Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin - Cheryl Burke on the Money Trail of "Dancing with the Stars" and Mental Health in the Dance Community

Episode Date: March 3, 2023

After 26 (!) seasons, Cheryl Burke announced in November that she would be retiring from Dancing with the Stars. If you're asking "what is she doing next?" You might be asking the wrong question. In this conversation, she explains why. Plus, Nicole asks Cheryl to how much DWTS pros and celebs get paid and spoiler alert: the rumored numbers are way, way off.

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Find a co-host at Airbnb.com slash host. I'm Nicole Lappin, the only financial expert you don't need a dictionary to understand. It's time for some money rehab. According to the BBC, most dancers retire between the ages of 35 and 40. So just to do that quick math for you, that's 30 years shorter than the average lifespan of the American career. As a financial person, I have a lot of questions here. Like, can you support yourself on a career with an uber short lifespan? Today, I'm talking this out with Cheryl Burke, Dancing

with the Stars alum who just announced her departure from the show in November. Plus, you know me, I had to follow the money trail of Dancing with the Stars. And let me tell you, I was blown away by the insider info here, especially how much those costumes cost. Listen to this. Cheryl Burke, welcome to Money Rehab. Thank you. It's so good to see you in person. I only know you via Zoom. Okay, so you left dancing with the stars just recently after 500 years 500 000 seasons yes what's the rent song 525 like that's counting like how many 26 seasons i've done a total of 26 seasons over a span of 17 years oh my god and was your body just done ready to retire but you know it wasn't I could have probably danced another few seasons but it was more um mentally and growth you know I think I was I've

been and I still am in a period of change and uh evolving as a human being and for me it's like growth doesn't come from comfort zones you know whatsoever so though it was as scary as I don't know if you can swear but as shit it was and i'm still waiting like in a way it's like well sometimes i still teeter totter back and i'm like did i make even the right decision or um am i just needing to be patient and just let it you know let it be because it's just never comfortable you know i don't remember the last time i made a decision like this was actually moving to LA to do the show. And it was just as uncomfortable. I also know that there's so many dancers that want my job, you know, and I'm like,

I've done this, like, there's nothing else for me to prove, you know, and I would have hoped to maybe have grown within the family. But you know you know, if they don't necessarily see me as another role as a part of the brand, Dancing with the Stars, that's totally fine. But I need to move forward then. So you said you were teetering back and forth, like if you made the right decision. You're not going to pull a Tom Brady, are you?

Hell no. Not going back. No, no, no. Is there any celebrity you would go back for? No. Brad Pitt. You heard it here first. He would never do heard it here first he would never do it though he would never do it he's the only one yeah who is your favorite to work with Emmett Smith was definitely one of my favorites he we went back in season three during the younger days of my

Dancing with the Stars career and then um AJ McLean Backstreet Boys he was a good one yeah but what's so great about Dancing with the Stars is that it's created so much wealth for dancers yeah in a space that's not typically associated with making a lot of money oh for sure you do it for the passion and the art and the all the good touchy-feely warm fuzzy things which is great then you're like now what because a dancer's life is not very long. I should have retired a long time ago. Because especially as a competitor, you don't really make money as a competitor. You make money because of the status, because of where you are in the world or where you're ranked. And then from there, you get students, you get to do like showcases.

But still, you don't make that much money in the competitive world. It's honestly for only, and I say this, I'm not exaggerating, it's only for the love of dance. You spend money more than you make money. So with all these parents who have their kids in ballroom, only, I'm only speaking ballroom, that genre, ballroom dancing, competitive ballroom dancing, you, they work their asses off to support their kid for you to then just win a plastic trophy like there's really nothing there's no money not even as a professional competitor so those cost like all this stuff is expensive how much is all that well i mean nowadays it's probably i i don't even know it's

probably at least 15 to 20 000 for a costume but like wait what sponsored because it's swarovski rhinestones oh yeah stop it wait and it's all made by hand one costume probably depending like those were the costumes you were wearing oh yeah for 15 grand girl i don't know well it's not like you ever go to the marriott and look at the dance competition there that's where we have most of them but yeah yeah easily because those are real swarovski right especially nowadays yeah sorry continue no because but they start like one by one damn okay i didn't know yeah the wardrobe team does not get enough props they whip this stuff up in three days it's like a turnaround of three days because it's a live show okay okay so all this stuff is expensive costumes are expensive

lessons dance lessons travel hotel coaching rental you know unless you're again sponsored and you're like top seven of the world but it is fun to follow the money trail so will you help me do that yeah so the first thing i saw in my research oh no is that celebrity guests make a lot more than the pros on the show. Is that right? Not always. And everything on the internet that I've seen is so wrong. Every single article. But we also, it's not favored nations anymore as pro dancers. What does that mean? Favored nations means that we all get paid the same, equal. But we did back in the day, me and the dancers, I can only speak on behalf of myself, obviously, and then maybe the dancers, but no more. Because I've been on for 25 seasons, and then Joe Schmo, who comes on for a season,

there's no way in hell you're going to get paid the same as I am. You shouldn't. Right. You're putting your time. You wore a lot of Swarovski crystal outfits. Lots, yeah. Well, what it says is that for this, what I found really interesting is that the more weeks you're on, the more you get paid.

That is true. Okay. Yeah. So there's this like incentive to do well for the celebs especially some dancers though don't you get a guarantee sometimes no matter how many some of them so I don't I can only speak for myself I got a guarantee okay so if you were with a partner that wasn't great I still would get a guarantee. Perfect. Not necessarily for the whole season though. Okay. But for most of it. So if you won or if you were eliminated, same, same. No, if you win, it would be a lot more. How does that work? Because it wasn't for, so the amount wasn't necessarily from week one of the training period, which is three weeks before we go live till week 10 or 11, depending on how long the show is.

Right. So I get up, I'd get paid up till a certain week. And then if I continued, then I'd get more and more and more until hopefully I make the finale. But if I got eliminated first, I would still get paid up till that certain week. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah. But it sounds like you're seriously incentivized, right?

To stay on the show as long as possible. Does that sound like a healthy system to you? That sounds really stressful to me. What do you mean? Like, if you're going to get paid more the longer you're on, does that make you crazy? Crazier? My situation, I was very blessed in the fact that I always got asked back. So it wasn't a one and done.

And not every dancer can say that, you know. What the internet says is that the starting salary for a pro is sixteen hundred dollars an episode no it's way higher hopefully I mean what if I were to say way lower can you imagine no it's not that low it's higher okay so it said allegedly that if you're a pro who's been on for a while, you could get like five grand an episode. That is ridiculous. It's higher. That's all I'm going to say.

Like a lot higher? Like a lot higher. That is ridiculous, that number. This is why I know what you're reading. It is so off. It's like I can't even – I'm laughing out loud every time I see something like that or when other articles write about that article. So how did you determine your partner? If you're more incentivized, generally speaking, if you're generally making more money, right, the longer you stay on,

are you more like, I want a good partner? But we all want that. But I want more of a partner. We don't pick our partners. I wish we did. But no, we actually have a casting director and then they all meet because they now know, like for the ones that have been on, the dancers that have been on the longest like you understand like I was known as their

task master like I was known as this person who probably doesn't know who the celebrity is and who doesn't care if you're a celebrity so if you come into this dance studio and you say you want to win then let's no bullshit so this is who anyway, right? So they know not to put like this sensitive, vulnerable man with me because I would tear it apart. So I've always had sports players, not all, but most of them. And when it comes to dance ability, I'd much rather have like Jack Osborne and Rob Kardashian were two of my favorite dance partners because they came into the show with zero dance experience, but they were so genuine and authentic to who they were and they weren't scared to be vulnerable. So as a celebrity going into the show, you, if you are too insecure to be vulnerable, you should never sign up for Dancing with the Stars,

period, end of discussion. You need to be able to trust somebody who you may not have never met, but like we are there for you you know we're there for the celebrities and when you don't trust them then it's a nightmare because i think like you know the athletes look really fit or are really fit but that doesn't translate into dancing no it's mentally fit it's who's mentally the fittest it's nothing to do with physical it's 90 seconds if that's 60 seconds like you can fucking do it for 60 seconds. Maybe comedy is in the future. You're hilarious. I could now that would be like me dancing ass naked. I couldn't do it. No, I could not do stand up. And what happens if you're injured?

Like, do you not get paid or anything if you're injured? So I, I, uh, I wouldn't like to say I broke my partner's arm. I've broken a lot of my dance partners before. Like one completely fractured his foot. Another one's arm, like something snapped on live TV. And we continued, but we made the final because of it. So it depends on how injured you get. Now, Misty May, I forgot her last name,

but she's a soccer player. She played for the US team. She, her Achilles popped live during rehearsal. So she had to bow out completely. But like the ones that can still have, like if you break one arm, don't worry, you got another arm. Like we can make it happen.

If you can actually get through it. That's bananas to me. This is why God made two god made two like no arms two legs if one goes wrong you got another one we're good i'm dead this is fucking survivor i'm telling you i've always compared dancing with the stars in a good way and bad but to survivor okay this is a really nerdy question do you have special insurance i have insured my legs lloyds of london yes absolutely how much are they insured for a lot yeah great couple million great i'd make more money if someone ran me over just now than if i were to sometimes i'd say this is

a joke i'm like that's all right it's fine go ahead run me over oh my god and you've always had that i've had it since since i heard i this was like season three or four i remember nancy odell saying that she insured her legs and i was like yes bitch apps if your legs are insured for just sitting beautiful there underneath this desk then my legs have to be insured too i love this i mean like yo-yo ma's fingers i don't think everyone does this but I mean you pay. It's not cheap.

No. Yeah. The premiums are crazy. Yeah. Because it's like exotic. It's not like you go to Geico and you're like

yo I want car insurance and leg insurance. No. No. Definitely not. And absolutely like you need health insurance first.

Like this is just like if you have some extra saved up. I love this. I'm so happy you did'm so happy this is my life yes can you imagine no i see i didn't have a normal uh childhood because my mom was very much a tiger and she still is tiger mom and so it was only dance rehearsal and a's or b's at school in school like it was like there was no other or dancing when my mom and i would fight it'd be me dancing in the middle of Union Square I'm from the Bay Area so and making money that way tell me more about that oh so my mom and I I remember got in a fight over a period of time she goes you're not I'm not paying for your flights to Blackpool England which is equivalent to the Olympics for the ballroom world

so we would always travel there every year like May end, end of May. And I said, okay, fine. And so I had to, me and my partner, we were in those Adidas like ripaways. Yes. With somebody holding a cardboard like piece and saying, help these dancers get to England. And we, and someone was holding a boom box. I'm not kidding. This was like back in the nineties, still, we made around $2,000. Just from like tips.

From people, yeah. I mean, we were dancing our hearts and souls out. But yeah. Maybe Cheryl. I was like 13 years old or 14. And you went. Bye, mom. Don't need your money, mom.

And was that the first time where you were like, yeah, I can make money dancing? No. No, because it was instilled in my brain that I was never going to make money because my mom's a businesswoman, you know, so she came from like rags to riches. Long story short, she grew up in poverty in the Philippines. And then she had this idea. She was a nurse as not all, but most Filipino women are. And she thought of developing the very first nursing agency. She really made a huge name for herself. And, you know, she also instilled in my brain, like, how can you make money at,

this was before Dancing with the Stars or before any reality show, but how do you make money when it, when dancing requires you and you don't have employees working for you? You can't make money in your sleep when you're dancing. She's asking how do you scale your business? Well, sure.

Because if you're in the business, if your body is in the business. No, and she's right, by the way. And I'm not even saying well I told you so mom but like yes absolutely like who knew that this was ever going to happen dancers were known to be backup dancers you know yeah I mean or not make a lot of money like I start listen okay I went to performing arts high school and was a dancer you look like a dancer talk about you really do a million and a half years ago you're ballerina and I was like I but I need to make money yes and I was like I can't make money You look like a dancer. Talk about a million and a half years ago. You're a ballerina.

And I was like, but I need to make money. Yes. And I was like, I can't make money. And so I'm sure your mom didn't want you to dance because you weren't going to make money. Or she assumed you weren't going to make money. Yeah, for sure. Because it was like, unless you are, well, at that time, it was like, no, I mean, Jennifer Lopez, but like she had just like, she's a triple threat. I don't, I definitely don't sing.

Don't want to hear that. There was no there was nothing to compare what it is now to back then. Look at you defying those odds. I mean, I could have been a part of In Living Color, but that was before my time. I could have been a fly girl. Hold on to your wallets. Money Rehab will be right back. I love hosting on Airbnb. It's a great way to

bring in some extra cash, but I totally get it that it might sound overwhelming to start or even too complicated if, say, you want to put your summer home in Maine on Airbnb, but you live full time in San Francisco and you can't go to Maine every time you need to change sheets for your guests or something like that. If thoughts like these have been holding you back, I have great news for you. Airbnb has launched a co-host network, which is a network of high quality local co-hosts with Airbnb experience that can take care of your home and your guests. Co-hosts can do what you don't have time for, like managing your reservations, messaging your guests, giving support at the property, or even create your listing for you. I always want to line up a reservation for my house when I'm traveling for work,

but sometimes I just don't get around to it because getting ready to travel always feels like a scramble, so I don't end up making time to make my house look guest-friendly. I guess that's the best way to put it. But I'm matching with a co-host, so I can still make that extra cash while also making it easy on myself. Find a co-host at Airbnb.com slash host. And now for some more money rehab. So you're in this transition period. How does that feel? And I think a lot of listeners can relate to that, right? You grew up in this career, literally,

and now you're potentially going to other careers or trying new verticals. Yeah, it's not easy because I'm very much branded by Dancing with the Stars. Like, oh, it's that dancer, you know, dance monkey dance. It's like, no. However, I know a lot of people who are in this business who just refuse to try and find another job or another title or even like if they're like a child actor, it's very rare that they switch careers, even if they're not working. Right. But you did. It sounds like what is... I'm trying. It's not easy. It's definitely something that I hope one day we can switch the mentality and just celebrate more of the times that we have off. I always have guilt or

shame for just like, maybe I just don't know what to answer when you ask me what's next like I actually don't know but you can own it and be in that power it sounds like you've done the work around it um but amen for that it sounds like you want to put your busy badge of honor down yeah because it's not necessarily busy like it's not productive like busy doesn't mean productive and I'm really trying to learn that that's hard for me to swallow where do you think the shame comes from is it that you're always pushed to achieve was it yeah my mom yeah okay yeah but it's not my mom pushing it on me it's just seeing her hustle and not everyone's hustle is gonna be the same or valued the same and again

like we talked about earlier before this podcast, it was, it's really about filling yourself up from the inside out and not from the outside in. And it's so much easier said than done. And I'm by no means even close to perfecting it because I still find pleasure, or I think I find pleasure in other things now that I'm sober, like shopping or like Amazon. But then, you know, it's interesting because I've also noticed, and this is a lot of work, meaning like having to observe my feelings instead of feeling brainwashed by my own thoughts,

you know, because it's not real, most of our thoughts. I mean, we do search for external solutions to internal problems, but we all, it's like- It doesn't make you feel better. A couple steps forward, a couple steps back. It doesn't, but it feels like a quick fix at the time. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, I think that sometimes even when you do this work, you have to remember that it's chaos and balance have to coexist. Because sometimes when there's chaos, you're like, oh, I'll get back to that self-discovery, self-help stuff later after this. But they're always going to exist together. It's always going to be another project. It's always going to be another thing. It's interesting you say that because I think I

am addicted to fight, flight, or freeze because that's what I know. So that's my survival mechanism. But that was when I really needed to do that, when I was being sexually abused when I was younger. But now to live like this is another way of living with a very stressful mindset, but yet we still celebrate it in a weird way. And I always say, oh, I'm an adrenaline junkie, which is just a lazy answer. I think for me, it's more like, I don't know, though I, there are moments of peace and ease. And cause that's all, that's just for me, that's the ultimate, right? To feel peace, to feel like I'm safe is a big thing. And so I used to relate to that feeling as being like bored and stagnant. And it's actually quite the opposite. I always

wanted to, and this is why I think I had such bad relationships was because I, it was the roller coaster ride for me. It was kind of like, that is what, oh, well, this is what love is. Cause it's familiar. Cause like that chaos. Right. And you see it also in the movies,

like you see it on television and that's not a real definition of love. The notebook isn't real. Breaking news. Hello. You heard it here first. Yeah. You can be addicted to the, you know,

extreme highs and lows until, you know, you say that, you know, you're an adrenaline junkie or you're something else. You can, it sounds like you're evolving what that definition of yourself is. Yeah. And that was just my way of numbing too. It's like always chasing. Yeah. I mean, I prescribe not drugs or alcohol, but work. I work to hide from a chronically abusive and chaotic upbringing. I saw your post about Twitch. Do you feel like in the dance community, this is a silent struggle? I don't think it's the dance community. I think it's a community we are in as a whole. I think that people are suffering in silence. Have you ever met him?

No. So he was this light, you know, and I'm sure he's even brighter now, you know, but like everybody felt so connected and it was, I could tell, I just, you know, I wasn't very close to Twitch, but I did shoot a pilot with him a couple of years ago. And he's the type of, like, what I observed as well, when we had mutual friends, people go to him for just to talk it out, you know? And I guess when this happened, I thought to myself, did he ever have somebody to talk to other than people that were his friends or family? Like I always say, maybe therapy isn't like in-person therapy isn't always for everybody. And it's honestly

only for people who can afford it and it's not attainable, but there's so many resources out there. And it's not just about a one-on-one session with your therapist. Like the amount of online courses I've been doing does not cost a lot of money. If anything, it's free or they offer scholarship and you can totally do it. It's just about setting 15 to 20 minutes aside for yourself every single day. Because like really when you, when you, and I think a lot of people are like this, including myself, like sometimes you just, you don't put yourself first. It's like the last, if you have time, you put yourself as a priority and it's the op, it has to be the opposite and it's not selfish,

you know? And I think that maybe because Twitch was so loving and he exuded such beautiful light, you know, and you know, he wasn't always happy, but for the most part, he wasn't, I never felt heavy energy from him ever. It just makes you wonder. And it makes you really, it makes me so sad though. I didn't have like, I were not, like I said, we weren't really close, but don't be, you know, you have no idea what people are going through. You just don't. And so when I get comments on my social media that I overshare, what I'm doing is really, it also helps other people because I could easily listen to that or those comments, the oversharing part. And I could easily convince

myself that I am oversharing and that nothing is kept for myself. But I know because I see it, that people, me talking about being molested, having shame, being open with my experiences, because by no means I'm not a professional therapist, right? Like I'm not, I'm not certified and I don't plan on being one, but I do have experience. And I wish there was somebody when I was younger going through this, I wish there was someone to look up to. We end the shows with a tip you can take straight to the bank. You've taught yourself so much about business and finance. What would you tell others that you wish you knew earlier?

Invest in yourself and just know that the best money is when you make money in your sleep. Money Rehab is a production of Money News Network. I'm your host, Nicole Lappin. Money Rehab's executive producer is Morgan Levoy. Our researcher is Emily Holmes. Do you need some money rehab? And let's be honest, we all do. So email us your money questions, moneyrehab at moneynewsnetwork.com to potentially have your questions answered on the show or even have a one-on-one intervention with

me. And follow us on Instagram at moneynews and TikTok at moneynewsnetwork for exclusive video content. And lastly, thank you. No, seriously, thank you. Thank you for listening and for investing in yourself, which is the most important investment you can make.