Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin - Extreme Makeover: Metaverse Edition with Randi Zuckerberg

Episode Date: August 4, 2022

A few months ago, Nicole did an episode on real estate in the metaverse. But because a few months in the metaverse is like several lifetimes in the real world, we’re due for an update. Joining Nicole for this update is the amazing Randi Zuckerberg— who is the Founder and CEO of Zuckerberg Media and host of the weekly radio show Randi Zuckerberg Means Business on Sirius XM. Randi's here to tell us all about how to go into the metaverse; whether we should in the first place; and if/when we do, how to get a bada$$ pair of glittery NFT heels.  Connect with Randi here: https://withkoji.com/@randizuckerberg  

One of the most stressful periods of my life was when I was in credit card debt. I got to a point where I just knew that I had to get it under control for my financial future and also for my mental health. We've all hit a point where we've realized it was time to make some serious money moves. So take control of your finances by using a Chime checking account with features like no maintenance fees, fee-free overdraft up to $200, or getting paid up to two days early with direct deposit. Learn more at Chime.com slash MNN. When you check out Chime, you'll see that you can overdraft up to $200 with no fees. If you're an OG listener, you know about my infamous $35 overdraft fee that

I got from buying a $7 latte and how I am still very fired up about it. If I had Chime back then, that wouldn't even be a story. Make your fall finances a little greener by working toward your financial goals with Chime. Open your account in just two minutes at Chime.com slash MNN. That's Chime.com slash MNN. Chime. Feels like progress. Banking services and debit card provided by the Bancorp Bank N.A. or Stride Bank N.A. Members FDIC. SpotMe eligibility requirements and overdraft limits apply. Booths are available to eligible Chime members enrolled in SpotMe and are subject to monthly limits. Terms and conditions apply. Go to Chime.com slash disclosures for details.

Hey guys, are you ready for some money rehab? Wall Street has been completely upended by an unlikely player game stop and should i have a 401k because you don't do it no i know you think the whole world revolves around you and your money well it doesn't charge for wasting our time i will take a check. You recognize her from anchoring on CNN, CNBC, and Bloomberg. The only financial expert you don't need a dictionary to understand. Nicole Lappin. A few months ago, we did an episode on real estate in the metaverse.

But a few months ago in the metaverse is like several lifetimes in the real world. And so we're due for an update. So I'm bringing on the amazing Randi Zuckerberg, who is the founder and CEO of Zuckerberg Media and hosts a weekly radio show, Randi Zuckerberg Means Business on SiriusXM. She is an expert in all things digital, and she's going to give us a mini Metaverse masterclass. Let's get into it. Oh my God, I'm so excited to say finally, Randy, welcome to Money Rehab. We did it. I'm so happy. I love seeing your face and hearing your voice and I'm so happy to be here. I am so happy to see your face and hear your voice. And I've been on your show like a lot of times.

A million times. You are our most favorite recurring guest, I will say, on the First Time Show. Well, I'm so happy to have you on ours. You just started, but you're already our favorite. And I would love to have your help figuring out the metaverse. Randy, help. You were going to help me figure out the metaverse. No, no, no, no, no, sister. This is all you. You are the queen of Web3 metaverse land. So first of all, I feel very old when I even think about all of this. So can you tell us WTF is the metaverse? Yes. Okay. Well, first of all, I would say

80% of people who use the word metaverse don't have a clue what it is. They're just using it to have a higher valuation for their company or to sound innovative. So for anyone who's listening and feels insecure that they don't know what the metaverse is, congratulations, you're actually part of the vast majority. No one does. But I think one way to think about it is in some ways, Nicole, you and I are in a metaverse right now. Like we're, we're interacting with one another, but it's through screens. It's, it's a screen representation of ourselves that, that we're seeing chatting with one another. And the more time that we spend doing that, the more we care how we look and how we're represented, which is why on zoom, there's things like

touch up my appearance or backgrounds and things. People care. Shocker. They care about how they're represented in digital settings. And so when we talk about the metaverse, we're taking that one step further, which is, you know, you're talking about a full avatar of yourself and how do you represent yourself in a digital world? And we can get into all the wild things that people are buying and doing and investing in real estate and all kinds of economic opportunity. Yes. What are they buying and doing? Well, first of all, I will say that I was very skeptical the first time that I heard about the metaverse. And I got invited to this kind of art gallery party in Decentraland.

Decentraland is one of the bigger metaverses. And it's a popular one because you don't need a VR headset. You can just go on your computer. And I was very skeptical. I was like, I don't even have time to go to art gallery parties with real people. Why do I want to go to one with fake people in a fake world? And Nicole, it was... I mean, within five minutes of creating my avatar, I felt so embarrassed about how basic my avatar looked that I was like, it took me five minutes to want

to spend money in the metaverse to make my avatar a better representation. Cause I just, I felt so disappointed with how she looked. I was like, great. I'm a boring mom in the real world. And now I'm a boring mom in the metaverse, like awesome. And that impulse of like making my avatar a better representation of myself, that was the moment that I was like, okay, there's an economic opportunity here. If I'm feeling this way, then everyone else is feeling that way too. Randy, you are many things and I've known you for, oh my God, is it almost 15 years at this point? Maybe more? You are many things.

Basic is not one of them. You are not a basic lady. So whether it's here in this land or some other land, so you are like the queen of accessories. You're even wearing the coolest earrings right now. I can never keep up. So you accessorized yourself. I did. Now my avatar is wearing these awesome glitter high heels. And she even has these like makeup eyes and things like that. But it was cool. It was actually cool to go to this art gallery

party and interact with people and see how people around the world choose to represent themselves online. The fashion was awesome. It was a really cool experience. People were shopping the artists that were on the gallery walls. It felt very interactive. It didn't feel lonely or isolating. So we're still in very early days. I think, you know, five, 10 years from now, we'll laugh about what these experiences were like today. It's like the early iPhone apps. But you can definitely see glimmers of excitement and what the opportunities could unlock in the future. So how much were those glitter shoes and your smoky eye in the metaverse? Yeah. I mean, I think they were about like $10. So it's not like huge, you know,

bank, like it's not like Louboutins in real life, but, um, but they're not real shoes. So they're not real shoes, but you know, if, if people are interacting with me, it was, it really shocked me how much I cared. Um, cause I, I didn't think I was going to, and I went in, I went in being like, this is going to be stupid. And then I left like having spent $30 on, on accessories for a, an avatar. Um, but it was cool. I got to browse, you know, there's a huge marketplace of accessories for avatars. Um, and what's so interesting is that I feel like when you have conversations with adults, I feel like I have to explain myself and there's all these caveats, but then I turned to my 11 year old and he's like, mom, can I have $20 to buy outfits for like my Nintendo avatar or my Pokemon Go?

And I was like, that's what I just spent two hours explaining to adults that's going to happen. And like he and his friends are just doing that on a regular basis. It feels totally normal to them to be spending money inside these worlds. So they're sort of growing up with it. It's taking us a minute to get down with it. There are a lot of people who say they know about it and do not. So where do you think the real opportunity is here? And Decentraland, by the way, is one of many lands. So it's kind of like a video game where there's like different game universes. Absolutely. I would say far and away the biggest use cases for the

metaverse right now are video gaming. Roblox is probably the most famous metaverse that people have heard of where people are creating their own games and their own universes inside of there. Also, Fortnite, Minecraft are metaverses that people are really familiar with. So video gaming is by far the biggest use case for the metaverse. But what we're starting to see more and what I think is cool about metaverses like Decentraland is that they're starting to become hubs for arts and culture. So you're starting to see these metaverses where people are having concerts and they're having art galleries and DJs are performing. And you're starting to see these new outlets popping up

where fashion and culture are at the forefront. So that's what I'm excited about. There's a lot of people working on education in the metaverse. There's a lot of places in the world where girls can't go to school or people don't have access to great education. And suddenly being able to go to a virtual school in the metaverse unlocks a lot of opportunity for people who didn't have that. There's a lot of healthcare training that's going on. A lot of studies have shown that when doctors can perform surgeries and tasks in a virtual world, they perform them with fewer errors in the real world. So those are some of the youth cases that I'm excited about that were not quite there yet mainstream, but we're getting there.

Let's double click on that analogy for a second. So even though there are multiple metaverses now, metavie, metaverses. I don't know. Let's make the global right here. Yeah, I like metavie. So there are multiple metavie right now, like the video game industry. Do you think that's sustainable? Do you think there's only room for one metaverse? No, I think there's definitely room for multiple. But I think you'll start to see different platforms carving out kind of like what their main niche is like, oh, this is the place for music or and this is the place for gaming. And this is the place for entertainment, and this is the place for gaming, and this is the place for

entertainment and watching content. Or they'll have different personalities. It'll be like going into a cafeteria in high school. Which table? Are you with the Goths? Are you with the band geeks? I feel like different metaverses will start to have different cultures and personalities to them. will start to have different cultures and personalities to them. And so that's why it's really important for anyone who's curious to actually just go play in a few of them. There's really no way to learn except to open up Decentraland or Sandbox or Minecraft and just actually open up some of these platforms and go have a look around at what's happening. And you need a headset for some of them, but not all. Correct. For some of them, like for some of the gaming, like the multiplayer gaming,

you really do need the headset. But a lot, I actually think some of the most exciting things are happening in augmented reality. I think we'll start to see a lot of metaverse experiences where you don't need a headset. You just need, right now, you do need a laptop. The bandwidth on a phone is not quite good enough. But five years from now, you'll be able to open up a metaverse on your phone. In some ways, Pokemon Go, which was all the rage five like five, six years ago was a metaverse. So I think the pandemic really primed all of us having started to do so many things online that we never thought we would do has really primed a lot of us to think of the possibilities of like, wow, maybe we could own real estate online, or maybe I could open like an entire virtual

store that people go to online. Hold on to your wallets, boys and girls. Money Rehab will be right back. One of the most stressful periods of my life was when I was in credit card debt. I got to a point where I just knew that I had to get it under control for my financial future and also for my mental health. We've all hit a point where we've realized it was time to make some serious money moves. So take control of your finances by using a Chime checking account with features like

no maintenance fees, fee-free overdraft up to $200, or getting paid up to two days early with direct deposit. Learn more at Chime.com slash MNN. When you check out Chime, you'll see that you can overdraft up to $200 with no fees. If you're an OG listener, you know about my infamous $35 overdraft fee that I got from buying a $7 latte and how I am still very fired up about it. If I had Chime back then, that wouldn't even be a story. Make your fall finances a little greener by working toward your financial goals with Chime. Open your account in just two minutes at Chime.com slash MNN. That's Chime.com slash MNN. Chime. Feels like progress.

Banking services and debit card provided by the Bank Corp. Bank N.A. or Stride Bank N.A. Members FDIC. Spot me eligibility requirements and overdraft limits apply. Boosts are available to eligible Chime members enrolled in SpotMe and are subject to monthly limits. Terms and conditions apply. Go to Chime.com slash disclosures for details. Now for some more money rehab. So talk to me about the real estate in the metaverse.

Is that still hot? You know, that to me is something that I'm still curious about and learning. I have not personally invested in any real estate in the metaverse, although I have bought some of the cryptocurrency tokens that different metaverse platforms have. Like, for example, Decentraland has their own currency that you have to use to buy. And I have bought some of that currency and a few others. But I haven't taken the plunge into real estate yet. Also, real estate in the metaverse is expensive. If you were sitting there thinking, oh my gosh, real estate in the real world is so

expensive. Good news. I can go buy beautiful land in the metaverse. Well, sorry. You're out of luck there. Sorry, Charlie. You're just screwed all around physical, real estate, digital. It's all expensive. But I think the value of real estate will be predicated on scarcity. If like what you were just saying, if a few of these platforms win and become dominant, the real estate will be very valuable in those. If there's 40 different metaverses that all take off and are all being used, the real estate maybe is a little less valuable across each one. Right. Because it's endless. You and I both lived in New York City for some time. That is finite. You can't build into the water or elsewhere. And so that makes sense why real estate prices are so high.

So how do you make sense of that with the metaverse? And what kind of advice would you give someone who's debating buying any real estate in the metaverse? Well, a few things that are interesting, though, is that if you want to, like for this art gallery party that we went to, and sorry to keep going back to this party. It wasn't that... No, I feel jealous. I mean, it was fun. It was not that epic for as much as I'm talking about it. But for example, in order to throw an event in the metaverse, you need to use some real estate. So you either need to buy real estate or you need to rent it from someone else like a landlord. So for this party, they actually had to rent an event space like you would in the real world and then decorate it for their event and put the art up.

decorate it for their event and put the art up. And so the landlord of that building that was used actually made money from that art gallery party. So if you have the design power, if you're a great 3D designer, or you have access to one, and you can actually build out a beautiful looking space in the metaverse, you can actually make rental income off of that space for people coming in and doing events. So that's one area that you could actually do. But if you don't have that design know-how and aesthetic and the ability or the bandwidth to be renting it out and communicating, then I wouldn't recommend it. How much are we talking? Are there digital open houses where there's also like avatar standing across the street, like all down the street waiting to get in? There's totally digital open houses.

It's the price is based on how central the location is. So if you want to be like in a main, if you want to be in the Times Square of one of these metaverse locations, you're going to pay a pretty penny for that location. If you're okay to be out in the burbs, like where I am right now, and you're just going to give people the address to type into the search bar, you're not going to get any foot traffic unless you give people the address,

then it's much cheaper. So it's funny how these the dynamics play out just like in the real world. When you say a pretty penny, it's not penny. So you said that there are different currencies for each land. So help me follow the money trail. Yes. So there's so there's different currencies. And depending on the day, we all know crypto is very volatile. So depending on the day, you might be getting a great deal on something if on the day, you might be getting a great deal on something if crypto is down, or you might be getting a worse deal if the price of crypto goes up. But a lot of, for example, in Decentraland or in Sandbox, you need to buy a certain amount of land in order to host an event. They do it by square parcels. And they might say,

okay, to have an event like this, you're going to need at least 15 of these squares or 30 of these squares. And then depending on the location, there'll be a price for that in mana or in sand or in their currency. But then once you buy the real estate, you have to build it out. So you actually then you have to have a graphic designer. You have to actually build it into something beautiful that people will want to visit. So there's a lot of steps right now.

Although there's a lot of steps in being a real homeowner too. That's true. That's very true. But I think this whole process will get easier. But right now it's pretty speculative. People are kind of betting that there'll be a clear winner or a few clear winners and that the land will have some scarcity to it. So that, who knows?

Those people are either going to look real smart in a few years, or they're going to be like, we do not talk of 2022. Like, I don't know, there's there's, it only goes in one of those two directions. That makes sense. And let's go back to your party for a second, because we haven't talked about that in a moment. And and back to your shoes. So when you buy like the glitter shoes, or the makeup or any of their accessories, who are you buying that from? Like which brands are doing well and dabbling in the metaverse and making money that way? Most of the time you're buying them from independent artists, which is pretty fun. I love that.

That's your jam, Randy. I do love that. And a lot of the time. So what you do is you buy it as an NFT. Oh, God. And so I know now we're getting super hardcore. Stop me at any minute. So you basically buy it as an NFT. It goes into your crypto wallet. So in my wallet right now, it says cat ears. I have an NFT that's cat ears. it's not like a piece of art that I would trade or collect.

It's like something that when I log into a metaverse with my wallet, like those cat ears are available to me to decorate my avatar. So you basically, you buy an NFT of a virtual good from an independent artist, which like you said, I love supporting independent artists, especially women. And then you have them in your NFT wallets. You can take them with you to different metaverses. It's not like if you buy something in one, you only use it there. Once you have it in your wallet, it goes with you. That's what's so exciting about Web3 and this new ownership economy. Can you define Web3 while we're at it? I'm not sure, to be totally honest. I'll try. I'll give it a try. But I think, I was on the front lines of Web2. And Web2 was really about putting a social graph over the internet. So suddenly, it was all of the information that you could get from Web1,

but with this social layer of your friends and your connections overlaid on top of all of the information that you could get from Web 1, but with this social layer of your friends and your connections overlaid on top of all of that, which made it richer and more exciting. Now Web 3 is putting an ownership layer over all of that. So whereas right now, Nicole, you're such a tastemaker. I feel like you always know the coolest things that are going on. You don't get really rewarded for that in Web 2 of being a tastemaker. But in Web 3, if you're the first to discover a band or first to discover an artist or you're like that friend that always knows the latest things,

that always knows the latest things, you can actually be part of the success of that band or that artist rising through their career and be part of the ownership of that. So how would you explain to your mom, although your mom in particular is very savvy and sassy and probably already knows, but how would you explain to a mom that wants to just start from scratch right now? You talked about wallets and NFTs and different kinds of crypto because Web3 also is really powered by crypto. It's not powered by dollars. So where would you even start? What's step one? And I mean, honestly, Nicole, this is part of the problem. This is why it hasn't gone mainstream is because there's like 45 steps from wanting to start to getting anywhere. And there's so many pitfalls and areas

to get hacked and scammed and everything in this. So like there's 45 steps and those steps are happening in a really sketchy neighborhood. And so no wonder people are skeptical. But if you want to explore Metaverse, for example, you have to open a crypto wallet because that's the way you log into these sites. And what are some of those examples?

Metamask, Phantom Wallet, Rainbow, Coinbase Wallet. Those are a few of the big players, but there are multiples. So you would open a wallet. You would have to buy some cryptocurrency and transfer it into that wallet. So you go to like Coinbase or something. Buy it, transfer it into your wallet, right? So we're already at about four steps that you have to do. But any crypto, like Bitcoin, Ethereum, does it matter? If you want to, it depends on the site you're going to. If you want to buy art, you would want Ethereum in your wallet

because that's really the crypto that people are buying and selling art with. If you want to go play on Decentraland, you'll want their currency. If you want to go support new coming artists and musicians, a lot of them are on different blockchains from that. So depending on what you want to do... So now you have to do some research on top of everything. You have to do some research about what you want to do. Buy a little crypto, put it in your wallet. There's usually a 10-day waiting period the first time that you do that from your bank. So let's say that you have somehow done all of those steps and have survived not being hacked, then you're going to want to be on Twitter or Discord because that's where you learn

everything that's happening in the crypto space. And based on what you see, what's happening, or a community that you feel like is a good fit for you, then that's when you can really start having fun. That's a lot of steps. I know. Why would anyone do that? Sometimes I ask myself why I do that. And so that's why... I love Web3. I desperately want women to get in on the ground floor and be part of it. But I also understand that it is not ready for mainstream yet. Like when you have to do that many steps, it's not ready for my mom or for millions of people. When do you think the steps will be fewer?

I think, I mean, there's a lot of big players that are working on it right now. I think, you know, there's a push and pull because the whole ethos of Web3 is that it's decentralized, that there isn't one or two big players that are controlling the ecosystem. But on the other hand, without a few players controlling the ecosystem, you have this 14-step process where you're setting things up. So I think where we're going to have to fall in order for this world to be become mainstream is it's going to be like web 2.5. Like there's going to have to be a few big players that are overseeing

things with the opportunity for everyone to own their own wallet and be able to bounce around between those players. But having your wallet is so important. It is. I mean, your crypto wallet will be like the equivalent of your driver's license or your passport or your ID in the real world. You will log into sites with your wallet. You will get credentialed for things in your wallet. In the future, probably things like your vaccine card and your diplomas and things like that will happen in your wallet that you can bring with you always instead of having to produce paper copies of things and lose them.

And so I think more and more, that's going to become like your main source of identity across anything you do digitally. Okay, so now that we have our education, and we are ready to go into the metaverse, where should we go? What kind of communities would you recommend? Yes, there are so many awesome communities in crypto that I love. But if anyone wants to come hang with me in the metaverse, I run a community called Hug. We named it Hug purposely to be very welcoming and friendly and non-intimidating because crypto and metaverse can be very intimidating.

because crypto and metaverse can be very intimidating. And we like to say that we are the friendliest second stop on your Web3 journey because there are so many great beginner communities that will teach you how to set up a wallet and how to do all the beginner steps. I recommend Curious Addy is my favorite beginner community. My BFF is a great community for beginners. So once you've set up your wallet,

if you're still excited after you've done that, come check us out at Hug. We regularly do training. We do field trips into the metaverse. We do parties. We educate creators on how to mint their own NFT collections and build things. So would love to have anyone who's crypto curious come join us. Yes.

Who doesn't want to hug from you anywhere? I would take a hug from you in any verse. Everyone has to have a crypto name. Like it's not cool to go by your real name. So I am the mother hugger. Of course you are. So where do you come up with your name and or you can go straight to our website, thehug.xyz. And we're very findable across social media and our community. Everyone in our community has like a little hug emoji that they put in their name on Twitter.

So you can easily tell anyone. We have about 3,000 people in the hug community who are creating and founding businesses in Web3 that are part of it. So look out for any huggers or the mother hugger and come join us. Mother hugger. And the extension XYZ is all Web3 stuff? Yeah, that's like Web3. So if you are starting a Web3 business and you want it like sound legit, there's a few things you need. You need an XYZ domain and you need no pitch decks. Pitch decks not cool in Web3. You use Notion to come up with your business plan and then you send that directly

to people. So that's also just a few pro tips on how to sound Web3. I love that. Fake it till you make it. So Notion would be like the Web3 PowerPoint? Like the Web3 Google Docs. I see. And then how do you come up with your name? Because now I feel like I need to also squat my name before it goes away. Yeah. No, you need to think about your crypto name for sure. I'll help you brainstorm one.

And you need a fun. You probably need to buy an NFT that you can use as your profile picture too. Okay. 46 steps. Now we added a 46 step to everything you have to do. So yeah, so easy. For today's tip, you can take straight to the bank. If you're interested in dabbling around anything in the Web3 space, I'm talking NFTs, crypto, and yes, even the metaverse, you need to get a digital wallet. In the metaverse, you need to keep your assets safe, just like you do in the real world. And to do that, get yourself a wallet. Money Rehab is a production of iHeartRadio. I'm your host, Nicole Lappin. Our producers are Morgan Lavoie and Mike Coscarelli.

Executive producers are Nikki Etor and Will Pearson. Our mascots are Penny and Mimsy. Huge thanks to OG Money Rehab team Michelle Lanz for her development work, Catherine Law for her production and writing magic, and Brandon Dickert for his editing, engineering, and sound design. And as always, thanks to you for finally investing in yourself so that you can get it together and get it all.