Modern Wisdom - #720 - Whitney Cummings - What Is Wrong With Modern Women?

Episode Date: December 16, 2023

Whitney Cummings is a writer, actress, comedian and a podcaster. Women aren't having a great time at the moment. They're maybe just as lost as men, the only difference is they get a little bit more sympathy. So just where did the trajectory of women go awry and how can they find a way to be happy again? Expect to learn the social psychology behind the rise of Taylor Swift, Whitney’s thoughts on becoming a mother and the future of motherhood, whether women really can have it all, why more men are attracted to Whitney now that she’s pregnant, what we do about the future of sex robots and much more... Sponsors: Get a Free Sample Pack of all LMNT Flavours with your first box at https://www.drinklmnt.com/modernwisdom (automatically applied at checkout) Get 15% discount on the best Colostrum from ARMRA at https://tryarmra.com/modernwisdom (use code: MODERNWISDOM) Get an exclusive discount from Surfshark VPN at https://surfshark.deals/MODERNWISDOM (use code MODERNWISDOM) Extra Stuff: Get my free Reading List of 100 books to read before you die → https://chriswillx.com/books/ Buy my productivity energy drink Neutonic: https://neutonic.com/modernwisdom - Get in touch. Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chriswillx Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/chriswillx YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/modernwisdompodcast Email: https://chriswillx.com/contact/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello friends, welcome back to the show. My guest today is Whitney Cummings, she's a comedian, actress, writer and a podcaster. Women aren't having a great time at the moment, they're maybe just as lost as men, the only difference is they get a little bit more sympathy. So where did the trajectory of women go awry and how can they find a way to be happy again? Expect to learn the social psychology behind the rise of Taylor Swift, Whitney's thoughts on becoming a mother and the future of motherhood, whether women really can have it all, why more men are attracted to Whitney now that she's pregnant, what we can do about the future of sex robots, and much more. I was so impressed by Whitney on this episode, I found her charming and vulnerable and open and

insightful and just very, very smart. I was a fan of her before, but yeah, she I'm fully on teamcomings after this. I really hope that you take even half as much away from this episode as I did because it's really great. And there are a lot of insights here that I think we all need to be reminded of a lot more frequently. This episode is brought to you by Element. Stop having coffee first thing in the morning, your adenosine system that caffeine acts on isn't even active for the first 90 minutes of the day, but your adrenal system is and salt acts on your adrenal system.

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So it protects your phone, your iPod, your laptop and even your smart TV. And it's got a 30 day money back guarantee. So you can buy it and try it for 29 days. And you do not like it they will give you your money back. Head to surfshark.deals slash modern wisdom for an exclusive discount plus that 30 day money back guarantee that's surfshark.deals slash modern wisdom. But now ladies and gentlemen please welcome Whitney Cummings. Can I just really quick, you feel free to cut this? I love watching you work. I love showing up to meet somebody that I am a fan of already and I've seen their astronomical

rise to success and then I see why they deserve it. Just watching you operate for the past like five, ten minutes has been fascinating. You just care so much about what you're doing and you're meticulous, but not in a way that's micromanaging and annoying. And the attention to detail is like very intense, but not in a way that's too far, you know. Right amount of autism. It's the perfect amount of asperger.

I don't know what word we're supposed to be using right now, but it's not lateral moves. It's actually improving things, because sometimes you'll just watch people make arbitrary lateral changes for no reason just to like the other dick around or Boss someone around or something. It's been like really very endearing to watch. Thank you. I appreciate that. We're really nice to meet you. You too. Travis Kelsey, we just saw on the TV outside. We did.

Pfizer Advert, but I guess if you're hanging out the back of Taylor Swift, What do you care? You know what I mean? Yeah, well, okay, so we just saw what what happened to you when you saw that? It's just kind of it's so strange to see someone that has so much status and kind of embodies a lot of like rebellious nature, which I think you know Football players, cubies that like alpha masculine thing football players, Cubies, that like alpha masculine thing,

Pfizer, I mean, Pfizer's brand equity. It's like, it's hardly cool, right? What's the price? What's the price that makes it worth it? What's the price to someone like Travis Kelsey that makes it worth it for guys like you to go, oh, come on, you got domed by a farmer company? One Taylor Swift blowjob. Oh, like, so here's the fucking...

Do you think dating her is what influenced him to do it? Do you think being attracted to girls that skinny as a vaccine injury? You were saying before we got started that there's been a big push body positivity. We need diversity. Barbie movie comes out and Taylor Swift makes a billion dollars on tour. It's just fucking Nazi Germany. But you want girls are back. That take all your money. It's just fucking Nazi Germany. But he's one girls are back. Yeah, the big, Aryan white dream.

No, I, it's a, here's a real fucking conspiracy, right? The real conspiracy is Travis Kelsey and Taylor Swift's relationship was orchestrated by Big Pharma because they started dating at the same time that he did that Pfizer campaign. So search volume for Travis Kelsey's name

went through the roof, and when you search for his name, the vaccine stuff and the Pfizer partnership comes up too. So, my question about that, it's like my same thing about aliens and stuff, is like, I just think people are so weak and so desperate to like talk to a girl at a bar or get attention,

or the wrong person involved in that scandal took edibles. Don't you think someone would have gotten fired and told people about it? Oh, right. It's like with aliens. Like someone would have snitched. Someone, some guy would have gotten drunk at a bar and been like, hey, you don't wanna go home with me.

You wanna see a picture of a fucking alien? You know what I'm saying? Don't you think it would have gotten out? Yeah, I mean, coordination is difficult and there's definitely two worlds that people are able to hold in their mind at once, which is the government is both so incompetent that they can't organize a piss up in a brewery. And so competent that they're able to orchestrate this sort of mass. I don't see them being. I'm like, if there were aliens, we would have known. Okay, like, we would absolutely know that. Well, maybe the beginning and end of the capability is orchestrating a Travis Kelsey Taylor Swift relationship.

I don't know. It's weird. I also think though, you know, who's she gonna date? That's the thing. Who's she gonna date? It seems like guys will date down all day, you know, but who's she gonna date? Who's the Jay-Z to her Beyonce?

Yeah, rough one. I, you know, meet Canyon. He gonna date? Who's the Jay Z to her Beyonce? Yeah, rough one. I, uh, do you know meet Canyon? He does illustration videos on the internet. It's a really, really great guy. And he... I thought you were talking about my, to my child birthday. Come on. Come on.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Two and a half minutes in and talking about your meet Canyon. Anyway, he's got a channel called Papa Meet. And on it, he reacted to swifty TikToks. And it was girls, breaking down, crying, because the ticket master website had shut down

after they'd been waiting for six hours. Okay, great. There was this one where it broke down the finances. I think Taylor Swift already beaten Michael Jackson for the most revenue generated from a tour. I think at the moment, three quarters of a billion dollars. beaten Michael Jackson for the most revenue generated from a tour of it's, I think at the moment, three quarters of a billion dollars.

This tour is lasting for nearly two years. It's monstrous. Okay, well, she's done a genius thing. She's got kids. And I'm, oh, kids are her fans, her fans, not the types of kids. She's not a mother, but she appeals to children in a way that I think so many,

and I'm sure we'll wait into this territory in some capacity, where so many female pop stars, it's all about being hypersexualized, hypersexualized. And like, you know, I'm having a boy when I, you know, have a kid, but it's like, there's certainly, you're like, I can't let my kid watch. I can't let my kid listen to this. She's done this genius thing where not only that, have you seen her dancing? I actually, when I get into the conspiracy, there the conspiracy there is, I think she's very mindful about not being too overtly sexual.

Diles that back. The way that, if you look at how she dances, she's like bad at dancing. It's not sexy, it's like awkward. She looks like one of those balloon men outside of a car dealership. Waking, waving, inflatable, I'm flailing, chute men.

She's kind of just as sort of awkward and weird. There's never any sexuality about it. There's never any sexuality about it. There's never any singing about sex. It's always just like getting your heart broken and these kind of relatively like teenage feelings. And I think she's done a really genius job of that. Well, I think in a world of Sam Smith where in Nipple Tassels and dressing as the devil,

the original culture is the counterculture. Right. If you want to predict the future, what you should do is look at a movement that's happening now that hasn't had the inverse happen yet, because every culture requires the equal and opposite thing. It's like the thermodynamics of fucking culture. So, 2020, everyone shut down, no one can go outside. 2021, Megan Deestyleion does Hot Girl Summer,

which is last year you weren't able to be your free self this year, get with your girlfriends, and do your hair, and do your makeup. Well, as pussy was around that time too. Maybe they could have come together. And then, the year after that, they did Farrell Girl Summer. So you had Hot Girl Summer, and then Farrell Girl Summer was, you know, don't shave,

don't brush your hair, wear slouchy sweatpants, don't bother with boys. Yeah, for every culture that has to be a counterculture. And if you've got Sam Smith doing his thing, you know, Taylor Swift looks like a fucking conservative icon. She does. Very impressive. And then I think it's part of the reason, I mean country music is also so big. It's country music for the most part is it's kind of like older women. They're wearing like boots and pants, you know, or then you have Katy Perry with like cupcakes on her tits, you know, it's kind of like, I think country music in general parents feel safe

for letting their kids listen to it and go into show. It's a little more innocent. Yeah, but what's the worst thing that's going to happen? You're going to be an alcoholic and get in a car wreck in a truck. And yeah, and yeah, an a man might wear a square-toe boot, which is a big problem for me. That's a large, yeah, I mean, I see that a lot in Austin, Texas.

Yeah, yeah. But yeah, the, this meat-curning video, Pappip, the only second channel Pappip me, he's reacting to all of these things, and I didn't know that she released a movie in cinemas, right? Oh, sure, yeah, yeah, yeah. Girls are losing their fucking minds with these bracelets. No, like a baton, like an LED thing waving it around.

And then the credits were rolling and girls were holding hands dancing in a circle underneath the fucking screen. It is they're losing their mind. I mean, I didn't know she's our starwars. She has little lightsapers. That's true. This is Star Wars for Girls. But she also is very, it's these very easy to understand, like, girl boss Anthem. You know what I mean?

And something she did do that, because I've, you don't know that much about her, like, music per se. I've worked with a bunch of people that are obsessed with her. She does write all of her own stuff, which is very cool. She's not one of these industry plants where she's got 15 writers and you go, she really does write it herself and seems like she plays all the music herself.

And the way that she engages her fans, she makes them feel really special. I feel like this is something we can learn from. You do an amazing job at engaging your fans, but like she leaves little easter eggs for them and she really thinks her albums out, but like she leaves little Easter eggs for them. And she really thinks her albums out in a way and leaves these puzzle pieces for them and these codes and sends gifts to fans if they've come to a certain amount of shows. She's really done this marketing thing that I think a lot of us would think is kind of like corny. And I would,

I'd be in Paris. Like, oh, if you like me, like me, if you don't, you don't. I'm not going to say, I'm not going to do a mailing list. It's like, oh, she did like me, if you don't, you know, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna do a mailing list. It's like, oh, she did like what Tim Ferris did. She like built up a mailing list and engaged with her fans and like, and was okay with going, I want this really badly. Like she was okay with being like, I want to be really famous and successful. It wasn't like, if you like me, like me, if you don't, you don't, you know, as a way to control if I get rejected, at least it wasn't, you know, it was my idea. But she did this one thing where she got called a snake

because she, I don't know what it was. There was like all these snake emojis, either someone cheated on someone and some kind of like, you know, Taylor Swift gossip and someone asked her an interview. They said, so what do you feel about the fact that so many people online call you a snake? And she went, well, snake's eat rats.

And I was like, that's pretty gangster. Like I see why girls like look up to her. Every time people come for her, she manages to sublimate it into something else. I think Elon Musk did something similar where he got popped for getting one of his staff at SpaceX, our Tesla pregnant. And he just reacted to the tweet by saying the the world's birth rates are declining. I need to do my bit. Like, the fucking Brazilian jujitsu, lexical fucking trickery that you've just done there. She stunts on every time they come for her,

she stunts on them somehow. And I think so much of our job is forward facing people now, is figuring out how to handle haters, or like how to not respond, or you can't not respond at all, you know, but you can't care too much, but she just kind of owns it, and then she'll put it into her songs.

I think wit is such an underrated skill, just being able to be witty with stuff. And you can be charming and not give it too much on your attention. Interesting that, look at this, the fucking Taylor Swift podcast. What, definitely an interesting lesson there about the fact that she was prepared to do things

that other artists have even a smaller size would feel maybe beneath them or might be like low status. It's what I think in the psychology literature would be called a counter signal. So if you look at CEOs now, they'll happily wear crocs or sneakers or whatever and a hoodie into the office. But the guy who's a middle manager that's desperately

climbing, he'll have to wear a three piece suit. Of course. So it's almost like she can afford to do this because of her excess. Yes. We were talking outside. You mentioned about, like, are you supposed to have a take on the Ukraine?

I think you're on Joe's show yesterday and it's like, wow, there's so many people listening. Like, am I supposed to talk about something important? Do you feel that, you know, is there an obligation if you get to a certain size of having to talk about something important? Yeah. Do you feel that, is there an obligation if you get to a certain size of having to talk about important things and stuff like that? Can you not just keep having fun all the way up? I think for me, it's like being a comedian,

I think it's really important to know our place. I think for me, as long as the take is funny, you can talk about anything. But to come in and be one of these Hollywood people, not that I see myself as someone who's in Hollywood, I think a lot of people might see me that way. I can't seriously go, this is who you should vote for or this is how you should think or this is what you should believe or this is take the moral high ground. But if the take has some sort of comedic value, it's like there's nothing we can't talk

about. I like to stay away from politics for the most part unless I'm making fun of both sides simultaneously. That's because I think people, I think it's our job as comedians and podcasters, it's just a surprise people. There's just so much content out there right now and so many people are talking about politics and I think you gotta go like,

what kind of person is seeking comedy? They are maybe bored at their jobs. They wanna take a girl on a date. They have their kid at home crying. They've been in a long marriage. They just wanna go to a club. They wanna go to a venue. And here to go to a venue and hear something different from what they're seeing online all day.

And so it's my job to surprise them. So if they show up and I'm going to start talking about Trump, they're like, I just had to hear my uncle yell about this for two hours. Like you just, I just have to do whatever the opposite. Everybody else is doing to try to give them some kind of surprise. Yeah, it's a, it's strange to think about how, as people's platforms grow, there's this compulsion to have a take on everything. Unless you have a take, no one else is saying, there's really no need to speak about it.

Yeah, unless you're unbelievably educated in something, but I definitely, as platforms grow, there's almost a pressure to be like, I'm better talk about something interesting here. Well, I'm talking about platforms growing. It's like you can play the short game, the long game. And for me, I'm growing for so long and seeing that his first thousand episodes were just him and his friends

just talking about bullshit, talking about comedy and stuff. It wasn't necessarily what was going on in the news. And then that made for this library what was going on in the news. And then that made for this library that was really easy to syndicate. You can go back and listen to episodes of his from 10 years ago, still funny, still entertaining. I always like, in terms of making the podcast, I always wanted to go like, I want to build this library that's evergreen and not too topical. So if people discover my podcast now and they start from the beginning, it's still going

to be about, you know, main themes of human nature, relationships, making mistakes, edification, all the kind of stuff that you talk about, too, that's a little bit evergreen instead of someone tuning in and being like hearing about a candidate that they don't even remember that was to even make the second priority. I always think about this. So Ben Shapiro is a good example. I listened to a lot of him during COVID because if there's a rapidly changing new cycle and you've got fuck all else to do, someone that does one episode five days a week that is always telling you what's happened in the last 24 hours is pretty good place to go. But I realized looking back on that, no one's going back to hear what happened on April 20th, 2020 because it was so, you get this huge lift off in terms of interest, but it doesn't necessarily carry through,

which I think is an interesting way to kind of look at things. If people go like, oh my God, I just discovered, you know, a modern wisdom, he just had Jordan Pearson on, oh my God, he had Jordan Pearson on two years ago. Let me listen to that. They're going to cover different stuff. Like, oh my, and I just learned so much. He had Robert Green on, you know, so for me,

I really, you know, I come from making TV and sitcoms, and when you try to make sitcoms that get syndicated, the ideas that they live forever. So if you have jokes that are too topical, they're going to expire, and it's going to feel dated. So I always kind of thought, okay, what's my place in this podcast space? Because there's a lot of really, really smart people doing this. There are a lot of people way more qualified than me talking about politics. That's not something I necessarily am qualified to weigh in on. I can make jokes about it, but why don't I do these like evergreen

shows that people can on road trips, just go back two years and it's still going to be relevant. If you've been happy to see the Jada Pinkett Smith meltdown because the bar for being a good mother has now been set lower than ever. I love that she's like, Will Smith and I have not been married for seven years and I am Jada Pickett Smith. Smith, that's like the, why are you Jada Pickett all of a sudden? Why does your book say Smith on the end? That whole thing is wild to me

and I've been actually thinking about this podcast because I've been a little bit nervous about coming on it and how I can be like useful in some way to your listeners and because they all seem to be very high performing, striving people. And I do have this theory that, and it's probably something you've explored before, is that who you marry or date is a business decision. Not in terms of we're going into business together, but in terms of the amount of bandwidth

you have, the amount of energy you have, is this person energizing you, is it depleting you? It's going to decide how focused you can be in your personal life. Like one of my favorite quotes is the flobaric quote, what does it be organized in orderly in your, no, be regular in orderly in your personal life so you can be original and violent in your work. So how like, that doesn't have to be boring, not boring sex, you don't have to be bored of your partner, but the most stressful part does that have to be boring, not boring sex, you know, it have to be bored of your partner, but it, the most stressful part of your day should

be work, right? So I think that oftentimes the person you choose is a business decision, but I look at them and I'm like, they just wanted to build a business, you know? I think that was always kind of a business arrangement, in my opinion. I watched the first ever time that I've seen the rock on a podcast. And he was on Trevor Noah's podcast, which he's partnered with Spotify. And I didn't know this, but the rock has broken up with his wife,

but is still business partners with her. So they have a daughter together. Okay. And the rock and his ex-wife are now separated. Okay. But still business partners and still have the daughter. For his business business like his Zoa maybe or the fucking tequila or what the rum or whatever it is that you just I don't know what

But at least one of them he's still business partners with his with his wife There's a lot of these things where it's like you make that kind of money together And then it's like we're better together as a business I mean think about what what what it would be like I'm having to like break up a corporation basically You know, yeah, it divorces easier than a separation of the business. Totally, but yeah, it's not for me. I'm one of those idiots that still wants to have like amazing sex with someone and like really feel like

I'm best friends with my person and I'm gonna like hold out for that, cut to me in 10 years when I'm married to Bill Gates or some crazy Craven shit. Yeah. And I'm like, I'm like, we own half of the McDonald's potatoes and the GMOs or whatever. But I guess that's for some people, but I don't know, I really,

that to me seems really sinister and Craven. I mean, look, I'm a comic, I'm happy to weigh it and say what happened to the Oscars, when Will Smith smacked Chris Rock in the face, you know, that was, and no one stood up, by the way. No, nobody even stood up. Like that's, you know, is the comedian people, you know, like, God, you guys can get away with anything until you get punched in the face in front of, you know, a room of 1,000 people that don't even stand up to help you.

But the fact that he looked back at her did that in the name of his wife. I'm like, I don't know what video she has on him. I don't even stand up to help you. But the fact that he looked back at her did that in the name of his wife. I'm like, I don't know what videos she has on him. I don't know what photo, I don't know what the fuck is going on in there. What kind of who's afraid of Virginia Woolfshade is going on in that marriage, but that's my nightmare. Yeah, you know, Ryan Long and Danny from the boys cast.

Yes. Yeah, New York. I was texting him. They did a really great episode a couple of weeks ago about this. And I was texting Ryan. And he was like, dude, I'm unironically really fucking worried about Wilson. Like, genuinely fucking emotionally invested in the video where she was filming him and he was like, I need you to stop filming me.

Yes, that's a while ago now. Yeah, but his fate, I mean, he's like, he's in a bad mood and she's like, this is my business. This is what I'm on camera for a living. I'm not getting paid right now. Broken man. Broken man. Scary. But there are some men that I've seen this before where some men are like, I just need this mom slash wife to like keep me together to keep me focused.

I don't know. I think when you get famous at a very young age, maybe you become infantilized or frozen or you cling to someone that feels like a safety net to you. That fix you. Because then you also get to this place where it's like, you know, my wish for guys like you is that you get all the things you want and all the big brand deals and all the huge products into, but don't get targeted on your back famous. Because when you get that famous, you're like, well, if I go like date a waitress, is this

going to be a lawsuit? Like is this a nightmare? Is it going to get accused of harassment? Like when you get to a certain point, as a man in terms of getting famous, I think it's for women too, it just looks a little bit different. You go from predator to prey.

I saw a really interesting reel from Chris to Stefano. I can't remember who show he was on, but he was talking about his dad had given him a piece of advice. His dad sounds like an absolute maniac. The mom off you, too, yeah. Sounds like an absolute maniac, by the way. Anna, he was saying,

maybe Chris had become single or maybe it was before he had his kids, I don't know. And he was saying, you're sleeping with all of these women and you're having all of this fun and for every 100 women, 99 of them are gonna be great, but there's one that's gonna fucking ruin your life. And I don't know what the proportion is,

but there's definitely, from men's side in a post-MeToo world, there is a different tenor to what's going on. There is this fear that's out there, and I don't disagree that, you know, a lot of MeToo was necessary to kind of counter some very predatory men that were using their position and their power to gain sexual access in a way that wasn't ethical. The problem is when that overreaches and goes from trying to sanitize the bad elements of male behavior and instead it just sterilizes all of it and everyone's like fucking terrified and working on tentahooks and it seems like that, you know, that Chris story kind of alludes to that. There's a fucking minefield out there and you got to be careful where you start.

Well, I do know in my business, it's backfired majorly in terms of, you know, that less people are hiring women for a long time, because they're like, I don't want a woman in my office, are you insane? And then people started putting glass offices in, you know, like glass walls, like this would have been glassed, just so everyone sees what's going in here. Oh geez.

I would go on movie sets and people would be like, you know, I did a Foo Fighters movie, and there was a sex scene in it, and they're like, but you don't have to, you can, you know, wear your shirt I did a Foo Fighters movie and there was a sex scene in it. And they're like, but you don't have to, you can, you know, wear your shirt if you want. And I'm like, this is a sex scene, you guys don't like, but whatever you need. And I was like, why?

What are you looking at? I'm not gonna sue you guys. Like you're a day-walk or something. Yeah, I mean, I'm like, I'm a female comedian on the list of shit that's happening to me. This is like, you know, so I just, I found myself being like, oh God, everyone is like terrified because I mean, yes, there were a lot like, oh God, everyone is terrified because,

I mean, yes, there were a lot of, and look, yes, I'm sure you could do forensics on the fact that why women are so desperate that they got to a point where they needed to sue someone because they were hugged too long in a Christmas party or maybe that's a mental illness or maybe that's childhood trauma or whatever it is. Why do women feel the need to be grifters

and to take advantage? That's, you know, talk to a, you know, sociologist about that, but, you know, it's been, um, it's been really interesting though. One side effect I've really kind of, uh, found fascinating is that younger guys kind of want to date older girls. You said that you've never been hit on more than

when your fertility has been on front front, front, it's not for the people that are listening. Whitney is heavily pregnant three weeks away from popping. Yes, because if I said like, Chris harassed me, they're like, no, you're horrible. What's got, like, what do you think it is? Well, you're just a big billboard for your fertility. I think there's, I think there's a couple of things. I think, and this is something we've texted about, I don't know why comedians have to do this,

where we can't just go into something without going, and we've texted about that. Like, I don't want the audience. Gotta give the billboard. Well, it's in between all of the nodes that you keep on sending me. It's right. Finally got the.

That's supposed to be on the confide app. Yeah. So I think that for me, and I think a lot of women are struggling this right with this right now, or I don't know if they're struggling with it, but I think that they're striving to struggle with it. I'll get there. I think I came off so tough and so hard for so long. I think this just softened me in a way that made men sort of, you know, I spent so much of my career like trying to be one of the guys or kind of try to come off like I wasn't a girl so that they wouldn't try to flirt with me at work or so that I would

get respect or so that I could go on stage and command respect from the audience and not show any vulnerabilities. And I grew up with a mother who, and many people, women of that generation were, who was like, I mean, there's no other way to say it. She was a gold digger. She had to date men for money, and it drove me nuts. Like, there were men in the house that were just, you have to wear this, and I would have to go out to dinners with her and behave so that I wouldn't mess

it up for her, and it was kind of very high-stake situation. Her appearance was everything, and back then, that was your currency. And I just remember going, I'm never going to do this. Like this is, it's disrespectful to myself, it's disrespectful. I just wanted to be self-sufficient kind of before I started dating anybody because I never wanted to be thinking about

the amount of money they were making or I never wanted them to have to take care of me. It was just like, too embarrassing. And so I think that I worked so hard to be independent and that's what I talked about my stand-up. And so I think that by the time I got pregnant, people were kind of like, oh, like, she does have vulnerability. She does have a softness to her.

And I think a lot of women right now are afraid to show that side of ourselves, you know? And I think that there's a lot of strength in vulnerability and there's a lot of strength in showing a soft, quote, feminine side. But right now, I'm trying to like come off so tough. And I'm one of the guys that it's just sort of like, I don't think you realize that that's actually weakening you in a lot of ways.

Why do you think they're trying to do that? What do you think they're trying to get out of it? What do you think's the reason? There's a couple of things. I think for me, I'll be a little bit specific. Like, you know, I had a dad that wanted boys. Like, you know, it was for a very young age. I was just kind of, you know, treated like a boy.

It was all about how successful I could be at sports. It was all about how good my grades could be. My dad would wake me up at the middle of the night and quiz me on spelling work. It was all about getting achievements. And there was an awkwardness about my femininity. And then played sports was rewarded for being tough, became a female comic, sort of had to neuter myself

in a lot of ways. That's my specific thing. But I think that women, I think, I think there's a lot going on, but I think that for me personally, I wanted so badly to just succeed in my career without anyone thinking that I was sleeping around or flirting or using my looks to get ahead. Because the last thing that you would want would be, oh, she shagged her way to the top of the totem pole. So I just always wanted to be like kind of extra hard and sort of extra bull dikes. Compensatory. You just kind of like, I'm one of the guys so that no one would ever flirt

with me so there would never be rooms around that I was like sleeping my way or getting anything that I didn't deserve. Yeah. You know, so I think I overcompensated a little bit. I think I was scared of, you know, having any vulnerability, so I pretended to be tougher than I was. Yeah. I think there was that. I think you're kind of taught at a young age, being a girl's a weakness. It's not a strength.

That's what I was taught. You know, it was like you go on the playground and the boys, they let go play and the girls, they go be careful, you're going to hurt yourself, you're going to rip your tides. You know, that's like pounded into us at a very early age is you're more delicate your weak and I always wanted to like no I'm not I wanted to help my dad you know I want to get on the ladder and help him fix the roof it was like no you don't get to do

that your brother gets to do that you know so I think for me I felt like I had so much to prove you know and and then I think that you know just fear and insecurity you know and I think that, you know, just fear and insecurity, you know, and I think that a lot of times when, you know, you, I was very ambitious and I'm very open about that. And I think I thought I had to sort of just come off really tough so that people took me seriously. Are you seeing a new potential advantage of embodying the vulnerable, the feminine? Is this the new competitive advantage that you think you could get? I really think it is. I think that, again, this is probably easy for me

to say because I have accomplished a lot of my goals. There's a strong argument to say that what I did worked, that I could go in a room full of a bunch of executives and there's three men there and two women there, and whatever energy I came in, it didn't threaten the women. Because I wasn't like using flirting or I wasn't, you know, using feminine advantages or whatever that would look like. Like I always wanted to make sure women liked me, especially in audiences,

you know, and curating that audience. So it maybe it worked. There's an argument, you know, to say that it did, and now is the perfect time to kind of be soft and show that side of myself. But I think that I did have to,rue a certain amount of success in order to give myself permission to be able to be feminine and be soft. Talk to me about that transition, because I don't know, I think if I was to make a prediction over the next 10 years, I think that we're going to see maybe, I would put a little bit down, that we're going to see a flip and that male body dysmorphia is already on track to overtake female body dysmorphia

within about 10 to 15 years. Fascinating. But I think that the crisis from an identity perspective is going to be on women, not on men. I think we have a crisis of masculinity at the moment, but I think burbling below the surface is going to be a crisis of femininity.

I think that I would like to think that the guys are gonna be okay. I can't do as much for the moment, but I think burbling below the surface is going to be a crisis of femininity. I think that I would like to think that the guys are going to be okay. I can't do as much for the girls, so I'm unable to put my finger on the poles, but I would say that men are maybe going to be much more concerned about appearance, and girls are going to be much more concerned about identity. But talk to me about that transition of going from being hard, brash to now having to kind of soften up and allow that. And because I also like, I grew up at a home that was very rough. I mean, you're English. I mean, maybe, you know, isn't it kind of... It's taking Zinnablaad.

Yeah, right? Like... mockery and sarcasm and... Roasting each other. There was a lot of passive aggressive shit. There was a lot of alcoholism. There was a lot of really deep-seated shame and biting bullshit. So by the time I got out in the world, that's also just kind of like how I thought I had to talk to people, I thought that was normal.

And being around male comics all the time, roughs you up a little bit as well. So I had a hard time turning it off like in relationships and such. But I'm sorry, what is the question? Oh, how is your transition? Yeah, how did you find, you've had to go from being that person who is playing the masculine role in some ways,

like the masculine feminine role, which is like even overtuning your masculinity. And now you're like, okay, and now I've got to care about this three weeks to become a fucking mother. You know, it's interesting because it's like my brain gets like a little bit scrambled around this because, you know, in terms of massacred inequalities and feminine qualities, it's like, it's, I can flate them sometimes because I'm like a lot of the qualities that I have used

thus far that I think see masculine have been like, I've been nurturing, I've just nurtured my career. You know what I mean? It's like I treated my career like a child or how I should treat a husband or something. And now I'm kind of, I would nurture other comics. I would nurture the writers that I worked with. I was like, I've always kind of had that, but I never really turned it towards myself or towards a relationship. So now I'm kind of going, I think the main switch for me is that now that I have achieved my goals, I can turn that energy onto a child and a relationship.

I was very clear in my 20s that I was not ready to attract the man that I wanted, that if he came along, he would not be down. So I was very much in my 20s. I was like, I need to become the person that I would want the guy that I would be with that they would actually be interested in. I think that's a pretty noble way to look at developing yourself. Generally, I go to friend David Parall, who is still, he's been with his misses for girlfriend for two years or so, and he's fucking besotted with it, like absolutely in love with

that. And I went to lunch with him when I first moved to Austin about 18 months ago, and we sat down and he's super successful and he's got this big online business and he does a lot of stuff and he's helping people's lives to be better, becoming better writers online. Yeah. And he said, not a realized, I spent most of my 30s making myself into the dad that my future kids want. I was like, wow, that's fucking cool.

I love that. Even though you didn't have the relationship, you didn't have the kids. Now, I mean, love and that honeymoon period of a relationship will do all manner of crazy things to someone's mindset. So who knows that he's not just in like a... Offie Tosa. Offie Tosa, Feverdream.

But yeah, he said that and I was like, that's really lovely. And kind of doing the same thing of turning yourself slowly over time into the person that the partner you want to be within future would be attracted to seems like a cool thing. And it's like the idea that, you know, like I want to have my shit together.

I didn't want to be some mess that he had to clean up even though a lot of you guys love a mess. And I get a little frustrated sometimes because there's times where, you know, the meet guys that I'm talking to and they're like, and then my last girlfriend this and I have to get her and she, I'm still paying for a therapy and then I'm still.

And I'm like, I might not be crazy enough. Like if you need to clean up a mess, like I'm not your person, I tried so hard to have my shit together. So the time a man came along, I didn't seem like a hassle or like it didn't feel like I was their daughter or some weird shit. And, you know, but I, I do think that like,

you know, I had a situation where both my parents were sick. They both had strokes, very young. So my entire late 20s and 30s, they were in beds. And I was like, you know what? Parenting doesn't start when you have a kid. You should start parenting your kids when you're in your 20s. Start taking care of yourself so your kids don't have to take care of you when they're in their 20s.

So I started thinking like that at a very young age. And I started going, like, being a wife doesn't start when you meet your guy. Let me start that now. Let me not have a bunch of weird exes around. Let me not have a bunch of like, let me just start taking care of myself and not having a bunch of messes that they have to clean up

and a bunch of weirdo guys that are gonna be, you know? I always like thought that way, very early on. There's something, I had this conversation with the director of relationship science at hinge and she wrote a book, really interesting lady. And she was saying, maybe related to that, people find, and you do this with friends too, you meet somebody like, oh my God,

we've got such a connection, there's such a spark here. But what you don't realize is that person's sparky with everybody, it's just called, like, really, really over tuned charm or charisma. Yeah, which is usually a red flag. It's a coping mechanism. It could be fucking anything, but it's not you that's special necessarily. That's not to say that sparks don't exist. Some people do come together. But a lot of times I, okay, is this person like this with me because of me?

Or do they do it to the barista that serves them the coffee and the parking attendant that helps them with their ticket? Like are they just, you know, pausing this all over the place? Yeah, that's a really interesting one. I mean, that brings up something that really bothers me when I see a minor like here, girls, but like he loved bomb me and then I didn't hear from it. It's like, or he just liked you and you got whack.

And then he stopped, you know, or, you know, or is it this pathological thing of what you're talking about where someone comes in and tries to like, razzle dazzle stopped, you know, or is it this pathological thing of what you're talking about where someone comes in and tries to like razzle dazzle people and you know that's just the thing. There's definitely something alluring about aloofness. Again, just, you know, it doesn't need to be about relationships. Friendships. There is something where you're someone that's too keen with anything, like you call them a keynote, it's like, oh, dude, come on, stop texting, stop calling, stop doing whatever. you know, it's like, oh, dude, come on, stop texting, stop calling, stop doing whatever. But if it's the right person, is it cringey? I don't know.

What causes two people to become intertwined romantically or socially or whatever. A lot of different ways that can happen. But there's definitely a way that you can make yourself more or less alluring by, you know, not just being present all the fucking time. Yeah. Right? If there's someone coming along,

this is definitely something I've realized since, who do you say, like socially batting above my average over the last few years and constantly being in rooms with people and I'm like, Jesus fucking Christ, like hold it together, hold it together. As that's happened, the best thing that I've learned is just to

leave the room or say goodbye or say fewer things than you think that you need to. Interesting. And I've definitely noticed that with myself, people's behaviour has changed at least a little bit over the last couple of years to me as they now start to see whatever the fuck they think they see, which is to me just still like this weird guy from Britain. But their behavior is changing. I also noticed that when someone's like, you know, they use brevity in their brief and they, hey man, did you just want to say whatever, and then they're off your life, yeah, that guy's nice.

So opposed to that, it's a little bit. Oh, I wish I knew this podcast existed when I was in my 20s because I was the cringiest. And you're making me think of some of the most successful people, allow others to project onto them. So, what do you mean? Just say as little as possible and let people just project on.

Someone, start with the fact that someone already likes you, right? And then it's all downhill from there. The more you try to over talk or over apologize or control them, you know, look at your motives and what you're saying and what you're saying it. Hey, how are you good to see you? If that's just all it is, hey, do you need anything? Then it just turns into being unctuous. Then it just turns into you're trying to make them like you and people feel it.

Like people feel that energy, that desperate predatory energy. And like Paraselton fascinates me because she will say as little as possible publicly. And she just allows us to project onto her. She doesn't tell, Beyonce, never when's you never hear her speak. She's done a couple interviews, she's done Oprah here and there. She did a documentary, but she says as little as possible. Adam Sandler doesn't do interview, I mean Leonardo Capriot doesn't do interviews. And as someone that just talks for a living, there's times like, right, we'll try to, you've already kind of said everything you need to say. Now you're just confusing people, trying to control them, micromanage them,

or just fill space because you're nervous. Yeah, that's the space for people to kind of show you who they are or what they are. No matter who it is, right, in the fucking person on the street or the person that's ringing you. Definitely thinking about what happens when someone tries too hard to be not forthcoming, but they're like pliable in a way. And I think this is fundamentally why simp, uh, uh, you'd Simpy behavior amongst men in particular, is so it causes even in men and some women, apart from the women that are benefiting from it. It causes so much sort of aversion and discomfort, because there's a sense that if this person is this pliable with this girl,

what is there to say that they're not just going to, you know, sneaky fucker syndrome, I think it's referred to in biology, where the... it's a slip-streaming effect where like the lesser male will try and do sneaky shit to try and like get access, sexual access to females. And yeah, there's something about being super, super pliable that makes someone feel unreliable, like you want to know that your friend, even if they're your best friend, has limits. Yes. Because if they just continue to fold and you say, okay, so where are you?

If I just keep digging and digging, do I hit anything solid or do I just come out the other side of you because you will continue to fold around me. That's not what you want from a friend. That's not what you'd want from a partner. It's not what you'd want from a parent. It's not what you'd want from a parent. It's not what you'd want from a member of your community. You would want someone who is courteous, but firm, right? Like here's my boundaries and I'm going to care about you up until the point at which you get to something that appropriates my limit.

There was this, I actually learned a lot about my own energy and probably what I give off on dates or this or that because sometimes when I try to go like, don't try too hard, don't try too hard. That's the thing about trying to be soft or whatever. Like, I can't like try to be like, sometimes I'll come up like silly. I'm like, just be who you are.

I know I already have like a intense energy about me. I do actually, if anyone is looking for some kind of way to, you know, look in the mirror about your energy at quaint therapy as a miracle. And there's ways to do it where you don't have to own a horse. You don't have to. Hang on, hang on, hang on. Or just work with prey animals and stuff. Fucking you, right.

Are you talking to horses? You're not talking to horses. Basically, being around horses are because they're prey animals and they're herd animals. Their only reward is serenity. Any other emotion besides complete serenity boils down to fear. So if you're truly doing equine therapy with a horse that's not been, you know, broken, that doesn't have a bit on or a bridle where it's being forced to be near you, it will choose to be near you only if you're emanating complete serenity and being present in the moment.

So if you're next to a horse and you're like, what, I gotta take a picture because I want it to, that just boils down to fear to them. So they're just like, I feel fear, is there a, is there a, is there a mountain line? Yeah, they start to go like, well, I gotta take it, there's a problem, right? And so can you go to a ranch

that will do therapy with horses? Yes. If there's such a thing as a therapy horse. Yes, absolutely. That's like a fucking whatever it is, emotional support animal. What was this? My friend Daniel Slas, Scottish comedian.

I love Daniel. He's fucking fantastic. He's got a bit about all of the different weird animals that he's seen in emotional support peacock. And he's got this bit about an emotional support hamster that this woman uses like a fucking stress ball. And then when she kills it, she throws it away and takes another one out

of her pocket and starts going. So whenever I think about emotional support, animals I do this. Yeah, so you can do equine therapy with trained horses. And it's very simple. Like literally, I mean, you can even if you have, if there's a ranch near you, you can ask the volunteer and go just stand in a stable,

in a paddock with a horse, I know it's the note sounds crazy. See if the horse wants to be near you. See if the horse wants to gravitate towards your energy. If you're being in the present moment and you're not unctuous in any way, you're not needy in any way, you're not trying to get the horse's attention,

you're not trying to get the horse's love. If you're just taking care of yourself, they will move naturally towards you. They don't need anything from you because they're prey animals, they're grazers. They can get grass at any time, where dogs want to be near you because they're waiting for food.

That dogs aren't loyal. I love them, but they have a vested interest in being near you, right? I'm like, my dog loves me, and then a stranger opens their corridor and my dog jumps inside. I'm like, wait, horses have no need, and no legions to you, right?

So it's an amazing exercise that had really helped me work on my energy because I'd be like standing next to this horse, standing next to me, they're grazing everything's good, and I'd be like, okay, well, are they going to move soon? Because I just, what if they notice something different, or what if they, and then the horse starts moving away? And then I start going, oh, it moved away, I'm such a piece of shit, they're moving for, they just want to be as far from you as possible. And then when I start going, okay, well, this isn't going to work.

I guess I should just, okay, what should I do later? I guess I need to go home. I need to work out and then all of a sudden the horse is coming back to you. Do, do you need someone? Or do you get someone when you do equine therapy to help you integrate? Because it's not like the horse is going, Hey, hey, chill out. We need to work on you. Hey, lady, chill out a little bit.

You need to think less about fucking the house. It's a great way to see the energy you're giving off. It's like a thermometer. It's exactly it. And I didn't realize that I was giving off a desperate needy energy. And that, I mean, people listening are like, yeah, we could tell, you know, I'm a comedian for a- Didn't need a horse weather pain for that.

I'm like, you know, I'm gone stage for a living and I'm like, love me, love me, like me, like me. And then, you know, I would move, which is a very important skill is being an entertainer, is making sure that people on stage like you, but as soon as you get off stage, like you can't be bringing that energy, it people. So it's about being self-contained and it's about going like, I'm just going to be in the truth of this present moment with this person instead of trying to control whether they like me

or not, because when you're trying to make someone like you, it's very repellent. Yeah, and it's interesting that the horse is able to pick up on it. That being said, the mental fucking gymnastics that horse girls will go through to just be able to spend more time on a ranch. It's like my horse is doing therapy with me.

Yeah, my fucking horse is doing therapy with me. So I actually need to go and see my therapist at the moment. I would go to a therapist and just lie to them because I would try to make the therapist like me or try to impress them or try to be their most fucked up or try to be the most recovered or whatever it was. Jimmy Car told me this thing while I was with him saying the true definition of an entertainer is if you don't like me, I don't like me. Outsourcing your self-worth to the

crowd is comedians desperately want to be loved, but entirely on their own terms. Two real Jimmy, it's too real. Yeah. It's way too real. You know, so I think it's like, you know, what you do for a living, we're all, you know, we're reading the comments. We want to make sure the people listening to us like us, we want to be perfect, we want to get it right.

But then you go on a date and you're like trying to ace the test and you're just trying to ascertain if we like have good chemistry and we can be alone together kind of thing. So I found that I had a really hard time ascertaining the kind of energy I was giving off. This person from the other side is just seeing some on performing. You're just performing for me here.

And then you perform and then you get them. Then there are in love with someone that isn't you. There are in love with the person that's on stage or the equivalent of the stage now. And they go, I love you and you're like, you don't know me. Yeah, you're in love with someone that isn't you. They're in love with the person that's on stage or the equivalent of the stage, you know. And they go, I love you and you're like, you don't know me. Yeah, you're in love with that version of me. Yeah, you've never met me yet.

And then, or one day, the jig is up and you're exhausted and then you're yourself and like, you've never met me yet. It's such an awesome line. That's really, really cool. I did this breath work class in Austin on a Thursday and I went last night. And if you've ever, it's not super intense breath work, but it's enough to regulate the

nervous system. And one of the things, if you've never done it for extended half hour plus period of time, it's a little bit like psychedelics. It's a bit more difficult to hold on to control, or you just see patterns arise a little bit more easily. And my executive function, that's what you kind of notice as you came in. It's like me partnering around saying,

hey, man, can we just do this and blah, blah, blah. Like that's always on. And I wonder, I think this is probably quite a common pattern for the sort of people that are listening that you can afford to listen to us waffle on, you know, talking about human psychology or whatever. There's a degree of like wanting to do it right. Am I doing it right? Like, is this, could I do it better? How can I optimize this? I wonder if I breathe a little bit more quickly, would it be? If I breathe a little bit more, I hope that the lady that's teaching

the class thinks that I'm doing it right. Like, if she comes near with the thing, like that, energy of just, it's like an insecurity in some ways. And one of the weird externalities that comes from this is it can be very, very successful, right? It drives you to be so detail oriented to focus on things to a degree of minutia that gives you an unbelievable competitive advantage. But the felt sense of that can be you tripping over these tiny, tiny little things and permanently being vigilant, right? Like the prey animal thing, you're being vigilant for what's the next thing that needs to be fixed. And the Mandy, the lady that takes the class yesterday, pipes up every so often. It's fucking great.

It's like sound healing with breath work. And then final 30 minutes she just lets you do whatever you want. I pay I pay someone to watch me nap on it first. This is for a good amount of time. Yeah. But she said at the very beginning of the class of partway through, she said, don't forget you're not fixing a problem. I was like, fuck, that's good. You're not trying to fix a problem. You're just doing the thing. I also think that these are survival mechanisms that served us really well. And it helps them in a 12 step program called adult children and alcoholics.

It's basically if you grew up in an alcoholic home in order for alcoholism to be present, alcohol doesn't have to be present. So if you didn't see drinking, it's fine. If you grew up around any kind of chaos as a child, you became a parent to fight child. So if in any way you had to parent your parents or take care of yourself too young,

we're the kids that were so mature for our age and we were the old soul and were the ones that made our own lunch and you know what basically went, I'm on my own here. These adults do not have their shit together. It looks like mature, but what it actually is is just survival. That's correct.

So I grew up now called a comb, divorce, things are being at the lot of fighting. I had to be hyper vigilant. It served me really well as a child. My mom was going through a bad divorce. She drank a lot. She didn't have the tools we all have. That generation didn't have podcasts like this.

They didn't have these stuff. They had space. They didn't have sound bath classes and stuff. They were just drinking and whiteitenuckling through it. And so anytime I had a need or a want, she was very overwhelmed, she was crying. At a very early age, it was like, don't have any needs,

constantly make sure that, you know, you're self-contained, self-deprived, make sure this is okay, because if she comes home and sees that this is messed up, she's gonna have a coneption, then I'm gonna have to deal with that. So it really helps, there's a step in the program that really helps you kind of like sort of anthropomorphize

these voices and be able to do this little exercise where if, you know, I'm in the sound bath class and it's like, are you doing it right? And what if the instructor doesn't think you're doing it well enough and they don't think they're good and I'm going, I know what that is. Don't need you right now.

You're gonna need you to sit back on the bench. Thank you so much. You helped me out when I was six. Buy bitch. So you're kind of able to sort of like personify it in a way. Some people call it their shadow, their inner bully, whatever the fuck you wanna call it. But there's sometimes that I come off stage

and it's like that wasn't good enough and did it out. And like thank you. I wanna be better at this location. That is actually when I do need you. So yeah, get in the fucking game because I'm shooting a special in a week and let's like crush this, you know, but I don't need it when I'm in meditation glass.

So I like have those little exercises I do that help. What are the modalities that have helped you go from where you were in your 20s to someone that feels like they've got the shit sorted now or at least a little bit close to being sold. Oh God, a 12 step program really helped me. I just feel like people, you know, talk about it when it's like A-A or NA, when it's like, you know, recovering from... What's NA? NA is narcotics anonymous. Like, I think people really talk about these 12 step programs when it's recovering from a substance, but when you're in ACA or L&N, it's more about recovering from the internal drug cabinet, which is cortisol and adrenaline.

So the drama addicts, right? The sort of, you know, if you grew up and now call a comb, you know, you might gravitate towards being in relationships with people that you have to fix or rescue, or you're in these toxic addictive relationships that, you know, aren't really good, but you can't really get out. And you're finding yourself being the person that's like, I hate drama, but you're always in some addictive relationships that aren't really good, but you can't really get out and you're finding yourself being the person that's like,

I hate drama, but you're always in some kind of drama. So for me, I really had to get a handle on that because I was in relationships with people that I had to rescue. I was dating people I had to fix. I thought I had to take care of everybody. I was taking care of friends. I was just always the crisis person.

You feel alive in a time of crisis. That's just our comfort zone. That's really served me in some of my work situations, but not in my personal life. It's a giant waste of time. Wasn't taking care of myself. You know, the three M's we call it. Mothering, micro managing, martyring.

You know, we're putting everybody else first, putting yourself last. That just came naturally to me. Doing that program really helped me to not have guilt, saying no to people, being able to stand up for myself, not doing anything out of obligation, because I was wasting so much time. Are you finding yourself people pleasing a lot?

Yep, and people pleasing we say is a form of assholory, because you're doing something out of obligation. Like, if I said to you, like, hey, we come to my podcast and you're like, I don't have to do it. Don't do me the favor, because that's so embarrassing to me. Do you know what I mean?

It's patronizing. So it's a lot of people pleasing. They call us the exploding doormats. Super nice all the time to everyone. And then one day you just fucking snap and you know, you're actually secretly keeping score. It's like, and you're doing it to make other people like you.

And so I had to like, you know, rewire a lot of that shit. I got a lot of it for my mom. And like, deprogram what I believe was expected of me. Neil Strauss, guy that wrote the game. Now, like fucking re-awakened, you know, totally aligned sort of meditation person, it seems, I saw a tweet from him a couple of weeks ago that said unspoken expectations are premeditated resentments.

Jesus Christ. Yup, we said codependence breeds resentments, right? Exactly it. So it's like being in relationships and going, you're like, like little addages, I do well with platitudes, like they just do complicated brains, I think do really well with little things, you're like, little additives. I do well with platitudes. Like, they just do complicated brains, I think do really well with little things, you know? Maxims and aphorisms are a huge way

to synthesize down a bigger message into something that you can remember, right? Like, here is this very large idea about how the story we tell ourselves largely determines our experience of it. Because if you heart rates high, after you've done a workout You feel great, but if your heart rate just randomly was high in traffic

You would go to the hospital and then there's this bit from Marcus Arraileus that says the whole universe is changed and Life itself is but what we deem it life itself is but what we deem it I think it's like nine words and most profound nine words in philosophy. Yeah Life itself is but what we deem do encapsulates all of this big thing. So, like, I understand the quote-porn and that book-carrying people with all of these different... These different references is... I don't know, maybe it just gets tiresome, but for me, these are the way markers that remind me, it's like a little mantra. It's like, okay, does my fucking desire for unproven self-esteem again.

And I remember Ryan Holiday saying, self-belief is overrated, generate evidence. Fantastic. There we go. I'll just... I know what to do. Yeah, exactly. And it's... I know, if you lost in the world's kind of confusing at the moment, and people really don't know where to find their meaning from, and should I do the career, do the mother thing, should I rely on a partner, can I trust

relying on a partner? Is he or she going to be fucking baking in porn or fucking Kardashians or whatever it might be? So, all right, we'll find somewhere firm and firm things can be little philosophies and principles that you're relying on. So yeah, I'm- Do you say baking and porn? Maybe. Sure. What's baking mean? I don't know. Like, just like fucking immersing themselves like- Oh, got it, got it, got it, got it, got it, got it, got it, got it, got it, got it, got it, Sure, what's baking mean? I don't know like just like fucking immersing themselves like oh

Marinating and fucking got it got it got it got it got it got it got it got it. I think much she was in porn That would also happen okay actually Okay, so you said this ALA thing ACA Total miracle because it's also free medicine It's totally free working with animals started rescuing dogs fostering dogs I know this is gonna sound like crazy animal lady, but it really helped me because I realized I had such self-esteem stuff, self-esteem stuff,

and I didn't have a dog. I didn't have something that was just giving me unconditional love. And that really helped me. I had some intimacy stuff, and I realized a lot of my toughness had to do with being scared of intimacy, being scared of being loved, maybe being scared of being rejected, or if you actually see me, I had some intimacy stuff and I realized a lot of my toughness had to do with being scared of intimacy, being scared of being loved, maybe being scared of being rejected, or if you actually see me, you're gonna reject me kind of thing. So animals really help me with that because it gives

you, like you, you know, just at the right, a little bit of data. Like, this dog kind of, you know, I kind of had to start there. No matter how much of a piece of shit I might think I am and how much I fear that the world thinks I am my dog still loves. I'm doing pretty good. Yeah, this thing that I think is cool. He's alive. He seems to be happy that I'm here. You had this. I heard you say this quote. I think it's to Chris having a kid or maybe it was him having a kid is the opportunity to finally love something that isn't just yourself. I can't wait. The clarity that comes with just even being pregnant right now has been in the emotional maturity that has come with it.

I highly recommend being pregnant ladies. It really, well, because you kind of just... Pregnancy's a therapy. That's the fucking whole take. I know, I know. Well, because it's like, I mean, I spend so much time like going like, should I do this? Do I need to do this?

And I think that I've always had this ticking clock on my brain as a performer. It's like, I'm a woman, I'm getting older, am I gonna expire, or am I just gonna get tired? I know I didn't wanna work like an animal forever. I knew that in my 20s and 30s, I'm gonna grind like an animal, and then I'm gonna have a personal life. I always saw it that way.

And maybe that's a little bit like psycho. I mean, in my 20s, I was in a couple relationships that were kind of like two people kind of both trying to avoid intimacy sort of thing, but I wasn't wasting a lot of time dating. I just, I didn't know what to do with myself in terms of dating. I know that I wasn't ready to be serious with anybody,

and I was like, let me just check all these career boxes and then I'll be able to do the personal life thing. I couldn't manage doing both at once. I always remember, I had this thought when I was 16, and I was doing martial arts, I was doing Kung Fu or something and there was this retreat that we went to and one of the guys that was there was in the army and Mum had beaten it into me from very early age

that I was gonna go to university. First person, I think, first person in my family to go to university, like fucking big extended family but one of the only few people to go. And she'd always said, you're going to university, you're going to university. But there was this point when we went to this retreat for Kung Fu. And this guy was there who was in the army and he was maybe a few years older than me. And he was

just explaining about what life was like. And even then, I was 16 before social media, before telephones, before anything, right? When before telephones, before mobile phones. And so it's significantly less complex world than the one that we find ourselves in now. And the one that many people that are listening might only know. Right. And I remember looking at this guy who was explaining about his experience in the army and thinking, wow, I would love to do that

purely because all of my efforts would be committed to one thing and I would never need to make decisions about life. And that kind of makes me think about the same energy that's coming from the opportunity to finally love something that isn't yourself. It's like, all I do, keep this thing alive, make it happy. Yep. Yep. Yep. And, you know, and it's, and really quick, just in terms of the animal thing, I also think that we waste a lot of time, you know, trying to, you know, as we say in program, like, you know, don't try to meet internal needs with external things, you know, whether it's drugs, whether it's alcohol, whether it's people.

And for me, I was never a drugs and alcohol person, but I was definitely a people person. With if I just have this many friends, if this high status person likes me, maybe I'm worth something. If this guy is attracted to me, maybe that means that I'm not, you know, totally nothing. But like having a lot of emotional needs met from animals really did, I think, keep me out of a lot of trouble.

And I think we're, you know, I've heard on your show talking about like, you know, people not dating as much anymore. I know that's in a lot of ways a bad thing. But when you're in your 20s, like, how do you get your emotional needs met? So you're not wasting time and hurting other people and hurting yourself being in relationships you shouldn't be in.

You know, and I think I kind of accidentally hacked that. By fostering dogs, I had like all these animals I was always fostering and I'm like, crazy dog lady, but like at least I didn't have a kid before I was ready. At least I didn't marry someone I had no business marrying and I feel like that could have happened. Right. So you had your emotional needs met by surrogate children. Yes.

Furry, furry surrogate children. Yes. But now it's like, you know, I gotta say a lot of the things that I've been working so hard to try to get this clarity of like, am I in this friendship because of obligation? Am I in this friendship because I'm confusing love and pity and then you get pregnant. And you're just like, yeah, I, you're a once a month friend.

You're not a once a week friend. You might be like a once a year friend, quite frankly. Or like, do I need to buy this person a thank you gift? Because they had, no, I texted thank you. That's enough. You know, there's like, just sort of a calm. Simplicity. There's a simplicity that comes over you.

There is a relief of bondage of self. Like, you know, what we do for a living, there's just kind of this narcissism you can't escape of like, I wake up every morning, I'm like, how can I improve myself today? How can I create something today? What do I need to do to stay relevant? You know, just, you know, like, you know what?

For today, I'm just gonna eat well. I'm gonna take care of myself. And then, like, really commit to all these routines that I've kind of pretended to commit to for so long. You know, in terms of taking care of myself. For me, I, you know, there's a lot of work about, like, the inner child and, like, nurturing your inner. Now that I have a literal inner child,

it's kind of, it really is all started to come together. So when I see people who have a kid and then their lives just get amazing, I'm like, oh, I get that because you really start walking the walk. That's so interesting. It's very illuminating to think about, you know, like the forcing function of the kid bringing all of your bullshit to bear. It's like, look, you can't, you can't be bothering. Again, I heard Chris talk about this when you guys spoke where he said, when his kids were young, his boys would be mastering back and forth in the group chat. Did you see that such and such a person did this? And he just didn't even, he's like, I'm not even fucking got time to read this. So all of the extraneous bullshit gets filtered. But I wonder whether, and I certainly see this with work, I saw this with

uni as well, that the adrenaline of having something very important and time demanding and honored a deadline and dependent on you, whether that be a career or an education or, you know, a political ideology that you're fighting for on the internet or whatever it is, it's exhilarating. Yeah. Right? It is almost like a surrogate child in a way, and you're applying an awful lot of pressure

and a lot of attention toward this thing. And there is a sense of like, yes, like I'm bringing something to bed, like this is manifesting in the world. But it's, I know it's like a simulation of what you're actually working toward, right? And it's also, it's like no one, if you and my, when I was in my 20s told me,

like hey, money and fame is not gonna do it for you. I'd be like fuck you, yes it will. You know, like it, everyone's like, it's really just about family and you can't take the money with you. And you're like, okay, I'm poor. So I like, none of that shit, man. No one wants to hear that shit.

So that's not what I'm about to say in any capacity. But to me, I kind of go like, yes, I've accomplished all of these goals that I had. I've had success. I'm financially solvent and you're like, and now what? Yeah. And now what? Okay, now am I just, I think you've talked about this.

You have like one person you're doing your career at. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like I'm doing that I just did a six special. I'm like this, was this just for this other female comedian to know that I did another one? What is it like pick your enemies? Yeah, well I mean, the question of, and now what?

And now what? Is so fucking interesting. Like just keep running that back, right? Okay, what are you doing? Okay, well I'm doing the career thing. Okay, and then, oh, I'm, when I do this career, I'll get the promotion, okay? And then I will be able to afford the house.

And then, and you just keep on running it all the way forward. And you go, oh, yeah, there's nothing, there's no there there, eventually. Did it, like, did it, did it work? Did it make your dad dad love you? Like, did it, because I go, like, what's the thing I'm going for? Like, okay, both my parents are dead. Trying to get their attention that's in there.

Okay, it didn't unbreak my heart from when I was 31 and that thing happened. It didn't make me not getting asked to prom go, you know, it's like you're kind of like, didn't do, oh, right, now what? And I feel like I was working towards all this to be able to go, I need to check all these boxes. So when I have a family, I'm not resentful,

and I'm not still running around trying to get these boxes checked, because I did watch a mother try to have a career and I was slowing her down. I felt it. I absolutely felt it. How much of that, you know, it's a really lovely narrative that you've got woven together here, which is, I did the hard things in my 20s

and part of my 30s that enabled me to be a mother now. Can you remember how much of that was planned in advance and how much of that is you post-hoc rationalizing it now and being like, well, this is a cute story that puts a bow on the top of this box? That's very interesting. I mean, I think that I, you know, I think that at the time I presented as one of these women that goes, well, I don't want kids. I always said it.

I don't want kids, which is that would not protest too much, obviously, right? We all become what we hate, whatever. But I definitely presented as, no, I'm not having kids, I'm focusing on my career. Like, I'm never going to, I mean, I had a TV show that was about how I was afraid of commitment and didn't want to get married.

This was, I was just broadcasting my damage to everybody in some way, maybe to ask to be healed or, you know, whatever it was, or I was, you know, very much, like, kind of grew up in public. So I did get a lot of feedback, which was interesting. Like, it's interesting to grow up in front of people and show all your wounds and then have people kind of confront you about them.

It was weird. Like, I wanted to get better. I wanted to change. I wanted to grow. But I definitely knew I didn't want to have a family in my 20s. I was like, because I don't want to do what my parents did. And I'm too afraid of what's in my, I'm too broken, you know, was my narrative. And then by the time my 30s came around, I was like, I got engaged.

Wasn't quite right. I was really trying, but I just wasn't, I wasn't healed yet. I just wasn't healed yet. And I think that I always had, maybe it was my co-dependence was saving me because I didn't wanna hurt anybody. Like I really don't wanna hurt anyone. I really, when I'm in relationships and I know it's not. That's interesting.

That you were almost people pleasing, the imaginary partner that you hadn't yet met. I don't wanna hurt them. I know that if I try and do this thing and it's not gonna go well, then they'll be sad. And if they're sad, I'm gonna feel like an absolute fucking piece of shit. And I can't fake it. I just, I can't. I can't lie. I mean, I think it's being a go well, then they'll be sad. And if they're sad, I'm gonna feel like an absolute fucking piece of shit. And I can't fake it.

I just, I can't. I can't lie. I mean, I think it's being a terrible fucking liar. It being a comedian, like I see these people that are like, if you have 80% of what you want, you should settle for that. And I'm like, but then how do you, I'm not gonna lie to this person because then I won't respect them

because if they believe the lie, then I lose respect for them. And like you just bought that. Like I just, I guess I might be too much of a romantic, which is not how people would see me, but I kind of like really wanted this thing where two people could be totally authentic together. And I wasn't capable of being authentic

until fairly recently. There was a guy, a super successful guy who completely stopped doing all online content to switch to a different sort of a business. And I was at a retreat with him a few months ago, maybe four months ago, something like that. And I was talking to him and I was saying, you know, he stopped doing the online content thing because he had a bigger project and a bigger business that he loved and he felt like he was contributing to the world in a bad way through.

But another thing that he said to me, which is really fucking stuck with me, was he found himself saying things not only as content, but also to his friends and the reason why he stopped being quite so social. He found himself telling people stories in public that he then felt like he needed to live up to in private. So he was weaving and that was the reason I asked about the beautiful bow that's upon the box. It's like, this is a nice story, right? But how much of it is just a good thing that not only you can tell yourself, but it sounds

great on a podcast. And how much of that is really there. And it's really hard, you know, it's not the sort of thing that you're going to unpack like that. But that one fucking sentence I've sat in a jacuzi was like fucking 16 guys, the gayest thing ever. But, and he says this thing and he's me having like a mini fucking existential crisis, is the heavens open, I'm like wow, that's super profound, I must remember to write that down. And yeah, I was telling myself stories and telling stories in public that I had to live up to in private.

Okay, then I'll tell you the ugly parts that don't have the bone, necessarily, is I do think that you know, and I sometimes I get a little bit wishy-washy about saying things that I feel like only apply to forward-facing people, you know, I'm like, how does this not applicable? But everybody now has social media, everybody now is public in some, you know, kind of way. And there's a sort of microversion of what we do for everybody. And I think that starting a podcast, I, you know, look, I had done a special a year, was kind of, you know, what you do is a comedian,

you tour around the country, then you start a podcast, and you're kind of broadcasting all of your personal details of your life, you're talking about dating people, you're talking about sexual stuff, and I think it hurt me. I definitely think I had to start really looking at that and just going like, would the guy that I wanna be would sign up for this?

And maybe being completely open about all of my sexual conquests in the past and so on and so forth. Which is half the time that you're joking, whatever it is, but I just kind of was like, I don't know if the guy that I want to be would want to be with a public figure. Let me give you this. So one of my smartest friends, Mary Harrington, one person you need to get on your podcast is Louise Perry. So she wrote the case against the sexual revolution. Yes. Mary is like, she's just another version of Louise, from the UK, very smart lady. She came up with this idea of digital modesty.

Digital modesty, she says, that there needs to be boundaries about what people share on the internet. She's got different ones. She's like a little bit more kind of recluse, and she's a writer rather than a podcast so I guess that makes a little bit of a difference as well. But she talks about, I'll never post photos of my kids where I live, the places that go to it like, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, like she's got this big list. And it's a set of principles that she doesn't cross.

I don't think a partner exists on the internet. Brett Cooper just got engaged from the daily wire. I think the first and last time anyone on the internet is going to see her fiance future husband. It's like the back of his head in a photo of them getting engaged in Roma, wherever it was. And she came on and she said, I got engaged and it was this thing. She spent maybe four minutes talking about it and then said, and that's the last time that I'm going to talk about my partner. And it was like,

he's not on the internet. He doesn't want to be on the internet. And I love him for it. And it's like that digital modesty, but you're totally right as well. You can be a person who is living the most normal, non-public-facing life in the world, but you've got, you know, 2000 followers on Instagram and your friends from school are still keeping up to date with what you do via Facebook. Of course. You have these rules too, and in some ways, those people are even more intimate in your lives because they've been a part of it for so long and they know your cousins and they know where Mom and Dad live and blah, blah, blah.

And it was hard to develop intimacy with people when I have such an intimate relationship with the people that have read my book and listened to my podcast and then you sit down with someone that you've been with for six months and they're like, I didn't know you struggle with eating stuff and I'm like, well, I wrote a book up, what do you wait?

And you're like, oh, wait a second. Like, you haven't heard everything that I've said, you know, like, and then it's this weird thing where you're like, you're like, am I attracting people that wanna be with someone that's like this and then I have to live up to the person. You also have a degree of like narcissism guilt about the presumption that people would have seen the thing

that you, it's like what, you didn't read my fucking book. But I didn't, but which by the way, thank God you didn't. You wouldn't be here if you had. But also it's more like, oh, I don't wanna make the assumption. Obviously that you didn't, but I also, like, we can talk about other things too. And I've already talked about this too much. I don't even, but then they feel like they're left out of things.

They'll be at the airport and someone will be like, I love your book, you had moved me so much when you talked about this. And then they're like, wait a second, when you were engaged and I'm like, well, yeah, I mean, it just hasn't come out. Page 235. And then yeah, totally.

And guys are like, why do these strangers know more about you than I do? And I'm like, well, cause I don't, I mean, this is why I think for a lot of people, regardless of how big or small the platform is, as soon as you start to broadcast things about yourself on the internet, even to your, you know, thousand, yeah, thousand friends on Instagram, you then create another U out there.

There is you, there is this and then there is the U that is the online persona and people will make judgments about that. Tell you who I think is patient fucking zero for what we're talking about, fucking what's the name Alex Cooper Cooper, from Call Her Daddy. Yeah. Yeah. This is a girl who built her platform talking about like the gluck, gluck 7,000, how to give a good blowjob on an episode, whatever, if a podcast.

And just rolls forward, extoling the virtues of casual sex and no strings attached, attachment, and treat them like you don't like him. And this is what I got up to last night, and marriage is a car, and you don't need to get into relationship and familyhood, and you can do the girl boss thing and sisterhood forever. And then for the last three years, it's been dating this guy, and then like fucking like a transition,

just fucking gender reveals herself to be like a fucking matronly. And girls, there was rose petals in the proposal, it was so beautiful and stuff. And I'm like, do you know the wake of the cultural, like, aftershock that's occurred behind you, downstream of all of these girls believing this ideology that you, for a good amount of time, for like two or three years one thing, you know, and that must of course, I'm sure that in her,

like she'll be able to feel that discord. It's too easy for me to say, you know, she was saying one thing and doing another and fuck her for that because, you know, I'm sure that she's struggled internally with that unless she's complete narcissist. No, I don't think she is. But there is a bit that goes like,

dude, come on, like think about all of the fucking girls that have cast off relationships and done the casual sex thing to allow guys to use and discard them. Yeah. Thinking that that was true feminine liberation, meanwhile, you were getting ready to get engaged. Right, right, right.

That is wild. I didn't, it's interesting because, you know, as someone that in my standup, I talked a lot about that stuff in my 20s, but I'm actually really shy about that stuff, other like sex otherwise, like I'm weirdly shy about it. So, you know, I haven't heard all of it, but yeah, I mean, you know, look, Snoop Dogg said,

you can't make a ho-house wife, maybe you can. I don't know. I don't know, but I definitely do feel like one of the, you know, biggest problems people do now. We were kind of talking about it right as we came in as they over-pathologized themselves and kind of trauma-bond. On the first date, all of a sudden,

people are talking about their depression and their anxiety. And this is what happened to me when I was a kid and my ex cheated on me and it's like, why the fuck are you doing this on a first date? Like this is not first, I mean, that's something you share way, way later and I think people are getting a relationship

way too soon because they're trauma bonding too soon. But I do feel like because I tend to kind of over share for a living on podcasts, that's what we do, you know, to try to help other people. And then I'm like, oh God, I hope any guy that I could ever date would never listen to any of this. Well, there's something else about that digital modesty side, which is if you're already showing all of you on the internet, where is left to go that has additional intimacy beyond that? But then you just go like,

am I changing everything about my career for this one person? And the answer is kind of yes. You're going like, I'm not gonna post this video in case this one person I'm interested in might see it, which is a wild sacrifice to me. This might not even work out. But like if he scrolls past this and sees me being like, glah, glah, or whatever, I don't know, whatever it looks like.

It's just doing, like I'm gonna lose the guy. This is, this would make the kind of guy that I want. Probably recoil and flee and go like no thanks. Yeah, it's, I mean, you know, we were talking, you mentioned before about people pleasing. And what you're basically doing there is saying the words that you think the person wants to hear without thinking the things that justify the thing

that you're saying. It's like, I'll say yes to going to the party despite not wanting to go to the party because I want to please the person. Even though if they could see that in a texture of my own thoughts, they would be like, they would just feel so patronized and disgusted at the fact that I don't think they're able to take the news.

And then also, by the way, like, what do you think they're in a canceled party? The insecure narcissism that I'm a piece of shit in the center of the universe of that, of like, well, if I don't go, they're going to what? Cancel it, they'll be fine. We obsess about what other people think about us to really realize they're not thinking about us. I think that's the same with people trying to go through breakups in relationships and they're like, how would they ever be able to live without this? I mean, they're entirely, yeah, it's

like they're going to be fine. They may even be better. Yeah, the hinge lady wrote a book. They'll be fine. But I do think there is a point where it's like, I see people going like, well, I'm ready to be serious in a relationship. I'm like, does your social media reflect that you're ready to be serious relationship? Do your dating apps reflect that you're ready to be in a serious relationship? It's like the idea of like, before you're ready to get in something,

you got to make sure you have made space for it. Like a lot of people are like, dating a bunch of people casually, or they're kind of in something, and they're like, I want something real. It's like, you got to really be ready, and I had to get to a point where I had to go like, I have to go to delete all these photos for my,

I have to delete all these videos. Did you go in a cleanse? You sanitize your Instagram. I had to, I mean, look, I had blue hair for like a year. I had to go. What happened that? Did you go fucking crazy? What did you do?

I guess I counted it. I, okay, so during the pandemic, you know, stand up as the first thing to go. I mean, in California, I don't know when you came, were you in California first? No, no. Or you just went to came to. UK and then back into 2021, I don't know when you came, were you in California first? No, no. Or you just went, came. UK, and then back into 2021, I came here.

Nice, you came straight here. Great, so in California was like shut down, right? And so stand up was the first thing to go. And I had just spent so much of my career as like, you know, someone in television and stuff is having to sort of be this person. And you know, you're trying to make this like executive, have a crush on you to get this job.

I just was like sick of trying to be this perfectly castable person. And then on top of that, you know, I know I had a year off. And then a bunch of my friends started losing their jobs. Hair artists make up artists stuff like that. And then I had one who, you know, was gonna have to move back home,

lose her health insurance. And I was like, but some most expensive thing we can do. And she's like, let's dye your hair blue. And I'm like, fuck it. I'm an entertainer. Why not? You know, I'm not shooting anything right now. I didn't realize that when's dye your hair blue. And I'm like, fuck it. I'm an entertainer. Why not? You know, I'm not shooting anything right now. I didn't realize that when you have blue hair,

everyone thinks you're like a lesbian on kind of me. So it's like, I think that probably set me back in the dating, in the dating bull for a while. She's Christ. What, why, why can't you have blue hair? Guys, they're just like, she's nuts. I have, I think that blue hair, especially like that color of hair is just, it's just like, she's nuts. I have, I think that Blue has, especially, like that color of hair is just, it's got bad, bad, bad brand image, you know what I mean?

But you know what's weird about it? A lot of guys started showing up at my house that thought I was some anime. There's like, you were cosplaying as a thing. There's something, it's a really big fetish in some Twitch communities and people that think we're in a simulation. You should have put a low-cut top and start

your playing League of Legends. That would have been, that was your new career. There was, there's some video game character. That is so funny. That's true. Down your left. It's never happened to me in a podcast, not one time. So you're ringtone?

That's well, yes. It's the most like California new AG. I'm really, I feel like that's like, some fucking Binaural Beats is a ringtone. That's like the first ringtone. That's like the one that comes with the phone, I thought. feel like that's like the fucking Binaural Beats is the ringtone. That's like the first ringtone. That's like the one that comes with the phone, I thought. That's crazy. I just got the new phone and I don't know how to use it.

But yeah, I did make the mistake. But again, if I wasn't a public figure, I didn't put it on social media. Like, you know, probably, oh, she's got blue hair. And I'm like, how many like great guys were like, never mind. You know, so I think it was just about going like, I've spent most of my career trying to appease fans and being entertainer and I have to just go like,

I'm gonna have to take a hit in my career if I really want to have a personal life. Well, I think, you know, for a lot of people again, that aren't necessarily in media or whatever, there is a degree of feeling like you need to live up to whatever expectation it is, the norms of this time, this generation, your parents, your past traumas, the pathos of least resistance, confused chemical signals

of your body, like whatever it is that you're kind of being dragged by at the moment. And asking yourself the question, all right, so what's me? Where am I inside of this? What's deeper? If I dig a little bit deeper, do I hit anything solid? Or am I just this concatenation of a bunch of assumptions and projections of my idea of what other people actually want from me? It's like, you just made me realize something, which is like I was arrogant. And there is this, well, I'm just gonna be authentic. And I have blue hair, and I do this, and I talk about sex.

Still performance. And you take me or leave me, and if you don't like me, you don't fucking get it. And it's like, no, the person that would have been attracted to that is not the kind of person I wanna be with either. So I don't wanna gravitate, gravitate, batch of crazy people either. So I can't behave, batch it crazy all the time, you know?

And expect to vibrate a person at the frequency of what I want. So it's like a lot of people go like, this is what I want, Na'am. And this is what I want, no one. And it's like, well, what are you willing to give up? And I wasn't ready to make that list. I had my list of pros, my list of cons, my list of red flags, my list of green lights,

but I didn't have what are you willing to give up? Are you willing to give up those photos that are like silly in your asses out? Are you willing to give up those videos where you're going like, man, making fun of man? Are you willing to not put up that standup clip from when you were 22 about squirting? So what's interesting there is

for each culture there's a counter culture, right? So I think that's not far off, like, a sacrifice culture or something like that. It's realizing that you're partner, there are things that you can do that can make your partner more and less happy. But there would be a big part of the internet, perhaps the like female empowerment,

authenticity, boss pitch internet that would say, well, if your partner can't take you as you are, that's their insecurity in their problem. And you go, okay, well, do you agree that there are ways that you can make your partner feel better and worse? Do you think that that's a thing? Yes, there are.

On average, do you want to try and do things that make your partner feel better without compromising yourself and becoming totally pliable? Yeah, probably, that would be something. It's like, right, okay. So we are on the same page. It's just a difference of degree, not a difference of kind.

So how many things, like, are you going to go out every single night, parting with the girls and never see a partner? Probably not, right? That's not gonna be a good relationship and they're gonna feel uncomfortable with it. All right, so seems we accept that. It's one straight line to, there were things

that I will put on the internet, the digital modesty thing again. There are things that I will say about myself. There are ways that I will act. There are things I'll say behind their back, to my friends that I will and will not say. There's degrees of confidentiality and openness about what we get up to in the bedroom or about what his fears are about, what she's been doing. All of these things are, I don't know, it seems kind of noble to me. I, a hundred percent agree, and it's also,

there's a difference between, you know, I've spent a lot of time with magical thinking, and that's what magical thing is, I'm gonna go out my girlfriend's three nights a week, and if he doesn't accept that, he's, well then you're gonna get a certain kind of man. I'm at a point again, I have nothing to prove, like I think for what I say to women,

is like get to a place where you have nothing to prove, so you can totally submit to your man and it doesn't feel like you're like a bad feminine. There's this thing now where you can't, like if you cook for your man, you're not a good feminist, I'm like, you're dealing with knives and fire. It's cool. Being able to feed yourself and your family

is like a bad thing now. Like, I, you know, I just, I think it's like so noble to be able to go like, I can show my love for you by giving up all these other things and I just wanna make you happy. Like, it's what noble to be able to go, like, I can show my love for you by giving up all these other things and I just wanna make you happy. Like, it's what I do on stage, it's what I do with crowds, it's like, I wanna do it with a man.

Is that weak? Is that, I think? It's investment, right? It's so strange that a woman who would give herself over, and a man that would give themselves over to a corporate employer that doesn't give a fuck about them is somehow seen as being a virtuous, like, self-defining independent person, but someone that does that for a partner that's going to spend the rest of their

life with them in January and he carries as a simp. I also think that a big mistake women make is like women go to advice about men to their girlfriends, go to advice about men to your guy friends, and also don't go to your single girlfriends for advice about being in relationships. Go to your married friends. Yeah, well, I mean, all of your single friends want to kill a choose-days to keep happening,

which means that, you know, even if they're not aware of it, and even if they're fantastic friends, there is a part of them that thinks, it's kind of like this idea in the Black Pill in-sale world of ascending, and ascending is becoming a viable mate there is a part of them that thinks it's kind of like this idea in the Black Pill in cell world of ascending and ascending is becoming a viable mate for women and maybe, maybe even getting it into a relationship. And it's very heavily discouraged because if one of the guys within a group that are supposed to be genetic dead ends that have no hope does do something that creates

a pain of oh well, this could happen to me. And as soon as you believe that this could happen to me, maybe the reason it's not happening to you with your fault. Maybe it's not determined already. And it's kind of the same with the singleton thing. Like if you're going to go and ask for advice about intimacy with someone who never really seems to be intimate with anyone, they're going to, first off, not have a particularly fantastic perspective, I don't think, unless they're unbelievably insensitive, but secondly, there's going to be a little bit of a perverse incentive that they don't want their friend to start to pull away from them.

Oh, so interesting. I'm going to give you the advice that makes what I'm doing seem like a good idea. And also, keeps you as a compatriot, so that we can both continue to do this together. You know, whether sisterhood, like, you know, girl, you don't need him, etc., etc., it's and also keeps you as a compatriot so that we can both continue to do this together. Whether sisterhood, girl, you don't need him, et cetera, et cetera. It's like, well, maybe that's true, but if you are a guy or girl, is it able to get yourself a partner

or enable to find friends? No, dude, you don't need that friend anymore. It's like, the subtext of that is you can hang out with me. I'm your people. When I was, I don't know, gosh, I was probably my late 20s and I dated a, and I'm only saying what he does for a living because it might make people, like, it'll make you understand why I took it so well. But professional athlete, great at what he does. I just think a lot of times professional athletes, they don't, they can't, there's not a lot of room for a motion to be involved.

It's either true or it's not true, or you're gonna get your neck broken. And he dated a lot of, you know, could date whoever he wanted or sleep with whoever he wanted. And I was just in my arrogance and in my like, you know, we were like arguing about something. And I was like, well, like, why would you date me? If like, I'm the person you date if you want like a challenge

and he just went, why would any man want a challenge in their relationship? And it was like, I was like, thank you so much for saying that. Cause I guess I grew up watching parents fights, watching conflict is love. Conflict is love. I guess that's Because I guess I grew up watching parents fight, watching conflict is love. Conflict is love. I guess that's what I saw.

I guess I thought it was sexy. I guess I thought men wanted. This is what action is. Yes. I don't know what I was thinking. And I literally in that moment was like, oh my god, I'm so sorry. Like I don't know what I thought it was like hot to you.

I thought it was like what guys wanted. I thought it was like feisty.. I thought it was like what guys wanted. I thought it was like feisty. Like, you know, I apologize. Well, especially if you're dating somebody that is high performing in any realm, it has goals. You know, if you're working that hard in the office, you really want to come home and be like,

right, there's that to-do list done. I wonder what fires I need to fight when I step through the front door as well. And now I'm kind of at this point where it's like I'm good at business, I'm really good at what I do. I love the idea of being with a man where I can be like, how can I help you make your, like, how can I be your business partner?

Like your silent business partner, whether it's like I can have dinner waiting for you, I can park. Playing the rock Johnson probably needs a second one of those. I mean, look, I just so crazy to me. Yeah. They probably, I want to do, I mean, stay to California, woman, the she gets half for, after 10 years in a day.

Strange, even with a prenup. Oh, that's a good question. I don't know. You'd be surprised how few people have prenups. I mean, remember, you've got that fucking, whatever it is. What's his, is it rum? What emotional support. Oh, his rum brand.

It's like, tequila or rum or something. Something. And, I mean, he's, I heard he Roma, something. Something. I mean, he's. I heard he might warn for office too. I'd vote for him. You know, because that's another thing. It's like, like, I'm into that ride or die. How can I make your dreams come true?

Like, that's what I've made my dreams come true. Like, I'm into that kink of like, how can I make your dreams come true? Like, can I... Being in service is cool, especially if it's, and this is something that we spoke about before as well. Like, not doing it coming from a place of desperation. I want to make your dreams come true or make your life better because I think it'll make

you love me. But there's almost something extra sexy or seductive about somebody putting their nature, especially their public facing nature to one side in order to do something that seems opposite or different to that privately, because it seems like the love that you have for me is causing, it's so strong that you're having to overcome something that you do publicly. You know, it's the same reason why the high-powered male lawyer wants to be tied up and spanked by the dominatrix, right? It's the polarity of the life that makes it interesting.

And that's the difference between coming at it from a place of desperation and weakness, like, I want to do this because I think it's the only way that you love me versus I am fine on my own and I'm okay with being independent and I have all of this stuff going for me. And I still want to, you know, be the homemaker, build a family, do the whatever. And it's the same for the, that's why, like, the Chad-to-Dad pipeline is so alluring, I think, to women. It's why so many stories.

All of the dark romance novels are about a man who has everything who is completely independent and ruthless and domineering and prestigious and is softened over time by the right woman because his love for her pulls him in. And it's the same as a beautiful friendship story, right? There is a friend who struggles to connect, but you see something in them that's amazing and then you become friends together. Do you know the Michelangelo effect? Do you know what this is? Fucking brilliant. So it's a psychological effect that describes how over time, two people,

often in a relationship, will craft each other into the idealized version of what they want. So I make you more like what I want and you make me more like what you want. And I am happy to become more like what you want and you are happy. And the reason it's called the Michelangelo effect is you can imagine Michelangelo looking at this huge block of marble and from the outside it's rough hue, but over time he chips away and creates the statue of David. So he sees inside of something which isn't perfect, the perfection that he wants and over time is able to craft this thing out of it.

This is something that's making me think of something I think that actually would be helpful to people. And is I feel like when you're in a relationship with somebody and there's things that you want to change about the prayer, there's this new thing now where you just can criticize your man or criticize your person or someone comes home and it's like, yeah, I guess you're just going to walk in the door and not say hi and da da da. And this is where the, you know, my having more intimacy and relationships with animals than humans actually comes in handy where positive reinforcement

is pretty much, I believe, the only thing that works. And I think that I'm not seeing it on either side right now with men or women. So if your girl comes home and she's rough or she's going out with her friends to my, whatever it is, just experiment with, just say instead of getting in a fight about it, like just, you know what I love? Like I love when you come home, I come home and you're here

and you're like on the couch and you're barefoot, it's just the sexiest thing in the world to me when I like come home and you're here, you know, and like kisser on the forehead and just see if anything changed. Same thing with my girlfriend's, you're like, and I just told him that he needs a fight. And I'm like, are you insane?

You can't talk to people like that, you know, this isn't like you're not in a fight on the fucking subway. This is your man. Just tell him, like, you know what, I love it so much when you, like, I don't like that he wears this thing. When he wears the other thing, just tell him how hot it is and suck his dick.

What, why is this so hard to understand? And you can't wear this fucking crox around when he wears the other shoes, just suck his dick and tell him how much you love the shoes. And kiss them and it's over. So I just think that we're not doing enough positive reinforcement. I think maybe it's this perfectionism generation

or maybe we're all standing up for ourselves and I'm gonna make a boundary and I'm gonna tell you all the things that I don't like as I'm gonna be authentic and do do do do. Omissions are not lies. You know, I just think that for every criticism we have, it's just like, like, just try positive reinforcement. Try that, you know what I love?

I love when your phone is off and I just get to, like, we just get to like- Just supposed to, why'd you always have your phone out on the table? It always makes me so annoyed. That's it. Don't even say that one. Just when there's no phone out,

take that opportunity to tell them how great it is. Like this to me is about, like, that's what it means to be soft, I think, to just like bite your tongue, shut your whore mouth. You don't have to just be roasting your man all the time. I mean, I see it and there's certain rules to me that I live by in relationships. Now it took me a while to learn, but you never gossip about your man ever, ever. If there's a texting with some other girl, you don't, I'm like, you don't tell any of your girlfriends.

You take it to a therapist, you take it to a 12 step meeting, like, don't ever gossip about your person. Don't ever make fun of your person in public. I see people a lot, like, that women that don't understand why relationships are working and then you go out at a double date and like, cause you fucking, gonna go out and you're just like, what the fuck are you doing?

Like you're embarrassing your man in front of a bunch of people. You know, and so I see this stuff. And as someone who's a female comic, you would think that, you know, that's not how I am in relationships and the slightest. And I think that we're just getting a little too comfortable. You know, I did this movie that was about, it was based on a book called The Female Brain.

And I met with this female neuroscientist and I said, I was to her, I was just like, what's the main advice you have for me? Like, if I leave here knowing one thing today about the difference between the male and the female brain and she just went, your girlfriend is not your boyfriend.

Don't treat them the same. So if you wanna talk about how ugly the bridesmaids dresses were at Marcy's wedding, call your friend Lydia, don't call your boyfriend about it. You know, just like be a little more cautious about the stuff that you, because then you come home and you're like, can you believe what happened at work?

And this she was wearing this blouse. And the guy's just like, you know what I mean? It's like, well, you don't listen to me. How come you're not paying attention? You don't want to hear me talk. It's like, this isn't a subject. Dude, you're boring. You're fucking boring, dude.

Call your girlfriend. So it's like to me, it's always a big red flag when girls don't have girlfriends. Cause that means you're gonna have to hear all the boring ass shit. So like girls know what to take to your girlfriends and know what to take to your guy friends. All right, to your boyfriend.

Yeah. I think that's a really important thing that a lot of girls don't do. They expect their boyfriend to be their girlfriend. You're not gonna come to fucking Nordstrom with me and hold my purse while I change. That's not the man, that's not my guy. And don't make your guy do shit like that.

I just think that little things like that, I think make a really big difference. And if you are doing that, chances are you might not respect the person and that's not the person for you. And I think people really forget about respect. It's like I'm attracted to him and he's smart and he has this, but do you respect him? Because if you're going, I want you to spend your Saturday sitting on a fucking velvet puff at Nordstrom while I try shit on, unless it's like a fun cakey sex game,

that's a different thing, but like that's not respect. You don't respect your man's time. Yeah, that's again, the playability thing. And that's why having boundaries is so important. You said this other thing, I listened to you say this other thing, I thought was so fucking interesting. You said, in order for art to imitate life,

you have to have a life. That's it. And this is definitely something that I see in high achievers, high performers, people that are sort of on that grind, where the creativity and the space that they had to be able to think about whatever it is that they're going to do, whether it's business or career moves or writing or an online coaching platform that they're trying to start or content creation or whatever. And after a while, you take up so much of your days doing that thing that the font, like the pool from which you would draw in order to be able to present shit is just barren it's dry. That's exactly it.

I mean, you see it with comedians all the time. You see this great comedian amazing observational comedians, they get more and more famous, more and more successful. All they're doing is touring and then all of a sudden they're only doing jokes about airplanes because they're only on airplanes, you know, or they like have nothing to talk about because they don't do anything. I remember I was in a writer's room for a sitcom that I made and I was running three shows at one time, three television shows, which was very, you know,

taxing, was working all weekend, you know, 20 hours a day, not sleeping. And we're in the writer's room and I'm like, we need to pitch on like something that the couple does like on a weekend and someone was like, oh, what if they like went to a wine tasting? And I was like, no one goes to a wine tasting. And then like, what if she like had to go to a baby's shop?

I'm like, no one goes to a baby's shop. And they're like, no, Whitney, you had to go to a baby shop? I'm like, no one goes through a baby shop. And they're like, no, Whitney, you don't go to a baby, like you don't have, you know, and I realized like I was limiting myself and how, you know, I'm like, well, what if like they're at work and this happened? Like I could only pitch on workaholism. Like at every character was all of a sudden a workaholic. I, you know, and so to me, it's like, you know,

especially being, you know, a stand-up comedian. I'm like, I gotta go out in the world and I gotta do things. And that doesn't mean be mercenary when you do, because there are times where I'm like, I really have to do something social this week and I'll call friends. And I'm like, can you guys make sure I don't turn this dinner into work or turn a hobby into a business? Because that's the other thing. I said, I'll get a hobby and then I'll turn into a business.

Yeah. You know what I mean? Spin this thing up and sell it. I'll start knitting and I'm like, oh, this will be good merch. And I'm like, no, can't do that. You know? There's an idea I came up, oh, this will be good merch. I'm like, no, can't do that. You know? There's an idea I came up with for that called productivity purgatory.

So it's when the things that you do for fun and done purely to, like, you go for a walk in nature not because you want to calm down and just have a good time, but because you want to saw an Andrew Cuban and podcasts that says, your productivity increases by 15%. If you spend 20 minutes a day with sunlight in the eyes or whatever, like productivity purgatory, everything that you do is in service of this thing. I literally got the Apple Watch because the phone is just a camera at a certain point.

I would go on these hikes and then I would be like, I got to do a video about there's a plant and I got to do a bit with the plant. And I'm like, no, I got to just not even bring my phone with me on walks anymore. So I will find a way to make a TikTok or I'll be writing down it and like, I gotta just let you know. So I really have to play defense on that because I will slip into that workaholic shit or I mean just being on a date with a guy

and being like, that's not a just stop. Nope, that's not a joke. You're just in the moment and you're not gonna make right a scene, you're not gonna get a movie idea, you're just gonna be in this moment. You know, and I think that for people that do all kinds of things, it's not even just creators. If you're someone that's like building it up

or this, you have to go out in the world and see how people behave and see what they do. And you gotta like go to the zoo, it's based on, I call it go to the zoo. You gotta go out to a restaurant and see like, okay, I'm building my, my, my whoop band. Okay, people usually wear it on the left side. Would it make, you know, you just have to like,

be in the world and I, I didn't, I always thought that socializing, doing things that were fun, were like a waste of time or that I was falling behind. But now I know that it's like an integral part about being creative and staying relevant. And it's good to have fun every now and then. Like you've earned it. I think that I used to operate from such a place of guilt

and you're such a piece of shit and you're never gonna make it. And that served me really well It just doesn't serve me anymore. Yeah, this I've got this idea about Fuel that you use that kind of a fuel that very anxious sort of toes toes down forward thing is Potent for probably about five or ten years, but toxic if you use it for much longer than that I've also big my new thing is doing nothing

Okay How do you how are you new thing is doing nothing. Okay. How are you getting on with doing nothing? It's weird. I mean, a lot of times it's kind of just like sitting outside and just, I get to look at nature, chilling, but there's just no such thing as doing nothing. I think- Being around horses wouldn't class

because that's still doing something. If I'm well, that still counts as doing something, probably a little bit, but doing nothing next to a horse, they really like you. Dr. K, a healthy gamer. He's a psychiatrist, psychotherapist, Eastern and Western trained, and he helps with young people that have got screen addictions, gaming addictions. He also works with some of the biggest Twitch streamers on the planet, Eastern, with every big Twitch streamer, XQC, and Charlie from Penguin Zero and all that stuff. And one of his exercises that he gets his,

like, Discord group to do, is stare at a wall for 30 minutes. And some of the things that apparently people break down, crying, they start screaming at the wall, you're like, dude, it's staring at a wall, I haven't done it. I haven't fucking, I'm dead to it. I don't know if I'm gonna, it's gonna be a total fever dream.

I don't know what's gonna go on. It's tricky because I was almost too embarrassed to say it, but a lot of times I end up crying. If you're just like being alone with yourself because you're like, what's, what am I running from? What feelings am I trying to not feel? What thoughts am I trying to not have? Or what comes up when I stop

anesthetizing with busyness, with action, with productivity, right? And it might just be like, you know, that agent that did, like, it's right there, it's right there. Oh, that person that said that thing or that YouTube comment, it's right there. And they go like, okay, this is stuff, I need to work through this is stuff that I'm carrying,

this is stuff that I need to purge, this is something I need to forgive. Like, this is something like, okay, this is stuff. I need to work through this stuff that I'm carrying. This is stuff that I need to purge. This is something I need to forgive. Like this is something like a mallet that I'm trying to, a feeling I'm trying to get out of, right? That is haunting me or it's something that's taking up real estate in my brain that has no business being there. That if I don't feel this feeling, it's just gonna, you know,

alchemizing into something unhealthy, anger at someone else or some kind of shame or bullshit. So it's like, I kind of sit there and sometimes I have to feel my feelings. And a lot of times it's shame, it's cringe. It's like, why did you say that thing to that person? You know, sometimes it's to forgive myself, whatever it is. But like, you know, there was,

I don't know if you ever saw that show cheer on Netflix. No. It's about the best cheerleading. It's such a great documentary about the best cheerleading team in the country. Naveiro, it's actually in Texas. The coach is incredible. It's so great. It's such an amazing show.

It's about, you know, these cheerleaders, they work. Wasn't the big scandal. There was a scandal. One of the guys sent some text. He shouldn't have sent and asked for some photos. He shouldn't have asked for asked for some photos he shouldn't ask for but it's still incredibly inspiring. It will inspire you not to send those DMs.

Right. Okay. And never never DM somebody without having seen their drivers license and and why am I bringing it up? Why am I bringing it up? Oh, so one of the girls on it, they all got really famous off of it. The show is really big and this girl is just like 18 years old, famous cheerleader, you know, she's getting all these brand deals.

She all of a sudden has four million followers from being on this Netflix show, being this, you know, athlete and I mean, in Austin with some friends, and we go see they do this live show and I, you know, the show came out like a year and a half ago and I asked her, I was like, so what are you gonna do this summer? And she was like, oh, I'm gonna take a couple months off just to, you know, process. And I was like, so what are you gonna do this summer? And she was like, oh, I'm gonna take a couple months off just to, you know, process. And I was like, what? She was like, I just need to like process all this. And I was like, I don't get, like, I didn't know

when she was taught. I was like, oh yeah, I need to schedule time to process things. I've never thought about that before. And it made me start to take time every week to just process what happened. So I, I mean, cooperating in America, it's taking ages because you guys, this tech system and legal system and every, I didn't get social security number two months ago. Anyway,

started working with the accountancy firms. I've kind of got a part-time CFO, part-time CFO, fucking all he does is finances. And I was at dinner with him a couple of nights ago. And he said, yeah, every Friday, I just have the entire day to think. Like, you live on Excel. Like, what thinking is there? It's just numbers in, numbers out. Like, I'm a doing deals as this person paid their taxes, blah, blah, blah.

Like, what thinking is there to do? And the accountant guy, head of this accountancy firm is like, yeah, I spend every Friday just thinking. Obviously, that's a luxurious position to be in, but like the rule, I think, is right. I used to do, I used to have this, again, another problem. You guys have a license equivalency between the US and the UK, which means I need to take my theory test,

my theory driving test again in Texas, a place that has, by far the worst drivers, I've ever seen in my life, and I've been to Rome, right? So I have to do that again, but I used to love when I was back home reading, right? Sorry, we don't give half of our money to a queen. Yeah, that's true. Well, she's fighting not anymore.

Oh, yes. To, to tough day. Sorry, our, our, our leaders aren't born into power. Yeah, if you had a genetic pool about that big roll, sorry, we don't have in-bred mascots running our guns. All right, okay, there we go. I'm sure you're going to need to sell some tickets in the UK. I'm kidding, I'm kidding, I know, love you guys.

Love you guys. Please, please, please, please, please, please, please. Driving the car with no musical podcast on, what a fucking, like, wow, what a crazy thing. I don't know what it is. What comes up? And it's great because you've got the front of you. It's like doing nothing when you're washing the dishes.

You front of the brain is nice and occupied and the rest of the brain is just free to do its thing. Really great, really great. I do have a tool that really works to me where I schedule worrying about things and schedule worrying about things. I schedule worrying about things. So it's like worrying about things. I schedule worrying about things. So it's like, if it's like,

I have to make this decision about whether I'm gonna do this thing or not. Say the deadline is November 12th, I'll go, okay, November 10th, and I'll put it in my calendar. I'll say 10 a.m. to this, I'll worry about it. Instead of just constantly perseverating it until about it until then, I will just schedule when I'm gonna worry about it.

Do you do that with somebody? Do you find it's easiest to worry with right hand, or with a, like, if I know I need to run something by someone, I'll go like, hey, like, I'm worried with me. Yeah, can you, the worry potting. Can we go panic together?

Or if I'm like, because it gives me time to also go, who are the best people to reach out and ask about this? Like, I feel like it's also, your life starts getting better when you know who to ask advice from. You know, again, go to best people to reach out and ask about this? Like I feel like it's also, your life starts getting better when you know who to ask advice from, you know, again, go to Mary People to ask for advice, you know, podcasts, go to someone who knows what they're talking about, you know, so for me, it's also, instead of just talking about it to everyone all the time and getting bad advice from people, getting sort of mixed data, just constantly worrying about something, I'll go like, you

have two hours to worry about this in three weeks. And then I also will schedule making decisions about things until then, but this is where I'm going to schedule thinking about it. And so that's like, I think a version that works for me of what your CFO kind of did. And I'll put it in my calendar. And then I can't talk, I can't talk for the next time. I can't talk for the next time. I can't talk for the next time. I can't talk for the next time.

I can't talk for the next time. I can't talk for the next time. I can't talk for the next time. I can't talk for the next time. I can't talk for the next time. And so that's like, I think a version that works for me of what your CFO kind of did. And I'll put it in my calendar. It's like, and then I can't talk, I'm like, I can't talk for the next hour, I have to think about this thing.

Busy worrying. Yeah, I'm busy worrying, or I'm busy doing my prone conless, but instead of just constantly worrying about five or six different things all the time, I will schedule it, and that really helps. And then I now schedule processing. Because like, there are times where you look back,

I'm like, why did I say yes to that? What was I thinking? Oh, I just automatically said yes. I just went into my default software. Which we do. It's like you move into a new house. You're going to drive to your old house for a couple of months, just for like, habit.

So to me, yes, I have the, if it's not a hell, yes, it's a no. I have posted notes all over my desk that are like the answer is probably going to be, but sometimes I'll just fucking say yes. And I'm like, why did I do that? And I'll just go through my calendar. That's a big thing.

I'll sit down and really get thoughtful about my calendar and be like, I need to cut 30% of this out. Period. In the end. Yeah, there's a couple of interesting things that if you find yourself continuing to say yes to stuff, and then when it comes around regretting the past version of you that made future you go to this thing, when you get asked again, ask yourself if this was tomorrow what I say yes, because we, you know, there's this hyperbolic discounting. So like you, one pound tomorrow is worth 20 pounds in a year's time in the

way that we see it. And the same is kind of true with what you're prepared to oblige yourself to go and do. It's like something that you'd say no to tomorrow, you feel a little bit more okay, saying yes to for six months. But I, first of all, take a good look at yourself and make sure first you're not addicted to dread, which I think, which I believe I was, right? Number one, in number two, I would go, oh, well, I would go, oh, well, I have nothing that day. Yeah, it's three and a half months away.

This is better than nothing. That's what I'm saying about this plan. Oh, okay. I have nothing that day. It's busy in this addiction. But why don't I wanna do nothing? Why am I like, why do I wanna do this thing? Cause otherwise I do nothing.

And then, oh God, I'd be alone with one of my thoughts. Let's just fill it with something. You know, like, what are you really saying when you agree to a plan that you don't want to do? Are there kind of like, ah, about, like, I'll do it. Like, how little do you respect yourself and how little do you respect your time? You know, that you're saying yes to that.

Like, I really had to look at that. And then I didn't go like, well, by then, and then the lack of faith in yourself, like, what if I have a person by then? What if I'm going to need to be making dinner for my guy that I were going to the farmer's market that day? Like I need to hold that day because what I'm saying is my life's not going to be any better by this day. And the best I can do is this fucking thing where I don't even really

want to do it. Like what a what a wildly self-destructive instinct. What a sloppy, you know, death by a thousand cuts of just fill your life until you die. How do you think you're going to get on given that you're gonna have to take a pretty big baby hiatus? You know, it seems like you're the cascade of hormones is manipulated you appropriately, but I said I feel like I've been like making no sense during this interview. I feel like I've made a... Dude, I have really, really, really enjoyed this. I think it... This is like the first time I've been like, I think I have mom brain.

Like a couple times we're talking, I'm like, wait, what was the question? Like, I feel like I must sound like I can do this. I've really, really, really enjoyed this. I think it's very surprising. I've watched a good bit of your stuff. But this is a side of you that I think is like really, really useful for people to remember. Actually, there are a lot of things that I did not want to come useful for people to be able to do. I actually really, there are a lot of things that I did not want to come on your podcast

and waste your time in your listeners' time. Obviously, I'm like a fan, but there are a lot of things I sound like that I have not said before or even articulated out loud. So I do find myself being like, being a little bit wobbly. I'm just your only therapist. So yeah, take me through.

You've got this three weeks pop and then you, for all the busyness and all the rest of it, have you considered what you're going to do when the like work demon arises in the back of your mind? It's like, oh, like, fucking, he's asleep. Like, let's see what emails I can bloodblast to just, how do you think you're gonna... Won't do it.

I mean, it's, I just, that's a form of alcoholism and that's what my parents did to me. And I just won't let it happen. I have basically six months, I'm taking down from touring entirely. And for me, it's actually really helped me to talk to people who have had kids. Again, it's like the be regular and orderly

in your personal life so you can be brave and violent in your professional life. Some of the people I admire the most have kids and they got better creatively. It's not why I'm having them, but I really just stay focused on them. That's fucking productivity. I know. It's pregnancy purgatory. I was like running out of jokes about being single guys.

I'm going to get a new hour out of this. But Donna Glover, for example, I'm sure Donna Glover, brilliant. We used to tour together and he was always a a great standup, was always a great musician. And then one day, you know, he makes it land. I'm watching it land. I'm like, this is one of the best shows I've ever seen. And then he, you know, is on Fallen singing Redbone. Someone sends me the link to him.

I thought it was Marvin Gaye. I call him, I'm like, dude, what happened? Is this that or all? Like, what do we do? He's like, oh, I had a kid. And I was like, he was like, it just took my creativity. Is the performance enhanced so that no one else can do it? I know exactly.

So it's like, he's like, it just took me to another level creatively. You know, so, you know, I was talking to a friend the other day who was like, let it change you. And so to me, it's like, I think my role is to just let it change me and to be the mom that I didn't get to have. And, you know, there's all this, I think, sort of healing dynamics around being able to have that redo your childhood. Here's one thing, maybe that might resonate with some people.

It certainly resonates at least in part with me, which is, let's say that you've gone from a type of person that you weren't so proud of or weren't so happy with. And you've worked quite hard to get yourself to the stage where you asked someone that you weren't so proud of or weren't so happy with. And you've worked quite hard to get yourself to the stage where you are someone that you think is more aligned, existentially, all the rest of it, you're speaking your locus forward. But when another set of changes comes along, there is maybe even a bit more resistance because now you get something to lose. Mm-hmm. Yes.

Previously, you were a piece of shit that didn't understand the world, whereas now, like, I've already found some degree of safety and security and certainty and understanding in this me. But letting go of this, this me, to get onto that, this me is like, oh my God, like that type of evolution is even harder because the bank account isn't empty. That's right.

That's right. And I think for me, it's like, you know, I want my kid to be proud to, for me to be his mom, you know, it's gonna make me cry. And so that's how I think now. And it's kind of cool, you know, and I found myself even in this interview being like, oh, what if your kid watches this one day, you know, it's a kind of, it's made me stutter and be a little bit, you know, I'll get used to it, but I like that directive. I like that, you know, when your kid is 10, 15, whatever in school, are they gonna be like, when are you coming, says your mom,

are they gonna be like, when are you coming, says your mom, like I want the second one. Yeah. So I feel like I've been kind of floating through space for a while, but like, well, this makes people laugh and this makes people laugh. And like, they bought that and they bought this special, but I'm kind of like,

is my 15 year old gonna be proud that I'm his mom? That's fucking cool. That's really helping me make decisions. I am going on tour next week for the first time. Whoa! I know. This will be out after the tour. I'm excited.

So for people that all pay, thank you for coming. What are the do's and don'ts of surviving on the road? Okay, the do's, they walk in the theater. You know, the way you want them to feel, the music you're gonna be playing when they come in, or are you playing videos of you, you know, so that when they're coming in, they get to see you doing outtakes,

they get to see you doing stuff. They experience starts because they're gonna be, you know, sitting in those seats for 30, 40 minutes before you actually come out there. So that's always something that I feel the need to say because the show starts before you come come out there. So that's always something that I feel the need to say because the show starts before you come out at all. I also think being able to move around on stage, like are you doing a handheld? Are you doing like a headset mic? Pretty big stages, so should be able to bounce around. You've done the last square theater in the UK. Yes, I have.

Yeah, so I got Saturday, Sunday, next week and that'll be fun. That's incredible. I would go out and do the sound check. Like, you know, go out, test the lighting, see it. I mean, I have. Yeah, so I got Saturday, Sunday, next week, and that'll be fun. That's incredible. I would go out and do the sound check, like, you know, go out, test the lighting, see it. I mean, I've seen the way that you operate before you go on, like, you'll be fully prepared. But, uh, easy, you're going to be just, like, doing it to your own charge to the audience at all? Yeah, it will be a Q&A at the end. So it's 45 minutes interval, 45 minutes, Q&A. Yeah.

It's solo, and there's bits, and I've been working this out. I haven't really told. It's solo and there's bits. And I've been working this out. I haven't really told, we announced it and sold the tickets, but I haven't really like spoken about this. I've been doing work in progress shows in Austin for the last two months. Cool. East Austin Comedy Club.

So I've done like this routine. I've done five times now and we've got rid of stuff and we've written it extra bit. You should've said send me a recording. I want to listen to it. Yeah, I've got it. Like that would help me to be able to know. I'll send you the stuff. There's some fucking monster bits in there. There was one, there's one bit that everybody will hear. The timing of it, I had to get Ryan

along to like explain the comedic timing of how I could make it work. Yeah, yeah, really fucking great, but it's super, I felt it was complex. I'm sure it'd be like walking the park for you. Okay, so. By the way, if it work. Really fucking great, but I felt it was complex. I'm sure it'd be like walking the park for you. Okay, so. But by the way, if it goes sideways, just go, you know what I'm saying? Then the audience gets to see something goes sideways and that's even cooler, something.

That's funny too. What about, here's one question I've got for you. How do you wind down after you've done something emotionally agitating? I think this would be useful for people that have got a big job interview, but it's also useful for me after I step out on stage in front of, we're doing one and a half thousand

people in Dubai in two weeks time. Great. So I'm going to have to buy, I want to go to bed because I need to be up the next day to get ready for the next thing, right? So how do you get rid of the agitation? This is going to be a hot take. I say enjoy it till you're tired. You know, it's, you work so hard.

This is shocking to me. Is that, I'm like, I'm literally, I, this is the, I got the new iPhone. I usually if you just turn the ringer off, it's off. I know what's happening, our moves. I, I just go to sleep when I'm tired. I know that's a really hot take.

I used to take Lunezza and then I would take smoke weed. It's like a sleeping pill. Like an ambient, you know what I'm, yeah. it's ambient as I can't believe that's your sleep. Lunesta's like a little more. I had my first ambient a couple of weeks ago. How was it? I was on a plane. I asked the first question I asked,

is this gonna make me start tweeting racist shit? It does. It's the fucking like, could you imagine, could you imagine if ambient? You know that I was working on Rosanne at the time that that happened? I didn't, but if I'd been ambient, I 100% would have been Rose Anbar, your new fucking partnership. Like, let's break the internet with this partnership.

Can you imagine that Ambien would just go down his most legendary fucking brand, like fucking racist tablets? Like, the racist pills. Are you finding yourself being too unbegoted? Take an ambience, a couple of glasses of wine. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You're fighting your tongue. You got you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Want to get fired from that job and don't know how. Ambience. Want to get invited from Christmas with your family. I mean, I, but it's a, I mean, I took, uh, ambient once, and I woke up the next morning and he, there was a chicken carcass on my dining room to eat an entire rotisserie chicken.

And no recollection whatsoever. Like I'd touch in my mouth. It's monstrous. That's it's wild. But I would like try to sedate myself and I would kind of like, I think something that happens when you get successful as you start trying to get it over with. Yes.

This is what you got here. This is it. You're here. Really great point. You're here. You come off stage. It's like, talk to the audience, go to what you got here. This is it. You're here. Really great point. You're here. You come off stage It's like talk to the audience go to the meet and greet like feel it Five you boys. That's it because that's a form of gratitude and it's like you know telling I know this is gonna sound like

Whatever dumb or Abraham Hicks or the secret or whatever But it's like when you're feeling the feelings you want to keep feeling don't try to stop feeling them It's like your brain needs to start practicing that elation of like, this is my new normal, is that I just did this amazing thing and people loved it and I just, people just paid money to see me talk. Like this is what I've been working towards.

Then I see people like, well how do I get to bed? I'm like, do you sleep tomorrow? I do wanna get to bed. Sleep tomorrow. Like you'll sleep when you sleep. You know, I know it's a high-performance, we all have to like, sleep eight hours and see the sun at this amount of time,

but every now and then you gotta just like, celebrate. That's a really, really like, fantastic point. There's this, I always use this example, but Conor McGregor fought for the lightweight title twice. Maybe it's the featherweight title twice, I think it was featherweight. So the first time he does it, the guy that he's supposed to fight pulls out

with an injury and he fights for the interim title against Chad Mendes. It's a way harder fight. You remember he knocks out Aldo in 13 seconds. It's that super famous knockout and it's like everyone loses this. Yeah, yeah. But the first time is much more of a war against Chad Mendes and there's a lot more pressure and so on and so forth. And you know, McGregor is also earlier in his career and he hasn't had this first victory

at a super high level. And he gets interviewed in between the first interim title success and then the subsequent, like, combined title success or whatever against Aldo. He's like, what are you going to do differently this time as part of your preparation process? And he says, this time I'm going to enjoy it. And there's this really famous photo of him standing like that. And he's got that tattoo running up the back of his neck. And he stood with his arms out in front of the way in the ceremonial way in. And it's just this arena of people that's there for him. And he said the first time he did it, he couldn't remember it because he was just, you know, looking over the shoulder of the present moment to see what was coming next. And he was like, what the fuck am I doing? Like, if I can't stand a decade and a half, rolling sequences

in some bullshit gym in Dublin, Ireland, sleeping in the attic of his parents house, for that moment. And he's so concerned and fearful about the next thing that's coming that he can't even be there, the place that he meant to get to all along. Yeah, in which, by the way, like, when you get there, know you're there, you know, and I'm sure that that part of his brain is why he's who he is and we're both like that, you know, what's next, what's next, but I think celebration is a form of gratitude and it took me so long to be able to just enjoy this, like this was, this was literally my dream growing up. And I'm here. And I'm just like,

okay, well, does that have a better drill? Because I need to get to bed because I have to get to airport tomorrow. I'm like, you know, so I think it's like every now and then we got to just go like, we like, we did it, you know, I think it's your trains are brain, I think to be in that space more and prepares us for more of that. Because then you're kind of like, but how many, how many, like, you know, situations does this happen? And you spend so long searching on auto trader for the car that you want to buy. And you go to the dealership and you test all of the different versions.

And you realize it's that kind of trim that you want into the Alcantara and not the leather seats. And you want to get it with the red trim on the steering wheel, not the plane. And you want to get to this. And then you finally get it. And the first thing that you start thinking about is like, what's the next thing? You're already this amazing story from Morgan House, or great writer, fantastic new book, everyone needs to go and buy

it same as Avra, it's available now. And he told me this story, he'd been planning this holiday with his family for ages. And he's a busy guy, he owns a fund and he does, he's an author and he does all this other stuff. And he finally gets there. And one of the first thoughts he had on the first night is there on the balcony and they planned for ages and the families there and they've got everyone and it's been for kids and all the rest of the stuff. And one of his first thoughts he's stood on the balcony was, wow, it would be so great if we came back next year. Like, this would be so great if we came back next year. So even during the experience of experiencing,

he was already trying to get the anticipation in again. That's, I have the same exact story. I'm out of hotel at a wedding with my girlfriend, Dory. And I was like, this place would be great to like, calm, like spend a weekend. And she was like, that's what we're doing. And I was like, oh, like didn't even dawn on me that I was in that moment. And I think something that again, little aphorisms, addages, little cute little things helped me sometimes,

it is my goal in life to not be a sore winner. And I see a lot of sore winners. What's a sore winner? A sore winner is someone who's won. They got everything they wanted. And they're like, all right, we're gonna get back to the hotel and you're like, we're here. Yeah, it's like joyless joy. You won, know when you've won. Even if it's a little micro win, if you just had that great date,

and it might not end in marriage, or it but just like enjoy that with, feel those feelings because it teaches your brain to keep feeling those feelings. There's a book called Hardwiring Happiness by Rick Hanson, which is precisely about that. They, that's the smarter person that'll say it in a more elegant way than I'm trying to say it. So, you're on, you're on, you're on that fight together, why together? Train your brain for happiness because we're kind of like, oh, if I just do this thing,

then I'll be happy and then you do the thing and you're like, well, now I need to do another one to be happy and it's one too many a million not enough. And you're like, well, that's when did the difference between, it's an, is it a goal or is an addiction? Yeah. Well, I mean, you know, how many things have you done that you said would make you happy? One of my friends, Alex Homozzi has this fucking monster quote where he says, you've already achieved the goals you said would make you happy. Oh, get fucked, dude. Get fucked, saying that. Yeah. And now what exactly? your excuse. You said that the next car that you would buy would make you happy in your happiness of apparatus.

You said that the next house you would buy would make you happy in your happiness of apparatus. You said that becoming a moderator on the hustlers university, discord would make you happy and your dad took away your credit card, right? So I would say like to calm down after your show, like tell everyone at the theater, right? I would say to calm down after your show, like tell everyone at the theater,

hey, I'm going to this bar after. And just get, you might only be able to say for 10 minutes because you're gonna be getting mobbed and it's gonna be chaos, but just like show up and see how much joy, like to see the people in person that you're affecting every day, like that's another level of euphoria.

One thing that kind of come up a little bit throughout this conversation. Sorry, really quick, I don't wanna interrupt you. Yes. People can go, oh, I'm gonna listen to him at the gym. I did it. When they get in their cars and book a babysitter and buy tickets and show up,

like these are like the fan fans, and these are like your family. Like you started a cult, sorry. And you're about to meet your, like that, that's one of the greatest things. It's interesting, so I've got an all white robe, and I've been listening to you talk for four hours a week. Yeah.

You know what I mean? But then the ones that show up in person, there's nothing like that feeling when you get to meet them. A couple might try to kill you, but you're very strong, you'll be fine. I didn't want to interrupt you, but. No, no, no, no. One of the things that's come up

in like throughout this conversation is kind of not feeling feelings or the aversion to emotions arising. And do you know what the overton window is? It's like the window of acceptable speech. So if you imagine from 0 to 100, all of the things that you could say, right, from the most reprehensible in one way to the most reprehensible in another,

then the overt and window kind of describes this interquartile range within that, which is acceptable speech. And if you stray outside of that, then it's like unspeakable. So for instance, singular retard, right, is like right on the phone board. I guess I've just put the open window there. I'm like, okay, I'm a comedian. It depends if you're a comedian, so you get to say it all the time. We're a little off, yeah.

But you know, that's slowly squeezes in. But I always think about that as like, okay, so not to 100 are from the worst to the best emotions that you can experience. And it feels to me like that into quad-al range, it's getting really, really squeezed. emotions that you can experience. And it feels to me like that, interquadile range is getting really, really squeezed, because people are able to, you know, sedate themselves from feeling feelings, even through their phone. You know, I've got friends who, if they're having a bad time,

their coping strategy is to just open their phone and distract themselves by scrolling. You know, that'll get you away from your feelings. And it's strange, you know, that'll get you away from your feelings. And it's strange, you know, the desire, the innate tendency that we have to new to good feelings. Like, this is just an intense feeling, and I don't like it because I am, I spend almost all of my time in this fucking pod bleeping away and uber-eating foods to me. Therefore, anything of intensity just feels alien. So I'm gonna, I must new to this, I must hide away.

I always like to say to myself, never miss the opportunity to feel a feeling that's gonna motivate you to do something great. Like never, never miss out on that feeling. You know, whether it's, you know, something you don't wanna feel like jealousy or hurt or pain or something like that, like those can be transmogrified into great things.

I look at most things I've ever done and they've come from kind of gross feelings of wanting to get out of a feeling or having gone through pain or having to need to prove someone wrong or try to get someone's attention. To me, I kind of try to look at feelings just as motivation for the most part

to make a better choice. So if I'm constantly anesthetizing myself, I'm missing out on that fuel to do something, you know? And so that's how I try to look at it, you know? And then I go like, okay, I wanna look at my phone right now and I wanna anesthetize and I wanna check out. Even though to me, I mean, it's playing slot machine. It's really what you're doing.

It's a gambling addiction at the end of the day, right? You're playing for that one dopamine hit. You got that one time when that one girl made that comment that you liked, you know, whatever. It's all just bullshit, you know, from then on out trying to achieve that same level of dopamine. It seems like, but I go like, is it worth the shame I'm going to feel in 20 minutes when I have just been on Instagram for 20, you know what I mean? It's just not worth, like I know how this story ends, so I'm able to kind of walk myself through it and be like, I'd rather feel this feeling of right now

than shame in 20 minutes. I've got this bit that appears in the live show where I talk about the story that you tell yourselves about the decisions that you made last for far longer than the impact of the decisions. So you being the sort of person who eats a cookie, like, yeah, there's calories in a cookie and you'll feel nice, and then you might be a bit fat tomorrow or whatever.

But the story that you tell yourself about being the sort of person who is or is not a cookie eater, basically last for the rest of your life. That's it. And I don't have willpower, and I'm just going to eat the cookie anyway, and why, you know, so to me, it's like, I can really, you know, and this is something that we, you know, talk about in program is every year that you're in this 12 step program, you get to have a second of pause, you know? So it's sort of like, I've been in for, you know, almost 10 years now, so I've 10 seconds of pause before I, you know, I like to respond and not react as the goal, you know, it's

like, I want to pick up my phone, it's like, I have 10 seconds to go like, is this a negative contribution to my future self? Is this, I know how this story ends. Is this really seems like you've done the work? Really, really just seem like you've done the work. Even if inwardly it feels like you're just a catastrophe that does not have that shit together. Well, to me, I like to like just say that to people, you know, and just share that on podcasts. So because I think people would probably think like, oh, look, she's achieved all this stuff. And I like, you know, like I've had with all this. You know, you know, it just seemed like you've done the work. I've been very, very impressed with you today. Oh gosh, that's so nice. I feel like I've been like sort of

rambly and confusing and not been very, very incisive. Why should people go? They want to check out more of your shit and you're going to be absent from the road for at least six months. I am. I have my six special. I just came out. It's on OF TV. OF TV slash Whitney. I'm a totally uncensored and totally free. And I'm like, Why else is what else is happening? What I'm thinking? Whitney Cummings, my podcast is good for you.

That's it. I'm embarrassed to promote myself. I'm not good at it. Get over, get over, get over