Modern Wisdom - #412 - Zack Telander - Doping Scandals & Olympics Corruption

Episode Date: December 18, 2021

Zack Telander is a weightlifter, coach & YouTuber. ZT joins me to discuss my recent trip to Nashville to see Mikhaila & Jordan Peterson, why I think Canada has committed an act of international sabotage by poisoning me, the International Olympic Committee's newest bombshell threat to the entire weightlifting world, why corruption is so rampant in weightlifting, what Zack thinks can be done about drugs in sports and much more... Sponsors: Join the Modern Wisdom Community to connect with me & other listeners - https://modernwisdom.locals.com/ Reclaim your fitness and book a Free Consultation Call with ActiveLifeRX at http://bit.ly/rxwisdom Get 20% discount on all pillows at https://thehybridpillow.com (use code: MW20) Get 20% discount on the highest quality CBD Products from Pure Sport at https://bit.ly/cbdwisdom (use code: MW20) Extra Stuff: Subscribe to Zack's YouTube Channel -https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC94_fvLx7abZgs9LIkM7jxw  Get Zack's Program for $1 - https://www.patreon.com/zacktelander Follow Zack on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/coach_zt Get my free Reading List of 100 books to read before you die → https://chriswillx.com/books/ To support me on Patreon (thank you): https://www.patreon.com/modernwisdom - Get in touch. Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chriswillx Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/chriswillx YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/modernwisdompodcast Email: https://chriswillx.com/contact/  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What's happening people? Welcome back to the show. My guest today is Zack Talander. He's a weightlifter, coach and a YouTuber. And he rang me yesterday in a frenzy about some Olympics corruption and doping scandals. So we thought we'd do a podcast about it. Also, get to talk about my trip to Nashville to see Michaela and Jordan Peterson. Why I think Canada has committed an act of international sabotage by poisoning me. The International Olympic Committee's newest bombshell threat to the entire weightlifting world. Why corruption is so rampant in the sport of weightlifting.

What Zach thinks can be done about drugs in sports and much more. Quite a surprising number of people happy about the prospect of joining a cult the other day. I mentioned that modern wisdom is kind of like a cult and it seems like that really resonated with everyone. Eddie Jones episode and the Vincent Haranam episode this week has been fire. It all of December has been awesome. So thank you to everyone who has joined a cult who has decided to co-opt in. If you've got the tattoos, if you've joined the commune, if you've taken the LSD, you are welcome here. This is a safe place for you. And I will see you soon as we ascend to the heavens. Also, I have put together the Modern Wisdom Annual Review Template, which is the exact process

I use at the end of each year to learn the lessons from the previous one and make plans for the next one. A lot of people want to do an interview review but don't have a process that they can follow. So I've just recreated mine, which is an amalgamation of a ton of other people's practices and strategies which I've picked up from over the years. And that will be available very soon. It'll be on the website, chriswelex.com.

It'll be there soon. Just keep your eyes peeled on my Instagram and on the pre-roll to the next couple of days podcasts and you'll find out where you can get your copy. It'll be totally free and it'll hopefully help you round out this year well and begin 2022 very nicely. But now it is time for Zach Talander. Panda, look at the show. Thanks for having me, Vakras. What's happening, man? You look serious. You're a serious human today. No, I'm, you know, normal stuff in my neck of the woods, weightlifting is going through.

It's potential death penalty. But beyond that, it's pretty great day. Well, we're in the same city and we've decided to do this over the internet. Like, we could be, no. I could shout it out if the window. We could just do it that way. Yeah, I'll see you tonight, man.

Yeah, got you later on. Let's do this, let's do this unrecorded later. But I have had 48 hours from hell with this. Jordan Peterson fucking infected me, gave me a stomach, he poisoned me, that man. Was it Jordan Peterson or was it a Chicago style hot dog from the Chicago airport? I'm blaming it on Jordan Pete.

I'm thinking that Canadian, this is an act of war from the Canadians against Britain. I was fucking polite motherfuckers. I don't know. So I thought that I'd eaten a dodgy hot dog, and that was what it caused me to wake up at three in the morning on Monday after I'd spent the weekend in Nashville with Jordan and Michaela with just vomiting, sat on the

toilet for like 12 hours, just hadn't been that bad in. Dude, I threw everything I had at that illness. I was doing breath work, I was doing mindfulness practices against it, and I'm pretty sure that I prayed at one point. Like, I'm like, just putting on my knees to a higher power. I've got the cushion on the floor. You were praying to the porcelain god, that's for sure. Correct, correct. I just wanted it to end.

So I thought it was this dodgy hot dog that I'd had at Chicago Airport and then Michaela messages me on Tuesday morning, oh my god, Chris, what have you done to us? Everyone in the house is really, really sick. So the only person, suspiciously, the only person out of the entire group that was out over the weekend that isn't ill is Jordan. So I am classifying that as an act of war. Can I be honest with you? I'm actually really relieved. It wasn't the Chicago style hot dog. Is that your hometown, right?

Yeah, well, because like if you and I ever go to Chicago and you're like, nope, no hot dogs for me, I will be heartbroken. Is that your national food? Is that the food of your people? I would say so. I mean mean people, we like deep dish. Italian beef is another one, but Chicago style hot dog, man. That's like, it's the greatest food on earth. So it came up in tiny increments, surrounded by whatever else I'd had. Dude, it was so rough. So rough. but kind of, was it worth it?

It was probably worth it. It was probably worth it for a pretty fun weekend. Had a pretty fun weekend in Nashville. Tell you what, Nashville, sorry to all the people from Tennessee, well, Tennessee and Nashville aren't the same thing. But anyway, Nashville's much tackier than I remember. And I can't tell if that's just because I was exclusively

on Broadway, which is kind of like the main party's street there. But even having seen sixth street in Austin, which is, that's where the hand parties from Nashville come to. But when you go to Nashville, you're like, oh my god, this is the pro leagues. Yeah, well, I think Nashville style country, like there is a, there is for country listeners, there is a distinct difference from like Nashville country, which is essentially the Hollywood of country. And I think that's where the tackiness really comes through.

Right, it's just that full blown bachelor at party fake Southern tackiness. And which is interesting, you brought up Sixth Street, which is also an incredibly tacky area. Also slightly sketchy. You and I saw Rogan pretty recently on Sixth Street and like leaving there is pretty sketchy. Yes. But you almost felt at home though, you were like, this is what Newcastle is. These are my people. Yeah. But no, dude, I mean fucking going to Broadway in Nashville was that turned up to 11 my god Yeah, like the the cowboy hats the pink sparkly cowboy hats that all of them are wearing Yeah, that was that was an experience

I think the biggest changes because I've come from Austin especially spending time in whatever like South Austin where it whatever you're on Congress and everyone's out in jeans and trainers and you watch in live music, like just chill at some Italian bar or whatever, right, eating text-mix, to go to full on like kid rocks, finger blast club or whatever it's called, which is unlike five floors. Come and get finger blasted by Kid Rock on five floors and a rooftop. It was just, it was such a, such a change of pace. But I got to meet, I got to meet one of the guys that's a head producer with the Daily Wire Ben Shapiro show,

Colton. He's like just such a bro like really cool. Spent a ton of time with Jordan, got to see him record his new course. That was pretty fun and got some stuff sorted for next year as well, which I'll be able to release some details about probably within the next few weeks, which is like fucking dope. It's cool, man, but I keep forgetting you're not officially in Austinite. You are going to have to go back to your cold, dark, ominous country. Dead behind the eyes. Well, I mean, I just found out today, here's a headline for you, man. So, um, where is it? COVID, UK reports highest daily cases since the pandemic began.

That was today, the 15th of December. The UK's reported the record number of daily COVID-19 cases since the beginning of the pandemic, with 78,610 new cases on Wednesday. Previous highest number was 68,000 on the 8th of January earlier this year, follows the introduction of mandatory face masks in most indoor settings. COVID passes for large events in England, Boris Johnson is due to hold a press conference, lots of people are ill, lots of people are getting booster shots, don't come back to this country. That's basically what that new story says to me. Super. Fucking great. Fucking come back Chris. Get yourself back here, man. Happy Christmas. Yeah, I know. It's a weird one. It's a weird one, bro. But yeah, back, back for Christmas on Sunday and then we will see

what the plan is for now. But it's been this trip's been dope. This trip's been so much fun spending time with you doing adventures, seeing Rogan training, hot and cold stuff. I learned how to wake surf. It's been it's been a good trip, man. You know, it's it's like a holiday, but it's so much more than that for you. It feels much, like it's got to feel much more, like much less temporary, right? It's not just an escape where you're in a nice place. You're actually kind of living here. You know, it's almost like a semester abroad type of deal. So it's, I imagine it's different vibes.

Yeah, well, I think if you take satisfaction from working and from progressing and from doing stuff and contributing to whatever you think your message is to the world or your mission or whatever, one of the things that you have to deal with if you go on holiday holiday is, well, I kind of have to sacrifice my mission in order to enjoy this trip abroad.

Whereas when you go away and you kind of keep on, or maybe even increase the pace at which you do stuff, you know, I've met more people since I've been here that are in my industry than I have done in the previous year leading up to this. So I'm like, oh, actually, I get the satisfaction of contributing to the thing that I really care about whilst also being away somewhere different. My buddy George Mack is in Dubai and I messaged him at the start of this year asking, what does it feel like being out there for, I think he'd been there for about three months? And he said, it feels like I'm on summer holiday from school and someone's going to come and tell me that it's over soon.

But I know that it's not over. It's just, it's never over until I say that I need to go home. And that's kind of, that's kind of what it feels like. That it's just this endless, endless enjoyable trip. Well, I think that's got a stem from you actually enjoying your work. Yeah. You know, you work really hard.

I've noticed, you know, you work, you do a lot behind the scenes. You're like constantly getting new guests, you're constantly editing, fixing things up, you know, curating stuff for different social media, but I think that that doesn't really stress you out. It can, it can, you can get to you what I've noticed at least, but you, you enjoy it. So, you know, it doesn't really matter where you are. I think that the UK thing started to wear on you, especially with the pandemic, you literally did not change at all.

So, so yeah, man. What's your name? I'm bummed you have to go, but I know. Turn around. Come right back. I'm fucking, I know, man, I know, man, give me, give me a bit of time. So you rang me this morning in a state of frenzy. Life has never been heard before.

The wrath of a tall human shouting about some shit. What's, what's occurring? So essentially this sport of waylifting, the sport that I'm, that I'm a professional in, it's under the gun again. So I don't know if, do you know that meme of James Franco and he's about to be hanged? No. Where, forget what the, it's a Coen Brothers movie, but he's hanged once and it's unsuccessful and then he gets hanged again.

And he looks over the guy on the second time and he looks over and he says, first time, it's a, it's a, it's a famous meme. But basically everyone's freaking out because weightlifting is quote-unquote out of the 2028 games. The IOC had like, I guess it was their commission or someone spoke about this, but the verbiage did not exclusively or sorry, explicitly state that it was out. It's essentially another warning to the IWF, which is the governing body of weightlifting. Hey, you need to clean your shit up because like for real, we are going to kick you out. We had this issue leading up to 2020, which ended up being the 2021 games.

It was up on the chopping block for Paris, which is 2024, which we eventually found out they were going to include it. And now they're, they're basically saying, see, it's weird verbiage here. They're not saying, hey, you're out, you have to work to get back in. They're just kind of saying like you're up again to be out, but this time it seems a little bit more serious. Okay, so can you explain the different parties

that are at play here? What does the IWF do and how do the IOC relate to that as a body? So the IWF is required to do certain things to establish a relationship with the IOC, which is the International Olympic Committee, just like any other governing body has to establish that with the IOC. They have to establish some sort of relationship where they follow the guidelines to be in the Olympics. So, in the past, the IWF has been one of the most, actually, you know what? I can just outright say, the most corrupt Olympic sport. I have a little quote here, it's very interesting. From somebody who did a, let's see here. So this guy named Mark Peef.

Peef, or Python, I'm not entirely sure. He was an anti-corruption expert and he actually worked on FIFA. And he said, he and his team did a legal study after weeks of reviewing the IWF documents, which is the International Weight Lifting Federation documents, what I saw here seems very, very brazen to me, more brazen than what I saw at FIFA. And if we're talking about corruption being more so than at FIFA, that can give you guys

the level here. And there's what's he referring to? So what he's referring to, man, it's just there's so much. And this is why I said my head was spinning when I was trying to come up with like a finite amount. Basically, to put it simply, there's two branches, okay? It's corruption amongst the suits. So the corruption amongst the boomers and suits, as I like to call them,

and then the corruption amongst doping. So, simply put, doping, since 2000, there have been 700 cases international of doping suspensions. Within the sport of Olympic weightlifting. Yes, and within the sport of Olympic weightlifting, that is an astounding number. That's crazy, okay? So, this is where, so number. That's crazy. Okay.

So this is where... So the other branch of it... So the other fucking one left to do weightlifting. Well, so here's the thing. In the London Olympic Games in 2012, there was 10 people... Sorry, there were 10 people that were found to have had PEDs and either suspended or retroactively suspended, thus giving the 11th place finisher the gold medal.

So when you, I'm not kidding you, 11th place to gold medal. So, you know, a great example of this is like, you look at Lance Armstrong, there was a, there was some guy whether it was in his documentary or in Icarus and he said, I tested personally tested Lance Armstrong 50 times and he passed every single one of them. Now I believe that he passed those tests because they said it pretty explicitly in that documentary, it was either Icarus or it was, I think it's the Lance Armstrong documentary, a great documentary, by the way, where he was like a prized possession to that the cycling federation.

So, you know, Americans, more or less, did not care about cycling before Lance Armstrong. And while he was hot, the last thing they'd want to do is pop this guy and get him in trouble. And it took a long time for the people outside of that federation to expose Lance Armstrong, but that's actually what happened. And you know, what you were saying about weightlifting, how is there anyone left to do weightlifting? When things like 2012 happens, you're absolutely right. 2012 happens, you're absolutely right. But the main thing, I think that the doping issues are secondary to the corruption, which is some of this stuff is very interesting. If these guys, the heads of the IWF were outside of sport, they would be behind bars.

There is no question about that. And there are so many other sports like this. They talk about this in this article that very rarely do these cases of corruption within sport get pursued in trial, in actual criminal trial. I was gonna say, is it a criminal offense to cheat at sport? I, you know, this sort of stuff here,

I'll list off some of the stuff. Over the period of 17 years since 1992, more than $23 million went into Swiss IMF bank accounts, which however were not listed in the IWF's balance sheets. When these accounts were discovered in 2009, Ion alone was authorized to sign. So he was the only one who was able to look in, Ion, sorry, I didn't explain who that is. He is our overlord, well, at least was. For the past three decades,

he was the president of the IWF. And this man is like a Mafioso Don, so the head of a Mafia. There is no other way I can describe the IWF other than a crime syndicate because that's really really what we're looking at and According to the research Ion could not explain the whereabouts of at least 5.5 million dollars this man had been you know Ciphening money or he had know, he bribed people to basically pass tests.

So certain countries would pay fines to pass tests. They were always in cash and they were always delivered directly to Thomas Ion. And so that's the money that's in cash plus all of these transactions that have gone into this dodgy Swiss bank account as well. So that's just the stuff that was banked. Yes. And their theory is that there's $5.5 million missing that's unaccounted for. There are also 300 tests that are unaccounted for. So 300 tests that just kind of slipped under the rug.

There are multiple times where people were tested and then their positive tests were shown years later so that they can continue to compete so is Is it the iwf's job to enact that own testing though or do they not outsource it to Rousseau or you sawdor or someone else? Right, so so this is what's interesting and I'll tie it back to Lance Armstrong because because I think a lot of people can resonate with that. We're all well aware of that scandal.

So internationally, we use WADA, World Anti-Doping Agency. So that's going to be for those are for international events. But outside of that, each country is required to have national testing. And this is where you get the corruption to start, right? This, this, the fact, and I love bringing this up, that America has usada, and they don't really give a shit about any weightlifter. They're not going to protect a weightlifter in the same way that the cycling federation may protect Lance Armstrong. In the same breath, though, we will have a usada tested weightlifter compete against a North Korean. Okay, so anything that North Korea does, as far as national testing, like there's absolutely no way that we can reasonably say that there is something fair going on there, especially when they end up going into worlds, world championships,

Asian championships, and winning a lot of medals. But surely as soon as the North Korean athlete gets to a world championship level, it goes away from being tested by North Korea and goes into being tested by water. Right. And there's a science behind that. You learn how to cycle off of the steroids and the PEDs. You learn how to cycle off. You make sure that the window for catching these metabolites is closed, and then you go and compete,

which surely offers a good... Okay, so what you're saying is that water is there to test athletes during their competition phase at the absolute peak, but because your national testing isn't up to scratch, athletes are able to do more metabolic fuckery during their prep phase, and then with the right amount of cycling off, they can get themselves stronger outside of international testing, within the national testing, and then beat the international testing

when the time comes. Yeah, so this is a great point. There are three avenues for passing tests. The first avenue is knowing when the test is coming. The second is knowing what the test is exactly, and the third is having a drug that won't get tested. Knowing when the test is coming is the greatest advantage, in my opinion, because it's

the least risk. You can plan out your taking of whatever pharmacological substance you need. You can plan that out to make sure that you pass the test. Knowing what the test is would require you to have that testing facility yourself. So the Gregory Rudchenkov of Icarus, he was the leader of Rusada. So he had the literal exact testing that was used from WADA. So his athletes, he would just make sure they were clear with his own testing and then you know They would show up and pass tests. The third would be some sort of designer drug and I don't know the

Reality of that one actually existing, but it's it's not outside the scope of something that can happen Presumably there's a fourth route here that you could just pay someone off to swap samples out Yeah, and that's the funny thing is that's exactly what happened. That is exactly what happened in weightlifting. There was a German documentary called, I don't know the German term, but it was just called the Lord of Lifters. And it was about Thomas Ion, the Lord.

He's the overlord. He's the Sith Lord, an actual evil, evil man. And in this documentary, there was a Moldovan team doctor who said, we would just have random people show up for the testing, show the idea of the person pissing a cup and it would piss clean. Sometimes the tester would show up and we'd offer them the proper amount of money

and they wouldn't even collect a sample where they would collect a clean sample from someone else. This was the sort of stuff that was happening on mass and we were able to catch it. So is it the IWF's job to deploy testing? Yes, well, it is because they utilize water and there's a requirement within IWF to have out of competition testing that is nationally driven. So that's not even really the issue. The main issue is what I believe is the corruption at the absolute top, the skimming of money.

There was a story, this is a great story. Shaheen Nasirinya was a middleweight weightlifter who was notoriously in the top three in his weight class. Pirro's Dimas was his main competitor. Pirro's Dimas was the most decorated weightlifter in all time, one of the most easily the most decorated Greek Olympian of all time. And another one, Georgi Adsonice, who is the coach of Lauscha Tahlchadza, who Lauscha is the greatest weightlifter right now. So those three guys were in a very competitive stage, and in 2000 in Sydney, Shaheen was approached by his coach and basically said, look, you can not compete.

And if you do compete and if you put up winning numbers, the rest of our team will be popped for stairroids. And essentially, the reason for that was because they did not pay Ion or whoever at the top to pass those tests. Okay. So what Shaheen did, you can see in the snatch session as he's warming up to go snatch. He's wiggling his elbow around while he's snatching. He looks fine.

He's in totally, he's in unbelievable shape. He even said this. He's like, I was in the best shape I have ever been in. And he starts playing with his elbow in the warm up room. And he's making sure the camera's looking at him too. He goes up for his first snatch and he fakes an elbow injury. Walks off, Pirro Stemos is the winner. I believe Georgi Odsenica is the second place and then someone else is third place. So he doesn't even podium. No, because if he did, the rest of the Iranian team, Iranian team would feel the wrath of the IWF.

This is the level of corruption that was happening. So it is just to just to recap that. A guy that was potentially going to win was told that he couldn't win. Why? What's the reason that he couldn't come first? You know, I'm not entirely sure what the exact specifics are. Is it sports betting? Have they got some deal now in the table? No, it's not sports betting. It is. So, so you have to pay, it's racketeering, Chris, at its highest.

This is crime syndicate shit. Basically, the IWF says, you must pay us this money so that we can either push your tests under the rug and not pop you. It's almost like you're paying for your medal. If you get tested, you're going to piss hot. You're going to get popped because it is a known fact that that group all of those men are on drugs. Okay, so all of your aliens are using, yes. All of the aliens including the Georgians, all of the Russians. He was going to fake the elbow injury.

Yes, right. So I mean, it was there, like, it was right for them to get popped then. I struggled to feel sympathy for the guy that pretended that he wasn't going to win because he was on drugs and everyone else was and maybe we were gonna get found out. Of course, but the problem is though, Chris, is that the people who are supposed to be catching these people know this, right?

They're essentially, hey, you could give us a little bit of money and we'll be fine, right? So do you get mad at the cop who takes the bribe? Of course you fucking get mad at the cop for taking the bribe. Maybe you'll feel a little, you know, less, you know, you won't feel as bad for the person breaking the law or you will, yeah, you won't feel bad for them breaking the law, but you also have to get mad at the cop for taking the bribe. How are we supposed to get anything done when this level of corruption exists? All right, so talk to me about the flow of money then who is is the IOC taking any money?

Or do you think that they're relatively clean? No, no the IOC is anything but clean so the IOC is kind of a bully as well, right? They can make sure certain things happen and And again, this is all theoretical. The IOC is like incredibly powerful, incredibly. And when things come out, they act like they're on top, right? They act like they are not guilty for any of this stuff. And they go, hey, federation, get your shit together.

It's like the CEO who breaks the rule and blaming the people who work for the CEO. So, you know, it's pretty well known that the IOC is not the most, you know, that they're pretty dubious. If anything can expose this, it's Icarus where Russia was blatantly breaking the rules as far as doping and systematic doping and getting away with it because they had such high standing in the IOC. It took until a literal documentary and the

public discourse to be around Russia and they're cheating for them to be banned from the Olympics. Okay, so what was the press conference that was given today? Was this the IOC warning the IWF? Get your act together by 2023? Yes. Or else you don't get to be in the Olympics in 2028? Yes, or else skateboarding, rock climbing, and something else will be in place. So weightlifting and boxing are going to get kicked out for skateboarding and rock climbing. That seems like a fair trade to me. Cucks for cooks, right? So yeah, I mean, the verbiage is clear. Like, kick everyone out of the IWF or else we're gonna lose this sport as we know it. Okay, so it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it a half years. And I even have videos saying, like literally,

the death of our sport is nigh, let's fix it. You know, years ago I was saying that shit. And here we are now. It's finally come to a head. Yeah, absolutely. It's been coming to a head. The main issue here, Chris, is that there is a light at the end of the tunnel that I can see. And this is the worst part. It's like, right as we see the light, they're

just going to close the door to the light. The light is, we just had a American world champion, Meredith Allwine, just won a world medal. Last world championships, we had a world champion and a silver medalist in Kate and I and Maddie Rogers. Maddie Rogers just got a third place medal. We had an Olympic silver medalist. These are all things that America did not have and we're starting to have and our youth is starting to get better and better because the sport is growing here and because people care of this sport outside of the monetary interest.

If you were to compare weightlifting to football, there will never be a chance for weightlifting to do what football does, but it's something different. We are hobbyists. We are people who are good in the weight room when you're a child, if you're good and you learn the skill of snatching and cleaning and jerking and you pursue that, you're a child, if you're good, and you learn the skill of snatching and cleaning and jerking, and you pursue that, you're not pursuing it to have this dream of a life where you can be a professional football player where you can get a scholarship to play football

at a major university. That's not the case, but there are so many of those people. And not just 30-year-olds like myself, right? There are 15-year year old kids who are incredible at this sport, who now when they get of age in 2028, that will be taken away from them. That is what I have a massive issue with. That is not okay. And it's only because of fucking boomers in suits for real. If Thomas, if, if, look, if the doping problem was the only problem, I don't think we would have

this discussion, but it's shit heads like Thomas Ion and the rest of his cronies that have this iron grip on this sport that have done that. Is he still in his position? No, he was forced to resign and with zero criminal, I honestly think he still has his money. How long has he been saying? So who's in charge now? Why isn't he fixed it? This is interesting. One of the guys who is an old board member who was part of the, uh, the old guard was

hired. He's actually a British guy. His name is Mike Irani. And what's interesting is the UK Federation didn't even like the fact that he was selected. So that goes to show that we took out Thomas Ion and put basically a disciple in his place. Yeah, version 2.0. Yes, yep. If you were to think about, UK is another country that like leads the way in change.

They're very, very harsh on doping. Arguably harsher than the US. What's all US? Do you know what I would, if we got like Yukada or something? Yes. Yes. Is that what it is? Yes.

Okay. And they're very, they're very tough. They fucking got sunny website, didn't they? Oh yeah. And they will continue to get him. They pursued a rule in getting Sonny Webster that the US would never pursue. How would you explain the series of events that Sonny went through where he got his ban and then he got his subsequent extension? So he got his ban because he tested positive for a charm and I'm not sure how long the ban was. I think it might have been four years. He was then warned.

Which is the max. Yes, it is. For your first offense, it's the max ban. But you could have had that reduced if he'd accepted, like if he'd pled guilty to it. But he spent a shit ton of money trying to find out what he thought was a attainted supplement that had had that particular, was it not a austranazole? Oh, asterine. Asterine, that was it. Yes.

And yeah, so, so, um, then this rule is very interesting. You are not allowed to coach and or train with people who have been caught. So, and if you're if they're able to find that, they can ban the person who was coaching, they can ban even the person who was training with that person. I'm not sure if the second version has has happened, but Sunny was doing seminars. He continued to do seminars. He even did them in New Zealand, Australia, and then the New Zealand Federation and the Australian Federation started complaining. And then sunny,

he tacked on another three years onto his band, I think. So essentially a lifetime band, but that's all right. He's never coming back. But that is something that he would never pursue here. Fucking flying off into the sunset with a huge online following, having tons of fun with his model girlfriend, living the life that he wants in Australia. Like, that's one of the things, you know, to speak to watching Sunni from,

I was just starting to speak to him for the show as his first band became public. And I think we touched on it. And then James Smith's first podcast, I wanna say his first, a second podcast episode, is about Sunni's band. It's like, it's him opening the doors completely about what happens.

So I've kind of seen this full trajectory, including the fact that he, the sport that he did where you can see photos of him walking next to Andy Muriek, waving his little flag at Rio and then thinking, okay, my goal after I get through this four year ban is to come back and do the Commonwealth Games in 2022 and that, you know, that's at least part of it.

But I mean, by the time that his band's over, he's gonna have gone from being what, like, a 23-year-old kid to being a 31-year-old guy or a 30-year-old guy. And, yeah, you're right, that's basically taken the prime of his career away from him. And he's just decided to be the most anti-fragile mother fucker on the planet and just have an awesome time building his platform and doing what he wants to do outside of the institutions. Well, I would like to talk about doping in sport, you know, just generally. Yep. Um, how it works and why it will continue happening, but I think from what I've gathered,

when I continually cover doping in sports and corruption and weightlifting, there's this defeatist attitude from the commenter basically being like, I don't care, let them all dope, screw the IOC, screw sports, just make it fun. Make it fun for me. And I have a major issue with that. It's very simple-minded and it's almost defeated in nature. But it's absolutely impossible to have some sort of policy in place where for the most part we can have clean athletes. And if that isn't possible, it's possible to have the playing field be somewhat a more level.

The biggest issue that I found with doping, and in my experience in weightlifting, but this can carry over to many other sports is the protection of doping athletes who dope. That's the biggest issue that I have. So if you want to roll the dice and take drugs and try to pass tests, go ahead. You can do that in any other place, in any other endeavor in your life. You can cheat. If you don't get caught, what are we going to do about it? You know, cheat. If you don't get caught, what are we going to do about it? You know, but that is not what ends up happening. There are people who get unfair advantages so that they can cheat or at least cheat more than others. So you have, right? So, so that. Go ahead.

You have certain athletes that are able to utilize performance enhancers whilst other athletes don't. Has your camera just died again? Yes. You are. Do you have another battery? No. I hate you. I hate you. Fuck you said.

Before we started. I charged it bro. I was charging it for a half hour. You were a fuck. You were a fuck You were a fuck All right, right with switching to you fucking special needs camera by the way though this camera is much better It's not much better shut up right no no It's much better than the last camera when it when it switched over. Oh cuz you got your new fancy. Yes. Yeah, laptop. Okay Yeah, the problem is that some people get popped, some people don't get popped.

That's the issue. Yeah, and more than that, the problem can stem even to an even worse place. Egypt was, I think provisionally suspended from competing just internationally completely because they were found doping up 12-year-olds. So, so they were giving, they were giving PED,

PEDs to 12-year-old girls and boys, okay? I don't care what anyone stands on. Give them all dope, like let them perform. That is immoral, that is wrong. 100 times out of 100. Giving children drugs is so wrong. We know the science behind what antibiotics do to a grown man or a grown woman, but what it does to someone going through puberty or someone who isn't fully developed, that is

extremely problematic. But then if you think, okay, this is kind of something with, you know, Jordan Peterson would bring up like, okay, then what's the line? Then what are we okay with? 17 years old? 18 years old, 19, 20, 21, 22.

A lot of the people who say, let them all use drugs. They don't know what that means. Well, let me ask you why it's the case that somebody could take puberty blockers to reassign their gender direction as they go through puberty, but we feel uncomfortable about somebody enhancing their performance by using testosterone. And many people would say, in sport, that's unfair. And that's potentially dangerous. It seems like, I don't know, there are two different sets of standards

that are being used here for people. Yeah, and I would say most endocrinologists who are worth their fucking salt would say, taking puberty blockers before you're fully developed or something like that is probably not a good idea. Given, you know, the countless hours of studies of human biology, it's not suggested to do something like that. Especially as a person who, as yet, isn't legally allowed to vote, drive or drink alcohol in the US.

Yep. Maybe you shouldn't be making life-changing decisions when you're basically still a child. That can never go back. Yes, it reverse. Yeah. So again, the same could be said about antibiotics. What line then, person who's out there, and trust me, it seems like I'm just arguing against someone who doesn't exist,

but I promise you, there will be comments in your comments section. There will be comments endlessly in my section just saying, whatever, it's all entertainment for me. And they don't have any skin in the game. Yeah. This is my livelihood. I want to open a gym when I when I grow up. Finally, when I finally grow up, no, I would like to open a gym in the future and have youth lifters live there with the dream of going to the Olympics. I would like it to happen. I would like weightlifting to still be

in the Olympics and have it taken away from a bunch of boomers and suits is an issue. And and furthermore, to have it taken away from other countries who decide to dope up children, that's bullshit. That's where I'm ultimately, if it takes us saying, hey, here's a hard stance against steroid use, to eliminate them. I mean, they mean a hard stun. So you're trying to say that there isn't a hard stun

so already? Not really. Well, in the US, anywhere, actually, I mean, if this, if it were just testing and people getting caught, if there was no other bureaucracy surrounding it, I guess I could say, well, that's all we got. You know, but that's the problem is,

once it's two, what's the word I'm looking for? It's two, what's the meaning of that? Multi-faceted. No, when it's too enticing, it's too enticing for leaders to utilize doping and anti-doping as a weapon. They use it as a weapon to manipulate metals, to gain money, to, you know, favor one country,

one lifter, one athlete over another. What is it about weightlifting that's attracted particularly so much corruption and doping, is it because the sport is benefited massively by the use of drugs over probably most others? Was that the genesis of it, do you think? I think that's the genesis of it, but we're finding that, you know, Annabellex help, I don't, I think they would help equally in many other sports. But they're not going to help as much in, let's say soccer, you know, a big team sport where your performance on your own doesn't matter as much,

where raw output, athletic output is mitigated a lot more by tactics and skill. Yeah, and I think, you know, so that's why cycling it helps so much. Exit. Just output. Yeah, it's just output, and it's just raw individual output. And the difference between a doped up athlete and a non-doped up athlete is massive.

I agree with you. I think that it is, you know, you're gonna see the same level of doping in cycling that you are in Olympic weightlifting. What you're not gonna see is cycling get taken out of the fucking Olympics. Why is it then that weightlifting is on the chopping block? Is it, is there something against the sport generally? I like to use this example. Do you remember in

stepbrothers when they're in the interview and they're wearing the tuxedos? Yeah. With Seth Rogan. Yeah. And, and he, he, when they initially sit down, he goes, Hey, I thought the tuxedos were kind of weird, but I guess I kind of like it. I think it's great. And then Dale Farts, really loud, really hard. And then he goes, you know what? On second thought, those tuxedos are a little fucked up. And it's kind of the same thing with weightlifting,

where the guy is wearing the tuxedos. And when we keep getting in trouble like this, it's like we're Dale farting. Oh yeah, weightlifting is kind of a fucked up sport. I think we can take it out of these Olympics. It's like we are, if we play by the rules, they're okay with us, but if we don't, we look a lot more fucked up than a major sport,

not by the rules. Because we're just not prevalent. I mean, in at least in America, we're just not, it's not an important sport, but that's a theory that may not be true. Right? I understand what you mean. I would say that. It's more of a theory, right? Like, we're a downtrodden sport that's not as famous as other sports. And to another country that might not be the case, but I think I just, I guess I can only compare it to cycling, especially in America, the way that we look at cycling.

It's like, we have a ton of hobbyists, we have a ton of decent pros and decent amateurs, but we'll never look at it like we do track and field, you know, gymnastics or swimming. For some reason, we just won't. I don't know, man. It's a, I understand how it's a shitty situation, especially for you, as someone who has dedicated a lot of time to this, who has got athletes who are potentially looking at, you know, verging on potentially qualifying toward that 2028 Olympics. That's, I understand why it would be uncomfortable, but I don't see... The corruption is too fold, right? So you've got the guys at the top that are ruining it,

and then you have the doping that's coming from the bottom, which is kind of destroying the sport. And the problem is that you could get away with just the doping if you had verifiable information that you could trust the people that were supposed to be the ones that were checking on this. Yes, yes. And the doping would not be as prevalent. I think it would be some sort of a trickle-down effect. It would have to be, right? But again, like I said before, it is too enticing to take advantage of doping andle-down effect. It would have to be, right? But again, like I said before, it is too enticing to take advantage of doping

and anti-doping. It is too enticing to take control in that way. At least that's what I've seen. Wasn't Russia, when they just kicked out of some Olympics recently? Yes, but they were allowed to compete as like the US or the sorry the Russian Federation or some. What would you know what the story was there?

I'm not entirely know I mean I know I know that they were kicked out like officially kicked out. I thought that athlete basically just competing under different. Like how the fuck does that work? It's like, yeah, I don't know. It's a very interesting thing. There's, it's this thing where you can compete not under your country, but in almost like an athletic federation or something like that. Okay, so all of the people, tons of the people that wouldn't have been allowed to go

under Russia went under the fucking USSR or some shit. Yeah, but they felt the heat from that, regardless. Like, yeah, they skirted around a little bit, but they felt the heat from literally not being allowed. Could you see a world within the next 50 years where the Olympics just gets disbanded for widespread drug use overall? Like the Olympics gets cut off?

Yep. No, I don't think so. It's too big of a beast. Yeah, it's, dude, it's a political tool. It always has been a political tool. The Olympics have always been something where a country can flex. I mean, this is, this is really why I think the corruption and weightlifting is so prevalent is because these countries that don't have much power in any other sport they found that they were doing pretty well

Countries like Armenia Ukraine Iran Iran You know these countries found a way in to get gold medals like gold medal for these countries is a massive deal Any metal is a massive deal. It's a great national product. For propaganda, for national pride, it is a way to say fuck you to the other countries to say that we're better. It is absolutely a competition between countries. And so now when we see you know, these countries do well that don't do well in any other sport, they're going to clamor

to the way things are. It legitimates that country's sort of sporting national presence. Yeah, okay. Yes. Right, does that make a little bit more sense? Why it's so difficult to break down this corruption? Because they don't want it to go. What is it about? Because it's successful for other sports.

Why is it that weightlifting has permitted Iran? Why can't Iran just dope the shit out of some cyclists and crush cycling or some other sport boxing or something? I think they are all right at boxing actually, but yeah. I hadn't thought about that actually. I hadn't thought about that. I think there's like some sort of history there. I think you see Eastern block countries because they were part of the USSR and historically the USSR has been incredibly successful in weightlifting, so then those countries break off. And now it's a great opportunity to flex against the old Russia, the old USSR.

I'm not entirely sure about Iran. What you've actually, what we see in a lot of other countries is some of these guys from these Eastern block teams, they end up going to these other countries and they end up being their head coach. So yeah, so you'll see a Bulgarian head coach of the Australian team or something like that. And that's where things get very interesting as well. What do you think, how widespread do you think drug use is generally in sports? So if you were to pick, I'd know, like American football, right, or basketball and stuff like that. Massive. You reckon?

Yes. Massive. Massive. The, it's not so that you can grow and get bigger muscles. Yes, you can retain. The greatest thing is you just retain your muscle so much easier. The second greatest thing is you can just do more work

because every powerful movement, you're able to have just a faster acting metabolism, a faster acting mode of recovery towards whatever movement that is. I think that basketball might be like it would be the most advantageous place to use dope. Why? Because it is so intense what like a big player goes through. You know, 40 minutes of just back and forth and jumping and cutting, like it just would

destroy your knees, the forces at which they're constantly using. And they play so many games. If you think about football, there's really not as much play. The average play is six seconds long. Right, basketball is nonstop. It's on hardwood.

You're not just cutting, you your jumping. If you were to compare that to soccer, the time that one player, if you actually look at the amount of time a player sprints and cuts and soccer, it's not even close to a basketball player. That'd be fucking, I would love for someone to do an analysis that understands the way that different doping substances impact physiology and performance. And to just substances, impact, physiology and performance. And to just say, look, here are some of the relative outputs that you could expect if you were to take a moderate sort of sub detectable dose where you were cycling on and off.

So here's a typical cycle that somebody that was playing basketball would be able to use. And here's one that somebody in cycling could use. And here's one that somebody in soccer and weightlifting and powerlifting and whatever. And to just have a look at the differences, the expected differences in performance, one of the problems that you're going to get,

I mean, let's say obviously you had this in baseball, right? You had Barry Bonds and that entire period where baseball lost its entire fan base because there was a huge doping scandal. Now, the problem that you have with any sport like baseball or basketball is the season is so long. Yes, it's huge, which means that if you have no time off, the sort of compound that you can use,

the complexity of how you're going to cycle in and cycle out of using different protocols, all of that's going to be turned up to 11. Yeah, and I also think, you know, it doesn't take much. You just go through the majority of your career as a natural athlete. You make it to the NBA as a natural athlete, you establish yourself as a natural athlete, and then when you want to hang on and potentially improve, because remember, it's all about improvement in any sport. You want to get better, but it's very difficult to get better

when you're already some of the best. So, you know, that's where PET use, all it would take is just like a TRT dose of testosterone and then maybe some GHD, or some GHD, human growth hormone, HGH. So like GH as well would help a ton, but just basically a TRT dose for a natural athlete that's been natural their entire life. Something like that would increase performance, like mind blowing. Need Derek. Need Derek for more plates, more dates on who he could tell us this show.

Look, the way that I see it is like this. Any sport where your fitness is tested, but the power output needs to be high. Because if the power output needs to be high, that means you have to have a musculature that can support that. However, when you use a lot of power and you use a lot of muscle for something, you end up expanding a ton of energy, which in turn is hard on your fitness. So if you constantly have to train these opposing things, right? Like cardiovascular fitness is going to always

oppose for, it's always going to be on the opposite side of having a lot of muscle and a lot of power. So what if you were able to take a compound that was that would allow you to retain muscle with less effort while you can focus on fitness? That's essentially what every single athlete's goal is. Increase fitness, increase capacity, increase the amount of work you can do without losing the things that make you the athlete you are. Yeah, well, I mean, that's exactly what they measure in cycling, right?

They measure power to weight. That's what they look at. Yeah. How do you get that ratio, power to weight? I mean, it's a perfect thing. But they want to be as small as possible, but they also want to be able to deliver the maximum amount of wattage down. Okay, so roll the clock forward for me.

What would you do? Let's say that you're in charge of the IWF now or you're the IOC giving instructions to the IWF. What would your mandate be? I would clear clean house. Every single person that was there during ION is gone. There's no question. They're gone. I don't care how good of a person they were, they're gone. There's no question, they're gone. I don't care how good of a person they were, they're gone. Secondly, I would look over the doping protocol and I would find a way to verify the national testing. I think that there is some level of innovation that can happen where we can verify national

testing. Then I would have athletes required to take a certain number of international tests per year. So if you're in that testing pool, in that elite testing pool, you can just show up to a meat, sign up, weigh in, test, and leave. But then you're going to know when the test is going to be. Right, but knowing when the tests are coming and there's one, one every two months, it is possible, but it's less likely to take the enormous amount of compounds as well as on top of tightening up national testing. Of course, look, Chris, you can always cheat. You can always

break the law. You can always break the rule. We have to make it harder. We have to be more diligent with that. Like I can sit here and give you solution after solution. And you can say, well, you know, they could screw it around us. Of course, they can. It's never going to change. But there are massive holes. I mean, if we looked at this from like an analytics perspective, we just said, we just had a bunch of economists come in. A bunch of, and I actually just listen to your podcast, nerds are geeks or... Nerds geeks and docks, yeah.

Geeks? Geeks. Geeks, because they have utility, right? Geeks. So we have a bunch of geeks come in and they'd say, Jesus, this doping protocol or anti-doping protocol, like it has massive issues here, here and here, fix them. That's gotta be possible, right?

From my perspective, it has to be possible. So something like that would have to change. I don't know, man. I don't know. It blows my mind that the Olympics has a very widespread drug problem. And it kind of makes sense, right? Because you appreciate that people will do whatever they need to do in order to win. And the, what do you say?

The desire of the individual is going to outweigh, or the temptation of success is going to outweigh the temptation of virtue or integrity. Like obviously, you know, getting to the number one spot on the podium, whether you're clean or not is so tempting to so many people. And if you're convinced enough that the other people in your sport and in your category are also using and you know that you're not going to be competitive without it, then it becomes a race to the bottom. You say, well, look, I can't not take this. It's better for me to be caught and kicked out because the alternative is coming 19th. So here's the problem in weightlifting in America, we don't even have the opportunity to race to the bottom or sorry, we don't even have the opportunity to even play because Ustadah is so stringent comparatively to other national testing.

How long has it been since an American athlete got popped at the international level? As far as I'm concerned, there was one minor incident, like, what's a minor incident? 10 years ago, I think, I don't know exactly what had to happen, but it was Sarah Robles. I'll have to do more research on that, but I think before that, you know, 20, 30 years. So you're saying that very few people

are sneaking through the national level testing from Yusada to get to WADA, and then be tested at the international level and get popped. Yes. Okay. The number is minuscule. Why not just do it that way? Why not just do it that way?

Say that, look, if you get popped at the international level and your country overall is disproportionately represented, then there's going to be some sort of sanction. There is. Oh, there is. Oh. So, yeah, so no, no, that could that you point that out. That's exactly what happens. Thailand was, I mean, so many countries, holy shit.

Thailand, Ukraine, Romania, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Turkey, the list is insane. They were not allowed to bring a certain number of people to the Olympics. Their Olympic spots were closed. So America was actually able to bring eight lifters to the Olympics, whereas Romania was able to bring one. And then in the Thailand, this is hilarious. In the Thailand World Championships, Thailand was not even allowed to have a team compete.

The host country was not allowed to have a team compete. No fucking way. Swear to God. And Uzbekistan, before that was, it was in, I don't know, where in Uzbekistan. It's actually there again right now. The World Championships are going on right now.

But they actually might have been Turkmedistan. One of the stands, God, there's so many, I don't know. But they begged to allow their competitors to compete at their home competition. And they were actually able to get around that. That's another point of corruption there. Athletes that should have been suspended and actually an entire team should have been suspended, but they weren't because it was their home meat. Thailand could not pull that off. Fuck. Well dude, I, uh, I don't know. It's a, it's a, it's a shit show.

What do you reckon? What's the, if you were going to give me odds, what, what you reckon to the percentage chance? Oh God. Weightlifting is in the 2028 Olympics. I'm going 50-50. 50-50. It seems low and that is low, but I'm going 50-50.

I actually said when we were on the chopping block for 2024, I had said I think it was like 60-40. Got worse. Oh yeah, you know why? Because we're farther away. I think it was like 60, 40. Got worse. Oh yeah, you know why? Because we're farther away. That's why it's scary. You got more work to do to get to the place that you need to be. And you've got what?

Did they say when in 2023? No, it's probably right around now, December of 2023. Okay, so you've got two years to try and clean up an entire sport and the governing body that does it plus all of the athletes globally that compete in it. Yeah. It's like telling a good look my friend. Where should people go? They want to check out your stuff. If they haven't already done it. Check out my YouTube channel. YouTube channel. Just search my name, ZACK, T-E-L-A-N-D-E-R. If you want to start weightlifting, go to patreon.com slash the act calendar, and Instagram as well, coach, under-dash, Z-T.

That's where you find me. See you soon for brisket, man. Bye, see ya. you