Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin - Between The (Balance) Sheets of NYC's Exclusive Nightlife with Juriël Zeligman

Episode Date: July 20, 2023

Everything you think you know about nightlife is about to get turned upside down. You can thank Juriël Zeligman for that. Juriël is the co-founder and one of two managing partners of GOSPËL, a leading NYC nightclub in SoHo. He tells Nicole how he's pulled off a rare profit margin, how SVB affected bottle service, whether NYC's Mayor Eric Adams is a GOSPËL stan - and so much more.

One of the most stressful periods of my life was when I was in credit card debt. I got to a point where I just knew that I had to get it under control for my financial future and also for my mental health. We've all hit a point where we've realized it was time to make some serious money moves. So take control of your finances by using a Chime checking account with features like no maintenance fees, fee-free overdraft up to $200, or getting paid up to two days early with direct deposit. Learn more at Chime.com slash MNN. When you check out Chime, you'll see that you can overdraft up to $200 with no fees. If you're an OG listener, you know about my infamous $35 overdraft fee that

I got from buying a $7 latte and how I am still very fired up about it. If I had Chime back then, that wouldn't even be a story. Make your fall finances a little greener by working toward your financial goals with Chime. Open your account in just two minutes at Chime.com slash MNN. That's Chime.com slash MNN. Chime. Feels like progress. Banking services and debit card provided by the Bancorp Bank N.A. or Stride Bank N.A. Members FDIC. SpotMe eligibility requirements and overdraft limits apply. Boosts are available to eligible Chime members enrolled in SpotMe and are subject to monthly limits. Terms and conditions apply. Go to Chime.com slash disclosures for details.

I'm Nicole Lappin, the only financial expert you don't need a dictionary to understand. It's time for some money rehab. If you're out late at the club, you know, dancing with your friends, basically having the best night ever, do you look around and think, what are the cost of goods for this place? Yeah, okay, I think I'm the weird one here, because that is definitely what's going through my mind. I can explain. Clubs these days, especially the popular ones, seem to totally ball out on the vibe, and it feels impossible that they could be profitable. But then I was proven seriously wrong by creative entrepreneur

and event producer Uriel Zeligman. He's my guest on the show today, and I'm going to let him introduce his club because he does it best. And I'm also going to let him explain how we got on the subject of his profit margins. It sounds more scandalous than it is, so wait for it. But here's what I can tell you. After hearing all the behind-the-scenes business about the stacks servers are making at Uriel's club, how SVB affected bottle service, and the intense investing scene in nightlife, the next time you're at the club, you're going to be thinking about Cogs too. I'm just saying. So let's dive in. Uriel Zelligman, welcome to Money Rehab. Thank you for having me. So I've been told that your club, Gospel, where you're recording right now, is the coolest club in New York.

I am such a nerd and I live under a rock. So I've been told these things, but I hear them from very reliable sources. Is it true? It's definitely a popular spot. It's hard to say about your own work that it's the best, but I would definitely say that it's very well attended and people really seem to enjoy it. It's the hardest to get in New York. Yeah, it's not easy to get in. Okay.

So remind us, when did the club open? So we signed the lease in 2016. Started construction. Thought it was going to be a 90-day renovation. And it turned out to be almost two-year renovation. Three times capex. What we intended to spend. Typical New York construction nightmare.

And we opened November 8, 2017. And when we finally figured out how to run it and make it profitable, we were unfortunately hit, like everybody else, by COVID-19 and had to close again for 18 months. And reopened in September 2021. Have been rocking ever since. Yeah, you have over time and over budget, though, is what all renovations are really like. Honestly, that's my first advice for anybody who is like planning a construction, especially in New York City, is whatever you think the number is, double it. Yeah. The number for the expenses and the time. Well, yeah, because time is like equals rent, right? And so you can have like rent provisions

that you can negotiate. But like at some point when you have so many delays, you're just going to pay rent for nothing. And that definitely adds up quick with New York rents. Yeah, for sure. So since it opened, it has been a massive success. You don't have to say it. I will say it for you. But lightning in a bottle doesn't come for free, of course. When we met, we met in Cannes. We quickly got along and I asked you to get in your sheets. Yes, at dinner, which is great.

And I actually opened my spreadsheets and showed you my weekly ops report and our weekly flashcard reports. I think that's sort of like where we kicked it off. I loved it. I loved it so much. And I'm so glad that you invited me into your sheets. Just FYI, anyone, if I'm asking to get in sheets, I mean, balance sheets. This is the nerdy stuff that we did while we were out at dinner. I was so fascinated by it because we've long been told that restaurants, clubs are just terrible businesses, but you are running an awesome business. I saw it in the numbers. Can you quickly run us through the daily expenses that go into gospel? I know there's a lot,

but just give listeners a taste. There's like a lot of detailed expenses. I think the best way how most operators approach this is just like the five categories of costs, where you first have your cost of goods sold, you have your rent, you have your labor costs, and then you have your programming costs. And then like, finally, you have your, you know, your operational expenses. So yeah, cost of goods sold, COGS, that's your liquor and your food. For us, that's obviously better because food is more expensive. We're only a liquor business. So the shelf life for inventory is much easier to manage. So that's like under 15%. Restaurants typically have a little higher

COGS. Then rents, you want to be under 10%, which we are. But with rising New York rents, it has been a challenge for many operators. And then labor, I think that we're on the higher end, but we have like per shift, like 30 to 40 people working for us. We do try to keep labor under 30 percent. And then you have your programming costs, which I think the most unique part about gospel is that's the biggest variable cost that eats into the margin with the rising cost of, you know, famous DJs. Where gospel really sells on the brand and allows us to work with more affordable artists. I mean, we still spend about 10% of our weekly costs on innovative programming, but we're not dependent on a famous DJ that notoriously takes up all the margin.

And that allows us to have a 25% margin if we hit all the marks. Of course, we're also subject to lower revenues or one-off expenses, That allows us to have a 25% margin if we hit all the marks. Of course, we're also subject to lower revenues or one-off expenses. But I think that generally, we're able to hit the double digits on a weekly basis. I want to get into the more fun side of the revenue. But first, how much does a DJ cost? How much do they charge typically? So it ranges really widely. I mean, you can get like local resident DJs for like 500 or 800 bucks. For the night? No, for a two hour

set, two, three hour set. And then you have two of them. You could negotiate an all night set, but like we typically have two, three hour sets at Gospel. Okay. So let's flip over to the revenue side. What are the big moneymakers at Gospel? So we're really like pretty simple business model. We didn't opt in for ticket sales. So we do bar reservations and we do table reservations. And obviously this fluctuates from night to night. But if you sort of like look at it from a macro level, I would say it's a 50-50 split between what we do at our three bars versus our 20 tables. Bar revenue requires 90% of the occupancy, where table revenue is 10% of the occupancy. So on a night, like if you have a few hundred people, 10% of that is your table clientele, and then 90% is the rest of your clientele that orders drinks at the bar. And that sort of ends up being

50-50. I think one of the things we have become good at is capitalize on those bar reservations where an Achilles heel for our business is guest list and everybody's your best friend. And you got to at some point just be like, hey, even with my friends, I need to say to them, you got to contribute because we also have to pay the rent. And I think we do a pretty good job at finding a sweet spot of like how we price that. And so that's the revenue on a night, really. You don't give hookups to your friends? I do. But I it's a two way street with my friends. You know what I mean? Like, I don't want to make money of my friends. But I also have like some of the my friends are super users that are here like every weekend, man, you don't want to lose money on your friends either. Yeah, but I have those

conversations and you find a healthy middle ground. How much does a table cost? So that depends again, right? Is it a Thursday or is it a Saturday? Generally Thursdays are a little lower price, but then again, you have seasonality. So September, October are great months. July, August are terrible months. So we have a whole pricing strategy with guidelines. How many people is the table? Does the table consist of? Do you have a table next to the DJ or in the back of the room? I would say that like $2,500 to $20,000 is sort of like your range. Is the alcohol on top of that? No. So that's your alcohol credit, if you will. Okay. So we do add gratuity and tax on that.

But you basically buy a credit for alcohol and then you have a bottle menu and that goes against that $2,500 minimum spend. So you basically call it a minimum spend. And then if somebody orders only one bottle, you would add a surcharge that nets out to $2,500. But I already agreed upon the amount is. And then you add tax and gratuity and that's your retail price. And how much are bottles? I mean, it's expensive

and like people sometimes criticize us for it, but you really spend money for the real estate. Like you're buying real estate in a club and you get like the service. But to answer your question, I would say bottles start at like five, $600 and go up to 2000, depending again, the product. But to answer your question, I would say bottles start at like five, $600 and go up to 2000, depending, again, the product, that's your range. So like Dom is the fanciest one or whatever. If we went to the market or the liquor store down

the street, how much would it cost? I mean, the honest answer is probably around a 10th. So like a couple hundred bucks? Yeah, I mean, like Dom is still an expensive product, but the marginal champagne is much lower than strong out a hard liquor. But I would say like, yeah, you still pay a few $100 for a bottle at a store. But your margin is 90%. So on average, 85%. Yeah, our cost of goods are like 15%. And it's actually a little lower because we have sponsorship deals, which I don't account really for revenue. It's like case break. So you get like all sorts of deals if you buy a lot. So it ends up being a little less. So maybe the ROI if you're getting a table is probably in business for these people who are buying like 2,500 to 20 grand tables.

Like if they can close the deal, maybe it's worth it for them. What was an interesting from a macroeconomic point when Silicon Valley Bank went down that weekend, I would say that our table business was notoriously the lowest like that Friday. Like it was before the government announced its plans and there was a huge distress. I would definitely say that was the quietest Friday of the year. So I definitely think that the notion of hosting clients and having a business angle towards hosting people for a late night after dinner or table is definitely part of it.

for a late night after dinner table is definitely part of it. I definitely think that table clients are, you know, industry leaders from the tech industry to finance industries. Yeah. I mean, listen, the times I've been to a club, Ariel, I can count on my hands, but like they've all had some business component. This is maybe a terrible business plan idea, but maybe taking equity of the deals that percent in the business dealings. But you can definitely feel in a room when business is being done. Listen, if anyone can figure it out, I'm sure it's you. You're innovating. You're innovating

the club business. If I figure it out, you'll be the first one to know. Thank you. So liquor in the club is like really where you're making the most money. It's not just for clubs. It's for restaurants as well. If you as a restaurant don't have a liquor license and you can't sell liquor. It's a harder business. Your opportunity to make money is almost impossible. It's like the hardest part of this business is to get their liquor license.

And I think for us to have a liquor license in Soho is what gives us that advantage point. Why is it so hard to get a liquor license? So the way it's structured is that you get, you have to get approval from community boards. So we're in community board two, which is Soho. And I have to be careful how I express myself here. But like, let's just say like this, you have six people on this community board that like by no means wants, you know, peace and quiet to be disturbed. So their interests are not aligned with you as a late night endeavor that is problematic to the peace and quiet of a neighborhood. That was really PC. Nicely done. Right? Good job. Having operated for seven years in Soho, I've learned how to take the... We love the community board. If anyone from the Soho community board is listening.

Yes, we love that. It serves a purpose. And I definitely think it's an interesting way of doing it. But it's hard because you're naturally not aligned. Like if you're in a community board, and you are 70 years old, and you want to go to bed at 10pm, and somebody applies for a liquor license to 4am, like on your block, of course, you're going to deny that. I mean, any person that's sensible would understand that. So we had to find a legal loophole, which is that there was a business called Pravda that had a license that had it grandfathered in. And so we took over that business.

But it's hard because I had to take over a 25-year-old business, right, like that has all the liabilities. So if you get an HR lawsuit, you know, we had to really do the due diligence and make sure that was all done as good as you can. But you can't 100% make sure that an old business that you take over is as good as a new business, but they don't allow you to transfer that license, right? And then we had to hire an architect because you can't break the code because then the grandfathering is again in jeopardy. So the whole process of how we got it was really,

really difficult. And I definitely want to credit some of our investors that are working in the world of construction and real estate to have helped us with resources to navigate that landscape for us to have done this successfully. So basically, you're looking for an assumable license. There's two ways to do it. It's one, you buy a business that has a license and you go through the whole due diligence process like we did and you jump through hoops, basically. Or you start a new business and you go to the community board and you apply for a new license and you're going to get rejected and you're going to go through the process of like years of like getting it eventually. Is there some lobbying effort that you can do? No, I think it's really hard.

And I think that one of the reasons why gospel is essentially a monopoly is because the community board doesn't give out those licenses. I would say it's definitely we got a new mayor that is more in favor of nightlife, Eric Adams, but so maybe the laws will change. But I think that the whole community board structure is pretty deeply ingrained in the dealings of New York City. So has he been into the club? He has not. He has not yet. Yet. So I assume that you plan this out before you even started the business, right? Like this is probably important advice for anyone thinking about starting a restaurant or a club, like figure out what the license strategy is going to be first. A hundred percent.

Yeah, that's your biggest part is having a real strategy around your license. I do want to also point out like a great, just because you mentioned it, like around the business plan, we wrote a whole business plan about what this business was going to be. And the second we opened that business plan went out of the window and your customer will teach you what your product is. What did they teach you? We had all these ideas about we wanted to be like an after work cafe. And then we opened it and like two people showed up.

It was like empty, you know, like we wanted it to be this. We wanted it to be that. We had all these efforts to promote consciousness and everything through yoga classes and everything, but we learned that nobody wants to pay for a yoga class besides the 10 bucks or something, which doesn't really like, you know, justify Soho rent and putting on the lights. So you learned a hard way that, you know, but then again, on the other hand, the whole late night component was like such a big hit, and people were willing to spend so much more money than we thought it would be. So I definitely think if you open a new business in this space is that you want to have some sort of flexibility with your business plan. Yeah, they didn't want yoga. They wanted like table vibes. They wanted tequila on the rocks.

Hold on to your wallets. Money Rehab will be right back. One of the most stressful periods of my life was when I was in credit card debt. I got to a point where I just knew that I had to get it under control for my financial future and also for my mental health. We've all hit a point where we've realized it was time to make some serious money moves. So take control of your finances by using a time checking account with features like no maintenance fees, fee-free overdraft up to $200, or getting paid up to two days early with direct deposit. Learn more at Chime.com slash MNN. When you check out Chime, you'll see that you can overdraft up to $200 with no fees. If you're an OG listener, you know about my infamous

$35 overdraft fee that I got from buying a $7 latte and how I am still very fired up about it. If I had Chime back then, that wouldn't even be a story. Make your fall finances a little greener by working toward your financial goals with Chime. Open your account in just two minutes at Chime.com slash MNN. That's Chime.com slash MNN. Chime. Feels like progress. Banking services and debit card provided by the Bank Corp Bank N.A. or Stride Bank N.A. Members FDIC. SpotMe eligibility requirements and overdraft limits apply. Boosts are available to eligible Chime members enrolled in SpotMe and are subject

to monthly limits. Terms and conditions apply. Go to Chime.com slash disclosures for details. time.com slash disclosures for details. And now for some more money rehab. You keep mentioning the Soho rent. How much is your rent? So we have some back pay, but we're around 60, 60 grand between. We have like storage spaces as well in adjacent spaces next to our business. We have some back pay because of COVID. So it's not a straight up deal that we have. We have some back pay because of COVID. So it's not a straight up deal that we have. We spend a 50, 60 a month. Okay. So as we're talking through the business, we've gone through a bunch of expenses. I still have more questions around it, but it sounds like the biggest expense is Soho rent. Labor, labor. The biggest part is labor. Yes. So

labor, labor is 25 to 30%. We run a very expensive operation. We have 30 to 40 people working on a shift, which is way more than any other bar. But guest experience is the most important part. And again, being in Soho, having complaining neighbors, we have one person that makes sure that the traffic is managed. We have three people outside telling people to be quiet. That's their whole job? Their job is to stand outside to tell people to be quiet? Well, that's not how I would put it,

but I would say definitely it's an important part of it. Yeah, I mean, look, when you have hundreds of people congregating outside of a building, that just needs to be managed. How much do the servers make? Or are they mostly working on text? I mean, that's the best job in New York City, if you ask me. I'm like so jealous of my servers.

And we pay minimum wage, so I can't really say much. But like I have clients that like when they're in a good mood, they just tip $15,000, which gets 100% goes to the servers, right? Like the house doesn't take anything of that. But do they split it? Is it a pool? Yeah, so it's a pool. It's a pool point. So the waitress takes, it changes constantly, but it's like 50, 60%. And then they get give a little

piece to the door and a little piece to the bar and then a little piece to the bussers that help with the service, but they keep the lion's share themselves. And they on a good night as a server, not just in gospel, but if you work for the Tao group, I'm sure it's like similar, you can make $500 an hour, $1,000 an hour. And it's a fun job. So I mean, look, the shelf life is short, but Yeah, I was about to say like, maybe I missed my calling out. I'm way too old for that job. Hey, we could we could try we could we could try and say ARP club for me. But it's a very well paid job. It's a veryP club for me. But it's a very well-paid job.

It's a very well-paid job. I'm sure. Okay, so labor is the most expensive. Rent is ridiculous. You're making a ton of money, crazy margin on alcohol. So we're going through the P&L, back of napkin math here. What are general profit margins at the club? So again, it fluctuates, but I would say it's anywhere between 10 to 25%. For the year, I like to be as close to 20 as possible, which makes us a top performer.

I know, I mean, like, listen, there are strip clubs in the world that make 30%. So I definitely, there's definitely bigger unicorns than us. But I definitely think we're in the upper segment of profitability and hospitality in New York City. So give us the range. So like the perspective. First of all, what's your revenue, right? Like, what is it a terribly busy weekend? Did all the tables sell for the best pricing?

Did the door do a good job in upselling bar minimums? Then did we manage our costs the way they should be? Didn't we invest any money in more expensive DJs? But then you got the rain. You got a big concert that drew a few table clients. You got people going to Ibiza in the summer, you know, spending money there. So I don't know. There's like a lot of factors why revenue is not optimized. What a crazy black swan event.

People going to Ibiza. It's yeah, honestly, that's the bit. It's not just like the weather. It's like where do you know, a tape? Hey, look, somebody who can afford $10,000 for a table or $5,000 for a table, you know, the world is their oyster. So those people travel, they're not all the time in New York. So you have to take those elements and factor them in. But for restaurants, like a 10% profit margin would be awesome. Give us a perspective. I think restaurants for sure, because your cost of goods for food is higher.

Unsold food has a short shelf life. I don't own a restaurant, but I know from colleagues that I would say it's more like the lower teens, like 10, 12%. So there's an old business cliche, of course, that you have to spend money to make money. And this is really real when it comes to your industry, because there's so many upfront costs involved with the venue or the whatever. If you have a restaurant, if that launches, how do you navigate this cycle of wanting to make money on a space? You need to spend money to make the space awesome.

And then you don't want to spend more than you can actually recoup. And round and round we go. How do you reconcile that? So I'm not sure if I'm the right person to ask, because I am the creative in the group, and I'm always down for improvements. I have become better at it, like not to want to constantly upgrade. But I do think there's a lot of wear and tear to nightclub. And you don't want to be in a club where the couches feel old, right? Or where the tables are chipped. You know, like you got to have a premium feel. And so I definitely think that your capex ongoing for your wear and tear.

So I definitely think you need to spend money to keep making money. I think that's a big mistake from a lot of operators. They think, okay, we'll spend millions of dollars in building it out and then we're done. No, you have an ongoing upkeep, definitely with repairs. They're wearing terror on businesses. Is real furniture doesn't have a life cycle more than a year, two years. So that's definitely something that I would say that like, it's a real factor when you look at your P&L. Where you're sitting right now is beautiful. You have disco balls and lights and statues and everything. How much did you spend on gospel before it opened? Several million.

Did you put that money in or did you have investors? So here's the thing. One of my mentors advised me, don't start a construction when you are under 60, 70% funded. And my business partner and I thought it was a good idea to turn the key at 10% funded. So we ran out of money, I would say one month in. And so we were just like, not just like managing a construction site for 18 months, we had to raise money to keep the construction funded. So that was definitely the most brutal time in my life where I had to manage a construction site that like wasn't obviously optimized because I'd never done it before. And I had never raised money before on that scale. So I had to raise a few million dollars in small chips of like 25,

50, 100k. You'll have an investor here and there that will be like, let's go crazy for half a million dollars or something. But I think generally people are comfortable around the 50, 100k mark in a venture like this. I think many also wrote it off that same year that they invested, but raising the money was a hard part, doing it live while building it. So my advice that I didn't follow was don't start construction until you're 60, 70% funded. Why did you then not listen to the advice of your mentor? Well, because there was a moment in time

where we could close this deal with Pravda and it was sort of like timing was of the essence. And I definitely was way more arrogant than I am now. I thought, you know, how hard can it be to raise a couple million dollars? How hard can it be to do a quick construction job? And definitely the school of gospel has humbled me in knowing like how hard it actually is to raise money for a nightclub. And you've never raised money before, right? A little bit, but nothing substantial like this. Yeah, like I was responsible for about 90%. My other partners raised the other parts,

but I definitely did the majority of fundraising. And I definitely had to learn that the hard way. It did become easier. We're notorious for our big cap table. We have almost 80 investors. 80? Yeah. When you get desperate, you'll take smaller check sizes. Was also part of the strategy that the founders of the box gave me. And they said, look, in the end of the day, somebody who invests in your business is also your biggest promoter. And I definitely think that one of the strengths of gospel is its large

partnership, because all these people actually help so much in introducing their network to us, booking private events. And I definitely think that the power of the congregation, if you will, that I sometimes refer us to, is because of such a large partnership. But like I had to change one thing to get a super majority vote in the operating agreement. That was one of the most gruesome experiences to get 80 signatures. Oh, yeah, I'm sure. So who's in this congregation? So I signed a few NDAs. I can't say about everybody's, but we have the founder of Cirque du Soleil,

Kila Liberté, who invested, Black Coffee, the DJ, is one of our investors, and Robert Soros is one of our investors, Bob Pittman from iHeartMedia, Tony Malkin, the owner of the Empire State Building. We've got a lot of really cool cats in our cab table. How did you find these cats? Honestly, the biggest fundraising efforts happened during Burning Man. We would bike around from camp to camp, and we're pitching our concept of building this cultural institution in Soho. And it really resonated with a lot of these people.

And so I think for a lot of people, it was a passion investment. I think that for a lot of people, it was a passion investment. We did sit down with the founder who passed away from Burning Man, Larry Harvey, who credited us that Gospel is the first commercial enterprise that was able to get so many of these thought leaders of the Burning Man community to invest in a project. And we're definitely inspired by the Burning Man culture, but we're very aware to not call ourselves a Burning Man establishment. So you've been a longtime burner.

Yes, that's guilty. Yeah, I've gone every year since I've arrived in New York in 2013, minus the renegade burn when I had my first child. It's a good reason to not believe in Burning Man. I think, you know, under the surface, Burning Man, lots of different kinds of nightlife, whether it's clubs or strip clubs or restaurants or whatever, are like great places that business gets done. I mean, that's not where we lead. So here's the catch with that. And this is something that I'm very disciplined in. When I work at night and I go home, I always write down the people that I've met, the promises that I've made, like, hey, I promised to send this person a link to get that about whatever. And I always

make sure that I follow up the next morning. I make sure that you follow through. I think follow through is a really important aspect to doing business at night and making sure that you follow through. I think follow through is a really important aspect to doing business at night and making sure that you actually follow through. A really funny story is that, and this was like really one of the desperate moments of building gospel, that I went out to this club and there was this investor that I was really trying hard. I texted him many times. He's one of the really big figures in the art world. And he is not going to respond to my texts and phone calls. And I just hit him right in the club, like two in the morning.

I was like, dude, you got to invest in gospel. And he looked at me. He was like, OK, I'll come and see it, right? And he said, OK, I'll come at 7.30 a.m. I set an alarm, took a shower, and I was there 7. What time do you normally wake up? Well, when I go out, not 7.30, I do bring my kids to school every morning. So I am an early riser and I do make it a point to have a big part of my week. But when I go out, I definitely need

to sleep a little more. I've learned like sleeping under six hours doesn't help anybody, but that was a night that I was definitely out until three, four in the morning. But I, my point is, is that I was there at seven.30 and he showed up there at 7.30 precise. Like he was there. And we did a 20-minute walkthrough. He asked me his famous five questions. Investors generally don't ask more than five questions. And if they do, you might want to consider to pass on them.

And after 20 minutes, he was like, okay, I'm in. And he wrote a check. So that's a great story of you can do business at night, but you will get tested. And I was definitely being tested. You know, he didn't need to meet me at 730 in the morning. But what were the five questions? So I've learned from a Goldman Sachs investment banker is that when you raise money, try to be concise with your answers and try to answer the question. Like don't start going off all these stories that somebody doesn't ask. I think it also creates a lot of annoyance with an investor. And an investor generally has five questions. It

could be anything. They could ask you about like, how long is your lease? How much have you raised so far? Who else has invested so far? When do you think you're open? What's your EBITDA projection? They have a bunch of questions. And if you just answered, when you say the EBITDA is like expected to be 10 to 20%, I think I want to pay it back in this amount of time, my lease is this, you answer it as concise as possible, and you allow for them to ask the next question. And then they'll say, listen, it's a pass or, you know, send me the docs. And then when you have big, high profile people, they send their lawyers and accountants on you. And those people get paid a lot of money to ask you a lot of questions.

And those due diligence processes can take up to an hour, two hours on phone calls. You go page by page. But yeah, it's definitely work. It's definitely work. We had a FBI hostage negotiator on one of our shows recently. And he said when somebody is lying, they give a lot of extra detail, you know, maybe lying, but it could also be insecure. I was very insecure in the beginning, like I had no clue how to raise money,

I was talking about like, for 50 minutes about what my food menu could be, and just like things that were completely irrelevant. Whereas the last semester, I was just like, my CFO always has to laugh. I was just like, almost answering with one word. I was like, this is your answer. You definitely get a handle on it as you understand your product better. So to close, I ask all of our guests for one piece of money advice listeners can take straight to the bank. What is yours? All the wisdom is out there, right? Like low index funds and whatnot. I definitely think it's important. That's the most important rule in finance is the compounded effect, right? And so start as early as you can. Start as early as you can. Try to put some and have discipline

around it and put a little bit away. My main one is invest in yourself and believe in yourself. Has anyone ever asked you to get into your balance sheets when they're out? My investors love to ask me that. Yeah, my investors love to ask me that. Well, thank you for indulging my nerdiness. Money Rehab is a production of Money News Network. I'm your host, Nicole Lappin. Money Rehab's executive producer is Morgan Loy. Our researcher is Emily Holmes. Do you need some money rehab? And let's be honest, we all do. So email us your money questions, moneyrehab at moneynewsnetwork.com to potentially have your questions answered on the show or even have a one-on-one intervention with me. And follow

us on Instagram at Money News and TikTok at Money News Network for exclusive video content. And lastly, thank you. No, seriously, thank you. Thank you for listening and for investing in yourself, which is the most important investment you can make.