Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin - How Your Money Trauma Becomes Your Kid's

Episode Date: September 23, 2026

My latest book, The Money School: The Complete Financial Education You Were Never Given, the financial curriculum that should have been taught in school but never was. From your first paycheck to investing, buying a home, building wealth, and planning your legacy, The Money School is the full course in plain English.  Go check it out: https://nicolelapin.com/money-school-book Dr. Shefali is the psychologist behind the conscious parenting movement -the idea that you can’t raise healthy kids without looking at your own crap first. Today she joins money rehab to teach us how to raise healthy kids mentally and financially. In this episode, you’ll learn the impact the idea that “good girls don’t talk about money” is having on our daughters the importance of how you talk about finances around your kid and how to make sure your kids are resilient with money ----------------------- MORE FROM NICOLE LAPIN 🎥 Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@MoneyRehabShow 📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/moneyrehab/ 📽️ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@nicolelapin 🌐 Nicole's website: https://nicolelapin.com OTHER THINGS WE DO 💳 SoFi: https://SoFi.com/MNN 💰 Private Wealth Collective: https://privatewealthcollective.com 🏦 The Money School: https://themoneyschool.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Money at the end of the day should be only a tool for freedom. And if it becomes an enslavement and it's your boss, you're using money the wrong way. Dr. Shepali is the psychologist behind the conscious parenting. movement. It's the idea that you can't raise healthy kids without looking at your own crap first. Today, she joins Money Rehab to teach us how to raise healthy kids both mentally and financially. The more from scarcity you come, the more we want to make them an Olympian. We want to make them Mozart. We want to make them ballet dancer. The more hold you are, the less you're going to give your kids. It comes from our lack inside. The best way to talk about finances around

your kid. I always try to tell parents that you want to find the yes. Instead of like, no, we can say yes, and come up with a plan and I'll help you get it. And how to make sure your kids are resilient with money. In terms of money, what do you think is the greatest act of love you can give the child? That money doesn't... And Nicole Lapton, the only financial expert you don't need a dictionary to understand. It's time for some money rehab. Dr. Shafali, welcome to money rehab.

Oh, I'm so happy to be here. I'm so happy to have you here because I do have to come clean that I bought only one parenting book while I was pregnant. It was yours. It was not like what to expect when you were expecting. You know, there was going to be weird stuff that happened to my body. I could deal with it. But what I was really focused on was how do I raise my daughter without some of the childhood trauma that I went through? So I grew up in a really chaotic upbringing and all I was scared about while I was pregnant and thinking about how to educate myself was how do I not pass that down onto my daughter. Wow. So thank you for helping me. I hope it helped. I hope it calmed you and I hope it gave

you some direction. It's not easy to do conscious parenting, you know, and it never, it never has a clear destination. It doesn't have a goal, you know, like, oh, now this means I'm a conscious parent. It's really the willingness to constantly show up and be courageous and humble and evolve. And look in the mirror and ask yourself, is this more about me or is this about them? And, That question is the grounding principle of conscious parenting and conscious living in every moment, in every relationship, to ask, to dare to ask, is this what's coming up about me or about us? You know, and that's so hard to do because we want to blame the other person, you know. But you have to look in the mirror. You have to look in the mirror.

So much of that really comes from your own story and your own self. So parental ego really resonated with me in that way, where you have to clean up your side of the street in all relationships, right? So the trauma piece, many people can understand, especially when they grow up in trauma. They know very clearly that this doesn't feel good and I don't want to pass it down. Okay. So we can come to that awareness. But you know where people find it really hard to decide to be conscious? The ones who don't have that much trauma, they're like, okay, I am conscious.

They don't believe that there's more to be done in terms of look at your belief systems anyway. Who said your belief systems around money, sexuality, race, religion, are right anyway. Just because you weren't traumatized doesn't mean you're still not so unconscious about what it means to get an A grade, what it means to look a certain way, what it means to be happy. So that level of deconstruction and piercing examination, people don't. want to do. The traumatized ones are the humble ones. They're like, I was traumatized. I don't want to pass it down. Can I look at myself? But the whole other range of the non-traumatized people who say they're not traumatized, they're like, we're good. Why should I look at anything? And why should I

upend any belief systems? But conscious parenting is not just about trauma. It's about looking at all your crap. And patterns. And patterns. I ended up going to Hoffman, too. So I learned a lot about my patterns and a lot of people there had to decide just because it's been done a certain way doesn't mean it's the way it needs to be done. It's that moment of thinking for yourself, how do I want to pass this on to my child? And when it comes to money, it's so deeply rooted. Money is a big one. You know, I want to be such a good mom. Like I there's that desire for it, but that's not enough because unconsciously I'm showing my money beliefs in everything I do when I buy something when I don't buy something the way I talk about money. So what's the best way to

pass on a healthy relationship with money to your kids? Before I give you a semi-good answer, because there's no perfect answer. I hope mine is semi-good. One has to understand that you are going to, all of parenting, you're going to toggle. You went too far this way, now you come back this way. Now you go back this way. So when I raised my daughter, I wanted to make sure I give her an abundance mindset, right? Like there's enough money in the world. and money doesn't matter and you have enough for what you need, maybe not for what you want.

I was clear about my philosophy. And I think I did maybe too good a job in my philosophy. So now my daughter is 23 and she'd be like, it's only 100 bucks. Or come on, mom, it's a tennis match at the U.S. Open and this one is spent, we've got to have an experience because I taught her money is for experiences.

So now everything's a great experience. So I did really good in that department and now I'm pulling the reins and going, okay, we got to save. It's not that abundant. It's not that abundant. Do you see it everywhere? So now I'm pulling a little bit. But she has a very healthy relationship with it, but almost too nonchalant, you know?

Now I need to create some scarcity. So now I'm tightening up. I'm like, a little anxiety is good, you know. But see, it's so hard because most parents raise their children with anxiety around money. And now how do you change to abundance? But I figured let me do really bad in the abundance department, and then I can always create. Anxiety is easy to create. You just stop giving money, right?

But it's harder to flip from anxiety to abundance. So how do you have those conversations? Because we've heard growing up these things like money doesn't grow on treats. That's what I mean. You know, it's never enough. That's not for people like us. That's for rich people. Money brings happiness.

Money doesn't bring happiness. I know. Well, as a parent, you have to really unearth your skeletons around money, man. There's so many. I mean, money is as up there as love or worth. I mean, money is right there. You know, it's right after love and worth or right before. It's so close because we need money.

So there's a form-based reality about money. It is real in the form-based world. Of course, money is an invention. We didn't have money till maybe thousands of years ago, where we bartered, we exchanged. Our communal tribal ancestors, you know, I went to visit the Hatsa tribe in Tanzania, which is one of the last hunter-gatherer tribes in the world. They have no money. They have no clothes. They have nothing.

So do they have problems? No money, no problems? I think no money, less problems. You know, everything is less. So less stress because you have less things to worry about. So they're not worried about their broken high heels because they don't have high heels. They're not worried about somebody stealing $100. They don't have money.

So imagine all that stress gone. Yeah, but then they have mosquito bites and they may have diarrhea and no toilet paper. So they have other issues, but I think way less issues. They talked about being happy. They didn't understand suicide. They didn't understand anxiety. They thought we were crazy to have crazy problems. But in this world, we are living here.

We're not with the Hudson. Money is a real thing. We've created it. It's invented, but we need it for now. So how do we have a healthy relationship with a form-based invention while understanding you don't need it for your identity? You don't need it for your worth, but you need it to live. It's such an amazing, hard thing to manage as a parent.

So I would say you have to get really clear. So my way of teaching parents to teach their kids is It's a form-based reality. We need it for the form-based world, and then we don't need it at all. So how much is that is dependent on each person? So I know in my life, I have nothing to worry about ever, ever, ever. I can choose to want to have more, but it's really only greed. Like I left the necessity part years ago. So what are we talking about?

And most of us have left the necessity part years ago. Now we're bullshitting to ourselves that we need it. No, most of us have enough till the day we die in terms of necessity, like bread, butter, a cup of tea, a shelter. Yeah. Now, how good the shelter? How good the manfred, is it posturapeutic? Is it seedy? Is it waterbed?

Now, that is not neat. See? So we rely to ourselves when we say, I need more money. No, do you really need more money? Or do you want more money? Or do you want more money? So if you can come to understand that in terms of need, we are all good. shouldn't our anxiety come down? It doesn't come down because we want. But it's the story that we've

told ourselves or what is so, so deep rooted in how we were raised with money. So we need to clean that up inside us. And then we can say, you're right. I don't need. Now I want. So now this is my ego. Now hummny shoes, humny coats, humny cars. And we have to do an honest assessment in the mirror. You know, I drive a 2012 Mercedes crappy, shitty cars, always falling apart. And all my friends say, you need a new car. And all the time I tell, no, I don't need one. I don't need one. They're like, but you should be embarrassed.

I go, who said? I should. Right? So conscious parenting or conscious living requires that you constantly deconstruct the difference between need and reality and want and ego. I mean, in a nutshell, that's what we're trying to do. I want my child to go to an Ivy League, right? You want it.

You don't need it. I want my kid to know how to swim. I mean, maybe swimming, you could say that could be a need because they could drown, but then how good a swimmer? Right? So after the need, then you're like, how much? Right? I need my kid to be on the basketball team. No, I want my kid to be on the basketball.

So then the parent gets... I want my kid to be number one on the basketball. about tea. But why? So I could brag to other. I want my kid to have a lot of friends. Oh, the other day a parent came to me and said, my kid was reading in her room and was quiet and lovely and reading. She's 12. And I, she and I got into a conflict. And I said, why? She said, because I told her, you need to go outside and get fresh air. And she said, no, I'm happy. So they had a huge fight. So I said, wait, wait, wait, wait. Maybe I didn't hear. Maybe she was doing drugs or something. And I didn't here or maybe she had been staying inside for 35 days and hadn't seen that maybe I mistook

something. So the parent was like, very funny, Dr. Chavalli. I know what you're going to tell me. She didn't need to go outside. I said, yes. Who invented that need? You did. So most parents are disguising need for once or love for control or care for, you know, hypermanagement and lying to themselves and lying to ourselves. Like now we've both written books, right? But we lie to ourselves and say, I need the book to do well, or I need the New York Times. We so don't need the New York Times.

We do not need the New York Times. And also it's a disease. It's like when I hit the New York Times bestseller list, we were in the car together. I got the phone call. And my first reaction was, oh my God, I cannot believe I'm number 10. What a loser. You see how you are?

Yes, that's how I was. I met Oprah. And until I met Oprah, I was like, just one time. Okay, one time. I met her as soon as the interview got over, I said, oh, I need one more time. Because I've blown this. I've done such a bad job. Just give me one more time.

At that end of that interview, I got another chance. And then I got another chance. You think it's enough? It's never enough because we're greedy, our ego. We all need more time with Oprah. See, that's legitimate. That's totally fair. We need it to live well.

Others, we can't have a good life. By the way, I tell her that all the time that you're number one on people's list. And guess what she says? Really? No. I go, seriously. Yes, she cannot believe. Even Oprah.

Even Oprah. Not that she's insecure. She's just so healthy. She doesn't think people are so crazy. to want her so badly. I tell her I write books only so I can come back. That's a great answer. But what it speaks to is that we have identified our worth with these things, you know,

and it's screwed up. And it's not fair that authors have to deal with this New York Times nonsense. So I tell all my friends now, I'm like, let's create our own. I shouldn't say this on the New York Times. We're like, really? You want your own? But it's an institution like marriage or like having a few children or beauty or the Ivy Leagues, right, or corporate career. So when we marry these institutions as if they are our identity, what we do is we become unconscious slaves to it.

We don't realize we are. And then when our children come along, we recruit them in the cults and don't believe we're doing anything wrong. Well, I grew up in an immigrant family, and I navigated all of the college applications by myself. And I got into Northwestern. Yeah. Great school. Yeah. My mother told her family back home that I went to Harvard.

Because that's that's all they knew. Back in Morocco. And, like, they didn't understand that Northwestern was the great school. Or she wasn't proud enough about that. I was like, Northwestern is the Harvard of the Midwest, but like it didn't translate. And I think there was so much ego around where your daughter goes or where your child goes. And why do we have ego? Reflected.

Back to you. Right. So why do we have ego, right? Why do my friends want to see me drive a better car? Like, obviously they have some feeling about it. They feel ashamed or they feel insecure. Right. My daughter's always telling me what to wear for interviews.

and I go, you need to feel good about yourself. Like, don't project it on me. So we do this because somewhere we feel shame, right? The not good enough, right? When you got the New York Times, you felt embarrassed being number 10. Can you imagine 10 out of millions of books? It wasn't good enough, was it? You wanted to be in the middle or the upper?

No, and then after that I was like, well, I got it once and that's enough. How many times do you need it, right? Like, you don't get tally marks on your gravestone. or your tombstone. But you get back into a cycle. And so the goalpost constantly moves midgame. What is that? How do you break that cycle? Well, you have to become aware and look yourself in the mirror and ask that tough question. You know, how much do you need? And why do you need this? And what does it say about you? And true liberation, and especially for us women, will come from saying no more. I'm done.

I'm done pretending that I need this and I need that. And I need one more compliment and I need one more man to tell me how amazing I am. And I need one more medal. I need one more child to do one more thing for me. So I can see at some point, I think it's after 60. I've heard. Because my friends, after 60, don't give a damn. I'm like, you have zero fucks?

And they're like, we have zero fuchs. I'm like, can you give half a fuck? She's like, I don't even have half a fuck left. And I'm like, I want to get there. She's like, you'll get there. You'll get so tired of yourself. I go, I hope I get tired of myself. I'm sick of myself.

Worried and agonizing. I'm tired. I'm tired of myself. I'm waiting to be sick of myself. Well, I think it's also just changing the definition constantly. Yeah. So we want it to have it all, but we don't decide what it all means. Yeah.

And we've gotten it all. We're done. Like the Hatsa women would look at us like we're crazy. Like you have so much, so many times over and over, are you never happy enough? You know, there are studies that show women today, the women who have chosen not to get married and not to have kids and they're having their career and they're miserable now. But then the ones who have the kid and have the husband and the career, they're miserable too. So when are we going to say to ourselves that we're not going to be defined anymore by what people think and what people say? Tell me.

Yeah, we just have to decide for ourselves. We have just realized that our whole lives we're waited, we're waiting. baited breath for that approval. And so we're doing the hair and the makeup, every day waiting for that approval. For the publisher's weekly big prize, your world's best mother, world's best woman, we're waiting.

And when we become real that we're actually doing all these things because we're waiting, then we can expose ourselves to our disease. Then we have to see ourselves with the disease. I mean, it's a disease. a disease. I say all the time, I have a disease. Something's wrong with me. I even said it earlier, like the New York Times thing was a complete disease, but it's an ambition disease. And it was fine because when that happened, I was single and, you know, my daughter was not even, you know,

anywhere in sight. Now I have a daughter who watches everything I do, everything. She's a baby. And I go, and she goes, yeah, she's stalking you. She is looking at you from the rear, you look in the rearview mirror at the back she sees everything and you are her world she's so smart yes and so I'm so nervous that the way I am especially about it's more than right it's the deep important things and the conversation is about money in the mirror and going oh just that or touching your cellulite and going oh or trying to go on the next diet or trying to get the next endorsement especially competent women you know because we can do a lot but Where is that line?

And society doesn't give us a healthy line. So my role in life, I think, is to give myself a line, to give my daughter a line, and to give other women a line. Like, enough. You've got, this is unhealthy now. Now you are sick. Now you are diseased. You know, I believe millionaires should have a line. There should be no billionaires.

I'm sorry. Because money at the end of the day should be, in my opinion. only a tool for freedom. And if it becomes an enslavement and it's your boss, you're using money the wrong way. So even though you can have 50 employees, do you want to have 50 employees? Even though you can have 60 million,

at what stage is it a psychopathological adaptation to your sickness? You're just running away. I mean, truly, I mean, after a certain number of millions, don't you think they should be aligned? I mean, it's a sickness. After a certain number of shoes, it's sick. I'm almost there. I'm almost there with the number of shoes. I look at myself, I go, you may be sick now.

But I'm worried about what that shows to my daughter. So when I'm sure at each stage of her life, it's going to be a different conversation, but maybe we can role play. Yes. So, you know, say, Mommy, I really want this new toy. $2,000 pair of shoes or raincoat. It could be any, a pair of toy. Sure. Well, she can't speak English yet. But when she does, yes, yes, mommy, what can I have this new thing? My friend has it. What do you say to that? You know, I always try to tell parents that you want to find the yes. And, okay, so instead of like, no or a yes without the end. So you want to find the yes and, okay?

Like an improv. Yeah. You have to always say yes. And so then you go, yes, I love what your friend has. That's amazing. And we can have it in 15 years. Let's start saving. Oh, okay.

So it's not and how are you going to work to get it? Or if she's off that age, we can say yes and. come up with a plan and I'll help you get it in six years, you know. Yes, and so there's, you're saying yes, you're joining her, you're validating her, you're not belittling her for wanting the diamond or the Bugatti or the cute boy or the cute car. I mean, we don't, we don't shame people for wanting things. This world is full of attraction, you know, it's okay, right? I want the cute shoe or the cute jeans.

It's okay to want. But we got to then ask the tough question, and do I need it? And can I have it later? And how do I work for it? The yes doesn't mean you have to indulge and be entitled. The yes is, I get you, I see you, I hear you. I do too. No problem. But it also doesn't have to be a no. Like, no, like you're so stupid or no, that's not for us. Why? Maybe it is for us. We don't know. We don't know. Let's wait and see. you know. Well, I like to reframe it too because I heard money doesn't grow on trees, which feels very scarce too. Instead, to reframe it, money grows where you invest it. Yeah. Yeah, I like that. There is an abundance capacity, but you also have to work for it as well. And you have to meet it. So what I, you have taught my daughter is money is everywhere, but you have to go meet it, right? You have to go find it. It's not going to just drop from the tree or from the heaven. You have to find it. And you have to

arrive at a place where you are worthy to keep it, grow it, save it, and keep it in your life. It's a big responsibility to have a lot of money. And you have an obligation to share, right? So it's find it, keep it, grow it, save it, share it. Yes, I love the save, share, spend. Yes. Three different buckets. Yes.

So how does this conversation differ for boys and girls? you have not now written one book, but two books, one raised unconscious sons and one raising conscious daughters. Why are these two conversations so different depending on the gender of the kid? Well, they're different for three reasons. Number one, boys and girls are different, hormonally, in their brain chemistry, in their neurobiology, whether we like it or not. There is tremendous overlap, and some boys are more this way and some girls, sure, but we can also honor differences and celebrate how freaking different they are. Okay. The second reason I wrote two books is because the algorithm treats them differently. The algorithm understands the boy's brain

chemistry is heavily dependent on testosterone and dopamine and the girls is heavily dependent on estrogen and oxytocin. And the third reason is because culture treats them differently. And we know so obviously how culture treats girls differently and treats boys different. And treats boys differently. So in terms of money, culture is always telling boys that they better make a lot of it. And their worth is tied to the cars they have, the house they have, the provisions, the protection they can provide in terms of money. And culture tells girls now that you can make your own money, which is great. But it's a trap for girls because culture also tells them that you need to be a great mom and you need to stay at home and you need to be there for your family. And you now need to make money. So how is a girl supposed to do

everything. I mean, she's only one person. So what is she supposed to do? Okay, so then she figures it out. She's like, I'll make all this money. Then I'll have a kid. Right. And that's a trap too, because it could be too late or she's exhausted. So she's like, don't worry, I'll freeze my eggs. So she's trying to like, like looking in my soul. That's you. Right. So now it's like, okay, now I better make money by a certain age and then I'm going to be a mom. And the poor girl is to do everything. And then the stay-at-home mom is like, I'm not making any money. So I'm just a loser. So she apologizes. I'm just a stay-at-home mom. You know, so many times mothers say that. And I go, why are you apologizing? Or the woman who's decided not to be a mother, she's like,

I'll never have kids. I'm like, okay, you don't know. She's like, no, I'll never have kids. I'm like, okay. You don't have to. Why are you so fierce? It's okay. She's like, no, I will never. Okay. There's something there. There's something there. Yeah. Like, how do you know you're never. Like you're only 30. Like maybe you'll have one at the, no, I'll never. Like she's so emphatic. And then the one who has, is 45 and she's not had the kid, she's like, you know, no, I don't regret it. I never think about it. I go, why, why is it such a big deal? Like, it's okay to be messy about it. It's always a never. Yeah, it's always a never. We can be super messy and regret it. It's okay to regret. Like, why do we have to be so sure about everything? Like, I'm constantly,

second-guessing myself. You know, many times I wanted to have three or four children, then I'm like, I'm so glad I didn't have three or four children. And I have one. I'm like, oh my God, so glad. But then many times I look at her and go, wow, you'd be a different kid if you had siblings. I'm constantly wondering, it's okay, you know. We don't have to be so sure about everything. I think we're afraid of regret. We're afraid to have made a mistake. But life should not be like that. I think we can totally say, my God, the last 10 years of my life have been a colossal mistake. But then this whole philosophy of like, there are no mistakes. And that's true too.

There are no mistakes at the end of the day. But it's also okay to have made mistakes. Like it's both and, right? In the way I teach, it's small mind, big mind constantly. There's a world of form where I'm like, oh my God, my nail polish sucks. I need new nail polish now. And it's okay if I have no legs at the end of the day. You know, I'm still alive, right?

You can have big mind and small mind. But it's the interplay of both, the form-based world where you care about your mascara and the formless world, which is who cares? Who cares? No one even will ever remember Dr. Shafali. Having both perspective is the way to live in this world. It's tough. It's a tough art. Unless you want to be a monk and give it all up, or unless you want to be an Elon Musk who wants to keep hoarding trillions. No, I think that balance is really important. Like I said, I went to Hoffman. I've gone to all. of these different retreats and I love like living in a self-help world and it's a bubble and I just want to like live in there forever and then you have to come to the real world. Yes.

Right? You can't live in that artificial manufactured utopia. Yeah, but then the real world is also artificial manufactured you. There's no escape. The only escape is knowing there's no escape. Pema Chowdrun wrote a book called The Wisdom of No Escape because you're not looking anywhere outside, the only true, true paradise or escape is here. So everything will bring you back here. Everything in your life will, if you are a human who has empathy, capability, a heart,

you know, so there's some who are in the world that have cut off from their heart. So the people ruling our world today are real examples of heartless. They've cut them, they're severed from the heart. There's such a thing. Is that part of why you wanted to raise conscious sons in this world of the bro culture, the technocrat, the oligarch, the toxic masculinity? That's exactly why. Because I was so tired of looking at these men going, what the hell is wrong with these men? They have no heart. Like, do you see, you know who I'm talking about? Those who are cut off from empathy, cut off from human connection. They're just not wired for that. They're, their brain is wired differently.

And they're taking us that way, but that's not the way of most of us. And that's why we need to rebel and fight back. And my book, Raising Conscious Sons is like, let's raise our sons differently now, because we cannot afford to let our sons go into that, into that manosphere, into that kind of thinking where everyone is objectified. Yeah, I mean, it scares the hell out of me. Like, if you want to get to the heart of any story, you follow the money trail, I believe. And so they're promoting toxic methods.

but they're also making so much money doing that. And so it's showing this culture, but also that you can make money that way. They are zombieifying your sons. Anyone watching, your son is a pawn in the masculine world, the toxic masculine world. They are zombieifying young men so that they can control them. You know, I think the way that young boys are talked to about money, too, is like from this power standpoint. And young girls also from this scarcity in my fourth book, Miss Independent.

We talked a lot about these studies that were done where it starts really, really early in our story about money as young boys or as young girls. I kind of think of it like farts. So young boys think farts are cool. And young girls are told that that's disgusting. And we all grow up with all these digestive problems. I love that. And so I think that when it comes to money, we also have much deep-rooted people. problems because we were told, oh, that's not. You have to be a good girl. And we don't talk about,

good girls don't talk about money like that. Yeah, I think there's tremendous power in teaching are girls especially about financial literacy and autonomy. But also we have to be careful that if we come too much from a scarcity mindset, that you have to, you have to make it on your own. We're actually in a way teaching her that the world is an unsafe place. And you can not be interdependent, right? That's the sadness of this whole thing, is that our desire to acquire money comes from our deep distrust of each other as a community, right? Look at up the mansions we all live in and high hedges and we each have our own washing machine, we each have our own car. Actually, all of this tremendous capitalism speaks to a deep paranoia of each other. We've lost

interdependence. That's where we each want our own banker car. Now, the husband wants his own The wife wants her own. The other day I was talking to a woman. She said, you know, in case I get a divorce 10 years from now, I have to start, you know, creating my own part of wealth. She felt so afraid of her husband 10 years. She's not going to get a divorce now because she has young kids, but she's saying, in case, she's sleeping with a man who she does not trust

and is paranoid about. Yeah, what am I don't know if I've said this on the show, but I actually regret naming that book Miss Independent because I think that there is that interdividendant. That's really, really important. So being codependent is not great, right? On one side of the spectrum and being completely independent, we do need other people. Right, right.

But I like your name. You know why? Because it's still independent. It's at least not the in, you know, and it's not this hyper independence. It's still got, you know, because I think women have also been so controlled by money. Men have controlled women by keeping the purse string. So we want her to have her hand on the purse string. but we also don't need to teach her to be so afraid to then let it go if she wants to have a family

or she needs help, right? We're also teaching women inadvertently that to ask for help is a weakness or to be vulnerable is to be embarrassed or ashamed. We're teaching her the same masculine message, hyper-masculine messages, so we have to be careful. So what's a better message? It's hard. You know, we want to teach her that she needs to know she's competent, but she's also capable of creating a community and having a family, and she doesn't need to be afraid of giving up for the other. It's a tough one for women. And so let's teach her to make her own money but not get obsessed with it.

Let's teach her to want to have a family, but also not to get obsessed with that. Let's try to teach her that her worth will come from her own knowing at the end of the day. So she has to decide. You know, maybe she'll let go of a few millions to have a family. Maybe she'll only have one kid, but she can have a career. She'll have to figure that out in today's confusing and chaotic world. How do you raise financially responsible, resilient, healthy kids, but also make sure that they're not entitled? And I think this is a big discussion amongst mother friends of mine who have seen their own childhood trauma too or who didn't come from anything.

Like I remember being told only flush the toilet when it's number two to save on water, right? Or close all the lights, turn off all the lights to save on electricity. And now I turn off all the lights. My husband's like, what are you doing? But for me, that feels like I've made it in that way. And also, I am struggling with the fact that my daughter is a Nepo baby? Like I have gotten to a place in my life on my own to a point of success that I'm able. able to provide for her in a way that I wasn't provided for. But how then do I kind of make her

struggle? Where is that grit that got me to where I am? Where is the balance between giving her enough, giving her what Warren Buffett said, enough so that she can do anything, but not so much that she will do nothing? Yeah. It's very hard. So the way I like to look at it is that because now we've already created this palace. You know, we're living in a palace. We fly in a jet, right? I mean, I'm not saying it's a private jet, but it's palatia. All our indulgences now are over the top, excessive. So given that, you live like this, right?

Now, within that, how can you not give her more? How can you allow for some friction? Right? You don't want to take away a beautiful home. You don't want to take away these beautiful things. So that's, you, you've earned it. You have a right for it. You want to fly first class? That's great. But how can you within that not keep adding? I went to a millionaire's home maybe two years ago. Not only was the house absolutely stunningly gorgeous, a swimming pool, jacuzzi, a hot tub, a boat in the background, a penthouse, a view.

Right? You got, it's already over the top. So I went to the kids' toy room, okay? I mean, the toy room had levels and layers and ladders and ladders and. And so that is ridiculous, right? So you can live in excess, but they don't need excess. They need what they need. So a four-year-old needs very little.

A seven-year-old needs just a little more. So how can you restrain them according to their development? And if you're so out of touch, go to a regular four-year-old's house and see what they have to get perspective. Because I think millionaires lose perspective of what is necessary. Yeah, so how do you structure it? so they stay motivated. Well, you have to give them only what's necessary. So do you believe that if you want to fly first class,

your kids should fly first class or should they go and coach? I think you've messed that one up, so let it go. Like, how is your kid going to go back there with a nanny? So you're going to go all the way back there with, you know, to look at them. It's, so that's what I mean. If the structure is five-star and high-class, go with that. But within the structure, don't add more. So in the first class seat, if the kid says, oh, we're going to Spain, I want to, sorry, I don't want to go to Spain, I want to go to Turkey.

No, we're going to Spain, right? Keep it as limited now within the crazy structure. Don't add more. So say you're giving your five-year-old a fantastic party with a bouncy house and you're doing a beautiful party, but then they say they want to have a visit by Snow White and the Seven Dooffs, right? Then you have to think to say, do they need, now, do they need that? Right? At what point do I draw a line? But if the parent is coming from acute scarcity, they will not draw a line. Listen to this. If they're coming from scarcity, they will not draw a line.

You understand? If they feel like it's not good enough or nothing I do is good enough or I want my daughter to have what I never had, they're coming from scarcity. The more from scarcity you come, the more you will give you a child in a weird way. see, you're giving all, you've created all this because of your scarcity. You didn't need all of it. You didn't need extra. You did it because of your scarcity. So the more scarce you are, the more you're going to give your kid.

And the more whole you are, the less you're going to give your kid. So I remember I gave my kid once a Domino's plastic cup for her birthday, right? Because she actually loved it, but she was never allowed to have it because we never went to Domino. So she was so always, I'd love to go to Domino's. Oh, Domino's pizza. So I got a Domino's pizza and the cup. And I gave her the empty cup to keep. And she loved it.

Now today, when I tell her that, she goes, that was so cruel of you, Mom. That was so mean of you. I said, no, for that age, that was enough. But because I felt whole inside myself, I didn't feel the need to give her a bracelet. I didn't feel the need to give her Snow White and the Seven Do Wharf. See, paradoxically, the more whole we are,

the more okay we are with our kids sitting doing nothing. The more empty we are, the more we want to make them an Olympian. We want to make them Mozart. We want to make them a ballet dancer. It comes from our lack inside. If we're okay sitting in tattered shorts, we're okay. See, our hunger for things, our hunger for status, a hunger for a lot of money comes from an emotional hunger,

not a physical hunger. So the difference between emotional hunger and physical hunger, we have to constantly examine that inside ourselves. I saw this beautiful video that you did with your daughter about how she teaches you. Right. And you teach her. But what's the lesson around money and your relationship with it that you've seen from her? Well, from all children, if you really look at young children especially, they don't need anything but you, food, shelter, clothing. Like, that's it.

They're happy playing with the dishes. They don't need the electronic gadget. They don't need you to buy a baby grand piano. In fact, do not ever make a stupid mistake like that until they're for sure a musician, right? It's our lack that makes us buy all these bubbles and gadgets. I promise you children are okay with sticks and stones. You were okay with sticks and stones. Oh, yeah.

I mean, she loves all the packaging of the box and not the thing inside the box. So can we keep it? it's simple. How simple can we keep it? And we have to, we have to discipline ourselves. That's the discipline. Like, even though you can, does that mean you do? You know, even though you can buy all that, does it mean you do it? And at every stage, my daughter's 23, every stage, even though I can buy her, the world, I'm asking, do I need to? Does she need to? The difference we need and want, you know, keep that in line. And what about the conversations that you have with others or your significant other, your partner, your husband, around money in front of the kids? How should you be mindful of that?

Well, I think if you and your husband or your partner are in conflict, you try to keep it out and go to therapy because money can tear a couple apart. Money can tear a couple apart. And you want to have some agreements around money. I mean, I've seen families fall up. part because of money. They steal from each other, they hide from each other, they lie to each other. I mean, money is like a lover. It's like an extra lover. Like, it's a big deal. They'll cheat with you with money and financial infidelity is a real thing. So you want to create safety. You want to honestly talk about our money belief systems and put that on the table ideally before you partner with someone. So can we rank some ways of parenting?

one through 10. Yes. Okay. Fafo parenting. Okay. So is 10 the worst? 10 is the best. Oh, 10 is the best.

So zero. Not Fafo parenting? You would fuck around and find out. I love Fafo parenting. You do? I think, I'll tell you, it's the way you say it. So how do you say it? So the way I interpret it.

No, say it. Say it. Like, do you say it? How do you say it? Fafo? Yeah, no. Fuck around and find out. Okay, so you say it like that, like fuck around and find out?

Or do you say, fuck around and find out. Like, it depends how you say it. Not in spite. I'm thinking people are saying it in spite. But it's like, okay, she's crying and she's screaming. She does want to put the jacket on. It's really cold outside.

Like, am I going to force her to put the jacket on? No, she's going to find out that it's really cold outside. Yeah. But you know you're not going to do. You're talking so big. You're not going to do any of FAFO parenting. You're just a total mush ball. What is she talking about?

I do call her mush. No, but one time, you're not going to be a FAFO parent. I don't. know if you're going to... You're going to carry the coat with you. Are you going to tell me I'm the worst parent because I can't wait to hear what you say. Okay. She bit me. Yeah. And I bit her back. You did? But in keeping... In Jess. And like, but I was like, this is... Yeah. You're doing this. Here's how this feels. But here's the missing piece, okay, in the Fafel. Am I the worst mother? No, you're not the worst mother. The... I remember my four-year-old told me, I hate you, and I was

like, I hate you too. I said that too. That means like FAFO, no? But it was not good. I'll tell you why it was an ideal, okay? Here's the thing in FAFO parenting. The kids really don't know what they're saying. They don't know. They're aping us and they're so clueless.

So your kid who's crying, I don't want to wear the coat, she doesn't know. And I know you think you're teaching her, but you're just teaching her like my mommy can be mean. And she should have carried a coat. She should have known that I wouldn't know. until 10 or 12, they're clueless. They don't know. So you help them. You help them.

Okay. I don't like FAPO parenting. I think it's, you know, they need help. They need skills. You can teach them like, I'm not going to carry the jacket or I'm, you know, and I don't want you to complain when they're seven or eight, but not when they're two or three. Right. So when they're two or three, you can say, I'm going to leave it in the car and then we're

going to have to walk back to the. the car, like something intermediate, right? You can't just leave them cold and have them shiver and go, well, I find out now. Like that, I think, I think kids genuinely don't have too much of a brain. So, and you think it's going to teach them, but the hole in their brain is still a hole in their brain. Like, they don't have a prefrontal cortex developed. So this is not developing the prefrontal cortex. Time and age develops the prefrontal cortex. Right? So you're thinking it's an act of defiance and this will teach you. The prefrontal cortex will still have holes. So this is not teaching you. This is just making me feel cold and

think you're mean, you know? They don't remember anything until four anyway, right? No, don't worry about. Okay, so we're good. Okay. Now this podcast will remind her. Okay. Gentle parenting. Gender parenting is a strategy, not a big deal. It's five or six. It doesn't need. mean anything. So if you scream at your kid one day, it doesn't mean now you're not a gentle parent. It's just a nice reminder to be kind. No harm in it. But I don't think you need to crucify yourself if you're unkind. But didn't we raise a bunch of snowflakes after that? That's why I think we went too far. You know, we have to do everything gently and speak

gently. I prefer, of course, conscious parenting, which is not about how you say it, but your whole internal frame. That's what matters. So I can say, oh, it's so good to share. Who cares? Like, what sense does that make? Because I said it nicely. But inside, if I'm truly not a sharer and I'm a truly a hoarder,

it doesn't matter how nicely I say something, right? It's about who I fundamentally am. Right. So conscious parenting is about who we are, not what we say necessarily. Okay. Giving an allowance for chores. Giving an allowance for chores. I think that's great.

Yeah, so what? Eight, nine? It's fine. Yeah, let them earn their allowance. I like that. But shouldn't you, everybody in the house? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You can do that too and you can give.

I mean, they both are okay. Like, not a big deal. I do believe that kids should participate and contribute basic stuff. But then when we make a long list of chores, you can teach them that that can earn them extra credit, right? They can earn something. But making the bed shouldn't get money. Cleaning up after yourself in the bathroom shouldn't get money. But mowing my lawn, that could get money.

But your things that you do to take care of yourself should be part of your participation and contribution in the house. But cleaning the bathroom, taking care of the younger siblings. That's not your necessary responsibility. I will teach you to do it as a job for me. Yeah, I don't get paid for making my bed. Yeah, you don't get paid for making my bed. Okay, conscious parenting. Oh, 10. 10 out of 10. I've never seen it not work because it's not a strategy. It's a life philosophy. It's a revolution. It's about the parental transformation. So how can it ever be wrong? It's always asking the parent, what crap are you bringing to the moment? What stuff are you bringing to the moment? So how can it ever be wrong?

We and all of our episodes, Dr. Sheffali, by asking all of our guests for a final tip that listeners can take straight to the bank. In terms of money, what do you think is the greatest act of love you can give a child? That money doesn't define you. Money doesn't make you worthier. Money doesn't come to the special or the unspecial or the good or the bad. Money is a currency. It's an instrument. It's a vehicle.

Use it as a means to be emotionally free. don't allow it to enslave you. It's a tool. Yeah. It's a mindset, you know.