Modern Wisdom - #375 - Aubrey Marcus - Succeeding In Life, Business & Marriage

Episode Date: September 23, 2021

Aubrey Marcus is a podcaster, author and founder. Aubrey just sold his company Onnit to Unilever for a huge undisclosed amount and he just got married after years of polyamory. How do you find fulfilment in life when all the pursuits which used to give you meaning are now completed? Expect to learn what it feels like to wake up with millions and millions of dollars in your bank account one day, the dangers of constantly desiring validation, how Aubrey would suggest someone get into psychedelic therapy, his opinion on polyamory as a newly married man and much more... Sponsors: Get over 37% discount on all products site-wide from MyProtein at http://bit.ly/modernwisdom (use code: MODERNWISDOM) Get 10% discount on your first month from BetterHelp at https://betterhelp.com/modernwisdom (discount automatically applied) Extra Stuff: Follow Aubrey on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/aubreymarcus Buy Own The Day - https://amzn.to/326Ijmq Get my free Reading List of 100 books to read before you die → https://chriswillx.com/books/ To support me on Patreon (thank you): https://www.patreon.com/modernwisdom - Get in touch. Join the discussion with me and other like minded listeners in the episode comments on the MW YouTube Channel or message me... Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chriswillx Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/chriswillx YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/ModernWisdomPodcast Email: https://chriswillx.com/contact/  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What's happening people? Welcome back to the show. My guest today is Aubrey Marcus. He's a podcaster, author and founder. Aubrey just sold his company on it to UniLiever for a huge, undisclosed amount. And he just got married after years of polyamory, which is a non-monogamous style of relationship where you have multiple partners at once. I wanted to discover how do you find fulfillment in life when all the pursuits which used to give you meaning are now completed. Today, I expect to learn what it feels like to wake up with millions and millions of dollars in your bank account one day.

The dangers of constantly desiring validation, how Orbre would suggest someone get into psychedelic therapy, his opinion on polyamory as a newly married man, and much more. There is something going on, man, when I speak to Orbre, there is something happening. It happened on the first episode, he's just, he is one of the most awakened humans that I think I've ever met. He's so present and aligned and self-aware. He's a real deal. He genuinely, genuinely is. So yeah, enjoy this one. Before we get onto other news, a little announcement,

we hit 20 million plays on YouTube, which is quite a big number. Sounds like pretty big number. And the next few weeks are not slowing down. Coming up, we've got Ryan Holiday, Robert Green, Brett Weinstein, and Heather Haying, John McWirter, Oliver Cuxson, the guy that founded my protein, John Navarro, Alan M.K., Sebastian Younger, Benjamin Hardy's coming back on, and Dr Andrew Huberman.

All coming up within the next few months, make sure that you've hit the subscribe button. It's the only way that you can ensure that you will never miss an episode when they're live. But now it's time for the very wise and wonderful Aubrey Marcus. Allbrew Marcus, look at the show. Thanks Chris, happy to be here again man. I know dude, congratulations on the marriage.

Yeah, that's the big one right? I mean, I was expecting on it to come out of that. But the big one is the marriage. I got my dream relationship. I mean, it's stunning. Just layers and layers of beautiful complexity. And I'm really, really so, so happy. Man, that's amazing.

Like it's especially to do do during a pandemic as well. Yeah, I mean, I think the pandemic is a bit subjective. You know, everybody had their own pandemic experience. You know, for me, it was, I've known Vailana for many years. So it was actually like, I don't know if our actions would have been that different. I mean, maybe a few more dinners out rather than cooking it all, but nonetheless when you get into this kind of, you know, passionate union, we were just going to be spending a lot of time together

anyways. Dude, I love it, man. It makes me happy to see you happy and it really does look like you are. Yeah. No doubt, man. No doubt. There's a video that I saw of yours a little while ago. I'm just going to read out a transcript that I pulled from it. I spent so much of my life terrified of what I was going to be coming, whether I was going to be right here right now. God, how much time did I waste? Afraid I wasn't going to be right here right now. If I could change, the only thing I'd change about my whole life would be fearing less that I wouldn't get here, the place that I was going anyway.

I wouldn't change all those mistakes and mishaps I needed those, but all the constant worry that I wasn't going to make it, that took me out of enjoying the moment, it took me out of enjoying these experiences, smiling or eating my lunch or doing whatever I was doing. Know your mission, have faith you're going to get there, wherever you go, it's going to be alright. Just find ways to get out of wherever you go, it's going to be all right. Just find ways to get out of your head. What's that mean to you? This is the constant, ever-present reminder advice that I give to myself. And as many times as I say it, I need to say it one more time because this is the task, this is the challenge. You know, I don't want to go to the end of my life and say,

I did a lot of good stuff, but I never really enjoyed any of it because I was always worried about the next thing that I did. And that's how I've lived so much of my life. It's always been about projecting my mind into the future, solving future problems, figuring out what I was going to do next, at the cost of really being present with what I was doing in the moment. Now, a lot of people might think that there's a trade-off, like it's one or the other. You're either just enjoying the moment and you're just blissed out like,

you know, somebody who's high looking at daffodils in the fucking field or something like that, you know, or you're really focused. But there's a way to be really present in the actions that you're doing. And I've been able to touch that thing and experience it in small doses. But I want to live that way. I want to still, of course, I'm going to be thinking about the future, thinking about what I can build, thinking about how I can contribute to the world. The world certainly needs it now more than ever. It feels like, but can I do that with my heart full and really present with what I'm doing rather than in anxiousness or fear or concern about whether it's going to work, whether I'm doing enough, all of these thoughts of the mind and just move forward with this kind of confident knowing that I'm

here, I'm doing my best and that's all that matters. And it's going to happen as it happens, which it always has. That's a thing. I'm batting a thousand. I've never struck out. I've always, whatever, even if I've made a mistake, even if I've fallen on my face, I've learned from it. It's all been perfect. But nonetheless, I look ahead to the future with this anticipation of maybe this time I'm going to fail and the failure is going to be the worst thing that's ever going to happen. It never is.

So, it's like getting out of these patterns and that's my, you know, that's my prayer. That's my daily constant reminder and prayer and I have to go back to it all the time. What do you think that comes from? Is it fear? It is fear. There's a deep, deep fear. I've recognized early on in my life that I had unbelievable potential and advantage. I mean, my parents were all exceptional in what they did. My father, a top commodities trader, my stepfather, a SWAT team squad captain, my mother, a professional tennis player, made it to the semi-finals of

Wimmelden, my stepmother, a top nutraceutical doctor who was working with Pat Riley's teams, like I had amazing mentors in my family. I had a lot of natural aptitude. I was speaking and using language at one year's old, and in a pretty astounding way. Like it just language came really easily to me. Way my mind worked, my body's been really healthy. I've always had so many advantages. And I've recognized that. And with that, I've realized like, I've got to do some fucking important shit.

You know, like, I don't want to squander this. And I really love, I love life. I love people, I love the world. So I love the world. I know what I'm capable of. And so the biggest fear comes, maybe I'm not going to do enough. I've been given. Yeah, exactly. I've been given all of these advantages, all of these blessings. I better do something fucking epic. You know, and maybe I won't, and maybe I'll fail.

And that's the that's the constant fear. I've gone into my own fear of death. You know, I wask has really helped me with that. And I don't believe death is anything like people think death is. It's just a transition to a really beautiful place. So I don't really worry about death so much. Of course, you know, I don't want death. I don't want to experience that. But what I'm really afraid of is I'm afraid of not doing enough. And that's the fear that I'm currently still, still,

fuck, still working on is like this really trusting that it's enough, whatever I do, it's enough. After the marriage, after the company sale, after the so on and so on and so on. Still there. The thing is there's no external satisfaction to this mental construct. There's nothing that I could do. I could literally come up with some philosophical treatise, some documentary or some book. And the book just is like a sonic boom

around the world and shifts consciousness radically. And I would still be like, ah, what's my next book? This isn't enough. It doesn't fucking matter, right? Like it doesn't matter. There is no satisfaction to this drive to do more and this fear that I'm not doing enough. So I have to go inside internally and and that's that's where the real work is. It's in the privacy of my own mind and heart because I'll

never and nobody can satisfy internal fears and desires with external realities. Well, that's what people presume, right? We look to the challenges and the inadequacies that we feel that we have and the validation that we think that we need and we look to the outside world, okay, well, if I can tick this box and this box and this box and this box, then maybe I'll finally feel like I'm enough or maybe I'll finally have confidence that I'm going to be able to continue and actually complete the things that I want to do. And yet, the adaptation is a hell of a drug man, like it just doesn't seem to slow down.

It just keeps on coming. No, no. Yeah, I mean, it's selling on it was a huge win. First of all, I built the company in my dreams. Can you explain for people that don't know what's happened recently, what's happened there? So 2010, I founded a company called Onnet, and the idea was total human optimization. It was about putting all of the best things you could into supplements and to functional

foods and then really bringing to the masses this idea of unconventional fitness, kettlebells, steel maces and steel clubs which come from 12th century Persia, and old training methods, and battle ropes, and all the different ways in which the body moves, like the body is designed to move, and then supporting it with these rare botanicals and nutritional herbs, and then bringing those to clinical studies to prove the efficacy, things that you could really feel.

And then more than that, just an ethos, an ethos about being a little bit better tomorrow than you are today. Like that was always the idea. Like we can strive for more, we can bring more out of ourself, become more capable, reach our potential. And no matter who you are or where you are,

like you can be on it. You can be the best version of yourself. And your best version is as good as anybody's best version. So it's really positive idea and also disruptive ideas about how to treat your customers. You know, we had a return policy where people didn't even have to send their product back. They could just be like, yo, I didn't like it. We'd give you your money back, like really honoring everybody with real reciprocity. Built that and took it as far as I could possibly take it until I couldn't take it any further myself and I recognized that and was able to exit and sell to a big global company called Unilever and they're going to take it global around the world already plans to really push on it into markets that we

just didn't have the capability to reach. So everywhere from, even it's odd, but like Australia and Canada, it's so hard to sell stuff there. Like it really is. Why? Well, there's the TGA, there are put good association in Australia, there's health Canada and Canada.

And then there's... Nation, each and then... Domain has a whole fucking massive thing. In Germany, you have to have a prescription to get vitamin C It's like it's like great like vitamins or prescription drugs in Germany. It's like very It's very complicated from a regulatory standpoint, but on it is a it's a Global disruptive movement. It's a movement and so like I couldn't take it any further. So you know these you know Our new our new acquirers can.

And so it was like an easy choice. Like, all right. And they've left the team entirely intact. It's still exactly the dream. You know, and also the massive resources that that's allowed me to have. So this whole process happens. And this is like, you would think

that after that I could be like and then Aubrey rested. No, not at all. We were like, how is it after the sale of money? I was like, I don't know how it's fucking stressful. I got all these resources now and I feel like I have to do 10 times as much because I have all of this potential to do even more and I'm fucking going crazy. And that's my own fault. You know, and so it's because it's just, I haven't escaped that kind of mindset. It's just as much as I'm capable of doing,

then my put pressure on myself to do even more. It's weird that when you have more fuel in the fire that it doesn't, it doesn't sort of make you calm down, it decides, okay, I'm just gonna build this bigger I'm going to try and get the rocket to go further. And there's almost a pressure around the fact that you feel like you need to do, you feel like you need to achieve with this, now that you have these extra resources. Because most people would think, you know, you wake up, you look at the bank account that morning, did you feel any different on the morning of the day that everything went through?

There was this sense of like holy shit, like it really happened, like it really happened. That was, that was real and that took a little while to integrate and set in, but I didn't give myself much time. I mean, it was, there's a lot of all, it's not like it's almost like there's pressure, there was mad pressure. Because first of all, I have all of this liquid resources. I've never had all of my real wealth was tied up in the stock and the equity and on

it, right? That was, I mean, I got paid from on it, but whatever, but that was, it was a different level. Now I have these liquid resources, like, okay, I got to figure out how to put these in safe places, you know like what am I gonna do with these So that was like a first little scramble where I'm like figuring all that out and then from there tons of you know tons of different charitable options things that I haven't been able to do Donating this to maps for this new study, donating this to this quiet group in Brazil that's really kind of holding the candle for an island of sanity and consciousness

that nobody knows. Like all these little from obscure to really present and kind of obvious ways to donate money. So there's been that whole rush and then there's been investments and different ideas and startups that I really believe in. And then there's just this idea of like, okay, now I have all of these resources. As you said, it's like, if I was, I don't like war analogies, but it's just the easiest to say. It's like, if I'm a general and my goal is to spread love to the world, I have now the resources like a, like one of those video games, like those sim video games where you

can like build your little. I love it. It was on the year. You've got the unlimited resources hack. Yeah, the exactly what do we want? Do you want tanks or dragons or draw bridges or fucking moats or like I have all these resources like I got a bill. I got a bill.

What am I doing? I got a bill. And so it's been an interesting time. What about the validation, the desire for validation? The last time that we spoke, there's this Navale Rava can't quote that came up that said, it is far easier to achieve your material desires than to renounce them. Is there an answered question for that with you now? Does it feel like there's any sort of a door closed at all?

The desire for validation for me was mostly with women, right? Like that was always the biggest hurdle. And I think it was one of the driving forces behind my desire to be in that polyamorous relationship before I got married was I had this insatiable desire to be loved by the feminine. And so one partner loving me was not enough, but maybe two partners loving me was enough. Well, that wasn't quite enough. But three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three know, the polyamory is really, really hard. And it's not because I did anything wrong. It's just, it's really hard.

It's really, really hard to manage all that. So it was a beautiful, it was a beautiful experience. And I wouldn't trade it for anything, but that was really where I was seeking validation the most. And I think one of the things that has really settled was, you know, my marriage with Vailana, that's that that she is my dream girl in every possible way. And so there's a whole area of my life where I'm like, okay, this thing, I did it. There's nothing more that I need to do, like I hit it, I nailed it, you know, and that's one of, at least in one area of my life,

this insatiable quest for more has been settled. It's been quelved. And with that, a lot of the need for validation. Now, it's not that I don't have some of that. You know, I mean, there's still a desire to be validated by my own standards of what I think I'm capable of. Right? So really I'm still fighting my own internal judge that's saying, are you doing enough? Are you doing enough? How about I don't know? You were you're watching a movie,

better bring your laptop out because you could do something while you're watching the movie, which is crazy, right? Just watch the fucking movie and do something later. But I still wrestle with that. Do you worry that now that you're in a relationship and that you're so happy? If you said that a lot of your motivation came from this desire for validation, you concerned that that's going to quench some of that fire? Well, it has. It has in a way. So that's a great question.

And I just want to take a moment to acknowledge your mastery as a podcaster because I do a lot of interviews for them. Really, that's a really good question. A lot of these have been really good questions. The thing is, is that a great part of my motivation for my life, for everything that I did, let me tell you, I'll start with a story. So I was such a frustrated romantic

for all my whole life, at least until I was 21, I started to have a little success, but up until 21, it was just a litany of rejection. Every girl I like, I would write them poems, I would make go to a glass blower and have them blow a glass rose and then be like, uh, thanks, you. And every single one I would like shower them with praise and love. Nobody really likes that at the start. I mean, there's a time and a place for that. But I was going in with too much niceness,

too much like, ah, I love you, right off the bat. And it was just constant rejection. Now, I had girlfriends, but they were always the ones that were like my buddies while I was going after the one that I really liked and then just be one. And they'd be like, hey, I like you. And I'm like, yeah, I guess I like you too.

You know, like I'm like, yeah. Yeah, so, I mean, they were great, but guess you're convening as well. Yeah, so I mean, they were great, but it was never the one that I really liked. And it's just constant, just constant rejection. And so I was 21, and this was before anything started to turn. And it was also frustrating because I was a star athlete. You know, I was always, I was like doing all of the things that I thought, like if you watch the movie Greece

or something, like I was like, fuck, I'm the guy. Like I'm capped into the team, you know, varsity three years, I'm crushing it and all of these, what's the problem here? How come I'm constantly getting rejected? So I go to, I go to this show in Vegas and it's based on the crazy horse in Paris. It was called La Fomme and it was at the MGM Grand and I'm 21 and I'm sipping on like some scotch and I'm watching this by myself and in Las Vegas.

And I'm looking at these incredibly beautiful dancers and it's like a burlesque show and they're doing this whole burlesque show with this projection mapping and lights and amazing show. And I just start crying in this like tears start coming down my face and I'm sipping my whiskey and I'm just making this solemn vow with the universe. I'm like, I will do whatever it takes to be the type of man that could ask one of these girls out and they would say,

yes, whatever it fucking takes. And it was this vow to be like the very best human that I could possibly be in every way. And, you know, from spiritual to physical to mental to emotional to financial to, you know, my prowess at large and I made this vow. but it was all, it was so that that mythical girl would say, yes, you know, ultimately. And so much of my entire life has been for that purpose. Like, everything, at least a little bit. Some of it is for the obvious, like, okay, I like being physically fit because I like to surf, I like to play basketball, I like to do all this. I like to, you know, build a business because I love the business. I love what I'm doing.

So there's a very pure motivation. And then there was also this internal desire to make myself more appealing to the opposite sex, always, always. So I had like two engines motivating me. One was my service to the world, my enjoyment of life, and the other was like, and whatever I do is going to make me more attractive so that I won't get rejected anymore. Double win. Double win, right? So, but one of those engines now that I've, and in polyamory, was the same. Both engines were firing because there was always, there was always

the potential for another paramour, another partner. So I get married, monogamous, my dream girl, that engine powers down. The engine that I've had my whole life, which is do more, be more awesome and girls will like you. Powered down. My wife loves me unconditionally. Like there's nothing I need to do. I mean, I'm going to do stuff anyways. I'm motivated. I have the other engine going to do stuff anyways. I'm motivated.

I have the other engine going, but that engine powered down. And there was a real vacuum. There was a real vacuum of like, whoa, I missed this. Like, I missed this drive that I had for trying to attract the opposite sex. I mix it. So what I've had to do is I've had to make the other engine more powerful.

I've had to really focus on how much I love the world and how compassionate I feel for the people who are suffering. And there's been some advice from Tom Bille, you recently, that's really helped. Instead of making it abstract, I love the world, which is really hard. The world is huge and complex and the brain doesn't work that way. Just think of one person. I love this one, you can create it as a real person or an avatar. Like I love this one person who feels alone trapped

in their mind, can't get through these mazes and puzzles and can't open their heart. And if I can deliver this message to them with my own heart, maybe they can find that piece and they can find that bridge to their own love or their own higher self and really just focusing on that. And so I've been in the process of really fueling and building this single engine and the engine of service, like really being of service and trying to get that to be as powerful as my twin engines. And that's been the process.

But it happened at the same time, right? So you had the marriage and within the space of a year, also the exit from on it. Yeah. So, I mean, from an existential crisis standpoint, I think this is about, this is like RX plus plus plus. This is the Super Navy SEAL SEAL Team 6 version. Yeah, this has been a massive year of transition. And I think there's, it's no accident that, you know, I've done Iowaska 25 times in my life or so, and nine of them have come in the last seven months.

You know, I've been, so I've, this is by far the most I've reached to the, to the plant allies. And I'm actually hiring a coach Now I'm never hired a coach. I've had a lot of mentors But I'm like fuck it. I need a coach like I need someone who can I can talk to every week and and really like help me sort through because It's it's very complex the other complexity is I feel like for most of my life The world was it had its problems, but it was just kind of moving along. It was just kind of trucking along and things weren't very prescient. It wasn't like urgent. And I could write a book about whatever I wanted to write

a book about. And people would benefit from it. I could put out stuff and it was just important, but it was an urgent. Now with what I see going on in the world, I feel like it's urgent. Like there's an urgency. So there's been this, all of this change, all of this opportunity and then this pressure of like the stakes have just been raised as well. The stakes have been raised. We're out of, again, I don't like war analogies, but it's like we were in peace time and now we're transitioning into wartime, a war for sovereignty and

consciousness and freedom and love and breaking these divisions that people have, which come from both sides, one side calling the other side sheep, the other side telling them that they're the unclean, unvaxed, gram-aw killers, like whatever. And both sides losing the humanity and the respect and the reverence for each other, whether it's black and white, left and right, you know, either way, it's this really kind of dangerous division that's happening in the world in my perspective at least. So it's like, fuck, I got to really step up now. So it's all of these things, all of my transitions, and then the pressure coming in from the world, that's been a cocktail of stress.

Man, I feel like too, with the show, with the messages that I get, you know, even in the time that I've been doing it, which is three and a half years, there's a difference, there's like a, there's a further, there's an intensity to some of the things that people say now, the desire for truth doesn't feel like an armchair philosophy luxury that people get to do is on a Sunday afternoon. It feels like a necessity. It's like water and an oasis type thing. People need guidance.

It really does feel like that. And then the thanks also feels more existential. It feels serious. And yeah, I think that you're right. I think that the stakes have been raised. And all of that together means you need to work out who the new version of you is. And I'm interested in what it means to let go of this old identity because not only privately, but publicly as well, sort of a lot of for a period of time, what you were was wrapped up in the polyamory thing. It was a very public relationship, or some of the relationships you've had in the past, were very public. And letting go of that, you were the forefront of on it. You know, you were the guy that drove it forward on the

Jorugan experience and talking about it. And then the podcast and all the pre-rolls, you know, anybody goes back and listens to an old episode of the podcast, it's you talking about the company that is your company, all of this, anything okay. So who's the new identity? And how do I let go of the old one? Have you had any thoughts about that? I really want to let go of the identity entirely and really touch it lightly. You know, I think Ramdha's such a great guide for our time, really one of the modern spiritual masters. A big

principle of his was becoming nobody, just becoming the force of life itself. And this is something that Don McGill Ruiz talks about as well, like his ideal is to just remain faceless, just be the energy and the emanation of life itself. Identity is useful, but it's also a trap. It's like a useful prison. And the Aubrey, the Aubrey, man, the Aubrey's fucking, it's tough. It's tough to be the Aubrey.

The Aubrey puts so much pressure on himself. The Aubrey's like, and it has so much projection coming from the world about what the Aubrey is. And I don't like being the Aubrey that much. I mean, it's great, but I like being life. I like being in the present moment. I can wear the Aubrey suit. I love the Aubrey suit.

It's a wonderful suit. You know, it's wonderful suit. It's a wonderful appearance of God and drag, right? I get it. I'm super happy with it and I've cultivated it and it has a lot of advantages. But nonetheless, it's still not fun for me to be obri. It's a lot more fun for me to be life expressed through the obri suit. Has that been released a little bit now that you don't have the excuse that you're the figureheads that's driving forward and trailblazing this company and growth and progression and more podcast plays because it drives more growth and more progression? I mean, I wish. I wish, but it's just shifted.

It's just chameleon. It's like it just adopted something new that it's going to pursue. Right. So instead of being the head, the CEO of on it, it's now the founder of on it with the amazing exit, like whatever. It's the same fucking thing. It's just a different hue of the same costume. In these medicine journeys, which has really been a deep part of my path for 22 years with the plant medicines, I escape the bounds of the obriness and I become life. And I feel like, fuck, my heart opens and I just feel in concert and connection with all of life.

It's not always comfortable. It's like breaking through all of these constricting, you know, the cells, like jail cells, like bursting through, like becoming life itself. And that helps. It helps like loosen the grip of what that Aubrey is. And so that's been a big part of the path. It's just like, okay, can I wear it lightly instead of having it sucked in and calcified and become like armor, like bone and callus, like wear it like a nice cloak. You know, like that's how I want to wear my identity because it doesn't really matter exactly externally. I have to really shift my own internal identity, like shift my identity to being the emanation of life itself, like really

just say, like, I'm life. And with that comes this amazing state of inner being because we're all life itself, you know, like you were me living a different life. You are life itself as well, and I am life itself. So we're inexorably on the same team. And that message, if I can, and I've really realized, like, I have to, if I live that, and if I can be that, my message to everybody, which is ultimately that, trying to tell people on both sides of the spectrum, you're like, listen, your life, their life,

we are all on the same team. Like, stop. You know, like, stop fighting. It's all one, one force of life. And the goal is to play the infinite game. Like, can we keep this game board where life can exist, alive and thriving and free as long as we possibly can? Like, that's what we should all be dedicated on team life for team infinite

game. It feels to me like when we're talking about energy internally versus persona, the external representation that we give the world, the persona kind of it iterates, right? It does calcify kind of like a crab shell and it's not as fluid as what happens inside. The person that you are is constantly changing. The person that you were yesterday and today is just slightly different, but the persona, it cracks and peels in big batches, right? It's completely flat for a very long time, and then something happens, and the pressure inside gets to the point where you go, I can't continue to wear this persona anymore. The what is happening inside is no longer congruent with what I am showing the world outside. And yeah, I think

that holding the persona lightly, that trying to seek validation from what you're putting forth into the world as opposed to who you are. One of my buddies was in Australia not long ago and he told me he's very successful guy on social media and he has a huge following. It's James Smith, people that are listening or know who it is, this big fitness guy. And he said he went on to a rock and he asked himself on some psilocybin and asked himself two questions and he said, do people love you for who you are or for what you do? There's a lot of people that love him for what he does, but he doesn't know how many people love him for who he is. him for what he does, but he doesn't know how many people love him for who he is. And that question seems to be the bifurcation, the dichotomy between essence and persona, like

outward representation of you that is kind of static and unchanging until you decide to crack it and then shed it and then go again, and then the inner version. And yeah, the more light that you can wear that, the fewer layers that your persona can consist of, I think that's probably a good way to go. And that question, the first person you asked that question to is yourself, do I love myself for who I am or do I love myself for what I do? Right, like you're expecting other people

to do something that you haven't done most of the time, right? You're like, I wish they would just love me for who I am. Meanwhile, I'm going to love myself for what I do. I can't work that way. And I'm in the same boat. You know, like I'm, I'm so much love myself for what I do. Like I do something that I feel is important and I'm like, nice fucking job. I love you. Meanwhile, I'm not, I'm in a different place. I'm the same essence of life, but I'm like, what are you doing?

Fucking, I haven't done anything in the last week. All you've done is blah, blah, blah. It's not enough. So really focusing that question internally and learning to love yourself for who you really are. There's a great affirmation that Paul Selig, who's one of my spiritual teachers, I've had on the podcast a few times, he has you say, I know who I am in truth.

I know what I am in truth. I know how I serve in truth. I am here. I am here. I am here. And you say that. And it's this activation of like, okay, in truth. I know who I am. I know what I am here, I am here, I am here. And you say that and it's this activation of like, okay, in truth, I know who I am, I know what I am,

I know how I serve, and I am here. And it's this claiming, this I am claiming like, no, I am here as the essence of life, as the monad, the divine spark, and really practicing that and loving that, because that is the thing that doesn't change. You can't be, no one can shoot an arrow at that, no one can cast aspersions that you can't cancel got, you just can't. Good luck. That's the reality and that's the place of ultimate safety. That's the rock, that's the castle, that's the impenetrable

place because nothing can touch that thing. And so if you can learn to love that, then you can move through life from a place of love. What I like about that is thinking about the fact that how self-barating we can be when we don't feel like we've achieved something. The lack of love that we have for ourselves, if we've done the evening on the couch and haven't taken the laptop to answer the emails as they've come in or you know, decided to take a long weekend off and didn't do work or whatever it might be. But it's so, it's so fickle. It's like we're on a knife edge. Our view of ourselves and the love that we have for ourselves is so it shouldn't be that fragile. It shouldn't be that your actions within the last 36 hours significantly determine your judgment of your own self-worth. Like that shouldn't be the case and yet it absolutely

100% is for me. Absolutely is. If I've had, if the last podcast that I've done is awesome, I'm patting myself on the back. I feel like I'm on top of the world. I'm really confident. I'm going into the next one. I'm gonna get it. This is the right path. This is what I'm doing.

I'm really improving. And then if the last one that I did was poor, it's fuck, like self-doubt creeps in. Impostor syndrome keeps in. Lack of confidence creeps in. And you think this is not sustainable. It isn't sustainable for my self worth to be hinged on the last success I've failed that I decided. The last time that I stepped onto the pitch did I win lose or draw,

and then that determines the way that I'm going to feel for the remainder of whatever. And this has been the same throughout, it doesn't matter what level you get to or what game you're playing with this, whether it was for me the club promotion game. If the last event that we ran was huge and sold out and everybody loved it and there was no problems, they're brilliant, I felt great.

But if the last event that we did was a little bit under budget and we didn't make the money that we wanted and I got complaints and there was bad reviews on Facebook in 2013 when Facebook was a big deal, I'd feel crap. So this is just, it's the same game ported onto a new console now, you know, or it's the same set of rules, but just in a different game. And it can't be like that. It doesn't scale. It is not a replicable, healthy, holistic way to exist. And, you know, I think one of the reasons we change is we suffer until we get sick of suffering.

This is a form of suffering. Like eventually, we just get so fed up with doing this. Like I fucking can't handle this anymore. I'm done with it. And then you have to forge the new way. It's hard to do it just out of inspiration. Like somebody listening right now who's young and been in this a little while

and hasn't really tortured themselves that much yet. You know, they're like, that's a cool idea. But for us, they're just battle weary and haggard. Like, the fuck? How many times am I gonna do this? How many times am I gonna feel like shit? I'm fucking tired of it. You know, like we suffer until we get sick of suffering. But you're absolutely right. They have that

saying, you know, you're only as good as your last game. And I think they're referencing what the fans are thinking of you, right? And it's true. Like you have an athlete has a shitty game and all of a sudden all the pundits are like, what's wrong with them? Bala, blah, blah. Did he do this? What is what's going on and then they then they play well and they're like he's back. We love him again. You mean you're fucking bro to view. Yeah, how fucked is that but we do it to ourselves just like he said like this is this

idea that we project on to what the fans do which they do we do the same thing. You are the shitty puns of course. You're so known. You're a shitty pun. You're so own shitty pun. Yes. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Fuck, man.

Yeah, I am. That's a really interesting insight. It really is. I think having a more robust stable foundation would do a lot of people a lot of good. Because what you end up doing is you end up performing for the critic. You end up proving the critic wrong as opposed to trying to do the thing that you're supposed to be doing. And you end up having these perverse incentives. The incentive

that the person trying to disprove the critic wrong does is, I'll work harder, I'll do more, I'll go bigger, or whatever, whatever I think the fucking tonic to this poison is, I'm gonna keep on drinking it, and you're like, no, no, no, no, no, you've now turned the tonic into a poison as well. Like you have managed to create a system in which you are self-referentially becoming some fucking self-fulfilling prophecy version

of what you didn't want to be be and you're your own torturer. I've got a buddy who's in a band, one of his lyrics is, I can't drown my demons, they've learned how to swim. And that's what happens when you've pushed for so long that you've actually become your own shitty pundit. I'd love to have that saying, man. I'd love that same man. I try to mind dreaming of my demons. I learned that swim. Yeah, that's the, you got to change the pool. You got to swim in a place, you got to go to a different place. Like that's the, that's

reality. It's the shift of identity is radical and it's painful because it requires, it requires you to... So think of the ego like an entity. It's like a real entity. And for those of us in the medicine space, we have this kind of idea of entities, these astral beings that come and talk to us or whatever. But imagine it's like that or think of it like a ghost. And what powers the ego entity is your identification with it. When you choose to be it, it has life.

It exists. And it's real. It's really real. And it wants to stay alive. It wants you to identify with it, because it wants to live. All entities want to live. But we are their respiration, our belief and our identification. It's the respiration, it's the only way that it lives.

So the moment that we pull our identification away from our ego, from our identity, it starts to freak out. It's like gasping for air, like a fish out of water. I'm going to die. I'm going to die. And so what does it do? This is resistance. This is capital R resistance. Like Stephen Pressfield talks about this is the the Yitzahara, like the, you know, the mystical, in mystical Judaism, this force of resistance. And it'll drive you into fear or it'll come up with something. I mean, I watch my own ego do this, as I retract.

Every time I go and do I ask, my ego fucking freaks out. This entity freaks out, because it knows it's going to get obliterated, at least temporarily. So it starts going crazy. It starts like, the phenomenon in psychology is called intrusive thoughts. I start getting these rapid fire intrusive thoughts. Like, go jump off that bridge and smash this glass. It's not schizophrenia. People with schizophrenia have, right? And that's a very extreme schizophrenia is painting a reality. That's actually, you know, a belief in a different reality. I thought intrusive thoughts of just...

Of schizophrenia was intrusive thoughts. I think it was uncontrolled in trusive thoughts. I might be totally wrong here. Maybe. What I understand of intrusive thoughts is they're quick and what I experience is they're quick rapid fire thoughts that actually drag me out of the present moment. It's like, take this bottle and smash it on the desk. I'm like, why am I thinking about that?

You know, like, take your phone and throw it into the jungle. You know, like, I'm like, no, I thinking about that? You know, like, take your phone and throw it into the jungle. You know, like, I'm like, no, I don't want to do that. You know, like, it'll be all of these like little random thing. And then it only happens when I'm about to do I waska, right? It's like, and finally I realized, like, oh, I understand. This is the ego entity trying to distract me. So I get like, I get lost from this place of like release. And this is, this is a force.

And so with that though, but with that awareness, it doesn't bother me. I'm like, okay, I understand baby. Like I understand little ego entity. Like I know you're trying to distract me by telling me to create a shank made out of glass. Like I get it. You know, I get it. I get it. It's all right. And then it starts to like slow down. But that's the reality of our ego construct, our persona.

This identity, we create this avatar of this self that we created. It's alive when we identify with it. But as soon as we start to pull away from it, it starts to die and it starts to freak out. It'll never actually fully die. You know, you'll always have it, but the transformation, this is where the myth of the phoenix comes in. You burn it down and then a new bird emerges from the ashes. And I think that's the best we can do, but holding again, that's why allowing this current construct to die, knowing that another one will rebuild. Until eventually, you're just in a closet of identities. Which coat do I want to put on? And you're just really comfortable because you, who you are, is beyond identity. And that's really the place that I'm reaching is, and it's been, it's been hard recently. I mean, this last I wasca journey was the hardest I've ever had because I think

my ego got to a place where it was like the most tenacious. It really liked its current persona and form, and it really didn't want to go. And so I really had to like, it was really wrestling with me. And finally, in the last ceremony, it was absolute obliteration and death. And then a new, a new forum is now still emerging. It's still building. And I'm a little shaky. And I'm a little, I mean, things are like, I feel a little vulnerable. Like, because the, this persona is helpful.

It's also an armor. It's also like a way to navigate life. You know, and it creates this thing and it also is a way to it's just a way to navigate the world and this new thing that I'm forming like this new spaceship of ego identity hasn't been fully formed yet. So I'm in kind of this interesting place. I appreciate it. But um, but I think that's the process. It's just dying, be reborn, dying, be reborn constantly. How do people know if they're ready for plant medicine? Let's say that there's someone who's listening

who is familiar with breathwork practices and meditation, and they've done level zero, as Dan Engle would say, right? They've done the buy-in. What would be some of the signs that people should be looking out for to suggest, well, maybe this is the sort of thing that would be assisted by some plant medicine? Well, the traditional answer is that there's a calling. There's just a feeling that you have. There's a part of you that is just irresistibly attracted to these medicines.

But it's really hard to describe it further than that. Then you get the question, well, what is the calling? How do I know if I have a calling? Because it's simultaneously you're going to have resistance. So there's going to be an attraction and then there's going to be resistance. What's that? Is that a sign that you shouldn't do it because your body's telling you know maybe or is it just the natural resistance and you really want to say yes?

I think the best way is to just have courage to continue to continue to lightly step forward that way. I mean, you can just jump jump in the deep end and book a book and I will ask a trip with the with the dragon or you know go do some big salmon. I highly recommend if you're gonna do anything big do it with the best of the best like really find a world-class sitter, shaman, practitioner that you can sit with. But otherwise just kind of creep your way, creep your way towards it. And I think, again, escalating those breathwork practices,

there's a guy, I think the best breathwork practitioner that I know of is guy named Lucas Mack, LUKIS, M-A-C, and I sat with him and did some breath work. There's ways to take breath work really deep, like really deep, you know, where it's beyond level zero, you're going into the real, real level. So like take that really far and then start creeping into different, different plan allies. Ketamine is an interesting one to start with, you know, if you get it's now legal in the US, it's a good way to just kind of feel the bounds of selfhood dissolve and start to experience the void in a somatic way, and it's very

comfortable, typically. Now, it's not. So that's like an interesting way to creep in, like a hundred milligram fast dissolve of ketamine, like, all right, let's just like creep into this and one of the best combinations of medicine actually I think it's my current favorite combination of plant medicine or psychedelics is ketamine and cannabis together both legal and most places in the US, but that stack It feels like it brings the body into the void where ketamine is taking you. And it's a really, really interesting experience. It doesn't last too long. You just have, you don't, and don't overdo it.

You know, have like one puff of flour, a hundred milligrams, some great music. You know, John Hopkins has a new album that's coming out called Music for Psychedelic Therapy. It's fucking stunning. East Forest has some amazing music. Put on some good music. Get a blindfold. Get a mindful. You want a mindful blindfold. It's one where you can open your eyes and it's still completely black. So get one of those.

Get some good headphones and just like ease into it if you're going to do it on your own. And that's a good way to start. And then you can also do a psilocybin journey with someone who's had some experience. Like if you know someone like you or I, you know, who's been in this a lot, like, but start small, you know, like don't fucking, don't try to burn the house down right out of the, right out of the gate.

Just kind of like minimum effective dose. Get comfortable with it. And I think that would be the way to go. And if you feel called for more, like, all right, I'm into this. Like, I'm fucking into this. Just don't be in a hurry. You know, I guess would be my advice is just kind of tiptoe your way through. You have your whole life. You know, you don't need to, you don't need to rush into anything. And if you do feel like just dive in in because you just can't handle it anymore, really go for the best of the best.

You like, is it Soltara? That's one of the places that you tend to go to. Soltara, I think, is practicing at the highest level. I actually flew in my very first shaman for a private retreat. His name is Maestro Orlando. You can check him out in Peru. He's actually, I built a redrack for his site, Maestro Orlando.com. His nickname is El Dragón de la Séla, the dragon of the jungle.

And he's the best shaman, I think, that I mean, he's the best shaman I've ever encountered. I mean, I've been with some amazing shaman. Mystrol, Berto is also an absolute wizard, like incredible. And he has a new center that's opening up as well. But for me, working with myestro Orlando is just the best. However, Sotara has amazing Shepibo healers.

And the Shepibo style is, it's a unique style, it's a very traditional ancient style that's been brought forward, and it's also stunning. So, but I really trust Sotara, I really do. And I've sat with the Shapiro healers there, my Estra Marina and my Stratel, or the people that I work with there, beautiful ceremonies, really beautiful,

impeccable ceremonies, and great facilitators, great facilities at Soltara. I highly, highly recommend for anybody who's looking, like check out Soltara, I think they're the best in the game right now. I love it, man. Looking back at your period of non-monogamy now as a happily married man, woman of your dreams, does that reframe that sort of experience? Do you have a different sort of view of non-monogamy generally now?

Was it just part of a journey? Where's your headspace out with that? It's, it was definitely part of a journey. It was definitely part of like a deep learning practice. I mean, we all have jealousy to a certain extent. You know, it's just inherent. And if you think you're not jealous, I dare you to get into a non-minogamous relationship where your sweetheart is getting fucked by somebody else and you're home alone and just imagining what's happening. If you can do that,

like, fuck and get an osherom somewhere. I don't know. I don't know what it takes to be able to handle that. But, you know, so you really confront the dragon. You confront the dragon of your own jealousy. Like the thought of me being jealous in my current relationship now with Vailana is absolutely preposterous.

Because I've lived in the worst case scenario. You know, like I've lived the absolute nightmare of, you know, jealousy so many times that I'm liberated from that. It's just not in the spectrum of possibility of what I would actually worry about. That's one of the beautiful things that you'll get from it. That's what happens when you go head first into your deepest fears or your deepest challenges. It's like the ayahuasca of jealousy. You're fucking, you're in it.

So that's beautiful. It's also beautiful that I mean, I got to experience so many amazing people. And actually, I was only able to meet my wife and become friends because I had the freedom of a non-menogamous container. Like, if I wanted to go out on a friend date or whatever with Vailana, I like, there was never any question because I had multiple other girlfriends. So it's not like there was an issue, you know, like, I was really free. So I think it's a great path to overcome jealousy.

It's also a great path. If you're not quite sure, I loved Whitney a lot, but it something wasn't just quite right You know, she's amazing Whitney's fucking incredible But it wasn't quite right for either of us and we've both actually Subsequently after since splitting, you know, we're still friends, but both of us have really come into our own in a beautiful way She's a country singer now, and she's like using her voice and she's recording songs and songs are amazing. And I've always wanted her to sing, but in our relationship, that never emerged. There was ways in which we weren't clicking for each other's

future. So the fact that we chose non-monogamy was perfect because we were both free to explore different people and learn different things. It was beautiful. I got to meet some amazing, amazing humans, you know, Stephanie and Savannah and Maya and so many like awesome people that I'm just so grateful that I got a chance to experience. So that, you know, those are the benefits of it. We also made a lot of mistakes. One of the things that non-monogamy requires is perfect blisteringly honest communication. Like any little way in which you're withholding the truth becomes explodes into a nightmare. So it's also great for practicing your honesty. Like you really have to, if you have feelings for somebody or you think something,

you feel something, you have to express it because the only safe place you have is the truth. And as soon as the truth gets a little twisted, everything is in question and nothing makes sense and you're just lost. So it's kind of a forging process. Can I see it as a viable long-term solution? I can, but it requires the very best. It requires a group of people who are at their operating at their very best in heart and mind and spirit. And I think it can be a really beautiful, sacred, non-monogamous union. I was never quite good enough, to be honest.

I was never able to really get there. And I tried hard, eight years, and I gave it everything I got. I was not the type of person that was capable of holding that indefinitely. I never transcended my jealousy. I never got to the place of compulsion, which is getting pleasure from someone else's pleasure. Sustainably, you know, like if Whitney is having an orgasmic blissful experience with another lover, I was never like, oh, babe, I'm so happy

for your orgasmic blissful experience. Oh, are those handprint bruises on your ass? It must have been passionate, passionate when he was spanking you that hard. I'd love that you were that into it with him. No, I was never like that. I wanted to vomit. I just, I couldn't do it.

You know, so, but that doesn't mean that it's not possible to do. you know, it doesn't mean that My failures mean that the the whole construct is flawed because I think the construct is beautiful But for me it was just too hard I think there's definitely a difference in my mind between using it as a tool to prepare yourself for a potential future relationship and attaching your colors to the mass poll and saying, right, this is me for the remainder of time. In my experience, spending a lot of time around a lot of people, you need to be an incredibly

unique individual for that to be the right path for you to go down long term. I mean, even for you to go down it for two weeks, you need to be a pretty unique individual. But for you to be able to look back after potentially an entire lifetime of non-monogamy and say, yes, that was the right choice. I think that you have to be very, very, a significant outlier. And I also think that there's probably far fewer people than actually think it. And what's reassuring to hear,

what's kind of nice to hear from yourself is that look, like this is something that you can perhaps consider or try a look at, but it's not for life. You're not married to the nonmenogamy for life. You know, if you want to bail out, if you want to make an exit plan at some point, you can do that. One thing that had in my mind is it... You've mentioned about the fact that the jealousy was something one of the key emotions

that you struggled with, and that this was kind of like exposure therapy for jealousy turned up to a million. Is there any part of you that has echoes of that because that can be so traumatic to the point where. It starts to embed a habit it starts to embed a routine that the jealousy actually starts to rear its head and it's got all of this. that the jealousy actually starts to rear its head and it's got all of this foundation and this power and this velocity behind it because look at all of the things that you've done in the past. Do you ever notice that?

Do you ever feel that? You know, the thing about it is the jealousy, I think jealousy becomes really toxic when it's imagined, right, like imagined jealousy. You're just thinking and you're waiting for this dishonest way in which someone is betraying you. Is that because you didn't know? Do you think that's because of the shame or the guilt around the fact that you know that it's there's part of it that's not true and that there's almost a little bit of it that's making it

your fault? If the jealousy doesn't actually exist, if there's no real reason for it to be there, the shame because it's you that reason for it to be there, the shame because it's you that's causing it. Yeah, I think that's a factor. I also think that that's the difference between polyamory and just a regular relationship where you're jealous. A lot of times in a regular relationship

where you're jealous, you're just creating all kinds of fantasies of things that are not real. And so you pattern this fantastical creation of these jealous circumstances. You know, this is what you see all the time. Were you looking at that girl? Where do you have, what are you doing with that trainer?

You know, like, do you like him? You're like, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, no, he's just my friend like, blah, blah, blah. So you're creating all these fantasies. The beauty of what I experienced was it was all real. Like she was really having blissful orgasmic experiences with men for real and would tell me about it, as you know, who's were honest.

And then she was really falling in love with her boyfriend, Ricky, and really, like, all of these things were really happening. So while it was hard, it was honest. And I think anything that's hard and honest is productive and not traumatic. It's just productive, right? It's just it's kind of like going into a sweat lodge. I don't know if you've ever done like a really intense temescal or sweat lodge. No. Pitch dark, you know, you're in there three hours, no water. It's just prayers and heat in their pouring water on these steaming rocks. And you feel at certain points if it's a hard

lodge, like, I don't know how I'm going to survive this. Like, I don't know. This is so hot, and I'm so thirsty, you know, and I'm like just overwhelmed with this. And if you're with a real master, they know where the edge is and they never obviously push it. And of course, you could wave the white flag, they're like, I'm not, and they always make allowances for that because it can be dangerous. But ultimately, that's a super challenging experience. But you never leave that traumatic. You leave that exhilarated because it's honest. You chose it. You know what it is and you endure it and you come out and you're like rebirth from the fire. And that's kind of the way that it is with polyamory. It's like, it's real. It's like a sweat lodge. Like,

you know, you know when your partner is with that other person. You know, and you know what's happening. And what's happening is worse than you hope, but not as bad as you fear, right? Always, always. That's like the universal rule. It's worse than you hope, but not as bad as you fear, but that's where it's gonna, that's what's happening. And so it's intense, but it's not traumatic. What's traumatic is, is like discovering an adultery.

You know, like my wife, my wife had a lot of trauma. Not she was not, she was monogamous. But on two of her birthdays, she found out that her boyfriend had impregnated another woman that he was seeing on the side. The same boyfriend. Two different ones. Two different boyfriend, both on a birthday.

Both on her birthday. It's fucking fun. What are the fucking chances of that? That's for my darling. That's for my darling. Yeah, both on a birthday. Both on her birthday. It's fucking fun. What are the fucking chances of that? That's for my darling. That's for my darling. Yeah, I've been birthday. I'm not gonna be here because I'm getting an abortion with this other girl that you didn't know I was seeing.

Fuck, you know, like that's where the trauma comes from. Like that's what imprints like deep trauma. Because of the lack of truth. Whereas if it's, yeah, it's the lack of truth. Whereas the other thing is just, it's just a really difficult initiation. And that's kind of how I feel. So I actually look back at that as hard as it was.

I look back at that and there's like a sense of, almost a sense of pride. Like, yeah, I fucking did that. You know, I did that. I tossed and turned and I wrestled in my bed and I puked and I cried and I prayed to God and I made it through and I did it. Fuck yeah. It's like running an ultra marathon.

It's hell, but I never run one, but I can imagine. I don't like running two miles, let alone fucking a hundred. But it's the same thing. It breaks you down, but you're proud. You're proud that you went through it because you knew what you were doing and you just, you did it. At the time was it ever in your head that you were doing

something to become ready for this sort of woman that you wanted to spend the rest of your life with? No, because I didn't think the woman that I wanted to spend the rest of my life with existed. I thought maybe it was Vailana, but she never really gave me any indication that she was interested in that type of relationship until she did. I thought like, maybe, but I didn't know her that well, intimately. I knew her as a friend, but there was still a lot of boundaries,

you know, that she always had. She was very loyal to the people she was seeing. And so I thought like, look, here's my options. Either I compromise with one person, or I just stay non-monogamous, continue to work on my jealousy, get to be with a bunch of different beautiful people, and I get to experience life. And my sacred union is with the great beloved, like Rumi talks about, like all of creation, woman with a capital W embodied in many different women. I really believe that was my future. And actually, interestingly, I think I finally got to the place, like right before Vailana and I got together, I was like, I think I did it. I'm fucking happy. I'm happy. You know, I didn't mind that Whitney was in love and seeing your guys still.

I really didn't bother me that much. She would go on dates and we'd laugh about it and I had a bunch of different dates that I was going on and I was like, I think I made it. I think I fucking made it. And then Vailana came in and I was like, Oh my God, this is the path for me. So it took me by surprise. I just didn't want to ever compromise. You know, I never wanted to compromise. And Vailana was the absolute, there are no compromises. It's like I had a bingo card with a hundred different squares and the balls kept coming out and I hit every single one, 100 out of 100 and I'm like, whoa, I didn't think that was possible,

but it was, it was for me. And I don't know if it is possible for everybody. The reason that I say it is, I've been thinking a lot recently, talking to some friends about sort of becoming the man that you want your future wife to fall in love with, you know, creating the life that you want to bring your children into the world for, being in the place, doing the work with the

people, with the connections, with the skill set, with the mindset, with the balance, with the understanding of yourself, and so on and so on. And it seems to me that as people get married or make commitments to their life partners later and later, this is a luxury that we now have. And this is one that I don't really hear very many people talking about. The opportunity to not only treat your 20s and whatever period up until you finally find the person you want to be with as time to explore and learn about you and work out who you are, but also to become the person that you want that family to be built upon, especially as a man, right?

You know, sort of loaded up on my back, like I'll continue carrying, like put more on, put more weight on, put more weight on. It's like, well, if you haven't spent sufficient time being able to build up your tolerance you're not going to be able to bear a very heavy load and Yeah, I wonder I think there's something there. I think there's something there Four men in a crisis of masculinity age To think okay, maybe you're not getting married at 19 to the daughter of next door's farmer, like any more, maybe that's not happening.

But if you are a romantic, if you do want to lead a life and service of a family, if you know that you want to be a father, if you know that you want to be the head of a household, a leader, somebody that other people can look up to, part of your local community to have impact, both locally, familiarly, familiarly, whatever, family, and in terms of your work and your contributions there, if you want to do that, you can spend your time preparing for that. You can spend time becoming that sort of person, being able to bear the load that you know eventually one day you're going to have to carry. I don't really hear, I haven't really heard much about that. And it seems to me, although it wasn't done, it definitely wasn't planned that way in that, as you've just said, like just as you thought, you got it all sorted out. Someone came in and sidelined you

and articulated Laurie and completely fucked it all up again. Right, going in a different direction now. But it certainly seems to me sort of reflecting on the non-monogamy period, it looks like fucking prep school, prep school for marriage. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. I mean, I think we need to do, we have a very

comfortable life. We need to do hard shit. We need, if we want to be the man that can really hold as an anchor and as a pillar in our family, we need to do hard shit. Polyamory is one of the hard things. And people don't really get it. But like to get the benefit of polyamory, like there's the man's fantasy, right? Like, oh, you get to be with a bunch of girls. I'm like, yeah, I do. But I also, all of these girls that I have deep love and feelings for, they get to be with whoever the fuck they want. And I don't get to say no. You know, like, that's the work. That's where you're really in it. And I think that's a hard thing.

And that hard thing forges you. Like this is the iron, the sharpened iron. This is the pressure in the heat that makes diamonds. And it's just one of the ways. You know, I think the plant medicine path is another way. There's so many other ways that you can do athletics, doing hard things for your body, even a consistent cold plunge practice. Talk about just something daily that you can do where you look at that cold plunge and

you don't go like, yeah, but you walk in like a fucking king as a child's eyes and science says, you say you look at that cold plunge and you walk in like a king. You know, none of this like, oh, it's cold. Let me just know you walk in and you step in like a king and you drop down and you submerge and you start your breathing. You do it. Like these things, these things are all forging practices and they make us who we are so that we're able to walk

into those challenges and those difficulties because they're all gonna come. You know, whether it's you're in a business and everything goes into chaos some crazy shit happens and You know you have to fucking deal with deal with the surprise element You know I remember I remember one story from on it is So before we produce you know our flagship

Supplement was alpha brain and one of the ingredients in alpha brain is a greeting called oat straw. And it actually comes from oats and a venus ativa. And so the oats that we were getting were next to a horse farm. And so they, the horses, they're in that farm, I guess some of them were race horses. And so ultimately we didn't really understand what that meant. And I was like, all right, whatever. So we tested the ingredient as it came in. And there was horse steroids in our oedstraw. And this was a massive,

like this was going to like kink up all of our production for like a long time. And there's fucking horse steroids in our own straw, right? Because people were giving the horse steroids and they're pissing in the water. And it was getting to the oats. And I was like, what the fuck? You know, and this is all this chaos. Like we're going to be out of stock and alpha brain. Like did any of this other, we had to go test the performer batches.

We're horse steroids in our old batches fortunately it wasn't because we test you know currently but is these in that chaos situation where everything's normal everything's normal everything's normal fuck there's horse steroids ingredient what the fuck you know this happened so you got to go into that fire and it's just put it's just like can I be as like, can I be as the leader? Can I be the one that goes into that and it just like holds everything until it's all sorted

and it's all done. And then like three days later, as everything's kind of sorted out, then you can start laughing. You're like, fucking horse steroids. Like, you're kidding me? I can't believe that. But you know, it's just one example of like,

life is gonna throw chaos. There's just chaos around and are you gonna be ready for that? In your business, in your family, and one of the ways that you're ready for that is just to emerge intentionally into the chaos, and the difficult things, and the things that make you the type of person that can handle whatever comes at you.

Paul Brehmakis, ladies and gentlemen, you've got a new book coming out, what's happening with that? Hypothetically, I got a new book. You're up and right, if you write the fucking thing, then you'll be able to release it. Thanks, you're right. Yeah, it's a really important book. It's called Master Your Mind, Master Your Life.

I've pushed off the release multiple times and I'm about to push it off again, just because it's a very complicated book because trying to separate the mind from anything else is an impossible task. There's the mind and then there's the body. Really, well the body informs the mind in such an inexorable way and the mind informs the body. Can you really call them separate things or are they the same thing? Is it just a different density of mind? So you start going deeper and it's deeper, like, oh, in the mind and the spirit, really? Mind and the spirit? Where's the

fucking line that you draw there? It's not. Everything is blurred. So ultimately coming to this idea that you can either look at it, you can really look at the mind like everything is mine. There's just different condensations and densities of how the mind operates. So really unpacking that and then finding the ways to navigate with all of the different articulations of mine. So I've really been in the work, you know, really making sure that I get this thing right? There was a lot of hubris when I when I you know basically proposed the book Master your mind master your mind, master your life. Alright, I'll write a book around the most complex organ that we've got in the inside. Exactly. Exactly. So I'm in it. Just that's all I can say is I'm fucking in it.

And when it's done, it's going to be awesome. But I'm not going to, I'm not going to put something out until I know, and I know that it's the, it's the right thing to put out. Cool. Aubrey Marcus podcast on Apple Podcasts. A Spotify, wherever else people listen and at Aubrey Marcus on Instagram. Brother, thank you. Thank you brother. This was amazing.

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