Modern Wisdom - #356 - Yeonmi Park - What It's Truly Like Living In North Korea

Episode Date: August 9, 2021

Yeonmi Park is a North Korean defector, an author and a YouTuber. North Korea is the most shrouded, dictatorial and walled-off nation on earth. The only press who are permitted access are get shown a performance masquerading as real life and leaving the country is essentially impossible. At 13 years old, Yeonmi escaped along with her sister & mother. Expect to learn how North Korea's citizens are conned into spying on each other, why it's better to die than go to prison, how the state has managed to get the total escapees down to 0 in the last few years, if Yeonmi is scared about retribution from Kim-Jong Un and much more... Sponsors: Get 5 Free Travel Packs, Free Liquid Vitamin D and Free Shipping from Athletic Greens at https://athleticgreens.com/modernwisdom (discount automatically applied) Get 83% discount & 3 months free from Surfshark VPN at https://surfshark.deals/MODERNWISDOM (use code MODERNWISDOM) Extra Stuff: Buy In Order To Live - https://amzn.to/37jDKdB Check out Yeonmi's YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpQu57KgT7gOoLCAu3FFQsA  Get my free Reading List of 100 books to read before you die → https://chriswillx.com/books/ To support me on Patreon (thank you): https://www.patreon.com/modernwisdom - Get in touch. Join the discussion with me and other like minded listeners in the episode comments on the MW YouTube Channel or message me... Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chriswillx Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/chriswillx YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/ModernWisdomPodcast Email: https://www.chriswillx.com/contact Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello friends, welcome back to the show. My guest today is Yon Mi Park. She's a North Korean defector, an author and a YouTuber. North Korea is the most shrouded dictatorial and Waldorf nation on earth. The only press who have permitted access get shown this performance masquerading as real life and leaving the country is essentially impossible. At 13 years old, Yon Mi escaped, along with her sister and mother. Today, I expect to learn how North Korea's citizens are conned into spying on each other.

Why it's better to die than go to prison, how the state is managed to get the total escapees down to two in the last few years. If Yon Mi is scared about retribution from Kim Jong Un and much more, it's harrowing to find out that such barbaric and medieval brutal conditions are being imposed on anybody that's alive right now, that state-enforced famine is a weapon to control a population somewhere. Yeah, I mean, what can be done about this is a hugely complex question, but if nothing else,

it should make you incredibly grateful for wherever it is that you're living right now. Another reason to be very grateful for where you're living right now is that the Modern Wisdom Reading List is finally live. 100 books that you should read before you die. You can get your copy right now for free by going to chriswillex.com slash books. This is taken months to write. It's over 10,000 words long. There's summaries of why I love each different read in there. There's links so that you can immediately go and get the book on Amazon. I adore it.

It's optimized for mobile. It's beautiful. It's got some of the most impactful and important books that I've ever read in my life. And some that you definitely will never have heard of before. There's fiction, nonfiction, and real life stories. It'll also sign you up to my three-minute Monday newsletter. You need this in your life. Get your phone out now and head to chriswillx.com slash books.

But now it's time for the wise and wonderful, YonMe Park. Yon Mi Park. Welcome to the show. Thank you for having me, please. Looking back now, does it feel like a dream when you think about your time living in North Korea? Totally. You know, when I was watching this movie called Inception,

right, there's a very confusing part. You don't know what is dream anymore. And so when I dream, interestingly enough, I am still in North Korea. And this is the one thing that North Koreans share. After they even escape, when they dream, they are still in North Korea. So when we wake up, we still think we are in North Korea. Sometimes we have to remind each other it's not.

And so I learn how to pinch myself. That's why I heard that if you pinch and if you're painful, that's like you know it's a reality. And so I do pinch myself a lot many many days. What were you dreaming about when you were in North Korea? The themes are very similar, right. Like always how do we find food, you know, bedding the neighbors, going around town, and everything you're about escape. How are we going to escape? There's a flood happening in the summertime. The guys is watching and always looking for ways to survive. It's never about like chill having a happy moment or sometimes like I go back to North Korea

and my neighbors are recognizing me that I'm the enemy and they try to punish me. So always like that kind of dream, like running away, you know. Isn't it weird that while you were there, you were dreaming of being away and while you're here, you're now dreaming of being back. It's kind of like you can never leave in a way. No, I don't think it's possible. Yeah. I don't know what it is, but all North Koreans have the same thing. I ask every North Korean that I meet, and they always say the same thing. So something about it, I don't know why. I don't know what other distance do, like the people who

skip Cuba or Venezuela, if they do the same thing. But at least when you come to North Koreans, we somehow are not able to live in North Korean or dreams. What's the closest that you've been back to North Korea? Have you been to the DMZ? I have not been to the DMZ, but I've been to very close North Korea during the Blue launches. I don't know if you heard about it there.

NGOs that we use the Blue ones and sending leaflets to North Korea. And it pops in in the North Korean sky. So inside the leaflets, we have, like, talking about how Kim's are dictators. So during those balloons, we had to go wheel in the border from North Korea. And South Korea, from South Korea. OK, yeah. And then you just put North Korea. And South Korea. To that.

And then you just put them up, let the wind carry them over and they pop and release pamphlets everywhere. Yes, exactly. What do you think the likelihood of people in North Korea believing what you've sent over? Because the brainwashing is pretty strong. And it seems almost un-falsifiable that if you were to get

these sort of leaflets flown over, it's an easy excuse to say this is just more propaganda from the West. This is America proving that they are our enemies that are trying to brainwash you away from us. They do that and I think in the past North Korea regime would like the light circulated rumors. If you pick up a leaflet or something, it's gonna, you know, it's gonna, your skin gonna fall off. Or you're gonna become a dev, or you're like, come in and lose. Never pick up something that was like, you know, coming from other country. However, in the people are so desperate.

So they eat whatever. So we didn't really like leaflets. We put like $1 USD. And we also put some in a chocolate pie. I don't know why you know, that's like a life, you know, snacks. So they also pick them up and eat them. And then they realize like, we don't die. But of course, if you call and doing somebody says you're gonna be dead sentence or sent to concentration camp. And I met a lot of stereotypes, factors who were listening to and picking up this liftlets and learned about truth

and escape. So I think I'm sure there are some people do not believe it, but there's still quite some people do change their mind and it's eventually escape. What's a typical day in a North Korean person's life like? That is a good question because, you know, North Korean lives are very... So in America, even I was thinking about thinking about the present, right? The life of Joe Biden and some peasant life in America, the farmer's life, wouldn't

be that different. Think about it. When they were gone, they're gonna have a shower, they have a warning water, they have a running electricity, they have TV, they have running refrigerator, they have breakfast, lunch, dinner, right? So even if you're like the trillion year, life isn't that different compared to somebody in the bottom. Even though a homeless people here can eat and drink.

But in North Korea, interestingly enough, they have a caste system. It is very ironic. And I thought he was paralyzed. Nobody should be equal. But initially they started a country as making everybody equal, but they made it to big, dirty characters of caste system. Then within three characters, they are dividing into 50 different characters.

So depending on what status you cast, you are in, your life is vastly different. So like my case, I was born a meter class where my father was like parting member. But still, middle class in New York, you don't have a morning order, you don't even know what shower is, you don't even have about 24 hours electricity,

you don't have cars, public transportation. Your days are always planned by the party. I remember one thing I checked when I went to South Korea, someone gives me this notebook and that was a planner. So I never seen a planner in my life, so what do you do with this? It's the easiest to give you what you're going to do with this day, this month, you plan your year ahead. In North Korea, you can never plan your day. That is not even concept for us because we don't own ourselves. In the day before or the week before,

we have some medical leader in the family, the town. Everybody's got to be associated something in North Korea. They give us our big schedule. So what would that look like? What would that schedule look like? So it usually begins with the labor. So it doesn't pay you, but we all revolutionaries. We got a five-foot-of-revolution of the country, right? Even your kids, there's not such a concept of minor in North Korea.

All eruders. So even if you're like five years, or you've got to work. So basically they say, oh, school kids this morning, get about 5 a.m., we go to some collective farm, or we go to railroad and break in the rocks. Or we go to dam and we work for the construction workers. So from 5 a.m., we work until 8 a.m. Then sometimes they ask us to bring us our breakfast or go home to eat breakfast. And then we go home to eat breakfast, then we have to go to school afterwards.

Then when we go to school, we spend three hours learning about the revolution history and the brain is about a day or a little. And how amazing they are. After the brainwashing is done, they say, okay, go look at lunch or bring your lunch with you. But a lot of kids can't now go to eat, so they don't eat lunch. Then after lunch ends, they take us to the farm again, to collect it from all the factory, all the construction work zone.

But this thing is same thing with the adults and the kids. We all have to work. So entire afternoon, we spend on on working and then we work helping the farmers with their harvest. When the thing ends, we they do let us go to have dinner. And then sometimes they don't end the labor until 10 p.m. or 11 p.m. Then when that ends, we go home at dinner and then we sleep about that same schedule with the next day, we wake up at 5 a.m. and North Korea has a radio

that regime gives it for free. Everybody has to get ready about courses like all about brainwashing you. And that also radios tells you when to have dinner, when to have lunch, when to get up, like everything is collectivism. You cannot choose, like, settle your own alone, like, I'm going to get up like 10 to 10, like 9 to 10, everybody have to work with the same schedule.

So that's the life of someone that was middle class. What about upper class? I don't even know. But because the thing is that in America, I guess, mainly, there's middle class. Then, some in the bottom and top, right? But most of people still have somewhere in between the middle, lower middle and higher middle. But in North Korea, most people in the poverty line, I can 90% of them are poverty. Within 10%, that's a committed class.

But then within that 10% there's like 1,5% is a really small percentage of population who are privileged. So they do, of course, have fence. They, all these guys have their own pleasure squad. They have a, you know, what's a pleasure squad? It's the girls they pick up around the country, pick up all the virgin girls who have good family status, and they train them from when they're kids.

And then when they become 16 or 17 years old, they take them to the Ponyan Capital. Then they train them to be masseuse, dancer, satisfaction group is like sexual pleasure group. They divide in different groups. Then there is a pleasure squad for the Kim Jong-un, the second power, the top-led skies, all have these groups every year, they get a new group to play with them. So their life starts like unimaginable.

They have private island, they have yacht, they go to study Switzerland, I mean, Kim the moment to school in Switzerland. So the top-electric life is like unimaginable life that then even better than the US present like life in some ways. How's this enforced? How do you enforce such a rigid class system? You are, I mean, the beginning of the North Korean study as a communist, right? Kim Min-seon came in and he was the admirer of learning and studying and Marx. Then he said, okay, we don't like inequality.

So why don't we come to get entire land from people and especially the capitalists? So they were killing the capitalists and getting all the lands from everybody and nationalized everything. Then they said, OK, nobody wants anything, now there's no private property. That's how it really emanates inequality by getting rid of everything.

After that happened, and then Kim were thinking, okay, we see the ruling class who knows better, who decides a party's direction. So they called, like, initially they called themselves as the citizens of the people. The elites were working for us. They say, we are the servants for you and you guys are so grateful, you should be so grateful that we have these people wants to sacrifice their lives for the revolution of our country. And then they were decided in collective forms, everything is collective. We decide who becomes a farmer. So the party decides, so in North Korea, the newborn, like, your life is determined before you're born.

So when I even South Korea are saying like, what do you do to life? I will shock. You know, when in North Korea, when you're born, depending on what your great-great-grandfather did during the Korean War or during the like-Japan's colonialization, that my status is determined already by the party. And I think that's the biggest difference here is that people can dream your life and design it what you want to do.

But in North Korea, that's not even like some concept that people understand. And then if you mate between different groups, between different casts, it's on your one-way system. If you mate down, the person that is lower doesn't become upper. It's always the person that's upper becomes lower. So you have an increasingly reducing number of people that are at the top and increasingly larger number of people that are at the bottom.

Exactly. So that's the thing, like that's how they prevent mixing between classes. Because the sacrifice that you would have to pay in order to mix between classes as the higher position would be to sacrifice your place. Yeah, it's really like it's so evil that way. They really prevent people to mix around. So they mean there's no such thing in our career called like marrying up. You only marry down no matter what. If you marry somebody lower you go down with them you can never go up with them How do people choose their partners then let's say that it's not about moving between different classes? Yeah, what does

Dating look like in North Korea? So more the average people the peasants They are a little a patient, right? So they are going to be forever farmers, but in those case, farmers means you're mostly not like you're going to start to death. Like farmers, the regime, the collective harvesting, and then they take like 98% of the harvest to the elites. So these entire farmers working the farm,

entire summer and fall and winter, they don't get much food, they get like few grains, few corn or day, so they have to go get the tree barks and eat the boughs and that's how they survive. So in North Korea, if you become a farmer, it's almost like the death sentence to you. It's there's really no hope of surviving. So I think regime is people, I mean dating is really like dating with your circle,

but in the past though, like dating is romance is really shanfripping. So regime even the category of mothers say in 2017, because Kim Jong-un is so paranoid that the people's love for the mother gonna distract their love for the leader and the party so they deny every other love other than the love for the Kim's and the party so people used to be always through the family and Zeta or the party orders like these girls who go become a pleasure squad members, they get the order from the regime. It's called like assignment. So they assign who you should marry.

And the elites today are all like the regime assigns. So somebody who maintains, they become very privileged, then they set up a day for them. So the regime literally decides everything for you. So, originally, literally, besides everything for you, you don't have to do anything there, I think. Is there a marriage ceremony? There is. And then the first thing you have to do is when you become a union, you have to go to a statue of Kim's and pay the respect. And, you know, you've got to, like, you have this, like, the kind of like all that you're gonna become

a good union to support the Socialist Revolution. And the way why you marry North Korea is not about expressing your love or finding your soulmate, but because you want to serve the party better, become a better revolutionary, that's why you're marrying, not for a lot. So immediately after making vows to another person, what the regime's trying to do is redirect that emotion back to the state straight away.

Yeah. Yeah, that's interesting. You said about the farmers and about the fact that 98% of their produce gets taken away. I'm going to guess that a lot of farmers must try to sneak bits of their crops to keep stuff behind. Does that happen? No, then you're going to be kicked and tortured and you're going to send a prison camp. Remember in China during the miles of five years planning that anybody who got food and got out of the collective thing, they get severely, severely punished. I mean, you don't like this, this people, when you say these officials

are not just like normal people, they are like the so evil, cruel, cruel like torture, like guards are most military guards. In that environment, you work. It's very oppressive, but it's very oppressive, it's like everybody's a prisoner in North Korea. So you can now like there to steer things.

Well, you can literally in the concentration camps, right? The kids are working hard and they raise pigs for the officials to eat. And then they feed these corn to pigs. And when they have fishes come out, and there's in between, there's a corn comes out, and this, like people image eat that. And they, the guys feed them and torture them. Even for eating the corn that's gone through a pig already. Yeah. So that's how the treatment being. And so if there is no way you can get

away, if you get caught, that's the thing. You get like become handicapped or like sent to camps. Okay. Yeah. So if 98% of the produce has been taken away from the farmers, plus there's a famine amongst most of the population. Do you think that the there is a bulk of food that's actually being thrown away? At the top is it just, is there more food being produced than the people who are allowed to eat the food can eat? So the here is a big North Korea farm really struggles because they cannot even have a fertilizer. So, as a North Korean kid, we all have to give things to the party. Initially, they promised that we are going to give everything for free to you guys.

The give us the liberty grant they can give you, but eventually they will bring everything to us, like we are the ones that keep them alive. So, because we don't have a fertilizer, literally we have assignment, bring poop to school and outdoors. Like in North Korea, there are poop dips, literally. Because you have assigned to bring a one ton of poop

each family, or like 200-year-old per student. So in the winter time, we don't go to school and then they kick you out of the classroom and go look for a cook. So because the farmers need a fertilizer and they can now make the fertilizer. So we need to bring fishes that humans make. So and then we bring them to the farmers.

Then that's how you get all this impestance the worms you get. Like there's a one soldier who got caught and threw the DMZ. When he got to South Korea, they were seeing his long, long, long worms in his body. And that is the biggest problem in North Korean people, with the VR crops that were the human species and mixed, so that we have so many disease from that. So the farming is not the harvest is not that great. And there's so much

library and corruption. So when that happens, and this leads to take it away for themselves, and they themselves don't give you an entire thing for the for the party. So it's like North Korea is one of the most corrupt countries in the world. And yeah. How does the prison system work? I mean, is there a prison or is it just forced labor camps and death? So there are three types of prison camps in North Korea. And there's two types of crime, too. The one is prolifer crime,, and second is economic crime.

So even you rape somebody or murder somebody. I mean, by the way, rape is not even crime in North Korea. You don't even know what rape is. Like if somebody raped, like that girl gets punished. I mean, men have a pleasure squad. Like, we don't even know that sexual harassment is a thing. So, that's not even crime. So let's say murder. Murder is even like an economic crime. Because you've taken a worker away from the party.

But then that's going to even punish them much because human life doesn't mean much in that country. We don't even know what human life is. But most of your crime is a public crime. Like let's say your house cut off caught on fire. You have your children, your mother, or like sleeping next to you. But you have a portrait of Kim's every house would have the portrait of Kim's. So what do you do when the house gets caught on fire? You don't want your children on your arms. You have to protect the portraits. Otherwise, the regeneration of that family get punished.

All I give you is a newspaper. Every newspaper from page got to have a photos of Kim's. But when you didn't see that, and you see the back of the paper, and you repeat by mistake, that's what you go to political prison camp. And that's a life sentence you never come up. And you take three generations of your family video. So there are like concentration camps,

that is lifetime sentence. Then there is a labor camps, that is more like the monitors, or divs, or like, you know, cream and airs they send. That is like a user sentence you come up. The last one is a labor camp. First labor camp, that's's more, I mean, re-education camp. Those are more like one between three years short amount of sentence.

And then of course there's public execution for somebody who cannot be reading just they are going to kill them anyway. So usually those, if somebody say, oh, I don't believe in the parties like Revolution Ideology, then that person gets executed, and the family members usually go to concentration camp. And then they never come out. And the North Korea needs this concentration camp that inmates because they need to do a lot of the chemical tests. There's a gas chamber, but North Korea does a lot of biopsychotic weapons.

So they use it like inmates to do the auto-stats on them, and then they have to clean the nuclear debris. So they get the formative and they die from cancer. So they keep creating these political prisoners to do all this job that they don't want the normal population to be exposed to. It's not just the public executions that are executions then. There's a lot of other ways that you can be forced to die in these different levels of prison.

I've always spent when you sent a political prison camp is 3 months. Most of them do not last more than 3 months. So when you go to a political prison camp, it's better off to be dying right now. So that's why when defectors escape in my serve, we were ready to kill ourselves. We were not going to go send back and be tortured and go to concentration camp. And I, that's the most painful measure where you can die. You are so certain that you would have gone back and you would have been killed, that it's just easier to take your own life instead of suffer.

It's not just certain, it's not just Korean regime what they say. So if you go to China, and then if you are trying to escape to South Korea, that's the sentence. That's a public execution or concern here in camp like that's a law. So we all know that what the law says. So when North Korea is actually escaped, they all like to rescue themselves. Can you explain about how the lineage from Kim Il Sung sort of through to now has worked? Because it's quite an interesting story. Yeah, so this is another irony, right? Like in communism, you don't have a king, but North Korea became a kingdom, right? The kings became not just a king, they became a god

for North Koreans. So interesting about Kim Yersung is that the first game, his parents were devolved Christians. So Kim Yersung thought, okay, if I copy Bible and tell him, so when you become a God, you don't have to be logical. You don't have to explain why things work the way, right? Like, it's a higher power. Like, you know, you don't try to understand God's logic. So it becomes much easier to brainwashing population. So he literally copied the Bible saying, I'm not God. I love you guys so much. So I'm giving you my son Kim Dongye,

who's gonna work for the, you know, the revolution of the country, but his body dies, but don't believe that he is spiritually with us forever. Therefore, he can be your thoughts and minds and how many hair in your head. Exactly what the Bible says, right? The Jesus came, he died, and he's spiritually with us all the time. And that's how I believe that kings were like reading my thoughts. I was afraid to think. I believe that Kim's were like reading my thoughts. I was afraid to think. People in North Korea, the thought quen, I think he is not like three. So that's how Kim Wilson came as a communist.

And then he making this country confiscate all the land, nationalize everything. And he was, I think, more dreamer. He really wanted to thought, I think communism would work. I don't know what it does, but however, when it came to his son, they knew that this thing is for themselves, obviously. And brutally perjured every time the new king comes. And now Kim Jong-un, the top officials lifespan is only three years too. So Kim Jong-un is killing everybody every three years.

So they don't get corrupt and then consolidate power. So you cannot start the coup. So when you become a tabi lit, if you stand a long palm, you are going to cause consolidate power and get the build allies. By Kim Jong-un execute them and punishing them every three years by doing that, you get eliminated any competition.

Where do you think the paranoia comes from? Is this something that they've been taught by their parents? Have they got a very strong genetic trait for just being unbelievably anxious? What's going on? I think they even know what they're doing is not acceptable. Right? I mean, she was killing this type of fish in a meeting because he was falling asleep in a minute, and then that guy right next hour get executed in the fire squad. Right?

So, she knows that people are being him and people are living in that country not just because they want to live there, it's just out of fear they are doing it. So I'm sure everybody knows that, so clearly that she's controlling the people through fear only. Nobody loves you, nobody actually cares, take care of it, and nobody wants to be a royalty on their own. So I think in a way that paranoia is a legitimate, but she doesn't have to be that way. If he tries to make things really better, and why would anybody not want to be there? It's interesting, it's like a vicious cycle when you mistreat people,

because as you mistreat them, they have less faith in you, which means that you need to use more force in order to get them to comply which means that they believe in you less which means you need to mistreat them more which means you believe in you less. And you can see how this happens. I am yet crazy thinking about this slow descent as well as you say it looks sort of 50 years ago like there might have been a genuine dream that this could have worked with some sort of a balance. What do you think? What do you think was the worst period to be alive in North Korea over? So in the North Korea began in the 50s. After the World War II, the Japan left, and the Korea became independent,

and Korean war begins. And then of course, America comes defense out Korea. So everything departed in 1953. From there on, North Korean economy was heavily subsidized by Soviet Union and China. Because that was called the word they wanted the commission to win. So they were like, why even the Soviet Union going bankrupt themselves, they're heavily subsidized in North Korean economy.

But when they collapse in 89, North Korea, that's when they really knew the coming in the Zoom work. You just spend everybody's money and that's it, everybody becomes dirty poor, right? So in the 90s, that's when the regime decided that, okay, the only success measures that we're going to have is keeping the 10% of the population alive. That's for them is a success. So as long as they maintain 10 percent alive, they think they do not have the other thing about it. So until 90 percent all die, they're going to do a thing about it. So this is why also they want the population

to be weak. Why do they starve us even though the international community begging North Korea to feed its own people? They won't give you money. The UN won't begging to give food, right? But North Korea regime says no to the older A's and all the medical A's. And the reason why they do this is that because it's controlled people when they're hungry. Like in North Koreans, what we do is that when we get up we eat the breakfast right and what we are thinking is how are we going to find lunch. Once you lunch

like oh how am I going to make like fine dinner. If you make the one day you think okay I made the one day on earth. How am I going to make tomorrow? You tomorrow is never going to be for you. You don't know like you're gonna be tomorrow. So in that mind, people are very occupied. You just survive. And then they are not gonna even think about what is dictator, what is freedom, what is the author of the word look like.

They don't care about that. And Gim Jung on every reason to stop the population. And he is using the most human torture to be a god right now. It's very difficult to think about putting a revolution together when all that you need to worry about is your next meal for you and your family. Yet it's such a effective control mechanism. Obviously it's awfully brutal, but it works. It gets the job done of not permitting any mental freedom

for people to think of those higher abstractions. I mean, you know, for you to think, to be surprised by a day planner, what's a day planner? Why would I need to plan my day? That's planned planned by the state. Yeah. Why didn't Kim Jong Il's eldest son become leader? So Kim Jong Il didn't the Kim Jong Nam who got assassinated, right? So yeah, that's an interesting story. Kim Jong Il had four lives, official lives. And then like how many ministers we don't even know, there's gonna be armies of them. So among those four, Kim Jong-nam is coming from the first life, the rich is a legitimate wife. And he was really loved by Kim Jong-hee. However, around like early 2000,

Kim Jong-nam was visiting Japan to go to Disneyland with the fake passport. On the way back, he got caught and turned took a photo of him and then it became an international like embarrassment because North Korea is all about hating the West, right? Hating America, hating Japan, hating the West's civilization. And here is the air to North Korea and thrown going to Disneyland. So it was such embarrassment. And that's when Kim Jong-A

were like almost banished. And that's how he, by the thing is, Kim Jong-nam was way more free spirit. He wasn't interested in power. He wasn't interested in control. He was more interested in opening up the economy, let's learn from the rest, let's learn what we can, let's learn like what we can do better. And he was more like believer of a Chinese direction, that Chinese Communist Party too, which is an opening up the economy. We don't have to change the party, Communist Party, like Henry Ellis opened the economy so people get fit, fit, fit. But of course, 그래서 사람들이 which was the second son, not even the first son. He was very ambitious. He was very full-time, cruel like his own father.

So Kim Jong Un and then like, oh my god, I see myself in you. So you are gonna be the next leader and he became one. So the Kim Jong Nam, I'm trying to keep up with all of the names here, he was misaligned to be the sort of leader that everybody needed in any case. Do you think he was killed only a couple of years ago? He was assassinated.

But it seems like the trip to Japan was a convenient excuse for somebody that probably didn't meet the criteria to be a leader in any case. Yeah, no, he wasn't going to be that brutal and clear the uncle. Like literally Kim Jong-un is way more brutal than any previous Kim. He used this like aircraft that shoots down the airplane. He used that to execute people.

So it makes the people become a dust. Literally, like you become into pieces of this blood, that's like, that's a thing. That's how as a kid's people and to show the actual terror. But as you said, you gotta use more fear as time goes by. And more fear and fear, fear, and there's no ending to it.

And Kim Jong-un, like literally, when he executes on Uncle, that she has no place to be buried in this land, so making him into dust. That's why they used the aircraft that's gone, almost to shoot him down, so he became into pieces and nobody could collect his bodies. What was the outcome? Because he got, was it a nerve agent in Singapore, Japan? No, Malaysia. That was a brother, that was a brother,

but the uncle, when Kim Jong Un was killing his uncle, but Kim Jong Un's case, the nerve agent, that they wrapped his nose and face, and then he just tied it within a few minutes, and his body was sent to Pyeongyang afterwards, and we don't know what they did with his body, but he was killed in the, and it was so sad because he was providing information

to the US intelligence for the last 10 years, and then the US didn't do a thing about protecting him. Like, he was on that tree meeting a CIA agent in the Northern Ireland of Malaysia for two days. After he was giving all the information, and when he was about to go home, back to his family, they killed him. And this is so sad. Nobody protects anybody at this point.

Did you hear the story of why the two women that rubbed the rag in his face did it or why they said? So they claimed that they were, that they'd been told that they were doing a prank on a TV show. Is that right? Yeah, they told all these times on prank TV show. This makes no sense. I mean, these girls were like not touching themselves. They were going washing their hands like very carefully that. I mean, that was a prank. Why would they do that? So, the thing is point is that I think even those girls were victims. They were, I don't, I don't really don't think that's the important thing, you know, the most important thing is how there is no revenge or no accountability. Even John Mark Country, the Saudi journalist,

we all know that when he got chopped off into pieces in the Saudi counseling Turkey, there's no consequences for killing a decent. That is the word that we are living in, like of course people talk about injustice or other things, but this is clear injustice. These are clear murderers. But to control, it's a great control mechanism, right? If, as a dissident, you know that not only you're probably going to be killed, but that the people that are going to kill you aren't going to be brought to account, and the more that this happens, the more that dissidents, killers,

aren't put on trial or aren't called to account for the things that they've done, the more fear it instills in people that want to speak out against regimes that need it, and the more it empowers the regimes that want to control the population. Absolutely. I mean, when Putin poisons his distance, I mean, I mean, in India, Saudi students, North Koreans, that's that. Like, even there's really no accountability at this point. And this is, I think one of the justice area that we are struggling. And I think that this is I don't know how to even solve this. But the thing is what a joke. The image of the Saudis in Chinese and Russians deciding who are the human rights

violators at the UN. So this is almost a joke to me that. Michael Malice. Michael Malice will have a solution for this. He's always got a solution for Madhannaki, Lawshade, and different countries. All right, so how does North Korea make its money if it doesn't tax its citizens? Yeah, I mean, they own us. So they, so many ways. So number one is they are the biggest exporter of Christian math and opium. You're kidding me. The biggest exporter of crystal math. Yeah, and the opium. So they in North Korea, they cultivate opium in the school years, literally. I remember playing this cute, pretty flower. And my mom studied chemistry in the university, and her colleagues were picked up to go to his labs

making all the drugs to share, right? To North Korea, 60% of the even teenagers got addicted to these drugs. Because when you are sick in North Korea, you don't have medicine. Free healthcare, but I had my appendix removed. There is a noineist issue. They cut bonds with ionist issues, so when people get sick, they take the drug to relieve the pain and that's how they become like when little total gets cold and they

don't know what to do am I'm only not money or something, then parents give them like opium to relieve the pain. And we don't even know what this thing is because regime cultivates it, right? We don't have a knowledge of it. So they set the crystal mat, they exported everywhere to the world. And then they sell a lot of misogynist.

So all those words that happen in the Middle East, that all those weapons are happening in the Middle East, that all those weapons are so Biden or Screens selling miscires, weapons, and they were also selling that new career, the strategy, the technology to Iranians, Pakistanians, they're selling those like how to build new careers for the dictators, right? They are the kind of work for that to go for. And not only that, they stare their own people, they stare their workers to Africa. So there's a lot of dictators in Africa. So this North Korean workers go to Africa and build statues for the dictators.

Because North Koreans are good at building statues, right? That's like, what, or we got. So all the statues you see, all the indicators in Africa are big by North Koreans. And then they send the word, they were seen in Quatar, Poland, in Siberia, in China. And they work as a Korean word, or there's like, really going to minor. So, would it be, if you were chosen to go to one of these other countries presumably you're going to live under slightly more luxurious circumstances than you're going to know you're going to be even worse in Poland or in Africa? They build a camp for you when you go abroad, they build a camp like prison camp When you go abroad, they build a camp, like prison camp, and all the banners about the propaganda banners and statues and the portraits of kings. And then they are not free to leave that building or the camp.

And there's a revised documentary that people work in Siberia, North Korean workers. They got 00 freedom and they work 15 hours so that without any even like safety equipment and the entire money they make conservation. So their food even quality is so so they are so like hungry, they are like eating the trash that other people like throw away but they can't even go out. So there's somebody who's charged to go out and taking a trash, food and bring that to them. And even that, of course, North Koreans are grateful. And they go to like three, we are going to be farming. They go all around the country, the North Korean also women. Now it's like a child. They are trying to attract a Chinese tourist to North Korea. And the government wants borders,

so they can attract a Chinese tourist to come and have sex with these young girls. And of course, the entire money goes to the regime. And then have these restaurants, right? The North Korean restaurants in China in a lot of European countries, this girls go, and they have to perform and sing and make the food, but they cannot live the building

I was in London last year and Michael texted me and said you should really go to this restaurant Yeah, you can't you don't say anything don't tell them that I've suggested that you should go don't mention my name don't do this that in the other Do you think that might be one of them in London is the one in London I'm not sure by exactly in London some of them in other European countries like VNI heard and the tons of them in China, Russia, in Cambodia, Laos, Thailand, really all around the world maybe Maybe Melissa is just trying to get me kidnapped. Maybe she's trying to send me somewhere

where I'm gonna get, I'm gonna get taken. But they do kidnap people. It's not a joke. They do kidnap people. They have all cameras. And if they call me somebody, they recognize as available, they kidnap them. Yeah, it's, because I mean, North Korea,

like kidnap the Japanese citizens, remember in the past, they Kinabs, everyone in the world, to come to North Korea and then they use them as a training spies and teaching them the language. Yeah, so North Korea, Kinabs, so many Japanese people, and so many people all around the world. And not only that one day Kim Jong-il was like, okay, I like Suzy and I like really have a good Suzy. So what do they do? What do you think they did?

Kidnapped a bunch of Japanese Suzy restaurants. Suzy restaurants. Yeah, exactly. They make a job, man. I cannot do one of the best Suzy shops. And then Kim Jong-il said, I really want to make good movies in North Korea. So what would they do? Oh, I remember this. So I watched this on the new Netflix series where he kidnapped the man and his wife, right?

Yeah, the biggest movie directors in South Korea. And they kidnapped them through Hong Kong. So that doesn't get it. They say kidnapped people. It's not a joke. They were in a long time. If Malice is trying to stitch me up and get me kidnapped through North Korean restaurant in London, I'm going to be pissed. All right, so do you

know how many defectors have left North Korea? Have you got any idea? So here is a thing. Nobody knows that's a clear answer, but we can estimate. There are not 33,000 North Korean defectors in South Korea. And then America is only over 200 defectors, and you can actually got a lot. I'm sure it's like several less than thousand, but still bigger than American comment. And there are about up to 300,000 North Korean defectors in China, hiding and became enslaved by Chinese people. So, but then we don't even know how many died along the journey. Like my father died, we never made it, and we knew so many people died along the journey.

So we don't know how many left and died and made it, but right now approximately 300,000 North Korean defectors in China for modern day slaves. And very reviewing the US and some in the UK and South Korea is a major. But the thing is after Kim Jong-un became empowered, he literally of course, couldn't even afford electricity. He put the, this like a high electricity under the wire fence of the entire border and that's not even there. Put the machine guns with the guards every 10 meters and then on top of that he bear with land mines on the entire border.

So the entire country became a concentration camp. So last year only two people escaped to South Korea. In the whole year, the entirety of entire year, two people made it out. By the thing is, they were not even coming from North Korea. They were coming from the ones who already escaped China and then escaped. So there's no new escape from North Korea anymore. So the defection kind of stopped at this point. Is the worst place for someone that's North Korean to be after North

Korea, China? Yeah, of course. Yeah. It's, I don't even how to say worse, what's worse, right? Like in North Korea, you, you can die from starvation, but at least with some dignity, you don't get raped, you don't get like sold, you don't get, as long as you don't go to a consensus camp, but when those cranes go there, we become like, to say, even if I kill you, we cannot go to Chinese police, right? Because the Chinese regime

doesn't catch us and us back. So, then they say, they can rape you, they can be killed, they can take your organs out. Why China is the biggest organ provider. Because I mean they get their gut, they got Xinjiang Wigers, they got foreign-grown people, they got Tibetans, they got North Koreans. So, North Koreans, when they go to China, if you're unlucky, you go get your organs out and die. If you better chances of use surviving

the countries becoming a God of bronzer and get raped every single second or being a married to Chinese farmers and who's going to be you and torture you, all like there are towns like the entire town can out for the women, so they buy one girl and the entire man in the town raped them alone. And they, you, this is the 21st century and this is happening right now. And of course, the mainstream media do not talk about this because this Chinese comments party, nobody wants to, you know, attack them. They want to have a business in China. So, even Hollywood, all talk about this justice, what everything is, they don't want to cover this.

Why aren't they covering North Korea? Because China, China's sponsor skin zone, and Hollywood gets funding from China, but they need money and they need to sell their movie in China. American corporation, like even like NBA, loved one James, look at him when he says, right? Jun, see now recently. You see the John Cena thing where he melted that struggle session apology shame on humanity I'm like this is unbelievable this is

unbelievable this is the worst region directly this is this or they won North Korea they won I mean they genocide of Xinjiang leaders their birth, they are 47% last year because they infertile everybody. They give them a list of vitamin while you don't take, giving them shots, making them they cannot reproduce. This is genocide. And these Chinese can still be around. And they are so many people say, how about America? America is worse than China, right? It's just, it's such an interesting time

to be living in this country right now. There is no more virtue. There is no more justice. It seems like. It does really feel like there's this huge blind spot. I understand that commercial interests mean that certain organizations will pay huge prices in order to criticize China, but it surprises me in a world that's so decentralized

where you have individual creators that can put things out on YouTube or even blockchain hosted video hosting websites now. You have people with huge, huge platforms that are talking about everything, anything and everything. There is a topic and a Reddit thread and a Discord server and a, you know, there's a Twitter account for it. It seems so bizarre to me that there's this huge human rights violation going on that nobody's paying any attention to and yet animal rights, global warming, these huge movements. Have you got any idea why culturally it's not being picked up more by people? Because whatever these twisty people minds they got, right?

Whatever thing, I mean the the thing is, people America especially obsessed with slavery. I mean, it happened sorry 18th century, it happened a long time ago, and there are literally people why now being enslaved in this 21st century. So the thing is, if the slavery that matters that happened like few centuries ago, why the slavery that's happening

why now is not matter to you. And that's the biggest a few centuries ago. Why does slavery is happening when nice does not matter to you? And that's the biggest hypocrisy is that. If the song slavery matters, why does kind of slavery that doesn't bother you at all, right? This is why it's all about how this became almost like identity politics. It's all about their narrative, all about winning their own power.

So I think this we are seeing that, I mean we know that Hitler became voted to come into power. He didn't like start a cool, people voted for him to become on the power and Venezuela too, right? In Cuba as well. It wasn't so even North Canadian, you're so too, like people voted for him, we wanted him. And there is no guarantee it's not gonna happen in the West. It is possible, it happened if it's not Germany. So that I think when people lose that what is right,

they lose a sense of, I think right now it's like everything, I mean the biggest problems, this kid that have, I saw at Columbia, they're pronouns. If somebody don't know, do not call their right pronoun, what it sees, whatever this weird, XYZ, whatever this thing is, this is the biggest oppression they ever feel in their lifetime. And we are raising a generation or brainwashing a generation, think that is the biggest problem in the world. And they're keeping them in the bubble.

Like they do not understand how where it is for the individuals to be free. And even know what individualism is, like in North Korea, there's no word for I. We don't even know the word I. So when I went to South Korea, they were asking me, I introduced myself, and this is all North Koreans do. Like, really from North Korea, really from Hyesan, we love to this food, and they're like, what do you mean, really? Like you, you I,

and in North Korea, that's how they, like, even get rid of this concept concept like freedom, human rights, and I. And the fact that we know what I is, that's a privilege. And of course, this people for them is the biggest oppression is that, you know, the pronouns. So, yeah, I don't know. I'm, I'm, I'm hopeful. Not really, to be honest. Yeah. I mean, it seems like China is such an obvious target for everybody to be concerned about. The militarization of the South China Sea, I watched some documentary about this the other day.

That's terrifying. They are taking over territory in Northern Pakistan. They've got this belt and road initiative. They are exporting more and more technology around the world. They've got disinformation campaigns. And then you see how easy it is to socially or culturally hijack countries like the UK or the US with particular movements. And even now, the skepticism around, is this actually people from the UK or the US talking about this problem online? Or is this just state actors from Russia or from China

that are talking about this? When you combine all of this and then, what I really would love to educate myself more on is the long- term plans of China. I know obviously there's no booklets somewhere where they've just said, oh, this is what we fancy doing. But obviously, the rumors and the obvious implication is that they would want to expand the CCP across the entire world. And like, that's an existential threat. That's a threat to the entire globe. Yeah.

And because companies want to make money and because governments don't want to lose out on import and export duty or don't want to make waves, nobody's talking about it. Like if you leave a problem longer and longer, it just gets harder and harder to fix. And yeah. I mean, what more obvious of

a potential issue could you have than a global pandemic released from perhaps a Wuhan lab? Like, it's just an endless, there's an endless laundry list, an endless laundry list of things that have happened that should have caused some repercussions for China. There's zero repercussion, right? I mean, there are blaming people saying it's coming from China, and they say, quote, or racist. That's what they're spending their energy on, right? It's like, I mean, it's coming from China. We know that. And China, even if it's not coming from the lab, let's say,

let's remove that. It was a very, very, even if it's not coming from the lab, let's say, let's remove that. It was happening in China. They had reported a world organization to be transparent about it. Right, we could have ended there if we knew all about it was. They had an old genetic code of COVID

and they could, they dev that was their duty to report the work on head organization, warning everybody what was happening. They didn't do that. They were keep saying, no, it's nothing, nothing, nothing. No transmission, nothing. So even that was enough for them to be hold accountable for what they have done to entire humanity. They cared more than two million people on the globe.

Imagine Americans did that. Can you imagine? Like, is it UK did that? The world isn't at all. If the Chinese does it, of course, like, all everybody is defending them right now. Even the people in America is defending them. I'm not sure if anyone's defending them. I think that people are willfully being ignorant to them. I think that people are willfully being ignorant to them. I think that people aren't pointing the finger in the way that they should. But yeah, I wonder whether the deconstruction of patriotism and of pride in countries like the UK and the USA, it wouldn't. So, I mean, if it's not Russia or China's plan, they must be sitting back and thinking, they're just doing our work for us. Because the one thing that would

work against an aggressive nation state like Russia or China would be a proud country that said, we want to protect our national sovereignty. We're concerned about what's happening over there. And you create an in-group and out-group dynamic, right? You have the out-group that's China. We need to protect ourselves, perhaps we're stewards of the earth. You know, USA used to be the people, team USA. I know it's a satirical movie,

but that whole movie was all about them being guardians of the globe. And because national pride's been disintegrated a lot, especially over the last two years, no one really wants to stand up for that anymore. It's very uncool. You've got this fragmented idea about what it means to be an American or a patriot. People are embarrassed about their country's history. And you think this is the perfect breeding ground for an aggressive party to come and take over because no one's going to fight back. But that's the thing I think. It's not just that it's happened this way at this point.

I think it's some kind of behind the scene, they have infiltrated this way. I don't think American people chose to be this way and be so ungrateful and so ignorant of the past and the history, right? Like, I mean, slavery began with the dawn of humanity. It's still happening. And still holding those slavery pieces in against the entire American nation and saying, this country only solution to this country tell that everything. And we build something, right? That's the thing. These people in the US now volunteer

and want to bring down the country, bring down the system and bring, I mean, like get rid of the use of the constitution, right? So, but I don't know, that's just being on their own or somebody who were influenced. It feels like they've been hijacked somehow, doesn't it? Yeah, it just feels like it's not a conspiracy theory at this point. How the country making that much progress, right?

Like from there to here, we have made so much progress as a humanity coming here. But still, only going against exact that system allowed us progress to happen. And do not want to kind of going back and what is this? Everything is reversing. The regression is happening right now, voluntarily. And I don't know what happens. How is it possible? Well, isn't it crazy that you have North Korea, a country with very low living standards where the population is forced to love the country and America, a country with very high living

standards where the population is now hating the country. Yes. It's so backward. This is of only country I saw that people hate the country but I want to be here. How many people? I won't leave. I won't leave. How many people try to come to this country? If this is really that big a tree and systemic racist country, the worst country you think is why everybody will try to come and why would you not even leave? Go away, just go to North Korea. If you want them, just go to China. No one will try to immigrate to North China. And that's the thing that proves this is a circle of great country. And now I'm saying that becomes a very controversial way.

What have been some of the repercussions of you defecting? Have you ever been threatened or has there been intelligence, surveillance ever done on you or anything like that? Well, I mean, we're going to begin when I spoke out, South Korea, of course because intelligence informed me that I I'm under killing list of Kim Jong Un and Kim Jong Un's killing list is not a joke right if he wants to kill somebody He's not killed somebody so It was it was kind of South Korean intelligence informed me that so I appreciate it

But I mean we know that no country gonna protect me. If Kim Jong-un like him, he's gonna go ahead and do it. And there's of course no pre-procution for doing that. Not only that though, I expected that to happen, but of course, because I spoke out everybody that I loved behind the three generations of my family. And even including my neighbors had to denounce me on YouTube that North Koreans show half,

the propaganda channel, you know, it's me that I'm the proper of the West, proper in the proper of the West. And this is all of the sad thing about YouTube is talking about the faith thing and the censoring people, they censor my videos, but they do not censor the video called Made by the North Korean dictatorship.

It is hilarious. You can see that video and then all my famers are gone afterwards. And I don't know if they've been executed or sent to prison camps. And of course, after that, North Korea has a smear campaign against me, creating North Korea, another way of making money through hacking, do you hear that? How many Bitcoin they store and how many hackers they waste? So they attack, even though UK health insurance companies,

they have done it. Of course, they do hackers, they create so many similar campaign against me. So that's what they do good at, the Cultural Association. So, what did that, I was gonna say, what were the accusations about your character? So it was that I'm a CIA spy, so I get paid from the CIA and saying lies.

And then I lied, North Korea has no starvation, is the best country on earth, and everything's good, but she's trying to become a sensational saying that there is a poverty, there's oppression. And the lying about me is that the worst thing that came up was that I was very individualistic and ambitious as a younger. So in North Korea, being ambitious and individualistic is like the worst thing can be, right? So on the video, they say she was the poshness machine that grew up in a pile of trash.

So she was younger, so ambitious, and so individualistic. And in the world, that thing's embraced here. And of course, the other thing they make a problem is that I said I climbed the mountain before my escape to cross the river, but they went to Google maps and Google They've measured the altitude of the mountain, but then the altitude was mountain is high here But as a young girl, how do I know what altitude you called it here or mountain? I see that now Oh, so they used a here or mountain, I see that no. Oh, so they used a discrepancy in how high the hill was versus a mountain to discredit whether or not you lived in the place that you lived. So what was the

implication of that that you were never in North Korea? No, no, no, they didn't get North Korea comes to people then. There's a lot of sympathizers of the comments party. They were saying they went to Google Maps and checked. And then what she planned was not here. I mean, it was an amount. It was here. And then even though they say, why don't you even speak English? She's not like in North Korea.

She's a fake person pretending to be North Korean. But thank God, North Korea really is my first certificate. And thank God. North Korea released my first certificate. And they really released my father's first certificate. They released my father's sentences to labor camp. And my mom's like entire record. So I am confirmed in North Korean thank God. But the sympathizers that Edie is asking me, so what's your passport, show me your passport.

How do I know that you're in North Korean? So I'm like, if I had a passport, so what's your password? Show me your password. How do I know that you're North Korean? So I'm like, if I had a password, why would I even escape? I would have flew you, right? Why would I even cross a garbage desert? So this is how dumb the word is. I just can't even fathom. But thankfully North Korea confirmed that my name is Yumi Park.

I was born in this year that day. And you're on the kill list. Exactly. So they did a way more good to me than bad because in America, I don't know, in the West people really see that that is North Korea and hate America. And North Korea is the enemy of America. Therefore they love North Korea. So I became the target from the Marxist, Latinist, Maoist, communist, and of course, like anti-Western people, everybody. And now I'm the enemy of the work. So I have a lot of enemies.

There's a big list. You're on everyone's killer list. Well, look. Exactly. If people want to check out more of your stuff, why should they go? Yeah, they can come to my YouTube channel. It's called the Voice of North Korea. And they can find me on Twitter and Instagram.

Not on TikTok though. Everything else. You're on me, Park Ladies and Gentlemen. Thank you very much for coming on. Thank you, Chris.