Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin - How To Take Parental Leave When You're an Entrepreneur.... Or a Workaholic

Episode Date: November 28, 2024

Today, Nicole opens up about how she's been thinking about taking parental leave; from the logistical side of taking time off as a self-employed person to the emotional side of stepping away from your work, when you're someone who defines yourself by your work. In this episode, you'll hear a preview of a conversation Nicole had on the podcast she cohosts with Entrepreneur Magazine editor in chief Jason Feifer, where Jason shares how he and his wife figured out these logistical and emotional questions and how Nicole (and any Money Rehabbers interested in being parents!) can too.

I love hosting on Airbnb. It's a great way to bring in some extra cash, but I totally get it that it might sound overwhelming to start or even too complicated. If say you wanna put your summer home in Maine on Airbnb, but you live full-time in San Francisco and you can't go to Maine every time you need to change sheets for your guests or something like that.

If thoughts like these have been holding you back, I have great news for you. Airbnb has launched a co-host network, which is a network of high quality local co-hosts with Airbnb experience that can take care of your home and your guests. Co-hosts can do what you don't have time for, like managing your reservations, messaging your guests, giving support at the property, or even create your listing for you. I always want to line up a reservation for my house when I'm traveling for work, but sometimes I just don't get around to it because getting ready to travel always feels like a scramble so I don't end up making time to make my

house look guest-friendly. I guess that's the best way to put it. But I'm matching with a co-host so I can still make that extra cash while also making it easy on myself. Find a co-host at airbnb.com slash host. One of the most stressful periods of my life was when I was in credit card debt. I got to a point where I just knew that I had to get it under control for my financial future and also for my mental health. We've all hit a point where we've realized it was time to make some serious money moves. So take control of your finances by using a Chime checking account with features like no maintenance fees, fee-free overdraft up to $200, or getting paid up to two days early with direct deposit.

Learn more at chime.com slash MNN. When you check out Chime, you'll see that you can overdraft up to $200 with no fees. If you're an OG listener, you know about my infamous $35 overdraft fee that I got from buying a $7 latte and how I am still very fired up about it. If I had Chime back then, that wouldn't even be a story. Make your fall finances a little greener by working toward your financial I had Chime back then, that wouldn't even be a story. Make your fall finances a little greener by working toward your financial goals with Chime. Open your account in just two minutes at chime.com slash mnn. That's chime.com slash mnn. Chime. Feels like progress.

Banking services and debit card provided by the BankCorp Bank NA or Stride Bank NA. Members FDIC. SpotMe eligibility requirements and overdraft limits apply. Boosts are available to eligible CHIME members enrolled in SpotMe and are subject to monthly limits. Terms and conditions apply. Go to chime.com slash disclosures for details. I'm Nicole Lapin, the only financial expert you don't need a dictionary to understand.

It's time for some money rehab. So this pregnancy thing is no joke, you guys. I am nine months pregnant, which has felt like 900 months. If you didn't know I was pregnant, by the way, surprise, I did mention it in my episode with Senator Gillibrand, but other than that, I've been keeping it pretty private. I have processed a lot of big life moments publicly, and this totally insane but amazing experience of growing a small human is something that I wanted to just process with me and my husband. But I do kind of need to talk about it now because my daughter could come truly any second now. Hosting a daily podcast is not so conducive to taking a maternity leave. And beyond this type of work I do,

I'm also someone who has always defined myself by work. So I'm really struggling with the idea of taking time off in general. So today you're gonna hear an episode of the podcast, Help Wanted, that I co-host with the editor in chief of entrepreneur magazine, Jason Pfeiffer. In this episode, I talked to Jason

about how I've been trying to be open-minded about taking Matt leave, and Jason gives me some advice based on his own experience taking leave after he and his wife had their two kids. But before I share that episode, I want to tell you first what money rehab is going to look like for the next few weeks. Today and tomorrow are my last episodes of money rehab. For now, not forever. Because even though my daughter has not been born yet,

I can barely breathe, I can barely get through all of these sentences. I am so pregnant right now. Yes, these are the fun things that nobody tells you about pregnancy, by the way. But even though tomorrow will be my last episode of Money Rehab for a beat, it's not the last episode of Money Rehab, don't worry,

because while I'm out, we're actually doing something that I think you're really gonna love. This show, of course, must go on. I would not leave you money rehabbers hanging. And so the show is going to be guest hosted by some of the smartest people I know, like Tracy Denunzio, who built and sold the luxury resale company Tradesy. Peter Tuckman, the stockbroker you know and love, fellow MNN podcast host who reports

from the floor of the New York Stock Exchange. Minda Hart, who's the bestselling author of The Memo and is an expert on workplace culture. Moe Swannunu, who's been a journalist with me for 500 years and hosts my favorite daily podcast Moe News, which is actually joining the MNN family. So yay. Claire Wasserman, who is an expert on pay negotiation, real estate agent extraordinaire John Grauman, attorney, but a very cool one, Pamela Ma Maas aka lawmother on Instagram, and our very own EP Morgan Lavoie and

more. You'll hear more about that tomorrow in an episode that is all about budgeting for babies and some more sappiness but in the meantime here's my conversation with Jason. Nicole, how do you feel right now? Do you want the very, very honest answer that like the most unvarnished answer? Yes. I feel so large. I, I cannot breathe. I normally can't breathe as you know, and we saw tips about this, but I extra can't

breathe. My pelvis is on fire. Right. There's a thing called lightning crouch, which you haven't experienced, but it's a real side effect of pregnancy. If you look up all the side effects of pregnancy, it looks like this crazy fucking disease. Yeah. Well, I mean, in any other circumstance, you might as well say that it is a terrible disease. Like you have a thing growing inside of you, usually a thing growing inside of you.

I think you want the thing that sounds bad. Human life. This is how it happens. We're a bunch of animals. It's really crazy. Like going through pregnancy just shows you like we're not elevated in

any way. We're a bunch of animals doing animal things. You are beyond nine months pregnant right now. Right. Like literally beyond it. Yeah, I am. We were not supposed to be recording today because you were supposed to already be on maternity leave. I know, but I don't have a baby yet.

Right. So, but just, just, just to be really, really clear before we get into this, what we're going to talk about today is we're going to talk about stepping back and what you're feeling in this moment, because you, you and I, we, we work like crazy and you've built this company and now you're going to take a big ol break from it. And that's scary. Yeah, you don't want to. Which is why you're here today because so just for context so everybody understands the episodes with you and I that people hear every week are recorded every other week for us. We set up a bunch of time and then we record a bunch of episodes in a row and two weeks ago was supposed to be the last one. And then we were supposed to say,

bye, Nicole, have a wonderful maternity. And you were like, no, if I haven't had the baby, we're going to make another recording, which is crazy, but also says a lot about how dedicated you are to your work. So how, how is it staring down, stepping away? Like how are you feeling about that? Um, yeah, so aside from the acid reflux that I forgot to mention, I'm feeling a lot of things like my first baby has always been work. And so it's always been my main focus and my main priority. And it's funny, we had a guest on Money Rehab a few weeks ago who was like, Oh, you're a mama already. Because on my Instagram bio, it says like mama of money news or something. And so I've always felt that way, like, and especially with Eminem, it's my baby. And so like, I don't want to leave. I don't want to leave my baby for another baby. And I've never had an actual baby. So,

so it's really weird. And like working for yourself and not having a formal, you know, maternity leave program. I'm curious what you engendered or how much paternity leave if you took any or what kind of entrepreneurial things you were doing when you were having the boys. But it's confusing. I went through a bunch of, you know, rigmarole to try and figure out if there was anything for entrepreneurs. California is kind of robust, but still it was really hard and complicated and I never ended up figuring something out with it. So, you know, you're in a position where if you're an entrepreneur who has a, you know, bootstrap startup and not a formal mat leave program, you're like, well, I eat what I kill. And so if I'm not killing anything, because I'm trying to keep a human alive, then like, are we eating stuff? And so it was a lot of, you know, that concern and consideration to try and

figure out like, do I take time off? How much time do I take? I have no idea what's about to happen. So let's just, you know, work for as long as I can. But I also had a lot of anxiety around where I would be working because until a few months ago, we opened beautiful M&N studios, but the studio was in a room in my house. And so I do it just to be just to be clear, the vast majority of the time, almost all the time that people have heard you, you have been on mic in a studio,

which was actually just in a bedroom in your home that you had set up as a studio. And now that bedroom is taken over by a baby. So you had to go find another place to put that microphone. I did, I did. And it was so convenient and we had real shoots in there. We had Gary Vee coming by, we had a bunch of celebrities and cool stuff going on.

And so it was in my house, but it was also so convenient. And, and yeah, it was the only place where we could put a baby. And my husband, he is also an entrepreneur. We created like a shed for him basically on the roof for his office. And you know, like the baby can't live in a shed outside. The baby needed the room inside. And it is currently a nursery. And now we have beautiful actual offices with like real big rooms and setups and stuff. And it's awesome. And it's a huge upgrade and a huge testament

to all of the work we've done in the last couple of years. But I also was trying to figure out at the time, do we get a bigger house? Like, so we were looking simultaneously at some larger homes that we could have the office in the home plus a baby room, you know, plus Jared's office, whatever. And, you know, something about it just made me feel like I might need some separation because having baby stuff, work stuff all in the same place felt maybe like I would, you know, be

having an identity crisis in no time and not really able to step away and not really able to get back to my first baby, my first love. And so, yeah, I think it ended up working out from from that perspective. And I think having that separation is going to be really important. And I think that's setting me up for more success than I would have had otherwise. You know, what's interesting is this metaphor that you had has evolved because so work was your first baby and that baby had its own little nursery in

the form of a studio in your home and then the baby had the work baby got kicked out for an actual baby which is forcing the work baby to grow up and to become to become like a work child or a young adult. And for a while you were like, well, but maybe they can both be babies and they can both have their own little nurseries at home. But you're thinking, no, no, no. Like this is actually like to have a child

is in some way to accelerate or to force the evolution of the other things in your life, which is exactly what it's worth. What I have found with me, like I am, and we've talked about this, I am so deeply frustrated by the thoughts of how much more I might have accomplished or could do or whatever that I can't because I have kids.

But at the same time, I have to remind myself that the time of my life in which I have had children, which has been nine years, I have a nine-year-old and a five-year-old, that time has been the time of greatest accomplishment in my life. I have built the most during that time. So even as I focus on all the things that I couldn't do, I've also done the most. Why is that? I mean, part of that is just like, if you're doing life correctly,

then there should always be new things and you're growing. But another part of it is that I think that just having the kid forced me to put structures around my time in a way that I never had before, and to be really intentional about how I'm using my time, and to drop things that I enjoyed, but that just weren't as productive a'm using my time and to drop things that I enjoyed, but that just weren't as productive a use of my time. And as a result, my work has thrived. And that

sounds like what you're setting up here. Yeah. I mean, you talk very honestly. We did a whole episode about this. This was how I told you I was pregnant after you bashed children for an hour. Yes, worth going back and listening to that episode. Yeah. We'll link it. Yeah, that was classic. You had no idea. I had no idea. That was amazing. I got a lot of emails. Did I tell you that? I got a lot of emails from that episode. They were really grateful about how honest I was about the challenges of parenthood. In fact, I was, um, I was just talking with a friend who lives in Montana and I was being open about how challenging I find parenting. And she was shocked because she was like, nobody in Montana would ever say something like that. And I, and I do think

it's true that in more work oriented cultures like New York, where I live, there's probably a bit more comfort with talking like that. But most people are not comfortable talking about it. But I think that it's really important. It'll be important for you as you'll find out. Parenting will be very rewarding, but also you're going to wipe a lot of asses and you're not going to enjoy any of that. It's okay not to enjoy any of that. It's okay not to enjoy any of that. Thanks, Jason. I am duly prepared to have a lot of poop in my life. Thank you so much for the warning.

You're welcome. So what did you and Jen do? Did you have thoughts or anxiety about taking time off? So Well, you know if we rewind to the times in which we were having kids nine years ago and five and a half years ago, I in both cases was Fully employed like, you know, like today I have a job to yeah, like yeah Just a w-2 employee with that where drew, if not 100% of my income, 90% of my income. Like, that's not the case now. Now, I still have a W-2, but I also have a whole lot of entrepreneurial pursuits and like make more outside than inside the company. But back then, it was just that.

So I had just a regular paternity leave of, I can't remember how much it was. It wasn't that much, a couple of weeks. And then my wife, Jen, she is self-employed, but as a freelancer. So she's really like eating what she kills. It's just like project to project to project to project. And it was interesting. Jen had more thoughts and feelings on this dual source of purpose and deep anxiety. And she is always thinking about, I mean, she drives, she drives a lot of value from her work and she loves her work and it's a place of passion for her. But also she's always thinking about what's coming next and will this project lead to another project? Am I at the end of my career? Jen's always thinking of this, right? She'll write a book and then it'll be like,

oh, is this the last book that I ever get to write? Is this the last article that I ever get to write? So there's a lot of anxiety. So she saw maternity leave as a opportunity to take a break from that, to just say, I have another thing to focus on a bigger, but kind of weightier, I don't know, like whatever. It's a more important thing. It's a human being. Yeah. It's an actual human being. So she was really hoping that that project of taking a break and just focusing on raising a child could eliminate some of the anxiety that she was feeling about work and just like give her a break from it.

And I think that it did in the actual break, like the actual few weeks that she gave herself for quote unquote maternity leave, it certainly did not in the long run. Like she still has all that work anxiety even though we have our children, but she really loved that. And I think wanted to find a moment to recalibrate from it. Me on the other hand, honestly, what I did is that I used my paternity leave both times to just do other work projects. Like I just, I just, I remember I was working on a podcast, five and a half years ago, a solo podcast project.

And I just, I spent basically my entire paternity leave at home when I was not helping out with the baby, just like working on that thing. Cause I don't really know how to stop. And I don't, I don't know what else I would do with my time. So. Yeah, because babies are, are sleeping a lot. I mean, they're pooping and they're eating and

their stuff, but like you still have time. The beginning, the very beginning is, it's the easiest time. I mean, you will like the, it's really real. The hardest part is sleeping because the baby will be waking you up constantly. But yeah, babies just, baby's not doing much. It doesn't really require that much of your work. Like you're going to sit around and be bored. Like I have a feeling that you will, it'll be very interesting to see what you do. Do you find other things to do? Like, like Jen really committed to watching a bunch

of trashy TV and just checking out and just, just enjoying being on a break. Whereas I, I didn't, I don't know how to do that. So I just worked on something else that wasn't my work. I, I, what do you, like, I wonder what you are going to do when you just have like, you have permission to have a break right now, Nicole. You have permission to have a break. No, first of all, I've never watched trashy TV.

I've never, not once, not ever seen a Real Housewives show or any of that stuff. I definitely don't think I would be starting now. Hold onto your wallets. Money Rehab will be right back. I love hosting on Airbnb. It's a great way to bring in some extra cash. But I totally get it that it might sound overwhelming to start or even too complicated if, say, you want to put your summer home in Maine on Airbnb, but you live full time in San Francisco

and you can't go to Maine every time you need to change sheets for your guests or something like that. If thoughts like these have been holding you back, I have great news for you. Airbnb has launched a co-host network, which is a network of high quality local co-hosts with Airbnb experience that can take care of your home and your guests.

Co-hosts can do what you don't have time for, like managing your reservations, messaging your guests, giving support at the property, or even create your listing for you. I always want to line up a reservation for my house when I'm traveling for work, but sometimes I just don't get around to it because getting ready to travel always feels like a scramble so I don't end up making time to make my house look… guest-friendly, I guess that's the best way to put it. But I'm matching with a co-host so I can still make that extra cash while also making it easy on myself.

Find a co-host at airbnb.com slash host. One of the most stressful periods of my life was when I was in credit card debt. I got to a point where I just knew that I had to get it under control for my financial future and also for my mental health. We've all hit a point where we've realized it was time to make some serious money moves.

So take control of your finances by using a Chime checking account with features like no maintenance fees, fee-free overdraft up to $200, or getting paid up to two days early with direct deposit. Learn more at chime.com slash MNN. When you check out Chime, you'll see that you can overdraft up to $200 with no fees.

If you're an OG listener, you know about my infamous $35 overdraft fee that I got from buying a $7 latte and how I am still very fired up about it. If I had Chime back then, that wouldn't even be a story. Make your fall finances a little greener by working toward your financial goals with Chime. Open your account in just two minutes at chime.com slash mnn. That's chime.com slash mnn. Chime. Feels like progress.

Banking services and debit card provided by the BankCorp Bank NA or Stride Bank NA. Members FDIC. SpotMe eligibility requirements and overdraft limits apply. Boosts are available to eligible Chime members enrolled in SpotMe and are subject to monthly limits. Terms and conditions apply. Go to Chime.com slash disclosures for details. And now for some more money rehab. I feel like I'm going to be checking in or like I'm going to, yeah, I can't imagine being fully checked out. Again, I have no idea and you know, like, especially for Jen, for me, we have different physical recovery

to go through and so that's definitely something to be mindful of. I don't think I could, even if I wanted to like record a podcast like you did, right? I would probably be resting and I'm finding the recordings, you know, really challenging. It's just really challenging to breathe. All of my organs are smushed. And so that part of it I've found really challenging. So I think like staying on email or staying on, you know, sort of computer-y projects that aren't on air would make sense. Like I want to do that. I don't know how I could just be like, okay, all right, bye, Martin.

Yeah. Figure it all out. Goodbye. Right. Okay. Can I tell you the, as we were talking, I was just flashing back to this moment. This to me was the, I don't know, maybe I've shared this with you before. I can't remember. So tell me if not. When I think back on this moment of transition from not having children to having children,

and just like an awareness moment for me, I don't know. I don't know how to categorize this thing. I'll just, I'll just tell you what it is, which is that I remember nine years ago, Jen is pregnant with her first boy. She is like you, she's just like couldn't be more pregnant. We were who knows, we were hours to days away from the whole thing going. We were sitting on our living room floor and I don't know what we were doing. Maybe we were playing a game or something. I don't know what we were doing. Maybe we were playing a game or something. I don't know what we were doing. And it occurred to me. And so what I said

to her was I said, everyone always says after having children for a long time, you sort of like can't remember life with without them. Not not like just because like your life is just so different. It's like, what did I do with all my time? You know, you sort of forget. And and I said, I said. I said, we are we are living right now at the very end of before times. Like the rest of our life will be divided by this moment. You know, life is divided by all sorts of moments, but like a big one is this one.

And like BK before kids. Yeah, it literally is BK or Burger King. And, and so like we, I was just like, we are in the, we are at the end of the before times. And as a, it's a strange, I didn't know what to do with that thought, but I liked being aware of it. You know, like you're in these seasons of life and sometimes you only realize that you moved from one season to the next, like in retrospect. I don't know if people in the middle ages were like, we are in the middle ages.

You know, like it's only later that you were like, those are the middle ages. But this is a moment where you're like, this is the- Yeah, or like the good old days. Yeah, the good old days. Like we're in the good old days. Yeah, it's like, this is the- Yeah, or like the good old days. Remember the good old days? Like we're in the good old days. Yeah, it's like this is the end of before times. And so the more immediate questions are like,

I don't, will I be able to step away? Will I want to step away? I don't think I want to. Like those are actually just the kind of hypothetical beginning questions of what it will actually mean to reorient your time and priorities. And everyone does this differently. My guess for you is, you tell me if I'm right or wrong, but my guess is that you'll probably do it a lot like I did it and like Jen did it, which is to say the kids are an important

part of our lives, but we didn't drop everything to have the kids replace it. And so there's this always tension about like where we're being pulled. And so a thing that you will need to do in a way that you kind of never did before was to just start to draw lines. And one of them was that very smart thing that you anticipated here already, which is like if you were in a house where the baby was and where the work baby was, then you're getting, they're going to get like pulled from both of them. And so there, there needs to be separate spaces almost so that you can give each the attention that they deserve. You know, like

actually it was interesting because when you talked about that, you talked about it really from the perspective of you're working, but then the baby needs something. So you sort of have to get drawn to the baby. But it goes the other way too, right? Which is that you could be with the baby, but then feel drawn to work. And so you're not fully present with the kid. But if you create an actual separation, just the studio is somewhere else, then that's actually an interesting forcing function to be a little more present. And I'm not very good at being present. So I'm not, I'm making things up right now. But I could imagine that drawing those kinds of lines could be very good for being present.

Yeah, I think it's like the mental health boundary became really clear as we were trying to figure out what the space was, how important that would be. And also, you know, just by nature of our business, we were having guests and stuff come like we didn't have a baby. You know, come on in. Yeah. I think like having a baby and a baby nurse and stuff and like guests. It was just, it felt like my home that I had before I met my baby daddy was this bachelorette palace

and then he came and then baby came. And so it changed my interpretation of what that space was and what it should be or how practical know, how practical it would be to have it be both. And I realized really quickly that I don't think that's going to be beneficial for either of the roles that I'm trying to do well. To your point, yeah, like when you're doing one thing and you're thinking about another thing, you're not fully present or doing that thing. You might as well be doing the other thing. And so I'm sure I'm going to feel pulled in that way and, and like physically,

you know, I don't know, like I'm going to have to feed a baby. Like, we ended up finding an office that was in walking distance to the house. So that's nice, but still important separation, I think. And also like this identity idea, because I was like, for a while losing, I felt like my office, I ended up, you know, having my dog go to a friend because I was finding it really hard to run after her. She's like a little dog and I was exhausted. And so I felt like this baby was like taking this, you know, space that was really important to my identity and like my, my, my studio, my dog was gone and like, here I am. Like

with leaky boobs and a baby. And stripped down to the bone. Yeah. And so I felt like I had to take control of that and to and I think we did it in a really impactful way. Like we took the studio was and we souped it up. Like it's a real functioning thing. It's really cool and I'm really proud of it. And it was a forcing function. And I think it was like a net positive for the company, actually, because you, you, you, you, it's going to make like some sort of weird umbilical cord cut reference here, but like, you know, because you let it, you let it separate.

It's so close. I know it was almost there and I don't, I don't know how to cut the cord. I'm just going to keep going with it. So because you separated it, because you let this work baby grow up and move into its own place, now it can grow in ways that it never could have when you were treating it like a baby, I guess is the point, right?

Totally. Yeah, we could rent it out. We could do a lot of things. Right, which is a really great lesson in change, isn't it? I mean, it's like, what this really is, is just the very beginning. It will be the first of endless, right? This is like the one from before times

that will then be carried over into all the decisions and after times where you're discovering that the forcing function of separating out parts of life or of having to be more intentional about how you're doing something because it now has to fit into a more complex life with a child like all of that we're as crazy making as it can be if you think about it in a different way those breaks are the things that allow for growth yeah if I didn't get pregnant,

we would still have our cute little studio in my house. I wouldn't have felt motivated to change that as quickly as I did. And when you and I were talking about it, as we were trying to think through, should we create a studio? We were looking at even bigger studio spaces, like more expensive spaces where we thought

we could really rent this out and run a studio, we were looking at even bigger studio spaces, like more expensive spaces where we thought we could really rent this out and run a studio business. And you were like, yeah, change the cost center to a profit center. Like, I'm here for it. And that was a whole other business. We ended up, you know, finding something that was really nice and not over the top where we needed to rent it out. But like, we could if we wanted to. We could, you know, have other shows and other streams of income at some point. But doing that was never like top of the very, very long to-do list until it had to be.

And so, yeah, I really, you know, I think it worked out for the better. At the time I was really conflicted about it. But I think overall, the way the studio boundary was forced ended up being something that we could benefit from. And also that will just set me up for some postpartum good mental health. I was really concerned about this identity crisis thing. Yeah, I want to hear more about that. I mean, it was just, it was just like run of the mill.

Like I, I really am concerned about, you know, postpartum, how I'm going to be feeling physically and mentally and my husband's amazing. He's really like optimizing for mental health, postpartum, and I think that's a really big thing. We've all seen women struggle with that. And I wanna try to just be mindful of how that might lay out and do whatever I can prophylactically or proactively

to stave off any sort of postpartum depression or anxiety, or, or, you know, I don't know, whatever, whatever happens. Yeah, yeah. When you're talking about identity, I was reminded of this moment. So share may be useful. So when I travel and do keynotes, I often do this thing where I walk people through an exercise to identify a mission statement for themselves. The idea being that we make this mistake of too closely tying our identities to the roles that we occupy or the tasks that we perform. So it's like, if I go around and say like, my identity is I'm a magazine editor. The problem with that is just so it's just so easily changeable.

You know, like the roles we occupy, the tasks we perform are changeable. And so if that's what our identity is, then our identity is too easily rocked. If I'm a magazine editor as an identity, then all it takes is one guy, Bill, you know, my boss at Entrepreneur Magazine, like one guy calling me and firing me to completely obliterate the identity. And that's a bad place to be. So I encourage people to create a mission statement for themselves where it's a short sentence,

it starts with I, every word carefully selected because it is not anchored to something that's easily changeable. So it's the difference between I am a magazine editor and I tell stories in my own voice am a magazine editor and I tell stories in my own voice. Right. And because I tell stories in my own voice is like, I can do that anywhere. You could fire me from everything and I can still do that in any platform. So it's like the IRA of identity. You can take it anywhere you go. Yeah. Nicely done. Nicely done. So I gave this little talk as I often do. I was at a YPO event in

Chicago and afterwards this woman came up to me. People often come up to me afterwards and they tell me the mission statement that they came up with. And it's usually stuff like I help teams achieve greatness or I solve the most complex problems. They're great. I love hearing them. But this woman says something I'd never heard before. She said that she had built a consultancy, like a very successful consultancy. And then she had her first child and she wanted to be very involved in the child and raising the child. So she decided to just hit pause on the consultancy, just like, just pause on the business, pause all business and just stay home and raise the child.

And although she is finding the act of being with her child and raising her child to be very personally rewarding, it has given her an identity crisis because she does not think of herself as a stay at home mom. That is just not how she identifies. That's not what she would ever say of herself, even though that is very technically what she is right now. And she didn't know how to manage that or how to, how to create a coherence in that. And my mission statement thing prompted this thought. She said her mission now is, I help people become the best versions of themselves. Because that applies to the consulting work that she

was doing and it also applies to raising the child. And that was a really helpful unlock for her to see that the thing that she's doing now is consistent with the thing that she was doing before and is consistent with whatever else that she does next. And I really loved that. And so I offer you that as a way of thinking, this will absolutely change some way in which you understand yourself. And it has to, right?

Because you've oriented yourself so much around work and now there is, that's not to say that you won't do that in the future, but to aspire to, I think, is to give yourself an understanding, like a better understanding of your identity instead of shaking your identity. Yeah. Oh, I love that. Yeah. I like to educate people, whether they're babies or grown-ass adults. It's interesting because I tried to do some of those exercises a couple of years ago when it really wasn't looking like I was going to have kids. I'm jumping into the maternity party like at the 11th hour, you know, 59th minute. Like I'm really, you know, elevator being like, don't smush it. Let's get in. So you know, I, I just didn't think that it was going to happen and I really wanted to

be comfortable with it. And you know, I thought like, realistically, my, my window was closing and I hadn't found my person and all of that. And so I did some real work around like what is my role as a mother on this planet without human children. And so like I have these journals that I, you know, had tried to articulate this idea that I can feel like I'm mothering or like teaching people or like mentoring people or acting in a motherly way without having like actual babies. And so, you know, I tried to do that in reverse where I was like, how can I use the mother role in the work role and be okay with being a, you know, stay at home workaholic instead of being a stay at home mom.

So, yeah, I think I can maybe smush the identity of that with this new identity, whatever that is, together. But I am really worried about, you know, how I'm going to find the time in the day, because I literally had to put on my calendar on Monday, we ended up squeezing in some more recordings that I was like, must shower. You know, I don't know, how am I going to bathe another human and myself and do all the work? We're going to find out. But I'm pretty concerned about that. Yeah. Well, I feel like I can barely take care of myself.

But, you know, I don't really have a choice but to keep another human alive. You know, the answer is that it just happens. You just kind of grow into it. And then also some days you also just don't shower. It's also true. You just don't. But you know, also it doesn't matter because whatever. I mean, look, I really like that. That is a that's a really cool thing. I didn't know that you had gone through that first exercise and that you're now almost doing it in reverse.

But I think the real answer is that like anything in life, any big important thing in life, you just, you don't actually, there's no way to actually plan for it. The best you can do is kind of like march into it with open eyes and open ears. And then you just kind of figure it out. Hold onto your wallets. Money rehab will be right back. And now for some more money rehab.

People have asked me like for advice on like, oh, how do you know, how do you balance this or how do you and the answer is that you don't start by running, you know, you like start in the, well, I was gonna say baby steps, but it says before baby steps, before the baby can even take a step, baby, baby poops, and you just work your way into it. And you end up working your way into self discovery and you work your way into it. And you end up working your way into self-discovery and you work your way into growth and like whatever comes next is gonna be awesome. Not that you were asking for my advice.

Is it? Because every time we've talked about this before I was pregnant, you never said it was awesome. Well, but here's the thing. Here's the thing is like, okay, there's this podcast called the longest shortest time, which I think is just the best name for a parenting podcast you could have ever come up with. The thing is that I am, I am often very frustrated about like life as a parent,

but also I have an awesome life. And I think that's the thing that I'm trying to like reconcile. I like everything that I've built here. I have a great marriage and I do great work and I'm very proud of that work and that work keeps growing and it keeps making me more money and it keeps being more satisfying. And although I am often frustrated with parenting stuff, also I have great kids. they're great kids. And I can be annoyed at them. But also I spend time with them that I enjoy. And like, I guess that's just kind of life. Like, I think both are true. Both are true. Like, it's like all of it is true at the same time, I think is the answer. That's the reason

why I really hate the parenting talk. That is all oriented around how great everything is because it's not true. Like, like so many things can be true at the same time. I can be really frustrated by a lot of things and then also appreciate them. And I can say that like this is a pain in the ass, but also that like the outcome is awesome. Like all of it can be true. So it's more fun, frankly, to me and more cathartic to me when I have the sympathetic ear of a friend who can be like, yes, that sucks. It's more interesting to me to talk about the challenges of parenthood than to talk about the delights of parenthood.

Like I actually find talking about the delights of parenthood to be completely boring. I can never want to talk about it, but like that's not to say that they don't exist. You know, it's just like they're mixed in with all these other things. And I feel like I have to spend more time grappling with the hard stuff. Cause that's the, that's where my, those are the knots that I have to untie. Whereas the awesome, like the awesome stuff we take for granted something that somebody told me at some point, and I can't remember the context, but they told me is that just a remarkable thing that humans do is that we can return back to a normal state for ourselves. So if something is really exciting, it's exciting for a bit and then it kind of returns to whatever our normalness is. And if something's really sad,

it's sad for a bit and then we return back to normal. Like we just have a good ability to do that. And yes, things can throw that off and some things are like too traumatic and it's hard to get back to normal. But like generally speaking, that's what we do. And I find that true for myself in basically all circumstances.

If I'm really excited about something, it's great. But also like the excitement wears off pretty soon. And like even the worst things that have happened in my life, I have, I told myself, you will return to normal. Like I've seen it happen enough times that it will, it will come back to normal. And it always does. So when things are really high, I don't have to like grapple with them. It's not like, Oh, what is this highness? And what do I do with it? But like when, when, when I'm feeling frustrated, I do have to grapple with them. It's not like, oh, what is this highness and what do I do with it? But when I'm feeling frustrated, I do have to grapple with it because that's when I really want to return to normal. And that's, I guess, probably why I like, if I'm to self-assess myself here, I think that's why I end up talking a lot about parenting like that. But the end result is the same, which is like, you build your normal, and the

normal is the thing that matters. And like, in a way, that's kind of what we've been talking about here. This, this episode is like, what is normal? And then what is the like, what is the new version of normal that you will kind of establish and always be returning to? I mean, I don't know, I feel like most people talk about the negative stuff. I'm actually, I've struggled to find the positive stories. I now I'm in like the, you know, splash zone, I guess of birth. I really want to only consume positive birth stories, not, you know, the horror stories. But it tend, I just tend to see on social media or, or in mainstream media, you know, nobody likes hearing somebody

that's like, Yeah, I had a great birth. Like it was it was fine. It wasn't that bad. Oh, the actual act the actual activity. Yeah, we don't report stories about like the dog woke up and had a nice bowl of food and went to sleep. Yeah, like we report when the dog woke up and had a nice bowl of food and went to sleep. Yeah, like we report when the dog, something terrible happened to the dog. So, you know, most people have a totally good experience and then it's just not worth talking about because it was a totally normal experience. Yeah. And then the people that didn't hate on them too. And so, yeah,

who wants to share that? So, yeah, I mean, I'll tell you the call. The story with Colin was really funny. Colin being my my youngest, which was that we we went in. Jen went into labor and it was the day before my dad's birthday. And so the big question was, is Colin going to be born for or on my dad's birthday? And we were like waiting around and waiting around and waiting around and waiting around and like this baby is just not coming. And so at like 11 30 PM, the nurses do like a final check and they're like, yeah, this is going to be a tomorrow baby. And so they tell us to get

some shut eye because tomorrow will be a big day. And so we turned the lights off. Jen is in the birthing bed or whatever. And I go and like set up this terrible cot in the room. And we- Nobody's sad for you, Jason. No, nobody's sad for me. I'm not, I do not expect anyone to be sad for me. But for whatever it's worth, it was a terrible cot. And then we go like lights out.

And then truly like five minutes later, there's beeping. And then suddenly everyone's rushing into the room and they're like, this baby's coming out right now. And then he was out. It was craziest thing. And then we had a baby. On Roy's birthday? No, it was like it was like minutes before. No, like he said, we ended up being the day but it was the day before he was born the day before my dad like by minutes. But that was fine. It was a totally great experience except that. It really didn't want to sleep in that car. I don't know what you're inducing. This baby has got to come out because I got to get off of this cot.

Oh, Jason. So what am I doing for maternity leave? Well, what are you doing? What am I doing? Well, here's. Yeah. What are you doing? What am I? I don't know what I'm doing. Okay, well, you're... We're figuring it out. Right, so you're going to disappear... I'm just going to feel comfortable with the fact that there's not, like, a clear structure. Yes.

I think, like, shaming myself and being like, I must come up with, like, you know, and that should work and does work for a lot of people. And that's important advice to, like, create a clear boundary and create what the plan is and to create like here's the time that I'm going to be off and here's what to do and and I think I really you know I thought that I should try to do that because that's what I would tell other people to do but I don't have that and you know I think that's fine I just need to be okay with the fact that there no plan is the plan right now no clear club plan I love that that's fine. I just need to be okay with the fact that there no plan is the plan right now. No clear club plan. I love that. That's great. Well, okay. On that note, let's talk about the no plan is the plan for help wanted for a moment.

So you're going to disappear. Please, please do because I can't handle the guilt of broadcasting live from Syracuse. Yeah. I mean, Jesus, given how pregnant you are, there is like a at least 50% chance that you're going to go into labor while we're recording this episode. So you're going to disappear for some time and, you know, discover the plan and do whatever. And I am going to do the following. I'm going to be hosting a bunch of solo episodes. I'm going to bring in some guest co-hosts, which can't hold a candle to Nicole Lappin, but we'll try. And we're just going to stumble our way through it until you're back.

The seat remains warm and I'll miss you and I'm excited to have another co-host. Yeah, that's true. All right. You ready for it? No. I'm sorry, I can't breathe. happens here yeah that's true all right you ready for it no all right well before times end now and we'll see on the other side so this is however much a help wanted this is it this is BK help wanted and and after this will be will be a K. You're going to be a you're going to be a whole a whole say a whole other same person.

That's right. All right. Yeah. All right. BK out. All right. BK out. Money rehab is a production of Money News Network. I'm your host, Nicole Lapin. Money rehab's executive producer is Morgan Lavoie. Our researcher is Emily Holmes. Do you need some Money Rehab? And let's be honest, we all do. So email us your money questions, moneyrehab at moneynewsnetwork.com to potentially have your questions answered on the show or even have a one-on-one intervention

with me. And follow us on Instagram at MoneyNews and TikTok at MoneyNewsNetwork for exclusive video content. And lastly, thank you. No, seriously, thank you. Thank you for listening and for investing in yourself, which is the most important investment you can make. I love hosting on Airbnb. It's a great way to bring in some extra cash. But I totally get it that it might sound overwhelming to start or even too complicated if say you

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