Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin - Can There Be Peace in Israel? with Ambassador Ron Prosor

Episode Date: November 6, 2023

Last week, the United States House of Representatives passed a plan to provide $14.3 billion in aid to Israel. So, clearly, the conflict in the Middle East will continue to be a big headline in financial news. A few weeks ago, Nicole interviewed Dan Senor, a foreign policy expert, who said that Israel is a country uniquely primed for resilience. But as the war wages on in Israel, resilience feels like it’s far away— or even impossible. To explain how peace could be possible in the region, Nicole talks to Israel's Ambassador to Germany, Ron Prosor. Nicole and Ambassador Prosor talk about the future of the region, demystify some misconceptions about life in Israel and the question of a cease-fire. Ambassador Ron Prosor became Israel's 16th Permanent Representative to the United Nations in June 2011. With over two decades of experience at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Ambassador Prosor has earned an international reputation as one of Israel's most distinguished diplomats. He served for nearly four years as Israel's Ambassador to the United Kingdom and served as the Director General of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs ('04-'07), overseeing the work of the Foreign Ministry during the disengagement from Gaza in 2005.

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I love hosting on Airbnb. It's a great way to bring in some extra cash, but I totally get it that it might sound overwhelming to start or even too complicated if, say, you want to put your summer home in Maine on Airbnb, but you live full time in San Francisco and you can't go to Maine every time you need to change sheets for your guests or something like that. If thoughts like these have been holding you back, I have great news for you. Airbnb has launched a co-host network, which is a network of high quality local co-hosts with Airbnb experience that can take care of your home and your guests. Co-hosts can do what you don't have time for, like managing your

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headline in financial news for some time to come. A few weeks ago, I had Dan Senor, foreign policy expert on the show, who said that Israel is a country uniquely primed for resilience. But as the war wages on in Israel, resilience feels like it is far away or even impossible. To explain, though, how peace could be possible in the region, I'm talking to Ron Prosser, Israel's ambassador to Germany. Here's our conversation. Ambassador Prosser Israel's ambassador to Germany here's our conversation Ambassador Prosser welcome to money rehab happy to be with you how are you how am I say it this way I have a personal history with Germany my father was born in Germany, in Berlin, with a sister, Lieselotte. The family name was Poskauer. And they lived here in Berlin with my grandparents, Friedl and Bertolt Poskauer.

Bertolt Poskauer was a Prussian officer. And the family had to flee Germany at the end of 33. And for me to return to Germany as an ambassador representing the nation state of the Jewish people is closing a circle, is emotional. And I think I could say, Nicole, that it is my calling. When Israel is not at war, what is the primary function of Israel's ambassadors? After the United States of America, Germany is Israel's second strategic partner. And an ambassador deals with, you know, tangibles. For example, when Israel bids on selling the Arrow 3 rocket defense system to Germany,

as you know, there are many competitors and you have to really work with all parts of society, hence with the Bundestag or the parliament, with the Bundestag or the parliament, with the politicians, with making the defense established to really make this deal happen. That takes a lot of energy and at the end of the day,

I can tell you that we were successful in doing that, which means that this export is approximately over $4 billion. Just think of the working places in Israel, what it means for Israel's industry, defense industries. This is one issue. The second issue is the German economy. I mean, I want every Israeli child, German economy. I mean, I want every Israeli child and hopefully an American child to know what the Mittelstand is. The Mittelstands are small enterprises in Germany, which are the backbone of Germans' economy. This Mittelstand looks for partners in high-tech, in technology, and Israel and Germany complement themselves. Then we have an amazing relationship on the research and development issue. And of course, on the political level, on trying to have Germany stand with Israel in this special time after the 7th of October,

standing with us on our side, not wavering, and standing with us, especially in international wars and in the European Union. And, of course, helping us out with things that we need from Germany that pertain exactly to the war that we are now conducting with Hamas. So this is just, you know, off the cuff, things that an ambassador does in one of Israel's biggest embassies in the world. Yeah, well, how has the role changed in the last few weeks? Israel will never be the same again as before the 7th of October. And the mere notion of using those two words, never again,

especially on German soil, is very, very imminent. I mean, never again. And today, when we are at war now with Hamas, I think it's obvious, not just to us, but it's beginning to be obvious to many democratic countries around the world that we are on the front line, but this is a fight for democracy, for freedom, and for exactly the values that democratic societies actually hold.

For the German society, there was just a poll two days ago, 60% of Germans are afraid from what they see on the streets and the violence, and now not directly connected to Jews. And you see a rise in, you know, by 240% on anti-Semitic incidents. Jews, Israelis are afraid to go on the underground, to put a kippah, to talk Hebrew on the cell phones. And Germany, from the chancellor downwards, is really standing firm now. And I'm very, very grateful and I think proud that Germany is doing this first of all for their own sake and secondly basically connecting to what they saw that happened on

the 7th of October I mean I've been thinking a lot about you in this moment in the world you're of course Israel's ambassador to Germany Germany responsible for the Holocaust. You're, of course, Israel's ambassador to Germany, Germany responsible for the Holocaust. Now we're following the most fatal attack on the Jewish people since that time. Do you feel the weight of this? You're in such an important position to feel the significance of this tragedy and the significance in history, really. I think I feel the urge to stand up and basically call it and say, just a second here, wake up. If you don't understand that they are a threat to you, they're a threat to any Western societies. And this, I feel, is for me now, and I think for every Israeli, really, really important.

Because Hamas didn't make a differentiation between, you know, left-wing Jews, right-wing Jews, Orthodox Jews, secular Jews, conservative Jews. Didn't make a difference. conservative Jews didn't make a difference. Any Jew, babies, women, Holocaust survivors, you know, just eliminating, slaughtering, this is who we are up against. I think not just for us, this should be a huge wake-up call for Western democracies. Yeah, because after, should we expect, if you're hearing, more violent demonstrations to continue like this or to escalate? Like, should we have more caution in our daily lives? I think that we can expect the demonstrations to continue, absolutely.

And when people really, you know, incite to kill and to use violence, they will be brought before the courts, which is new in Germany, not easy in Germany, because of the past, because of the respect to privacy. So in a sense,

this is a beginning of a long journey in which I hope at the end of the day, we'll have more people connected to democratic values and beliefs as we all grew up believing it. I hope so. Only time will tell in the future. But let's do a little time traveling to the past for a moment. You oversaw Israel's disengagement from Gaza in 2005. Can you tell us what was happening before the disengagement proposal and then why disengagement was positioned as the right solution for those circumstances at the time? So just think until 2005, basically we said, hey, we don't have a partner we can really make a deal with. The world was pressing. We were thinking, let's try and change the equation. So in essence, the idea of disengagement out of Gaza was that we looked at Israel's national security interests

and analyzed them and said, if we take the 22 settlements in Gaza out, and if we basically go back to the border and also take, and people forget that, four settlements out of Judea and Samaria, we'll show them political horizon, we will change the equation. We are basically going out of Gaza, never to look back into Gaza. What have we lost in Gaza? So in the sense we handed them Gaza,

we thought that we were doing the right thing. We thought that this is going to be an experiment, you know, stage one, for us to be able to continue. But Hamas had a completely different narrative. They said, look at this, the Jews are running away from Gaza. Why are they running away? Because of violence and terror. Let's continue with violence and terror. And people forget that Hamas was voted in 2006 democratically in parentheses, so they voted for Hamas, the population. So in order, you can't really differentiate the way people do

between the leadership of Hamas and the people. What we saw on the 7th of October that many, many people in Gaza, not just Hamas terrorists, went out to the kibbutzim, to the cities, did horrific things out there,

horrific things. Before we move on, we've heard kibbutz or kibbutzim a lot of the news. Can you just explain what a kibbutz is? Both of my parents actually grew up, one in Deganyan, one in Genasar. It's like such a beautiful community. And so for people who might not realize what that is, can you explain? Absolutely. Before even the establishment of the State of Pittsburgh, after the establishment, you know, many came with the socialist ideas and basically said, okay, here we go in communities. We work the land.

Men and women are equal. We put the children together in children homes so the women and the men can go out and work in the fields. Everyone worked. In a sense, the idea was equality. So basically, we all work together. What we bring is divided to all parts of community. In Hebrew, the translation is collectiveness. So in a sense, now you can work outside, but the money that you earn comes to the kibbutz. Decisions were always made in majority, not one person. They go into the dining room and everyone raises, it's like resolutions at the UN, raises a resolution, people debate the resolution, then vote for it. I really have huge, huge respect and appreciation for kibbutzim. Yeah, I agree. And thank you for clarifying the idea of the kibbutzim. I always struggle explaining it as a socialist community because socialism has such a negative connotation. But every time I've gone, it's like this beautiful, happy community that people care about each other. Everybody raises the kids. Both my parents were orphans. They took them in. My father was older than the state of Israel.

And my middle name, Miriam, is actually after the caretaker he had on the kibbutz. And so when you would describe it, like, these are just hippie, happy people together that were so brutally attacked. And I think that if you've never been to Israel, like, you don't realize how brutal that is. Oh, yes. And they were good people. I know today it's simplistic to say, but they were good people with good values and a real notion of respecting every person, no matter what his religion is or who he is. It's a catastrophe. what his religion is, for who he is, it's a catastrophe. As of right now, the situation is still very much a full-on war.

At the time we're recording this, the updates come in by the minute. So let's take a look now at the future. Where do we go from here, Ambassador? What do you expect to happen in the region? So I want to remind our listeners that we already established the Abraham Accords, meaning, you know, peace that we have with the Emirates, with the UAE, that's Dubai, Abu Dhabi, Bahrain, Morocco. In essence, for the first time with the Arab world and this Abraham cause, we have a people to people. So they come with different perceptions that they had of Israel. They thought that we Israelis and Jews have horns.

And they come and visit Israel. They move in Tel Aviv, in Jerusalem. They're amazed, you know amazed what societies they find. And they return with a different perception on Israel and Israelis. Now, don't worry, they don't become Zionists, or they don't donate for trees

and the KKL. But their perception is different. We have peace with Egypt and peace with Jordan. We gave every centimeter territory back to Egypt and to Jordan. Then why am I emphasizing this? Because we were already with one step in achieving peace with Saudi Arabia. So it's not coincidental that when we were already nearing the peace with Saudi Arabia, Iran decided, how can we destroy it?

And in essence, Hamas, unprovoked, no coincidence that it took place when it did, when it did, unprovoked, went out and attacked those terrorists, Israel, in one of our religious days, Simchat Toa, which shows you that the idea was to try and destroy the regional peace that was happening around us. So you asked me, and now I'm coming back to your question, how do I see the future? We have to eliminate Hamas and its leadership. The minute we do that, I think we can begin in going back to trying to create the corporation that hopefully will lead to regional peace. Hold on to your wallets. Money Rehab will be right back. One of the most stressful periods of my life was when I was in credit card debt. I got to a point where I just knew that I had to get it under control for my financial future

and also for my mental health. We've all hit a point where we've realized it was time to make some serious money moves. So take control of your finances by using a Chime checking account with features like no maintenance fees, fee-free overdraft up to $200, or getting paid up to two days early with direct deposit. Learn more at Chime.com slash MNN. When you check out Chime, you'll see that you can overdraft up to $200 with no fees. If you're an OG listener, you know about my infamous $35 overdraft fee that I got from buying a $7 latte and how I am still very fired up about it. If I had Chime back then, that wouldn't even be a story. Make your fall finances a little greener by working toward your financial goals with Chime. Open your account in just two minutes at Chime.com slash MNN. That's Chime.com slash MNN. Chime feels like progress.

Banking services and debit card provided by the Bancorp Bank N.A. or Stride Bank N.A. Members FDIC. SpotMe eligibility requirements and overdraft limits apply. Booths are available to eligible Chime members enrolled in SpotMe and are subject to monthly limits. Terms and conditions apply. Go to Chime.com slash disclosures for details. I love hosting on Airbnb. It's a great way to bring in some extra cash. But I totally get it that it might sound overwhelming to start, or even too complicated, if, say, you want to put your summer home in Maine on Airbnb, but you live full-time in San Francisco and you can't go to Maine every time you need to change sheets for your guests or something like that. If thoughts like these have been holding you back, I have great news for you. Airbnb has launched a co-host network, which is a network of high quality local co-hosts with Airbnb experience that can take care

of your home and your guests. Co-hosts can do what you don't have time for, like managing your reservations, messaging your guests, giving support at the property, or even create your listing for you. I always want to line up a reservation for my house when I'm traveling for work, but sometimes I just don't get around to it because getting ready to travel always feels like a scramble, so I don't end up making time to make my house look guest-friendly. I guess that's the best way to put it. But I'm matching with a co-host, so I can still make that extra cash while also making it easy on myself. Find a co-host at Airbnb.com slash host.

And now for some more money rehab. The U.N. called for a ceasefire, but Israel continues, of course, the counterattack. What do you think it would take for Israel to decide to cease fire? Hamas basically broke the ceasefire that we had. We had a ceasefire with Hamas. They broke it, slaughtering our people. We are not going to give them any ceasefire until we really take out the infrastructure,

the terror infrastructure of Hamas. They abuse their own population and use them really as human shields. And when you zoom out for a second and say, hey, just a second, all the money that was supposed to go, all the cement that you had to build, schools or hospitals, and all the steel that went in, instead of building, what they did is they built tunnels, rockets, used and abused everything in order to create a terror state. And against this terror state, okay, we are now going after those people that created the biggest massacre against the Jewish people after the Holocaust. Can you explain the resolution that was adopted by the UN last week? What can I tell you?

A resolution that does not include, doesn't say anything on who's responsible, that Hamas was responsible for the massacre. It doesn't say anything about the kidnapped 242 from 41 nations. Not a word about Finland being the United Nations. Yeah, really. And I say nothing about Israel's right to defend itself. I mean, those are the elements. Those who voted for such a resolution

can also only say, shame, shame, shame, shame on you. But Germany, where you are abstained from the united nation general assembly vote you said it was morally wrong what did this abstention mean to israel i say that the abstention you know i'll begin like this i think that from day one, the German chancellor was really really clear in his support for Israel saying the only side Germany can be is on Israel's side. Uh no other country has sent the chancellor, the foreign

minister, and the defense minister to Israel and basically support Israel intangibles since the beginning. And then abstaining at the UN. I mean, there's a problematic record of German voting at the UN. And believe me, I was there. I know. So it's not now. But from my point of view, So it's not now, but from my point of view, abstaining on a resolution like that is very disappointing, very, very disappointing. And I made myself publicly also clear on this.

So on the one hand, we have Germany really, and I repeat that, really with us on also intangibles, but on the issue of the UN, I don't understand it. And in five or 10 years, I think it will be looked upon as very disappointing and even harsher words. Yeah, because what kind of message does that send to the world? That just continues to fuel anti-Semitism. As you can see, I'm not going to be the spokesman of the German government on this issue. But again, I have to be fair, the Chancellor, spot on, also in the European Union's support for us, spot on, on really backing Israel on many fronts. We have an amazing cooperation, both militarily and also on other dimensions, which now I see how supportive Germany is to Israel. And again, after saying all this, I told you what I think about the vote at the UN.

I told you what I think about the vote at the UN. What do you think now is the region's best chance at peace? Or is there one? I think we can all agree that nobody wants innocent people to die. But is there a chance for peace? It's very hard to talk about this now because I don't want to be the guy in class that really gets an A mark for showing that he can really think in strategic terms. Now we have to eliminate Hamas's ability to control Gaza. It's obvious we cannot do anything with Hamas, its ideology

and the way it works. We have to eliminate. So in a sense, I can tell you one thing. I don't know exactly what is going to be afterwards. I think I know what we want there to be, but we

have to focus on making sure that Hamas does not control gaza anymore after we finish now what we have with hamas in the south we have something very similar with his balay in the north okay this is something that israel again very very hard because to live with with something like that with the firing power of Hezbollah of 130,000 missiles and rockets more firing power

than most NATO members so in a sense we have to understand that if we want to move forward we need to make sure that elements like that are not there anymore. And it's something which is crucial. We see Iran around those countries.

Those are proxies from Iran. So one of the proxies is Hamas. We saw what they did. The other is Hezbollah. They are now conducting already a limited war up in the north, again, unprovoked by Israel. And suddenly we see missiles flying to Israel from Yemen. Okay?

Yemen, the Houthis, are also proxies of Iran. So this is orchestrated by the mastermind, this evil mastermind in Iran. And we and the world, okay, should understand you can't make deals with the Ayatollahs and the Mullahs. The only deal that you make with them at the end of the day, you'll be hanging in the middle of Tehran. So we have to change the way we see this.

And then I think there are options to continue what we started with, with Saudi Arabia and others, in order to achieve regional peace. But it's going to take a huge time, Nicole. And how do we change people's minds about this idea that I don't understand how Israel loses this PR war, that people are against democracy? Is that essentially, how do we lose this ambassadorship toward young people in the United States? How do we have protests and PR around supporting anything but democracy? What am I missing?

Oh, you're not missing. You're spot on. Look at what happens at Ivy universities. Look what's happening at Harvard or at Yale or at Stanford or at Penn. I mean, really? Students standing up and supporting Hamas? I mean, God, what class did you miss in those Ivy universities? Who's paying for you to really, that's what you're learning out there? So you begin with that, which is, you know, it's shocking for you. It's shocking for me. And I think it should be shocking to anyone that understands what happens at universities now. I mean, this is, you know, a lack of leadership on universities,

you know, deans and heads of universities saying, just a second, this is not freedom of speech here. This is what you're doing is inciting to terror and violence. You're inciting and supporting, you know, butchering people. I mean, really, you've lost the ability to know to make a difference between good and bad, between civilization and barbarism? What classes have you been missing? What whiskey have you been drinking? I mean, wake up, guys. And this is something that I think the world, you in the US, would have to encounter because this is really incomprehensible. There's no other word for me. is really incomprehensible.

There's no other word for me. And how do you suggest to people to become an ad hoc ambassador? I'm not sure how you get to be an actual ambassador. Maybe you can tell me. But if you want to just act as a moral ambassador or as a social ambassador, what would your suggestion be? So first I'll tell our viewers that in most countries, in Israel, the United States, you need at least a bachelor's degree. It doesn't make a difference what from.

I mean, you can be an economist, you can be a lawyer, you can be a dentist, you can be a medical doctor. So in a sense, the bar is at least a BA in order to enter the entrance exams, which are nationwide usually. And then the process takes on those exams because there's three stages approximately a year until you get in into the foreign service and you start as a cadet and you basically start as the second secretary first secretary and then you rise through the ranks so i had the privilege really of starting really as the lowest form of animal life and basically running Israel's foreign service and really having the privilege of being Israel's ambassador to the United Kingdom, United Nations, and Germany.

I really feel privileged. But anyone can be a goodwill ambassador, taking an issue, rallying people around this, and making a difference. We all can make a difference. know, and making a difference. We all can make a difference. We all can make a difference. And we have to believe in that. And we have to take a cause and move forward with it.

And you'll be surprised. If you have a good cause, you push it forward, people will rally behind you. You look like the person who could lead something like this. Sign me up. Ambassador, we end our episodes by asking our guests for one tip that listeners can take straight to the bank. If someone is listening to this from a country outside of Israel and wants their UN representative or their ambassador to support Israel or support anything for that matter, what should they do? First of all, they should not shy and basically talk to the congressman, talk to the staffers, go out there and, you know, create, if you can, you know, social media, videos, YouTube,

YouTube, and maybe, you know, try from your side to explain and support the only democratic state in the Middle East. And I would say, you know, from my point of view, for everyone to know that the state of Israel will always reach out our hand to anyone who wants peace with us. But with the other hand, we're going to hold the shield of David very, very close to our hearts because only a strong Israel, a very strong Israel can achieve peace in this region. Money Rehab is a production of Money News Network. I'm your host, Nicole Lappin. Money Rehab's executive producer is Morgan Lavoie. Our researcher is Emily Holmes. Do you need some money rehab? And let's be honest, we all do. So email us your money questions, moneyrehab at moneynewsnetwork.com to potentially have your questions answered on the show or even

have a one-on-one intervention with me. And follow us on Instagram at Money News and TikTok at Money News Network for exclusive video content. And lastly, thank you. No, seriously, thank you. Thank you for listening and for investing in yourself, which is the most important investment you can make.