Modern Wisdom - #624 - Ashley Cain - How To Overcome The Toughest Moment Of Your Life

Episode Date: May 6, 2023

Ashley Cain is a former professional footballer, reality TV star, endurance athlete and cancer charity fundraiser. Losing a child is the most painful experience parents ever face.  But observing your child slowly passing away is a special kind of torture. What do you do when you’re faced with so much pain and trauma you stop wanting to exist? And how can you move beyond this to learn to live again. Expect to learn what Ashley’s most profound challenges in recent years were, how he managed to find any hope in severe darkness, his advice for anyone dealing with a sick family member, how he found purpose in the wake of his daughters passing, why he fought 6 police officers who were crying, his strategy for processing grief and much more... Sponsors: Get 10% discount on all Gymshark’s products at https://bit.ly/sharkwisdom (use code: MW10) Get 20% OFF with our code MODERNWISDOM at https://calderalab.com/modernwisdom to unlock your youthful glow and be ready for summer with Caldera + Lab! #ad #calderalabpod Get 15% discount on Bon Charge’s red light therapy devices at https://boncharge.com/modernwisdom (use code: MW15) Extra Stuff: Follow Ashley on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/mrashleycain/  Get my free Reading List of 100 books to read before you die → https://chriswillx.com/books/ To support me on Patreon (thank you): https://www.patreon.com/modernwisdom - Get in touch. Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chriswillx Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/chriswillx YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/modernwisdompodcast Email: https://chriswillx.com/contact/  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello everybody, welcome back to the show. My guest today is Ashley Kane. He's a former professional footballer, reality TV star, endurance athlete and a cancer charity fundraiser. Losing a child is the most painful experience parents could ever face, but observing your child slowly pass away is a special kind of torture. What do you do when you're faced with so much pain and trauma that you stop wanting to exist? And how can you move beyond this to learn to live again? Expect to learn what Ashley's most profound challenges in recent years were. How he managed to find any hope in severe darkness, his advice for anyone dealing with a

sick family member, how he found purpose in the wake of his daughter's passing, why he fought six police officers who were crying at the same time, his strategy for processing grief, and much more. A very heavy, emotional, brutal conversation today, Ashley has gone through an awful lot of challenges over the last few years. I've known him for a very long time and having seen the journey that he's been on and then finally getting to sit down and hear it first hand. Really did hammer home just how grateful I should be for the things that I've got in my life for the fact that I haven't had to go through the challenges that a lot of other people do. It is a challenging, vulnerable, raw conversation.

And one that I think should make everybody feel a lot of gratitude for the things that they do have in their life. I really hope that you take a lot away from this. In other news this episode, it's brought to you by Gymshark. Every single piece that I'm wearing in the gym at the moment is from Gymshark. The studio shorts are without a doubt the best men's training shorts that I've ever found. If you're looking for a new piece of training kit,

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And in final news this episode is brought to you by Bon Charge. If you have been learning about the benefits of red light therapy and have been wanting to try it for yourself, this is the best place to begin. Red Light Therapy has been reviewed in over 4000 p-reviewed studies with 400 plus being double blind placebo trials. Not only do these studies have amazing benefits, but no one has shown any negative side effects, which is nice and reassuring. Also, Bonsarge's Red Light products have near-infrared light and Red Light all in one device. They've got the lowest DMF on the market with no flicker and a sleek and lightweight design. So if you've been thinking that you want to use it to improve skin, to improve wound healing, relaxation, to improve testosterone, all of which has been studied even your sleep quality.

This is a great place to begin and you can get a 15% discount sight wide. If you go to bondcharge.com slash modern wisdom and use the code mw15 at checkout that's b-o-n-c-h-a-r-g-e.com slash modern wisdom and mw15 at checkout. But now ladies and gentlemen please welcome Ashley Kane. The last time that we were together in person was top-top palace VIP in Newcastle, a very long time ago. Last time that we were together. Wow. A lot of things have changed over the last few years.

When we first became friends, you were coming out the back of doing reality TV, next on the beach. You were starting businesses and doing a bunch of other things. We haven't caught up since then. What's happened with life? I'd say the actually came that you know has disappeared, vanished, evaporated. What's happened with life? I'd say that I've probably gone through the most traumatic experience that I believe

that a human being could. Always thought I was living the life before. I thought for a guy in his 20s, it didn't get much better until I had my beautiful daughter, Azalea. When I had that little girl, she made me understand what life truly was. The crazy thing about it was, you know, two months in to become a daddy.

Something always wanted to be. Something I look forward to. Something that actually made my life feel complete for once. I found out my daughter had been diagnosed with AML Ukeema. Finding out that the most beautiful thing you've ever created, the most precious and valuable thing to you has got a life threatening illness, not just a life threatening illness, but one of the most rare and aggressive forms of cancer known, especially in a child that young. It's something that not only breaks your heart but feels like it takes your soul away.

I didn't really know what to do at that point. I feel like I felt quite ashamed when I found out that my daughter got diagnosed. Why? Well, I'll paint the picture. We went to hospital. She got rushed into hospital in an ambulance. We suspected there wasn't something right, you know. From probably two weeks into her being born, she had stuffy nose. It was like cold flu symptoms, but it was drawing COVID, you know, so you couldn't just go to the doctors. The doctors said it'd be cold or flu you know get one of those things that you

proper babies nose and suck the snout. My grandma from the Caribbean wouldn't allow that she said it you know put your mouth on her nose and suck out yourself. So that's what what I did. It didn't seem to budge. Then we found out that a stomach was getting quite hard, bloated. We thought it could be constipation or collic. That's what the doctor said. So we went with the doctors, you know. But there's something about a parent's instincts that tells you when your child isn't right.

Then one morning, my partner at the time Sophia, she found a raised lump on her as aidia stomach. It was like a bruise. When we told the doctors about that, they kind of insisted that she needs to go to hospital. We rang 111, they sent an ambulance out straight away. So when we got to hospital at the time, you know, she was having blood tests, which any parent will tell you when their baby I saw blood tests, it's not nice.

You're thinking that's kind of the worst it's gonna get. But I felt and I suspected that there wasn't something right. When we were waiting for the news, it was crazy, but something in my head told me to stand up. Even though I knew that I was going to get told something, me standing up would give me a sign that I knew how bad it was before they had to open their mouths. Because I knew if it was bad news, it told me to sit down.

So I stood up and I waited and I waited. I went this team of doctors came in. The first thing they told me to do was sit down, take a seat. Then they told me that Azadia had AMR leukemia. It was very aggressive. She had a white cell count of 200, they ate them at the salt. Yeah. And at that point, I went into a state of shock.

You know, I was upset. If I like the world, when it's a slow motion, had no gauge of kind of, I had no space to the awareness, I had no gauge of what was really in front of me, what wasn't, of reality, if you would say. That's what the embarrassing part was. You know, I didn't know how to take it. Then my life changed, you know, from then on, from then, hearing that, we got frustrating to Birmingham Children's Hospital, where we didn't go home. We didn't go burn children's hospital where we didn't go home. We didn't go home to get clothes,

we didn't get home to pack anything we went straight to burn them children's hospital during COVID. As Eddie went straight into intensive care, they didn't think she'd make it through the next day, two days. I was in a room, probably quarter, third of the size of this. I was sleeping on the space on the floor probably about this white. Wasn't out to go outside to the shops, wasn't out to see family, friends because it was COVID. And that's when my journey in life really started.

What was your partner's response like when she found out? She went straight to my daughter's side. Mother's instinct to take your baby. Do you know the craziest thing about it was, the initial response for me is I crumbled. My partner straight away was by my daughter and when we were in the hospital for the first day, something clicked to me. Something clicked to me. It was like that first night lasted a year. It was like I was in a sack for a year with time to think. I was thinking of all the things that I could do to try and take this illness away. And I met how many times I thought and how many times it replayed.

It came to the same conclusion. I couldn't take my daughter's illness away. I couldn't take my daughter's illness away. I couldn't swap positions. The only thing that I and my partner could do was control the environment in which my daughter was in. And if that was the only thing that I and my partner could do, I was going to make sure that we did it to the best of our ability.

I know that baby is a sensory being. You know, my daughter and mine, I've understood what we were saying, but she could definitely pick up on the environment that we created for us. I pulled Sophia to the side. She was struggling at that point as was I. And I said, Saf, this room is Club 100. I said, when we step over this line, I said, our baby will not see us cry. Our baby will not see us upset. Our baby will only see smiles, happiness, high energy of fearless sense of belief. What we are here. Is there no cure fix respite? Was there even a 0.001% chance of survival or is it completely terminal?

So at that point, you know, there was hope. They didn't see a case of cancer like that and a baby so young doesn't usually happen. You know, for the initial plan was four cycles of chemotherapy. So, you know, you do cycle one, you're in hospital. So, say a week cycle of chemotherapy, you're in hospital for another two weeks to three weeks, then you get a couple of days at home before you repeat cycle two, cycle three. I think it was with his aideris, she was very young. The chemotherapy treatments are very harsh, you know. So they didn't know how she would get on with them. The true fighter and warrior she was. She absolutely smashed round one. No side effects. She went into round two and, the cancer would come back very early.

So it was apparent after round two that, you know, this normal cycle of four rounds wouldn't work. And they should be the stem cell transplant. We found out at that point as well that, you know, I'm half Sim Vincent and Grenadines. So half Vinci, half English, my partner's half Burmese, half English. So my daughter had quite a rare match which they told us at the time would be hard to find a Stamps-Aldona. There was lots of obstacles on this journey, but one thing remained and that was hope

you know, one thing remained and that was hope and that was belief. The crazy thing was, you know, when I heard that it was, you know, going to be hard to find where I match, I contacted Anthony Nolan, DKMS straight away to create an outreach campaign to get as many donors as possible to register in the hope. What I didn't understand was how much support we had and we had 80,000 people in one weekend register to be a donor from our daughter, probably north of a quarter of a million within a week. The special thing about that was that, you know, not only were people reaching out to be as 80's't are, but once as alien found a donor, they'd be over a quarter of a million people in that

month that would go on to help with the people and that are helping with the people now. You know, the crazy thing was about that whole journey is, I made a stand, you know, on the first day that I would be strong for my daughter, you know, I'd be positive for my daughter. I'd keep hope, faith and belief and I would not let her see me sad. She would only see daddy smiling. Because I thought I had to be strong for her, what turned out and what was apparent very quickly, when she was that strong, she was that brave, she radiated that much love that she fueled not only me and my partner and my family, but hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people around the world at that time, joined a global pandemic. She was incredible.

She was special. You said that you're being purposefully strong. You don't want to step into the ward where your daughter's been kept and show weakness. But what happens when you're away from her, what happens when she's asleep, what happens when you do go home to get clothes, what's life like for you, what's the inside of the texture of your mind like during this time when you're not with her? You get scared. You know. One thing I try and I explain to people about life at the minute, you know, when it gets tough, I kind of fire back with, imagine, fear in every second of every single day, that the next minute that comes along might be the last minute that you see your daughter breathing, that she's alive. Imagine going to bed at night

and not knowing that when you wake up in the morning, if your daughter's still going to be breathing or not, over and over and over again. That's hard in the hospital. I had to sleep there. I got so scared at the night time. I got so scared at the night time that I had to be there in the hospital at night because I didn't trust the night time. I didn't trust it. I always feared that something would happen in the night. So I had to be there. That meant I didn't really sleep, which is probably why I don't have to sleep that much now. You had observations, observations, sorry, every 20, 30 minutes.

You got beep, beep, beep, nurses coming in, nap is knee changing. I'm staring at that bed, staring at making sure she's okay. And subsequently, you know, the most beautiful time I used to feel was in the morning and it was crazy. I used to open my eyes and wake up, yeah. I used to look to the right and my daughter

would already be looking at me. And as soon as I open my eyes, she'd have the biggest smile on her face. Then I used to open her blinds, used to put my music on straight away, used to get her changed and we'd start dancing. I used to hold her in my arms all day and dance, because I was grateful for another opportunity to spend with her. I didn't have like had probably two channels on the TV, you can imagine what those channels were, I didn't have hardly any reception on my phone, I wasn't now to go to the

shops, I wasn't now to see family, I wasn't now to see friends, but I had something worth more than absolutely anything and during the most painful and traumatic time of my life, I had the most beautiful time of my life which will never ever leave me, which I will always look back to and appreciate and hold on to and be grateful for. How long does this go on for? So month three, they were in the hospital, was when Isaiah had a stem cell transplant. Again, you know, they thought she wouldn't make it through. It's quite a big procedure.

You would think that, you know, stem cell transplant, I thought, you know, you're going to this big room, there's a lot of machines, there's electronic arms, all this tech, but she just laying her hospital in her bed, sorry. And they just put the new stem cells into a virus, central liner and a chest. And that was done. Then it was a waiting game. They thought it'd probably be, you know, two to three months before she'd fully engraft.

Three weeks done. No side effects. We thought that that was going to be the end of the line. Effectively, we were prepared to go home, you know. I mean, the Nazis did a stellar job and so it would be his parents. prepared to go home, you know. I mean, the nurses did a stellar job and so it would be his parents. I mean, that room was kept immaculate, as Aileen was kept immaculate

if that makes you at Tehranapi change every 10 minutes. That's what we did. So after she ingrafted, we stayed in the hospital for another period of time and then we thought that she was going to be in her mission. We thought we were going to be outpatients and we thought we could be going to be in the bath.

So we went home for a couple of days. No, we went home for a week while she had her number points are done. That was to test if there was any remaining leukemia or had come back. It seemed to be fine. So we got called into hospital that day to go in and ring the bell. Imagine this has been like four months, no, five months, four, five months of being in hospital, you know, fearing the worst. And then we're going into finding the bound. This is a great point for me because, you know,

when I had a daughter, I kind of got myself to a position with work that I was gonna be like, full-time daddy effectively. You know, they say like a momager, I was gonna be a dadager, you know? I was gonna be there, I was going to be like full-time daddy effectively. You know, they say like a momager, I was going to be a dadager. You know, I was going to be there, I was planning my life on my little girl. She was my everything. And if I like, this was the start and this is where, you know, my journey was going to lead to and my daughter now.

I was even planning on, you know, telling her, you're asking her what she would like to do when she's at school. You know, what would you like to do if what she would like to do when she's at school. You know, what would you like to do if you didn't have to go to school today? And her telling me, and we go into the school, making up an excuse why she's got a gum home and telling her not to tell her mom. So we went into ring the bell and just as she had her checkups done, the nurse is lying the corridor on the doctors ready to clap and

I mean on colleges came in as they've got some bad news As they these relapsed Which is relapsed in a terrible way and the cancers come back very aggressive and she's got Achievements of come back in a stomach her lungs, her spleen, her kidneys and we don't really know what to do. Sorry. At this point, I had to kind of gather the staff and I had to say that, you know, that's not good enough for me. I said, my little girl is my entire world. I said, I'd die for her. I said, I would do anything for her to beat this on us.

And that means that I am not taking over an answer. I am not taking that you don't know what to do. I am not taking the fact that you want us to go home. She has fought for too long and she's fought far too hard and we have fought for too long and we have fought far too hard for this to be the end. And that was a point where we started to look for treatment abroad. You were looking for carty therapy, which is targeted chemotherapy, which doesn't obliterate the body,

but it targets certain T-sales to remove the leukemia. We found out that there was two places in America that did it, but they didn't treat children under two years of age. There was a place in China, but they weren't letting anybody in due to COVID. So we found one last place, which was Singapore. This treatment was going to cost north of a million pound, 500,000 pound initial deposit, 500,000 pound to see the treatment through.

And then obviously you have the time in hospital to monitor and test, or if you have to go from another round again. So you're looking at far and north through a million pound. It wasn't like I was poor, but I didn't have a million pound, you know. So we decided that, you know, that's what we're going to do. We spoke to the hospital. We, you know, sent samples and then it was a point of starting to go for me, which we did. I think the GoFundMe campaign, raised a million pounds within about five hours, which was incredible.

I think that goes to show the far much of effect as they had on the world and how incredible people actually are. Social media can be seen as such a cynical place. But the whole time joined our journey in hospital, it was in a reminder of me of how beautiful the people are in this world as well. So we raised the money, which is absolutely incredible. And like every stage of this journey, every moment that seems like it's going to be so happy was followed by a bank. going to be so happy was followed by a bank. The day after we raised the money, the doctors and the oncologist came in to say that they now found tumors on a Zadie's brain, which would mean that she can't travel, which also meant that she was too young to have targeted radio therapy, which also meant that if they wanted to do a lumber puncher, a chemo therapy into a spinal cord, they couldn't

because it would risk one of the tumors of rupture. Which meant that Isaiah had to go home. Now, you think that, finally now, that you do what has got a rare and aggressive form of cancer is hard.

You think that six months in a hospital room, fearing that you're going to lose your daughter every minute of every day will be hard, won't you? You think that hearing your daughter had redapsed after the hopes of taking a home would be hard. When you tell you that you've got to take your daughter home, for her to pass away, because there's nothing else they can do. That's when stuff gets really hard because I was effectively taking my daughter home to die. I didn't know how she was going to die.

I didn't know if she was going to be in pain. I didn't know if it was going to be today, tomorrow or a week's time, but I knew that my daughter was going to die at home. That's hard. That's when everything started to get really dark. Up until this point, you've been able to try and have some sort of change, having put in some way. Hope. That's it.

Appreciation of what's in front of you and hope. That's all I had. That was enough. That was more than enough. I didn't realize how much and how important that was until I didn't have it anymore. You know, I can't really explain the feeling but imagine imagine these lights in this room They just go off In your whole world looks like this dark gray tone. That's how I was seeing things That's not an analogy of how things were When they told me I had to take my daughter home my whole body went heavy If I like I was carrying a Rucksack

with 30 with 50 kilos in it and that's how I was walking around I F out like I couldn't see colors I felt like things are moving slow really slow and I felt like things were moving slow, really slow. And my body, my head and my heart felt constant pain. Constant pain. You wish for so many things, don't you think? I want that house, I want that car, I love to go on that holiday. I wish I could lose weight, I want to look good.

I want that woman, I want that man, whatever the case may be. Imagine that you're only wish in the world. Wasn't anymore that you want your baby to live. But when your baby dies, you want her in your arms and you want it to be peaceful. Imagine that's the one thing that you're wishing for in this world. That's all I could hope for. That was one new hope. He got to the point where, when his lady was crying, her tears were blood. That's scary. That's scary. But they thought when his earlier was at home, she probably last two days. Talk about three weeks, typical. She was a fighter.

She was a warrior. She was a lion. She was. She always defied the odds. I want to think I'll always be thankful to her for there was one night in particular and when we started going home that's when you could really see the onus physically. It sounds crazy doesn't it? She's got you know an end tube, she's got two central lines going in the chest but you couldn't see a poly baby.. His idea was that beautiful,

that strong, that full of life, apart from the wires. She looked like a healthy baby, but when we took her home, sorry, that was when you could see the evidence of the cancer, really having no effect. And it was one night in particular where I didn't think she was going to wake up in the morning. And I remember I went to bed with Sophia and her Zadia between us. And her eyes opened in the morning. But as her eyes opened, her breathing became labored. But as the rise opened, her breathing became labored. And I knew, I knew that that, while this was going to be the final morning. At that point, we didn't need to put any monitor on her because we knew that no matter how much

we monitor her or what assistance we call, this is it. So the only thing we made sure we did as parents was make sure that her Zaidim was rested in our arms. And I just remember, one, two, one, two, three, four, 2, 3, 4 1, 2, 3, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, as well. As you didn't breathe again. You know when you say, ah, the last time you see me and tipped up, what's gone

on? Oh, he appreciate me. And it's been hard. It's been hard. You could have locked me in the cell for the rest of my life. You could have tortured me. You could have asked me to put a knife in my neck right now from here to here and cut it. You could have took my mum, my dad, my family, do not take my daughter, you know? And that's where I've been, that's what I've had to go through. That's the trauma that I'm still battling with on a day-to-day basis now. Re-praising my mind, I relive it. And it's tough mate, it's

tough. What does this do to your relationship with your partner? That's interesting. It's a question I wouldn't use in answer. I'll tell you what, it all starts off with being in the hospital, yeah. So effectively for a four month, no. Six months out of our relationship. I'd be in the hospital room. She'd be in the hotel room across the road. You know, we'd spend half the day there each. And we'd walk down, we'd walk across. Hello, how are you? What's that?

It's hard. How's Zeynir? She doing well today? She's not doing well today. Okay. That's how it was. We were united in the fact that we're both trying to be strong for each other and in doing so we're strong for us Aida. When we lost this Aida it's difficult and I'll tell you what it's difficult because you build a relationship or enjoy enjoying each of this company right?

You're intrigued in that person. You are excited about what holiday you're going to go on. What things you can do, you have interesting fun conversations. You probably, you know, get a lot of time to enjoy sexual relations, all of these things that build a strong healthy relationship. You know, I've seen my partner for five minutes at month, one minute a day for six months. When our daughter passed away We didn't want to Go for food. We didn't want to think about

What holiday we were going on at the end of the year We weren't Interested in experimenting in the bedroom. We were suffering extreme trauma. Now, I knew what path I what I had to fulfill it, you know, and the thing is, and the only thing that I can say is, the crazy thing about minus of his relationship is even even though we are no longer together, we have more unity, loyalty, respect, and commitment to each other now than we ever did before because of the Lough Radh daughter, because of the need to evoke positive change in fighting cancer in children. And because of the fact that we wanna honor

our daughter's time here and her legacy. And for me, we didn't split up because I wanted to find another partner. We didn't split up because she wanted to find another partner. We didn't split up because we didn't love each other anymore. We didn't split up because we didn't support each other because we weren't there for each other. reach of her. I guess trying to fulfill a relationship with that much trauma becomes difficult, where that became difficult. We stood by to her, we never left each other side. I will love her until the day I die and she dies because she gave me the most incredible gift anyone on this earth could have given me. I care about her,

I respect her and I will always be there for her and I believe she will always be there for me. But I think it damaged things and I don't think you only damaged things For us in our relationship But I think it's left permanent damage for me to even think of getting a relationship going forward Maybe try to have another relationship since her. No, I haven't got the time Doesn't really it doesn't really bother me. That's a genuine truth. It sounds crazy knowing me all the years ago. I was like, I was a force of nature, back then, but it's not something that I think about on a day-to-day basis, it's not something that I look to the future and think, that's what I want.

It's definitely something that I can't, I'm not ignorant and naive enough to say that it wouldn't happen. It's definitely not in my sights at the minute, let's put it that way. Do you not get lonely? No. No. Why? 1. If I'm just going to be normal, I've got an incredible family. It's something I thank God for every single morning.

Incredible, beautiful family. Number two, I was a fierce did in my life, you know. But the main reason is because I'm aware of my mission. And I'm super focused. Laser focused on it. And I'm kind of aware that nobody is as passionate as me on my specific mission as I am. I'm aware that you can't have somebody hold your hand through your whole journey while you're chasing it. I'm aware that sometimes you need to spearhead something in order to pave the way for it to get done. I'm aware that, you know, I am seven days a week, I am 18 hours a day, I sleep five hours

a night, maximum if that. All of these things are lonely things and I'm fine with that. So it didn't really play a part in my life worrying about that aspect of it. Right now you're focused on doing things which we'll get on to. After his earlier passes away, do you immediately get galvanized into action or do you have to go through darker moments before that? Should I tell you what was the life changing moment for me? I have been to right my daughter's UDG. It was something and it was one of the, Rama thought of UDG was one of the hardest things I've ever had to do.

Number one, because what father expects to speak as doors funeral, you know, isn't better thinking about, can't even comprehend it, can you? You know, so I was trying to write and trying to create a masterpiece that could honour and commemorate my daughter what going through so much trauma. That's hard. It's also hard because I thought that no matter how beautiful my words are, how powerful they are, how much pain is in them, it will never truly be able to reflect how amazing that she was.

So I knew that I had to really dig deep in that moment and reflect so I could write something, and not only write it, but I have the courage to stand up and speak it on her day. In writing my daughter's udg, I realised the person that I wanted to be and that I needed to be. I realized about all the things that I wanted to do going forward and that I needed to do going forward.

And it made me understand what I was gonna take. And that's why I don't think there's much compromising my life now. I said that, you know, that my life and my daughter was, you know, compressed to a room in the hospital. I'm a God for you, man. So I now believe that my daughter is in heaven and I believe she's watching down on me. So that is the case. Then I said that I want to take her all around the root. If that is the case, I said I want to take her all around the world, you know, but daddy

power to the top of every mountain, to the bottom of every valley, along every road across every ocean. I said I'll take it there. And that was a life changing moment for me. But I can't lie, you know, I found drink, you know, when she passed away, I would drink whiskey, and I drink more whiskey, and I drink more whiskey and I drink more whiskey. And you know, I think at first I thought it was going to numb the pain. If anything, it may be more emotional. I thought that maybe if I would drink, I could give my mind a rest because all it felt was uncontrollable, painful, trauma that just infested and riddled my body and my mind. And eventually I was just drinking just a not myself out. I would drink to the point where I was knocked out just as a way to sleep.

And I remember something happened, you know, I woke up one morning and I found what's set. I thought if this is the man that my daughter is looking down on as a daddy, I feel fucking ashamed. I feel embarrassed. So then I decided to get the fuck up. I started honoring my promise that I made to her that day and I made to myself. And I'm having a little back. What was the darkest moment that you went through?

Personally. personally It depends They're he talking about personally in terms of you know Them telling me I've got to take my daughter home. He talking about personally like Camerda was the last person my arms Are you talking personally? you know, since her passing? There's so many moments that were, that taught me to literally the pits of how a human being can feel that when you're at the bottom, it's hard to quantify which ones were some, which

ones not. A lot of people would have tried to exit. A lot of people would have maybe considered taking their own life. Were you ever tempted to do that? Yeah. It's a... It's hard to find a reason to want to be here when you feel like everything you ever dreamed of in a little ball.

It was called Isaiah, it's been ripped away from you. You know, I couldn't think of anything worse than losing a child and for the minute I wake up in the morning, I turn around and I see a picture of her. That's traumatic for the moment, open eyes. I turn around and I see a picture of her. That's traumatic for the moment. Open eyes. At the start of the evening, I'll go down to my daughter's resting place to say good

night and say my prayers. That's how I see my daughter every single day. That's traumatic to look down and realize that she's in the ground. And there was a specific point where, he was after I ran a marathon. That year I'd done the 1,100 mile cycle for lands into John and Groek. So I'd done the three. You know, that year I'd done the 1,100 mile cycle from Lanzin to John

of Groot. So I'd done the three peaks in cycle 700 miles in between. I'd done a hundred and nine mile ultra-rath and I'd done five math things in five days in five different cities, in five different countries. Then I'd cycle 1,800 miles from London to Paris to Geneva to Rome, then I got back in a couple of days later around the marathon. And that was like the end of days off. What means that I have that idea? I sat. And I thought, no matter how much I do for other people, I would never have been able to do anything. I would never have been able to do anything. I would never have been able to do anything.

I would never have been able to do anything. I would never have been able to do anything. I would never have been able to do anything. I would never have how much I do for other people, I will never, ever get what I want at the end of it. All these miles over and all these miles are cycle. All these occasions that I give up like Christmas, I give up my Christmas period. I feel like after I've done all of that in the hope that you know, something's going to happen, I sit there at the end and I'm still empty handed. So I remember waking up

one morning and I just was to sat in my hotel room for hours. And then it was time to go home. And I thought I don't want to go home. So I checked out the hotel and I walked. And I walked and I walked and I walked. It was near the docks, remember it. So a point where there was nobody around, you know, no people, no traffic, just me in a bridge. And I stood there for a second,

and I just thought of my mom, and I thought, you know, before I do what I'm going to do, I need to message my mom. I remember writing this message, thank you mom for everything, telling her how much of a beautiful person there she is, how I could have got to the point where I've got to now after what I've been through without her and that I love her more than anything in this world. And then I put my phone on my bag and I climbed upon to the wall and I stood there for a couple of seconds. Just taking in the air and what I was about to do.

I'll take some in now. I ain't scared of dying. I'm not. And it wasn't an emotional decision to jump. I just felt like I had enough. In the next minute. and then off. In the next minute. I've hit the deck on my back, not that way, but this way. And I looked up, and it was like six right police, I humbled up, everything. I don't remember getting up, yeah.

And I looked around and in my head it was weird. It was crazy. And I remember just scrapping. And I'm scrapping these police. But these are big dudes, a lot of riot ban police, all the gear on, yeah. And we're throwing hands, I'm scrapping. But as I'm scrapping officers, they're crying.

Am I doing this? Am I doing that? I'm on a bridge one minute, ready to jump that way. Next, we'll all move back. And the next minute, I'm in a melee, the riot police that are crying, yeah. Eventually, you know, we were calm. Got my cruffs on, you know.

I'm in the back of the van. I'm still a bit out of sorts, the whole thing. I can't believe that I'm in a van and, you know, not on the floor, you're inside of the drop. And one of the police officers goes to get in the back of the van with me. And the other police officer said, no you can't, it's too volatile, you know, it's dangerous and the guy went, no, I've got to get in. And his police officer was in tears and he's saying, I know you are, you inspire me. He does so much for this world that you can't do this. He told me his name. His name is Jesus. Imagine that. Imagine that. Oh my God, fear of man, you know, I believe

I pray. That's what gives me hope. And this police officer that pulled me down is named as Jesus. And from that moment on, you know, that never became a part of my life anymore. After that moment, it was very humbling. It was another embarrassing moment because one thing that I choose to do with my life is is I don't want to hide anything. I don't want to be no skeleton in my closet. I don't want to feel like people are talking about me or no things about me that I haven't said myself. I believe in order to be able to move on from something or with something first you need to accept that something and acknowledge that something and then you have the ability to carry it forward. So I had to go home

and I had to tell you know my family and my friends what just happened. What was that conversation like? friends what just happened. What was that conversation like? Personally, it's embarrassing, I thought it's changed. For so many different reasons, we look to this point, everybody knew how much pain I was in. Everybody knew how much I missed my daughter, but everybody also knew how strong I was. You're doing these thousand moral rides, you're running the marathons, you're the guy that's doing the things. Well, I was a beacon of strength, not only for people that follow me, but for my family. You know, because I was strong, everybody

became strong. Everybody looked at me for strength. Everybody came around me for strength, for hope, for belief. And I'd just done that. It was painful because, you know, the realization for me that I nearly out of my own choice put my mom through a feeling that I'm going through now is bad. Did she see the message before you got home to talk to her? Yeah. But not in that message that I say that I was standing on the bridge. Did you think there was something wrong? Probably, yeah. You know, it was a difficult moment for everybody around me at that point.

And you know what's also very difficult? It's burning that trust, that respect back. Not in terms of people loving you because they might always love you. earning that trust and the respect back that people aren't scared every time you walk out of the door. That's difficult as a man. Do you think that that's still worried about you? I think more so at the minute, well listen, I'm very emotionally intelligent, yeah, I understand things. I'm also very honest and transparent, so I think the people around me have a clear understanding of how I'm feeling a lot of the time and especially as more things happen or I complete more challenges or I experience more of a new emotions, I find ways

to speak about them. I find ways to explain them. I find ways to deliver them to people around me. For me, number one, to get the way off my shoulders, but also to help with the people to not feel like they're alone. Maybe they feel like that, you know. So I like to think now that they don't worry about the aspect of things, because I think I've proved a lot since that day. I've achieved a lot since that day. I've spoke a lot since that day. I've spoken a lot since that day and that day made me realize something that that wasn't the way. Sometimes on this journey a lot of things are

confusing. You know, a lot of like a lot of the time in my life after that event happened. I was confused about a lot of things. The world wasn't the same. Imagine a lot of people, yeah, a lot of people ago, they go, oh God, that week's flew by. That year's gone so quick. I feel every second of every single day, my time is like this now. And I spend a lot of time inside my own head. I spend a lot of time self-analysing situations, feelings, emotions. I work out what makes me feel a certain way. I work out the best way to combat that.

I find out ways of increasing my mental strength. I'm like this all the time and also speak to a lot of different people as well. So I kind of try and work myself out based on experiences. I remember after that moment, again, because I thought, I can't really, I nearly did that, you know, I can't believe I nearly put my mom through the same pain that I'm going through. Because I was sure, you know, after that moment and after the signs of why it didn't happen that I needed to be here, that I do have a purpose, I thought, you know what, Asher, what you most scared of in this world now. And I'm not scared about much, you know what, Ash, yeah. What are you most scared of in this world now?

And I'm not scared about much, you know? I'm not scared of dying. It doesn't faze me. You know, I thought I'm scared of heights though. I don't like heights. I thought I saw from Virga. When I get high, if I put my hand over a balcony like that, I feel like I'm gonna drop my phone.

Everything gets weird So thought oh, I didn't ask you you want to jump You jump properly So a week after and it took my own life I When abroad and I got my squad over in license and I jumped 20 times in a week out of a plane. At my most vulnerable stage of my life mentally, I went and did something which would challenge me more than anything else I could ever think of doing. And it was one of the best things I ever did.

Again, very humbling. But again, it showed me the growth and the importance of stepping outside your comfort zone and the power that comes on with it. Why are you doing all of this stuff now? Why are you running all of this stuff now? Why are you running all of these races? You explained to me about your daily routine of a lunch, which puts David Goggins through a bit of a run as well. All of these extreme events, the things that you're putting your body through, the lack of sleep, the daily routine. Why? team. Bye.

Who's the person that you care about the most in this world? Name me one. My mom. Yeah. So someone came and took your mom and put on a cloud in the sky and the only way that you could see it again is if you built a tower high enough to be able to bring you back down or to be with you there again. Would you wake up tomorrow and wonder why you or would you get build in? I believe, wow, I hope that there is a heaven. I believe that if there is, my daughter is there. And I love her that much, that the hope of heaven and the hope of her being there motivates me to be as good a person as I can be and achieve as much in this world to help with us and

to make her proud that in the end I hope that I've built enough steps to see her again. I hope and my drive purely is that when I'm on my deathbed, I can have five seconds of peace before I take my last breath, knowing that I've done enough on this earth, that the open the gates are heaven for me, and it's when I reach there, and that's genuinely the truth. Are you concerned that some of the events that the approach that you're taking raising money, you have a foundation, you are wearing orange and cycling around the world, doing stuff, stand up paddleboard and canoeing, whatever it might be? Are you concerned that that might be causing you to not cope, to not be able to integrate the emotions that you're going through, that rather than just using it for good, it's

also you being able to run away from facing more of those demons? I love it when people ask me that, or tell me that. I think that might be the case. It's very interesting. I would say to anybody that asks me that, knows nothing about losing a child and knows nothing about the reason why I would choose to do this. I have never ever ran away from the pain of losing a child. I am worse myself in it.

I never want the pain of losing my daughter to go away because that pain is the only time I truly feel love. I embrace that pain. I use that pain to push me further and further. And the reason why I challenge myself, and the reason I push myself, is because when I'm feeling this physical pain, I want to have to take myself to another level to complete one of these challenges,

that is when I connect with her the most. That's when I feel like she's truly with me. That's when I feel like I can look up and say, oh baby, we did it again. So, I would say the polar opposite. When you look at my life, yeah, I, you know, I'm the founder and trustee of my daughter's foundation. That means that every day we are talking about either children that are no longer getting treatment on the NHS, that we're trying to give money to. We're talking about new trials, or new treatments that are available, which we can invest money to, new equipment. The Foundation's also got a PhD fund now, which funds new talent and research coming into childhood cancer. I visit kids with cancer, I go towards my daughter, actually, was actually going back into the

same room that my daughter was. You know, on a weekly basis, I visit my daughter at a resting place every single night that I'm at home. I raise money, I speak to every day, I push myself to the absolute limit, I not only try and create a more positive and safer space for parents as well, that are going through the same thing as me,

but people that are actually suffering with their mental health. I guess I'm not running away from anything. I'm running directly and head on into all of my pain, into all of my trauma, into all of the things that are trying to hold me down. And I run head on into it because I feel like I found a way to harness that, to push me further than I would have ever gone before. What would you say to anybody that's grieving now that's going through that process? One of the things that we can all guarantee in life is that the people that we love, some of them are going to pass away before us and we're going to have to deal with that

process as somebody that has spent an awfully long time sat in the saddle of a bike, sat in a hospital ward, reflecting on grief. What do you wish that you'd known or what would you tell other people? I'm going to try and small when I speak about this. It seems like a crazy thing to say, right? One thing that is certain in this world is, you know, everyone that's born is going to die. That means that every single person on this planet is going to experience some form of grief. I've never been a person to run away from those emotions, you know, and I never believe that, you know, it gets easier. People always say grief gets easier. I believe that the circle of grief always stays the same. I just believe that we grow stronger around it. I would advise people to talk about the loved ones that they've lost. I would always

encourage people to settle into every single emotion that they're feeling and not try and hide it or not try and run away from it. I would say to people that you know what, even though your grief is painful and even though your grief hurts, it can also be the most beautiful time of your life, the most beautiful moments that you have left, because all the pain that you're feeling now is because of beautiful memories of the person that you love and the person that you're feeding now is because of beautiful memories of the person that you love and the person that you've lost. I think that my grief has become a part of my life. And like I say, I've never tried to run away from it, I've never tried to compress it. I don't even wish that it's not there because I am quite happy and settled and grieving for the rest of my life because I know that I grow stronger every single

day around that grief. I know that within my grief is my purpose. I know that within my pain is my power. I know that within my pain is my power. I know that from my struggle, I found my strength. And I don't think people should hide that. You know, one thing that I do, I remember going on the run the other day, yeah. And it's this circuit and I went to this circuit where people run. It's like a five mile loop. And everyone's like, ah, I have five you running today, you know, 5K, whatever. I said, I've, you know, 30 miles, like 30K and 30 miles. And I went to this, um, this tackle shop because it was by a lake, you know, fishing. And I said,

I can I leave my bag to you. They said, I'm about to shut up in a minute, sorry. And they said, um, yes asked if I was running. And I said, yeah, 30 miles, he was 30 miles. And I told him a little bit about the journey. And anyway, I started running. I was about two and a half miles in. No, I was about two miles in. And I thought, shit.

I told him I was running. I told him why I was running, but I didn't tell him my daughter's name. And I turned back and I ran two miles back. Yeah, as fast as I could, just used a back-tock lock up. And I mean, what do I do? I mean, you know what?

My daughter's name is Azalea. Anyway. Okay, beautiful name. And I mean, my daughter's name is Azalea. Anyway, okay, beautiful name. And I went, yeah, thanks. And then I went back and done my run. I ran two miles extra just because I had to run back and tell him my name. That's because that's important to me.

I think it's important to also normalize, you know, this topic of grief. We're all gonna experience it. So the subject shouldn't be taboo. Just like mental health, you know, grief, conforming to that category, people talk about anxiety, people talk about depression, grief falls into that and grief causes anxiety, causes depression. You know, the root cause of grief is trauma. It all falls into mental health. I think it's a part that we should talk about because I found out and one thing that I know now is when people lost somebody before. I was, um, I was a criminal of kind of thinking it's really awkward to be around that person. I don't know what to say. I don't want to make them upset. I don't want to offend them. Yeah.

What I find out now is, those people really do want to talk about the memories they have. People do really want to say the person's name of the person they lost. People do want to reminisce and really live those good times. But it's hard to find people around them that will allow that. So not only would I say to the people that have loved them and lost, that they should talk about their loved ones and not run away from it, I'd also say if you want to be a good friend or a good family member, be there for that person to listen to. What are the events that you have focused on over the coming years? So, this year or okay, it's a lot of things I said in my UDG, I said to the top of every

mountain, to the bottom of every valley, along every road across every ocean. I mean, one of the big goals for me is it's not in the planning yet, but I know we'll do it. I want to climb the seven highest mountains in the seven continents. The whole point of that is to tell my daughter a lover from the seven highest parts of this world. You know, but this year, you know, next weekend, I've got 125 mile kayak race, which is 24 to 30 hours. That should be fun. But this is just training really for the 1000 mile kayak race I've got in July, which is supposed to be the world's toughest surviving endurance race. It's from Canada to the Arctic Circle to Alaska, and it's completely unsupported. So you kayak for 18 hours a day, find a place to pull in,

pitch up your tent, sleep for four hours, get back on the next day. You've got an hour to eat. Obviously, the problem is with it being unsupported is if you run a river that's 10 miles wide or five miles wide and you go in you ain't coming out. If you're near the side and you go in hypothermia kicks in it will take them two days to come and rescue you. Too late. If you happen to pitch your there are a bunch of goosety bears, it's game over. So there's fatalities every year, the guy said. How many people do that?

I don't know. How many people enter the race, you don't know? I don't know. Literally, you want to know how my life is. I literally got a call off one of my friends and she said that she's got a PT who's ex-military, who's into kayaking and he wants to go big this year and he wants to completely come 1000. He hasn't got partner for the race and I'm actually due to him and I said, you know, you're driven, you're determined, you don't quit.

And he said, lot's speed to ya. I picked up the phone, didn't know him, spoke to him. He said, do you wanna do this? And hundreds of things, flash performing before my answer, quick like that, done. I thought to myself, you know, I don't know this guy from Adam. Don't know if we'll get on. That's a minor problem.

I also thought that I could go out there and not come back. That's a huge possibility. But I remember when I lost my daughter in this goes on to this point of making this decision. I'd spent you know six months in hospital, I had them worked and earned her money when my daughter passed. It was an occupancy, it was the first thing I wanted to do to go back to work and earn money. That being said, I was getting offered a lot of money. You know, I was getting off a 20,000 pound to post a picture on Instagram. I said, no, I didn't want to promote this

table. So I will now this table. I was thinking, my life is that important for me going forward and I am a man on the mission that if I take money to promote this table now, how about one actually having messages that I want to say to the people? People ain't going to be able to take me seriously. So I went into a bit of a financial crisis, you know, I refused to take money. There wasn't good money. I believe that not every bit of money that crosses this part is good money. I don't need to snatch and take it. You know, I was seven months into quitting alcohol. I was out running, cycling and swimming ridiculous miles a day.

Fun nothing. Just because I wanted to be outside and I wanted to be in my door time. You know, I was doing these challenges. I was working on the foundation. I was raising money for these kids. I was speaking to people that were suffering from their mental health. I was doing all of this just for free, even though I had nothing, you know, and I remember at that point, I got down on my knees and I said to God, I was like, I'm, I'm, I'm ready. You know, I'm at the point now, you know, I can't the point now, I can't even really put,

I can't put a roof over my head. You know, I can't put a roof over my head. You know, I'm struggling to put food on the table to eat. You know, I've gave up this money, which isn't good money. I've sacrificed my time for this foundation to raise money, to raise awareness. I've gave it a drink and I don't go out. Please, please, I'm ready. And that's when the chances started coming. So when I was on the official zoom meeting to, you know, pitch myself

to get this race and the race organiser said, are you ready to go and he told me he's going to be fatalities every year? I thought, if I don't say yes, then what is that saying to my door, drawing that talk in a eudogy. What is that saying to God when I've got down on my knees with open hands? For most importantly, what is that saying to myself

when I'm brushing my teeth, and I'm looking at the man that's looking back in the mirror before I go to bed? So I said, that's fucking God. Bring it on. Because you know, when I was his mother, I was going to get to go from Canada to the Arctic Circle to Alaska.

When I'm all going to get that chance again. And I believe that, you know, if we go and we come back, boy, I'm on a whole different level. I've raised awareness, I've raised funds, I've put my money, where I'm on a whole different level. I've raised awareness, I've raised funds. I've put my money where I'm on my mouth. I've put my money where I'm on my mouth is. And if I don't, it sure obviously needs me back.

And that's good enough for me. What's the message that you want people to take away beyond your love for your daughter, beyond your relationship with that and that grief. God, there is so many messages within it. Number one, you know, I would always say to people, you know, in this world. If you ask, they would say, if you ask a healthy man, you know, what he wants, you know, we'll talk about cars, he'll talk about houses, he'll talk about women, he'll talk about all

of these things. It's yet, if you ask an unhaouthym man or a sick man what he wants he'll say one thing and that's health. You know one of my strongest messages to people is appreciate what you have right in front of you. You know I'm living a life now where the only one thing that I want in this world has been snatched away from me. But having said that, when she was here in front of me in that hospital room, I loved and appreciated every single second and I loved and appreciated that moment so much that that will fill my heart for the rest of my life. So I would always say to people, will fill my heart for the rest of my life. So I would always say to people, appreciate what you have right in front of you. I would also like to say that, you know, no matter

what you are going through in life, how sad you are, how much pain you're feeling, the trauma that you're going through. You are strong enough to see another day and it's not about being 100% every single day. It's about just showing up. That's what I do. No matter what the odds, no matter how I'm feeling, I show up every single day. And by showing up every single day and doing what I do, I believe it gives me more than happiness. I think happiness is rubbish. I don't think there's no such thing as happiness. I believe we have happy moments, I believe we have happy memories, and I believe we have happy places. I don't believe there's any such thing as happiness because there's so many things in this world on a day-to-day basis that want to go bang and take the wind out of your sales.

But what I choose to do is rather than looking out for temporary forms of validation or things that I can get to make me happy, I become competent in doing what's necessary. So the fact that no matter what is up against me, I believe that not only can I do it or have the courage to do it, I have the strength to see it through. And then afterwards, I build self-worth, I build self-belief, I have fulfillment, which I believe far outweighs happiness. I think that most of people's mental health issues or a lot of people's mental health issues sorry these days, is because they have no self worth. I believe they have no self confidence, especially men.

I believe that they're looking for Saturday night going out to pick up a drink and try and find a woman to make me feel happy rather than turning up every single day. One thing that changed about my life is I start every day the same. I wake up every single morning, that drunk man who was ashamed of himself, is his door watched down from heaven, and what I choose to do is earn my respect every single day. And for me, for other people that might look as being very intense, for me, it works. Because I go to bed every single evening I'm looking in mirror and I just think, you know what, you did alright today. What's a typical day look like for you? A typical day. Okay, so, say, yesterday. So yesterday I got up at 5am, got to travel back from another sea. I got back about

6 and then I didn't have time to have breakfast because my two running partners wanted to go out on a run. So I stopped off at a petrol station, got a flapjack and we had a 20 mile run. I finished the 20 mile run and then I had to go and do my strength and conditioning session because I need to look after my body so it's not lifting weights, it's just working on all those little shit of areas to stop you getting injuries. So I don't know, our SNC there. areas to stop you getting injuries. So I don't know how I S&C there. Then I did an hour of stretching and mobility because I needed to recover. Then I went back home and I did two, three hours of meetings in terms of the foundation in terms of my new book that have coming out in terms of a new show that I have to go on. Then I did an hour on

the kayak egg and then I went and swam a thousand meters and then I got back and I carried on work. What time was up until? I think I went to sleep fully back 12 o'clock. Then I got up at 5am to get my session in for a travel here today to do this. My day's blended into so many different projects. It's like I've got a game for my, this is how varied it could be. I've got a new TV show that's out of the minute exploring the different faces of grief. So there's a lot of work with that. I've got a new show that's been out on BBC, then another show that I'm going to be in very soon. I've got

my book coming out. I've got about four, five hours a day of training that I need to do. I've got a game that's commemorating my daughter's life and it's going to be for two year anniversary on the fifth of May at CBS Arena, where I used to be a pro footballer. There's just so many different things on a day-to-day basis that I feel like I speak to about 30 to 50 people a day.

I try and compile in my training, I try and compile in my recovery. And if I have time, you know, I get a little bit of food in between that. And then, you know, I sleep truthfully, four to five hours a night from what the next day out of bed, ready to go again.

Like I say, for me, the sleep thing isn't, the sleep thing isn't like, because I'm trying to, I'm setting my alarm and I'm getting up. That's what time I get up. In fact, even early this morning, it's probably about 24 or 24. I'll just get up. It's not because I want to.

I'd love to be able to sleep more. I don't. Then when I'm up, I always tell my management, I say like, if I haven't got anything in that hour, book me something in, you know, if it's Tuesday and you feel like Tuesday might be my day off, fill it up, I don't want the time, I hate the time. I never think about, I'm going to book a nice holiday, I never think about, you know, I'm going to go for food this weekend. You've got a lovely away up to the Arctic. So again you've got a lovely trip coming

away up to the Arctic. That is holiday. Exactly that. And I think you know it's all just stages. I'm not I will say this are you know number one I wouldn't came to be you know This is number one, I wouldn't come to be a mental heart expert. I wouldn't also come to be the best math and run out of ultramartha and run out. I wouldn't say, oh, I've raised the most money for charity. I don't try and pretend that I'm the toughest man in this world or I don't try and make the most money. What I try and do is I try and do what I feel is right for me every single day. And I just speak honest, open and transparent about that and hope that, you know, me speaking, and my openness can help

as only people on their journeys as well. You've mentioned that you're not dating at the moment. Yeah. That's not something that's a difficult one. Like I've said to you before about the day, you think it's not, it's not like I'm going to be naive and say, I'm never going to have another kid. I don't know. At the minute, I finally thought of it hard for a few different reasons. I'm a very loving person. I've got a massive heart.

You know, I have love and I have respect for every single person I meet on a day-to-day basis. But if you're my family, you're my baby, my love is uncontainable. Now for that reason, I think it would be hard for me to think of having another child at the minute. And the reason is, they say that you know, you don't know how much you'd love something until it's gone or you don't know how much you love something until it's gone or you don't know how much you're going to miss something until it's gone. Yeah. Imagine that, but you're fearing you're going to lose that something every second of every

single day. I was like this with my daughter all day. It's loved, I wanted her, you know, on its switch places. It felt like I knew her for a hundred years. And the fact that I thought I was going to lose it every single second, multiplied my love by a million. So it's not I believe that I feel like I couldn't have another kid. I just feel at this current stage of time, it would be unfair for me to have another child knowing that I wouldn't be able to love it as much as I do as I do. That's the only truth. I haven't quite got my head around that one yet.

I like to be fair, you know. And it's like animals, other animals, yeah. But I couldn't have an animal because I know that I couldn't give it the time that it requires. I would never just have an animal to have it. It's a pair. I love whatever is around me. And for me, I just think it would be unfair on the child at the minute for me to have another child when I know that I couldn't possibly love it as much as I love my daughter using the sky. much of all of my daughter is in the sky.

Ash, I very much appreciate your openness, your honesty. The difference from the last time that we spoke to now is very stark. I don't want to say that, I don't know, what you went through is something that would be wished on anyone, but it definitely seems like it's landed on if it was going to be on someone, you seem to have the capacity to have been able to deal with it. It would have been enough to have crushed anybody in almost including yourself. But coming out the other side, Alchemy is turning something that's useless into gold. And that kind of seems what's happening now. I very much appreciate you today. Thank you very much, mate.

If people want to keep up to date with the stuff that you do, if they want to find out more about the foundations, where should they go? So they can head to my Instagram, which is Mr Ashley Kane, M-R-A-S-H-L-E-Y-C-A-I-N, and then to keep with the foundation, it's the Azealia Foundation, and Azealia is about A-Z-A-Y-A-I-A. Ash, I appreciate you. Thank you very much for that. It's been an absolute pleasure.

Thank you very much for tuning in. I really hope that this conversation helped you to have a new found appreciation for the things that you have in your life and the problems that you're not facing. It's often easy for us all to focus on the things that are going bad, but there are a lot more ways that life could be worse than ways that they are bad. And spending time being exposed to stories like that of Ashley's hopefully helps us to have a little bit more gratitude. Anyway, I'll see you next time. We'll see you next time.