Money Crimes with Nicole Lapin - The D.C. Snipers

Episode Date: July 10, 2026

In the fall of 2002, a series of seemingly random shootings paralyzed the Washington, D.C. area. No one knew where the next bullet would strike—or why. In Part 1, Vanessa and Dr. Engels break down the early attacks, the public terror, and the frantic race to stop an invisible threat.Follow Serial Killers & Murderous Minds for part 2 of this episode: https://pod.link/1769285458If you’re new here, don’t forget to follow Scams, Money, & Murder to never miss a case! To hear episodes ad-free, subscribe to Crime House+. Join at crimehouseplus.com or if you’re listening on Apple Podcasts, tap “Try Free” at the top of this show’s page. Scams, Money, & Murder is a Crime House Original Podcast, powered by PAVE Studios.🎧 Need More to Binge? Listen to other Crime House Originals Clues, Crimes Of…, Crime House 24/7, Serial Killers & Murderous Minds, Murder True Crime Stories, and more wherever you get your podcasts!Follow me on SocialInstagram: @CrimehouseTikTok: @CrimehouseFacebook: @crimehousestudiosX: @crimehousemediaYouTube: @crimehousestudios

Hi, listeners, it's Vanessa. Before today's episode, I want to take a brief moment to tell you about a show from Crime House's sister studio, Rewind, that I know you'll love. It's called Government That Doesn't Suck, hosted by professors Lindsay Cormack and Greg Jackson from History That Doesn't Suck. Ever wonder how the weather forecast on your phone is so accurate, or how your mail still gets across the country for less than a dollar? Or who actually built the highway you drove on this morning?

Each episode tells the surprising story of an American institution that you'll never look at the same way again. Listen to and follow Government That Doesn't Suck every other Monday on Apple Podcasts and Spotify, or watch video episodes on YouTube. This is Crime House. We all like knowing someone has our back, whether it's a friend or a family member. It's important to know they'll be there through the good times and the bad. Otherwise, life can feel daunting, and when people feel alone, they can make bad decisions. In the early 2000s, Lee Boyd Malvo desperately wanted someone to be there for him, and eventually, a man named John Muhammad stepped up to the plate.

John gave Lee everything he'd been longing for, a listening ear, a shoulder to cry on, and a safe place to rest his head. Lee couldn't live without John. However, he only knew one side of him. And once John had Lee wrapped around his finger, he roped him into one of the most shocking killing sprees in American history. The human mind is powerful. It shapes how we think, feel, love, and hate.

But sometimes it drives people to commit the unthinkable. This is serial killers and murderous minds, a crimehouse original. I'm Vanessa Richardson. And I'm forensic psychologist Dr. Tristan Engels. Every Monday and Thursday, we uncover the darkest minds in history, analyzing what makes a killer. Crimehouse exists because of listeners like you. Want even more?

Join Crimehouse Plus and get both parts of every story dropped on the same Monday. Completely ad-free. No waiting three days for part two plus crimehouse bonus episodes every month. To join, go to CrimehousePlus.com. Or if you listen on Apple Podcasts, tap, try free at the top of the serial killers and murderous minds page. Before we get started, please be advised that this episode contains discussion of animal abuse, child abuse, spousal abuse, suicide, gun violence, and murder.

So please listen with care. Today, we're beginning our deep dive into Lee Boyd Malvo and John Muhammad, better known as the D.C. snipers. In the early 2000s, John and Lee terrorized the Washington D.C. Metropolitan area and the rest of the nation. They killed almost 20 innocent victims and injured even more, all so that John could get to his real target, his ex-wife. But despite all of John's planning, a series of careless mistakes finally brought them down.

As Vanessa goes through this story, I'll be talking about things like how growing up in an unstable and violent household can make someone more susceptible to emotional manipulation down the road. how master manipulators play the victim to control others, and how some killers justify extreme violence. And as always, we'll be asking the question, what makes a killer? Hey, Ontario, come on down to BetMGM Casino

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From a young age, Lee had dreams of becoming a pilot one day, and Leslie watched happily whenever his son flew around the room with outstretched arms. Una, on the other hand, expected her son to work hard. She set impossible standards for him, like learning to read when he was just three years old. Una made Lee study words until he could barely stay awake. And if he made a mistake, she'd pinch or even hit him. Whenever Una lost her temper, Leslie stepped in to defend Lee, and Lee only felt safe around his dad. But unfortunately, he was about to lose that sense of comfort,

because in 1990, when Lee was five years old, his parents' relationship hit rock bottom. Una accused Leslie of cheating on her. She emptied their joint bank account, then fled to her sister's house in St. Anne, 50 miles from Kingston, taking Lee with her. Lee was terrified at the thought of being away from his dad, but whenever Leslie tried to visit,

Una wouldn't let them see each other. A year after their split, in the summer of 1991, Leslie tried one more time. He showed up in St. Anne's with a present for Lee. This time, Una relented and she let the two of them go on a walk together. Leslie was thrilled. During their walk, he gave Lee his gift, a military-style flight jacket perfect for an aspiring pilot.

Lee knew his dad would never give up on him. He wanted to leave with him that day and stay with him instead of his mom. But when it was time for Leslie to go, he left Lee with Una, and the little boy was crushed. As he watched his dad disappear into the distance, he began to wonder if his father did truly love him. Lee is just five years old. A five-year-old doesn't have the cognitive or emotional. maturity to understand parental separation or divorce, or why a parent is absent, why visits stop, why relationships change, or why he can't just stay with his father. So unfortunately,

he personalizes it. And in Lee's case, the parental dynamics between parents are vastly different, which complicates that. And from what you described, his mother sounds emotionally cold and highly demanding. But his father is warm and nurturing. That's a very stark context. That's a very stark contrast, and it's no wonder why he favored his father. So in that moment, being returned to what felt like a cold environment after experiencing a warm one could feel like an abandonment, even when that isn't what actually occurred. Disruptions in important attachments can affect a child's sense of safety, insecurity, in trust, as well as their self-worth. Some children become anxious about rejection. Some become hypervigilant to signs that people might leave them. Others become, especially

vulnerable to seeking acceptance, belonging, or approval from others later in their lives. It depends on how they perceive the abandonment. And in this case, Lee is perceiving that he's not loved or valued. So he's likely going to be vulnerable to seeking that acceptance and approval later in life. And as always, here is the nuance and the caveat. None of this means a child is destined for problems and certainly not violence, simply because their parents separated. Most children of divorce do not go on to commit crimes or develop serious psychological difficulties. What matters is how the child interprets the loss, whether they have supportive relationships, and whether they continue to feel loved and secure despite the changes around them.

Is it possible that Una's actions as his mom affect how Lee interprets love as he gets older? Absolutely. Children learn about relationships by experiencing them. For example, some children learn from their caregivers that love feels safe and supportive and secure, whereas others learn that love is unpredictable, conditional, or tied to obedience and approval. So if a child's emotional needs are inconsistently met like Lee's seem to be, they may grow up feeling uncertain about their worth in relationships or become especially motivated to gain acceptance from important people in their lives. Again, none of this determines a person's future, but early relationships are often how children come to understand relationships in their adulthood.

Now that Leslie was gone, Una was Lee's entire world, and it was miserable. Her abuse only got worse with time. Sometimes she verbally abused him by putting him down and blaming him for all their problems. Other times, she beat him. Six-year-old Lee tried to find comfort where he could. He bonded with a stray cat from around the neighborhood, and he begged his mother to let him keep it. In a rare moment of sympathy, Una gave in. Lee named his new cat Charlie and immediately got to work house training him. But one day, Charlie had an accident inside the house, which sent Una into a rage. She hit Lee in the head until he started bleeding.

All the while, she screamed at him to get rid of Charlie and make it so that he never came back. Una forced Lee to take Charlie outside and hit him with a broom as hard as he could. and any time Charlie tried to come back, she made Lee hit him with the broom again. Without Charlie, Lee had only one other source of escape, school. There he got a much-needed break from his home life. And when he was away from Una, Lee thrived. He had a hunger for learning, always asking questions and helping out other students, and he was at the top of his class.

Lee seemed to do well with a consistent school routine and structure. It was everything Una had wanted out of it. him. But that didn't stop her from constantly uprooting his life over the next few years. While Una searched for steady work, she and Lee moved all over the country. Sometimes Una brought Lee with her, and other times she left him with friends and relatives. But one thing stayed the same. None of her job prospects ever panned out. Eventually, Una left the country and went to St. Martin in search of work. She left Lee with one of her friends, whose husband was physically abusive toward him. No matter who was caring for him, Lee never felt entirely safe. On top of that,

he'd lost all sense of stability. By 1998, when Lee was 13 years old, he'd moved about a dozen times. One thing we know from developmental research is that children generally do best when they have stability, consistency, and at least a few reliable adults that they can depend on, which was why Lee likely desperately wanted to keep Charlie. And what happened there was very impactful and not something to gloss over. Charlie likely represented comfort, stability, and companionship. He was forming a new attachment with Charlie, and then he was forced to participate in harming him and abandoning him. And when a child is put in a position where affection is followed by punishment or where attachment is met with cruelty, that can send confusing messages

about love and vulnerability, which are compounded with the same messages he's already receiving from his own mother. On top of that, he's frequently moving. When a child frequently moves, they lose friendships, schools, routines, community connections, and trusted relationships. That can make it difficult to develop a sense of belonging. Some children become hesitant to get close to others because it can teach them that relationships are temporary. Others can become highly motivated to find acceptance and connection because those things have been missing for so much of their lives. In Lees, case, there's a combination of instability, disrupted attachments, and exposure to abuse. And when a child doesn't consistently feel safe, they can focus more on predicting threats and adapting to their

environment than on developing confidence, trust, and healthy relationships. And it's even harder when home doesn't feel safe and nowhere outside the home feels safe either. How do you think Lee may have interpreted the way his mom left him with other people, including someone who was just as volatile as she was. Do you think this could have added to those sad or negative thoughts and emotions about his dad? It's certainly possible. He could direct anger at his dad for being absent, for not being there when he, quote, could be. But more importantly, it's another example to him that people are not safe. Once again, the people he's supposed to trust to protect him are the source of his harm. And if a child repeatedly learns that care and harm can coexist,

they may grow up with a very different sense of what's normal in close relationship. And that can affect how a child responds to authority, loyalty, dependency, and belonging. Well, by April of 1998, Lede had enough. He was staying in a boarding house in St. Anne and decided to make the trip to Kingston and try to reconnect with his dad. He knew Leslie liked to play dominoes with some other neighborhood men, and it wasn't long before Lee found him. Leslie was thrilled when he saw Lee. They spent some time together, laughing and catching up. Lee spent the whole time hoping his dad would invite him to move back in, but he didn't.

At the end of the night, Lee returned to the boarding house. He was utterly crushed. And soon after, Una came back to Jamaica and the two of them moved again. Now, Lee was once again subjected to her constant temper and abuse. He couldn't take it anymore. The way he saw it, his father didn't want him and his mother didn't love him. He had no future. and he felt like he had no reason to live. So one night, 13-year-old Lee attempted to take his own life.

Fortunately, Una realized what was happening and called a neighbor for help, and together they de-escalated the situation. Lee was physically safe, but his mental health was at its lowest. One thing that's important to understand is that suicidal crises and adolescents often occur in different developmental contexts than they do in adults. teenagers are still forming their identities, their sense of self-worth, and their understanding of where they fit in the world. As a result, relationships and feelings of belonging are emotionally powerful for them. At 13 years old, Lee was evaluating his life through what he knew and was experiencing at that moment.

And if he genuinely believed that his father didn't want him, his mother didn't love him, and there was no stable place where he felt safe or valued, that could create a profound sense of hopelessness. And that can lead to what we call the negative triad of thinking. That's negative view of self, negative view of the world, and negative view of the future. And that essentially means, I am not loved or valued. Everyone or the world is against me, and it's not going to get better. And that thinking is the recipe for despair. But this emotional turretsy, turmoil did not happen overnight. We have seen years of instability, separation, abuse, disrupted attachments, and repeated losses for Lee. This happened after he had a separation from a major

stressor, which was his mother, some renewed hope, which is experiencing life without her, and then finding his father again, then feeling rejected again by his father, but more importantly, his mother returning again. That can re-trigger him and cause feelings of helplessness or being trapped again. And when your emotional pain has nowhere to go, or you cannot escape the source of your distress, which a lot of adolescents feel, because they're very dependent, especially on the source of your stress, if that's your parent, that is very overwhelming. And that's something we often see in adolescence. The crisis may look sudden from the outside, but when you examine their history, the distress, isolation, or hopelessness has actually been building for some time.

Do you think this is an indication that Lee will act in troubling or even violent ways in the future? Not from anything you've described. One of the biggest misconceptions that people have is that childhood trauma, depression, or suicidal behavior, or warning signs that someone will later become violent. And the research simply doesn't support that. The same is true of most teenagers who experience abuse, suicidal thoughts, or instability. The research does not support that. In fact, those are far more commonly associated with emotional distress, anxiety, depression, and relational discord than with violence towards others.

And based on what we know, Lee's case tells us he was suffering and his behavior was directed inward, not a danger to others. He's expressing hopelessness, despair, and emotional pain. We know how the story ends. This is, after all, a serial killers and murderous minds episode. So it's tempting to view these events as clues. And that's hindsight bias. But if we encountered a 13-year-old like Lee with these experiences today,

our primary concern would be his safety, his mental health, and his well-being. A suicide attempt doesn't allow us to predict future crimes. After Lee's suicide attempt, he withdrew even further into himself. Una may not have been a model parent, but she knew she had to do something. She scraped together enough money to send Lee to a nice private school. Then she started looking for ways to move to the U.S., where she believed she could finally earn a stable income. Una wanted to move to Florida, but she quickly realized how hard the visa process was, so she changed course and made plans to move to Antigua instead,

where she thought it would be easier to get an illegal U.S. work visa. She moved to Antigua in January of 1999 and brought Lee there the following summer. They lived in a one-room shack together, which was extremely difficult. But on the bright side, Una had started dating a man who offered to pay for Lee's schooling in Antigua. At school, Lee hit the ground running once again. It didn't matter that he had no running water, or that he had to do his homework by the light of the street lamps. He tried his best to remain optimistic, even as Una repeatedly tried and failed to gain entry into the U.S. What Lee needed more than anything was a hero, someone to save him from his down-and-out life,

and he would soon cross paths with that person. But Lee had no idea that the man who'd soon become his hero would lead him down a path too dark to fathom. Ready to level up? Chumba Casino is your playbook to fun. It's free to play with no purchase necessary. Enjoy hundreds of online social games like blackjack slots and solitaire. Anytime, anywhere, with fresh releases every week.

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I'm Tristan Hughes, and all of this month on the ancients, I'm going to be sailing through Homer's treacherous world of monsters, witchcraft and tempestuous gods, exploring the real archaeology and history beneath the myths. From Troy to Ithaca, this is Odysseus like you've never heard him before. Join us on the ancients from History Hit. Listen now and subscribe on your favorite podcast player. 15-year-old Lee Boyd Malvo was doing his best to hang on. He was living in Antigua with his mother, Una, while she tried to gain entry into the U.S. so they could start a new life. While Una was kept busy, Lee focused on his schoolwork and hung around town by himself. One afternoon that October, he wandered into a local electronics store.

As Lee checked out the new video games, he noticed a man playing a flight simulator game with his young son. The site caused a pang in Lee's chest. He thought of all the times his dad laughed along as he pretended to fly around the living room, and the flight jacket he'd once given him. As Lee watched the man and his son, he felt like he was looking at an alternate version of his own life, the happy version that he didn't get to have. He wondered how different things could have been if this man had been his father instead.

Lee realized tears were falling down his face. He wiped his eyes and left the store back to his own bleak existence. Days later, Una told Lee that things were about to change. She'd been trying to obtain illegal visas, but she hadn't had any luck finding someone who could get her the paperwork she needed until recently. Someone had referred her to a man named John Muhammad. John was 39 years old and from the U.S. Apparently, he'd be the one to help her.

So Una brought Lee to John's house with her. When John opened the door, Lee couldn't believe his eyes. The man standing before him was the same one he'd seen at the video store. Lee knew in that moment his life was about to change, and soon John proved him right. He gave Una all the forged paperwork she'd need to obtain a visa. It wasn't cheap, but now that she had it, she could go to the U.S., make more money, then come back and pay for Lee's false documents. Una thanked John for his help and paid him what she owed.

When it was time to leave, Lee didn't want to go. He wanted to stay with John longer, but Una rushed him out of the house. Shortly after, Una left Lee alone in Antigua while she traveled to the States. While she was away, he came down with a bad case of rheumatic fever. As he lay in bed, sick and in pain, there came a knock at the door. It was John. Una had given him their address, and he'd come by to check on Lee. Lee couldn't believe it.

In his moment of need, John showed up to help him. John instantly noticed Lee's dire state. He carried the boy out of the house and brought him to a doctor. Afterward, he took Lee back to his own home. He looked after Lee and made sure he got fluids and took his medication. Once Lee recovered, John invited him to move in, and Lee happily accepted. This is the first time that Lee has experienced warmth and care without the harm. And John didn't just enter into Lee's life during a time of instability,

but he entered during a time of vulnerability as well. He carried him to a doctor, cared for him when he was sick, made sure he took his medication and then had to move in. And that is a true caregiver. All of those actions communicated what a child or teenager should hear. And that is that he mattered and was valued and he's not abandoning him when he needs him the most. And it's coming from a man who reminded him of the times he shared with his own father.

So Lee wasn't comparing John to an ideal, caregiver, he was comparing him to the experiences that he actually once had. And what concerns me, though, is that Lee appears to be assigning a much deeper meaning to John's presence. First, he reminds him of his father. Then he unexpectedly reappears in Lee's life. And then he helps him when he's sick and alone. It's easy to see how Lee might begin believing that John was meant to rescue him, like it was destined or fate. And that's the concern. Lee's history. Lee's history. is full of attachments that were formed and then disrupted. So he's investing a lot of hope and meaning and emotional significance into John. But on the flip side, what does Lee mean to John?

I think the harder question is why an unrelated adult man is investing so much time, energy, and emotional attention into a teenager that he barely knows. And of course, there are perfectly innocent explanations. There are very kind-hearted, good-natured adults who genuinely just want to help. But from a forensic perspective, whenever a strange adult assumes a significant role in a vulnerable child's life at opportunistic times when parents are absent, it's reasonable to ask why and what needs are being met on both sides of that relationship. But when you zoom out, you see that there really was no one in Lee's life to ask those questions. Lee felt like John had saved him and that he'd entered his life for a reason. Lee finally had the father figure he'd been longing for. Within no time, Lee opened up to John about what his life had been like,

including his mother's abuse and how his father had abandoned him. Confessing all those details wasn't easy for Lee, but John made him feel comfortable, especially when he told him he'd had a similar upbringing. John told Lee that his father had abandoned him too, and when he was three, his mother died of breast cancer. John went to live with his grandfather who was abused. Lee couldn't believe how much they had in common. John seemed to understand him better than he thought anyone ever could.

Over the next few weeks, they started spending all their time together. Lee even started helping John with this fake visa business. As time went on, John told Lee more about himself, and Lee realized that the man he viewed as smart, capable, and compassionate, was enduring a lot more than he led on. John told Lee that he had a wife named Mildred and that they had three children together, but according to John, Mildred had recently cheated on him, then took all their money and skipped town. Lee couldn't believe what he was hearing. He couldn't imagine why someone would do something so awful to a guy like John. But what Lee didn't realize was that John's story about Mildred was a complete lie. In fact, there were many aspects of John's life he kept a secret from Lee.

John was born on December 31st, 1960 in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. After getting through those supposedly rough childhood years, he graduated high school, then enlisted in the Louisiana Army National Guard. Once he became a soldier, John started showing signs of intense anger issues. The exact details are unclear, but at some point, John struck a sergeant and was court-martialed. Despite this, he joined the U.S. Army seven years later in 1984. There, he seemed adamant on building a hyper-masculent persona.

He became obsessed with fitness, discipline, and firearms. John was passionate about his role as a military man. However, he clashed with many members of his platoon. He struggled to earn promotions and seemed to resent others as a result. By this point, he and Mildred were married, and John often brought his anger home with him. He lashed out at Mildred, or ignored her for hours on end. Eventually, they moved to Washington State where John was stationed. And once they were settled in, he became extremely controlling over Mildred.

He controlled what she was allowed to wear, and he sometimes threw away her personal belongings without telling her. If she confronted him about it, he gaslit her. John's treatment toward Mildred got even worse by 1993 when the couple had children, three-year-old John Jr., one-year-old Salina, and another infant daughter, Taliba. As a father, John's behavior intensified. He got jealous if the kids seemed to prefer Mildred over him and when she was paying more attention to them.

On top of all that, Mildred suspected John was having an affair, and she was right. He'd met a woman who lived nearby and spent nights and weekends at her house. Mildred's constant worry and suspicion ate away at her, as did John's continual verbal abuse. He often called her names and told her she was a bad, mother. It got so bad, Mildred started experiencing suicidal ideation. However, John also seemed to know when to flip the script. At times, he'd show Mildred tenderness and care. Mildred knew it was a toxic

situation, but she felt trapped. She wanted to stay with John for the sake of their kids. Well, we may have our answer regarding what need is being met for John when it comes to his relationship with Lee. If John is someone who needs attention, loyalty and devotion directed solely toward him, than a teenager seeking belonging, nurturing, stability, and a father figure may have been uniquely positioned to provide that. Lee's understanding of relationships is also very different from Mildred's. He is not seeing John the same way she does. Mildred is seeing jealousy, control, manipulation, and emotional abuse.

Lee is seeing the man who showed up when he was sick, took care of him, gave him a place to live and made him feel important. One of the biggest challenges with coercive relationships is that the harmful aspects often coexist with the things the person genuinely values. In reality, many victims recognize that a relationship is unhealthy long before they leave. The challenge is that leaving is often far more complicated, and Mildren appears to be experiencing several factors that commonly keep people trapped. There are children involved, which means that she's not just making decisions for herself. She's trying to protect her family and maintain stability. There's also the psychological impact of the relationship itself. Abusive relationships are often not abusive all the time. They frequently involve periods of kindness, affection, apologies, or apparent change, just like you described. Those moments create hope that the relationship can improve, especially when they're mixed with long periods of mistreatment. That's the mixed messaging. victims know they're being hurt, but they also remember the person their partner can sometimes be.

From the outside, leaving may seem obvious, but from the inside, it can feel frightening, risky, and emotionally overwhelming. And leaving is just, it's really often a process. John seemed to have a talent for pulling others into his orbit and refusing to let go. Mildred tried her best to make their marriage work. By 1994, John had left the army, and she helped him open his own car repair business. Mildred handled calls and scheduling, and she hired a woman named Esa Nichols to keep the books. Mildred worked tirelessly for three years

and turned the business into a success. But instead of showing gratitude, John was jealous. He couldn't stand that his wife had been the one to secure their family's future. Out of spite, John started pocketing all the earnings for himself. He'd tell Mildred he was making business expenses, but the account balance never checked out. Eventually, John ran the business into the ground. All the while, his verbal and emotional abuse continued,

and in September of 1999, Mildred told John she wanted a divorce. She kicked him out of the house, and in response, John started stalking her. Worst of all, he used their children to try to guilt her into taking him back. He once bought flowers and gave them to his son, John Jr., to give to Mildred and ask her, Mommy, please let Daddy come back. But Mildred stood firm. She officially filed for divorce that December,

which sent John to his breaking point. He bought an XM-15 rifle, and in late February or early March of 2000, he forced his way into Mildred's house and demanded to see his children. He told Mildred that if she didn't let him, he'd kill her. It's unclear how the situation was de-escalated, but fortunately no one got hurt,

and a few days later, Mildred filed a restraining order against John. She didn't hear from John for about a month, but she knew her kids missed their father desperately. So when he called her about a month later and asked to spend a day with them, she said yes. On March 27th, John picked the children up, but he didn't take them shopping

like he told Mildred he was going to. Instead, he brought them 4,000 miles away to Antigua. The next time John and Mildred spoke, he made it clear that if she tried to get the kids back, she'd be putting herself in grave danger. Terrified and heartbroken, Mildred moved across the U.S. to Maryland to live with her mother as she regrouped. She even changed her name so John couldn't find her. She then reported her children abducted, but no one knew where John had taken them. What made John truly dangerous was how effortlessly he was.

concealed his dark side, which is why Lee Boyd Malvo only saw a caring, protective father. John had convinced Lee that Mildred cheated on him and abandoned their family. And it's possible John came up with that story because he knew that, based on Lee's history with his own father, Lee would connect with it. Manipulative people understand the importance of narrative control. They know that if they can shape how others interpret things, they don't have to hide everything. They just have to provide a more emotionally compelling explanation, and often it's one that the person can identify with. In this case, John portrayed Mildred as the person who abandoned the family, and that's something that Lee has personal experience with.

John's version of events may have felt familiar to him. People are often more receptive to stories that resonate with their own emotional history. But remember, too, that as far as we know, Lee never saw or experienced John in any abusive way. He only knew him as the one person who cared for him. That would make it very hard for Lee to question the version of events that John is giving him. And that's what makes people like John so dangerous because they don't appear frightening all the time. They are able to present different versions of themselves to different people. And that makes it even harder for their victims to feel that they can be believed when they do decide to speak out. Lee himself is a victim. So how could it affect him to hear John talking as though he's also a victim? That can actually strengthen loyalty and alliance because he's giving him Lee a sense of shared victimhood. And that creates connection.

People often feel closer to those who seem to understand their pain or have experienced similar struggles. That could also make them more trusting and more willing to view John as someone who truly understood him. And because of that, Lee could inadvertently begin viewing John through his pain similarly to his own rather than his actions. So if John does start to show any problematic signs that Lee would ordinarily question, he might instead start to rationalize as a result of his perceived circumstances or victimhood, even if that's not the reality. John's story definitely made Lee believe John really cared about him. as far as he knew, John already had three mouths to feed and took on another out of pure generosity.

Lee was on John's side. He had his back wholeheartedly. So in May of 2001, when John's crime started to catch up with him, Lee was blind to the reality. That month, the Antiguan authorities were finally closing in on John's illegal visa business. He caught wind of it and fled the country with Lee and his kids. He dropped Lee off in Florida with Una, then returned home to Washington. Washington state with his children and tried to lie low. But then John slipped up. In August of that year, he tried to apply for food stamps, and the application alerted the authorities that his children had been reported abducted. Four days later, a judge awarded full custody of all three children to Mildred. When the kids were taken from John, he was livid. He called Lee to tell him what happened, and he was so upset he could barely get the words out. He told him,

Lee, he had to find a way to get his children back. Lee told John he'd do anything to help him. Little did he know, John's plan was to get Mildred out of the picture permanently. In September of 2001, 40-year-old John Muhammad enlisted the help of 16-year-old Lee Boyd Malvo to get his kids back. Lee was willing to do whatever it took to help John, despite the fact that John didn't tell him what his plan was. If he had, then Lee may not have gone along with it because John's plan was to kill his ex-wife in order to regain custody of his children. However, to avoid getting caught, John wanted Mildred's death to seem random. So he wouldn't just kill her, but countless others.

John's plan was to carry out a full-on killing spree. That way, Mildred would look like one of many unfortunate but random victims. John's plan is very instrumental and alarming because like you said, his goal is to murder Mildred and make it look random. But in doing so, he's willing to harm others in the process. He has no regard for her life, the life of the mother of his children, but he also has no regard for the lives of innocent people who he has absolutely no grievances with either. On top of that, he has absolutely no regard for Lee, whom he is involving in this. So to John, people are not viewed as individuals with lives, families, and value of their own. They are being viewed as tools

to achieve an objective and personal grievance. And I already discussed how Lee could rationalize any warning signs coming from John, but now that's playing out here. Though I don't think he fully knows the extent of what he will be helping with, but it's also important to remember that not only does Lee have a profound attachment to John, Lee is still a teenager with a developing frontal lobe. His judgment and decision-making abilities were still developing, and research shows that teenagers are generally more influenced by relationships,

authority figures, and social approval, and his relationship with John is a very important one to Lee. Why do you think John wanted Lee's help in the first place? Was it about just controlling him? Control may have been a part of it, certainly, but as we've seen throughout the

story, John wanted loyalty and devotion. He became jealous when his own children directed attention toward Mildred or Mildred directed her attention toward them. He appeared controlling in his relationships. He seemed to want people organized around him and his needs only. And right now, John is targeting Mildred because he didn't have her blind loyalty, because she stopped complying or obeying. She began exercising her autonomy. She sought a divorce, a protection order, and removed herself from his influence as well as their children. Lee represents the opposite.

He was a teen who admired him, depended on him, and viewed him as a father figure. And there's no one else that can remove Lee from him. There's no outside source that's going to taint his impression of John. And right now, that was the validation reassurance that John likely needed. Lee not only admired John as a person. He hoped he'd actually become his father one day. He wanted John to adopt him. And if that happened, he could go to college in the U.S.

become a pilot. John wasn't just a surrogate father to Lee. He was the key to making all of his dreams come true. All Lee had to do now was find a way to be with John in Washington. He was staying in Florida with his mother, and Una didn't want him to live with John. She knew the two had been in talks about adoption, but she didn't want to lose her son for good. Lee was determined, though, so he ran away. In October of 2001, he snuck out of Una's house and traveled alone, Washington. He was ecstatic once he was back in John's company. John called Una and let her know Lee was safe. It's not clear how Una reacted, but Lee kept living with John. Now that they were together, John wanted to prepare Lee for what they were going to do, and the first step of his

plan was to stoke anger in Lee and desensitize him to violence. So over the next two months, he made Lee read and listen to speeches from black nationalist and civil rights era figures, twisting them into themes of a common oppressor and being a slave to one's own thoughts. He also showed him violent movies and brought him to the shooting range. Lee never once questioned why he needed to learn to shoot to help John get his kids back. He figured John was just passing down his own skills and interests, which Lee was grateful for. After two weeks of gun training, John gave Lee a present, a T-shirt that said, sniper across the front in big, bold letters.

When there are coercive dynamics, there is typically an aspect where the abuser is attempting to shape, create, or assign identity. John has been increasingly shaping Lee. He's influencing what he reads, what he watches, what skills he develops, and how he spends his time. And all of that is becoming a large part of Lee's identity. The shirt is a reflection of that. But I think the more important issue is that despite this, Lee appears to trust that John has a purpose for them, even if he doesn't fully understand what that purpose is. That's where Lee's developmental stage becomes relevant. At 16 years old, adolescents are still developing judgment, autonomy, and independent decision-making. They are easily influenced or pressured. And in Lee's case, the person guiding many of those

decisions, like we've outlined, is someone he admires depends on and views as a father figure. And that can make it much easier to accept direction without demanding any kind of explanation for it. And remember, Lee's fond memories of his father involved military imagery and being a fighter pilot. And when he first saw John, he was playing a flight simulation game with his own son. This may feel adjacent to that. So to him, this may be what father-son bonding is, something just for them, and not anything that should be alarming. Lee wore the sniper shirt proudly and often, which told John it was time for Lee's first real-world test. In late January of 2002, John drove Lee to a restaurant and parked out front.

John had been casing the restaurant for a while, and now he told Lee it was time for him to prove his loyalty. He said that around 1 a.m., a woman would leave the restaurant and get into her car. She was an employee there, so she'd have a bag full of cash with her. It was Lee's job to shoot the woman and take the money. John then handed Lee a 45 semi-automatic handgun. Lee turned to John, confused. He knew they needed money, but he didn't understand why the woman had to die. John held Lee's gaze, then told him men were destined to kill.

It was the only way to stay ahead in life. Lee couldn't let John down, so he exited the vehicle, picked the lock on the woman's car and hid in the back seat. However, things didn't go quite according to plan. When the woman left the restaurant, she tossed her bag into the back seat without looking. Then she realized she forgot something and went back inside. Lee grabbed the money and ran without having to kill her. However, he wasn't off the hook just yet, because even though John seemed fine with the way things had played out, he still wanted Lee to take his first life. So a few weeks later, on February 16th,

John drove them to the home of Issa Nichols, his former bookkeeper, who had also helped Mildred win custody of her children after their divorce. John gave Lee clear instructions to knock on the door and shoot whoever answered. Lee approached the front door. He knocked, and a young woman answered. Lee asked if Issa was home. The woman said no. She introduced herself as Issa's niece, Kenya, and asked what she could do for him.

Lee took a deep breath, then reached for his gun. In that moment, two opposing voices battled inside his head. One told him not to do it, while the other said, do it now. The second voice warned that he could not go back and face John if he failed. Lee aimed the gun at Kenya's face, and when he looked at her, he saw his own face staring back. He realized what he was about to do, kill the old Lee. Malvo. Lee pulled the trigger. Kenya died instantly. When you describe that he's hearing two voices and seeing his own face staring back at him, I just want to make it clear that this does not mean

he's experiencing psychosis. Most people experience internal conflicts. We often describe them as like competing voices or competing thoughts or being torn between two choices or a lose-lose conflict. And Lee is experiencing a lose-lose conflict and profound internal conflict because of that. Assuming that this account is accurate, he appears to be caught between two very uncomfortable choices. And one hand, he recognizes the humanity of Kenya, when John does not, as well as the reality of what he is about to do. And on the other, he fears the consequences of failing John, a man who, by this point, appears to have become very central to his identity. belonging in his sense of purpose. And in this type of conflict, neither option feels acceptable. No matter what choice that Lee makes, something important is lost to him. The distress comes from

being forced to choose between competing values, loyalties, or identities. Now, he likely didn't truly see his own face in the way that we might be visualizing it. But under intense distress, us, people sometimes become highly aware of similarities between themselves and another person or situation. And it's possible that Lee briefly saw aspects of himself in Kenya and what he might be taking from her. And identification tends to increase empathy. And the more we see ourselves in another person, the harder it becomes to harm them, which is one reason I think this moment may reflect the intensity of the conflict that he was experiencing. And the fact that he later interpreted the moment as the killing of old Lee Mellon. Alvo says quite a bit. He understood that this was an irreversible change. I say all this not to excuse what he just did, because it's not excusable, but rather to help us understand what makes

a killer. Do you think it's common for first-time violent offenders to have these experiences? Is it more common among those who've been brainwashed, like in this case, like Lee? The truth is, it's different for each person in each case and each circumstance. because as you've seen from Lee's story, there are so many variables that appear to have converged for this moment to happen. His age, his developmental stage, his attachment to John, his need for belonging, his history of instability, and the influence John appears to have had over him all make this a very unusual set of circumstances. Not every first time violent offender experiences the same level of internal conflict. Some report fear, guilt, or

hesitation like this. Some describe emotional numbness. Others appear to experience very little distress at all. And it depends on the individual, their motivations, their relationship to the victim, and the circumstances that surround the events. Well, once Kenya was dead, Lee ran from the scene, shaking and crying. John met him at their predetermined location, a phone booth. He stepped inside and told the visibly distraught Lee that he'd done a good job. He was proud of him. Then John gave Lee a gift. He reached into his pocket and pulled out a fake ID. It had Lee's photo on it and the name read John Lee Muhammad. Lee looked up at John who said Lee Boyd Malvo no longer exists. From that moment on, Lee belonged to John completely and he'd soon follow him

down one of the darkest criminal paths in American history. Remember when I said that in coercive dynamics, the abuser attempts to shape, create, or assign identity? John has been building an identity for Lee, and I believe that this is the moment that Lee shed his old identity and assumed his new one. Thanks so much for listening. Come back next time for the conclusion of our deep dive on John Muhammad and Lee Boyd-Malvo. Serial Killers and Murderous Minds is a Crimehouse original powered by Pave Studios.

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