Modern Wisdom - #810 - Brett Cooper - The Quiet Revolution Against Modern Feminism

Episode Date: July 15, 2024

Brett Cooper is a political commentator, an actor and a YouTuber. It's revolutionary to say that you want to get married young and build a family in the modern world. But why? Is the choice between being co-opted by capitalism or conned by the patriarchy? Surely there must be a better solution for men and women. Expect to learn how Brett feels about getting married at 23, why the modern dating landscape is such a mess, how both men and women can find & build a lasting relationship, why Brett hates pickleball, how she felt about Candace Owens' Daily Wire drama, Gen Z's opinion on motherhood, what it's like working in Hollywood as a young girl and much more… Sponsors: See discounts for all the products I use and recommend: https://chriswillx.com/deals Get a Free Sample Pack of all LMNT Flavours with your first box at https://drinklmnt.com/modernwisdom (discount automatically applied) Get a 20% discount on Nomatic’s amazing luggage at https://nomatic.com/modernwisdom (use code MW20) Get up to 20% discount on the best supplements from Momentous at https://livemomentous.com/modernwisdom (discount automatically applied) Get a 20% discount on your first order from Maui Nui Venison by going to https://mauinuivenison.com/modernwisdom (use code MODERNWISDOM) Extra Stuff: Get my free reading list of 100 books to read before you die: https://chriswillx.com/books Try my productivity energy drink Neutonic: https://neutonic.com/modernwisdom Episodes You Might Enjoy: #577 - David Goggins - This Is How To Master Your Life: https://tinyurl.com/43hv6y59 #712 - Dr Jordan Peterson - How To Destroy Your Negative Beliefs: https://tinyurl.com/2rtz7avf #700 - Dr Andrew Huberman - The Secret Tools To Hack Your Brain: https://tinyurl.com/3ccn5vkp - Get In Touch: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chriswillx Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/chriswillx YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/modernwisdompodcast Email: https://chriswillx.com/contact - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello everybody, welcome back to the show. My guest today is Brett Cooper. She's a political commentator, an actor and a YouTuber. It is revolutionary to say that you want to get married young and build a family in the modern world. But why? Is the choice between being co-opted by capitalism or conned by the patriarchy? Surely there must be a better solution for men and women. Expect to learn how Brett feels about getting married at 23, why the modern dating landscape is such a mess, how both men and women can find

and build a lasting relationship, why Brett hates Pickleball, how she felt about Candice Owens' daily wire drama, Gen Z's opinion on motherhood, what it's like working in Hollywood as a young girl, and much more. If you are new here or if you're a long time listener, don't forget that you might be listening,

but not subscribed and that will make you trez sad because we have some of the biggest guests ever coming on over the next couple of weeks and you don't wanna miss them. So navigate to Spotify and press the follow button in the middle of the page or go to Apple podcasts and the plus in the top right-hand corner. It really does help to support the show. It makes me very happy indeed.

And it ensures that you will not miss these huge episodes when they go up. So go and do it please. I thank you. But now, ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Brett Cooper. You got married? I did. How's that been? It's the best thing I've ever done. Seriously. We got married on March 30th, this year so very recently and best day of my life,

best decision. Obviously, it's like a baby marriage. It's very new. But it's been amazing. I'm grateful for him. I'm grateful for the institution of marriage. It's just, yeah, it's been wonderful. Getting married at 22 is a pretty radical thing to do for someone with a career. Yes, it is. It's interesting. I have always known I wanted to be married. I've always known that I wanted to be a mother.

You know, I had a career in Hollywood. I was a child actor for 10 plus years. And I remember I had a conversation with my best friend at the time. We were walking through Burbank. I think I was like 15 years old and we were talking about our dreams and hopes and she had just, you know, she was pinned for a new series and she was like, this is all I've ever wanted. We were talking about all of that. And I brought up a concern that I had had basically since I started in this industry

and started working with adults, because that's one of the cool things and also something that gets very dicey in Hollywood is that you're working with adults constantly. For me, in my experience, it ended up working out very well because I was exposed to people who were much more successful than I was. We're further along in their careers. I got to see how they were operating, how they balanced their career and family and marriage, and I did not like what I saw. And so, like, in the back of my mind, I was like, I know that I want to be the type of mother that my mom is. Where she walked away from her career and she dedicated every fiber of her being to being a mother.

That was her career. It was like, you know, very, very intentional, I'm going to raise the best human beings possible. I wanted to be that engaged. And I saw the mothers that I worked with on shows, the fathers. I saw the 35-year-old series regulars on Netflix who were still living in condos with four other roommates,

who couldn't afford to buy a house or support a family in Los Angeles. So in my teen years, I was like, this is not... This isn't compatible. This isn't what I want. And I had been like wrestling with that. And so in this conversation with my friend, I said, you know, that isn't really, at the end of the day, what I want. What I want is to be a wife and a mother.

And I never like actually expressed that to her, even though she was one of my best friends. And she turned and whipped her head around and was like, you are willing to give up your career for that, I didn't even say that. I had not insinuated it. I was just saying, you know, at the end of the day, that's what I want.

She was like, you're willing to walk away from everything and sacrifice it will never be as successful because that's what you want. She was like, I'm not willing to do that. And so it's kind of like the people who wanted to be married and wanted to be mothers didn't want it enough. And that those choices, those personal choices weren't valid.

And so that had always been what I had heard and I was undeterred obviously. And so yes, it is pretty radical, but even in this industry of like being in media, being more on the right, I still heard it. Still heard it from conservatives of like, you're on the up and up. Are you sure you want to do that? From people that are pro-family and pro-marriage.

I was like, oh, this really is radical. It's crazy the reality distorting, warping sense of success. That success is so rare and it's so celebrated that anybody that gets even the tightest little bit of it, even people who are ostensibly pro-family would say, yeah, yeah, yeah, but like don't let go of the more important thing, which is the success and the status. Yeah.

It was a wake-up call for sure. But again, I knew that that is what I wanted. I knew that I had found the person that I wanted to spend the rest of my life with. My parents did not have a good marriage. So this was, it wasn't something that I grew up idolizing or wanting. That wasn't an example that, you know,

I didn't want to be married because of my parents, because I had seen how wonderful it was. Almost in spite of it. Yes. Because I knew that it was. Almost in spite of it. Yes. Because I knew that it was the foundation of your life and it could make or break your life.

Because I saw friends with incredible, incredible parents who were deeply in love and the way that their children turned out and the way that their home operated. The way that each of those individual successes, the husband and the wife were propelled because of how good their marriage was

and how that could work. And then I saw my parents on the other end and they love them both, but they picked poorly. They're not compatible. They're much better as friends. They are still friends today. I think they're much better friends now and they get along much better.

But I do believe that they held each other back in what they wanted to accomplish because they had very different ideas of where they wanted to take our family in what they wanted to accomplish because they had very different ideas of Where they wanted to take our family what they wanted to do career wise just their base values I mean even when they voted they would you know, axe each other out every single time Uh, and that says a lot and so I saw my mother struggle. I saw my father struggle I saw them butt heads And know that that held both of them back And so that was so important to me from the

get go of like, number one, it has to be the right person, but I think it was more important for me to get married young. I actually think it was a good thing for me to get married at this point in my career because I am, it has been like a rocket ship and it's been very destabilizing at points. And that's been my rock, the relationship, him, and now this marriage. It's like, that's what I getabilizing at points. And that's been my rock.

The relationship, him, and now this marriage, it's like, that's what I get to come home to. That's the one thing that matters, all of this. It's awesome, it's cool. I love it. I love that I get to make a difference. I love that I get to talk to people every day. But at the end of the day, I come home to him

and that's what grounds me. So that I can go do everything else. Are you gonna be prepared to let go of this then, when the time comes? Yeah. How's that going to feel? It's going to be hard, but I'm also so excited about it. Like I'm already, like those have been conversations that I've been having since the beginning of like, I want this brand to grow with me.

I want my show and my content to grow with me. So that when that time comes, when I'm ready to have children, when I'm taking a step back, you know, I want to homeschool my kids. When I'm dedicating that time to that, I need, I want to be able to take my audience in this community along with me. The maternity section from the comments section. There you go, exactly. And so I want it to be something that we're building towards, not that it's like a goodbye, like this is the end.

But yeah, I think it'll be hard because, you know, I'm used to this now. But again, it's, I've never wanted anything more. I'm so excited about it. How would you categorize the state of dating advice for young people at the moment? Terrible. It's awful. Uh, it's a, uh, it's a precious landscape. It is just barren. Um, one thing that I've been talking a lot about on the show, and I would actually love to hear your thoughts on this, cause you've talked about dating here and there. I just don't think my generation knows how. Like I was never taught how to date.

My first dating experiences were on dating apps, which is wild. And so I hear about young men not wanting to approach women. And obviously there's the Me Too movement. There's a lot of concerns about rejection. Women are now saying, by and large, they want to be approached. But obviously, so many women are just like, oh, that's creepy, whatever. It's very confusing.

There are nuances in dating and approaching women and starting relationships that you kind of have to just learn. And my generation, I don't think we've ever had to do that. I mean, again, like I went to UCLA, was 18, but I went in as a junior and I joined a sorority because I wanted to have like the all American traditional experience,

wanted to do something traditional for once in my life. And right after I rushed the sorority and got in, I was sitting in a room with my big and she was like- Your what? My big, do you know what that is? No. Okay, so in Greek life, you have like bigs and was like. Your what? My big, do you know what that is? No. Okay, so in Greek life you have like bigs and littles. So I was somebody's little.

So when I joined the sorority, there was somebody who had already joined a year prior. Right. And they like usher you in or your mentor, your friend. Yeah, bigs and littles. I was with my big. We're on the same page. Yes.

And fraternities had that as well. Anyway, I was sitting with her in her room and they were shocked that I had never been on Tinder, that I had never dated before. They were shocked that I was a virgin. I mean, it was just like, like, this is insane. How could you?

And I mean, and I found out later on, I mean, these girls had had multiple abortions and were very, very sexually and relationship wise ahead of me. And I had not thought anything of it up until this point because I hadn't been around it and I just kind of stayed in my own bubble. They're like we've got to get on Tinder. You got to yeah you got to do it and there's no hazing allowed at UCLA there's especially not in sororities but they kind of made a joke and they're

like this is you're gonna be your hazing you need to get on dating apps and this is how you're gonna date and it was Um, the way that I dated in college, like my high school or not high school, my college boyfriend met on hinge. Like that was how I dated. That's how everyone around me dated. And so when I hear, you know, people online, when I'm reading in the comment section, like, I don't know how to approach somebody. I'm so nervous, girls not knowing how to respond.

It's because we've completely lost that. It's not their fault. It's because they've completely lost that. It's not their fault. It's because they've just gone online. You're sliding into DMs, you're swiping right and left and that's an addictive game in and of itself. And so then now we're seeing, you know, droves of people leaving dating apps, especially with everything that like Bumble did.

Bumble had a huge loss when they did their ridiculous rebrand, most idiotic thing they've ever done. People wanting to be off the apps, but not knowing how to date outside of them. So it really is, it's abysmal for a lot of reasons, but especially that is what I've been thinking about recently. Yeah. I, I had this idea of mutually assured deception, which I think is what a lot of people have, they're so scared of opening up because one of the worst things that

you can be is gullible and naive in dating. There's something kind of cool about being aloof and a bit sardonic and a bit standoffish. I'm too good for this. There's no way that you could hurt me. Yeah, it's sort of easy come easy go. But I think that that is just a suboptimal solution to a suboptimal problem.

That is someone trying to reverse engineer the dating environment into their preferences as opposed to doing it the other way around. So yeah, you have two people, neither of whom are prepared to open up fully in case they get hurt, both of whom are terrified of being hurt and both of whom just never show themselves

to the other person. So yeah, I think that's a big concern. And then when it comes to the approaching thing and the being in real life, it's always been that way. Like the reason that the guy that founded CBT founded CBT was to overcome his approach anxiety for women. That was originally what it was designed for. So this has happened for as long as time has been around.

The difference now, I think, is that any small psychological challenge becomes pathologized and becomes laid at the feet of the modern world. So this is because of Tinder. This is because of online dating. It's like, what if this was just endemic to being a guy that approaching a woman is going to be scary and always going to be scary. And maybe the difference now is that you're just a bit less socially adept. You haven't spent that much more time out and about.

You don't have robust social networks. You don't really know as many people, that kind of a thing. And what it feels like from the inside is, oh my God, if only it was 50 years ago, this would have been super easy, which actually takes a lot of agency away from you, which would have been, it was gonna be hard then in 1960. And it's hard. It was always gonna be hard.

Precisely. And you can overcome it. The conditions are different. Correct. The conditions are different. And you have to acknowledge that, but that should not be the reason why you turn inward and just say, nevermind I'm giving it up because there is no hope. There were always going to be problems.

There was always going to be hurdles that you had to overcome with dating. Dating is not easy. It's not fun. Nobody likes opening up and being very vulnerable and you're like stab me in the heart if you don't like me. Nobody likes that. But if you acknowledge that and understand

that the risk could come with just an incredible reward and an incredible payoff, but you do have to take responsibility. And you do have to take those steps. I also think for women, especially women by and large are having, you know, they're setting these insane standards and very, very, very superficial standards. I mean, you see it on social media. There was that whole trend of like, you know, I want a guy in finance who's six, five, blue eyes. Did you see that? She like wrote this whole song about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And it's a joke, but it's not.

Because they have this image in their mind of what kind of guy they want. And I think they see a lot of relationships on social media. They see men on social media. You know, this is going to be the guy that's available to me. When you look at those numbers of, you know, the percentage for both men and women of men who are whatever height they want, make, you know, six figures plus are single, are not overweight

are between this age bracket. It's a rounding error. Yeah. Yeah. And the same goes for women of like, you know, if you want a woman who is not on the left, is not on any kind of anti-depress-depressants who's, you know, a certain way that one is insane. I love the fact that the equivalent for women of a guy being six foot on six

figures with a six pack is not an anti-depressants and not on the left. Yes, not obese. I mean, and again, tiny. And obviously I'm not saying have no standards, the bar is, you know, on the floor, but you also have to meet people where they are and you also have to know what you're bringing to the table and be aware of what you will be able to get basically. What is the mutual aid? What am I trying to say here?

I need to figure out the right way to phrase this. It's like who is your equal partner in the dating marketplace? Do you think that there's a case for settling in that case? I don't think of it as settling. I think of it as being, again, aware of what your options are and what you're bringing to the table. Like I talk to women all the time and you know, I want this, I want this, I want this. What are you bringing? Like are you the type of woman that these men are going to go for? Are you the high value woman? I kind of hate those terms, but you know, the high value woman that these men are going to go for? Are you the high value woman?

I kind of hate those terms, but the high value woman, the high value man, if you aren't going to the gym, if you aren't taking care of yourself, if you don't like children, if you only care about your career and you don't wanna, if you hate the patron, I don't wanna support a man, I don't wanna care about a man, and you want a provider man who is fit in know, fit in shape, cares about his health,

that's not gonna match up, he's not gonna go for you. And so then if you're not seeing what you want in the dating landscape, that I'd say like put it on yourself then, what can you do to level yourself up? If you don't like the options that are available to you, what can you do to put yourself in a situation where you're gonna meet those types of people

and be on their level? Number one, that just makes you a better human being because you're bettering yourself. But then again, it's putting the agency back on themselves of like you have the opportunity to make the change. And that's a very radical message, I think to give to women. It's kind of radical to give to men because at the moment,

there's a lot of sort of despondency and cynicism and melancholy on both sides, but especially for women, there's an insight that I learned a couple of years ago that personal development for men and personal development for women are completely inverted. So men are told that the world is immutable and you are mutable. So you have to wrap yourself up and change yourself

in order to fit around the world. And women are told that the world is mutable and you are immutable. You are perfect as you are. And it's the world's problem that you need to change. And to me, that's massively patronizing. But the other reason is that it doesn't actually allow, it doesn't empower women to change because they think if there's any problem out there in the world, it's because of the world and not because of me.

So if you're today, then say the reason that you are not getting the kind of guy that you want is maybe your fault. Maybe there's something you could do to get yourself up to that. No, no, no, you should love reason that you are not getting the kind of guy that you want is maybe your fault. Maybe there's something you could do to get yourself up to that. No, no, no. You should love yourself as you are queen. You're already a 10. He doesn't deserve you. Drives me up a wall. Well, the main problem with it is that there is a small cohort of women for whom growth mindset and improving themselves has been drilled into them. And they're just going to run away and pick up all of the good guys because there's such

a small number of them out there. And the rest of them have been dazzled by this shitty culture. And that's one of the reasons why I, you know, didn't want to put dating on hold just because of my career. And it's interesting. So my mom and I talked a lot about this. She always said, you know, don't date until you're 30. She was, you know, she had you at like 38, right?

Yes. Yeah. And was, you know. She had you at like 38, right? Yes, yes, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. At 42, I think. And that was kind of a joke, but not a joke. And what she meant by that was know yourself before you get married. She did not mean that in that, you know, you need to have the perfect career,

the perfect house, the perfect job, which I think is such a lie, because it's much more fulfilling to build that and get to that point with your significant other. But that was kind of the running joke in our family. And then when I graduated college, moved to Nashville, we started seeing the world change, just gender dynamics.

I think she, her eyes really woke up or not woke up. Her eyes really opened to all of that and seeing that dating was not the same as when she was dating. The world, dating was not the same as when she was dating. The world stability was just not the same. And so when I, you know, left Idaho and moved to Nashville, she was like, you need to find your per se. She was like, because the world is not stable. God damn it. Yeah. And so she was saying, you know, this has to be a priority because the good ones are going to get picked up. They probably are being, and you know, it's great,

you know, focus on your career, but the women that are out there knowing that they're going to need a partner because the world is getting increasingly unstable because we don't know what's happening, you know, in politics, in, you know, whether there's going to be some apocalypse, she's very much a proper. Um, and then also just in terms of values, like those are the ones that are going to be stashed up from the get-go. And she was like, don't put that on hold.

She was like, I'm sorry that I told you don't date until you're 30, but that needs, your mindset needs to change about that. And I'm so glad that she did. Where did you meet your husband? Uh, through work. Wow. Who knew? Daily Wire.

Yeah. Always said I would never do it. He, yeah, we both were like, we'll never do this. Both of us were like never date at work. And it was something, I mean, I don't know. It's like, it sounds so woo-woo, but literally he walked in, I looked at him and I was like, that one. I don't know why. Didn't know anything about him. Something about the way that he carried himself. He's super confident in a very open and engaging way, not a cocky way.

I had always gone for very arrogant and cocky guys in the past because I felt like that is what I needed because I thought that other men were gonna be and boys at that time in college were gonna be intimidated by me and my success, my intelligence, and the fact that I graduated college at 19 years old. Like that was just, I was like, that's what I needed. And then I met him and it was so solid. There was no insecurities.

He was so comfortable in his own skin, was not intimidated whatsoever. So caring, so open. Just literally just the way that he carried himself. And then got to know him and realized that, we grew up five miles apart. He went to high school with my brothers. His photo had been in my brother's four-year books

we have in my mom's office for the last 15 years. And I had no idea when I met him or like laid eyes on him. And so I've said this before, but falling in love with him and marrying him has felt so much like going home. Because it's like I had that tie to our hometown. It was a town that a lot of pretty dysfunctional things happened in my family when my brothers passed away. And that's where we were living when that happened. And so

I've kind of had a complicated relationship. It's Chattanooga here in Tennessee. But all the pieces just kind of came together and it was so easy. I mean, I think I knew within like two weeks of going out with him, I was like, that's just who I'm going to marry. This is it. We'll get back to talking to Brett in one minute, but first I need to tell you about element. Stop having coffee first thing in the morning. Your adenosine system that caffeine acts on

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Work on yourself for sure. Be constantly improving, both in terms of your career, your intelligence and the way that you think about the world, your, the physical shape that you're in. That says so much to women. And I know that a lot of women kind of look at that in a superficial way, but I look at that as like, you are truly prepared to protect.

You're willing to go to bat for me, for our future children. You care about my health more than I care about my health. That was a huge thing that I had to get over. He was like, you are gonna to go to the gym. You are going to take these supplements. A leader, being able to be assertive and take initiative is huge. I also think, and this is the complicated one that I'm talking about on the show, is understanding the nuances in dating. Women are very confusing, which is, it sucks, but we are. And there's like very little like emotional

things that we do. But being able to understand if a woman is actually interested and knowing how to carry on a conversation before you even ask her out, that's key to just getting in the door of being able to create a connection over something that's not dating and over your interest in her, whether it's, you know, physical, or you just

think she's an interesting person, just seeing if that connection is even there and kind of playing that dating game, that back and forth, that sets you up for success in more ways than one. That is, I feel like has a much higher batting average than just going up and saying, can I have your number and hoping that it works out? But laying that groundwork just so that you know if she's actually interested.

I think that also makes the fear of rejection a little easier because you actually will know, hopefully, if she's interested in what the response is. We've got like pre-selection somehow. Exactly. Well, I think a lot of the time about the advantage of being around women and one of the problems of remote work being that

people are interacting less. So low stakes interaction with women is a really great way for guys to overcome their approach anxiety because if you're not looking for any outcome, what can you lose that? It's the barista. She is literally paid to give you your coffee. So if you can say one extra sentence, it sounds so stupid. It's the same problem as if you need to go to the gym, just do 10 pushups a day. Because it starts so small that people think, well, what's the fucking point?

Like, look, I'm not, I'm not Andrew Tate with a Bugatti. Like what's the, what's the point in me trying to do this? So, but that is literally the only way that you can get that. Yes. And you have to take that step. You have to show up at a location in person where there will be women, whether it is your, you know, whether it is a group workout class. Pickleball.

There you go. I have a problem with pickleball though. What, come on, okay, here we go, first disagreement. I did an episode about this. I got reamed in the comments. Yeah, well, rightly so. Yeah, well, the problem that I had and that it sparked this episode

is I went to a farmers market in Nashville. There was a tennis court next door to the farmers market. It was all men playing pickleball. I'm sorry, it was the gayest thing I've ever seen. And not in, it was because it was all, it was so, oh my gosh, I was like, play tennis. Anyway, but I also think that was just the demographic in that part of Nashville. And I looked at that and I was like, you go like to a boxing gym, something.

Anyway, short denim shorts, cutoffs. The shortest shorts imaginable. Fantastic. Like they went to Lululemon and got the five inch and then had him tailor cut. This is liberating for men. This is what we want to do. That's the way you want it. This is what we want to do.

Yeah. That's great. You know those things like, I wonder if he's thinking about me. Yes. And then it cuts to what the guy's actually doing. And it's him high fiving with his homies with his top off in three and shorts. This is what guys want to do. Yeah. Like, you know that, you know those things like, I wonder if he's thinking about me. Yes. And then it cuts to what the guy's actually doing and it's him high-fiving with his homies with his top off in three and shorts. This is what guys want to do. Stop fucking oppressing us.

Oh, I'm so sorry. The patriarchy is coming back around through pickleball. I'm so glad. Thank you. I'll shut down the matriarchy. Well, no, and I learned my lesson from that. I still don't, I don't really enjoy pickleball. I played tennis growing up. And so I thought also probably feeds into my feelings about it, but still going to some playing pickleball with people showing up to those leagues,

joining in Nashville at Centennial park. They always do soccer and softball and volleyball during the summer. You can just join these rec leagues. Go do that. Have you seen this ascendancy of like 5k runs, run clubs? Yes. Yeah. I think that's, I think run clubs are basically a, they're a dating organization masquerading as a fitness pursuit.

Yeah, I could see that. That's what it is because no one goes to the run club for the running bit. I've seen these things. People walk half of them. Yes. But everybody's got their brand new, saucony or new balance. The new hookers. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah. And tiny pair of shorts and they get to run along and sweaty and see if the other, oh, like he's that guy from last week again. Yeah. Again, and that's, okay, what you just said, that guy from last week, that is also key. Repeatedly going to the same place

with the same group of people. And again, laying that groundwork. Stalking. Yes, exactly. I need you to stalk, no. But the low stakes environment, where you are having to grow a relationship over say six weeks of like, you're going to this run club every single week.

You meet a girl, oh, you banter, whatever, you run along, talk to somebody else. The next week she's there, pick up the conversation. Just being able to- It's wild that this is revolutionary. I know. Again, but that goes back to my point of my generation just has not had to do that.

And it's all been so digital. And then mixed in with our social skills just have been totally warped by the digital age, and COVID didn't help at all. And I mean, the majority of my college experience was online. So when people talk about, oh, you learn to date in college, people who graduated around my year in 21, Nope. Learn to date online.

Yeah. While at college. Yes. In your zoom class, like, oh, this guy's kind of cute. Let me do like my like private zoom message. Do a breakout. Yeah. So like, oh yeah, the guy in my zoom, you know, breakout in my business class when

we're working on our accounting, whatever, like that's, those are the options. There's a current big push back against women having kids as well. Even me who doesn't use TikTok saw that girl with the list thing. She printed off 350 reasons about why not to have a child. What is the opinion on motherhood among Gen Z at the moment? It's interesting.

Do you see that study that said, that it's over half of women do believe that motherhood is just as or more important than a career? It's just from a couple of weeks ago. But they will not, these are not conservatives. These are just normal women. They don't want to brand themselves as conservatives. They want to get married. They believe the hookup culture is bad and they believe that motherhood is important.

And so I think deep down, because these are biological instincts, I do believe that women have those urges and want that. I think that it is the culture coming in very heavy-handedly with the most absurd reasons not to, like the list, which is just 365 examples of fear mongering. Can't wear cute heels anymore, got to miss brunch with the girls.

Yes, and it's like some of them, I'll read and be like, ooh, like, get that part of giving birth does not sound fun, but the end result is worth it, and I don't care because I want to have a child. But a huge portion of them are, oh, your clothes don't fit properly, and oh, I might not be able to go back to my career. You want to go back and sit in a cubicle

when you could have this like beautiful, amazing child that you've created with the love of your life and you're worried about going back and working for the man? Like I thought you hated the patriarchy. Does not make sense. But no, there is a lot of fear mongering. There are more women than people think

that are waking up. I was actually planning an episode for next week about this. There have been an influx of women just on my social media alone, speaking out about cultural issues, social issues, political issues, talking about voting for Trump. These are not political accounts.

These are random influencers, just girls on their, private, personal social medias, talking about the things that Biden is doing in regards to Title IX, the transgender issue, that they have been completely woken up, realizing, oh, I don't actually want this anymore, mix that in with the women that are in their 30s, they get made fun of constantly on X

for crying in their car with the fact that they can't meet a guy because they prioritize their career over dating. And then they just get ripped to shreds when people on the right, which I think is so problematic. Yeah, I mean, that's- They are struggling.

This kind of self-owns, as you said before, people on the right that's supposed to be pro-family saying, but you're going to give up your career. You just managed to find your success. This is one of the sort of real areas, I think, of failure, especially for the right, supposed to be the ones that are rational. We position ourselves up against these, you know,

super emotional fucking people on the left. You go, dude, you've just taken the piss out of a woman who is the realization that you've said that they're going to have. What do you want? Do you want her to create a fucking time machine and go back in time? That's evidently not going to happen.

And someone opens up to give the message as opposed to going, see this stupid broad, she shouldn't have listened to blah, blah, blah. You go, okay, is it a cautionary tale? Yes. But there's a human on the other go, okay. It's a cautionary tale. Yes. But there's a human on the other side of that. It's so dehumanizing. So this is why I'm so bored with most of politics and sort of culture war stuff,

because everybody sees everyone as a political football of some kind that they can either kick away from them or sort of grab and bring onto their team. Perfect example of this. Remember when Nicki Minaj went anti-vax for a couple of weeks and the right was like, Nicki, come on, I'm like, Nicki fucking Minaj, are we being serious? But oh, there's this brief sort of sliver

where their talking point coincides with my desire to push this particular narrative. Yeah, and you hold on and you're like, I'll ignore everything else. Super fucking lame. And it's, you know, and I'm somebody obviously that reacts to culture. I talk about the news, you know, that is something that I would talk about on the show. But it's like you walk a fine line of acknowledging that this is interesting.

You know, sure, that's cool. That's, you know, one thing that I agree with Nicki Minaj on, but you don't have to suddenly absolve her of every other value that she's ever had that I disagree with. And I think that's the real problem. Like you can say, oh, that's cool. I don't agree with the rest of the things that you're doing, but that's interesting. I wonder how she got to that point. That's what's interesting to me.

And then looking at the reaction and obviously, I mean, it's called the comment section, that's what I do, but seeing how the internet responds to it, that's also the interesting part. I don't need to adopt her. I don't need her to suddenly come over to my side. Um, so yeah, I completely agree with that. And I think that that response to women does not help us at all.

That response to women who are 31 single, desperately need help finding somebody. The response is- Laughing. Yeah, the response is not screw you, oh boohoo. The response is, no, there will still be somebody out there for you, I believe that. If you realign your priorities, if you do put yourself

out there, if you become open and you're willing to be vulnerable, I do believe in that wholeheartedly, but then you use that as a, again, the cautionary tale, like you said, of like young women, this is what could happen. This is what we warned. This is what feminism said you wouldn't care about. You won't care when you're 31 and you have no kids and you've frozen your eggs and you, you know, you're working for the man and you have some corporate career. It won't care when you're 31 and you have no kids and you've frozen your eggs and you're working for the man and you have some corporate career, it won't matter.

Obviously it does. That being said, I have this idea that normalizing the gift of IVF embryo freezing, or at least like egg freezing at 21 would be one of the best things that you could do. I think that instead of giving a girl a fancy trip to Tulum with her and her friends or a nice watch or whatever, I don't know what American families do,

but like 21 tends to be like a big, and getting your eggs frozen is not cheap, but imagine just that insurance policy, just in case something happens. I think that would be a good way to look at stuff. But yeah, is it your belief that we are seeing a kind of quiet revolution of young women beginning to see the importance of motherhood

and sort of long-term relationship? Is this a pushback against casual sex, against hookup culture? Is this tied in with the conservative movement or is this totally separate? Is it just siloed off on a dating? I think that you can smush them together if you want. And I think that there is a lot of overlap,

but I don't think that this is a lot of them and suddenly being like, you know, I'm conservative, I'm gonna vote for Trump, I'm ready to be a trad wife, give me my, you know, frolicking sundress. That's not what it is. It's women being intelligent and having self awareness and looking at the world around them and going,

this doesn't sit right. I don't know if that's going to translate into votes. I would love it to translate into votes, because I think that the world needs some literal, you know, political redirection. But I do think that it speaks volumes about our culture and the lies that women have been told. It's not just about their relationships

and dating and motherhood, but women are also having a really rude awakening about our health. I mean, birth control is such a huge topic right now. Our health, our OBGYNs who have gaslit so many women for years at this point about their health, about our hormones. I think that there's just a, in general,

women are looking around going, oh my gosh, what we've been told and fed for the last 20, 30 years, none of this makes sense. We need to take a step back and reevaluate. And I think we're seeing this in real time. And some of it, you know, it's even happening on the right. Cause a lot of women on the right are, you know, waking up to big pharma and you know, their health.

It's happening in every single political pocket, but it's just very, very cool. And I'm glad that it's happening. There was a TikTok I saw earlier on, an obese woman who diagnosed herself based on Grey's anatomy. I watched that earlier, yeah. Got angry with a doctor that she thought was safe Because the doctor suggested that the woman lose weight

The woman asked her to not talk about BMI because of its history as a tool of eugenics racism and colonialism and I'm indigenous Yes It's pretty great. Did you hear that was actually in my episode today that I filmed before coming here. God damn it. And I was like, wait. I was like, I can slip streaming me on the same story. But the thing, okay. The thing that is, I looped it in with the fat beach day that happened in New York. What's that?

On the weekend. So obviously, body positivity movement, they need to be accepted. We have not accepted them enough. We have not meant any enough. They needed to have their own beach day together so that they could encourage more acceptance. So that happened in New York on Saturday. So it was literally just a bunch of fat people. They went to the beach.

And I said this on the show where I said, if this was like an interest group, if there's those people that were coming together with a common shared experience. There you go. Star Wars. If they were coming together because these are people that are trying to lose weight and they need, they are, you know, they have one health problem. They need camaraderie. They want support.

That would be one thing. That's great. I believe that it's wonderful to find people that you, you know, share things with things that you're going through. That community is a more, just in general, I think our society has lost community, but that's not what this is. This is a bunch of, there was like fat New York City models who went literally taking their tops off, posing on the beach.

I was like, no, this is not about you wanting support and being healthier. This is literally you fueling your own narcissism and a desire for attention. And I think that they are flailing right now, cause I've seen a ton of new body positivity movement, uh, TikToks popping up over the past couple of weeks because they're losing their hold with Ozemp positivity movement TikToks popping up over the past couple

of weeks because they're losing their hold. With Ozempic, with people waking up just about their health in general, people are losing weight rapidly. There was a really interesting interview from the CEO and head buyers of a lot of different women's clothing companies and retail stores, and they were saying, we've never seen in the last 15 years, we have not seen so many smalls, extra

smalls sold. And they're begging for smaller sizes. Like they're now going down to like triple zero, which has not happened in the last 15 years. And just back in COVID, they were saying, we need, you know, size 16, 18, 24. I think the average size of an American woman, clothing size was an 18, 16 last year.

And now to see that shift. It's not gonna be for long. Apparently not. Well, I mean, talking about intersectionality, the environmental movement should be happy about people losing weight. Think about how much less material is being used, how much less stitching, the freight amount, the weight that you need to use to transport that

across the world. If only the social justice movement could get on the same page and have some consistency, they might actually do some, they might do some good. So I had Johan Hari on the show and he's written this new book, Magic Pill about Azempic. And the most interesting stuff that I found are all the economic impacts downstream.

So airline companies predicting lower fuel costs because of a lighter populace. All of the confectionary companies, Ben and Jerry's, are trying to dial in their margins because they know that the sales volume is going to go through the floor. Hip and knee replacement companies, way fewer of those because people are less. So interesting.

This was the wildest one. Jewelers using less gold for fat fingers. So the amount of people that have had to pay to go into jewelers to get their rings adjusted because their fingers have grown. But I really think you're onto something here with the sort of ozempic meets body positivity challenge. So for a long time, being obese or being overweight was seen as an identity. And I think that if people can't lose weight,

even though they try, if they can't get what they want, they need to teach themselves to want what they can get, which is being a little bit bigger and saying, well, actually there's no bearing that weight has on health, et cetera, et cetera. The problem now is if you've got- And they put it on you and say, actually, you're the problem. Correct. And it's not that they can't lose the weight, whatever. Yes.

Plain seats or whatever. Problem being, if you can basically bestow on anybody that's got the right medical insurance or 200 bucks a month, if you can bestow on them weight loss to whatever level that they want, you just increase the ozempic dose and you can dial in your weight to whatever it is that you want. It makes being obese much more of an obvious lifestyle choice. And it really lowers the status, I think, of being overweight. When it becomes convenient and easy to be thin. And deep down, that is what people want. I truly don't believe that people want to be obese. I don't believe that people want to be unhealthy. I mean, why?

Again, it's like travel is so complicated, all the other health problems that come with it, the knee replacements, the difficulty just existing in society, which again, I think a lot of people dunk on folks that are overweight and just make fun of them. I'm like, they are struggling. Like life that way is not great.

It isn't designed for them. I don't think it's deciding needs to bend a knee and change airline seat sizes and make all the bathrooms bigger. There was that one video where the one was like, I need hotel hallways to be bigger for me. I'm like, no, okay. How fucking wide was she?

Yeah. She's as huge. Wow. It's like that doesn't need to change, but I still do believe that, obviously they are human beings. They're cute. Wow. It's like that doesn't need to change, but I still do believe that, you know, obviously they are human beings, they're deserving of empathy. But deep down, they don't want that.

And again, they, like you said, they only adopted this because it was like, I can't have this. So I'm going to become really, really passionate and really enraged and make it a you problem because I'm not going to take responsibility. But again, now that there is this opportunity and this innovation that they can easily grasp onto,

obviously they're gonna trickle over here. Well, we saw what happened to Adele when Adele lost weight and she was completely castigated, thrown out of the big girls club, whatever it was, as if it was some sort of a middle finger, as if her being bigger was like a show of fealty, like a flying a particular flag for some group. I think so many feminists want other women

to be ugly and miserable. There's an amazing Bill Burbitt where he says, "'Chicks, if you could only support the WNBA the same way that you support a fat chick that's gained weight and is no longer a threat to you, they'd be doing more numbers than the NBA.'" And it's so true. I have this, you've nailed it,

that I think the body positivity movement is highly motivated for women to encourage their friends to eat themselves out of their competition in the dating market. So you have intrasexual competition, competition between women, and a lot of, quite rightly, girls go, that's fucking disgusting, of course I don't think that.

And it's like, no, you don't consciously think that. No, it's subconscious. Precisely. Women are terrible to each other. That's kind of just a... Well, most slut-shaming comes from women. Yes. Most of the beauty standards come from women.

And it's so irritating when women turn the beauty standards on men and they'll say, oh, the patriarchy made me do this. I have all of these body image issues because of what men have told me. What man has told you that he wants you to, you know, get plastic surgery on your eyelids. That's a new big plastic surgery thing

that's popping up in America. Or if you have like hooded eyelids, you get them like sliced and cut and re-sewn. You know, you have these crazy caterpillar eyelashes on your eyes, you're getting filler everywhere. You're doing all of this. It's not for men. You are aware that guys have no idea what you're talking about. Yes.

They don't know the difference between an LV bag and one that's from Target. And that's the point. They don't care and they don't know. They're doing it for women. Women are encouraging it. They're seeing it on social media. It's like that's, you cannot blame that on men.

You cannot blame the, you know, insane things, you know, how much money you're spending on your nails and your eyelashes and your fake tans on men. That's other women encouraging you to do that. I saw you throw my alumni organization, Love Island, under the bus recently. I did. I can't believe that you would do that. What was your experience? Were the women all fillered up?

So I went on nine years ago, so it was less bad back then, but there has been a couple of sort of transformations. They did an All-Stars thing, so they brought people that had been on previous seasons back on, and there was a few, and you basically got to compare then until now, and I thought, you know, some of the girls that run my season had had a bit of work done, and you compare to now, and they look like Bratz dolls,

and, you know, these stories have gone super, and I feel for these chicks that have been like, I don't know, it's kind of like being gaslit by culture into believing that this is the thing that they need to do. I don't know. Preventative Botox is now the thing in the States. I don't know if it is in the UK. What is that?

Where women my age and younger starting at like 20 years old are getting Botox to keep themselves from getting wrinkles in the future. Does it work? No, it's absurd. And any good esthetician and dermatologist is gonna say, you literally do not need that, but they're making money off of it. And so there's the whole like social media campaign for it,

you know, start getting your preventative botox here, just a couple of injections here and there, make sure you don't get, you know, crow's feet. At like my age, it's like, no, those aren't wrinkles, those are like your dimples. Those are just your normal like lines over your eyebrows, but it's all- For the girls that are listening, guys don't notice. Like we don't know. We are not your normal like lines over your eyebrows. But it's all- For the girls that are listening, guys don't notice.

Like we don't know. We're not doing it for us. We don't know. We don't know what's going on. So one of the other trends that I've noticed is kind of generalized cynicism. And you spent a lot of time in the comment section. A lot of people in your audience are Gen Z.

Why are Gen Z so despondent? Why is there such generalized cynicism? Is that true? Is that just what we see rise to the surface? What's the kind of cultural temperature at the moment for Gen Z so despondent? Why is there such generalized cynicism? Is that true? Is that just what we see rise to the surface? What's the kind of cultural temperature at the moment for Gen Z? I think that there is a lot of cynicism. I think that it can be kind of politically divided. I think Gen Z on the left is a lot more cynical.

But I think that also just goes back to people on the left, especially young people on the left. It's fueled by this desire for victimhood. There's no good in the world. I shouldn't have children because the world is going to go up in flames and there's going to be no Earth anymore, and I don't want to populate the Earth.

I don't want to bring a child into the world. I mean, it is very, very cynical. On the right, social people that are more driven by their faith, there's a lot of hope and a lot of encouragement. I also don't think that they really bog themselves down with that kind of cynicism. But for just making a generalized statement, every generation has gone through hard things.

And so I think that it is not honest and kind of irresponsible to say, oh, well, Gen Z has really had it tough because of COVID. You know, they were born, you know, post-911 and the world changed and, you know, and then Trump came in and there was so much, I was like, there's, we weren't alive during polio and, you know, we don't have any actual wars

that we are physically, like, our men are not being drafted right now. Maybe they will be, I don't know, if they're trying to get women drafted. But right now things are okay. Like, we are better off than we have ever been in the history of the world. We are richer. We are healthier. We are happier by and large. And so I don't think it's correct to say the Gen Z has been through more. I think we've been through different things. The digital age, we are the first generation that was raised fully online. We are more exposed to

seeing things around the world. No generation before us has had this much of an unbridled access to the problems consuming other countries and other societies. So maybe it's a little bit of like, you know, we don't have that innocence is bliss. COVID obviously was very, very difficult for my generation. And I think that sent them on a spiral because obviously, or already we were, our socialization was not up to stuff

compared to older generations just because of the digital age. COVID only made that worse. So again, I don't think that we are worse off. We are just dealing with something different that no other generation has had to encounter before. And I think that they wear that kind of as a chip on their shoulder as well.

Like you don't get it, you don't get it. And it's like, well, no, we understand. We can point to the reasons why, but still take a step back and see that the world is better than it has ever been before. You have more opportunities than you've ever had. Obviously there are problems. There will always be problems.

That's life. Like as a human being, you are always gonna have hurdles. It's kind of the name of the game. And I think that Gen Z has put themselves in the situation where it's like any to have hurdles. It's kind of the name of the game. And I think that Gen Z has put themselves in this situation where it's like any of those hurdles. It's like, oh, I'm out. It's triggering. I now have depression, anxiety.

I need to be, you know, medicated. There's no point in living anymore. It's like they're, they've just thrown in the towel. It's easy, I think, for people who aren't from that generation to look at it and say, well, look, this is just online. These are terminally online people. There's nothing to worry about. This isn't a problem.

It's just a problem on the internet. But I looked at some stats recently that said the average amount of time that an American spends asleep is six hours and 15 minutes, and their total screen time per day is eight hours. So they're on screens for more than they are asleep. The virtual world is more real than the real world. Correct. So that is for you to say, this is just online. It's like you have got the bar stool upside down.

Yeah. It's online. It's all online. Is life. Yeah. That is life for these people. Yeah. So yeah, I think being sort of disparaging of it, it's just not going to get people anywhere.

And if you don't want to sound like a boomer that's completely out of touch, that is not the solution. Saying, ah, it's just online. You're right, you evidently don't get what's going on. That's why you have to meet them where they are and meet them online. And that's why I think, I've had people ask me before,

you were raised with no TV, which I was. I didn't have a TV in my house until I had one at one point in my college years, but never used it. Didn't have cable, didn't have Netflix. I got one when I moved in with my husband because he watches sports. I was like, okay, now I have a TV. But I was very offline.

Didn't have a phone for many, many years. Just had a flip phone when I was in high school. Like I was very, very detached. My mom was very involved with my social media usage as a young person. And people will say, well, Brett, that was your experience. You advocate for that. You advocate for people to get offline, touch grass And people will say, well, Brett, that was your experience to advocate for that.

You advocate for people to get offline, touch grass, is what I say, to have that balance, to go be involved in the real world. And yet you're online and you're in the comment section. It's like, well, yeah, that's where you have to meet them. And the best thing that I can do in my opinion is talk about things that are, you know, terminally online and talk about these online issues,

but give them a framework so that they can dissect them intelligently and have self-awareness. I think the worst thing is that if you're spending that amount of time online, which everybody is, also for my generation, our work is online, our school is online, dating is online, if you want to be involved, you do kind of have to be online as a young adult. The worst thing to do is just to be in that online world on social media and not be thinking about it, not be conscious about what you're consuming. So if I can give them a framework of, so this is alluding to this, this social media trend that sounds really dumb,

that's on TikTok, it's a ridiculous thing. This is indicative of X, Y, and Z that's happening in our culture that is probably fed from this. If I can give them kind of like a, ah, I see where that's coming from so that they're not just blindly consuming it. How persuasive do you find that to be?

Very. I think it's changed a lot of minds. I think it see where that's coming from. So they're not just blindly consuming it. How persuasive do you find that to be? Very. I think it's changed a lot of minds. I think one of the problems people have is that it's pointless me even engaging with a discussion with these people because I feel like they're a lost hope. I feel like there's, you know, there's a lot of people that I think would look at Gen Z and just say, if I can chalk it up as a loss, swing it a miss, let's get onto Gen Alpha, maybe we can do better with them.

I don't think so. I mean, Gen Z men are becoming more right-wing than ever, are waking up about a lot of things. I'm seeing this with young women, that's not, you know, they're not becoming more right-wing, but I do think that they're waking up to a lot of the lies, again, the lies that they've been told, the lies of our culture, of feminism.

I also think Gen Z, you can just see the way that they're already critiquing millennials and wanting to be different. So, Gen Alpha, I don't know if you've seen, like, the Sephora tweens. Okay, so, millennials are very into gentle parenting. And gentle parenting, as it should be described in the actual definition, I don't have a problem with,

of, you know, being engaged with your children's emotional life, leveling with them, not just pointing a finger, disciplining with no explanation, kindness, again, meeting them at their level. But it has become something that is more of a, I guess, a doormat situation where it enables laziness. Pliable parents that do whatever. Yes. It enables laziness. Oh, I'm a gentle parent. No, enables laziness. Pliable parents that do whatever. Yes. It enables laziness. Oh, I'm a gentle parent.

No, you're not. Pliable parenting. Yes. Their children walk all over them. And then they're the iPad kids. Gen Alpha is the iPad kids. And so Gen Z is now in the workforce. They are preschool teachers.

They're kindergarten teachers. They are working at Sephora and they see Gen Alpha come in and have no respect for anyone that's older than them. They're walking around buying drunk elephant retinol products to put on their 12 year old skin because they'd just seen it on social media and nobody in their life, no adult in their life is saying, hey, you're 12 years old,

retinol is for when you're 35, don't buy that. Destroying testers, it's all of these videos of tweens. Tween girls, stealing makeup, destroying the test displays. Why is Sephora fucking ground zero for this? Because they watch beauty influencers. And they all shop at Sephora, fantastic. And so now there's all of these like 12, 13 year old

like little beauty influencers. They're like, hi, come see my Sephora hall, do my makeup for school. I was like, oh my gosh, when I was 12 years old, I was making like little mix music videos in my pool, like my drain pool in the wintertime and never posted them, God forbid that ever made its way onto the internet because it was for our enjoyment, not for clicks

and not for social media. But these young people, because they've been raised online, that is their fun, is like becoming an influencer and posting themselves online. So they watch these beauty influencers, they go to Sephora, they buy this makeup, but Gen Z is interacting with them on a daily basis and they are saying, we don't wanna raise kids like that.

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Probably if you if you're the what we what generation were you I was the beater generation How much is that so I found since 2009, more than twice as many 15 to 19 year old girls and young women have been admitted to the ER for self harm behaviors in the US. Even more shocking, five times more 10 to 14 year old girls were admitted to the ER for self harm in 2022 than in 2009. That's five times more families taking their fourth to ninth grade daughters to the hospital because they have intentionally harmed themselves. It's awful. Where's this coming from? A lot of it, social media.

I said something recently on a show because I covered a woman who got a lot of flack on TikTok for talking about her strict rules with her children, where she does not allow them to take their phones into their bedrooms. They have time limits on their social media apps. Most ridiculous thing was they have to tell her where they're going to go before they go so that she knows where they are.

And parents are like, oh my gosh, you're a stalker. It's like, no, you want to know where your 15-year-old daughter is going to be. Anyway, I talked about her, and I basically said in terms of social media, point me to one study that says that social media is good for young adults, for young women specifically. There is not one. There's not one that even says it is fine. that says that social media is good for young adults, for young women specifically. There is not one.

There's not one that even says it is fine. It is all detrimental. As I think that plays a huge part in it, again, because of what they're seeing and the peer pressure online and the standards that they're setting for themselves that they now want to try to adopt because they see this influencer doing this.

They see this person in Bali on a beach with their hot boyfriend and they don't have that and they'll never be that. They see, you know, these now 13-year-old little girl influencers who are going to press events and getting PR packages. Like it's starting so, so young. And women are very susceptible to that. Purity as a woman is one of the worst things you will ever go through. You feel like the most ugly duckling on planet Earth.

I was so ugly, it was terrible. Because I sprouted, I would say, earlier, but I still had a baby face. And I had a bowl cut. And I was like five, six. Um, Artie was, you know, super tall. Hey, you guys. Yes, it was so weird and it was so awkward.

No boys liked me. And you feel so insecure. And then that being heightened by social media, by COVID and having to live online, I think it's just a perfect storm. It also doesn't help that social media has almost encouraged having a mental illness in a lot of ways.

And Jordan- You glorified that pathology. Yes, and Jordan has talked a lot about, you know, social contagion. I think that is absolutely real. It is the cool thing to be depressed. It is a badge of honor to have anxiety and be dealing with it.

And the more that they engage with that and tell themselves that they are, obviously you're going to become that. Again, it's just a perfect storm. You worked in Hollywood as a child actor. Yes. What did you make about the recent news on Nickelodeon and quiet on set and all of that?

None of it surprises me at all. I feel very, very lucky because I had a great experience, but I had a fantastic experience because I had a mother that was literally a shark who was so, I just cannot say enough good things about her. Who was so engaged in every part of my upbringing and my career, not as a momager, but as a mother. Someone who knew that this industry had the reputation that it did.

She already knew about the casting couch. She knew about child actors and the drug usage and the scandals. She was not interested in me doing any of that. But I loved it. Like, I lived for performing. That's all I wanted to do. And so she saw that in me and wanted to be able to support that.

And I've seen a lot of comments, actually, of people saying, you know, if your mom knew these things about the industry, why did she let you move to L.A. to audition? Why did she take you to New York so that you could go audition for Broadway shows? I just want to take this opportunity to answer it. My brother died when I was five years old.

He was 17. He was an artist, super, super creative. And up until that point, my mom had kind of tried not to put my brothers in a box, but she was like, you know, it was a more of a one size fits all parenting approach. My brother who died is a twin. And so she kind of put the twins together and she was dealing with her failing marriage with my father and that kind of took priority over the kids.

And after he died, she made a conscious decision with me that she was going to completely change that. She was like, I'm not going to prioritize this marriage that is, you know, there is no future, really. She had already kind of decided, both of them had decided that. I'm going to put this child first. And then one thing that she said is, you know, if I knew that David was going to die at 17 years old

and he had all of these ambitions and things that he wanted to accomplish, what would I have done to make sure that he got those opportunities, that he got to enjoy every aspect of that? And so that's why we did it, because she saw that I loved it. I came alive when I was on stage. Um, a lot of things in my family, I think, really shut me down, losing my brother at a young age, my parents' relationship. Obviously, it took a major turn for the worse after he died.

My brother's really kind of went off the deep end in a lot of ways as well. I became very closed off, suppressed. I would literally like hide in kitchen cabinets when people would come over because I didn't want to speak. That all went away when I got on stage and was performing. And so she wanted to keep that up as much as possible because that was my one outlet.

So anyway, that's kind of the backstory of how I ended up there and why she was willing to put me in those situations and also why she was so willing to protect me. So then back to the point, I knew all of that growing up. I knew that it was happening. I had experiences, nothing like what was discussed on,

why am I blanking out? Quite on set. I was about to say after dark, quite on set. Um, you know, Jeanette McCurdy wrote her fantastic book. Uh, I'm glad my mom died about her very abusive mother, momager and her experience with Dan Schneider. She didn't name in her book, but she just called him the creator, obviously for legal reasons. Um, so when I read her book, I remember getting to the end of her book, literally

just like crying because I was like, God. Did you ever interact with Dan Schneider? No, I auditioned for some of his projects. I don't know if I was ever in the room with him. I mean, it was literally, he was so prolific in Hollywood still at the time when I was coming up that at least once a week there would be, I could probably go back in my old email now and, you know, untitled Dan Schneider project, untitled Dan Schneider project.

My mom already knew about that reputation. It was so commonplace that he was a creep that I think I might've auditioned for a couple of them but she drew a line in the sand and said, that guy's a weirdo, she's not going out for any of those projects. She's not gonna go work at Nickelodeon. I desperately wanted to be on the modern iteration

of Boy Meets World, which is called Girl Meets World, which obviously catapulted Rowan Blanchard and Serena Carpenter to fame. I desperately wanted it, and so I like fought with my mom. I was like, please let me go out for this, please let me go out for this. She did not want me on Disney Channel, did not want me on Nickelodeon because she knew

that those children's networks were so filled with creeps. And I ended up doing one children's show at a different network. And that is where my bad experience was. And it's so predictable because it's the men who choose to work with children, with young girls. What happened? It was after the show had ended. And I actually, I told the story with Jordan

and I got a call from my mom. She was like, you missed an important component of the story, so I got a call from my mom. She was like, you missed an important component of the story, so I can actually share that here. It was the writer on the show. And he had wanted to connect with me and another girl who were on the show, and, you know, he was always writing new things,

and I'm gonna create another show. In Hollywood, it's very normal, you know, oh, let's go have coffee or lunch with this, you know, person who could get you this next job. It's always like, what's gonna get me that next job? So they had reached out, he had reached out to this girl who was the co-star on the show with me, was a very, very good friend of mine at the time. And her mom reached out to mine.

I think he had mentioned something about, oh, I'd love to see Brett as well. So her mom reached out to mine and said, hey, you know, Brett's friend is going to go meet up with this guy, would Brett like to go and connect with him? And you know, it'd be great. He wants to see her. And so we ended up going to the Griffith Observatory

and this woman told my mom, you know, I'm gonna be with them the entire time. I'm gonna watch them. Don't worry. I'll be the parent in the room. My mom said, okay, great. Last time she ever trusted anybody in that regard. And so my mom dropped me off.

I went up there. Her mother was nowhere in sight. Watched from the car, basically. Walked around the girth of observatory. This man immediately launches into his lesbian fantasies that he has with me and this other girl at 14 years old. Again, the creator and writer of a children's show. And I get immediately very, very weirded out.

You know, we're walking, there's this part in the Griffith Observatory where you can go and you see what your weight would be if you're out, you know, on the moon or in space. And so we went and like stood on this and he looked at my friend and said, I want to know how much you weigh with your clothes off. It's like stuff like that.

And so then we finally got out of the museum, he's told us about our lesbian fantasies, whatever. We're walking back towards the restaurant and he sticks his hand in our back pockets, like as he's walking like this. And I immediately am just like, get off of me. My friend shoots me a look, like don't screw this up for me. Like don't say anything.

So I don't, so we just keep walking. Get back to the car, whatever. I immediately, you know, dropped off at my house. I talked to my mom. This is so weird. I never want to be around this man again. This was so uncomfortable, so creepy. My mom calls her mom. Her mom admits that she knew. That's why she wanted me there, because I would be a buffer. She said, oh, you know, we know that he's weird. We've gotten very weird vibes. I didn't want her to be alone with him, so we wanted Brett to be there. So she knew, but she was so desperate to have her daughter, and her daughter was so desperate,

I don't know if it was coming from her or coming from her mother, to be in this room and not rock the boat because she desperately wanted a new show, a new audition, a new job, that she was willing to take it and be in that space and then put another child in that situation. And that was normal. And this guy would show up to, he was very enmeshed in my friend group for a long time

because he just worked with all these young people, would show up to teenage birthday parties where maybe like, you know, an acting teacher or somebody would drop by and drop a present, hey, happy birthday, you know, whoever your name is, have a great party, whatever. This guy would come, stay until 2 a.m. with 16 and 17 year olds, who are obviously like getting drunk and getting high, whatever teenage actors are doing. Painted portraits of child actors was a whole thing on his social media. I was just very, very weird. It's nothing compared to what so many have been through. But even in my limited experience,

even with a mother that was so, so careful, that I still had that. And I think that I was in an interesting position because I loved acting and I loved my position because I loved acting, and I loved my career, and I loved working, but my mom had done a very good job kind of saying, you know, this is not your whole identity. This isn't your whole life.

You never have to do anything you're not comfortable with. Like, acting is fun. It should always be fun. It should be a hobby. You should never cross any lines that you're not willing to cross for that. And I don't think that was instilled in my peers. So like my friend who was, you know, shot me that death stare. Don't you like, don't say anything about him touching my butt. And this man groping a 14-year-old, 15-year-old, I think she was a year older than me.

I didn't have that. I didn't care. Like who cares if he doesn't like me? And again, my mom knew all of this going into it. She put me in self-defense against sexual assault. Women's self-defense against sexual assault. Starting at age 11 or 12, I was fighting. Literally in like rape scenarios, date rape situations. Would do that twice a week, was in private lessons.

Did that for probably seven years. And I think that was a huge part of it. Martial arts are just, I think, so important for both men and women, but especially young girls. I think it's so underrated because the confidence that I had because of that, because I knew how to defend myself, because one of the first things that you learn is how to say no and how to use your voice.

And understanding that where you're being touched, that's not right. Um, I had that and she didn't. And that's why I was put in those classes, because my mom was like, you're going into rooms with people that I don't know. You're being brought in by a casting director to go into a room for 15 minutes and do a scene.

I have no idea what they're doing to you in there. You need to know, again, what is appropriate and what's not. Interesting, this sort of line that is kind of similar to helicopter again, what is appropriate and what's not. Interesting. This sort of line that is kind of similar to helicopter parenting, but done in a empowered safe way that's aiming to try and give you as much independence and security as possible. It was the, it was the foundation that was more of a, not a helicopter, but like I'm going to be very, very careful so that then you can go out and do whatever you want to, I know.

You know, similar to the flirting and how to detect whether or not someone likes you, it's the subtle differences, it's the deafness, right? It's the nuance that's really, really important in how you do this. The wildest thing about that story is the complicity of both the girl and the mother in- Did not care. When they were called on it, yeah, oh, sorry.

Yeah, he's really weird. So it's just kind of the price of doing business. Yeah. And there's a lot of that in Hollywood that I think that's one of the reasons why I've made, you know, conscious decision when I was in college that I was like, I just don't think, I don't think this is for me,

because there is, there's a big price. They ask for your everything. They ask for you to be complicit in whatever they wanna do. They ask for you to give up your life and your stability and your control over your personal life. I mean, you know, at the drop of a hat,

you know, you need to fly to Vancouver and shoot this and you know, whatever. They don't care about your personal life, which is fine. It's an industry. They need to, you know, film things when they need to film things and where they need to film things.

But I was not a person that was willing to give all of that. I was also not willing to sacrifice my values. This kind of goes back to the politics stuff. I would get scripts constantly. I would look at the characters that I'm playing. I would read the script in its entirety. If I was, you know, got a movie script and I would kind of, I would sit down and I would dissect

what are they trying to tell audiences with this story? And I would deeply disagree with it. I would hate what my character was being used to convey. And you have no control over that because you're just a shell. That's your job. Well, get back to talking to Brett in one minute, but first I need to tell you about Mementos. Trust really is everything when it comes to supplements. A lot of brands may say that they're top quality, but few can actually prove it, which is why I partnered with Mementos. They make the highest quality supplements on the planet, unparalleled with their testing, and I've fallen in love with their whey isolate protein powder. Each batch is exclusively sourced from EU dairy farmers whose cows are grass-fed and free of hormones and steroids

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Did you see that Disney vice president, senior vice president man talking about how we often don't hire white people for roles? Oh, yes. And there was a mixed race guy that wasn't black enough. Yeah. I mean, that blows my mind as well. It's like how many- You see that, and I saw that all the time, like when, I don't know when this really started

to pick up. It wasn't in 2020 with the L.M. It was before, I think it started a couple of years before that really. But before that you would get breakdowns. It would be, you know, brunette, white, around 12 years old, this is the role. It always, you know, at this point, starting maybe in 2018, very consistently it became ethnically ambiguous,

can be mixed. We are looking- Ethnically ambiguous. Yes, they were looking for people to check those boxes rather than writing characters just because they fit the story or because they're interesting characters. It was, you know, they were writing these characters, but we don't really care who it is.

We need you to check that box. And I saw that on the production side of it as well. I was basically working in my dream job when I was in college because I had made that decision. I don't really know if I want to act anymore. I want to go into production. I always said I wanted to run a movie studio one day. So I was working at a Oscar-winning production company. They did very, their whole thing was character-driven stories.

And very, very compelling. They wanted to leave audiences changed. But they weren't like hit you over the head social justice or, you know, nonprofit style films. These were very, very good standalone films that just at the tail end, they cared that they were making audiences a little bit better. I loved that. And so I was working for them in college and worked for them throughout 2020.

When BLM hit my job, which had been receiving scripts, doing a breakdown kind of of like, before the executives read it, I would go through and write a synopsis of the script that I had received, talk about some of the key characters, what do you learn from this script? Would you recommend this?

Would you recommend this be pushed on through this executive? And so that was like the first person that scripts came to at the company. My job changed from look for good character driven stories, again, that leave audiences changed, that are moving the needle in some capacity. It wasn't for political things,

it was for like making humanity better, that these stories will be used for good. It became changed to we need you to find a Native American protagonist movie ASAP. We don't have enough black people in this movie. We need to axe however percentage of our slate because it wasn't diverse enough. So I saw that as an actor a few years prior

and then I saw that on the tail end of like, this isn't real anymore. These aren't authentic stories you're telling. You are literally at every part of this industry, molding, shaping, adapting, tinkering with to fit these quotas and these agendas. And I was just out. Because the reason I wanted to be an actor, the reason I wanted to be in Hollywood is

because I love stories. I love seeing humanity at its worst and its best. I love being able to sit and relate to somebody who I obviously have no connection to, who might not even be real, but see myself in them. As an actor, I love that, of being able to put myself in somebody else's shoes and process things that might be going on in my personal life in a unique way, because I get to act them and it's safer,

because it's not Brett having to do that, it's this character that I'm playing. All of it was so real and genuine, and suddenly, like, the rug was, you know, pulled out of my eyes. I was like, no, it's all, it's all perfectly designed and tailored. It blows my mind how well Hollywood has managed to faceplant consistently over the last few years. They just do not seem to be able to understand.

There was some Star Wars actress that was, that responded on a late night show saying, we don't want white people watching our show in any case. Did you see her, um, her anti-white song that she released? No. She did that on Juneteenth and it was a, you can pull it up, it's on her Instagram. And it was about racism and how she's oppressed and all of this stuff and she's mixed.

If you Google her name, it's only photos of her and her white father. And she's singing about not liking white people and how white people hate black people. And it's just like, does it make sense? Speaking of going from mainstream media across to independent media, what do you make of Tucker Carlson's move? I thought it was great. I think he turned something that, you know, could have been like career ending. I don't know, I obviously don't know the details

of what happened, but thinking that he was fired, I mean, he could have taken that as like, okay, you know, I'm done. He has become more famous and more culturally relevant since. I mean, the amount of places that I see him now on social media, in real life, doing his tour, the amount of people that I see him now on social media, in real life, doing his tour, the amount of people that I see in random comment sections on social media where like fan edits are made of him,

where it's like him talking about masculinity and family and all these guys in the comments being like, oh, I used to always hate him. I thought he was such a boomer. And I like, I can't get enough of him. Like- Tucker Carlson's leading the Hope Corps movement. Yeah, truly.

I, his thing that he said with Charlie Kirk years ago, and it's ingrained in my mind, it's probably one of the reasons why I got married young, but he was like, get married too young, have more children than you can afford. That's how he starts that. And somebody, he did an interview recently, and somebody asked him about that again and said,

do you still stand by that? Do you think this is still something that people need to hear? And he just gave the most incredible answer about freedom comes with responsibility and taking responsibility, becoming a father, becoming a husband. It changes you in ways that you cannot even describe. He was like, if you think you can't do it the moment that you have a child, no, it's not that you can do it, it's you have to do it. And how empowering that is.

And reading the comments of all of these men, I like, I can't wait to be a dad. This is so true. I never thought that I would relate to Tucker Carlson. It's great, it's crazy. And so I think it's great. I think that he was kind of stuck in a, he was stuck in a certain Fox News brand. So it's great.

Yeah, when you watch Fox now, sort of in comparison with the pivot that Tucker's made, it feels very slow and sort of pedestrian and lumbering. We both got a lot of friends that still do commentary for them, but it's just, I don't know, that old style of TV production for cultural commentary, political commentary and stuff like that. Just I think it's, I mean, is this what you think the future is going to be? Are we going to see more independent creators coming out

of mainstream media dead in your opinion? Or dying, how quickly, how slowly? Quickly, but I think now they've realized how it started to happen. And so they're kind of like playing catch up of, oh, I need to fix this, I need to do this better. We need to keep up with the times. But I think it happened faster than they could have expected.

So I think they looked back and went, oh, we are being left in the dust. So I think they're trying to adapt. But I do think that the future is independent creators. I think that it's people starting podcasts like yours and just getting on YouTube and saying, no, this is what I think, this is what I believe. Again, like I said, the women on TikTok

who just have personal accounts, like 3000 followers who just post their shopping hauls saying, I am done voting this way. Trump derangement syndrome is cringe, it's lame. Don't do that anymore. And they get millions of views. It's just people speaking from the heart, which is very, very cool.

Yeah, I wonder, I think a big part of it, we had Andrew Hubman's little foray with the mainstream media a couple of months ago. They're so funny. So many of those situations, I think, are ostensibly what it's supposed to be, is something that's newsworthy talking about an individual or what they're getting up to. But behind the scenes, what I think it is, is a slowly dying medium, death rattling and kind of grasping at, we're going to use the popularity of this side of the aisle to actually generate

clicks on our side of the aisle. Yeah. And you can have as much criticism as you want and rightly so about the lack of media standards, you know, you're not beholden and neither am I to the same kind of publishing standards, maybe the fact-checking standards that you would have to to be able to get onto a TV organization. But on the flip side, the TV organizations, the only way that they can get clicks for the most part now

is talking about stuff that's happening independently. Like when Don Lemon has decided to make the pivot, you know, like that, I mean, he's the final horseman of the apocalypse, he's got to be. So, yeah. Why did you not do this independently? Why do this with Daily Y? Yeah. You know, like that. I mean, he's the final horseman of the apocalypse. He's got to be. So. Creator for it. Yeah. Why did you not do this independently? Why do this with Daily Y?

You could have, you're the star of the show. It's a, I've seen your setup. It's, how would you say? Lean, lean, complimentarily, it's lean. You know, it's like not, it's not super extravagant. It's no more complex than it needs to be. Why didn't you do your thing on your own? I was very out of my element. I didn't think I could. I think, and I don't

know if I, I'll be confident. I think I could have figured it out, obviously. I'm a smart person. I was very, very nervous. I've changed a lot in the last two years, just on my confidence in speaking about culture and politics. I've gotten to understand social media a lot more. I really had no idea what I was getting into. I had just kind of jumped ship from Hollywood because I had moved from acting to, oh, I want to go into production. Oh, I don't like that either.

So I studied for the LSAT and I applied to law school and got into law school. And then the week of my orientation went, oh, nope, this isn't for me. I'm not supposed to be an attorney. I don't want to do this. And then was literally working as a waitress and writing articles for Foundation for Economic Education and helping Yale with their Young Americans for Liberty, with their copywriting for their development team, their fundraising team. And I was just, I desperately wanted to be with a group of people that was

moving the needle in meaningful ways. I didn't know how I wanted to do that. And so I had started a little Instagram. It had maybe, I think I had racked it up to 5,000 followers, but every time I posted, I was still like, I still had that, I guess like post Hollywood syndrome of if I post this, my career is gonna go away. My agents are gonna drop me. Nobody's ever gonna hire me again.

Even though I had decided, I don't really think this is for me. I was still petrified. Didn't know what my future held. Had no idea if I would just go into writing and become some kind of journalist. If I would end up wanting to go to law school later on, literally had no idea. Was working at this wine bar steakhouse in Boise, Idaho. And the social video team at Daily Wire saw one of my videos that I made for Young Americans for Liberty and they liked me and DM'd me and said, you know, we love what you're

doing. You have a unique angle and a unique voice. Obviously you are camera trained, you're media trained. We'd love to talk with you about producing a show. And I think a lot of people assume that, you know, I came in and Daily Wire had already had this like put together show and they're like, here, we just needed to cast a girl to be the, you know, young right wing girl to get all the guys.

Like that's often a critique that I get. I actually have a pilot that I did independently that I wanted to shop around, but was kind of too scared to and I talked to some other political organizations that is, that pilot is comment section. It has the memes, it has the comments, it had what I wanted to communicate and articulate, and so they had a similar idea, but we brought it together,

we worked on it and molded it for three months before we released the show, and that's what I needed. I felt like I needed that support system. They gave me the opportunity, the resources, the team, which is great. So I think that I could have done it independently, emotionally and confidence-wise. I was not there yet.

I was still absolutely terrified. And I had no idea what I was like, I don't know if this is gonna work. For months, I was like, I'm gonna get fired. They're not gonna like the show. This is gonna be a success. And then it took off like a rocket. I was like, oh'm going to get fired. They're not going to like the show. This is going to be a success. And then it took off like a rocket. I was like, Oh, okay.

I guess that I've like, I've got something that's worth saying. What do you think it was? Why do you think anyone cared? I think it was a combination of a few things. I think that my generation, I think I filled a niche online on YouTube specifically that I knew that I wanted to fill that I had experienced not having. So one thing that I had vocalized many times now is I'm not like a, I'm not the Trump intern, you know, Rhino Republican, you know, the girls in their, you know, beautiful pencil skirts or their perfectly blown out

hair. I'm also not like the badass huntresses that live in Montana and like live on their father's ranches and you know are super maga and super awesome and I'm like I'm obsessed with both of them. I think that they both bring you know really interesting you know discourse and their unique individuals and all that but I was just normal. I was like I have these values and I have opinions that feel very counter-cultural and I'm not seeing that represented anywhere. Like where's just the normal girl that thinks that all of this is insane?

And it's as simple as that. I think that I filled that niche. I also think that I brought humor to a side of the internet and a political corner of the internet that often doesn't have a lot of humor. I try to approach things with levity and hope and positivity and obviously like strike hard when it's needed and drive a point home.

But also it's like, if you're not laughing, you're crying. Like you might as well look at the world and go, no, this is absurd. Let's actually laugh at this because this is so dumb. Like the fat beach day. You have to laugh at that. You have to. It's like, it would not be fun for me and it's not done for anybody.

You're like, they're ruining the world. This is so disgusting, whatever. You have to go, this literally absurd. Like why are they, and that was, I also didn't see that anywhere. You know, I watched, you know, I listened to everybody at the Daily Wire, you know, Matt specifically and Michael I was obsessed with before I came to the Daily Wire, but it was very newsy and it was very serious.

And their fathers, we need to, you know, protect, you know, this society, we need to change things. It was like, I want to have fun, which sounds so silly, but I wanted somebody to speak to me on my level and not make me feel like the world was going to end every five minutes, but truly be able to make fun of it. So I also think that's how it's continued to grow is because the humor and the positivity has reached people across the aisle who might not be right wing, but have common sense and realize this is dumb.

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from people like Tim Ferriss and Andrew Huberman and Peter Atiyah and I love the fact that I'm able to support such an incredible company run by a husband and wife co-founder. So you can get the healthiest red meat on the planet delivered directly to your door by going to the link in the show notes below and get 20% off your first order by going to MauiNuiVenison.com slash Modern Wisdom and using the code Modern Wisdom at checkout. That's M-A-U-I-N-U-I-Venison.com slash Modern Wisdom and Modern Wisdom at checkout. The Daily Y guys can be lightning rods for drama. It feels like Matt Walsh is in the news every other week for something that he said,

you are very good friends with Candice, and then Candice falls out with Ben, and then Candice falls out with DW, and then Candice drags DW for the entirety of the first week of her new show. Is it hard to focus on work when you're embroiled in drama like that, when it's kind of happening all around you?

It is. I think that's why it's so important just to, you know, I try to stay in my lane. I try to stay in, you know, keep my priorities straight and that I want to create good content. I want to, you know, reach people across the aisle. I want to empower young women and make them feel seen. I want to encourage young men.

It's like that, those are the things that I care about and that I want to do. I don't want to empower young women and make them feel seen. I want to encourage young men. It's like that, those are the things that I care about and that I want to do. I don't want to be deterred. You can't fully divorce yourself from the atmosphere. You walk into work and it's just, it's like a fucking war zone. Yeah. And so it's, but that had to be my focus. And so I think that is the first step in that.

Yeah. I mean, everybody's kind of watched this whole fallout happen. It's not a secret, obviously. It's difficult because I know all of these figures personally on a level that most people on the internet don't know. I know Jeremy in a way, you know, I know the Jeremy that's not the God King. I know him that's not the CEO. I really got to know him well when we were shooting Pendragon and I, you know, got to see him in his element, you know, singing and directing and, you know, producing this project that he's wanted to produce for 30 years.

And that was a, you know, genuinely amazing, and our relationship really developed there. But I also know Candice as a friend. She has been one of the most gracious mentors that I've ever had in this industry, who has been such a guiding light, has been an incredible friend. She and George have welcomed me into their home time and time again. Resources, connections.

I think a lot of people look at her and see her as, obviously, she's like a firebrand, and she's ready to go punch and fight. She's genuinely just a very sweet person and a wonderful friend. And so I know both of these parties. I know the personal side of it. I don't know the professional details. Is it difficult to navigate that though? Like, you know, you've got to show up and be the bubbly

pretty girl talking about the thing and the New York beach day or whatever. But in the back of your mind, you've got, I'm in the midst of some fucking marital drama, that weird professional marital thing. In a much bigger sense, you have two friends, they're dating and they break up. And it's like, how are you gonna navigate that? We're still embroiled in all of the friend groups that overlap.

Yes, yeah, no, it is. It's just tense. And it sucks because I think that, you know, Daily Wire is doing incredible things. Ben is doing incredible things. Candice is amazing. She's the best at what she does. She's incredible.

And it sucks that we weren't, you know, that it wasn't going to be able to be together forever, that we weren't going to be the band of brothers. I think that she'll go off and do great things. I think Daily Wire will go off and do great things. And that's kind of just where I have to sit. And again, I can't get into the details because I don't know the details. I'm not in the C-suite.

I don't know any of the legal things. And so I really just have to think of them as, these are people that have been hurt. They're hurting because the relationship has fallen apart. I think a lot of people online don't see that side of it. It's like, these are friends. That's really, really hard to navigate. Well, that's one of the problems I think.

It's very rare because people show up just to see the equivalent independent creator thing that they're used to with news. You know, the guy that does the six o'clock news doesn't talk about the production problems that are going on behind the scenes or the fact that our internet just recently went down so we've actually had to get some local storage because the server, like, no, just tell me the fucking news.

Right, so there's a level of slickness and polish and professionalism that I think most people expect when they watch any kind of content. That changes if you're Sam Sulek and you're just videoing yourself in it. Do you know who that is? Right, okay, brilliant. Ah,

dun, dun, dun, dun, dun. It changes if you're him, but for the most part, you see an organization like you guys and there's still kind of some rules that have been ported across from mainstream media. But the thing that people don't realize or that I think might be useful even to kind of open the doors

a little bit more for everyone, is there's a whole side of operation going on behind the scenes. You know, there's runners and a team and a guy that handles hard drives, and there's a dude that does the thumbnails and the uploads, and sometimes they don't work. And sometimes, you know, you're on holiday

and the internet's down, or whatever the fuck's going on. And the reason that that feels a bit icky, at least to me to talk about, is that it feels like you're molesting the process. It's supposed to be this sort of seamless brain to mouth to internet thing. This is the whole reason that everyone went to independent media in the first place.

It's unencumbered. It's just, you know, thoughts and takes and all the rest of it. And this is why we went here and didn't go, we don't want the polish. I don't need the fancy lights. I don't need the rest of the stuff. You go, yeah, but like structurally,

this shit needs to go from this to screen that you're watching on and there's a process in between and that means that there's contracts and there's employment law and there's negotiations. And there's human beings. Correct. There are human beings that you have personal relationships with and it makes it very, very complicated.

So yeah, I think that's a great point. And a lot of people don't get to see. So, I mean, we saw this, absolutely saw this with Steven Crowder and DW. Like the entire, you know, the skirt was lifted up. There was no pants on underneath. Like everything got revealed to the world there. So yeah, you see, I don't know, it's interesting.

And again, that was a very personal relationship. I mean, he was a long time friend of Jeremy and Ben's. And so that was not just pointing fingers at Daily Wire a very personal relationship. I mean, he was a long time friend of Jeremy and Ben's. And so that was not just pointing fingers at Daily Wire and then snapping back at Crowder and then all of that. I mean, these were long time friends. It was a relationship that was broken. It's really interesting to see what's happened

to Crowder over the last year. Like a lot of people seem to have sort of turned his ex co-host, a couple of ex-co-hosts. Yes, I don't really know what's going on with that. I haven't been keeping, I didn't. I saw a tweet about it today. I know that there's some updates, some lawsuit, a second lawsuit, I don't know.

I don't know, yeah. It's, the more that you kind of get involved in that, the less that people actually take you legitimately. I think it's a good idea to try and stay clear of that as much as possible. And yeah, people can either come to you for the content or they can come to you for the drama about your content. You don't really get to pick one of the two.

Like Destiny had a massive problem with this, I think, over the last year, that people stopped coming to him for his content and just started coming to him to find out what car crash he was fighting with this week. Like, who is it that he's going up against and what's going on with his love life and what's that thing that just happened over there? You go, dude, I mean, fair play, but you don't really get to have it both ways. You either get to talk about the thing you're talking about

or people get to talk about you. You don't really get to do both. Correct. Yeah. How do you decide what you want to talk about on the show? I go on social media. That's really the crux of it. I spend a lot of time online. I'm pretty chronically online.

Which is hard. You just need to have balance in your life. Um, but I go through TikTok, Twitter, Instagram. I see what's trending. A lot of times the things that I'm really interested in and I feel like the episodes that, you know, these often

don't do the best, but they're the ones that I'm like, oh, I want people to see these I'm really interested in. It's connecting the dots about kind of the underbelly of social media. So this isn't like, oh, a celebrity did this. This isn't the Justin Timberlake got a DUI story, which I'll obviously cover and talk about,

but the things that I love is, I think I touched on this a little earlier of like, okay, these trends are popping up on social media. They're not mega, mega viral, but a lot of women are talking about this. A lot of men are doing this. I'm seeing this commonality in the comment section. Why?

So let me show you this and then let's tie it into, here's an article about this from five years ago. When did this start? What does that mean for our future on social media? How can I break this down and explain it to you? So those are my favorite episodes to do. I think people find those interesting because it's almost like a little video essay of like,

hey, here's what's going on in the Gen Z, the underbelly of TikTok. That does mean though that I have to be in that. Crawl through the muck and the mire and the feces. I have to find the, like if you saw my messages to myself on TikTok, like when you send yourself messages to like say them, that's how I say things.

Oh my gosh, you would think that I was just absolutely manic. But I see something and I've gotten good at it at this point of like, that's unique and I'll send it to myself. And then three days later, oh, I'm seeing it again. I knew that that was something boom, boom, boom.

And then a week later, when I have a slate of things, I'm like scrolling up through my messages to myself. Boom, I knew what I saved it. Like I can connect these dots. So it's a lot of digging online. And then sometimes, like the Justin Timberlake story, oh, let's talk about the fall of celebrity

and what that means for his marriage and why is his wife on all of these talk shows talking about how she really doesn't like that he's on this tour and he really needs to rest with his. It's like, okay, so what's going on there? Like, is he not an active participating father? What's going on? So like tying those together. And then of course, there's the more political current events type news that I don't do often because I think that-

It seems like you've leaned away. I've heard you say that you're actively becoming less and less interested in politics. I'm more interested in culture and how that feeds into politics. So rather than talking about Biden said XYZ, I would rather talk about a cultural issue and then kind of tie it into things that are happening. So it's like, you know, I'm seeing this online, people aren't buying houses, Gen Z is crying online because of their financial instability.

Oh, let's talk about the economy and what you voted for. I would rather kind of circumvent it and go that way rather than go, here's a video about Biden's economy and the Federal Reserve and how they're effing us all over. I think it definitely triggers some sort of antibody responses from people if you open up with the politics side because, oh, if you're not on my side, then you're on the other side,

which means that I don't get to listen to what you're going to say. Do you ever get sort of fatigued or exhausted having to do the newsworthy, trendworthy stuff? I know that you're an earnest person. It seems like you want to make things that matter. I don't know how many people are going to go back in six months and watch Justin Timberlake's DUI

or James Charles learning to sing. I know that that's kind of, are you worried about how evergreen and how much sort of gameplay click newsworthy stuff versus I wanna make a body of work that over time, I look back on and I go, meaningful, meaningful, meaningful, made value, added value. Oh, I'm very concerned with that.

And that's why over time, that was not the case at first. It was very current events. I mean, you can go back to my first videos and there are very, very few of them that I would say have stood the test of time. They're not evergreen, very, very newsy them that I would say have stood the test of time. They're not evergreen. Very, very newsy. When I intentionally moved away from that,

it was actually kind of by accident because I rarely skip a day of comment section. I would rather pre-record and have things going out just because with people who don't know like the YouTube algorithm, you need to be posting at a certain rate. You don't wanna screw up your algorithm. And so I would rather put in the work

a week before I go on vacation and film at least one episode in advance, or one episode every day. I usually do two. And post those and get those up. And so when I was doing those, those can't be current events. I can't be talking about what Biden said or what celebrity did XYZ. So I have to be thinking, okay, what is something that is actually relevant that is going on right now? That's kind of where that structure came from of how can I take something that is sort of going on that's bubbling, that's not a, oh, I have five minutes to talk about this and get those million clicks and views, but I can bring it into a broader conversation. So that's, it accidentally happens.

I went, oh, I love this. This is so much more meaningful to me than having a dunk on a lib on a random Wednesday that nobody, you know, 100,000 people are going to watch it in the first, you know, four hours and then it's just going to go away because every other person on the right has talked about it and there's something else, you know, Biden's pooped his pants and now they're talking about that, whatever it is. And so it all kind of happened accidentally.

And so now I kind of strike a balance because I do two shows a day. It's a lot of content. And those all can't be just at the volume that we're doing, those all can't be evergreen. That's like, I would not be able to sustain that. There's not enough philosophy to do 14 shows. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's not, and I don't think I have enough time

as one individual to be in the underbelly of TikTok, draining substance from the most disgusting social media platform. Yeah, literally, that's me. Like, please give me something. And so I mix them up. And so, you know, I'll do, oh, you know, here's three episodes about, you know, these things that have happened in the news and then here's three others that I think are much more substantial.

And there are things, interestingly interestingly that I've been surprised by where I've done something that's more newsy and I look back and it's like, how does this have 4 million views now? But something else has come up, like this person is back in the news, they go back, they find the video. So it sometimes can surprise you.

But I want to add substance to some of the most vapid and superficial things online. Like if I can do that, then I'm doing my job right. If I can take a Justin Timberlake story, that I, like, I told my husband I was gonna talk about this. He was like, Brett, that is the most idiotic story. Like, why are you gonna talk about this? I don't wanna hear about Justin Timberlake. And I'll often run my stories by him.

He was like, this is so dumb. And then the episode did really well, and he listened to it. He was like, yeah, you actually had a great take that was so interesting about their marriage. I'm like, that, if I've, you I've gotten you to change your mind about it, if I can pull some substance to spark a conversation about marriage and parental priorities. And even just, you know, for five seconds about, oh my God, it's 2024, call a freaking Uber, don't drive drunk.

I shouldn't have to say that. But if I can say that to some of the 18 year olds that watch me, then I've done something right. There's an idea from internet marketing, which is, uh, sell people what they want, teach them what they need. And it's kind of the same in content creation, which is sort of like click for the rage, stay for the insights. And, uh, you know, it's unfortunate that there's a game that needs to be played, but I think striking the balance is very important. You know, we're consciously thinking about, uh, like D limbically hijacking the channel, not that it really is that much at all, but that's something that I'm always thinking about, like, how, how can I get,

how can I strike the balance between making sure that the numbers are there, that this important guest or message or whatever gets out to the requisite number of people, but also do it in a way that doesn't feel cheap or tacky. Uh, and you know, there's a, an ick that, and the bottom line for any audience member that doesn't like the direction that a channel is going in, in terms of the way that they frame stuff, if it's the content, then that's a bigger problem. The way that they frame it, it's like, dude,

creators just make what you click on. Yeah. Like if you don't like it, click on something else. Yeah, that goes back to meeting people where they are. And it's like, if the strategy of starting with, what people wanna click on what they're interested in. And then, like you said, getting into what they need to hear,

that's not working, I would change the strategy. But my generation does wanna know what's on TikTok. They wanna know what this influencer did that's so insane. They wanna know whether this viral woman on TikTok is actually like an absent mother or if she's real. They wanna know what Justin Timberlake did. And so they're going to click on that. So it's like, why wouldn't I start with that and bring them in and meet them where they are. What have you learned since working with Ben? Oh gosh. Ben is, I've never met anybody who was so good at absorbing information

and then bringing it out to the masses. Like there is, I cannot comprehend, like if you, if there, you know, something that the Supreme Court does, something that Biden does, you know, politics can be very muddy to a lot of people, how legislation actually works. Like in my, you know, people have been for a lot of different reasons. The reason why I loved him when I was coming up and started listening to him was because he made it digestible, he brought it to normal people and said, here, let me tell you what's actually going on. Let me break it down for you.

And he can do that in five seconds. And that is so admirable. And I think that that critical thinking and his ability to dissect it is such a great skill. He also works harder than anybody I know. I mean, he is like constantly improving, constantly writing books. It's like I was in Miami with him back last summer

and he comes in and he does the show and he'll like begrudgingly do the social media things that his team wants him to do. And then immediately he's going into an interview. He's flying here to meet with this person. In his off time, he's writing three new books and, oh, I wanna go create this venture. I'm gonna call Jeremy about doing this thing.

And he does it all between the hours that his kids are at school. And he said to me, my kids don't know that I work. My work does not infringe upon my time with them. I drop them off, I pick them up, and then I spend time with them and I put them to bed and then maybe I'll write some more. But I mean, he is so dialed in,

works out right in the middle of the day. It's a well-oiled machine, his whole operation down there in MoCA. It's fully intentional, condensed, which I think it is very easy for this job. And that's something that I'm working on and something that Jordan and I kind of talked about of, in this transition into being a wife,

wanting to be a mother, what is that gonna look like? How are you going to be able to do that? This job, it feeds out into your personal life. It feeds out into, this is not a nine to five. Not that it's easier or harder, it's just very, very different. It's not something that you can just leave at home. Like, again, I'm constantly online.

I'm constantly searching for stories. If I'm out just at the grocery store, I might be, you know, off the clock. People know who I am. They're going to come up and they're going to talk to me. I'm very aware of who I am and what I represent. And that's always on. Like, the only place that's off is like when I'm at home with my husband and my dogs. And like, I can just like, that ends. And so I think that Ben has done a very good job of setting those boundaries. And I think, you know, especially for younger creators and people coming up, like that is a skill

that you have to learn. Those are lines you have to draw in the sand and it's difficult to do that. Boundaries are so hard. I don't know anything about his family. He's got 85 children or something and his wife's a doctor and beyond that, I don't know anything.

I think that purposefully making your private life boring or just opaque at the very least, uh, is a really, really good strategy. Same for Rogan. I know he's got daughters and a wife and a golden retriever. And beyond that, I don't know what they're studying, whether they're at school, what the wife does for work. You know, I don't know any of those things. And yeah, I mean, Mary Harrington has got this idea of a digital hijab,

where she basically says there's certain areas of yourself that you should keep from the internet. And it definitely seems like Ben has worked very hard, given the amount of scrutiny and the amount of people that have got a problem with it, agree with them or disagree with them. But I think that if someone wants to keep their private life private, that should be something which is respected. Yeah.

It's very hard to do. I mean, it's like the Streisand effect, where the harder you try to keep something private, the more public it will become, which is, but I think he's done a very good job of it. Well, also not like, this is a secret. Nobody like, nobody know what I'm doing. Which creates its own kind of sort of a desire. Mistakenly want to know. Yeah. It's just, nope, this is what I do.

I go home, I don't talk about it. I got a lot of flack for keeping my relationship private for as long as I did. Because I didn't have- Why did you get flack about it? They felt like they were owed information about my dating life, I think. Meanwhile, Alex Cooper is able to get

in a long-term relationship whilst talking about the virtue of casual sex for four years, gets married, says that the proposal was brilliant in a rose garden, got down on one knee, and there's just this wake of hundreds of thousands of girls who've been like conned by this. She never got, uh, the requisite sort of call to arms that I think was needed for that, like this chick who's been the forefront of a big, like one of her first

few episodes is about the glug, glug 5,000, like some blowjob like episode. Meanwhile, she is secretly having a relationship that turns into an engagement, that turns into a marriage. And it's so beautiful. And I really, really feel, you're like, what the fuck was all of that? What was this part of the work that you just did?

And that was one of the bits where I thought, you know, you want to talk about female privilege. No one called her to account for that. No one. Yeah. And I think that's, not people put me in the same camp as that, but I think that they probably felt betrayed.

All of those episodes about blow jobs that you just keep on doing. I, exactly. You won't shut up about them. I know, all my, you know, I hook up all your episodes. So I understand that they, you know, it's the internet. My generation, influencers in my generation,

they give a lot of their private life. They have a lot of access to us. And I made sure that when I started the show, when I created the channel, I didn't, you know, I was drawing a line in the sand with parts of my life and parts of my personal life, I didn't want to obviously get access to everything, but I wanted them to know who I was drawing a line in the sand with parts of my life and parts of my personal life. I didn't want to obviously get access to everything, but I wanted them to know who I was as an

individual outside of just me sitting in front of a microphone. I think that's really, really important, especially if you're trying to bring people over from the other side, being able to level with them. I'm not just a face on a screen. I'm a human being who's going through what you're going through. And I wanted to make sure that I did that. But there were also parts of my life that I wanted to keep private. And so, you know, I only said that I was with somebody

when KeeperPost and I posted a photo of our engagement. I was like, well, now this is real. And I had a lot of people, you know, I still have memes on my, anytime I post on Instagram, it's men still posting like, no, she's gone. Yes. It's kind of become a- It's over boys. Boys trend was so good. Sneak-o, so upset.

Yeah, it was funny. It was good. But, so I understand that they felt like they had access to me. And then there was such a significant part of my life that I didn't share, but it was very intentional. It's also not central to your content. No, exactly. And I didn't, and contrary to what Alex Cooper was doing, I wasn't saying, you

know, don't have a serious relationship. Don't get married all the while. I'm like, hee hee hee. You're like, I'm going to trick you while I get married. I also wasn't, I think this might be kind of where that hurt came in was that. I believe that there were men out there who watched my content that felt like maybe they had a chance or it's like, this was the. I would see those comments. I don't want to say that without being like, oh, tooting my own horn. It's just kind of that's what I saw and I've been told that.

As I think they felt betrayed in that regard of like, she led us, you know, but I never intentionally did that. Like I never said, oh, you know, you could have a chance to date me if you wanted to. It was just like, you kind of, you know, you had this idea of me. But I'm very, very glad that I kept it private. I think it's very difficult to date and have a relationship when you're a public figure. It's very hard to kind of pick and choose what stays private. And as we were talking about at the beginning with dating,

it's hard. It's even harder when you're a public figure and when you don't really have any experience doing this and you know you're meeting somebody in person for the first time. My first time being famous too. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And it's just, you know, there was not a roadmap for that. But there's an equivalent, I think, for everyone. You know, it doesn't matter whether you're in some ivory tower behind Ben Key's production door talking to a few million people, or you're just a normal person with 3,000 followers on Instagram. If you start posting a lot about your relationship,

other people will become invested in it in a way that it disorganizes and it skews the way that you see yourself and there's expectations. And the priorities, it's very, like I, I mean, the people who are just dating in relationships and start these like relationship TikToks, there's a-

What's that? Like they're a couple TikToks, like they have joint accounts and they do like relationship content and not like here's how to get a good man a date. It's just like, we're doing couples trends and this is us going our day-to-day lives. Like there's one, there was a big breakup recently on TikTok.

I think her name is Tiana, his name is Corey or Cody. He's an NFL player. They just got engaged, but people have been able to track their entire relationship on TikTok. And they always do, you know, trend, she's at every NFL game, they were like, ooh, the, you know, the TikTok it couple. They broke up right after they got engaged,

nobody knows what happened. Drama, I mean, TikTok blew up for days and are now attacking him, attacking her, what happened, making up all these lies saying that he was an abuser or actually he shit on her. So now she has to come on and say, that didn't happen. Sometimes relationships just fall apart,

but now you have literally millions about millions of people deep diving, what happened? I mean, I do that. Cause you brought me into your life. And now I see- I'm invested. I know, I'm like, I wanna know. You can't tell me to not be invested.

Watch what we're doing, but now stop watching what we're doing. wanna know. Tell me to not be invested. Watch what we're doing, but now stop watching what we're doing. There was a guy who made a video. Care about what we're doing, but now stop caring. Yeah, there was a guy who made a video about this and he was like, if you're going to be in a public relationship and get us invested, if you break up, we deserve to know why,

because otherwise we're gonna go dig. I was like, I agree with that, like just say it. But I agree that I'm also like the person that's on the other side of the camera. I'm like, I don't want to do that. So that's why you do have to be very careful about like what door am I going to open up? So I like slightly opened it up when we got engaged

based on his comfort level and he kind of wanted to like tiptoe. He's very, very private. Does not want to be on camera, does not care. That's one of the things I love most about him is he does not care that I'm some public figure. When we started dating, he would intentionally never watch my show.

Never. I've always been like, don't you want to, do you like the show? Like, do you support me? And he was like, no, I don't want to think of you as the girl on the screen. I want to get to know Brett that I go on dates with, you know, who I get to spend time with off of, you know, off camera. Another thing that he said that I just thought was so, I'm so glad he did this. It was like, I want to make sure that we can hold a conversation and talk about things

that you haven't just talked about on your show. It was like, it would have been so easy for me just to watch your show and we go on a dinner date later that night and go, oh, so you were talking about, you know, X, Y, Z and you did another episode about that. What did you think? Like, that was just kind of a crutch. He was like, I wanted to make sure that-

His prep for the day was watching your episode. Yes, yeah. Like, I'm gonna get ready. And so he never watched it. And I'm so grateful for that. And so he, you know, I don't think, he never set out to like date a public figure or want to be with one. And so I wanted to be very careful and respectable,

like respectful to him and what he wants and what he's getting into by being with me. And so then by cracking that door open, I saw the Streisand effect, you know, in real time because I hadn't shown his face. I hadn't talked about him, had not said his name, anything about him, just said, you know, fell in love with this guy, love him to death,

I'm getting married, did an episode about it on a comment section where I just said, you know, this has happened, this is why I kept it private, I intend to keep it, you know, private moving forward. Oh my God, they just latched in. It was like the internet detectives just went, they found out who he was within two months. Yes. And it was not like, oh, here's his LinkedIn with his photo that I think is like, you know, he looks so handsome, whatever. It was like photos of

him as a sophomore in college dressed up as a hot dog at some frat party. And here he is like dancing on stage when he's the best man at his friend's wedding. He's definitely had a couple beers, and he's, like, on stage dancing, and they're like, oh, look at this, you know, whatever. They immediately found him. Found his family, created stories about him. There were so many Reddit posts of, like, you know,

whoa, he's gonna destroy our life. I know these kinds of guys. And they knew nothing about him. And so, at that point, we had a conversation. I talked with the guys on my security team, because at that point I was genuinely concerned because they had found out so much about him. And we made the decision together.

I was like, I would rather be ahead of this. And you're the person that I love and I wanna protect you and I wanna kind of present you to the world, which sounds so weird. And it's so odd that you kind to think about that and I did. And so when we got married, my friends who run the conservatory, which is just an amazing digital magazine, kind of trying to be the alternative to Teen Vogue and Seventeen and

I mean honestly, not even Teen Vogue, just Vogue. They do really, really high caliber stuff. The girls who run that are good friends of mine and so I I asked them, you know, will you cover the wedding? Cause I know people are gonna be interested. They're gonna have questions about, you know, what dress did you wear? What did you do? Whatever. And they're gonna wanna know about him.

And I want this to be done in a very tasteful way that represents our values and what we wanted this day to commemorate and why we did our wedding the way that we did. And then share information about him just so that it's like, it's settled, basically. So it's out there, no more strisand effect, nobody digging.

So interesting that there's this sort of sweet spot between not enough information, not enough means that people are gonna go digging. Too much information means that they start to get invested. And there's this weird habitable Goldilocks zone in the middle. Yeah, I just have to stay there. It's enough to be satisfying and not so much that it's no longer boring.

Yes. And yeah, I mean, it must be interesting as well, having the power dynamic the other way. Typically it's guy out front, famous man with sort of humble wife at home type thing. And this one's the other way around. I think it's, it's an interesting dynamic, but it's not weird and it hasn't been a problem.

And I think a lot of people assume that it is. And also I talk about, you know, traditional gender roles and trad and so people look at me and they're like, well, you don't have that because you work and your husband's not in front of the camera. Doesn't mean he doesn't work. Like he, you know he owns his own business. He's very successful.

He's just private. But just because I'm out front and he's not like our relationship at home, again, separating the Brett online from the Brett that goes home to him every night, like that's very traditional. Like he's still the head of our household. Like I still, I mean, revere and respect him,

trust him to lead me and lead our family. It's traditional in that sense. And that I think is more important than having him, you know, be the more superficial figure in like an image, like aesthetic of a traditional. What have you learned or given the fact that you've got two women for every one man completing a four year US college degree by 2030, you've got women out earning men in their twenties as well. What have you learned about navigating, even if he is professionally successful on his own, there is a odd sort of turning of the polarity in some ways. What advice have you got for guys and girls that are trying to date or be married

in a situation where part of the power dynamic has changed a little bit more. Again, I think it goes back to basic respect and who you are when you leave your jobs at the door. And that you do need to leave your work at the door. I think that you should be, for women, you should be looking for a man who can provide, not just like, oh, he can buy me all the fancy things that,

you know, I want and whatever, that he can emotionally provide and that he's stable. I also think women are less willing these days. And this sounds bad, maybe you have a better way to say it, but like a man in progress. Under construction. Under construction, yes. And there's all of those stats about, you know,

women mature faster than men. And so if you're marrying or dating somebody around your age, you know, it's quite common for a woman to be a little bit ahead, even just mature wise, maturity wise. And so I think have grace and understanding and, you know, pick somebody who is ambitious and who is willing to take big swings for you.

And for men, you know, be willing to show that, like if there's a type of woman, again, that you want, it's like, what can you do to get to that level? Even if you're not there yet, that shouldn't stop you. It's like, be willing, be bold at a young age when you don't have any other responsibilities, you don't have to live in a certain place, you're not having to provide for a family yet. Like what risks, you know, calculated risks can you take for a major, major payoff? You know, what can you do to set yourself up for success?

Like this is the time to, you know, start a business, be bold, don't just be like the cog in the machine. If you want something more, like that's the time to do it. And then prove to this woman or this partner, if it's, you know, if you're a girl, that, that you have those abilities, I guess, in that ambition. That's what a lot of women, I think, are signaling off is a man's capacity for growth. If that wasn't the case,

why would the starving artist guitarist that sleeps on his friend's couch be attractive? Well, the reason that he's attractive is that he's kind of like a penny stock, but I see his talent and I see his artistic ability. And, you know, the ruthless thing, I think, for professionally successful women is that that same talent is not valued by guys. You know, the, but she might become a really successful business woman in future.

It's like, you know, the 21 year old barista from Starbucks, that's a bit more agreeable and emotionally stable, wins every time. So I think, yeah, educating guys and girls on what the other side is looking for. Yes. I've been talking a lot about women cultivating receptiveness.

So- Oh, that's so good. Yep. So, you know, in sort of the aristocracy era in Britain, ladies would drop a handkerchief in front of a man that they sort of wanted to come. It's like, look, I know that you might have approach anxiety and are kind of stupid. Like here's the least subtle cue that I can give.

Again, going back to, we don't know how to do it, men and women. Like I remember my mom called up one of my friends who was just having a hell of a time dating. And this is one of the reasons, it's one of the stories that I tell where men are like, women don't want us, there's no good women. I'm like, they're my friends, they're out there.

They also don't know what they're doing. And they are desperate to find someone. Have you considered doing a matchmaking service? I would love to, I don't know how to do it, but we're thinking about it, putting something together. I actually really started thinking about that when Jordan came to Bridgestone here. And I had all of these young people coming up to me

because all of the Daily Wire folks went. And so we were walking through Bridgestone and saw all of these young people. I was like, there are thousands of you here. All of you young men in your Jordan Peterson suits and all of these girls here, I know that you're single. I was like, how can I get you to meet? I was like, oh my gosh, you're here

in this one opportunity, please go find each other. Oh gosh, where was I going with that? Your friends. Oh, yes. Your friend that was having a nightmare. Um, my mom called her and said, you need to, like, do you know how to flirt? Do you know how to flirt?

Cause she was like, no, but like I go on these dates and they don't kiss me and I, or like they don't move forward and he doesn't text me after like, what am I doing? And again, she's super cute. She's really smart. Comes from great family, great values, you know, very agreeable, but we learn. Give dates, she would just like sit at the opposite

like end of the table, don't touch nothing. And she was like, well, I don't want to be promiscuous. My mom was like, it is not promiscuous to brush his shoulder to like, oh, scoot over a little closer. Don't sit on the opposite end of the table. If he's trying to show you on your phone, go over to the other side of the table and sit next to him. Like why? She was like, oh, I'm so scared. I didn't know that that's what I had to do. Chicks need to learn Kino escalation. They should have done some pick-up artistry.

Yes. So yeah, again, it's on both sides. There's a lot to learn. The handkerchief one is great. And also what you said about, you know, the agreeable barista at Starbucks, if she makes eye contact, if she's sweet, if she flirts, if she shows a genuine interest in you, like that's what men are going to be interested in. Not the girl boss who's so focused on like,

oh, I've made this much money and I've done this, and I'm getting my bag. I was gonna be like, oh, that's... Scary, intimidating. Yes. Yeah, I mean, in a post-MeToo world as well, I think it's important for girls to realize that if no meant no previously,

anything that isn't a fuck yeah is a run away from me as fast as possible. So, you know, there's still a like carry over, latent carry over from why men love bitches, treat him like you don't like him, that world of playing hard to get, but playing hard to get now from a girl to a guy for the guy is just perceived as exactly like this is a headline waiting to happen.

Yeah. So I think everyone just re centering their expectations. Correct. Is probably a really good place to start. Yeah, I agree. I've heard you say that you were socially awkward as a kid. Oh, so socially awkward. Is there an advantage to being a little weird

when you're younger? Absolutely. That's kind of one of my rebuttals to people saying, oh, don't homeschool your kids because they're gonna turn out weird. They're not gonna be normal. Look at the normal kids these days. Do you really want your kids to turn out like that?

To be like gender confused, hooking up with people on drugs, mentally ill, illiterate? No, I would much rather be a little bit of an oddball. I was not like, I was never socially weird in that I, I shouldn't say never. After my brother died, really struggled with being social, working through all of that, it was just very, very difficult.

Performing really got me out of my shell. Again, like, I came alive being on stage. After that, I became the weird homeschooled musical theater horse girl. I had literally every stereotype stacked against me, humanly possible. I actually asked my husband about that, and I said, if you had told your private school across playing self at 15 years old that you were gonna end up marrying, again, the homeschooled theater kid horse girl,

what would you have said? He was like, I mean, I would have been horrified. Um, so I was weird in that regard. I always marched to the beat of my own drum. I was, once I got, you know, through all of my social, I don't want to call it anxiety, but just my trepidation. Awkardness. Yes, after my brother died.

And that was more so environmental rather than me not being social and being shy. Once I made it through that, my social awkwardness was just that I was unique. I can talk to a tree. I've never met a stranger even from a young age or like eight years old. And that was one of the benefits of being in Hollywood and working from a young age. I don't think it needs to be in Hollywood,

but making sure that young people are working and have some kind of responsibility is so that they interact with adults. They interact with people that are older than them. I think one of the biggest drawbacks of the traditional school system is that students will interact with their teachers, they'll have a one-off, you know, adult in the room, but the majority of people that they interact with on a daily basis are all their peers.

Kids learn from kids. Yeah. And it is not only just in their same age bracket, but it is from the same school system, the same county, the same neighborhood. Or if you're at a private school, it's still the same town, same background, the same crop of more affluent kids that are going to this private school. With homeschooling, I had the complete opposite experience. I would go and I would take ballet classes and I would meet girls from every different part of Tennessee. And then I was in LA and I had progressed more, so I was dancing with people that were five, six years older than me and had to interact with them. I had to hold my own. When I was working as an actor, you know, you are working with adult directors, writers, producers, people who are playing your parents. They aren't really looking at you as a kid because you are an employee.

You are being hired to do. Yes. It's like, no, we're not playing your games. It's like, you're here to work. Know your lines. That responsibility is huge. You know, also when I was homeschooling, like I was in gymnastics so that I was with a different set of people. I did my tennis, not pickleball. And was at my tennis camp with a bunch of other students. I, you know, my parents went to two different churches going back to their incompatibility.

But I would, you know, have two different groups of people at churches. My mom was very, very, very engaged in philanthropy and working with nonprofits. And so I would go with her and I would volunteer with her, contribute, be around people from vastly different backgrounds. I mean, like every Christmas we would adopt

a different homeless shelter in Chattanooga. And so not only was I interacting with, oh, the other kids whose parents are able to afford gymnastics or dance, but I was like, no, I'm around, you know, the children of the women at the Matter Women's shelter and being able to hold a conversation and empathize. So I was weird, but I was very, very social

and more socially advanced than my peers. What would be your advice to someone who's suffering with a bit of social anxiety or maybe a parent of a child who's got social anxiety and wants to become better socially as patient zero for, I couldn't communicate particularly well for a little while. If stepping out and doing pantomime isn't the solution. You don't want to go to an improv class. I feel like this isn't a good answer. And so let me know what you think, but you just have to start.

It's kind of like, again, going back to the dating, going back to working out, you do 10 pushups a day. It's like, again, if you are at Starbucks, can you say an extra two words to the barista? Perfect example that you gave. It doesn't have to be for the, um, it doesn't need to be a means to an end for dating. It can just be to get yourself comfortable. Jordan talks about this all the time of exposure therapy. Do exposure therapy for yourself.

That actually became a huge trend on TikTok, funnily enough, of people saying, I have a problem with rejection. And so they would do, a few different creators did this. And so they would put themselves into a situation where they were going to get rejected every single day. Going into Walmart, hey, can I go into the back room and just look around? No.

There's a, if you Google a hundred days of rejection. Yes. Yeah. A hundred days of rejection is 10 years old now, but it's ask for a free coffee, ask a person on the street if they'll give you a hundred bucks. They're just randomly ever escalating things. But yeah, I mean, overcoming rejection, overcoming that fear, I think by purposefully putting yourself into it. And it's the same as the low stakes conversation that we

were talking about earlier on, that when you don't care about the outcome, it makes going into it, the stakes are way lower. There's no pressure because you didn't expect this to go well, and they're not going to give you a free coffee, but maybe they'll give you a discount or maybe they won't laugh at you or maybe you won't die. They won't call the police.

That's a good start. That's the biggest thing, is like, you have survived that. You had that interaction, you were okay, nothing in your life fell apart. You can, you know, move forward. Um, and it's also a habit. Like, I am... I'm a better, more confident person

when I'm doing the show every single day. When I am sitting in front of a camera, having to articulate myself, having to interact with people. If I interrupt, like, I don't think I could ever like take a full month off and never, you know, do the show. Like I always need to be doing something,

writing, working, you know, engaging my brain in some capacity because you just turn inwards and even like the most social of us. I'm very extroverted. I literally talk for a living. But if I take away the structure of having to show up every day and do this and put myself out there, like if I come back, if I've taken, when we were shooting Pendragon in Budapest,

there were a couple of weeks when I did not do the show because I was on Pendragon. We were, you know, flying back and forth between Hungary and Italy, and you know, you will not be able to film for this amount of days. And I came back and was like, oh, we were flying back and forth between Hungary and Italy, and you will not be able to film for this amount of days. And I came back and was like, oh, I don't feel as clunky. How do I say this? Because I was so, even though I was communicating and I was working, I was saying somebody else's

lines. Different rhythm. Yeah. What does a typical day look like for you? So I wake up around 5.45 and I have one of those like hatch alarm like sunset alarm clocks, which I love so it eases me into the morning. Get up on weekdays. I don't often eat breakfast, which is a problem and I should work on that.

And it's usually like a quick grab and go once I get to the office to keep us stocked up, which is great. But I get in the car. I have a long commute now, I try to beat traffic. I also like the solace of coming into the office when nobody else is there and just being able to fully focus on the show. So usually- What time do you get in?

Actually end up getting there at anywhere between 720 and 745. And then I don't film the show until 930. And it used to be that Matt Walsh would get there before I do. Now I think he has an office at home that he can like go into, but it was kind of his private zone. He has six kids. He goes, like, I need to be able to get up in the morning

and just fully, both of us, write the bulk of our show in the morning before we go. I think Ben does it the night before, Michael, I think, does it the night before. But Matt and I, I think, perform best the night before, Michael, I think does it the night before, but Matt and I, I think perform best when it's fresh. Yes. And even if I've written a book of it the night before, like I'll often do the outline. I have the story in place, I would say 95% of the time.

I know what I'm going to be talking about, but I come in and it's like the finishing touches. Is there anything new? What does that look like? Is this a Google doc? Yes. Is this and it's outlines, it's bullet points, it's notes and links? Bullet points, yeah.

So I start with bullet points and links, go through all the stories, I'll often pull comments first because I don't want to be in the habit of picking and choosing the comments to shape the story. And sometimes I will do that and it's like, I want to prove a point, like, okay, this is happening, here's an example of somebody saying this. But for the most part, I want the actual comment section to drive the narrative. And then off of that, I'll like bounce off. Here's this, let's pull this in.

Start with the story, go find the comments, put it in a Google doc, links, comments. Here's the extra context that I'm gonna bring in. And then I usually go through, and at the beginning it's like, here's my thesis statement and my conclusion. That's what I start with. I was an English major in college.

It's like writing an essay, but it's a script. And so I know what I want to get across, and then I take the content that I've pulled into the Google Doc and I'm kind of like, work it. So like, does this make sense going here? Or should I hit this point first? And then it makes, you know, it's stronger to bring this in later. It's all story structuring. Again, like an essay, does, you know, this this point first? And then it makes, you know, it's stronger to bring this in later. It's all story structuring. Again, like an essay is, does, you know,

this paragraph come first? It's the, you know, what we all learn in high school of like you have the hamburger with your two buns and you've got the meat in the middle. And then I fill it out and some episodes are more written out than others. If there are ones that there's a lot of technicalities, if I'm talking about a lot of data,

if it's a more sensitive issue, I don't want to waste time in the studio going like, oh, you know. What is that thing? Yes. Hey, Reagan, can you go check this? Can you pull this data? Um, oh, I didn't like how I said this. I want to make sure like if it's, you know, sensitive, like I just did one about, um, Instagram's latest scandal that Wall Street Journal, um, did a report on, where Instagram, I mean, it's just the worst, Metta is the worst for children to be on.

A new report from Wall Street Journal just came out and said that not only are people under the age of 18 fed sexual content, they are fed more sexual content than adults on the platform. If you have a like under 18 account, if you say you're 13, 14 years old, you are fed a higher percentage of sexual content than adults. They know this, their internal reports say this, Wall Street Journal found it and then it was corroborated by internal employees,

met up time and time again, is saying, we're protecting kids, we're protecting kids. A year ago, in 2023, I did an episode, literally almost a year to the day, another Wall Street Journal report came out again about Instagram that their algorithm was helping connect a ring of pedophiles and that they were pushing child porn through and that they were doing nothing about it. And so meta comes out constantly, you know,

nobody under the age of 16 gets fed sexual content. This never happens. We have systems in place. They don't. Like they're being sued by the AG in New Mexico for this exact thing. They've gone before Congress to deal with this. So anyway, it's a very, very- Gotta get it right. Yes, and it's an intense subject matter,

not just because I wanna get it right, but also because I know that I have a younger audience. I know that I have parents to watch with their kids. The innocence of children is so vitally important to me. And I think that it is something that our society has just completely forgotten about and doesn't seem to care about. Do you swear?

I've ever heard you swear. Oh, I do, yeah. Do you? Yeah. My mother wishes I didn't, but I do. All right, so you've got that 939.45, record the show. Yes, yes. So I put all that together,

it depends on the episode, whether it's more written out than others. So I put all that together, depends on the episode, whether it's more written out than others. So again, like that one was, you know, I wanna make sure I'm hitting every single thing. I wanna make sure I'm saying this and I'm, I don't wanna waste my words. I would rather speak less and make sure that it is very specific.

So I'm not gonna just improv it. At the beginning of comment section, when we first started the show, I had no script. I would just pull topics and it was just me riffing. Took a long time, it was cool. And I think I'm glad that I started that way because it got me into a better habit of, can I think on my feet?

Can I speak on my feet? But now I wanna make sure that it's very, I'm punching when I speak. So I work on that for an hour, I put the finishing touches on there, adapt the story if need be, if some new development has happened overnight, because a lot of things happen at night on the internet

because that's when people are awake without sleeping, spending those extra two hours on the internet. And then I go into hair and makeup and do that for about an hour and then go into the show at 9.30. And then we film anywhere from 9.30 to 11. And then after that, it really depends on- And that's both segments? Mm-hmm. You have to do them back to back. And then we'll do reactions that go on YouTube Shorts. I'll have a social team come in and they'll say,

hey, you keep being tagged in this video on TikTok. Do you want to stitch it and react to it? So they'll put a phone in front of me and I'm like, oh, okay, this is crazy. And then I react to it? So they'll like put a phone in front of me and I'm like, oh, okay, this is crazy. And then I, you know, react to it. I'll also take that time if I have social media things that I want to do independently. I usually do that right after the show.

And then after that, it really depends on, you know, do you have meetings? You have to meet with your team about a new video that you're doing, a new off the clock video or strategy meeting. Do you have to meet, you know, PR about this? Or do you need to go talk with Jeremy about Pendragon? Do I have a live stream for on Daily Wire? We do all access lives just so you're from you're a member. Then you get to come to a live stream with us and you

know unbridled access, all access. So after that 11 o'clock hour, it's very up in the air. And so some days I'm done and I get to go home and, you know, work on the farm and work on the script for the next day. And some days I'm, you know, down in Nashville until 6 PM working on whatever it is that they need me to do. How much time are you caught up doing admin operation stuff, emails, back and forth, Slack, any of that bullshit? Used to be a lot more, not, not very much anymore. Um, my admin stuff is more so high level things with my team

of strategy, let's pitch this, let's try this, could we get this person? It's usually me communicating to them what I want. And then they're like, all right, we'll go and execute it or talking with ad sales, but I really want this brand, can we adapt this, can we do this, can we figure out a way to fit them in? And so it's very creative, cool stuff.

And what's an evening look like? Go home. I usually cook dinner for Alex and I, and we will work on projects that we have at the house. So we just bought this farm. And so, you know, he's out every day building fences, mending things. We should eat in more, but we...

We love going out to eat. My producer actually lives very close to me, and so we spend a lot of time with her and her husband, which I love. So we have a pretty vibrant social life. I try to get a workout in before I leave Nashville. Again, just so that everything, both of us, do, Alex tries to get it done

before I get home, so he kind of knows, like, all right, this is a long day for you, like, can I go work out at five instead of three or whatever? So we try to get all of that stuff done so that when we get home, it's just like, we actually have time together. Um, yeah, it really depends on the day. What time is bedtime if you're getting up at 5 45? Oh gosh, I would love it to be like 8 30. By 8 30, you can't get me out of the day. What time is bedtime if you're getting up at 5.45? Oh gosh, I would love it to be like 8.30. By 8.30, you can't get me out of the house.

It is rare. If it's like, Brett, you want to go out and go, I mean, a couple of weeks ago, my friends were like, let's go line dancing. And we got there at nine. And it was like, oh, guys, this is really, this is a stretch. It's actually not living farther away.

It's like, it's now, I'm, you know, I've got an hour drive back home from this place. But usually around 8.30 or nine, Brett is moisturized with her towel. She is in her pajamas. She is in bed, either reading, working on the show, do not move her, do not touch her. She's not getting out to go to dinner anytime past 8.30. And then usually like actually asleep by 10 or 11. But I am like in the confines of my home by 8.30.

That's like a sacred time. I haven't heard you talk about faith all that much. What's, how big of a role does that play in your life? It grows by the day, which kind of surprises me actually. That was not something that I expected. My father is Episcopalian and so he loves high church. I don't know what that is. That sounds like the diet that people, where are they only eat fish?

Oh yes, and Pescetarian, he has very similar. The way that it is often described in colloquial terms is like Catholic light. It has become sadly and much to his sadness, a very, very progressive denomination. Like if you're driving around Nashville and you see pride flags and trans flags, it's probably the Episcopalians with their female priests. So he is very, very Episcopalian. My mom has kind of wavered in her faith,

no real denomination. And we went to like a very hippie dippy church. I would go back and forth Her faith, no real denomination. And we went to like a very hippy dippy church. I would go back and forth between very structured, high church, and then she went to a church called Unity. And it was like, there were Christians there, there were Jewish people there, people who were Buddhist. I mean, you just went there and you basically prayed

and they would read from the Bible. It was very, very super hippie. And I saw growing up spending a significant portion of my childhood in Tennessee, I saw very stereotypical Southern Christians, which I hate saying, but I saw people that made their faith more of an identity and a badge of honor

than something they actually believed and were walking. I saw a lot of hypocrisy, especially in my extended family of people who I was told are the, you know, they are the best Christians. Like they, you know, really walk their faith. I was like, why are you, why do you treat our family like this? And why, why do you act like this?

And so I kind of left that behind when we, uh, my mom and I moved to Los Angeles, which we went back and forth. I would spend half the year with her there, half the year with my dad at home. I kind of all fell apart. We never really went to church there. But one friend in Hollywood, growing up,

you know, in this, my like child actor friend group, one also from the South, was a Christian. He was the only one that didn't have his faith stomped out of him, who stayed very consistent, who walked the walk every single day. And he started bringing me to church with him when I was about 16 years old. There was a lot going on with my, um... My family, my parents' divorce was in full swing at that point.

I have a brother that's schizophrenic. And he was homeless at the time, and I was, like, taking care of him. At 16. Um... It was a lot of... A lot of stress. He was homeless at the time and I was like taking care of him at 16. It was a lot of stress. And I had started doing therapy at that time, which was helpful in some ways. But this friend of mine was like, you need something else. And so I'm going to take, whether you like it or not, we're going to go to church on

Sunday morning. I would sit in some of these sermons and just like, ball. Not understanding what was being told to me. I didn't understand the context of what they were talking because I had never read the Bible in full. You know, I'd been in Sunday school, but I never sat down. I had never done the work and would just be like, I just, I'm missing something.

And even then I didn't like fully take the step, but that was kind of always in the back of my head. And then went to college, there was no religious anything, no faith at UCLA, at least in my world, and very little in Hollywood obviously. And came to Nashville and was again just like, I'm back in the place that left such a bad taste in my mouth about faith and Christianity specifically. But I dipped my toe back in the water and I've made it more of an integral part of my life.

It is humbling in so many ways because it's such a journey. There's so much that I think that I have to learn and so many literal, like, leaps of faith that you have to take. Um... I think, you know, a lot of people talk about, you know, the husband is the head of the household. You look to him, I think it's been really wonderful that Alex was taking that we were on a similar journey

of, you know, he was raised in a denomination that he wasn't really like, I don't know if I'm gonna stick with this. And so when we started dating, he was on a similar journey of, you know, he was raised in a denomination that he wasn't really like, I don't know if I'm gonna stick with this. And so when we started dating, he was on a similar, like I'm going to find what I believe, where I land, I'm gonna find good people. And so it was very easy to slip into that and go, you know, I can trust you, follow you, we're on this together.

So that's kind of still where I am. I went through, I did some RCIA, which is the education that you go through to convert to Catholicism, because I was really, really interested in Catholicism. It seems very akin to the Episcopalian church that I would go to with my father. I love the structure, love the high church, but without the wokeness, obviously, and the kind of compromising on their values and what the Bible says and what the church believes. Um, and I put that on pause when I went to Budapest and haven't fully started that up again, and I'm not really sure where I landed that I'm still really

interested in Catholicism, but I don't think I'm at a point yet in my education where I can, you know, make that leap to say, I'm going to, this is what I'm going to be, I'm, you know, I I'm going to be, I'm gonna continue this and be confirmed. And it's also kind of going back to what we were talking about, about having a public and a personal life. Faith is something that very,

people have a lot of opinions on. People are obviously very concerned with you coming to faith. There's a lot of, you know, it's wonderful. And, you know, we're praying for you. We want you to come over here. They care a lot. And I think it all comes from a good place, but it is so personal.

And when you're on your own journey and you're taking it step by step and you're exploring all of these different things, you're kind of unlearning the stuff that you unlearned as a child and the things that you saw and the impressions that you had of faith. It's very personal. And I also never wanna jump on my platform and be like, I learned this today about Catholicism and I'm doing that. I know nothing.

I am truly a student right now. And so that might make some people uncomfortable because it's like, we wanna know, we want, you know. It's like, you'll know when you know and I'll know when I know. There's a big Christian revival happening in the moment, which I think you'll have probably been tracking as well. So many people, I mean, Russell Brand recently got baptized. Jordan is being much more open about his faith. Constantine Kissin is talking about it a lot. Tucker Carlson went full

creationist mode. You know, there's varying degrees of belief. And yeah, I wonder whether, what's that, you'll know this, that Latin mass thing that loads of young people are going to. Yes, yep. Where the entire thing, unless you speak Latin, you're not gonna be able to understand any of it. So it's evident that there is sort of odd horseshoeing back around, you know, atheism kind of-

I credit all of that to Michael Knowles. I mean, every day, I mean, the reason why I wanted to explore Catholicism was because I loved Michael so much. It was like, you make this sound so incredible. He's just amazing. And he goes to Latin Mass every Sunday. That's where you'll find him. But yeah, no, there is a, I mean, there literally is a revival. There were revivals at Southern schools in 2023 that just kept popping up of, you know, people traveling from all over the country because there was just something going on in these rooms and people were, you know, singing and worshiping for like five days on end.

People were just being like called to this, like, I'm not even a Christian and I, you know, I need to, I need to be here. I'm going to drive to Alabama to be at this revival. Is this happening on TikTok? Is this a Gen Z thing? How much is this broken through? It's in Christian sex, it has broken through. It isn't like a TikTok like trend to have a revival.

It was, you know, events happening at college campuses and workshops that were happening and they just never stopped. And they just grew and grew and grew beyond the school, beyond the student body, they had people traveling. So I think it is not just the celebrities searching. It's not just these public figures. It's also, I think it is not just the celebrities searching, it's not just these public figures, it's also, I think that,

I think that kind of goes back to the cynicism that we were talking about with Gen Z of, they've put their faith in politicians, they've put their faith in celebrities, they've put their faith in the environment and climate, and they've started to worship this planet and, you know, rather than a God, I've turned that into a God and that hasn't panned out and that hasn't been fulfilling obviously, and it only leads to more doom and gloom.

And I think they look at the world around them and they go, what am I living for? Like, what is, what's the purpose? What am I being guided by? What principles do I have? Especially when family is being derogated. You don't need to have children. Mm-hmm. Just- You're just floating.

Yeah. Work like your father and have sex like your brother. You'll be fine. Yeah. And you, um, and they're being, you know, bopped around to different current things. Like that's all that, you know, I'm, I'm living for this social issue. I'm living for this now because this is now trendy. There's nothing tethering so many young people. And so I would guess that that's a big, I mean, that was for me as well. And I'm not, you know, being bounced around to the current thing, but I think having a pretty

tumultuous childhood, being at a pretty tumultuous industry where every day I'm, you know, have to keep up with things, stay on top of it. I see a lot of really disturbing, terrible things about the internet, you know, have to keep up with things, stay on top of it. I see a lot of really disturbing, terrible things about the internet. Some things I choose to cover, some things I don't about like horrific child predators, the way that our, you know, big tech organizations are promoting this, the insane stuff that's happening on the left.

I'm in that on a day-to-day basis. And being able to have something else that's, you know, guiding you and moving you forward, something that is bigger than yourself. I mean, it's so important. Family and faith is a degree of stability then. Yeah. There's a study that I wanted to teach you about, which you kind of related to this. So this is probably one of the coolest studies

that I've learned about this year. So it's called the Ties That Blind, Misperceptions of the Opponent Fringe and the Miscalibration of Political Contempt. So one of the reasons that there is a lot of political polarization is that most sides dislike their opponents for beliefs that they don't hold. And this obviously fuels an awful lot

because it sounds more extreme. And there's an interesting stat that out-party hate has emerged as a stronger force than in-party love. So around about 2012, it was Obama 2012, people said that they disliked their opponents more than they liked their own side. So much of politics is kind of a, it's a protest vote against something that they aren't. And it's six stages that they found of how people progress through this. So the first one is that both sides exaggerate the other side's extreme views. So people on the left assume that all people on the right are racists that want police

officers that shoot black people to have fewer consequences. And all people on the right assume that people on the left want everybody to get an abortion and for everyone to be trans and to have a weak military. And when you actually poll both sides, that's not the case. But most people hold very moderate views and most people on both sides would agree with the other side. So most people on the left want to have a strong military and most people on the right are fine with gay guys getting married. This is what's called false polarization. So it's polarization that is assumed but inaccurate. So you have this first stage,

which is extreme views that are inaccurate. Second point is that this leads to disliking of the other side. Makes sense if you believe that this person has a false interpretation, you judge them as this crazy extremist. Not true, inaccurate, right? So you have extremism that's inaccurate, leading to

disliking and then disliking leads to avoidance. And the avoidance bit is really interesting because this, never interacting with someone who holds different views to you, because you assume they're going to be really extreme, they're not, causes you to never actually have your inaccurate assumptions corrected, right? And then just snowballs. Correct. Yeah. So, you're less likely to share a taxi with them, shake hands with them,

have your son or daughter marry them. I think two thirds of left-leaning parents would fear their son or daughter marrying a Republican. Like, so you just have this huge divergence and obviously being unwilling to have a conversation with a political rival means that your inaccuracies are never going to be corrected. And then what this also causes is both sides being reluctant to criticize their own sides extreme views. So if you misperceive how common your own sides extreme views are, no, not that

many people think that children should take hormone blockers at eight years old or no, not that many people believe that you should ban abortions for all reasons across the entire United States or whatever it might be. It's like, no, they are there. And the assumption that they're not. Another part is there's an incentive to not appear disloyal. And I guess their hatred and fear of the other side galvanizes them to maybe kind of turn a little bit of a blind eye to what's going on. So that's the fourth stage. Fifth stage is that, well, one question would be how is this fueled? And partisan media does fuel this quite a lot because it doesn't show a balanced perspective

by design. You know, 50 years ago, if there's two news stations, you need to just deliver to everybody. But now when you can pick and choose your own custom designed news station because you're competing with 200 others, including independent creators, you can find the exact story or the exact niche

that you can speak to. Yeah, precisely. I mean, it's like what you were saying about, you know, with big mainstream media now, their fodder is the other side. They're not creating news, creating culture, they are, and not even talking about their own sides, it is, what is this insane person doing?

That literally is the fodder for them, yeah. Yeah, and then final one, political polarization leads to greater acceptance of unethical tactics. So if you suspect that the other side is doing something which is unspeakable, then you're like, ah yeah, but you know, look at what they did. Turn a blind eye to the protest or the riot or the whatever it is that someone does.

And yeah, I just think this like vicious cycle of increasingly anti-democratic uncaring behavior gets explained an awful lot. And the beautiful thing that I like about this particular study is that it all comes from one genesis, which is a misunderstanding of the other side's extreme beliefs. If you can correct that, everything downstream from that gets fixed. Now, that's not easy. It's not a small thing to do, but I do think that if you have a more delicate or nuanced take about things, that trying to be a reasonable voice, it actually, to me, that sort of emboldened

me that a lot of the time I'll get criticized for being like so bigoted from the left that I'm a misogynist and so cucked from the right that I'm a soy boy. You can't win. Yeah, but threading the needle like that to me, I think that shows that if you can continue to show the best of both sides and why there's degrees of agreement that well, that's actually doing a lot of good.

So yeah, that was the ties, the blind was one of the best studies I've found recently. I think that that's something that I think about a lot. And kind of going back to, you know, when you asked, what do you think that the show was successful? And I talked about humor of being able to just point out to normal people that are sitting at home going, man, both of you people, like both sides are just really insane.

Like you are, there's a lot of chaos happening and being able to find humor and common sense through it. That's kind of my touchstone is always finding that versus just always picking a side. Have you found since moving to Daily Wire, obviously there's degrees of purity within the organization. Have you felt the temptation or the needs to socially adhere to guys that are further right than you. Obviously, you've got these people that you respect them, they're ambassadors, they've got all of this success and they're kind of your boss or at least your colleague. Is that something you've been conscious of where trying to hold on to

you, to anchor you as opposed to getting pulled further right? I think I did at first just because I was so nervous and I didn't want to screw up the opportunity. Starry-eyed. Yes, and you know, they're so incredible, all this stuff and they are, and I, you know, one of the great things about, you know, the people that I work with is, you know,

I disagree with Matt on some things, I disagree with Michael on some things, I disagree with Jeremy and Ben, you know, but we all have common values that we are tethered to and I massively respect the work that they all do and I know that they feel the same with me so we have that baseline but definitely when I started I was like I you know I need to thread the needle not that I was saying things that I didn't believe but I was like I'm gonna be a little more political and I want to you

know hit on these things and I'm gonna talk about Biden saying this and this and lean in more, I guess. And as time has gone on and I've become far more comfortable and confident in my voice and also learning firsthand what you just talked about in that study of, oh, maybe some of these, not that these takes, but the way that I'm speaking about this issue,

maybe that's not the most productive or healthy way. Contributing to the problem a little bit, yeah. And is there a way that I can thread the needle, not dilute my values or what I want to say, but articulate it in a way and bring in both sides so that I'm not alienating people? So that I am, because my goal is number one, to make people who share my values, who were me five years ago, not feel insane or alone. Like, looking around the world,

going nobody at my school thinks the way that I do, I feel crazy. Say, no, you're not. There are other people, I have 4 million subscribers, we're all here. We agree. And then also reaching to the other side and saying, you know, we're also not crazy.

Like there are things we'll be able to agree upon. Putting forward the best, most acceptable version of this, the most reasonable. Yes. Yeah, I mean, so few people have been convinced of anything by being patronized or mocked, right? There's this idea of the soft signal of effectiveness, which is basically if you really care about convincing

the other side of anything that you believe in, you'd actually take the opportunity to dial back the vitriol. And that's a price that you need to pay because you think this is fucking insane and these people and blah, blah. Okay, if you actually care about changing minds and you understand an iota of how human psychology works,

you're not going to try and make them feel stupid or insane. You're actually going to dial that down and say, look, let me bring you along for the ride. Here's a couple of ideas that I think are really, really important and here's a gentle way to deliver it to you. And I'm aware that it's not as sexy as being a flame wielding, truth telling fire brand, but I think that it changes minds more effectively. It does.

It's more palatable. And you know, I love Ben and I love facts, you know, don't care about your feelings. And that's true, but also a lot of people's feelings don't care about your facts. And if you can't reach them at that emotional level, especially with my generation who is, oh my gosh, so emotional, so emotional.

If you can't meet them there and touch those emotions and give them a reason to give a crap about what you're talking about, you will not change Gen Z's mind. You will not. I put this in my newsletter today. Stories don't care about your statistics. In a controlled experiment,

researchers documented a pronounced story statistic gap in memory. The average impact of statistics on beliefs fades by 73% over the course of a day. The impact of a story fades by only 32%. So in short, people's beliefs are more durably impacted by stories and statistics, which has a huge implication for how voters' beliefs can be more easily swayed during upcoming elections. That's so good. I completely agree. And that's again, going back to you asking, how do you

structure the show? How do you decide what you're going to hit? It's like, going back to you were asking, how do you structure the show? How do you decide what you're gonna hit? It's like, if I'm talking about these social issues, these TikTok trends, whatever, if you watch the show, there's a lot of the time when I start with a celebrity TikTok, whatever, here's the social thing that's happening. Let's back this up with some facts,

knowing that that's not gonna be what people remember. But in the moment, my goal is to go, hey, it's not just this random person. It's not whatever, here are the things to back it up. And then we go back into the story that is much more emotionally compelling that made me interested in it in the first place. Cause I didn't get interested in this story

or this current event that's happening because of the facts. And because, I mean, yes, the facts, but because of the stats and the fact that- There's an emotional connection. Yes. It's like, I was not interested in the story about meta serving sexual content to teens

because they are, you know, the very minute stats of, you know, 2.7 times more likely, whatever. That was not the reason why I was invested. The headline of, you know, they are feeding this to children, they are not pulling back, there are solutions in place, ways that they could mitigate this and they are feeding this to children. They are not pulling back. There are solutions in place, ways that they could mitigate this and they're choosing not to.

And children are now at risk and 13 year old girls are getting unsolicited dick pics. They are seeing only fans models within three minutes of going on Instagram, just creating an account. Within three to 20 minutes, that is what drew me in. And then when I get down in the article, I'm like, oh my gosh, these stats are literally insane.

But as you just saw, I don't remember the actual stats of what it is. How do you remain upbeat given that that's your disposition, but that's also the way that you presumably want to live as well. Yeah. You don't want to be dour, but there's generalized cynicism amongst your generation. There's also an awful lot of very disempowering

and scary stories that you cover. What is your process for remaining positive some and hopeful for the future that you wish more people knew? I believe that there is a future worth saving. Again, going back to what I said about, with all of our problems, with all the cynicism, we still do live in objectively the best time in all of history. The most advanced, again, the most healthy, the richest.

Just remembering that, I think, is a perspective shift. I think that there's a lot to live for. There's a lot in my personal life that I'm very excited about. The news and current events in the show, such a small percentage of who I am and what I think about on a daily basis. If you calculated the amount that I think about having babies, oh my God, it would completely outweigh, you know, the TikTok trends that I think about.

And I also think that being such a priority to me and being something that I'm so interested in, I mean, having children is the most hopeful action that you can do. You're saying like, I believe that there's a world for you. I believe that you can change the world for a better place. I believe that I have the power to help mold and shape the next generation. That is an insanely hopeful thing.

So the fact that that's such, you know, an important thing in my life is something that I'm so excited to do. I think that continues to drive me. I also know that a lot of our own problems and a lot of the problems that we face are our own doing. The only thing that I can really control in the world when I'm doing these stories and when we're absorbing social media and current events, you can't control

what's happening in the world. You can control your response though. And I would rather respond in a way that is productive, that is empowered, that is not doom and gloom. Goes back to the dating stuff of, yeah, it's a fricking mess and people don't understand the nuances and online dating is absolutely like, out of this world dumb and it's addictive and these apps are designed

to keep you on them and they want to keep you single. Like that's all a mess, you can't control that. You can control how you operate within that world. You can control the way that you respond to these news articles and always putting it back on yourself and your personal responsibility and the fact that you control all of that. You control what goes on in your home,

in your private space. That makes life worth living to me. That makes life exciting. That makes life worth living to me. That makes life exciting. That makes me, you know, every day want to get up and produce a great show and want to change minds. Because I can control that. I can do that.

I don't have to just sit and wallow, oh, my generation's so screwed. They're lazy, they're terrible. It's like, okay, let me try to change that. Because obviously I made a change in my personal life. I went from literally not speaking and being so awkward. And I almost did not take the job at Daily Wire because I was so scared.

I didn't even want to send in my tape. They're like, hey, could you react to a couple of stories just so we can see how you are on camera with some of these. I almost did not send it in. I had recorded it and I was petrified. I was like, I'm not good enough. I'm not, I just don't want to, I'm,

this is too big of a fight. I don't want to get out there. I'm petrified. I was like, I'm not good enough. I'm not, I just don't want to, this is too big of a fight. I don't want to get out there. I'm not ready yet. Took my mom literally yelling at my face. Saying this one, this opportunity will never come again. Stop being a wimp. Like get your act together. I want to meet your mom.

She's insane. She's amazing. She sounds great. She's perfect. And I mean, a lot of it comes from the way that she raised us. I mean, radical personal responsibility. And I think people see responsibility and personal responsibility and accountability

for yourself and your actions as very daunting and uncomfortable, and it is, but it's also the most freeing thing that you'll do for yourself. If you realize that your life is your fault, there's nothing that Candice always says, your life is your fault. You will be so much happier. You will be so much happier.

You will be so much more empowered because suddenly you have all of the options in front of you. And if you choose to not take that risk, to not go after that girl, not go after the job, not speak to that person, it is your fault. And so you can either be really pissed at yourself and have a lot of regrets, or you can say, I at least, I swung for the fences

and I did it. And that can be huge life things in terms of your career and marriage and all of that, but can also be just the way that you wake up in the morning and approach the world. I also think that humor is so underrated and because of the dilution of comedy, I think that we have lost the art of laughing at the absurd.

And so I've loved bringing that back in a lot of ways and allowing people to have like a safe space where they can laugh at this stuff, no matter what side of the political aisle you're on. And that makes it more fun and enjoyable because I get excited to get up every day and crack jokes and hopefully make people laugh. Um, so yeah, it's all of that.

But I'm a very hopeful person. I'm a very positive person. Um, I'm a very helpful person. I'm a very positive person. I'm not like a, I wouldn't say I'm like a starry-eyed rainbows and unicorns. I'm still a realist, but I know that there are certain things that are in all of our control. And at the end of the day, if you're coming home and you hate your life, there's probably things you can do to make it better.

And I'd rather like always live in that space. I've come constantly going, what can I do to make it better. And I'd rather like always live in that space. I've come constantly going, what can I do to make the situation better? I'm unhappy. What do I need to fix? What do I need to do? I get so empowering. Hell yeah. Brett Cooper.

I appreciate you. Let's bring this one into land. Where should people go? They want to check out all of the things you're doing and what can they expect what's coming up next? So we, you can find me at the comment section with Brett Cooper on YouTube. We also just launched on Spotify, which was crazy. Congratulations. So you can find me at the comment section with Brett Cooper on YouTube. We also just launched on Spotify, which was crazy. Congratulations.

Thank you. We now have video and audio on Spotify. So you can find us there. You can find me on literally every social media platform. I am in the underbelly of all of them. And we have a lot of exciting things coming up. I dipped my toe back into acting with Daily Wire, which has been a really enjoyable experience.

It's been fun to work with people who actually share my values, who I trust. Kind of like we were talking about, not wanting to be a shell for somebody's message that you don't agree with. It's like, I feel like I'm doing something that I care about and telling a story that I love. And so, Pendragon was an amazing experience.

That'll be coming out. I don't know when, but hopefully soon. I know that they're working on it. It's an amazing story. Obviously we announced Snow White. that's in the works. We have launched, you know, we've taken some big swings at the company. You know, we just launched Bircham.

I'm in a lot of the Ben Key productions. They keep me busy and excited to see, just in a general sense, the brand of Brett Cooper, which is so weird to think of yourself as a brand, obviously, which I know, you know, it's so weird to like look at yourself, but I think what people can expect is that there will be Brett Cooper, which is so weird to think of yourself as a brand, obviously, which I know, you know, it's so weird to like look at yourself. But I think what people can expect is that there will be growth as I continue to grow.

And that's what I'm excited about, to continue taking them along with me so that it's, you know, they know that I am not just the girl behind the camera. I'm like, I'm a malleable human being that's growing alongside all of you. And I'm excited to see how that impacts the show and my work and all of it. Damn right. I appreciate you. Thank you. I'm glad to be here. Thanks for having me.