Modern Wisdom - #673 - Phil Heath - Elite Performance Secrets Of A 7X World Champion Bodybuilder

Episode Date: August 28, 2023

Phil Heath is a professional bodybuilder, 7-time Mr. Olympia winner, entrepreneur and an author. Phil Heath is one of the greatest and most dominant bodybuilders of all time. But what does it take to win Mr Olympia for 7 consecutive years and just what are the inner workings of his mind that led him to success? Expect to learn Phil’s reflections on his rivalry with Kai Greene, what it was like being a part of the Generation Iron documentary, how to improve your relationship with pain, how to conquer small impulses, why Phil used far fewer PEDs than everyone thinks, his 10 best exercises for building muscle, what he thinks of Chris Bumstead, his opinion on the current field of Olympia competitors and much more…⁣ Sponsors: Get a Free Sample Pack of all LMNT Flavours with your first box at https://www.drinklmnt.com/modernwisdom (automatically applied at checkout) Get 50% off your first Factor Meals box by going to to https://factormeals.com/MW50 (discount automatically applied at checkout) Get 10% discount on all Gymshark’s products at https://bit.ly/sharkwisdom (use code: MW10)  Extra Stuff: Get my free Reading List of 100 books to read before you die → https://chriswillx.com/books/ To support me on Patreon (thank you): https://www.patreon.com/modernwisdom - Get in touch. Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chriswillx Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/chriswillx YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/modernwisdompodcast Email: https://chriswillx.com/contact/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello everybody, welcome back to the show. My guest today is Phil Heath, he's a professional bodybuilder, seven time Mr. Olympia winner, entrepreneur and an author. Phil Heath is one of the greatest and most dominant bodybuilders of all time, but what does it take to win Mr. Olympia for seven consecutive years and just what are the inner workings of his mind that led him to that success? Expect to learn Phil's reflections on his rivalry with Kai Green, what it was like being a part of the generation I and documentary, how to improve your relationship with pain, how to conquer small impulses, why Phil used far fewer PDs than everyone thinks, his ten best exercises for building muscle, what he thinks of Chris Bumstead, his opinion on

the current field of Olympia competitors and much more. Phil is a very impressive human being. He is much more than just a set of biceps. He is an incredibly sharp guy and this went for over two hours. I really loved it. This great location that we found in LA, which was an active woodworking studio with a chainsaw in the background. It was really fun. And if you want to go and check that out on YouTube, you can do some other cool

updates that you might be interested in. I am back away to the UK for a full two and a bit weeks next week. And I will be recording with three huge guests, many of whom have been requested for a very, very long time. Also every Monday for the next month, we will be releasing another cinema episode from that huge weekend that we did in LA. The guests are fantastic, also massively requested,

huge platforms. So if you wanna support the show and make sure you don't miss those, when they go up, please hit the subscribe button. It really does make a difference, and we're working hard at the moment. I'm flying all over the world, trying to track down interesting people and attach them to a chair

for a few hours so that I can ask them questions. So support the show please by hitting the subscribe button wherever you are listening. Thank you. But now ladies and gentlemen please welcome Phil Heath. of the heat. Where did the name, the gift come from? Ah, well, it wasn't me, okay. It was an old roommate that I had. I was already getting into the sport of bodybuilding and he was like, bro, I have the perfect nickname for you.

I was like, what is it? He was like, the gift, I was like, seriously? You couldn't have picked a better name than this. Like everybody's gonna be like, this guy's conceded, he's arrogant, he's cocky, this and that and the other. He's like, no, no, no, no. Think deeper. You're a former division one athlete. You're intelligent. Your college educated. You have a great physique and you know how to speak to those audiences. No one's ever seen this. I was like, yeah, man, but I'm not even pro yet.

He goes, doesn't matter. He's like, I've been around because he had competed before and he's actually from Cyprus. So I feel like him being European and seeing more bodybuilders over there and just in that area because of bodybuilding being in a much bigger sport overseas than it is here in the States. He just saw talent and he was like, this is you and your gift is to give. And then I was like, ah, that's what I'm going to use it as. Allow people to form their own opinion initially, but that's based on their own stuff. Even like me, I was like, oh, yeah, I think it's this.

When really it's not. It's about what I can give to you. A gift is something I can give to you. So then you do what? You have happiness, you have joy, you have peace. And I use the gifts that I have, and obviously in bodybuilding, you know, did some incredible things,

but it was about how I got there, so then I can help other people get to their, you know, champion podium, to go through their levels of adversity, to create better moments of triumph. And I love the nickname because I feel like we all have a gift. You have one, I have one, everyone has one. But we have to face those fears as well and understand that we're only as good as the

tests. Are we truly battle tested? So it's like, what makes a person so smart? What makes a person, you know, we always see like, oh, well, Shaquille and I will hit a lot of free throws by himself, but when the lights are on, maybe not as much, right? So you can't say like, oh yeah, this guy, he's so bad at us, it's like, no, man, that gift is only as good as it's been

tested and it's been forged and fortified over and over and over again. So for me, it's just, it takes on a greater meaning than just like, oh, yeah, he thinks he's God's gift to this. It's like, oh, no, I can be if I pour into myself and be willing to pour into others. So 17 years old, you do this interview and somebody asks you whether or not you're going to make it into the NBA. You said, I don't know about the NBA. Ah, you saw it.

But I know that I'm going to be pro at something. Yeah. Where, at the age of 17, playing basketball is a 5'980 pound guy. Yeah, man. Where do you get the self-belief from that you knew? Because you, despite people's assumptions, and I really want to get into this, it's not like you came from some privileged background. It's not like you had things, whatever the opposite of

a silver platter is, it was kind of that scenario. How do you develop self-belief at an age where you only have minimal evidence that something's going to come of it? Only have minimal evidence that something's gonna come of it. Well, understanding who is pouring into you. Mom, stepfather, my father poured into me. The coaches that I had poured into me. I had friends that are highly competitive that forced me, and that's a key word, it's competitive nature. Like I said, I grew up in Seattle, Washington,

so you gotta think, at that time, I was born in 79, so just in my neighborhood, we had guys that are now pros in something. I was neighbors with Nate and Kevin Burleson. I was neighbors to Nate Robinson, to Jamal Crawford, to Jason Terry, to all these different athletes, right? And we talked about just the guys that you may recognize.

What about the other ones that didn't make it? So my whole journey was about finding who I am and not being afraid to be who I am, who I'm supposed to be and having that killer instinct. So I had a coach by the name of Mike Mathia, and he still at my high school to this day. And he was probably the Bobby Knight of basketball back then in high school sports. So like, well, yell at you, we'll curse at you, we'll damn your head, you upside the head, right? Totally different than what we could get away with today. But

you know what it was? He just wanted to pull it out of you. Like, you know, like some people can really see something within you. And they know that you're being really timid and they can't whip you but they want to like shake you. It's like the coach that grabs the face mask of the guy and says, you can do this but I got a yell. I'm losing my mind here. You're messing up and I know you can succeed. So, you know, at that given point in time, you know, I got the opportunity to get a division one scholarship to the University of Denver, sign that letter of intent, and then I was interviewed by the Seattle Times, and something just came over me, I was like,

okay, you already beat the odds. You're five at nine, and I was actually 155 pounds at the time. And, but I already beat these odds. I was a guy that was already dunking a basketball. I was already running a four, three, four. I was doing, I was a state that was already dunking a basketball. I was already running a four, three, four. I was doing, I was a state, you know,

a hundred meter track athlete, you know, I'm like, I'm ready to feed a lot of odds, like, but I had to be real and growing up in Seattle, you understand like what else is around you? So like, you have basketball, but you also have Microsoft. You're seeing more millionaires come out of Microsoft than you're on the NBA. So I guess just through repetition in my mind of always having something to carry you beyond

athletics with academics and stuff because that's my parents. You know, they always forced that on me. Always have something to fall back on, right? Still to this day when I hear that, I'm like, man, I was prophetic. That was not for me, man. That was from source above. It was like, here's telling the truth. You may not be pro-embatical, but you're definitely going to be pro at something. I became that. So I think a lot of people hearing that plus the gift, as the nickname, plus this illustrious career of Seven Olympia wins and everything else that he achieved would presume, okay, this guy, even if not everything was handed to him, psychologically, he had all of the tools ready from the beginning, from before the beginning to be able to do this.

Can you take me through the day of your first show on what it felt like to step out on stage? Oh, well, the night before I asked all my teammates to also live in the basketball house to not bring the party back to the house. Of course they did. So about two in the morning, you know, I'm over here being awakened

because I'm living in the basement, right? And I have forgiven them, but, you know, like, I have to be realistic. They were gonna do it anyway, right? And I have forgiven them, but you know, like, I have to be realistic. They were going to do it anyway, right? College girls, you know, red cups, you know, it's just loud music. But then realizing, I'm in it. I did all the work, remove myself from this situation, go to your car, which is parked in the garage, sleep in there. So have a car you can still sleep in there, woke up, and my friend Josh Crandall picked me up and drove me to Boulder, and I'm literally telling him, if I don't wind this damn thing, I'm like, I don't know if I could do this again because so much work for someone

that could tarnish this. It's not like basketball games like where you can go out, you can drink, you can party and all this. It's still going to be a game. Bodybuilding, no way. And I learned firsthand, right? So going into that first competition, you know, walking in there, there's a couple of things. Of course, I'm already tired from last night. And then also realizing that I don't really know what I don't know. So I, just because I watched a bodybuilding show in person and on a VHS tape,

watching Ron and Coleman win a 98 Olympia, it's different when you're there signing up, putting your name on there, buying your NPC card and all this other stuff. And you know, what are you gonna do? You're not looking at yourself, you're looking at everybody else. with you looking at everybody else you forget who you are so much that I'm like whoa this guy Whoa, he's got all these muscles in his vascular and missing that in the other

Looks like he's on PD's or something my friend goes he is and, what? I'm not like, why didn't you tell me this? I was like, man, you asshole. Like, what's going on? And he goes, you would have never done it if I were to told you that you were going against people like this. I was like, what? And he was like, just be chill, man, you look great.

Yeah, sure, yeah, sure. So of course, I was leading with a lot of anxiety and whatnot. So as I was walking on a stage, I thought, I need to dress myself with a cloak of armor, of like strength. So that's when I was like, you know, walking out like this, like the Terminator. That's what I was thinking,

I just walk out like the Terminator, like be strong, be this. When really I was just looking like an idiot, but I was looking at, looking like a guy that was totally insecure. And that false provotto was definitely on stage. And everybody started laughing. But now I'm thinking, oh my gosh, I'm so exposed that they can see the false

provotto too. Oh, man. What's going on? It was the fact that they had seen everybody else. And I'm going to win this whole damn show, but I don't know that. So I'm paying attention to the negative beliefs more than the actual reality that I've done the work. I'm gonna win this thing,

and that was time to own all of it. So it wasn't a bit to the point by a lady that yelled out, smile, you're beautiful, that I realized like, oh wow, okay, now I can be in my own. So I did the novice and they open. So then I could get more practice because I recognize that if you only do one category,

you're up there for, you know, it feels like an eternity, but you're only up there for like a minute and then you're gone. I just, you know, the open, I did the novice and they open. So it all worked out. But after that pre-judging, I was like, holy smokes, like, how exhilarating is this? So then coming back, then I had like more of a smile, and then I'm like,

I got to swagger. Now I got to take the swagger from basketball, transfer that into bodybuilding, all in my first show. And I won that whole damn show man I beat them all down and what was really cool was that that was the the same evening that I met Jay Cutler as he was in his pursuit of becoming Mr. Olympia so I remember taking the picture with him backstage I was like so hey man what do you way he's like I'm 290 and I was like well I'm 190 now what you know? He's like, I'm 290. And I was like, well, I'm 190 now.

What, you know? So, so we, you know, I'm sure you probably have seen the photo with he and I, you know, and that's how that came about. So the lesson I love from this is there's a little bit of a juxtaposition going on here, which on one hand, massive capacity, massive capability, self belief, but also crippling insufficiency. And that from somebody that's won all of the world championships that so well known,

millions of followers in spite of lots of people, I think it's so important for normal people who, as of yet, haven't fulfilled the dreams that they want to, to be able to understand just how visceral the fear and the embarrassment and the shame and the uncertainty of any glory at all. The fact that it took some little lady in the crowd to shout, smile, you're beautiful, to give you the license to believe and work that you'd already done. Right. I think there's so much. It's that as inspiring of a story as winning the Olympia 7 times, I think, because with the future knowing where you were going to go, but seeing the lack of self-belief, it gives people who right now do not have that degree of self-belief. Right.

belief, it gives people who right now do not have that degree of self-belief. Right. Oh, well, it doesn't matter. Like even the guy that was supposed to be the gift, he steps out on stage in these tiny pants and he can't believe that he's going to do it and this lady has to bring him out of his own head. Yes. I can do it. Yes.

We all need hope. We all need to, in my opinion, know thyself. My friends got that tattoo done his back. He says he always wants socrates behind him. Yeah, you have to be in that pursuit of knowing yourself. You play video games at all? Yeah, a little bit.

Mortal Kombat, have you ever played that? Back in a day. Back in a day. You know, as you go up the levels, who do you face? Yourself. Oh, yes. Remember, you have to fight yourself.

So it's a beat, the character, you're beating yourself. So that means you have to know everything about you to be better than you. Well, ultimately, the most difficult enemy that you're going to encounter is going to be yourself. I think a lot of the time, I got this story about Winston Churchill. Churchill is showing a young MP around the houses of Parliament. And this young MP, here's the bathrooms, and this is where we go for lunch,

and this is whatever, whatever, right? And imagine Churchill's sort of blowviating around. And anyway, gets down into the House of Lords and you've got the benches. Now the distance between the two benches is the distance of two broad swords held out at arm's length. But precisely the reason that you don't want to do it. And anyway, this young guy who's probably

full of himself and full of testosterone comes in and he starts gesturing at the other side, the other benches, he starts referring to them as the enemy. And Churchill turns to him and he says, that's the opposition dear boy, the enemy's behind you. And this isn't literally what he meant, but figuratively, I think what he means is that your own worst enemy is always the one that is playing on your team. The person that's inside of your head knows your weaknesses, they know all of the buttons to push that you wouldn't dare say to even your worst enemy, and you will consistently deploy that to you when you've tried your hardest,

when you had noble intentions and fell short despite it not being your fault, and you are able to treat yourself like the worst piece of shit in a way that nobody else would and if they did, they would be out of your life in a moment. So I think that, yes, seeing yourself as both your greatest potential fan and supporter and also your worst potential enemy. Well, you have to, you have to, and I agree, I mean, you have to expose the lies, You have to, and I agree, I mean, you have to expose the lies. Expose all the lies that you tell yourself, now let's be clear. We have what, thousands and thousands of years of DNA

stored within us. So some of those stories aren't yours. Could be your parents, could be grandparents, uncle, something, right? Expose those lies, man. I've learned now, you know, growing up that, okay. I am good enough. Why am I talking down to myself?

Don't I want a championship moment? Don't I deserve that? And all I have to do is give myself permission to be me. And yeah, I may fail. But what drives me is that a lot of the time we're always, oh, what's my calling? And even in that moment on that stage, right?

Or I still remember the lady's name, her name is Margaret. She gave me permission to be me. Where are we giving ourselves permission to be our best version of self? You have to give yourself permission every day. You just woke up every day and then didn't even, first of all, you didn't even think your body for putting up with your ass.

So I should give myself permission and almost declare it every day. Like, I declare that I'm gonna go out here and make a difference in my life. I declare that I'm gonna go do this cardio that I freaking don't. Like I declare that I'm gonna go out here and make a difference in my life. I declare that I'm gonna go do this cardio that I freaking don't like. I declare that I'm gonna eat better.

I declare that I'm actually going to look at my wife in the eye and tell her something sweet. Pick up the kids, pet the dog, whatever. Say hello to that one employee that, you know what? Typically, I don't really like them. But today, I'm gonna do something different because I'm gonna change the pattern. I'm gonna change the pattern.

I'm gonna make it work for me because this life is worth living. So I give myself permission to be great. And I think what happens is, by giving yourself permission, other people see that and they get frustrated because they're like, how did he figure it out? Because all I did was answer the call to my own greatness. Your ass is still wondering where the call is coming from.

It's already there, just pick up the phone and say, I accept. When we don't accept that calling, it then goes to somebody else. Someone else got, hey, who's gonna pick up that phone? Someone gonna get that? Well, it's for you, Phil. No, oh shit, who's gonna pick up that phone? So I'm gonna get that? Well, it's for you, no, oh shit, it's for me. If I don't pick it up in time, the way this works,

it's gonna go to somebody else and then they're gonna get the championship moment and you and I both have seen this where they've been happening in our lives and someone else is like, when they don't pick it up, if you don't pick it up, oh shit, that's when you don't get the girl. You know, you don't get the date for prom that you really wanted. You settled for something else because you're in decisiveness because you're fear.

You didn't get the job. You didn't go to the school. You didn't get anything that you really wanted. And now the person that had half as much as the talent as you that just took a risk on themselves and gave them self permission to succeed. And if they fail, so what? You're hating on them. You're talking shit about them. You're saying, oh yeah, must be nice. Must be nice. You get to go on the vacations. Why does he have to? Oh, he's a kiss ass. He's this. He's that. No, you dummy. It was you and your inability to execute. So by me seeing that in myself and being a was, I had to eliminate that shit right away. Because I recognize in certain areas of my life where I did stand up and say, I'm going to do this. What was the outcome? I killed it. If I go up to the squat rack and I see 450 pounds or whatever it is, and I'm like, I've

already lost. I have to go into it knowing that I should win because I've trained for this. Now I haven't trained for that. There's danger. There's extreme danger with this. And I shouldn't do it. But if I train for this, I should know that, yep, it's heavy. It's going to be heavy. But I'm going that yep, it's heavy. It's gonna be heavy

But I'm gonna take it for a ride. You ready and when I pound that chest, oh, I'm ready And it's me reminding myself who the hell I am and that way I can then and only then impose my will on to someone else You can't impose your will on someone else if you don't know who the hell you are And that's what makes the Michael Phelps slapping the freaking water to the Usain Bolt. You know that it's all effective shit. Michael Jordan, the only guy to ever have his tongue out while he's driving to the basket and dunk on your face to fly to the bow jaxons that, man, I mean, if that guy never got hurt, but did so much breaking bats. This guy was like a demigod and was never afraid of being who he was.

So that's why I always admire those people that believe in themselves. And you're telling me that they didn't have moments where they're having that tactical mindset on their head like saying, you can't do this, Phil, come on. And you don't know anything. Oh, you want to be an entrepreneur, you want to run a business. You don't know that't do this, Phil, come on. And you don't know anything. Oh, you want to be an entrepreneur, you want to run a business, you don't know that.

No shit, dude, it's not like I didn't know anything when I picked up a basketball the first time or played a piano or played the freaking Nintendo game. I didn't know, but I had passion behind it. I was curious about it and I put effort into it. And I was passionately present with others so that I could yield some good wins and I could easily say I've had more wins than losses and I've had,

I'd say more than 95% of those wins come from extreme competitive nature derived by positive belief like, you could not be around me at the Olympia and say, hey Phil, you think you're going to win this year? Get the fuck out of here. Why are you even still standing here? You would not ask a mother that is getting ready to give birth. Hey, you ready to... What are we talking about? So you know, a lot of people can only understand so much of this, right?

But in their own lives, I think this is the most relatable thing. Being in relation to, like, you know, obviously I would tell myself, feel you're so misunderstood because of what you achieved and it's that. Well, now I recognize it's about what's in here and what's in here that I can give. And this is part of this conversation

is that you have to give yourself extreme permission to just learn and be curious and ask questions. And say, man, I don't know, man, Chris, can you, you know, you've been podcasting, you've been doing all these episodes, I'm just getting started. Like, what do you think the three things that I should be doing right now? Do you see anything in me? Because I believe that these are my qualities. And do you think those qualities can be applicable into this? And just sitting back and shutting the hell up and letting people speak, right?

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brain health, this is the way to start your day. Head to drinklmnt.com-modern-wisdom to get a free sample pack of all eight flavors with your first box. Plus there is a no BS, no questions asked refund policy. So you can buy it 100 cent risk free. That's drinklmnt.com slash modern wisdom. There's something came up when you were talking about your coach that perhaps from a bygone era would have grabbed you by the scruff. I told you to do that. Yeah. Quote from a friend who I was with yesterday says, cry to someone who pities you rather than believes in you.

And it makes me that treating self-love or believing that self-love is holding yourself to a higher standard than anybody else is such a beautiful reframe of saying, okay, what do you want? Like, what do you want in this moment? Things are hard. The diet is difficult.

This business you're trying to get off the ground, the job that you're trying to go for, it's not happening. What do you want? Do you want sympathy? Or do you want me to have higher standards for you than you do? Thank you.

Do you want me to hold you to a higher standards than you do because I believe in you? Why do you think I'm holding you to high standards? Do you want me to hold you to my standards than you do because I believe in you. Why do you think I'm holding you to high standards? Jot me to hold you to low standards? Yeah. And they wonder why they were getting yelled at by their teachers getting the call from you. I used to get calls home from the teachers, right?

Once a quarter, it was like clockwork. Phil was being disruptive. Well, it's probably being disruptive because I had to explain this to my mom I was like I'm being disruptive probably because I'm getting my work done first Because I'm like wanting to get this done first so I can be left alone Yeah, but then I like turn around and I'm like, hey, what's up, man? What's going on? You know, I'm in and I get caught But then I used to tell I remember on more than one occasion I went after they I we'd get the call,

and my parents would sit me down and just, you know, they ground you. So the parents would sit me down, and they ground me, right? You said you wouldn't do this anymore, we got a punishment known in Tendo, known this, you know, we can't go out with France, whatever it is. I go up to the teacher and I'm like,

seeking retribution, man. I'm like, hey, man, why'd you call my parents, man? You know what I mean? Like not that I could threaten an adult. But I'm like, but Timmy over here is throwing pencils and paper and this and that and the other. And I remember this happening on more and more occasion and the teacher would say, meet me after class.

I gotta say something to you. And you know what it was? We don't expect something from him or from her. But I see something in you that, and your mom told me to ride you. So I'm going, oh, mom, man, what's going on? And I realized that is a form of love of saying, hold my kid to the higher standard,

because obviously they see something that I don't see. What do they see? They see talents? Someone who believes in you. Someone that believes you. So right. So therefore Oh, you got a you got a three eight. Why didn't you get a 4.0? Come on mom. They's like no, but why not? Why can't you and why can't you do it for just more than one quarter? Why can't you do it for more than one semester? Why can't you do it forever because Because we know that you can't. Right. Well, you've already proven it. If you can sit there and play video games for three hours, you can do that. You can read a book for three hours. So this is something that I think is really important to drive home. The better that you get, the better that

you realize that you can become. And in that way, the more that you work, the more painfully you become aware of your deficiencies. And I think this is anybody that feels like they have potential, the real pain in life is getting to the end of it and realizing that you left something on the table, I think, that I had unfulfilled potential. I could have done more. And I didn't. I could have done more and I didn't. Right. So in some regards, having a high potential is a blessing and a curse because the standard has now been set or at least the ceiling has now been set and it's a case of, okay, how close of that you're going to get.

And that's high. That's really, really high ceiling. That causes discomfort in people. Oh, at some point, for me, I had to realize there is none. And I'm the one that said there's no ceiling anymore. But with that comes with the unknown and now you have to do the real work, right? So let's just say when in my first Olympia in 2011, you know, you see all those wise and rude

and you're like, oh shit, like I did all this stuff and now it all makes sense. All those things got me to this moment right here, okay? But next week, I got three days of photo shoots and I gotta get on a fight to India. To go compete against the same people that I just beat. The last thing I need is to let up off the gas and give these guys an opportunity to knock me off because theoretically they'd say, oh man, Phil got lucky at the Olympia.

Now I got to like solidify the win. So how many people think of life like that of saying, I need to solidify this win. If I was, if I was salesman of the quarter, why not of the year? And if I was it last year, why not this year? And it just goes into that, you gamify your own process. You can't expect everybody to care about your success as more than you.

But a lot of the time, it happens. Because you see, your parents see potential coaches, teachers, especially in the beginning when you don't have the self belief. Right. So at some point you have to remove that and say, well, I get that and I appreciate that. How about I prove myself right from what's what does that mean? Well, let me just drink. And let's visualize all of it. Let's visualize what abundance really is. And realize that there's a pain tolerance involved.

But how do I handle that pain? Talk to me about your relationship with pain. Well, my relationship with pain, oh man, I mean, we don't have enough hours, but I can give you an example of how I deal with it. Well, you can easily super hyperfocus, like going to the gym, let's say, you know, breakups make great bodybuilders, those type of things, right? We already know that. But I'll give you one for instance, I've shared this story, you probably already know it, but you know, a few years back, like eight years ago,

oh, nine years ago, I was actually guest posing in Cleveland, Ohio for Dave Lieberman. Did a great event, you know, I'm posing, I'm having fun, having a great speech. Can't remember everything, but I remember getting like a standing ovation, it was very rare. Like people like, yeah, like this is awesome. What he was saying and pouring into us. Then I get an alimoe to go back to the hotel

where I rinse all the tanning off and then I go do a meet and greet with like a hundred people inside of a restaurant. I found out that my father had passed passed away and I had the phone on speaker and the driver's like Mr. Heath and I said just slow it down a little bit, slow down the the drive. If you don't mind so I get to the room and I'm like no tears. Does that make me callous? I'm trying to process this. It's like, well, you already knew that you're damn sick,

so this should come with no surprise. It's upsetting. Opening up the laptop and going on Facebook and then realizing that that's not the way to handling things because that's how everyone else handles things and you're not them. And you're not giving yourself a time period of digesting what just happened. That isn't me that you're going to burst out in tears. It isn't me. You're going to yell. But I gave myself permission. I felt like, oh, I need to give myself some time to kind of like just sit with

this and ask myself, what does this mean? You know what I got? It's like John C. Maxwell talks about the whisper when you're in silence. You get a whisper. It's usually from above, right? Or your consciousness, you know, like something that's voicing you, hey, you get a whisper. So it's go to work. You got work to do. And that sounds like my father, right? So I'm like, okay. So I go on the shower, I get everything ready. and all I did was do a nice gesture. I called up my best friend, put him on FaceTime, and your friends kind of know you. So the minute I did, they was like, no.

And I was like, yep. Shout out to Kila Police. Cheers to my pops. That's that. By now, the promoters heard what was going on. They gave me every opportunity to just walk back to the hotel room, get a meal, send up, and call in a night, get on the next flight home. I said, no, I'm good. I just needed

this moment, just make sure there's no pictures. Me and my boy were just talking, and I did that, and I did my job. Because guess what? I'm not the first person to go through this. And I look at it as a badge of honor of how I handle things and battle test at moments. So I never was in the military, but I always think of that. Like people that get those stars, those badges and stuff, they had to go through something. This is my opportunity to say, you know what? I went through this. And now I can help somebody else go through theirs because you imagine going through these things. So you talk about paying absolutely. I mean, yeah, I was upset. But there was no time for that yet.

What I've learned is like you have to still give your body minus spirit an opportunity to let those feelings come. And you can't always push them underneath. And I did that throughout a lot of my career. So I do understand paying of death with my father, his wife passed like two years later. Now I got my half brother, high function autistic, perfectly fine as far as like it's

Scholastic Achievement's concern, super hyper focus and that graduated high squat 15, five theta cap at 16. But now do I have to change my why to make sure that he's taking care of financially, right? Huh. Dilling with the divorce at the same time, of running the business that's crumbling, having the ridicule going online because now in the Tomb Raider bodybuilding, realizing also that I'm now chasing, you know,

the J Cutlers, the Doreans, and now Arnold's of Olympia Championships. And saying, why am I doing this? And having the pain of just the physical torture that I had to put myself through and I put myself through it on purpose, because I knew in the end, it all be worth it. So I say my pain tolerance, I think, is very, very high.

You know, I went through divorce, death, business, ridicule publicly. Um, those are all relatable things, but I did it all while still kicking a lot of freaking ass on Olympia stage. And that made me more powerful on Olympia stage. And when I walk out, I'm like, you guys have not gone through this. I know your life, right? Because on social media, we all kind of share a lot. And some people over share.

So now I really know what's going on with you. I'm like, oh, you haven't gone through this. Therefore, you didn't have to do some self work. You you have a some of these guys had a perfect life, right? I'm like, man, you didn't have these struggles in shit and you can't even diet. You can't even train. You have a whole entourage picking up your weights and stuff. I trained by myself 99% of the time. Well, I know who I am. Like how Dore and Ace would say, they could never out train me,

they could never out, that's why they couldn't beat me. I felt the same way, I out prepared them. I out-motivated myself. When I'm looking at myself in the mirror, I'm like, yeah, you're here. You're here to work. And you're gonna get this job done.

And I call myself MFR a million, probably a million times times because I also knew What legacy really means what legacy really means is when you're in the dirt or in some mausoleum or whatever People have some incredible things to say about you because of what you not just won But what you provided them and they knew that even your The biggest hater is actually one of your greatest sound boards when you're done, because of what you did. So when I decided to not compete, those biggest haters that were just... I mean, they weren't driving me and saying, I actually enjoyed it.

They were the ones that said, man, I wish he came back because I don't see the level competitiveness in this sport ever again. And man, I wish I could have appreciated him. And I look at that and I say, that's life. Sometimes we don't appreciate what the tool's gone, but it's really cool to know that those people that just despised your greatness, really embraced your greatness in all essence.

Because it was a reminder, Phil, he's coming to the Olympia, there's a standard. I could, let's say I came back next year, not this creating me, right? Yeah, that's what the internet's like. Right, it's gonna, yeah, yeah. But let's just say I did or did the Arnold Classic or something like that.

People would get excited and some people would say, oh, we can't do this and that. But then some there's going to be a large majority says, but what if he did? What if he isn't hurt? What if he isn't this? What if he is who he is? They say, well, it's over. It's not just like, oh, he has a chance. It's like, no, it's freaking over. And that was because of the standards that I created for a long stretch of time.

It was not luck. And that's why I loved speaking, public speaking, talking to different corporations and talking to C.C. with executives about stamina, which is a word that is never used, whether it be in business or in athletics. It's very rarely used. How often do you hear the word stamina? They don't. They talk about peak performance, but peak performance just goes,

soon, and it may go down. Let's go peak performance and hold it. That'd be much cleaner endurance, but I like stamina. You know, stamina in the bedroom, stamina in the gym, stamina, you know, like stamina reading a book, you know, but having peak performance with enough stamina, you are freaking unstoppable and you are now a machine. And I just, I love people that are having high standards of themselves

because they're always having an endless pursuit of personal excellence. And it weeds out the bullshinners. It weeds out the fakers that we see online. We see so much of it right now. And I think it's our job to do exceptional work on ourselves. So then the consumer of content will realize He actually has proof in his performance based on the journey that he can share that he's shared because I mean in your life too. I mean, you know You're a great storyteller because you've done work and you've had experiences Some of the younger people haven't gone through that yet, so we can't talk about things yet. And a young Anakin Skywalker cannot talk

in retrospective like who he was as Darth Vader before he passed. He didn't know who he was until the end. My job is to check in with myself. You know what I'm saying? In different chapters of my life, let's check in. Let's journal a little bit. Let's actually use a pen and paper

because we know the neurological connection. Let's do that. Let's look in each other's eyes when we speak. Let's not do this at the dinner table. But let's also give ourselves permission again to acknowledge our failures and trim the fat seriously when possible. So you start off with this, the gift nickname, it sticks with you, it's got multiple meanings, it's layered. And then there's a really interesting period sort of 2012 to I guess kind of 2014,

15, where the dream killer comes in. What did you think about having that name? the Dream Killer comes in. What did you think about having that name? I loved it. I actually loved that one more than the gift sometimes because that's like, you know, they say Kobe Bryant, Black Mamba, Black Cat for Michael Ert Jordan. Is it you, Santa, is it you saying both, the both,

you know, like all these nicknames, you know, and Dream Killer actually came about because of the fans. After Generation Iron was published, I was getting ready for the 2013 Miss Olympia and I had a feeling that that was my opportunity to close the door on Ky Green. There's just close the door. Because when the movie would come out and if I lose then they're gonna watch the movie even though it was based on 2012 Know what game you're playing Phil the way people see things on TV. They may not watch 2013 They may think that's a previous show now. You're not champion anymore now that movie just makes you look like oh you fell off

So I put that added pressure on myself and I stepped up to the challenge and I said, you know what, you're gonna train harder, you're gonna train smarter, you're gonna, you're gonna do whatever it takes to, you know, beat the living shit out of them on stage, you know. And then I was like, well, how do you do that? I was like, all right, well,

sometimes you gotta train angry. Take 21, take 21, merge them, 2013. And I had one called out that year, right? Well, like I said, after Generation I, a lot of people had opinions about me that I felt it was very interesting, because it was a docu-drama, and it wasn't a documentary, right?

So take me through this experience of filming Generation I, and so for the people that aren't familiar, yeah, from the past, Pumping Iron with Arnold, and then they actually did, was it total rebuild? Yeah, so it was two words, right? There was two names, the comeback and total rebuild, right? Yeah, yeah, it's different, but the same. I think Pumping Iron is actually free, available on YouTube, premium or whatever at the moment. Anyway, they do this, and then the, I guess you would say the progeny of that production company

decided to come back and show the new generation of motorbolters and the key rivalry in this. It's yourself and Kygrins. So take me through before it happens, what are you told about it, what's the experience and what happens after? It was pretty much exactly what you just said. It's like, we already know Pump and Iron,

we're pretty much doing this for the new era. Phil, you're the champion, you're the role is the champion. You're defending for the first time. That's pretty much it. We're gonna follow you around. They literally parked an RV outside of my house for a week. And they were in my house at the gym, driving with me, doing everything.

A lot of hours of content, obviously, that still hasn't been published. You know, maybe they'd come out with a director's cut later on of me screwing around in the jam, telling jokes, talking shit, different things. I loved it because I also looked at it as an opportunity to maybe step outside of bodybuilding

and go into Hollywood, kind of like what Arnold did. prematurely, because Arnold did that film toward the end where I'm at the beginning. But I was like, hey, if they pull you away, you'd still be young enough to come back, right? So I go into the show knowing that I have to win, so I did that.

And then obviously when it came out, it was good. I mean, I remember seeing the two movie premieres in LA and New York, and I was like, man, this is dope. This is exciting. And I'm looking good right now, so I know I'm gonna win. And I remember my coach two movie premieres in LA in New York and I was like, man, this is dope. This is exciting. And I'm looking good right now. So I know I'm gonna win. And I remember my coach, Honey Rambo, pulls me to the side and goes, this isn't good.

I go, what are you talking about? He goes, no, it's a good film. But I think people are gonna look at you as the villain. The way they, they made it seem like you had everything and I know you're a brain. You worked for everything and they made it seem like you just, you're driving the Bentley, you got the house, you got two houses, you got the, you know what I mean?

I mean while Kyle's living in this, like what's that called? We're just completely bullshit. Like okay, you have this house, but like, I can't even speak on another man's income, but like, you just do, you know, I'm a very logical person. I'm like, the fans all they have to do is say, well, this guy won the Arnold Classic a couple of times.

Man, this guy's not pro. He's got a weed urge contract. He's got a muscle mass contract. You think he, I know it, New York prices are expensive, but come on. You know what I mean? 300 square foot apart. Right.

I'm like, well, maybe that's just, he keeps that as a studio and maybe has another place, which I think we both know that that was probably the case. But they're, oh Phil, you have to realize, they didn't tell you that this is a docu drama. All right. So now just like I said, when it came out, they had a viewing after the Olympia,

after I just won my third title. Could you imagine I go in there and people actually like talking shit? So I stand up, you know up with the microphone on my hand, I go, hey, how many of you guys liked it? And somebody were like, yeah, and then I was like, you guys thought I was an asshole. People were like, yeah, I'm like, whoa,

like, for me, I was at that point, I was like, why? Huh. And then I just accepted it. I was like, okay, I'm not here to change people's opinions of me, man. Like, you know, that takes too much time, energy. You know, that's when social media really started, you know, start formulating and stuff going to 2014. I'm like, just let your proof be how you win, bro, that just win. But now you got to train really freaking angry. And if they want that motherfucker, I'm going to give it to them. You want a villain? I'll give you a villain because I can take it. Every hero became a villain in someone's eyes, you know, Hoke Hogan, the rock, like they all

became the heel at some point. But I was like, yeah, but you know what it was? Remember the movie was a Batman begins or whatever and he became like dark night, whatever. And what did he say? When it was like at the end of the movie and it was like after Harvey Dent got you know messed up and they said, well, why did he make it look like it was him? And Commissioner Gordon tells the kid because he can take it. I was like, Phil, you're the only because he can take it. I was like Phil, you're the only dude that can take it. All these guys can't take it. They're all insecure. They're all like, if the lights were shining on them and them being misunderstood and having everyone's a ping-a's

be spread on them, they couldn't handle it. Only the best Phil, only the best can handle it. Only the best can handle the scrutiny. You're the gonna be the greatest because now they're looking at you with a harsher lens. It is not 10 times, 25 times, 50 times, it's 250 times magnification.

Only problem is that sucks is that now I'm being judged that way, like 250 times magnification. Like if you're back in school with the teachers having a career. So now I'm like, okay, that's the shitty part, but just embrace it. Just use it. So I created the shirts. I made the merge, made a bunch of money off of it, and played that part. And that was like my alter ego.

It was like, so you guys want the dream color now. And that's when I started being able to, in my opinion, make people afraid. And I loved it because, I said, you smile too, you know, yeah, because we all have a dark side. And it was about me having that control aggression in the gym and even with fans. I mean, I was never rude with fans. You know, I'm saying, like, I meet with them.

I did the Make a Wish foundation stuff. I did the autism awareness events and all those things. Now, that may be overshadowed because of someone's opinion about Generation Iron. But again, Phil, you have to learn that the people who you aspire to be have the same thing. But 10 times worse.

A politician has an a million times worse, right? An actor has it worse. I know actors that have played some great films and people see him on the street and curse them out. Because they were a body. Right. And imagine. And so I'm like laughing.

And I'm like, these guys don't have that common sense, but that means that that great of an actor. So just use it to your advantage, man. The problem is is like how I can't lie. Like sometimes being the dream killer is so fascinating that it's hard to push them away, tuck them away. So then, you know, like my trainer said, like in an interview what a year ago is talking about like Phil Heso, John Wick,

a bodybuilder, I'm like, don't kill his dog. Just don't kill his dog. Don't talk shit about his wife or something like that. It's like, you know, talk to me about how you reflect on your relationship with Kygreen because people call it the greatest rivalry in bodybuilding and it's then the stakes are raised with generation. And it's the inception of social media.

Right. Talk to me about that relationship with Ky Green. I think it is the greatest robbery. I think it's bigger than Jay and Ronnie's, just because they were friends, we weren't. And I think we wanted to be friends, Ky and I, but I feel like because of we wanted us both wanting something so freaking bad and during the social media era, one camp, the other camp, they're talking so much.

And we can see the chatter that it kind of made it look like, so you don't like me, Chris? Okay, it's like high school, you know what I mean? Like, you talking shit? And then all you do is look at me weird. I'm like, all right, what's up? So I know that Kaya had to play psychological warfare because this is bodybuilding, it's not MMA, it's not boxing, you know, like, it's not even basketball or football, right? It's just a person lifting weights and dieting

and doing heavy amounts of cardio and posing. That is hard to impose your will on someone physically. So you gotta figure out how he can beat me. So for him to start a fight, you know, like in 2014, flipping the hair and all that stuff, I don't blame him. People usually get mad at me for like accepting it,

like in my friend's circle, they're like, man, like, here's cool. It's back. But I said, I expected it. They're like, why'd you expect this? I said, listen, it all started at the damn press conference. But I knew he was going to do something.

I didn't know what I was going to respond by saying the three facts and all this stuff. He'd signed his name. Oh, yeah. Mr. Olympia. Yeah, he started doing it on your face or something? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we have an Olympia poster that comes out every year. So when we get our Olympia credentials,

our Pradeem, all that good stuff, we have to sign a bunch of merchandise. One of it is like a big-ass poster that we give all the VIP holders. So, of course, I'm like, it's front and center, so people are gonna sign like maybe the leg or this and that. This fool took on the face. I'm like, oh, it's like that.

Annie wrote Mr. Olympia. I'm like, okay. How many times did he Annie wrote Mr. Olympia. I'm like, okay. How many times do you do it for like a whole role of them? I'm like, oh, he's trying to send a message. So, you know, basketball mentality comes out right now. It's like, oh, this is, oh, I love it, the disrespect. I love it. Like now I get to make this more intentional.

And he has no idea what I look it. Like now I get to make this more intentional. And he has no idea what I look like. He's then going to try to probably say something at this press conference. Why? Because that's what I would do. Know thyself. Know your opponent. Know how to respond versus react. See, when you don't play through these things,, when you only get fixated on how much food and water do I drink, and yes, I have to do this one day stuff. You need to work on the mind of figuring out all the different permutations that can exist, all the different scenarios that can happen. That way, you know how to handle yourself and anything that comes towards you. So I gave him what he needed at the press conference, and he had nothing

to say after that. And that's when I knew the only thing left was for him to try to do something physical and I handled it well and. Unfortunately that was like the end of that pre-judging. Yeah, they split you apart right. I was done his wolf in between you. No one's walking through him. I mean in a way it was it was it was F that because I'm like. We're not performing now. like, we're not performing now.

And it was a big adrenaline dump as well for he and I both. I know he probably had it, because I've got it. So talk to me, on stage, you've worked toward this thing for ages. Generation I and is out. Yeah, it's already out for the second year. Yeah, so you've got, the rivalry is not only private, it's public. Yep.

You've had him signing his name on your face, literally on posters. You've had him talking shit at the press conference. And then you get on stage and he's got this like predator pony tail that he wips and hits you with. And then, how's something to say?

And then you sort of jostle against each other. And then there's this legendary photo of you finally turning and looking. And it's you guys face to face on the Olympus stage. What's that emotional dump like with all of this pressure and all of this preparation? Come here. It felt like high school when everybody's like fight,

fight, fight, fight. And then you're basically getting into it. And then there, and then it was the fans energy that I felt that got calm because all you can hear is if you if you if you were there you would be able to hear Steve Weinberg's voice get elevated and they turned the music up louder because they wanted I guess we were trying to drown out the crowd noise like like it was cheering it on because they kind of were. And then I realized two big ass dudes oiled up and posing trunks supposed to fight. Nah, you're not paying enough for this. Nah, exactly. Someone's getting the draws pulled out.

You know, something, hey, it ain't happening. That's not the fight that I signed up for. So, let's go ahead and calm this shit down and get back to work. And it's getting in here. But you're right. So I realized right then and there, the fans really messed this up. Because the fans were egging us on for two years now.

Because you gotta think, 2012, there was a moment where Kyanire posing, you know, you do the back shots and I used to always kinda like, that was in 2013. So, 2012, we're doing a back shot. And I looked back, no, I looked like this and I'm kinda like looking at the glutes cause it's kinda like letting the judges know

he ain't got what I got. So I was like, come on man. Oh, you stopped him on the ass? I kinda like touched, like touched his lower back or something like that. So I was like, come on man. Oh, you stopped him on the ass? I kind of like touched, like touches lower back or something like that. So I was like, I was like, I was like,

I was like, and then so then he was, he, there's a picture of him like looking at, he was gonna punch me. Yes, yes. So no one remembers this, right? But, but you know what it did? That was the no flinch with Matt Barnes versus Kobe. Pff.

So I was like, yes, I got him. Now I'm in his head. He wants to like, you know, all right, 2013, Arnold classic Madrid. That's when we're doing this. And he's just pissed. And I'm like, God, I'm going to get back to talking to Phil in one minute, but first I need to tell you about factor. I get asked all the time about how to build and maintain muscle, and the most important thing, the first thing you need to do is ensure you are getting one gram per kilo of body weight in protein every single day. But as you know, if you have ever tried to cook anything ever consistently, or stick to your macros, finding whole food healthy meals, you can have conveniently every single day

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to learn the lessons. Right. What do you know about how Cai felt during this rivalry? Well, you had to feel, I mean, of course, he's going to feel robbed, right? Because he's going to think, well, I look good too. I put in so much effort. I've gone through so many levels, so many levels of that adversity. I deserve this.

And I'm only one person away, one person away, and then once I got him out of my way, I can have everything I've ever wanted. I get to, now every time I see Phil, he's I see success. I see what life is presented him and what he's been able to experience. And I can't have the same thing

without going through him. I gotta go through him. So there's a level of empathy I have, even now, like I realize that. Are you the spoken to him? I mean, yeah, we've, you know, it's very interesting is that we've had So there's a level of empathy I have even now. Like, I realized that. You're the spoken to him, ever. Yeah, we've, you know, it's very interesting is that we've had a few conversations. Kai Green gets credit for me because he was the first athlete in the IPB to call me after

I lost in 2018. And he was the only one. He was the only one that picked up the phone. And we talked at length. And that made me feel, I mean, it wasn't like an emotional, like, I'm gonna cry, it was more like, the person who knows me the most is the one that I battled against the most, right?

And he basically gave me some, so much needed words of like, Phil, they didn't be Phil that I know. They beat an injured one. You're still the best ever. And to hear that, you know, it made me feel good because, well, am I paying, he was right. And he would, he would

know that because he was, he knew what he was going against. And he knows that, man, if, if, imagine the amount of stress feel had to go through and I need to, I need to reach out to him and let him know like everything's cool, man, you're gonna be okay. Like, and he's already, he was, you mind you, 2018. I mean, he was already four years removed, or three years removed, because he did an Arnold Australia, I believe, in 2015. So, he already started that transition away.

And I had yet to decide if that was what I wanted to do. So he was giving me an option on that phone call of saying, Phil, now you're at this point where you don't have to prove yourself to anyone. The judges can do whatever they want. You've solidified yourself, like I respect you and I thought, damn, like thank you. And since then, I mean, we've always had that casual,

I mean, now, granted, during the conversation, there was still FU Phil, and this is not the other, you know, just because we can't, it's like, we can't be like, home art cars and roses and shit. We still got to be like, I respect you, but fuck you, man, you know what I mean? Like, and I'm cool with it. I saw Kai last year at the Jim Shark event

here in California, and we both were just like, there's just that vibe. And we both know that it's cool. It's cool to be like, him saying, fuck you, Phil, he's a fucking Kai. You know what I mean? Like it's all, and you know what's funny? That's sweet.

Yeah, it's like a term of endearment. And fans though, like when they see us in the room, like everyone would get quiet. Oh, they think there's still a genuine out of velocity. And there is, and there's more respect than anything because that's what it should be. But it always was. It's just that when you're battling, we respect it the game. When I don't think people have seen I mean outside of a a J and Ronnie situation

Too highly competitive people that were voiceless about what they wanted We were extremely voiceless and if that meant that we ruffled the feathers of the opposite team we didn't give us shit We just didn't we couldn't because we needed their support We needed those fans sometimes to remind us like, yeah, man, like, okay, we got this. I mean, I would see people arguing at the Olympia Expo over who's going to win, and this and that Kai's fans coming up talking trash, and I'm like, I remember posing in the audience, and people would say stuff, and I'm like, what happened to your boy? And then the fans were like, ooh,

and it was like some WWE stuff, correct. And as much as some fans want to make it seem like, for me, I was being extremely negative or whatever. I was playing along just like that. Because at the same time, I mean, we're providing sports entertainment. And if I can have a little fun with the troll online, I'm going to do it, you know, like, and, and, uh, because I should have fun.

I should have fun with this. This is great. Like, it's really cool that I can have certain types of powers that I can literally transform my physique into something that no one that can ever imagine. Well, think about it this way as well, that it's not just the enjoyment of being the sportsman, but it's the enjoyment of being a personality as well, of developing a brand. And if the brand for a short amount of time

is to be the villain, like no one looks back, Floyd Mayweather, like played for a very long time. They did a, he fought on Cinco de Mayo and called it Cinco de Mayweather and came out with the... With the Subrero.

Yep. And just a professional troll before the word troll exists. That's right, right. Do it. And now looking back, people, I mean, some of his most recent fights, maybe his padded his record a little bit, but I think that playing that heel and doing that is,

I don't know, if you have the psychology to be able to absorb it, and stay equanimous, I think that that makes for a much more exciting, it's the greatest rivalry in bodybuilding. Right? It wouldn't have existed had you not have had the rivalry. Right? It's not, it had you not have had the rivalry, right? It wasn't because of the bodies, maybe it was in some regards, but it was because of the personalities. That was what made it happen.

And it drove competitiveness. How much better do you think you became because of Kigreon? Oh, extremely. I mean, every year it was like, you get the CM guest pose on the circuit and you're like, oh shit. Did you respect his physique? Oh, of course. I knew.

I respected it all the time. The problem is that just because I respect it and I have an opinion of it, like, parts of me was like, gosh, all they had to do was be who he was when he did those Arnold classics and the 2012 Olympiad and he might have got me. Maybe that was the difference. Because he got bigger and he was trying to manage too much size. Ky Green is probably probably, if not the most dense bodybuilder we have ever seen. That includes Coleman, like density wise, because you gotta think you're shorter than Coleman,

way as much, nearly as much, and it was like deep, separate, deep cuts, like deep, deep, like very, like slabs of beef, like when he does the pulling the elbows back and you see the Christmas tree, thick, striated, lats. Just very deep. Now he lacked the chest size and the depth with that and the shoulders, so that's why Coleman would get the edge. But, you know, people think of Doreen A.

So like being very dense. If we could see those two up on stage together, I'm telling you right now, Chi Green, like because of the quads, because of the side of the hamstring, the hanging of the, forget it. It was just slabs a beef, dude. Like this is guy, you see him walk around off season and and every three X pants that he's wearing looks like they're leggings. I mean, it just is amazing and he was able to keep this condition throughout the entire bodybuilding season.

So I would always look at him and say, well, you're not focusing on one major thing and that is the peak. And bodybuilding is about the peaking. You can run the 100 meters in the semi-finals and break the world record, but we can you rather do it in Olympic final. I'd rather do an Olympic final. It's more significant then.

And it takes more discipline. It takes more strategy. So that's where I looked at bodybuilding. It's like everything is a strategy. Everything is a process leaning up to two days. That's it. All I gotta do is be ready for two days. And that, you know,

I was able to do that, obviously countless times, but yeah, did he raise my game level up? Absolutely. And I benefit from it. Give me your thoughts on Chris Bumsted. Most popular. No rival. Really good bodybuilder. I saw him when he was coming up at like what 19, 20 years old. Guys over at Team Muscle Tech used to tell me about him because the muscle tech is Canadian company pretty much. And they were saying, oh, this guy's coming up and I said, yeah. And when I, and they're like, what, you don't think? And I go, I'm going to treat him just like they treated me, meaning I see big things and he's done those things.

And like I shared with him after his Olympia win, I said, now it's just you. You've solidified yourself in this category where it's just you. You're running by yourself now. You have no equal. And what do they do? They raise the weight limit up for everybody else. But now he has to realize that what I was saying was true. Because they only change the game when you're dominant.

Happened to Coleman with the challenge round, happened to me when they decided to make the fans a judge at the Olympia table. They actually put that in Flex Magazine, by Jim Mang in himself. So, and I realized, they do this to make it more entertaining. It needs to remain competitive and if someone is making it too uncompetitive. Right. So yeah, you're telling me that there was an opportunity to tell Chris maybe this

in January. Did you tell all the athletes at the same time? Maybe, maybe not, right? Because there are certain athletes that are going against them right now that are You know much bigger in their offseason. So it makes you question Did they already know or did someone in their camp kind of hear something because everybody in this Industry can't hold water. So well, I think or Chris bumps that is that he has a he has a great reach great opportunity, great following, great responsibility, and an incredible amount of responsibility right now. Why? Oh man, because look at his demographic, it's like what, 30 and under, it's not 30 and over,

30 and under, probably 25 and under. So your legacy is going to be predicated how you become a leader for these younger people. See, I can still inspire these people, but they're going to maybe reach towards someone that is around the same age. So that's why there's a responsibility because he's not perfect, he's still learning, he's still young. He's very public about his failings, his insufficiency, his fears.

Did I sat down with him for two and a half hours, a few months ago in Florida? I genuinely think he might be the most likeable person I've ever met in my life. He is so beyond the real deal. It's insane. And if there was somebody to be this particular micro-generations fitness leader,

people talk about Rogan the same way, especially people that have been friends for a long time. And they say stuff like you do realize how rare it is to have a benevolent king. The guy that's at the top of this particular industry is one who is more concerned with raising other people up than raising himself up. And is happy to just spread spoils all the time. The timing with Chris

is impeccable. I think so too. I think that's what helps too because I would say a J Cutler with social media back when he started would be just as popular if not maybe more. But it's all timing too. And I feel like Chris has done an incredible job at being a champion, being a person of transparency and vulnerability to allowing people to see, like you said, the ins and outs, the flaws, the shortcomings.

From the bodybuilding eye, what are you most impressed by with regards to Chris' physique, when he steps out to do the classic? When he when he decides to do what? No, when he does because he's in classic. Yeah, that's a moment, right? Yeah, right. What are you most impressed by when he steps out on stage? His confidence This past year I felt like it was his confidence because he knew that He in order to set yourself apart from other people,

you had to know who you are, right? So he knew who he was. He was like, I gotta go out there and give them a show now. Now he's looking in the camera. Now he's like, you know, now he's putting on a performance with his posing even in pre-judging. When you get a chance, watch how he walks out now compared to when he first started walking out.

It starts to realize he is that Jedi, not a master yet, but he's Jedi, you know what I mean? And he's got the look, he's got the stare now. Now he's playing with the crowd and that's a performer. See, a lot of people in the general public don't realize that we're performers of art, of body art. Now he's willing to show it. And that's what's very impressive. Now I can actually pay attention.

Before I would just say, oh yeah, you know, he's champion this net. Especially I was like, very nice. Would you, you know, given a second life, would you have ever enjoyed having a crack at classic, rather than open, would you have been interested to see what you could have done

had you have had different kinds of criteria? Put it like this, naturally I wouldn't have been able to do it. Like without PEDs, I wouldn't have been able to do classic. Of course. So what's the point? I would have been at a disadvantage going against guys that are enhanced doing classic. But I could tell you, I mean, the look that I had, like when I won the New York Pro at 208 and a half, that I guess that's classic.

That might have put me in the criteria because I'm 5'9". It wouldn't have been challenging. If you give me the opportunity to go back in time and say, okay, it's 2005, Mr. USA's, you turn pro as an open class bodybuilder, okay, it's 2005, Mr. USA's, you term pro as an open class bodybuilder, but yet you're still undersized, you're going to compete around 2.10, but you can have an opportunity to squeeze down and do classic, would you do it? Absolutely not. Absolutely not.

Because to me, Mr. Olympia is the one that can take on all challengers. So the Sandow trophy exemplifies that. So I need the biggest challenge I can have. And knowing that it's a process, it's a process. I can still get these little wins out the Sean Ray, the New York Pro, the Iron Man. But these are, these are little wins. And I can say that I've slayed dragons. David versus Goliath type of stuff.

I mean, think about the guys that I'd be in their prime. I went against a lot of guys that are different shapes and sizes, right? Classic would not allow that for me. It would only be him. Yeah, understood. Yeah. One of the things that came up in the conversation with Chris,

your sport is psychologically, homonally, physically, pharmacologically, very taxing. And I asked him about any concerns that he had around longevity. Were there any points in your career where you were forced to make a choice between, well, if I keep pushing like this, I'm concerned about what this is going to do for my health over the long term and talk me through that mindset when you love this. I love this conversation because I took less than everybody and I can point it out.

I have blood work from the very beginning. How deep can you go into that? Okay, so I wanted to miss USA taking 500 milligrams of testosterone with a shot of deco week. I didn't have any money, but I whipped everybody's ass. First crack at it and quoted as one of the greatest mystery USA's of all time. Didn't take growth hormone until my second Arnold classic. How deep are we in the? I turned pro-105. We're talking about 2008. I had already won two pro shows and now I decided to take growth hormone for the first time. And you're still running 500 milligrams of tests. No, I was probably doing like 750. Very minimal stuff because here's my thought process with this. You watch Fast and the Furious. You know this good old saying too soon, Junior?

That plays in bodybuilding. The guy that hits the nitrous too fast, in the race loses every time. Why? Because that car was what Little Honda Civic with a little turbo kit and some bullshit, handmade, handcrafted Ferraris will always beat that shit. And if you put a little bit of a mod on that thing, you can't catch them. So you're saying that I rather would build okay better analogy.

You go super saying and I can beat you in my base form. The internet is happy to jump in dragging both so let me let me go ahead and beat you in the base form. Let me work on the base form. It's the, so it seems like you're- Then I can't rely on this stuff. Because here with farm ecology and stuff, are you really getting in for a valuable source? Are you getting in from Bayer? Are you getting in from sharing?

Are you getting in from these companies? You don't know, you don't work there. You really want to tax your body. You really want to take something that you really don't know? That could really hurt you. And now you're becoming a drug addict, buying drugs from someone at a gym. You're buying it from drug dealers. I know drug dealers.

I grew up around drug dealers. I know the mentality. I stayed away from that shit because I was like, you know what? Let me just go ahead and slowly roll myself into this because if I want to have longevity after my career, it would be nice to show that my blood work can prove it. Would you ever release that? My blood work?

For money. I'm not just going to offer it up to somebody, but that's HIPAA, that's a lot of, maybe on my own podcast someday. I can walk you through why. Okay, so I did the Arnold Classic in 2007. I had one of the first two pro shows in 2006, Sean Rafe and New York Pro. Realized I need more time off to do the Olympia.

I was gonna be undersized. It made no sense to get my ass beat by a bunch of guys that are seasoned veterans. Did the 07 Arnold place fifth first time ever losing, right? Okay, let me take more time off. Decided to have a deeper off season. Understand the what is the difference between me and everybody else? Well, it was just tying time in the gym time in the gym time in the gym Not drugs What is drugs gonna do is not gonna shrink time you need time in the gym

Okay, so it's drugs So I pound everything and then what you know my trainer said well, I can get you to Mr. Olympian two, three years, but we don't know what was going to happen after that. So think about that mentality that we see today, everybody's pounding the stuff and here's the funny part. The muscle, the muscle tissue is damaged. The skin texture is completely off. Look, man, you see, see the skin texture?

You see that with anybody else? Probably not. I'm not even running shit, right? You know what I'm saying? Like, how do you build that? You build it with the base form. You know how to come off appropriately. You know how to do something?

Like what Arnold was saying back in the day. We knew how to do stuff during. It's not an all year thing because now you become a drug addict. You know what I mean? Drug addicts are in bodybuilding? A tremendous amount, because they're chasing something, but they're not winning something.

So you gotta be a fucking idiot to go ahead and take all these drugs, right? Not win, put yourself in not only financial debt, physical debt. It seems to a lot of people, especially looking at your era, mm-hmm, unbelievable that you wouldn't have just been taking everything under the sun. But why should I, when I was able to win my first

couple of amateur shows clean, and then just add a little bit, when I always heard of a finishing touch, that was what was always talked about. And then I also saw guys in Colorado that were running a lot, not winning. Mike, well, okay, so you run too much stuff. You know what happens?

You develop side effects, right? So, well, if everybody's doing it, nah, man, why don't you just be different? Cause maybe I don't wanna do this. Maybe I don't wanna have to take drugs like this. Maybe I'm afraid of needles. Maybe I'm afraid of needles. Maybe I'm afraid of what the side effects do you have? Do you own anabolic 2000 book?

Do you own these different e-books that tell you the bad, the ugly with it? I studied all this shit. So the last thing I ever, and you know what's funny? The real truth is that what if they started drug testing severely, severely? I have no base form, I have no base form physically and also emotionally.

Take all the drugs away, it's like taking the Instagram away from an influencer, they lose their shit. What was the maximum that you ever got to in terms of? It's first test? Yeah. 1300. I tried 15 and then I was like starting to get watery.

And then I remember, no, I did 15. So I was at 13 and I was like, let's do 15. And then like another dose later, you know, like another week goes by and I was like, all right, 17 and five or whatever. I think, because it was like all sustenance and shit like that. I just got more watery. It was just stupid. So then the same thing with Gorthramone.

Like, okay, so medical journals will state that if you take too much of this stuff, right? Now you're actually gonna inhibit what? More insulin problems, you know? Cause I never run an insulin, never ran in my entire life, never. Wow. Never.

Give me some money I'll put on a freaking show. Like, hand on Bibles, like light detector test, but you're gonna pay me that million Because I'm gonna take all your damn money I'm gonna take it all so anybody out there want to challenge just put the money up and I'll do it on national television I don't give it down, but you gonna pay me though Cuz you're not gonna put me through this bullshit and and me not get something out of it. So there's that part But um, you know, I messed around with Tran and stuff like that, but even that, I realized how harsh that is.

That's a stupid. It literally says, like, liver kidney damage and all this stuff. I was like, oh, that's not happening. And you know what's funny for me? What's funny for me is that I tried it enough to realize that I have hyperalactin levels when I take it. So, oh, so you have hyperalactin. Now you take Dosta next.

Why am I doing this? I'm adding all these things in. Why don't I just focus on the training and the modalities that I'm talking about? Like I'm the one that did the infrared sonas. I'm the one that bought the Fattara 320. I'm the one that did, you know, shit, neuromuscular massage.

I'm the one that's doing, you know, DRX 9000, you know, with the decompression of the spine and stuff like that. Well, taking acupuncture, while doing stem, while doing oxygen all while doing oxygen, all the same time, living in Denver, Colorado. I'm not dude. You can't name another fucking athlete.

All you see is cold plunges and dry and evenly and scraping, which is stupid as hell because you see how they scraping and they scraping people doing a grass and where they're blood blisters and stuff. That's not gonna yield any growth. That's just being dumb. So, look, you know, my drug use was very minimal because I understood that there was life afterwards.

I had some favorite, you know, PEDs and stuff like that, like, you know, like, whinny, stuff like that in growth, but, I mean, I just made sure that I took enough to get the job done. Because again, if they were ever going to start testing for shit, I needed to be ready to just be like, I don't need this. I have a foundation. I got a foundation.

And you look at me now, people say, oh man, you look younger, you look this. Guess what? Because I treated my body right. You got these other guys. And I also didn't have social media. Here's the thing, when you don't have magazines, you got social media.

A professional bodybuilder right now is actually having to decide if they're an influencer or a bodybuilder. You see what I'm saying? An influencer can get on some cycles and stuff, almost look like a pro, which they try to do. They take all the best angles in the lighting and all the stuff, some Photoshop, the shit, they sell courses,

they sell products and stuff. And they do it for a short period of time, right? But they can create like a thousand episodes within six months. And then they can kind of just not do events because you see something, you don't see a lot of events with them at, because, and they can just dress normally

because they're not a pro or whatever, right? Pro bodybuilders now feel like they have to compete with them. And they share the same sponsors. So unfortunately, the owners of these companies just focus on certain levels of engagement. Now for a bigger person, that weighs over 240 to 270 to 200. Now how many 300 pound bodybuilders do we have compared to Ronnie's era? A ton more and they don't outmass Ronnie with quality muscle. Why?

Because they're taking drugs more than they're actually doing the work. They're not allowing the body to catch up. So you think that one of the problems with the current generation is an over-reliance on the disease? Bro, you see it on TikTok, you see it on YouTube. What are we talking about mostly? Mostly on the... Nadiya No. I'm sorry? Nati or not, that's like the same, right?

That's the meme at the moment. And none of them are. Show me what you look like in high school. Show me that you have the actual integrity that you can do this for a long period of time. Majority of these people are showing their sensationalizing drugs use. They're no different than a drug addict.

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It was something that he tried. He's got autoimmune disorders. Yeah, so he definitely can't be doing that. No, and he was like, it's just way too toxic. But he conceded that it got him to a place during some particular competition that he would struggle to get back to it. Now he's got my size and he's got blah, blah, blah.

But there was certain elements that it facilitated in his performance. Oh, like as far as like physical hardness or the muscle conditioning and stuff like that. I can understand, I can understand that. For you, you said that insulin is something that you didn't want to ever touch. No.

Trent would be something else. Was there anything else that was completely off the table for you, or why would them or anything else as well? Well, I felt like Trent usage, first of all, again, we're not in the old school era where you're getting like real parable and stuff, so you don't really know. So and then look at the color of it. Looks pretty gnarly man, we are injected something. What's the color of it?

It looks like orange. Like you really want to put something that talks to your body like, I don't know man. And then people talk about like, okay, well it has to have a filtration rate of session sessions with benzoyl alcohol and therefore you're gonna have the trend cough and blah, blah, blah. Man, why am I even wanting to go through this shit?

How many times did I sit there coughing my lungs out? Because of this damn drug. It's like, is this really necessary? Can I just do something else? And why not insulin? Why do I need it? I'm already winning. I'm already winning.

Why do people do it? Let me ask you, why do you think people do it? Because they want to be bigger and leaner. It makes people leaner. I think they suffer from the fact that they want roundness. They want fullness in the muscles. Because it's the most antibiotic property in the body, right? So they figure like, oh, if I take this, I look bigger and I, you know, I think

I have some of the most well-rounded muscle we've ever seen. Why do I need more? I just need more separation. I need more striations. I need more. I mean, that's what I need. But that could, for instance, let's say that it was more dryness that you were going for. It was more separation in the muscles that you were going for. That could have encouraged you to run a shit ton of something else, a shit ton of growth hormone, a shit ton of wind straw, a shit ton of something. If you do that, you're only going to get, now all right, so you could use wind straw for instance,

you're gonna do that, and now you got water-based drugs mixed in with oil-based drugs, you're gonna have pockets, bro. Like it's, you're gonna run out of spaces here. If you notice that my shoulders, like even recently, they are more striated than majority of people that compete, why is that? Because they're pinning all this other shit in there.

So there's just sight inflammation. Of course. And the judges don't even know any better right now. They just look at it like, well, it looks round and this and that, how do they know? They're going from old school, like how it's supposed to look and... Who has striated shoulders?

Damn, right? Damn, they only got this part. They don't even have straight at rear delts. Only for the day of the show. Now some of them do. Don't get me wrong. Like some of them do. But you know, you start seeing all of this, you know. I mean, you give your dog insulin enough they're going to develop scar tissue.

You know what I'm saying? So like, these guys have to be very worried, in my opinion, that with all the abundance of these new drugs that are available and peptides and stuff like that, you gotta be very careful. And you have to ask a question, how much blood work is being talked about? These guys aren't talking about,

they'll talk about a little bit, oh yeah, my doctor said, no, they didn't. What doctor are you really dealing with? Have you done a Boston health scan? I have, you know what I'm saying? Do you actually know what parasites you have? I have, I've done a GI map and stuff like that. This is what we're talking about.

If you were able to even do a certain amount of breath work, you would actually get more oxygen into the body, which wouldn't make you bigger, you know? Did your holistic, more holistic approach to this stuff, I think would surprise an awful lot of people, an awful lot of people. Yeah, because they assume, I just took a bunch of drugs and this and that,

you know, because that's simple. Because everybody could do that. It's like, no, man, in order to get seven Mr. Olympia's amongst these guys, you got to do something they ain't doing. And what they're thinking you're doing is drug related. I'm thinking, well, nah, man, like for three months after the Olympic,

I go vegan, right? Or something like that. I'm just gonna try it. I'm just gonna try it. I'm gonna come off on all supplements. People will say, oh, Phil's not that big in the off season this and that. It's like, yeah, man, I'm letting my body heal.

The war's over for now. Christ does the same. Christ has a, obviously, he doesn't need to hold quite as much. I also learn from the, from guys like myself and Jay and other people probably too. I've realized I'm like, you want to do this for a long time. You got to treat your body right. And he's being smart with the modalities that he has and the money that he's earned,

getting the stem cells and doing other stuff. I mean, it's smart. I didn't have that shit. That was one thing I found out I had that. But I was always looking and I still do to the state. I think what we're seeing again, you know, like drug addiction, how much you take in. And then I have to ask them like, man, you look like that. And that's what you're taking. That means you need more time in the gym,

just training and diet and short gratification, short term. What do you think? It's not good. What do you think the most sort of egregious use is at the moment, what would you guess that? I hear a lot of kids talk about trend like nonstop. That's all I hear. And I'm like, why would you want to talk about

the most dangerous drug around? I mean, I get it. Like, you want to run a little bit of testosterone or something like that. But, man, these are also kids. Your natural testosterone is already through the roof. And the problem is imagine that. Imagine that. All right.

So you got kids that are 18, even 17, on up to their mid to late 20s. Buying, gotten those what, bathtub, drugs or what, you know, they get an old messco stuff with the, uh, Barrow, perils and got those on, you know, the little rabbit on there. I'm a kangaroo. All for the, oh, yeah, man, that trend, bro, like, you know, dumb you sound, he's not like a fucking clown And you're gonna be funny when you're in your 40s. If you make it, you know what I'm saying? I've got some, you know, right, prominent deaths.

Yeah, or people that couldn't continue to compete because these things, and I refuse to, you know, co-sign this, I'm even the guy that realizes that diuretic use is a big deal. How so? Because man, that's hard, that's blood pressure meds, man. Like what are you doing? So you're trying to get, you know, more water out, right?

If you abuse that, you know it can happen to you, right? I mean, you can die, right? Is that something that you were very conscious of? Yeah, because I know how to read. What does this do? Do I really need it? Why do I still have water on my body? Because you have more fat on your body, Phil.

Why don't you just do more cardio, man? Why don't you just over cardio yourself? Over-training yourself so you don't have to do that. You know why my muscles popped in with round and this and that and the other? It's not because I fucking insulin, people thought like, ah, you dummies, I train a certain way.

I wasn't trying to max on bench and squat and this now is going for more volume, using what I have, okay? I just needed more density over time. I already had the round this when I was playing basketball in high school in college. I already have this. Use what I already had the round this when I was playing basketball in high school in college. I already have this. Use when I already got.

I'm not afraid to die it. Oh, you need to get the water out. Oh man, this prep hurts. You know, I can't drink in the water. All right. Well, you know, I only had two water breaks in a college practice. You know what I'm saying? Like at the beginning and in the middle. Right when you walk in, you may take a sip of water.

You take some while you're shooting for those after you ran, we used to run this, do this workout called three sixteenths. So before that, you know, you do all your drills and then you have like a mini game, five on five, mini game, 20 minutes running clock, going over, you know, game plan and this and that and the other, but you're going hard, right? But it's 20 minutes running clock going over, you know, game plan this and that and the other but you're going hard, right? But it's 20 minutes running clock. So you got to you got to go hard game game speed Playing 20 minutes running clock game speed is hard and Then after that you got to run three 16 so three 16s is sideline to sideline 16 times in the end in the end

16 touches in one minute with one minute rest. And then you do it again, one minute, one minute, and then at three, 16s in six minutes. And then you go through free throws, and if you don't make over 70%, you gotta get online. Online? Online, you gotta run more. Now you just go down and, you know, not side to side,

right? I know what it feels like to be parched. So like when it was time to cut water, I'm like, it sucks, but the only thing that sucks was having to eat while being parched, you know, being thirsty. Oh, interesting. But I didn't have all that like, oh, you know, I can't think, I can't this. I'm like, I've already been prepped all that. But I didn't have all that like, oh, you know, I can't think. I can't this. I'm like, I've already been prepped for this. Now I'm already having more confidence knowing everyone else is suffering. Everyone else is suffering.

I'm suffering, but I know what it is. Talk to me. You've alluded that to differences or uniqueness in your training style. What was it that you, what were the principles that you attribute your success to from a training standpoint? Oh, no one who I am, and all goes back to no one who you are. I'm not a guy that was bench pressin' 500 pounds in college. You know what I'm sayin'?

I wasn't that dude, I was strong, but I wasn't one of those guys. So you gotta know who you are. Like for me, never bench press over five plays. I did five plays before, and that was a lot. For what's that? 4.95, so like, all right, so let's just say 500 pounds, you know. I think that's good enough for one rep max.

There's guys that can rep that out, but I'm like, but I beat them. So it's not necessary. What's the degree of difficulty to, where's the point of no return meaning, I'm getting diminishing returns, potentially getting injured on a back squat, you know, leg press.

I had to know what those numbers were. But as you get stronger, your 70%, 80%, 85% 1 RM for, you know, like hypertrophy range reps. That still continues to go up, right? Because you are getting stronger over time. So presumably, like, you're still having to ramp that up. Yeah, but I also train by myself. So you want to go put 700 pounds on your back by yourself? Be my guess, or you could put three plates or four plates and wrap it out 20 times.

My leg workout, let's say for 2012 and 2013 Olympia, five sets, 20 reps, 315 squats, with two minutes resting period. Take that from the top again. So you do leg ascension for pre-exhaustion? Yep, just do like three work and sets for 20 or whatever you wanna do. Then you go into back squats.

You know, you warm up with the 135, the 225, and then you throw three plates on, three 15 on, you know, three on the side. You do that 20 reps. Take two minutes and do it again. And do that for five reps. Five rounds. Five rounds of that.

Sorry, yeah, five sets of that. And you probably only a 12 minute workout. And then you keep going. Now you're still doing your vertical leg press, your angle leg press, you're walking lunges. Now we go in the hamstrings. Okay. So you're doing the calves and now you're going to do that three days later. And you're doing that while you're still doing cardio for the Olympia on a step mill, you're still doing that squeezing your glutes every repetition, not actually leaning over the fucking equipment like everybody else because they're a pussy.

You're actually standing up straight. And if you are holding it, it's just something you don't fall. And you're stepping and you're squeezing and you're building your legs while you're doing it. And you're doing it for 40 to 45 minutes. Once, if not twice a day. That's how I got this right at glutes. That's why you saw all the cores running down my hamstrings

that no one else has. You know what I'm saying? So I made it difficult for a reason because I knew if I could train by myself doing that, I'm gonna be better than everybody else, but mind you, yeah, you know, when I, if I did have a spot, I still wouldn't say, hey man, let's go do five plates, six plates.

You know, I've done that and it's like, let's, if I'm gonna go more than four plates on the back squat and I feel really strong, instead of putting another fifth one, how about I just do front squats with four plates? Let's just do that. Change the angle up. Yeah, just change the angle up

because now we're running into a point where my body's gonna be conditioned to lift all this crazy ass weight and I may not be getting the muscular activation that is necessary to proliferate the growth and the separation that I need so then I can compete. Because you can see how the muscles grow. Like, you know, if you said, if not that I did, but I had the mind muscle connection, I know when things are firing.

I have enough levels of body fat to see things moving. If I don't see things moving, I got a few things to register. The data. Maybe there's a compression in the disk so let's make sure that I'm getting the car practice, the acupuncture in the decompression going, right? Because if some of this compress is hitting the nerve and I'm not getting the fire in it. You can't power it.

So, I'm always paying attention to all these things. It seems to me that you're talking about volume here in a way that I think a lot of people wouldn't. No, wouldn't typically have thought of. Anything over 14 is cardio, isn't mean, but. I never heard that, so that's what they say. Anything of a 14-year cardio, it's like a bro meme. So these bros have never one of fucking sand down,

and that's the problem. So they're doing this shit because they are young and they haven't tried anything long enough. They're expecting such a vast amount of muscle or weight gain, and then they're like, well, no, you need to do it this way. It's like, keep doing it that way. expecting such a vast amount of muscle or weight gain and then they're like, well, no, you need to do it this way, it's like, keep doing it that way. And let's see what you look like. But first of all, this, analyze your goal.

What is the goal? When I set it goal to compete and be somebody, let's see what you work out at. Let's see how this works. Let's really quantify these things. So you're playing with reps, rest, and intensity. Yeah, I want intensity here. I want to make sure that I can do it, right?

Am I the one saying like, oh yeah, 25 pound dumbbells is gonna build you 23 inch arms now. What I'm saying is that you need to definitely produce enough strength to grow those big muscles, but at some given point in time, is it necessary to curl a hundred pound dumbbell to get those arms? No, I proved it.

I also proved to grow a back. If you see my back from the amateur ranks through the first years as a pro to the end, one of the best backs ever, right? I did that with no debt lifts. Show me a video of me doing debt lifts. Why? Because I wanted to prove that I could do it without it.

I'm a why not, what were you doing instead of debt lifts? What was your issue with that? Ben, because, you know, when I was getting ready for the USA's back in 2005, I, you know, I kind of had an accident. I was doing like 625 conventional, not sumo, conventional, and I felt something in my neck, and I was like, that's fucking stupid.

So sometimes you get in the tap on the shoulder by an angel that's saying, hey, I covered your ass this time. Next time, that pop may be something. So I was like, all right. This is me talking to a honey round by my chin. Honey, what do you think I should be doing? He's like, all right, if you're gonna do deadlifts,

just doing with dumbbells or like do it like a rack pull or something like that. So have I done rack pulls, yeah. Because rack pulls. Because rack pulls. Yeah, because rack pulls, you know what I can do? As I'm coming up, I can rotate right here and I'm now squeezing.

If you just take, if you keep your chest up right here and you're like at that 90 degrees and you kind of pull back, you're filling your lats. That's all I have to replicate. For me to have to go all the way down and do it. For what? I get it. I'm not saying that people can do it that way. I'm saying for me, this way worked. So from 2005, you basically didn't deadlift for the rest of your bodybuilding. Yeah, no, from that point in time, especially during a prep. Like I said, if it was not in one of my DVDs, it probably never happened. Okay. Yeah.

Let's say that for the rest of time, you only had 10 exercises to hold onto and grow as much muscle as you could. What would you choose? And why? Inclined presses. No question about it. Dumbbell? Dumbbell more likely because, you know, it's just, you can do a lot with the dumbbells

over the barbell, right? I always want that shelf up here. It looks great in t-shirts and yeah, you know if you're hitting a side shot You want the upper-peck development to exist. It does something about the angle that's so comfortable as well Yeah, it feels so not it feels right. Yeah, it feels right. Yeah, you don't feel as much in danger In my opinion. Yeah, even when you're doing flies, you don't feel as much in danger. Am I opinion? Yeah, I mean, when you're doing flies, you know, like you can do that. It just feels so good, you know. So that would be one of them. Sci-laterals for sure. Dumbbell lateral raise.

Uh-huh. Standing seated. Standing for sure. And where do you, what were your cues on this? I knew you were going to say this. Yeah, from the side. And you went to the side, do you out in front a little bit here? No, I'm right here. What are you thinking? To the side.

Yep, to the side. Are you leading with elbows, leading with arms? More just, I guess that would just be with arms, right? Yep, yep. So, because sometimes you see people almost flaring up with dumbbells down. As you did that, your traps moved. Yep. So, I don't need that.

Yep. I don't want that. Lower trap. Now, that's gonna, uh-uh. I just need to get it. If I'm working this, I understand it's a secondary muscle, but I don't need to be isolating. Because you end up doing this.

You see guys like to come down and they're doing this. You see it. Why is that moving? Can I deactivate it? Sure. Right here. Okay. Cool.

Let's do that. Okay. One arm preachers One arm preacher curls dumbbells again. It could be on a machine or dumbbells, you know, but but since we're gonna You know, only have some dumbbells on a deserted island. We're gonna do that But you can use whatever you want. Yeah, so you got the best gym in history But you're gonna need a a preacher curl. Okay.

And why single? Because I can concentrate more on one arm than two. I can also isolate and understand why is one arm stronger than the other. And am I performing the rep the same on either arm? Now if I'm in a fixed position, I can't tell. So I need to see. I need to feel. And I need to physically see this. So I need to. Are I need to feel, and I need to physically see this.

So I need to... Are you supernating on that or are you gonna see? Oh yeah, I'm gonna do that. But I also gotta recognize, like, am I having any, you know, bicep tendon stuff and shit like that? And which I actually have right now, like damn, like okay. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know.

Okay, that's three. So that's three hack squats for sure. For sure, why? Oh my gosh, it just feels incredibly strong to be in that position. I love it. It's yeah, I did a lot of damage on that machine. What are your cues when doing HACSQOT? Well, you know, the platform. I can go wide, I can go at the top, I can go at the bottom, I can go narrow. You know, I need to go a little bit more now.

I'll give you, you can have that, that can be all part of full. Yeah, exactly. But it's all the same as the system. Yeah, so. You're playing the system, okay, so that's full. Okay, this is fun. You're playing the system. Okay, so that's full.

Okay. This is fun. Rear delts, but face pulls with the rope. Okay. I love that. I'd around about eye height. Yeah, right here. Yep.

Since we're using that rope, try to set up extensions. Overhead. Yep. Um, you know, since we're using that rope, you know, try to set up extensions overhead. Down. Okay. Yep. So that's what six six. Okay. Four more. You gotta throw another chest moving in there. So, um, I mean, we did the incline dumbbell press. We got to have an incline dumbbell fly. Um, why put both of those in? What are you getting out of the fly? You're not getting out getting a good stretch. And I'm able to contract, you know, differently as well working that same plane. Um, read doubts.

What about back? We got to throw some back in there. So underhand bar bill, uh, uh, rose, underhand bent over, bent over rose throw some back in there. So underhand, barbell, rows, underhand. Bend over. Bend over rows, underhand. Yep. What's your reason for going underhand rather than overhand? Because I've noticed that overhand, I'm getting more of,

initially you're going to fill it more in your forms right here. Yep. And I'm only going to get so much and I feel like it's more like, I'm going to, there's more margin for error, I believe. Whereas if you're coming here, I don't feel it as much. And it's simulating what I would do on stage, pulling the elbows back. So would you do, I guess a part of that as well

is restricting the injury risk from being bent over so much, like underhand you're always gonna be a little weaker. So would you do that from a rack, rather than from the floor? Well, I've done that from the floor. Yeah, I've done that from the floor. Right. Yeah, I've done that from the floor. A lot of actually loads being at that angle below a back, but it's much less than a

deadlift, I suppose. Yeah, but then sometimes you can go to like a squat rack and then it'll have like the little bars there. So you get safety bars, so you just pull it off of that. Cool. Okay, I think you've got two left. So I got two left. Ooh, boy.

What have we got? Let's recap. So we've got the incline. boy. What have we got? Let's recap. So we've got the incline. You got incline dumbbell incline fly. You have lateral raises. Yeah, you have hack squats. Yep. You have single arm single arm preacher push downs, face post face pulls. And then I'm over underhand. You know what? I'm going to go with pull ups,

neutral underhand overhand, overhand wide, and I guess last one would be, another legs, step mill. You could use the step mills, the 10th exercise. And did you, because I can carve out the legs, I can, I can do glutes with that. Did you ever do that weighted?

Yeah, actually I did. I wore a weight vest for, what show was that? It was early in my career. I wore like weight vest and I wear like ankle weights and I did something that no one else ever did. I was using EastM units while I was doing cardio. Like a compacts?

Yeah, I used to compacts. I was sponsored by them for a while. So I was doing compacts on step-mill. Did anyone the things that electric stem training is not like put an SP6 or an SP8 on you and turn it up to 25% and try and do a squat and ask what. Yeah, and tell me that it's an absolute agony. That would, the only thing I think now is like, you know, the neuroplasticity

and like also like neurofeedback you get by using one of those machines. I don't, I would love to be able to test that because I think with it doing the work kind of for you, you may lose some of that. So you have to be careful, I think, with overloading it. Yes, because you can push it further than you should.

Because you can push it further than you can really do it. So I know I did that, but I'm an extreme athlete, you know, with that. When it comes to the stepper, very, very popular cardio exercise for money builders, what are people missing? What are they getting wrong when you see other people? They're holding on to the, they're holding, they're hugging the damn thing. You know what?

They're also doing by doing that. They're rounding out their back and you think about doing this. You're, I mean, just me doing this right now, like, that doesn't seem comfortable. I'm not just staying straight. I just slow it down. Maybe, maybe, you know what I'm saying? Maybe not having that five or six because I got to, and you hear that person stomping on the damn things. If they weighed 250 pounds or something like that, you know, their knees would be shot. Their knees would be toast. So you're using control even on stuff. You should, you should, you should, you should,

you should have it at level one, level two and slowly do it. Now it, now the reason why you won't do that, ladies and gentlemen, is because it's boring. But think about how much muscle activation you can have on that with your glutes and quads, with each step actually being purpose driven. So my whole mentality when I would do cardio and I'm giving you all the damn sequest man. Yeah. Put it like this, you gotta gamify your cardio as much as possible.

So if you can have every step count towards something, you could actually sculpt glutes, quads, and isn't that the whole point of doing cardio, or you just want to sweat. You just want to sweat and burn calories. What's the difference between just sweating and having an account? I'm building muscle. Wouldn't it be great if you could do cardio and build muscle at the same time? Yeah, but it feels like I got to slow it down and I got to squeak.

Yeah, you're being more intentional. Just like if you were doing eccentric movements. I'm being more intentional. Just like if you were doing these centric movements, I'm being more intentional. This is body building, man. That's body building. It's not always gonna be as fast as you want it to be. It's not about you anyway. It's about your muscles.

It's about using these machines to make them get the maximum benefit while reducing the most amount of physical strain on your ligaments and joints. It seems like getting your ego out of the way is a big. How they gonna do it when they got a rooting session for them at the gym? They gotta be by themselves. And a lot of people can't have that option. So granted, I had keys to a gym and all this other stuff,

but you know, I was raised as an only child, so I knew who I was long time ago. Yeah, so you get it. That's why we get along, man. I'm like, yeah, you know. I was interested in this. The, you can call it the only child effect, I think. I think every, every only child that I know,

there's not actually that many, has a degree of introspection. Some of them, more frequently have a degree of introspection that is, rare, I think, not always adaptive or useful or enjoyable, and even in me, like sometimes, especially when I was in my teens and 20s, I kind of wish that I could have switched it off. But now it's one of the things that I'm, I enjoy the most. I enjoy my degree of introspection. I enjoy the conversations I have with myself. Yeah.

What have you reflected on about how being an only child impacted your mindset, your approach to all of the things that you've done across your career? I'm my own first responder. No one's going to save you, Phil. You have to be your first, own first responder. No one's gonna save you, Phil. You have to be your first, your own responder. You want something in life, you have to want it more than anybody else. And you have to assume that there's no one else to help you.

So, what are you gonna do about it? You're gonna wait for your cousin or your big brother. You know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, I don't have no big brothers and sisters, right? So, that means you gotta fight your own battles. That means you have to be more calculated. Can't be like the other jackasses, you know, walking home from school, picking a fight with you,

because they got their bigger, yeah, because they got the bigger brother that'll beat your ass if you decide to beat him up, right? So you gotta be smart, right? You gotta be like, all right. Am I, but maybe I am willing to do that that one day, right? Because I'm calculating on how I'm going to do it You got to know

Self love you got to understand the words that you tell yourself mean something Because if there's no one pouring into like a big brother or sister that tells you like Oh, Janelle didn't like you because of this or this is how you talk to her next time or, you know, or John, John, you know, just doesn't get it. And, you know, this is what I do. You need to really have your own data and then ask yourself questions at a very early age, right? Emotional regulation. And I would say for me, it was great that I grew up in the 80s where you know I was

a huge martial artist fan and I love Bruce Lee so I started you know taking martial arts and competing in competition so it was about you and focus. So when I would be by myself I'm like I can do so. I can yeah be like water can, but empty out my cup and understand that there's things I should learn. And play life with your eyes. He's doing something stupid. I don't need to be doing that. Let me pull myself out of bad situations. Let me give you a model that I absolutely love.

It's the reverse role model. So I grew up in a very working class area of the Northeast of the UK. Famous for only having the highest teen pregnancy rating in the UK, which it then lost, so it didn't even have that anymore after a little while. And there were some people that had certain characteristics like the sort of person I wanted to be like, but there were far more people who were like the person I didn't want to be like. Yes. So I came up with this idea of a reverse role model,

which is I could look around the cricket club that I played at or the school that I went to or wherever I was and say, okay, I really don't want his relationship with his wife. And I really don't want the way that he treats money. And I really don't want his gambling addiction. I don't want the way that he speaks to his friends. So good, man.

Yeah. I really think that much of success in life involves avoiding pitfalls more than expediting successes. Yeah. There's a rule from mathematics called never multiplied by zero. And it means that if you take one million multiplied by 3,000 multiplied by two multiplied by 44, multiplied by zero, you get zero, right? You never multiply by zero. And an example here might be you spend all of this time eating organic, you avoid seed oils, you make sure that your blood work's done. But one day you decide to drive your car without a seatbelt.

All of that good work, 444,000 times, one million times, did did did did did did multiplied by zero. You spend all of your teens being responsible, you go to college, you get the degree, you start to build up a really great life and you just about to go and start traveling the world and you decide to have unprotected sex with somebody and someone gets pregnant and it's an accidental pregnancy. It's not quite zero but your life has now taken an unbelievably different path.

Oh choices and consequences and absolutely I agree with you. Yeah, so I think trying to find examples of people like the person you don't want to be like is maybe more valuable than having role models like the person you don't want to be like, is maybe more valuable than having role models like the person you do want to be like around. 100%. I mean, like I said earlier, play life with your eyes. Observe. And then ask yourself,

do you want to be like that? Because you're hanging around them. It was interesting, my book in Agent Thomas, we were in the Uber, heading over here. And a gentleman that was driving happened to be in the same neighborhood as me, growing up. Very crazy. And we were basically talking about, he was, actually he was And we were basically talking about, he was actually he was sharing about a person that we knew, they got shot and killed out here years ago, you know, playing the NFL this and that, you know.

So anyway, and I was like, man, over a traffic stop. One decision of getting out of the car, being this big ass dude, charged the cop now, were they supposed to shoot him? Hell no, but emotional regulation. That one decision, he paid the ultimate cost. So where I grew up, very synonymous like style, like what you're talking about?

We used to call people stumble, bum, stumble, bum. Like you're gonna be a bum one day because you're stumbling over, you know, you stumble, bum. So I drug dealers, I saw a lot of drug use. I saw teen pregnancy, my first high school dance ended up in a friend's brother getting shot in the face six times about 10 yards away from me. So I had to understand like you start hanging around

certain types of people bro, like you're gonna be around more bullshit. So now you gotta realize also, this is why your parents would always try to over be over protective and tell you what to do. All right, so you can't always be defiant. But then you have to play life with your eyes and know that there's a certain time

that you should probably head home. That kid don't have curfew because maybe his parents just don't care. Maybe his parents aren't there, but yours are. So you need to make better decisions because your choices will always yield either positive or negative consequences. Better put them condoms on, boy, because you just might get a kid out of it. Is that what you want? No, then either don't have sex or be protected, right? In my high school, so damn ghetto, I mean, I hate to say it this, but like, or there was ghetto there, but it was smart. We had a teen health center inside the high school. You can go get columns, you can go get checked for SEDs,

all this stuff, because it practiced season, you know, SEDs, sort of trying to be preventative. No one that kids aren't gonna listen. In fact, it's just funny, like when I graduated college, I remember my stepdad, you know, no, my mom was like, you made it, you made it, you made it. I was like, yeah, I made it, like, and I'm like, pop, like made it out.

Well, pop said, well, you didn't get a girlfriend. You made it, you didn't get a girlfriend. You know what I mean? I forget about the diploma. Yeah, yeah, yeah, forget about the degree, you know what I should about it. Yeah, you did all that without, you know, causing any trouble. But, you know, we're talking. You know, I should. Yeah, you did all that without causing any trouble.

But you know, we're talking about two. Chris is that we built social equity through all the decisions. All of the knows that we told friends or family or even that crazy bastard on our own saying, go do this, go do this, you know. We said no, because we were driven by our legacy, we're driven by something that we dreamed about. And we knew that getting behind a wheel of a car

while you're inebriated is just too much of a price. I refused to do that because, man, do I really want to be in the paper for that? Do I really want to kill somebody or myself or one of my friends? Do I really really wanna, you know, this is crazy, but I mean, it's just like, you know, you playing life with your eyes. I remember when Len bias died. Famous basketball player, he was drafted by the Boston Celtics.

This guy was gonna be better than Jordan, okay? Like, just imagine this. Like, you know, you have like a big three. Well, the salesman's already had that. And they were gonna add in, let's say like a LeBron James. He was basically like built like a LeBron James, buff shoot rebound everything you should look him up he did he did cocaine the first time on draft night died died done didn't even get to see his first game as a pro, right? A champion that never was. You got to think as he's probably Odeon. Oh

shit. Zero. Zero. This is what I get. And this is where we have to acknowledge the different demons that people have and understand like, but I just want to feel something, you know, I just want to blend in with some of my friends. I just, you know, I just want people have and understand, but I just wanna feel something. I just wanna blend in with some of my friends. I just wanna have, man, I just have a little bit, little taste, hit a little taste. He's done. So seeing that, I cried. I remember telling my mom, she was like, what's wrong?

Baby, I was like, he died, he died, he died. Well, he died. And that was an opportunity for her to say, this is why you'll never do that. You know what I'm saying? So, I've always tried to be mindful of that angel that's inside of us all that says, hey, don't do that, don't touch that hot stove.

You're gonna get burnt. You're gonna learn a couple lessons in life and those lessons are always paid with a price that's expensive or inexpensive. Inexpensive, parking ticket, expensive, then bias. You gotta figure this out. And you gotta be, you can't be so ecotistical that you think that you'll cheat death or cheat the system

or whatever. So it's the ones that actually do all the things the right way throughout their entire life that have built a real legacy. And it's something admirable. Am admirable. So here's the thing is, like imagine that you do manage to make a number of bad decisions and stack the deck against your favor and somehow you do make it through. The only way that you've done that is by putting a blindfold on and running through a minefield and simply by chance, I would rather try, and this is my rescue version, right? In business, in everything that I do, I'm very, very risk averse, which means that I sometimes

don't take opportunities when they come, but it also means that I usually tend to avoid pitfalls as best I can. If you do do the wrap the blindfold on, tie it and run, the only way that you make it through unscored is by sheer chance. That's it. Sure, chance, you know. If you're faith-based, I mean, you could throw that in there for sure. But, yeah, you may not want to try that too many times. And what you're speaking of in my opinion is a level of discernment. So, understanding that there's an ideation stage and then you have to figure out strategy

and you have to figure out those pitfalls, right? And then make it relatable to you, like, would you play Mario Brothers knowing that there is like a place where you could jump and if you miss, you die? Well, there's parsing your life, man. You gotta jump, you better calculate it. And there's some people who will take that jump every single time. You're gonna jump, you're calculated. And there's some people who will take that jump

every single time. And you're like, dude, there's no response. There's no response in this life. So you gotta be very mindful of this shit. You gotta be very mindful of, hey, I'm gonna try this drug or I'm gonna do this. Be mindful, man, because there's some people that have had some really bad, you know, data that doesn't support your decisions.

You really wanna do that, and if you do, and you make it, there's still data that says, if you try it again, you may, you know, it's like Russian roulette, you know, like, eventually, you're gonna lose, so, what are you willing to lose? What are you willing to lose? What are you willing to gain?

How do you leverage these things? And, hey, it's your life. You make it make sense for you. But, yeah, I know like with business and stuff, really the only relationship is when you lose. It's a great teacher. Some of the greatest entrepreneurs are the ones that lost eight,

if not nine figures in their 30s, to then be a billionaire in their 50s. But now a day as I look at this, I'm like, where can I actually learn from as many people as possible that have made mistakes? Like sometimes I always look at like pastors. They're not perfect. A lot of the good ones had bad pasts.

You know, like, oh, that was this, I was this. They could talk from real world to experience, you know? So I just try to align myself with people that have endured some type of level of adversity, but understood the patterns, the strategies, the enough is enough mentality, like enough is enough. I screwed around when I was in high school in college. I screwed around, man.

It's time to grow up. It's time to grow up. And harness that energy within and push it. And just keep going, knowing that there's gonna be pitfalls. There's gonna be, I mean, but you're gonna get some, you're gonna get hit, man. I think a lot of people just don't wanna get hit.

And that's what goes back to the pain tolerance and stuff. And you gotta know you're gonna get your ass man. I think a lot of people just don't wanna get hit and that's what goes back to the pain tolerance and some stuff and you gotta know you're gonna get your ass beat, depending on what you want. If you want just the typical five grand a month job, I mean yeah, you may have some things, well I may 50 grand a month. Come with a different level. You wanna be five million a month.

There's some people that listen, they'll say, I don't wanna be that CEO, I'm good being the CEO or even just CEO level person, because I can still see my kids, they can have a great life with me. They value things different, they know that if they put too much emphasis on just this title of running a Fortune 500 company, someone may get left behind,

and then they may not understand whether it be my wife or my kids or my friends. You know, I had to think about that in my career, like, you know, with friends. They're not gonna understand, so you can't hang out with them. A lot of my thirties, I didn't see my college friends. But it's all good because I got what I wanted out of it. It's kind of like Kobe Bryant, like he didn't hang out

with people, he didn't do those things, you know, on draft 90, his draft, he goes to the gym. You people, he didn't do those things, you know, on draft 90, because gravity goes to the gym. You know, that's, I think that's how you, that's how you answer your call to greatness. You do it and you don't stop. You do not stop because, oh man, it would be really shitty at the end of that life of yours that you're able to look at the version of self that you should have been and that person kind of puts their arm around you and says,

I feel man, you could have done all this. Let me tell you about it. And I, and you, this is supposed to be the promised land. But before we walk there, I just got to show you what he could have done. Now you did okay. And I want to hurt you. But this is who I am. And you just be entier. So upset that all those wise and road, all those decisions that could have been made with some sacrifice, with some discernment, with some humility,

with with ability to just say, enough is enough with this BS, and I just need to have some stamina that you could really achieve who you're truly supposed to be, not just for yourself, but for others, because that's really what I believe in like afterlife is that I would see that person,

and he would be able to say, look at the people who you impacted based on what you did. And, you know, I, I, uh, if, when I have moments where I am fatigue, I think of that. And I focus on that. And that's when it is just get your ass up, bitch. You know, like, you got to say whatever it is because that future version of self is someone that is really the gift. And if you really think that,

imagine the people when they walk past your grave. That's very, I met him at the expo and he had a whole line of people and he poured into me man and son That's the role model. I want you to be he helped me I won't stop until I you know Am I opinion can lay lay down and say you know what? Am I a pinion can lay down and say, you know what? I know I help people, not because I held a phone on my hand and stuff like that, but I know because those people were right about you.

See, we have followers and stuff, but you know, if you Google yourself, you probably have less search results because no one wrote about you. I looked you up, people write about you because you one wrote about you. I looked you up people write about you because you do things like this. You produce intellectual conversation while I truly appreciate and um, you know, I wish you all the best because this is dope but uh, you know, you got me thinking um men in general Men in general have to dream again, have to start declaring what they really want. And they can't just be a watcher or a fucking car, man.

It has to be something of true legacy that if none of this really, no jewels mattered, what jewels are you leaving behind that are in the mind that can imprint on someone's soul. Phil Heath, ladies and gentlemen, Phil, I absolutely adore your energy. I've really, really, really enjoyed today. Where should people go if they want to keep up to date with all of the things that you're doing at the moment? Just at Phil Heath. At Phil Heath, and I'm redoing my website because I got a lot of cool things coming up. I have an upcoming documentary that will be announced at some point in time, hopefully this year called Breaking in Olympia.

It actually has one film festival, where's in the Florence film festival, awards for best documentary and best director. It's being co-produced by seven bucks productions. I think you guys know who that is with Danny Garcia and Duane, the rock Johnson. So be on the lookout, either for that at the end of the year or the beginning of next year.

It's being picked up by a Hollywood studio, which is the first of its kind, even Prump and Iron didn't have that. So, I wish I could tell you who it is, but put it like this, what is a Hollywood studio, it always starts with their name at the beginning. And, you know, of course, I'm working with Trans-N, you know, great HRT company, and you

know, we produce a lot of medications for people, but more importantly, we work with veterans, which I truly appreciate their commitment, along with first responders. So we just, you know, I sit on the board for their foundation. So I hope raised money for those people in need, especially at the top that have been knocked out of the fight, that have PTSD, TBI, those things. So you can follow me, obviously, on my social media, you can click the link in the bio, and you can see all the cool stuff that I'm doing. Shout out to FlexProMills, all those guys, Shiek, Jim Shark, of course, because that's

why I'm here. And I'm really excited to proliferate more bad assery with this company, because I watched them for the very beginning, being at the freaking body power at the NEC, you know what I mean? And seeing their stamina and their willingness to champion through not just gym chart but the gym chart lifting events that we put on. So yeah, keep training hard, training smart, and of course having a whole lot of freaking fun, inspire the people who are, you know, willing to listen and if they don't keep doing it anyway. And just having that smile no matter what man. Go, I appreciate you. Thank you, mate. Thank you.