Modern Wisdom - #730 - Mike Thurston - The Harsh Reality Of Trying To Improve

Episode Date: January 11, 2024

Mike Thurston is a podcaster, YouTuber and a fitness model. Me and Mike went to university together 15 years ago. And yet in 2024 many of the problems we encountered back then have gotten even worse. Why is a lack of confidence, overly comparative mindsets and body dysmorphia so persistent and how do we go about fixing it? Expect to learn why male body dysmorphia is on track to overtake female body dysmorphia, what Mike's relationship with social media looks like right now, where you actually gain confidence from, whether being super highly followed on the internet makes you more or less self-assured, how your priorities should change as you get older, Mike’s thoughts on Sam Sulek and much more... Sponsors: Get 20% discount on Nomatic’s amazing luggage at https://nomatic.com/modernwisdom (use code MODERNWISDOM) Get the Whoop 4.0 for free and get your first month for free at https://join.whoop.com/modernwisdom (discount automatically applied) Get 50% off your first Factor Meals box by going to to https://factormeals.com/MW50 (discount automatically applied at checkout) Get a Free Sample Pack of all LMNT Flavours with your first box at https://www.drinklmnt.com/modernwisdom (automatically applied at checkout) Extra Stuff: Get my free reading list of 100 books to read before you die: https://chriswillx.com/books Try my productivity energy drink Neutonic: https://neutonic.com/modernwisdom Episodes You Might Enjoy: #577 - David Goggins - This Is How To Master Your Life: http://tinyurl.com/43hv6y59 #712 - Dr Jordan Peterson - How To Destroy Your Negative Beliefs: http://tinyurl.com/2rtz7avf #700 - Dr Andrew Huberman - The Secret Tools To Hack Your Brain: http://tinyurl.com/3ccn5vkp - Get In Touch: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chriswillx Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/chriswillx YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/modernwisdompodcast Email: https://chriswillx.com/contact - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What's happening people? Welcome back to the show my guest today is Mike Thurston. He's a podcaster, YouTuber and a fitness model. Me and Mike went to university 15 years ago and yet in 2024 many of the problems that we encountered back then have gotten even worse. Why is there a lack of confidence? Overly comparative mindsets and body dysmorphia so persistent and how do we go about fixing it? Expect to learn why male body dysmorphia is on track to overtake female body dysmorphia. What Mike's relationship with social media looks like right now, where you actually gain confidence from, whether being super highly followed on the internet makes you more or less self-assured, how your priorities should change as you get older, Mike's thoughts

on Sam Sulik and much more. I am not kidding when I say the rest of this month. Is insane for guests. I've got some returning monsters, some first time highly highly requested guests, and it's all going down next week in Vegas and LA. So make sure that you've hit the subscribe button because it's the only way that you can ensure you will not miss episodes when they go live and it helps to support the show and it makes me very happy indeed. So navigate to Apple Podcasts or Spotify and press the follow button.

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to nomatic.com slash modern wisdom. Use the code modern wisdom at checkout. That's nomatic.com slash modern wisdom and modern wisdom. A checkout. This episode is brought to you by whoop. I've won whoop for over four years now, since way before they were a partner on the show and it is the only wearable I have ever stuck with because it's the best. It is so innocuous. You do not remember that you've got it on. And yet, it tracks absolutely everything.

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That's surprising. No, I think there's always been a thing, but especially now with how big social media is and how jacked so many people are, I think of course it's a big problem. But do you know there's a guy who's really good at calling people out for editing their photos? You've seen that guy. I don't know his name, but he's got quite a big social media following. Basically anybody who has photo shops,

their photo or videos, he gets them. Oh, wow. So he's doing a good job. He's making sure that people are being truthful with the things that they're posting. But that makes you think how many people are editing, even people who are literally jacked and shredded. They are still editing their photos further to

bring in their waist, bring out the lats and just it's crazy. So, especially with women as well, imagine how bad that is for the average person who's, compare themselves to all these people. And a lot of those people are actually still editing their photos to look even more and more. Yeah, they're able. Peaked, they've just trained, they've got a pump, they're in good lighting, they've got a good photographer, a good camera and good lens, they've got a tan, blah, blah, blah, and then on top of that, they're editing their photos as well.

Yeah, it's, you know, I think that it's one thing that messed me up a little bit when I competed. So I competed twice. And obviously when you compete, that really is the best that you are going to look probably in your life, especially for me in terms of how low I got my body fat percentage. So when I would look in the mirror, particularly after the show, when it was like more memorable, I would be like, oh, pretty fat because you had

yourself, because I was comparing myself to the sub 10% body fat person that I was looking in the mirror, which is like, that says it all that not only can you have other people out there in the world for guys and girls that make them feel uncomfortable about their body or their taller or more jacked or more whatever, but you can also be that for you too. I wanted to talk about this, you're 34?

33, I'm 35. And we're getting to the stage where we're like, right, okay, recovery from workouts takes a little bit longer, recovery from nights out takes an awful lot longer. You think more wrinkles on the forehead, my photographer keeps reminding me that, Chisrop, don't listen to them. Don't listen to them. Yeah, just thinking about, as that happens,

you almost use yourself as what I used to be X or Y as I used to be this able to get up and train hard or lift this much or be this lean or eat this many calories or whatever. And then you can't. So you use yourself as your own barometer and, you know, the discomfort that's associated with that. I've not been as jacked as you used to be. Not being as able to recover from workouts as you used to be. It's like a harsh realization. Like the body, it's more for you. I think with me in particular, I've not really been that person that's always compared myself to others, but more so I'm always comparing myself to myself and how good I have looked

in the past. That's what I'm always comparing myself to. And you're right. I think fortunately for me now, I still feel like I don't know if I have peaked, I think especially if I was to fine tune a few things. The peak is still yet to come, but when I do have these thoughts of, okay, well, Sony downhill from here. Yeah.

Then I'm like, you do know that I think about that and this, whatever you want to call about it, like aging gracefully as a man, whatever that means, right? Probably not taking all of your self-worth from the way you look, might be a good place to start. And I think, you know, how difficult it's gonna be a recovery from the workouts and not being as jacked and not being the fastest guy in the room or the strongest guy in the room or whatever,

but then you realize that that's like women from age 25. Yeah, I think we his men have got it good. Like we can get older and age and get the gray whiskers more wrinkles. And if anything is still kind of, you might even make you look better. Like I remember, I look back at some footage from what I was, even like 20, 27, 28,

and I feel personally, I look a lot better now. Like I had like, maybe it didn't help that. I was like clean, shaving myself all the time. But I look as you grow into your style a little bit. But yeah, you know, for all that, I can be chronically fearful of my own mortality and getting older and all the rest of it. Thinking, yeah, but the speed of descent isn't as rapid as it is for women.

So yeah, the male body to Smolf you think being on track to overtake female body to Smolf you kind of doesn't surprise me. I think you probably just have to be careful with who you're following and who you compare on yourself to. Like, if you were an average guy and you are following the, like, top 1% of athletes in the world, the top 1% of athletes in the world, the top 0.0%, 1%. Of course, you're gonna feel pretty small in comparison to them.

So it depends, for someone like me, if I am following the elite, but you trained with Ky Green this morning. Yeah, so... It's a pretty good sense in town at the moment. So if I'm following them, I am a type person that gets inspired by it. Like, I get motivated by that.

But other people can take it the opposite way and be like, oh, that's unachievable. I'll never get there. And I feel worthless. Yeah. What's your relationship like with social media now? Oh, I think I would love to not have to be on it so much, but I've know it's something which I need to be doing regularly more than ever, especially with what we do.

In today's day and age, you have to be everywhere. Even to this day, I don't like how I still get sucked into it every single time in terms of the doom scrolling. I go on there to do a task, then I get distracted by something, and then I'm scrolling. Then I fall off. Still haven't done that.

I'm like, oh, 15 minutes, fuck, you know. I'm like, I won, I didn't do the thing. I'm supposed to do it, so you have to go back onto it again. So I think, yeah, from that point of view, I hate how good it is, just sucking you in and rewarding you. Third, just getting a notification or whatever. In terms of YouTube and stuff, I'm quite selective with what I consume.

Like, I want to go on to YouTube, but I like to watch things which I'm going to no doubt get educated by. I like to watch a lot of podcasts, anything which I'm going to learn, something by Instagram as well. It's a bit of podcasts, anything which I'm going to learn something by Instagram as well. It's it's a bit of a mess. I have it. I like now to employ as many people as possible to just run the platform. Yeah. So that I don't have to go on to it. I still actually, it's a recent thing. I don't look at comments anymore. Okay. That used to

still mess with your head. I think particularly like with the gym-related videos, I would do a gym workout or try and do an educational video talking about like, how to do this exercise or whatever. And then the comments sections, all sterile, sterile, sterile, sterile stories. What I like was fake naïve, and it's just like, I'm trying to help people. Yeah, the whole conversation is about whether or not I'm natural. And you should annoy me so much that I actually pivoted away for making gym videos because it was so annoying. That I just know one's talking about your supposed steroids

and a lifestyle vlog in Marbella. Yeah, so like the less gym related stuff in it, there's kind of less negativity. Dude, I mean, that's something that's really true that the audience gets to influence the direction of the creator in a lot of ways. And if they make them feel very uncomfortable about whatever it is that they're doing, they're going to start to lean away from that type of content.

It was one of the reasons why I got hair transplant. So when I was losing my hair and it was thinning really badly, I look back at it now, I was like, puff, like it was pretty bad. And I was like, I don't ever remember it being that bad. I mean, it was, it was it. There was a six month phase where probably should have just shaved it. Like, you know how when everyone's losing their hair,

they try and just cling onto it. And you just got like little strands just, you know, it's looking pretty pathetic and lonely. And the whole comment section was just like, ah, he's losing his hair like, oh, the steroids are getting my work. And it was just like, I'm making these videos, yeah, all everybody wants to talk about is the hair loss.

Yeah, well, we spoke about this the last time that I had you on. I mentioned that I admire the fact that you've chosen to stay out of internet drama, as best you can. I think that's partly both yours and my disposition, which is I'm just not very conflicty person. I quite like having been chill and peaceful and relaxing and I'm not in it for the beef. But there's certainly

It feels extra unfair if you haven't done made a career out of, like James Smith, right, my partner in Newtonic. He made a career calling people out for like shit, fitness advice, or for lying about stuff, or for editing photos, or for being, you know, an ethical. It's kind of open season for him, because guess what, like that's the way that you went about things. I knew, like as we were in the buildup launching this drink and he started doing call out videos about prime,

and everything else, and I was like, James, you do know that by doing this, you're just making it open season on us. But anyway, for him, it's like, all right, well, you know, if you've spent a lot of time criticizing other people, it's kind of open season on you. That's not to say that people who've never criticized should be insulated from any criticism.

But, it's just like, I don like, what have I done to you? Yeah, why you dragging me into this? Yeah, but in a way, I was, it's kind of good in one sense because it's exposure. But when it is a person of authority talking shit about you, then they have a huge audience who do listen to every word that they say. The influence.

And it's kind of a, it's a, only one argument is being put forward. Of course, you could do a response video and give your side of it, but where does it end? And then they're like, yes, I've got him. I've got him. Yeah. Yeah, but I think, you know, even for the people that aren't content creators, everybody, especially I think, you know, even for the people that aren't content creators, everybody, especially with TikTok, TikTok is so, the number of followers you have basically doesn't

count. If you put an insane video on TikTok, guess what? There's a million likes on it, you know, if it's really, really good and you catch the algorithm at the right time, et cetera, et cetera, which means now that everybody, content creator or mother that happens to take a funny video of her dog doing something is open to the entire internet saying, oh, that's animal abuse. Or whatever, you know what I mean? Like, there's just everybody's open to criticism.

And I think some kind of education about how to deal with criticism from strangers on the internet would probably be a pretty good thing for everybody to learn. Yeah. I remember when I started with YouTube, I think whenever you're on a platform, the people can post anonymously. They'll go harder. They'll be more relentless with what it is that they want to say.

And I think that took me a bit of getting used to. And I almost had to learn, okay, I've got to develop thick skin here in order to just carry on with doing it. I mean, even the people who are like the nicest guys ever that you would just, and girls, you just think, how can you not like this person, like such a likable person, they're still getting hate

for some things of distaste. Yeah, well, there's an idea called the bystander effect. Do you have you heard of this? No. So, you have a crime. Let's say somebody's being attacked, right, in the courtyard of a bunch of flats somewhere. And everybody that lives in the flats, here's the attack going on and there's someone, you know, screaming for help or saying, please ring the police or whatever, all of the

people think that one of the other people will do the right thing and call the police or whatever, the bystander effect. And there's kind of an anonymity equivalent here, which is when you know that you're not going to be found out, you can almost lean in and be a little bit way more mean, no one's going to come after you, you're not going to be held accountable for the things you say. If it's a burner account on YouTube,

like, you know, I mean, to some of the stuff, like anti-Semitism and stuff that's happened this year, on like random comment threads and I'll see people talking in code about like, like, you know, whatever reverse anti-Semitism. Crazy. Crazy, crazy stuff. One of the things I was interested in, when the reasons I asked about the male body dysmorphia thing and your relationship with social media. I don't think I've asked you this what drove you in the first place to dedicate so much time to go into the gym and building a business and doing stuff like that because it's been a very very long road, significantly more consistent than most people are. And now it might be habit, but what was it originally? I think originally on the back end of when Facebook was at its peak, and then when Instagram started, I think I just liked being able to showcase all the hard work that I had put in with the gym. I was like, oh, like this is an opportunity to show the world like, this is what I I've achieved But what about before that? What about when you started training like why do you start training?

so I think it was probably a combination of a few different things because I was playing rugby for a solid nine years and I enjoyed it, but I think near the end of last few years of playing rugby like is maybe I didn't like the idea of being in a team and I've became very frustrated sometimes when I wanted to do something like I wanted to switch this game around, but I had to rely on the other 14 players to sort this shit out. I felt like a lot of time I was out of control.

So I liked the way that the gym thing was a very individual thing. It was just about you, you're in complete control. I remember the first time when I, I remember just walking into the gym at the school that I went to. It was probably 17 years old. Nobody was there. It wasn't really a thing. I had no idea what I was doing, but I put my favorite music on the speakers speakers and just started like just using a few of the machines. And I was just super happy doing it.

And then I remember looking in the mirror and saw a little bit of a pump and I was like, fuck it out, like I look good. So it was the instant reward that you would get from going to the gym, which made me almost want more of it. And then I think I always wanted to just be a bigger guy. I can remember there's one point when I was on, I don't know if I was 15 or 16, I ended up getting mugged on a bus. So I was on a bus. So some leads?

Yeah. Double deck of bus. And yeah, these two guys came on and basically just started fucking with me. And then wanted to take my money and I felt completely useless. I couldn't do anything about it. I was like a little skinny kid back then. So I was shook by the whole experience and I felt like completely unprepared for any kind of confrontation that I thought, well, I need to put on some size. Like, I

know maybe I should learn how to fight but the easiest thing for me to do right now is just to look like the type of guy that you probably wouldn't want to get in a fight with. And that's been, I think, it's been pretty good. The fact that I've been able to put on size, I'm not the type of person that people come up to and want to start a fight with, which is good.

Most of the time, it's really good. I never go look for trouble. You can overshoot that. There's definitely a size that you get to where you'll want to like, I want to fucking drop this guy. Yeah, exactly. You're in this Goldilocks zone in the middle. Yeah, I think it's so nice to hear that.

And it was the same for me. Like I was, you know, skinny kid picked on sometimes in school for not being as like big as everybody else or whatever. And I didn't want to be like that. I wanted to feel like I had more physical, for mid-ability. And I don't know if it had something to do with me. I should be like really awkward with girls as well.

So I don't know if that had, maybe my chat was so bad that I thought, well, compensate for this horrendous chat that I have, at least I can look good. And then I don't have to do as much work. My social anxiety doesn't matter as much. Yeah, but even with that man, like, all of these things are the pure, beautiful reasons

why guys start going to the gym. And a good chunk of that, I think, has been lost in talk about body dysmorphia and comparison and, you know, unrealistic male body image standards and stuff like that. But so much of it is just, I want to feel more like a man when I've still got kind of the body of a boy. And I want to be more attractive to women and I want to be more confident. I don't understand why all men don't want to try and improve their physique and the way they look, because so much of what I have achieved

at this point in time has come from my physique. Like, it's crazy how many doors it's opened for me, but at the same time, just the confidence that it gives you. I know there's quite a lot of big jacked guys who are, you know, just don't have that confidence. But if you are unhappy about your life or there's something not going right, the easiest thing you can do is just to at least try and sort out your physical appearance. And you usually, once you sort that out, good things start coming after that. The bars set pretty low as well. If you go, if you do push per leg split three times a week for a year, you're probably in the top one percent of that.

That's really all you need. I think a lot of people get confused and they think, oh, well, in order to look like that, or if I want to look better, then I have to go to the gym six times a week and I have to start eating this boring stuff every single day. In reality, you don't need to do that. It's just the consistent efforts every single week, but most people, they go through periods, whether it be a few weeks or a few months, where everything's going good, and then it just stops. Other people come up to me and they're like, oh yeah, I'm just kind of unhappy with my shape at the moment. I'm like, so tell me about your training

what's it been like. And they say, oh yeah, so I'm really means to the gym for the past six months. I'm like, how have you not been to the gym for the past six months? Like, of course, you're not where you want to be because you've done six months of nothing. Like, you should be doing something every single week.

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eight flavors with your first box. That's drinklmnt.com slash modern wisdom. What's that sort of journey taught you about where confidence comes from? Because it has to come from something more than simply the way that you look. Yeah, I learned that. I think it's many different areas of life. I don't think I was fully content

and comfortable with the person that I was. Probably at the age of 20, 27, 28. I just feel like at that point in time I was like, okay, my shit is soared now. I think a lot of it came from being financially comfortable as well. I feel like it's quite hard to be comfortable and not comfortable, so confident when you have no money in your account. Like you could look at the part, you could be great with women or great at talking. But let's say for example, if I was in a room full of very successful entrepreneurs that a lot of money, I would feel the absolute opposite of confident. I'd be like, wow, I really have nothing to offer in this situation right now. So the moment I got my finances sorted, I was happy with my physique, the way I looked,

the lessons which I had learnt from previous relationships, and just from previous work experiences. What about the social confidence, other confidence with women as well though? I think that came from just experience of having lots of different relationships, because I just like now, if or past few years, what I'd been dating someone the first time I would go around first date, it's just like, oh, here we go again, like you just know, you know what to do, you know what to say and everything is good. But I think as well, this being on YouTube has helped massively. So I have drastically improved my ability to speak in front of the camera, speaking in front of like lots of different people to be able to have a conversation

with someone to be able to entertain the audience that's watching you. That has massively helped with my social interactions. Because most of the time I'm more introvert. Like, look at the introvert at extra-furt scale. I'm more on the introverted side. I think before the days of YouTube I was a lot more introvert. Like, I had my group of friends and my social circle. But you never see me come out of my shell

unless I was with my closest friends. And even then, if I was in a situation with a lot of people, I'd be the quiet guy, not really saying anything, I would just listen. So the whole journey through the social media of the YouTube has helped me to come out of my shell, and I'm a lot more confident now, I have a lot more to say. But there's still that introverted aspect to me where, let's say, for example, you've got a day full of socializing, talking, whatever, I come back home and I'm like, dead, and I need to be alone just to recharge. So it's, yeah, I think I always ask myself this, and I want to ask you this as well, if there's one thing that you can change about yourself, what would it be? Because for me, I think I would like, if I could be more extroverted, I

feel like I would be able to go further with my career and everything that I'm doing because I would just naturally want to be meeting everyone, go into events, chat into everyone, just entertaining everyone. But to me, that's like it takes a lot of work for me to do that. And even before, sometimes before, as an event, I have to psych myself up to go, because I just want to stay at home and just do my thing. It would be alone sometimes, but I need to go to this thing. So I have to get myself prepared. And then I go and I do it, and I'm actually really happy

after it's done, because I went and did something I didn't want to do. And it ended up actually being like, really good. There's a big hill to get over before you do it though. Yeah, I mean, that would certainly be a big, it would be a huge change for me if I did that. It does, even though standing out the front of a thousand club nights and meeting a million people, right, across a 15 year career, that it didn't feel like socializing.

I wasn't properly invested in all of these people. It was just like... You lost small talk. Yeah, yeah. Which was good. With drunk people. With very drunk people. But I would have been... I would have liked to have tuned up the extraversion as well because it does take... It does take a good chunk of energy for me to go and do that. I've noticed that with these live shows, doing a meet-and-greet at the end. It's like a high intensity interval conversation of 500, 600 people in half an hour or 45

minutes. That dude, Peterson, going on this tour that he's done, which is basically a permanent world tour, and he's meeting, I think you need to get a special ticket or whatever says maybe 300 people, 400 people a night that have the big dick ticket that allows you to get the meet and greet. But he's doing it every single night, you know, like 50 dates, 100 dates a year, I don't know how many. Dude, it's, for me, very, very exhausting.

I think that he's kind of a little bit introverted at least as well. So that would be, that would be a huge change. What else do I wish that I would change? Have a good bit of self-doubt around whether or not I'm doing the right thing or whether I'm doing the thing right. I think you're doing the right. I think certainly now the results are showing. But that's the thing. I feel like when I see you interview these people, I'm like, fuck, you're balk to do this. Thank you. And I think it's like,. Like, I feel like when I see you interview these people, I'm like, fuck, you're a boulder who this. Thank you.

And I think it's like, you've not even really got started yet. Well, like, what is the goal? You want to be number one podcast in the world? Rogan's got that title, man. Like the guys are fucking, I like to walk Patrick's said about the three main characteristics or attributes of a good or the best podcaster. Yeah, one of them is having that natural curiosity and asking the right questions. The other thing is being able to entertain the guest, be a good host. And the other one is actually having an audience that really want to hear your own opinion on a specific topic. Yeah, I had a conversation about this one of the Q&A's at the live show

asked about basically you're going to do more solar stuff over the next few years and I was so unconfident and so unprepared to think that I was bigger than I am. Like, who am I to spout my opinion, sat at a table with Andrew Hubeman? Like, it's obvious who's the A side here, right? It's obviously him. He's the one that's got the expertise and the PhD from Stanford and all the rest of it. Just let him shine. And I'm really good at letting other people shine.

But there definitely seems to be, I don't know, there's like, it's good to develop your own opinions around things and to put those forward and to have faith that what you have to say might be of use or of interest to be more than that to play with ideas. I wonder what happens, I wonder what people think about this. I've got this idea about this thing, I wonder what people think about that. But I think for a good chunk of time as well, I was just so concerned about putting something forward that made me look stupid. I'm gonna put this idea forward and I'm...

What are the live shows? No, no, no, no, on the show, on the podcast. So gonna have some idea, I've got to take on whatever this thing is, like don't comment on things that you know nothing about. But when you're sat with an expert, you always know nothing in comparison with the expert, even if you know almost everything in comparison with a normal person that knows nothing about it.

Right? So because you're, I've made a career out of being the most stupid person in every conversation. Right. Do you feel like there's a pressure for you to improve your knowledge in all these different areas? Because you've had guests on from every different industry and market. Do you feel like, fuck, I need to learn more about this and more about this and more about this?

So, because being a good host is your ability to just have good general knowledge about anything. That's true. So I think I wanted to do this as a challenge a year ago. I wanted to do a day of recording where I didn't know anything about the guest. I didn't know who they were. And I would just sit down opposite them. And I had to try and hold a conversation together

without the audience realizing. And me just going like, so what do you think most people get wrong about the world that you come from? Like, what do you say, like trying to sort of work out without actually asking them, so what do you do? I thought that would be kind of fun to do. But I'd do it. I'd still consider doing it.

I, it's a big long list of things that I want to do. But yeah, I think one of the reasons why I, I stayed clear of putting my own opinion forward was I didn't want to feel silly, I didn't want to say things. The internet can be a bit of a fucking ruthless place with playing with ideas. And you know, you don't want to, you don't want to look like the idiot in the room, more than you already are. But yeah, I know enough now to be able to hold a conversation with pretty much anybody, especially if it's about them, right? If it's, we're talking about fitness, we're talking about psychology, we're talking about fitness, we're talking about psychology,

we're talking about philosophy, we're talking about politics, we're talking about whatever, it's like I can draw out of pretty much anyone. When it comes to me having my own takes on stuff, I have things that, you know, I've got domains of expertise, you want to talk to me about training, about mental health, about psychology, evolution, like all of these things I've got. But if we start to push out into, how are we going to fix the problems of the Middle East? Is that bro? Like, that's not my bag.

And then working out where the line is between those two, and not just spouting more noise into the world, actually adding some signal, which is useful to people, that's kind of, that's something that I'm maybe I should do more, but then another bit of me thinks, well, just bring on the guy that knows and be the person that's able to get the best answer out of there. Yeah, ask the fucking expert. I don't need to go on WebMD and try and self-diagnose with whatever ailment I've got.

It's like, just get the doctor, the equivalent of the doctor on speak to that person. But there's definitely a bit of me that wants to do, that doesn't just only want to be the person that plays second string to the expert in the room. It'd be great to be considered an expert in my own right. And yeah, it's interesting. Getting past that discomfort or that uncertainty about whether or not you have legitimacy, because everyone else has a million letters after their name or is a PhD or is a billionaire or something and you go,

the fuck, like, why should I, like, I'm just the guy that asks the questions. Speaking of discomfort, what was it like the first time doing the show, like the very first show? Light show? Yeah, were you shooting yourself? That was nerve-wracking, because for me,

yeah, the thought of that is scary. I think as well, it's Q&A is fine, but to go up there by yourself and to talk for an hour or more about something. Like first I was thinking, what the hell would I even talk about? What would people even want to know? Like I guess I would have to sit down and think about it. I'm sure that there is an audience out there that want to hear me talk about something. Dude, I would I'd attend. But yeah, the live shows that I've done are just did wanting to buy and now I fly to Edmonton for 20 hours with James tomorrow morning at 2am. Yeah, he's going to suck myself out with me. He's managed to book us one of those things

that's like the side by side seats as well, like with the dividing door. I'm going to put the door up enough to speed up the entire time. But standing on stage, you know, this is kind of old trope for people that listen to Rogan and they're always on about you work in the material and the crowd energy and the room and the vibe and all this sort of stuff. But it's wild to stand on stage and just have, you know, 80 eyes or a thousand eyes or whatever it was in the Dubai show the other night like a thousand people there or whatever, just looking at you. And you can't see the end of the room.

It's like it's just endless. And then you look at what Schultz has done. He sold out where the Raptors play in Canada or he just did this place in Australia. It's so far away that they need repeater screens to be able to see the fucking dude that's just this little dot down on that and he has the pressure of having to say something funny. He's going to be funny. I mean, nearly every 10-20 seconds he has to say something funny.'ve got to get a laugh. At least you don't have that pressure. Absolutely. Yeah, I mean, it's so such a good insight that if you're doing anything close to public

speaking and you manage to get four zingers in the space of an hour, like you're hilarious. And if you're a comedian that doesn't get four zingers in a minute, you're shit. So, yeah, the criteria is very different, But it was very nerve-racking. The most nerve-racking one that I did was the very first work in progress show in Austin. So I ran this show four times in Austin in front of 40 people at this tiny kind of rundown comedy club, East Austin comedy club. I ran that four times in front of 40 people. But that's kind of even more scary because you can hear like a cough. Or you can hear like someone's phone vibrating in that pocket, you can hear everything. It's just you in a room.

I don't even really need a mic. I could probably just speak and everyone would hear. And before I went on, I checked my whoop. And you know, it's got the stress monitor. My stress is at like two point. You've been cycling. Two point eight. Exactly.

Nice. Good evening workout Chris. I was just scared. But to be honest man, after a while, I'd, you're so confident in the material because it's a set, right? It's not scripted, but the idea is, I know this idea is interesting and this idea is interesting and this idea makes people laugh and this idea makes people cry and this idea does whatever. And after a while, you just have faith that what you're saying is important.

Maybe like me saying to you, like here's a word forward script that you can say that will make people be interested in what you say in life, learn it off by heart, go on stage and say it, and I can guarantee 100% that it'll be fine. You wouldn't feel nervous. What you're nervous about is the uncertainty of whether or not you're going to look silly up on stage.

And after you've done sufficient iterations of anything, Repsyn, yeah. It's the same with the show. The only difference is that you don't have the live audience in front of you, having live audience in front of you and saying a thing and then watching them and being like, please love me. Like, just at least please don't think that I'm totally terrible. Jimmy Carter told me a true entertainer says, if you don't love me, I don't love me. And I think that that kind of, I can see how someone who's entire industry is, the audience

needs to give me adoration. And that's where I get my sense of self-esteem from. Kind of the same, you know, looking at the bodybuilding world, which is ruthless because it's not even an objective metric. That's 380 kilos, whichever man that weighs 93 kilos picks that up wins. It's like subjective and ephemeral, and you know, it's like he's got better shape or conditioning or proportions or whatever. It's very, very hard, but you're permanently just outsourcing your sense of self worth to these fucking judges.

Well, especially if you're competing, and it's, yeah, it's the judges you need to impress, and for whatever reason they're not impressed, they can get so many doubts throughout this year, or like big thighs or anything, or whatever. Yeah, it's crazy. Yeah, but it's been very interesting. It's been, the veils of kind of fallen from my eyes

a little bit about seeing super, super competent people up on stage because the infinitely better than I am, but you can just see it's OK, it's just one step after the next. Watching Jimmy Carr in Wembley, he did two hours and 20 minutes of one-liners, it must have been 400 jokes in like two and a bit hours. I was like, oh my God. And we were with him 30 seconds before he walked out on stage.

Because I was checking my watch going like, you go on stage in 10 minutes, you're honest to, because he might need to do some pre-game ritual or whatever, get his head in the game. He's like, no, no, no, it's fine. Stick him out. Stick him out. And then he was like, all right, ready to go to us. And like Jimmy's about to get the fucking headset on or whatever and walk head in the game, he's like, no, no, no, it's fine, stick about, stick about. And then he was like, all right, ready to go boss. And like Jimmy's about to get the fucking headset on or whatever and walk out on stage.

And I was like, should we leave? And he's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, crack on, I'll see you out there. Unbelievable. Crazy. But you see, you know, anyone's just accumulated those skills over time. And I think it's kind of the same with the first time

you did a YouTube video, the first time you did a podcast, the first time you did whatever, there's just this extra degree of I can see the people watching and it's yeah, first time I did a podcast that was like what's my dude? It was your first one? It's will will I'm at the founder of when straight into the deep end with a CEO founder of a billionaire a billion company crazy But yeah, it's like the moment you start doing more and more than it just becomes normal. I can imagine like, especially for you doing three a week, you're at what, you're in these 700s,

that would be seven, 20, something like that, yeah. It must be so normal. Yeah, it is. And that's something that's quite bizarre, to do something very alien. I mean, think about this, pond stars. I would love to ask our friend Lauren whether or not it's like whether there's still intimacy in that because what you're looking at, a conversation like this, usually very messy, very unstructured, is someone will get up and go

and do a thing, people are on their phone, you know, there's like all structural side to things, plus then there's cameras, plus then there's a team of people, plus then there's, you know, it's going out to an audience and there's going to be scrutiny and there's going to be criticism, there's going to be whatever. So it's like a something that you're familiar with in an alien environment. And I wonder whether porn stars feel the same, something that you can be quite familiar with, but in an even more alien environment. Like it's this, I think I was speaking to Sterling, he's an ex-pawn star. He was saying that there, with some actresses, there's just an instant chemistry that you can't really explain, but it's just like a thing.

And it just makes things automatically very spicy and flow naturally. Whereas sometimes it's just like robustness. There's nothing there and it's just very forced, but yet you have to try and force that chemistry. Like tell when you watch porn if it's like, if they have a good time or not, how much porn do you watch? Oh, it's weird. I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like. I'm like, I'm a sir. But yeah, it's weird to think like, can people reintegrate? This is one thing, so I've been doing therapy in Austin. This lady's great. This woman that I've been working with,

why is it going to need therapy? I think that everyone does. I genuinely think that everybody would benefit from just- I would love to have, I don't know if it would be therapy or just to speak to an expert on relationships. Because I feel like that is something every day, every year, I'm still learning more about relationships and how do they work? Are you with the right person? What? I'm sure there's a lot of things wrong with me. I don't think I'm an easy person today, especially with my job the way I looked, social media, it's whoever I'm

in a relationship with, they have to be, they're going to deal with that. Yeah, they're going to deal with the fact that I'll get attention. And you know, probably if I'm with a really hot girl, which I have been in the past, like, day obviously, have attention as well. But I'm cool with that. It's a tricky one. And I think, I think I've always been pretty horrendous at communicating. That's just who I am. I don't know. I keep a lot of my feelings to myself and just assume that they know what's going on or that everything's all right.

But in reality, you need to have a pretty hard conversation. Neil Strauss, the guy that wrote the game, who is now kind of this super aligned awakened family man, this fucking awesome quote from him that said, unspoken expectations are premeditated resentments. Jesus Christ, unspoken expectations are premeditated resentments. And when you're talking about that, I will maybe keep my feelings to myself. I won't really mention something that's either bugging me or that I wish that I would bring up, but you get the sense that the other person should know or might know or could know or whatever. And after a while, you almost end up building a conversation

with yourself about the thing that you never said to the person who didn't know it. So yeah, I mean, Bill Perkins that wrote, die with zero, one of the most dialed systems guys that I know, Ali Abdahl came out to fucking wake surfing with us. Ali had a bad day. I bet it was good at that. Alex O'Connor cosmic skeptic came out and stood up first, first try, you said, my friend went out e-foiling yesterday over there, stood up within the first session.

Ali Abdahl, not like, I mean, so just insanely smart. And I think he's got, he's got like, I can't remember what he's got at, he's got it like some physical sport, but like, it wasn't fucking way exerting. Anyway, he asked Bill Perkins what's the number one coach that you've got out of everything,

the business coaching all the rest of it, he was like, relationship coach. First thing he said, relationship coach, most important. And they check in, I think both partners work separately and then they maybe do couples. I think after... To begin with, in the honeymoon period is fine. You don't need any help. It just runs itself.

But the longer the relationship goes on for like, after a year, after two years, that's when you have to work at it. That's what I've learned. After a two-year relationship, there's things you have to work at it. That's what I've learned. After a two-year relationship, there's things you've got to work on. And there's a lot still which I need to learn. I've had a lot of relationships that have been six months. But in that way, only my own period and over. This episode is brought to you by Factor. I get asked all the time about how to build and maintain muscle. And the most important thing, the first thing you need to do is ensure you are getting 1 gram per kilo of body weight in protein

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Oh God, yeah. What do you think about Sam Suleik? I am, this is, I'm so fascinated how certain people just pop off on social media. Like I'm trying to understand that what has the formula been? Like I didn't, I didn't know of him before until it's basically kind of, you see the memes first. You like, what's the remind about this guy? And then you go onto the Instagram, you go onto the YouTube and you just see like the following and the consistently high views and you're like, what's he doing

then? And you watch it. It's just like pretty normal. There's no fancy edits or anything cinematic. It's just, I think the reason why it's works so well is because he's just gotten almost in the opposite direction instead of trying too hard with the show and off and the music's the edit. He's just like, this is just a normal guy. It's just, it's no music. After that first thing, just as far as I know, it's just a camera on a tripod,

and he's just doing his thing and sharing his thoughts, which is very simple, but after watching it, it makes sense why it works. He has some in a lot of insightful things to say. I think I had this term of the day, growth hacking authenticity. And I think that everybody now is so skeptical of someone that's contriving a version of themselves. If you see someone that looks like they're trying too hard or they're putting on a particular, it's just there's discomfort and it can, oh I don't like that. And I think

Sam's lack of fancy car or fancy edit or fancy thumbnails or like any of that is just a signal of reliability. I think that's what people think. I think it's very relatable. If you think about how many men are in a similar situation to him, I remember when I started the YouTube channel, like everything was really basic. I was in, you know, not a very, it was a terrorist house in Newcastle. I was doing my meal prep video in a pretty shabby kitchen. My pots and pans were all completely fucked up. Like, there was no lubrication on it.

It was just sticking to everything. And I was just doing my meal prep, shopping at Liddle or Aldi and just taking it to work with me. And people love that, because so many people could relate to it. And I remember the moment I kind of moved away from that, staying in more fancier places

when I upgraded to my apartment in London and I left London and came to Dubai. It was, my audience was divided. There was half of them who were like really inspired and they were like, wow, like look what he's done. I want to do this as well. And then there's the other half who were just like, I can't really relate to you anymore. I can't relate to your life. Make no mistake man. If I was to guess the revenue that Sam is making per month, forget his hostile sponsorship and forget the other stuff just from AdSense

I reckon it's at least a quarter of a mill. Yeah, I'm on the banging out video nearly every day It's daily videos of half a mill. Yes, I probably I've brought the mill up a month There is always trends in the industry like something comes along from nowhere and is very popular. But there's very few things that remain that popular over a long period of time. Like will it get to a point where his style of videos and not going to do it for people? Like the gets to a point where it's I was boring now. Like let me find something. What's the next?

Absolutely. Trending thing. Yeah. but it's, I was boring now. Like, let me find something, what's the next, what's the next, what's the next, what's the next, what's the next, what's the next, what's the next, what's the next, what's the next, what's the next,

what's the next, what's the next, what's the next, what's the next, what's the next, what's the next, what's the next, what's the next, what's the next,

what's the next, what's the next, what's the next, what's the next, what's the next, what's the next, what's the next, what's the next, what's say, Mike Thurston, well-edited fitness vlog with cool, fucking cinematic lighting and a guy with a gimbal and stuff, there's a Sam Suleik, which is kind of the same thing, but delivered in a very different sort of a way. Summer 2020, everyone's locked down, no one can go out. Summer 2021, Megan DeStyle and just Hot Girls Summer, dress yourself up, go out, have

casual sex, like be dold and glam. Summer 2022 is feral girl summer, which is be a sloth, don't shave, don't wash, you don't need to be bothered to even leaving the house just eat beans in your pajamas. So like you have culture or trend and then counterculture or countertrend. And I think that Sam largely is not necessarily, probably a worse example to use you. I don't know who he's quite the antithesis of, but he's definitely counter to much of the fitness industry that is contrived. That's like, you know, kind of like the equipment of the pop idol boy band that was like pieced together, like you're the cool one and you're the whatever one.

It doesn't feel like that. It's just some bloke going about his day. But, and I said this on an episode with Zach and people got mad about it. I still think it's the truth. If Sam wasn't elite level jacked, people wouldn't follow him. I think that what works about Sam,

if Sam was some skinny, skinny fat guy that wasn't in good condition, wasn't lifting heavy and didn't have really great insight about fitness, he's just some bloke going to the gym. That's a lot of people. That's right. That's all, that's everyone's YouTube. That's every person's YouTube channel.

I think that Sam is a likable, relatable guy who happens to be fucking massive. it's like oh like he's me But better yeah, he's so much of what we have is relatable and is the same And on top of that he's you know bodybuilder huge was like I look at see them as well like see them has This huge huge like he is the biggest name in bodybuilding now. And I try and think, well, okay, so why is that the case? Obviously, he looks amazing, but he's such a nice humble guy as well that I can't imagine why anyone would ever have a problem with him. So you combine that super jacked, amazing physique with just being a nice humble guy And it does without a doubt get harder to remain humble when you have that many people who are idolizing you

You have like 21 million people following you to not let that get to your head Well, there's two two ways that it can get to your head the first one being your ego is being inflated by everyone thinking that you're great the second one is you becoming defensive and bitter about all of the people criticizing you. So it works in two different ways. I'm going to become more harsh and more quick to attack because people have done it to me in the past. And all of these people are telling me that I'm great and I've got five championships. how the fuck am I not the best in the world and everyone should listen to me? Hard to tell, especially if you're combining it

with if you're taking some steroids as well, like that can also mess up with your mentality in the way that you're thinking. Yeah, I wonder, I was watching a couple of videos from the trend twins as well. And I find them a pretty interesting pair, like they're an interesting pair of dudes, but Sam is just a fucking phenom at the moment.

What's his face? Cam Haynes brought him up to Rogen yesterday on his show. Have you heard of this Sam Suleik kid? It's like, there you go. Derek from More Plate's More Dates did it as well in a little way. I think he, you know, he purposefully didn't make his... Yeah, like he could have definitely leveled up with the production.

Yep. Is that not? No, people just wanted that like, relatability, like high level insight, sprinkling of autism. Like that's what they wanted from there. Sometimes I try not to get too heavily influenced because you know, I've had him and Gadsie on the show. Yes.

The production quality on his videos is absolutely like insane. Like, best of the best. And then I'm thinking, fuck, maybe I need to get to that level of production. But I don't need to. I just focus on what it is that you're going to say. You're going to say. Because if you go too hard with the production, it gets a bit distracting and maybe again, it becomes unrelatable. How do you think about enoughness, you know, the stress and responsibility and paranoia

that comes along for the ride with wanting more and success and money can kind of sap the fun out of it? Do you think about enoughness? I think it's harder to fall asleep quicker, that's for sure. Because when I got to bed, I'm just thinking about all the things that I need to do should be doing and haven't done. So that's taken a hit. So I remember in my 20s, I never had, I'm just, I could fall asleep straight away. Now it's a lot harder.

And yeah, I think especially right now, I'm in a position where if I really want to, I can go full steam ahead and really take things to the next level. Everything is in my favor. I have the team, I'm living here in Dubai, I'm at a point where I have a following, I have some respect. So let's go fully into this. But then that's going to come at a price. And I know if that's something which I want to do,

you know, if you want all the numbers to be increasing, the subscribers increasing, the views, the money, you know, I would have to say goodbye to a couple of things and it's going to be a sacrifice for the relationship, it's going to be a sacrifice to the things which I like to do sometimes. I like to just wake up and do nothing and do my own thing, just go for a walk, just chill just chill take life easy like I love nothing more than doing that sometimes

Which I had a kind of experience of doing that over the summer Where I wasn't working as much and less productive really just enjoying life and what I've achieved fruits of my labor But then after a couple of days or weeks of doing that you just feel like fuck I'm kind of I'm wasting my potential here and things are starting to go in the reverse direction. And I think that was quite a sort of scary experience for me. I had a big break from doing the podcast. I think I got up to, was it 20 episodes?

You know, I don't think I got myself into that 1%. I was just shy and I was like, I'm like, fuck, yeah, maybe I'm, I'm a guy. I'm just a fucking guy. I'm like, I'm myself into that 1% I was just shy and I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm a guy. I'm just a fucking guy. I'm like, I'm a guy that gave up. Yeah. And I noticed when I stopped doing the podcast, because I didn't have my team with me, I was in like,

traveling about a bit. I just, I think I just wasn't for whatever reason. I'd lost the motivation a little bit. But I just felt like I was doing a disservice to my audience. Like everyone was asking me, it's like, once in an except, so, once an except, so, felt like I was doing a disservice to my audience. Everyone was asking me, it's like, what's the next episode? And I was just like, I don't know.

I just felt like, what a fucking waste. I am. Like I have this potential and opportunity to create these amazing conversations with amazing people. But I'd rather just go to a beach club or go on a date with a girl or just fuck about. But there's a pressure that comes with that.

And yeah, I think about enoughness a good bit. I want to, I've got another episode with Hallmosey coming up probably within the next few months. I want to try and really dig into it because I know that he's 99% tile of hard working guy. It's very inspiring to be around. But I wonder how scalable and replicable that is with people who don't have his very particular quirk of mindset.

I listen to him and I'm like, I would like a little bit more of his mindset. I want more of that, I like to work, I want to do more work, I want to do less of the fun things that people want to do. But what you do realize, like saying, I want to do less of the fun things that people want to do. But what you do realize, like saying, I want to do less of the fun things, like why you're doing more of the work, presumably because the work is fun. It's like the more direct route to it is just doing the fun thing. I think if you can find a way that your job is fun, then that helps a lot. Like me and I get you as well, having the opportunity to speak to some amazing people,

it's a rewarding job and having a very positive impact on the world. Like that's, it feels pretty damn good and it doesn't really feel like work, it's a pleasure to be able to do this for a living. I think it's absolutely crazy. Even this morning, training with Kai Green, like what, I get to train with some of the best bodybuilders on the planet, like, it's a fucking dream. And I've been able, I've got myself to a position where I can do that. There's definitely a, and again, this, I think this is for everybody. You have opportunities that are in front of you. And if you're even remotely competent at what

you do, you will always have more opportunities than time to do them in. Is it your role in life to take every single opportunity that comes your way? What is life outside of those opportunities? Like how much are you grinding? This is great quote from Morgan Housel that says, the best measure of wealth is what you have minus what you want and by this measure some billionaires are broke. And it's kind of the same as what do you want from a achievement perspective. You know what's good with me? I feel like a lot of the things I wanted to do, I did in my 20s. Like I really did. There's a list of things. I really did a lot of things I wanted to do. And I think once you've done them, you realize the majority of the time, it's not actually as good as you thought it would be. You do it and you're

like, yeah, I was good, but it was a little bit of a, it was a bit of a letdown. Like I thought it was going to be better. And once you've kind of checked off more things on the list, you know, you just get like more and more motivated to actually just do this work and be of use. Yeah. Yeah, there's definitely like a bit of fuckery that goes on when you're a kid and you're happy to just bounce around and have fun.

But then as you grow up, you realize, okay, well, my time's actually fucking limited. Like, so what am I here to do? Am I here to work and not leave anything on the table? Or am I here to find time to... This is still, dude, it must be the most common theme of questions that I've probably asked anybody this year, and it's maybe telling, given how this year's gone. How can you balance being enough whilst wanting to be more?

Like, feeling comfortable and content, and your mind is where your feet are in the moment and being able to take pleasure in the things that you do and the successes that you have whilst also knowing that you don't want to leave anything on the table and you want to try and maximize your time here, your brief period of 80 years on this planet. And it's still, you know, some Harris had this really beautiful idea about the balance of being and becoming that was really lovely. But tactically, I have to say I'm struggling to still really, really get that balance nailed because so much of what you do when you want

to become better, I want to become bigger, I want to become leaner, I want to become richer, I want to move to a better house, I want to move to a better neighborhood, I want to be smarter, I want to be more articulate, whatever, all of those things, as soon as you posit that ideal, you then start to compare yourself to that ideal and you find yourself lacking and in that lack is dissatisfaction that rips you out of the present moment. But the only reason that you're doing that is presumably so that when you get there, you're like, ah, now I can be in a present moment. But each goal that you hit just pushes another goal, you say, oh, well, like, yeah, I mean, I've done the 21st episode. So like, now it's, it's got to be 50, right? Like 50th and X goal, our hundreds of next goal, or it's a million, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like, there's always just another thing. I think it's really important to celebrate the wins, like to go out and like, if you do it, hit a particular milestone, just go out and celebrate it.

And then, yeah, come back and then set a new goal. I think the most difficult thing I've had now, particularly when I go through phases where I'm super motivated and I wanna grow, it's like the friendship aspect and the relationship aspect takes a hit. Like if you're trying to go full-seam ahead with your business and all these opportunities

you have in front of you, I've noticed when I've been in a relationship, any spare time I have, I have to devote that to my partner, which then means I have to fuck my friends off. Whereas if, let's say for example, I was single, then that gives me an opportunity to spend more time with my friends. Like to try and juggle everything is really difficult. I think Ryan Holidays got a scene, business, family, pick two. You can be a part of the scene, you can be successful in business, you can be great part of your family, but it's really, really, really rough to do all three. Who do I say that seems to have got it all? I don't know much about Joe's family life,

although it seems to have got that pretty dialed. To remember. Yeah. Yeah. He seems to have certainly got two of them sorted. Imagine, oh, we're in a situation now, we don't even have kids, and we're already completely mental. Mental, mental, mental, mental.

But yeah, I know what you mean. Oliver Berkman has this other idea about choosing advance what you're going to suck at. Which is pretty cool. So for a period of time, you're going to work on your business and you're going to grow your net worth or you're going to try and double the revenue of your business. So you're going to try and get a raise or get a promotion or do whatever. That period of life, just as important as what you're going to do is what you prepared to sacrifice for it. Because if you need to stay late in the office three nights a week for the next six months

so that your boss sees the work that you're doing or so that you get more sales in or so that you do whatever it is that you need to do, your training is probably going to take a hit. And when you start to see your condition or your fitness depreciate over time, if you're a type A go getter, you can feel uncomfortable and say, oh, well, that shouldn't be happening. And then you take your eye off the ball of the thing that was supposed to be your thing for the next six months, and then go, I'll only stay late in the office one night a week and I'll get I'll fit training, I'll slot training in two more nights. So you go, well, that wasn't the plan.

The plan was put everything into this one thing, level myself up and then play catch-up with everything else to bring myself back up to baseline. So yeah, choose an advance what you want to suck at is like a really, really good tactic because it helps you when other things start to slip. It stops it feeling like an error or a curse of some kind. And actually is like, oh, this is part of the plan. This was actually part of the plan. Part of the plan was, I wouldn't get to see my friends

as much, or my sleep would suffer, or my fitness would suffer, or my business would suffer, because we've just had a kid or whatever. I think that's important. And that thing that sucks at the moment, it's not going to suck later on precisely, but you can easily switch out the suck. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I think like I'm especially right now for the next couple of years, next five years, I want to go all in on just, okay, let's try and build a solid business, businesses, whatever it might be, make myself extremely financially comfortable so that later on, you know, when I get to my late 30s, 40s, when

it's time to really raise a family, I'm in a very comfortable situation where I can do that, and then devote more of my time to raising my kids and being there for my partner. That's the plan that I think I've got as well, that one of my friends, David Paral told me, most of my twenties was spent making myself into the dad that my future kids deserve. And I really liked that idea that you're putting a lot of work in now, which is gratifying in the moment. It would be like way, way too full of myself to be like, and all of this is for the sacrifice for my future kids like no it's not like I get a take lots of pleasure from the things that I do.

Matt does fitness does a great job of raising his kids. Does he? He's a very good role model for being a father. Chad to dad pipeline. Yeah he's just he's in a position way he doesn't have to go to work. He's even built like a home gym at home so we can just spend more time with his family. And like you can see how well he's raised his two boys. Whenever you're around them, they're just the happiest, most positive, even comfortable in front of the camera. They're already really

skilled at those of the different things, because Matt has been there all the time to teach them, educate them and push them. But you've got to have that. It's interesting what you say. I think I always, but the finance thing, I think I always kind of steered clear of commenting on finances, largely because I came from such a fucking working class background that money was just never a consideration and it wasn't really that much of a discussion always. So I kind of steered clear of talking about it but you know,

Tate mentioned it to that until you're financially liberated, you're kind of at the mercy of a lot of things and financially liberated doesn't mean like compound in Romania. It just means more money than you need to be able to live and not having to compensate by working and insane number of hours that ruins the rest of your life outside of it. You have so much more freedom. Yeah. It is, I mean, it's funny now, as you, as obviously the podcast has grown, you have more staff to take care of. You've got salaries to pay for.

Now, you've got studios to pay for. It's not that you need to earn more money so you can live a better life. It's no, I need to also earn more money so I can take the quality of my production to the next level and ensure that I can keep giving you guys the best. So I can fly to the other side of the planet to go and speak to this guy. Yeah, yeah, it's an interesting one, man. I don't know. It's been very interesting, quite a disquieting

year in some ways, like so satisfying, but also just rapid changes in status. This is one of the things about, like, kid like Sam, who, even more than either of us in terms of the rapidity of his change of status, people say that they want, you know, fame and accolade and wealth, but just having it thrown at you is fucking terrifying. Yeah, I had this idea that I learned from Jimmy Carr. Tregectory is way more important than position. If you're number two in the world, but last year you were number one, that is way worse

than sitting at number 150, but being on a huge upward slope from number 312 months ago. There's a few reasons for this. Reconcy bias, if your value is increasing now, that means that you have to be popular at the moment. By looking at recent trajectory, you're selecting for only the people who are trendy right now, which really is all that we can remember. We can also romanticize where someone will be in future if they're currently hot shit, how high might they go?

Who knows? Maybe to the top, maybe even beyond the top. Humans struggle to realize that everything is temporary, including growth and decline. Instead, it's easy to label people as heroes and losers based on what we know of them right now, so we don't have to predict a messy future. There's an old saying, there's three types of people on the ladder, one at the bottom, one at the middle, and one at the top, which one is the best to be, the one that's still climbing.

This doesn't just work for status, but possessions, achievements, wealth, sex, and everything else. It's not just how we see other people, it's also how we see ourselves. We know when we're moving up or down, when life is getting better or worse. Andrew Tate said, having things isn't fun. Getting things is fun. Another way to look at this is

any accomplishment is just a new, higher bar for you to get over in future. I see this on my own work. Let's say that we do a new episode that hits a million plays in a day. Amazing. That's very exciting in a new record. Wow. Also, that means that every video in future is now going to feel unimpressive, unless it does 1.1 million views or higher in 24 hours. In this way, rapid increases in status are more a curse than a blessing. So here's a theory which I co-signed with Dan Bilzerian a few weekends ago so you know it's legit. Even though we might want

our goals and accomplishments to arrive immediately, maybe a strata, a smarter strategy is to stretch out the achievements of our dreams. We shouldn't wish for overnight success as we would then need to be able to beat it pretty soon lest we feel like we're declining. Instead, slow, consistent progress is a more reliable way to maintain satisfaction. Purposefully aiming for slow success strategy may actually ensure you always feel like you're going in the right direction. 100%. It's all slight, when you, if you were to win the lottery, like if you were to be given

100,000 versus actually working your ass off over time, your salary or however much money you're earning gradually increases and then you get to that point where, okay, now I've got 100 mil, which one is more satisfying? It's a curse. I think you would look back on it as almost certainly the best and worst day of your life at the same time. You got gifted an unbelievable amount of money or an unbelievable amount of state or so whatever. How are you ever going to have a better day than that day?

I always thought that was, oh, it's going to be so cool if I'd bond the lottery. But it would literally fuck me up in the worst way. I would hate that. Yeah, it's weird, man. It's weird the way that we play with status. And what's the energy that you're trying to prioritize in your life at the moment? Like what is it? What sort of people do you want to round you? What sort of vibe are you trying to prioritize? I think people who are going to help inspire me. I think that's what I struggle with sometimes on a day-to-day basis with being motivated, especially when you've got to the point where you've got everything you really need. I mean, I have a nice car, I have a nice apartment, I've got great friends, like, what more

do I really need in my life? When I spend more time with people who are ahead of me financially, business-wise, whatever it might be, even just being around them gives me, I don't know, I guess I'm kind of a little bit competitive as well, like it makes me want to be that I want to get to that level to the fire of it. Yeah, so it makes me think, okay, there's levels to achieve with this. I'm certainly past the days where I was interested in like the parting and doing that kind of thing. I think when we last spoke, it was already getting to that point.

But even now, I compare what my desires were at the start of this year, compared to what my desires are now, and they've definitely changed for the better. What do you think is caused that to happen? I think just come into the realization of what is like really important, um, knowing that a lot of things which I've wanted to do I've done. And I think I'd put myself in a few situations this summer where I had been at like parties, obviously I went to a lot of B through a couple of times, doing the usual debauchery and then, um, just thinking, fuck, I don't, well, this is,

I don't like doing this anymore. I really don't like, I don't get as much enjoyment from it, but I hate the way it makes me feel. I think with what I'm doing now, you know, especially with what we do, doing the podcast, being on YouTube, I have to be on it, like all the time. And I actually really enjoyed this elevated state,

which I'm at, Like there is no alcohol, there's nothing which is slowing me down. So if you do go out and you drink or you do anything negative for your health or your mindset, just waking up from feeling groggy and shit is like, yeah, it's horrible. I want to wake up every day feeling as good as I can post. I feel. And you know, when you have a really good sleep and you wake up every day feeling as good as I can post. I feel. And you know, when you have a really good sleep and you wake up, you're like, oh my God, that was a good sleep. This is what it feels like.

You've taken a friggin' limitless pill. I want that every day. Yeah, that's, I know M.N. Gads is a big fan of monk mode, but it's one of the most dicting parts of monk mode that nothing ever knocks you off that routine. Do you're permanently in this like, hematically sealed box, right? Nothing is coming in, nothing is nudging it, nothing is breaking it, just perfect routine at all times. And all you're optimized for is that, and it can be very, very addicting. It's even one thing which I love to do. I used to travel loads, but now I'm actually, I don't want to travel because I know it's going to knock me off this very good routine, which I have going on. That's something that's cool that I kind of wish I could gift more people.

If I could gift them a pursuit that they're needing maximum sort of cognitive horsepower and they can do it sufficiently frequently that they notice the fluctuations between themselves the last couple of days my sleep's just been so wrecked since I've been here. I don't know how you do it with your mind traveling you do. Yeah, it's not been easy. Most of the travel when it's within inside the US it's fine, but the one that we did here was was pretty brutal. And last night we were at dinner and I was trying to think of this word, I was trying to think of this word, I was trying to think of this word I was trying to think of this word and it wasn't there. I just know that it's because I'm undislapped. Yeah.

And but being able to play with that tolerance, I guess I can athlete, right? You know the speed that you're usually able to run out or cut out or you know jump out or lift or whatever and you go This isn't there today. Why is that not there? And then you start to investigate a little bit But it's so cool. And knowing the contributing factors to that and then having a pursuit that allows to act as a barometer for it is brilliant. Because you go, okay, well, this is my reinforcement mechanism for me focusing on making myself better. Because I can feel what I make myself better, and I can feel what I make myself worse. It's way easier to make myself even a tiny bit worse than it is to make myself even

less of a bit better. So yeah, I think focusing on those, focusing on like things that are going to help you be better long-term is what locks you off your good routine apart from travel. Sleep is the main one. It's the biggest determinant of how I perform on the podcast. If I haven't slept well, if I haven't trained consistently, have you ever needed to cancel? Because you're there. Never, never, never, never.

Even at my worst, I'm still pretty good. So I'm fine to take over and hold it together, but I'll know because I'll know what I could have said. He has that feeling of regret afterwards. You're like, a little bit. It's usually during, I don't have that much regret once we finish something like, I can't go back and redo it. But while it's happening, I find myself chastising myself about, Lex has spoken about this, you'll say a word imprecisely or you'll say a sentence that could have been nicer, could

have been more lean. And as you're saying it, you'll think that was fucking shit. Like I must do better. But yeah, sleep is a big one. Sugar is a huge one for me. If I've had, I don't know why I would do this. I wouldn't do this. But if I went and had a massive almond quasson and a hot chocolate or something before I went to go and record, you know, like, like, inflamed and sluggish and stuff, awful. But what I found I operate really well on is meat and fat and a little bit of fruit on the morning. And I can pretty much eat as much of that as I want.

And I don't ever feel a crash off the other side of it. So most mornings it's like, because the fast dids could be a bit risky. It is because you risk falling off a cliff and you don't have any energy. So I've found for me, turn of scramble, like four scramble eggs, some bacon, you know, like, maybe some sourdough toast, usually not, and then nice bowl of fruit,

or something mixed berries or something like that. And that, if I have that at 9 a.m., that can carry me through til 3 p.m., easily, just off the back of that, and then a little bit of caffeine and some other stuff will take me over. But yeah, man, sleep, sugar, both of those are absolutely ruined in the way that your mind goes. What's going on next?

What can people expect from you over the next couple of... Oh, you've got mutatia, which you've got on. Oh, yeah. Are you our own one? No, no, because you... The only ones that you were able to give me was... There was one sticky. You were infested with your musk.

Yeah, new products coming out with the clothing side of things. It's an interesting journey with that. Obviously, you will be aware, like, releasing a physical product. I'm going to keep trying to scale that. I've got a course coming out mid December. Fitness. It's going to be more so with social media, how to build, so build predominantly a YouTube platform,

but how to monetize it. So how to get to the point where within six months you can make 10,000 pound a month of it. That is the, it's going to, that's the blueprint. And yeah, just keep cracking on with the podcast. I feel as though it's doing well. I'm only doing one a week and I feel like, hey, imagine what you could achieve if you did two a week. It would just grow twice as fast.

Yeah. Well, I mean, and then I have my main channel, which is while you're trying to kind of water that as well. Yes. I'm trying to figure out what is the optimal way to do everything so that everything grows together. Gross together. I think you should do a newsletter.

I think I told you this last time. Yeah. But I think, you know, what you have felt as an enjoyment from doing the podcast and having these conversations, doing the same thing for writing, even if you're not a writer, which I wasn't before I started, and now 200, 1000 word blog posts in, like 200,000 words of whatever form. Which you write yourself. Yeah, every single week.

And it's one of the most fun things that I do over a weekend, I'll think, what the fuck did I learn this week? There's 500 words, and then who's coming up? And then give me some, I'm always looking out for facts. I'm always looking at it. Same reason why I do in a gratitude journal is good, because you know that at the end of the day, you need to find something to be fucking grateful about. So during the day, you're always scouring for things to

do it. But I highly, highly recommend and use that. Apart from the fact that it's amazing as a marketing tool, it's genuinely enjoyable. And I really, really think that it brings value to people in a way that even YouTube and podcasting can't so lean and it really acts almost like a public journal for you. Obviously, you get to choose the level of openness of vulnerability, transparency about your own life. But yeah, I'd subscribe the fuck out of that. So dude, I'm excited. I'm excited to see what we get up to over the next year. When's the book coming out? Oh God. It should be started 2025 if everything goes well, but it's one of the year and a bit.

So six months to write, six months to publish is interesting, the way that it works. But it's the publishing thing is just such a big, slow behemoth to spin up. But yeah, should hopefully be done by then. That being said, I haven't really thought beyond this tour. I get myself back to Austin on the 11th of December, and that's like, ugh, yeah. Get up to that point, and then limp to the UK for Christmas, and then just sleep at Mum and Dads for a while.

I'm looking forward to that. There'll be at least a week period where I kind of have... Just trying to forget about everything, and just being the present, especially with family. Yeah. Yeah. Dude, I appreciate you. Thank the present, especially with family. Yeah, yeah. Dude, I appreciate you. Thank you for coming on again. Thank you, Bra. Pleasure is always. you