Modern Wisdom - #442 - Jake Hanrahan - What Is Life Like On The Ground In Ukraine?

Episode Date: March 3, 2022

Jake Hanrahan is a conflict journalist, documentary filmmaker and the founder of Popular Front. The Russian invasion of Ukraine has been going for a week but it's felt like a year. Social media, YouTube and news channels have been awash with stories from on the ground and even the Wikipedia page has had over 500 contributors and is more than 20,000 words long. I wanted to find out what life is actually like on the ground in Ukraine from someone who's been there. Expect to learn what protection the Ukrainian citizens have access to from bombings, where civilians are getting all their guns from, how you coordinate citizen-militias with zero military training, whether world champion boxers are are actually helping the effort, how skeptical Jake is of the press coverage, how many Russians actually want this war and much more... Sponsors: Join the Modern Wisdom Community to connect with me & other listeners - https://modernwisdom.locals.com/ Get over 37% discount on all products site-wide from MyProtein at https://bit.ly/proteinwisdom (use code: MODERNWISDOM) Get 20% discount on Mission’s high performance teas at https://missionuk.com (use code MW20) Get 20% discount on everything from Lucy at https://uk.lucy.co/ (UK) or https://lucy.co/ (US) (use code: MW20) Extra Stuff: Follow Popular Front on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/popular.front Follow Jake on Twitter - https://twitter.com/jake_hanrahan  Get my free Reading List of 100 books to read before you die → https://chriswillx.com/books/ To support me on Patreon (thank you): https://www.patreon.com/modernwisdom - Get in touch. Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chriswillx Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/chriswillx YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/modernwisdompodcast Email: https://chriswillx.com/contact/  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello everybody, welcome back to the show. My guest today is Jake Hanrahan. He's a conflict journalist, documentary filmmaker, and the founder of Popular Front. The Russian invasion of Ukraine has been going on for a week, but it's felt like a year. Social media, YouTube, and news channels have been awash with stories from on the ground, and even the Wikipedia page has had over 500 contributors and is more than 20,000 words long. Given this, I wanted to find out what life is actually like on the ground in Ukraine from someone who's been there. Expect to learn what protection the Ukrainian citizens have access to from bombings, where civilians are getting all their guns from, how you coordinate citizen militias with zero

military training, whether world champion boxes are actually helping the effort, how skeptical Jake is of the press coverage, how many Russians actually want this war, and much more. This was a conversation I really wanted to have. I want to try and cut through all of the noise and misinformation and disinformation and tic-tocs and live streams and Instagrams, and really try and find out exactly what life is like from a citizen's perspective. I understand that the geopolitics of this, having repercussions and is NATO going to push back and what's Biden going to do and blah, blah. But I think that first and foremost, this is an issue which is affecting people and understanding the plight and suffering of people on both sides and how they feel and what it's actually like to be there is a pretty important thing to do and the work that Jake does with popular front is it's really important. So if you like it, you should go and support him. He's got a patreon, he's got an Instagram and Twitter and stuff like that. So go and follow him and give him some support.

But now please welcome Jake Hanrahan. Thanks very much, mate. Thanks for having me. You are recently back from Ukraine. You left the day before everything started, but that you didn't mean for that to happen. That was just a fortunate timing, I guess. I mean, it was kind of, I think it was like two days actually, but it was one of these things where, you know, me and the guys working with my mate, Johnny Pickup, we were there, we were like, shall we stay? It's probably not going to happen, you know,

because it just, I don't know, it was, it just seemed almost inconceivable. I don't know. I don it just, I don't know, it was, it just seemed almost inconceivable. I don't know why, but it did at the time. We had it, we'd been filming anyway, we've been filming with like the training, the militia training. So it's like, we had a good film anyway, which we're editing now. And I was like, you know what, I've got things to do, I've got family commitments, he's the same. We said, all right, we'll go back. And then, you know, two days into the edit, I get a call in the morning, like they've done it, they've invaded. It's like, wow, Jesus. Why did you think it wasn't going to happen?

Honestly, it was, I think, maybe the mood in Kiev, you know, like four days before the invasion, we were out chatting to people at the pub, you know, stuff like that, you know, local Ukrainians in Kiev and they were like, no, there's no way like it's not going to happen. The government wasn't really preparing bombshellers like I know that, you know, Biden said it's going to happen and then all these other intelligence agencies did, but they said it was going to be on this day, then this day, then this day, and I think the enormity of it just, you know, naively perhaps, I a lot where it was just me a lot of people just thought, nah, probably not going to happen like that, probably just the East, but lo and behold,

you know, he went in full pale. What is it like then? I know that you've been back since this fightings fully started, but you are, you've got popular front, which is your organization, conflict reporting, independent journalism and stuff. And you guys are putting out an unbelievable amount of Videos footage you've got friends you've literally we've had to delay recording because one of your friends has rang from Kiev to say that There's been some heavy bombing going on. Can you try and explain to people?

What life is like for civilians in Ukraine at the moment? Yeah, yeah, I mean, I think that's a good question because there's a lot of focus on the West kind of lauding up this and lauding up that or then it's like online political people screaming that their ideology isn't being appeased. The reality is people on the ground civilians, you know, like you've just said, a living in bombshell was there are people like the I saw some photos earlier, there's like a makeshift hospital in one of the basements. They were children with cancer under bombardment now, like getting treatment in a basement best they can. A little girl, a six year old girl was killed the other day, Rocket landed near a supermarket and she was killed. The photos are just horrific. Like

there was a photojourn, it just happened to be with this family and they're rushing her into the hospital and she just dies on the bed. The mother's just there crying. It's absolutely brutal. And there's a lot of political kind of nonsense going on and I really think that the focus,

it's like, yeah, well, civilians are dying right now. I think it's around 135 civilians have been killed in one week, 13 of those with children, 400 people, civilians wounded, around 1000 to 2000 fighters on each side killed. It's one weekend, it's madness, you know, it's very, very serious, very brutal, and Russia is no matter which way you're painting it, they are indiscriminately hitting civilian areas right now. You know, they're bombing apartment blocks. Like, like you just said, a bomb just went off or a rocket hit, I should say, near the,

near the one of the train stations, the train stations, the subway system is where everybody goes for the bomb shelters. Like, what strategic target possibly could that be? I don't know, but it does seem to be like, you know, they're going after civilians. We've seen them do the same thing in Syria. Not to say that the West doesn't do the exact same thing. Everybody wants to do this that and the other like, oh, what about what about? It's like, yes,

very seriously. I mean, like two months ago, America wiped out a whole civilian family enough in Afghanistan as they were leaving. And just like, toodaloo, no one was charged. Nothing happened. Orful. But right now, you know, we're talking about Ukraine. Yeah, it's like, toodaloo, no one was charged, nothing happened, awful. But right now, you know, we're talking about Ukraine. Yeah, it's like, yeah, civilians are getting bombed, left them right, it's really bad. Food running out, well, I should say, like, sorry, yeah, the food is running out as well in medicines as well.

I just spoke to a friend and she's like, my grandma, she's in Harkiv, she's 95, her medicine's gonna run out in a couple days, like, what can we do? It's just, it's so brutal, man Other no rules. I don't understand whatever it is the rules of engagement Around the sort of targets that you can hit if you decide to invade a country are you just allowed to indiscriminately target

Missiles wherever you want. I mean, you know, there is there is the Geneva Convention and you know war crimes, but essentially It doesn't that doesn't really exist. You know what I mean no one sticks to it really. I don't know. I don't know what you mean So I mean, you know, I mean, there's an example of like NATO, you know, there is a few years ago There's videos of Turkish soldiers murdering prisoners of war. There's a video of them holding a prison of war. They're holding their head. That's NATO's second largest army. There wasn't even an investigation.

NATO's just poop-po-it. Oh, it's Kurdish rebels don't worry about it. So again, another incident, Turkey burned a load of civilians to death in a basement in a town called Jizra in Southeast Turkey in 2016. And nothing really happened. So it's very, the West is very firmly on their eye, or it's right now, but there is no real rules. Let's be honest, there is the concept of war crime.

I'm not saying that we should ignore it. Of course, no, it's brutal, it's disgusting. But at the end of the day, when war happens, a lot of the rules go clean out the window. You know what I mean? It's just, it's unfortunately the way it is, but things get very primitive and very nasty things happen, you know. And Russia has just said, you know, we're going to just do this, I guess, not that they're justified at all. I think it's absolutely horrendous and abhorrent whenever civilians are targeted. Like, it's just disgusting. And I think in terms of like, I don't know about legal laws, but like natural law, it's just disgusting. And I think in terms of like,

I don't know about legal laws, but like natural law. It's just like horrendous, you know what I mean? If there's a hell, no, those people deserve to go there. But it's, yeah, when you're talking about rules of engagement, it gets very flimsy when the war starts, you know what I'm saying. Yeah, that makes sense. You said that you were in town, whatever, in the pub four days before, most of the people that were there, that were civilians that are now facing the potential of being hit with missiles. Basically didn't think that it was going to happen. It seemed like the government didn't think it was going to happen. Does that mean that in terms of provisions, protection, preparation, there's, it's insubstantial? Yes, definitely. Yeah, that's that is true. I mean

Don't give I'm not knocking Zelensky. He's really risen to the kind of the occasion, you know He's definitely I respect that he's staying with the people there. He's in Kiev It's it's you know the US offered to take him you know to take him out like we'll get you when he said no he's staying here like fair play to him But there's a lot being ignored here while people are looting up Zelenskyky. There's a lot being ignored. The fact that the bombshellers weren't properly ready. We interviewed a lad, a very good local reporter in Kiev who the week before had gone around to all the bombshellers that the government had designated. Some of them like there was padlocks on them and it had a number, call this number. He called the number and the woman was like, I don't know everybody's ringing me. There is no key. You know, things like that.

There's not on a food provisions. So whilst on one degree, it's like, yeah, okay, Zelensky's doing this thing now. I do start to think like what was happening before that. You know, like why wasn't there more preparations? It's not for me to say maybe, but I think it's worth looking at, you know, essentially in the long run.

But right now, I guess that is not really here nor there. It's happened and this is what's happening now. But yeah, I would agree that it seemed to me anyway. And we spoke to a lot of people, you know, covered a lot of things. And it didn't, yeah, it didn't look like there was proper preparations. You know, we went to, there was one place, it was a bombshell, but it was also a strip club.

You know, it was used as a strip club because, you know, no one's had to use the bombshell. And that's fine, you know, whatever. And it was kind of funny. But at the end of the day, it's like, well, shouldn't, shouldn't that be gutted and turned into, you know, there was no preparations there. There wasn't stacks of food. There wasn't heating. There wasn't blankets. That, you know what I mean? It's, that's not, that's not really preparation. They just sprayed a thing on the wall saying bombshell were in case of emergency or something like that. And it's like, that's not really preparation, you know what I mean.

So yeah, I definitely think, you know, that could have been done more. But again, there's a massive subway system in Kiev especially and across Ukraine. So, you know, I know that a lot of people are down there, but yeah, it's very, it's looking bad. What would you say, how would you say that the Russian offensive's gone so far? Do you reckon that they expected to be further along than this by this point? Yeah, I mean, I'll be honest, I'm kind of, you know, throwing through a reporter on the ground. I don't really look too much into the kind of analysis and that because I've seen things happen at war where it's like, you know,

50,000 analysts are telling you this and you get there and you're like, oh, this is not at all what it is, you know, not to disrespect them, but it's quite easy to do an analysis from the desk. But I will say that I do think that Russia, the signs you can see that Russia perhaps expected it to go quicker than this is that I can't remember the exact one, but Russia basically poo in, I should say, sacked one of his like head kind of commanders, you know what I mean, replaced him quite early in, I should say, SACT, one of his head commanders, you know what I mean, replaced him quite early and I think like the fourth day of the invasion. So I think that gives you a sign that,

something, and you know, something's not right here, something's not really going the way they did. And honestly, you know, it's, the Ukrainian resistance is very real, you know what I mean. I've been back and forth to Ukraine, I think almost 10 times since I was 27, so I'm 32 now, you know, a couple of years, a little while. I've been back and forth to the front lines all over the place. The culture they have

there is one of resistance. You know, it's very, I mean, you just have to look at the amount of people joining the citizen militias. Every, every people, I'm talking to friends there, like reporters, and I'm like, oh, how's the fix you're working with? And they're like, oh, he's gone. He joined the resistance. You know what I mean? Like, there's a lot of people, there's mechanics, there's metal workers are making big, what they call hedgehogs like big kind of spiked metal things

to put in the road to try and deter tanks or well, armoured vehicles. Everyone is doing their bit, you know, there's, I think we spoke to a Lajesta day and he was saying that there was like, well, we did speak to Lajesta there, but he was saying that there was like, um, well, we did speak to a lot yesterday, but he was saying that there was like, uh, a guy that was a roof up, just preparing Molotovs, you know, just for everybody in the street, you know, it's everyone has kind of come together and there is like a real resistance, which is commendable I think anyone that's been invaded by, by a country and there is sovereign state and whatever like fair play they can resist. It's absolutely their, their prog it to do so.

But I don't think they can resist completely, you know, I think here is going to fall unfortunately. It will take longer than Russia expected and it has been a bit of a meagre under the you know the the Ukraine military are really a lot more prepared, a lot more powerful than they were in 2014 after the revolution when you know Russia and X Crimea and the fight started in the east of Ukraine.

But the problem is Russia is an incredibly powerful military and Ukraine is completely outgunned. Russia is already showing that they will go all the way in terms of we will just bomb civilians, we will just do that. I'm saying so I think that's a worry. However, I will say that once they do start taking major cities, the guerrilla warfare will start and that will be health for the Russians. I really believe that not on any kind of romantic level just as an observation of I've covered a lot of guerrillas. How so? What do you mean? Well, you know, if you've got like a united people, I mean, you've got people, there's militias from all different backgrounds there. Unfortunately, there's like far-right militias, but there's also Jewish militias, there's militias from all different backgrounds there. Unfortunately, there's far right militias,

but there's also Jewish militias, there's Chechen militias, Belarusian militias, there's an anti-fascist militia right now that is just gathering steam. So everybody is coming together and are like, right, we're fighting, we're not having any support. They're going side by side, so you would have potentially a Jewish militia

and a Nazi militia fighting shoulder to shoulder. Potentially, you could, it's happenedentially you could, it's happened before. Yeah, it's happened before. It's a weird situation and it's one that people jump on, but I've seen weirder things happen in war. You know what I mean? And like I said, a lot of the rules got at the window. All of the internet analysis is irrelevant completely.

You know what I'm saying? Not that, you know, I mean, the far right element is horrific. I think it's awful. But it is, it's not, you know, I mean, the president is Jewish. He was voted in with a 73% majority at the same time that the far right parties formed a coalition for that election. They got less than 3% of the vote.

So the idea that the whole country is not true, but the idea that, you know, the Nazi element is propaganda. He's also not true. It is a serious problem, but like I said, it's a very diverse country. There's 44 million people live there. It's huge. There's people all over the place. But it's the guerrilla warfare element of it. I think we'll really see that if they start taking big cities because a lot of the citizen militias will probably go, I didn't sign up for this, I'm leaving, actually. but a lot won't. A lot will go to ground and they'll set bombs and they'll, you know, they'll start doing assassinations. Not because, you know, well, Ukrainians are special,

that's just how it happens, you know, I've seen it in so many different countries. And when you have like a unit of people like that that are well armed, I think Ukrainians, the 20 second most armed country on earth. They're not just going to go out. There's only 44 million people there. Yeah, and there's a lot of guns. A lot of weapons are coming in from the West and they'll make their own stuff. They already are. And a lot of these people are war veterans anyway. They're primed for this. They're ready. So I think you're going to see, unfortunately, like really horrific, brutality, but again, it's war, you know what I mean? And if someone comes in and takes their

city, who's to tell them they're not allowed to resist that in any way possible, you know what I mean? How much of this, because you've kind of identified that when an invasion begins, this sort of more primitive primal demeanor takes over the people that are being invaded, but it seems to me like the Ukrainian response has been pretty intense. I've seen Alexander Usik in full military gear. Yeah, I've seen Vladimir Lumachenko. One of my favorite boxes. Unbelievable boxer.

I mean, I wouldn't wanna get in a hand-hand combat with him, but why are you rolling around with it? So my point is just that so many people have taken up arms in one form or another, how common is it for the heavyweight champions and literally every body that can pick up a gun to do that? Is this part of Ukrainian culture or is this again just part of the course when you get an invasion? No, no, there's a great question because

yeah, like I mean, if that happened in Britain, I obviously, you know, influences would not be picking up guns. I'm sure, you know, and Joshua stood there with an AK-47 on the white curse of Dover. But like, you know, maybe fury as well, like, but I think most, you know, influences would be kind of hashtagging themselves and thanks for the support, like, you know, maybe fury as well, like, but I think most, you know, influencers would be kind of hashtagging themselves and thanks for the support. I doubt, you know, the militias would form like that. I think the Ukrainian culture is quite specific in that they've been, again, it's an amalgamation of all different people. I think that, you know, that it's a very, very old history.

I think it's like 800 AD, the Keevian roots was like, you know, that's where Kiev kind of started. It's a very old culture. And they've been invaded, you know, they were under occupation. They've been, well, you know, they were part of the USSR for a bit. There was a lot more horrific massacres from the USSR. There was Nazi, you know, the Nazis invaded as well. Unfortunately, there was like a lot of Ukraine collaborators as well with the Nazis. So it's just a mad country with like, not mad, I mean, like, oh, they're mad. It a mad country with like not mad, I don't mean like all that mad. It's just like a very kind of, I don't know, like an interesting culture

of like resistance war, horrible war crimes, you know, massacres, it's just in their culture. And I think they're at a stage now where they're just like, we already have the basis, we know what's coming. So we're not going to, you know, we're not going to accept it anymore. And I really like Ukrainian people like in general, like they're very kind of stoic, but very fun people, very funny, very eloquent people. I keep seeing all these idiots, like kind of strange internet people that are like, isn't it, isn't it convenient

that this guy came up with this one liner? Oh, it's clearly propaganda. It's like you've clearly never been to Ukraine, because the people are coming out with that all the time. They're very funny, very sharp people. Sameer Russians as well, like very similar culture. Russians, great people. I think it's sad that the way... There's a really disgusting current happening right now.

For example, earlier, I saw that the Glasgow Film Festival had canceled two screenings of two Russian films. Nothing to do with the Kremlin, not propaganda. Like, what are you doing? Why are you persecuting a normal Russian person for something the government has done? Look at Boris Johnson, in my opinion, he's horrendous. Imagine if people then started saying, oh, no, Brits are loud here. You know what I mean?

You would be like, oh, that's unfair. I think you have to look at it like that. But yeah, to answer your question, I just think that it's part of their culture. There's a lot of weapons and they've been at threat for war from a long time. And since 2014, the war in East Ukraine has been active. You know, people seem to forget that last year, I think more than 50 Ukraine servicemen died on the front lines. Now, people say, well, that's not a lot.

Well, it was meant to be a ceasefire. It's quite a lot, you know what I'm saying. So, you know, the media, there's this thing now that, oh, suddenly, people care about Ukraine, it's like, well, only for the last two months. For the last eight years, the media has not been that interested, you know. I remember going there and making frozen war,

you know, the frozen conflict documentaries and people, one like died the day we were there sort of thing, you know, like after we'd left and that. But, you know, it's just like, yeah, it's been an active war, and now it's an even bigger war, now it's just, it's just like, yeah, it's been an active war. And now it's an even bigger war now. It's just, it's in their culture and it's, you know, they're tough people basically, you know. If he was some of the other celebrities that I might have missed off that Ukrainian people

that have joined, have you seen some others? I see, I see, I see Lama Chenko. I've seen, well, he's not a celebrity, but the former president, what's his name? Anyway, I don't know about it. The former well, he's not a celebrity, but the former president, what's his name? Anyway, I'm out of the former president. He was in Poland, I think. There was some kind of dispute between the current president, some kind of theatrics, the current president wanted to arrest him for something. So he was in Poland and he came back.

But when the war started, he just came back, handed his passport in and was, you know, filmed on the streets with a rifle. He's quite an old man. Maybe that's just for show, but maybe it's not. How much truth was there in those stories around 80 year olds, X, service men turning up? Was that true? Oh, yeah. I mean, yeah, without a doubt. I mean, that's, that's got, I've seen a lot of like post-Soviet stage, just old lads, just like, right, let's go, you know, they've done it. Yeah, I wouldn't say that that's not true, definitely not. How useful there'll be in a war, I don't know, you know,

because perhaps they're not so mobile, but fair play to them, you know, they're out there. Yeah, yeah, definitely. We interviewed a 61 year old man at the training a week ago, and he was like, yeah, like, he was a Microsoft, he worked for Microsoft, he was like an IT engineer, and he was like, look, I'm learning to, you know, use a rifle, I'm learning to do this just in case.

So there's definitely, you know, as much as people don't want it to be true sometimes, you know, there's a lot of very tough people that are just, I think the West has this weird perception of like, tough people are like Rambo and big guys with tattoos, it's like, no man, like the most unissuming people I have met like guerrilla fighters, you know, if they were in their normal clothes,

you would just, you know, you wouldn't pass them in the street, you know, and it's these are the people that really come to the battle, it's not about being a big guy, it's about, you know, having integrity and they wanna fight for something, and a lot of people, you know, unfortunately, it's war, but a lot of people do actually flourish in that.

Yeah, my friend has a buddy who's a weightlifter out in Ukraine, and he's been sending me some of the communications that he's had back and forth, just Facebook Messenger or whatever. And it's the most recent voice note that he had was maybe the start of this week, and he said, they're not letting guys through at the border, so my only goal now is to send my daughter away somewhere so that she's safe and me and my friends are going to get some guns and we're going to fight. I'm thinking that's he's just some bloke. Yesterday or whatever, but one week ago, he was just some bloke that had a daughter and a family and interests and fears and goals and dreams for his life. And now he's, it's like this weird sort of cultural conscription that's gone on that he's

wanted to be a part of or I don't know, I mean, maybe you resign yourself to this fact. Have you got any idea about what the response has been like to the restriction of men being able to leave at the border and how severely that's been enforced? I mean, it depends. I mean, the first the first day of the invasion, the lab that I was working with, the local journalist, the fixer, we would call them, you know, a field producer, whatever, Sir G, Slit Genko, a really good lad. He's got two young children and a wife and he was like, right, I need to get them out, you know what I mean, he's like, I'm gonna go with them. He's a dad, he's not a fighter, which is fine.

Like, you know, everyone has to be, he does his own bit. And he was like, I'm getting out, and he got out, okay. I know a lot of men that have got out as well. There has been footage of people getting turned back. You know, there's been some really awful footage, actually, as well, of Nigerian and Indian students being told they're not allowed on the train like Ukrainians first and people saying, Oh, well, of course it's Ukrainians first. I'm sorry, that's wrong. That's wrong. If there's someone in your country, there's students, they're working there, whatever, that's the citizen. You treat them the same. You should do. I get it. War isn't like that. Unfortunately, not everybody can be be nice like that but it doesn't mean you ignore it you know what I mean it's racism essentially that was bad really bad and but yeah there's a lot of people

kind of have got out as well I'm not sure how true that is to kind of touch on your other point though like yeah it's it is really interesting that's why I've always mostly my career I've been covering what's called like a regular warfare so not like you know not armies on armies but like rebel fighters people like what what you know it not armies on armies, but like rebel fighters, people like what, what, you know, it's happening in Ukraine. People where a war comes to their doorstep, and on Monday, they were the postman and on Tuesday, you know, they're a militant. The same thing happened in Syria, you know, the same thing happens in Palestine, the same thing happens in Afghanistan. These people all have lives, these people all have aspirations, dreams, they're normal people.

And it's a really weird thing now. I don't mean director that you were told, but there's a weird thing now where people like oh They're Ukrainians wow, they were just not and it's like well. Yeah, that's been happening You know that's been happening and half the reason it happens is when you know Our countries end up bombing somebody, you know, and it's like well, they were normal people and now they're a fighter and they're a terrorist But this one isn't it's like the one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist. Right. And you know, there's a very, I'm not trying to be like too tricky here. I'm I'm sure people will be, oh, what about is him? It's not what about is him. It's just, it's like, you know, there's a very clear, different in perception of what's going on. You know, I've,

I've met rebels in Kurdistan, I met rebels in Palestine that all have, you know, they do the same thing we do. They play station, they see girls, they like football. The first question you get from a Rebel when they find out you're from Britain is which football team? Every single time which football team does support? So it's like, yeah, people are normal everywhere. But not to take any attention away from Ukraine, I think it must be covered. And like you said, these are just normal people.

Unfortunately now, a lot of them are gonna die as fighters or just civilians, they get bombed. And that's the real tragedy, you know. Well, obviously Ukraine's very heavily armed, whatever it is, 22nd most armed country in the world, 44 million people live there. Where are these guns? Are there huge warehouses?

Are they being distributed by some sort of central authority, the army helping with distributing these guns to the militia? And also, is there somebody that's managing the militia in terms of movements and stuff like that? Sort of. I mean, again, when this kind of war happens so quickly, mass whole country invaded, like a lot of it goes out of the window. I know that there's footage of, you know, I think like the second day or the third day, so they have what's called the territorial defence, which was what I was filming with, citizens that have no military experience, mostly that just getting trained by people with military experience, kind of telling them, this is what to do if

we get invaded, you know, guerrilla movements, checkpoints, how to listen to orders, how to hold a gun, how to fire it. They were all immediately called up. I think they weren't actually a lad told me yesterday, they were on the street, immediately in Kiev. A load of them didn't need to be told, they just went right, I've got my training. So a lot of people have guns, they have firearms.

It's not like America, but a lot of people do have firearms. A lot of people have been buying up firearms before this happened. So they just took their gun immediately went to the street. I think by like day three there's videos of the military Just turning up and saying anyone wants to go and come and get one Which is maybe not the best idea with the long run, but I guess when you're you know, no one's coming to save them They're not gonna help them. They know that you know I guess you know, what can you do? Open the back of the truck up and just leave the magazine, grab a rifle, grab a

crack out. Yeah, and the post war, you know, era will be very interesting to see. And a lot of people say, no, it's really bad. What's going to happen after? But it's like no one's thinking about that. What do they mean? Why is it going to be bad? Because you've got like, you know, loads of militias all armed, currently unified against

Russia. But when that's done, what's going to happen? You know what I mean? They're not just going to go, oh, okay, we'll put the guns away. Probably not. I suppose that you can't just turn aggression on and off like a switch. Yeah.

And there's going to be certain factions that won't control of this area because I don't know, 50 of their lads died fighting there. And women, there's women as well fighting. And then it might be one group that's like, well, we don't like your politics. We're going to kill you now. You know, it happened in Syria. I don't want to compare the two because people are doing that a little bit too,

kind of willy-nilly. But you know, that did happen in Syria. A lot of groups once they'd chased out one threat, kind of infighting happened. You know, it's just natural human behavior, you know, and there's no reason that that wouldn't happen in Ukraine as well. But again, it's like, let's focus on what's happening now. You know, there are children dying, people are running out of food,

and no one's coming to help. You know, I mean, there's the West is sending weapons and stuff like that, but not that I'm not advocating for a big, like large-scale intervention. I mean, that would be crazy, I think, because no doubt that would cause a much broader war in the whole of Europe, which nobody wants. But, you know, Ukrainians have realized that it's them, you know, it's all on them. We spoke to a young woman that she just said, like, we need to be ready. I was just editing actually the dark and she's like, we need to be prepared first before, you know, and she was like, all the brains are here, meaning like the Ukrainians are here already. That's what we need to rely on.

And I think they understand that. Yeah, it's just in terms of like the mobilization, there are, there are like essential command essentially that is saying, like, right, this unit out there, this unit there, but it gets very messy, you know, and a lot of the malicious kind of act autonomously. And it's understandable to a degree of you here, all the soldiers down there, right, let's go. Go to the soldiers, yeah, exactly. It's not gonna be sophisticated,

pin some movements with people stacking up against walls and stuff like that. Yeah, I mean, dude, I mean, this is, it's interesting that you say, oh, this is nothing new, you know, we've seen this a million times before. This is literally what you specialize in in terms of reporting. But this is the first time that I've seen, you know,

just people, civilians, band together, and trying to create some ad hoc army that is mostly self-propelled, self-disciplined, self-taught, it's wild. Yeah, I mean, I think the difference is less attention was put on the others. But I wouldn't say, you know, a lot of people say, no, the media didn't care when it happened in Syria. The media absolutely cared when it happened in Syria.

You know, I mean, there was loads of reports there, you know, several journalists lost their lives. There was a lot of media attention, not enough, and there's not enough now still, but, you know, the media definitely did care. And that's what happened in Syria. That's what happened in many different, it's what happened in Sudan, happening in Sudan last year and the year before. It's happening in Eritrea, it's happening in Eritrea, country near there.

But yeah, there's a lot happening all over the world, but I guess people are just more focused on this because it is Europe, you know, I do understand that people are like, why are people so focused? It's like, well, if you live in Europe and you're just, you know, you're an all person going about your life, you've got stuff to do, you've got worries, you've got bills, kids, this that and the third, you're obviously going to be more worried about the war that's closer to you. You know, it's just human nature. That doesn't mean you're a bad person or you don't care about people from a different

country. It's just the way it is. I think people are trying to do these big, self aggrandizing tweets and all of that. Why don't people don't care about these people there? It's like, look, people care because Ukraine is a four hour plane journey away, you know, and at the end of the day, there has been some awful things though in the media. Like CBS News had some guy on the other day and was like, oh, these, these are not, these are, um, he didn't use the word savages, but he said like, these are civilized people.

Yeah, I saw, I saw that. Like what the hell are you talking about? Like the Middle East is like just one of the, like most incredible places ever. These are civilized people. Yeah, I saw that. What the hell are you talking about? The Middle East is like just one of the most incredible places ever, like poetry, you know what I mean? Like just incredible infrastructure, smart people, learning, language, food. Is if like this place was some kind of island

where people didn't exist before. So I think there's a real problem with that. People coming out with idiotic things like, oh, these are refugees with blue eyes and blonde hair, like, the hell does that matter? You know what I mean? Like, that's that is in my opinion, it's internalized, well, I'm not even internalized, it's mask off racism. Yeah, well, yeah, when you're criticizing the Nazi militia and using that in the next sentence, there's like usual brain, you know? Yeah. Have you got any idea how much support this invasion has from Ukrainian public people?

Oh, not none. I've got a friend, I've got a friend whose family is Ukrainian, Russian speakers, and they're happy about the, they see themselves as, yeah, they see themselves as a part of Russia. Well, people in the east, yeah, like the, so there's, there's a lot of, that's true. Yeah, I should, yeah, I would say in Ukrainian, they don't, they don't consider themselves Ukrainian, you know, but like, so it's sure, like in the East,

there is a lot of, you know, the, the Russian back Separatist regions. There's a lot of people there. I mean, the thing is though, I keep hearing this Russian speaker thing, it's, they say, oh, they, they don't let Russian speaker, everyone speaks Russian in Ukraine. And they, so Ukrainian is Ukrainian is one language, Russian is another. Yeah. And most people speak both.

I'd say most people speak Russian. Yeah, like the idea that it's... Whether you're a separatist or not. Whether you're separatist or not. Yeah, yeah. And yeah, most people speak Russian. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, like it's crazy.

There's this idea that, oh, they hate Russian speakers. It's complete myth, like utter myth. There was, I think, to be fair, there's this idea that, oh, they hate Russian speakers, it's complete myth, utter myth. There was, I think, to be fair, there was some ridiculous decree came out at the very height of the war when it started in 2014, where I think someone in the government was like, we need to not allow Russian speaking, whatever. And then it very quickly was kiboshed. It was like, don't be ridiculous.

Don't be so stupid, and that was done. But that was it, you know what I mean? Like, the idea that Russia is on all the signs, you know, it's like everybody speaks Russian there. I'd argue that it's most people's first language, you know, in Ukraine. They speak a mix as well, like, they'll say one sentence in Russian, one sentence in Ukraine.

That is not the issue. The issue is that, yes, there's a lot of people in the East that identify as Russian. That's their problem. It's up to them. No one can tell them they can't. But these Russian backed separatists in this region, I've been there, I've been to that side. And there's this idea that it's some kind of like Russian socialist utopia like it's really not. It's very grim, it's very totalitarian, there's no like free media there or anything like that. There were faking loads of, on the lead up to this invasion, there were faking all these insane videos where one that sticks out specifically, they filmed like a body in a burnt

out car. But the skull was all pulled back and you could literally see the incision like lying in the skull where clearly there'd been an autopsy on that body already. They'd taken it out of the morgue you know, they'd taken it out of the morgue. Yeah, yeah, they'd taken it out of the morgue. And there was a lot of weird things going on like that. When I was there and the Russian backseparate decided, they basically like fake the shoe out. Like there was like, there's going to be a shoe out. And like within five minutes, there was suddenly all of the minders that were with us didn't have their flat jacket and held me on, despite them telling us there's going to be a shoe out. And then when we got back, we looked at the front lines where we were and it was like we weren't even facing the right direction, you know, it was very odd.

So you know, there's a lot of propaganda there, not to say that Ukrainians don't do anything like that, but generally it's the Ukraine, look, the aggressor was in the East, I don't, you know, it's not a political thing to say. The Ukrainians over through their government, there was a revolution, and then Russia took Crimea and exited, there was a battle there, and then the separatist rose up, and there was a battle there, you know,

it is what it is. But no, I wouldn't say that, I wouldn't say there's a lot of support. Yeah, in the East, that's a good point. In the East, the people that feel that they're Russian, and they're only allowed Russian TV channels there. You know, they can't get Ukrainian TV channels. So they've just been fed like state media for a long time.

And they, you know, and it's up to them if they want to live in a Russian state, sure, that's fine. But I would say the vast majority of people in Ukraine are not for this. And also, I'll be honest as well, actually, another thing that a local reporter showed me, there was in telegram channels when Russia was putting out all this propaganda,

like this fake stuff. There was a lot of people in the Donbass region, Russian speaking, pro-Russian, they were commenting and they were like, this is nonsense. Like, we know it's nonsense. Russia doesn't care about us, not that they like Ukraine, but they're just like, Russia doesn't care about, they're just using us, which is I think accurate. You know what

I mean? So there's people aren't all one entity, but yeah, I mean, look, kids are getting killed right now, and the whole country is in chaos, and 500,000 more people have fled. I would say that any support is drastically diminishing for the Russians. How about in Russia in terms of the people that reject? So I've got a guy who's in my local community and they posted earlier on this week. So while I still have the internet, you never know these days, quick update on what was happening here yesterday in St. Petersburg, massive anti-war rallies. I'm fine since I'm a fast runner, but a lot of people were arrested, peace hoping for the best. Yeah, it's really, I mean, you know, I think there were a thousand people arrested for just standing

in the street peacefully saying we don't want you to go to war with Ukraine, you know. I think I'm getting really annoyed about as well as the media just saying the Russians, the Russians, I get it, I get it, it's easy, I've said it as well, it makes sense, but sometimes you have to put it into context, you know, you talking, I saw a map earlier, I think there's like, there's like 20 different anti-war rallies happening this weekend in Russia, you know, Russians are very, I've never met a Russian that I haven't got on with, they're like, I know that's just personal anecdote, whatever. But still, there are good people, there are lovely people, very cool, very good culture.

The idea that they're all suddenly just going to go, okay, yeah, let's kill everybody in Ukraine. No, they're not. But I will say this, I think there is more people that are in favor of the war than is maybe projected in Western media. The Western media is obviously kind of this united front you're seeing right now of like, oh, the Russians don't want this, the Russians don't want this. It's like, yeah, a lot don't, but a lot either don't care or they do want it.

There's a lot of pro-poutine, and even if they're not pro-poutine, they're like Russian ultra-nationalists that do want this to happen. So, yeah, there is an element of that. But it's the same with any war, you know, it's just nobody is no one's a monolith, you know, but I don't know, I don't know any percentages, but I would just, I would definitely say there were probably hundreds of thousands of people in Russia without a doubt that they're completely not for this. I saw a thing in Siberia earlier, people just like, you know, pro-Ukraine, like, sorry that we're invading, our government's invading or like, you know, pro-Ukraine, like, sorry that we're invading our governments invading or whatever, you know.

This, I wanted to talk about the way that the press, the corporate media, social media individuals have been putting this forward, because this is the first time that I've seen a conflict that's essentially been, like the apocalypse has been live streamed by a TikTok. And, I mean, I've seen, from your stuff, popular front, I've seen TikToks of how to destroy and drive tanks. Separate. How to drive it if you catch one. Yeah.

There's some girl in a pair of Balenciaga's and a cool Adidas pair of Tracky bottoms in there going. So you flick these switches on and then you press this button and then you, and then there's her driving along in the tank so What would you say? Have you seen anything that's particularly Unrepresentedive or egregious with regards to corporate media in terms of what they've been saying from on the ground

Because I've got a lot of friends. I spent a good bit of time in Texas at the moment, right? Texas is very skeptical around Pretty much everything that comes out of at least where I am around corporate media. There's a lot of people that are saying something doesn't seem to add up with what we're seeing. I'm not convinced that what's happening on the ground is actually what's going on here. And I think that the implied subtext there is that I don't think that the invasion is as bad or whatever and it's being blown up. I think generally what this shows is just a complete distrust, like an absolute 100% distrust for whatever you see,

whether it's a carryover from the last few years around Hunter Biden's laptop story kind of being pushed down, that was to do with Ukraine. Trump is a Russian agent in 2016, and then that, so on and so forth. So I'm wondering whether that has contributed a little bit, but certainly people just do not seem to be particularly convinced around what has been put forward by the press. So give me your thoughts on what we've seen so far

and what's being good and what's being bad. America. I think America is its own beast. I'm going to insult a lot of Americans, I don't care. I think the problem with Americans are they see themselves at the center of every story on earth. How can we make this about us? So instead of seeing a child bond and killed, they go, how can I make this about me? Oh, I don't trust this. I don't think it's real. Well the mother is crying and her kid is dead. So I don't really care, I don't think it's real. Well, the mother is crying and her kid is dead. So I don't really care if your brainworms don't allow you to think this is real. And trust me, I have a lot of problems

with legacy corporate media myself, having been through it and seen a lot of weird stuff. Nothing conspiracy, just like bad behavior, whatever. But generally, I think people are doing a pretty good job. You know, I have friends out there right now on the ground dodging bombs and bullets, a pretty good job. I have friends out there right now on the ground, dodging, bombs and bullets. A cameraman died today. He got struck. Abba Yaa, which is a Holocaust memorial and Russia bombed right near there and they killed a cameraman. So when people are like, I don't believe it, I just think fuck you, you know, like I because my friends are there right now, you know what I mean

It's very real Is does someone have an agenda sure everybody on earth does not interested for me I'm interested in the people on the ground, you know what I mean? I've been getting equal Hey again from Americans there was some weird thread today where someone was like don't trust Jake Hanrahans reporting because of and it was all just like weird American radical politics Centris central Selfishness, you know, they're all like I think this how can I make this about me? And it's actually repulsive, you know, I was talking to a friend today and we're speaking about it

And we were calling it like a timeline support, you know like people or how can I make this about me? Well, I'll tweet something about this. It's been the same with every war. It was exactly the same in Syria. And as well in Syria, Syria was exactly the same, like in Ukraine, as in terms of normal people, you know, in Adidas, Strak suit, doing the same things. I've seen Syrians before this, telling people how to use tanks and armored vehicles.

It was on Instagram before, because TikTok didn't exist. The Arab Spring was primarily broadcast via Twitter when Twitter was like really useful because a lot of their internet was shut down by the dictators and their countries and they went to Twitter and they found ways to bypass the ban and they just they just sit and put in everything on Twitter. So really the Arab Spring was probably like the first real kind of social media war in that sense. But yeah, it's this whole like, oh, I don't trust this, I don't trust that.

I don't trust a lot of things as well, but you tell me that you basically, like if I told you a secret right now, like it wouldn't be kept, you know, like you can't keep a secret between three people and it might be the most basic thing. Are you telling me hundreds of thousands of people from media organizations all over the world are in on this, doing something fake and not one of them has exposed it? You know, it's nonsense. Yeah,

there's a big problem like, like you said, Hunter Biden's laptop because like liberal media was just as bad as a conservative media for covering their own ass. We just want to project, American media is its own beast. own beast, I don't think it represents journalism very well at all. But that was because of political infighting and we must be the ones that this, that, and the other. It's not because of some conspiratorial thing, it's just selfishness at every degree. So I think they're all a part of the same thing.

I mean, you're seeing the same on the other side, Fox News are acting like this isn't a big deal. They're scum, they're a children dime dying to act like this is just fake and I just find it so awful. And again, it all comes down to American exceptionalism self-centered. How can we make this about us? Oh, we don't trust this because of that. No one in Ukraine cares if you don't believe it, you know what I mean?

Like, they're dying, they're fighting. So, and it's not all Americans, definitely not. It's just that American media bubble. Like, most Americans are completely normal and they're like, you know, they're fighting. So, and it's not all Americans, definitely not. It's just that American media bubble. Like most Americans are completely normal and they're like, you know, they're fine. But I think that media bubble that's getting amplified unnecessarily is just actually sickening and selfish.

How are people in Ukraine? A lot of TikTok, you've mentioned Telegram a bunch. Is that one of the primary modes of communication? Yeah, Telegram's one of the primary ones just because, Yeah, telegrams, one of the primary ones, just because, I mean, there's less censorship on it. I mean, Jesus, I mean, my platform popular front, we've got like, I think 400,000 followers now, and we get centered all the time.

I mean, when we're reporting on ISIS, we have to put an exclamation mark instead of I. So like, I, S, exclamation mark. But that shows, I mean, there's stupid thing about that. It's so rudimentary, like it's such a dumb solution. Do you think you have to do it as well? What have you guys thought about starting up your own telegram channel

so that you can communicate stuff? We have, we have one just in case, but essentially the main broadcast, everyone's on Instagram, not everybody's on telegram, you know what I mean? And to be fair, I actually spoke to somewhere on Instagram a while ago, they kind of hit me up and were like, yeah, you've been on fairly banned. There was reasons, there was a certain nationality, didn't like the reporting, you know, someone working there decided we shouldn't show the plight of the

Kurdish people. So we got, we got a lot of bands and they kind of told me like, look, I've kind of put a thing on your account, it's going to be okay now. And to be fair, it's been good now. Like we haven't been banned, you know, it's okay. Yeah, yeah, so it really comes down to that. We have been shadow banned, which, you know, it's very funny, Instagram says isn't true. I think there was an investigation recently that showed it was, there were different rules

for verified accounts, stuff like that. And yeah, so there's all that, there's censorship, you know, but anyway, I don't wanna make it about me. Yeah, but I'm doing the American thing now. But to go back to your point, yeah, so there's all that there's censorship, you know, but but anyway, I don't want to make it about me Yeah, but I'm doing the American thing now, but to go back to your point. Yeah, Ukrainians are using telegram Instagram Twitter, you know, mostly telegram. I think though Instagram a lot now as well. Instagram's like a big one Luckily Facebook or not censoring them too much. What's the sort of stuff that they're talking about? I mean, is this troop movements is this I've seen a sort of video of an image of how

to where to throw a Molotov cocktails at Russian tanks, weak points, vulnerabilities and stuff like that? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think that was actually made by the government. Yeah, yeah. So the Ukrainian people are very tech savvy. There's a massive IT industry there, like absolutely massive. My uncle, like two weeks before the war was like helping set up some IT firm there.

He works for an IT business. And now they've all had to come back, you know what I mean? But there's a massive IT fee kind of vibe there. It's like very, there's a lot of hackers like big time hackers. I saw some hackers that got into the like I think the Russian power grid You know, they were like you know posting that information on that so everybody's doing their bit people that don't want to fight with a Go in a fight and there's a massive Cyber war if you want to call it going on right now, which is going largely undocumented which is understandable because

It's quite hard to understand and the main focus is on lives being lost and physical force, you know, campaigns. But there's a massive like cyber war going on. There's civilians that are like blocking roads, barricades are being put up, you know, everybody's doing their bit and it comes down to that. So when they're sharing stuff, it's generally like, it's either like, look what's happened. We need to, because obviously that's like one of the most essential things. Tell the world about this,

otherwise it goes unnoticed. And the other thing is, yeah, like sharing techniques, you know, like you said, infographics on where to throw the Molotov, but I'll be honest, I don't think that's, it's not that useful that to be honest. I mean, you can, you can actually, it can be useful, but it'd be very hard to time it.

You know, I saw a video, this may have even been on your, on one of your Instagrams. Some of them was in the passenger seat of a car and the driver, or maybe this was from the driver, and they were driving past the tank and they just had a Molotov cocktail here and just sort of, like you would, like with a tab, you know, you'd have finished up, oh, I finished this and just chucked it out, but I'm pretty sure that they caught a little bit of the, is this the same video?

Is this the one that I sent from you guys? Yeah, but that's just some bloke or some girl just casually throwing a Molotov cocktail out at a tank that they're driving past. Yeah, yeah, I mean, I've seen it happen hundreds of times, In person, a great example is Turkey, the way the kids do it there, they'll get, they'll turn up with a hold-all, like a bag, and all the beers that have drank that week, they keep all the bottles,

and they're handing them out, handing them out, and they line up. And when the military vehicle's coming, it's like one, two, three, so like 50 molotovs hit the thing at once. That is useful because sometimes it hits the right point and it actually burns out the vehicle. There's videos of like, you know, Russian military jumping out their vehicle on fire, sorry, the Turkish military in that part of the world,

but there's also a lot of it is more like distraction, you know, and it wouldn't be very, if you're in an armored vehicle and you just see flames everywhere, you're gonna be like, right, out, I'd better get out. So I think it's more helpful for like distraction techniques and just showing that aggressiveness is there. Like, you know, and I think that there's a level of resistance that needs to be kind of sustained if they wanna, if any guerrilla or rebel force whatever wants to be successful

because they essentially need to make it a quagmire for their enemy and it just needs to be. I remember in Kurdistan, they were digging trenches in the road. The Turkish police and military would come out and just fall into a ditch in the road. They're like, the tiniest things, putting out little things to pop the tyres, putting sugar in petrol tanks, stuff like that. You know, it's gonna come to that level of like rudimentary guerrilla warfare, I think. Another thing that I think we'll start seeing,

which has been quite big in the Middle East, you know, like a DJI drone, right? You know, like they feel. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So people in the Middle East have worked out how to like hook up like little grenades to it. So they can just flow over your house and like and drop it. You know what I mean? And you're like, what's that? Boob. So you know, that was really effective in Iraq because it was more effective psychologically.

Don't get me wrong when they landed. If they landed right, the ISIS were putting more around on it actually. But when they landed right, obviously people died. But the the sound, people with zzzz and people would just scatter. You know what I mean? It's the same thing as the sniper, right? That it's so pervasive, you don't know when it's coming, it's this ambient anxiety, it makes troops move forward more slowly, all that shit. Yeah, definitely. I've felt that personally with like, when you hear there's a sniper around, you hear the crack, it's like, where? It's so horrible. Even a mortar around is so indiscriminate really, and you just sit there and it's like, you just wait, obviously I'm not a fighter, I'm just

getting down. So you just hear that, it's like, and then you wait, and then it lands somewhere. And that is horrible. And yeah, a lot of that is psychological, you know what I mean? Because eventually that wears people down. And I think if Russia really plans to occupy cities, I'm not good luck to them. You know, definitely not, but I think that's gonna be a real, real pain for them. And a lot of these soldiers, man, even the Russian soldiers, look, they chose to list,

well, some of them are conscripts. But I've seen, there was footage earlier of, like they caught a Russian soldier, he's like 18 years old, he looks like a kid, and they let him call his mom, you know, the Ukrainian's court, and they let him call his mom, and he's drinking tea, and he starts crying. You know, he, you can just tell, he's like, what am I doing here sort of thing? You know, not not to say that there isn't some really nasty, you know, special forces that are killing people right now, but I'm just

saying like a lot of the troops there are just, just kids, you know, and they'll, they'll get to a point where they just get demoralized, you know, I think already, I've heard a lot of the troops there are just kids, you know, and they'll get to a point where they just get demoralized, you know, I think already I've heard a lot of them are a little bit demoralized already because I think they're like, I mean, Kadeerov, the kind of, I don't want to call him a Chechen leader, but the figurehead of Putin put into Chechnya, he sent a load of Chechen forces to fight Ukraine. And he, like the next day he was on video call or something like, he does Instagram lives or something in his Prada boots.

And he was like, oh, I didn't know that Ukraine has so many weapons. And he's like, you can tell just from that phrase that I think he's a bit like, oh Jesus, I think they've been sold something that they didn't expect. It's so strange. I'd never really thought about this before with war that I think maybe because

thinking about World War I and World War II, it was pretty apparent that most people that went to war backed the idea of what they were fighting for. You know, you didn't want this fascist totalitarian state to come and kill all of the Jews and try and turn it into the thousand year rike. But now you have much more transparency around information. You know, for the first time, well, maybe not for the first time ever. Again, this is like me stepping into your world, which has been going on for far longer than like the last week. But you have an ability for infantry, army guys on the ground to understand the geopolitical motivations and machinations of why something's happening. So you now actually have the ability for someone to ideologically

be averse to something that their loyalty suggests that they're supposed to go and do. Right. Why am I fighting? Before it was your commander said go there, what are you gonna do in World War One? Look at Twitter, no. You know, yeah, no, it's a great point. I think as well, you've made a good point there because I'm talking at this from like, I'm a nerd.

You know, like, I'm a reporter, I'm very focused on war and conflict, obviously that's most of my career, but I'm also very interested in the very minute detail. That's what we do on popular front. We try and go really, really detailed to bring out, make more sense to people. Sometimes people do that in a way that does the opposite, but we try and make, we're like,

no, we go into detail because then you understand things better. For example, there's very specific details like when was with certain fighters that are like a guerrilla movement. I found out that a lot of the kids in the inner city urban guerrilla movements were carrying an extra pair of socks in their pocket. Why?

Because they put it over their trainers because they're all masked up. So when the military are filming them, often they would line them all up afterwards and look at their trainers, they're like, right, this guy, this guy, this guy. So people carry an extra pair of trainers. They're putting socks over their trainers, you know, very rudimentary,

but very smart way of like hiding from, you know, from, from the military. So it's like for me, I'm very focused. I know that. But you're exactly right. Like most people, why should they? They don't have the time. Well, they're not interested in it. It's like, yeah, no, you're right. It's like this idea that, oh, why, why people surprised?

Yeah, of course they're surprised, you know, of It's like, yeah, no, you're right. It's like this idea that a white, white people surprised. Yeah, of course they're surprised, you know, of course, because it's more in focus now. But yeah, that's a great point. Yeah, it's like a lot of Russians, obviously, Russians are very educated countries as well. You know, a lot of soldiers must just be like, Jesus Christ, you know, like there is no way

that like every Russian soldier is some kind of poo in loyalist, it's just of course not, you know, the same way a lot of the militias that are now fighting for Ukraine are not government loyalists, you know, like I said earlier, there's an anti-fascist group. There's a group of anarchists that I actually filmed a documentary with a few years back. What they did in Ukraine was they go about like beating up Nazis because like, you know, there's a Nazi street scene there.

So the anarchists were going to beat them up and stuff like that. Now they're like, okay, there's a Russian threat. We're going to we're armed up. We're going to fight all these idiots on the internet. They're like, oh, what's so called anarchist fight for the government? They're like, no, we're not fighting for the government. We're fighting for our right to exist. When that fight, when that threat is gone, then we'll go back to like working at how we can live in this environment. But right now, they're aware some of them are actually like Russian dissidents that have been imprisoned in Russia and came to Ukraine They're very aware what's gonna happen to them if Russia does take the whole country

So they're saying no, you know, we're fighting again. It comes down to this thing of some like Absolute like political Esoteric nerd on Twitter has an opinion and it's like you don't know what it's like out there You know these lads are just like I the one of the lads the anarchist lads the day they invaded I was like like what you doing He's like I've got a gun. I'm in a taxi. I know, these lads are just like, one of the lads, the anarchist lads, the day they invaded, I was like, like, what are you doing? He's like, I've got to go and I'm in a taxi. I'm going to a list right now.

Like, no, no, no question. You know, and he's like, I'm not fighting for the state. I'm fighting for my people. But for, you know, like, I feel like that is in Britain. I don't like the state. I'm anti monarchy. And I despise the conservative part.

And I also don't like the others as well. But if a war came here, I'd think, well, if I don't know, if I would, I'd don't like the others as well. But if a war came here, I'd think, well, I don't know if I would, I don't know if it would be brave enough, but I think, well, am I going to fight for the state or the Queen? No. I'm going to fight for my neighbours right to be safe, you know, and Britain is more than the government or the media. That's absolutely right. What the state and the monarchy and your leadership and the flag, they're all just distillations of what it means to be a part of the country and it arises in different ways, whether it be state, whether it be

monarchy, whether it be nationalism. But yeah, I think that makes sense to me. It's not hard to understand, right? I don't know why people find it so hard to understand. Like people are, oh, what, there's anti-fascist fighting and there's also fascist battalions. It's like, yeah, they don't like each other. They just both have a threat come into them for different reasons. We have an idea. They dislike the people trying to kill them more than the people that they're ideologically opposed to. Right. They can go right. The thing is, in war, a lot of

realists really find their place in the world because they're smart and they go, right, put that on the break for a second. Here's the immediate threat. You know, if someone's coming at you with a knife and then another guy is coming at you with the fists, you're probably going to want to take the guy with a knife up first. You know, then you'll do with this lad with the, you know, whatever, because the guy with the knife's probably going to kill you. You know, what I mean? So it's like not to say that the fascist threat is not as dangerous, but it's dangerous in a different way. It's not as immediate right now. And it's also a lot smaller. You're talking about like a whole country invading you versus a couple of thousand people, you know what I mean? So yeah, I don't

find it hard to understand. The same way that, you know, in my family, we have people that are like black, black British, they call themselves, a racist would find that really hard to understand. And it's like, well, yeah, because you're a scumbag. You're a racist. You know what I mean? It's like, that's hard for you to understand. But there's a lot of people that it's obviously not hard to understand. It's not just yours. You're flagged. You know, you anarchists in Ukraine are not fighting for their flag. You know, they don't even have a Ukrainian flag. They've got an anarchist flag. They're fighting for their people, for their neighbor. And for their right to exist freely in the land that they were born and raised on most of them. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I'm sure

a lot of people do who cares. These people are under threat right now and people's political takes are not important to them. Nor should they be. What should we expect? Do you think over the next few weeks? Jesus, man. Every day is something crazy. Like, just before we came on, like I just said, I was just chatting to my pal there, and he was like, just heard a boom right near to where we are, like in a hotel area, there's near an I-Bist,

like a hotel. There is this kind of long gone is the era of like, reporters being able to be like, oh, this hotel is the safe one, then rules are gone. I mean, they barely existed anyway. But not that, I mean, who cares? The report is not that important compared to the people. But my point is, I think all bets are off sort of thing.

Right now, the Russians have control over like Chernobyl, basically, or at least they are very close, and they did have it controlled for a while Today they moved in close to what is I think Europe's largest nuclear power plant Not though. I'm not saying we're gonna get nukes nothing like that's gonna happen But I'm just saying like Accidental destruction of that infrastructure could be very bad for a lot of people You know, I just think that the after the kind of shock effect of just that level of fighting is going to be really bad date that it's a video last night

It's what's called a MLRS fire. It's like multiple launch rocket system And it's just like Shots, shots, shots, shots, shots, like you know like constant barrage of rockets completely in the indiscriminate who knows what that's going to hit You know what I mean? I mean doing that kind of stuff in Chernobyl or around this this plan. It's just so dangerous I think we're going to see serious serious civilian casualties I mean, doing that kind of stuff in Chernobyl or around this plan, it's just so dangerous. I think we're going to see serious, serious civilian casualties. I don't want to predict anything, but I think right now it's like, I think 130, 136, I think the exact number is, but obviously that's had to exactly qualify.

But I think we're going to see that triple without a doubt. If it carries on at this speed, we're going to see that triple. I think there's peace talks tomorrow, you know talk of a ceasefire, but generally Like the last ceasefire talks was last week and it was Russia just used it as like a troop rotation, you know And they'll do the same. So I think I think the West doesn't really I think the West has had a real shock here It's like finally I think they now realize like, oh, Putin is not playing our game. Like he hasn't been, you know, and I don't want to give any credit to Putin,

but he's been saying for a long time, like, oh, if Nate removes this way, then we will do something and it's like, now he has, I think that conversation is now actually relevant. Like I said, people are dying and there's a war on and that's not gonna reverse. But yeah, it's like, I don't know, I just think that this was a long time coming, really. But again, I was naive, like I said, I didn't think it was going to happen the way it did,

but it was coming sort of thing. You know what I mean? You do think LeVubz, sorry, Kiev's going to fall. Yeah. I just can't see how it won't, unless there's a ceasefire agreement, which I just think is not going to happen't, unless there's a cease fire agreement, which I just think is not going to happen, they're making real incursions. They're in the, like the Oblast now, which is like a borough. I mean, Kiev, Oblast is like the borough of Kiev, you know what I'm saying? So they're on the outskirts essentially of Kiev.

They're not in the city center yet, but they're not far. I think they're like five kilometers in that world, less than that. So they're not far, you know, I think they're like five kilometers in that world less than that, you know So they're not far away I just don't see why they would stop unless they just realize how bad that will be for them due to gorilla Conflict, but I don't know but they're gonna go through that and then what's next what goes next after? Keke I know I who knows, you know mean, right now, if you look at the country, there's a pincer movement kind of forming. So in the south, I think Odessa,

forgive me if I'm getting these wrong, I've looked at so many maps. But they're in Odessa, they're coming in from the east as well, over the Deneep River in the north, and like, kind of slowly coming around, you know? Like a chrysan. Yeah. And they're also a bombsaurin, when bombsaurin went off today in Levy, which is very far west, you know, like a christen. And they're also, the bombsawin, when bombsawin

went off today in Levy, which is very far west, you know, and Bella Rousse is talking about they're going to come from. There's a little break away region in Bella Rousse called, sorry, in Moldova called Transnistria, which is like some weird region that Russia controls and has done for a decade now, I think. And they can stage troops from there to finish the pincere off to make it whole. I'm no military strategist by any means at all, but just looking at the maps, it's like, if that's even remotely accurate,

they're gonna end up surrounded. There's not a lot of Ukraine left. Right, there's not a lot of borders. Yeah, there's not a lot of borders. Well, I mean, Ukrainians have control over most of the country still, but yeah, there's not a lot of borders. Yeah, there's not a lot of borders. Well, I mean, Ukrainians have control over most of the country still, but yeah, there's not a lot of borders left that are not having movements coming. However, when you see these maps, I should say this as well. I'm kind of going to go back on myself a little bit now.

When you see these maps and it shows a pincer, that's not, them lines are not, that's not how the lines are. You know what I mean? There's not like every inch is one troop, you know what I mean, there might be five miles with no troops. Like the other day, Russia tried to form a PINTS movement, I think around Harkiv, and you know, there was an area where there weren't enough troops there or for whatever reason, and the Ukraine just blasted through, surrounded them, you know, and they came away through it. It's very fluid. It's kind of a misnomer to say front line because it's never really a line. You know what I'm saying? It's not like trench warfare anymore. No, it's very

spread out. It's very spread out now. Yeah, like for the last eight years in the east or released the last six years when it was more in a ceasefire, it was just trench warfare. It was very weird, primitive, like World War II vibe actually. It was very odd there. And yeah, like every so often they called it like a creeping movement. They take a kilometer, and then the kilometer would go, but now it's like, yeah, it's all spread out. It's like, if you pour a bottle of water down, it just spreads out everywhere, you know what I mean?

And then if you wipe it, whatever it goes back and forth, it's like that. It's fluid, but I just can't see that Putin's gonna, what's he, he's not gonna start this and lose face. I think that's the problem. It's like, he's not gonna start this and lose face. I think that's the problem. It's like, he's not a guy that wants to lose face. He's like 70 this year, he's getting old, he wants his legacy.

You know, I think he's gonna get it in his mind whether he has to, you know, just kill everybody or not. He said, I think he said the other day, like, what's the point of a world without Russia or something kind of, you know, inferring that like, I don't know, like we'll just wipe everybody out. I think Lavrov, his kind of second in command was talking about nuclear stuff again the other day, put in two weeks ago, was in France saying, um, basically, like, if you dare trigger article five of NATO, like, he mentioned, I can't remember the exact

words, I don't want to quote it, but he basically inferred, like, we will use a nuclear weapon, whether they will know it was something like like was it a force and counter attack the likes of which the world is seen. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, that's very Trumpian, I guess, to say that, but. Right, but it's Putin. Yeah, yeah, yeah, unfortunately, it's, you know, yeah, it's worrying actually it is.

I don't want to like alarm anyone. I don't think you know, I keep a lot of friends I have around here, like, we're like, well, what do we have? I No, no, relax. It's not easy. It's not that. Like, you don't worry. Like, we're not going to get bombed in, like, the Midlands or whatever. But there is like a genuine, I think, reason to pay a bit more attention now, because it's like, okay, this could, this could spiral out of control quite quick. You know, how would you spiral out of control? Well, yeah. Right. How? That's a good question because we're nobody really knows.

But for example, the other day, Kirstaama was kind of saying, oh, we're going to talk about a no fly zone. Like I really sympathize with Ukrainians, but if Britain starts implementing a no fly zone, what are they going to do? Shoot down a Russian jet. Great. Then we're then we're in war. You know what I'm saying? It's like, that's no not like, you know, I'm sorry, but no, like, that's not a good idea. Not to say that, you know, what can you do? You know what I mean? This is a bit of a rocker place. So, uh, Constantine Kissin, who does tree andometry, is Russian Ukrainian by birth. And anyone that wants to get a good primer, who, from somebody who understands the background of this, go and check that out, I'll link it in the show notes below. One of the things that he said was, you've got a world where people have been making for

a very, very long time a lot of war with words, and there's been a lot of threats and incentives, disincentives, ways to try and push people back. And a lot of it's been bluffs. You don't know whether you, if you try and call it, whether that person's gonna put their chips down on the table or not. But when push comes to shove, somebody basically asked him in the live chat,

at what point is the West going to step in? And he said, okay, so let's say that all of Ukraine does fall. When are you going to send in and he said, okay, so let's say that all of you, Kren does fall. When are you going to send British troops? When are you happy? You, when are you happy to go and fight? Are you happy to go and fight when they invade Romania? Or what about Estonia? Or what about, you know, just pick the line. Is it Germany? Is it France? Like, pick the line. Where is it at which point do you want to put people on the ground? Yeah. Saying you don't get to go any further? Is it Kiev, is it Levov, is it, you know?

It's it, yeah, I mean, it's, like I mean, I wouldn't want to be a politician right now. I wouldn't want to be a politician ever. But yeah, it's like, what do they, what do they do? You know, I don't want, you know, I don't want dragging like Brits into, or anybody, you know, and you're dragging them into a war. But yeah, it's like, well, what if the war comes to us first?

It's like, I think again, I don't think that will happen, but I didn't think this was gonna happen, you know? So, you have to be very careful because I don't wanna be alarmist because, I think, I really think that it would definitely, I do think negotiations after Russia has had, or I shouldn't say Russia, after Putin has had his kind of feel of blood, you know, I think that it would,

it just wouldn't really make sense for them to, well they're gonna trigger NATO and then they've got all of 27 countries or something. The rest of the world. You know, that really will be a world war, that actually will be, it's like, are they gonna do that maybe? Maybe they will, but I don't know, I really hope not.

I think the problem is, it's like you said, it's all words right now in it, and it's like, we I don't know, I really hope not. I think the problem is, David, it's like you said, it's all words right now and it's like, we've got to remember as well, let's scale it back. We're one week into this invasion. It feels like a lot longer because of the constant media attention, which is completely relevant and warranted. But let's just calm down a bit, I think. Like, let's relax.

Don't worry, there's not going to be a world war, hopefully. I mean, you'll air this when we're We're at war got that I've got that clip. Yeah exactly. Jake had a hand say Idiot, but I don't want maybe they will be but you know, I think That's probably a long way off, you know, I hope so I mean Jesus Christ But if they do take all of Ukraine, which you know, they're gonna try it's not like they can then I mean They only have a certain amount of soldiers, you know like they're gonna they're going to try, it's not like they can then, I mean, they only have a certain amount of soldiers, you know, like, they're going to, they're going to do that, but they're going to be bogged down in a war for a long time in Ukraine. My thought is maybe it's useful for Russia to have a long, sustained war in Europe.

Maybe that's useful for them. Maybe that's really, that puts them on a different footing, you know, and it's, they know that, they know that the West is not going to Start attacking them in Ukraine, you know what I mean? So I think that hopefully, you know It's a full bad say to say the city crannies because obviously it's bad for them, but hopefully it just stops there But yeah, is there an element of this where it's useful? Again trying to be as sensitive as possible to the fact that there's hundreds of people dying and country being invaded.

Is it in one way useful for the West to finally see that Putin is prepared to put his money or his guns, where his mouth is, and that this could be a little bit like an inoculation against thinking that he is all just words, And then perhaps upscaling our response or our readiness at least to him. Yeah, I get your point. I mean, I don't think he's ever useful, but I totally get what you mean. It's like what it has been is a wake up call, right?

You know, it's been a wake up call. I don't know why it's all of a sudden. But you know, this isn't the first, you know, people, it is a very big conflict, but what about the Balkan Wars? That was a massive war in Europe, you know, when Yugoslavia collapsed. That went on for a long time, and it was very brutal, very bloody, you know, NATO-Bombs Serbia got involved there. Russia is in a different place right now, as they were back then, you know. I don't think that would run really for NATO to do something like that anymore. But, yeah, I think the wake up call, I think Europeans need to realize that war isn't just

something that happens to people over there that are different color to us. It's like, no, I mean, firstly, most of the war is there because of us over here in health and safety, and we did whatever and invaded their countries. But it's like, yeah, no, I think a lot of people are realizing, oh, okay, that's, all right, yeah, that can happen. Like, yeah, I think we were in this, I don't believe in the concept, but there's this weird concept of like the end of history,

and I think a lot of people were lulled into that idea that nothing that bad can happen again here. You know, and it's like, it can happen here anytime. You know, like, I don't think, I think we got a little bit too comfortable maybe. Not that there's anything wrong with that. We shouldn't, we should want to live in peace and we should feel peaceful, but everybody should, you know. And I do think that I've seen some quite horrific gloting from countries that I've been at

war, not to blame them because you don't know what their life has been like after like U.S., like bomb them or whatever, you know what I mean. But again, it does show that like, yeah, they're realizing like, now you lot realize, you know what I mean? And it's not even our doorstep really yet, you know what I'm saying? It's Western European, you know, areas are obviously quite disconnected from Ukraine in a way. So yeah, it's like, it is a way cut cool. I saw the other day that like, I think Germany said they're going to put like a billion into like the fence spending or something cut cool. I saw the other day that like, I think Germany said they're gonna put like a billion into like defense spending or something like that.

I could be wrong, but it was a lot of money, you know what I mean? And it's like, yeah, very clearly. I mean, Britain, I don't know, like Britain, I think like we had some of the lowest people signing up to the military the last couple years, like the lowest numbers, you know what I mean? And I imagine that, you know, I'm a Britain and other countries,

it's not because they're worried that we're going to get rid of our Russia or anything, but I guess they must be people thinking right now, like, hmm, okay, we need to do something else, you know, just in case. What are you creating? What's your plan moving forward? Are you going back out there? I do want to, but I'm older now.

When I was younger, I was like tapped. I think I wasn't like brave. I was just, I was tapped. I think I wasn't brave. I was just like, this is my career. I'm not from an academic or journalistic family, just from a very normal family. And I was like, I've got to make my mark. I have to really go all out with this. I will go to any front line.

And I did a lot of crazy things, not crazy, but I can see the now a little bit too risky. So now that I'm older, I'm like, I've got responsibilities, my family needs me. So I'll be honest, I know it's selfish, but I am starting to think, do I am I gonna go back out? But I do want to go back out.

I definitely, what I am interested as I mentioned earlier, I'm interested in these anti-fascist battalions, there's a Jewish battalion. I think that element of the war is quite what my company does, like popular front-hour organization, we focus on the under-reported stuff. I think that would be really valuable for us to do that and to show the world, like, hey, it's not just far right, it's not just whatever, it's all different people. And I think that would be valuable reporting, which it's like I would consider the risk, you know,

worth doing, but you have to measure it on like, when, you know what I mean? Like things are happening so rapidly now, I have a lad that has worked with me on my team before he's going out on his own freelance, not for us, because I was like, no, I'm not sending someone off to that, but he's gone on his own and he just went straight away. And I was like, look, don't do it, wait a week, not for us, because I was like, no, I'm not sending someone off to that. But he's gone on his own and he just went straight away and I was like, look, don't do it, wait a week.

He's okay, but you don't know what's gonna happen tomorrow the next day, you know? Like we've just seen a rocket striking key of yesterday, perhaps we didn't think that was gonna happen all the day before maybe we didn't think that would happen, now it has. So I think I'm going around the houses here. I'm trying to like justify to myself.

Well, I think what you're showing is the internal turmoil that you're going through, right? The reason that you don't have a strict answer is because you don't know one. I don't know. I think the very least I'll go to the podium's border and from the refugee situation, I think that's important to do.

I know a lot of people out there that are really helping collecting, doing a lot. Yeah, it's a tricky one, man. Yeah, I don't know. I think for me, I think I just want to wait because not just because of the risk, but it's like it would be quite hard to do the story I want to do right now because it's so fluid. They're like, hey, we just formed our unit. They don't want a journal being like, give me an interview, you know, like, and they have

quite strict like rules because, you know, like, and they have quite strict like rules because, you know, they are their own unit, but they came under the territorial defense, this kind of, you know, this umbrella of like militia forces that the government has kind of started. So they do have to follow, ironically, they're anarchists, but, you know, they're realists. So they have to follow certain rules and that, you know, so I think for everybody's sake, it's like, do I need to be there right now? Probably not, you know what I mean. But my mate who's there now, he was like, don't come. He was like, it's very hard to work. And it's just not worth it, you know.

So we'll see. But hopefully, I mean, no matter what, if it goes, I mean, if this goes on for a year, there's no way I'm not going back out, you know what I'm saying. But for the moment, I think I'm going to do what I can from here and help people out there that I can, you know, we raise some money as well. We raise like five grand to give to like civilians on the frontline that need medical aid. There's a lot of people doing stuff like that.

I think that's a good thing to do. You know what I mean? You know, I'm a reporter about the end of them, a human being and it's like, and I've done things for this in other countries as well. You know what I mean? Not just European countries. So I think that is probably best efforts are there

and just like showing the world what's happening. There's best I can try and avoid all the, I'm getting so much hate right now, like it's just from everywhere, trying to, trying to stay not unbiased, I don't believe in total obnoxivity, but trying to just be like, here's what's happening. This is a clear thing of happening. This is happening and this is happening. You know, people, why are you saying that? Why are you saying that? You're making us all look far right now. I'm not, but I'm not going to ignore the fact that there was a situation at the border where Africans weren't allowed across the border.

I'm not going to ignore that. I am not your PR. You know, a lot of people don't realize that. So I am not a press agent. I'm a reporter, I'm a journalist, and that's that. And then on the other side, you know, there's people going, why are you showing that there's an anti-fascist force? We don't like them.

I don't care. It's like this is my job, you know. Oh, you're like, you're pro NATO. Why? Because I don't care. It's like, it's my job, you know. Oh, you're like, you're pro-nato. Why? Because I don't think that a country should come in and kill children. Like, you know, it's just a lot of that. So it's quite stressful at the minute,

but it's nothing compared to what people are on the field. You know what I mean? Well, doesn't that show the fact that it's really difficult for people now after spending so much time attaching narratives and ideologies to things because we've got this sort of completely transparent communication medium that nothing can be just a thing, nothing can be just an incident, an action, everything has to have an ideology or a narrative or an

agenda attached to it. And that's what people, it seems like they're doing. Yeah, exactly that, exactly that. And I do, I hate to even moan about it because it is so unbelievably irrelevant, the second you log out, you know what I mean? But at the same time, it's relevant in the sense that where we get all our information is on the social media now. So it is a, I mean, I have people like, I have people like messaging me on my personal,

like Instagram just like, you know, like you piece of shit, you're scum, like it's like why? Like, you know, like some guy the other day was posting something, he's in like some weird, like you piece of shit your scum like it's like why like you know like some guy the other day was posting something He's in like some weird like hyper political group whatever and he's posting some like bizarre thing from some kind of Political guy in Russia about why it's okay for them to go and kill everybody basically and like he just had some like really issue with me And I had it I agree. I like fuck you and then I messed him off Which is like you know what you're ever in London. let's have a drink, you can call me the CIA,

it's all good. I mean, like a lot of these people are angry online, but in real life, firstly, a lot of them are not that brave. You know what I mean, not that much of it. You never meet a hater in real life, man. Right, I'm not saying I'm a tough guy, but certain things that the golden rule, right? Like you check shit, get banged,

this you know what I mean? Like that still exists. And then secondly, it's like a lot of these people are probably not as bad as they seem. You could probably sit down with them, but the internet is no longer the place for that. I think advice to myself, maybe into other people is just ignoring. I'm just blocking block, block, block, block. I don't want to deal with that shit, man. I just want to do my job. If that makes me CIA agent, Nazi, pro-crem- whatever, you know, whatever it is, like, so be it, call me that,

I don't care, it's fine, like, it's all good. I've been to the frontline and it's like, what am I gonna do, be like, hey guys, you're risking your life, but look what this guy's saying about you on Twitter, like, thing like what? I don't care, you know what I mean? So you have to get perspective, you know what I mean? And these people think they're so important

by going on these long dialogues and blah, blah. And it's like really they're not. The irony is that a lot of these people that were talking about like, oh, the left liberals or whatever or the right wing, whatever, they wanted their moment of fame, they're always talking about themselves. Now they're doing exactly the same thing.

How can I make this war about my ideology? It's all the same thing. Left, right, up, down. It's like, who cares? You know, we have a saying and it's kind of corny, but we say popular front is for the people. That's not really politically charged. We just mean like, we care about the people on the ground.

We care about what they're going through. And we'll kind of try and represent that feeling in our reporting more than, so angry on the Instagram, you know. Tell everybody where they can go if they want to support what you do and when this, when's the film going to come out as well? Don't ask me that. Oh, is the edit an ugly one? No, the edit is held because things are changing so rapid, you know, but hopefully this weekend,

you know, hopefully Sunday is like the latest. Will that be on the popular front YouTube? Yeah, yeah, so it's youtube.com slash popular front, all our documentaries are there. We have a podcast as well. It's just search it, you know, whatever. If you go to our website, poppularfront.co, you'll find links to everything. And if I can, I just want to say we're completely grassroots. We take no funding from corporations just because I've seen it muddy the waters with things

before and I decided when I launched this I want it to be funded You know grass roots so we have a patreon, you know subscription service There's a lot of extra content there patreon.com slash popular front and we take donations and we have we have sponsors But only from people we know that don't fuck their workers over, you know That's just a personal kind of position that we have So yeah, man if people want to support they want to look us up just popular front Instagram is probably the best place right now because everybody seems to be flooding there. That's popular dock front. And yeah, man, we're just putting stuff out all the time.

We do make mistakes now and then as everybody does with human beings, we have a very small team. There's like four of us, you know what I mean? Like constant. But we're doing our best, and we're double checking things. And I think, you know, I think we're doing quite well. I appreciate the work that you do, man. Good luck with everything that's coming. Really great conversation, man. Like, that's really things, a lot of things that I haven't really thought of, so I really appreciate that. My pleasure. Dude, stay safe. Cheers, mate. Thank you, mum.

I'm fed.