Modern Wisdom - #618 - Destiny - Why Are Liberals More Depressed Than Conservatives?

Episode Date: April 22, 2023

Destiny is a streamer and a YouTuber. The clash between left and right has reached unprecedented levels and the divide continues to widen. With increasing confusion and despair among young people, blurred identity lines, and individuals grappling to find their place, mental health is in tatters, but for some reason it's much worse for liberals than conservatives. Expect to learn Destiny’s thoughts on his debate with Milo Yiannopoulos, his best tips to beat someone in a debate, why the landscape of political back-biting has changed, why liberals are so much more unhappy than conservatives, the societal implications of women out-earning men, what mistakes young people when judging what will make them happy, whether AI will take my job and much more... Sponsors: Get 10% discount on your first month from BetterHelp at https://betterhelp.com/modernwisdom (discount automatically applied) Get 20% discount on House Of Macadamias’ nuts at https://houseofmacadamias.com/modernwisdom (use code MW20) Get $100 discount on the best water filter on earth from AquaTru at https://bit.ly/drinkwisdom (discount automatically applied) Extra Stuff: Subscribe to Destiny on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@destiny  Follow Destiny on Twitter - https://twitter.com/TheOmniLiberal  Get my free Reading List of 100 books to read before you die → https://chriswillx.com/books/ To support me on Patreon (thank you): https://www.patreon.com/modernwisdom - Get in touch. Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chriswillx Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/chriswillx YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/modernwisdompodcast Email: https://chriswillx.com/contact/  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the show. My guest today is Destiny. He's a streamer and a YouTuber. The clash between left and right has reached unprecedented levels, and the divide continues to widen, with increasing confusion and despair amongst young people, blurred identity lines and individuals grappling to find their place. Mental health is in tatters, but for some reason it's much worse for liberals than conservatives. Expect to learn Destiny's thoughts on his debate with Milo Yinnopolis, his best tips to beat someone in the debate, why the landscape of political backbiting has changed, why liberals are so much more unhappy than conservatives, the societal implications of women out earning

men, what mistakes young people make when judging what will make them happy, whether AI will take my job. And much more. what mistakes young people make when judging what will make them happy, whether AI will take my job and much more. I really enjoyed my weekend with Destiny. Some of you caught a live debate slash panel thing that we did at the Vulcan Gas Company Comedy Club. Alex Jones, Bulldin, very drunk and I've started shouting at Destiny. That was quite funny. But yeah, it was a good weekend and I really appreciate Destiny's work. I think that he is a very well-meaning and well-balanced debater. And yeah, I think you'll really enjoy this one.

Also, don't forget that I'm going on tour later this year. And if you want me to come to a city near you, all that you need to do is sign up and tell me where you live. We are going to be rooting the tour based on the cities that we get that sign up and that means that you can influence literally where I go. So head to chriswilliamson.live, enter there and it means that you'll find out first when tickets and show dates are announced. I thank you, that's chriswilliamson.live. But now ladies and gentlemen, please welcome But now ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Destiny. Here's the first thing we're going to do, okay?

All right, so I'm starting to take a little bit more interest're gonna do, okay? All right, so I'm starting to take a little bit more interest to my parents, okay? Why do you get, okay, so I noticed that I feel like men look really good when you're kind of like sitting in a chair, sports your back, you know, up like this, right? Real proper posture.

Why do you guys have these like deep seated fucking chairs? We like, especially for shorter guys like me, look at me, look at me in this. This isn't me sitting in the back. This is intentional. Okay. What are you like six, two? I'm five eight.

It makes me look like a fucking like the stay puffed marshmallow guy from fucking ghost busters. I think you do this should intentionally just to get one over on your guests. Like you've already got me mentally fucked. No, not a podcast. Not at all. I'm not trying to do that. Uh-huh.

This is not it's not discriminating against anybody below five eight. Okay. All right. Did you see the Elon BBC interview thing where they did the usual put them on a stool, making feel as uncomfortable as possible. The stool still had the price tag on it. Nice. I didn't ask you that. I didn't know. Is that like part of their just presumably BBC's tax pay funded. So they're like, we're not going to allow any money to be wasted. We'll take the stool back once the richest man in the world sat in it.

Damn, not good. I just see, I saw like a two or three minute clip of that. And he wrecked him. Who wrecked who? Elon wrecked that BBC guy. Oh, yeah. I don't like Elon very much. So we might, but he's got to concede every so often that he does win.

Yeah, no, he definitely has a lot of wins. I'm very big on like, when you confront people with things, I say this all the time, bring examples. It's something I talk about a lot. Whenever I'm talking about an idea or an ideology or a theory or whatever, I'm always like such as, and then I'll give like one or two or three examples because it's really important to ground out what you say.

Otherwise, you can just, people give like the most superfluous advice that sometimes like, what the fuck are you talking about, right? And it's like give like an example or two so you can understand. And when the guy did it to Elon, he was like, oh yeah, are you talking about? Right? And it's like, give like an example or two so you can understand. And when the guy did it to Elon, he was like, oh yeah, like racism has increased all of the platform. And he was like, well, how?

And it's like, at the very least, I think there was one organization that did a study saying they measured, like, so you could have at least brought that up, but he's like, well, in my feed. And he's like, really, where? And he's like, well, I haven't used my feed in six weeks. And he's like, well, how did you know? And he's like, well, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I,

and it's like, you don't even have one example. What are you doing, dude? Yeah, no, but I've noticed that you ask people for definitions a lot. So it's like, what, how did you know? And he's like, well, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I was like, you don't even have one example. What are you doing, dude? Yeah, I know, but I'm noticed that you ask people for definitions a lot. Yeah. So you say, what do you mean by that? Yeah. What do you mean when you say that term?

Mm-hmm. And that's kind of the same. Yeah, so they were like on the same thing. Because I want to have like a real conversation. I'm a huge fucking preach at the fucking camera. I'm in front of my stream for eight hours a day. I could do that. Like, I'm talking to somebody.

Let's have like an actual conversation. So it drives me crazy here. How did it feel to have Milo Unopolis make Richard Spencer seem reasonable? You know, perhaps your Richard Spencer for either hiding his horrible ideology or doing genuine reformation. I'm not sure what she's doing. I take people, I meet people where they're at.

Milo is, I feel like I understand Milo pretty well. Maybe. What does he? Who is he? No. Man, my chat made fun of me when I said this, but I feel like Milo,o pretty well. Maybe. What is he? Who is he? No. Um, man, my chat made fun of me when I said this, but I feel like Milo, I want to say Milo, for a brief moment in time, was like one of the top three

to five most popular political punny people in the world. In like 2016, right, in that era. He was going to colleges, he had books out, he was everybody knew him, all over the world, he was making everybody mad, he was on this like alt-right, such Trump binge, and then man, that pedo convo really just did a number on him. He just, yeah. At the beginning of the spiral down, did you see the vlog where he flew to Hawaii to try

and throw his engagement ring into an active volcano? And then the Hawaii local environmental organization said, we don't let people go and throw personal possessions into active volcanoes. So he got a bottle of vodka got on a rented a boat and then was drinking the bottle of vodka showing how expensive the ring was on his phone before he blink just threw it into the Pacific. I did not see that. That was a sad, sad vlog to watch. Cheers. So where is he now? Who is he now?

I think he's just desperately trying to carve out some political niche. And right now it seems like that's like this Christian nationalist thing. But he like exists solely in these strange spaces on Telegram. He has no social media anywhere, because he's banned from everything.

And he doesn't really have like a coherent political ideology or lifestyle or platform or anything. So he's just like, yeah, he's like grifted into this very, very niche, weird world where he's trying to like make some kind of name for himself, but it doesn't seem like it's going too well. It seems to me watching him against you, and then also I've seen him do a couple of other little interviews over the last couple of years. It's kind of like watching a punch drunk boxer trying to get back into the ring one last time.

All of the, he did have kind of charm, it was a real trolley charm, but there was something like whimsical and kind of funny and sort of subversive about what he used to do. And then it was so just like icky and gloves off, but not in a ruthless way, kind of in a scrappy, scrabbling bottom of the barrel way with that debate with you. And then you bring up one point, there's one bit of pushback that you get, like one legitimate piece of pushback,

which was still couched quite a lot for the people that haven't seen it. You brought up the thing that he was canceled for as he started accusing you of like having kids that were going to be future pieces of files. Yes, not that. You're like, this is not the stance for you of all people to take. And then that immediately just broke his brain.

And I thought, dude, like if you're going to fucking dish it out for 50 minutes, at least be able to take it on the other side. And he couldn't. So it really just, I don't know, it's like the death throws of of some fucking old singer who's touring again and doesn't can't hit the high notes. Yeah, that's basically how I view it now. What has changed then with the landscape that means that Milo is no longer, is it just that that kind of trolley alt-right stuff is not cool anymore?

Yeah, so something I give myself a lot of credit for is I've been doing online content now in a fairly relevant way for about 13 years. And in order to maintain at a level to where you're still occurring new followers, where people still want to look at you for what's going on on a modern day, you kind of have to adapt to the changing kind of like political landscapes. I'm sure stuff changed fast in the past too, but man today on the internet, political movements will come and go in like one to four years depending on the movement. Milo definitely thrived in this kind of like alt-right explosive era where trolling and attacking college kids and being as provocative as possible and pushing back against the SJWs,

you know, that's what we used to call woke people back in the 2016 days. That was like the height of what he did. But I feel like he never really adapted past that and he's still kind of like looking back towards that. You know, like you said, like he's got like his provocative attitude and all of that. And he's got his, you know, I think Manor speaking, he copied from like Hitchens, always like, you know, this, this oration style, but he doesn't really have any stuff to say anymore.

Like, no offense, but like, are we're really looking to my logie andopolis for the ideal Christian type of lifestyle and now he's super pro-censorship, and it's just very strange. I did a debate in Qatar about masculinity about six weeks ago, and they put up a montage of a bunch of different people commenting on how feminism had gone too far.

The fucking first person was my logie andopolis. I I had to kind of couch it and I was like, look, after that was Rogan and then there was Peterson and blah, blah, blah. Guys, if you have brought me here to try and defend Milo Unopolis, I'm like, that's not the job that I was sent here to do. Like, there's criticism so we can have about all sorts of stuff. Like, don't, I'm not gonna jump on that bandwagon.

Another thing that's interesting is how are you talking about how quick political movements come and go? Like Milo and Nick Fuentes, I would doubt it's the shortest relationship in history. Yeah, I'm gonna be honest, I called all of that. I told these motherfuckers that when the yay stuff popped up, that this is gonna be like a two to three month thing, and it felt like Fuentes banked a lot on

yay being like his new explosive reached the public. And I think Milo also was like looking at like his way back into fame. But yay, he's done this before, right? Where he wanted to run for president, I think in 2016 and he came and went in like two weeks. And then he repeated like the same thing again, I was like, how are you taking this guy seriously?

But I love Hitler guy who has no foundation for any political belief whatsoever. Yeah, it was a short relationship, it was dumb. I don't know how much you follow on Telegram. No, not much. These guys are fighting like crazy. Like I think Fuentes just dropped yesterday that this guy called Ali Alexander,

who was the leader of the Stop the Steel Movement. It's like a pedophile or something and that Miley and Oblis was defending him. And I think Miley and Oblis, a few days ago, is trying to drop things proving that people are ped- It's so much crazy to find a pedophile or something and that my Lee and Uplis was defending him and I think my Lee and Uplis a few days Goes try to drop things proving that people are pet like they're so much craze Everyone had a file. Yeah, but that's always like the go to I think where everybody are do you know the word nonz Do you know what that is? I mean like stupid in British or something non-says pido. Oh, I didn't know that okay

Yeah, so you'll see if it's ever anybody in England that's accusing someone else of being a pido would be that Wasn't there something didn't Nick Fuentes say that Milo is taking Perkiset to stop himself from being gay? Isn't he meditating himself out of his homosexuality? That's what he says. So when I'm writing stuff on this on people, I like sources, I only need screenshots,

I need videos. These guys are making a lot of claims to show that. I have to say any proof of anything. So it's really funny. Like, I'll probably repeat some of it if I'm trying to trigger some of them. But is it actually true? I have no idea.

I mean, Fuentes, I watch Fuentes, too. I think it was either yesterday the day before. And he's like, I heard from people who were working with Milo, and they have no reason to lie. Tell me about this and that and it's like, couldn't be more- Yeah, I like him. I'm on the source.

Yeah, give me at least like a screenshot or something. Yeah. Talk to me about being on stage when someone like Milo really tries to sort of take the glibs off, it seems like you can keep your cool, which I think is a pretty impressive thing to be able to do. Is that innate? Is that something that you've developed? Do you ever get asked for tips on debating and what would you tell people?

I've always been like a really cool person. I don't know why. My transition, I worked a job when I was 17, 18, I worked at McDonald's, okay, lovely fast food restaurant. I was so good at handling irate customers that somebody in line there noticed and then recommending me for another job, but a casino that I worked at, where I also worked at Graveyard Shift because I could handle a lot of irate customers. I've always been good at just dealing with people that are just like, this is dumb, like

whatever. I don't know why I've had that skill baked into me for a long time. Now when I run into people like that I have to be very strategic. I have to think a lot about how I'm supposed to deal with it because my background in internet shit talking is huge and that's very very fun for me. Like if somebody wants to roll around in the dirt I will gladly like let's have like a two hour screaming match. I would love nothing more but it doesn't really look good on me. So I have to be like very measured. There are a lot of things I wanted to say to the dirt. I will gladly, like, let's have like a two hour screaming match. I would love nothing more, but it doesn't really look good on me. So I have to be like very measured. There are a lot of things I wanted to say to my own. I have to like pick my spots very carefully.

Why didn't you do that? Two reasons. So one, in the 2016 era of politics, the way that you communicated strength to people was through like destroying people, like screaming at them, you know, going hard, like, oh, you're so fucking stupid, blah, blah, blah, blah, like that's how we did it. And that's whatever, you know, that's why, that was, you're so fucking stupid, blah, blah, like that's how we did it. And that's whatever, you know,

that was where my come-up once was, was like being that really like loud, unruly angry, kind of left-leaning person that would destroy people. But then, 2020 onwards, now the way you communicate strength is this like, quiet, stoic type of like, manly, like, nothing affects me. So now when I'm like dealing with people,

the way that you deliver the insult has to be like, it's gotta be like a bit more cool, a bit more collected, a bit less emotionally impacted. So I kind of have to now when I'm like dealing with people, the way that you deliver the insult has to be like, it's got to be like a bit more cool, a bit more collected, a bit less emotionally impacted. So I kind of have to think when I'm navigating conversations, like I have to attack him because he's obviously saying some wild shit and it would be really funny and I have good attacks, but I can't attack him in a way that makes it seem like I'm upset. So there's like a whole like strategy to like dealing with people that are like really trying to needle you, you know. Why do you think the landscape of what is being cool or being assertive or being powerful has changed? Is this just a trend that for a while

it was cool to be the outgoing Gregarius one and therefore there's like a flip club which is the opposite of that or is there something else going on? Because I know exactly the thing that you mean, it's almost this kind of like sadonic, a loof stand-offish kind of like cynical kind of thing that's you mean, it's almost this kind of like sadonic aloof Standoffish kind of like cynical kind of thing that's going on. What's happening there? Um, man, I don't know. I just I follow the internet trends. I don't know where they come from

Pretty pervasive though, you know, you look at Twitter. No one's ever like calling somebody out directly It's always sub tweeting little snipes and jibes and sarcastic comments Yeah, I truly have no idea. I'm not sure. I don't even know if it's real sometimes very strange like eating little snipes and jibes and sarcastic comments. Yeah, I truly have no idea. I'm not sure. I don't even know if it's real sometimes. It's very strange.

You exist in kind of these man-o-spear spaces. Something I hear a lot of people say things is like, oh, to be really emotional is feminine and to be a man is to be stoic. The only way that statement works is if anger isn't included as an emotion because man get very angry sometimes. I'll see some people talk about the importance of stoicism and stuff, but man, when they're going off on women, they're very emotional, but they very angry sometimes. So I'll see some people talk about the importance of stoicism and stuff, but man, when they're going off on women, they're very emotional, but they're angry emotional.

So that doesn't count. So I don't know, the whole world is kind of silly, but I have to keep in mind like how do people view me? How do I represent myself? So it's something I just have to try to keep in mind. But I don't know where exactly it comes from or why people are where they're at and current media trends online.

Speaking about the Milo and Nick explosion or implosion, it seems like pretty much every other political organization, like the Young Turks versus the entire left, Crowder versus Shapiro, DeSantis versus Trump, like everything just seems to be kind of falling in on itself, the trans movement versus other parts of the trans movement as well. What's that in, if you got any idea about what's indicative of that or why it's happening?

There's two thoughts I have. One is a thought that Spencer brought up in my conversation that people need like an enemy. I kind of wonder if without a strong rallying figure, everybody just kind of like turns on themselves. So personally, I think Biden is doing a really good job as president for a variety of reasons. But Biden is not like a character that most people want to like either die attacking or die defending. He just doesn't inspire like that kind of like,

yeah, Biden, you know. So people on the right, you can't really hate him as much as like you could like Hillary Clinton. And people on the left don't really want to defend him as much as they would like Obama or Bernie Sanders. Maybe without that strong center lightning rod that inspires defense and aggression, now people are looking at everybody else who they want to fight with, everybody on the right, everybody on the right is fighting amongst themselves. Oh my God, the Shapiro Crowder thing was insane when that blew up. The Trump DeSantis stuff is like brewing on the horizon with occasional spillovers. That whole Christian nationalist stuff with Frenta's Alex Ali, yeah, it's okay. And then on the left, thankfully, they're a smaller faction of our party, but the progress was in like fighting with everybody. It was like a huge thing. It was blowing up online

too. So yeah, I thought what it was about what's the second one. The second one is, there's something I've been talking about a lot more. I think our identity is getting more fractured in really negative ways. It's hard to, I try to keep in mind like, I don't know what's unique now versus this is always existed but I'm like a 34 year old guy

and this is my whole life so I'm able to, you know, so maybe I just, maybe I overexaggerate the present recentism or whatever. But it really feels like we can't be proud of any part of our identity right now for a variety of reasons, two big reasons. So on the left, it feels like we identify ourselves by how much we're supposed to hate ourselves.

Like, okay, I'm white and that's horrible because my ancestors had slaves and I'm part of a white supremacist system and colonialism means I'm exploiting the world and capitalism means I'm like, it's like all of it is such a fucking drag. And then for people on the right, especially as they've taken this more populist bend,

people on the right can't be proud of America anymore because now they all hate fucking corporations and they hate like everything related to like, like everything that America does. So like, here's like two examples it'll give. I don't know how controversial it will be with you or your audience, but like, in my opinion, okay. I think that the vaccine is like,

I think that that was the perfect shining example of like American capitalism. You had the government under Trump to warp speed, trying to incentivize private industry that is like globalized. It's working with different companies, all of the world, Pfizer and Biotech, to use publicly funded research in the United States

to create a vaccine for a novel virus in less than 12 months. That's like a shining example of only the United States of America could have done that. But it's such a politically captive topic that nobody can feel good about it. People on the left are like, ah, yeah, yes. And people on the right are like, no, fuck that, even though Trump is like,

please like the vaccine. So we can't feel good about that. I think that Ukraine, regardless of you feel pro or negative Ukraine, the support that we gave them, the way that we out of the intel, the way that we led NATO and Europe or whatever through that, I think has also been an exemplary attitude, a stark contrast to the horrible shit

we've done in Iraq and Afghanistan, like this is good American leadership on a country that deserved to be defended. We did a really good way, but it's such a politically captive idea that nobody can feel good about it. So we have this identity in the United States, we all hate each other. Nobody can feel good about anything the United States does.

The right hates every, we don't have like, neocons anymore, who are the very least like, oh, well, hey, we love our big businesses, because everyone right hates big business now. Everyone who off-takes everything about themselves, and it's like, fuck, like, where's your identity yet? So, everybody just like fights with each other, hates each other, and it's like, well, fuck, you know. People coming together and rallying together over shared hatred is always going to be stronger than people coming together over shared loves. Like, almost, I do a study that I saw in, and it starts in 2012.

If you ask Democrats whether they love Democrats or they like their own party more than they hate the other, in 2012 it flips. And people are basically protest voting everything. I'm voting for not the thing that I don't like as opposed to voting for the thing that I do like. And this with purity spirals, which is what you said at the beginning, which is if you are bound together

over the mutual hatred of an outgroup, you have to continually shave off members on the outside of your own inner group to continue to be more and more pure and keep on pointing them out as pariahs and scapegoats and say, that's the person that we're not, I'm not that, I'm not this and I'm not the other, like white gay privilege.

Like if you're gay, but you're also white, kind of not that gay anymore. Bro, gay people are like the straight people of like the LGBT shit. Like I'll see people like white gay people, you mean the guys that have all appropriated black female language? And I'm like, holy shit, dude, white gay guys are gonna be feeling really weird.

What was it like? Was it like, what, 30 or 40 years ago, they were all dying of AIDS, and now they're like next to the chopping block. And I'm like, holy shit, you know? Yep, Jesus, yeah. Yeah, if you're white in your gay, you're just not that gay anymore.

Like you're an honorary straight, essentially. And especially if you're conservative, if you're conservative white and gay, Douglas Murray, Douglas Murray is like, one of the straightest men in the world. Now, for that precise reason. So yeah, I think it's an interesting point to say that Biden is so milk toast to most people

that he hasn't been able to inspire either support or hatred, which has caused both of those things to just get turned inward. I think that's an interesting. Which is kind of sad because Biden's goal coming into office was to be like a great unifier, which I think to some extent he has accomplished in that he's not relentlessly shitting on the right.

As much as people say, he tries to be pretty careful. He's like, oh, I don't like the mega people that are trying to protest the election, but for the most part, Biden is not relentlessly attacking conservatives in Republicans. Not anywhere as much as it could be, but I think as a result of that, Republicans don't really care much about him.

I don't think they're obsessed over Biden. It's being unobjectionable and uniting in that regard of that, like Republicans don't really care much about him. I don't think they're like obsessed over by like- It's being unobjectionable and like uniting in that regard has actually ended up turning everybody in on themselves, which is fractured everything even more. Yeah, in a way kind of, yeah. Because like how many conservative- it feels like now, I feel like if you were to pull an average conservative now, it feels like their most hated figure would be like either like Trump or to Santas as they're like fighting against each other, that you have like these conservative moments

and then like all the other conservative people, the Laura Lumer's, the Marjorie Taylor Greens, that are like this huge like faction forming, fighting in the conservative party right now, like they're just like Biden's, you know, whatever, Democrat socialists who cares. And then it's like all like the conservative stuff, you know. And trans people.

And they really wanna talk about you all in the side. Oh my God. Did you see the article saying that liberals are more unhappy than conservatives? It was a bunch of different studies that came out. It was in Atlanta, where the whole thing I was streamed two or three days ago. Yeah.

What do you, what do your thoughts off the back of them? Well, the part of what I just told you, I ripped straight from that article. The idea that liberals define themselves by like, like all the things that they hate. So like, if I'm like a white person, I kind of have to feel bad about it because like any wealth I have is like a privilege

that came from the exploitation of people from colonialist mindsets and white people, they're like, yeah, that's that type of mindset is probably really, really, really negative. And I think that I think that the left, it's I have this thing on stream that I say where if I'm talking to an audience, I'm always gonna talk from a pretty far left perspective.

We're gonna talk about systems, we're gonna talk about class, we're gonna talk about like what are the things that the government can do to create say where if I'm talking to an audience, I'm always going to talk from a pretty far left perspective. We're going to talk about systems, we're going to talk about class, we're going to talk about like what are the things that the government can do to create like a good environment for you, right? Because that's what I'm concerned about, like on a broad level. But if I'm giving advice to like an individual, I'm going to be the most hyper like anarcho-libertarian ever. Like if I'm talking to somebody like, oh, can I get some advice?

Like, yeah, here's some advice. You care more about you than anybody else ever will. You're the only one that can approve your situation. Nobody's gonna give you a handout. Nobody gives a fuck about you. You're gonna do whatever you can, like, on your own to get ahead in life. And that's it, right? And I talk about this sometimes that people,

people sometimes try to call me like hypocritical or like when I give advice to an individual. Like, well, what do you mean? Aren't you gonna recognize that it's not fair for this guy, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and it's like, yeah, sure, but to an individual who the fuck cares, right? Like you can sit there and blame systems all you want and be a loser or you can do your

best to overcome it. Like that's all you could do, you know, how do you marry those two world views then? How do you blend those two? Um, it's like, it's very, it's very difficult, but like on a, on a personal level, I understand that I exist as a part of a system and there are some things that are unfair, but like all you can do is try your best, right? But it's very, very, very difficult as a left-leaning person. If you play video games, yeah. If you're played League of Legends, no. Okay. This must be true of like sports. I would imagine, I never played like football or basketball, but I imagine

that in sports, there's probably a difficulty sometimes where it's easy to blame teammates for your losses, right? I played a single player game called Starcraft growing up and I love that game is one-on-one. If you lost, it was your fucking fault full stop. When you play team games it's very difficult to figure out what's your fault or why did you lose? Was it my teammates? Did they fuck up? And you can get into a mindset we start blaming everybody else and what happens is you take no personal accountability and the real mindset for improving in those games and everybody knows this, even if they're

upset at the time you're not gonna say they'll tell you, the real mindset for improving is all you can do is take the most responsibility for your own actions as much as you can and try to improve on that. Sometimes you might be in unwinnable games where your teammates are cause you to lose, but who cares, find out what you can improve on and go forward. And we know that's true for games, We probably know it's true for sports, but then as soon as we come into the real world, it's like, oh, you're black, you didn't get a job. They were probably racist.

Oh, you're a woman, you know, you're application at Genoa? They were probably sexist. How can you expect that that mindset doesn't fucking destroy a person's ability to navigate the world? When they've constantly been told that classes around them are what are keeping them down,

and they matter, yeah, I feel like the amount of personal agency you have grows. It rips the agentic person out of it. There was a really interesting part where it said that one of the reasons or one of the potential justifications for why it would be the case that liberals are more depressed is because they correctly perceive injustices in the world. That was Matthew Eglaceus's take on it or that was what- Because the potentially are. That basically they're more in tune with what's going on that's bad. But I don't know,

that liberal boys are experiencing more depression than conservative girls because of that. Like because the liberal boys are more in tune than a Female who's got all manner of hormones going on and her body images up in the air and she's 14 years old And she's now a sexual object and God knows what I'm supposed to do with myself and everyone's treating me in a different way And I'm becoming a woman and I'm having periods and all this stuff and Being tapped into injustices is more than I mean it I could see it being the case For me a lot of stuff related to women has went when you get turned on to a lot of the really weird shit that goes along with being a woman, especially in like this world. As soon as I noticed that, that's a really sadder,

depressing thing to take into account. And this is fucking yeah. And it's a guy like I like overlaid all of that. And there's so many I have to be careful not even like there'll be people that are woman will ask me like, Oh, like I'm doing a show with this guy like, do you think it's cool? And I just feel like, yeah, this people that, a woman will ask me, oh, like I'm doing a show with this guy, like, do you think he's cool on it? And I just feel like, yeah, this guy's like super cool, it's whatever. And now I know I can never say that about a guy unless I've seen him interact with a woman.

Because how he interacts with me doesn't fucking matter. Because there are guys that interact with me, super cool, very polite. Like, just like, this is an exemplary dude. He's a really awesome guy. And then like, I'll see him in another, and in at least one circumstance, he tries to rape a woman that I was like,

for a reason, I'm like, what the fuck is wrong with you, dude? And it's like an insane fucking world where it's like, yeah, when I get to an answer by that stuff, I could definitely see it being more like, fuck. When I was a carp cleaner, that was the point of my life where I was the most libertarian

where I was like, I need to do what I can. I got a work hard, I got to figure this out. Buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, and holy fuck, it wasn't until I got rich that I realized, wow, there is so much of life that is fucking bullshit. Well, like, in terms of like how much easier life is in every single regard when you become wealthy.

I don't know if it's because I was a commuter a lot, but a lot of them misery in my life surrounded, usually was around my fucking car, okay? I drove a piece of shit car, things like flat tires or speeding tickets, that's like a kick in the ass for like three to six months, depending on how fucked you get, right? If you crack a wheel, anybody from Nebraska

that drives an I-80 going back and forth from Omaha to Council Bluffs knows it when it snows, those potholes are fucking insane, that shit will fuck you over. And then like every single bad thing gets worse because of every other thing right now. So like let's say that I crack a wheel okay well now I got a call a friend to get the fuck out of here. I have to leave my car somewhere the side of the road

I got a right a big sign this is please don't fucking tell me they're gonna tell you anyway now that it gets towed I got a $75 fee at least from the state and now every single day it sits in this tow yard It's like an extra hundred dollars and it's just like so much fucking stress and then as a rich person's like I get pulled over for whatever the fuck I hire traffic lawyer make it go away. I don't give a fuck about anything. Right, I could go total my car and Uber somewhere else, I go to a dealership, I buy an,

I don't get, like the life is so much different for like a wealthy person in so many ways. Or for like my kid, for example, I'm trying to think of like, well, where do I want him to go to school? I was like, I want him to go to a good, I want him to be in the best school district. So I just buy a house in the best school district

and then we move there, right? And then over the pandemic, when people have to stay home, right? Or even before the pandemic, fuck up, my kid isn't like first grade, and these motherfuckers are getting assigned laptops, and they get like take home, like holy shit. And there are other places, North Omaha, South Omaha,

where these kids like barely have like functioning textbooks. And I don't know, from the eyes, like I said, when I was a poor person, like, okay, I'm gonna work hard on libertarian, I could do this blah, blah, blah, but then it's a wealthy person, I'm like, I was like, damn, this is some fuck shit. My life and my kids like are so much easier now,

because I have money versus what it would be otherwise and fuck that kind of sucks here. So to center back, I'm not saying you should be depressed because you see the injustice of the world more or whatever, but I do think that there is something to be said where like when you start to notice more shit, you're like, oh, that is kind of like shitty, that there's kind of suck.

Yeah, for the people that haven't read that article, some of the really interesting stuff that I found, there's a 10 percentage point gap between the share of conservative versus liberals who report being very happy in virtually every iteration of the GSS studies since 1972. Conservatives do not just report high levels of happiness, they also report high levels of meaning in their lives. The positive association between conservative ideology and happiness only rarely reversed. Liberals were happier than conservatives and only five out of 92 countries and never in the United States.

Studies have repeatedly found the conservatives both politicians and laymen's tend to be more conventionally attractive than liberals and have better sex lives. People who are healthier and childhood have shown to be more likely to become conservatives as adults. Meanwhile, people with higher measured cognitive ability also likely to support economic conservatism

and cultural liberalism. What the fuck, like why? What's going on there? I mean, we'd have to talk through each of those things by the stand. Yeah, from the, I mean, we can't have you want to. I feel like, here's what I feel, okay. I have a lot of protective factors

that make me able to deal with adversity very well. And I feel like left-leaning people don't equip you with those tools at all. You have to be able to be confronted with a difficult situation and overcome it. And it feels like from the left, our idea of compassion for children is removing as much adversity from possible. But you need a little bit at least to be able to function in the world, you know. And as you remove the ability for people to deal with any type of adversity, and then you give them excuse after excuse after excuse for why everything is unfair, everything is unjust, everything is horrible, then I was like, well, what are you things going

to happen? Something that's a little bit telling, I don't know what you read of that article, but did you see the thing where it was like a person's view of their race and ethnicity versus other people? No. So in that article, every single race, obviously, has a very favorable view of people in their own race with one exception, and it was white liberals. Have a very negative, the graph is like it's like black people, Asians, Mexicans, and then the negative was for white people. For hating white people. I'm like, come on, really? That's a fucking cringe. You're like, flagellating yourself. Yeah, it is insane. And it's like holy shit. Yeah. Wow. Okay. That's so fucking cringe. You're like, flagellating yourself. Yeah, it is insane. And it's like, holy shit.

Yeah. Wow, okay. That's a really interesting graph. If you interest, like, seeing like the big bar, the big bar, and then, and then the other big bar, like Jesus. There is no other ethnic group or combination of factors where somebody hates themselves

as much as like white liberal students. I wonder, did you have a look? Does it show that longitudinal? Does it show when that kicked in? Because I can't imagine it would have been the same. I don't think it doesn't show it lunch tunely, but that article, frames everything in the perspective from 2011 and onwards.

It calls it the greater wokening. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember seeing that bit. Well, one of the other things that I know you've spoken about a good bit recently is kind of the concerns of too much freedom. So if you just blast open all of the doors, you don't need to adhere to any expected traditions. There are no stereotypes, no archetypes,

nothing is grounded in biological fact and then perpetuated by culture, which causes everybody to have to find themselves out from first principles. It's like you're a man, okay. There are no expectations for what you're supposed to be as a man, which means that your job, sonno, is to deal with the existential pain, the crushing weight of existence, and just

work out what you're supposed to be going forward. I wonder whether unlimited degrees of freedom causes people to just become nihilistic. It's like, existentially fucking crushed. And then they go, oh, I don't really know how to do this. And they give up as opposed to perhaps if you do have some slightly more conflicted, but slightly more constrained expectations for a conservative, maybe that does give you guardrails which actually gives you a little bit more movement in the right direction. Yeah, I think our identity, truly it's fractured among every person that we meet, it's fractured

in society to some extent. Like when we think of what does it mean to be successful at xyz, we tell ourselves a story that it means I want to be the best person that I can be, but that's truly, I think that's a lie. I think what you want to be is you want to be the best person that like everybody thinks you can be, or everybody says you can be. Like what does it mean to be the best version of a man? It's not just what you think it means to be a man.

It's what does everybody think it means to be a man? And then achieving success on that level, where everybody else is looking towards it, I think it's truly where a lot of the good feelings we go. Because we have social beings, right? We socialize. That's how humans succeed. We never lived as like individual hunters. We're very much like pack animals, social creatures. So if every single person in a society has their own view of everything, some people will be okay, probably a very, very small minority, less than like 2%

probably, like that type of role. I like that type of role. That's fun for me. I probably a very, very small minority, less than like 2% probably, or like that type of role. I like that type of role. That's fun for me. I'm a very discreet autistic like, ah, whatever. But for most people, you want to be the best of what everybody agrees is the best to be. It's kind of, it's like,

it's the age old, I remember the 90s in the 2000s, there are lots of jokes like this. Like you're unique just like everyone else, you know? When you want to have like the most unique and cool fashion, you don't really want the most unique and cool fashion. You want the thing that everybody else wants, but just not everybody else can afford to get.

But it has to be something that we all agree is the coolest thing. And then that's what makes you like the most unique, you know? But it's just kind of, it's just weird like delusion we have, where we're like, oh yeah, like I really do want to be like a truly unique and outstanding individual. It's like not really, that's terrifying. You just want to fit very neatly within the fold of what's socially acceptable,

but you wanna do it like in the very narrow parts and everybody can afford, you know? Is modern liberalism incompatible with happiness on average? Do you think in the way that a lot of people in the sort of super progressive position hold it? When you're, okay, in order to truly learn about like electronics, when you take things apart, like remotes and shit,

you don't learn anything until you actually fucking put it back together, okay? And I think one of the problems we have, especially on the left, is we deconstruct so many different ideas, but we don't ask ourselves, why the fuck were they there the way that they were? You know, I think that- Suggested in electronics.

What? Chesterton's electronics, like Chesterton's fence. Oh, I have no idea what that is, but I'll say it all. You've not heard of Chesterton's fence. No, what is that? There is no way that you've gone through your life and not heard of this. So Chesterton's fence is there is a fence in a field

somebody walks up to it, a conservative or and a liberal both walk up to it. And it's kind of just a panel of fence in the middle of a field and they think, well, there's no point for this to be here. The conservative presumes, someone has put this here, even though I can't work out why it's here, we'd better leave it. The liberal says, there's evidently no use

for it, let's tear it down. It's basically don't throw the baby out with the bathwater or don't throw a bathwater out until you've worked out why there might be a baby in there. Okay, sure, that's exactly what I'm talking about basically, yeah. Yeah, but so I think we had an issue with that. So when you ask like, is liberalism,

US is liberalism incompatible with like the current iteration, the most modern 2023 version of what most people like caricature as liberalism, is it incompatible with happiness on average? I think it can be, but I think we're pushing a little bit too far. We're not asking ourselves like, you know, are we throwing out the baby with the bath water basically? There's a lot of cool things that can happen with deconstruct in gender roles, and I think there's a lot of value to throwing out the baby with the bath water, basically. There's a lot of cool things that can happen with deconstructing gender roles.

And I think there's a lot of value to throwing out some things. Like I think that, friends, as women can be more successful than we ever thought possible. That seems to be a thing that we're even more surprised about every single day, especially when it comes to school. But does that mean that we need to have no gender roles, whatsoever?

Do we need to abolish every single thing related to like male or female archetypes? Because there's a lot of people that draw a lot of value from those. Probably not. We probably don't have to do that. But people are so keen to get rid of everything that it's hard to ground any of our conversations anymore in any type of real thing. Yes.

Well, if you demonize motherhoods, that means that there are innate biological urges for women to become mothers. But this self-hatred thing that you mentioned about white liberals must also happen for women who maybe feel like they're supposed to have a career, but it's like, I kind of like the idea of being a mom. I think 86% of women say that being a stay-at-home mom is an option that they aspire to have, like just the potential that they could have. But the self-hatred would be rampant if you were to actually be truthful about that,

which causes internal conflict and strife. Yeah, I would imagine so. That 86% number of times was really high. But yeah, I imagine option that they would aspire to have like potential. I mean, the bar is set very low. Sure. Yeah, I think I agree.

So it's so fucking hard for people to, it's really hard for people to live with and accept that other people around them can be different. Like it feels like people are very keen to just hammer home, like every fucking idiot. Like friends are like on the left for progress as we talk a lot about diversity of thought and everything or diversity or whatever. And there's not very much diversity

and a lot of friend groups on the left or the right, like people say, oh, I've got a conservative friend. I was like, no, you don't. You've got a friend who's like a conservative, but they hate Trump, they're not a big fan of guns. They just like don't want a $25 an hour minimum wage, right? Show me a conservative friend you have that like drinks moonshine and was a mega hat, okay?

Show me like a real, because there's not like, we're very much like separated from each other. Is that ever the case though? Was that the case in the 90s? Where we had friends that were very different from each other. I feel like the internet has changed things a lot because now you can hyperselect groups of friends and individuals you never could before. Like you couldn't really find, you had really extremist ideas, to some extent you were forced

to confront the people around you and kind of, you know, you couldn't tumble down into your own echo chamber on Reddit or Telegram or Discord because it was you would geographically constrained Yeah, if you wanted to like be a vacuum fucker in like 1990 people are gonna kind of look at you kind of weird And you're gonna be on your own there some of the fuck's vacuums. That's not euphemism. No. Oh Whereas today if you wanted to fuck vacuums you could probably find an online support group for it Like that will give you like the best vacuums to have sex with. And you can do that your whole life, you know? But I'm just saying that like, you probably to some extent in like the 80s, 90s before the internet,

like you kind of have to like, be, talk to your neighbors and be somewhat going around you. Yeah, whereas today you have, fuck, there's fucking 21, 22 year old kid who's leaking classified documents to look cool to a bunch of people on Discord. Bro, what the fuck are you doing? Yeah, it's like Jesus.

Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. It's the freedom thing again. So the conversation I had in Qatar about masculinity came down to the fundamental tension of the guy I was speaking to said we need to kind of blow up in the doors of what it means to be a man because they're constraining and some people who don't fit into those existing paradigms are made to feel like they're not a man or they're discontent.

It's discontinuity between them. My realization was, well, yeah, totally, there are certainly ways that you could optimize for every single part of the normal distribution, right? Right out to zero and a hundred. But if you do do that, then it's the same as it being nothing. If masculinity is everything, it's also nothing. And the same thing goes for like pick whatever stereotype or archetype you want to have.

If you blast the doors open completely, you're saying you need to work this out for yourself. There are no expectations, there are no guardrails. Nobody is coming to help you. And if you do use any of those traditions that have come from the past, you're gonna get attacked for it. Yes, precisely.

That's you being fucking like, there's like by the patriarchy or fucking feminism or whatever. Yeah, there's like two ways you can go. At like one is that you have like the hyper rigid defined like, this is what it means to be man and nothing outside can work. And then you've got like this like blow open everything

and it's like, we can't say there's anything about being a man. And it's like there is like third option that we were kind of gunning for in like the late 90s early 2000 felt like what was like listen we can actually blow open really wide what it means to be a man or woman if you want to be a guy and paint your nails and we're fuck a makeup then go for it. And you know what a lot of guys aren't going to be like you but that's okay you just kind of like can do your own thing. But now it's not enough to say this can be like really different and that's okay. Now there has to be kind of like this tear down of like the the the norm

in the middle as well. Like it can't just be that like you can be unique and kind of do your own thing and whatever. Now like everybody has to be nothing in order to make it okay. Instead of teaching people that like sometimes you're just like it's okay to be a little bit weird. You can be weird. But now like weird is like a slur and as we know actually I'm not weird. You're just like heterosystemormative and this is like a horrible thing for designers like okay, fuck you. Yeah so optimizing for the extremes and sort of bringing those in and making them part of the norm. One of the other things again that I've been thinking about is how this relates to people's lack of capacity or desire or

motivation to deal with difficulty or suffering or any kind of like anything that requires you to push through hard stuff to find meaning on the other side of it And I guess it's kind of the same like Why why bother like if the systems rigged against me if there is no meaning in anything if having a family All of the previous anchors that we would have found meaning from in life if all of those have been blown open then like fuck it Like if I do come up against any kind of difficulty, that should have been snow plowed out of my way before I got here. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, there's a different, there's a, there are two concepts called stress and you stress where, I'm teaching you. Yeah, oh my God, I'm so glad a friend told me this like two years ago, because I've never heard of this before. And it was really, one thing that's really difficult for me

is I love stress. It is very empowering to me. When I'm in stressful situations, I feel like I'm alive, okay? When people have gone in for my career, writing big things, accusing me of shit, it's very fun for me to navigate those things. It's like empowering to me. When I'm in stressful situations, I feel like I'm alive. When people have gone in for my career, writing big things, accusing me of shit, it's very fun for me to navigate those things. It's like, oh fuck.

And I learned this term a couple of years ago, friend, she read a book called, fuck, it was like the power of stress or something. I don't remember something like that. But she said that, well, she said, the reason why you probably feel this way is because there's two types of stress. There's stress, which is bad for you.

Physiological, it's a horrible thing. It causes a lot of ting in the mouth. And then it doesn't include you stress, which is bad for you. Physiological, it's a horrible thing. It causes a lot of ting and then it doesn't include you stress, which is similar to what you're stressed. But the difference is for you stress, you stress is when you're going through stressful things, but you feel like you've got tools to deal with it. And stress is when you feel helpless. And despite how weird my upbringing is in my life

or whatever, I've never felt helpless. I've always felt like if something is fucked, I'm the only person who's gonna do anything about it. I have to do something, we'll figure it out. I'm out of the work, fucking 16 hours a day, seven days a week, but we'll do something. So for me, stressful situations are like, okay, it's challenging, but I gotta work my throat.

But when kids don't have the ability to learn how to manage or do with stressful environments, then stress becomes this horrific, all-encompassing, blanket of darkness that falls on you and you're like, fog, I can't do anything, I'm paralyzed, I don't know what to do, I've learned so much. And they have no idea how to deal with any of the adversity.

So yeah, I agree that people today, if the adversity is not plowed out of their way, they basically turn to these helpless frumps of nothing that I can't deal with anything. Why is that, let's call it fragility to stress. Why is that so prevalent in some corners of the left, do you think? Because it seems to me that the right almost identifies itself as being the, even if it's not true, even if this isn't how they show up, it's how they state,

which is we, like I'm built for hard things. Everyone's Tim Kennedy with a fucking knife behind his back. That doesn't seem to be the same on the left at the moment. And that to me seems like a self-defeating ideology because you're making yourself inherently more fragile and less capable of dealing with anything that you can up against, including the ideology on the opposite side of the aisle that you say that you fucking hate. Yeah, I think that people on the left have to adopt my ideology. I think that you have to teach people about the unfairness of systems and all of that. I think that's good to know.

It's gonna be aware of it. But you also have to treat people's individuals at the end of the day and tell them, like, hey, listen, like, despite how unfair the world is or whatever, you can't say they're cry about it, you have to do something about it. So, you know,

like, class analysis should be like a medical diagnosis. When you go to the hospital and you get a diagnosis for some sort of like medical ailment or medical disease or whatever, though you from the left, are you from the right? Sure. The reason why you get the diagnosis, the only reason why we have diagnosis for things

is because there's a treatment plan, right? So if you talk to so many, so like, hey, listen, you're a part of this class and you might be affected in this way, this is what you have to do about it, right? It has to come paired with that piece of advice. It can't just be, you're a part of this class here, fuck, affected in this way, this is what you have to do about it, right? It has to compare it with that piece of advice. It can't just be, you're part of this class, you're fucked, you're part of this,

so like you'll never get it, right? It's gotta be like, okay, well, you have to, you've got this, so keep this in mind, do this, you know? I noticed it when it comes to mental ailments, people will do that a lot, like on Twitter, people are like, oh, I've got OCD, I've got A, they'll say these things, like, okay, well, what are you doing about it?

And it's like, what do you mean, what am I doing about it? It's like, well, what the fuck is the point of knowing you have this thing, you're not fucking doing anything about it, right? Or when people they say, okay, well, what are you doing about it? And I was like, what do you mean, what am I doing about it? It's like, well, what the fuck is the point of knowing you have this thing, you're not fucking doing anything about it, right? Or when people will say things like, oh, I can't do that because of my ADHD. And I was like, what do you mean you can't do that because you're an ADHD?

If you have ADHD, do something about it. What the fuck? Why would you just use that as an excuse to do nothing? What is your vision, or if you were able to try and give some advice to liberals in general, you're coming from the left. As far as I'm concerned, you're the most reasonable person that I listen to liberals in general. You're coming from the left. As far as I'm concerned, you're the most reasonable person that I listen to,

the period. No, I'm just gonna go, look. Close. Dude, I really appreciate the stuff that you put out. I think both me and a bunch of people from Austin who would not really listen to anybody that was coming from that side of a talking point are like, fucking, destiny keeps on getting these things right

as far as I can see. And even if it's not the background that I come from, like fuck yeah, like that's reasonable, it's well balanced, it's understanding, it's agent, it's aspirational, which I think is really, really fucking important. Like if the vision that you put forward for somebody is to be this like cooked victim that is completely at the mercy of the world around you, who, like, how are you selling this to almost anybody that wants to have a grand vision for their life? What is the, first off, what's your prediction

for the way that the left means for it? Not what do you want to happen, but given where we're at, the progressive eating itself, et cetera, et cetera, is that going to correct, self-correct, and move more back toward this vision that you've got and something from the late 90s early 2000s or is this continuing to run away with itself into an extreme? I think it's kind of sad, but I think the left, I think the progressives are starting to fall apart.

I don't think whatever comes next will call themselves progressive. Like I still do, but I have to qualify a lot because I don't want people to instantly assume a bunch of things about me. If you've been watching it online, have you seen the young Turks? Correct. Yeah, tell me to explain to people briefly what's happened with the young Turks. Well, if you've watched Byte's Train,

they're basically going through what I went through three years ago, where it was really funny because Anna was saying on the Uncursures, I'm tired of working with these leptas, they come on this show, they build up a big audience, and then they leave the show, and they act like they never heard you before when they start trashing you.

And without any names, I've had people to the exact same thing to me. And it's funny because if I leave somebody's show, and then somebody asks me something in the future, I think I've had people ask me about you, because I think that you're a bit more into some of the Manosphere Red Pill stuff than I think I am. I'm a genu. I think so, yeah. In terms of some of the Manosphere Red Pill stuff than I think I am. I'm a gentleman.

I think so. Yeah. In terms of some of your takes, and I want to say people can find it if I'm wrong, but like if people ask me about you, if I see a clip of you, I'm going to say, I talk to him in a pod, guys, he seems like a pretty reasonable guy. We might have some disagreements here. That I think that would be about my take. But I feel like other people will come away, like imagine you are me and then I'm like a

random leftist. Somebody would show me one clip of you and they'd be like oh he probably fucking hates women he's probably a fucking rapist that guy is just a fucking piece of shit and it's like you talked to this guy you were on this guy show or sometimes you had extended relationships with people but as soon as you do one thing wrong it's like the backlash is fucking insane and it happens so much with progress is where for Anna it was over two big things one is she had something to say about homeless people because there was some homeless guy in Seattle or San Francisco that attacked a woman on the street.

This happened a few years, I think a year or two ago. Oh yeah, it was a huge thing and she was like, this is crazy, this guy should be in jail. And all the progressives like, you can't just put homeless people in jail. There are unhoused neighbors and blah, blah, blah. I was like, oh my god, there was that big thing. That was a year or two ago with Anna. And then recently it was over the, don't call me a, I'm a birthing person or whatever.

Yeah, whatever. And I was like, oh, you're fucking trans woman. And you hate trans people. It's like, pro, the young Turks are like, a validly progressive. Like these guys aren't even like Democrats. These guys are like progressive. And you guys are spiral.

Yeah, holy shit. Peerity spiral kicking in yet again. So like, I don't think that's gonna let. If you're getting like the young Turks breaking off your movement, like I don't think that's gonna last for very much longer. And again, like you said, like these people have like no fucking tenacity

to deal with anything. So they all eat themselves alive. They all have very low ability to cope or deal with adversity. They're, it's just like a horrible, yeah. Someone called you alt left. I didn't even know that was a thing. It's just like a horrible, yeah. Someone called you alt left. I didn't even know that was a thing. It's, oh no, when you say someone, are you talking about the squirrel?

No, someone replied to me on Twitter. Oh, they basically said, interesting conversation you had about such and such recently, would love to see someone from the left's take. And I replied and said, interesting, I've got destiny coming on in a week's time. Like basically, you're not a real leftist or alt left was like a way to discard the fact

that I was bringing you on. That wasn't left enough. I didn't even know that alt left was a thing. There's a weird squirrel Twitter account that calls me alt left, but she says that because I'm like not conservative, but I'm like racist and transphobic and bigoted and an Nazi and blah, blah, blah. So I don't know if that was a reference to that or not. I would be a purity spiral kicks in again.

So okay, so that's, you've said that you think that this progressive thing is not going to be able to sustain itself. I think people are getting a little tired of like the crazy cancellation shit. And the left are obviously all eating themselves alive and they haven't gotten any political power. It's inherently self-defeating, right? If everybody is constantly looking for whoever is next going to be shaved off the outside of the purity spiral. It's so self-contradictory that after a little while everybody has to abandon it because everyone has been, everyone has had the finger pointed at them or themselves.

Yeah, but I mean, I feel like everybody does this. I feel like every time a group gets massively in power, they can't help but eat themselves alive. I feel like I remember this in, fuck, was it, was McCain pale in 2008? Oh, maybe you weren't here. One country. Yeah, where Republicans get like in power and then they start like eating themselves alive because they're starting to cut off because like this guy is like a more man and this guy is like kind of weird or what.

So I mean, like, it just, it feels like any time a group gets in power, they start that weird fucking like purity test and it's like, you can't be part of this group and you don't do this. But we're seeing that on the right as well. It's some degree, right? A little bit, although I think for different reasons, kind of, Trump is fucking insane. And I think that that, I think there's like a unique set

of things that are causing the problem. The big difference is the number of tenants. In the United States and the left, as much as progressives might be powerful on Twitter or in schools or whatever, they represent a very small portion of the Democratic Party. They don't really have very much political power. There's like four people in the house and like that's it.

But on the right, Trump is their like extremist guy. And that's like fucking half the Republican Party will follow Trump off a cliff right now. So they have like a very unique situation where they're trying to deal with that the moment I think. Why didn't the Trump indictment get more media coverage? I thought it would have been, I mean it was not covered, but I figured it should have been something absolutely fucking massive, and it didn't seem that way to me. It was massive for a day, but our news set goes very quick now.

It's like, we get over shit in like one or two days. Also, the diamonds are kind of like boring. It wasn't like anything like super spicy. Even though people had been saying they were going to be pretty boring, they came out and they're kind of like, so, but then it's also like Trump is just very fatiguing. There's so many like insane things involving him all the time And at some point it's like hard to care anymore. It's like oh, yeah Like even the whole indictment that things surround really

Like if we were to go back like five years or six or seven years Like the most surprising thing would be like could you imagine having a president of the United States that was fucking porn stars behind us like recently had a fucking child's wife's back? That's like an insane thing. Could you imagine a Obama had done that? Or is now setting incredibly hot. Yes. Yeah. Or incredibly loaded on how you view it. Yeah. So I was like, so now it's like, oh, Trump did it then. I'm like, okay, whatever, you know. What about the the fact if this progressive thing isn't viable because the progressive that telling people how to live their lives are the ones that are killing themselves and on anti-depressant, was it like some insane percentage of,

Jesus, for some of us, like 50% of I think liberal women at a certain age have been like on some type of like anti-depressant like Jesus. Yes, if that's the you should live your life this way, well come on, like proofs in the pudding, this doesn't really seem to be growing particularly much corn. Have you seen the, you should live your life this way. Well, come on, like proofs in the pudding. This doesn't really seem to be growing particularly much corn. Have you seen the Twitter video? Or somebody's like, it's time to rise up my communist brothers, we need guns and shit.

And then it starts playing some like fucking 90s pop punk emo song. And it's just like tweet after tweet of like, like, oh, fuck, I have to show this to you later. It's really fucking funny. Sorry. Okay, okay. I'm going to show you this. People in the audience don't know what I'm talking about. Okay you later. It's really fucking funny. Sorry. Okay. Okay. I'm going to show you this.

People in the audience what I'm talking about. Okay. Okay. So if the progressive thing isn't viable, does that mean that the tread things viable? Uh, no. Absolutely not. Absolutely not.

And this is what frustrates me so much is that progressive are obviously fucking lost. But then like conservative or some of the tread people, okay, we're going to go back to being tread. No, you're not. We're never getting rid of abortion. We're never getting rid of birth control. Women are working in ways that they never have before

and they have so much control over reproduction that the world has fundamentally changed. And whatever we go forward with in the world, it has to take into account those two realities. So anybody that's walking out here expecting that men can get women with paychecks or by being alpha You're everything you're saying is doesn't matter anymore. You're talking about a world that doesn't exist anymore And anybody that's talking about like very traditional roles in terms of like who's earning more money in a house or whatever

You're probably not relevant anymore So we have to carve out some world in the future where we have some idea of a masculine or male archetype That's compatible with the fact that your wife might be earning or even out earning you, right? That has to be a thing because once Pandora's box is open in terms of like the reproduction shit and the working shit, it's just not gonna go away. Women are going back to what they were before. It's not gonna happen.

And it sucks because like it would be interesting to see a lot of like trad talks in that direction. There's only, you know what? There's only one person I've ever heard. Give a good take on trad relationships, and it was fucking Ben Shapiro. Did you see Ben Shapiro's conversation with Lex Friedman?

Bits of it. I come from a very conservative background. I grew up Catholic. And when I listen to traditional people talk about male-female relationships, the fact that the woman was staying in the house, it was always something that was spoken about with the utmost amount of respect that the woman was staying in the house, it was always something that was spoken about with the utmost amount of respect.

A woman might stay in the house, but the way that the father is the leader, like it's kind of true, but it was always with consultation and consent. And cooperation for this. Yes, always. And the way that people talk about it today is with such fucking derision and hatred for women

and are like, oh yeah, like she stays in the house, the man is deleted, the man is in charge. And it's like even the sitcoms before, even when the fathers were highly competent, show that the woman was very much an important figure. Bill Cosby was like, was he a doctor or a dentist? And like his wife, like even he was scared of his wife, in the French principal there,

the uncle Phil was a fucking high-powered attorney lawyer, and his wife was very scary, right? That was always the case. The way we rolled that forward into the period where men became the clowns, the homo-simpsons of the world, the pedigriffens of the world. It's even more, it's the one that is the competent one,

she's the one that's balanced, she runs the home, she runs the man. Yeah, even in a traditional sense. So like, when the trad people talk about, there's one of my big complaints about like red pillars, is there's always so much adversity between men and women rather than like cooperation. So any trad thing going forward,

I don't think there's anything wrong with trad stuff. Some of it is fun. Like some masculine and feminine roles can be fun in the bedroom, out of the bedroom, whatever. But it just has to be done with respect to where the kind of like the labor market is, and the education and everything, and the reproductive rights are today,

because that's not going to change. So it has to incorporate that going forward. How do you square the circle of women's, I'm going to call it over success, but women's increased success in both education, employment and status with the fact that on average women want to date a man who's as educated or more as employed or more as status for a lot more. Women want to, but that has changed pretty dramatically. I wish I had the certain hand, but I want to say it was like 20 years ago, it was like, it was like 45% of women would never consider dating a guy that was earning more than,

that was earning less than them. And I think that number has fallen out at like 29%, and it'll probably continue to change over time. But yeah, that's going gonna be something changing going forward. The, this might just be my capitalist mindset. But like I always, when people email me and they always say like destiny, I wanna start like this business, I wanna start this website, I wanna blah,

like what's your piece of advice to me? The one thing that I always ask somebody is, if you wanna start a small business, first question in my opinion, you should be able to answer is why would somebody use your thing over anything else? If you don't have a snappy response to that, then quit, go do something else.

You need to know a meaty like, they wanna use my thing or watch me because I can offer this unique thing. And I think you should approach everything in life like that. So if you're a man and you're approaching a woman and you're trying to say, okay, I wanna be a real shipplement,

well, what do you have to offer? What's the value add? It can't just be a paycheck because women are working. It can't just be dick because she's got birth control and Tinder, it has to be something more than that. And people aren't equipping men, I think, to have a good answer to that question. You know, you can talk about like the alpha hypermasculine stuff, but like, to be that masculine, you're talking about like one percent of guys, you know, you're talking about like, even six figure depending on where you're at, might not necessarily be the shit, you know,

you're talking about a very very small percentage So I feel like a lot of people aren't equipping men like to be able to like have that value add for women What else some of the value on to them if it's outside of providing resources employment etc There's gonna be a I'm gonna trigger the fuck out of a lot of people saying this Here's how I view like the world is gone. Okay Women um, women were feminine, men were masculine, and women over the past 20, 30, 40 years

have done a really good job at kind of like capturing and incorporating a whole bunch of masculine traits. Okay, women are working, they have a lot of independence, they're kind of managing their shit, they've done a really good job at incorporating that. We'll also still be feminine. Some people say that make you less feminine, but they still have the feminine traits too.

They can take our houses, they can clean all the shut. Maybe some of them can't cook, whatever. For men, I feel like because of the way that we raise, the way that we're socializing or whatever, we still have our masculine things. Men can work jobs and do that. And they do sometimes even to their detriment. For example, over the coronavirus pandemic, men were staying home more than women to

continue working to provide their for their families, right? So the education gap grew even more during the pandemic. Seven times more men dropped out of college during COVID than women. Yeah, to maintain households and everything, right? So men are still working, they're doing that. But the problem is men haven't incorporated any of the feminine traits into their psyche. So women are now like these like alpha omega masculine feminine creatures that are now going through the world

and men are like, okay, well, I'm very masculine and it's like, okay, well, can you be communicative? Do you have emotional intelligence? Can you do any of these things? Things that traditional guys don't give a fuck about because I don't need to be emotionally intelligent. I have a paycheck. Yeah, you need my money to survive, bitch.

What are you gonna do? Right? And now she's like, well, I have enough money. Fuck you. And I was like, okay. So one of the things that I could see as a complication or a wrinkle there is that the sex drive and desire for women from men is so great that even a woman who has ingrained her masculine is still going to be attractive to the guy.

For sure. I'm not convinced that a guy who has embodied his feminine becomes more attractive to a woman especially when you have this disparity with regards to earning an education. i think it's possible i just think we have like really weird and toxic ideas of like what feminine means especially from like red pill or man of spaces i run into this all the time that for instance it's. I run into this all the time that for instance it's oh man. Okay. Here's a really really insane example to me that I hear Okay, I don't know if you said this but a lot of red pillers say this thing where it's like if you're ever you should never ever Be emotionally vulnerable to a woman because she might ever ever ever said that. I'm not just to get it out there So that you understand my positioning within the world of men's advice. I'm not a part of the monosphere I never have been I'm not red pill. I never have got you got you okay. I am so of men's advice. I'm not a part of the manus fear. I never have been. I'm not red pill.

I never have. I am so blue pilled that I'm cooked in the eyes of the manus fear. I'm so bigoted that I'm a misogynist in the eyes of guardian readers. So I split the difference straight down the middle. Okay. And when it comes to the emotional vulnerability thing, that is a story that is told by men who have only ever been in relationships with women who haven't got good emotional control. There are women out there who will and I've been in relationships with some of them that

solve vulnerability as a strength. Sure. That's where I'm opening up as a... Or even, yeah, or even so, people will say that like if you're ever emotionally vulnerable, she might leave you, right? But if you're like, and if you're an emotionally intellectual man, you know emotional intelligence, emotional vulnerability is one of the biggest tools a manipulator can use, totally fucking mind-fuck somebody, because showing limited master vulnerability can get a woman ex-incredibly obsessed with you. And any guy that like is like a manipular person knows that. Well think about the, what the push and pull is, right? The high powered boss bitch female lawyer that wants to be tied up and dommed by her husband on a nighttime. Why is that hot? Why is that interesting because of the polarity? Sometimes, yeah.

The same thing goes for the guy that can be vulnerable on one side, but is also super competent, going out there and doing his thing is able to show strength, but show something else too. Yes. Yes, absolutely. The polarity is really important. And I know this in my life, because I'm online. I'm like hyper-aggressive, ultra-debit bro.

You know, very, I'll say masculine. Yeah, like I'm very, very, very aggressive. But then, do you say you want to be pegged in the bedroom? No, nice try. But like on a personal level, if somebody sees me and I'm like a bit more emotional, well, no, bro, maybe open to somebody, it feels like very special, feels very earned.

Like, oh, cool. And every woman I've talked to, I have never in my life had a woman tell me like, God, I wish you would just be more aggressive to me personally. It's always like, I wish you would open up more, I wish you'd be like more blah, blah, and every woman I've talked to, I have never in my life had a woman tell me, like, God, I wish you would just be more aggressive to me personally. It's always like, I wish you would open up more, I wish you'd be like more blah, blah, blah. I try, I wish you to do this on this, but yeah, but that, just, that's an idea of like, what it means to be more feminine, but every time you say that, it's like a red pillar, whatever, they're like, oh, you want to just like cry and sob and blah, blah, blah, I'm like, no, that's called

being a fucking child. Okay, not being a bunch of adults, yeah. Think about that, it's better to be a warrior in a garden than a gardener in a war quote that everybody loves to throw around. Okay, turn that on its head and say it's exactly the same thing, but in this instance, being a warrior is being able to integrate your emotions. Yeah. Okay, is it not better to have an understanding of your emotions being connection with them and then choose to deploy them when you think that it's appropriate and be able to open up as opposed to being like, no, this is just a black box that me and no one else is ever going to look at.

And I'm going to die at age 70 because of fucking like emotional spiritual death. Yeah. Yeah, it's just, it's really dumb like that. Having that emotional tells us it's so, so, so important. It's the number one thing I need to work on in my life that I'm like actively like working a lot with my wife even is like trying to be like a little bit more emotionally communicative because I've grown up like as a very stoic person. But I think, I think that that every woman wants that type of communication with a guy on a healthier level. But a lot of men don't learn it, because we don't really communicate with ourselves like that. There are also women out there, I think, that would see.

I've been around them, ones that will say, if I see my partner make a joke that doesn't land, I cringe inside my ovary shrivel up inside that hyper-hyper-accune to a man's state. There might be. There are also some women that only did guys with super-huge forearms. There's always going to be the acceptance of course. Yeah, well, there you go. But I mean, in general, being a bit more emotionally intelligent and communicative is

pretty important as a guy, I think. You have to, especially to understand women, you need to be more in tune with yourself to see it like in other people too. Well, remember as well, the biggest predictors when it comes to longevity in relationship are emotional stability, conscientiousness, growth mindset. Those are the one, they have the best predictive power. Mm-hmm.

The stuff like traditional attractiveness, education level, education level is controlled for a little bit. But earnings have none of this, but that's not what you're optimizing for. And this is where I think that in trying to integrate, some of the insights I talk about a ton on the show, but saying, okay, what's your outcome goal here? Is your outcome goal to be able to fuck as many girls

as possible or to sleep with one guy and never catch feels? Or is it to try and have a flourishing relationship that's going to make you feel fulfilled and not mean that you die alone at like fucking 75 with a ton of dogs? Yeah, like, what are we optimizing for? Yeah, yeah, and like I talk about, like in my opinion, there's like, people treated us like there's two boxes.

You've got femininity and masculinity. And then like you should try like maximize women, femininity and masculinity. And I always do it like there's like three boxes. You got like femininity, masculinity and then like you should try like maximize women femininity men masculinity And I always do it like there's like three bucks. You got like femininity maturity and masculinity We all need to work on maturity and then like femininity and masculine is like really fun things on the side You know if you've got a guy who is incredibly intelligent He's a hard worker. He's really driven. He's in tune with everything and he's like he's you know, it tries to best like That's awesome if he's also like 64. That's a huge that's a bonus

It's like a fun thing on the side if you've got a girl It who's got like, you know, she's got all of her stuff figured out and she's got like big boobs, like that's cool. Like the masculine and feminine things are like really fun things on the side and they can like be really fun things to play with. But that's not like the main driving contributing successes in these relationships I think, you know. Think about what current dating optimizes for though. It optimizes for those easily displayable objective metrics of success.

It's the Rolex on your Tinder profile. It's the number of followers that you've got. It's the blue tickets, the car, the size of the boobs. It's a let-feller, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah. And for a fucking man today, it's fucking TRT. It is. I can't.

Well, I think guys are heading towards a world where we're finally going to start to see how negative social media can affect you in the way that has been affecting women for so long. Okay. Why? Because all these motherfuckers now, okay? All these guys, I don't give a fuck, 99% of fitness influencers are on fucking gear. TRT counts as gear now, okay? Every motherfucker does.

I haven't seen so many videos, so many things, we're guys like, oh, these are like my six month results for like lifting or whatever. Then these guys are like, the lean is fuck, they're getting huge. And it's like, oh, like I'm 27 lifting for the first time in five months, this is my, like bro, really? So why is that what's that got to do with the female impact of social?

Oh, because I think for women, I think women see like a whole bunch of like, this is what women should look like. You should be this and that. And like everybody's using like filters and lip filler and on the surgery is the, for a guy it is like, yeah, it's gonna be like, oh well, if you're a guy and you've been lifting for six months, you should look like this.

And it's like, no, shut. Yeah, interesting. And I've seen more and more of those pop up everywhere now, where it's almost like, and because, charity, I so accessible these days. Have you ever held you a level stone? Have you ever held you a level stone? Yeah, they're very low.

What do you think? The last time I checked is 308. Wow, that is low. Yeah, yeah, that's like nearly subclinical I think. It's like I've heard the range number from 300 to 1000 or you've got eight, you're playing with eight. Yeah, or 350 to 1000, so I'm already below it. But I don't have any of the symptoms of low T.

So like, yeah, I'm drunk doing it. I'm in the jam, I'm doing my best, but yeah. Well played. We were talking before we got started about some of the challenges of how people observe success, especially in the modern world. You have a lot of young people that watch the stuff that you do, you probably communicate with a bunch of them,

either like through stream or privately as well. What do young people believe will make them happy in the modern world, but actually won't? What are some of the myths that they're told about, sort of finding meaning and fulfillment in life? I feel like this is a really hard one for me because I think my mind works in a pretty unique way and that I am a very individual, not powered and fulfillment in life. I feel like this is a really hard one for me because I think my mind works in a pretty unique way

and that I am a very individual, not powered by other people's approval. Kind of mindset, it's helped me a lot in the streaming world because I've been able to deal with a lot of people hating me at one point in time. So I'll say this cautiously, but I feel like chasing other people's approval is a bad way to live because it's very much like lived by the sword, died by the sword type of thing to where if other people's approval is a bad way to live because it's very much

like lived by the sword, died by the sword type of thing. To where if other people's approval makes you feel really good about yourself, other people's disapproval is going to make you hate yourself. You're outsourcing yourself with self-worth to the front. Yeah, I've always been big and like self-esteem and self-confidence are called that because they come from yourself. Like, if you're a self-confident person, but only because you've got a huge support network and everybody around you is telling you a good job,

it's not true. Right, Joe. Yeah, self-confident is like, I wanna do a thing and everybody's coming fucking retarded, but I'm gonna do it anyway, because I think it's the right thing to do. Like, that's self-confident, that's what you really want. You know, to some extent, you don't wanna be like a narcissist,

but yeah, so I think that trying to find things that give you like a genuine source of joy, that like give you like a deep sense of meaning that feel really good for me. It was music. It was music. It's really fun to do musical things. I don't care about the people like it or don't.

That's a really cool hobby for me. You don't have to suck. No, I, yeah, yeah, I don't give a fuck. I don't like impress anybody. Those types of things are really important. If you spend your whole life living by other people's opinions of you, you'll die by other people's opinions of you. Does a desire sometimes that I notice in myself, especially if I'm in a

like a zero-some back-by-tee mentality where I'm trying to get one over on somebody else, that I'll find myself almost trying to win at a game that I know that they care about, but I don't. So let's say that I get a ton of pushback on the podcast or on something that I've done to do with the fact that I'm way too blue-pelled. And I'll think, okay, well, I'm bigger than you. Like, I'm in better condition. I'm leaner than you. I'm stronger than you. I'll better go to the gym. And this will motivate me more to go to the gym. It's like, hang in a second. Like, you're playing a game that you know that those people value. But it's not your game. Like, where does this come from? So you can almost find a way where people Where does this come from? So you can almost find a way where people take the desires of those around them, import them in,

and then say, oh, I'm going to do all of these different things which involve winning at everybody else's game without ever working out what the game is that I care about, without working out what would genuinely fulfill me. And then when you look back and you think, oh, what is the list of accomplishments or pursuits that I've gone through and you just see shadows of everyone else, you know what I mean? of accomplishments or pursuits that I've gone through? And you just see shadows of everyone else.

You know what I mean? I'm really hard to think because I just watched in the past day or two something about like how when other people like invoke hatred and you, you're basically letting them control you in your life, yeah. Yes. Like a guiding principle that I've used for my life is there are things that I want to do. And I have to be a certain person to do those things. So for me, success is like improving myself

and kind of gradually sculpting and building myself to be that person. And the only person I can compare myself to is myself because everybody's got a unique starting point. But I'm doing it in Peterson. Yeah, maybe, it might. Jordan Peterson, a lot of good things to say before like 2018, I think before his brain broke.

Real honestly, truly, really did a lot of good things to say. But yeah, like it's truly like the most important person to compare yourself to is yourself. It's, he has the same starting position as you, he has all the same things going for him and against him. And as long as you're doing better, then you were yesterday, like you're making improvements. And that's like the best way to live, I think. One of the problems you would have there, especially from current progressive ideology, would be that doesn't take into account.

All of the challenges that we're facing systemically and so on, you go, well, no, it does because both versions of you are facing the exact same problems. But it is so disempowering again, this sort of, everything is outsourced, everything is systemic, the world is against you. I can see how, it must be very disempowering,

must be very disempowering to be somebody who, you know, there's a, how much is a political ideology, how are you, how are you talking about it? It's like 25%. I think it's like 0.6 or 0.7. It's like very high, like 670%. Okay. Very, very, very terrible.

Yeah. Right. So my point being that you are basically working from a genetic backup of what's going on here. And you can have a world in which you want to have the driven individual agency, personal sovereignty, all of that shit. But you also happen to hold this political view that doesn't really seem to work. And it seems to be a lot of friction going on.

It's there is friction. I don't know how to explain it, but you there is a way you you have you can there's got to be way to do you have no idea what to explain it, but there is a way you, there's got to be a way to do. You have no idea what this is. I know, but like so for instance, right? I've been taking the gym very, very seriously for the past like six, seven months. I've been taking it pretty seriously for the past two years, but very seriously for the best six, seven months. Good month.

Okay. When I go to the gym, okay, it's hard. Okay, and it's hard to progress, and I'm probably starting off at a lower level muscle, and I'm probably taking a little bit longer to progress on my list than I would otherwise. And when I go to the gym, two things have to exist on my mind at the same time. One is, okay, progress is going to be a little bit slower than me, okay? I know that, I understand that, okay? I accept that, but I still have to try as hard as I can. Those two things can't counteract each other. And if you're not careful, the problem is that like, in a way,

And if you're, if you're not careful, the problem is that like, in a way, 308T for me, there's a nano-literus per desid grammar with the fuck whatever it is, right? 308 for me is like the liberal mindset. And being as big as possible is the conservative mindset, right? If I let that 308 number define me, why the fuck shouldn't even bother going to the gym? I'm never going to be as big as I could have been if I would have started lifting at 15. I'm never going to be as big as a guy willing to do TRT. I'm never gonna be as big as a guy that's just nanny more testosterone than me.

Fuck it, why should I waste more time? But if I go out of the conservative route, right? Okay, well, you know, it's taking me six months of grinding to get my squad up to like 195. Like another guy would be at like 315 by now, right? I'm a fucking weak piece of shit. I'm gonna fuck him up like, you know, I can't, I'm trying every day, I'm just gonna add five pounds of art,

I'm gonna injure myself every two months, that's the conservative mindset. I was like, fuck, I don't care about this, I'm gonna work as hard as possible. And it's funny because in a way, through my kind of lifting history, I've dealt with both of these. On the conservative mindset, one is,

I don't know how many people realize this, pushing yourself in the gym is actually really easy. The hard thing is the discipline to control your meals, your sleep, and the routine. That's the really hard part. It's really easy to go to the gym and work out to get injured. I can do that all day, and I've done that before.

It's like, fuck it. 10 more pounds of the bar, fuck, I just fucking snap my shit. Fuck, I injure my shoulder, fuck me, you know. And then on the liberal side, it's also where it's like, ah, fuck me, my teeth are low anyway. Do I really need to be shredded, right? I got a lot of fucking money, I fuck a lot of women. I'm are low anyway. Do I really need to be shredded? Right? I got a lot of fucking money, I fuck a lot of women, I'm really

successful online, who the fuck cares if I have low tea and I don't work yet? Right, so there's, I don't know how I do it, I manage to for most things in my life somehow, but you have to be able to balance those two things out. Where it's like, I'm going to work as hard as I possibly can because I want to be the best version of myself and I recognize that how good I can be as myself might be controlled by some environmental factors. But like, there's the environmental factors are saying that I can exist in this range, but in this range, the conservative or personal factors are going to determine where in this

range I exist. All on you. Yeah, exactly. I really like that conception. One of the things I've been thinking about is the gap between opinions and deeds. So for pretty much all of human history, the thing that you said and the thing that you did were very closely aligned, right? You couldn't say a thing that didn't involve you being there to say it. There wasn't some, you know, up until the fucking printing press

and who had access to that. So if you were going to make a statement about how virtuous you are, about the way that you acted, the way that you showed up, what time you got up, how many berries you caught, what animal you killed, etc, etc. All of that would be pretty much there in front for everyone to stress test it. Is this real? Now, someone's opinions and their deeds have been separated so much that all that we see of people for the most part are opinions. You can be the most loving, caring partner, the most well-balanced, liquid, whatever. Pick whatever it is that you say, that is able to be out front and no one is really going to be able to stress test what's happening behind.

This I think is fostering the performative empathy or the ability for people to do a performative empathy, which is why I'm always so skeptical when someone starts talking online about proselytizing. They're so caring about this particular maligned group. But then a couple of months later, you see them throw the same sort of shade that they've just been protecting someone against another group. And this is why hypocrisy and scandal are probably, I would say, the most catnip content on the internet, because what you get to do is it's perfectly designed for social media.

It gets to say, here is something that happened before, or that they said before, and here is something that they've done now. Look at the difference between these two things. And that's, again, the performative empathy thing, to me, makes a lot of super progressive commentators seem disingenuous, and I think. Yeah, it's a really hard one. Something that I said earlier in this conversation

was that our identity is sharded between all of society. Like who you are is not just who you are. It's what everybody thinks you are, right? As much as that is a horrible concept. This is something that I've had to rest with a lot of the past few years. For me personally, my kind of idea was like, listen, I'm gonna let my actions speak for themselves.

Okay, you might think I am a whatever, but like look at my history. And I realize that's actually not good enough. To where, so like for instance, I think I've done a lot of like pretty cool political things in terms of motivating my fan base to get out and canvas for people. Personally, I've spent, I think of this one over $150,000,

housing people, hotels, getting people to go to places, canvassing and all this. I've spent a lot of my own money on this and a lot of my own time on this. I think it's a really cool political project. But I'm not like you're like bragging about it or jerking off about it because you know, my ex-sweak themselves.

But I noticed when I show up in certain areas, people are very, very, very quick. They're like, oh, didn't you say this about Cowritten House? Didn't you make this joke about black people? Didn't you say this and it's like, okay. Well, I've also done like this, I don't know about that. I don't care. I'm gonna say, okay, well fuck.

So to some extent like doing the PR in the Virtue signaling is actually kind of important. And now I've had to be like, okay, hey, I did this thing. I need you guys to know that because in the future, I know you fuckers are gonna attack me for every negative thing I said. So I need to be like front and center all the deposits

because it's a very irritating thing to have to work because I do agree to some extent. It's nice to be like, I want my actions to speak for themselves, but your actions don't say anything. You have to actually speak for them, you know? It's very frustrating, you know? Because there is an asymmetry of attention placed on the stuff that you do that is bad. Depending on the agent that you're interacting with because they don't want to give attention to your good frustrating, you know, because there is an asymmetry of attention placed on the stuff that you do that is bad, the thing that's happening on the agent that

you're interacting with, because they don't want to give attention to your good things, you know, that is. Yes, so you need to be out front with those sometimes. Well, again, the problem is, in a world in which opinions and deeds have been separated so much, the level of how heavily you're going to be scrutinized and discredited for the things that you say, it's okay, where's the fucking receipts? Show me the homeless person that you housed. Show me the images of them going in there. And then if you do do that,

well, you're capitalizing on your, like, fucking social media altruism project. I think you just have to own some of it. That's what I say. Um, like, for instance, like for people that people will do YouTube videos where they give away money and homeless people to do whatever and feel like, Oh, you're just doing that for publicity and it's like, wow, it's not just for a pull-up, but no, no, no, fuck it. Say you are doing it for publicity. Who the fuck cares? The homeless guy that's getting the money doesn't give a fuck why you're giving a money,

he doesn't give a fuck if you're doing it for publicity, he's getting good shit. And who cares if you're getting publicity? You're getting publicity doing a good thing. Who cares if that's the only reason you're doing it? The only reason that I donated a million dollars from malaria research and fucking app for guys is because I knew I get, who cares, fine, that's fucking fine. You should get good attention for it. I think people should just own it.

But people are so scared of being like vain or whatever. I mean, being vain in those ways, I think is fine. Like if you're vain because you're a philanthropist or you're vain because like, oh, like I mentored, you know, 550 young boys and got them out of like prison and defiled like, okay, yeah, who cares, brag about it, be, you know, whatever you want about. I think it's okay to do that, but yeah.

I wonder whether, I wonder what's gonna happen moving forward. I wonder whether it's going to be the case that we need good deeds to be done so that people are going to be given more leeway with that because the amount of scrutiny that does get applied to this stuff and the amount of, like it's a disincentive. If you were to say, everybody's supposed to

about doing good things online should quite rightly be, well, yeah, well done. You did go and do that. But this sort of culture of cynicism and satire and like sadonic commentary that we spoke about earlier on seems to kind of take that away. This is, yeah, I don't think any of that actually matters at all. We talked about this earlier. I think one or two bad things is enough to undo literally everything you've done.

Like, Anna is a really great example for the Ongterics. This is like the largest, or was, the, I think one or two bad things is enough to undo literally everything you've done. Like Anna is a really great example for the Ongterics. This is like the largest, or was, I think still is, the largest like progressive left-leaning channel. I think Chank with Kyle Kalinsky helped start and fund the Justice Democrats and everything. None of that matters. She made one or two bad statements

and not people like fuck Anna, like I'm done with her. It's like, what the fuck? Do you know what the peak end rule is? Have you heard of this? Nope. So it's a cognitive bias that was discovered by Aiman Tversky and Daniel Kahneman, Kahneman wrote thinking fast and slow. During a colonoscopy, every minute the patients were given a rating and they could rate how painful the experience was,

then one day later they were asked to rate how painful it was and six months later asked to do the same. What they discovered was that there are two parts of an experience that determine the reflective pain that someone remembers, and it was the peak, how high it got, at any point throughout, and the end. So they actually discovered that they could change the remembered pain of the colonoscopy by extending the length of the colonoscopy at the end, and bringing the pain was basically how much it was moved. If you get to move a lot, it's a lot of pain. If it doesn't get moved much, it's not. So they had a control to be able to work out. So what they did was they found if they just left the little scope thing in the ass for an extra couple of minutes at the end and it wasn't very painful. In retrospect, it was half as painful. The memory was half as painful. So it's called the peak and rule.

Interesting. I came up with something called the peak and rule. Interesting. I came up with something called the peak hate rule, which is basically that every single content creator on the internet is defined by their most egregious transgression, and their most recent transgression. So Jordan Peterson is both a transphob for, you know, the Bill C-16 thing that he both became most famous for, and I don't know what he said, a's spot-delicrated, let's say. Like that's his thing. Hassan Abbey would be most famous for American sirs 9-11. Yep. And whatever he brought a attention. Donating to Amazon, I think was a big thing.

Yeah, the Amazon Union thing. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. It's okay. It's so interesting. You said this, you got there in such a different way, but I actually, 1 million percent agree. I have two different things that I apply this to. One, has to do with streaming. Okay. And I see some of the lot of people, they'll get into a very dramatic situation. And online, when you're in drama, I don't know if you've ever been at the receiving end of like, Hey, my bond line. Not yet. When it happens, it feels like the end of the world. And I always tell somebody, my saying is like, people only remember you for your last three streams. Whenever the fuck you do, don't stop streaming. I know it somebody, my saying is like people only remember you for your last three streams.

Whatever the fuck you do, don't stop streaming. I know it sucks and it feels good, but keep streaming and in two or three days, people will fucking forget. But if you stop now, this is your defining moment and you will never come back. And that rule has worked 100% of the time. I've known people, they got into a big drama and like fuck, I can't and they take a little bit of break off or whatever and they're done they can't do it They can't go back. Yeah, because it was wait what do you say atriak atriak? We see oh we see the deep thing yeah the deep fake yeah, yeah He took a big long break which is allowed everyone to kind of get sucked into it. Did he get back to streaming? He was a really big streamer though right massive time. I think he's got it He might have a he might have a break or just but like in general I'm not a lot of people who he's usually for like the mid-size people

They'll take that break and then they might try to come back like once, but then that wave of hate flush, and then they quit, and they just, they couldn't push. That's a such a note to your entire career. Yeah, and they can't come back and they get fucked by it. And I'm like, just, keep, I've had like, really dramatic things, and I had, I went to an MLG.

I got to do a super-situations. Super-situations. MLG. Pro gaming tournament. This was like 11 years ago. Okay. Really dramatic. I did stupid things.

Girl hack my Twitter account, post my dick on my Twitter. Just a very dramatic, very stupid thing. And I was home, I streamed the next day. I was like, fuck it. Streamed the next day, people made jokes, whatever. Two or three days later, as dramatic in a sentence, people were like, okay, we're done, we're through it, right? Just keep streaming, keep streaming. No matter what the fuck happens, keep streaming. In two or three days, everyone forget. What about how to deal with it into personally? Let's say that it's not necessarily a content creator or it might be.

It could be someone that just does something that causes the world to point a lot of fingers at them. How do you, like, where do you go within yourself? Do you spend time with friends? Do you reframe it in a particular way? Do you just have to keep giving new impressions of you, I think. So I had two examples. One was the professional level.

The second thing is, have you ever heard of the saying, you never get a second chance to make a first impression. First impression is so important. Something that I found, this is especially true like on dates when you're making a new impression on somebody, in my personal opinion, the first impression is largely irrelevant. What really matters is like the last like 30 to 60

people to be a general person. Yeah, it's like if you go on a date and something is like really fun and exciting right at the beginning and like the last like two hours are kind of like going, that's what they're going to remember you for. But if you go on a date and it's kind of like it starts awkward, it's whatever, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But you end on a high note.

You're that's so much better. It's so good to do that. Like just end on like a really positive impression of you or something and the next time they're good, that's what they're going to have with their head more than like remembering the first impression. I find personally people don't remember first impression that much, they definitely remember the last interaction they've had with you though.

So yeah, keep having impressions of people. Somebody had a negative impression of you, you had a negative thing, like, treat, keep trying to have positive interactions. Obviously, be careful with this. I'm not saying that if you give a bad impression, go stalk somebody at work and try to make them see you're definitely whatever.

But yeah, you can fuck up, but don't let that be your last moment with somebody, we're like, oh, I fucked up, I'm not gonna talk to them again. Because that's all they're ever gonna remember of you. Yes up, but like don't let that be your last moment with somebody. We're like, oh, I fucked up I'm not gonna talk to them again because that's all they're ever gonna remember you. Yes. I really like that And I like the fact that we've come at this from it couldn't be more different very very different angles How worried are you about being replaced by GPT-6? Do you think is it gonna take six to five isn't gonna do it? I don't fucking know. I don't know but it's like I spoke to

I don't fucking know, I don't know. But like, I spoke to Rob Wiblin, guy from 80,000 hours podcast, like Megan, EA, Effect Valtrowism, existential risk. And he basically said that he's like, looking toward the twilight of his career, is he winds down to be replaced by, like, robot robber, fucking like Rob Chat or something. Is there a, is there something unique about human creation that you think

that's not going to be able to be replicated by chat GPT down the line? Let's say within the next tenures. I think that AI is going to force us to confront a lot of very uncomfortable aspects of humanity that we have never thought about before, or maybe philosophers thought about, but normal people haven't. And I don't know what answers we're going to decide what's some examples. What is art? It's very, very difficult. So here on the broadest sense, computers are calculators and we thought for a long time

that's all they can do. But things like creativity, inspiration, that's exclusively the domain of humans. The computer's not going to be able to create a beautiful art piece, make a symphony of blah, blah, blah, right? They clearly they can. It comes mid-journey smashing that with the data. Exactly. Winning art contest and triggering people and, you know, now, if you ever hate artists online,

the funniest thing to do is when somebody posts a picture, just go in the replies and I'm like, this is so beautiful. What prompt did you use? Wow. And they'll lose their fucking mouth. Wow. But yeah, the, clearly, like, if a human can do it, a computer can probably do it. And that's a very unsettling thing for a lot of people to realize. And there's, man, I feel so bad.

There's a lot of philosophers, like philosophy of language and existence and all this shit that they would have had a lot of profound stuff to say. But it's like, what does it mean for something to even exist? So for instance, like if I can start creating stuff digitally, like here's a question, okay? I can use an AI to make like a fake person now, right? And now I can get to the point almost where I can convincingly create like dialogue, comedy,

like they can do like a full podcast, and you look at that and you're like, okay, well, that person's not real, so it's not the same. And it's like, well, how real are they compared to me? If we never interact, there's a lot of people who watch us will never interact with me real life ever, right? Is there a meaningful difference between my existence and that person's existence? The person that isn't even real?

Everything's just like a piece on me, right? A little bit, yeah. Or even more, like, yeah, like, what does it mean for a thing to even be? That's like a question where it's like, I'm really high, but now we actually have to really think about that, what does it mean for something to exist? What does it mean for human as far as? What does it mean for you to be you? What is the threshold of bandwidth and resolution

at which you need to be representing yourself for it to actually be you? Does it need to be 95%? Because there are tons and tons of things that you think and do that don't come across externally. Your inner world is a billion times richer than what you represent to the outer world there are tons and tons of things that you think and do that don't come across externally. Right? You're in a world is a billion times richer than what you represent to the outer world. And given the fact that all that anybody else sees of you is what you represent, if you

can find something that does all of the outside stuff within a couple of percent of accuracy, what does that mean that it isn't you? We basically, there has to be some axiomatic, like foundational belief that just as I'm gonna value something because it's human, but it's like unjustified, that's all it is. Because we can imagine a world where AI is no creating art and maybe people like, okay, well, I only like imperfect art

because I know that it was made by a human. Well, an AI could make imperfect art. And it's like, okay, well, right, at some point, it's like, I like it just because it's human made, but there's like, no, there's actually, there's no justification for that. We thought there was, well, and AI could make imperfect art. And it's like, okay, well, right, at some point, it's like, I like it just because it's human-made, but there's like, no, there's actually, there's no justification for that. We thought there was, well, it's beautiful because it's unique.

AI can create unique things. Well, it's beautiful because it's imperfect. AI can be imperfect. Well, you know, like, so you think that it's just a question of, like finesse and resolution and how much detail this thing can go into, that let's say, I don't know the you listen to the episode that Joe Rogan, like it was AI,

Joe Rogan did with AI, the dude that runs OpenAI, and they're talking. It's a full hour long podcast and that's speaking back with him forward, but there's some things that are missing in their fewer errors than you would expect. The laughs aren't quite right. Basically, the degree of humanness hasn't been fully replicated. But if you roll the sophistication of the program forward, it just starts to, oh, well, what you need is someone to get the word wrong three times and forget someone's name. Exactly. So the imperfect nature gets brought in. All right. So are you

out of a job within 10 years? I have no idea. We got to figure out how it's going to work. And then you got to exist within that paradigm. I have no idea. We got to figure out how it's going to work. Then you've got to exist within that paradigm and figure out how to work it. Because, yeah, I mean, obviously this is a thing that's coming and you're not going to be able to stop it because the technology's out there. It's freely available for people to work on and iterate on.

I'm not going to pretend to predict what the future's going to look like 10 years from now. Seven years ago, I thought that it was impossible. Somebody like Trump could ever be president. So why would I try to predict the future of AI? What about the danger of AI created content online? We obviously had when, when was it Cambridge Analytica 2016? Mm-hmm.

Yeah. I think so. Yeah. So Cambridge Analytica for the people that don't know was able to create, I was able to deploy very, very targeted ads at super small cohorts of people that they, the pain points of those people were understood. At least the copy and the advert for that had to be created by a real human.

It would feed back up to the humans and then you get some fucking shadowy cabal of Vietnamese copywriters to come and like do whatever the meme is that you make and then you make a joke about Hillary. Now you can do both ways for this. So you can find out which person has which pain point, feed that into an algorithm, and have an individually created piece of content that targets precisely their unique personality

to nudge their preferences in one way or another. Surely that's fucking terrifying. Yeah, of course, yeah. I don't know what the, I'm not gonna be able to give you the answer to that. I just, I'm just thinking about the future demise of the internet. I suppose as well, you know, with social media, what humans have been trying to do, and this is what audience capture is, and it's heart, is they're trying to reverse engineer the desires and preferences of the people

that they can reach, then feed red meat to that audience. But when you have algorithms working in both directions, it completely cuts out the content creator. So I wonder, I don't know, within not very long, Elia Zayukowski reckons that like fucking x% of all content on social media is going to be created by machines. Okay, well, I don't know, are we going to be able to compete with that? I'm not sure. No idea, yeah. It's going to get spookier when AI is creating like full length like movies and songs and stuff too. Oh fuck, so yeah, it's nothing's safe.

Yeah, exactly. So like, yeah, what is that? Because again, we imagine we appreciate things because like it was made by a person we think. That's probably not true though, right? The important thing is just that we think it was made by a person. But if it wasn't, like, given the fact that we presumed

that the domain of creativity and art was something that you need humans. Yeah. But actually, no, they can do it better. That's sort of, for instance, right? Like, unobjectionably, copywriting, the average copywriter on the internet is probably not as good at copywriting as GPT-4 is, if you were to say, write me an advert for this two bedroom apartment in Austin City Center. GPT-4 on average will be able to do that better than the average copywriter. Scale that all the way up. Then you could, the fuck, I was just thinking,

imagine if in five years' time you could type into whatever the new version of chat GPT is, create me a 10 hour extended version of Avengers Endgame in which, this thing happens, a 10 hour extended version of Avengers Endgame in which this thing happens and it'll probably be able to render that for you. Maybe, yeah. With all of the original characters, with everybody in there.

Yeah, it's pretty crazy. And the technology is all like, it's funny because we keep seeing the graphs of like, this is like technology, it's like this. And it keeps seeing like, well, it's gonna slow down eventually. But like, you gotta figure like, what, like this. And it keeps you like, well, it's going to slow down eventually. But like, you got to figure like what, 20 years ago, we didn't really even have cell phones. Yes.

I think I was 18 when the first iPhone came out. I think it was 2007. Well, remember, the limitation at the moment I don't think is computational. Moose law, which is that is every three years or every two years. It's a number of transistors will double every time. Every, however many years, right? That's, I think that is starting to actually top out a tiny little bit.

I don't know if it is or not. We're down to like, I remember I thought it was like 16 nanometers or maybe 20 nanometers was like the theoretically smallest distance between transistors. And I think the new tensor shit or whatever coming for the next Google phone is like three nanometers. Ismo's low-finally ending. I feel like people in writing articles like I've been for the next Google phone is like three nanometers? Uh, is Mozilla finally ending? Mm.

I feel like people in writing articles like after the past like five years. Yeah, perhaps, what's the state that's called? Consentices that Mozilla is slowing down, it might soon be augmented and then drive improvements further, right? Yeah, fuck off. Yeah, that's hard to know, yeah.

Yeah, okay. And then yeah, like look at this AI stuff where it was like three, two or three years ago, I don't think we cared much. It was still kind of like a meme. And now when like two years is like, fuck. Game over. What's happening? Did you ever read super intelligence or listen to it? No. So it's a book by Nick Bosterum who it was like these seminal, this is how AGI is going to fuck us in the ass. And it came out 2014. It's kind

of technical, but it's a good lesson on audible. It's one of the books on my reading list. And I remember saying on this very podcast, probably four years ago, I totally got readpilled by Nick Bosterham. I was adamant that this was going to be the end of fucking civilization. And this is what's going to happen. And now I'm actually kind of sweet with it. I don't think the AGI is that big of a threat. All of the promises that were made and all of the fears that came out the back of it haven't happened. And in the last six months, this has completely been fucking turned on its head. And it's like, oh, right. And this happened off basically chatbots. And you go,

what a chatbot is able to do, just scale that up infinitely. And that's like fucking civilization. Have you seen the movie, Hur? No, everyone keeps on fucking telling me to watch it. Just a guy that falls on level like a chatbot, basically. Yes. But like, here is something that I said, and I still believe this is true. I think that our acceptance for new technology, I think it happens very quickly, and it's normalized very quickly. There are some things that we think would like would never happen, but as soon as it does, we'll all accept it very fast. Here is one thing that I'm a little bit worried about, is I think that at some point, chat

bots are going to get really good at having very human like conversations with you. And I think the idea of having like a girlfriend chat bot, I think that once those get good enough, I think people will get very addicted to that very quickly. And it'll be like shit. You'll have like thousands or tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of people that have like these kind of like discord girlfriends that are just chat bots. And it sounds like silly and it sounds stupid and it sounds dumb, but I think as soon as you get one

that communicates at a good enough level with you, I think people would actually get hooked on it. Human desires are very long either, that you can press down on. I mean, you have seen this in your YouTube comments. I haven't recently, but I did a little while ago, people unironically commenting, just hold on boys, the sex robots are coming soon.

And that was before language learning models and chat GPT and stuff. There was a white pill that one of my friends and evolutionary psychologists called William Castella told me, which is you could imagine a world in which VR plus language learning models plus very advanced AI would create a sandbox in which both men and women could learn how to interact

with each other and flirt. And it would almost be like a game. So you would practice flirting, and then that would allow you to take it. Because one of the problems and one of the reasons that people have approach anxiety is that the cost of practicing and the cost of failing are exactly the same.

Every day is game day. You don't get to go up and have practice rounds. If you fail, it's embarrassing in the real world. There's no like, there's what I always say and people are asking me like, how do you like, if I want to like practice talking to women and everything, like, what do I need to do? And it's like, it's super, super, super easy. You just need to have a lot of friends that are girls in like freshman year of high school. But if you're like 26 and you have none, you're like, you're fuck, this

is a very high, but it's you going to the gym. What? You going to the gym at 34. Sure. Yeah. A little bit. Well, no, it's not because going to the gym. What? What? You going to the gym at 34? Sure, yeah. A little bit. Well, no, it's not because going to the gym is fine. I can go and lift on my own. And if you fail and snap your shit. Yeah, but at least that's on my own, but like social interaction is like so much.

But it's like I've been friends with girls. I had a friend group of girls because I went to a Catholic high school where there was all boys. And my friend group of girls was at a high school that was all girls. So when I was hanging with them, I was getting tons of human interaction

my whole high school life. So talking to women for me is like not a big deal. But if you're like 22 and you've never had like a lot of friends that are women, where the fuck do you start? Holy shit. Yes. That's very, very, very, very, very daunting. So it's like a hard thing to overcome. Yeah. One of the potential like, again, that was one of the white pills would be VR, create a sandbox in which people can practice. Another reason why the AI girlfriend thing is maybe not quite as seductive for guys or girls is that there is still no status attached to it because you're not being chosen.

So there is an element of prestige associated with being selected. And if all that you require, it's like no one brags about the fact that they have an only fan subscription that they're paying to. Like anybody with the price of a cheeseburger spare per month has an only fan subscription. What is especially being selected? I don't know, I'm not sure. I think that that is special, but there is a very real emotional component to it as well that might be more important.

Yeah, so maybe the selection thing is whatever, but if the emotional thing is high enough, because like there are people that get really I Used to think this was bullshit, but the more women I've talked to that have done escorting the more it seems to be true That a lot of the people that pay for escorts really aren't looking for like an awesome prostitute all night They're really just looking for like companionship And there's no status to buying an escort other than I guess you have the money to afford it, but like the emotional companionship that you get from it is like so big, it's like fuck it, I'll pay for it. If you are sufficiently lonely because you're living in this atomized, pod universal basic income world that yeah, well, it's hard to think like in our world like walking

into, I think I fucking hate the guy, but Andrew Tate said this and it's hard to think like in our world like walking into I think I fucking hate the guy But Andrew Tate said this and it's I think it's probably true that pulling up to a party and like a fucking with the most expensive Bugatti in the world is not as impressive as walking into a party with four really hot women pretty selects, right? Yeah, it's so like but and that's maybe people in our world might think like that But if you're like a guy who's like 27 years old and you never ever had a friend that's a girl before, are you really thinking is that guy at home listening like, God, I just want you to grow that likely so I can show everybody how cool I am. Or as usually like, I really wish a woman just talked to me because I want like that companionship. You probably just want the emotional connection, you know, or even in the status signaling.

Did you see Tate in the new South Park? No, I'm not. Did you know that he was in it? No. Andrew Tate is represented in the new South Park episode, the one that they finished the season with. Oh nice. As a Romanian sex trafficker. They don't use his name, but it's the same haircut, it's the same glasses, it's the same beard. And then the police come in and again, they haven't used his name, but the likeness is like so fucking. So Randy, the girls leave for spring break, and Randy is distressed at the fact that Kyle and his friend, Stan and his friend are playing Warhammer 40k. And he says that this is fucking gay, like, why are you doing it?

Blah, blah, blah. I'm going to ring some on and get some girls' round. And it's the tape guy that brings these people around. I mean, you've gone this season from Harry and Meghan to Andrew to started with Harry and Meghan finished with Andrew Tate, so fully all the breaths of the internet. Yeah.

Fucking wild. What else you got coming up, what can people expect from you next? I mean, tomorrow we've got all the panel stuff going on. I think we're going to Tennessee to debate some libertarian guy in Ukraine, Russia. Next month I got a Wales. And there's like a bit of a... Yeah, let's go.

Yeah. Why? Um, there's like a light festival or something. Do you know who Gieck is? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, he's going to be there. And if you're other people, we're going to be talking about stuff. So yeah, I just want to run him, check on him.

He's an interesting dude. Uh-huh. I follow a, uh, an account called, uh, like out of context, Zizek. Okay. And it's even in context, she's very funny, so yeah. Fucking brilliant. Look, Destiny, I really appreciate you, man.

Thank you for coming out. Where should people go if they want to check out more of your stuff? Instagram.com-stestiny-twitter.com-thealmni-liberal and youtube.com-stestiny. Appreciate you, man. Thanks for having me. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,