Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin - Don't Let Money Ruin Your Relationship— Instead Follow These Tips from Jason Tartick

Episode Date: November 12, 2024

Money can’t buy you love… but it sure can cost you a relationship, because financial conflict is a huge source of tension for many couples. Today, Nicole is joined by entrepreneur and author Jason Tartick about how to not let money ruin a relationship. Plus, Jason talks about his experience being scammed, which companies he’s bullish and bearish on, and what Elon Musk is like at a party.  Find Jason's latest book, Talk Money To Me: The 8 Essential Financial Questions to Discuss With Your Partner, here: https://www.jasontartick.com/talk-money-to-me Originally aired 5.30.24

One of the most stressful periods of my life was when I was in credit card debt. I got to a point where I just knew that I had to get it under control for my financial future and also for my mental health. We've all hit a point where we've realized it was time to make some serious money moves. So take control of your finances by using a Chime checking account with features like no maintenance fees, fee-free overdraft up to $200, or getting paid up to two days early with direct deposit. Learn more at chime.com slash MNN.

When you check out Chime, you'll see that you can overdraft up to $200 with no fees. If you're an OG listener, you know about my infamous $35 overdraft fee that I got from buying a $7 latte and how I am still very fired up about it. If I had Chime back then, that wouldn't even be a story. Make your fall finances a little greener by working toward your financial goals with Chime. Open your account in just two minutes at Chime.com slash MNN. That's Chime.com slash MNN. Chime. Feels like progress.

Banking services and debit card provided by the BankCorp Bank NA or Stride Bank NA. Members FDIC. SpotMe eligibility requirements and overdraft limits apply. Boosts are available to eligible Chime members enrolled in SpotMe and are subject to monthly limits. Terms and conditions apply. Go to chime.com slash disclosures for details.

I love hosting on Airbnb. It's a great way to bring in some extra cash, but I totally get it that it might sound overwhelming to start or even too complicated. If say you wanna put your summer home in Maine on Airbnb, but you live full time in San Francisco and you can't go to Maine every time you need to change sheets for your guests or something like that.

If thoughts like these have been holding you back, I have great news for you. Airbnb has launched a co-host network, which is a network of high quality local co-hosts with Airbnb experience that can take care of your home and your guests local co-hosts with Airbnb experience that can take care of your home and your guests. Co-hosts can do what you don't have time for like managing your reservations, messaging your guests, giving support at the property, or even create your listing for you. I always want to line up a reservation for my house

when I'm traveling for work, but sometimes I just don't get around to it because getting ready to travel always feels like a scramble so I don't end up making time to make my house look guest friendly. I guess that's the best way to put it. But I'm matching with a co-host so I can still make that extra cash while also making it easy on myself. Find a co-host at airbnb.com slash host. I'm Nicole Lapin, the only financial expert you don't need a dictionary to understand. It's time for some money rehab. Money can't buy you love, but it sure can cost you a relationship because financial conflict is a huge source of tension for so many couples. Today I'm talking to Jason Tardick, entrepreneur, host of a top business and finance pod, Trading

Secrets, and yes, he was on The Bachelor, but also he worked in banking for 10 years so he really knows his financial stuff. We talk about money and relationships because he is knee deep in this topic while writing his latest book, Talk Money to Me. We talk about how not to let money ruin a relationship, but we also go way deeper. We talk about Jason's experience with being scammed, which companies he's bullish and bearish on, and what Elon Musk is like at a party. Here's Jason.

I wanna jump into the intersection of love and money, one of my favorite topics. In your latest book, you outline eight questions that people need to ask their partners. I could not agree with you more. These questions are always hard, they're always awkward, they're always weird, but you can make them fun and sexy because you're really talking about your hopes and your dreams

and your goals and your life together. So how do you start those conversations with couples? Yeah, I mean, anytime I think you enter the discussion of money and love, it becomes like, oh, like, where do I even begin, right? But I think in any type of conversation regarding love, there's so many hard things you have to step into. And we know that like all at the end of the day, conflict is, is growth trying to happen.

And we know that there is so much conflict when it connects love and money. And the statistics out there are wildly alarming about what happens when we don't discuss money in our relationships. And so knowing those statistics, like 50% of couples don't feel comfortable even having conversations around money or those that do have conversations, three-corizones say that it creates material tension in the relationship, that gives us an indicator that we really need to step into it at some capacity. And so what I always say is like, when we think about money, it's just like we initially are like, what are you making?

What's your net worth? What's your debt? And it's like, whoa, slow down. Yeah, like a police interrogation, the flashlight in your eye. And it's like, well, we can have fun. Like think about, you know, when you go out to drinks with your friends or a bite to eat,

like the fun conversations you have about whatever it is. Maybe it's gossip, maybe it's current news or what's happening. Like you could do that with money. And the classic example I give someone is like, if you earn or win a certain dollar amount, you get paid that amount today, like 50,000 or 500,000 or a hundred thousand,

you've got to spend every dollar. How exactly are you spending it? And just in that answer, I can learn how you prioritize money, what your relationship is with money, et cetera. So I say introduce fun ways to these conversations because it's hard to step in to the ones that aren't so fun, but we know we have to. We know we have to. What if somebody has like a financial skeleton in their closet? As you

know with the stats, financial infidelity is real, which just means like infidelity around money. So cheating on somebody, uh, infidelity physically can happen, emotionally can happen, it can happen financially. So what are some ways, let's say you're the one with the financial skeleton, what are some easy ways to make that confession a little bit more comfortable? Well, first and foremost, I think that everybody, everybody has some form of a financial skeleton in their closet. At some capacity, there's some type of skeleton that needs to be worked on. Literally from billionaires down, we all have something.

So we're all there together. But the biggest thing is identifying them. I think, we live in a system where we don't experience massive pain that it causes us to actually have to fix things immediately. Another example I was given is like whether you have a cavity or you have a super big pain point, you have to immediately fix it. And with finance, like it's not set up, it's a slow drip, it's a slow burn. And some people say like, well, what are financial red flags that, you know, you look for

in relationships? I'm like, if you have financial red flags, that's great. Let me just see them because we know statistically, as you said, that's 43% of married and cohabitating couples have one person that are committing, at least one person that's committing financial infidelity. So let's see the red flags. Let's understand them. Let's not blame, shame or weaponize. Let's work on ways to improve them because within personal finance, with quick, quick quick solutions you can see quick results. You know what we say here at Money Rehab? The only financial problem you can't fix is the one you don't admit you have. There you go. That's the way to solve that question right there. So are there any financial deal breakers in your opinion? I think there was this big New York Times

article where this woman who got out of debt was dating this guy and he had a boatload of debt that she found out about it. And she was like, yo, this is a breaker. I'm not here for this. What do you think? I mean, the problem with that is like, especially someone who's led like over $100 million in the banking system is like, debt's not terrible.

And in fact, every, almost every large company that does revenue of over $10 million in greater needs debt to grow like that can be an amazing tool to build wealth. But it's like what kind of debt does that person have? The big question is why? And with those behaviors, have they been fixed? Are they going to continue to repeat? The big thing I hate about hearing headlines like that is we hear one thing and we have been trained in the finance world to immediately assume the negative connotation with it. We hear bad credit and assume all this negativity. There are a lot

of people that are worth multi, multi, multi-million dollars and some that have terrible debt or terrible credit score. It's okay to have certain issues. Let's understand them. Let's identify them and see if those patterns are going to repeat or can be fixed. That's it. That's it. In my book, there was an example we had of someone who kind of had a situation that was wildly the example of financial infidelity, but she's making less than her husband. They got married pretty quickly. He said that he'll pay half the mortgage via Venmoorzell. And she had belief in that because she did see that he made more. So her name's on the mortgage. They put both of their names on

the deed. And then the day they closed, the IRS owned the entirety of her home because he had all these back taxes that were due. And so I think if we don't have these conversations, if we don't step into them, we're not doing our due diligence. And so I think if we don't have these conversations, if we don't step into them, we're not doing our due diligence. And guess what? She went through a divorce. She was carrying his debt. She ended up getting happily remarried to a really supportive guy. They together paid off his debt, the prior husbands, and now live a happy life. So that's the thing with finance. It can be fixed once identified and we need to get rid of judging. We had somebody on the show was in a different situation, but he was broken up with because he wasn't making as much as his girlfriend at the time. And she wanted him to be making more.

This feels like a uniquely male problem in hetero relationships. I think what advice would you give men who are feeling insecure secure or like financially insecure. Man, I would say go to therapy and figure out what the real issue is. Right. And we're seeing right, the wage, the wage gap is tightening. And in my opinion, it's 100% going to flip. And this concept is something that needs to be broken into, that needs to be shattered because it is completely backwards and asinine. Totally, totally agree. There's always something that's financially trauma related that's leading

to these issues. So getting to the core of that is, is super, super important. I want to quickly double click on something you said, because our listeners might be wondering debt is good potentially. And we've talked about this on the show, but just to be clear, like what kind of debt are you talking about? You're not talking about a boatload of credit card debt, there's good debt, there's bad debt. You can use debt to create more wealth in some capacities, but also it could be a red flag.

Yeah, correct, correct. I think the short answer is, is that like good debt is any type of debt instrument that is used to hopefully support an appreciating asset of some nature, right? We know historically real estate in United States appreciates, right? So a mortgage is collateralized by the home.

And of course it's more of a generalized statement, but in general homes in United States as a macro perspective appreciate. When we look at credit card debt, credit card debt is considered a bad form of debt because you are likely acquiring assets that depreciate or have no value, which is why I'm sure all your listeners know

when you tie the risk associated with any form of debt with an interest rate, you know credit card debt's gonna be the highest interest rate because the bank is taking on so much more inherent risk because there is no collateral for that debt that's being deployed. And so when I talk about good debt

when it comes to businesses, I'm talking about companies that are buying equipment to continue to grow. I'm talking about companies that are buying real estate to grow, companies that are supporting their employees through a line of credit to grow, companies that are using debt to acquire other companies.

So there's a lot of forms in which you can use debt as a strategy to acquire appreciating assets. And that is night and day from assets that are bought through, through dollars that are spent on experiences or material items that depreciate in value. Stock's not stuff. I like it. Back to, back to love and money.

What do you think couples should do with their bank accounts? Do you think yours, mine and ours, something joint, a secret account? No secret accounts. I think the biggest thing in finance, you need full visibility to everything you have and to everything your partner has, especially if you are married or cohabitating. Like 100% pure visibility into everything and where it goes. When you have visibility, it absolutely eliminates all gray area.

When I think about joint accounts and separate accounts, at the end of the day, there is no cookie cutter solution for anything finance. It has to be customized. That's why I like some of these conversations could take weeks, months, even years to figure out after like material, material due diligence based on everyone's

circumstances and what their overall profile looks like. That being said, I think a good solution, I'll give you one that I recommend in my book, it talked money to me. If you have a 15 to 20% income within one another, I think putting a joint account and having your own individual accounts are good, creating an amount that you can both contribute to your individual account and then operating as individual entities as well. But at the end of the day, like net worth is your baseline

for cash inflows and outflows. And even to go back to that earnings conversation, the amount of people I know that have less earnings than their partner, but have more wealth is significant. Earnings is just one small part of the equation to building your overall net worth. And so that's why another reason

to just immediately judge it is it's just it all, there's nothing intuitive about it. And you know, all of these financial conversations get more complicated. They become like the advanced financial discussions when you have kids, of course, and then you start talking about wills and advanced directives and all of those other conversations.

So when you start having kids, it's a whole new cluster of financial questions. Former bachelor Nick Vile and his wife, I have in my notes, I have a baby that's almost four months old. What advice would you give them about setting their kid up for financial success? I think that Nick's kid is going to be set up quite up for financial success? I think that Nick's kid is gonna be set up quite well for financial success. Nick has had a ton of success. So any advice I'd give to anyone that has a newborn

is before that newborn even comes to this beautiful earth, have a 529 set up, all the birthdays, all the religious celebrations, all the graduations and everything in between, you know, friends can contribute to a 529, but you have to have that account set up and it is the best way to contribute to a child's future. And as we know, time, I'm sure all your listeners are well aware of the impact of time on growth and making money on your money. And so making sure that you are putting money in a place where you have all your tax incentivization

set up with time moving in your child's direction is huge. And so make sure you're consulting with the CPA, make sure you're working with an investment specialist or doing your own due diligence before you decide the investment selections in these 529 plans or wherever it is that you are saving for your child's future. But it's like anything just like retirement, the earlier you start, the better you'll be off. Yes, it's time in the market, not time being the market. Correct. Exactly. Nailed it. All right. And a lot of reality people,

I've never seen a bachelor or a Real Housewife show, but I know I'm the only one in the history of the world, but a lot of Real Housewives cast members have come on the show and talk about financial dysmorphia or money dysmorphia, and this has been getting a lot of play lately. What would you give as advice to reality alums who are dealing with this type of thing?

Yeah, I mean, this is very prevalent with Gen Z's too, right? We're seeing right now that the credit card debt that is being amassed by Gen Z's is higher than any generation before. Obviously, inflation playing an impact on that. And I think that the problem is like, everyone knows it. Like you're trying to keep up with the Jones, you're trying to keep up with Instagram, trying to keep up with the Kardashians, everything. And the only person at the end of the day that you're impacting is yourself. And it's weird that finance and therapy actually connect in a lot of ways. And one thing I tell people to consider is behavioral based budgeting. So that's the idea of going to look at your last three credit card statements and just pay attention to outlying

purchases. You don't have to do Excel file. There's a calculator work, just literally scan it going to look at your last three credit card statements and just pay attention to outline purchases. You don't have to do Excel file, there's a calculator work, just literally scan it and just ask yourself why. What was the purpose of that purchase? Are you a purple people pleaser? Are you sitting at dinners feeling like you have to pick it up or you have to buy a drink? Are you someone that's trying to impress others through your goods or what you're wearing or where you're going and how you're going and what you're doing. And I think through that, you can understand behaviors about yourself.

And the only way that you'll be able to cure those things are by working on yourself. And so, you know, one example I always give is like, I was 21, I'm going through my credit card statements and I just see bar tabs that are exorbitant. And I'm like, listen, I like to have a good time, but there's no way I could drink that much. Well, started to do some therapy within

and looking at my behaviors, I was struggling with confidence, I was struggling with identity. I was in a city I didn't know many people, and where was that actually impacting me? My wallet and my credit card bill, I'd throw my credit card down, open a tab and say drinks on me.

And so that was actually a me issue. And I think through our spending, through Gen Zs, through Tri-Reality Stars trying to keep up with other reality stars, it's actually behavioral issues with us that is showing up in our spending. And we can learn a lot about ourselves based on how we're executing transactions with our money. And once we work on those issues,

you'll see a huge impact in return on our wallets. I agree. I mean, I think you probably would suggest actual therapy could be helpful, but what you're saying is do your own sort of DIY therapy by asking yourself like, why? What was the purpose here? Precisely, exactly.

Hold onto your wallets. Money rehab will be right back. One of the most stressful periods of my life was when I was in credit card debt. I got to a point where I just knew that I had to get it under control for my financial future and also for my mental health. We've all hit a point where we've realized it was time to make some serious money moves. So take control of your finances by using a time checking account with features like no maintenance fees, fee free overdraft up to $200, or getting paid up to two days early

with direct deposit. Learn more at Chime.com slash MNN. When you check out Chime, you'll see that you can overdraft up to $200 with no fees. If you're an OG listener, you know about my infamous $35 overdraft fee that I got from buying a $7 latte and how I am still very fired up about it. If I had Chime back then, that wouldn't even be a story. Make your fall finances a little greener by working toward your financial goals with Chime. Open your account in just 2 minutes at Chime.com slash MNN. That's Chime.com slash MNN. Chime.

Feels like progress. Banking services and debit card provided by the BankCorp Bank NA or Stride Bank NA. Members I love hosting on Airbnb. It's a great way to bring in some extra cash. But I totally get it that it might sound overwhelming to start, or even too complicated if, say, you want to put your summer home in Maine on Airbnb but you live full-time in San Francisco and you can't go to Maine every time you need to change sheets for your guests or something like that. If thoughts like these have been holding you back, I have great news for you. Airbnb has launched a Co-host

Network, which is a network of high-quality local co-hosts with Airbnb experience that can take care of your home and your guests. Co-hosts can do what you don't have time for, like managing your reservations, messaging your guests, giving support at the property, or even create your listing for you. I always want to line up a reservation for my house when I'm traveling for work, but sometimes I just don't get around to it because getting ready to travel always feels like a scramble so I don't end up making time to make my house look guest-friendly. I guess that's the best way to put it. But I'm matching with a co-host so I can still make that extra cash while also

making it easy on myself. Find a co-host at airbnb.com slash host. And now for some more money rehab. All right. We are both finance nerds. I would love to play some financial games with you if you're down. Let's play some financial games. Let's go. All right. I want to do a round of financial never have I ever.

Let's hear it. All right. Split the check on a first date. Never done it. You? No. Never done it. You? No. Been in debt. Been in debt. Never been in debt.

Fought with a significant other about money. Oh yeah. Maxed out a credit card. I have maxed out a credit card. So I paid for my MBA. You might need a little other hand. Yeah. I did a little thing where I had a 0% interest rate credit card for 21 months, but I was working full time. So I put my tuition for my MBA on my credit card, knowing that

the cash inflow for my job was coming, but I didn't have to have interest on my debt, like with student loans, but I did max out my credit card for that. How did it pass? Do you know your credit score, SideNet? I think it's like 815 or something like that. I think mine is probably lower than that. I think the last time I checked it was like 780. Okay. But again- That's incredible.

That's incredible. Still, fuck. You've beaten this down over and over, but the impact of credit is so significant on your cash outflows and the entirety of your life, what capital costs you. For sure. But also don't get obsessed with having a perfect one because I- Correct. Yeah.

You don't need a perfect one. You just need a good one. You'll get the same benefits as everyone in the range of good. For sure. I've been fired from a job. Yep. Signed a prenup. Nope.

I encourage it though. Agreed. And I think women should suggest it. There's a stigma that like a guy's gonna make me do it. No, like my prenup's ready to go. Absolutely. Discuss it. First of all, it forces you to step into it. Second of all, your state already has a prenup for you.

It's the laws that create mine. Customize it. And another one for your audience already has a pre-nump for you. It's the laws they create, customize it. And another one for your audience, which I'm assuming based on like this discussion is a very female based, post-numps are huge, right? Like if you are a caretaker after you're married for your family and you are putting your career on hold and your earnings and everything else that could come

with the power of if you were working, but you are providing which creates such massive value for your family entity as it is a post up can really help protect you in those circumstances too. Okay I'm done. I love it. Never apologize for a financial rant here. Uh gambled in Vegas. Oh yeah. Fallen for a scam. Oh yeah. Disputed a charge on a credit card. Disputed a charge on a credit card. Oh, 100%. This is one of my favorite things too.

Had buyer's remorse on a big purchase. Oh yeah. Bought a house. No. Negotiated a raise. Oh yeah. Invested in a company. Oh yeah. Invested in a company that went bankrupt. Oh yeah.

Written a Wall Street Journal bestseller. Woo! Yay! We won the book control, I don't know, won lots of books. Writing a book sucks, I mean like I love it, it's there forever, I love the impact, but it's brutal, huh? I'm on my fifth one. God, oh, how flesh. And you take book there forever, I love the impact, but it's brutal, huh? I'm on my fifth one.

God, ugh. I need to take book birth control, I know. Yeah. All right, next game. I wanna throw some bizarre headlines your way in the intersection of love and money and get your take. Okay, let's do it. A man went viral after asking his date for a refund

after their unsuccessful first meetup. He paid for her drinks on their first date and a few days later he asked her to go on a second date and she declined. So in response, he asked her if she could Venmo him back for their drinks. Was it fair for him to do that? No, it's just ridiculous, right?

Like financial transparency is not etiquette. Like you can't go, you know go return something that is an experience. It's just ridiculous. That's, I mean, I hear stories like that and I'm just shaking my head. So no, I don't stand for that. And I think it's absolutely ridiculous. And I don't think, I think it's so important to know

that people will see headlines like this and have these conversations because they make for good conversation. But this is not what we're talking about when we're saying you need to talk money with the people that you love and feel comfortable about it, right? This is a guy who is a loose cannon and I think it's a good thing that there wasn't another date. Agreed.

A recent study shows that almost two and three Americans believe that spending more on a date will lead to a successful relationship. Should people be thinking about dates as an investment? I don't think it's about the dollar spent on a date. I think it is about the time and thoughtfulness, intention that's applied to it. And I do see what people would say

that if I'm deploying time and resources and effort, I wanna think about it as like, I want it to go well. I want them to know that I'm putting something into this so that I see a personal return and happiness. But I don't think that has to do with dollars deployed because I think you could do a lot of creative, intentional, thoughtful dates that could actually go a lot further than just money deployed.

So I do disagree with that. I'm sure you've seen a new dating app score requires users to have a credit score of 675 or above to join. Do you like the idea of exclusion, right? Because I think you're now excluding people that have a credit score less than, which is absolutely ridiculous. I do like the idea that an app like that is probably creating some sort of transparency, right? It's allowing people to start thinking about, you know, what is a credit score and how does that apply to dating and let's be open about it. So I think that's good.

But the idea of excluding people that have a yellow or red score, I think is a little silly, especially when you look at the full picture of finance and understand that, like you said, credit score is a piece of the puzzle, but it's not the largest piece, the most important. It's just a piece, that's all. And it's changeable.

And it's changeable. Like in 90 days, your credit score can go from a red score to a green score. It's so changeable. What about putting your credit score? Because score, I think you have to have a certain credit score to join. But there was this viral woman who

put her credit score as one of her, I think, hinge pictures and got all of these different responses. What do you think about having credit scores on dating apps or using that as a filter? We have more arbitrary filters than credit score. I don't know. I don't think it should be means as a,

what are dating apps anyway? You're literally just swiping away to figure out if you want to go on a date. Like I don't think that's that's like a pertinent thing to decide if you're going to go have a cup of coffee. Right. I think before you get married, cohabitate and continue to move along your relationship. That's super important. But just like putting it in your profile. I don't know. That's weird. Do you see there's a new club now in New York City that is opening and to get into the club. So it's a nightclub, right? We're not talking about a country club or anything. It's a nightclub. And to get into the club, you have to show a bank account statement with at least $50,000 in cash.

That's so stupid though, because smart money doesn't have 50 grand in their checking account. Right. It's not a reflection of your entire wealth. There's a million reasons why it's just stupid. So I think I'm a huge proponent of financial transparency. I'm a huge proponent of getting comfortable with money conversations for education, insight, clarity, all the things. But there are so many toxic toxic means of financial transparency, transparency

that just don't at all connect to anything productive. That is certainly one of them. A Michigan woman sued a man for $10,000 after he stood her up on a date citing extreme emotional distress. Who should win the lawsuit? Oh my god, this is so stupid. I don't know what connected to that lawsuit. Obviously, I don't have enough information, but just hearing it, it sounds absolutely ridiculous. Have you ever been on such a bad date that you wanted to file a lawsuit? Never, never.

I've definitely been on my fair share of bad dates, but then I file a lawsuit for distress. I mean, again, I don't know the situation. Like, you know, you got to give context, but assuming it was just a bad date that wasn't great, I don't know what the means of that lawsuit would be, nor my attorney, but damn. All right, I'm gonna throw out some stocks and I would love if you tell me if you're bullish

or bearish on the company for 2024. Cool? Okay. Meta. Love it. It's trading below. It's 52 week. I own Meta. Big fan. Reddit. Not a fan of Reddit. I think they're like from what I remember from their stock last time. Well, first of all, they're all mean to me on Reddit. Second of all, second of all. That's reason enough to be bearish. Second of all, I think the ROI on that stock is pretty poor last time I looked into it. Had a rough IPO.

Alphabet. Investor bullish. AI, all the good stuff. Yeah, I mean, their position, their balance sheet's healthy. They've always been a market leader. They'll continue to be. I don't think you're going to get burned with Google. If they're not at the forefront of AI, like NVIDIA is,

they will be eventually. Or they'll just buy a company that will be. I think they're a good place to be. NVIDIA. It's scary how much the entire world economy is banking on the resource and the information that we get from this stock. But obviously, they're one of the biggest players.

They're driving the market. All indices are at all time highs. As a major contributor is NVIDIA. And the big thing for people that don't know back home is this is a good indicator of where AI is Nvidia. And the big thing for people that don't know back home is like, this is a good indicator of where AI is going and all indications showcase that AI is here to stay for the foreseeable future. And it's advancing in ways that if you don't advance with it, you will be behind. So just even like a small thing you could do today, because that might sound overwhelming, is like, just go download a chat GPT or something of the sort. I don't know, next email, just like copy and paste your email and just say fix grammar and it will do it for you. And now you're starting to embrace AI because the world's embracing it. Countries are embracing it at different speeds and companies

are embracing it. And if you don't embrace it, you'll be left behind. Agreed. Tesla. Tesla, I think, is a great company, a good product. I think the leadership is extremely volatile. And as a result of that, I am bearish of Tesla. That was a nice way to say it. That was a nice way of saying Elon is cuckoo bananas. I saw that.

I was at a party in F1 Miami and he was there. And I was like, how is that guy? Like, they're like, everyone's dressed. He was wearing like, yeah, I was just shocked by his power. Just everything. You know when you see people and you're like, whoa, like you could just see their energy from a distance. You're like, damn, oh my God.

It wasn't there for him. And I just couldn't believe, I'm like, this guy like runs the entire world. It's insane. Anyway. And have the Riz as the kids say. The Riz or the, just even, you know, like a Steve Jobs, didn't have Riz,

but Steve Jobs had like a presence where he took over a room. And most people at that level, Michael Rubin was at that party. Michael Rubin's presence, I mean, physically very small guy, his presence is the size of the room. And with him, I was like, huh, interesting. I don't know. Anyway, I digress. Dizzy. Love it. I just think great leadership, innovative, creative, been around forever.

When they're falling, they always find a way to come back. They're acquiring the right companies under their portfolio. Hulu has done amazing. I'm bullish on Disney. GameStop. I wouldn't touch GameStop with a 10-foot pole. It's just, I mean, it's the essence of gambling in its finest form. I wouldn't touch GameStop with a 10 foot pole. It's just, I mean, it's the essence of gambling in its finest form.

Go to Vegas, right? There's massive volatility. You can have an individual that decides to speak for the first time in three years and the stock is going to move over 200X. It's wild to see though how individual investors could have massive impact on individual securities. I mean, we saw roaring kitty literally just put out tweets. That's it, no words, just tweets and video montages. And within 48 hours,

institutions lost over $2 billion from their shorts. And it's just wild to see how retail investors, everyday investors can now come together like the minnows can literally unify and kill sharks. That's a wild thing to see. That's a big takeaway. Investing in game stock even for me though. Reets.

I like reets, but I like public reets. I like reets where there's all information that's available. There are private reets that are very successful. I have seen private reets in my day. I have massive issues and a lot of fraud. The idea of publicly traded REITs to me is a lot more comforting. Bitcoin.

My issue with Bitcoin is that it's strictly, to any economist you speak to, it's strictly just built on speculation. There isn't much of a utility and there's nothing backing it other than a limited supply and demand that is fluctuating based on the speculation of it. So there aren't many currencies in this world in which there's literally nothing behind it but a limited supply and speculation.

You look at your United States dollar, there's the United States behind it. So for that reason, I'm not very bullish on Bitcoin in the long run. Yeah, we had Noreel Roubini on the show and he said he used to call them shit coins, but that was offensive to manure because manure can be used for agriculture. Yeah. I think it's a good place to start is like, go think about anything when it comes to money, where it's pure form of deregulation. And every economist that's out there that has had extreme historical success, and providing advice that is unbiased. It's one of the only things they they're unified on is that it's strictly just based on momentum and speculation. So before I ask my last question, I want to circle back to one of the things you said in the never have I ever answers. You said you'd fallen for a

scam. Yes. Yeah, I felt there's a lot of fun for a bunch of scams. I've gotten a lot better. I fell for one scam when I was on a train in Europe and the gentleman told me that I didn't buy a ticket for the train and what you didn't have to buy a ticket for. And he had a fake POS system. And what he said was that you had to pay for the ticket plus the fine. And so I was, you know, I was kind of, I was by myself in a tough position, in a weird position, and I just, and he had all the right uniform on and I swiped away and he got my credit card information

and then also charged me for that fee plus ticket when there was no ticket. So I learned the hard way there. I've also gotten, when I was in my early 20s, you have to rebook a flight and you're in a rush. I Googled, American Airlines customer service didn't do my due diligence on the number. The number was not American Airlines.

They were faking as other American Airlines. And I thought I was rebooking and rechanging my flight for a certain dollar amount. Meanwhile, I was actually providing a fraudulent phone number, my credit card information. And I've gotten better, but you know, where there's so many things right now where they'll like, tell you there's fraud, like, oh, there's been fraud on your card, click this link to just verify it. And the link is full of phishing. So I think in general, the scams have gotten so sophisticated. And so everyone has to keep an eye out and just do your due diligence before you make phone calls,

before you click links, and of course, before you ever provide information. And fortunately, it was credit cards, which had liability protection, and all that money was returned. But yeah, crazy stuff. Crazy stuff. But yes, they are so good. So you don't feel, would you do that again? Do you think?

No. Are you just like a trusting gullible dude? No, no, no, no. I think I'm a good, I'm very good at falling on my face. I've mastered the fall on your face in like all areas of life, but I've been very good at getting back up in the mirror, seeing the bruise and be like, yeah, we're not going to fall like that again. We might fall, but it's not going to be from that way again. So, and that's kind of life, right? Keep getting knocked down, get picked back up, but just figure out how to avoid the future fall. So I think none of the above would I get hit on again. That's for sure.

I'm sure you're going to fall again. We all will. I'll fall again. Maybe not the same way. I won't fall that way. I won't fall on the train. I won't fall through the booking of the airlines with the wrong number. You know, we end our episodes, Jason, by asking our guests for one money tip listeners can take

straight to the bank. What's yours? I know you have a bajillion. It can be anything tips for managing financial issues in your relationship, new investors, advice for budgeting anything. Okay, I'll give one top of mind. It's in the book and it is about retirement. I think it's so easy to kick the can. I own a talent management agency. We work with different celebrities every day.

It is, and I try and teach them some of the, the financial wherewithal when these big checks are coming in. And it is so easy for anybody and everybody, regardless of how much income you have, to kick the can on retirement. And I think it's really important to put dollars and cents together so people can get a picture. But on average, if you want to retire today, you need to take your annual spend and multiply it times around

20, 25. So let's just say you spend $100,000. I'm just making a simple equation. You spend $100,000 a year. You're going to need $2.5 million to retire to live off that for 30 years, assuming the same lifestyle. And so what I would tell people is if we quickly bring that number down to $50,000, you now need $1.25. And so the ideology of what we're spending today does impact how much we need to save tomorrow is critical. So think through that and think through that aggressively and also recognize I have a full table in my book, but this is an example.

If you're 35 years old, you have a household income of 150K. To be on track for retirement, you need $330,000 saved up. If you don't have $330,000 saved up with that income under your household in that age, you have to play a little catch up. And so you'll have to put about 21% of your gross income

away to get caught up. Now, the longer you wait, the more you're gonna have to put away. And so if you need a wake up call today, just know that the pain tomorrow or a year or five or 10 years is gonna be so much more exorbitant than the small pain today of planning for your retirement. And the big thing is, think about what goes into a vacation

when you go on it for a week, right? You're planning, you gotta look up restaurants, your hotel, your flights, there's your packing, who's watching the dogs, is your security on? That's for a seven day vacation. We, when we retire, it's a 1,500 plus week vacation. And for some reason, we just continue to kick the can. So take some time, think about it, plan for it, and what you do today will really help

tomorrow. Money Rehab is a production of Money News Network. I'm your host, Nicole Lapin. Money Rehab's executive producer is Morgan Lavoie. Our researcher is Emily Holmes. Do you need some Money Rehab? And let's be honest, we all do. So email us your money questions, moneyrehab at moneynewsnetwork.com to potentially have your questions answered on the show or even have a one-on-one intervention with me. And follow us on Instagram at Money News and

TikTok at Money News Network for exclusive video content. And lastly, thank you. No, seriously, thank you. Thank you for listening and for investing in yourself, which is the most important investment you can make. I love hosting on Airbnb. I love hosting on Airbnb. It's a great way to bring in some extra cash, but I totally get it that it might sound overwhelming to start, or even too complicated if, say, you want to put your summer home in Maine on Airbnb, but you live full-time in San Francisco and

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