Modern Wisdom - #703 - Patrick Bet-David - Why Does No One Trust The Media Anymore?

Episode Date: November 6, 2023

Patrick Bet-David is an entrepreneur, founder of Valuetainment, podcaster and author. Given that the world is in chaos, we would usually turn to our institutions and news organisations to make sense of what's happening. But trust in these institutions is as an all time low, so what can we do about it? Expect to learn why it’s actually important to have enemies, Patrick's thoughts on Ben Shapiro's new Snow White movie, what he thinks about Dana White's life philosophy, what it takes to actually impress people, why immigrants have such a strong work ethic, who actually runs the world, whether Tucker Carlson is going to break the internet and much more... Sponsors: Get a Free Sample Pack of all LMNT Flavours with your first box at https://www.drinklmnt.com/modernwisdom (automatically applied at checkout) Sign up for a one-dollar-per-month trial period from Shopify at https://www.shopify.com/modernwisdom (automatically applied at checkout) Get $500 discount on Fountain Life at https://fountainlife.com/modernwisdom (discount automatically applied) Extra Stuff: Get my free Reading List of 100 books to read before you die → https://chriswillx.com/books/ To support me on Patreon (thank you): https://www.patreon.com/modernwisdom - Get in touch. Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chriswillx Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/chriswillx YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/modernwisdompodcast Email: https://chriswillx.com/contact/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the show. My guest today is Patrick Bette-David. He's an entrepreneur, founder of Value Tainment, a podcaster, and an author. Given that the world is in chaos, we would usually turn to our institutions and news organisations to make sense of what's happening. But trust in these institutions is at an all-time low. So what can we do about it? Expect to learn why it's actually important to have enemies. Patrick's thoughts on Ben Shapiro's new Snow White movie, what he thinks about Dana White's life philosophy, what it takes to actually impress people. Why immigrants have such a strong work ethic, who really runs the world, whether Tucker

Carlson is going to break the internet, and much more. This episode was very fun. Flew all the way out to Fort Lauderdale in Florida to record with Patrick and yeah, the guy is a real tour de force of capitalism and sort of lean in hard work mentality. There's not a lot to learn from this one. Don't forget that if you're new here or a long time listening, you might be listening, but not subscribed and that is Tres Bad because you will miss episodes over the next couple of weeks when I have some of the biggest guests on the planet coming on Modern Wisdom.

You don't want to do that, so navigate to Apple Podcasts or Spotify and press the subscribe button to support the show and make me very happy and not miss those episodes. I thank you. But now, ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Patrick You say that you're useless to the world if you're not competing and you need enemies to drive you. Why? I think most people who say they don't have enemies, they probably don't want to tell others they have the enemy or they don't want to disclose it.

They're great poker players. I don't know a single person that doesn't have an enemy. Everybody does. We're very good at concealing our insecurities, our emotions, our fears, our wildest desires, our enemies or comments that rub us the wrong way that wire us We are very good actors incredible actors, right now if you have a long time of talking to somebody and you kind of watch them closely And the more they talk and eventually you're gonna find some leaks You're like oh, I just found one right there boom. I found one contradiction right there boom

I found one and they're okay interesting. We all have a little bit of that But I do think that when you study the people that do something very big, I'm not talking about small, I'm talking really, really big. We're talking about some interesting people today. You and I have somebody we both respect a lot. Robert Green, his books. I'm sure you love his books.

I love his books. 33 Strategies of War. I couldn't put it down for two years straight. I listen to that book every day in my car, straight every day. It was on repeat for two years straight. Why though? Because I innocently got into sales. And I had a good time in sales and business

after I got out of the military. And I wanted to be a bodybuilder. And then I realized I'm six, four. It's not going to work for bodybuilding to win the maestro Olympia because everybody's 585, 95, 10 maybe 511, a Ronnie Coleman, but the six four days are behind us, even Luc Ferringo didn't win at that height Arnold did. And then when I got into sales and everybody was a fan, then I started competing still a little bit of fan. But when I started the insurance company and then I started growing market share really, then a lot of those people that were fans then started undermining.

And I said, God it, this is how it works. You can be the snaif, you can be this innocent. Competition's out there. If you want to go out there and take market share from others and you want to get bigger, you can't expect for people to sit there and like everything you're doing. That's when I realized you got to choose your enemies wisely. People want you to do well. They just don't want you to do better than that.

Yes. Yes. Yeah, it's interesting. There's this story of Churchill and he's showing a young MP around the House of Lords in the UK. This is before World War II. You can imagine that they're wandering through these dusty hallways. There's the toilets and over there's where we have a cigar and a rubber. Anyway, they go into the chamber, they go into the house of Lords, right? The difference, actually, the distance between the two front benches is the same distance as a long

sword held out at arm's length from both sides. She's a kind of a funny vestige of evidently what they were worried about in the Middle Ages, and they've just just continued to update but they've never changed the distance of the front benches. Anyway, like this young guy who's probably full of testosterone and he's finally he's here with Winston Churchill. He go in and this young MP starts gesticulating at the other side. He keeps referring to them as the enemy. Churchill turns to him and he says, that's the opposition dear boy.

The enemy's behind you. And I love that story. The reason that I love that story is that it often reminds us that symbolically we believe that the biggest obstacle we have to overcome is out there and many times the call is coming from inside of our own house. I think that the worst enemy that many people have is the voice that's inside of their own head. Now, this voice has probably maybe come from the outside world, but we've now internalized it.

You know, we have become our own worst enemy in some regards. Yeah, and by the way, that's one of the enemies. That's one of the enemies. And there isn't one as the famous Matthew McConaughey speech that he's given. Hey, one guy asked me, who's the greatest actor in the world? And he says, Hey, you know, I'll tell you. And then you're like, I want to meet the 35 year version of me. And hey, when I get to 35, you know, I want to end

the 45, it's always looking forward to what that next better version of you is going to be. But at the end of the day, even Alexander, one of his famous quotes, it's quotes is, I have met the enemy. It is I, right? And although that is one element of an enemy, that's great. We need that. Michael had it, Brady had it, Kobe had it, but there's a crazy psychologically, you can call it, you know, psycho-competitor that they're constantly in the search of recruiting their next enemy.

It's like, you know, life is boring if I don't have my next target. You know, I'm almost, you know, a bad for myself if I don't have the next target, the next enemy. And if I choose it the right way, then I'm able to bring out a side of me I've never seen before. What's the function of an enemy? What is the function of an enemy? What is the function of falling in love? Why do you need to fall in love?

Why do you need to have a wife? It's enjoyable. It's pleasurable. It's fulfilling. But what is a duty though when you're in love? You know how they say when a person is in love and they go and test their brains and it's like somebody that's on drugs, you've seen this before, you probably read this before, right? Okay. So, but what's the risk of love?

Heartbreak, losing years of, maybe you love the wrong person, maybe they don't love you and return as much as you love them, maybe you're going to give more than they're going to give you maybe a betrayal. Maybe it's an act. Maybe it's just good for the season. Maybe they're going to change your mind if they really find out what you're up. There's a lot of risk to love. But why do we love? It's a very unique relationship. That risk is exhilarating. It's exciting. that risk is exhilarating, it's exciting, you know, maintaining it, it's a lot of work. It's not easy, it's why nowadays, most people don't wanna get married.

Nowadays, there's a movement of, I don't wanna get involved to getting married. I don't wanna have kids, it's too risky. I wanna live for myself. I don't wanna have the responsibilities. I don't wanna be heartbroken. Okay, great. I think, you know, once I time a friend of mine and I,

Aarash, we're in Italy. And I rented this place in Tuscan, Italy. This is like 10 years ago. And we're staying there and Aarash and I, when we're together, we like to debate. And we debate about anything. It doesn't matter what the topic is, anything, okay. He's like the Middle Eastern Bradley Cooper,

two good-looking of a guy, one of those guys, kind of like your good looking guy, he's a good looking guy. So we have a three hour drive to Chinquateta, okay? It's a beautiful place you go to, and it's a long drive to go to it. You know what we're debating about? Love, here's what the question was. Can you love somebody, you know,

define love for me, it says love is a feeling, it's emotion, it's this, it's a great. He says, love is a feeling. It's emotion. It's this. It's a great. I said, say you're in jail. Your wife is somewhere else. How does she know you love her? How do you show her love?

Is love a verb? Is love a feeling? Is love a noun? What happened this conversation right? And then you realize the risk of loving is worth it. I can't imagine living life without having that love. It introduces you to person you've not met before. Man, a great enemy does that as well.

A formidable enemy is going to introduce you to person you've not seen before. By the way, it could be ugly, it could be scary, it could be, oh my god, who is this person? Why are you acting like this? Why are you acting like this? Why are you thinking like this? So most of us, when we see, it's almost like that, the movie Venom, it's one of my son's favorite movie, right? The Venom comes in, it's like, there's an ugly sight

to it if you lose control of it, right? And you become reckless, then you hurt people around you. Then you're actually not good for yourself, you're destroying your own life. That's why the key word is what? Choose your enemies wisely. It's not, it's not have an enemy. It's choose your enemies wisely. If I choose the right enemy and then I have this relationship with this enemy, sometimes it's a one month enemy. It could be a one week enemy, it could be a one day enemy, it could be a lifelong

enemy because it's yourself because that's a permanent enemy. And just like a level fair, there is an affair with this enemy. It's actually a beautiful thing. I love the idea of it bringing out a side of you that you didn't know, bringing out a person inside of you that you want to wear existed. So I think there's a, there's definitely a function to get that into you. Come on, crack it in. There's definitely a function to people looking to be well balanced. Oh yeah. Delicious. Good.

Wow. Fantastic. That's what I want to hear. Six months of taste testing. So I'm glad that it's going to fly to the Liverpool to do that. I take some of the taste testing, so I'm glad that it's going to fly. To fly to Liverpool to do that. There is definitely a culture on the internet of people wanting to ameliorate all of their difficult and uncomfortable emotions, to transmute them into something closer to equanimity,

right, balance, peace, sanity. And I've said this a lot. And I think that I'm quite averse to conflict by nature. That's the way that I tend to operate. I often just bow out, opt for peace and then two things changed. First off, I realized that I am leaving an awful lot of motivation on the table by not utilizing a very specific, very potent kind of fuel, because I was aware that over a long enough time span, I think it can be toxic. I think that if

you're fueled by hate and distaste and fear and scarcity for long enough, it becomes something that damages you more than it helps you win. But it's unbelievably potent, especially in times of war. The second thing that happened was I became a little bit more of a target for people's eye and distaste, and that meant that the underdog loving support that everybody has for the person that's on the come-up dissolved a little bit and started to evaporate because people don't mind you doing well, they just don't want you to do better than them. When you're on the way up, everyone roots for you because you remind them of their dreams

and when you're at the top, everyone tries to tell you down because you remind them of what they gave up on. Those two things changed. Now, a great conversation with Alex Hormosi that really drove this home to me said, use what you have and a lot of people have more pain than they do pleasure. Don't use it for too long. 10, 15, 20 years, like that's how you end up having a breakdown or some sort of dependency or addiction or vice, but it's potent, so use it. And I think that the inside of enemies can bring outside of you that you are not aware, you weren't aware, even existed, is kind of like

alchemy, right? It's turning something that is both toxic and useless into something which is golden in your choice. Yes. And by the way, your eyes, okay, I'm looking at your eyes right now. Your eyes don't tell me a guy that is just doing this to just have fun. Okay, your eyes have a lot of fire in them. Okay, a lot of fire in them. Your eyes tell a story of maybe you have a crazy side, a side inside of you, okay. A side that maybe you keep inside, okay. We're very few people maybe see,

but that's why you're doing as well as you're doing. I walk into this place, I do a lot of podcasts, I walk into this place. You chose, lot of podcasts, I walk into this place. You choose, I walk in, I'm like Sam, where are we? He says, honestly, I don't know, but I think we're at the right place. We walk in and I see why you do what you do in the amount of time and resources

and your team putting into hand selecting a different set. We don't do that. So what does that tell me? You're maniacal, you're detail oriented, you're moving up right now in the podcast, across the board competing with everybody. You have a vision, maybe some of it we know, probably all of it we don't know.

Okay, some of it's kept even the smallest tellin' the story right now. You're a perfect example of this, right? If you and I sit down, we get the benefit, I don't know if you read Elon Musk's recent book or not. Walter, I actually think so. Not yet, I've heard from every you read Elon Musk's recent book or not. What do I say? I've heard from every single person that's even glanced at the blurb that you need to read.

You need to read it, you're gonna flip out, you're gonna love it, you'll appreciate it for a guy that's wired like you. We get to judge Elon from the outside. Okay, why would somebody, you sell a company for $180 million, you take $100 million, You put it in a solar, whatever you take 70 in Tesla, you put 10 in another company, vice versa, whatever the structure. No, you put $100 million in a space, $70 million in Tesla, and 10 million, you put it in

solar. Then you're a billionaire. Then you want to do what? You want to go to the next thing? Then boring company. Then you got Twitter, what for? And you read a story in the book about his father on how his father was. Are you kidding me? Oh, I mean, if you, some of the biggest people that we read about, we watch movies about, it's one of their two parents that did something to them.

I'm with Tom Brady a month ago, we have him at the event. And the formula I see with a lot of people that do something biggest three things. One, at one point in their lives, they experience unconditional love, because you need it, it's fuel, you have to have it. Even if it's just from one person, okay? Unconditional love means what?

You screwed up, you went to jail, you got a DUI, you got kicked out of school, you got expelled. Everybody ousted you and said you're a nobody, you're not going to amount to anything, you're a loser, you're this, but that mother, they're always said, honey, I love you. You can do anything to lose this one person's love, one person. That's all you need, You don't need 50 of them, just one unconditional love. Number two is you need somebody who brought unbelievable pain in your life that you loved. This is a person you and I loved that they destroyed our hearts. We couldn't do anything to gain love from this person. Nothing.

Perform, tell them we love them, go above and beyond, give them money, buy them gifts, give them incredible experiences, become buff, have a six-pack drive a Ferrari, have a Lambo owner pen house, have a yacht, be best friends with the best athletes with billionaires, no matter what you do. This person brought you so much pain, you can never win this person over. It is a battle your entire life try to win this person over, you're never going to do it. It's not going to happen, but you need that person as well. You know what the last one is, obviously choosing your enemies wisely, you take a person

that has those three combinations, by the way, very rarely, what they ever tell you the entire reason, very rarely will they fully disclose everything. Some of them will take it to their grave with them. We will never know about it. But for someone to have the kind of a fire that goes years beyond 99% of people would have stopped, what's the reason for it? What else do you need? How many more accolades? How many more tens of millions of dollars? How many more cars? How many more houses? How many more top charts on podcasts number one this?

What's the reason for it? You know, it's a Again, we're not talking about everybody. Most people will listen to this whole concept of choose your enemies rising They'll say that's hate, what a miserable life. What a this, what a that. Now, most people chose the wrong enemies. The enemies they've chosen is about being entitled, is about being victims, about feeling sorry for themselves,

and it's destroyed them, it's stolen years away from their lives. So yeah, the way you're describing what you're saying, you'll typically see a pattern with those three things of people who do something big, they experience those three and unfortunately the reason why I like Musk's book is when you read it you see the pattern with all three. Unconditional love, mom and Kimball, his brother, unconditional pain, father, choosing his enemies wisely, industry, traditional, you know,

guys who are like, this is the way we do with NASA, you know, governmental agencies, censorship, you know, establishment. He's just recruiting new enemies for himself every day. It's like bored. He needs more enemies and more enemies. But guess who's talking about him around the world? Everybody is 100 years hundred years from now, our kids, our grandkids will look back and say, and who was this Elon Musk guy? Unfortunately, we're not going to be around to talk about who was, how we viewed him, but they're going to be watching plenty of documentaries and movies about a guy like that because he chose his enemies wisely. It feels to me, I've got in my mind the image of a Pac-Man, you know, when he is able to

eat the ghosts, and the ghosts, since were previously a threat to him now become fuel. And that, to me, is, I learned the three most common traits of elite performers, and it was a crippling sense of insufficiency, a superiority complex, and maniacal focus. And I think that those three things map onto what you were just talking about there. Have you read this book? I've read the first half. Just so you know, that part from your podcast is in the book.

You're in the book. Did you know this or no? No. You're in your podcast is in the book. Those three things you just talked about. Okay. It's in the book. Hell yeah. Hell yeah.. Those three things you just talked about. It's in the book.

Hell yeah. Hell yeah. So those three things, right? I'm scared that I'm not enough. I believe that I can do more. I have the impulse control to be able to keep me focused and keep me moving forward. What would you say to the people that say,

what you're describing sounds an awful lot like a competitor. Okay. Yeah. What's the difference between a competitor and an enemy? Yeah, it's not a competitor because to me. So in the last 20 some years, I have worked my tail off to figure out a way of writing a business plan that I can teach others how to write a business plan.

So when you go buy books on business plans, it's all boring, technical, it's for a Fortune 500 company or somebody that wants to go rates capital and it's so complex and dense, you will not think about a business planning book that you're going to walk away saying, here's how I can write a business plan that's simple that I can look at it over and over again. Great. I'm good to go, right? There isn't something like that out there. This is supposed to be a business planning book that turned into an enemy's book. When I'm talking to the publisher of Portfolio, Adrian, and we're going back and forth, we had five hour zooms, five one hour zooms just on the title.

In many cases, we would sit there for 15 minutes, no one's talking. Who wanted what? Who wanted what? Who wanted what? Who wanted what? So they wanted to figure out a title that was a straight up title. Like, you know, I was like, well, how to think and grow rich, you know, how to just a very much of a business planning being the type exactly something like that. And then eventually, I'm selling Adrian.

I'm saying, but that's not what it is. This is much deeper than that. It has to do with enemies. And eventually, on the fifth time of choosing the title, Gesu finally says the title of the book has to be choose your enemies wisely. Adrian does from portfolio. And I said that's the title. You won. It was a battle of attrition. It was a battle of attrition. We put a few hundred of them, right? But it's an interesting concept when you're saying competition. To me, the 12 building blocks that I talk about in this book, we have different categories

because one side of the building block has to do with emotion. The other side of the building block has to do with logic. You read this when you were going through the book. So, on the emotion side, it's going to move us. So for example, what skill sets do I need to learn? Well, I need to learn how to do podcasts, how to ask questions, how to do research. You told a Churchill story at the beginning

with the sword, the size, and hey, your enemies are not ahead of you, they're behind you. Okay, you have to go find that story, that's content, right? Okay, so that means you're constantly reading. Why is this guy so good at what he does with content? Okay, he's very detailed. Look at the lighting, look how he does it, look at his sets, he's intentionally, he's not winging it.

Everything you're doing for the most part, 95% of it can be replicated by somebody else, but the 5% is your wit, is your interest, is the curiosity. I did a person hazard or they don't have it, right? Okay, so yes, I can pick up those skills, but do I have your willpower? That's emotional. Yes, I can go study the competition.

Let me see the top podcastes out there what they're doing. What is a category for politics? For business, for sports, for comedy. Yes, but, enemies bigger. Study competition all you want. But enemies are a complete different criteria that you're talking about. You can have all the money in the world.

Fantastic. That's finances. That's money. You can go raise money. There's plenty of companies that raise money. Could be a few years ago raised 2.3 billion dollars from who? All the big money guys. Everybody gave could be money, what happened to them? Katzenberg, Meg Whitman, everybody behind it went out of business.

In 1962, 1962 was a super saving center, which is the year where Target came out, Walmart came out, and Costco came out, all the same year, 1962. Okay? In 1962 when these Target came out, Walmart came out and Costco came out all the same year, 1962, okay? In 1962 when these companies came out, Caymart goes and raises a ton of money. Five years later, Caymart has 250 locations. Walmart has nine locations five years later. Caymart, honor leaders bulletin within five years, guess who's winning? Kmart's dominating. All logical.

All numbers. Spread sheet. Etc. Etc. You couldn't tell me the founder of Kmart. Who is? If I ask who's the founder of Kmart, you're not going to say Mr. Kmart, right? That doesn't make any sense.

What happened in Kmart a few years ago? Kmart goes out of business. They're no longer around. You know how many employees Walmart has around the world 2.3 2.5 million employees do you know Walton Sam Walton when the best books you can ever read is made in America it's 200 pages he walks you through how he built Walmart do you know what his poorest kid is worth today poorest kid is worth 50 billion dollars today he's got four of them can you imagine these guys that Thanksgiving they're like hey Johnny I

notice man you're only at 50 billion do I. He's got four of them. Can you imagine these guys that Thanksgiving, they're like, hey, Johnny, I noticed man, you're only at 50 billion. Do I need to, you know, go for a minute, raise some money for you. Now, it's going to be all right. You're going to make it through. What's the moral of the story? The moral of the story is, one is logic. The other one is emotion.

Emotion brings out a different set. If it can be controlled madness, controlled emotion, it's going to go into a different gear that a normal person is not going to have. We'll get back to talking to Patrick in one minute. controlled madness, controlled emotion, it's gonna go into a different gear that a normal person's not gonna have. We'll get back to talking to Patrick in one minute, but first I need to tell you about element. Element contains a science-backed electrolyte ratio of sodium potassium and magnesium with no junk,

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That's drinklmnt.com slash modernwisdom. Let's start competition. You're saying competitors, right? Okay. No problem. drink LMNT.com slash modern wisdom. Let's start competition. You're saying competitors, right? Okay, no problem. In high school, you can see somebody who was the best basketball player, super competitive at that level. Say they're tall, they're six six, they can jump 40 inches.

They have a quick first step. They're very athletic in every way. They're the best athlete in the county, even in the state for that position. No problem. They go to college, they can compete, but maybe they're coming off the bench average and 7.2 points a game, three rebounds, two assists. No problem. They may not make it to the NBA, but let's just say he makes it to the NBA, plays a year, two years, then he goes to Puerto Rico, then he goes to Spain, then he plays in Turkey, then he plays in China, ten years later, never comes back to the NBA.

He's out, now he's an assistant coach in Puerto Rico or some worlds. Then there's a guy that comes to the NBA, he competes. He's talented, he shows into work, he's a very good worker, stable guy, doesn't do the drugs, doesn't do the alcohol. He looks up at a lot of girls, but he doesn't get in the way, he doesn't respect the, he respects his teammates' wives, he doesn't do anything. He plays for up at a lot of girls, but he doesn't get into way. He doesn't respect the, you know, he respects his teammates wives. He doesn't do anything. He plays for 15 years, makes $200 million. Good for him. Then you have the psycho competitor who counts the 55 kids ahead of him that were chosen as the best high school basketball player.

And he's ranked number 56 and one by one by one. He targets every one of them until he takes them out as name is Kobe Bryant. Then he had Michael Jordan in 1984 where the number one draft pick is a Himalayan fair good a good selection for the Rockets number two is Sam Buie. I think Portland picks him up or Seattle picks him up. Number three is Michael Jordan. You pick me number three? Yes, what happens to Michael? Dixie, these guys Michael was never the highest pay guy in the NBA. The only time Michael was a high-pay guy in the NBA was a last year, May 33 30 million dollars. Scottie Pippen made more money in the NBA than Michael Jordan never made.

Michael Jordan today is worth three billion dollars. Scottie Pippen is not. What's the difference? It's a very different mindset. Scotty's a competitor, but he's not a Michael's level. By the way, it's very easy to criticize a guy like you who wants to compete. And maybe internally, you don't want to compete. You want to dominate. Maybe internally, you want to show everybody. No, I'm going to be number one. Let's just say within because professionally, I want to do this. Totally cool. But there's a lot of other competitors out there that have good podcasts and they're doing a good job. It's just a different mindset when you have that enemy.

By the way, very rarely will those guys ever truly again, reveal their top driver and the top enemy. Why? Because it's an element of insecurity. Yeah, it's a signal of love status. It is. And it's also, I don't want to give the other person credit. Power.

I don't want to give that other person more power than the person thinks they have. You don't have power. Oh, because somebody may be like, oh, I'm your enemy, I control you. Exactly. Well, when it's a part of the come-up story, it's romantic, right?

It's grassroots. It's what's keeping you going, look at how I was mistreated by my first high school coach. They didn't see the time, I'm going to prove it to them. That's a beautiful origin story, age 20. Age 45, that just sounds like someone who can't get the chip off his shoulder. So yeah, I think it's interesting how the tools that got you here aren't the ones that will get you there and how the strategy, this is again one of the reasons why continuing

to rely on resentment and bitterness and the chip on your shoulder and enemies for too long becomes a very toxic fuel. And it's also importantly, optics are very, very important to single-level status. Okay, I don't disagree. You brought up a story of Churchill, right? Okay. The world is weeks away from all speaking German. Okay, if we lose the war, the guy wins. No problem. Chamberlain cannot hold it together. And the story about how the only way Churchill said it was going to come back is for Chamberlain to come and beg on. The only way. Does it sound like something Churchill would do, by the way?

Absolutely. Yeah. Churchill sat there and said, okay, he has to come and ask me, because Chamberlain sent other people, he said, no, no, no, no, no. Only one person has to come look at me face to face and say, you can do a job I can't do.

Come back and help us. Think about, think about that now. Visualize that scene. We can see in a movie or we can read in a book. And by the way, say 50% of it is true. The other 50% is true, right? The other 50% is a lie and it's like build up mythical over generations, right?

I believe that Churchill would want to hear it from a chamberlain. Have you heard of Churchill's ministry of ungentlemanly warfare? No. So this is a phenomenal book that everybody can go and read. Before the Second World War, it was considered ungentlemanly to use guerrilla-style tactics. And in fact, one of the British politicians said something to the effect of, if this is what it takes to win the war, I am prepared to lose.

They were, the Brits saw anything shy of gentlemanly conduct in war as a loss, even if it resulted in a win. And Churchill came in and changed that. He was the one that changed that culture. So he puts together this crack squad of eccentric weirdos. One guy invents the limpid mine, right, which you can descend to depths and then it'll attach using magnets and it'll build things up.

Another group developed what is the predecessor to the SAS. Another group are working on disguises and guerrilla tactics to disrupt infrastructure as the German advance is trying to move forward. So yeah, Churchill was prepared to play dirty. But you know, you look at the tactics that we used, they only came about because of one mountain who legitimated it and he said, we will do whatever it takes to win. Now, here's the thing, when you hear a story like that, somebody may say, well, you know, what a, what a cold blooded bastard. Oh my God. No wonder people hate him. No wonder he is, who he is, where many president

moved the bust of Churchill and the White House of Winds that take this out. So I don't represent what he represents. Everybody acts all hard, right? We can hate a Churchill during peacetime, but during wartime, you beg for a Churchill to rise up. War time leaders like Churchill, you only appreciate during wartime. There's a really interesting insight from evolutionary psychology here. There's two types of leadership. One is from dominance, and the other is from prestige. One is more authoritarian, it's tyrannical, it's very aggressive. The other is more altruistic. It's the rise to power is denoted, it's spread through the group. Everybody chooses together that this is someone who we all believe has the skills and the dominance is not the same.

And there are specific times when you want dominance and when you want prestige. And in times of conflict, you want dominance. Sure. Sure, you could say in business, it's start up versus when it's more established. Right. But here's also the thing, like the part where

you've got to give a lot of credit to Steve Jobs. Steve Jobs had a startup mentality. And then he took that to the company. And then he hires, you know, his a scully that comes in from Pepsi and he says, you want to sell sugar, can you know, water for the rest of your life or you want to change the world? He brings him in. Then he ends up being the reason to fire jobs, jobs, leaves, goals, builds, picks are, sells

it to Disney. Most of his wealth is tied to Disney, not at Apple. Then he comes back and he realizes that style of leading is not going to work to take the company to the next level. When he comes back to Apple, the first phone call he says, he says, the idea of thinking Microsoft is the enemy is behind us. We can't think like that anymore. This is what Steve Jackson says.

And he goes to Microsoft and he gets $300 million from Microsoft to invest into Apple. And these guys hated each other. Microsoft came out in 76, Apple came out in 77, a year apart. And everybody was always comparing it to together. Bill Gates ended up being much richer than Steve Jobs, but Steve Jobs was admired way more than Bill Gates. So what does this mean? The individual has to evolve.

Like you have to also recreate yourself as you're going through this. The same enemy that drives you when you're 22 years old should not be driving you at 32 years old, or else you haven't matured. You should also out mature that enemy. And then 32 something else should be driving you then 42, then 58, then 63, then 75. But you aren't going to have those love affair with those enemies. That's a love affair. You had an affair with this enemy over an eight-year span, over a 13-year span, over a six-year span, over a six-month span. But, you know, there is truth in the idea

of you still being driven by that enemy, 18 years after you beat that enemy. 13 years after you beat that enemy. Someone who I think is particularly good at creating enemies from modern pop culture and are industry is Ben Shapiro. Okay. What do you think about what he's doing at daily wire from an enemy perspective and generally? You talk more recently with his feud with Tucker Carlson or period generally. Everything overall.

I think Tucker's a true believer. I think Tucker is not somebody that, if he's doing it intentionally to get under your skin, let's say that's 20%, let's say it's 10%, because he's witty and he's smart and he's sharp. Tucker, I'll bend. I'm sorry, Ben Shapiro, so you're talking about right?

Yeah, yeah. Let's say Ben is doing that 10 or 20% intentionally to get under your skin, okay? But this guy, a young gauge, wanted to be Supreme Court just, you know, he's been wanting to be that for a long time. This is not a regular guy. Think I 12 or 13 years old,

he performed in front of a couple thousand people. His level of intelligence of how early on, he got a degree, went to college, 15, 16 years old, did all the stuff that he did. So he's a 100% true believer. Does he have an element that he can talk to somebody and say, I can murder you in a debate right now. If you really want to go there, yes,

he has that element as well. Does he have a side of him that say, maybe a bully type a little bit? Sure. Well, don't forget during school, he was very heavily bullied himself, very heavily bullied. But that's what happens typically to people I can. But that may be the number one driver that he's continuing because he wants for the rest of his life for those bullies to talk about that Ben Shapiro used to be a classmate. What makes him go out to pace that he goes? You think it's just all these other guys that we see? There's no way.

You think he would ever tell us? You think his own family knows that. Highly doubted, it's to himself, many of these people that he has in his life. Anybody that goes at that paceed, it's to himself, many of these people that he has in his life. Anybody that goes at that pace, like Tucker Carlson today, I don't know if you saw the approval, he got, I think they got $150 million today from some organization.

Who did? Tucker's organization. Tucker's organization. Yeah, so finally today, the word is out that he raised money. It's a big amount of money that he finally raised today. Who's his enemy? He's got a very easy enemy. He's got Fox News, former employer as an enemy. He's got a very easy enemy. He's got Fox News, former employer as an enemy. He's got a lot of political people as an enemy. People with Silasam as an enemy.

You know how many enemies Tucker has got? You think Tucker needs another 300 million dollars that he has in a bank account? I highly doubt so. He's doing it for a complete different reason because he wants to give the middle finger to five, 10, 15 different people in his life. You just sense it with Tucker. And by the way, you know what's wild right now. Ben Shapiro went after Tucker this week. What happened? Because of Israel, Tucker's position where he says we should focus on a hundred thousand people in America that are dying from fentanyl, not focused on what's going on in Israel and Gaza. And Ben Shapiro says, you know, we can chew gum and walk at the same time specifically from the moral standpoint.

We can handle two different moral issues, but, you know, they're going back and forth. Whether it's a seasonal thing or not, that's a completely different, you know, competition that we're talking about. I suppose, how do you say enemies of convenience are sometimes good for optics. You know, what have we just seen? Dylan, Danis, Logan Paul, KSI, Tommy Fury, Jake Paul, Tommy Fury, Logan Paul, Jake Paul and who's the Jiu-Jitsu guy, Stockton Slaps? D.S. Thank you, Nate D.I. I love that guy.

Enemies of convenience, you know? Like, nothing gets people's tongues wagging more than you creating a little bit of a feud on the internet. Do you see, they announced yesterday, speaking of feuds and speaking of Disney, that the daily wire are going to do that own version of Snow White with Brett Cooper starring in Snow White. I saw that. I saw that. I mean, that, to me, is largely a declarative statement

of culture war on what's happening with children, with children's movies. It's synthesizing down all of the little tangential issues that have been included. Is there anything to do with the push toward the sort of books that are in school? Is it us denying this Rachel's sigla, Zagler throwing snow white under the bus?

She doesn't have a Prince Charming, she has a stalker. We don't need that. What do you think about that? I think that it is a very dangerous lesson to teach young girls that boys that show interest in them are dangerous and to be avoided. I think it makes for a generation of fragile, narcissistic, fearful young girls that I wouldn't want as a daughter and that I don't want as a mother. You know what a perfect example that is? The movement of feminism is the ultimate example of not choosing your enemies wisely. You chose men as being the enemy. Fort years later, fifty years later, you're 65 years old, single, not married, no kids, You're 65 years old, single, not married, no kids. You're living in an apartment or condo with a dog or a cat.

That's all you ever talk about, and you're lonely, and you're sitting there saying, I was wrong. Men are not the enemy, but guess what? That movement stole 50 years of your life. You know how painful that is? What she's doing right now with the messaging she's given and then getting out there and saying, well, I don't want to be able to do this.

No, you know, what that's not necessarily going to be that with nowadays, you know, women don't need that anymore. It's a completely different era right now we're talking about. And to do this at a hundred year anniversary of Disney, really with what Walt and many of us, I remember living in Iran, watching Disney cartoons translated in Farsi, literally in Farsi. It's very weird when you watch it in Farsi because a language is a rough language. You know,

you get your watch pinocchio. In Farsi, it's not as appealing, right? But we grew up with this stuff. You know, we grew up with watching these cartoons to see that taking place. If you ask me, it's absolutely pathetic, but you're seeing how many back-to-back, to-back flops Disney has right now. And it's not a good look. By the way, the buyers who want to buy Disney, they're loving this. Apple's one of the most qualified buyers. They hope Disney makes five more flops.

Apple's sitting there saying, make five more flops. Iager, please. By the way, have you read the right of a lifetime by Bob Iger? Okay, another interesting guy, what he did with a 38 career at ABC, obviously he's been there a lot longer, but when you read the book to first 38 run, to be one of the best power brokers, then to finish your career up the way you're doing right now, very, very bad way of finishing it up. He's not an idiot, right? You don't have the excuse of not knowing. He is for shh.

What a point you just made. He is 100% not an idiot. This guy was about to run for president. Bob Eichler was gonna, he was one of the guys that everybody was trying to get to run for president. Him and Oprah, they were supposed to be this. Literally, this was a conversation. So he also ended up choosing the wrong enemies and the wrong allies, not realizing

your best allies or parents. You're losing parents who have been watching this for years. You're losing the people that this is a legacy product. It's another example of a complete screw up that's going to come out of this account for somebody else like Apple. You mentioned... I mean, look, to go back to Ben and what Jeremy are doing over the daily wire, Hershey's do a campaign that they don't like. Within five days, they've released their own chocolate bar.

That shaving company does something they don't like. Within 24 hours maybe, they filmed a video with a McLaren for Jeremy's raises. They don't like the way this is. Fantastic, commercial by the way. Well done. Jeremy's got skills. I listened to him and Shapiro talking about the fact

that originally Jeremy was the talent. And Ben was the money man and the data guy behind the scenes. Do you know Zach Levi? I think he's Emma Zach Levi. The actor who played the, what is the movie? The superhero for kid movies. What is a guy's name? Ben 10.

What is it? Ben 10. No, no, it's a race. You're the one with like four kids. Yeah, trust me, I've seen this movie a couple of times. He played Kurt Warner, a recent movie that came out, the American Underdog, he played Kurt Warner. Him and Jeremy used to have a production company

apparently 10, 15 years ago, and Zach ended up being a big time actor in Hollywood doing very good for himself. And by the way, Jeremy is another great example of a guy that's got enemies. Just look at his eyes. When you talk, when you hear Jeremy speak, you see the fire. He's got enemies. He's got enemies and he wants to take those enemies out. But that's why I thought the Daily Y was an illustrative example because they are, as

far as I can see, largely a company built on identifying enemies. You know, they're very much in opposition to ideas that they don't like to movements, they don't like to people that they don't like. And yeah, man, I mean, you have to be built for that. You really, really do need to be built for it. And it certainly seems to me that what Ben and what Jeremy are doing over there is. Purpose built to be the anti this, the anti that and a lot of the time, it's new movements that they don't just, they don't agree with.

The market's going to prove if the concept is going to work or not in, if it can sustain, because if it's a built-to-sol concept, they're going to succeed. But can somebody else come and pick up that concept and continue with that, with the same level of fire? It's going to take a couple decades to figure that part out. But it's interesting to think, you know, from our side, when you see those Rachel Ziggler interviews and she's saying, courting is stalking. Gold doesn't need to be saved by a prince. She's busy thinking about how she can fulfill her own dreams

and becoming the woman that she always knew that she could right, that look, ultimately the market will choose. There's no question about it. The market will choose. The market is brutal. You know, you know what's a great thing about it. It's always right. It's always right. You know, you can say, well, let me tell you,

I'm the best bodybuilder in the world. Yeah, okay, look at your calves. Yeah, good luck. You go put those little skimpy shorts on and see what your legs look like. Now, you're not as good as you think you are. You're full of it. Yeah.

Market is brutal. Podcast, business, concepts, investments, drinks, alcohol, books you write. When I first wrote your next five moves and we launched it August of 2020, it's during the peak of COVID. My publisher Simon and Schusser asked and said, so how do you think the book's going to do? How are you going to judge the book? Me and Greg think in our talk and I said,

if the book is doing well three years from now, it was a good book. You can have a great marketing campaign. The book does well the first 30, 16, 90 days. But is the book selling three years later? If it is, that's a great book. Because the market will tell you that. Yeah, very interesting to think about how optics and there are ways to game the system. And I think people are very, they're hyper aware of this. They understand that there are people

who have managed to use tactics and hacks to get themselves into a position that they maybe didn't quite deserve, that the legitimacy of the product, the book, or whatever it is, the person who maybe when Meghan Markle's autobiography comes out, perhaps people would accuse her of doing something like this, right? It's not to do with the actual product, it's to do with the positioning. And sometimes that does work. But ultimately, form is temporary and class is permanent. Navarra's got this great quote where he says, karma is just people repeating their beliefs, actions and behaviors until they finally get what they deserve. You just

roll the dice, you keep rolling the dice, right? Every single time, every single thing you do, the way that you interact with the Uber driver, the way that you pay or don't pay the bill or invoice that you've got every tiny little thing each time is an opportunity for your true nature to come on. And people just keep on rolling the dice. Keep on rolling the dice and then every so often someone hits double one and you go, oh, there we go. But it's temporary. You can do permanently. Megan Merkel, whether her motives are really because she loves the prince and it's like Harry. She's in love with them or she's using the power to bully and get what she wants out of it. The market is brutal. Look what happened to Amber. For how many years did everybody think, you know, Johnny Depp was a bad guy.

For how many years, oh, Johnny Depp was an abusive, you know, relationship, all this up and then they start showing the clips, the videos and Johnny's comfortable with it being public and all of a sudden 180. The world is like what an asshole she is. Not him, I love Johnny. The next thing, you know, the love affair was like how many more men are going through like Johnny Is and then how many women said she ruined it for women who were actually abused. So yeah for longest time. Oh my god

Crying is such a so difficult time what he was so many hit me. We fell for it But we will only fall for temporarily temporarily, not permanently. The market will reveal eventually. Hopefully. Again, for Miss Tempere class is permanent and people will ultimately get what they deserve. When it comes to the courting is stalking culture that we have at the moment, you've got a daughter, you've got young sons, you also spend some time undervalutainment talking about intersectional dynamics and what's going on between the sexes. What do you make of the current dating scene for men and women? And why do you think it's being demonized in some ways? From what perspective?

From I think that there is an anti-dating culture at the moment. Okay. I think that men and women are being encouraged to be treated as equals. Sorry, as adversaries, not as equals. Right. Right. I think it's transactional today. I think it's easy today. I think the swipe right community is Friday night, 11 o'clock, let me swipe right. I'm going to use 20. Someone's going to get back to me if they swipe right and they saw. And typically I would go after an 8.5, 9, but it's Friday night. I'm going to go do a 6.5, 7. No one's going to know. I'm going to buy her back to my place. She knows if she's on Tinder.

I'm not on Bumble, whatever these dating apps are. And so it's transactional. Strategic. No one's going to know. And literally not a lot of people are going to know. You can really run through 20, 40, 50, 100 nowadays. And it's not a big deal. Okay. So what does that do? Whatever's too easy to come, you devalue it. You don't value it that highly. You know, my era, you had to court, you had to prospect, you had to have scripts, you had to build a relationship, you had to follow up.

We didn't have these types of things to do. We had my space. The last time I was single, there was my space. Okay. I DMed my wife on my space. My wife and I knew each other for five and a half years. Eventually, we're in Palm Springs for the first time. She's single, I'm single ever.

For five and a half years, we're both single. And, you know, we go on a date. First date, PF Changs, December 29th of 2007, used to be in PF Chang, used to to be good when they had their noodle soup. They don't have it anymore. They took that away. Phenomenal item on the menu. I'm convinced they fell apart after that.

So anyways, we go to P.F. Changs, by the way, if you're watching, bring it back. It was actually very good item on the menu. So we go on a date, there's magic, she's smiling. I'm smiling. You know the smile that's kind of like I'm happy to see you and Then it's midnight with the last people left at P.F. Changs You know waiter comes up to me and he says what's going on?

I said, you know my wife wants to follow divorce. She doesn't want to be with me anymore. So your wife why? Yeah, I come from a different religious background and her family's convinced we got to split up and he has no clue We're not married. We're just on our first date. He sits down for 15 minutes convincing her to stay with me. If you love him, stay with him. It was a beautiful scene that we have. We go in the car, she goes home the next day I take her. We go do stairs in Santa Monica.

We go to church, we go to Earth Cafe in Santa Monica. And we go to borders. I buy her a book on our second date called 101 Questions to Ask Before You Get Engaged on our second date called 101 questions to ask before you get engaged on our second date by Norman Wright. She's like, what's this? I said, I'm not looking for a girlfriend. I'm looking for a wife.

I'm 28 at the time. I said, I know exactly what I want. I've already done the sex or set with three other girls. If you want to go through it great, you need to answer the questions. Let's meet up when you're ready. And let's go through it. Weak later, six hours at her place. One by one by one, each question we go through. I said, this is somebody I can date. And by the way, it's ugly because you got to talk about everything

in a book. So today, that's not it anymore. Today it's too risky. Today it's, you don't have access to that anymore. Today percentages are coming out where marriages from dating sites have the least chance of working out versus marriages where you meet somebody through referral Where you say pat I've known Mary for seven years. I think you and her should talk not know what's gonna happen Let me set you guys up. Let's take our girls and do a double day cool Hey, I kind of like her. This is good, but you're telling me seven years. I've only seen her be with one guy Larry Five years. He was an asshole then she's been with us other guy two years, but she's single now now I have some kind of a history on dealing with right so it is a different climate now with kids it's a different story on how you raise them my 10 year old son he's he's been he's had a girlfriend since he was five years old literally a birthday party at five

years old he's making out with this other girl at this David Buster's. I'm like, babe, what is going on? Mom is asking me, you know, our kids are kissing. I said, well, I got a son. You got a daughter. You may want to stop your daughter, but I'm not going to stop my son. So she's like, well, guys, guys, no, stop, stop. They don't even know what's going on. So there's, you need to have the conversation with kids early today. I remember having a conversation with my boys when they were six and five in the shower and I said, okay, we need to have this conversation together. What's that? Okay, stand up. That's your dangling. That says dangling. This is my dangling. Only you get to play with your dangling. One day, you're going to find a girl that's going to play with your dangling. Till then, God gave you that dangling for only

you to play with your dangling. Now, you got to see how they're looking to be by the way. They're looking at me like this and my wife leaves quickly. She's like, baby, this is on gossip, baby, you can leave. So we have that conversation. I think you need to have the conversation today because most parents are on Middle Eastern. They don't have those types of conversations. No one's talking about sex and condoms and all this kind of stuff.

You need to start early, but the dating scene today, very, very different than what it was when I was single. If I wanted to go day today and find a wife, my approach would be very different than what most people are doing today. Very different. We'll get back to talking to Patrick in one minute, but first I need to tell you about Shopify.

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And once you've reached your audience, Shopify has the internet's best converting checkout to help you turn browsers into buyers. If you are someone who is looking to start a business online, Shopify is the only place to go. They are a one stop shop to create your business. So if you're looking to take your business to the next level, you can sign up for a one dollar per month trial period right now by going to the link in the description below or heading to shopify.com slash modern wisdom in all lower case that shopify.com slash modern wisdom. You say to be impressed by the right things,

and you just suggested it that as well. What are the right things? What should people be impressed by? In what area? In relationship? No, in life. In life. What is it that people are miscellaneously being impressed

by that they shouldn't be? So your guy, Chase, right? Wherever Chase is, okay, right there. And then where's Dean? Where's Dean? Dean is in a back. Okay, you're telling and then your where's Dean? Where's Dean? Dean is in the back. Okay, you're telling me about Dean and what Dean does. He's been with you two years, three years,

four years, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two,

two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, What does that say about you? A lot. Okay. With somebody who works with you for six years, what are they gonna learn about you? Your temper, your expectation. Hey, boys, are we ready?

This is all standard and expectation that you have. That is a reflection of he likes working with you. Why does he like working with you? I don't know, but you do something right for him to want to work with you. And then you tell me what you're doing with him, structure that's private stuff that you told me. So you watch people, you watch values, principles, you watch how they treat people, you watch how

people treat them, you watch how people respond to them, you watch how they are with powerful people, you watch how they are with regular average day-to-day people. You look for that. Today it's not the cars, the lambo, the Ferrari's, the houses, all that stuff. By the way, I'm a capitalist and I love all that stuff. But I like that stuff because different reasons. I enjoy the game. I'm a kid.

I'm turning 45 tomorrow. I'm 44 today for the last day tomorrow. I'll be 45. But there's an element of childlike stuff that brings out The 14-year-old kid when I look at a baseball card. I'm a kid when I look at a baseball card Yeah, every person's like who cares about baseball cards. That's a different element, but the relationships the way they treat people values and principles what they value you look for those types of things and principles, what they value, you look for those types of things. And eventually enough will be revealed the more you pay attention.

That's one of the byproducts, I think, that is dangerous sometimes of people who play the game, that they get captured by the game, and they forget that it is a game. And they see the game as reality. They don't realize that there is something which is supposed to be deep, but which is hidden below the surface. So I did Rogan's show last year, and I listened back to the episode. He said something on it that I really wanted to dig into, and he listened back and pulled this,

this really, really powerful insight for me, it was one of the most powerful things I learned last year. And he said, just because something is hard to obtain does not mean that it is valuable. Just because something is hard to obtain doesn't mean it's valuable. Correct. Yeah, just because it's difficult to get doesn't mean that it's valuable. Look at the car he's driving, look at the watch he's wearing, look at the girl he's with. These things were hard to obtain, so you presume that they were valuable, but you didn't realize

that what's genuinely valuable are friendships and relationships and comfort and a confidence in yourself and peace of mind and sanity and being able to positively impact the people around you. So it got me thinking, I've been really sort of reflecting on this over the last year and I did some research into the history of the pineapple. So 1492 Christopher Columbus lands on the island of Guadalupe and for the first time ever a Westerner sees a pineapple.

You look at it and it's kind of a royal fruit that's got this stupid crown on its head, and he writes in his journal, he describes the taste of a pineapple. If you've never had a pineapple before, blow your head off. If you haven't got processed. I remember the first time I had a pineapple. It's so sweet. It's insane. Anyway, they take a shipload literally back to the Prince of Spain, Prince Aragon II, take this entire shipler back, one of them makes it that isn't rotten, and the Prince is allowed to eat it. And again, it almost gets this sort of mythical quality to the pineapple. Very quickly, the British, quite rightly so, they start to see it as this symbol of opulence, right? They see it as this symbol of opulence, right?

They see it as this symbol of wealth. So they would parade pineapples around at dinner on a platter, and they would use them over and over and over again. You could rent a pineapple for the evening. This is the sort of house in which you might be able to see a pineapple, right? Castles had pineapple statues on the top of them. There would be fountains with pineapples at the front of someone's estate. All of this occurred because of the scarcity of a pineapple. It was £8,000 to get one pineapple. Wow, right. That was the equivalent.

Back then, £8,000. It was a symbol of privilege and opulence and wealth. And what it meant was that people really looked up to this one object. Then the French, couple of hundred years later, they invent greenhouses, and that allows us to grow tropical fruits at higher climates, higher latitudes, price drops, and guess what? No one starts parading the pineapple around anymore.

The scarcity of it was largely determining the value of it. And that story and what I called Rogan's value difficulty conflation, just because something is hard to obtain does not mean that it is valuable. Now I would argue that a pineapple is valuable no matter how hard it is, it's like a dialed fruit no matter how difficult it is to get a hold of. But I really love that insight because I think that it shows how non-valuable but difficult to obtain things get slipped into our desires. I see that particular expensive possession that intrinsically I don't actually care about. Maybe I've never been a watch guy.

Maybe I've never been a shoes guy. Maybe I've never been a shoes guy. Maybe I've never been a car guy. But I want it. I want it, it's hard to get. Okay, well, what if there is a quicker route toward fulfillment? What if there is a more direct path? Because there are some people out there for whom keeping up with the Joneses and materialism

is an inbuilt part of their life. But I can say as someone that doesn't have that bone in my body particularly, that for me material possessions, they don't make a massive difference to my quality of life. I like nice things. I like to fly business. I like a nice house and blah, blah, blah. But there's people who are tuned into that, right? Maybe it's their upbringing, their genetic predisposition, whatever, whatever, whatever. But I think that people should be very cautious. Why is it that I'm chasing this thing? Am I chasing this thing because it's something which is valuable? Am I chasing it simply because it's something that's difficult to get?

Yeah, that's a, by the way, very good story. And a great quote, I remember in Iran, pineapple is on anus. That's how we say it. We say on anus. And anybody in Iran who had pineapple, you were rich. Two things, pineapple and banana. Any run. Only rich people have pineapple in them.

Two good fruits. Yeah, two good fruits. And then I go to Germany and bananas are everywhere But the first time I had pineapple I had it in the states. I couldn't believe we were having pineapple I thought we were rich when we had pineapple. I said mom, are we finally ready? We made it. We made it. We retired on a pineapple. Yeah, I was on an awesome number. I was in Ninth grade first time ever we went and ate at Sizzlers. I thought we had made it.

I'm like, guys, you will not believe what restaurant, I don't know if you know Sizzlers, but Sizzlers in the US is not a fancy restaurant. I thought we made it because we ate at Sizzlers. Yeah, you know what I'd say? I used to think, and you know, this whole concept of people who are too much about fancy things.

It's kind of like, well, look at this guy. All he cares about is money. All he cares about is fancy things. All he cares about is these cars and life of the rich and famous and all this other stuff. Eventually, I realize not everybody is driven by the same thing. All I care about that's something that drives you. Okay, my old son could care less. You know what he wants for a car?

His favorite car? A Jeep. That's his dream car. You know what he wants for a car? His favorite car a Jeep That's his dream car. My daughter says I want a white Ferrari Okay, and I said who do you think is gonna buy that for you? Well daddy? You're gonna buy us. I'm not buying you a white for you You're gonna buy yours up a white Ferrari Dylan wants a complete different car my old this son. You know what you know what is Absolutely a great day for him outside in the dirt plain with lizards catching animals

plain with dogs and cats That's an incredible day. By the way, he's been like that since eight months nine months My youngest son 10 years old first time I take him to my barber to get a haircut and One of the girls at this place. They give massages at the end when he get the haircut. My oldest son says, don't touch my back. Don't touch me, he would go like this. He's like, don't know that. I don't tell her, do not touch me, right?

But my 10 year old son, it was five at the time. She's like, can you also massage me over here? Oh, he likes to find the things in life. To find her things in life, right? My oldest son loves dogs, he loves animals. My youngest son, don't get on my bed. Get off my bed. My oldest son wants a dog right next to him. The youngest son doesn't want any of the dogs next to him. And his dad loves dogs. I love animals, right? So I'm not, you know, I think Joe specializes in

doing the hard. If there's anybody that specializes in doing the hardest, Joe, you kid me like Joe's enamored by doing the hard, but also Joe's learned to be so self-aware of himself, to know what he likes. I said, Joe, what do you think about sports? Is I know nothing about sports, I don't want sports. The only thing I watch is UFC. Joe, now that you're getting all these eyeballs,

what's your vision? What if we can do this, Pat? The only thing I want to do is I just want to do podcasts. I want to go hunt. I want to be my family. I want to do UFC. the only thing I want to do is I just want to do podcasts. Yeah, I want to go hunt I want to be my family. I want to do you have seen this is all I want to do the level of clarity He has of where he's at Props to him now Dana white Slightly different

Dana's not worth a few hundred say he's a worth a half a billion honors today Why is he still driving? Why is he still pushing? Why is he still competing? Why is he still wanting to be number one? Who's his enemy? He drives running nice cars likes to go to the casino likes to be around with people haven't found late night Two different dynamics two different personalities look at the organization they book with you I mean thinking of someone who chooses their enemies tactically Dana is not someone who shy of a fight He loves it, you know, if you were to think of a C-suite level fighter, Dana White is pretty well. And you've spent a good bit of time sort of orbiting that whole crew of people. What have you learned from your insights about the UFC and

sort of what that says about Dana? Oh, listen, what I'm about to say about Dana is some people are not going to like it, but I'm going to say it anyways. UFC is what UFC is because of Dana White. You can sit there and talk about all these fighters and yeah, but you know, if it wasn't for this guy, if it wasn't for that guy, if it wasn't for what this person did and that probably get it. Listen, different players come and go, right? Totally understand.

Dana has made it about the sport. He never made it about the fight. He never made it about one fighter. He is very quick to call out anybody. It doesn't matter if it's the number one guy in the league, you'll call him out, John Jones. He'll call out Connor if he screws up, but he'll back him up to the highest level.

He'll say that was some stupid shit he did. He'll sit there straight up, tell you what he likes, what he doesn't like. But everybody learned during COVID, he was the number one commissioner in all of sports, every commissioner in America caved, NBA caved, NFL caved, MLB Caved, every commissioner Caved, except for one guy who had brass balls called Dana White who said, I don't give a shit, we're going to find a place to do the fight. So during COVID, you know, it's the only sport the world watched. We watched UFC. No one's watching a freaking football game with no fans out there in cardboard. What am I going to do with cardboard?

Oh, no, we're going to watch. Hey, you can buy this seat for your face to be on the basketball game. Who gives a shit? It was the most boring finals, Lakers, whatever. There shouldn't even deserve to have won that final. There was no audience, nobody. Boone against you.

But everybody realized, here's Dana as a commissioner, then as everybody else. You're not at his level. He's a wartime leader as well as a peacetime leader. He's learned how to balance and brush. He's moving together. He said something in an interview. It says, listen man, maybe it's just a fact that I'm getting old

and I'm getting soft, but I have a hard time seeing what's going on with some of these guys. And you know, in the way his personal life when he went through that crisis and the way he put it, he says, you want me to be embarrassed? How much more embarrassed do you want me to be? You know how embarrassing it is to talk to my wife and my kids?

You know how embarrassing that is? This is nothing compared to how embarrassing to have to face my kids. You respect that, you love that. There's a degree of clarity, especially to Dana, that is very rare. And I think that one of the things that UFC's done is make boxing particularly feel so antiquated

and pedestrian. And the fact that KSI almost speed Tommy Fury, you know how bad that would have been for boxing? That's not good. That's not good. But KSI does not represent UFC either. He doesn't, but what would have happened if a YouTuber would have beaten a professional boxer

with a last name of Fury, it's humiliating. Correct. Many people would have said he could have won on the points, but... What was it that you said? You made some comparison about jockeys and horses to do with Dana White. Yes, I made the analysis with Elon Musk, where you had to bet on the... The singles with Dana White as well. Yeah, yeah. So you got the Jackie and the horse, okay. You got Dana White is the Jackie, the horse is UFC. Elon Musk is the Jackie. Tesla is the horse, okay.

So if tomorrow Elon Musk resigned from Tesla, Tony do Twitter, what happens to Tesla? It's gonna be disturbing for a lot of investors because a lot of people bought Tesla because it's Elon Musk. A lot of people are selling Tesla and getting rid of their cars like AOC. It's Elon Musk.

It's Elon Musk ever since he bought Twitter. Double-edged sword. Yeah, it's a double-edged sword. But to me, in a perfect world is if you can have both I think you have seen a great product Phenomenal product a dicting product okay viral product But Dana White is an incredible Jackie do you remember someone brought up? I think it was Israel Adesanya had been using the N word and

It's at the press conference. I mean, it must be fun for the press, you know, to sit down and Dana sits down and goes, all right, guys, what's going on? The gate tonight was da da da da da, we broke this. He would have fired at the night. And then he just looks up and someone asks him a question. And he just says what he thinks. You know, he doesn't say something that the media team has prepped him on. Although I'm share he's got training and he understands the boundaries, but nothing feels prescribed, manufactured, conceited, nothing contrived, nothing feels like that. It just feels like this is what the guy thinks. Someone, I saw this on the internet, someone had talked about many organizations and YouTubers at the moment are trying to speed run authenticity. They're trying to growth hack relatability.

How can I make myself seem more authentic and relatable than I actually am? Obviously, it's kind of a self-defeating prophecy, which is that the only way to be authentic is to be authentic. And there's a degree of trust. I mean, Dana, dude, the start of this year was rough for him. That him and his misses got into a scuffle and it got videoed and it was maybe like New Year's Eve or something like, oh, January 1st, guess I was starting 2020 for the worst way possible. And he comes out and you have faith that you go, yeah, this guy meant what he said. I don't think that there's any demons lurking in the closet

because I may regret saying that at some point in future, but I don't think that there's any demons looking in the closet because I may regret saying that at some point in future, but I don't think that I'm going to need to because I just have faith that I'm not a Dana Whitech. I don't have stock in Dana White. I just I'm a good judge of character and I see in him someone that seems to tell the truth more often than not and seems to be very open and honest and own his mistakes and people love that. People really, really like that. So yeah, it makes him incredibly likable.

Authenticity at the highest level. That brand is a very authentic brand. He said his enemies, he said the people that have challenged him and given him a hard time, but Dana in a past life could have been a gangster. Maybe he was, but he could have been a gangster. He could have ran a family. That's how Dana is.

He could have been, he's, Dana is almost not a mob boss, you know, of a Gambino family or a Genovi's or Colombo. Dana is more the guy that ran the commission like a Luciano. That's Dana. And to be that guy, there is no book you can read to be that you can read 40 lots of power a hundred times, you can't be that guy. You either are that guy, you're not that guy. Big boss energy. Dana is that guy. Dana is that guy. One of your quotes is when you're winning, you're not as good as you think you

are. When you're losing, you're not as bad as you think you are. What's that mean to you? Both of them lie. Both of them exaggerate it. Both of them are when you're winning, everybody is telling you how amazing you are. Oh my God, let me tell you, you know what, you're the best, you're amazing. You're just better than that guy and you're better than this guy. You're amazing. You're just better than that guy, and you're better than this guy. And it always takes me back to that quote of Marcus Aurelius who had a slave that would sit behind them and always whisper to him,

hey, you're just a man. You're just a man. You're just a man. That's right, 40 laws of power, right? You're just a man, you're just a man, you're just a man. And then he would get up and he became the best emperor of what, 62 AD to to 69 whatever the time is and He becomes so he becomes and we read about him now, you know

You pick up the book meditations. You're like this is like mandatory reading for anybody What is this all about right? You know simple book not that big you can read the public assumption No, it's not it's not and you're you're going through it saying, what was this about? Then you Google, what did he mean by this? Wow. I don't think about it that way. So and when you're losing Everybody tells you I told you shouldn't have done that. I knew you were not gonna make it Yeah, I told you it wasn't for you. You weren't that guy and you believe that as well So both of them are lying. For me politically,

politically, I'm a capitalist, hardcore capitalist. I fully am a capitalist to the core. I think the free market will create solutions to problems. I think the free market is going to filter out all the fakers in pharma, in finance, in podcasting, in sports, in real estate, in insurance, it takes two decades, but it will filter people out. It's not, it's got zero sympathy for you. It doesn't care to be friend. You can give capitalism as many compliments as you want. He doesn't feel it.

He has no emotions. You can't flatter capitalism. All he's interested in is results. Are you good enough? Can you ask? Can you recreate yourself? Great. But when it comes on to politics, I want to hear both sides.

Okay, I'm a Christian, but I held a podcast four weeks ago. I brought two Muslims and I brought two Christians and I had them go at it for two hours, discussion. Because my conversation was more about, okay, if we agree on seven different things, we disagree on seven different things. But you agree on 23 different things. Can we figure out a way to make this work? Why do you feel the way you do? Why do you feel the way you do? And they go back and forth and your sinners say, okay, interesting.

Today, Israel, Palestine, with what's going on with Hamas, complicated, lots of issues. On one end, the question is where pro-Israel, where folks are going back and forth, I'm a pro-Israel guy. I'm from Iran. When I lived in Iran for 10 years, Iran was safer when Res up Al-Ali was there because they were strong and they had allies with everybody, and Israel was safe. The Middle East was saved. You could go and say, you know what Patrick, next week,

you know where I'm going? Where are you going? I'm going to Tehran Iran. Because Frank Sinatra's performing there, I'm gonna do a podcast with Frank Sinatra. I said, you're doing a podcast with Frank Sinatra in Tehran Iran's sick. You would have been able to say that in 76, in 75.

So the Middle East was fairly peaceful, not perfect, but it was peaceful. But at the same time, you know, you got to ask the question, how did Israel with the best intelligence, Masad, not know that for one year Hamas was training for this? How did you not know that they wouldn't build a city similar to the one that you haven't trained on how to break into homes and take hostages? You didn't know that? You really didn't know that.

And intelligence gave you a report from here, from Egypt, but you didn't know that. It's a fair question to ask, but when he asked that question, guess what people say? What kind of a question is that? This is not the time to ask that question. Do you realize what they're doing to kids? I don't support it.

I'm not supporting any of that stuff. Then I got another question because Palestinians said, that's exactly right. This was intentional by Israel. They know what I asked Palestinians, and they also don't like this question. Here's a question. If you're so peaceful, who knows more about Palestinians?

Us, who live in America or UK or your neighbor, if you live in a condo or if you live in a house and you've been living in this house for five years or 10 years, you have a neighbor on this side, you have a neighbor on this side. You know, when they do barbecues, you know, how much they drink, you know, who in which end loss comes in, you know,

the son when he sneaks in the girlfriend at one o'clock in the morning, you know, the daughter when she sneaks out and changes her skirt and gets into a car with that bad boy and goes out and does what she does and she comes back at four o'clock, you know your neighbors, you see all their mess, Kai. If Palestine and Gaza is filled with so many peaceful people, why is Egypt not taking them as refugees to go to Egypt? Egypt knows a lot about you. Why is it only 800 people? Why are they not letting a million people come to you? So somebody

may say, what a shameful question for you to ask. How dare you ask the question? I think both questions need to be asked. What you do with it is up to you, Kai. So for me, this whole concept of when you're winning, don't believe the hype, when you're winning, don't believe the hype, when you're losing, don't believe the hype. Whatever story even your own side is saying, why don't you be skeptical? It'll have been a question for yourself and see if you can entertain both ideas. I want to find ways to entertain both ideas as much as possible because I find myself becoming sharper when I do that and I eliminate blind spots. Anytime I'm 100% one-side, I have way too many blind spots.

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using the form on that page to get $500 off their apex membership. That's fountainlife.com slash modern wisdom. Do you think that we're obliged to have a take on everything? Because I haven't got involved in the Israel-Palestine conflict. And there's a lot of people that are very unhappy. The silence is violence, crowd. Your silence is deafening. Why haven't you come out in support

or against this group or that group? Is it an obligation for us all to have a take on everything? If the background has to do anything with you, I think you are obligated to talk about it. Meaning if you're Jew, I think you have to. If you're Palestinian, you have to. If you're a Muslim, I think you have to, because it's your community, it's your pride,

it's your background. If you're a political show, and if spoken about Ukraine and Russia, and you've touched that topic, why are you not touching this topic? Now, I don't know if you have. If you're audience. No, no, no, no to all of the above.

Then guess what that means? Then you're consistent. So no, you don't have to. If you've been consistent with all of it, you don't have to talk about it. That's not what the show is about. You could simply say, you wanna hear that show? Go to Ben Shapiro. Well, what people are saying, they're not saying why haven't you commented,

specifically what they're saying is what they want. What they're saying is why haven't you said the thing that supports the stance that I want it to have for each of them? No, why happen? The list of... Why haven't I commented on at all? I mean I mean, there's a lot of events in the world that if you and I have to comment on all of them, we don't have a life. You would have to do 12-hour podcasts to cover everything on a daily basis. No.

But this is a once in 50 years type of crisis that could lead to a World War III. Numbers came yesterday where Ray Dalio, I don't know if you've sat down with Ray Dalio. Okay, so you know who Ray Dalio is, he's a 20 billion dollar man, built an incredible company. I had him on as well. Ray Dalio, yesterday, said, the chance of World War Three is officially at 50%. And Jamie Diamond yesterday said, these are the most dangerous times we're living in decades. Okay.

So one may say, well, you get tens of millions of eyeballs. You're no longer somebody that gets back in the days, your first show when you did, were 220 people watching a mom and dad didn't watch it. You're siblings that are watching, best friends that are watching. No, now you're getting. Well, that's the interesting question, right? Whether somebody with a sufficiently large platform is obligated to comment on things simply because they have a large platform. And you ask why, whether I have and why I haven't, if I haven't, I found out about the incidents that we're going on in the Middle East, on Twitter two days after they happened. And I wondered why hammers was trending. And I thought,

what the fuck's hammers? Oh, fuck, that's Hamas. That was two days after everything had happened. By this time, I'd already had texts from people saying, dude, like, are you gonna get, are you gonna do an episode on this? And I was like, bro, the requisite amount of understanding for me to be able to add an educated opinion to this topic is not one that I have time to do. I mentioned to you, early on, we've been traveling,

we were in LA, we were there for two days, all I did, all I've done for the last week is travel, sleep, research and record. And I've researched very specific guests, I haven't been researching stuff about the Middle East, right? So that's all I've had time to do. Is it not the precise problem that people who do not know what they're talking about have given cod psychology insights way outside of their domain of expertise and just added to the noise rather than adding to the signal. And yet, there is a group of people on the internet that would say, no, but this is so important to me that it's something that should move aside the other things that

you're doing in life. And I think a final element of this is people who are chronically online cannot understand what it's like to not be chronically online. I am chronically online for periods. And then I am chronically traveling around and researching and recording and going from hotel to hotel, coming out to Florida. This is one of those periods during which there's a lot of reading that needs to be done done to make a comment, to contribute to something that lots of people who are better educated than me can do. It's the same reason I didn't comment on COVID. COVID was something that was happening.

We did a couple of episodes explaining how we felt people could better work from home, some mental health tools that we thought that they could use, some strategies that they could do to improve their time blocking and some stuff like that. Here's how we would design your homework station. I'm like, if you want me to comment and just throw horseshit at the wind, I can do it, but I don't think that it's going to benefit anything. So yeah, there's this compulsion, this obligation, I think, that certain groups

on the internet feel anybody that comments on things should get themselves involved with. And it's just... Are you surprised? No, no, no. Because what they want, but again, they don't want you to comment. They want you to support that side. No, that's a different story.

That's a different story. There's a difference between commenting and supporting, right? I'm not, if I comment, I'm giving you my thoughts. And I'm going to share with you my opinion, thoughts on my life experience, on what I think is going on. And then from there, agree or disagree. For the people who are asking you to contribute, if your thoughts and your life experience led you to implicate one side rather than the other, sound like you were being more generous

to one side rather than the other, they would very quickly say, I wanted you to comment, but I didn't want you to say that. They would very quickly have an issue with. What is that your brand, is your brand of 700 episodes, 2,500 clips, is your brand given opinion on current events? Have you done that in the past?

Because here's what happened. So in the market, you know how in Hollywood, they say this guy's a triple threat. What's a triple threat? Act sing dance, okay? In podcasting, there's also triple threats. Okay. What's a triple threat? A great interviewer, which you are. But that's one of three. Two is perspective and opinion, which Jorogin is. People want to hear what Jor has to say about this. And then three is entertain.

Can you entertain me while you're giving me your perspective or asking questions where I'm kind of like, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, man, I was funny as hell. So Joe, the reason why Joe is number one is because Joe's great host, we want to hear his perspective, agree or disagree. He has the, he has the conviction and the confidence to give a side and be willing to change. Hey, one minute, you're voting for Bernie Sanders. Four years later, you're saying to save America, you got a vote for Trump and Republican. What? What are you talking about? Right? So then three is he entertains you. He makes you laugh. Your brand, you have

to take the risk whether you wanna go to two. I don't think you need to comment on absolutely everything. If Joe was to be asked what do you think of Aaron Rodgers most recent Achilles rupture, as you said earlier on. But they run out, that's not a, but there's a different story with that. You asked about consistency earlier on. You train Russia, didn't comment on COVID,

didn't comment on. That's your brand then. But by the way, what you just said is your perspective. Absolutely, but it's a meta perspective on what's going on. You're not going to please everybody. They'll look, I'm Armenian and Assyrian. Okay, so I was born in Iran. So here's where I'm screwed.

I'm a half Armenian, half Assyrian born in Iran, and I'm an American. Okay. So, for the enforcement of the apocalypse. Oh my God. So whenever something happens with Armenian genocide, I have to within a second comment on it. Okay. And I do, but now within a second, because I don't have intel. So when you're talking about your days, what it looks like, research, all that stuff, you're telling the truth. But I'm running nine companies, and I got a wife, and I got four kids, and I'm transitioning with another company,

and I'm doing research on a podcast, and I'm doing the interviews, and I'm running wife and I got four kids and I'm transitioning with another company and I'm doing research on a podcast and I'm doing the interviews and I'm running a tech startup and I'm running a consulting firm with clients that are traveling worldwide to come to us and I'm doing our best to kind of see what's going on with stories. Yeah, there's gonna be days you just don't have time and the audience can't understand it,

can not understand it, right? That's the decision they got to make. So, Assyrians, hey, did you see what happened at that theater? When are you going to come in at this wedding that just took place and a hundred people were dead? And if a place caught on fire and these, okay, great. Let me get some intel and then I'll comment on it. And then I did, you know, or Iran or, you know, but, but the natural part where I would take it as a compliment is the audience is leaning on you to see how you would

assess this issue and they trust the way you reason. And nowadays there's not enough people who are able to reason to give a different perspective because they simply don't trust mainstream media. But then the next step is do you want to take the risk of going in that side? If your brand is not on COVID, not on Ukraine, not on this, then you're staying consistent. I think largely the main lesson I learned, I learned this from Douglas Murray, is that there are a lot of people in the online space who do not have expertise within a particular domain and have it in another one. They have expertise within psychology or climate change or whatever it might be. And then they start thinking to themselves, well, why shouldn't my thoughts on the Ukraine

be important to people? What everybody thinks that my insights about climate change are absolutely wonderful. And they start to get out over the skis outside of their domain of competence. If you want to talk about my domains of competence, I'll comment on it. For me, there are people out there who are capable, prepared to do the work, have the time, and have the expertise. I don't think that the internet needs more noise. I think it needs more signal, and I would be contributing nothing short of noise if I

did that. I'm also just not passionate about learning about this topic, and I understand that in order for me to give the for me to meet the bar of evidence and insight that I would want to to feel proud about my opinion, I need to be passionate about it, right? I need to be compelled to learn about it. I learn about life. Of course I am. Would you like to live 200 years old? Yes. Okay. So do many of your listeners because the feedback you give has to do with living a great life because people are watching the life you're living. The only thing I would encourage you to consider from the audience side is this is a different crisis. This crisis, if reasonable people like you can find a way to lower the overreaction that people are having with everything

that's out there, I would say you would actually contribute to lowering the overreaction community. So I'm simply complimenting you to consider the fact that people are looking to see how a reasonable person like you that can give a logical perspective, because that's what's missing today. And when a Ray Dalio, when a Jamie Diamond, when many of these guys are saying 50% and you with your millions of people who listen to you can, and it's not a niche audience where it's in one country or two countries, your audience is worldwide, 100 plus countries, you got people listen to you. in one country or two countries. Your audience is worldwide, 100 plus countries. You got people listening to you. I think maybe from that level, the feedback from the audience could be, this is not a regular issue. We'd like to hear your thoughts. And then whether you choose

to do it or not, it's your prerogative, and we move on. Yeah, you've got a, you mentioned there about this sort of loss of faith in our institutions, right? The previous gatekeepers, the people that we would have relied on to tell us what, what in the world? What do you think about this rising skepticism? There is also a degree of conspiratorial thinking, heterodox cynicism around what we're being told. Is this leaving a vacuum where people's uncertainty is making their lives worse? What is going to happen from a sense-making? How do people make sense of the world when we can't trust the information communicators? Well, that's the that's why they want to hear from you. So what you're

saying is, is validating their point. So in America today, we are at the lowest levels we've ever been for Americans trusting mainstream media and trusting the government, not one or the others, the lowest in both. We don't trust the government, we don't trust mainstream media. The last time the people trusted mainstream media and the government, the highest was right before Kennedy died. After that, that was at 72%. It's gone from 72, 65, 60 down to today, 27%. People simply don't trust the mainstream media to give feedback on what's really taking place. There's a reason why Rogan gets more eyeballs on his show than all these guys combined. And people are watching to see what he has to say. There's a reason why Shapiro

gets the eyeballs, he gets. There's a reason why you get the eyeballs. There's a reason why all these other guys get the eyeballs. It's because they won't hear a different perspective. You know, we're going back to the story where you know in this quote's been criticized many times. It's not really true. You know, Amateurs built you know, professionals built a Titanic. Amateurs built the arc, you know, this whole story that they go back and forth. You know, professionals build a Titanic, amateur's build the arc, you know, this whole story that they go back and forth. Professional's run mainstream media, amateur's run podcasting.

But the world is trusting amateur's running podcasting more than the people that build a Titanic. Because a lot of people think mainstream media is about to sink like the Titanic dick. Now, with it did or not, who knows? But people want to talk to somebody, just a regular guy, say, what's your story? What do you think about this? What are your

thoughts on this? Do you really agree? Do I? Does anybody else feel, I kind of feel that wise? Well, I'm a little bit skeptical. I'm a little bit worried about this. What's going on? Is it really as big as they make it out to be? Should I trust these guys? Should I'm not surprised as it's taking place? By the way, you know, what's the only thing that's keeping mainstream media in business? It's only a couple things that keep mainstream media in business. Number one is 75 year olds, 70 75 year olds are keeping mainstream media in business, okay?

So that's another 10 to 15 years before that generation is no longer here. That audience has gone. Number two is Big Pharma. If two countries in a world that allow big pharma companies to advertise its US and New Zealand, every other country in the world you cannot advertise. The only two countries in the world where pharmaceutical companies like Pfizer that can advertise is US and New Zealand. Everywhere else there is no commercials on TV. Do you realize what would happen if a president did an executive order, got Congress, everybody in it to say, moving forward, big pharma can no longer advertise on mainstream

media. You know what happens the next day? Every one of them goes out of business and all these talented guys at ESPN or at CNN or Fox or ABC that are getting the 5, 10, 15, 20 million dollar contract. Gone. 80% of revenue's gone. And a lot of these guys and they have to go and try to make it in the world that you're making it. And this is all what you're doing. It's hard.

There's not a teleprompter behind me. There's nobody whispering in your ears what to say. Follow up with this question. This is all you doing, right? To them, hey, ask him this. Follow up with this. We just found data. 63%. He's lying, follow up with this, we just found data, 63%. He's lying.

Follow up with this. Did you watch any of the late night hosts when they tried to do a podcast between them? Yes. What did you think from a professional, a amateur professional perspective? There's a reason why they can't do anything without writers. You know, they, I mean, don't give me rock. To me, Fallon is a very talented guy, a very talented guy. And you're not gonna get to that job without having talent. These guys got a lot of talent. They're workers, but the moment writers are done, you mean to tell me for May 12th? You guys can't do an episode until what?

October, which they just started with two weeks ago. You realize writers control this world. Now, the writers are worried that Chad GBT can write the jokes of what's going on and what if AI can pop out these, you know, jokes and what could take place. No, this game is a very, very hard game. This is not an easy game.

Think about what Spotify did. What other president in the last 20 years has been as popular as Obama? And let me get to straight. Obama and another guy named Bruce Springston started a podcast and Spotify drops him. What? Who else has been more popular in the last 20 years on television than Kim Kardashian with 300 million followers on Instagram? Spotify signs a podcast with her Dende Dropper. What? Who else has been more on TV and every magazine newspaper

than Harry and Megan, but Spotify dropped their podcast and hasn't fully, it's like we're not renewing the contract. And then they give Rogan a few hundred. Wait, what? So let me get to straight just be in famous doesn't help to have a podcast. No, wow. I thought it was just about fame. No, this is hard. This is an art. This is very difficult to do. It's not easy to do. So if mainstream media sinks like the Titanic, 90% of that talent is going to disappear and they're not going to know what to do. 90% of them. It's not an easy again. Does this mean, does this contribute to complicity or those commentators and all of the other people whose wages ultimately are paid for by those adverts? Does this create a perverse incentive for them?

In what way? That they may be prepared to compromise something they truly think to not jeopardize the people that ultimately pay their wages, that there is a risk to them saying something out of turn which may. I mean, are you really asking that question, or you know the answer to that question?

You already know the answer, you're smart guy. Yeah. Now of course, they have to, they don't have a choice to take that position, right? I'll give you an idea. Chris Cuomo was on CNN for God knows how many years. And he was a number one guy for two or three years. What does CNN do to Chris? Firet his brother, Andrew Cuomo governor fired. And then he's got a hundred and twenty five million dollar pending lawsuit against CNN and now CNN Folks can't talk to Chris Adam on the podcast and For the longest time Cuomo was hated by a lot of people on the right

Absolutely hated because of the stuff you would say where is Jesus as Jesus gonna come and save you would covet What's Jesus gonna do for you and all this stuff you would say right? well He came on a podcast and right? Well, he came on a podcast and I'm with one of my partners in Dallas. He's a billionaire himself in the insurance, but he's the number one power player in insurance, where at his office, corner office in the time, one of the sickest offices you'll see in your life, like 68 floors, overlooking all of Dallas. Brian, and he says, you know, it's kind of weird watching Cuomo on your podcast. I said, why? He says, he sounded different.

You know, those moments where I kind of liked them when I was watching this. And this is not a guy I can say something like that with. You know what I mean? People said that. What happened to him? He's now a free agent. He's got a shirt he sells that's called free agent. He's got a podcast that says, you know, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, with something Cuomo project that he's got a podcast that says, you know, you know, what's something

quomo project that he's got a podcast. And how does he dress like you? We're with him a couple of weeks going in what he called it in, uh, uh, sag harbor in up in, uh, that entire area, whatever that area is, I forget the name, uh, sagaponics, sag harbor, all that stuff. And we'll go to his house, my kids are running on the back, he's a Pat, somebody wants to talk to you. So who's that, FaceTime? It was like this, like, oh shit,

what's up Robert Downey Jr., how you doing? So I'm having a conversation with him, but forget about talking to Robert Downey Jr., I wanted to see my kids' reaction, especially my two reaction, especially my two boys, because my boys, when he died, my kids were devastated when he dies. Ironman dies in, you know, in the... Do you know what today is in the Marvel Cinematic Universe?

Today is the canonical death day of Tony Stark when he clicks his fingers. Today is the day, the date. Get out of here. Today is the date. I did not know that. Today's the day's the day's the date. What does the chance of me bringing up the sword? I don't even know that story.

So I say, Dylan Tico, come here. So Daddy will run around with the dogs. I said, trust me, come here. And Chris turns the camera around. He goes like this. My son goes, oh my God. It's Iron Man. I know you. And then the other son, Tiko, his reaction, Dylan's reaction,

you know, you love Robert Downey's one of those guys that you absolutely love when you go back to his journey. I was talking to about the movie that my dad and I watched 30 years ago only you and the only movie I've ever watched four hours, two hours and two back-to-back in a row was judge. And this is by Robert Downey Jr. What's the moral of the story? The moment Chris Koma was free, and he didn't give a shit, he just kinda told you what he was gonna go through. Would you like it or not? You may not agree with everything,

but he's finally free. A lot of these guys working on mainstream media, they're not free. I mean, now see, tuck his transition. And guess what? He's killing it, okay? Love him or hate him. When Tucker puts on a show, everybody's watching what? He's killing it. Okay. Love him or hate him.

When Tucker puts on a show, everybody's watching what this guy's got to see. So I found out from the guys that light and tech, all of this stuff that we're doing here who understand very, very, very closely what's going on. But it was anamorphic lenses. Is that what they shot Tucker's first thing in his garage with? Yeah. What they shot took us first thing in his garage with? Yeah, so anamorphic lenses, a very particular type of lens, very particular type of shooting, very short wide. So it has the image of, maybe it was his garage or something like that,

or a living room with the background behind him, making a mistake, that is lit and shot in cinema quality, right? With the facade of it being a sort of low budget thing, right? So it's this beautiful... Yeah, it's just beautiful on an iPhone. Yeah, precisely. It's this beautiful blending of both. And that's exciting.

I think it's exciting to see what these guys do. And also, you know, I love this about... Given that we spend so much time talking and people have this concern about whether or not someone's gaming the system, are they trying to growth hack relatability, right, or authenticity? Seeing, I would be lying if I said that I didn't take an amount of pleasure to see late-night hosts that have got massive platforms struggle to hold a conversation together for an hour, over Zoom. Because that is ultimately the battle place of ideas, right? It's not how well can you read a script from a teleprompter. I mean, there is skill, absolutely skill in being able to do

that, and I couldn't. I couldn't do the writing, I couldn't do the performance, I couldn't do the bits and the blah, blah, the music. But largely you are a marionette, right, that's being ventriloquized by a handful of writers and execs. Ultimately seeing what you can do when the gloves are off is more interesting to me. This is very hard. This is very hard because how long is your average podcast?

Hour and a half. OK. So an hour and a half of keeping people's interests with no breaks and nobody talking to you in touching up the makeup, to them, what are you talking about? That is absolutely insane to do something like that. No, this is very hard and the market is proven

that this isn't for everybody. The market is proven, you cannot keep my attention for that long. This is very, very difficult. When people started saying, I'm a higher day marketing expert, 13 years ago, 14 years ago, he came in and said, well, studies have shown. You're making one of the mistakes, you're making on YouTube, your videos are about 12 minutes long. And the only videos that do well is 12 minutes.

After 12 minutes, I said, now man, I'm doing 42 minutes, 28 minutes, hour and 20 minutes. That's a mistake. Number one thing we have to do is no video can go past 13 minutes. Like do it. Okay. And maybe discuss the expertise. Hold this company for a couple million. You know what happened?

The day we fired him 60 days later, our first video goes viral and gets 40 million views. Today it's got a half a billion views. Okay. For the life of an entrepreneur, 90 seconds takes off, right? And we start making other clips and other videos and other stuff. And EC Joe takes it to a whole different level. Three hours. And he got Lex Friedman takes it to a whole different level. Four hours, three hours and 48 minutes, you know, yeah. Well, Lex does. He did seven hours with Bellaji. Gl I'm glad you're here. Glutton for punishment. Yeah, you tweeted something that I thought was quite interesting.

You said, why do so many people who come to the America from other countries with little to no money at all, with in ten years outpace the average person who was born here? What is going on where Americans who have all of the, I'm an immigrant to this country, right? Many people who are given from the very beginning all of the benefits of being from this country. Why is it that they are outpaced by people who weren't born here? So six, seven months ago, I'm sitting with my state planner and one of the fears I have for

the last 10 years is what I'm going to do with my kids with the wealth, with money, am I raising them in a way that they're not going to turn out being the, you know, the snobby, arrogant kid that, you know, still the spoon. Oh, man, I cannot, I never liked those kids in school. Those are the kids I got into fights, but I never liked those kids. So I don't want to raise those types of kids, and then you go and read these books about which families generationally created a wealth that state, like Vanderbilt raised a bunch of snaps. So Vanderbilt's money only lasted one generation.

Generation later, there's no money left. So when you read the story about that Anderson Cooper's of Vanderbilt, but his mother said, even if we are Vanderbilt, don't expect any kind of trust fund. Baby, you ain't got no money here. Nothing's coming over. You got to make your money.

But you look at the Medici family. And what they did, five, six, seven generation. What did they do differently? You look at Rockefeller still has the money. You look at some of these other families that kept the money within the family. What did they do? What did they structure?

And there's a state plan that we can go do, you know, 10, 15, 20, $50,000. Then there's high guys you can hire that's $100,000, $4 million, $1 million. But those are state planters when you hire. You know what they do? They interview your kids. So they go sit down with your kids. And after they talk to you and they'll say, how do you want to set the stuff for the money with your kids? Who gets money? What do they need to do? What's the criteria? Are your kids to get this? What kind of cars do you now want them to buy to waste the money? Who do you want them to work for? What happens with this business? Can they lose all the money? Are you given equally? Here's what this

family and they give you all these suggestions on how to properly set it up. Once you and your wife agree on what you want to do with that wealth, these guys have meetings with all your kids without you there. And they'll record it so you can see how the meeting went, went, but they're setting it up with them. So they'll say, okay, kids, this is on behalf of your parents. Here's a few things you need to know. Number one, the good news is your

parents are very prepared on what they've done with you. And here's what you can get. Your parents have worked very hard and they have made a lot of money. And if you do it right, some of that can be passed over to you. But if you don't, you're not going to get it either. Let me go through some of these criteria. These three things you do, you're not going to get anything. These two things you do, blah, blah, blah, blah. If you do this, here's what's going to happen. This is what they want us to use the money with, and then they kind of break it down to them. Now, you know how many families actually do that?

Very few. Those conversations, most people don't know. Most people are so much about go, go, go, go, go, go, go, and then you die unexpectedly. Oh, we didn't even set up the state planning, let alone the detail of the state planning. No. Okay, now your kids are spoiled, rot and do what they're doing. I've had this conversation with a number of friends, Ben Francis, who was the CEO of Jim Shark,

his net worth is triple Drake's. This is the start of a guy by the way. I've had him on the podcast a couple of years ago, start. Serious to. I was talking to him, and I think that it's the same with you. One of the things that you value the most in your upbringing have been the hard times,

the spit and sawdust, lessons and rules, the school of hard knocks, right? It's given you the work rate that has permitted you to be able to achieve the success that you have and locally reverse entropy, right? So you've been able to wrangle your reality in a way that you wanted to.

And yet, you have worked so hard to be able to wrangle your reality in a way that you wanted to. And yet, you have worked so hard to be able to give your kids opportunities that you never had. And yet, you know that they need to go through the hardships and that those are where the lessons are learned are going to be. This to me seems like a very interesting tension, right? I want to give my kids opportunities with that I've worked so hard for. If I don't, what the fuck was the point in working so hard?

And yet, they need to go through the difficulty, they need to do, how have you found this tension between the two? Well, that's a great question, but I wanna finalize by making a point when you ask the question about, why is it that so many people come to America within 10 years, they have more money

than the people that were born in America? Because unfortunately, the way we've ran America, if the American born kids are kids of these families, they're the kids of the families that spoiled them in America. There's no more earning things in America. It's just handed out to them. We're printing money left and right. We're given away income to people left and right. We're making life easier.

We're incentivizing the wrong things. Do you know in 1940 in America, what percentage of kids were born to single mothers? In 1940, in America, what percentage of kids were born to a single mother who's not married with no father in the household? Four percent is the number. Did you know the number or no?

It's four percent. You know what that number is today? Of a 50. It's over 40 percent. Shia 50 percent. You're right there at the number. You mean to tell me we went from 1944 percent to today, so what happened there? First of all, policies by FDR, social security and incentives

of taking care of single mothers, then Lyndon Johnson in 1965 took it to hold their from level. Mothers are sitting there saying, the more kids I have, the more entitled programs I get. Great, why would I get married? If I get married, I lose those benefits. The incentive programs America set up totally screwed everything up. It incentivized the bad behaviors. Like, tell on a kid, can you imagine if you're in the state planning you say, for every kid you have not married, I'll pay you $700. Whose fault is that? Parents fault.

Bad policies have consequences. Yeah, you create a bad policies. What person in the right state of mind, when they have their wealth, America's a family, it's a corporation, what person in the right mind would incentivize? What parents would incentivize kids to say, I'm gonna have more kids, and I'm gonna give you money out of the living trust.

Nobody in the right mind would do that, but America did. So what happened to us? Now we got all this crime. Now we're paying the price for it because all these years there's no father in there to put them in their place, to challenge them, to straighten them up. That's not in place. That is a missing piece that these kids don't have in America. To me, if we looked

at America as a family, as a corporation, a state planning matters, living trust matters, the right policies matters. Listen, I even think to the point where, you know how in America voting starts at 18 years old, I would much rather, this is a very strange policy I'm going to share with you. When I posted this on YouTube, a lot of people very upset with me. I would much rather have somebody who's 14 and a half years old, who's had a job and paid a thousand dollars in taxes vote, then a 28 year old kid who's never had a job, never paid taxes. I don't want that guy to vote. Why? Because he contributed to society, the 14 and a half year old kid, the 15 year old kid contributed to society and realized how hard it is year old kid, the 15 year old kid contributed to society

and realized how hard it is to pay the taxes into whatever they're spending money on. You want to spend $100 billion to Ukraine, we could have built 20 walls. We could have built 20 walls with that money that was sent. You're not saying Ukraine, I'm saying it. So you're safe. Don't worry. They're not going to come after you. They're going to come after me. So all of these things that you look at were going away from earning. When an immigrant comes here, all they're looking at, say, wait a minute, I can go work this and do this and do this and I'm going to earn this. I'm going, I'm going to town all day.

I'm good with this. Many Americans don't have that mindset because bad policies have consequences and we're suffering the negative impact of that. But you asked the follow-up question, right, with kids. And your question is how to balance it with challenging them, yet still having the opportunity. What was the question you were asking? Yeah, the tension between you affording your kids, the benefits that all of your hard workers allow them to do. Sure. Some agree with. I'm very greedy. And here's what I mean by I'm very greedy. doing. Some agree with me. I'm very greedy. And here's what I'm mean by I'm very greedy. I want my kids as close to me for the

rest of my life. We have a family that lives in our community messages about a house right next to our house. And he just moved into the community. He calls a lot of mayhem. It's all over the place cops are coming in every week. We have, you know, what he call it, paparazzi craziness that's going on. But one of the families that lives in our community, they run a medical company with 6,7,000 employees. So the founders, the mom and dad, their houses here, right next door to the house, they have two sons. The other son lives here who is the chief marketing officer.

They're all the sons' houses here. Each son has four kids. Each son has four kids. Both sons are doctors. Both sons married someone who's a doctor. And they each have four kids. They have a structure on what they do Monday nights. Every Tuesday night, they have dinner together and they talk about God. Every Wednesday, there's a system to everything they do.

He'll call me and say, hey, we went fishing this morning. I got a bunch of fish. Can I drop it off to you? I am enamored by how those parents created that kind of a structure where their kids are respectful, their grandkids are respectful. We're going to Halloween, we're walking in Halloween,

doing trick or treating, and the sun comes by, 17 year sun comes by, and he says, yeah, he doesn't have his iPhone with him. I said, how does he know? He doesn't have his iPhone with him. I said, how does he know it? Not have his iPhone with him. He says, in our family, standards very easy. You want your phone? You got to have straight A's. He's got to be. I said, well, let me get to straight. Your 17 year old son doesn't have a phone because he doesn't have one, because he has one B says, yeah, it's our standard. I said, what are you talking about? So it's

very simple. You just got to make sure you got straight A's. You get a phone. You get the car. You get this. Now, somebody's going's. You get a phone, you get the car, you get this. Now, somebody's gonna listen to this and say, what, what a freaking extreme set of standards. That's tyranny. That's tyranny. That's exactly the topic is that end up becoming that, that, that, that, no problem.

It's called standards and expectations. And for a family who has the ability to use money and waste it and do whatever they want to keep, that kind of standards, I respect that even more. And guess what? The sun loves his father, loves his mother, loves their grandparents, respectful kids. So it's not easy to do, but if it matters to you eventually in my life when I say I'm greedy, I would love to create a proposition for my kids.

We're 20 years from now. They want to run one of the companies. They want to be within the company. They want to work with one of the companies. And I like them to live close to me. Will it happen? It's gonna take us 30 years to find out because. Dude, pan generational housing.

I'm seeing in Austin, right? Commun or ranch where someone's buying a pattern of land. And then there's another one of those puppies down there. If you want to, they're buying a pattern of land. And we're gonna not just have us. We're gonna have somebody else come and live with us as well. We're gonna have grandmarr and Grand Power, and they're going to be that this is the way that it was.

I'm all with this. This is the way that it was. And here's another thing to consider, right? Would you rather have? You're drinking too, gonna do anything to me or no. What's... You're gonna survive. You're gonna be dialed in.

You're gonna survive, I promise. Whatever the internet throws at you, you'll survive. So, what is the... Yeah, so we've got... That's citrus, that one's orange. That one's some right, yeah. Okay, that's just a wild citrus. So one of the interesting questions that you have here would be,

would you rather have a parent who pities you more than they believe in you? You didn't do well. It's okay. That teacher doesn't understand. Let me pat you on the back. Come here, little Timmy will take you for ice cream. Or would you rather have a parent who says, I believe in you more than I pity you.

I mean, look, I'll tell you my dad, very annoying man. Okay. Because never sympathize, never felt sorry for anything. Never, it was always stanzled in expectation, but he always loved me. So when I was six years old and my teacher asked me, what do you want to be when you grow up? I said, I want to be a father. Why?

That's because I want to be like my dad. I had a very good dad. My dad still with us. He was in a hospital this week, but he's out, he's doing good. He's at the house. Kids love him, everybody loves him. My kids all have a relationship with him my dad's still with us. He was in a hospital this week But he's out. He's doing good. He's at the house Kids love him everybody loves him my kids all have a relationship with him. He's 81 years old It took a lot to please my dad my dad was an impressed by anything

He wouldn't be there say oh my gosh And by the way, he's a Middle Eastern father which means I've never played catch with the guy We've never thrown the football. We never played anything No, I was fine. He just he was a football. We never played anything. No sports. He was a worker. Since eight grade, he dropped out in Iran and he started working to take care of his mom and dad. Their family was very, very close. But again, remember how early you're on

when we're talking about choosing your enemies wisely, we talked about how the top performers have a person that gave them unconditional love and one that brought a lot of pain and then they chose their enemies wisely. I think the role of a person that is gentle and another one that nothing's ever good enough is a great combination. I think if both parents are gentle, that's a problem. And I also think if both parents are nothing's ever good enough, is also a problem. I think you need a little bit. There's a reason why the creator, God, created the dynamics that he created. You know, I have one of our guys who are spending our photographers with us, and he's holding

his daughter while we're doing a photo shoot this Saturday and she keeps asking for mom. She keeps asking, I said, she, that is girl, oh, she's, now it's all mommy. I said, when does she want you, whenever she's scared, she comes to me. So the kid runs to daddy when she's scared, but goes to mommy when she's hurt. That's an interesting dynamic. How it is. She feels safer by dad when there's a risk, but feels safer by mom when she's hurt

because she's gonna be pampered and taking care of. I think that's very healthy combination. There was a quarterback, a bread far, many years ago. I don't know if you know, bread far, he's a famous texture. That's an inside joke if you know who he is. But he has his quarterback. He has his coach. So tough on him.

So tough on him. Nothing was ever good with his quarterback. Kick in his ass. Talking shit to him in the sideline. How could you throw that interception? What the fuck was that all about? What was that all about? And he's afraid of the coach.

And he's always escaping the coach. But there was a guy that was, I think his name was Mary Uchi, Steve Mary Uchi. And he would always put his arm around and listen, he believes in you. Once you prove him right, deep down, I said he believes in you. Go through the past that, you know, he knows he can't throw. Show him exactly what we got. Let's go in this game form. Let's get in. So that dynamic worked incredibly well for Bread Far, as well as many other players out there. So I think one without the other is a problem if you got both as a great combination. Yeah, there's a lot of problems with fatherlessness in the homes.

Melissa Cahney just wrote a new book called The Two Parent Advantage, A Two Parent Privilege, sorry, and dude, it's terrifying. Just the raw data, the raw outcomes that you get. Did your mom and dad stay together? Yes. Okay. Very till today. Yep. Only child. So only child.

Only child. So do you have that only child syndrome? Yes. What do you mean the guy that's the center of all of these lights and stuff? In some regards. Okay. In some regards, yes, but I think I had quite a stern upbringing, it was held to incredibly high standards. It was very non rebellious as a kid. Non rebellious.

Very non rebellious. Very, very non rebellious. You know, wasn't going out, wasn't sneaking out. I don't think I ever got grounded once. The God play a role or no. No. Standards and expectation was a tough standard. Hi. Very high. What did your mom and dad do? Dad is an engineer. Mom stopped working for probably 10 to 12 years to raise me while dad was out working. But this isn't, you know, dad was on the working class of most working class. We live in a city in the UK that was famous only for having the highest teen pregnancy

rating in the UK. And then it lost that. So it didn't even have that as a title anymore. At least you could brag about it. Now we got nothing to talk about. Yeah, exactly. We haven't even got that. So, but it was very formative.

And I'm just thinking more and more about this tension between success making people soft. I spoke to David Goggins about it on the podcast. He's this guy who can command millions of dollars for speaking gigs. And he's choosing to go smoke jumping. Have you seen this thing, he's got this guy who can command millions of dollars for speaking gigs, and he's choosing to go smoke jumping. Have you seen this thing that he's doing? So smoke jumping is when there's a wildfire in the middle of nowhere, and they need to air drop in the firefighters. So they parachute in with a pack around the waist with all

their stuff on, and they also put water, huge, water bucket, the things that they'll attach to their hoses to separately, parachute them in, and they just live in the fire until they put it out, sometimes they're out there for a week. Pretty sure he makes, it's either $7 or $12 an hour that he makes for doing this smoke jumping, as it's called, it's in Canada for the most part, instead of going and doing this, speaking to it. And I asked him about success making you soft. And he says, I see it way too much. And that's why I don't like it.

I'm not about the flash. I'm not about any of that. One of the best books in business was written by a legend, see legendary CEO in Silicon Valley, who ran Intel. I think he's the only guy that for a decade straight, he grew the company 100% every year. Unheard of what the sky did. And he grew, Hungarian guy.

Okay. You know what the book title is? Only the paranoid survive. Only the paranoid survive. And that's what you say that before. So I had a question to you around only the paranoid survive. I don't disagree that paranoia is an unbelievable competitive advantage. It's a very useful performance enhancer, right?

You are paying more attention, you are more detailed oriented, you're more fearful, all the rest of it. Ultimately, is it worth it? Do you think is paranoia worth it as a life strategy? You are protected by those who take that seriously. Okay, you know, burden is not something that say sexy sell. You know, there's a lot of things that you and I can sell that's very sexy. Okay, work from home, very sexy.

Yet the loneliness epidemic in America right now is record breaking numbers we've never seen before, right? On what people are doing, how lonely they are, numbers on depression is off the charts right now compared to what it was just 10 years ago. So yeah, you can sell work from home, you can sell three and a half day work week, you can sell laptop, entrepreneur, you can sell, these are all sexy things to sell, right?

You can sell, set up a funnel and make 20 grand a month and don't have to do anything. These are all very interesting, easy things to sell. Try selling burden. Go ahead and sell burden. Oh, it's the incredible honor of having burden of the responsibility of a nation or state or a military or freedom. Try selling it. It's not an easy sale, it's a hard sale. Responsibility isn't sexy. So why are so many great leaders turned on by that burden?

Why? Because someone's got to do it. So it all depends, you know, in the book, your next five moves, I talk about how the most important question you got to answer in life is Who do you want to be? What type of life do you want to live? That's simple. Okay, so what does this mean? Do you want to be a founder? Yeah, you sure? Yeah Positive I think so it's kind of cool right want to be a founder entrepreneur. You sure you want to be a founder

You sure you want to be the number one guy Tom L's were, who was my business partner, said one of the best things to me. This guy was at the, talk about the legendary interview of all time, it's the last interview of Steve Jobs and Bill Gates and Silicon Valley. Okay, wherever it was, 300 people were invited at this meeting. Tom was one of them sitting on it. It's recor-

You got to see it by the way, sick. It's the red share. When you see the red share, you're watching the right one. Steve Jobs is super skinny. Tom Mills were tells me, since Pat, it took me 50 years to realize, I don't make a lot of money when I'm the number one guy. The most money I ever made, is when I was number two to number six. Think about saying that. I think about taking 52 years

to realize, 50 years to realize the most money you ever made, was when you were the number two guy or number six guy, because there's burden with number one. Number one has got to realize the most money you ever made was when you were the number two guy or number six guy Because there's burden with number one Number one is got to sell the dream number one is got a cell division Number one has got to seem like even though we're about to go out of business They're at peace. They're calm. They carry the burden sleepless nights Your finances you can reveal to people if you're about to run out of money We're gonna make the expenses. We're gonna make salaries, we're gonna pay payroll.

That's the number one, who wants that burden? Nobody wants that burden. So, no, if the idea is to sell that, no, it is not an easy sale. But if you wanna know why you right now are here and we are able to do this podcast at a pretty unstable time in the world today. It's probably because around 500 people have the burden of making sure nobody messes with

you and I where we are right now. And those 500 people have a thousand people underneath them or 500 people underneath them while you and I are able to sit here. So it's not the most sexy, attractive thing like in Smithsonian, I don't know if you've been to the Smithsonian in DC. There's a part where you go and it shows, you walk this way, it shows how Lincoln aged over, it's an incredible thing to see. And there's a quote they buy by Lincoln about burden. Okay, the, the being a president is the greatest burden a person can ever have, right? Some, some quote like that.

I'm paraphrasing. So it's not for everybody. And it's not a sale. The person chooses to do it. Obama before and after his eight years. Right. He still looks good though. He's still got swagger.

Yeah. But I mean, that was 20 years in eight years. That's right. So this is something I wanted to talk about. You have spent a lot of time reading about and researching and speaking to powerful people. Who do you think really runs the world? You're going to go there, huh, with the question, who do I think runs the world? So I used to ask the question.

I said, who's got the most power in America? Is it Congress? Is it President? Is it the CEO's of virtual governments? We're talking Google, Twitter, Facebook, you know, those guys, Amazon, you know, or is it billionaires? Okay, you know, the most richest band in the world.

Who's got the most power? And you'd be amazed how few people are president. Does it come and go? You know, the famous quote would Putin that he says, you know, American presidents, you don't have to worry about it. They're gonna be there four to eight years. Some suits are run in, you know, the famous quote with Putin that he says, you know, American presidents, you don't have to worry about it. They're going to be there four to eight years. Some suits are running, you know, and run the country behind closed doors. And he's got a very good point when he says something like that, Putin.

But to me, there are a lot of alliances being built. So if you and I were to think about aspirational type of people, okay? You know how they say You know, well Michael Jackson eventually got to a point where he got so many different girls that he started trying with this and he started trying with this And a lot of these people in Hollywood have so much sex with so many different people that they become creative and they do dumb things, right? Okay Tiger Woods the reason why he got these girls because what do you know? Would it is to be the greatest girlfriend of the world and everybody throws their panties at you?

You want to judge a guy like that? Why don't you go be the greatest girlfriend see what it feels like to be one out of eight billion? You don't know what it's like so they're kind of trying and experimenting with all this stuff, right? It's almost like I'm so much in a prison jail. Everybody's watching what I'm doing I'm gonna break the rules a little bit to see what I'm capable of doing. Okay. So, so let's go process and dissect some of these guys that make all the money in the world. Okay, you let's go process and dissect some of these guys that make all the money in the world. Okay, you become a billionaire and you're still dangerously ambitious

not from a good place but more selfish place. Okay, you took over an industry, now you work five billion dollars, now you work ten, if you're a billionaire you're the best at what you do in your space for the most part or you help build the best in that space for the most part. Okay, cool. So Maybe your marriage didn't work out. Maybe you're not the best father in the world and you're like, well I Want more control. I want more power. I Can't be a president. I don't want to be a president because if I run for president

They're gonna reveal the things that I've done in my life and God forbid if that gets all the light I don't want that that's embarrassing But you know what I'm gonna do. What if I can take over the world? Are there other people like me that are driven by wanting to take over the world? What if we could make the world one place and we make all the decisions for everybody? Because I'm probably one of the smartest people in the world. And you know, that conversation is taking place. Again, you really start having that God-like figure, like I don't know if you're familiar

with George Soros. You know, in one of the interviews, he gave to LA Times. He says, I always fancied myself with being a God. Fancied myself with being a God. This is an LA Times interview, 20 plus years ago. If you type in George Soros, LA Times God, it's the most disturbing interview to read about this guy. A lot of people are very skeptical about him, right?

He's like the boogie man of a number of conspiracies. How many people have you heard say, I always fancied myself with being a God. He says, but what's great about where I'm at right now is it's no longer a dream. It became a reality. I have a friend who has spent a lot of time with super, super powerful people. And he told me about a meeting that he had with one individual in particular, who spoke about being an apex predator. He said that apex predators don't care about

prey, and even though the prey that he was referring to was still his own species, it was really haunting the story the way that that was told to me because you had someone who not only had the motivation to be able to go and enact whatever nefarious malicious plan, but also had the actual resources to be able to go and do it. Right, those two things together are, they're scary and that was something

that really opened my eyes. I'm very non-conspiratorial in the way that I think I always lean toward, you know, do not attribute to malice that which always lean toward, you know, do not attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity, do not attribute to coordination, that which can be explained by coincidence. And yet, the more that I read and the more that I learn about things, the more there, there seems to be there, right? Right? Yeah, you know, people are offended by different things. Some people being offended in their deepest insecurities,

they're willing to use their ambitions to go to certain levels that at that point, they're not thinking about the consequences of ruining a lot of people's lives. That's not something they're thinking about at that level. So Hitler was offended. When you read my comb for you study what Hitler did, he was simply offended. Somebody offended him. So his entire life was about doing what he did just because he was offended.

Now most people who are offended, they do what? They forget about it. And they move on. Some of these guys want control. Some of these guys want to make decisions for you. Some of these guys on the money side, at least they're going to make money to get power. Some people don't go make money to get power. Some people call out, they're like, no, I'm not going to go make money to get power. I'm going to get power by creating laws and thinking, I know what's best for you. So there's a lot of different people that you can put in these steps of organization.

You just have to think, like if you were to think about the commission of the mob, always go back to a lucky Luciano created a commission with a five families. He was the one that ran the commission right up the five families, okay. When you think about what meetings in the world happens where all the powerful people show up, you get the G20, you got the UN, you got the world economy, you got Davos, you got all these guys that come together, you got NATO, you got, so NATO could be like, well, NATO is original when the 12 or 14 countries were part of NATO, what was it really all about? To fight USSR, there is no USSR. Why are we still finding it?

What's the outcome now? Are we still fighting communism? So what a lot of people might say is that those organizations are so obvious that they can't be the ones where the real shit's happening, right? That's just the smoke screen. The real shit is the shit that's behind it and the shit that's behind that and so on and so forth. In your opinion, do you think that NATO, WIF, WHO, that's those

people, there's no further upset of strings that are playing the ventriloquized game behind those ones. Do you think that that's where a lot of power actually lies? I don't know. What I will say, listen to you, is with the questions you're asking, I think there's a reason why the audience wants to hear what you think about what's going on right now, because you're asking some heavy questions right now, which means you're curious. And if I'm the audience, I would like to know what you can come up with if you took a deeper dive and really wanted to get into these types of, you know, information. But, you know, think about what things people are most addicted to.

Okay, addicted personalities, video games, porn, sex, cocaine, ecstasy, weed, steroids, party in, all of that stuff. But what's one of the most addicted things that many of those guys can't get power? Are you kidding me? Power is like power porn, the porn of having a lot of power and getting the look and people that look at you that are afraid of you. Some people love that. Some people love that.

You know, the quote, like, if you really want to test someone's character given power, I mean, some people really love having power. Take a company and see some of the guys that they hired. They hired a wrong person at the top. The guy was all driven by power. What happens? Take a president that becomes a president. And he realizes he can use the justice system against his opponent.

What happens? They got that power. It's a lot of power to give to somebody, right? Yeah, so you know, those people I believe are out there, some of them are 100% money people, because money talks, and you can have a lot of employees to do anything, right? You do. It's going to be the money people, but there's also the other power players behind closed doors that, you know, in the movie Moneyball, Jonah Hill plays, I don't know if I'm saying his name correctly, he plays the role of the guy that Brad Pitt is sitting there saying, why is this GM of Cleveland, Indians

keep looking at that guy? It doesn't get on base. Who the hell are you? Right? John Maxwell or Dale Carnegie wrote about the Center book saying the love, E.F. Hutton. E.F. Hutton was in the room that every time the guy was making a decision, he would have made a decision

until he asked about E.F. Hutton. So here's what we're going to show you. So we're proposing, okay, great. Hey, E.F. Hutton, what do you think about it? Okay, we're not going to be doing it. Great. The world is filled with, like Henry Kissinger, I don't know how do you think about it? Okay, we're not gonna be doing it, great. The world is filled with e-like Henry Kissinger. I don't know how much you know about Henry Kissinger. That guy's an EF Hutton, if there ever was one.

There's a lot of those guys that are the brains behind the faces that we see. And most of the times, the best EF Hutton's, no one ever finds that who they were. No one ever finds that who those guys are. One of the other tensions that I've felt when learning about you and also when watching your content, you've spoken about this specifically to do with Kobe, but I think it also probably plays a role in almost everybody's life is this tension between self-love and high standards, right? It's the desire to maximize everything you can and to not leave more on the table than

you need to, and also the ability to enjoy the moment and to be able to actually take some pleasure in that. And there was something that came up from a friend that I wrote about this week, so I wanted to explain this to you. He did a psilocybin journey in Australia and a question came to him and the question was Do people love you for who you are or for what you do? This is uncomfortable to consider people loving us for who we are feels more real genuine caring empathetic and robust It feels like we're less fickle and more difficult to lose on the other hand people loving us for what we do feels

Trans-Actional and transient the love that we receive becomes contingent on what achievements and successes we can offer in return. And the obvious fear is that if a point came where we no longer had anything to offer in return, would our love be taken away? So here's an even more uncomfortable question. Do you love you for who you are or for what you do? This highlights our hypocrisy. You see, we want the world to love us for who we are, a balanced caring view of our true value, independent of our accomplishments. Meanwhile, our own self-love is largely determined by what we do. If we fall short, even though we know we tried our best, we still castigate ourselves for being insufficient, unworthy creatures. So we want the world to show up for us in a way that we are often not prepared

to show up for ourselves. You demand more than this, demanded of yourself. Powerful. Do you see that resonating this tension in high performers? Desire for more, requirement for self-love? Yes, but for me, there's a part of it that's also honest. Because, again, the relationship with between a man and a prostitute, what is that relationship? Each side is getting something in return.

The prostitute is getting what? Money. What's the man getting? Pleasure, okay? And they walk away, it's done. It's a very honest relationship, right? There's no depth in that relationship. It's straight up. It's honest. Done. We move on. Okay Working at a company

Say you work with a company and He helps the YouTube channel go to the next level doing all the work behind closed doors all this stuff Would he do that job for free? Or would he do it because you're offering something back to them? How many of my employees would be with me if it was working for free? That non-profit would be kind of weird. Guys, what we're doing is very important but I need you to work for free. What do you mean? Are you going to make money? I am but I want you to work for free. It's kind of weird, right? There needs to be an exchange. Again, it's honest exchange. Okay If I go above and beyond everybody else and I work, should I deserve the right to get paid more?

Yes, okay, is it beneficial for me to work with somebody like you? Of course. Why? Because you're driven. So should I hang on to your co-tail? Because if I go with you, big things are going to happen in my life. Absolutely. Is that a selfish decision? Yes. But it's also a wise decision. Do you know that? Do they know that? They know that. Do they also know that you have options? Because now you're at a point that a lot of people would love to be working for you. Of course, they know that. They're not dummies, right? They know that. Do they also know that you have options because now you're at a point that a lot of people would love to be working for you. Of course, they know that they're not dummies, right? They know that. Okay, but you still choose to stay with them and they still choose choose to stay with you. Is there benefit of somebody the money, that's his loss. If you're doing your part, he was never in it for, believe it or not, it was only about

the money part. So these are all, and the reason why this is so interesting, what you're reading about, self-love and all these other things, is when you look at some of the people that make it at the highest of the highest of the highest level. They typically have been backstabbed so much that in the back of their mind, sometimes they're just waiting to see who's gonna backstabbing next. So the desire to have a straight up relationship

is no longer the same, okay. There's a difference between you dating somebody who falls in love with you and you're making 22 bucks an hour working at Bally's and she loves you and she stays with you. There's a difference between you getting married when you're making $300,000 a year and then there's a difference between you making marrying somebody when you're worth half a billion dollars. How do you know the girl that marries you at the end is worth, you know, is with you because she loves you versus she loves what

you offer them, right? And is that a sin? Is she making a mistake? You know, I think in an ideal world, I am very comfortable knowing that other people are also there in your life to get what they can out of you. I'm very comfortable with that, because there's a chapter in the book here where I talk about choosing running mates, and I put a clear criteria on how to choose a running mate. You know, what they bring to the table. Their level of trust with you, all these ways of scoring people in your life to see, hey, is this a person because the whole concept would choose a new enemy's wise. You also need to choose your allies wisely. So somebody like you, you need true believers in your life. You can't

have 50 true believers. That's just naive to think that. You can't have 10 true believers. Can you have two to five true believers? Yes. How valuable is that? A lot. So no, I, you know, the more and more I moved up, the more I realized almost everybody, like, and I'm talking 99% of people, listen to the radio radio show WIIFM. What's in it for me? And a part in this book that we dissected your question, which is fascinating question, is in the company I've been running a sales organization for 20 something years, and when I started the insurance company in 09 we grew it from 66 agents. Today we have 50,000 agents. We have licensed nationwide. We have a few hundred offices nationwide. But my idea of looking at who's got the biggest upside to contribute to the company has also changed. It used to be, man, that guy is so selfish.

All that guy cares about money. I mean, this guy is the nicest guy in the world. And then I realized, the nicest guy in the world who had no selfish desires was happy making $5,000 a month. And so then I created a scoring system. What percentage of you is selfish and selfless and was to good balance? If you're 100% only you and everybody else zero, well guess what? You're still a bigger net positive to society than the person at the bottom.

That's what? Zero percent selfish and 100% selfless. If a person is 100% selfless, they probably don't eat well. They probably add a shape. They're probably not healthy. They're probably going to have to go to the hospital. It's going to cost you money in taxes. They probably smell because they don't take a shower. They spend their money on everybody else.

So then you'll see the profile. Good people give you a council or around a 50-50 range You can always trust them to give you counsel Drivers of a company or somebody like you doing what they do 70 30 is a good split Okay, 80 20 is a little bit problematic because 80 20 sometimes will compromise to beat everybody so you want the 65 70 so so you're asking a technical question. And I've just come to a conclusion that, you know, both parties, if they want to selfishly be pleased, if we can please each other. And one of us takes the lead and we're getting mutual love and benefits out of the relationship. You're in a good situation.

Every once in a while you'll find somebody that's going to be your right or die, they're going to see Chris, no matter what she do, I'm with you till the day you die. And you think they're telling the truth. Your goes by, they're still there, even more. Five years go by, they got married. Like, when he gets married and ask, it's going to change, it's still there. Ten years later, he's still there. And you're like, it's really a true believer. Wow, but it's not gonna be that many people.

That's a very short list of people. Patrick, bad David, ladies and gentlemen, Patrick, I appreciate the hell out of you. I appreciate how much you pay attention, very detail oriented, and I love that. I really, really do. Thank you for today, man. It's been a long time coming.

So where should people go? They wanna keep up to date with everything you're doing? Oh, I mean, you do. Thank you for today, man. It's been a long time coming. So where should people go? They want to keep up to date with everything you're doing? Oh, I mean, you can go to Amazon and search, choose your enemies wisely, or you can find our podcast, PBRD podcast or value-taman. We're all over the place. You'll find us. Thank you, man. But this has been a blast from talking to you. I've been watching you for a long time and it's very obvious why you're climbing the way you are. I appreciate you. Anytime. Thank you.