Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin - Inside a Romance Scam Part 2: There Is Life After the Scam

Episode Date: June 18, 2023

Originally aired 6.21.22 With scams on the rise, it’s more important than ever to protect yourself— and to know how to recover financially if you do fall victim to a scam. In Money Rehab episodes 329 and 330, Nicole talks to Rebecca, who lost over $100,000 in a romance scam. Rebecca shares the mechanics of her scam, and the financial and emotional toll.  If you are involved in a romance scam, you can find help here: https://www.facebook.com/SHUisteamwork/  If you or someone you know is experiencing thoughts of suicide, you can find resources here: https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/ 

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Well, it doesn't. Charge for wasting our time. I will take a check. Like an old school check. You recognize her from anchoring on CNN, CNBC, and Bloomberg. The only financial expert you don't need a dictionary to understand. Nicole Lappin. Today we have the second part of our conversation with Rebecca,

a woman who lost $100,000 to a romance scammer she met on a dating site. If you haven't listened to the first part of the conversation, you should. It gets into the mechanics scammers use to target victims and pull off elaborate schemes and lies. And I do want to say before we start that both episodes involve stories of suicide. So please take care while listening. Today, Rebecca shares the rest of her story. And spoiler alert, it has a happy ending. A very, very dear, dear friend of mine, Elizabeth, it was she that came up with the idea of bankruptcy.

I don't know whether or not the idea of bankruptcy had ever entered my mind prior to that moment. I did have some resistance to it, you know, because bankruptcy has its own stigmas. But at that point, I had nothing left to lose. So that was the route I ended up taking. Wow. And you then started your recovery, both financially and emotionally. Yes. It sounds like. It's interesting. I'm in the support group now more as a counselor. And I'm not from a, like, I'm not a psychologist or anything. I just, I have this experience. So I know what it is to be in a deep, dark hole because of these people.

So I talk about, talk to other people who are still currently in their deep, dark hole to bring them along in their journey. I did not find Scam Haters United myself. I had opened up to my core group of friends, whom Elizabeth belongs to, who are family to me. And they were the ones that found Scam Haters United because they realized, which again, super, super smart of them, they didn't have the answers. They didn't know how to help me. They didn't pretend to have the answers or know how to help me. They sought out the resources, what limited resources there are to be able to do that. The scammers, they will continually, lifelong, try to reach out,

try to ensnare you in other scams. I remember when I was in my recovery, going through the bankruptcy process, I got a one-line email from Matthew that just said, where are you? And I remember having a very physical response to it because I was standing in the line of Starbucks because I decided that morning that I was going to treat myself to a Starbucks coffee. And I'm standing in line to get my coffee and I get that email. And I just remember my stomach just lurched, just like I had been kicked in my stomach. scorched, just like I had been kicked in my stomach. And I, you know, sort of, I doubled over slightly and just kind of shook my head and like I was, I was dazed for a second, you know,

and then fortunately my coffee was up. So they, you know, brought me back to the present, which was a good thing. But that's when I knew they will continually try to reach out. And that's when I, you know, I confirmed that with other victims that, yes, there is a file on you. You know, you will continue to battle this to some degree for the rest of your life. You will carry the scars. Like, there is life after scamming. I rebuilt completely from my scamming when I filed for bankruptcy, and I just was really diligent. I did try to report the crime, which is extremely, extremely difficult, which really it shouldn't be. such a widely underreported issue, a multifaceted issue. The reason why is there are no resources. There's nothing built for the point of view from the victim to feel comfortable to come forward. What was your experience like with law enforcement? I tried to report to my local police. They said I could do a police report, but that they couldn't really do anything, so there was no point. Because, you know, you're dealing in international law at this point, and non-extradition countries and such. I went to the main branch of the Boston FBI. I was turned away where they said, go fill out the

IC3, which is an online platform. And some things to understand about IC3. A, a victim who has been just scammed from the veil of the internet is not about to go report it through the veil of the internet with, you know, you're, you know, sending out your sensitive information somewhere else. You know, you don't know where that information's, your trust is gone. You are dealing with everything all at once because it is, in a very real sense, an emotional and financial rape that has happened to you. That is not a viable method of reporting. You know, what I needed to do was to talk to somebody. You know, you want my information to put in some depository somewhere to put, you know, the larger connections together to the larger webs of scammers? Here, go right ahead.

But I need you to understand what it was that happened to me. And the only way that's going to happen is through a conversation. The other thing is there's this misconception about IC3 that you are sending off your information to get your money back. That happens in extremely, extremely rare, rare cases. That happens in extremely, extremely rare, rare cases. What IC3 is, is that depository where victims put their information for the various agencies to put the connections together to get the larger fish. They are not doing it from the point of view of tracking down your money and helping you get your money back. So how likely is it that survivors of scams actually see any money back?

It's extremely, extremely rare. The only time it happens is, and it's usually a very small amount, is when it has to be immediate. And it's not usually through law enforcement. It's usually like, if I sent a wire transfer through my bank, and a couple hours later, want to renege on that wire transfer, they may or may not be able to intercept that wire transfer. And that is about the extent that you'll get back. And you didn't get any of it back? I got money back, but here again, it's not in the way that you expect. I didn't get many, I did not get any money back from the scammers. That did not happen. That will not happen.

What ended up happening for me is the Department of Justice and the FTC launched an investigation and won a case against Western Union and MoneyGram because they were complicit. And in some cases, actually encouraging scammers to use their services to be the conduit, you know, for the money to go back and forth. They were found liable. Western Union's payout has concluded. I was a claimant in that case. The MoneyGram case has concluded the payouts are, you know, currently being matched out. And we expect as claimants to have some kind of restitution, if you will, at some point this year. But it is a drop in the bucket compared to the losses. I lost about $100,000 over the course of the year from my scam. Basically, the process is if you have proof that you sent this money through this conduit during this period of time for this purpose, and you submit that documentation to them, they then will coincide with what records they have as far as the transactions. But just because you submit a certain amount of transactions to the case as a claimant

does not mean that you're going to be getting that money back, or at least that amount of money back. What it is, you know, MoneyGram, Western Union, they had to pay a certain amount of money, which goes to the DOJ, the FTC, to dole out among the victims. you were able to prove as a claimant and how much money there is times how many claimants actually file a claim to be a part of the case to get a piece of that pie so if i were to you know say i you know just was able to had documentation to prove ten10,000, you know, and I submit that documentation. Does not mean I will be getting $10,000 back. So it just means that I may, because, you know, there's no guarantees. I may get some of that money back, depending on how many other claimants there were that had valid claims.

So essentially, it's a class action lawsuit. Yes. And you have to figure out if you can be a claimant. Yes. Which is a really interesting point to tell other victims because, as you mentioned, during COVID, all of these scams are up. After the Tinder swindler, I'm sure you saw that. I did. It took me a bit because, you know, obviously, as you can imagine, it's a situation that hits close to home. I did not watch it when it first came out. I had friends that watched it when it first came out. And I ended up getting calls and emails and such, you know, because it made them cry and it made them understand my own situation all the more.

And I remember when I did finally sit down and watch it because I am very public about my story. And there's a number of reasons for that, you know, to show hope to survivors that there's life after scamming, to bring attention to the issues and to create a safe space so that, you know, if I have to be the first or one of the first to tell my story, to create a safe space, an environment where people can come forward and say, you know what, that happened to me, or I tell my story as a cautionary tale, you know, if I save one person, their antennas are up because I was out there telling my story

and it prevented them from falling for this scam or that scam. If I can save one person, it's worth it. But when I watched the Tinder swindler, that one instance where she was explaining how she was driving down the road and she's like, if I just turn the wheel a little bit to the left or to the right, I don't remember her exact phrasing of it. I had to stop. I had to pause. I got up from the couch. I poured myself

a stiff drink. I went out on my back porch and I just sat for 20 minutes drinking my drink and just recollecting myself because I understood on the most granular, detailed level exactly how she felt and where her mind was at because I was there. I, you know, I don't think people generally realize how close you can come and, you know, I'm here by a hair thin margin. You know, if, if Elizabeth hadn't handled the way, the thing, you know, everything the way she did, hadn't handled the way, the thing, you know, everything the way she did, I wouldn't be here. If there wasn't, you know, that moment, you know, call it divine intervention, whatever, where she shared that story out of nowhere, where I can identify with that story out of nowhere, story out of nowhere, I wouldn't be here right now. And, you know, I think about now in hindsight about the details that I couldn't think about then, about how the people that were closest to me would have all these questions that would never be answered, that they would blame themselves because maybe they could have done something

if they knew, and how could they not know? It's interesting, in the support group with Scam Haters United, occasionally we do get suicides. And there was one a couple weeks ago where a woman had committed suicide and her son was at her house, you know, trying to move forward in the logistics of what happens when something like that happens. You know, I can only imagine what was on his shoulders at the time. And, you know, it's only been a couple weeks, so probably still now, probably forever. And I'm sure he's got all those questions in the back of his mind when he was there her phone rang and it was the scammers and he started screaming down the phone yelling at them that they were murderers and they laughed at him oh my god that is how much they don't give a damn because for them you're a means to an end you you die they just move on to the next one my darling my sweet you know my queen

all these things that i thought were endearing initially are a mechanism because they will work many people at the same time and they don't want to take a chance screwing up names you mentioned your scammers plural do you know if there were more than one person involved i have a very strong belief that it was a group i mean there are there are outliers of scammers like the Tinder swindler, where you meet them in person, and it's more like a pyramid scheme where they're presenting themselves a certain way using funds from other victims to present themselves that way. victims to present themselves that way. I have a friend of mine, Benita Alexander, and she actually has a very well-known documentary about it. Her scammer was an in-person scam,

and it was one guy. But most often, 99.9% of the time, online scams are multiple people posing to be one person. My scammers are still operating. I know that I've actually met other victims' family members that were scammed by, I believe, the same people because there was a guy a while ago that had reached out to Scam Haters United because, you know, he, I'd been talking, you know, to people about my scam. And he was like, I think my mother-in-law is being scammed by the same people. And so, you know, there's all these dynamics that end up coming into play. And so, you know, he's like, what do I do? And I said, you know, I basically said, well, you know, she's in being manipulated in a narrative where the narrative is meant to shut other people out. as a victim of a scam. If somebody says to you, oh, you're being scammed,

you go back to your scammer. My so-and-so says that you're scamming me. Oh, honey, I could see how that's the case, but really that's not the case. What we have is real blah, blah, blah. Don't listen to them. Listen to me. So then what happens?

The victim gets further ensnared in the narrative because then they stop talking about it. To others. To others. Hold on to your wallets, boys and girls. Money Rehab will be right back. Now for some more Money Rehab. I think after the movie, you know, there's been a lot of interest in reporting on romance scams and you telling your story has also helped the awareness.

I noticed that in these interviews, they all end with the question of, you know, yada, yada, yada, how can you protect yourself from scammers? But that only is helpful for folks who haven't been targeted by scammers. You know, one point I don't think is getting addressed enough, and we've talked about it here, but I really want to drive the point home, is how can people who have already fallen victim of a romance scam recover financially and emotionally? And the fact that we're seeing this spike in romance scams means that there's a huge need that we need to be addressing this perspective more. So with all that being said, what advice would you give to victims who have fallen for a romance scam already? I think there's so much self-blame and self-shame that enters into it. And I think it's important

that this is something that happened to you. This is not something that has to define you. You were manipulated. You were targeted. Be kind to yourself. Take what you can from the situation, the lessons learned. You will forever carry the scars, but you do some live chats and, and things of that nature. And, um, somebody was like, I can't tell my friends and family that this happened to me. And I said to them, what they were afraid of was the judgment and the vitriol and and so and which is what a lot of victims and survivors are afraid of and I said you know they were under the

impression that nobody would understand and I was very upfront, look, not everybody is going to understand. That does not mean nobody's going to understand. And that essentially your stock may dip in some cases with some people, but your stock is going to go back up again. but your stock is going to go back up again. And that you've got to take, like for me in my journey, there were days where I felt like I couldn't get out of bed, but I got out of bed and I took that as a win and I celebrated that. And that's the thing in recovery. You're going to have your good days and your bad days, your good moments, your bad moments. I still do to this day. I think that is just generally how life is depending on how you look at it. And be kind to yourself. If all you can do today is get up and take a shower, get up and take that shower. That's a win. Celebrate that. Em Tomorrow, let's make the goalposts. You get up, you take a shower, you make yourself a nice breakfast, you know. Do the things that help you to keep going. I think that's really important. It's baby steps to the finish line, for sure.

It sounds like you've gotten there, though. You've recovered financially. It sounds like you have some good news on your house goal. Yes. This is awesome. Yes, I have a house. Yay! So, you know, after my scamming and when I had to do the whole bankruptcy, I thought the dream of a house, which was a lifelong dream, was to hell and gone, never to return. No, I have my house. I purchased it. I purchased it in 2020 and I am making it my own and I'm loving it. And, you know, another thing is I

I had always wanted to start traveling and see the world. My due diligence in my finances, My due diligence in my finances, my credit score is the best it's ever been, including pre-scan. Amazing. I just booked a trip to Scotland this morning. Okay. So I'm back to as close as I can be to where I was pre-scan, where I was the happiest I'd ever been. I am back at that point. You're back. Becca's back.

Becca's back. You know, taking my lessons with me. A, I will never do online dating again. No. If I'm ever going to meet somebody, it's got to be in-person, organic. You need references. Like through people that I know, you know, some mutual person, I feel like. But no, I have not dated since. I have no plans to date. You know, if somebody ends up in my sphere at some point, you know, under those circumstances where they're a mutual friend of a friend, you know, where they are an established person. Yeah, maybe.

But I will say this, that wonderful understanding of open heart, open mind, where, you know, they weren't going to have to wade through all the things. No, they're going to have to wade through all the things because I am not going to allow myself to fall into that trap again. And I think that brings up another excellent point, which is to love yourself enough to walk away. I would rather be wrong about the right person and have walked away just to keep myself safe than to not have walked away from the wrong person and find myself in some dark hole like I used to be in. We're not going back to that. We are not going back to that point.

No, ma'am. If someone is starting to feel like something fishy might be going on in their online relationship, is there anything that they can do to protect themselves? Should they ask for ID or verification or collect evidence? What should they do logistically? Honestly, there's so much manipulated paraphernalia out there. I know it sounds harsh and I know it sounds hard, but walk away. There's a lot to be said for instinct. There's a lot to be said for that

gut feeling. If you feel something isn't right, then it's not right for you. Whether or not it's legitimate doesn't really matter anymore. Something about it is not right for you. So, just cut ties and walk away. It's, you know, it's a defense mechanism. It's a safety mechanism that, you know, will basically cut off issues like this at the knees. For today's tip, you can take straight to the bank. If you've been involved in a romance scam, check out the links in the show notes to find resources on how to financially and emotionally get back on your feet. And remember, if you have been scammed, it is not your fault. You opened your heart and there is nothing shameful about that.

It is brave. You are brave. And just like Rebecca, you will get through this. In the meantime, sending you all my love. And if you ever need to talk, just reach out. MoneyRehab at NicoleLappin.com. love. And if you ever need to talk, just reach out. MoneyRehab at NicoleLappin.com. Money Rehab is a production of iHeartRadio. I'm your host, Nicole Lappin. Our producers are Morgan Lavoie and Mike Coscarelli. Executive producers are Nikki Etor and Will Pearson.

Our mascots are Penny and Mimsy. Huge thanks to OG Money Rehab team, Michelle Lanz for her development work, Catherine Law for her production and writing magic, and Brandon Dickert for his editing, engineering, and sound design. And as always, thanks to you for finally investing in yourself so that you can get it together and get it all.