventually they have to get another engine sent over from one of the naval vessels, and that's just to tool out the Pisces crack. Now they make a decision, they're going down with a rope bound onto a kind of like a clamp, like a claw effectively

at the front of the Pisces, and they make a decision that they want the rope to be of a certain buoyancy. The idea of being that it would float up above them and would be less likely to become entangled. The problem is that submarine goes down and it's piloted by Gregor Deis Darcy, that submarine goes down and it's piloted by Greg, I've got this, Darcy, and it goes down, down, down. The problem is the deeper it goes, the greater the buoyancy on the rope, and effectively what happens is to get down to about 1,300 feet, and the buoyancy of the rope, the tension on that starts pulling on the claw, and effectively the rope hit about 1,400 feet, and then it gives. So not only does the rope and with the hook pull out of the claw, but it mangles the claw. So there in a position where they no longer have a rope and they no longer have a working claw on this submarine. The decisions made to send down a submarine anyway in an attempt to try and find a Pisces, but few hours, A, they can't find it.

And no, then that's the other thing. At some point that that biases, that submarine springs a leak, or there's a tension on board. So they have to go back up to the surface. So that's the first dive, which was deemed to be, that you would be very successful,

but that doesn't work. So then they bring on board the Canadians. So I'll try and his team and another biasesces suffering there, towed out and dive to goes down to the bottom. The problem is it gets down to the bottom and it's there for eight hours and it can't find Pisces 3. How are they doing that just simply by sight? No, by sonar effectively. So what happens is they've got the a sonar down there and they're kind of trying

to scan, they're twisting around and they're scanning, trying to find it. And at one point they get a ping, but what effectively is is when they look at the scale of it, they realize that they're one mile away. So under the water, in that distance with that kind of parameter, it's difficult. If you were maybe 5, 6, 700 feet away, it would still be tough to find it to get it to the

point where you could actually illuminate it. So they're down there for eight hours. No luck. They go back to the surface. At this point, the claws being worked on and the other subring, we go back down again. And what you do is, they get Roger Chapman to sing. At one point Chapman singing this made up song in the hope that they can hear them. The adubes, the higher notes might help. So Chapman singing away and they get the team in the Canadians submarine are desperately trying to fight the right spot. And eventually what is a combination of both Malinston and Chapman, hearing a directional change on their underwater telephone. So there's a combination of them thinking they've made some kind of change on the Canadians ship and the Canadians thinking right we've locked on to them.

Can they communicate with the Canadians? Yeah, well this is a thing they can at some point and because at one point Chapman Mallinson keeps talking and the Canadians at one point saying quiet please quiet please and Mallinson starts getting pissed off part of the language because of this is what's happened. And the other thing that annoys the Chapman and Malin's is that the Canadians are talking about meters and these guys are saying, well, you know, we're dealing in feet here, we have to do,

we have to do in feet. So it's like the old world and the new world, kind of clashing. So eventually at one point, they finally realize the loc on to where they think they are. And Malanson is looking up at the portal, which is almost like a skylight at that point because the way the submarine is facing. And what they're looking for is they're looking out into just a wash of blackness. But what they're waiting for is for light to come, because the idea of being that the other

submarine has lights on it. And if they basically, if the blackness out there starts to illuminate, then they know they're going to be found. So eventually what happens is they see light in the water and they realize that Pisces 5 that the Canadians have found them and they think fantastic. So what happens is The Canadians position their submarine really close to Pisces and what they're trying to do is they've got a Device that they're trying to sort of hook on to onto the top of the rope. So the top of the submarine and their position it with their hook and

It is a discrediting book is a fed of like threading a needle wearing a suit of armor, but they've done it before. They're good at it. This is what they do, but what happens is they put the hook into the eye at the top of Piusi's three and they think they've locked on. So for a second effect really, they've got this rope with the lifting strength to get them up and it's locked on. But then again, a one in a thousand misfortune, it just falls out, it's spin round effectively and drops out of sight. So there's a situation where they have to spin round the submarine, which bangs pies these three and they're trying to chase this rope They have to spin around the submarine, which bangs pies these three, and they're trying to chase this rope as it drifts away.

And as I've said, it's like a pensioners race because the rope is just drifting very slowly or can balloon caught in a breeze, but they can only move very slowly and they're desperate trying to catch it before it goes away. Because if it drifts out of arm reach effectively, they miss it. They're going to have to go back to the surface, which is a few hours, find it, retool, get back down again. The bottom line is they get down, but the problem is they can't get it back onto the lift point. The only thing you can do is fit it onto a grill, which is over one of the propellers, which E allows them to know exactly where the somebody is, but won't support the weight. Oh, so they would use that as kind of like a minor tour's maze.

Yeah. Wait, follow it down. It might not have the boy attached to the top, but all that you would do in future is now send a submarine, okay, just track with this inside down, down, down, down, down, down, okay. Quite a problem, but the major problem is it doesn't, it wouldn't support the wheat of the submarine so they can't left. What about the Roger and Roger at the moment

Are they not needed to go to the bathroom if they not Like yeah, yeah, yeah, no choice. I mean, it's not it's not pretty button the book we have to describe how How they have to go to the toilet which is effectively just you know, I mean Without putting too fine a point about it is defecating in a plastic bag and then putting the put the bag inside I can have a is defecating in a plastic bag and then putting the bag inside a sealed metal biscuit tin. Didn't one of the lads have the runs as well? Hasn't he had a bad pie or something? Yeah, well that was it. He'd been constipated for a while and it just could hold on no longer.

But as he said afterwards, the relief afterwards was overwhelming. So that's where they are, the Canadians have found them, but the Canadians eventually have to go back up. How many hours in are we here? Oh, we're about 50 hours, 55, you know, I mean, they're getting very close to the wire. So then what happens is there's a third trip down to try and get another row point, doesn't work.

Is that another Pisces that time? That's another Pisces trip down. Basically, what happens is by the Friday night, and they know that by Saturday lunchtime, they're out of oxygen, by Friday night, they still don't have a working list line on. And then, what's, there's this great, as you can see, whereby you've got people like Ted Carter. Ted Carter is in Barrow and Furness. Ted Carter is a kind of, you know, assistant technical manager, and he's communicating with Voyager on the, on the radio. And he realizes that they are, despondent,

that they are exhausted, and that the rescue is not happening the way it should be. So he decides that they should send out another team of kind of fresh men, and he speaks to Leonard Redshaw. Leonard Redshaw was known as Mr. Polaris because he effectively worked with the Navy to design the Polaris subordinate. He was a real, he was the Britain shipbuilder effectively and he was in charge of the curse. And his idea was we throw everything at this kind of rescue mission. So he spoke

to Leonard Redshaw and Redshaw said, yeah, great, put together a team. So what happened is you've got this kind of like dirty dozen mission whereby, sorry, Ted puts together a team of kind of men, give an engineer's divers, five of them, They are flown in the sub-small private plane that the vikers have over to Cork. The Royal Navy have got permission to fly into a virus here. Space now has been very supportive of it. They touch down at Cork here,

they run across the tarmac and they're loaded on to a seeking helicopter. Problem is the helicopter's going to fly 150 miles out and there's a storm. So the weather's a trotious. None of these guys have been on a helicopter before. So what happens is the fly out in the storm and one of the guys I was speaking to about it, when they looked out, all they could see was white, they thought it was snow, but it was the tops of the waves, just being whipped up by the weather. They they are, it can have a night and at night, they're lured down in the midst of this storm onto the deck of Voyager,

which is crashing about. And what happens is they've got lured down one at a time, but every time they're about to touch the deck, the voyage sinks into a wave. So they think they're about to touch the ground, but the ground just falls underneath them. And it's just this kind of amazing piece of piloting. In fact, the pilot had to go and touch with me after the book came out.

And he was commended and, you know, it's for the piloting that was involved in that, and keeping it steady and lowering these men down. So Ted gets down there with his team on the Friday evening, and he helps fix one of the submarines and he goes down with Des Darcy on the kind of air hours of Saturday morning and it's Ted effectively who this guy who wasn't in barren for this sort of you know 12 hours before who helps get the first actual lift line, they developed a toggle which is effectively like an upside down umbrella and now this would be fitted into the atmosphere and like a tea bar it would open out once it was in

and they managed to get the first one in. But at the same time the Americans had got out there, finally. And what again, how do you make God laugh to you on your plans, the idea was that they would launch first, that they had this high technology for 1973, remote controlled submarine effectively that was like a dog in a leash, a well-trained dog in a leash, that could be sent down to the CCTV cameras, fixed on it. That was supposed to launch about 11 at night on the Friday night. Just as they're about to power it up, it's a massive power grid for it. What you didn't appreciate was when did they wiring all up on the journey out. Saltwater and sea spray had contaminated all the circuits. As soon as they the circuits. So as soon as they pressed

it up, as soon as they effectively they powered up the whole thing just blue. So again, there's, you know, submarines aren't working on, on Voyager. The Americans are supposed to come and rescue everyone buying the blue and it was going to take four hours to rewire the entire system with everyone working at once. And again, it's that kind of system whereby because they had so many resources out there and they granted every system had its own problems, what happened was Ted goes down in Pisces, gets that lift line attached, but they realize that they need another lift line. One thing, not going to be enough. One, it could potentially be enough, but it's too

heavy to risk it, they want to get another one. Because if they drop it a second time. Yeah, that's it. They've literally got one chance with the lift. So what they do is the Americans are finally gotten on about four, five in the morning. And what's fantastic is, after everything that's gone wrong with every other attempt, the Americans goes absolutely like silk, he goes like clockwork.

The curve is piloted down by Larry Brady, who sadly just died a couple of weeks ago, but he pilots it, brings it down and drops off the another toggle into the atmosphere. And as he described it to me, he said it was like it was like parking the car after a very, very long drive. I drive effectively three days, but it just goes that smoothly. So by 10 o'clock in the morning, with the estimate, they've got a few hours of oxygen left, but potentially less. No one's got, it has an absolute accurate count of how much oxygen's left. They're in the position where they're going to lift. What are Roger, like at this stage,

what sort of physiological state are they in? Well, they're exhausted, they're stressed, they're imagining the worst. Malinzen is a... Both are amazing guys, but in a Malinzen, it really knows the submarine, and he's constantly overthinking what they should be doing and trying to second-guess it,

and Chapman's the one who's trying to sort of, you know, calm him down and just say, look, Chapman's attitude is that there's nothing we can do here, but effectively try and be silent and breathe as little as possible, whereas Malonson is effective, trying to second-guess and make suggestions about what he can do and really try and work out it.

So when it becomes to time to lift the submarine, they are both internalising it, but as they admit it after was terrified, because in their heads they can't quite grasp what the toggle is, they think it's a hook, and they're constantly worried that like a fish on a hook, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the later on, the worst part of the entire experience was the lift, was those final two hours. Because what happened was that it was being lifted from a different ship this time. They transferred over to a larger vessel that was going to sort of, I thought that was actually operating where curved the Americans that have been operated from. And what they did was they kind of moved over to the the the

John Cabo that was it was the Canadian Coast Guard it was an icebreaker that they were moving off from that they were decided to operate the lift from and what happened was that because of the stormy weather this icebreaker was constantly been forced up and down 20-30 feet because of the waves. So if you imagine you're fishing and you've got a fish at the end of the hook, but that fish is a submarine, it's constantly going up and down and it's pivoting as it goes up. So it was like a really violent roller coaster for them and they're terrified because every motion of the submarine they're smashing about inside

but they also think that the hooks are going to come off and they are going to plummet down to the bottom. Also communications breaking up so at one point they are shouting for them to stop the lift, they can't get it to stop. The other guys think they want to continue, there is a lot of confusion. And then they stop at one point when the curve which is the kind of American system that submarine has wrapped around at one point the Pisces so that they're lifting both at once. It all gets very confusing and very kind of stressful but at one point they stop and that's because they get about

120 feet from the surface and necessarily the sides've got to get another line on there. Once it gets the surface, it's going to get heavier. So there's a great situation where they send down the divers to try and attach another rope to it. And it's Bob, I don't know who was it, Bob Hanley. Bob Hanley is sent down as a diver with one of his colleagues with a hook and the idea is, is he described it, is trying to land in a bucking bronco so the submarine itself is thrashing about moving up and down and he's

got to time his dive so that he can land on it and effectively straddle it like you would a bucking bronco while it's moving up and down with the waves at the top and he's holding the rope with this kind of hook that he's trying to wage. In fact, that's not it. What it is, it's a really thick rope attached to a U curve with a bolt attached to it and the bolts attached to a string and what he has to do is he has to get the the u-band of the metal stuff, stanching effectively under the top of the submarine, then he has to screw in a bolt like a carabiner to close off the opening. Yeah, exactly, exactly. And all while underwater at 120 feet on a submarine that's thrashing about.

And it's an incredibly tense moment, but he manages to get it on and they effectively send out another rope and so we're in a position where there's all these three ropes cooling up. And finally, they make it to the surface with, yeah, a very tense moment. Okay, so they get to the surface and then there's still complications then, right?

Like getting the hatch open and... Yeah, yeah, Malice always remembers that they were... They were bleeding more oxygen. Or didn't they... When did they... The sandwich? Well, good question. I think they had it at some point.

But they certainly... They celebrated with... They cracked open the corona lemonade as soon as they were found were found that was their deal is that they wouldn't open the lemonade until they were found to the cracked open the lemonade then and as Ma'amson said remember because of having to be going on it can taste like shit you know but you know shit never tasted too sweet and given that given the conditions they were in but when they got to the surface, they were, Monson remembers it very very heavily, they couldn't get the actual hatch open. So he was kind of

kicking it and lying in the bottom and kicking the surface of the hatch. Even though they're at the surface, this doesn't give them any more oxygen or any more CO2 scrubbing, right? You could be sealed in on the top of Everest and it would be precisely the same as being at the bottom of the ocean. Exactly, exactly. They've got to get that hatch open to get fresh here in. Finally, bang, they can have hatches open. And as there's a lovely moment where effectively,

they said that the first argument of the whole time they were down there, what was then with the hatch was open. Malonson was the pilot and Malonson's argument was that he should be the last person out because he's pilot, he's responsible for the craft. Chapman is much wiser because they're in a storm. The waves are thrashing him out and his Chapman says to Malonson, says to Roger, Roger, you can't swim.

So that was his argument, the heat that Malonson should be the first person out of the submarine on the grounds that if water floods in at least Chapman can swim, because maln's never never been to swim. So eventually they finally get them out. And what's very touching is that when I was just reading the book to people and I was writing about what they'd been received by this idea of the brotherhood of the sea, all these other vessels had come to the raid, men had come from Canada, from California, from the North Sea, from Ireland, everyone had pulled together. And for this, a three day period, the kind of world was waiting, you know, with Bated

Breath to find out could these men be rescued? It was akin to the situation a couple of years back with the school party trapped in the cave and it kind of like Thailand it was where you were waiting to see could they be rescued and they were rescued. But for the men on board who toiled for so long on Vikas Voyager, they were on the edge of the ship looking out and when they saw the surf that they sort of hit the surface and finally see these guys climb out, you know, they were just pushed into tears and these were men who'd never, you know, as I said, their eyes would be parched for decades, you know, they just didn't cry about anything, but it was just the overwhelming emotion of willing

something to happen and for so many things to go wrong, they finally got them to the surface and that's it. And that was part of the reason why I wanted to write the book was obviously there was the experience of the main on board, but it was also to capture all these characters who have been, who have been dentroed and lost to history, you know, like kind of altrice like Ted Carter, Bob Hanley, all these people, you guys who devised the toggles, and when you speak to Ted Carter today, he's very busy about it, he just said he helps, you know, but they did remarkable things, Larry Brady and in California. So that was it, it was everyone pulled together to pull off this incredible rescue. And when you consider everything that had gone wrong, even to the point where at one point they needed new rope and the navy who were out there ferried rope across

and a kind of wired basket effectively underneath a helicopter, but the mischievous the weight of the rope. So as soon as the helicopter took off and started flying towards Voyager, they could see the helicopter immediately start being dragged down to the sea. So they suddenly, the helicopter pilot did pilot, to get us in the rope. And suddenly the rope was tumbling down and Al Trice is on the deck of voyage. I would Peter and Miss Erwin, looking out at the rope that we're supposed to get. And suddenly the rope was just bobbing across the surface of the Atlantic. And Al Trice had a motto that he used to use to say and his attitude was, well, if it was easy, everyone would do it. And this was a rescue that was far from easy.

How close to the why was it with resources and oxygen and that stuff? Well, it's complicated because afterwards, if you see, there's a little footage of them on YouTube talking about when they finally touched down on the court. And they're very stiff up or lit. British, everything's fine. All we've planned to have resources. It was very comfortable at one point they say on this on on the bottom. It was very comfortable and the report was that they could have gone for a number of hours afterwards. However, the people I spoke to who had first had experience of it, one of them

said that it was his job to to inspect the submarine when it was finally brought back to Cork. And he went into the submarine with the kind of US authority, his job as to monitor safety for submarines. And they said he remembers two things very vividly. One was the stench of the place, the stench of the submarine. And the second thing was that when they turned on the oxygen, just nothing came out. His attitude was that they were just absolutely down to the wire. Minutes. Yeah, yeah. We'll have an exactly how it's to come as part back to tell, but his attitude was that there was nothing left. Yeah, the video of the Rodgers talking about it wasn't

one of them say what was the worst part of it and he said coming back up? Yes, yeah, and I think that's because a lot of what they say is very much, you know, that can stiff up our, of our bitty lips and it's, it's fine and you have to, you know, knowing what, having put together a book, knowing what preceded it, we can now understand why that was because it was, I mean, they're being rescued but it took two hours to get them to the surface and they were being smashed about for a good chunk of that, and when they weren't being smashed about, they were hanging like a, like a fish and a hook unaware what was happening. And all the time, they know that at the very limit of, of, of what oxygen's left. So,

it's that thing where, when you look at all the components that had to be in place for them to be rescued, the curve being flown over from California, the Pisces flying over from Halifax, the team coming over from the North Sea, and when you look at all the things that went wrong, you all you have to think about is another link in that chain being delayed or another problem or something that you know like imagine it took it was four hours to fix the curve and electrics to get this up to imagine it took four and a half or five I mean they were that close because it wasn't that case of it took a long time to get for the rescue to begin and then the rescue went really smoothly literally

everything that could have gone wrong with the rescue did go wrong but they still managed to get them up and that was it's to, is that great line from Winston Churchill, never, ever, ever give up? And I think that this rescue's a testament to that. What did the guys do after this? Did they go back to the sea? Did any of them descend again? Yeah, both of them, but within, within a few weeks, they were, they were back in the

submarine. In the last, uh, such lots. Yeah, absolutely. Well, Malin's in that attitude was, you know, you need to, you know, there was errors, but you wanted to go back onto the submarine. Enchantment did it for a spell, but Enchantment used his experiences to set up a company that developed rescue for submarines. So, so, Chapman went on to take his experience and turn it into a very successful business that was involved in the, that was called upon point but not used tragically for the curse disaster, but then was called

a point to rescue another Russian submarine, you know, I think it was 10, 12 years ago. So, yeah, he had an amazing experience from it. Commercialized his catastrophe. Yeah, absolutely. But always, always very special, but it was that the bond between the two remained up until I mean, I mean, tragic, and Roger Chapman sadly died a year ago in January, I think it was. But up until, up until the September before, on the day of the rescue, Malonson would phone him at the same, at the exact moment that they were rescued just after one o'clock on the anniversary. And then afterward, at a certain point, you would meet for lunch on that day every year. So there was a very close bond that existed as a consequence of the rescue and the experiences down there and the deep. Did you get to speak to them? I got to speak to Malantin a lot. And

beside Lee Roger Chapman had died before I began researching the book. But I spoke to his widow, Jim Chapman, who is very supportive and he's too son to be very supportive and into being balanced in a lot for the book, along with his men as the rescuers who were still alive. So it was a great pleasure to speak to them and to also to feel that, to try and effectively illuminate this story, which has been largely forgotten, but it is an incredible tale of heroin and also that element of what you can do if a team pulls together. There's something sort of specially nostalgic and kind of beautiful about it because as you say it was the analog age, probably just toward the end of it.

But if, yeah, go ahead. No, it's interesting to say that when I was research on the book, I discovered that this was 73 when the contact cable was laid and as I said 175 phone calls could be made at any point. But in that same year, the first mobile phone call was made. It was by one developer to another, to his competitor effectively to say that he was a bit of a head of the game. And it's one of these when we were regretting that, I actually didn't use it as a footnote somewhere because it was effective. I just could have liked the touch of that. there was it was it was an analog age But it was the also the year that the future me the future of the year effectively

But there was that kind of nice touch But yeah, I mean it was this was this is men and boilers. So it's with T squares Trying to fix things so you mean even the device the toggle that that rescue them You know that was designed on paper with the two squares and manufactured in a few hours. In fact, in a nice touch, they would appeal to an eiling comedy when they went over to the fabrication unit, having designed this rescue toggle,

they spoke to the foreman and said, we've got to make this build and it looked and said, yeah, look, we can start it next week. And he said, no, no, we did this. So he put them on to Leonard Redshaw and Redshaw and no one's certain term to install them that it would be made today. In fact, this afternoon and they said, right, why didn't you say so they'd be made it in the space for a few hours?

Didn't the Queen contact the guys at one point? Well, that was the great thing. They get a message, garbled down from the phone that Queen Elizabeth is thinking is, is thinking well of you. And now, and this was very moving to them because, um, Chapman had served in the Royal Navy. So you serve, you serve her majesty effectively. And Malanson was also deeply moved this idea that at this hour, they are kind of, you know, darkest hour, the Queen, the monarch, you know, Britannia, effectively was thinking well of them and it kept them going,

but it was only until they got to the surface a couple of days later that what it was was, it was the QE2 had been steaming past and had offered to assist, but that assistant wasn't required, but they said, look, wish the man well. So it wasn't the Queen at all? No, it wasn't the Queen, it was the QE2, but the message that they got and that helped sustain them was that it was the Queen herself, that was wishing them well, so it's best they didn't know. I'm sure that she would have done as well. Yeah, the video of the guys coming out and the interview with them afterward is peak, hard British guy from sort of the mid-1900s,

no, it was mostly fine down there. We could have survived for another day or so. Yeah, yeah. Oh, it's, it's, it's, it's, I suppose that's what's fascinating about it, is that kind of age where, you mean, okay, what was interesting about it is they both gave quite moving interviews,

one to the tele, I wanted a meal, but we could so later, but it was that it's not the days where people, it's effectively kind of the cameras brought out, please emote, please emote copiously. It wasn't like that at all, it was, it was, it was that very British thing of, I've gone through the greatest trauma of my life, but how do I minimise it? It was but a scratch, yeah, exactly. Yes, yes. But that's the benefit of putting together a book like the dive whereby you can lay out

only effectively when you lay out chronologically and as much detail as I've been able to do, where you show what everything going wrong and then what's put in place to rectify that. And even remarkable people like, as I say, it can have a Ted Carter, I spoke to him about it. So I mean, he was down in the submarine. Everything had gone wrong. His colleagues' lives are effectively literally in his hands, because he's the man who's manipulating this toggle and he has to get it in. And I asked him about the pressure of that and the booker referred to the fact that, I mean, there's like 50 tons of pressure bearing down on the submarine, but internally there should be the same amount of bearing down on him. But he was very blasking about

it. You know, he just said, nah, I'm not. Some people have just built that way that they're very under, under at times of great crisis, they can be very relaxed and very focused. And he was one of those kind of characters whereby he had a job to do, he managed to get it done. Right man, for the jobs. Yeah, and saved and saved his colleagues life along with the rest of the team. Amazing man, that's such a fascinating story, I think you've done an awesome job with the book. That'll be linked to the dive, will be linked on Amazon below. Any other bits if people want to learn more about this? Yeah, well, yeah, well, the dive. That's the base we should do. But I mean, it's a fascinating story.

And also what I was glad, because also in the book I tell the story of, there's a section where I talk about the development of submarines, but also the lane of the cable back in the 1850s and 60s, this great kind of nautical journey to try and connect the old world and the new is quite an amazing story and they were this little part of it further down the line. But I hope people will read it because it is one of those situations whereby it's just the ability of people not giving in and a team of men rescuing their colleagues. Beautiful story. Steven McGinty, ladies and gentlemen, thanks so much for the time. Nope, thank you very much. Thank you. Yn yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n gweld. Yn yw'n gweld. Yn yw'n gweld.

Yn yw'n gweld. Yn yw'n gweld. Yn yw'n gweld. Yn yw'n gweld. Yn yw'n gweld. Yn yw'n gweld. Yn yw'n gweld. Yn yw'n gweld.

Yn yw'n gweld. Yn yw'n gweld. Yn yw'n gweld. Yn yw'n gweld. Yn yw'n gweld. Yn yw'n gweld. Yn yw'n gweld. Yn yw'n gweld. Yn yw'n gweld. Yn yw'n gweld.

Yn yw'n gweld. Yn yw'n gweld. Yn yw'n gweld. Yn yw'n gweld. Yn yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n gweld. Yn yw'n gweld. Yn yw'n gweld. Yn yw'n gweld. Yn yw'n gweld. Yn yw'n gweld. Yn yw'n gweld.

Yn yw'n gweld. Yn yw'n gweld. Yn yw'n gweld. Yn yw'n gweld. Yn yw'n gweld. Yn yw'n gweld. Yn yw'n gweld. you