Money Crimes with Nicole Lapin - An Online Affair, a Fake Identity, and a Murder That Shocked the Internet

Episode Date: May 27, 2026

In 2005, a married factory worker reinvented himself online, and fell hard for a girl he’d never met. When “Tommy,” “Jessi,” and a coworker named Brian became tangled in a toxic digital love triangle, jealousy exploded into real-world violence. Sabrina and Corinne uncover the TalHotBlond case, where fantasy blurred into obsession… and one lie led to another until a man wound up dead. For more, follow Crimes Of wherever you listen to podcasts: https://pod.link/1838511303 For Ad-free listening to episodes, subscribe to Crime House+ on Apple Podcasts.  🎧 Need More to Binge?  Listen to other Crime House Originals Clues, Crimes Of…, Crime House 24/7, Serial Killers & Murderous Minds, Murder True Crime Stories, and more wherever you get your podcasts! Follow me on Social Instagram: @Crimehouse TikTok: @Crimehouse Facebook: @crimehousestudios X: @crimehousemedia YouTube: @crimehousestudios To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi listeners, it's Vanessa. Before we get into today's episode, I want to tell you about another show I think you'll love. Hidden History with Dr. Harini Bot. Every Monday, Dr. Bot goes where history gets mysterious. Vanished civilizations, doomsday prophecies, paranormal phenomena, and events that science still can't fully explain. Dr. Bot treats these moments like open case files, not myths, not superstition, just incomplete explanations. waiting for a closer look. Hidden History drops every Monday. Follow now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen, so you never miss a mystery.

This is Crime House. Hey, we're back with everyone's favorite survival relationship game. Red flag? Green flag. Have we given a green flag yet? No. Over the past three episodes, I don't know. It was one that we were like, it could be a green flag given depending on the situation. Yeah, yeah, beige flag. So if you are out there dating, maybe this might save a life. Seriously, because today we are talking about a case where online dating turned deadly. This is the case of tall, hot blonde. The catfish who sparked an internet love triangle so tangled with lies, jealousy, and ego,

it ultimately ended in murder. So we're going to share a couple scenarios that happened for real in this case, and we'll vote red flag or green flag. You can vote too. You're allowed to play. Yeah. Me, a collective. Yes.

All of us. Mommies. The Mommies. I'll start. Okay. Red flag or green flag. You meet someone online who seems like the perfect match. They're sexy, emotionally open, perhaps a little dangerous.

And within a few weeks of knowing one another, only online, they tell you they got your name tattooed on their arm. red flag green flag red flag totally red flag but i've also gotten a name tattooed on my arm i know but but the only online part that separated and i did it very quickly but i also think red flag for me so that's also why i stare to you for a while so it's like are you going to answer this like what am i supposed to say red flag i've i've had red flag behaviors Moving on Okay You get into a fight

With your partner And instead of apologizing With you know like words They send you a package With their underwear inside Red flag Red flag Also like that would so not be an apology

Coming from me either Because once I was introduced to maternity underwear I never went back I am wearing They're up to my boobs That would be like a doubling down known for you if you sent your underwear. It's hate mail, I think.

Yeah. So both of ours were red flags. Yeah. And in this case, they were not hypotheticals for us to vote red flag or green flag. No. Thomas Montgomery did claim to tattoo Jesse's name on his arm weeks after meeting online.

And Jesse, aka tall, hot blonde, did mail him her underwear after getting in an argument. That's just how their relationship went. And for a while, it worked. But pretty quickly, things turned toxic. Jesse started flirting with someone else, and Thomas couldn't let her go. No, he wouldn't let her go. He was in too deep. He would do anything to make his fantasy a reality. Welcome to Crimes of Passion, a crime house original powered by Pave Studios,

where your hosts, Sabrina Deanna Roga and Corinne Vienne. Every Tuesday, we're exploring a different corner of the true crime universe, examining cases that left a permanent impact on society. This season, we're stepping into the world of romance, where love turns to obsession, where logic slips away, and raw emotion pushes people past the point of return. If you're loving crimes love, please follow, rate and review us wherever you listen. It helps us build this community, and we love hearing from you. Plus, to get early access and ad-free listening, subscribe to the Crimehouse Plus community on Apple Podcasts. And you can catch us on YouTube where we include visuals that bring every case to life. Today we're talking about the tall, hot blonde gays, one of the earliest and most infamous

catfishing stories to ever make national news and where an online love triangle turned into a real-life murder. In 2005, 46-year-old Thomas Montgomery started chatting online on a forum called pogo.com under an alias. Soon he met an 18-year-old girl named Jesse, whose screen name was Tall, Hot, Blonde, Big 50. Things got steamy very quickly. And what started as an online fantasy quickly turned into obsession, jealousy, and eventually, violence. As investigators would later discover, nothing about this case was as it seemed online.

Everyone had secrets. A quick warning before we begin, this episode includes mentions of gun violence, suicidal ideation, and murder. The tall hot blonde case is a lot. A lot. It's a story about fantasy and deception. and what happens when someone takes an online world way too seriously. But it's also about people who get caught in the middle. And that is where a 22-year-old Brian Barrett comes in.

Brian ended up in the middle of an intense online romance between Thomas Montgomery and his girlfriend, Jesse, aka tall, hot blonde. And when the relationship moved from the internet into the real world, things got dangerous. And tragically, Brian is the one who paid the price. It is a wild case, and I cannot wait to see. you through it all. But as we're talking about catfishing, Corinne, you need to tell everyone the story about when you were catfished. I got catfished and it was, it was such a thrill. Okay. It's 2018.

Yeah. I'm on hinge. I'm one day into talking to someone. And I'm like, this kind of feels like catfish. But like the person was so cute on their profile, but I was like, things are just not adding up And like things are a little weird. And it was the time where you could see where people were when it said like location every time they opened up their app. It like would say what town they were in. And it was like nothing was adding up. And so I literally said, you're a catfish. And they're like, no, I'm not.

No, no, no, no, no. And me and two of my girlfriends, we were all in grad school, different schools here in Boston. I told them about it. We were like, we have to catch the catfish. So I basically for two more days was like, oh, no. We need to meet up and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and set a date for us to go get breakfast. And I hid, like, in a restaurant across from where we were supposed to meet, which was at this, like, statue in Somerville in Davis Square, Massachusetts. Yep.

And the guy kept saying he was late. He was late. He was late. He was late. He was late. But he was going to come. And also, he had a, all of his text bubbles were green, so I knew he didn't have an iPhone. That's red flag number one.

Yeah. I told him I was sitting next to that statue. And I'm like looking from the crate place, watching the statue. And maybe like 20 minutes, 30 minutes after we were supposed to meet, a much, much older man, like Santa Claus beard, huge gut, starts walking towards there. And I see him see a girl who actually sat down next to the statue who looked a lot like me from the back. That poor girl. Dark hair. And he stops and he pauses and he's like a little bit frozen.

And I see him like take out his phone, which was like a Samsung or something. It wasn't an apple. And then, like, texts and, like, looks to see if the girl will react. Oh. But, like, doesn't. And then I see him slowly walk up, and he's, like, scanning and looking. So scary. And turns to see her.

And it wasn't me. And then the scariest part of this was that he looks up. And then he starts going around this square, looking in all the windows of the restaurants. And I started panic. So I ran to the bathroom and hid in the bathroom for, like, 20 minutes until I got out and ran to the But I caught the catfish and it was... You were quick. Yeah.

It was an older... Older man. Much older man. It was like a 60 year old. So wild. It was crazy because just like a couple more details of like how I knew it was actually catfish. I like demanded that he sent me a picture of his dog that was in his profile picture. He sent me a picture of a different dog.

And in that I could see his hand. I literally said that's an old man hand. You literally said that? Yes. And then I called him. I do miss... And he picked up, hello? Like doing a fake voice.

I'm glad that you're married and have this beautiful little family that you've started. But I do miss the days where you were dating because like the stories you had were wild. I had really bad luck. But amazing stories. Amazing stories. So I've never been catfished, but I have catfished. What? No, but it's the context of it is my mom did so much online dating and I was worried about her.

So I put together a presentation of why online dating was dangerous. And in order to do so, I created a fake profile. on plenty of fish.com. And I never like in like I literally let people message me. I never like responded or anything. Okay. I didn't. I created a catfish account to then prove to my mom how dangerous online dating can be.

Wow. She did not take my advice. Damn. Well, here you have the catfish and the catfish. But this is a case where it becomes a lot more dangerous and there is a lot to unpack. And I think the scariest part, even with your situation where you were catfish or where I was catfishing, like, it's so easy to become someone else online. Right. And like the flirtation of something too, like people can get swept away and then you start ignoring all of the red flags that can come up in a conversation. Yeah. And then sometimes you do meet in person and it can be very dangerous. So let's get into the case.

All right. In 2005, 46-year-old Thomas Montgomery was living a person. pretty routine suburban life. He was married with two kids with the same job he'd had for years. The monotony of his life had him feeling restless and lonely. So he turned to the internet as a place for escape. And it was there that he met Jesse. She was 18, blonde, beautiful, and crazy about him. At least that's how it looked from behind the screen.

Their conversations escalated quickly. And Thomas wasn't just flirting. he was building an entire fantasy around someone he'd never actually met. Thomas knew that they were meant to be together, and not just online, but in real life too. But fantasies don't last in reality, especially when another man enters the picture. Terrified of losing the one thing that made him feel alive, Thomas took matters into his own hands. Think about some of the cases that defined true crime in America. Ted Bundy, Jeffrey Dahmer, the kidnapping of Elizabeth Smart, the Karen retrial.

Some crime cases are so shocking. They don't just make headlines they forever change a country. I'm Katie Ring, host of America's most infamous crimes. Each week, I take on one of the most notorious criminal cases, whether it's unfolding now or etched into American history, revealing not just what happened, but how it forever changed their society. Serial killers who terrorized cities. Unsolved mysteries that kept detectives

up at night and investigations that change the way we think about justice. Each case unfolds across multiple episodes, released every Tuesday through Thursday, from the first sign that something was wrong to the moment the truth came out or didn't. These are the stories behind the headlines. Listen to and follow America's most infamous crimes available now wherever you get your podcast. Thomas Montgomery sits hunched over the family computer, the glow from the monitor casting a pale blue light across the room. It's late.

later than it should be, but Thomas isn't ready for bed yet. He needs a distraction. See, life has become predictable, bland. Wake up, shift at the factory, home, dinner with his kids and wife. Sleep, wake up, repeat. He is on autopilot, and there is an emptiness eating away at him. Sure, he loves his family. He has a good job, and from the outside, everything looks fine.

But inside, he feels like. he's fading into the background of his own life. So tonight, he browses for an online distraction and logs into pogo.com, a place to play games and to kill time, and a place to chat with others online. Thomas's username is Marine Sniper. He remembers the time he thought it up, feeling like the name, albeit not totally accurate, made him feel stronger. Closer to the man he used to be back in his Marine Corps days.

He plays a couple games before joining a game. chat room and it is filled with strangers. Usernames like Bowling Guy 69 and Kitty Kitty Meow Meow. These users send messages back and forth. Some of them even flirt. Suddenly a new message pops up from a username he's never seen before. Tall, hot, blonde, big, 50. Her profile says she's an 18-year-old girl from West Virginia and they get to talking. When tall, hot blonde asks Marine sniper how old he is, Thomas panics. He doesn't know what it is about their conversation, but it has sparked something in him that he long thought dead. Joy, excitement. All he knows is he doesn't want to scare her off by saying he's 46. So without thinking, Thomas tells

tall, hot blonde that he too is 18. And suddenly Thomas Montgomery is no longer a 46-year-old man. He's 18 again, and he's alive again. He straightens in this chair, his fingers hovering over the keyboard, and he spends hours chatting with his new friend. For the first time in years, Thomas Montgomery feels seen. And this conversation is the start of something he never could have predicted. There is a lot wrong here. A lot. Especially his thought process around deciding he was 18, too, but we'll get to that in a Yeah. So let's start with Thomas Montgomery. Now, there isn't a ton known about Thomas's upbringing, but here are the facts that we do know. So he was born on June 3rd, 1959. He grew up in upstate New York. He served in the Marine Corps. And one article said that he spent six years in service, but he never saw combat, which is something that he actually was like sad about. Which like usually you would think, oh, like great. That's what a relief you didn't have to go see. Yeah, you don't get deployed in that way. But he was upset. He was upset. So according to Thomas himself, he came out of the core with a drinking problem and he kicked it cold turkey when he got married. After that, he settled down with his wife Cindy

and the two of them started a family. So by 46 years old, Thomas Montgomery was living in Clarence, New York, a suburb just outside of Buffalo with his wife of 16 years, Cindy, and two young daughters. Thomas was a machine operator at Dinabrade, a manufacturing company. And it's a job but he had been working for several years. His days were spent on the factory line, manning the machine. It was pretty mundane. He himself said he didn't love it, but leaving that job meant a risk of not finding something that could support his family. Right.

So by May of 2005, Thomas Montgomery felt like his life was overwhelmingly underwhelming, mundane, routine, almost like a trap, a place he would be stuck in forever. And I'm saying this because Thomas himself says this. There's a documentary called Tall Hot Blonde. You can watch on Prime Rent It. And Thomas Montgomery is like very forthcoming about himself, almost to the point where I'm like, you're leaning into this a little bit much. Two cameras says that he was impotent at this time. He wanted to have sex, but he couldn't get it up.

You know what's interesting is when first reading about this, it reminded me a little bit of the short story, The Secret Life of Walter Medi. Did you ever read that? No. Oh, it's about a guy who basically, like, has this routine mundane life, and he feels very emasculated in his life. And, like, there's nothing exciting or, like, manly about him. And so he disappears into these fantasies that he creates for himself in his mind. But in here it kind of happens online. But they're also in his mind. Yes. But yeah, so he kind of attributes this impotency and ability to have sex with his wife as part of a reason that everything that happens happens. Nothing in his life. life was going as he wanted, but something was about to change all of that. Right. So like you painted in this beautiful narrative, Thomas Montgomery found an outlet online, specifically pogo.com. Pogo.com was this massively popular gaming site that offered a

bunch of online games like cards and bingo, but it also had a chat feature, which is how people could talk to each other. And it's a place where mostly adults pass time after work. But the only identification that existed for playful usernames. So there were no real names, there were no profile pictures, no real verification at all. Ripe for catfishing. Yes. Or just disappearing and becoming someone else.

But catfishing the term itself didn't exist until 2010, but that doesn't mean that people weren't doing it before then. You could literally be anyone you wanted. The internet provided a way to reinvent yourself or hide your true self. So I did some

Googling, some searching. to find studies about catfishing and, like, online deception. In 2005, it was extremely common. 24% of internet users in 2005 admitted they pretended to be someone else online. That's a huge number. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Wow. In a 2004 Stanford research paper, they stated that users felt more comfortable editing their identity in online interactions, meaning that these chat rooms were considered spaces to experiment with who you were. So it's safe to assume that a lot of the users on pogo.com were lying in some manner. Thomas created his username choosing the username Marine Sniper. And when he met the username Tall, Hot, Blonde, Big 50, he had a decision to make to tell her the truth or pretend to be someone else and lie. And it was sometime in May 2005 that Marine Sniper met Tall, Hot, Blonde, Big 50 online. And while their exact conversations from this first meeting aren't available, this is basically what happened.

So according to the documentary that came out in 2009, Thomas as Marine Sniper got a message from the username Tall Hot Blonde Big 50 saying, you're in the wrong room. This is a kid's room. And then, and this is confirmed by Thomas Montgomery himself, he decided to. to tell Jesse that he too was 18 because he thought telling a teenage girl that he was actually 46 would seem creepy because it is creepy to be 46 and talking to an 18 year old girl online. But he didn't want to look like one of those older men who got exposed for chatting with minors online. The logic here is so backwards.

The call is coming from inside the room, man. Hold up a mirror. He's like he is concerned about being caught as one of those old men. But the way that these older men chatting with minors got exposed was by doing exactly what Thomas does in that moment. But so also, Jesse was 18, so not technically a minor. So he wouldn't have been doing anything wrong. But he goes into this panic. So I also...

But he still understands the age gap is wrong. Wrong. Totally. But also he's married with kids. 100%. He knew what he was doing. But so I was looking up when did date lines to catch a predator come out? Because I feel like that is so much about like online.

Predators. Such a good show. And it literally aired in November of 2004 for the first time. Just this segment. So Dateline had been around for a long time. But the To Catch a Predator aired in November 2004. So this idea of online Predator Stings was new and probably on Thomas's mind. Yeah, very fresh. I think we can all agree. He knew what he was doing. And I think he got excited. Oh, this 18 year old girl with the username Tall Hot Blonde is messaging me and he wanted to entertain it. Yeah. Which like can he not look at? words and be like, okay, I chose the username Marine sniper and I'm not a Marine sniper. Could tall hot blonde, maybe not be tall hot and blonde? Logic wasn't working. I think logic was missing for a lot of this case. That is at the crux of this case. So Thomas became Tommy, an 18-year-old

soldier who was about to be shipped off to Iraq. Tall hot blonde, tall hot blonde, big 50. So much easier to say tall hot blonde. We're going to say tall hot blonde moving forward. Introduced herself as Jesse and described herself as an 18-year-old tall blonde girl living in West Virginia. And when asked about Marine Sniper, Thomas decided to tell her his real name, Thomas, but he went by Tommy. That's younger, right? And he and Jesse, aka Tall Hot Blonde, began talking regularly. She was very chatty and she was very interested in Tommy's life.

And he was really happy to tell her everything, but everything he said was a lie. He was making it all up. Yes. So the only similarity between Tommy and the 40s. six-year-old Thomas was that Thomas had been a Marine in the past. Otherwise, the life he spelled out to Jesse that she was so intrigued by was a total fabrication. So the digital version of himself was a black belt in karate. He had a body covered in bullet scars, and he was six foot two. This is a very secret life of Walter Middy. In real life, Thomas was middle-aged, balding, had a gut, wore glasses,

And had a wife and kids. And had a wife and kids. But Jessie didn't need to know all this, right? That's not for her to know. As far as the chat rooms were concerned, he was Tommy and Tommy was real. So he wove this like entire life to Jesse. He concocted lies about his upbringing, his relationships and his feelings about being deployed. And I'm going to share some of the details that he lied about and told.

He told Jesse that his mother had died of cancer when he was 12. But this is the one that is so specific and it's also like very damning character. that I'm like, why would you ever make up a lie about this? Yeah. About, like, yourself, unless there's a hint of truth about it. So this is the lie. He told Jesse that in high school he sexually assaulted a cheerleader and that guilt had been eating him alive so badly that he felt like he needed to make amends.

And that is what led him to sign up and register for the Marine Corps. Like, you don't say that to someone. Like, that's the weirdest lie ever. And now there's no verification of whether or not Thomas Monke, the real Thomas Montgomery did do this, but like... Well, because for Tommy, that was like two years ago. But for Thomas, that was a couple decades before. I'm like, that is too specific.

And if you're painting a fantastical version of yourself, why would you ever come up with something like that? No, yeah. Anyway, Thomas had pieces of lore for every part of his life and part of this, like, fantasy life. He presented Tommy as tragically flawed and lost, looking for purpose in his life, which probably is like his way of, like, really processing. what was true for a 46-year-old.

Like he had real issues, but he was packaging it in this like new and desirable 18-year-old version. Right. And then Jessie shared just as much with him, even sharing photos of herself, photos that proved she was who she said she was. A tall, hot, blonde 18-year-old named Jessie with a brilliant smile. To which you might ask, well, if Jesse's providing photos, don't you think Jesse would want Thomas to provide photos? You just saying this just triggered a memory that I have of early days of MySpace where we found a profile of me where someone had taken all of my pictures and were using it. They were like in Michigan or something. And I showed it to my mom. And my mom was like, this is wildly inappropriate. And I messaged the person and I said, if you don't take this down, I'm calling the cops. And they took it down immediately. Well, think about on Instagram and TikTok, people do that all the time nowadays. Yeah. I was 12. That's crazy. But then there's the people who run scams where they like pretend to be you and they like message their followers. And they're like, I need help.

Right. Send me money. Or people who pretend to be like another person's relative because they take like the picture from Facebook or whatever. Terrible, terrible. Yeah. Okay. Well, Tommy, he was like, oh, I'll send photos of myself back to you. And that is exactly what Thomas did.

He did share photos of himself from when he was 18, meaning these photos were taken in 1977. So clearly these photos look a lot different than the photos that Ta-Hol Blonde is sharing from 2005. I don't know about you, but those look visually very different. Right. Apparently, Jesse loved it. She bought it. She was like, oh, my God, look how hot you are. And they kept chatting and the romance was building in their messages.

And Thomas really made sure to always emphasize his fragile emotional state. In one chat conversation, he told Jesse that he thought, and this is content warning for suicidal ideation. He thought about ending his life, but Jesse made him promise to stay alive for her. Yes. Jesse gave Thomas attention, validation, desire, and now a reason to live. So now all of a sudden, 46-year-old Thomas was waking up every morning with this like pep in a step. One that even his co-workers, friends and family started to notice. He would wake up, clock into the factory, drive home at night, spend time with his wife and family, and before, slipping. into bed beside his wife, he would log on to pogo.com and continue spending hours chatting to Jesse.

And very quickly, their conversations turned romantic and sexual. And they even took the conversations off pogo.com and began chatting on the phone. Right. And we're not really sure how the voice of a 46-year-old versus an 18-year-old, like this didn't give him away. Like, did he alter his voice? Did he try to go, like, hi? Yeah, like talk more. Yeah. I don't know. But like if someone did that to me, I would be able to tell. Although I will say that I have some family friends who now they're men in their like 60s, that their voices are very young.

So I wonder if maybe he had one of these. There's a lot of things that I'm like, how is it not clear? Did you watch the documentary? Yeah. What's his voice young or is it? No, his voice. Okay. If I heard that, I'm like, that's a man, old man.

That's a, yeah. Not to say 46 is old, but when you're 18. Because the documentary came out more recently. Oh, okay. Okay. So Jesse, I guess, didn't question whether any of this was real. If anything, it seems like she was falling for Tommy and she was falling hard. And behind his screen, the real Thomas was falling just as hard for Jesse.

So hard that Thomas or Tommy messages Jesse and told her that he got her name tattooed on his arm. This is weeks after meeting and stirring up conversation. Just weeks. And they only started talking online. Granted, it wasn't true. But I think real-life Thomas was- How could a married man go and get- But also, it's like a little bit of love bombing.

Oh, totally. And I think Thomas really wanted it to be true. And you start to see these cracks where the real-life Thomas and this fantasy Tommy are blurring together. Well, he's already doing stuff to make her feel. like she has to stay. Like, her name is now tattooed on him, like, how embarrassing if she just dumps him the next day. Like, she'd feel like some sort of like, oh, well, I have to play this out. And now his literal life, too, like, I might end my life if we're not together. Guilt. If I don't have you. Abuse.

Totally. He truly started to believe that he and this 18-year-old girl could have a future together. It's just the wildest story. The closer Tommy and Jesse Garcy. the more elaborate Tommy's lies became. And he even invented another character, Tom Sr., who was Tommy's overbearing father. And sometimes Tom Sr. would message Jesse on Tommy's behalf, explaining that he did not want his son on the computer that evening, that she would have to leave messages with him. So creepy. Like literally Tommy has to go to bed, like he can't be up late on the messaging. Bizarre.

It's extra steps that don't need to happen. Yeah, he's just like seeing how far you can go. the blur between fantasy and reality, it's manifesting in really strange ways now, and it's not just a fun online escape. Like, this is becoming an obsession, and it's truly bringing out this darker side of Thomas. So after Thomas tells Jesse, or Tommy tells Jesse that he got her name tattooed on his arm, Jesse is like, I want to return the favor, and I want to make this grand romantic gesture to you, Tommy. So she puts together a video montage, spicing together with photos that Tommy had sent to her and photos of her together.

All set to Erosmith's, I don't want to miss a thing. And I don't want to miss a thing. And normally you'd be like, aw, that's so cute if this was a normal relationship. But for some reason, this set Thomas off. Like, he erupted into a rage. But just so, like, how is that your trigger after everything else, man? Right. For some reason, Jesse's video, it made Thomas jealous, which didn't really make

any sense. It made him angry to see Jesse including new photos of herself once that Thomas hadn't seen before. So that was where she went wrong, I guess. So he sent her a slew of angry messages accusing her of sending photos to another online lover that he didn't know about because how are these new photos in this? As if she doesn't have photos of herself. Right. Or can't take permission. Yeah. So Jesse promised Tommy, no, no, no, none of that's true. And she's trying to convince him, but nothing would convince him. So to prove her love was real, she mailed a package to Thomas' address, his real address, like wife and kids at home. She mails him a package. Do you want to know what's inside this package? You already know. Inside is a handwritten

apology letter and a G-string, which Tommy loved. And receiving this package solved all their problems. He was no longer mad at her. He forgave her. He's a 46-year-old man pretending to be an 18-year-old boy and now has the underwear of an 18-year-old girl. And then just like that, everything went back to normal between them. Totally like, I'm just so disturbed for his home life and just his children. It's embarrassing to have that be what happened to your dad. So by the end of 2005, Tommy and Jesse were talking every single day, either in the chat rooms or email or also over the phone. And this part, like...

Again, logic is not really here in this case because do you want to know the email that Thomas used for his email exchanges with Jesse? The family account. The username T.C. Montgomery 1. As in T for Thomas. C. or Cindy, his wife. And then the phone calls. It's like, you dumbass. Right.

You might be like, okay, well, how did he manage having all these phone calls where, like, he's working all day? He is at home with his family. is he like secretly having these calls like late at night? Well, Thomas by this point had told Jesse that he had been deployed to Iraq. So he was only available from 6 a.m. to 3 p.m. for phone calls. And they would only be able to talk for 10 minutes each time. So he had like a reason for everything. As catfishes do. And in reality, these are the hours that like his wife and children weren't around. Like he was either at work or wherever he was able to have conversations. And no one asked questions. the only thing on their mind was their future that they were going to share together.

And in December of 2005, Thomas decided to pop the question on Christmas Day. To a girl he's never met. Nope. And is 18. Yes. And Jesse said yes. Crazy. To celebrate, she sent Thomas more presents, including more G-strings.

Which also, who wears G-strings? Those are like very uncomfortable. It's floss. Literally. No. Granny panties all the way. And I just wanted to ask like an inappropriate question. I was like, were they washed?

Were they brand new? Did she send him used underwear? Like what was the deal? That is a good question. I don't know. Yeah. She even threw in a customized pair of dog tags that said Tom and Jesse always in forever. Also, it's so crazy to me because from Jesse's POV, she's sending this stuff to a mailing address in New York, but he's supposed to be deployed overseas.

So how's he getting them? Right. Oh, I just got your package in Iraq, New York. There's a lot of things where I'm like, yes, suss. Unless his dad is telling him, oh, I just got a package of G strings. I just got your G strings. So despite all of the red flags here, Thomas genuinely believes that the two of them can actually be together. And he starts to openly talk about this situation to people at work.

He tells everyone about how he's talking to this girl. and they're crazy for each other. He even brags that he's going to leave his wife and kids, move out to West Virginia to be with Jesse. Could you imagine? I hate this. Hearing. Like, how unhinged would you think someone is at work if they just start, like,

bragging about this? Yeah. And yes, his coworkers do all think, like, this is weird. Right. And, like, that's you're a bad person. Yeah. They're all like, oh, this is like a middle-aged man who's having, like, a midlife crisis, fantasizing about a life with an 18-year-old girl that he doesn't even know.

You know, I have come in contact with a couple of those at work, like early days where it's just like, this is not appropriate what you're doing at work. And no. I once drove someone a middle-aged coworker whose wife called him about 30 times and he didn't pick up. I put him in a car and I drove him at his house from a work party. It's like, we're not, you're not doing this. Reminds me of the U-2. I mean, this was different, but like that, was it you two? The concert? Oh, Coldplay. Cold play. The Cold play. The Cold play concert. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I meddled a little bit. Yeah. As you should. Yeah. But so while his co-workers start calling him like a loser in private, Thomas is just like lost in his fantasy, just focused on his new life, planning the future, even though he was lying about the whole thing. And as the new year approached, he wrote down his resolution. on a notepad at work.

And this is what he wrote. On January 2nd, 2006, Thomas Montgomery, 46 years old, ceases to exist and is replaced by an 18-year-old battle-scarred Marine. He is moving to West Virginia to be with the love of his life. In the suburbs of D.C., a woman fails to show up for work and is found brutally murdered. I wonder which emergency. We just walked in the door, and there's blood in the foyer. For the next two decades, the case remained unsolved until new technology allowed investigators to do what had once been impossible.

A new series from ABC Audio in 2020, Blood and Water. Listen now, wherever you get your podcasts. Cindy Montgomery walks toward the mailbox. The February air is sharp and cold. It whips down the driveway and cuts through her robe. Instinctively, she pulls it tighter. but her mind is on other things. Her husband, Thomas, has been acting strange.

This she's known for months, but as she replays it in her mind, she realizes this has been going on for over a year. Every night, Thomas is planted in front of the family computer. She sits nearby watching TV, but the second she asks who he's talking to, he becomes shifty, vague. Their daughters will ask to use the computer,

and Thomas snaps at them. Thomas claims he's just playing games on love. talking to some friends, but he's acting obsessive, addicted. And Cindy can't shake the feeling that there's something she's missing. As she racks her brain as to what it could be, she reaches the mailbox and pulls out the mail, absent-mindedly flipping through the letters. Then suddenly, a package catches her eye. It is addressed to Tommy, which she assumes must be Thomas.

But nobody calls Thomas Tommy. Something about this package doesn't seem right, and Thomas also hasn't been right for a long time. So, Cindy decides to open it, and inside is a thaw. Cindy's stomach drops. Her face goes red hot against the cold morning. What the hell is this? She marches back up the driveway, straight into the house, straight to their bedroom. She's not sure where to look or what she's trying to find,

but it doesn't take long for her to discover a collection of women's underwear that Thomas had hidden. Suddenly, all those nights, Thomas's strange mood, it all makes sense. Whatever he's doing online, it is not harmless and it is not just a game. As you can imagine, this sent Cindy into detective mode and it did not take long for her to learn pretty much everything. literally everything. The relationship, the proposal, the endless stream of lies that Thomas had told Jesse. And now she's fully aware that her husband, a 46-year-old and the father of her children, was pretending to be 18 and was having an affair with an 18-year-old girl. Cindy found the messages on pogo.com and also the email on their shared family email account. So Cindy was like,

the jig is up. She is not going to stand idly by and let this happen. She confronts Thomas immediately. And first she's angry because she's like, for years or for months, I have been trying to communicate with you. Like, I'm right here. Why didn't you just talk to me? Why couldn't we have worked this out together as a couple? To which Thomas responded, it's easier to talk to someone I can't see. Second, and I love this about Cindy, she is furious with Thomas for leading an 18-year-old girl on. She, like her motherly instincts, kick in, she also feels some sense of responsibility and the concern for this 18-year-old girl. At this point, it didn't matter what Thomas said. She was like, we're getting a divorce.

But at the same time, she wants to protect the 18-year-old girl that Thomas had been deceiving. So Cindy writes a letter to Jessie. In this letter, Cindy broke down every one of Thomas's lies and told Jesse that Tommy, the hunky young Marine, was not real. She even included a photo of herself and their daughters. And in a final warning, Cindy told Jessie not to trust anyone online and not what people say online. It could all be lies. And when she grew older, Jesse would learn to be more cautious about who she trusted with her heart. So this is so nice.

Cindy's like being a mom. Right. Like she's like... Poor girl. Be more careful. Right. Exactly. Like it's not your fault. This is just a dangerous world.

Yeah. After that, Cindy relegated Thomas to the base. divorce was imminent, but she wanted to protect their daughters, so discretion was also key. And I really wish this was the end of the story. But Jessie did not listen to Cindy's advice. No, tell how blonde, come on. When Jessie learned the truth about Thomas, she went back online, and this time she confided in another person she'd never met in real life. So she's so distraught learning the truth about Thomas, like the boy that she loved and was engaged to, keep in mind. So she decides to look at all the people that Marine Sniper is friends with to try to find someone on the friends list to basically confirm everything that Cindy said in the letter.

She doesn't want to believe it's true. No. So she ends up finding and communicating with Beefcake 1572, who happened to be 22-year-old Brian Barrett, Thomas's co-worker, and friend. Yes. And like we shared earlier, Thomas was very open and cocky about his online relationship with his co-workers at the factory. So Brian did, in fact, know about Jesse, 18-year-old Jesse and all about their affair. Brian, along with the others at work, all thought Thomas was absolutely losing it and being super weird. So when Jesse, aka Taha Blonde Big 50, messaged Brian and it pops up on his screen, he's really curious about her side of the story.

What's her perspective? Because they only know Thomas and all the chaos he's been. bringing into conversations. Yeah. So Jessie, who's heartbroken, she doesn't want to believe everything that Cindy wrote and that any of that could be true. So she confides in Brian and asks if this is true. And Brian confirms, yes, Thomas Montgomery is 46.

He's married. He has two daughters. Everything he told you was a lie. So now, with this confirmation, you would hope Jesse would get off the online chats. But instead, she turns to Brian for comfort. And Brian does comfort Jesse. which turns into something romantic. Well, he seemingly isn't lying to her, right?

Like, he's telling her the truth, at least about someone else. And he is 22, much closer in age to Jesse. He's a college student. He's studying to be a teacher. He's working part-time of the factory. He is everything that Tommy was pretending to be, basically. And at 22, he is much closer an age to her, which I think now at this point, she's 19 years old. And Brian's not lying about anything.

So the pair would chat, they'd play games together on Pogo, and Jesse found it easy to confide in Brian. So the more they talked, the more the conversations heated up, and things got intimate, fast. But they also got messy. Yes. Because just because Cindy caught him and told Jesse everything does not mean Thomas gave up on his dream fantasy life. He was still very much in love with Jesse and very desperate to get that love. life back. I wish Cindy was tall, hot blonde, and this was like the Pina Colotta song, you know, the if you like peanut falado. It's like the two people who are married and they take

out classified ads. Oh, like they were just having like a to try to like spice it up. No, but they didn't know. Oh, I didn't know that. Oh, you got to really listen to the lyrics. That's what it's about. Yeah, this guy like takes out an ad and the person who's like responding to his ad, like, is actually his wife. It's his wife. It's his wife. And so they both like attempted to have an affair and just like rekindled and refound each other. And like, can you believe it? Teaching me something new today. Yeah.

Okay, but this is not a song. This is a very messy love triangle. Unbeknownst to Thomas, his coworker Brian is also getting involved in Jesse. So Thomas doesn't know he's a part of a love triangle, but he is. So each night, Thomas logs on to pogo.com, hoping to talk to Jesse and return to what they had. But instead, he is inundated with harassment. Brian and Jesse decided to punish Thomas, and every time they saw him log on, they would send messages to public chat rooms calling Thomas a child predator and a pedophile to the point that he was actually banned from one chat room completely, which I'm shocked he wasn't banned for more. That's also questionable. Red flag there.

Red flag for POCA.com. Jesse even gave Brian the passwords to her account so that he could log on as Jesse and send Thomas cruel messages. They're like hardcore bullying. Right. Cyberbullying. Not to say that Thomas didn't deserve a little bit of it, but like Thomas learns because of all of this that now Brian, his coworker and Jesse are romantically involved and it drives him mad, like crazy mad. At work, Brian starts talking loudly about his new relationship with Jesse, specifically

when Thomas is around because he like wants to like rub it in Thomas's face. Like, ha, ha, you old 46 year old man thought you could actually get away with this lie and be with a beautiful 18 year old. and totally making a mockery of Thomas, which makes Thomas furious. He has one goal in mind. That is to get back with Jesse and there is only one person standing in the way, Brian. And he felt that way because, and this is like such, it's twisted. Because despite Jesse and Brian mocking him, harassing him, Jesse's still talking to Thomas the whole time.

It's just so why. It's like, why is she doing that? I don't know, but she did. And despite her cruel antics with Brian, Jesse also sent private messages and emails with Thomas, worrying over him, confiding that she still has feelings for him. They're so abusive to each other. Like, this is just so toxic. Crazy. Yeah.

She explained that even though Thomas wasn't who he said he was, that he was still the closest thing to Tommy that she could get and Tommy's who she fell for. So I'm going to spell it out because it's really messy. Jesse is flirting with Brian. stirring up a romantic relationship while still communicating with Thomas because despite knowing the truth that he is a 46-year-old man, she still loves him.

But Brian doesn't know this. Right. And this only leads Thomas deeper into obsession and fantasy. So Thomas kept messaging Jesse and he told her how his life had fallen apart after Cindy found out what he'd been doing and the guys at work were now making fun of him

and people in town didn't want to talk to him and he was tired of living in the basement of his own house. Thomas confessed to Jesse that all of this made him want to end his life, that there was nothing living for anymore. And like before, Jesse tried to talk about it. She promised Thomas that she was planning to leave Brian and that their relationship wasn't real.

It wasn't like her and Thomas's. She said Brian was just upon a way to make Thomas jealous. But again, it's like the toxic abuse cycle where Thomas is threatening suicide because he knows that that will bring Jesse closer and make Jesse want to protect him more. And Thomas is super jealous. I mean, we saw how he reacted when new images were in a montage.

Right. So he warns Jesse that if she's lying, that she would, quote, lose something very close to her. That is really disturbing to hear. That's very scary. Jesse promises she's being truthful and that she would stop messaging Brian and focus all of her energy on Thomas. But that doesn't stop Thomas from getting jealous. Thomas is fixated on this idea that Jesse had other online boyfriends and that she was lying to him. His messages would go from sweet and romantic to explicit and threatening.

He even threatened to leak Jesse's address so that people could come and hurt her. That's so fucked up. And on multiple occasions, Thomas would declare that he was going to quote, unquote, delete Jesse from his life for good. And each time, Jesse convinced him to stay and talk to her online. things continued on like this throughout the summer of 2006, very toxic, very unstable, and it was about to get much, much worse. Because at the end of the summer, Thomas found out that Jesse and Brian were talking again, even though Jesse promised that it was over and that they weren't talking. She broke that promise, and there would be hell to pay. It's late. A little after 1 a.m. on September 13, 2006.

Thomas's bloodshot eyes are glued to his computer screen as he types another furious message to Jesse. As he types the word, he is reminded of the lies. She promised she broke things off with Brian, but they're still talking. Ever since he found out, he's been seeing red and he wants to hurt Jesse. That's why he sends the message. He presses enter, and as he waits for Jesse to respond, he rereads his words. You are a whore, and that's all you will ever be. But Jesse doesn't respond.

Instead, she logs off. So Thomas escalates, sending more and more messages, more threats, more insult, anything to get a reaction from Jesse. And in the early morning hours of September 15th, Thomas decides to call Jessie's phone. It rings and ring. But finally she answers, and Thomas doesn't wait for her to respond or talk. He spits out vulgar accusations and insults. He has never felt a rage like this. It is all consuming.

Every fiber of his being belongs to anger. When he's done, Jesse ends the relationship. Or good. And calmly. Then hangs up cutting Thomas off completely. Of course, Thomas won't accept that. He thinks he can fix it and he knows exactly how to do so. So Thomas continues with his day,

thawting the whole time. See, the only thing that is in the way of his relationship with Jesse is Brian Barrett. And this fact has become abundantly clear to Thomas over the last few months. So much so that he has been trying to figure out a way to get Brian out of the picture. He's tried everything but one thing.

So, knowing Brian's schedule because he's studied it, Thomas drives to the Dinabrade Office, and waits in the parking lot. He watches the office door with determination. In one hand, he holds a peach, a snack, and in the other hand, he holds a rifle. Sometime after 10 p.m. on September 15th, Brian finishes his shift and walks to the parking lot, ready to go home,

a place he'll never see again. Because Thomas has been waiting for him, and moments before Brian reaches his truck, Thomas spits the peach pit onto the pavement, pulls a mask down over his face and marches toward Brian. Unaware, Ryan slips into his car only for Thomas to then raise the rifle and fire three times. The bullets tear through the car window striking Brian dead. Thomas fired three rounds into Brian's car, hitting him in the neck and upper arm.

And by the time cops arrived, Brian was already dead. And Thomas was long gone. Long gone, as in he was back home. messaging Jesse very thinly veiled threats about Brian. I think like in one thing he was like messaging like, have you heard from your boyfriend yet? Like because he knew Brian was dead. He has to be so like he snapped. 100%. But as Thomas has been throughout the entire story, he was very short-sighted about how long it would take please to identify him as the suspect for the killing of Brian Barrett.

So the weeks leading up to Brian's murder, Thomas was bragging to. his coworkers about how to pull off a murder without getting caught. He had also been very vocal to his coworkers who already think Thomas is kind of weird about how much he hates Brian. He's sharing way too much at work. Way too much. And also in his online chats, he's like sharing his plans. So when Brian was found murdered, multiple people call in to like the tip line. They're like, hey, we think Thomas Montgomery did this. Right. Like all signs point to Thomas. And around the same time, the police looked through Brian's cell phone and found Jesse's phone number. and reading her messages, they learned about this love triangle between Jesse and Brian and Thomas

and how Thomas had been threatening Jesse for the better part of the last few months. Yeah. So as they prepare to arrest Thomas, the police also decided that they should call Jessie to warn her that she also might be in danger. Totally. Thomas is deranged at this point. So they call Jessie up to tell her the news and inform her that they think Thomas was responsible. They tell Jessie that they're going to send the local West Virginia police officer to her house and this is where a twist comes that no one saw coming. So moments after this call, a local West Virginia police officer

knocks on the front door of Jessie's house. And her mother, Mary, answers. Mary explains that Jessie isn't home and can't be reached. But the officer is like, wait, we like just talked to Jesse on the phone mere minutes ago. What do you mean she left? We told her we were coming. So they start asking more questions about her daughter.

And Mary starts getting cagey. She tries to avoid answering anything, and she starts to get nervous, which the cops are like, what is happening? And all of a sudden, Mary breaks down. And she makes a shocking confession. Tall, hot, blonde Big 50, aka Jesse, was in fact not an 18-year-old girl. It was Mary Sheeler. And Mary Sheeler had been posing as her very own 18-year-old daughter. Jesse the entire time.

I'm incredibly disturbed by this. Like, this is the most disturbing part of the story. Well, except for Brian being killed. Right. It's catfishing, catfishing on both sides. And you're pimping out your kid. It reminds me of... Online Predators.

That documentary unknown number that just came out. Crazy. Crazy. Yeah. So this is a double-sided catfish situation. One that no one else knew that they were a part of except for Jesse. I guess. Yeah.

Or Mary. I don't know what to call her now. Tall hot blonde. And some of the following details are pretty hard to share, but we're going to share them. So Mary Sheila was 45. She was the mother of a teenage daughter named Jessica. Jessica was tall hot blonde.

Every photo that Mary had sent to both Thomas and Brian was of an actual person. It was her daughter. Her very own daughter. Charlie took half of those photos. Yeah. Jessica had absolutely no idea that her mom was doing this. Summary tellings of the story will say that some nude photos had been shared, but that is not true. That being said, Mary was absolutely taking advantage of her daughter.

She was exploiting her. She crossed multiple, countless boundaries at this point. Countless. Betrayed her trust. And, you know, what's so crazy to me is, like, Cindy called and was like, oh, be careful of... Wrote a letter. Yeah. Or, like, wrote the letter and was like, be careful of who is online.

Like, there's so many predators. You're a young girl. This is a dangerous place. Mary received that, and it didn't register. like I am doing something to endanger my own child. She was the predator. This is a story of multiple people having lapses of reality and getting completely lost in fantasy. Mary didn't send nudes.

Thank goodness. But she is still exploiting her daughter and violating her daughter. She's taking real photos of her real daughter, sending them to two grown men without her knowledge. In bikinis. Some of them, yeah, we're in bikinis. Crazy. I can't even fathom. No. Similar to Thomas, Mary didn't join Pogo.com with the intention of becoming someone else, but it just ended up happening.

Mary said that when she created the account, she accidentally used her daughter's screen name, which she never changed. Mary claimed that for her, her relationship with Tommy felt more maternal than romantic, which is very disturbing giving those messages. He seemed really lost and lonely. He seemed like he needed affection. And when Tommy was revealed to be fake, Mary had her own reasons for keeping up the online relationship with Thomas too. She justified that messaging with Thomas Montgomery was her way of keeping him from talking to real teenagers. So now she's being the hero in the story. Whereas psychologically, I think what was happening to Thomas Montgomery at the 46-year-old lying about being 18 was actually also happening to Mary Sheila. She got caught up in this lie of being 18, thinking she was talking to another 18-year-old and getting the satisfaction of this relationship and feeling wanted and getting attention.

I think she got wrapped up in it the same way Thomas did. Yeah, well, she totally justified this. And she was like, okay, if he's going to be lewd and aggressive towards anyone, let that be me rather than a real teenager who could get really hurt by this. And when it came to Brian, what was her explanation? Mary said that she thought his affection was really sweet and she didn't know how to turn him away without revealing who she really was. So by her own account, she simply allowed this love triangle to play out. We'll let you decide how much of her reasoning you choose to believe. But that is the story Mary told the cops.

And the police were shocked. As shocked as we all are probably listening to the story, especially if it's your first time hearing it. I didn't know of this prior to the case. No, I didn't either. Which is so crazy because it has been, like it's the OG catfish story. Well, I think because, and this is something that cops were experiencing too, like this is a case where they are investigating the murder of Brian. Right? So that becomes like the focus.

And Thomas Montgomery becomes the focus. And you kind of lose sight of the fact, well, like she was catfishing as well. Despite the shock, they're not there to arrest Mary. Technically she didn't do anything wrong. They're trying to catch a killer who was Thomas Montgomery. So that's their focus. On November 27, 2006, a little over a month after killing Brian Barrett, Thomas Montgomery was arrested for second degree murder. Which is like how secondary, not first degree.

He went with the intent to kill and killed him. In custody, Thomas denied everything blaming Tommy. Who do you think Tommy is, man? It's you. He said, I can't control what he does. Yeah. Which does kind of paint this picture of Thomas living this double life and how he'd separated the two lives. And it was just a dissociation of sorts.

Yeah. On top of the witness reports from his work and the chat logs between Brian and Jesse, police also found some key physical evidence at the murder scene, aka the peach pit that Thomas had thrown away. Spit away. Yeah. It was in his mouth, aka DNA, slobbered all over that thing.

Yep. They tested the DNA and they got a match. Additionally, the authorities also got access to Thomas's computer where they found thousands of messages between him and Jesse, including the open threats that he had texted her in the days leading up to Brian's death. And there was even more evidence against him at Thomas's own house. So the cops found Jesse's G-strings and all the presents that she'd sent to him. him. They also noted that one of Thomas's guns and his gun rack was missing a 30-caliber rifle

that matched the exact gun used to kill Brian. Exactly one year after his arrest on November 27, 2007, Thomas was found guilty of his crimes and sentenced to 20 years behind bars, which he's currently serving, but that also means that, isn't that up soon? Yeah. Like this, 2026, because he sent a year in prison before the trial. scary. Mary, on the other hand, you'd be like, oh, what happened to Mary? Does Mary have to pay any consequences? No. Her life basically returns to normal because catfishing wasn't a crime, even though you could argue that like she kind of allowed this all to go on and why wouldn't you call the cops if you are getting all these death threats? Right. There's very little information

on her or of how this all affected her. But we do know, I think she got divorced and then I do know for fact, her daughter, the real Jesse, has completely excommunicated her mother from her life. They do not talk. Good for her own safety. And Jesse was like disgusted at what her mother did. Yeah. Yeah. At some point after his arrest, Thomas found out the truth about Jesse and Mary testified at

his trial telling her version of the events. This case is one where the lies just stack on top of lies and they create this like tower of deceit. It was doomed to fall. while it is such like a salacious and kind of like juicy tail, in the end, there was an innocent man who was killed. And it's so frustrating because had both Thomas and Mary been honest about who they were, they could have, not that affairs are okay, but like they are closer. Age wise, more of a match. They could have the two of them had a relationship. Or just been like, hey, I'm a 40-something year old woman and I'm here to role play as an 18-year-old girl. Anything but what happened could have avoided the tragedy that ended up happening. So this is a tragedy. Brian was innocent, but it is easy to get lost in the lies, the manipulation and the shocking twists. But underneath is a, I think, much bigger conversation or conversations. Like, one, the dangers of the internet, which are still, to this day, very, very prevalent. Even more. If not more. Yeah. Do you see in Australia, they, I think like December 9th, the year?

social media ban went into effect. Under 18. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's a great thing. I think they should do that everywhere. Yeah, I agree. But so in this case, both Mary and Thomas lied about who they were, and it was easy. And then secondly, the conversation that I think comes into play here is the impact of mental health and how lonely we as human beings get. Yeah. Thomas Montgomery, I think I'm not a certified physician in any way, but, like, Like, he had depression. It was untreated. And it just snowballed into this other thing that ended in death.

I think this is also probably why the case became so sensational. It was about identity, obsession, and the lust of fantasy. Just remember that behind every screen name, every message, and every fantasy, there is a real person. Lies online have real world consequences. And in this case, those consequences were deadly. Brian did not deserve any of this. He and the real Jesse are the victims of this story. Yeah, absolutely.

So we will end this episode with the same advice Cindy tried to give Jesse in her letter. Be cautious when trusting what people say online. And be more cautious about who you trust with your heart. That's the episode. Thank you so much for listening. We are your hosts, Sabrina DeAnne Roga and Karen Vien. So join us next Tuesday for another peek inside another. crimes of passion. And if there are any cases you'd like us to cover, please let us know in the comments.

Here at Crime House, we want to thank each and every one of you for your support. If you like what you heard today, reach out on all social media at Crime House. And don't forget to rate review and follow Crimes of wherever you get your podcasts because your feedback truly makes a difference. And also just tell all of your friends to listen to Crimes of. We want more Mommies. We love you all. Bye, Mommy. I'm Katie Ring, host of America's most infamous crimes. Each week, I take on one of the most notorious criminal cases in American history. Listen to and follow America's most infamous crimes available now wherever you get your podcast.

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