Money Crimes with Nicole Lapin - INTERVIEW: Fyre Fest with Seth Crossno

Episode Date: July 10, 2025

When Seth Crossno flew to the Bahamas for Fyre Festival, he expected chaos—but not the kind that would leave him stranded in a disaster zone with the world watching. As one of the first people to document the debacle in real time—via a parody account—Seth’s tweets helped shape the public narrative of one of the biggest event failures in modern history. In this interview, Nicole Lapin sits down with Seth to unpack what it was really like on the ground at Fyre Fest, how he became an accidental internet icon, and why he ultimately took Billy McFarland to court. For more on Billy McFarland, check our our episode: CELEBRITY: Fyre Festival on Apple or Spotify Scams, Money, & Murder is a Crime House Original Podcast, powered by PAVE Studios. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. For ad-free listening and early access to episodes, subscribe to Crime House+ on Apple Podcasts. Don’t miss out on all things Scams, Money, & Murder! Instagram: @Crimehouse TikTok: @Crimehouse Facebook: @crimehousestudios X: @crimehousemedia YouTube: @crimehousestudios To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi there, it's Vanessa Richardson. Crime House is your go-to destination for the most gripping true crime shows. On my show Killer Minds, join me and forensic psychologist Dr. Tristan Engels for two new episodes as we dive into the twisted story of the Dr. Death serial killer, Michael Swango. Craving more deep dives into the minds of the world's most dangerous killers? Follow Killer Minds on Apple podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you listen. This is Crime House. It's like, they're an established company.

They know what they're doing, right? He looked at it and he was like, well, this is actually fraud. There were red flags, but it was all stuff that you could go, this is a first time festival. We'll see what happens. Fire Festival was supposed to be this ultimate luxury experience. Private jets, gourmet food, beachfront villas, and Instagram influencers as far as the eye could see.

We covered the story of the festival's creator Billy McFarland in an episode in May of 2025. But what was it like for someone who was actually there? Our guest today, Seth Crosnow, is a regular guy who decided to attend Fyre Festival not as himself, but as a satirical character, a trust fund kid trying to make it as an influencer. Little did he know this comedic bit would thrust him into the center of a very real disaster. Today, he's here to share what it was really like to live through the most infamous festival that never was.

Breaking news, McDonald's international menu items are vanishing. McPizza bites missing in Italy. Big Rosti stolen from Germany. Teriyaki chicken sandwich disappears in Japan. And a Biscoff McFlurry Blackout in Belgium. Oh, it's just in. We can now confirm the stolen favorites have resurfaced at McDonald's Canada.

The international menu heist. Try them all while you can, for a limited time in participating McDonald's in Canada. What's better than a well marbled ribeye sizzling on the barbecue? A well marbled ribeye sizzling on the barbecue? A well-marbled ribeye sizzling on the barbecue that was carefully selected by an Instacart shopper and delivered to your door. A well-marbled ribeye you ordered without even leaving the kiddie pool. Whatever groceries your summer calls for, Instacart has you covered.

Download the Instacart app and enjoy $0 delivery fees on your first three orders. Service fees, exclusions, and terms apply. Instacart, groceries that over-deliver. Seth, thank you so much for being here. Thanks for having me. Okay, so much to talk about. One of the things that I think really sets your experience

at the Fyre Festival apart from so many others that we're planning in on attending is that you were going to attend not as yourself but as your internet persona. Is that right? That's correct. My friend Mark convinced me that I needed to go to this because Mark likes going to these things and so he said you can just do it as a joke and like it'll be William Needham Findley IV is attending Fyre Festival and you're like trying to become an influencer I thought okay that's fine like that's a funny thing we can do. The whole character was like a trust fund kid everybody's got like an inside the belt line every town has that sort of like old money crowd and that's not

who I am I just am like a regular guy But I was sort of making fun of all of that kind of stuff and then I was like I need to like widen my audience a little if I'm actually gonna like make a living doing You know writing or entertaining and so I was like I'll be an influencer because that's like around the time when everybody was Like it's influencer. I want to come to the influencer night and I'm like, what is an influence? You just put it in your bio and now you're an influencer so. So that's basically what you did. Yeah. But what started as a joke quickly turned serious. Seth's live tweets from the ground as William Needham Finley the fourth quickly became one of the most reliable and immediate sources of

information as the Fyre Festival collapsed. It was wild. I don't think I like comprehend it still. I mean like for reference I would get 400,000 impressions or views on Twitter every month and just the three or four days of Fyre Festival it was like 55 million. I don't really know how to comprehend that but it's pretty wild. So how did that affect the way you use or you think about that person since then and now? I was like, well, I might as well keep doing it.

I really didn't know what to do with it, but it was like my job, so I just put out content that I think will make my friends laugh and hopefully that will work. But I was still at the same time like creating this whole ITB insider kind of local satire news site at the same time. When you say local, you mean local where you are in Raleigh? Yeah, Raleigh, North Carolina. It was just about things in town that I grew up in. The world knew William Needham, Finley the fourth, but back in Raleigh, North Carolina, few knew the man behind the character. So what happened when Seth's cover was finally blown?

I think maybe once the films came out, people maybe recognized me more. But yeah, in the immediate, people I think found out, but I don't know, they didn't really know what I looked like because I wasn't really posting pictures of myself. People were aware of it. Some people were like, oh, okay, that makes sense. But I just sort of like kept

going with it as if I was like, William Needham Findlay building a media empire. And like, now I've got an intern and we've got to make content with him and you know, just do stuff that I thought would be funny. Okay, so let's go back in time. Were there any red flags before you got to Fire Festival? Before you got to Great Exuma? There were red flags, but it was all stuff that you could go, this is a first time festival, we'll see what happens. Like what? You know, you'd get an email that said Fire Festival's a chance to unplug, like don't bring your laptop, you'd get an email that said, Fire Festival's a chance to unplug.

Like, don't bring your laptop. You don't need that. We'll have charging stations. And I was like, well, if the whole point of this is I'm supposed to be like getting content and stuff, I'm going to bring a bunch of extra batteries because I don't want to stand in a line and like charge my phone. So that was sort of like a red flag. But again, you could be like, well, maybe

it's their ethos, like Burning Man, you know, when that started, I don't think they had electricity, but like, we still thought there was electricity. There was just a lot of miscommunication around the flights or the booking process, but you'd email somebody and they'd answer you and you'd be like, okay. Well, these are just first-time people Whatever. So I guess I should have paid more attention to their red flags With the initial red flags easily dismissed as growing pains for new festival Seth and his friends arrived in Great Exuba Hopeful for the experience they had paid for but what did the arrival actually look like? Yeah, we Kind of waited on the plane to take off, you know, you get on a plane, you expect some delay,

but the whole thing, it was marketed as like, this was a charter private flight. So you're like, do we really need to sit on the runway for an hour? I don't know how these things work. So but we land, we go through the customs and everything. And then there's just somebody with like a little I don't know maybe 15 passenger van That just says all right come on if you're going to fire festival. She's getting you It's not like they were like marked things we weren't on a school bus We were just on a random little van

But then you you get to the site and you start seeing those tents and they're like, okay well, we got like a tent package villa thing so maybe ours are like around the corner or something like this can't be it, you know? And again, it was like the first day, like I think the official start of the festival was supposed to be the next day and we're getting there, I guess a day early, supposed to start that night, I guess a day early, supposed to start that night I guess. But so we're still like, whoa, this isn't really ready. And then you get to this blue house. That's just the only house on the property. And there's just a line of people and we're like, what is going

on here? How much did you spend for your villa experience? Or what you thought would be? All told it was about $4,000 I think, which would have been all the food, all the beverages, like alcohol included, the festival pass for the whole time. You know, was it Five Nights in the Bahamas, my flight down there and back. That's not insane when you add up, it's like, oh, Five Nights in the Bahamas. Like, that's not crazy. Most people, I think, the number that the media ran with was like $12,000 for a ticket, which, you know, that was an option. But I know people who got their tickets off of Groupon, so they paid 500 bucks. But yeah, we paid about 4,000, but that was to have everything included. We thought, all right, that's a

good deal. Because if you show up and it's not included, you find out a beer's 20 bucks, that would suck. Seth and his friends had paid handsomely for what they believed would be an all inclusive luxury villa experience. But as the hours passed, the scene at Great Exuma rapidly devolved from disorganized to outright dystopian. Seth, can you describe what that downward spiral looked like from your perspective? We're in line and there are some people at this little check-in table and things are just sort of like, we're just kind of in a standstill, but then there are people bringing

around tequila asking people if they want shots and stuff. I'm like, I'm good. Like, I feel like I should probably stay sober right now. And so Billy just got up on a sort of little table and stood on it. And people kind of surrounded him because we were all looking and they're like, all right, I guess we should ask this guy questions. And I'm like, isn't that the guy that started this thing? That's odd.

But we go up and we're like, people are asking them, where's this, where's that? And somebody said, where do you go if you've got the villa package or the whatever? And he just said, everybody just go find a tent. I think that's where it really just went downhill because everybody just kind of like made a mad dash to go get a tent and then you know some of the tents did have like their numbers so we get in a tent and some people show up an hour later so they're like hey we're tent 72 and we're like oh sorry we'll go find another one and then it's getting dark out and we don't really know where like anything is or where our

luggage is so then it was like on to find the luggage and then I were hungry where's the food like there's no signs or anything it's like food is this way you know all it needed was like a camp counselor to be like okay guys here's what's happening but I don't think I don't think Billy had what it took to do that. What was the most surreal moment that made you realize this is more than just a mix-up? This is a complete disaster. And when did you see that Tent72 was actually a Fema tent? I guess I didn't really put two and two together that they were Fema tents.

They just kind of looked like that, I guess I didn't really put two and two together that they were fumatants. They just kind of like looked like that. I guess there was a bed and had sheets on it and a little like shelf made of like wood and like it was just so disorganized with the Amazon, like pallets of Amazon boxes just dropped off and like just lockers that were there. You know, there's just like, it just looked, it looked so disorganized. If we'd gotten here tomorrow, it still wouldn't even be close to ready.

And so we thought, all right, we'll just find like an Airbnb or a hotel. And that did not exist. It was just packed that weekend. So it's one thing to have a terrible experience. It's another thing to feel like you're in danger. So there was no security, there were no medical tents. You mentioned the luggage, it was flying out of shipping containers.

Was there any point on the first day that you felt like you were personally in danger? I don't really know how to define danger. It just didn't feel really safe when it was dark outside and we had no idea where to go or what to do and it's like well do we just stay in this tent or how do we leave? You know if you're at like a bad event in New York City at Central Park you just walk across the street and you're fine. Like there was no walking across the street here. There was no getting an Uber. And that was like kind of the scariest thing.

It's like, we're just here and nobody's telling us what to do or where to go. And it's starting to be pitch black. There's some generators with a few lights on them, but like, it's just chaos. The whole rest of the story, it just keeps getting like worse and worse with what happened next. So what's going on in your mind at that point as things are devolving quickly? You're not feeling like you're in danger just yet.

What's some of the unhinged behavior you started witnessing among the attendees during all the chaos? I mean, I think a lot of people were just like, I gotta find my luggage, I gotta find a place to go, you know. There were some people I knew from Raleigh that were there and I bumped into a friend and she's like, I think we're gonna stay here. Have you guys found a hotel? We're like, no. Mark's wife was like calling hotels and Airbnbs and there was nothing. So they were like yeah, we're just gonna stay here but um

We didn't know what we were gonna do at the time. I thought well Our friend Chris had made his way into the Blue House to go talk to somebody to try to get some answers I don't know how he did that, but I just thought well walk around and just take pictures and videos and stuff because We'll be gone in an hour, right like crystal figure it out or Something will happen and if it gets really crappy then I'll like go help out and quit being like a fake influencer You know, but it's like alright, it's eight o'clock nine o'clock I'll just go take some pictures of the stage and just to me. It was still funny I was sort of like trying to be in character like I've got sand in my colons and like oh where's the music line up and just stuff that

I thought my friends would think was funny. And then after a while like I think I was still doing an Instagram live or something or periscope whatever it was back then and my buddy Chris was like we were going and I was like oh okay like I think it might even still be on the video because I was just like, oh, all right. So I don't think I was being the best, you know, like boy scout or a helper there, but thankfully Chris was. So where were you going?

Somehow he had gotten into the house and was talking to Billy and one of Billy's employees and found out that there was one more flight that was going to leave. Because I think at some point earlier on, they just shut down incoming flights and maybe outgoing flights. But there was one that was going to leave, I guess. And we had to get on the manifest. So Chris had figured out how to get us on there. And he said it was literally just like Billy and this person on an

Excel spreadsheet, putting names and stuff. And so Chris got us on there. And then he said, we got to get out of here. There's some, some fans that are showing up. They're going back to the airport. So let's get on here. And, you know, I guess with a chartered flight or private flight, the manifest has to match up, maybe any fight, the manifest has to match up with the people that are on the plane. And I guess people heard us or heard other people getting on this bus to the airport and they went, oh there's a plane out of here and they all just kind of like got in these different little buses. So more people showed up to the airport than were on the manifest and that eventually caused some problems. So Billy was just like get out

of here if you can. Yeah he was like there's a plane you know if you want to stay it'll be fine we'll have some more flights tomorrow or something but you know he's not communicating that to anybody like the stage is up there blaring music and like you saw on the Netflix documentary the stage Producer guy was like they just kept telling me to turn the music up because it's just you know a facade of like it's fine It's fine. Just listen to this, you know pulsating music. It's fine and Not admitting. Okay This isn't what I thought it would be. I'm gonna to get up on stage, take the microphone and tell people,

hey, here's what's going on. There's a bus leaving. You need to check in with this person to get your name on the flight manifest. And if you were able to admit defeat and face reality, maybe you would have made the right choice and used actual tools at your disposal, a massive stage with a sound system that everyone could hear, but instead you just like hit in a house and tried to get a few people on a flight out. Amidst the chaos, a small window of opportunity

opened for Seth and his friends to escape Fire Festival. But even that journey wouldn't be simple, and the emotional toll was just beginning to set in. Seth, at that point, how were you feeling? It was probably a mix of everything, but it didn't end there. Like we just got to the airport and it was 11 o'clock at night. And then we were in the airport for an hour or two. And then it was like, okay, now you can get on the plane.

All right, we're on the plane. And it's like two or three in the morning. The lights are still on. Like I see that my tweets are starting to go viral So I'm like a kid with his iPad like entertained I can like respond to people Oh, this is funny like they're roasting us I thought that was funny and then like I can out for now the lights are off and now it's five We have to get off the plane because the manifest doesn't match up with the people on the plane So we're off the plane. We're standing on the tarmac. It's pitch black out. All right, now we're going to get on one by one. We're going

to check everybody off. And now it's like six in the morning. The pilot's like, oh, we've flown too many hours or we've been on for too many hours. We need a new crew. So get off the plane, go back inside. Then you get like locked in, which I get like the airport people were locking the doors because people just kept walking outside like smoke a cigarette. I don't think that's really safe when literally outside the doors is the runway. This is what the rest of our life is. Finally getting into Miami at like 11 the next morning, I was like, okay, well, that was ridiculous. And it just never ended. It was just like calls and texts

and people wanting interviews and stuff. I was so delirious from lack of sleep. I just said yes to everything. The Netflix and Hulu documentaries captivated the world, exposing the chaos of Fire Festival. But Seth believes there is a much larger, darker story that's still largely untold, one that goes beyond what viewers saw on screen.

I mean, there's just, there's so much of this story. I mean, the director of the Netflix film, Chris Smith had said his original plan was to make like eight or 10 episodes. You know, there was enough footage and enough story there. And that was just from the events into like 2019, early 2019 when the films came out. So like, there's so much that has happened even since then. And I don't know if there's like one specific thing that I would want people to know, but

you know, you could have done a much deeper dive if you had 10 episodes into like, here's another business venture that didn't turn out because it seems like there was a lot of dishonesty involved. It's like a repeat offender of just stupidity and scams. It's a lot. So you think the documentaries didn't go far enough in pulling the thread with what happened in the aftermath? Do you think there's an underrated lesson or an untold story that the documentaries or the media missed? No, I think that the documentary, the Netflix documentary did a fantastic job because it was, here's everything that has happened up until now when we were putting this documentary out.

The public narrative largely centered around those who bought tickets. But Seth brings to light a deeper, more heartbreaking consequence. The unpaid Bahamian workers and local businesses who bore the brunt of the festival's failure. Yeah, yeah. And I mean, I get the way it was portrayed in the media. It's a business and their job is to get people to click and the headline of a bunch of influencers spent $12,000 to go to a thing and they got scammed is gonna get more clicks than like

This many workers didn't get paid to work on this festival Unfortunately, there was a go fund me that was set up to help out that one woman, Mary Ann. I think she needed like 120,000 and she got like 270,000 or something from people donating. So people got screwed. And there's also people in the States that got screwed. There's the t-shirt vendor that there was a $100,000 order of t-shirts or masks or something.

And they made the product and thought this big festival places hundred thousand dollar order let me get on it and then okay well they didn't pay the bill so it's like that happened a lot and like I said I just don't think that that is a catchy story compared to like rich influencers got screwed or Or fake rich influencers. In my case, fake rich influencers, yeah. So. I mean, how did seeing their plight impact you personally to get involved in some of

these efforts after the fact, to continue to talk about it, to continue to keep bringing attention to the different facets of this, the workers that got stiff, the small businesses that didn't get paid? We didn't know any of this going into it. It was only in kind of working on that Netflix documentary that I saw, oh, he didn't pay this woman, and he didn't pay that crew, and he didn't pay this. And so it was great when Chris Smith had said that they're working with the GoFundMe people or the fundraising platform, whatever they used.

We tried to let people know about that, but I don't know, anytime I do one of these interviews, I kind of try to like mention that. I mean, there's not really much you can do nearly 10 years later, but that is sort of like one of the worst parts of the festival. Unlike many of the attendees who joined class action lawsuits, Seth and his friend decided to pursue an independent legal battle. It was a bold move. So I asked him what motivated him to do that. Well, my friend and attorney Stacey Miller, we got back and I think I had tweeted something

at him like as we were trying to leave and I jokingly was like, you're going to be hearing from Stacy Miller or Fyre Festival. And this is before I knew that there was like legit fraud involved. And Stacy actually called me in the airport that morning because he woke up and saw that tweet and was like, where are you? Are you okay? And it's like, yeah, I'll call you when I get back. So he looked at it and he was like, well, this is actually fraud.

And the flame company had an office in North Carolina. So we were able to file our own suit. And that's why we went that route because I mean, a big class action lawsuits going to take five years and you'll get $17. So we did our own, it was Mark and I, and yeah we were able to get a five million dollar judgment against Billy. That is a huge judgment. Is that what you were expecting? No, I had no idea what to expect with all that. I've never done that process. It's been a few years since the lawsuit wrapped up.

Has Billy paid you any of that $5 million judgment? No. We were in the process of dealing with that. How do you deal with that? There's a whole steps you have to take to collect and all that kind of stuff. And then, you know, it doesn't help that I think Billy is the government $26 million right now. So we're in line behind them, you know.

I mean, do you think that this judgment is just going to be symbolic at the end of the day? Something that you can frame on the wall instead of cash in the bank? You never know. I mean, I know. Yeah, it's like an IOU and dumb and dumber. I mean, like, it's not, um... Yeah, we'll see if Billy somehow wins the lottery.

Uh, you know, maybe we'll collect more than, uh, we're anticipating right now. But, you know, it lasts for 10 years, and you can extend it for another 10 years. So, it's gonna be there for a while. Do you have reason to believe or do you hold on to hope that you will see some of that money at some point? Yeah, I mean, you just never know. It's like basically a lottery ticket at this point. And I don't think about it. It's just like, that's a crazy thing that happened and we'll see what happens. At the trial, you described the festival as more than just a scam. It was fraud way over the top.

I mean, given that, what do you think justice looks like to you beyond the dollar amount? Is it Billy held fully accountable in court, calling you, giving you a personal apology. Is there something beyond getting the money back that could make you feel right about what happened? I think that, you know, him paying back the people that got screwed, that worked on the event would be great. I don't know the ins and outs of it, but I think all of his wages are being garnished or something like that. And just like making those people whole would

be great. And you know, there's investors too, that $26 million is investors and a lot of other people that gave him money that are owed money. And I hope that that gets resolved maybe over time. Yeah, I don't really know what else needs to happen with him. And we went to prison and that's not fun. Years after the Fyre Festival collapsed and his time in prison, Billy McFarland announced Fyre Festival 2. When you saw him announce Fire Festival 2 in 2023, what was your initial honest reaction? I mean, it was just like, well, that's about right. I mean, like, it had to happen at some point, you know, no surprises here. That's about right.

As the tickets for Fire 2 actually sold out, shockingly, to some people. Did any of those prospective attendees reach out to you for advice or a reality check? I don't think so. I also just don't check my DMs at all anymore. So if you're listening to this and you DM me, I apologize. I just don't. I don't think anybody, to my knowledge, reached out to ask me anything. I know some people wanted like some media outlets and stuff, wanted quotes and I just like, I don't really care to be in the news about this anymore. Well, thank you for talking about it with me. Is there anything that all of these outlets have seriously missed?

There's deep dives and like platforms like this where it's like you're going to do your research, you're going to look into like what the actual crimes were and then there's just like the all right quick hits we gotta get it out, they paid $12,000 and they're they're just a bunch of influencers all right next story you know and like but then also like you know how it is. It's like, oh, did you hear that the islands for sale on, you know, it's like, let's milk this anything fire festival related.

Like I have Google alerts set up for fire festival and it's just every day. Like the fire festival of book talk, you know, like some event goes poorly and it's just the fire festival of blank. So it will like forever be just associated with things that... Go wrong? Go wrong, yeah. Hi, I'm Mama Jules, your host of Oh No Media's newest podcast, Rise and Crime, your morning caffeine crime hit.

If you're a true crime enthusiast who wants the newest details of current criminal cases, then get your crime caffeine hit with me on Mondays and Thursdays each week. On Rise and Crime, we will create a breakfast club of sorts where we dive into the most recent details of the highest profile cases, as well as those current cases you may know nothing about. Rise and Crime will also provide you updates on those cases that just left that nagging, what happened after everyone stopped paying attention feeling. Let us scratch your need-to-know itch. The best

part is Rise and Crime is available everywhere. Watch us on YouTube, TikTok, and Instagram and listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you catch your favorite podcasts. Looking back, what was the ultimate lesson from the Fyre Festival saga? Well, for Seth, it's a surprising realization about the world of business and perhaps life itself. I think that everybody is just making it up as they go along. That can be good, that can be bad. It obviously depends on like people's intent, but everybody's just making it up. Like everybody that I have talked to, every company that I've worked with, it's like they're all just making it up.

That big like influencer that did this, or that media company that wanted to do that. It's like, they're an established company, they know what they're doing, right? I'm just a guy. And then you're like, okay, they have no idea what they're doing. So everybody just has no idea what they're doing

in every facet of everything. But if you keep trying, you can do good stuff. You can also do bad stuff. By the way, I agree, my time doing this show, I think that we are all making it up. A lot of people in business who have started companies, who run companies, there's a super fine line between the fake it till you make it and then something nefarious. And there's a lot of fake it till you make it and I think the line comes when it turns nefarious because there's always a choice there. There was always a choice for Billy

to stay stuck in the blue house, hide from people or to step on stage and be really honest and be really transparent. And that's the difference. 100%. It's like the culture of America is, fake it till you make it, pull yourself up by bootstraps.

When I started my company, I'd answer the phone and say, hey, this is Steve in sales. You wanna talk to Jim in marketing? Let me transfer you. And then it's just me being Jim in marketing. That's just America 101. It's fine if you're not doing it in a nefarious way,

like you said. I mean, I had like legitimate, very successful people in business as I like started my media empire, just this time, yeah, I figured they make it, you know? I'm like, but I'm not faking anything. Like, I'm doing all this stuff. I'm like putting out this work. SONIA DARA I think it's okay to fake it till you make it. We all have to some extent. I think it's not okay to hurt people in the process. And that's the difference.

That crucial line between ambition and outright harm was ultimately where Fyre Festival imploded. And for you, Seth, like we mentioned earlier, it led to a measure of accountability, a $5 million judgment. Oh, for sure, yeah. I just meant now more than ever, it's easier for people that are gonna be nefarious to do that.

Like, it's so easy. That it's like so much less work to put in into like building a website or doing this or that. Like it's just a lot easier. But yeah, I mean, we got a $5 million judgment. It'd be great if that was like applied to the people that got screwed out of like hard work and money and product and all that.

If you ever got any of that judgment, would you share it with some of those people? Absolutely, yeah. It's not like money that we're relying on, so it will literally be like winning the lottery. I mean, I don't know if it's like winning the lottery. You have a full judgment. Yeah, yeah, maybe I don't, I don't know,

I'm like so close to this story that I don't really like have a grasp on. It would be wonderful to help find people that still need to be paid back. But that's also Billy's job. What do you think his job is? What do you think his responsibility is? His job is to like pay back the people. I'd love to help, but also I didn't do all of that stuff.

It'd be nice to help, but it's like, I want the person who caused all of this to pay the people back. But years later, the Fyre Festival saga continues to unfold, with Billy McFarland now out of prison and able to produce new iterations of the festival, a fundamental question hangs in the air for many of those involved, including Seth. What's the end game with this whole like fire stuff? Because it's like,

is Billy ever going to give this up? But what does that really have to do with me? I don't know. I think it has a lot to do with you. I think you're a victim of Fire Festival and if you continue to use your voice and you continue to remind people, because sometimes we forget and the new cycle is really fast. maybe this new generation didn't follow all the ins and outs of the first one. And so there's a whole other cohort of potential victims that could fall for the same thing all over again. History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme. Yeah. Sounds like we got somewhere. You're re-energized, remissionized.

Should we throw our own festival? Can we do a scams, money, murder festival? I mean, I think if we did, we would at least have snacks. I'm like a brand new mom. I'm like, I want to feed everybody. There's no chance that a festival I threw would not have snacks at least.

I've wanted to do a con con, like comic con, but it's just con artists and like podcasts, maybe podcasts about con artists. There's a lot of them. We could get panels, what not to do. So you think there should be a whole show about financial con artists? Tell me more.

Yeah, I think you're onto something. It's true. I mean, there are a lot of cautionary lessons, but the reason we have so many episodes is because people don't learn from the cautionary tales. Yeah, it's exactly right. And it's really easy to prey on people's insecurities, and especially around money. There's a lot of manipulation. there's a lot of psychological tactics.

Where would you rank this out of like all the things that you've covered? Well, it's a scam. It involved money, but to be fair, it didn't cause bankruptcies and sort of made off style destruction and nobody died. Grander scams, money, murder scale. I would rank it as pretty innocuous. Okay. But also kind of hilarious.

But funny. That's what I was going to say, but funny. And I do appreciate that you have leaned into that and you have found the humor and the ability to laugh at yourself and keep it into perspective that nobody died. I don't think anybody got hurt unless I missed it. Seriously hurt. Yeah. Nobody lost a limb.

Nobody went bankrupt. Nobody lost their life savings. Oh, some people did, but. Who? The investors. Like there was some one couple up in, I think New Jersey or New York, they'd put like their whole retirement, like the $180,000 or something and given it to fire or fire media or something and it was gone. That sucks.

And that breaks my heart. Yeah. And that's a problem with like these stories, like the plan of 10 episodes of a documentary would have gotten into some of that kind of stuff. There are a lot of people in that. I mean, this, I don't know if you will show this on the screen, but like this is just the bankruptcy filing. His bankruptcy filing.

Yeah. I mean, his company was forced into bankruptcy and then it was like the creditors or debt, whatever they're called had to submit their stuff. So what number are you on the list? I don't think we're in that thing. Because this is related to Fire Media or something like that or Fire Festival. I can't remember. So the judgment was against him personally?

Yeah. I do appreciate that you're able to laugh about this and able to continue to shed light if for nothing else but for the sweet couple that lost a lot of their life savings investing in this guy. So Seth, thank you so much for being here today and sharing your story with us. Thank you for having me. Thank you so much for listening. I'm your host, Nicole Levin. Scams, Money and Murder is a Crime House original. Join me every Thursday for a brand new episode. Here at Crime House, we want to thank each and every one of you for your continued support.

If you like what you heard here today, reach out on all social media at Crime House. And don't forget to rate, review and follow Scams, Money and Murder wherever you get your podcasts. Your feedback truly makes a difference. And for ad-free listening plus early access and bonus content, subscribe to Crime House Plus on Apple Podcasts. Scams, Money & Murder is hosted by me, Nicole Lapin, and is a Crime House original powered by Pave Studios. My guest today was Seth Crossrow. This episode was brought to life by the

Scams, Money & Murder team. Max Cutler, Ron Shapiro, Alex Venadon, Stacy Warnker, Sarah Camp, and Paul Lebesque. Hi there, it's Vanessa Richardson. Crime House is your go-to destination for the most gripping true crime shows. On my show Killer Minds, join me and forensic psychologist Dr. Tristan Engels for two new episodes as we dive into the twisted story of the Dr. Death serial killer, Michael Swango. Craving more deep dives into the minds of the world's most dangerous killers? Follow Killer Minds on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you listen.