Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin - Career Lessons From Embarrassing Yourself on National Television

Episode Date: May 31, 2024

Nicole had a great appearance on Good Morning America… until she made one tiny mistake that she can’t stop thinking about. Nicole talked about this with Entrepreneur Magazine editor-in-chief Jason Feifer on an episode of their podcast Help Wanted, and it's too good not to share with Money Rehabbers. In this conversation, they dig up their most embarrassing moments and workplace missteps, and decide on a benchmark for when to call out your mistakes, and when to keep them to yourself. Never miss an episode, lesson or embarrassing moment on Help Wanted. Subscribe here: https://link.chtbl.com/85RcT5bT

I love hosting on Airbnb. It's a great way to bring in some extra cash. But I totally get it that it might sound overwhelming to start, or even too complicated, if, say, you want to put your summer home in Maine on Airbnb, but you live full-time in San Francisco and you can't go to Maine every time you need to change sheets for your guests or something like that. If thoughts like these have been holding you back, I have great news for you. Airbnb has launched a co-host network, which is a network of high quality local co-hosts with Airbnb experience that can take care of your home and your guests. Co-hosts can do what you don't have time for, like managing your reservations, messaging your guests, giving support at the property, or even create your listing for you.

I always want to line up a reservation for my house when I'm traveling for work, but sometimes I just don't get around to it because getting ready to travel always feels like a scramble, so I don't end up making time to make my house look guest-friendly. I guess that's the best way to put it. But I'm matching with a co-host so I can still make that extra cash while also making it easy on myself. Find a co-host at airbnb.com slash host. One of the most stressful periods of my life was when I was in credit card debt. I got to a point where I just knew that I had to get it under control for my financial future and also for my mental health. We've all hit a point where we've realized it was time to make some serious money moves. So take control of your finances by using a Chime checking account with features like no

maintenance fees, fee-free overdraft up to $200, or getting paid up to two days early with direct deposit. Learn more at Chime.com slash MNN. When you check out Chime, you'll see that you can overdraft up to $200 with no fees. If you're an OG listener, you know about my infamous $35 overdraft fee that I got from buying a $7 latte and how I am still very fired up about it. If I had Chime back then, that wouldn't even be a story. Make your fall finances a little greener by working toward your financial goals with Chime. Open your account in just two minutes at Chime.com slash MNN. That's Chime.com slash MNN. Chime feels like progress. Banking services and debit card provided by the Bancorp Bank N.A. or Stride Bank N.A. Members FDIC. SpotMe eligibility requirements and overdraft limits

apply. Boosts are available to eligible Chime members enrolled in SpotMe and are subject to monthly limits. Terms and conditions apply. Go to Chime.com slash disclosures for details. I'm Nicole Lappin, the only financial expert you don't need a dictionary to understand. It's time for some money rehab. So I've been on TV a long time, like a long, long 20 years long time. I've been on TV shows with hundreds of viewers and TV shows with millions of viewers. I would be lying to you if I said I didn't get nervous every now and then, because for sure I do, and let's be real, especially with the bigger ones. I've been going on Good Morning America a lot lately to talk about the most recent MNN

happenings, which has been awesome for sure. But what hasn't been so awesome was my most recent appearance, where I did what I think was maybe the stupidest thing I've ever done on TV. Jason and I talk about it on a recent episode of Help Wanted, which I am about to share with you because I am a sucker for punishment, I guess. But I think it's a valuable lesson because we all make mistakes at work, and conventional wisdom tells us that we should own up to those mistakes. But actually, as Jason and I discuss, it's not always the right move. This conversation really helped me lick my wounds, but also feel better about the whole thing, so I won't freak out as much when it happens the next time. Although,

I really hope nothing ever this embarrassing ever, ever happens to me ever again. Anyway, I hope you get a good laugh from this one. This is Help Wanted, the show that tackles all the big work questions you cannot ask anyone else. I'm Jason Pfeiffer, editor-in-chief of Entrepreneur Magazine. And I'm New York Times bestselling author and money expert, Nicole Lappin. The helpline is open. Okay, Jason, do you want me to tell you an embarrassing story about myself? I mean, you don't have to ask. You could just jump right into it. It's a recent story. I still feel like my armpits are getting sweaty thinking about it. My palms mostly. Okay, this is good. This is raw. I like raw and embarrassing.

So as we're building this network, I've been lucky enough to be asked to go on Good Morning America a few times. And you're really good at it. Very kind of you to say. I have been doing this TV thing for a couple of decades now. And so I still get a little nervous. I'm not going to lie, like on some big, big shows like that. That makes me feel better, by the way, that you still do. Oh, really? Yeah. Anyway, keep going. Keep going. I like this. Okay. So I went on Good Morning America to talk about the debt ceiling and did the segment. Like there was a lot of facts facts figures breaking down of the thing it went fine like the main

part of the segment was fine when they thanked me for coming which is like the most basic part of this right the outro at the very end of the segment where they're just like thanks thanks for coming on the show Nicole thanks for coming I

don't know how. This has never happened to me before. But I said, what the fuck did I say? Morgan is here because she was also there. So she witnessed this whole thing unfold. Morgan, our executive producer of Help Wanted. I said, you too. Thanks for coming too like thank you for

coming by what did i say quite not i said something terrible like to to analog to i said something like akin to what you would say at the airport when somebody's like have a good flight and you're like you too like they're not going on a flight. And it was mortifying for me. I was completely mortified. What did I say, Morgan? So what you said was, and just to take a step back, because I think it makes a little bit more sense thinking about how the segment started as well. The two hosts, when the segment started was like, friend and Nicole back to them was like hi friend so she had already sort of set up this like call and response situation and so what happened at the end was terrible was that one of the hosts said it's always great to have you here and Nicole said

you too no I think I was like it's always great to have you here or Nicole said you too. No, I think it was like, it's always great to have you here. Or then I was like, I think I trailed off cause I stopped myself. And I- You're right, it could have just been a, it's always great to have you. Yeah, something like that. It could have been that.

We have video evidence of it. I'm like reluctant to go back and check the tape cause it's so cringe worthy. It was not great. Are we going to air this on the show? Should we? The interesting thing is we can air it on social, but we couldn't air it on the podcast because you can't hear Nicole say that at all.

You can. So I get off the segment. I see Morgan. She's like the mom, the cool mom, like on the side of the stage in Mean Girls with the camcorder, like cheering me on, like recording the segment, like so like great to see her shining bright face. Like you crushed it. And I'm like, I'm the worst.

I can't believe I did that. She was like legitimately confused, which made me a little bit more comforted, I guess. But then I was like, you weren't even listening. It was terrible. Everybody hates me. I'm going to like, how did I say something so horrible? I fucked everything up. And she's like, I don't even know what you're talking about. And I was like, you recorded it, right? Like, let's listen to it. And then we went back and listened to it. And sure enough, she was like, oh. But wait, just so that I can understand this scene here. Do you think that the anchors on Good Morning America heard you? That is where the jury is out.

Okay. Well, then how about this? This I know is out. Okay. Well, then how about this? This I know is speculative, but do you think that if the anchors at GMA heard you, they would have cared or thought it was bad or thought it was funny? The mean girl inside my head thinks that they would have thought it was terrible and not funny and escorted me out of the building, right? The worst case scenario yeah so like we went back and we checked the tape and indeed i did say something dumb um yeah not great not ideal and so i started panicking morgan artfully skillfully as usual

talks me off a ledge it's totally fine i did she's like, I believed her. She like didn't hear it live. But like there was some evidence of like a trailing out weird thing that I said. And so I immediately sprung into like, oh, my God. And by the way, the segment that we did was live to tape. So in television, like it's either live live or it's like there's a little bit of a delay in case somebody swears, but it's live or it's, you know, taped, in which case like then it's edited and then air later or it's live to tape. So it's like as but it's live. Or it's, you know, taped, in which case, like, then it's edited and then aired later. Or it's live to tape. So it's like as if it was live, but if something crazy happens

or if you go over for time, like, they can edit it out. For instance, like, they used the wrong cover art of Money Rehab. I saw that going into the segment. It kind of, like, threw me off. And I was like, fuck, we have to make sure that we get them to change that. So stuff like that, they could actually go back and change and they did. So the big question was, do I go back in addition to telling them they used the wrong cover art for the show? Do I say, hey, also this terrible, weird, awkward bananas thing that I said, because also the music was coming out, so I couldn't make fun

of myself, which I may have done. That would have felt right if there was a little bit more time. Should I tell the producer, hey, can you also cut this little part out at the end? And so the debate was, do I call attention to the thing that we don't know if anyone else heard? And this, I think I should just interject to tee up the episode that we're hearing, because this is not just an episode of you telling me this story. This is an episode where we are going to interrogate this kind of question, which is what to do when you have messed up, when you are embarrassed. How do you handle it?

When do you call it out? When do you just keep rolling? And here you had this question, which is, you knew you made a mistake. Let us all be clear. It was a mistake. A pretty small mistake, all things considered. But one that you, television professional, don't feel good that you made. And there is an opportunity to do something about it.

But one that just calls more attention to it. And also maybe you're thinking you don't want to be difficult if there's not a reason to be difficult. And so what do you do when you have made a mistake and you know other people might see you and think that person made a mistake? Or as Nicole said at the time, here's some more color. Like Nicole really was panicking after the segment. And she like crushed this description on the debt ceiling and treasury yields and all of these things that are really complicated. And so that's like such a feat. And Nicole is so defeated in the dressing room and she goes, such a stupid head. So defeated in the dressing room.

And she goes, such a stupid head. Wow. This is really just like the Care Bears version of a big screw up here, right? Like it's a small mistake. And then you're calling yourself a stupid head? Yeah. What did you do? Morgan initially said, don't say anything. Like don't call more attention to it.

Morgan, is that the reason not to say anything? Is because you don't want to draw more attention call Morgan is that the reason not to say anything is because you don't want to draw more attention to it like what was your argument thank you for asking because it wasn't that was okay good misrepresentation let's clear it up oh okay yeah Nicole to me in the green room after the segment was like should I talk to the producer Kevin about it and ask for them to cut it. And I said, no, because nobody noticed. It was such a little teeny tiny thing that the music was already playing over. I didn't notice. And I had my complete all eyeballs on it. And so I was like, the ask to fix this thing is way bigger than the actual thing itself. It was getting spun in your

head out of control. It was this teeny tiny little thing that nobody noticed. So don't ask them to edit it because it's nothing. And then what did I do? Nicole asked them to cut it out. And they said no, because nobody would notice. They said no. Oh my God. Nicole. I'm such a stupid ass. Did that make you feel worse than having had not asked in the first place? Yeah. Morgan was right, as usual. And now that it's out, first of all, did angry hordes of people amass outside your home because you said, thanks you too, or whatever it is that you said on Good Morning America?

Did anybody notice or care? No. I mean, I always get hate stuff, especially after doing more national shows, but no. Okay. So how do you feel now that it is out in the world? It happened. People saw it. Possibly, possibly a suburban mom in Des Moines, Iowa heard it and said,

tiki. Yeah, it's been a couple weeks, I think. What is time? It's been at least a week. And so obviously, like I've had some space from it. It still is something that makes me feel like a not smart head, at but yeah like i don't really care now okay but it cut really deep at the time and i was in it ruined my day basically but also which it shouldn't have ruined my day like i had like an award thing and i should have like been able to move on i was contemplating whether to make fun of myself and then draw more attention to it in a different way by putting it online and being like, I'm such a money experts are just like us. Yeah, yeah.

So I was confronted with that as another, like, choose your own adventure option. Sure. So lean right into it. But you didn't do that. I didn't. So then when we decided to talk about it on this episode, was there a part of you that said, no, let's just not do that. Let us ignore that this ever happened. No, this feels right. I feel good about it. All things considered, I should have listened to Morgan and I should have just not brought it up and not gone into like a panic spiral. But I'm okay that it came out. and I'm okay that I didn't call

attention to it because that was like a big week for us we had you know I leaned into the actual content of the debt ceiling stuff and breaking that down and like the webby awards and all that stuff like I focused on the big things without you know poking more fun at myself yeah on it so I skipped that too which I'm fine with but now I'm also fine like making fun at myself on it. So I skipped that too, which I'm fine with. But now I'm also fine making fun of myself as you guys know I am down to do. I think that the question at the heart of this is what to do when the mistake is made.

And in this case, I think that it was very clear. You weren't on the show, Jason. If you were able to step out of the panic attack, what should have happened? Because it wasn't that big of a deal. People have made incredibly large errors on television. This wasn't one of them. But I am going to counter this. Well, let's like put this on the shelf for a second. And then I'm going to tell a edited version of a story that Nicole, you will remember because it involves me calling you in a panic after I said something. And that was that I was interviewed on this radio show, but it wasn't live. One of the options that you said where

they recorded it and they'd like to just air it as it was recorded, but it wasn't live immediately. It was going to air like in a day or two. And the host had asked me a very sensitive business-related question about entrepreneur or the company. And I am not used to fielding those questions because people generally ask me about entrepreneurs and the stuff that I'm very comfortable talking about. And I really don't speak to that side of the business. I can speak to editorial decisions that we make. But they asked me a question about the business side. It was a sensitive question. And I think that my answer was okay. But afterwards, I just was in a panic about

whether I said the right thing and what would happen if the owner of entrepreneur heard it. Did I properly represent the brand? Did I say something irresponsible? And I did not know what to do. And I called you. And the advice that you gave me was pretty similar to the advice that Morgan gave you, which is to say that it's fine. What you said sounds fine. I mean, I didn't have the recording at the time, but I repeated back to you what I had said. And you're like, I think that it's fine. And I, just like you in that moment, did not listen. And I reached out and I asked them to take it out. Oh, I didn't know that part. Oh, oh, maybe I never gave you the follow up. I thought we had come to terms with that. Interesting. We did. And then and then

I kept freaking out. Yeah, I get it. Clearly. No, I get it. I felt good when I was on the phone with you. And then I got off the phone. And then I fell right back into the panic. And I like slow walked into it in the most embarrassing way where I first at first I emailed the guy and I was like, Hey, I'm just not sure if I answered that question properly. And he responded and said, oh, well, here's the audio of it so you could hear it. And then I responded. I was like, oh, could you maybe, I don't know, is there a way to trim it down or something like that? And he's like, no, I don't think so. And I said, is there a way to take it out? Like I should have just said, I should have made a decision. I didn't make a decision. I kind of kept wading into it. But

anyway, he ultimately took it out. And I, as soon as he told me that he did that, my wave of panic just disappeared because it was gone. It was over. And I have to say that in my case, I am going to say I made the right decision. And here's the distinction that I'm going to propose to the both of you, and you can decide whether or not to accept it. Stick around. Help Wanted will be right back. I love hosting on Airbnb. It's a great way to bring in some extra cash. But I totally get it that it might sound overwhelming to start or even too complicated if, say, you want to put your summer home in Maine on Airbnb, but you live full time in San Francisco and you can't go to Maine every time you need to change

sheets for your guests or something like that. If thoughts like these have been holding you back, I have great news for you. Airbnb has launched a co-host network, which is a network of high quality local co-hosts with Airbnb experience that can take care of your home and your guests. Co-hosts can do what you don't have time for, like managing your reservations, messaging your guests, giving support at the property, or even create your listing for you. I always want to line up a reservation for my house when I'm traveling for work, but sometimes I just don't get around to it because getting ready to travel always feels like a scramble, so I don't end up making time to make my house look guest-friendly. I guess that's the best way

to put it. But I'm matching with a co-host so I can still make that extra cash while also making it easy on myself. Find a co-host at Airbnb.com slash host. One of the most stressful periods of my life was when I was in credit card debt. I got to a point where I just knew that I had to get it under control for my financial future and also for my mental health. We've all hit a point where we've realized it was time to make some serious money moves. So take control of your finances by using a Chime checking account with features like no maintenance fees, fee-free overdraft up to $200, or getting paid up to two days early with direct deposit. Learn more at Chime.com slash MNN. When you check out Chime, you'll see that you can overdraft up to $200 with no fees.

If you're an OG listener, you know about my infamous $35 overdraft fee that I got from buying a $7 latte and how I am still very fired up about it. If I had Chime back then, that wouldn't even be a story. Make your fall finances a little greener by working toward your financial goals with Chime. Open your account in just two minutes at Chime.com slash MNN. That's Chime.com slash MNN. Chime feels like progress. Banking services and debit card provided by the Bank Corp Bank N.A. or Stride Bank N.A. Members FDIC. SpotMe eligibility requirements and overdraft limits apply. Boosts are available to eligible Chime members enrolled in SpotMe Me again. I hope you're loving this conversation. And I know you are. Of course you are. Don't forget to subscribe to Help Wanted. The link is in the episode description. Okay, back to me and Jason.

Welcome back to Help Wanted. Let's get to it. The distinction about whether or not to try to fix something when you messed up or to call more attention to it or to do something more drastic or whatever it is that these things represent, because ultimately what we're talking about here is the broader experience of messing up and then trying to figure out how to react to it, is that I think that you have to realistically evaluate the stakes. And a good way to do that is to ask, what is the realistic worst case scenario? And Nicole, in your case, I think that the realistic worst case scenario is that some people heard it and thought that it was funny.

And I don't think that it's the kind of thing that anyone at Team GMA would listen to and say, well, we can't have Nicole Lappin back on to make that kind of embarrassment on the air. Like, it wasn't going to impact anything substantive going forward. Whereas mine, the realistic, I think, worst case scenario was that the owner of entrepreneur heard it and thought it was inappropriate. And then that impacted my role at entrepreneur. And I think that it's worth thinking very realistically, what is the worst case scenario here? And then acting accordingly. What do you think?

Yeah. But you can't be realistic during those times. Like it's just like your realistical faculties are broken. They're just like, it's not you're not in the realm of practical. I you know, the death spiral was like, they're never gonna invite me back. I have, you know, so much pressure on this company, like we're solidifying these relationships, like it's gonna ruin the company we're like never gonna be able to get out there like i have you know people that we have to support like lives and you know like i fucked it all you know there was no like reasoning during that time with me or like frankly i mean maybe with you because you, it was clear that there could be like a legal ramification.

But for me, I was like there as much as Morgan tried to get me into like a realistic assessment of worst case scenario, I wasn't going to get there. But now I can. That's what time does. It gives you some realism. Yeah. One way to maybe gain some perspective on this is to, let's take a little dive into counterfactual thinking. And so counterfactual thinking being

the psychological term for comparing the experience that you had against an imagined experience, and then ruminating really about how you generally, the way that it works is that you wish that you had the other experience instead. So the counterfactual thinking will be the way in which you said something on TV versus the better way you could have said it, which is a kind of upward counterfactual thinking. We often don't do downward counterfactual thinking, which is to say that we compare what we did against a way in which it could have gone even worse, right? I mean, what could have happened is that they said, Nicole, thanks for coming on the show. And you could have said, fuck you all, right? Like that

could have happened. It's unlikely, but it could have happened. And that would have been worse, That would have been worse, right? So what we're doing is we're comparing what we did against the perfect version that we can imagine. And that is really unfair to us because there is a world of possibilities out there and most of them are actually worse than the thing that we actually experienced. And this isn't me talking, this is I had interviewed a couple psychologists about counterfactual thinking because I became interested in it. And they said that's a way to break that cycle is to stop locking yourself into

one way in which it could have otherwise happened the better way and to start imagining all the other scenarios so that you recognize like what you did actually in a broader spectrum of what could have happened. Yeah, it's like this power of negative thinking versus power of positive thinking, which we hear a lot. I think of it too as like this soicism idea that I've talked about on the show before of like imagining what the worst case scenario is too, and then figuring out like what would happen if that happened. Like really playing out your fears. And saying like, okay, well, let's say they said something.

Then what would happen? Then maybe I would just like laugh it off and be like, you know, but didn't I like tell you about the debt ceiling like a boss? I don't know. Or would they have said they wouldn't invite me back? Then what would I do? Would I pitch them more things? Whatever like long story short it would be okay Like would somebody come and take the company away and like do all of those things? No

but like the realistic worst-case scenarios like if you keep going down that thread The answer is always like you will be okay. And then I find comfort in that. Because there's always something tomorrow, right? The world does not end because of a decision. Something's going to happen tomorrow. So there's something to do, to fix, to adapt to, to adjust to, to create some other new opportunity, something like... A big part of the problem when we are afraid of the consequences of something that happened

is that we just kind of imagine the story stopping. You said the thing on GMA and then they didn't invite you back and that's the end, curtain down, right? But like, that's how it happens. Like something- She was a nice woman. Like something's gonna happen tomorrow.

That's true. You know, I think that these skills that are really beneficial in psychology can be really beneficial depending on the time and the place in business. Right. Like there is a time and a place for power of positive thinking, for power of negative thinking, for like stoicism, for playing out the worst case scenario, but also playing out the best case scenario, right? Like we always have this negativity bias, especially like when things like this happen and we just imagine, you know, the worst case scenario. But like, what about the best case scenario? What if they were like, oh my God, that was so charming. Come on every day. Like how real, like you're just like the realest, coolest, most normal, like money expert is just like us.

Like that's what we're looking for in this show. Yeah, that's totally right. It's a great point. And that reminds me of this thing that happened back in 2021, which was that, if you remember this, an HBO Max intern, which I guess is now just called Max, which is, can we all agree, the worst branding decision of all time. But back then, HBO Max, an HBO Max intern accidentally sent a test email to all the subscribers, which meant however many hundreds of thousands or millions of people,

I don't know, of people all got this random email from HBO Max that just said, integration test email number one. And that was it. And so that was probably a very bad day for that intern. And HBO Max, whoever over there made this decision, made a really wonderful decision to just make light of it and tweeted out, we mistakenly sent out an empty test email to a portion of our HBO Max mailing list this evening. We apologize for the inconvenience. And as the jokes pile in, because of course people started making jokes on Twitter. Yes, it was the intern.

No, really. And we're helping them through it. Heart emoji. And do you remember what followed that? No. So what followed that was this wonderful outpouring of people on Twitter, all sharing the time where they screwed up as an intern. I will read some of them to you. Dear intern, when I was 25, I made a PDF assigning

each employee to the Muppet they most reminded me of. I meant to send it to my work friend, but I accidentally sent it to the entire company. My supervisor and speaker wanted to fire me, but the owners, Bert and Ernie, intervened, which I think is lovely. Dear intern, I was using my desktop calendar to make a monthly note of when I started my menstrual period, but after several months, I realized I was making that note on a calendar I shared with all of my colleagues company-wide. I was 37 years old. Okay, so these aren't just when they were interns. These are just mistakes people made. Dear intern, as a young lawyer, I proofread a legal brief and filed it with the court.

I caught a typo and blindly used the global find and replace function. Pro tip, don't do that. My brief argued for the rights of the panties, not the parties. All 50 pages of it. And it keeps on going. That's amazing. And then that got its own wave of coverage. And the lesson there is that sometimes you mess up, and it's a big deal. And sometimes you mess up, and everyone else messed up too,

and they all relate to it, and it's all okay. And I think that a lot of what's going to come next and what direction that's going to go depends upon the actions that are taken immediately after. Yeah, but I guess there's also this idea of really leaning into what the mistake is can backfire. We've seen that a lot on social media. In the last decade, we just had this authenticity rise and like I'm feeling some authenticity fatigue so that's why I didn't think it was like particularly interesting for me because I could have said let's just pull this part of the clip out and like highlight it right this was like the time I went into Barnes & Noble after Boss Bitch was written and I saw an X on my face on one of the books that I was signing and I was like totally mortified my initial instinct and this is like

pre-authenticity like blitz I wanted to buy the book and hide it and make sure nobody saw it but instead like I put it on social media and I was like thank you to this person who did that or whatever so I could have done you know something similar where I was like, thank you to this person who did that or whatever. So I could have done something similar where I just really tried to be vulnerable and authentic and all that stuff and share your stories. But when you said a stupid thing back to the person wishing you a good flight or whatever. But I just felt like it was too much. Yeah, I think that we're at a tipping point of some of that. So a lot of companies can also try to fix mistakes by just like being super, super honest, right? And it has this great effect of like dear intern and this kind of nice moment. But maybe like there are also there's a time and a place where you don't

need to highlight it. You don't need to hide it, but you also don't need to like underline it. Right. What we're not advocating for here is a world in which everybody's mistake becomes this thing that gets waved around. But I hadn't thought about this until you kind of put these two things side by side. But in a way, I guess the question that needs to be asked, I think you tell me, the question that needs to be asked is, how do I make this right? And there are a lot of ways to do that. And sometimes, how do I make this right is I will wave this in the air and other people will appreciate it and they will rally to me. Sometimes, how do I make this right is I will bury this six feet under the ground and nobody will ever hear about it again. And neither of those are right or wrong. They just are.

And so I guess the thing to do is to ask that question and then follow it to whatever its most logical and comfortable conclusion is. What do you think about that? What struck me about your two stories, also side by side, it reminded me of this psychotherapist, Julia Samuels, who has this really interesting, the way that she implements her research around fight and flight is really interesting. But she makes the point that when we make a mistake and we feel this anxiety, we are just animals under fight or flight. And so we have to do something like that's the way that we're programmed.

We have we won't feel better until we do something. And so that seemed to be what both of you guys did. You were like, I feel like I made a mistake and I will not be able to feel better unless I do something. And I saw that with you, Nicole. You were like, I am a dummy. And you couldn't shake that until you talked to the GMA producer. But I think actually kind of more of

the difference than the stakes. I see the big difference between the two of your stories is that Jason, you got what you asked for and Nicole, you didn't. And so you had to make yourself feel better, Nicole, yourself. And Jason, you had help with your problem. Nicole, you didn't. You were just out on your own and you had to make yourself feel better. And so, you had help with your problem. Nicole, you didn't. You were just out on your own and you had to make yourself feel better. And so what I hear is that it doesn't matter if your mistake is big or small, actually, you're not going to feel better unless you do something about it. And if it's a proper mistake that you need to fix, that will make you feel better. But even if it's a little mistake, you need to do something that'll make yourself feel

better. And so maybe it's just asking the GMA producer to cut it out, or maybe it's just sharing about it on social media. But just doing something that I think is commensurate with actually the mistake is the key. Do you remember what I did to self-soothe ultimately? Alcohol. Close. I had a big cookie. That's a very well-earned cookie. Absolutely. And that's commensurate with the crime. It was a cookie mistake because I'm not a stupid head. No, just a cookie head. Well, Nicole and Morgan, thanks for coming on the show.

You too. Help Wanted is a production of Money News Network. Help Wanted is hosted by me, Jason Pfeiffer. And me, Nicole Lapin. Our executive producer is Morgan Lavoie. If you want some help, email our helpline at helpwanted at moneynewsnetwork.com for the chance to have some of your questions answered on the show. And follow us on Instagram at moneynews and TikTok at moneynewsnetwork

for exclusive content and to see our beautiful faces. Maybe a little dance? Oh, I didn't sign up for that. All right. Well, talk to you soon. Bye. you you