Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin - Confession$ of a Sugar Baby

Episode Date: September 17, 2021

Today on Money Rehab: a deep-dive into sugaring with Comedian Wendi Starling. If you’re curious about the truth behind sugaring, or just need a laugh, this episode is for you! Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Well, it doesn't. Charge for wasting our time. I will take a check. Like an old school check. You recognize her from anchoring on CNN, CNBC, and Bloomberg. The only financial expert you don't need a dictionary to understand. Nicole Lappin. There are parts of the money world that live behind closed doors.

Some are dark, like the black market and money laundering. Others are ethically more complex, but nonetheless illegal, like sex work. Today, we're delving into one corner of this world and talking about sugaring. My best definition is that sugaring is the act of being a sugar baby. But that's pretty much all I know about it. And that's in part because sugaring is tricky to understand because there are so many preconceived notions about it. And a lot of them conflict. People say it's empowering and people also say it's degrading. It's like Fifty Shades of Grey, but it's a legit side hustle. You can make millions,

but you can also go broke. Whatever you've heard, you're probably curious about sugaring yourself, so I want to set the record straight for you and get to the heart of it once and for all. Today, I'm talking to Wendy Starling, a comedian who has her own experience with sugaring. Wendy, welcome to Money Rehab. Oh, who has her own experience with sugaring. Wendy, welcome to Money Rehab. Oh, you say like, thank you or something. Okay, I thought you were going to cut it in. Okay, do it again. Do it again. Do it again. Try it again. Sorry. My brain is already like, try it again. I won't fuck up my line. Wendy, welcome to Money Rehab. Oh my God. Hi, Nicole. Thank you so much for having me. Can we start at the top level? Can you define what sugar dating is? So sugar dating is what I think is the most efficient form of dating, at least for me.

So you're dating one person and instead of any kind of promise of, hey, we might get married, this might turn into something. I might move you into my house. This might be a long-term thing where we sign a contract. And if we break up, you get half of my stuff. Instead of that, they just go, look, neither of us have time to BS each other. What would you like? What would be helpful to you? And so there's some kind of a transaction. So whether it's a credit card or whatever you need help with financially. So there's some kind of a transaction. So whether it's a credit card or whatever you need help with financially. So there's usually some kind of a financial transaction that goes along with that. And what is the rest of the terminology? So would you consider yourself, and forgive me,

I have no idea, a sugar baby? Like, do you have a sugar daddy? Is there a sugar mommy? So the sugar baby term, I'm not a big fan of because i am 40 years old so i uh i say cool lady uh smart person is what i call myself uh but yeah i guess the terminology people use is sugar baby and then a sugar daddy that kind of stuff is so creepy to me again because i'm like old you know so i say sugar babe and like i refer to my sugar daddy as my boyfriend because oh yeah it's essentially what he is he's my boyfriend but you have multiple boyfriends yeah why not i can't think of a reason why not that's for sure and so it's sugaring is it like a gerund that way yeah it's an interesting thing because the best part,

at least for me, of the relationships are that they are no strings attached. You get all the benefits and perks of what a lot of people traditionally think you get when you get married. You're like, you move in with someone, right? And I know this sounds weird and like heteronormative because in this day and age, women can work and we can make money. But if we're being honest with ourselves, most parents teach their daughters to not date some fucking loser. Oh, sorry. I don't know if I can curse. No, yeah. Okay, great. The best part about it is like, that you get to keep your autonomy, right? So what we're saying is with young girls, a lot of times we tell them, don't date some bum some artist some musician you meet someone with a good job who can take care of you and not only in western culture most

parts of the world there's like a dowry you got jewelry and a goat correct then if the guy wants to marry the girl you go to the father and you say hi may i marry your daughter which is essentially it's like that's none of your fucking business it be, does my daughter want to put up with you is what it should be. But we still have this thing kind of ingrained in us. And so all that stuff that would come with marriage, you also are giving up a lot of your autonomy as a woman because it's like, oh, cool. I can move in with you and have some financial security. Great. Oh, wait, I have to do your laundry. Oh, I have to pack your lunch. Wait, well, huh? How did this happen? And so in sugaring, you get all the perks and the financial comfort and security of your rich

boyfriend without having to give up any of your personal life. And so you can date. I mean, this is specific to each relationship. The ones that I am in, I very specifically say, I don't want to be monogamous or exclusive. So I leave myself open to have a few different people that I'm dating. That seems like a business. I just wanted to make sure that I was getting into this with the correct terminology. But you'll correct me if I fuck it up. So how did you get into it to begin with? Well, it's interesting because I was living in New York at the time. I was 34 years old and I'd been doing standup comedy for about six years. I just moved from LA to New York. My whole life, I've worked one full-time job and usually a part-time job or two part-time jobs. I'm a very

big hustler. I'm constantly just working. So I'm in New York. I just sold my car and everything. I moved there to pursue comedy and take it to the next level. I had a roommate leave unexpectedly, and I had to come up with $1,500 in like two weeks. And I was already working full-time, temping at, I believe, Calvin Klein. And even though that was a good paying job or like a well-paying job, New York is super expensive. So I started to panic. My friend, I was drunk outside of a show at like one o'clock in the morning and somebody brought up this website. So I signed up for it online on my phone, filled out a profile, Didn't really look at it for a couple of days. Serendipitously,

I got a standup gig like a few days later that paid me $1,800. So I was like, oh, great. And I didn't look at the website for another like three or four months until I went on a few bad Tinder dates. And these guys, it was like, we're going to some sit down pizza joint, or they just want to order food and oh, can we split the cost? And they're just trying to bang you and their shitty apartment and they have roommates. And I thought, you know what? I'm in Manhattan. I, let me check out this website. Cause I at least want to go out with a guy that can afford to take me to a nice restaurant. You know, like I want to dress up and go somewhere nice. So I went on the site, checked my messages. And the second guy that I met, uh, without giving

too much information, but he was one of the whistleblowers for a very big financial thing that happened. And I believe 2007 and he had like a four-story penthouse and super fucking rich. And he was just great. We went out for drinks. I had a show, so we didn't hook up. We went out for drinks. I had a show. So we didn't hook up. We went out for drinks. Good looking guy. I went to a show. He texts me like two hours later and says, I'm sending you an Uber. I want to see you right now. And so I went back to his place the next morning, swear to God, he has an espresso machine. And I was like, this is really nice. He goes, you want one? I have like two because that's rich people do stuff like that. Like when

they're that rich, they're just like, yeah, just I'll get 10 of these. And then I just give them away for presents. So I got an espresso machine. I got his American Express card on my Uber account and an Equinox membership to like all clubs. He was like, what would enhance your life? So that's another example. It wasn't a cash thing, but he's like, what would make your life better? And I said, I really love a gym membership. He goes, great, here's my credit card. Go get a gym membership. And then Ubers were helpful to just to go from my day job to shows and run around and Uber Eats. Dude, I know no bullshit. I spent an average of like four thousand dollars a month on his Amex card on Ubers and Uber Eats. I would go to

shows and we're all poor comedians. So I'd be like, guys want sushi? And we'd just get a bunch of sushi delivered. It was awesome. And did you set that up with him after your first date or do you do it through the site? Like which sites do this? Do they streamline the process or do you kind of figure it out as you go? Well, here's what's tricky. So with the sites, because there's such a crackdown on any type of sex work and it's so being a sugar baby is not not sex work. I mean, it's under the umbrella now. And I had on my podcast, The Helpful Host Show, I had two lawyers on and we were talking about because sex work like prostitution, it's a speaking crime. So if in text messages or over email, you're saying like, hey, come over. I want to have sex with you. And

you go, great. That'll be X amount of dollars that you could be like, oh, this is illegal. You can't do that. And even if you go on like escort services that are specifically escort services, there's a big disclaimer on the front that says, Hey, heads up. If case, any cops are looking here, these people are just paying for company. They're just paying for someone to have dinner with them. And anything else that happens is between two adults. So on the website, the one that I use, um, it's called seeking was seeking arrangements and OSHA seeking. They very specifically, you can't communicate about that kind of stuff through the app. They'll shut it down. So a lot of times you want to discuss

that in person or over text. And so that's the way to do it. But like with this guy, it was just the next morning I woke up because I didn't know what to do. You know, I'm not some like hardened, like, like, like street hooker where I was like, all right, I'll come over, but I need a coffee maker and 20 bucks for a cab. You know, it wasn't like, so he was just like, what would make your life better? And I was like, um, how about a gym membership? He's like, great. Here's my credit card. He's like, that was super easy. Hold onto your wallets, boys and girls and girls money rehab will be right back now for some more money rehab so you said you consider your sugar daddies your boyfriends

would you not sugar with anyone who you wouldn't want to be romantic with i personally would not um and that's i think the thing that gets tricky is people think in their mind, and especially now sugaring is like very, like kind of like a hot topic. Right. Um, and I think a lot of people, especially younger girls think, oh, this is an easy way to make money. And I would, to that, I would say, and I know men are going to be like, shut up. We want these 23 year olds on there.

I will say if there are younger women listening, it's not easy money. It is. I mean, it's emotionally taxing and it can mess with your perception of how relationships work and intimacy. And so I will I get a lot of emails from younger women who are like, oh, this guy's gross and he's whatever. And I'm like, don't do anything out of desperation and not even sugar dating, but anything. And I think everyone knows this, even looking for a job, just, you know, if you go in for some job and they're like, yeah, we'll pay you $8 an hour. And the manager sexually harassing you, it's like wait and hold out and find something

that you like where you feel good about it. And that's in relationships and anything when you're doing anything out of desperation, it's not great. And so I know there are some people that might have a sugar daddy to whom they're like not very attracted and they feel kind of grossed out about it. I would highly recommend against it and just wait because that also leads to another set of problems. If you're going out with someone because you feel like you have to for your survival, that might lead to drugs, alcohol, overeating, over shopping, because you feel bad after the interaction. You don't feel good. And I mean, I fell into that when I was very first on the site, just because you all of a sudden have so much extra money that you never had.

And you just got to be aware of that. So you don't fall into these traps where you're spending all the money that you're getting, because then it's the cycle of, oh, crap, I got to see that gross monster again. But there are some people that just talk to the gross monsters, right? They don't need to sleep with them. Is that part, can that be an arrangement? Just sort of like platonic company or like going as a date to a function or something like that and not nookie? It can.

It can. like that and not nookie it can it can and i see a lot of stuff on tiktok and um where it's people just think like i make five thousand a month and all i do is have dinner and it's like no you don't i'm gonna say yeah no you don't do both of those so it's like that's kind of a fallacy and i mean there might be some people that that's all they want, but I have not found that to be the case. And a lot of there are a lot of scams right now with sugaring and a lot of messages like there are these people that are hitting people up on Instagram. Like if I post anything on social media that says anything with sugar daddy or sugar, whatever, I get comments from like bots and people that are like, oh, I'm looking for a sugar baby. You get an allowance of a thousand dollars a week. That's such a scam because they'll message you and they'll say things like, Oh, I don't even want to meet. I just need someone I can trust and talk to. And I just want to, you know,

like FaceTime with you and have someone to text throughout the day. That's a scam because that, but people get excited because they're like, Oh, this is great. I don't have to interact with this person. That's almost always a scam if someone offers that. Where does the scam come in? Well, the scam comes in where they say, hey, so look, the last sugar baby that I had really she screwed me over. So I'm not just going to send you money on cash app. What I will do is send you a cashier's check. And so I'm going to need your bank information just so I can make sure that gets to you. Yeah. Or they do the same. It's similar to like, you know, the lottery scams that are all over the place where they're like, hey, you won this thing.

And in order to collect a gazillion dollars, you only have to send me five thousand dollars. Similar. I get a lot of messages from chicks where they're like, is there a thing where you get like you have to pay a service fee? And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no. Yeah. So a lot of that, like, just be my dinner date. It's like, oh, that's not super realistic. I see. Okay. So you go into this thinking that you are going to have some sort of sexual romantic connection as part of this arrangement? Yes, ideally. Now for me, I love, that's my favorite part. My favorite part, that's the thing, I always joke, but it's like kind of true. I'm like, I'm not getting paid for sex. I'm getting paid to pretend I care about your

golf score. Like that's what the money's for. It's for me to go like, yeah, yeah, let's hang out at dinner. This is so fucking boring. Or, you know, pretend to be like, yeah, yeah, Trump is still the real president. Like that kind of stuff is what you're being paid for. So I like that. Those are my favorites. Hold on to your wallets, boys and girls. Money rehab will be right back. Now for some more money rehab and the contract in the beginning with the amount.

Can you tell me roughly what it is per meeting? Yeah, it's so we've been together. And here's the other thing. I will say this. In my experience, for people listening, anyone who's like giving you a lot of money up front, that's almost always going to be something that won't last. I have found that to be the case. The people might like this guy for it's like, it's like 300. And at first I was like, okay, but it's lasted for four and a half years. And again, I have a job. And so I'm like, just looking essentially it's covering so that I don't need to get a day job and I can do stand up and do a podcast and, and, you know, do TikToks and all that kind of stuff. So I can still work on all my other things, but he's just like making it so that

I don't also have to get up and go work 40 hours a week, uh, at a coffee shop or whatever, you know, because a job, especially if you're working in a creative field you would need a job like a coffee shop something with flexibility um and how do you get that money uh in an envelope hidden somewhere in the apartment yeah you don't um that's you just it just kind of like just shows up somewhere so not electronically there's no venmo or wire no some people will do venmo or cash app that's like i mean because that just makes it so much easier so a lot of people do that but it's like we old school no um no trail just kind of like you okay bye and then it's like it's like a little easter egg hunt in your apartment so when did you catch feelings and were you hoping not to catch feelings

um i actually like the feelings part like i love it sounds so cheesy girl i love love uh but i do me too i and i like being in love and i like all the relationship stuff i love the cuddling and what i like about it specifically with sugaring is the no string i always you know the the joke i don't have to joke or like the reality situation the no strings attached thing this like nsa what cuts the strings is the money. And it's not that I become some hardened person and we don't like each other. Um, I'm almost going to cry. One of the guys that I've been seeing here is someone else that I like accidentally fell in love with. And like, they both know about each other, which is they're like, that's great. Whatever. You know, it's like a nice thing,

but he like, as a going away thing, cause I'm moving to Austin. He, one of the but he like as a going away thing because i'm moving to austin he wanted the he like it's very sweet it's very like rich white man stuff he made got these like quotes printed for me and one's about like perseverance i think it's like a woodrow wilson quote or something so it's very like white man dad like quotes um but one is f scott fitgerald. And it's just a very sweet quote about like they brisk, they briskly fell into an intimacy from which they never recovered. Um, and so even though I'm crying, but like, I like that turn of a relationship after 30 years where you go like, Oh, I'm stuck here looking at you again. And I know that for some people, they like that. And I can see the upside to that. You know, where you just like we grow and die together and you're

with someone you have like a partner that is something that like to me right now is just not something that i want but i get kind of um the hit the dopamine hit of always being in like a new relationship or it feels like high school kind of infatuation all the time because it's someone that you don't see very often and um so i like that i even like the crying because it's like even now like i'm like being. And so I like that. I even like the crying because it's like even now, like being sad about leaving. But then also I'm excited to go and be closer to the guy that I, you know, have been with for four and a half years. With the arrangement that you've had with these guys, once you figure out

the price per meeting rate, what other things are you determining from the get go? rate what other things are you determining from the get-go um a lot of times i'll ask questions which is like such a weird but the only other thing that will be set up besides the financial stuff a lot of times and i do this is communication that to me is a more important boundary than um how much money we're getting i make it very clear i'm not texting you every day i here's what i what I want. I want you to let me know, Hey, when do you want to hang out? Great. Cause other than that, I put my phone in airplane mode. Well, you know, because with you're like, not only are you doing a podcast, but you write books, I'm working on two books. And, and like, when you're trying to think of ideas and joke writing and stuff like that, it's like you, your brain. Yeah. Don't send me a dick pic during that. Yeah. I don't not inspiring. Right. I don't want to dick pic. I don't want to, how are you pick? It's like your brain. Yeah, don't send me a dick pic during that. Yeah, I don't. Not inspiring.

Right, I don't want a dick pic. I don't want a how are you pic. It's like, I don't, don't send me anything. I need all my brain focused on what I'm doing. And so that's something that I like to set up, which is like, don't blow up my phone. I will break this off immediately. I imagine like a Fifty Shades contract contract situation but it's not as formal as that

no it's not can it be somewhat it could be but i again would highly recommend against that because that seems unless you're into unless you're into the being super super submissive in which case i don't know i would recommend maybe just go get married, you know, because it's like the same thing. And it's a contract, a marriage contract is legally upheld, right? A sub-dom thing. You wouldn't walk in like, I get half his stuff, why?

We were never married, but I had this butt plug in for 10 years. 10 years. That's it for something. I've been walking with this Bluetooth butt plug. I have my bowels vibrating while I'm on a pretend Zoom call for this asshole. What kind of advice would you give people

who are interested in sugaring, sugar dating, on how to stay safe? Always tell someone where you're going. Like a friend. Yep, tell a friend. I actually started on my, on my patron.

I started like a, a chat, a discord. Cause I get so many messages. So I'm like that way we have a loop. So we all just can kind of tell each other. Cause a lot of people are like, I don't want to tell my friends and family,

even though truly it's just regular dating. I can't stress this enough. It's not shady. And if it feels icky or shady, just like anything else in life, don't go, don't do it. Get a photo beforehand. A lot

of these sugar dating sites, they do a lot better vetting. The companies vet a lot better than they do on traditional dating sites. Oh, so it has to be a real photo? Like how do they cross track a license or something? Yeah. So the men that are on those, they have to pay a monthly fee. They pay to get on there and they get like background checks and this, and they're really good about, I've had one guy that was abusive and I messaged his site and they were reported and he was off. So, um, they're actually better about that than Tinder and plenty of fish and whatever. Uh, if plenty of fish is even still around, I just watched a documentary, I think from like 2007 and people were getting murdered off that site in England. So beware English people

in the past. But yeah, get a photo and make sure your friends know where you're going. Again, hey, if you're a woman, you're used to doing this already. We already have to be like, hey, I'm going to meet this guy that I met on like Christian Mingle dot com, but he might be a killer. I don't know. Anyway, here's this picture. This is where we're going. Got it. Yeah. Yeah. So same thing. Same. Just just again, as if you met them at church, use that kind of safety precaution. Got it. Tell someone where you're going and do a call check in afterwards. For today's tip, you can take straight to the bank. We could all stand to be better listeners.

When I came into my conversation with Wendy, I already had the idea of what sugaring was. I'm not saying have an open mind, be a sugar baby, go get yourself your own gym membership. Although if you do, rock on, your choice. But I am saying we should all be open-minded to people who make that decision for themselves. And I'm not going to assume that we know their life or their story. It's like my ex-boyfriend used to say to his daughter, we have one mouth and two ears so that we can listen more than we speak. Money Rehab is a production of iHeartRadio. I'm your host, Nicole Lappin.

Our producers are Morgan Lavoie and Mike Coscarelli. Executive producers are Nikki Etor and Will Pearson. Our mascots are Penny and Mimsy. Huge thanks to OG Money Rehab team Michelle Lanz for her development work, Catherine Law for her production and writing magic, and Brandon Dickert for his editing, engineering, and sound design. And as always, thanks to you for finally investing in yourself so that you can get it together and get it all.