Money Crimes with Nicole Lapin - INTERVIEW: Jen Shah with Molly McLaughlin

Episode Date: July 31, 2025

Molly McLaughlin was a hopeful entrepreneur looking to build an online business when she invested her savings in a promising scheme. Instead, she lost everything. What Molly didn't know was that the alleged architect of her financial ruin, Jen Shah, would soon become a household name on "The Real Housewives of Salt Lake City." Join Nicole Lapin as she speaks with Molly about the crushing realization that her alleged scammer was a reality TV sensation, the emotional impact of watching Shah's public displays of wealth, and the bittersweet journey through Shah's very public downfall. For more on Jen Shah, check our our episode: CELEBRITY: Reality Housewife Jen Shah on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. Scams, Money, & Murder is a Crime House Original Podcast, powered by PAVE Studios. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. For ad-free listening and early access to episodes, subscribe to Crime House+ on Apple Podcasts. Don’t miss out on all things Scams, Money, & Murder! Instagram: @Crimehouse TikTok: @Crimehouse Facebook: @crimehousestudios X: @crimehousemedia YouTube: @crimehousestudios To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi, it's Kaylyn Moore. Crime House is home to the most gripping true crime shows, and I would love for you to check out my show that I co-host with Morgan Apscher, Clues. Want to sneak past the crime scene tape to explore the key evidence behind some of the most gripping true crime cases? Well, each week on Clues, we open up a new case file and dig into the key evidence that either solved or left authorities baffled behind the most infamous criminal cases. Join us every Wednesday and listen to Clues. on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Crime House.

They saw how extravagant she was on screen, and they were questioning it. If she had hidden it, who knows if she would have ever been caught. As they say, money makes the world go round. What many don't talk about is the time it made people's worlds come to a screeching halt. Whether it's greed, desperation, or a thirst for power, money can make even the most unassuming people do unthinkable things. And sometimes, those acts can be deadly. This is scams, money, and murder, a crimehouse original.

I'm your host, Nicole Lapin. Every Thursday, we alternate between covering infamous money-motivated crimes and gripping interviews with the experts or those who were directly involved themselves. Crimehouse exists because of you. Please rate, review, and follow scams, money, and murder wherever you get your podcasts. And for early ad-free access and bonus content, subscribe to Crimehouse Plus on Apple Podcasts. On the Real Housewives of Salt Lake City, Jen Shaw painted the picture of extravagant wealth.

But under this carefully crafted facade, there was a dark truth. Jen's lavish lifestyle was built on the cruel deception and financial ruin of countless victims. One of those victims is Molly McLaughlin. Today, Molly joins us to recount how she became entangled. in this elaborate scam and what it truly cost her, not just financially, but emotionally. Molly, thank you so much for being with us. Well, thank you for having me. It's a pleasure. We're going to dive a little bit deeper into a tricky, difficult period of your life.

So we really appreciate your willingness to share your story. I'll just dive into it. In 2016, after a few years of financial hardship, it sounds like you were looking for opportunities online so you could work from home. What was your mindset going into that time regarding online work? Like you had said, yeah, I wanted to work online. I was getting kind of tired of having to always go to an office. And since I was spending more and more time at home, I became more of a homebody. And so I wanted to do something where I could work at home, but then still have the freedom to go do stuff that needed to get done. And during that time, you stumbled on something called drop shipping, which is a whole world

in TikTok and Instagram of people saying you can make millions of dollars drop shipping. If somebody doesn't know what that is, can you explain it? Basically, it would be if you would have an ad from a company, depending on who you are working for a lot of times this is as independent, but you would clock into whoever you were hired for, say for that day. And then they would send you this ad that you would then like drop ship into like articles and stuff. So anytime you pull up an article right smack in the middle of you might see an ad, that's drop shipping because they'll drop an ad in there. People then would look at that ad and would click on it and then take it to the website of whatever the product

was. It could be a good way to make some money, you know, because you could drop a lot of ads in a few hours. You could work maybe two, four hours from what I was seen. And you could make several hundred dollars in just two to four hours. Is that what it was about this concept that made you think this could be the next step for your career? Yeah, I saw that and thought, hey, this is something I can do. I could easily spend, again, two to four hours, five days a week, just dropping ads in for companies and then maybe make, say, $500 in, say, that four hours, and then say, okay, I'm done. And then do it the next day and the next day and whatnot. So that by the end of the week, you know, I'm sitting in like, could be a thousand dollars or more and then be able to

repeat it the following week, not a lot of time for a good amount of money. Yeah, for sure. It's a me easy, passive income. When you saw the initial $100 cost for training, what went through your mind? Did it feel reasonable or any alarm bills at that time? I think I had maybe a slight question mark go off, but for the most part, I thought, oh, You know, that doesn't seem too bad. You know, I've had to pay for online classes and stuff before, and I figured, oh, $100 is pretty reasonable. You take two rapid classes, you're paying more. It didn't seem that outrageous, at least at the time.

But once they had Molly's initial investment, the real game began. The conversation quickly shifted from simple drop shipping to a grander vision of owning her very own online business. So what happened after Molly paid the initial hundred bucks? They basically did talk to me about the drop shipping and then they were kind of smooth about it and said, you know, hey, have you thought about your own online business? Which at the time I had and I was like, oh, that's not a bad idea. Then they just kind of start showing you the benefits, telling you how much money you can make. Again, it's one of those things where once it's set up and everything, you really don't have to do much work because you would have the product on your

website, but all of the business would be through the company. So you'd have your website set up, let's say you were going to sell shoes or something, and you would have it set up. People would see the shoes. They'd click on the shoes. You, of course, wouldn't keep the items in dock, it would then take you to whoever, you know, produced the shoes and then they would drop ship it. Yeah. So drop shipping also refers to how a product is fulfilled. Correct. You don't actually hold the inventory. A warehouse holds it. They ship it out. And at that point, you're referring to they. Who did you understand they to be at the time? At the time, the company was called Internet Teaching and Training Specialists. And they were the ones who were

kind of showing me the ropes and teaching me how to have a successful website and a successful online business. Molly believed she was working with a legitimate company, learning the ropes from experts. But internet teaching and training specialists was just one of the many names these scammers operated under. And Molly was about to be introduced to a much more expensive tier of their store. services. But first, she needed to decide how bad she wanted it. So you bought into this idea of starting your own online business. They told you, you need a niche. You landed on clocks and

mirrors. Why clocks and mirrors? I like clocks. I like mirrors. I thought, hey, you know, people can always have more clocks or have more mirrors. Also, because one thing they had said, you know, to create your website and to get on the front page, you want to have something more unique. You know, you type in silver dress shoes or something, you're going to get a thousand hits, if not more. So things like clocks, things like mirrors, yeah, people are going to shop for clocks and mirrors, but it might not be as frequent as shopping for clothes or shoes. So they wanted you to have something more unique that people could find quicker. And the person you spoke with showed you their website and no red flags at that point, right?

No alarms. It all sounded pretty legit. Correct. Yes. I don't remember what it was, but I know I was pretty impressed by it. I thought, oh, this is a nice website that he has. I believe I had some into his sports. Were there any specific details or assurances that they gave you that made you feel secure and convinced that they were legit?

They said the tools that they would show me and teach me would get me on the front page of Google. And I thought, oh, that's pretty good. So that they would hit things up, I guess maybe in their algorithms or whatnot. So again, someone types in a certain type of clock. Boom, you show up. Maybe you're first on Google or second, but it's showing you there on that front page. With Molly now fully invested in the dream of her own online business and the promise of a coveted spot on Google's front page, the real pitch began.

While many of these companies offered tiered programs, their strategy is always to push for the most expensive option. For Molly, that was a $10,000 program. They immediately went right to the $10,000, which, of course, in retrospect, I feel like, was a red flag. Because, you know, some people might not want all of the bells and whistles, and they might want smaller things. What did they tell you to try to get you to pay $10,000? They said, when you're sharing your own business, you do have to spend some money. And they used the example of when someone starts a business and they have a brick and mortar location.

obviously you're going to spend money for brick and mortar location and you're going to spend a lot. So they were trying to assay any fears that you would have with 10,000 because 10,000 is still a lot by basically saying, you know, you are online. You don't have a physical location. It's going to cost you money to start your own business, but not as much. as a physical building. The argument that you have to spend money to make money on the oldest tricks in the book, did you have to make the decision quickly? Did they give you time to think about it?

Did they put pressure on you to commit at that time? They did. You know, it was one of those where, yeah, you couldn't really sleep on it and everything. You had to go ahead and make the decision, which of course, when it comes to something financial like that, you should never do. you should always sleep on it. So another red flag right there. They were definitely putting the pressure on to get you to sign up for the largest package

and not really giving you the time to think about it too much, all the while trying to persuade you and say, hey, you know, this is a great idea. And you'll save so much and look at how much you'll make. You'll make it all back in a year. The pressure to make immediate decisions without any time to think about it or consult with anyone else is a classic hallmark of a scam. It creates a false sense of urgency, which prevents victims from realizing they're being rushed into a financially devastating decision. So what did they say to get Molly to commit right then and there?

Unfortunately, I don't remember that part, but I think it was kind of like a limited opportunity that wasn't going to. to stick around so they put the pressure on you to sign up and not give you the time because you know obviously they're worried if they allow you time to think about it you're going to say no and then they can't scam you it's a very very common scam tactic for sure to create this false sense of urgency so after mollie you invested the initial 10 grand which is a lot of money You found out that your information was sold to other things, other companies that started calling you and pressuring you to buy more programs and more things. Can you explain how that happened, how quickly that happened, how you realized that that was going on? Basically the next day. We got things set up initially and then the next day other companies were calling and saying, you know, hey, we heard, you know, you're going to have a way. website and then starting to kind of talk to you about things you will need and how they can help

improve the website and the business to get you to that front page of Google and to get you to be successful and make all this money. So they were calls that were ancillary to what you spent 10 grand on, website services, SEO products, those types of things. Correct. And how How much did you end up spending on those products? Total lost was about $44,000 with all of the companies that I had talked to. Did you have $44,000? Nope. Where did you get it? I was always one that was good with credit cards and stuff, and so I had a hide limit on a few credit cards. I would put the purchases. on that, which was another tactic that they used. They would say, you know, put it on a credit card or open up another one and do that. So I would open up a credit card and put maybe there would be a couple thousand on that

card. So, hey, there's $5,000 on this card. Put that on the card and then that could possibly pay for what you're doing or it'll be a start, you know, and then we'll move to the next card for you to put the rest on. So you said you were good with credit cards. Until then, had you accumulated any debt? Or it sounds like you were paying them off so they were increasing your limit. You had the flexibility because of good behavior to now accumulate debt. Correct. Yeah, I always kept them low. I might have a couple hundred on there, but then I would always turn around and pay it off in a reasonable amount

time. I mean, as someone who's been in a massive amount of debt myself and then getting out of it, never wanting to go back, can you walk me through the emotional experience of now going into this much debt after not being in it? You have fear, you have uncertainty. At the time, there was also a bit of excitement because, you know, before obviously knowing that it was a scam and thinking, oh, I'm going to have my own business. I remember telling that to my boyfriend and being all excited about what was going to happen but definitely fear and worry especially as more companies called and wanted money and oh yeah okay well I need these products because like we were discussing they're very good at persuading you into things you really don't need

But they'll say, oh, you'll need this for your website. This is what will make you stand out and people will remember it. You want that. As time went on, I started fear and a bit of disgust, actually. And sometimes I even felt physically sick, especially knowing that things were increasing and nothing was getting done. The excitement Molly initially felt quickly turned to dread. as the promises of her own online business remained unfulfilled, and the financial burden grew heavier with each passing day.

What were the first red flags that started to creep up telling you something was seriously wrong? One company was pressuring. I had given him like half the payment. It was for the blog, which doesn't really make much sense. But again, it was one that was where I thought, well, maybe it's something you could do. Some websites do have blogs where you can read people's stories. It might be something fun. I'd given half the payment on that and obviously didn't have the money.

Things were increasing. And he was pressuring for more. Things were starting to go off in my head about that because, you know, I was telling him I don't have it. My cards are maxed. And everything just kind of spiraled at that point. I started realizing that this was not something that a legit business should be trying to help others with. So you were running the business at this point? Supposedly.

I mean, it never got off the ground. They had designed, like a mock website and everything, and that was about as far as we got. So how long did you keep trying to make the business work or get off the ground after you started noticing the red flags? Just a few months, like three to four months maybe. Once things really started to come into perspective, I just stopped. With internet teaching and training, we had been taking classes. There was like 12 or 16 classes that you would take to teach you how to get to where. your webpage on Google and, you know, tools you'd need to have a successful business. And I know

at one point, I believe I just skipped the meeting where I sent a message to my coach and I said, hey, I'm not going to be able to make it. And then, you know, I just didn't respond back to any attempts after that because I thought, nope, I can't do this. This is not real. This is not legit. So you never actually sold a mirror or a clock. Correct, yeah. I had reached out to a couple of companies about, you know, collaborating, having them possibly sell on the website, but it never even got that far. The website never even really went live. We just had the mock website up. I had bought the domain name. They just kind of showed me what it was going to look like. But I don't think it would actually go live until you know you had finished all the classes was there something specific

that made you ultimately walk away from the scam entirely or was it just the accumulation of so many oddities and red flags the amount of money yeah and the red flags basically the thing that really struck a chord was one of the companies was looking kind of like at the algorithms and everything. And he said, this code isn't written right. You're not going to get on the front page of Google what this. And I thought, they said that I would. And the guy said, no, you're not. And to be fair, some of these companies that they were affiliated with might not have even known that these guys were scams. Some of these could literally be legit companies. And so, you know, obviously they're just doing their job, which is what I think.

happen with this guy. Because obviously, if he was part of this scam, I don't think he would have said that. Maybe he would have as a way to try to get more money. But the way he said it, I thought, this isn't right. These guys are supposed to create this website so that it'll be there front page of Google somewhere. And this guy is saying that the algorithms are all Yeah, you're like, that was what I paid for. Yeah. So what steps did you take after that? Did you report it? At the time, I didn't really know where to go or how to report it. So I basically just kind of stopped and just tried to figure out a way to start paying off the debt that I had then increased. You just wanted to cut your losses. Basically. Because like I said, I mean, this was back in 2016. I was a little more naive than I am now. And so while most people would think, oh, I'm going to go ahead and report them, for me, it just really didn't enter into my head. And I think also part of it was just at least at the time I also didn't want the hassle of figuring out where to go to report and things like that. Nowadays, it wouldn't be a problem. I would report with no hesitation. Yeah. You've lived a lot of life in those 10 years. Yeah. It's funny how, you know, perspectives could change.

While Molly grappled with the immediate aftermath, the scam had actually unlocked a Pandora's box of issues for her. The journey to recovery would be far more complicated than she ever could have imagined. At one point, while everything was going on and feeling in debt and everything, I had been contacted by a couple of. company. I will point out that sometimes, I guess a lot of these companies, fraud companies, are more out west. I've heard like Utah and stuff like that, which Utah makes sense, Jen Shaw. They operate out there. But I was contacted by someone in Florida who claimed that they would help get my money back and trusted them at the time and turned out they were part of the scam as well. So that part was fun.

Oh, my God. When was that? 2016. And only found out because the FTC had told me, because I mentioned to him, oh, I was working with this company. And they said, no, they're part of it. Did you give them money? Yeah, unfortunately. Because their goal was you pay them and that they were kind of like investigators.

And they investigate these companies and take them down. And they knew all about it and everything. But, yeah, nothing ever happened, and they kept asking for more money. That's unthinkable. So not only did they scam you, but then they scammed you to try and help you from their own scam. There's a special place in hell for those people. Yeah. And what process did you go through to address the 44K?

Like I said, I would try to pay it off. You know, I'd get my paycheck, and then I'd go and make. whatever payment I could maybe pay on like two cards one week and then two other cards the next week, obviously to pay down what I could. I did try to see about possibly doing like a consolidation loan just to get everything under one roof. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to get one. And sometimes it was, you know, asking people, I think I did ask my parents. for a bit of money one time just so I could make some of the payments. So yeah, basically it was just, you know, asking for money, trying to pay what I can, sometimes even purposely delaying a

month or two, and then trying to make up that way when you might have like a little extra money. I mean, spending so much of your paycheck to pay down debt must have a ripple effect on your daily life. How did it affect how you're living? It was quite horrible. I was having trouble making my rent. So I'd have to maybe ask my parents or ask my boyfriend, you know, hey, can you help me out this month? I know at one point I was so broke. My account was negative. And I remember I was in my bed at night crying because I had a migraine and I couldn't even afford headache medicine. So I was like, I can't do this. I should be able to go buy like a four or five dollar bottle of extended migraine to help with my migraine. And I'm sure the migraine was because

of all of this. Yeah. When you were asking people to help you, did you feel embarrassed that you got caught up in this drop-chipping scam. How did you talk about it? Did you tell your friends and family about it? Yeah, I remember mentioning it to my parents. I think they understood, but they're also older, so technology can still be kind of confusing for them. So I don't think they totally understood where I was coming from, but obviously they understood it was a scam. But I felt ashamed and a lot of times I didn't really talk about it. You know, I might make vague posts on Facebook and stuff like that. How vague are we talking? Like a random quote? Well, at one point I had a meme of like someone who was in water drowning. All you could see is like their hand. And basically

I said, you know, this is me right now or something, just kind of drowning because of drowning in debt. I was showing my shame, basically, because obviously I felt bad about it and the only way to kind of get it out sometimes was social media where you can talk to people. Again, my parents didn't really understand. My boyfriend was sympathetic. You know, he did what he could. But, you know, even asking him, I'm the type of person that is like, I don't like to ask for my you know, I don't like the thought of being in debt. And suddenly, not only that, was I $44,000 in debt,

but then I was also kind of in debt to him, too, in a way, because he was helping me out. It's so hard to ask for help and it's so complicated to ask for money. I was just curious about the post that you did at the time because I didn't know if you had talked specifically about the company at that point publicly? I had not. I mean, I might have said one or two things in passing, but I hadn't really posted anything. I don't even think I went to the Better Business Bureau to see. I know for a few of the companies, I did check if they had like a rating or something, but I didn't really do anything. I didn't really warn people because no one else really was

in my situation. So I kind of felt alone in that respect as well. In January of 2008, real estate agent Lindsay Busiak received a call from a woman who said that she and her husband were urgently seeking a home with a budget of $1 million. Eager for the commission a deal like this would bring, Lindsay found the perfect home and set up a showing. Just one hour after this showing, Busiak's colleagues found her lying in a pool of blood in the master bedroom with multiple stab wounds. To this, this day, the case remains unsolved. I'm Savannah Brimer, host of the True Crime podcast Killer Instinct, the research-backed show that covers cases like Lindsay's and aims to bring justice to the families of victims of

horrific crimes. Each month, I explore a new sector of true crime, from serial killers to stalkers to female killers. For each case, I break down the moments leading up to the crime, debunk past theories, and share the experiences of those affected by these tragedies. Join me every Wednesday as I unveil the truth behind some of the darkest cases in history. Listen and subscribe to Killer Instinct wherever you get your podcasts. But as more information about this scam came to light, Molly discovered that she actually wasn't alone.

It turned out that a lot of people had fallen victim to the same scheme. And then, in 2020, a major public figure emerged. connected to it all. Jen Shaw from the Real Housewives of Salt Lake City. Before all the news broke, did Molly have any idea who Jen Shaw was? No. I never had any interest in any of the Real Housewives shows. So when her name was first mentioned, I thought, who is that? I have no clue you're talking about.

So unfortunately, in that sense, no. I mean, in a way, I feel like it's good that I didn't know because then I didn't feel like I was scammed in that sense. But at the same time, I was just, did feel kind of like an idiot for not knowing who she was either. Listen, I've never seen a real housewives of any city show, so you're definitely not alone. But in 2022, you actually connected your experience to what Jen Shaw did and was later arrested for and sentenced to prison for, How did you make that realization? How did you connect the dots? I think it was ABC Night or News Night. I don't remember the exact name, but one of them had reached out to me because Jen had just been convicted. And they had wanted to talk to me about it. And so when the reporter mentioned Jen's name, that was the only way I knew that she had had anything to do with it. And then I started, kind of connecting the dots and then watching their program that they had had, I saw more and

more. And I thought, yeah, that is definitely the program that scanned me out of my money. And what was that moment like for you? I mean, did you see her lavish life play out on the screen once you connected those dots. And as you were watching that lavish display of wealth and excess, how did that make you feel about your own experience and how she got all that wealth and excess? Once I connected the dots, I started to feel disgust and a bit of anger. And especially when seeing her flaunting her wealth,

you know, I know people were even saying on set that they didn't know how she could afford her stuff. And so seeing her walking around acting all superior and, you know, sporting like a new bag or maybe a necklace that cost more than people's cars, I started to feel, you know, definitely a bit of anger, but again, mainly disgust. And also frustration that she was allowed to get away with this. I mean, she may have loved. ultimately been caught, but she did still get away with it for years. So then it just kind of all came out and was not pretty. It was just like you're the one who screwed me and other people out of their money. Yeah. And you're on screen enjoying the fruits of fraudulent businesses while

you, Molly, and so many others potentially are grappling with the aftermath of the scam and even a cycle of debt. And not even being sorry about it, you know, I mean, flaunting her wealth and everything, you know, just obviously proud of what she had done. Did you want an apology? It would be nice, but it would be superficial. She wouldn't mean it. She would only be sorry that she got caught. So when her public fall started, the arrest, the charges, the guilty plea, what was your reaction?

I mean, you're smiling now. when she was found guilty it was a sense of relief because it's that good her companies are being shut down and the mastermind behind it will finally be put in jail some justice has been served you know i knew that it wouldn't be getting the money back but you know sometimes you have to accept small victories and obviously, you know, the big victory would be everyone getting their money back exactly what they paid. But I was just happy in the fact that she was found guilty and would be spending time there in prison. It did feel like a victory and closure. From your perspective as a victim, do you think that that big public persona she had in the way she flound? wanted all her money on reality TV played a role in the downfall or even in her being caught? I think so because they saw how extravagant she was on screen and they were questioning it.

If she had hidden it, who knows if she would have ever been caught. She might have been, but it would have been harder. She was pretty blatant about it, walking around in carrying Gucci bags and flaunting all of this money, it made it fairly obvious that something was going on on the side, especially since people involved in the show knew her well were also questioning and saying what's going on here. Have you been contacted for any sort of opportunity to get your money back? I was contacted by the FTC and they were the ones, you know, opening cases on these companies. This was prior to me, knowing that Jen was involved and said, there's going to be class action lawsuits going on,

you know, these people are scammers. We are going to try to fight for you guys. It was a slow process because the FTC had to gather a bunch of information and obviously things like that take time. But there was a little bit of payback with that. And so it's a little bit of payback with that. And so at least with that, with these companies being forced to pay. Some were shut down. But as the agent had said to me, you know, a lot of times they just shut down and then they opened as a different company under a different DBA and they just keep doing it and they never really stop. So I could look them up and maybe not see their name. It doesn't mean that they're not still around. They're just doing it under a different name. Yeah. It can be a game of whack-a-mole for

authorities. So you never got any money? I got probably about $300, $350, I think total from everything returned. From the FTC or class action? From the class action. They had sent the initial check and then I guess they had sent a little bit of a second round a little later, which obviously wasn't as much. But yeah, I think in total everything was like $350 back. Wow. Which I thought, hey, at least it's something, but, you know, compared to $44,000, it's just kind of like, all right. Drop in the bucket. Is there any additional opportunity to recoup the rest of the money? Not that I know of, you know, unless Jen would reach out to me and write me a check. I don't think so, because I haven't heard anything. from the FTC in a while, so I'm assuming that their cases are done, at least in this sense.

You know, they're probably on to the next one. I know when I did receive that second check, it was a bit of a surprise when they sent the letter saying, hey, there was a bit of a balance left over. So here's your second half. I thought, oh, all right. Another $300 or totaling $300? totaling 300. I think the second check, it wasn't that much. It was maybe 50 at the most. If even that, I was grateful to get something back. But unless these companies are still writing out checks about 10 years later, I don't think we would really get any of the money back. Were you able to get out of the debt? Yes, I had to file bankruptcy to get out of it.

I'm so sorry. How long ago did you file bankruptcy? That was in 2017, so it'll be eight years in September. For Molly, who always prided herself on being responsible with her money, it felt like a profound public admission of failure. But by this point, with options exhausted and debt crushing, it wasn't a choice she made lightly. It was the absolute last recourse, a desperate, painful, yet ultimately necessary plea for a fresh start from rock bottom.

You basically fill out paperwork and work down like everything you own. And I did remember kind of worrying, thinking to myself, well, I have this really nice piece of jewelry. What if somehow I'd have to get rid of it? What if they would take it or something? You know, not knowing maybe somehow I would get punished, even though I'm the one filing bankruptcy. Maybe I would have to end up paying someone for something that got missed. So there was a bit of fear with it. But with doing bankruptcy, it also felt relief, knowing that the nightmare I was having

with these companies who were calling and demanding money, knowing that that was going to be ending. So you had no other choice but to file at that point? Correct. Yeah. I had literally at that point. hit rock bottom um i mentioned earlier i had tried for a consolidation loan there was a couple other avenues i tried i remember being on the phone with this one guy and it was not exactly called

consolidation loan but it was something similar to it and he said you know at this point you don't qualify because my credit had already been ruined because of the debt and he was telling me like, well, my payment would be for them to help. And I said, you know what? I don't have any choice. I'm going to have to file bankruptcy. I said, there's nothing else I can do. There's no other avenues.

And I looked around to see what there were. I tried, you know, credit counseling, debt management, things like that. And just nothing worked. And so I knew that I was at the end and bankruptcy was going to be the only, How has bankruptcy affected your life in those eight or nine years? Have you had trouble with housing jobs? Honestly, no. The first year or so, just for fun, because I was curious, I did try to apply for a couple of credit cards, knowing full well what the answer was going to be. but I was just curious, you know, that maybe, maybe someone will let me have one.

And, of course, yeah, there was, there was nothing. I had during that time moved in with my boyfriend, so luckily debt was reduced that way because I was now living with him. And then after that, like the second year, things started turning around. I once again tried it with a credit card and actually was approved for one. And I noticed that my score had been going up and everything. And so I'm kind of wondering if maybe with these reporting agencies, maybe they had been told this was fraud.

And this person wasn't irresponsible. It was just fraud. And so maybe in a way it helped me. I'm not sure. But luckily, it hasn't really affected. my life in a negative way too much. Just, you know, that initial year, year and a half is your time to kind of recover from everything.

Looking back, Molly recognizes that her vulnerability stemmed from a desire for independence and a genuine need for flexible work. Her scammers expertly exploited those exact hopes and dreams. At the time, I was looking for online work I had been let go of a previous job, actually a couple of years prior, and had kind of been struggling ever since then, mainly working part-time, to be honest. So I think that's why I kind of became susceptible because I was trying to find something else,

something that I could do by myself, kind of be like my boss. I knew about scams at the time. I was always very cognizant that a lot of online postings can be scams. Obviously, not all. There are plenty of online jobs, and there are more now that are legit than ever. So I was always aware of that. But it was just something that I saw and thought, oh, I can do this. You know, I also don't have skills that some people have.

You know, some people are really good, like, at art. and they can, their graphic designers or whatnot, and I didn't have that. So I wanted to work on what I felt I could do. So when I saw drop shipping, I thought, oh, yeah, that'll be easy. And so unfortunately then kind of got cut up in the whole thought of, oh, having my own online business. That sounds great. And being a bit naive to the fact that this was a scam.

The website I looked at had testimonials from people, and that's kind of what sold me because I thought, well, no one's going to put their name in their face to a scam. So I thought, well, this has to be legit at this point. Are they fake? Yeah, that's kind of what told me, oh, all right. Obviously, I wouldn't make that mistake now. What kind of advice would you give someone who might be in a similar vulnerable position in their life or career, looking for opportunities online.

Do your research. There are articles that come out like every year or every quarter where they talk about the 10 best online jobs that are legitimate. Check these out. Read these articles.

These people have obviously at least done some research into checking these to make sure that they are real. And then if you see one you like, go to the Bear Business Bureau, see if they have a rating. I know not every company does, and that's fine, but that might at least give you a hint. Check the FTC to see if maybe there's any lawsuits or something. And of course, you know, check word of mouth. Nowadays, social media is

so much more prevalent than it was back then. You know, nowadays you can check Facebook and Instagram and, you know, TikTok and everything and try to get people's opinions on it that way. You know, you might even go on TikTok and say, hey, I'm curious in this company. And three people might come out and say, oh, no, it's a scam, you know, this took me. Or they may say, no, it's perfectly fine. Go for it. So definitely use social media if you're considering an online company. What's the ultimate message you hope to be sending to others by sharing your story?

it's okay your feelings are valid it's okay to feel how you feel if you've been in a similar situation you are perfectly okay to feel frustrated scared upset those are all legit and honestly I would say to someone if you are in a similar situation and you're drowning in debt do look at bankruptcy if that can be what frees you I do think it should be a last resort, but, you know, for people who are drowning, you do have that option. And after that, just show the world what you're made of. Show them that this scam, whatever the scam is, did not break you. Come out of it stronger and better.

So that way, if the scammers do ever run into you, you can show them. that you won. You have a YouTube channel now. Do you feel like you won in taking back your online footprint on your own terms? Yes, I would say so. You know, it's nice being able to be out there and knowing that at least what I'm doing is real and I don't have to really answer to someone and I know what I'm getting and what I'm doing. I don't have to feel afraid of decisions and worry that I'm going to get a call every five minutes from a creditor. How do we get you on the front page of Google? If you can figure it out, let me know.

But that's not your goal now. If you could say one thing to Jen Shaw today, what would it be? Stay in prison. No, I'm just kidding. You didn't break me. Granted, she has no idea who I am, but I would basically say on behalf of the thousands of people that you scammed, you were the one who lost none of us. Have you been in touch with other victims? I have not, but I'm sure they're out there.

While Molly herself hadn't connected with other victims, their stories are out there, and they paint an even more harrowing picture. The financial devastation wrought by these scams often leads to a profound emotional toll. And for some, the consequences were truly unthinkable. Trigger warning, please be aware that the next part of our conversation will touch upon the topic of suicide. Feel free to skip ahead about one minute. From one of the stories that I saw, I do know, sadly, that one of the victims did end up taking his life because of what happened. that made me cry when I heard that. But I myself do not know any victims.

If there's a support group, hey, let's all get together and share our stories. I also heard that they were targeting the elderly, which I believe is the worst of the worst. Yeah, unfortunately, the person who took his life, he was elderly. I don't know his exact age, but yeah, he was elderly. And it's obviously sad when anyone does that. It seems, I don't know, there's like an extra layer of sad when they're elderly. And they feel like that's the only way that they can escape. It's hard to even process the depth of the tragedy, knowing what happened to some of the other victims of this scam.

So, when Jen Shaw was finally convicted and sentenced to six and a half years in prison, there was a sense of closure for some, while others felt it wasn't nearly enough. Now, Jen Shaw's sentence has been reduced, and she's currently projected to be released as early as September of 2026. For Molly, having endured such profound and life-alterating impacts from this scam, what kind of emotions does this news bring up for her? Annoyance, irritation, and also kind of a bit of, I don't know if this is actually an emotion, but the whole figure's, that kind of attitude, because it seems that someone like her, even if she is in prison, is still going to kind of get her way since her sentence was reduced. She's not going to do the full six years, which honestly I didn't feel was long enough anyways.

She, in a way, still kind of wins. She may have been sent to prison, but she'll be getting out sooner and being able to return to her lifestyle. before. Hopefully not as lavish, but she'll still be able, you know, to return back to her life and doing what she does best. If it was up to you, what would an appropriate sentence for her be? Probably 15 years. Yeah. Maybe that seems a little harsh with it being a white color crime, but with the thousands of people that were defrauded, I would say at least 15 years, if not more. Maybe some people would argue and say, no, she should have 20. And maybe some would say, no, or sentence is fine. You know, we're all different. But to me, 15 sounds like it would be more justified. But that's just my opinion. Molly, thank you so much for sharing your story with us and really walking us through this is difficult, but ultimately triumphant time.

I thank you guys so much for having me. And I'm glad to share the story, you know. Jen can stay. in jail, but I feel nice that I'm the one that gets to kind of come out and tell my story. Hopefully I can prevent someone from being taken in by her or someone else in the future. Thank you so much for listening. I'm your host Nicole Lapin. Scams, Money, and Murder

is a Crimehouse original. Join me every Thursday for a brand new episode. Here at Crime House, we want to thank each and every one of you for your continued support. If you like what you heard here today, reach out on all social media at Crimehouse. And don't forget to rate, review, and follow Scams, Money, and Murder, wherever you get your podcasts. Your feedback truly makes a difference. And for ad-free listening plus early access and bonus content, subscribe to Crimehouse Plus on Apple Podcasts.

Scams, Money and Murder is hosted by me, Nicole Lapin, and is a Crimehouse original powered by Pave studios. My guest today was Molly McLaughlin. This episode was brought to life by the Scams Money and Murder team. Max Cutler, Ron Shapiro, Alex Venadon, Stacey Warnker, Sarah Camp, and Paul Liebeskin. Looking for your next listen from our Crime House slate of shows, don't miss Murder True Crime Stories. Carter Roy is looking into one of the most haunting, mysterious, unsolved cases out there,

the boy in the box. Listen to you and follow Murder True Crime Stories every Tuesday and Thursday on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon music, or wherever you listen.